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 麻煩有請法務部部長部長早部長早這些詐騙洗錢的重犯一個一個跑 整個社會都很憤怒特別是有特別的政治關係顏色對的金融重犯"},{"start":26.69,"end":50.981,"text":"之前跑了一個諸葛隆,後來跑了一個中文智,整個社會群情嘩然上一次我在這邊質詢部長的時候是問中文智所牽涉到的另外一件詐欺洗錢的案子新北地檢是不是還在睡,到底有沒有在辦結果沒想到在我們質詢的同時,他另外一個三省定院的案子竟然跑了"},{"start":51.735,"end":69.511,"text":"跑了以後這個風波啊非常非常的大因為我後來問司法院司法院讓他增加保證金取代科技設備監控為什麼找不到裁定結果搞了半天司法院當初的高等法院"},{"start":70.816,"end":93.253,"text":"根本沒有做裁定這件事情越來越嚴重跟司法院有關係的責任我明天追因為今天來的是行政廳的廳長副秘書長沒有來問行政廳的廳長對他不公平司法院的責任我明天一定追但我接下來要請教一下法務部這個是我問法務部說"},{"start":95.622,"end":101.378,"text":"針對解除電子監控這件事情我們的檢察官具體作為是什麼法務部說"},{"start":103.106,"end":124.539,"text":"在113年10月9號開庭的時候有表示 建請法院對被告實施電子監控也就是我們的檢察官當庭有表示反對 這個是客觀的事實我向來說話 有一說一那但是呢 增加保證經濟不延長電子監控的部分啊"},{"start":125.458,"end":143.358,"text":"高檢署沒有接獲高等法院送達相關裁定的紀錄這句話也是對的因為等到今年四月才補作裁定嘛那等到今年四月才補作裁定怎麼可能會啊 接獲通知但下面有一些具體的問題啊來 先請教一下部長"},{"start":145.834,"end":172.037,"text":"為了甩鍋高院為了甩鍋說我們那個時候做裁定以前有打電話去問檢察官問檢察官有沒有意見結果檢察官都說沒有意見前面甩鍋不成現在繼續試圖甩鍋部長有沒有去了解法官說他們有打電話去問問檢察官有沒有意見檢察官表示沒有意見這句話這個是真的還假的"},{"start":173.138,"end":193.083,"text":"跟委員報告,那這部分太高前有先要分那個調製案再了解那這個還要了解多久?這個我們會盡快來...拖多久啦?群情畫欄啦!當初誰接的電話,找來問一問不就知道了?這個需要這麼久?這事情發生到現在"},{"start":194.349,"end":214.995,"text":"然後部長您跟大家講的是高檢署現在成立調治案在調查要調查多久在調查半年調查一年調查到整個社會忘記這件事是嗎需要多久需要多久我們盡快盡快盡快是多久半年一年還是一個月給大家一個時間嘛全部都在講形容詞"},{"start":223.26,"end":241.683,"text":"現在高檢是在調捐贈嗎是所以需要多久這個還要再問訪詢那個沒關係你會後問高檢需要多久書面回覆給我可以嗎可以這是很嚴重喔為什麼很嚴重我進一步請教部長因為後來發現啊高等法院竟然抽換"},{"start":243.633,"end":259.032,"text":"電話查詢記錄表結果高院發聲明啦說沒有沒有我們是要按照後來比較正確的記憶再重新補作一份如果到時候查出來當初根本就沒有"},{"start":261.014,"end":285.359,"text":"當初根本就沒有說他們對電子監控的部分沒有意見那高院做這樣子的電話紀錄表這個是不是有公文書登載不實的問題來 請教部長各位報告 這部分是民眾有來告發了那現在北檢在分攤在正辦局快點辦啦 是大家看不下去了啦這個我們會盡快辦出來我們的高等法院跟高等檢察署誰說謊"},{"start":287.984,"end":311.106,"text":"有沒有公文書記載不死我老實跟部長報告啦不管是高院還是高檢署對台灣的司法公信力殺傷力都非常大啦兩個互踢皮球踢到最後一定要有人負責更離譜的事情是什麼更離譜的事情是說哇 發現事情大條囉趕快連電話紀錄都可以抽換喔"},{"start":314.127,"end":341.397,"text":"我們在辦案的時候啊 之前做過的紀錄啊可以用抽換的方式嗎 來請部長部長 您當過檢察官很有經驗啊您要不然就更正嘛 您更正才有紀錄怎麼會用抽換的呢部長您以前在當檢察官的時候有抽換過這種紀錄嗎我沒有碰過這種的情形對喔 我現在就問你嘛 作為法務部的大家長應該做這種抽換的事情嗎"},{"start":343.134,"end":347.954,"text":"可以這樣做嗎還是因為司法院的代表坐在下面你面露尷尬不敢回答"},{"start":350.663,"end":375.843,"text":"可以這樣做嗎這個是一個法律清楚的基準嘛就不應該這樣做嘛沒關係喔你說方案調查了我們繼續看下去但問題是啊高檢署回答問題啊其實也不是全部都真的為什麼他絕對不是今年4月才知道為什麼不是去年4月才知道去年12月16號在有關於限制出境出海"},{"start":376.977,"end":393.031,"text":"延長初季的裁定理由當中就已經寫了啊就已經寫了啊考驗的裁定裡面就跟你們講啊欸那個電子監控我已經解除了欸所以檢察官至少去年12月就知道了請問檢察官有什麼具體作為"},{"start":395.714,"end":424.694,"text":"這部分因為這個是12月16號的延長的裁定的確是有收到但是這裡面是已經他裡面是有序名裡面是說他已經解決所以我才說檢察官一定知道嘛那這部分因為我們這部分沒有申請因為這屬於那個審理中的一個電子監控的一個當然啦是因為審理中所以檢察官才有立場表達意見嘛我一般的市井小民看的再火大表達意見都沒有用嘛"},{"start":425.934,"end":451.76,"text":"司法院法院就講一個啊尊重審判獨立啊尊重法官啊而且他這個跟委員報告齁這個裁定是針對延長限制出境的並不是針對科控的這我知道我剛已經講過了嘛現在我要建立的事情只有檢察官早就知道了這件事最起碼12月就知道我現在的問題是知道了以後做了什麼事知道了以後一看雙手一攤很無奈因為沒有申請權嘛"},{"start":453.623,"end":475.136,"text":"對嘛大家現在在問的就這個事嘛如果檢察官也覺得不應該檢察官也覺得很憤怒怎麼最晚到12月知道的時候什麼行動都沒有採取大家在問的是這個事情啊我想我問題講得很明確啦沒有什麼太難理解的問題啊"},{"start":476.82,"end":500.933,"text":"因為最主要還是因為這不是一個科控的一個裁定所以我們也沒辦法表示意見沒有辦法表示意見 真的你確定這個沒辦法做一個法律上的一個不是啦 部長你以部長的高度講這個話全國的檢察官聽了會嚇一跳然後大家馬上鬆一口氣哇 原來這樣子部長都說我們檢察官沒有表達意見那以後通通都不要表達意見是這樣嗎對嘛 可以促請他有促請他嗎有嗎"},{"start":506.414,"end":530.947,"text":"大家都沒藥沒錢跟部長講得很好檢察官可以促請他問題是大家在問啊沒有啊不僅沒促請他來我們再往下看後來蔥文智啊到1月還跑去香港去了三天啊我看了這個裁定理由我看的是目瞪口呆啊他說為了要協助我國企業達成碳中和的目標"},{"start":532.448,"end":557.367,"text":"然後達成產業發展淨零排放的平衡所以他獲得了香港大灣區碳中和新區區市峰會然後特別找我們的金融重犯找我們的詐欺洗錢犯跑到香港這個碳中和的峰會來擔任主講人當初讓他去香港這件事情檢察官有沒有表示意見"},{"start":559.585,"end":586.59,"text":"因為這個不是針對那個科控的對我知道啊但是現在大家都在講啊他的逃亡路徑啊大家有沒有發現跟祝國樓很像都先去香港先去香港幹嘛去辦護照這個法官是沒有裁定這件事沒有裁定的部長你看一下好不好白紙黑字把高等法院的裁定都寫出來了這個證是沒有開庭的所以跟那個10月9號醫生10月9號所以檢察官有沒有表示意見"},{"start":588.49,"end":603.642,"text":"他是有做一個電話的一個記錄本案承辦檢察官表示沒有意見你有沒有看到裁定理由上面都有寫的本案檢察官表示沒有意見但是這個裁定因為他那時候裁定還沒有"},{"start":605.236,"end":630.828,"text":"沒有裁定理由就寫了嘛部長大家希望你展現的是一個破例啊不是在上面護航連基本的客觀事實都不對太難看了啦這個是跟委員報告這個我們這個還要再去做電話記錄我們還要再做一個查證我已經跟你講這是寫在高等法院的裁定理由針對允許他去香港這件事跟電子監控是兩碼子事啊"},{"start":631.628,"end":643.915,"text":"部長您聽我指詢要專心一點現在我們已經移到第三個問題了你腦袋還停留在第一個問題現在我的問題是准許他去香港這件事情路徑跟出國龍一模一樣"},{"start":645.342,"end":662.661,"text":"先去香港把逃亡的路線護照都辦一辦 再回來更好笑的是什麼更好笑的是我在想說香港哪一個天才團體會找台灣的詐欺洗錢犯去參加這個碳中和的高峰會議還擔任主講人"},{"start":664.98,"end":690.369,"text":"我追中文字的案子追那麼久我都不知道中文字對碳中和這麼有研究結果來看一下大灣區碳中和協會這個是在幫中國搞一帶一路的在幫中國搞一帶一路的有沒有開會 有開會有沒有演講嘉賓 有演講嘉賓結果我整個網站看完了以後我看不到中文字三個字我看不到"},{"start":692.622,"end":717.008,"text":"他不是說他去出席那邊聽取會議喔 採地理由來我再給部長看一次 擔任主講人 擔任speaker很厲害啊 讓世界看到台灣啊 到香港去啊讓幫中國搞一帶一路啊 看到台灣啊結果 完全沒有看到 那主講人的名單根本沒他"},{"start":718.243,"end":744.305,"text":"整個活動網頁裡面我試圖找出中文字三個字所有的主角列出來就是什麼就是沒有中文字今天司法院的代表有坐在這邊可能回去轉告副秘書長這題我明天問當初法官是閉著眼睛在做裁定嗎當初法官是閉著眼睛在做裁定嗎現在這件事情臭不可聞來最後我要呼應民進黨立委郭國文講的"},{"start":745.848,"end":763.844,"text":"所有跟中文字有關勾結的啊 徹查金流 部長贊不贊成這部分北檢已經立案再偵辦了 我想會全面來講立案再偵辦是立案再偵辦嘛現在大家齁 北檢立案再偵辦的案子太多了啦太多了啦 但是一堆案子都放在那邊睡啦"},{"start":764.881,"end":793.906,"text":"有特殊關係的案子就不會動啦我講話我負責啊下次質詢部長啊如果有興趣我一件一件點給你聽啊什麼叫做有特殊關係的辦了好幾年放在那邊還是睡啊現在是全面徹查喔不是只查特定的人喔全面徹查部長你就有一個部長的樣子展現一個態度啊說這個事情太可惡了法務部支持全面徹查會反映這個意見給台北地檢署部長可不可以這部分我想會總告給台北地檢署"},{"start":795.1,"end":821.109,"text":"那是我的意見啦我相信台北地檢署有聽到了現在我要的是你的立場全面測查 贊不贊成我們當然有證據到來我們就辦到哪裡部長社會已經大家已經看不下去了大家已經看不下去了我現在接下來等著看全面測查是查真的還是查假的不要等到半年以後我們在這個地方再問一次"},{"start":822.233,"end":835.675,"text":"你的問題還是 你的答案還是一樣檢察官依照證據有證據到哪裡就辦到哪裡 持續偵辦當中什麼時候會辦出來不知道會慢慢辦 繼續辦大家等著看好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":264,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時22分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請法務部部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["黃委員國昌：部長早。這些詐騙洗錢的重犯一個一個跑，整個社會都很憤怒，特別是有特別的政治關係、顏色對的金融重犯，之前跑了一個朱國榮，後來跑了一個鍾文智，整個社會群情譁然。上一次我在這邊質詢部長的時候是問，鍾文智所牽涉到的另外一件詐欺洗錢的案子，新北地檢是不是還在睡？到底有沒有在辦？結果沒想到在我們質詢的同時，他另外一個三審定讞的案子竟然跑了，跑了以後，這個風波非常、非常的大，因為我後來問司法院，高院裁定讓他增加保證金取代科技設備監控，為什麼找不到裁定？結果搞了半天，當初的高等法院根本就沒有作裁定，這件事情越來越嚴重。跟司法院有關係的責任，我明天追，因為今天來的是行政廳廳長，副秘書長沒有來，問行政廳廳長對他不公平，司法院的責任我明天一定追！","但我接下來要請教法務部，這個是我問法務部說，針對解除電子監控這件事情，我們檢察官的具體作為是什麼？法務部說，在113年10月9日開庭的時候有表示建請法院對被告實施電子監控，也就是我們的檢察官當庭有表示反對，這個是客觀的事實，我向來說話有一說一；但是增加保證金及不延長電子監控的部分，高檢署沒有接獲高等法院送達相關裁定的紀錄，這句話也是對的，因為等到今年4月才補作裁定，等到今年4月才補作裁定怎麼可能會接獲通知。下面有一些具體的問題先請教部長，高院為了甩鍋，說我們那個時候作裁定以前有打電話去問檢察官有沒有意見，結果檢察官都說沒有意見。前面甩鍋不成，現在繼續試圖甩鍋。部長有沒有去了解，法官說他們有打電話去問檢察官有沒有意見，檢察官表示沒有意見，這個是真的還假的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，關於這部分，臺高檢現在有分調字案在了解，這個還要再……"],["黃委員國昌：還要了解多久？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們會儘快來……"],["黃委員國昌：拖多久了？群情譁然啊！當初誰接的電話，找來問一問不就知道了，這個需要這麼久？這件事情發生到現在，然後部長跟大家講高檢署現在成立調字案在調查，要調查多久？再調查半年、調查一年，調查到整個社會忘記這件事，是嗎？需要多久？需要多久？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們儘快。"],["黃委員國昌：儘快是多久？半年、一年還是一個月？給大家一個時間嘛！全部都在講形容詞。"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在高檢是在調卷中。"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以需要多久？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個還要再訪詢相關的……"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，你會後問高檢需要多久，書面回復給我可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：這事很嚴重喔！為什麼很嚴重？我進一步請教部長，因為後來發現高等法院竟然抽換電話查詢紀錄表，結果高院發聲明說：沒有、沒有，我們是按照後來比較正確的記憶再重新補做一份。如果到時候查出來當初根本就沒有說他們對電子監控的部分沒有意見，高院做這樣子的電話紀錄表，請教部長這個是不是有公文書登載不實的問題？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這部分是民眾有來告發，現在北檢在分他案偵辦中。"],["黃委員國昌：快點辦啦，大家看不下去了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，這個我們會儘快來處理。"],["黃委員國昌：高等法院跟高等檢察署誰說謊？有沒有公文書記載不實？我老實跟部長報告，不管是高院還是高檢署，對臺灣的司法公信力殺傷力都非常大啦！兩個互踢皮球，踢到最後一定要有人負責。更離譜的事情是什麼？更離譜的事情是發現事情大條了，趕快抽換電話紀錄！在辦案時，之前做過的紀錄可以抽換嗎？請問部長，您當過檢察官，很有經驗，要不然就更正，畢竟更正才有紀錄，怎麼會抽換呢？部長，你以前在當檢察官時有抽換過這種紀錄嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有碰過這種情形。"],["黃委員國昌：對，所以我現在就問，作為法務部的大家長，應該做這種抽換的事情嗎？可以這樣做嗎？還是因為司法院代表坐在下面，你面露尷尬不敢回答？可以這樣做嗎？這是法律清楚的基準，也就是不應該這樣做！沒關係，既然你說分案調查了，我們就繼續看下去。問題是，高檢署回答問題時講的也不全部都是真的，為什麼？他絕對不是今年4月才知道！為什麼不是今年4月才知道？因為在去年12月16日有關限制出境、出海、延長出境的裁定理由當中就已經寫了，高院的裁定裡就講電子監控已經解除了，所以檢察官至少在去年12月就知道了。請問檢察官有什麼具體作為？"],["鄭部長銘謙：12月16日的延長裁定我們的確有收到，且裡面已經敘明解除……"],["黃委員國昌：所以我才說檢察官一定知道嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：不過這部分我們沒有聲請，因為這屬於審理中的電子監控……"],["黃委員國昌：當然，正因為在審理中，所以檢察官才有立場表達意見，我們一般的市井小民即使看得再火大，表達意見都沒有用！司法院、法院就說尊重審判獨立、尊重法官！"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，該裁定是針對延長限制出境，並不是針對科控，所以無法提出抗告……"],["黃委員國昌：我知道，我剛剛已經講過了。現在我要說的是檢察官早就知道這件事！最起碼12月就知道！所以我現在的問題是，知道以後做了什麼事？知道以後，一看、雙手一攤，很無奈……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為沒有聲請權！"],["黃委員國昌：對！現在大家在問的就是這件事！如果檢察官也覺得不應該，檢察官也覺得很憤怒，怎麼12月知道的時候卻什麼行動都沒有採取？大家問的是這件事。我想我問題講得很明確，沒有什麼太難理解的地方。"],["鄭部長銘謙：最主要在於這不是科控的裁定，所以我們沒有辦法表示意見。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有辦法表示意見？真的？你確定？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這沒辦法做法律上的救濟。"],["黃委員國昌：不是，部長，你以部長的高度講這種話，全國檢察官聽了會嚇一跳！然後大家會馬上鬆一口氣，原來是這樣子，部長都說我們檢察官沒有辦法表達意見，那以後通通都不要表達意見。"],["鄭部長銘謙：還是可以促請他再思考。"],["黃委員國昌：對，可以促請他！有促請他嗎？有嗎？大家都覺得事不關己！剛剛部長講得很好，檢察官可以促請他，問題是沒有啊！我們再往下看，不僅沒促請，後來鍾文智1月還跑去香港3天，我看了裁定理由看得目瞪口呆。他說為了協助我國企業達成碳中和的目標，達成產業發展與淨零排放的平衡，所以他獲得了香港大灣區碳中和新趨勢峰會邀請，還特別找我們的金融重犯、詐欺洗錢犯跑到香港的碳中和峰會擔任主講人。對於他去香港這件事情，檢察官有沒有表示意見？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為這不是針對科控的……"],["黃委員國昌：對，我知道……"],["鄭部長銘謙：他這個……"],["黃委員國昌：現在大家都在講他的逃亡路徑，有沒有發現跟朱國榮很像，都是先去香港？先去香港幹什麼？去辦護照！"],["鄭部長銘謙：法官對這件事沒有裁定。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，你看一下好不好，我白紙黑字把高等法院的裁定都寫出來了……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這件事沒有開庭，所以跟113年10月9日……"],["黃委員國昌：檢察官有沒有表示意見？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有做電話紀錄。"],["黃委員國昌：本案承辦檢察官表示沒有意見！你有沒有看到？裁定理由都寫了，本案檢察官表示沒有意見。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為那時候裁定還沒有……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，裁定理由就寫了！部長，大家希望你展現的是魄力，而不是護航，連基本的客觀事實都不對，太難看了，部長！"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這個電話紀錄我們還要再做查證。"],["黃委員國昌：我已經跟你講，這寫在高等法院的裁定理由中，而允許他去香港這件事跟電子監控是兩碼子事！部長，您聽我質詢要專心一點，現在我們已經移到第三個問題了，你腦袋還停留在第一個問題。現在我的問題是，准許他去香港這件事，路徑跟朱國榮一模一樣！先去香港把逃亡的路線、護照都辦一辦再回來，更好笑的是什麼？更好笑的是，香港哪一個天才團體會找臺灣的詐欺洗錢犯去參加碳中和高峰會議，還擔任主講人？我追鍾文智的案子追那麼久，我都不知道鍾文智對碳中和這麼有研究。來看一下，所謂的大灣區碳中和協會，根本就是在幫中國搞一帶一路！有沒有開會？有開會，有沒有演講嘉賓？有演講嘉賓，但我整個網站都看完了，看不到「鍾文智」三個字！我看不到！他不是說他去出席、去聽取會議？我再給部長看一次裁定理由是擔任主講人、擔任speaker，很厲害啊，讓世界看到臺灣啊！結果到香港去幫中國搞一帶一路，看到臺灣啊！結果完全沒有看到，主講人名單根本沒他！我試圖從活動網頁找出「鍾文智」三個字，所有的主講人都列出來，就是沒有鍾文智！今天司法院的代表坐在這邊，回去請轉告副秘書長，這題我明天會問，當初法官是閉著眼睛在作裁定嗎？現在這件事情臭不可聞！","最後我要呼應民進黨立委郭國文講的，所有跟鍾文智有勾結的都要徹查金流，部長贊不贊成？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分北檢已經立案在偵辦了，我想會全面來查。"],["黃委員國昌：立案在偵辦是立案在偵辦，現在北檢立案偵辦的案子太多了，但是一堆案子都放在那邊睡，有特殊關係的案子就不會動，我講話我負責，下次質詢時部長如果有興趣，我一件一件點給你聽，什麼叫做有特殊關係、辦了好幾年還是放在那邊睡！現在是全面徹查，不是只查特定的人，是全面徹查！部長就要有部長的樣子，要展現態度說：這件事情太可惡了，法務部支持全面徹查，會反映這個意見給臺北地檢署！部長，可不可以？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我會轉告給臺北地檢署。"],["黃委員國昌：那是我的意見……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，我會轉達。"],["黃委員國昌：我相信臺北地檢署有聽到了，現在我要的是你的立場，全面徹查，贊不贊成？"],["鄭部長銘謙：證據到哪裡我們就辦到哪裡。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，大家已經看不下去了！大家已經看不下去了！現在接下來我等著看全面徹查是查真的還是查假的，不要等到半年以後，我們在這個地方再問一次，你的答案還是一樣，檢察官依照證據，證據到哪裡就辦到哪裡，持續偵辦當中。至於什麼時候會辦出來？不知道！會慢慢辦，繼續辦，大家等著看。謝謝。"],["主席：下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-7","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","王義川","沈發惠","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","許宇甄","羅智強","張啓楷"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、數位發展部部長、教育\n部部長、大陸委員會主任委員、內政部移民署署長、國家安全局局長及國家人權委員會率所屬相\n關單位列席就「言論自由不在？界線誰說了算！國家介入特定政治言論之法律邊界」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143501_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}