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Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員羅美玲等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十三)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等22人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。【6月5日及6日兩天一次會】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:29:00 - 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人員署專門委員游祥偉、地質調查及礦業管理中心秘書許希傑、產業"},{"start":2155.605,"end":2177.1,"text":"五、產業延期管理及專門委員曾士傑、台灣電力公司專業總工程師鄭天德、中油股份公司組長王兆培、"},{"start":2181.52,"end":2205.416,"text":"財政部國庫署工股管理組副組長李新芬、國有財產署檢任計政周富成、交通部行政司檢任計政鄭鴻正、"},{"start":2212.753,"end":2240.472,"text":"農業部漁業署沿海海、沿海海漁業組組長劉胡生、紀事謝邦傑、水產事業所主任秘書曾正德、海洋漁業組副研究員袁國偉、"},{"start":2244.403,"end":2269.017,"text":"凌烈保育署保育管理組組科長陳志穎。有來吼。環境部水質保護師檢任基政邱國書。好。謝謝。法務部法治司副司長謝志敏。不好意思。"},{"start":2271.184,"end":2292.913,"text":"司法院行政侍送懲戒廳法官陳彥霖文化部文化資產及穀物移植組副組長洪義祥公安部資源規劃師財務資源處檢任基政副政期"},{"start":2302.701,"end":2325.353,"text":"原住民委員會發展處處長宋麗如土地管理處科長吳秉辰國家科學技術研究院自然科學永續研究發展處副處長陳曉琳"},{"start":2332.27,"end":2352.721,"text":"國家發展委員會社會發展處專門委員邱承旭行政院人事行政總處主編人事處專門委員曾永芳行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員邱碧珠"},{"start":2359.318,"end":2383.933,"text":"基金預算處專門委員戴琴芳好謝謝我們在列席以上官員來在浦東介紹我們的委員習宇貞委員鄭天才委員蘇巧慧委員黃潔委員好"},{"start":2402.137,"end":2417.346,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":2420.458,"end":2449.197,"text":"11屆第1會期第17次會議開始主條審查在進行主條討論前有關本日會議我們繼續審查海洋保育法之後需保留條文為求提高意識效力"},{"start":2450.908,"end":2474.814,"text":"其實海洋保育法能早在立法院完成三讀立法程序本席建議本會各委員是否同意本會會議討論海洋保育法草案請先就本委員會審查保留之條文進行討論如各位委員對其對"},{"start":2476.794,"end":2498.024,"text":"對其他通過之條文還有意見我們再回頭處理有意見之條文請各位委員代表有無意見有無異議好沒有那現在我們就進行討論海洋保育法草案保留第四條之條文"},{"start":2498.972,"end":2526.422,"text":"第一頁,修正動議有羅廷偉委員所決定,再排成第十頁。好,那我們第四條的修正動議,我們羅廷偉委員等在第十頁。好,沒來我們就不處理。好,那現在我們就..."},{"start":2528.635,"end":2554.235,"text":"第四條,看大家有沒有意見。好,針對第四條,大家有沒有意見。沒有。好,沒有。好,那我們就照行政院的行政院版。不好意思,第四條,之前有,對,加上就是說前向海洋保護區之整合規劃及執行由主管機關會同有關主管機關定職。我是有增加這個部分,第四條。就這個部分,對,有增加。"},{"start":2562.298,"end":2573.492,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":2582.885,"end":2607.453,"text":"跟委員報告就是針對委員提到前項海洋保護區之整合規劃及執行由主管機關會同有關主管機關定之那相關的海洋保護區細部的整合規劃執行其實在第二章的海洋保護區各條都有詳細的說明所以我們建議在第一章的總則就維持行政院的版本那有關委員關心的事項我們在第二章每條可以去做安排"},{"start":2611.866,"end":2633.591,"text":"上一次跟委員在說明的時候應該已經提過這一段。所以是指說後面的第二章的條文你們就可以申請這個部分來做?對,對,對,後面的海洋保護區就會有詳細的說明。包括有一些會是會同的方式在第二章第六跟第七條。好,那我們行政委員,那造行政院的版本通過有沒有意見?"},{"start":2634.909,"end":2662.268,"text":"OK啦齁好那我們第4條就照行政院的版本通過謝謝那我們接下來處理第6條好那我們接下來我們就處理第6條第6條有我們高津宿美昭委還有以貞習以貞委員的修正動議在第二月跟第14月來各位我們放開第二月跟第14月"},{"start":2669.65,"end":2688.115,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、"},{"start":2699.946,"end":2722.924,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":2725.231,"end":2732.386,"text":"對照表的第15頁本席的條文第6條我的第一項"},{"start":2736.57,"end":2755.992,"text":"我的第6條的第1、2、3應該是第三項。第三項有特別提到第一項整體海洋保護區管理政策方針應尊重、維護、保存傳統用海智慧等海洋文化資產"},{"start":2757.213,"end":2768.819,"text":"保障已傳承沿駐民族傳統用海文化及潛意,這是跟行政院版本不一樣的地方,請大家支持。"},{"start":2776.978,"end":2798.841,"text":"剛剛第一條徐委員提到有關於漁民的照顧的部分我們想為了一個維持整個一個國家的法治秩序所以基本上其實在後面針對萬一化設了保護區跟庇護區造成可能現在漁民的權益損失我們在後面的條文有關於相關的賠償條款那所以在這個地方是不是建議就維持行政院的版本"},{"start":2799.651,"end":2820.763,"text":"這個地方還有就是我還有修正動議就是要會同有關主管機關跟這個原住民的機關訂定職這個地方就已經有這個會同有關機關的部分的修正那在會同的部分就是第一句我念一下有關於中央主管機關應會同各中央目的事業主管這個部分我們可以接受調整"},{"start":2821.203,"end":2843.313,"text":"所以我再唸一遍就是我們會把它調整成中央主管機關應會同各中央目的事業主管機關去訂定以下所提到的海洋政策整個管理政策方針會同這個部分好"},{"start":2845.421,"end":2845.441,"text":"審訊委員"},{"start":2858.931,"end":2885.928,"text":"謝謝召委還有各位委員就是我想做一下總體架構的說明然後我們在主條譬如說為什麼第六條我們會認為可以改會同在上一次我們委員會審議的時候大概留下的保留條文總共分四大區塊第一個區塊就是到底會商跟會同牽涉的十個條文這個是第一大區塊"},{"start":2887.109,"end":2909.539,"text":"二大區塊是法則。法則當時我們當然有一些討論,但是最後法規會給我們的建議是說本與法秩序我們可能要注意階梯式的、漸進式的比例的問題、比例原則的考量。所以第二大區塊大概就是法則的部分。"},{"start":2910.179,"end":2938.899,"text":"審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會 審議會"},{"start":2938.999,"end":2962.403,"text":"法制序上第一個任何一個法律它都有目的事業主管機關那海保法的目的事業主管機關就是海委會那這個部分我們很希望能夠維持這個法制序為什麼因為這個法定位涉及的是權與責那因為我們有採用譬如說公民訴訟公民訴訟的時候它的主體"},{"start":2966.704,"end":2983.82,"text":"被告就是我們海委會海保署或海委會這樣子。那我們承擔的是公民訴訟的被告的法地位的時候,我們作為目的事業主管機關的這個法的這個地位跟角色我們就希望能夠維持。"},{"start":2984.801,"end":2999.26,"text":"但是在我們國家所有的法律體系裡面有一些法律確實是會才會同那我們瞭解這個法律的制定的基本秩序的時候會同的部分"},{"start":2999.901,"end":3013.803,"text":"就是涉及其他主管機關共同權責的部分會用會同但是屬於目的事業主管機關權責應該相符的部分我們很希望還是能夠接受我們會商"},{"start":3015.425,"end":3033.263,"text":"所以經過這十條會商與會同整體研析的結果我們有兩條我們認為涉及其他目的事業主管機關其他主管機關有重疊有共同的業務的部分有兩條"},{"start":3034.424,"end":3056.297,"text":"一條就是第六條另外一條就是19條比如說第六條它是保護區的總體的治理那各保護區它有各保護區的目的事業主管機關所以這一條涉及的全責就是有與其他主管機關相同的部分所以第六條為什麼剛剛我們副署長會說這一條我們可以採取會同"},{"start":3061.9,"end":3079.879,"text":"因為我們是涉及各保護機關相關的政策管理方針所以第6條是這樣那第19條我們等一下會討論就是它確實也有涉及其他主管機關的部分那剩下的8條裡面有2條是涉及原住民的部分"},{"start":3080.479,"end":3104.785,"text":"那涉及原住民的這兩條我們會以增列第九條那增列第九條來處理這兩條的時候就不必會同了因為它等於就是絕對的權利了甚至於比會同更強的絕對的權利了因為是遂行原住民基本法相關規定的程序那現在要討論就是說我們是放在哪裡"},{"start":3106.706,"end":3125.499,"text":"這兩條的會同我們改成原住民的諮商同意條款的時候是要放在哪裡?我們的版本當然是放在政令第九條,但是高級委員的版本是希望能夠放在總則的位置。這個可能就是我們等一下一起來討論這樣子。"},{"start":3127.72,"end":3148.939,"text":"有兩條我們涉及其他主管機關的權責所以第6條跟第19條徐委員有建議說要用會同的這個部分那蘇橋會委員也有建議到原住民要會同的這些部分那好多委員都有建議到會同的部分的話就第6跟第19我們覺得說這個我們也認為說這個確實是應該要來會同"},{"start":3154.083,"end":3181.873,"text":"二條是原住民處理,那剩下的六條我們真的非常懇切的希望說我們委員會能夠支持維持我們目的事業主管機關權責相符的這個基本的法律的結構,然後另外的這六條可能還是要請各位委員支持我們用會商,那這個部分我就先做一個大體的說明,那主條的時候再請我們副主委跟署長跟大家做說明,謝謝。"},{"start":3184.95,"end":3189.191,"text":"陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":3211.636,"end":3240.128,"text":"有資料嗎?所以這個部分的話我想說這個既然這個有兩個原則第一個就是一的就放在總則裡面總則裡面你們要放哪一條要怎麼寫這是要讓我們知道第二個就是說這個原住民的只要是看到這個會同這個部分只要在總則上裡面你們願意加入然後文字我這邊其實也有待會我們來討論一下"},{"start":3241.488,"end":3242.508,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":3262.379,"end":3281.472,"text":"剛才我們這個主委特別提到會同跟會商的不同確實是有很大的不同那因為這個法例涉及到不僅僅是原住民還包含廣大的移民"},{"start":3282.642,"end":3301.989,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案 案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案 條例草案 案"},{"start":3312.392,"end":3331.408,"text":"大家這個農業部關於漁業署的部分或是相關這些移民的潛意的部分提出了意見那延民會針對原住民署的潛意的部分提出了意見或是其他的部會提出了意見"},{"start":3336.027,"end":3348.801,"text":"海洋委員會不採納如果會上的話他可以不採納就照海洋委員會的所以會統就不是一定要大家要溝通啊溝通而且要會賢變成要會賢"},{"start":3352.52,"end":3371.922,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、詐欺犯罪草案案件、"},{"start":3375.929,"end":3400.389,"text":"行政單位說明跟委員說明其實剛剛主委已經針對會同跟會商的安排做一個說明那的確就如同剛剛徐委員、高清委員跟鄭委員提到的所以在第六條會涉及到各相關的目的事業主管機關所以在這一條我們會採用會同的方式那就是我們現在先呈現在螢幕上面的會同各中央目的事業主管機關"},{"start":3401.95,"end":3424.935,"text":"這一條我們會調整為會統,因為的確跟其他的剛提到的農業部或者是原民會等其他單位有關、機關有關係。那至於剛剛高金委員提到關於原住民權益的部分,我們安排之前跟委員這邊安排的條文,我們等一下是放在第9條會做說明,那同樣會...那...那是不是..."},{"start":3430.586,"end":3439.598,"text":"六條,剛才文字修訂,大家看螢幕好不好。大家看螢幕,看螢幕有沒有問題好不好。好,我們高興。"},{"start":3444.464,"end":3464.817,"text":"主席不好意思剛剛主委一直在講說因為我們現在馬上要進入到我到底要不要堅持就是會同在第6條裡面放剛剛主委講說因為我們現在只從第4條開始但是事實上我講的主委講的總則部分在4條以前所以那是5條第5條那第5條"},{"start":3467.438,"end":3476.103,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":3491.691,"end":3512.467,"text":"對,現在我們是討論第6條,第4條也通過了。主席,你堅持會同?我當然是堅持,但是主委剛剛就意思就講說,如果未來在非常多的條文裡面有會同的話,讓我是不是就不要堅持,我說如果在很多的條文裡面都是會同原民會,我們就在總則裡面就直接放。"},{"start":3513.248,"end":3540.777,"text":"但是現在如果是要從第四條、第五條、第六條開始的話,那我就非得要堅持這樣的文字了。好嗎?謝謝召委,謝謝。因為我們好像跟主委跟海保署的看法好像沒有一樣。好,那有我們再說明。不知道你第六條不是同意會同的。我們第六條已經接受委員的建議願意調整。"},{"start":3542.277,"end":3542.757,"text":"綜合委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":3567.286,"end":3581.995,"text":"第6條是不是還是總則的範圍?第二章了,對,第二章了,那個僑費委員已經是第二章了,所以我們就逼他不是總則了,他是必須在每個條文裡面都要了,所以跟主委剛剛講的是不太一樣,謝謝。"},{"start":3585.062,"end":3611.255,"text":"謝謝昭緯各位委員跟大會報告就是這樣高經委員所講的是要放在總則的部分是我們版本所提供的建議的增列第9條那增列第9條要處理的就包括蘇喬惠委員、高經委員、鄭天才委員處理的原住民的諮商同意權"},{"start":3612.555,"end":3633.84,"text":"我們是建議增列第9條的條文。高經委員在這幾日的討論之中,希望我們的增列第9條,就用增列第9條的內容,但是條文是放在總則。"},{"start":3635.816,"end":3664.576,"text":"那今天應該是可以討論這個課題我們也想請那個法務部門如果說體力上OK但是請高金委員是不是因為需要修正案高金委員的修正案好像是放在第五條那等於是第五條要回過頭來一輪來討論這樣子但是修正案沒有送出來所以我們才走程序的時候才沒走到那一個"},{"start":3666.229,"end":3669.79,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":3681.894,"end":3682.455,"text":"第五條,我們今天是從第四條開始。"},{"start":3698.382,"end":3713.927,"text":"第六條啦!對啊!這已經是第六條啦!所以我跟你們海保署講的是放在第五條裡面啊!所以已經不處理第五條啦!沒有!所以我們才會說要請委員趕快把修正案拿出來我們來討論這樣子!因為沒有修正案!"},{"start":3713.927,"end":3722.01,"text":"因為我已經才是說從第六條開始了嘛!所以我就從第六條啊!那你講的跟我辦公室談的不一樣啊!那請問一下!請問一下!"},{"start":3728.65,"end":3745.359,"text":"海保署署長你那天在嘛我們不是說在總則裡面要放嗎請你們回去那文字嘛你們的文字在哪裡總則裡面怎麼放文字就是增列第九條的文字那第九條已經是第二章了不是總則了是"},{"start":3745.759,"end":3748.8,"text":"總則與第二章是完全不一樣的回事,所以主委在這裡不要混淆視聽。如果你們沒有辦法在總則裡面拿出來的話,所謂的總則就是四條以前嘛。"},{"start":3762.566,"end":3779.422,"text":"第九條已經不是總結,那是第二章了。我們好像雞頭鴨講一樣,我們不要浪費太多時間了,我們就從第六條,同意第六條。我們就不要浪費時間了,我們就同意從第六條,然後他們沒有意見,我們第六條就放這樣的文字。"},{"start":3782.164,"end":3791.613,"text":"第六條說沒意見,但是主委說一下,看到底問題如何,大家理清一下,因為這個法要修好,也有意見的人,看要怎樣。"},{"start":3794.114,"end":3797.315,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃"},{"start":3814.322,"end":3834.249,"text":"當時我們認為說委員會的程序不是我們能做主,所以應該在今天委員會討論。就是說第五條當初通過,現在要不要回過頭來討論。好,那我們現在休息五分鐘,我們大家協調一下好不好。好,謝謝。"},{"start":3838.577,"end":3858.49,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":3860.026,"end":3860.046,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":3887.475,"end":3897.74,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十。"},{"start":3901.067,"end":3926.975,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":3933.558,"end":3949.892,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":3951.493,"end":3971.172,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":3972.213,"end":3993.761,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":3995.141,"end":4021.226,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯"},{"start":4022.126,"end":4042.561,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":4043.541,"end":4069.291,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":4071.333,"end":4085.991,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":4087.613,"end":4106.545,"text":"第四條是一條,第九條是他們想要的。有的重點是,如果他們願意的話,那麼就放在種族合體內。我們的種族則是第一條、第二條、第三條、第四條。這等是全都...第四條,第四條是一條。"},{"start":4115.31,"end":4115.891,"text":"審查委員會第1、2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":4145.11,"end":4145.13,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":4166.457,"end":4166.477,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、50、51、52、52、53、54、55、56、56、57、58、59、59、59、60、60、61、62、62、62、63、62、62、63、62、62、63、62、62、62、63、62、64、65、67、67、67、67、67、68、68、68、68、68、68、69、69、70、70、70、71、71、71、72、71、72、72、72、72、72、72、73、72、72、72"},{"start":4188.464,"end":4204.496,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":4204.616,"end":4215.96,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":4228.005,"end":4241.322,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":4244.906,"end":4260.464,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":4261.425,"end":4279.619,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":4287.897,"end":4287.917,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":4316.829,"end":4336.61,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":4340.634,"end":4363.604,"text":"第四條之一應該吧沒關係啦主委不管他是不是罪有不就是應該嘛沒有沒有就是應該應該要依照原住民法就是應該要依照有沒有什麼意見啊因依原住民族基本法以及海洋基本法的規定辦理上"},{"start":4366.145,"end":4384.276,"text":"大家都非常堅持,我台灣人也很堅持。大家都可以寫條,大家都堅持,我們都不要寫條而已。"},{"start":4393.061,"end":4417.074,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐"},{"start":4417.874,"end":4424.417,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案案案案案。"},{"start":4442.216,"end":4447.877,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":4454.931,"end":4477.808,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯�"},{"start":4478.669,"end":4493.65,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":4496.052,"end":4496.072,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":4524.873,"end":4542.545,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":4542.865,"end":4568.011,"text":"那依剛剛的協商的結果我們增訂第四條之一我們高津市美我們的召委那我們修正動議請各位委員看我們的螢幕螢幕的修訂那有沒有異議等一下我們就來做個決定好我們高津召委召委"},{"start":4573.892,"end":4588.881,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":4595.779,"end":4612.984,"text":"好那我們第四條之一齁針對齁的條文齁齁我們就暫定第四條之一啦齁那我們就照案通過喔好謝謝好那我們繼續來討論第六條"},{"start":4617.594,"end":4643.366,"text":"我們審議簽第6條還有沒有意見。第6條就是用會同了嘛。會同,對。好,那第6條就正面會同。好,那我們就修正通過了。文字是不是可以再我們再看一下。文字修正通過,第6條。沒有啦,主席先看一個啦。好。好好好。"},{"start":4646.22,"end":4663.509,"text":"六條就沒 剛剛都講好了沒沒問題啊你就趕快就拜託趕快通過啦好第六條我們就修正通過啦謝謝好來進行"},{"start":4669.14,"end":4682.308,"text":"七條有高津昭委、洪森翰委員、羅廷偉委員、徐以貞委員、蘇巧慧委員、黃潔委員共同修正動議。"},{"start":4688.032,"end":4709.092,"text":"好 因為其實我們都很支持這邊的審議會應該要放入原住民族跟漁民團體那我的建議是是不是還可以再加上保育團體就是如果說要這麼列舉的話就是都讓我們認為重要應該要參與的團體都名列在上面那這個是我的建議啦"},{"start":4715.345,"end":4734.852,"text":"主席、各位同仁那我當然我的條文版本裡面當然也是本來針對原住民有特別的提出啦那可是今天早上一方面是經過大家這樣幾次的審議一方面今天早上黃婕委員也有提出那我也是支持說如果要這樣的話那列舉那就照黃婕委員的版本乾脆要放的就多放幾個啊"},{"start":4736.473,"end":4736.773,"text":"王森漢委員"},{"start":4750.928,"end":4769.884,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、九、一、二、三、四、五、一、二、三、四、五、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、"},{"start":4778.692,"end":4784.253,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":4786.154,"end":4786.454,"text":"審判委員、協議中委員"},{"start":4809.511,"end":4809.731,"text":"鄭天才委員"},{"start":4831.016,"end":4849.4,"text":"非常謝謝這個就是這條這個是不是就把名列把那個移民還有原住民是不是把名訂在這個條裡面然後就是好謝謝然後另外就是針對就是海洋屁股去劃定之後就應該給於受損害的漁業人或漁業權人補償"},{"start":4852.041,"end":4870.176,"text":"相關的補償方法就是由中央主管機關會同有關機關還有原住民機關跟漁民團體之後定制這個部分我覺得也非常的重要因為劃定了這個海洋屁股區之後可能有些他必須離漁也許有些他必須就沒有辦法從事漁業的工作那這部分應該是要依據他實際受損的狀況給予補償這是我第七條"},{"start":4874.299,"end":4879.484,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":4890.891,"end":4915.039,"text":"好 這邊謝謝各位建議包括剛提到從保育團體、原住民、漁民跟相關的團體那整體來說因為在整個官方跟非官方比例上因為還有會作為中央主管機關要有一定的責任跟主導權特別是後面有涉及到公民訴訟的條款所以我們希望委員還是可以接受我們原本建議的二分之一是官方的代表"},{"start":4915.859,"end":4929.411,"text":"二分之一部分剛有考慮到可能很多利益相關人所以我們提出一個新的想法是說我們把他的決策權用三分之二決的方式變成說只要有三分之一的有三分之二的委員同意才能通過劃設"},{"start":4930.952,"end":4954.657,"text":"至於另外三分之一關於原住民、漁民代表之前跟委員談的時候我們提過說因為跟幾位委員談過我們目前的想法是針對原住民跟漁民的部分我們建議可以把它定在委員數的三分之一我們之前提到是民間團體剛剛蘇委員有提到說加保育團體的部分我想這塊我們可以開放大委員們來討論看委員們的決定"},{"start":4957.057,"end":4958.939,"text":"中央主管機關為辦理前項業務應設審議會由專家學者我們增列原住民、漁民團體等民間團體"},{"start":4974.258,"end":4988.466,"text":"那下面提到不具官方身份之代表人不得少於委員總人數二分之一那後面也針對之前許委員高紀委的建議我們把它調整成原住民及漁民團體之代表總人數不得少於委員之"},{"start":4989.866,"end":5006.094,"text":"總人數三分之一那我們再往下如果擔心說三分之一不夠的話其實我們增加了一項就是審議會之決議以委員過半數之出席出席委員超過三分之二同意行之所以要取得三分之二的絕對多數"},{"start":5007.355,"end":5034.98,"text":"那後面也提到剛剛徐委員提到關於補償的部分我們在這個地方增列了一項關於海洋庇護區域之核心區劃設至該區域之既有使用人遭受特別犧牲資損失者應予補償那這塊就會包括移民也包括其他可能的相關既有使用者那以上是目前我們初步的修正文字請委員參考主席在這裡修正文字的時候保育團體你沒放過"},{"start":5039.937,"end":5042.864,"text":"對,就這是我們在之前準備好的,那剛委員提到我們可以再往"},{"start":5043.829,"end":5054.796,"text":"黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員黃婉婉委員"},{"start":5071.647,"end":5074.836,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、七、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":5075.666,"end":5101.846,"text":"移民代表三分之一、原住民三分之一還是要有一個比例的合理比例啦我住民三分之一、移民三分之一、跟村民三分之一、要租管黨委、要保育團好,來,我們這樣齁,陸委員各位委員,我剛仔細看了一下海委會他這樣子,其實"},{"start":5103.942,"end":5121.88,"text":"每個委員都說要多少多少可是我覺得以他剛剛這樣寫如果會議那個審議會的決議要過半數然後三分之一就有否決權所以你的愚民你的什麼你根本不用到那麼多人你只要有三分之一你就有否決權了"},{"start":5123.001,"end":5143.44,"text":"那我真的是覺得說有否決權夠了啊不然齁你裡面啊漁民要三分之一像張偉碩的原住民要三分之一我覺得那這樣子代表性也怪怪的我是覺得應該是要看大家受損害的比例嘛我就剛剛講了說其實是漁民團體是佔最多的對我知道"},{"start":5143.66,"end":5153.4,"text":"那當然其他的團體我並不是說沒有而是說照這個比例來說我覺得應該是移民團體上最多我的意思是說徐委員如果以他們這樣你有三分之一了就有否決權了"},{"start":5155.384,"end":5155.944,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":5186.426,"end":5186.686,"text":"審查委員會長"},{"start":5203.009,"end":5228.287,"text":"其他民間團體的部分像我們目前的野生動物諮詢委員會也會邀請漁業相關專家所以我想剛剛委員最關心是漁民權益這塊漁業署那邊至少會有一票那剛提到專家的部分其實我們要漁業專家他們其實也會就漁民可能影響的經濟去做評估所以我相信到時候其實漁民不會只有在右邊的三分之一其實其他的部分還是會涵蓋到請我們主委"},{"start":5232.582,"end":5257.927,"text":"大會報告我們因為考慮到大家對於漁業還有對於原住民傳統海域的關心所以當時有提出一個建議的版本就是說我們原住民跟漁業的部分其實如果只要"},{"start":5258.643,"end":5274.151,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件, 其中一人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件, 其中一人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件, 其中一人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件, 其中一人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件,"},{"start":5275.774,"end":5300.426,"text":"所以我們希望就是說主管機關是因為政府是負責的單位我們把所有的法律案拿出來看全國就只有三十幾個法律在討論這種審議會的百分比其中只有一部法律是三分之二多數決"},{"start":5302.227,"end":5326.253,"text":"內部法律就是環境影響評估法。環境影響評估法規定非官方三分之二,只有唯一一部非官方三分之二是環境影響評估法。因為環境影響評估法是民間的力量在監督政府主導的開發案。"},{"start":5327.953,"end":5343.379,"text":"所以他用民間的代表三分之二是因為這個法律結構權責是因為這樣就是民間要去監督政府拿出來的開發案所以環境影響評估法是唯一那其他的"},{"start":5344.511,"end":5359.409,"text":"非官方的代表都是不得少於二分之一所以這一點我們很希望就是說我們維持這個法律的秩序權責在政府該負責的部分我們就用二分之一但是我們願意用三分之二多數決"},{"start":5360.811,"end":5367.454,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12屆第1會期內政委員會第12"},{"start":5387.302,"end":5407.561,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草"},{"start":5410.032,"end":5425.543,"text":"結構又完全不一樣,必須重新考量回到一般多數,不處理三分之二多數的部分。所以這個二分之一裡面漁民要佔多少比例,我想應該是我們討論的重點。現在設計的就是原住民、漁民團體,"},{"start":5434.442,"end":5440.11,"text":"總人數,我們是不得少於總人數的三分之一。其實加起來就已經有否決權了?"},{"start":5442.193,"end":5442.313,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":5472.673,"end":5485.963,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":5495.246,"end":5521.756,"text":"謝謝,謝謝我們主委的說明。好,我們請議政委員。對,我想剛剛主委有說過,大概他的目前的想法,那但是我想我們上次辦了六場公聽會,你們應該有充分的聽到,就是漁民跟漁業團體,他們的這個想法。他們還是覺得說,依照以往的經驗的話,因為可能這個,我們現在也不曉得審議會到底有多少人,三分之一的比例到底是多少。"},{"start":5522.296,"end":5542.93,"text":"那根據這樣的狀況來說的話變成說到時候他們事實上不見得能夠真正的去針對他們這個這個我們核心區的這個屁股區的畫社能夠表充分的表達意見那所以這部分的話為什麼說希望說漁民能夠占三分之一其實是因為他們就是一個這個受損害最嚴重的一個團體"},{"start":5543.931,"end":5570.901,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草"},{"start":5574.091,"end":5575.332,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":5591.272,"end":5610.682,"text":"所以假設我們去算的話在目前的我模擬的不同情況之下其實漁民都可以具有相對否決權的意思就剛提的主委已經很詳細的說明他的三分之一的比例搭配其他機關以及剛提到漁業單位跟原住民的官方代表實際上如果這個案子真的會影響到他們權益的話實際上他們具有否決權"},{"start":5613.664,"end":5619.587,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：立法院第11屆第1會期內政委會議長鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭楠麗 、鄭"},{"start":5642.45,"end":5665.215,"text":"好 謝謝我請教一下那個現在那個對我就要問這個就是你們那個審議委員會有沒有預計一個人數是多少因為你如果要把它算清楚說到底會有多少人然後實際上會議運行會長什麼樣子的話那是我們要先知道審議會的人數因為審議會的人數是30個人跟15個人跟11個人我想都會有一些落差"},{"start":5666.656,"end":5690.571,"text":"人數預計多少,先做個說明,大概在釐清的時候比較清楚,以上。好,謝謝我們牛先天委員。其實我們這個比例,像我們黃婕委員啊,她還是代表環保團體啊,環保團體她也要一定的名額啊,這真的我們行政單位真的也是有行政單位的難處啦。"},{"start":5691.994,"end":5720.592,"text":"好,那我們大家看那個字幕,我們大家看一下好不好。好,我們這邊跟昭偉海委員說明一下,我們模擬如果從15個人到31個人,最左邊那一欄,從15個人往下到31個人的話,官方代表二分之一,那中間看到我們把原名跟餘名三分之一特別列出來,就是如果是15人的話,原名跟餘名是三分之一,是五個人。那後面,整個表往後面看提到,"},{"start":5723.271,"end":5738.859,"text":"後面就有算到可以表決的人數跟同意人數的話實際上他的否決門檻我們就看15個人剛剛提到原民跟漁民是5個人否決門檻也是5個人所以換句話說他們就具有否決權那我們再往下看假設到31個人的話所以這邊看到如果是31個人的比例去算因為要超過三分之一達三分之一所以漁民跟原住民會是11個人"},{"start":5749.844,"end":5770.476,"text":"那再往右邊看那照這個比例看你要通過三二決的話基本上11個人可以有否決權其實我們有精算過照這個比例來看其實加起來都可以具有否決權那的確就是反過來看其實在中間專家保育團體加起來的人數大概最多就是5個人"},{"start":5780.895,"end":5802.476,"text":"其實是,其實是漁民跟原住民某種程度其實也具有相當的主導性,其實蠻高的,跟其他所有法律比較起來。那我想這個喔,這個部分既然大家都還目前沒有共識嘛,是不是可以先保留,好的?好嗎?好,那我們第七案就保留,好不好?第七條。好,謝謝。"},{"start":5809.598,"end":5809.939,"text":"審查委員長"},{"start":5832.042,"end":5843.058,"text":"好那我們現在就處理第8條第8條有修正動議有高精素美我們的召委還有吳立華委員習以貞委員好"},{"start":5848.38,"end":5873.741,"text":"第八條的部分也是針對有關我的修正動議是針對中央主管機關劃定海岸庇護區之後應會同有關機關及原住民機關及漁會然後後下下面的這個修正動議就是說刊登在政府公報新聞指全國性漁會的刊物網際網路及其他適當的方法廣泛周知好"},{"start":5876.18,"end":5879.488,"text":"來各位委員還有沒什麼意見好我們洪森漢委員"},{"start":5883.918,"end":5911.881,"text":"我有讀了徐真委員的條文我其實是想跟徐仁丹討論一件事情就坦白說我自己覺得我們自己在這裡面看到的狀況是說覺得對於漁民跟原住民族的權益我們一定要盡力的保障這沒有問題可是其實海上在海域裡面其實比漁民跟原住民族更強勢的我必須坦白說我認為是經濟部跟交通部"},{"start":5914.552,"end":5932.465,"text":"經濟部跟交通部包括航道包括等等等這些事情其實他們的甚至在海域上面是更強勢的我自己是覺得說可能居然在想的是說對於漁民的保障或者是什麼的"},{"start":5933.342,"end":5954.604,"text":"那但是如果對相關部會每個都一定要會同的時候其實反而更大的力量反而是這些經濟交通的部門反而是產生一個更大的力量的點這跟我們一開始想的只是單純去想說要保障漁民或者是原住民族反而"},{"start":5956.368,"end":5967.278,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":5980.19,"end":6000.255,"text":"我是覺得盡量是可以用會商讓他有權就是一方面讓海委會跟海保署有一個處理的權責他們要負責 重點他們要負責第二件事情是對於漁民跟原住民族有一個明確的保障但反倒不一定是把其他部會全部都很硬的綁進來這是我自己的建議啦好 謝謝 謝謝黃審判委員來 現在請我們行政單位來做回覆"},{"start":6010.613,"end":6029.724,"text":"委員報告,剛剛提到有關於匯商的部分,我們原本的條文是匯商有關機關。那因為基本上法律用於匯商,就是匯商相關的公部門,那就比較不會把漁會放在裡面。那特別剛剛黃委員也提到,其實我們在前面審議會跟蠻多條文都有照顧到漁民跟漁會的權益。"},{"start":6031.005,"end":6054.455,"text":"一方面漁會的意見也可以透過主管機關比如農業部漁業署去反映所以我們建議會商的部分就會商有關機關那後面提到關於公開計畫刊登於政府公報信用紙等等那這邊謝謝委員特別提出了把中華民國全國性的一個漁會刊物列進去那這被我們建議說因為它是特定的刊物"},{"start":6054.855,"end":6075.193,"text":"是不是我們可以用附帶決議的方式把這個刊物列進去那而後我們還是會不交辦理這個部分全國性的漁會刊物並沒有限定是哪個對全國性的漁會刊物並沒有限定說是哪一個哪一個刊物它就是全因為其實你就是希望能夠讓讓漁民都很了解對所以說是不是可以把這個部分其實我想這不是"},{"start":6076.474,"end":6102.628,"text":"只是多增加一個宣傳的管道而已啦這個部分我們可以去做沒有問題那我們建議說是把它放在一個是放在立法說明另外一個是可以用附帶決議都可以清楚的表達那如果直接放在這裡的話讓你們就多一個宣傳的這個刊物其實我想應該應該不是什麼這麼自愛難行的地方吧法務部對啊這樣是不是請法務部的同仁可以幫我們說明一下"},{"start":6111.237,"end":6115.003,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":6131.715,"end":6157.984,"text":"主席、各位委員、與會的各位先進。針對徐委員提議在當中偵測全國性與會刊物的部分,因為它的定義上其實是可以難光在目前列舉的所有項目裡頭,原則上不會特別來標出來,在立法體力上比較不會特別把它弄出來。就好像剛剛有緣住民權益的保護一樣,"},{"start":6161.117,"end":6188.203,"text":"難掛在裡面可以處理的我們就不會特別把它提出來那如果委員覺得特別重要我們在立法體力上有另外一種處理方式是把它定在立法理由裡面做說明或是剛剛有提到附帶決議的方式建議他們要把它偵測在裡頭那這個東西其實不會造成作業上的困難可是在整個立法體力上會比較簡潔一般的立法體力上如果已經含掛在這個概念裡頭的東西不太會特別挑出來定在裡頭"},{"start":6189.168,"end":6196.996,"text":"那對這邊對委員的這個用意至表佩服不在法治基礎上或許可以再考慮有沒有其他的替代方案以上說明"},{"start":6206.158,"end":6215.446,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":6229.591,"end":6249.245,"text":"我們這個部分基本上是用會商我的意思是說既然會商有關機關其實就會跟我們報告會商有關機關就會報告漁業單位跟漁業機關不是因為會商跟會同還是不一樣嘛所以我這邊當然希望說就是要會同對就是漁政機關我們這邊請漁政機關請漁業署的組長也說明這個部分好來業主那個"},{"start":6258.26,"end":6276.175,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位先進,有關漁業署這邊做一個報告,那有關這個會商、會同的部分,事實上會同的部分就是有一個這個權責的,等於說這漁業單位的這個權責的,有會同的部分等於涉及到其他單位的權責,那因為海洋庇護區的部分,因為主要是這一個"},{"start":6277.844,"end":6299.453,"text":"海委會所劃設的權責是屬於這個海委會的部分那如果說有會商這一個會同與證單位的話也會覺得這個權責上面會有一些的呃出現一些的競合的問題所以我們吼這邊還是建議吼海用會商的方式當然會商的部分他這個海委會在劃這個庇護區的時候或者降換企劃的時候一定會我們會跟真真"},{"start":6300.474,"end":6308.286,"text":"在詢問這個與會或漁民團體的意見之後我們會將意見提供給這個海委會那也會做一個強力的在一個計畫的討論當中將意見做一些表達以上"},{"start":6315.621,"end":6325.745,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":6331.167,"end":6339.709,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":6351.072,"end":6371.817,"text":"張宏祿委員我個人的看法是覺得如果用會同你把農業部變成深色其中了反而不好替漁民去講話因為你要化保育區但是我們的漁民是要去抓魚的這個是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":6372.757,"end":6388.426,"text":"所以如果這樣子會統那農業部是要會統去劃保育區還是他要提供他說反對我反對你劃保育區所以我會覺得說會統反而農業部不好處理事情"},{"start":6389.429,"end":6414.947,"text":"應該是說在化社保這個庇護區的時候,比較知道就能夠充分的了解漁民的需求啊。區委員不好意思,化社保育區的時候,那時候我們第6條就處理了,第6條就處理了會同,第6條我們都支持會同,在化社的那一部分,但是這第8條這個部分我會真的覺得會商會比會同好,因為農業部要有他的立場,"},{"start":6416.246,"end":6417.649,"text":"六條,大家的步驟都一樣。"},{"start":6429.041,"end":6447.587,"text":"因為在定計劃的時候就是相對的重要嘛對 我知道就在定計劃的時候其實就相對的要必須充分的了解嘛所以我們都會會商會商 會商既然第6條大家都可以用這個會同的話是不是這條也是一樣可以用會同的方式好 請出位"},{"start":6450.678,"end":6458.903,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":6469.41,"end":6481.563,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":6487.607,"end":6494.869,"text":"19條因為是談富裕跟放流有卡到漁業部門所以19條有卡到所以19條用會同除了這兩條以外原住民的部分兩條現在已經在第4至1處理了剩下的6條包括現在討論的這一條"},{"start":6508.453,"end":6508.573,"text":"委員會議委員會議員"},{"start":6524.087,"end":6537.857,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":6541.079,"end":6557.106,"text":"現在的四之一是處理原來的七跟八,就是除了這四條以外的那六條,必須按照法律的秩序,就是它沒有卡到白的機關,你如果去會堂,我舉例,制定這個保育計畫要開的會,不知道幾百個會,"},{"start":6565.232,"end":6572.567,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":6575.291,"end":6585.377,"text":"我現在說好我保育計劃今天要討論某一個主題,這個主題要來發會議通知或是要決定邀請的對象,要發會議通知,都要會同,我們要多個行政程序,真的沒辦法頂當,政府的機器沒辦法頂當,所以才有法治序,"},{"start":6604.088,"end":6614.156,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":6626.934,"end":6630.177,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員"},{"start":6651.482,"end":6667.616,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝我們主委我們席委員所以剛剛真的因為行政單位有行政單位的難處太多單位的話當然就會在執行上會有所以說我這邊就堅持說好那邊就是會與政單位就是這樣會與政單位"},{"start":6674.628,"end":6675.969,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":6697.585,"end":6725.406,"text":"第八條因為中央主管機關畫定海洋庇護期後要擬定海洋庇護期的保育計畫所以是針對這個保育計畫針對這個保育計畫所以這個海洋委員會其實不用太擔心"},{"start":6726.86,"end":6747.615,"text":"因為都是政府機關,這裏面已經沒有人民團體也沒有移民什麼,都是政府機關。幾個例子,你這個保育計劃基本上你就海洋委員會,你就要找這個農業部,也就是一夜暑,然後園民會。"},{"start":6749.264,"end":6760.809,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":6775.758,"end":6789.795,"text":"舉例下可能還有包含了哪些機關政府機關之間就好談啦其實是好談啦以上好 謝謝我們鄭天才委員我們各位委員還有什麼意見好 紅色藍委員"},{"start":6798.848,"end":6827.277,"text":"應該說過去其實在很多立法的體力裡面會同跟會商有一個差別一個會同的差別是說你這個部會有這個業務我這個部會也有很相近的業務因為你也跟這件事情你有這個業務我也有這個業務所以你對這件事情有責任我對這件事情有責任所以我們要會同那另外會商是你可能你的業務跟這事情有關聯所以我們不要再產生漢格"},{"start":6828.479,"end":6854.03,"text":"就不要你的工作計畫你在某些工作計畫裡面跟我的中國計畫產生政府跟政府行政上面的漢格所以用會商就不要漢格可是會同變成是那就變成是這個漁業署他也有海洋保育計畫的責任可是事實上在漁業署裡面並沒有這樣子他的法定的在他的法定的這個組織法裡面並沒有這個東西"},{"start":6857.029,"end":6872.424,"text":"問題是這件事情所以如果你也有你也有這個業務的目標的目標的話那大家應該來會同這是有道理的可是你其實沒有這個你只是你在執行業務的時候跟我會有關聯但不要產生漢格所以會用會商"},{"start":6874.758,"end":6894.676,"text":"其實在這個使用文字的體力上面大概有一個這個事情的區別所以如果是要把其他的給放進來會同的話除非是那些部會他也有海洋保育的法定權責可是你看他的法裡面並沒有啊主要是這件事情啦我們休息差不多"},{"start":6903.375,"end":6927.844,"text":"現在我們休息三分鐘由我們海洋委員會跟以貞大家溝通一下吧我補充一個就好就是說請委員們放心這種保育計畫其實我們行之多年滿成熟的沒有需要會同的問題那會商絕對沒問題譬如說我們的白海豚保育計畫就是"},{"start":6931.311,"end":6954.413,"text":"余業單位就是會商,我們一定會邀來一起討論,但是權責就是海委會。執行的結果,現在漁民都變成我們的好夥伴,一起投入白海豚的保育。常常漁民看到白海豚媽媽帶著白海豚的孩子,都覺得好幸運,今天又看到了。"},{"start":6955.054,"end":6962.976,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例"},{"start":6988.972,"end":7014.017,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":7032.671,"end":7043.344,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":7062.538,"end":7082.295,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、"},{"start":7087.398,"end":7101.832,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":7102.398,"end":7119.182,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":7133.477,"end":7157.497,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":7163.985,"end":7189.855,"text":"2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、47、48、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":7189.855,"end":7211.675,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":7216.049,"end":7232.904,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":7236.72,"end":7256.371,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":7258.133,"end":7273.406,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":7276.148,"end":7276.168,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":7297.397,"end":7297.417,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":7326.436,"end":7339.789,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":7350.157,"end":7355.701,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":7372.739,"end":7398.709,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":7409.445,"end":74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、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":8094.341,"end":8100.086,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":8101.523,"end":8127.711,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐"},{"start":8130.134,"end":8157.712,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、"},{"start":8160.213,"end":8180.347,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":8184.411,"end":8208.347,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":8208.387,"end":8238.194,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":8242.056,"end":8261.794,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":8277.419,"end":8299.908,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":8301.49,"end":8309.126,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":8330.657,"end":8352.955,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":8353.524,"end":8380.535,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":8384.974,"end":8406.246,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":8413.729,"end":8420.879,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、"},{"start":8440.47,"end":8458.796,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":8468.882,"end":8477.488,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":8483.558,"end":8509.086,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":8512.843,"end":8537.85,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":8544.246,"end":8566.013,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":8572.295,"end":8590.641,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":8592.725,"end":8621.331,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":8626.905,"end":8652.879,"text":"好,我們針對第8條。來,我們習以正、習委員。好,第8條,有沒有意見?那所以,剛剛講的是希望說這個部分是要用會商嗎?因為其實會商就可以達到相關的這個這個徵詢的一個意見了,然後來釘釘這個計劃嗎?OK好,那這部分的話,OK好。"},{"start":8655.265,"end":8678.432,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯"},{"start":8679.64,"end":8707.052,"text":"最後一項三詞了。好,那我們第8條就修正通過了。好,謝謝。好,現在進行第9條。我們第9條修正動議,我們高津召委。那召委已經不堅持了,那照行政院版通過。好,謝謝。"},{"start":8713.4,"end":8720.322,"text":"12條修正動議委員提出修正動議議員提出修正動議議員提出修正動議議員提出修正動議議員提出修正動議"},{"start":8738.191,"end":8767.27,"text":"白色,白色,白色這一本,第16頁。對,就是也是一樣,就是這一條的話是針對那個嘛,申請許可、作業費值跟希望能夠會同有關單位定職嘛,因為剛剛原住民的部分他們已經不堅持了嘛,對。對,那就是有關。那就照驗版。就照驗版嘛,就是。"},{"start":8769.032,"end":8780.898,"text":"審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請"},{"start":8799.386,"end":8810.349,"text":"第四月、第十六月、第二十三月、行政院判一百二十七月。"},{"start":8818.61,"end":8819.51,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":8841.937,"end":8856.95,"text":"第四項就是休閒採捕海洋生物其使用採捕方法、採捕物種、體長、數量、泛舟之限制、禁止或其他應遵循的部分。這個指的是說我們一些就是休閒的……第23頁對"},{"start":8859.472,"end":8882.791,"text":"這指的是說我們一些休閒的魚這個去釣魚的這些漁民他的這個他所捕獲的海洋生物要我們要對他採捕的方法物種體長數量跟販售的禁止因為有些現在有些休閒的他們自己來釣魚他們也是會去銷售而且可能針對一些還在保育的東西或者說數量跟一些他的這個大小"},{"start":8883.131,"end":8888.174,"text":"委員提到那條針對休閒、油氣、釣魚的管理,我們之前有考慮過,所以請委員看一下其實在第一個關於海洋、油氣或休閒活動之限制,我們這邊其實有提到油氣跟休閒。"},{"start":8908.846,"end":8937.243,"text":"那特別在第三條的與海洋使用財普器具之限制禁止或其他應遵行事項的我們就可以做到岡委員加的那一條那一項關於休閒財普海洋生物使用的方法、物種、體長、數量跟相關的限制禁止跟其他應遵行事項其實在第一項跟第三項都可以達到這個目的那有需要加強的話我們想提一個建議是不是我們可以在後面立法說明的部分把它寫得比較完整"},{"start":8937.743,"end":8957.2,"text":"因為這個部分你海洋遊氣跟休閒活動那可能是類似指的是波特船那種我現在講的這個第四點的話主要是針對這個釣客就是休閒釣客他因為他雖然他因為他沒受到規範嘛所以他有可能會去販售有可能會增加就是比如說他捕到的這個魚是其實是有"},{"start":8957.5,"end":8966.753,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":8977.028,"end":8998,"text":"跟委員在補充說明就像剛剛提到你提到休閒釣魚所以第一項我們特別把休閒兩個字擺進去就是想包括其實不光要釣魚還有各式各樣的休閒活動那第三項也提到采捕器具這采捕器具其實釣剛剛提到釣魚器具就是就是屬於一種采捕器具那目前我們在第一項跟第三項可以做到第四項"},{"start":8999.04,"end":9014.763,"text":"財普方法、財普物種、體長、數量、販售之禁止。 可以包括在限制禁止跟其他應遵行事項之內都可以。 所以你要那個嗎?你要把它增加到你的第三項嗎?"},{"start":9014.763,"end":9022.605,"text":"我們可以把它加在立法說明裡面,把這些放在立法說明。 那直接加上這條的話有什麼問題嗎?"},{"start":9022.605,"end":9027.206,"text":"其實跟目前的會稍微有點重複到。 那目前的條文其實可以達到這個目的。"},{"start":9027.923,"end":9033.817,"text":"應該就是把它比較說明得更清楚就是把它針對這個部分說明得更清楚"},{"start":9037.318,"end":9062.675,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我一開始看到這個許委員版本的時候我也覺得非常有道理因為確實時至今日這個第四項提到的事項真的是我們大家常常會見看到的也會使用到的不過現在聽這個我們行政機關說明後我確實是覺得可能會在原有的院版的第一項和第三項和現在許委員提的第四項確實是會有一點點"},{"start":9065.27,"end":9078.994,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查"},{"start":9093.339,"end":9109.492,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、"},{"start":9126.919,"end":9141.813,"text":"謝謝委員這個部分如果寫在條文裡面確實就跟第一項第三項等就重複了那如果說要寫在立法說明那現在草案的立法說明我們也認為說"},{"start":9143.755,"end":9161.953,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案 案件,並非立法說明的事項,所以我們就一起來改寫。」審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案 案件,並非立法說明的事項,所以我們就一起來改寫。」審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案 案件,並非立法說明的事項,所以我們就一起來改寫。」審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案 案件,並非立法說明的事項,"},{"start":9165.035,"end":9190.265,"text":"對,所以反而是寫出來,反而就變成現在是可以的喔,會有那個問題。我們現在是不可以販售,但實際上是有販售嗎?對不對?我知道的狀況是這樣啊,實際上是有。對,所以不必寫,我們都可以,不必寫出來,我們都可以去限制。根據第一款,我們也可以去限制。但是寫出來反而是讓現狀合法化。"},{"start":9191.63,"end":9195.995,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":9197.022,"end":9197.943,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人"},{"start":9228.906,"end":9247.145,"text":"對,我們可以在立法說明上寫,但是現在就是說是不是百分之百文字就有這兩個字的部分。是不是麻煩那個,謝、謝父。"},{"start":9258.47,"end":9259.411,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位先進法務部這邊針對法治上的意見來做一個說明"},{"start":9282.072,"end":9304.683,"text":"首先,其實在13條的一款裡面,它針對海洋游青學習活動的限制、禁止跟其他遵行事項,其實它的涵括範圍是夠大的。那徐委員剛剛提出的這個疑慮,我覺得這個疑慮很好,那對海洋保育也很有幫助,可是事實上以法治基礎上來講,不需要去動到一款就可以處理了。"},{"start":9306.504,"end":9330.883,"text":"如果委員覺得說有特語強調的必要的話或許在立法紀錄上的簡潔需要是不是有可能用什麼適當的形式呈現在這後面的立法說明裡面那另外因為如果把他放在販售之限制這樣的連用的話因為限制原則上是指說原則上是許可但例外的有些狀況我不准你這叫限制"},{"start":9331.443,"end":9353.573,"text":"所以如果文字的連用會造成所謂的販售之限制的話那其實好像會在立法目前好像是說其實立法者是同意是可以販售的只是有些例外那所以你建議怎麼做修改呢在立法的因為事實上委員您所擔心的東西其實在目前的一款跟三款的立法文字上以法制上來講是可以含設在這個文一設成範圍之內的"},{"start":9355.013,"end":9371.599,"text":"所以如果委員認為說還是不放心有要特別在強化說明的必要的話那可能是比較適合放在立法理由裡面去做細節的說明不用去動到文字也沒有關係因為委員擔心的狀況事實上可以依現行的文字去處理"},{"start":9372.347,"end":9395.746,"text":"我同意放在立法說明啦那只是說這個部分的文字是不是可以就是照著我這個版本這樣那至於剛剛講的販售之限制的部分的話那你有沒有建議用什麼樣的方式來呈現因為這是我剛剛提到食物的一個問題嘛這個牽涉到文字上的用法牽涉到委員以及海委會這邊想要追求的目的是什麼如果是當然有共識其實是要"},{"start":9396.727,"end":9417.902,"text":"禁止犯獸的話其實就不要用到犯獸的限制這樣的字眼這會有一個誤導你們為什麼都不能直接明確一點說呢為什麼都要照來照去大家可以審查速度加快一點嗎比如說那現在這邊的話就是這一條大家已經都同意了吧連徐委員都同意就是要放到立法理由那你也覺得是OK了那我們就朝這個方向進行那進行的狀況現在是犯獸的限制這幾個字有問題那是不是比如說我們就乾脆犯獸的限制這五個字就不要寫"},{"start":9423.166,"end":9433.752,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、"},{"start":9449.352,"end":9468.574,"text":"對嘛,那我們希望法治局上來就是可以直接進入到這一段嘛,就不要再講前面了。好,那如果這樣的話,那許委員你是否同意這樣,即使用裁補方式、遁號、裁補物種遁號、體長遁號、數量之限制遁號禁止或其他應遵循事項。"},{"start":9470.213,"end":9471.534,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":9488.008,"end":9516.229,"text":"這個部分就是說現狀有什麼缺失然後希望主管機關要善加管理因為現狀就是說漁民他一定要有條件有被允許因為是許可制嘛才可以採捕販售嘛但是其他有諸多的漁業行為卻反而不必嘛那現狀的這一些亂象或者是什麼要求主管機關在那個法律實施之後"},{"start":9517.409,"end":9541.464,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":9544.65,"end":9560.201,"text":"好的,那第四三條我們徐議政委員所提的在修正動議新訂第四款部分列入立法說明請海委會趕快審理送來本會還有附帶決議"},{"start":9566.988,"end":9567.008,"text":"請審議委員會議記錄"},{"start":9577.136,"end":9578.897,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":9603.141,"end":9610.266,"text":"審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查"},{"start":9636.997,"end":9664.978,"text":"好,第第14條我們是政委員要不要做補充說明。第14條的部分我是針對在調查機關、法人、團體或保育人員進行調查或實施各項保育措施應該客尊正當的法律程序以符合比例原則之方式為之。先加這個部分。好。"},{"start":9666.797,"end":9685.589,"text":"來,請我們行政單位說明。好,呃,跟單位報告。這邊提到,剛剛徐委員建議增加進行調查或實施各項保育措施,應可遵正當法律程序以符合比例原則之方式為之。這個部分,呃,我們可以接受。好,可以接受,啊。徐委員。"},{"start":9686.725,"end":9715.545,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件、詐欺犯罪案件"},{"start":9721.119,"end":9724.963,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案"},{"start":9742.42,"end":9755.791,"text":"現在進行第19條有高津委員做的修正動議還有徐宇珍委員修正動議在我們的第4月及第17月"},{"start":9769.833,"end":9773.938,"text":"十九條,徐議政委員,修正動議做說明。"},{"start":9780.403,"end":9801.299,"text":"主席19條的主委有說會同同意跟他在乎這個同意而已這樣會同就過了剛剛第19條說同意嘛用會同同意這條我們同意可以修正那原住民機關那個就不用了"},{"start":9805.435,"end":9808.076,"text":"審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查"},{"start":9821.671,"end":9829.896,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":9849.219,"end":9866.334,"text":"對,這條會同我們可以接受對,我們跟漁業署討論過我們可以接受然後納入漁會我們也可以這個跟那個第四條之一不一樣啊這個是"},{"start":9872.281,"end":9875.263,"text":"海洋生物復育措施"},{"start":9895.584,"end":9907.869,"text":"跟政委員補充報告,其實這一條涉及到後面相關罰則的部分,上次其實高清委員也有提案,就是有增加一段關於援助民主有需要的話基本上就可以同意。"},{"start":9915.387,"end":9934.014,"text":"我們上次有增加一個就是說如果是原住民基於傳統文化寄以生活所需之保育行為不在此限就上一次通過的條文上一次上一次講的啦上一次通過第24條上一次通過第24條上一次通過第24條"},{"start":9942.813,"end":9969.122,"text":"就是上一次通過的版本那那個版本的罰則是提到如果有一般民眾沒有經過許可去做復育放留的話會有罰則那上次已經增列了關於就是如果違反這項但是是因為原住民基於傳統文化、基於生活所需就不在此限、不會受到限制對啦這一條這是上一次通過的所以今天的資料沒有在裡面"},{"start":9972.85,"end":9998.242,"text":"原住民基於傳統文化這點行為會受損保育行為不再受限主席讓你猜拳啦這樣對我們原住民的權利都會非常有保障的那第19條先讓我們的文字修訂吧"},{"start":10007.787,"end":10028.116,"text":"第十九條就照修正通過。第十九條就照修正通過。第十九條就照修正通過。第十九條就照修正通過。第十九條就照修正通過。第十九條就照修正通過。"},{"start":10034.393,"end":10053.213,"text":"現在我們處理第20條有習以珍委員、楊瓊英委員還有黃潔委員提出的修正動議習以珍委員在第18月楊瓊英委員沒有到我們就不處理黃潔委員24月"},{"start":10058.137,"end":10083.713,"text":"因為原本院版的在犯的這個賀阻力他是版本是一年那我在想說是不是可以提高為三年讓他有一個更強力的賀阻力我的想法是這樣啦沒有啊就是三年內在犯就是讓他被受管制的時間更長的意思"},{"start":10088.14,"end":10088.4,"text":"二十條是罰則嗎?"},{"start":10103.861,"end":10118.592,"text":"我的部分的話大概就是希望能夠降低罰款到新台幣1萬元以上20萬元以下那漁業從業人如果誤入海洋庇護區的核心區且無重大違規請事經勸導使離後不予處罰請行政單位一併做回答"},{"start":10133.286,"end":10134.546,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":10157.894,"end":10180.73,"text":"入入進入核心區但經勸導後不離開的話才會進行處分那第三項就是增列到考量到他是不是累犯這件事情所以我們的文字是入入海洋庇護區之核心區且最近一年曾經勸導又再犯但增列這三項去避免可能有一些因為不清楚而導致誤入那罰則的部分我們有調降"},{"start":10193.004,"end":10197.846,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃"},{"start":10219.819,"end":10220.48,"text":"來 主席 主席 我覺得吼 你這個下線5萬"},{"start":10235.407,"end":10235.888,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":10255.358,"end":10279.629,"text":"對,因為這個部分就是針對就是一些,說實在比較容易被處罰到的,就是真的在海上從事捕魚的這些運營。好,我們松巧會回言。好,我剛剛看到行政單位是已經同意把這個我們的地板從10萬條降到5萬,但是天花板50還是維持。我倒是覺得這個方案是大家可以斟酌考慮一下的。為什麼呢?"},{"start":10281.67,"end":10281.89,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃"},{"start":10303.462,"end":10303.482,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":10329.39,"end":10346.079,"text":"懲截惡意的、重大的我們還是有個天花板50我覺得這樣是不是社會兩邊我們其實都可以做一個交代等於是我們把裁量的範圍擴大那我們也是希望那在這個到時候裁量的時候這種尤其我們現在又加了一個勿入的這種"},{"start":10348.24,"end":10353.785,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。 請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件。 請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件。"},{"start":10375.924,"end":10379.79,"text":"跟大會報告現在這裡面的文字"},{"start":10382.162,"end":10403.88,"text":"漏掉了那個誤入不罰所以結構上出了這個問題現在是譬如說第一款只要進入海洋庇護區的核心區就要罰了第二款突然跑出一個誤入因為我們沒有講誤入不罰所以突然跑出來一個誤入誤入勸導後不離開要罰"},{"start":10409.344,"end":10435.665,"text":"但是第一款是只要進入就罰啦對,所以這個文字有問題我們可能需要來改寫一下好不好我原來寫的就是那個嘛,就是雨夜重演人若誤入海洋庇護區的核心區且無重大違規,經勸導駛離者不處罰對啊對,那第三第三跟第一第三款跟第一款其實也等於"},{"start":10436.826,"end":10464.271,"text":"有規定沒規定因為誤入勸導後不離開就要罰了那他不管你是一年內第幾次依照第二款誤入勸導不離開就得罰然後第三款再去說一年內勸導又再犯也要罰那是罰兩個嗎不是啊只罰一個啊那只罰一個就是第二款已經罰啦所以這個是語意結構出問題啦我想我們技術上改寫一下我寫的這個修正動議來對啊"},{"start":10466.632,"end":10492.729,"text":"因為海洋又不是像道路一樣有劃線沒有劃線看不到線所以第一盤一定不要進入海洋屁股區之核心區水質跟一般道路不一樣一定是要誤入之後嵌倒才開始做處罰"},{"start":10496.362,"end":10520.672,"text":"好 謝謝等一下我們海洋委員會我們防潔的一年條升到三年這一點也要做補充報告那個就是第二款如果只留第二款的文字的話其實就是沒有違理啦海洋沒有違理還又犯的話就對啊就要罰的意思嘛所以其實如果只留第二款一跟三就不用了"},{"start":10522.29,"end":10549.816,"text":"反正就是有勸導的機會但是如果勸導你還是沒有離開就罰你就這樣一跟三我覺得就不用了應該是這個意思看要不要只留第二款是這樣嗎來各位針對我們防潔委員所提出的一至三連用什麼對啊因為說實在如果只有第二款來來來做說明第三款就也不用那個年限了基宇臻委員的提出的我們趕快做說明這樣喔"},{"start":10552.66,"end":10564.35,"text":"剛剛就是說有下列情形之一者處罰啦所以就文字上的結構是這樣的話就沒有問題我剛剛沒有看到這一句話那只要這三種之中任何一種就處罰嘛換句話說如果你是誤入不經勸導的要罰然後進入的"},{"start":10579.217,"end":10605.594,"text":"進入的要罰故意所以第一款是屬於故意的故意進來就要罰那第二款如果是誤入我們勸導不離開才罰那第三種是一年內曾經勸導又再犯那現在是黃委員要改成三年那這個部分我們尊重委員會的決議是"},{"start":10608.602,"end":10627.72,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":10632.282,"end":10633.504,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":10649.456,"end":10658.283,"text":"一般的遺傳沒有啦一般的遺傳沒有那個是沿洋一夜才有啦沿洋的遺傳才有一般的遺傳沒有啦"},{"start":10669.771,"end":10674.552,"text":"委員請委員會決定要幾年,然後文字的技術面我們來看。因為第一點就會讓人家覺得進入。"},{"start":10701.358,"end":10701.378,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":10722.823,"end":10743.256,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":10744.036,"end":10759.514,"text":"2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、42、43、44、45、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":10760.695,"end":10780.134,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":10781.775,"end":10798.139,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":10811.222,"end":10834.72,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草"},{"start":10851.351,"end":10863.319,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":10864.639,"end":10864.659,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":10885.272,"end":10912.97,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":10913.951,"end":10943.842,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":10946.664,"end":10966.167,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、"},{"start":10967.312,"end":10994.25,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":10997.807,"end":11002.944,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":11015.617,"end":11023.961,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":11029.224,"end":11050.635,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三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十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":11976.315,"end":12003.166,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":12009.901,"end":12023.735,"text":"二十條,我們現在打在螢幕上,大家看有沒有意見。以琛你看一下,因為罰款已經降低,上限都不變。"},{"start":12031.557,"end":12050.127,"text":"二十條我們就修正通過好不好好黃雪好啊宜貞宜貞委員OK啦好那我們二十條就照修正動力通過好謝謝好現在處理第21條我們高津昭偉"},{"start":12057.422,"end":12074.741,"text":"提修正動議還有徐宇珍委員提修正動議楊瓊瑛沒到我們就不處理好藍高津委員對第21條基本上我對這個政院版沒有意見但是希望後面有一個但書也就是說在海洋庇護區之內的這個緩衝區裡面"},{"start":12077.904,"end":12102.769,"text":"因原住民有時候有非常多的傳統文化尤其是阿美族花東那一代的族人他的記憶所需要利用的行為應該不在此範圍之內好不好就加了這個文字那先說明一下因為我剛剛去講說尤其是阿美族的族人在花東最多他們都會有海洋記憶或者是我們的達烏族有時候他在緩衝區裡面我們講說緩衝區已經蠻近的他會採捕一些"},{"start":12106.71,"end":12118.24,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":12131.852,"end":12134.473,"text":"徐宇貞委員徐宇貞委員徐宇貞委員徐宇貞委員"},{"start":12160.673,"end":12187.988,"text":"還有我們高金召委所提出的原住民的家族文字在裡面。他增加的單書。應該沒有問題啦,因為我們通過的第24條也是經過我的修正版本嘛,第26條也是基於原住民的傳統介於文化是不罰的。好,我們召委,這樣OK啦。好,我們協議政委員,OK啦。"},{"start":12189.517,"end":12193.885,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":12206.372,"end":12227.002,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":12231.012,"end":12231.973,"text":"二十二條修正動議委員提出修正動議。"},{"start":12250.794,"end":12251.814,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":12279.834,"end":12285.757,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":12308.679,"end":12326.414,"text":"這部分也是罰還的部分那請問那個海委會這邊有修正後的版本嗎這條因為涉及規避妨礙相關的調查跟觀測所以我們建議還是維持院版的2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還謝謝"},{"start":12329.458,"end":12338.584,"text":"主席,我認為今天這個划款,我們都可以提供移民,但一定要考慮移民、考慮法治、法律,根本沒有一個前提的作用,是不是我們今天所討論的要保育海洋的必要性?"},{"start":12359.571,"end":12380.703,"text":"我認為自台灣到現在,今天在想這個法案,我們是要保護海洋的。結果長久以來,破海,我們也受到其他委員的審扣。不過,你如果這樣意見的時候,沒有一個前提,我們說實在,想這個法,也不知道想什麼,我都看不到。真的要台灣好就好了。以上。"},{"start":12390.766,"end":12392.848,"text":"二、三條就照行政院版本通過,好不好?謝謝。"},{"start":12411.834,"end":12426.762,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":12432.648,"end":12449.316,"text":"委員楊瓊英、委員羅廷瑋等提案第34條、委員羅美玲、委員張瑞雄等提案第29條、台灣民眾黨黨團提案第35條及委員賴瑞龍提案第28條、委員吳祺銘提案第29條"},{"start":12461.528,"end":12469.371,"text":"我們這就不予採納大家有沒有意見好沒意見我們就不予採納好謝謝來我們修正動議第29條我們習以貞委員大家放開19頁"},{"start":12485.382,"end":12510.821,"text":"我的宣傳動議是希望這個本法施行細則要由中央主管機關會同有關機關及原住民機關定職。好,謝謝。那我們先在單位做說明。我們在剛剛的條已經說明到會同跟會商的差異。那因為基本上本法的中央主管機關是海委會。所以我們建議維持院版就是本法施行細則由中央主管機關定職即可。"},{"start":12512.553,"end":12512.934,"text":"財政局局長"},{"start":12533.68,"end":12550.147,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、詐欺犯罪案案件、"},{"start":12570.705,"end":12588.026,"text":"主席還有各位委員各位先進針對委員提案要修正29條的部分以法制的角度我們來說明如下其實適應細則它是針對母法本身比較細節性、執行性的東西再去定的"},{"start":12588.649,"end":12612.587,"text":"那這個細則要出來之後,後面才能夠推展,所以其實行能效能上是蠻重要的,而且這是一部有主管機關的法規,除非他的整部法律裡面有很大的部分是跟其他機關高度關聯、高度重疊,核心業務彼此有衝突、重疊的狀況,才會定成是由會同來定定,這是一個比較例外的做法。"},{"start":12613.223,"end":12633.093,"text":"那其實剛剛一路聽下來其實在我們的這個討論之下其實這邊也做了很多條文的修正其實在後面我看相關的授權的法規命令還有實質的法規命令以及一些審議會的組成事實上好像都已經有很多會同的規定那是不是在這邊要做會同我覺得是可以在"},{"start":12633.906,"end":12651.252,"text":"思考的齁,可以再思考的齁,因為這是一個特別的立法的體力齁,有這種立法體力可是這種立法體力只有存在在兩個機關或多個機關的核心業務,在這部法律裡面高度有高度重疊的狀況才會來這樣來做一個制定齁,那以上跟委員報告。好,謝謝我們法務部副市長。好,我們席委員,我們法務部副市長的解釋,"},{"start":12664.412,"end":12664.672,"text":"第七條"},{"start":12690.5,"end":12693.341,"text":"我們請同仁秀一下剛剛第7條的建議修正條文。"},{"start":12714.776,"end":12737.56,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":12743.836,"end":12748.871,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":12763.752,"end":12784.154,"text":"來,我們針對第七條,我們主管單位,好,那我看我們主管單位,再跟他們做溝通,我們休息三分鐘好不好,針對第七條,這唯一的保留條文對我們第七條,那拜託了,"},{"start":12787.466,"en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十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":13321.544,"end":13347.17,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":13350.706,"end":13378.754,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":13381.189,"end":13394.902,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":13395.749,"end":13424.141,"text":"那我講一下好了好 謝謝主席那我們現在開始開會的過程我也跟大家報告一下然後留下一個紀錄謝謝剛剛徐委員徐維珍委員還有黃婕委員高金素美委員那我們大家都一起討論了出來包括在場所有牛委員張委員等等大家共同的意思是說那是不是因為其實今天每個人甚至每個委員甚至每個團體都是希望能夠對海洋保育盡一份心力"},{"start":13424.921,"end":13445.091,"text":"所以大家是共同努力的那剛剛的那個條文徐委員就不堅持願意用大家一起討論出來這個版本再看一次看看是不是可以這樣過但我們要求要做成一個附帶決議就是說把剛剛的精神是大家不管是原住民也好討論很多的原住民團體漁民團體保育團體等等"},{"start":13449.873,"end":13475.921,"text":"都是海洋保育的重要成員大家都齊心保育海洋資源所以為我們目前的法規是定這些人的代表是佔審議會的至少三分之一但這當然希望是不只這樣未來主管機關在甄選代表的時候尤其甚至專家學者等等在盡可能的空間之內都盡量的提高"},{"start":13476.561,"end":13487.269,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":13502.268,"end":13527.499,"text":"目前這邊呈現的是目前我們的建議修正條文。那附帶決議的部分我們現在同仁正在操你。好。那第7條我們就照大家的修正動議通過。然後我們的附帶決議等一下我們就秀出來。我們現在正在理搞吧。謝謝。"},{"start":13531.772,"end":13542.251,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":13550.861,"end":13564.24,"text":"我們現在就先來處理我們的互代決議六案我們現在請先讀我們這六案的互代決議謝謝這是之前的"},{"start":13566.909,"end":13584.514,"text":"附帶決議一、鑒於聯合國生物多樣性公約2022年通過昆明蒙特樓全球生物多樣性框架建議至2030年至少實現30%的土地、內陸、水域、沿海及海洋區域為保護區或其他有效保育措施之區域以及有效賦予全球30%的退化陸地與"},{"start":13586.795,"end":13608.3,"text":"海洋生態系議員建請海洋委員會參照國際趨勢及國內現況積極統合協調相關機關促請海洋保護區之化設或其他有效保育措施區域之認定並定期檢討保育成效以達保護海洋生態環境保育海洋生物多樣性之永續目標逐步與國際目標接軌提案人委員蘇巧慧等3人。"},{"start":13609.5,"end":13634.432,"text":"附帶決議二為確保海洋生物多樣性之保育與輔育之實施效益中央主管機關在擬定海洋庇護區保育計劃時應在明下列事項一計劃範圍目標及規劃圖二海洋生態資源系統與環境之基礎調查及分析三分區規劃及維護管理之規定或措施四財務與人力實施計劃五其他相關事項提案人委員蘇巧慧等五人"},{"start":13635.572,"end":13655.692,"text":"附帶決議三為落實海洋生態環境維護海洋生物多樣性之保育與賦育並促進海洋保護區域之整合規劃及執行中央主管機關因會商有關機關見證海洋保護資料庫與專屬網頁公開前述資料庫與專屬網頁並定期更新之避利相關資料之完備建置與追蹤提案人為蘇曉慧等4人附帶決議四"},{"start":13660.165,"end":13681.982,"text":"海洋保育跟原住民的生活以及傳統文化息息相關,原請海洋委員會會同原住民族委員會與本法通過後辦理之事項如列如下,依三個月內與原住民族地區各縣市辦理至少三場次相關法案說明會,並邀請族人參與積極溝通說明,讓族人瞭解本法的利弊得失以及後續影響,必利族人清楚之息。"},{"start":13682.742,"end":13692.82,"text":"二、後續原住民族地區之相關法案說明會中一族群分部區增加事宜之主與主與宣導人員提案人文高金素美等4人。"},{"start":13694.724,"end":13715.123,"text":"附帶決議五為達成海洋生物多樣性之目標主管機關應採取各種海洋保育措施並直基於科學證據中央主管機關應與本法施行後五年內完成我國海域生態調查並公開之其後每五年進行調查以更新資料提案人委員牛許廷等五人附帶決議六"},{"start":13717.199,"end":13724.243,"text":"一、海洋保育法公布施行後政府應致力於119年以前達成保護至少30%海洋之目標。二、海洋委員會應將生態監測資訊對外公開並於擬定海洋庇護區劃設前應召開公聽會並邀請公民團體利害關係人及在地居民表示意見後再行擬定並送審議會審議以及應接受人民團體關於海洋庇護區劃設之提報。"},{"start":13741.873,"end":13769.432,"text":"三、鑒於海洋委員會海洋保育署組織編制及執法量能有限,仍有賴海洋委員會海巡署提供支援,以達整體海洋保育之縱效,原建請海洋委員會統整所屬海岸巡防機關執行量能,則請海洋保育署規劃海洋保育相關課程,協助相關執法人員接受海洋保育專業課程,課程內容得包含海洋保育知識及巡護,海洋野生動物救援,海洋環境維護,海洋污染防治,違反"},{"start":13770.593,"end":13785.024,"text":"違反案件犯罪偵查、援助民族知識及援助民族生物多樣性等課程總訓練時數至少20小時以上並一定其回訊以確保其專業執法能力提案人委員牛許廷等5人宣讀完畢"},{"start":13791.158,"end":13795.103,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":13810.831,"end":13832.693,"text":"有修正過嗎?沒有啊,都沒有修正過捏。我們方都不是唸修正過的,就是唸最早的提案而已。對。今天有新的提案。不過跟代報,這邊附帶決議四跟七,附帶決議四跟七,高級委員這邊提出來是不是,是有...沒有,七已經有,七已經測案了。七測,我們讀六,一到六而已。"},{"start":13834.515,"end":13834.535,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":13862.808,"end":13877.917,"text":"第四案,他加了這個,這是新的。"},{"start":13880.399,"end":13900.375,"text":"決議第四項決議我們希望可以把三個月改成六個月因為這個場次可能比較多所以在人力安排上面能不能夠讓我們把三個月調成六個月那其他的文字我們可以接受對如果可以的話就是六個月內於濱海原住民族地區六個月六個月"},{"start":13909.684,"end":13928.013,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":13930.401,"end":13954.851,"text":"還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案?還有另外兩案"},{"start":13957.432,"end":13962.518,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"},{"start":13979.935,"end":13989.417,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃等16人審查委員陳亭妃"},{"start":14005.201,"end":14018.549,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":14025.6,"end":14035.6,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、一、二、三、四、五、"},{"start":14038.231,"end":14064.399,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、"},{"start":14066.762,"end":14085.994,"text":"三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、二、一、三、"},{"start":14095.674,"end":14111.953,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":14116.377,"end":14140.929,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐"},{"start":14145.225,"end":14170.966,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、七、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":14172.666,"end":14182.578,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":14189.693,"end":14205.842,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯罪案件事宜、詐欺犯�"},{"start":14217.193,"end":14238.583,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、"},{"start":14241.179,"end":14261.476,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件事宜、"},{"start":14265.623,"end":14278.418,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":14289.577,"end":14302.478,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":14309.36,"end":14309.38,"text":"第2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":14346.162,"end":14348.763,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":14361.459,"end":14370.935,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":14379.599,"end":14395.111,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、"},{"start":14396.132,"end":14410.988,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":14414.957,"end":14444.917,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"},{"start":14444.957,"end":14457.415,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":14480.384,"end":14490.483,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":14965.727,"end":14990.722,"text":"好,謝謝。好,那我們現在繼續開會。來,我們附帶決議,我們有兩案,請先讀。附帶決議七,為保育海洋生物資源,管理海域休閒活動,就其休閒財補所或之海洋生物資源之利用,應針對目前無法令規範之亂象,依本法規定之權責,訂定管理規範。提案人委員徐宇貞等六人。"},{"start":14994.403,"end":15020.159,"text":"附帶決議八海洋事務影響範疇多元權益相關者眾多原住民與民保育團體都是達成海洋永續的重要合作夥伴海洋委員會依海洋保育法第七條組成審議會時應以法律規定之組成比例為最低基準再盡可能擴大民間之參與提案人委員徐宇貞等6人宣誓完畢好各位委員那大家有沒有意見沒有好沒意見我們就照案通過"},{"start":15023.483,"end":15024.367,"text":"第九、第十條。"},{"start":15028.578,"end":15053.233,"text":"好請問各位委員照剛才先讀的協商結論通過請問有沒有異議沒有本次的會議審查之條文條次引述條文部分文字及相關的法制用語授權本席本席與議事人員整理做以下決議"},{"start":15062.171,"end":15066.293,"text":"討論事項海洋保育法草案今與併案審查完盡。擬具審查報告提報院會討論。請問在場委員需不需經黨團協商?不需要嗎?好。"},{"start":15086.308,"end":15093.583,"text":"不須黨團協商本案應會討論時由本席吳昭吉委員其名做補充說明。"},{"start":15096.206,"end":15114.691,"text":"本次會議到此結束現在散會感謝各位大家辛苦了大家辛苦了感謝所有的委員會我們所有的委員以及我們海委會所有的行政人員感謝你們"},{"start":15116.251,"end":15124.573,"text":"還有其他部位的代表,感謝各位大家都辛苦了,謝謝,謝謝,總算完成海洋保育法,謝謝。"},{"start":15145.162,"end":15149.204,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十一、二、三、四、五、六、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一、二、三、四、五、十一"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}