{"error":false,"id":["159962"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":159962,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159962","日期":"2025-04-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-19-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-04-09T11:06:44+08:00","結束時間":"2025-04-09T11:17:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce06e85bca76fa2846a0ce932bdb5123482eb6e21b32d8c6be2ee760386b7cab395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"11:06:44 - 11:17:47","會議時間":"2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長及國家發展委員會主任委員就「國際經貿情勢變化，提出協助國內傳統產業及中小企業因應之對策」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.16346875,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.81096875,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.844718750000002,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.91221875,"end":31.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.941593750000003,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.21096875,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.33159375,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.87096875,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.27971875,"end":57.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.55784375,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.24534375,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.48971875,"end":69.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.38721875,"end":70.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.66534375,"end":73.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.77471875,"end":84.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.82534375,"end":74.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.96284375,"end":87.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.15221875,"end":88.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.64159375,"end":94.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.48034375,"end":101.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.80409375,"end":105.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.92159375,"end":117.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.23221875,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.59846875000001,"end":126.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.17159375000001,"end":127.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.63971875000001,"end":130.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.86284375,"end":145.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.30346875,"end":149.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.89346875,"end":153.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.99846875,"end":157.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.25096875,"end":160.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.03534375,"end":165.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.72659375,"end":173.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.87721875,"end":208.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.45659375000002,"end":192.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.26409375,"end":209.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.87159375000002,"end":216.46971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.95909375000002,"end":219.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.38471875000002,"end":220.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.02596875,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.55721875,"end":225.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.10534375,"end":233.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.32784375000003,"end":237.12471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.39471875,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.53784375,"end":240.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.07346875000002,"end":241.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.96784375000001,"end":243.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.58784375000002,"end":244.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.44409375,"end":245.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.76471875000001,"end":246.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.23284375000003,"end":248.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.97096875000003,"end":256.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.17221875,"end":265.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.12971875,"end":259.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.47034375000004,"end":271.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.97159375,"end":276.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.30409375,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.98721875,"end":292.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.35221875,"end":293.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.36909375,"end":293.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.46159375,"end":296.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.60909375,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.90409375,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.59159375,"end":300.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.21596875,"end":304.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.82721875000004,"end":306.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.39659375,"end":308.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.83534375,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.15159375,"end":308.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.30346875000004,"end":312.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.48846875000004,"end":316.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.58534375,"end":315.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.84659375,"end":323.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.25034375,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.87784375,"end":335.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.97846875000005,"end":337.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.85596875000005,"end":345.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.62659375000004,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.97659375,"end":355.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.58721875000003,"end":357.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.24096875000004,"end":357.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.05096875000004,"end":358.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.08034375,"end":364.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.10909375,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.17221875,"end":365.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.81346875,"end":369.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.86784375,"end":373.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.31909375000004,"end":371.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.45784375000005,"end":384.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.22909375,"end":379.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.79846875000004,"end":381.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.71346875,"end":393.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.25221875,"end":395.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.10409375,"end":398.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.29346875000005,"end":400.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.28471875,"end":406.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.00534375,"end":410.12721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.21159375,"end":410.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.29596875000004,"end":412.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.54034375000003,"end":416.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.70409375,"end":418.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.13846875,"end":426.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.64784375000005,"end":430.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.74846875000003,"end":433.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.10284375000003,"end":431.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.16159375,"end":449.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.49909375000004,"end":433.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.60034375000004,"end":433.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.95221875000004,"end":456.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.34346875000006,"end":460.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.25846875,"end":495.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.88159375000004,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.97846875000005,"end":472.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.24034375,"end":504.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.96471875000003,"end":514.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.80284375,"end":515.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.6928437500001,"end":526.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.2947187500001,"end":530.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.59784375,"end":530.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.96909375,"end":530.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.85909375,"end":533.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.0234687500001,"end":537.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.0734687500001,"end":543.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.3003437500001,"end":546.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.91596875,"end":550.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.8815937500001,"end":552.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.7709687500001,"end":558.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.3572187500001,"end":558.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.40346875,"end":561.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.4072187500001,"end":569.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.79846875,"end":579.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.1765937499999,"end":581.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.79659375,"end":583.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.9228437500001,"end":586.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.1628437500001,"end":588.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.23846875,"end":592.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.88346875,"end":597.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.49034375,"end":616.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.52534375,"end":631.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.13471875,"end":635.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.64471875,"end":638.1084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.6653437500001,"end":645.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.58409375,"end":654.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.8147187500001,"end":657.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.8984687500001,"end":659.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.52284375,"end":660.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.4172187500001,"end":660.9909687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.489,"end":21.036,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請郭部長跟劉主委請郭部長劉主委"},{"start":31.994,"end":50.68,"text":"我想請就教兩位現在我們目前我們預估對於傳產是提出的是700億的特別預算對於我們的農業是180億那我想要請問以就目前"},{"start":51.96,"end":72.887,"text":"我們這樣子的一個情況什麼樣子的情況下你們未來去談會增加我們要補助不管是傳產微創微小型企業以及對於農業我們要增加在什麼樣子的條件下"},{"start":73.98,"end":87.651,"text":"報告委員 我想我剛才也有講過了880億是特別預算在現階段馬上能夠紓困止血對這些中小微企業的部分"},{"start":88.72,"end":103.992,"text":"那對於這個中期來講中期所謂的也不要講說中期就是說目前在處理的第一個階段我們是這個樣子那第二個階段當我們第一個階段結束的時候發現有必要再持續來協助"},{"start":106.013,"end":120.305,"text":"那持續來進行的時候這個預算我相信是會再增加的會再增加的那但是這一些因為是屬於特別預算需要大院各位委員的支持所以我在說什麼情況下我知道啊但是"},{"start":121.756,"end":139.13,"text":"剛才你們說啦我們有非常多套的劇本我也認同我們談判絕對不能只有一套劇本但是在什麼樣子的情況下我們要給企業信心啊我們在什麼樣子的情況下會要對我們的傳產對我們的農業在提高我們特別預算什麼樣情況下報告委員因為我們現在還沒有"},{"start":150.953,"end":172.959,"text":"我們雖然有掌握這整個情勢啦但是每一家廠商對應這個環境的變異他需要的協助程度是不一樣的我不是每一家直接乘上多少家宿我們不是這樣子做而是直接的去訪談接觸這一些可以講說這些有受到影響的這一些廠商"},{"start":174.019,"end":193.698,"text":"我們來協助他需要什麼樣的協助這個是不一樣的我們有很多他可能在生產上面需要我們協助可能在訂單調整上面需要我們協助可能在金融上面需要我們協助但是產銷人發財太多了我知道我必須要去identify這一些他需要你什麼時候可以identify"},{"start":194.238,"end":208.719,"text":"我们现在都在进行中进行中我们现在我们整个产业发展署我们的中小企业署我们的园区管理局我们大概四个单位在进行所谓厂商的访谈"},{"start":210.043,"end":238.681,"text":"所以我们分别第一个我们跟我们比较高阶的同仁是跟这个工会产业工会去做一些座谈对实际上的厂商我们都一一的去访谈我相信这样子得到的讯息会比较正确而不是大家用那个假设性的这个讯息所以对我们来讲我们虽然是这样但是我们希望能够对症下药"},{"start":239.571,"end":264.869,"text":"然後來協助他們好那什麼時候談什麼時候去美國談啊納坦雅胡對不對以色列總理他已經去美國談他們就零關稅你們希望的目標是零關稅是不是你從零關稅開始談嗎從零關稅看你們自己的目標勒你們自己設定的目標有沒有辦法像以色列一樣談到零關稅"},{"start":266.736,"end":293.556,"text":"這個是談判的這個談判小組他們的目標啦 設定啦齁我們是盡量以不影響國內的生態然後創造有競爭優勢的的這樣的情境啦齁然後讓這個這個談判小組的人能夠跟對方來談我想這個有很多的這種give and take所以還沒有確定什麼時候談你看"},{"start":295.529,"end":323.21,"text":"石破茂他已經跟川普通電話了那他們就是優先去談那我們到底什麼時候我們比較low key啦所以我們要low profile去進行這件事情不需要那麼樣那怎樣我們是要隱藏起來我們是隱藏起來還是已經談了那個報告委員我們一定是這樣子一定在這個priority在前面的group"},{"start":324.298,"end":329.401,"text":"你已經確定我們是在Priority Group在韓國之後嗎?會不會在韓國之後?"},{"start":336.427,"end":363.782,"text":"我們主要的競爭你們都一直在談嘛只要我們不比我們主要的競爭對手的關稅還要就是高的情況下我們就有保持我們的貿易優勢但是目前我們就比日韓都還要高啊是不是報告委員那個韓國跟美國啊他們是這個FTA的"},{"start":365.879,"end":383.77,"text":"所以你認為我們這樣子的情況已經比過去好是不是不是比過去好了我的意思就是說不針對單一的命題去做一個假設我們是談整體的對我們中華民國"},{"start":384.83,"end":411.835,"text":"有幫助的對我們整個台灣的企業這個產業能夠穩住在台灣製造台灣生產這個是我們最大的目的所以你還是不確定什麼時候開始談我現在都在進行中好那對於美國所要求的消除貿易障礙的部分我們有沒有辦法做到在著作權方面呢"},{"start":412.694,"end":434.627,"text":"報告委員消除貿易障礙的部分很多是基於文化跟習慣的這個部分所以我們會跟對方溝通解釋說明台灣為什麼做了這些措施會引起他們認為是貿易障礙我想從這個地方去溝通那他們會去溝通會去談判"},{"start":436.468,"end":455.697,"text":"我認為我們必須要表達為什麼要做這個事情才有辦法再去做談的內容啦對不對這是give and take的部分嘛所以這個很重要美國認為重要的事情我們可能有疏忽或者是我們認為重要的事情美國他們不清楚所以這個很難談我想"},{"start":457.678,"end":472.552,"text":"談判啊像我跟劉主委我們在民間大概每一年這種重大談判都會碰到一兩次我這一輩子大概民間做50年的工作我大概有150次談判的這個經驗所以你會去談是不是就我們的經驗來講所以你會代表去談"},{"start":474.073,"end":495.05,"text":"沒有沒有我們兩個就是提供我們過去的經驗讓談判小組去談這些事情我想很多的事情我們過去的經驗可能是很久的經驗那他們現在談判小組他們與時俱進啊他們是專家我們是在外面談商業的部分所以我們可以提供一點經驗"},{"start":496.351,"end":515.69,"text":"那我的意思就是說談判通常會站在give and take的這個角度上面然後取得一定的平衡那這個裡面我們當然講說非貿易障礙這塊的東西不是數字可以解讀的而是要從文化習慣各方面來綜合考量"},{"start":516.798,"end":543.17,"text":"取得對方的諒解或者取得對方的同意或者取得對方的知曉我想這一方面有助於溝通啦我們只是提供這樣的意見好 你站第一排太久了是不是讓那個留住我一下主委喔剛才你在你的報告裡面提到喔就是美國的市場其實算全球市場的就是不是全部啊"},{"start":544.369,"end":551.984,"text":"那有86%是其他的市場可是我要給你看的是我們的數字我們國家的數字"},{"start":556.94,"end":574.308,"text":"這是我國對就是主要的出口數字你看到了我們的數字裡面對中國大陸與香港在我們總出口量的31.7%對美國是23.4%對東協東協也是在這一次對美國來講也是重大的損損失的國家是18.5%那我想請問我們要轉去哪裡"},{"start":587.233,"end":616.056,"text":"我們現在要轉去哪裡委員是這樣子其實我們在很多新興的市場我們其實都還有很大的成長空間那對我們來講的話其實對廠商而言在這個時候它兩個大的可能只有三種比較可能大的方向第一個是供應鏈移轉往美國走或者是找到一個最適合生產地譬如說稅率10%的地方另外一個角度是它就市場上面進行分散"},{"start":617.056,"end":644.789,"text":"進行分散像最近崛起的印度市場土耳其市場其實也蠻多台灣廠商走到裡面那從這裡面賺到一桶金所以我們只是希望幫大家找到很多替代市場然後呢協助這些廠商往替代市場去發展對 問題是你找出替代市場的時候廠商會不會跟著政府的腳步走是不是廠商會不會跟著是不是你沒有提供足夠的誘因是嗎"},{"start":645.806,"end":657.492,"text":"我們會提供誘因之外我們其實也跟一些協會有在溝通那我們也在探討怎麼樣協助這些協會帶著他的會員往新的市場去開發好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時7分）謝謝主席，我想要請郭部長跟劉主委。"],["主席：請郭部長、劉主委。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請教兩位，目前我們預估對傳產提出700億的特別預算，對於農業是180億，請問就目前我們這樣子的情況，在什麼樣子的情況下，你們未來去談，會增加我們的補助？不管是傳產、微創、微小型企業以及對於農業，在什麼樣的條件下，我們要增加補助？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我剛才也有講過880億是特別預算。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。"],["郭部長智輝：現階段馬上對這些中小微企業能夠紓困止血，對於中期來講，也不要說中期，目前在處理的第一個階段，我們是這個樣子，而第二個階段，當第一個階段結束的時候，發現有必要再持續協助、持續進行的時候，我相信這個預算是會再增加的，但是這一些因為是屬於特別預算，需要大院各位委員的支持。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我是說什麼情況下？我知道啊！但是剛才你們說啦，我們有非常多套劇本，我也認同，我們談判絕對不能只有一套劇本，在什麼樣的情況下，我們要給企業信心？在什麼樣子的情況下，會對我們的傳產、對我們的農業再提高特別預算？在什麼樣的情況下？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們現在有掌握整個情勢，但是每一家廠商對應環境變異所需要的協助程度不一樣，不是以每一家直接乘上多少家數，我們不是這樣子做，而是直接去訪談、接觸可以說是有受到影響的這一些廠商，我們來協助它，看需要什麼樣的協助，這個是不一樣的，我們有很多……它可能在生產上面需要我們協助，可能在訂單調整上面需要我們協助，可能在金融上面需要我們協助，但是產銷人發財太多了……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道。"],["郭部長智輝：我們必須去identify這一些他需要的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你什麼時候可以identify？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在都在進行中啊！現在我們整個產業發展署、中小企業署、園區管理局等等，大概四個單位在進行廠商的訪談，第一個，我們比較高階的同仁是跟產業公會去做一些座談，對實際上的廠商我們都一一去訪談，我相信這樣子得到的訊息會比較正確，而不是大家用假設性的訊息。對我們來講，雖然是這樣，但是我們希望能夠對症下藥，然後來協助他們。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，那什麼時候談？什麼時候去美國談？以色列總理納坦雅胡已經去美國談，他們就零關稅，你們希望的目標是零關稅對不對？從零關稅開始談嘛，那你們自己的目標呢？你們自己設定的目標有沒有辦法像以色列一樣談到零關稅？"],["郭部長智輝：這個是談判小組的目標設定，我們是儘量以不影響國內的生態，創造有競爭優勢的情境，然後讓談判小組的人能夠跟對方談，我想這個有很多的give and take……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以還沒有確定什麼時候談？你看石破茂已經跟川普通電話了，他們就是優先去談，那我們到底什麼時候？"],["郭部長智輝：我們比較low key啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：比較low key？"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們要low profile去進行這件事情，不需要那麼樣的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我們是要隱藏起來？我們是隱藏起來，還是已經談了？"],["郭部長智輝：不是的，報告委員，我們一定是priority在前面的group，一定是在前面的group……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你已經確定我們是在priority group？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：在韓國之後嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：因為我不是談判委員，我不清楚……"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會是在韓國之後？"],["郭部長智輝：有幾個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們一直在談只要在不比我們主要競爭對手的關稅還要高的情況下，就可以保持我們的貿易優勢，但是目前我們就比日、韓都還要高啊，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，韓國跟美國他們是FTA的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以呢？"],["郭部長智輝：所以他現在加了一個更加重傷啊！他是重傷啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你認為我們這樣子的情況已經比過去好，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：不是比過去好啦，我的意思是說不針對單一的命題去做假設，我們是談整體的、對中華民國有幫助的，讓整個臺灣的企業、產業能夠穩住在臺灣製造、臺灣生產，這個是我們最大的目的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你還是不確定什麼時候開始談？"],["郭部長智輝：現在都在進行中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，那對於美國所要求的消除貿易障礙的部分，我們有沒有辦法做到？在著作權方面。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，關於消除貿易障礙的部分，很多是基於文化跟習慣的部分，所以我們會跟對方溝通、解釋、說明為什麼臺灣這些措施會引起他們認為是貿易障礙，我想從這個地方去溝通。那他們會去溝通、會去談判，我認為我們必須表達為什麼我們要做這些事情，這樣才有辦法再去談內容，對不對？這是give and take的部分，所以這個很重要，美國認為重要的事情，我們可能有疏忽，或者是我們認為重要的事情，美國他們不清楚，這樣就很難談。針對談判，像我跟劉主委，我們在民間每一年這種重大談判大概都會碰到一、兩次，我這一輩子在民間做了50年的工作，我大概有150次談判的經驗，就我們的經驗……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你會去談是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：就我們的經驗來講……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你會代表去談？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有、沒有，我們兩個就是提供我們過去的經驗讓談判小組去談這些事情。我想針對很多事情，我們過去的經驗可能是很久的經驗，現在談判小組與時俱進，他們是專家，我們是在外面談商業的部分，所以我們可以提供一點經驗。我的意思是說，談判通常會站在give and take的角度上面取得一定的平衡，非貿易障礙這種東西不是數字可以解讀的，而是要從文化、習慣各方面來綜合考量，取得對方的諒解，或者取得對方的同意，或者取得對方的知曉，我想這一方面有助於溝通，我們只是提供這樣的意見。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，你站第一排太久了，是不是讓劉主委一下？","主委，剛才你在報告裡面提到美國市場其實並不是占全球市場的全部，有86%是其他的市場，可是我要給你看的是我國主要的出口數字，你應該可以看到在我們的數字裡面，中國大陸與香港占我們總出口量的31.7%，美國是23.4%，東協則是18.5%，而東協這一次也是有重大損失的國家。我想請問我們要轉去哪裡？我們現在要轉去哪裡？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：其實在很多新興的市場我們都還有很大的成長空間，對廠商而言，在這個時候只有三種比較可能的大方向，第一個是供應鏈移轉，往美國走或者是找到一個最適合的生產地，譬如說稅率10%的地方。另外一個角度是就市場上面進行分散，像最近崛起的印度市場、土耳其市場，其實也有滿多臺灣廠商走到裡面，而且從這裡面賺到一桶金。所以我們只是希望幫大家找到很多替代市場，然後協助廠商往替代市場去發展。"],["謝委員衣鳯：問題是你找出替代市場的時候，廠商會不會跟著政府的腳步走？你們有提供足夠的誘因嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：除了提供誘因之外，其實我們也跟一些協會在溝通，我們也在探討怎麼樣協助這些協會帶著他的會員往新的市場去開發。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯）：現在請呂玉玲委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-7","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","徐巧芯","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","劉書彬","李坤城","鍾佳濱","蔡易餘","黃國昌","牛煦庭","林倩綺","陳冠廷","黃建賓","徐富癸","葉元之","徐欣瑩","陳超明","劉建國"],"page_start":37,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長及國家發展委員會主任委員就「國際經貿情勢變化，提出協助國內傳統產業及中\n小企業因應之對策」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143501_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}