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敬請委員執政謝謝"},{"start":2538.902,"end":2555.969,"text":"好我們非常謝謝我們的鄭部長還有我們在場委員已經達到法定的三人所以請問對於上次的會議議事錄有沒有疑議好沒有那我們就議事錄確定那接下來我們就請法務部的郭司長進行報告時間五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":2561.109,"end":2583.088,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生、大家早、大家好今天奉邀到貴委員會就如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌案件．表本部列席報告．並備質詢除了書面報告外．口頭則要報告如下 敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2583.809,"end":2601.006,"text":"防制毒品入侵校園為當前的反毒工作重點項目行政院在106年頒布新世代反毒策略以跨部會、跨地方、跨領域的整體作戰方式從驗毒、試毒、緝毒、戒毒等"},{"start":2602.048,"end":2614.368,"text":"擬定策略本部依循反毒策略的第一期工作基礎在第二期落實減少毒品需求、減少毒品供給、減少毒品傷害的三檢策略"},{"start":2615.638,"end":2633.454,"text":"達到阻斷毒三流的目標．並強化校園藥頭、茶器及左移在犯的預防機制．逐步達到抑制犯罪在犯．降低毒品新生的雙手目標．本部主責的企圖工作已有相當成效．"},{"start":2634.255,"end":2655.105,"text":"相較於第一期的這個超毒品數量成長有5.49倍有效的減少毒品供應施用毒品的人口下降22.29%減少毒品需求而施用PMMA的致死死亡人數從109年的93人到112年降為0人有效的減少毒品危害"},{"start":2662.429,"end":2682.097,"text":"那就有關於本部校園毒品防制的作為跟各位委員報告從法制面、查緝面、宣導面以及這個司法保護面來做報告首先有關於法制面的部分對黑幫、販毒、炸雞等犯罪組織吸收幫助或者利用而造犯罪"},{"start":2682.697,"end":2706.363,"text":"共同實施犯罪、招募兒少等這些犯罪行為依照兒童及少年福利權利保障法第112條第一項及組織犯罪防制條例第4條三項的規定都要加重期刑到二分之一而有關人口犯罪法31條第三項也規定成年人利用兒少犯罪者最重可"},{"start":2706.983,"end":2731.785,"text":"最高可處7年有期徒刑再來有關於毒品危害防制條例第9條一項的部分曾恩忍販賣轉讓毒品給兒少及吸引兒少施用毒品的話都會加重及刑至二分之一就有關於掃黑的一個法制面的一個加重部分在112年也擴大了這個處罰加重罪者增定刑法302條之一"},{"start":2733.346,"end":2747.864,"text":"以及這個組織犯罪防制條例的相關的規定就有關於查緝面將組織犯罪侵入校園吸收利用在學學生失事犯罪案件類為指標性的犯罪組織案件並檢討成效二指令"},{"start":2750.267,"end":2775.422,"text":"利用兒少犯罪最高檢成立的少黑工作督導小組及各地檢署成立的少黑工作執行小組對於侵入校園、吸收利用在學學生實施犯罪的這些犯罪行為列為指標性的案件查辦再來,跨機關的合作包括這個依行這個新世代的反毒策略結合院檢"},{"start":2776.583,"end":2805.246,"text":"警教為合作平台有效防毒毒品侵入校園就宣導面本部依照新世代反毒策略行動綱領第二期會同相關部會落實執行各項反毒工作有關兒少校園毒品防制相關預防宣導並精進措施之下包括有獎勵結合地方政府民間團體反毒宣導"},{"start":2806.207,"end":2827.379,"text":"再來就是有關於這個持續製作反毒宣導影片在各投播平台播放整合政府部門反毒宣導建置本部的反毒大本營網站在有關於司法保護面落實適用毒品再犯防止推進計畫引導適用毒品的兒少復歸校園及"},{"start":2829.54,"end":2848.965,"text":"及其家庭。再來,行政院已經正在整合各部會的資源．積極嚴厲預防少年兒童犯罪方案就有關於校園霸凌部分．在112年的6月21日經總統公布《少年事件處理法》之後．"},{"start":2849.845,"end":2867.876,"text":"檢察官在偵辦案件過程如果發現少年設有出犯刑法法律的時候應該依由少年法院處理不得再對少年獲蓄偵查因此有關此一部分就依由教育部及內政部依權者處理最後"},{"start":2868.556,"end":2889.508,"text":"本部將持續運行新世代反毒策略及新世代反毒策略形容綱領透過公司部門的協力強化校園藥頭查緝避免販毒網路進入侵入校園以上報告謝謝各位委員的指教感謝好我們謝謝國司長的口頭報告那我們現在請警政署的蔡警政監來進行報告時間也是5分鐘"},{"start":2901.4,"end":2921.24,"text":"主席以及各位委員．各位女士先生大家好首先對於各位委員就警政業務推動的關注與指導表示由衷的感謝今日緊就本署組織的項目檢要報告如下敬請指教議題一如何防制毒品侵入校園像之一經統計五年警察機關查獲"},{"start":2923.291,"end":2925.515,"text":"應應青少年、學生涉毒向來為國人關注的議題為持續減低校園毒品危害"},{"start":2938.735,"end":2962.802,"text":"本署已經歸納出新興毒品樣態以及包裝多元化另外學生與校外接觸毒品、藥頭利用學生網路來販毒等學生可能涉及毒品及產生黑素的原因並利用行政院毒品防制匯報、新世代反毒策略行動綱領、校警定期聯繫會議等與各部會合作建立相關的機制"},{"start":2964.605,"end":2990.678,"text":"如下．之一強化查緝斷源供應．各級警察機關查獲的時候除了依照毒品危害防制條例報請偵辦施予裁罰外我們同時要求所屬要強化溯源追查藥頭另外在暑期的時候都會舉辦青春專案另外不定期的配合高檢署規劃執行安居企圖專案以查緝各類毒品阻斷各級毒品進入校園"},{"start":2991.578,"end":3015.64,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":3015.88,"end":3030.646,"text":"據學院身份的販毒青少年的時候：也會透過相關機制來反饋給學校立案來輔導：立案輔導的過程中：如果發現涉毒學生有掌握藥頭情資：也會在保護學生為前提之下：回饋給警方來溯源偵辦。機制3"},{"start":3033.087,"end":3059.966,"text":"明密聯繫事實入校本署已與教育部定有三級定期聯繫機制由教育部對本署各級主管教育行政機關對警察局各級學校對分局每三個月抄改一次聯繫會議討論校園安全等相關議題若校內發生重大刑案危害安全事件或發現毒品均可以透過相關機制來聯絡警方入校來協處機制是"},{"start":3062.828,"end":3077.8,"text":"因應毒情及時宣導本署已經督同各警察機關、少年輔導委員會而利用及時宣導、分群分眾以及中央廚房策略來辦理試毒及防止再犯的宣導除將查緝所見的最新毒品的樣態還有包裝來及時發布新聞使社會大眾窒息並及時防治"},{"start":3085.866,"end":3103.911,"text":"與各級學校也結合辦理反毒的宣導法治教育專題演講本組亦陸續推出反毒宣導系列影片邀請形象良好與具話題性的知名藝人、運動明星擔任反毒大使以強化新少年學生最新的嗜毒之能"},{"start":3106.607,"end":3130.063,"text":"經觀察近年涉及少年毒品犯罪人數均呈向下降趨勢．可見各部會藉由新世代反毒策略行動綱領、毒品防制匯報等相關會議．對於降低青少年犯罪人口數．發掘毒品黑數已經有一定的成效議題二．如何減少霸凌案件"},{"start":3132.645,"end":3145.136,"text":"為協同教育單位防制校園霸凌本屬以介於教育部定期聯繫會議等機制共同訂定相關房主作為樓下機制一掌握偏差行為先行輔導"},{"start":3146.898,"end":3161.777,"text":"為早期發現學生偏差行為使學生盡早進入輔導體系本屬與教育部合作定有偏差行為通知機制要求各警察機關發現學生在校外偏差行為應該以密件的方式來通知學校進行輔導"},{"start":3164.32,"end":3192.493,"text":"另外若我們少年學生在校外有涉犯《少年事件處理法》第三條一項二款的暴嫌行為亦將由各地方政府的少年輔導委員會結合學校來開案啟動行政輔導先行的機制機制二明密聯繫事實入校為尊重校園自治以及教學自由本署有訂定警察人員進入校園執法相關機制明訂警察人員未經校方同意不得進入校園"},{"start":3193.533,"end":3218.095,"text":"但是校方被動同意或主動請求時方得進入校園來執法為建立校園安全機制本署已經立定各警察分局與各級學校應該平時保持聯繫並由少年警察隊派專員進行聯繫機制3事後查核及下架機制國家NCC已經委託IWIN網路內容防護"},{"start":3219.036,"end":3219.737,"text":"以上報告 敬請指教"},{"start":3235.421,"end":3242.788,"text":"好,謝謝我們的蔡警政監的口頭報告我們現在就進行詢答每位初期委員質詢的時間是8分鐘票收延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘那如果委員有臨時提案請在上午"},{"start":3251.476,"end":3266.786,"text":"10點30分前提出並於委員會張雅玲委員質詢結束之後我們就要立即進行處理處理提案的時候若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場我們就原力不予處理我們事讓首先請發言登記第一位的紅孟凱委員質詢好主席謝謝麻煩請鄭部長好鄭部長"},{"start":3288.973,"end":3314.687,"text":"好部長好部長委員好我想今天召委排這個專題報告非常的有意義因為霸凌也好或者是說毒品進入校園都是我們長期非常關心的事情我們也希望真的能夠把這樣的事情給一勞永逸但實際上現實上不太可能為什麼因為只要有人的地方可能都有這樣的一個情況但您知道嗎在本席去查一下資料"},{"start":3315.687,"end":3334.279,"text":"6月到現在6月12日光短短12天裡面我們透過Google新聞的調查校園霸凌就出現90幾筆當然有一些是重複的可是從6月1號到6月12號新聞標題有某縣市校園傳霸凌校長否認蓋牌"},{"start":3336.6,"end":3359.791,"text":"國二生疑遭霸凌墜樓醫藥費募到了有婉拒同學告白高中生遭集體霸凌情深校園霸凌層出不窮然後呼籲大家社會大眾呼籲要防範未來換言之這樣的一個事件持續在發生我想先請教一下霸凌校園霸凌裡面有幾個樣態一個分別是深對深"},{"start":3361.172,"end":3369.518,"text":"一個是師對生一個有可能生對師當然比較少我們有沒有去統計比例這樣子的樣態裡面各佔多少比例"},{"start":3371.36,"end":3393.489,"text":"跟委員報告這一個我目前因為新的這個校園霸凌的防制法出來過去我們大概就只有著重在生對生那並沒有把師對生這個納入這個校園霸凌的一個防制準則裡面那更何況有可能是生對師當然這樣的例子比較少但是還是會有"},{"start":3394.509,"end":3409.787,"text":"主要還是大部分應該是說九成以上還是都是來自於身對身的一些這個霸凌事件可是光本席剛剛有講到6月1號到6月12其實就有兩個案件他是"},{"start":3411.368,"end":3428.539,"text":"施對生的霸凌事件包括有個縣市他講是說有小學六年級的特殊生遭導師辱罵疑似遭導師辱罵拍桌不敢上學然後讓縣市政府質疑是說通報跟整體納管機制有問題"},{"start":3429.841,"end":3441.029,"text":"為什麼?我覺得可以理解是怎麼樣就是說師對生會不會變成是他的特殊案例比較少但有沒有可能就造成是校方會集體來去做一個隱匿的狀況"},{"start":3443.371,"end":3443.631,"text":"但是處理的時候"},{"start":3468.376,"end":3469.577,"text":"各縣市有教育局去列管的案件"},{"start":3490.057,"end":3498.643,"text":"處理的狀況跟進度那其中像這個這個案件裡面要講到桃園市桃園市說管考的案件97%都已經結案那換言之還是有3%沒有結案"},{"start":3502.828,"end":3530.181,"text":"教育部身為中央主管機關有沒有去了解各縣市教育局每個月去做這種校園霸凌的管考案件結案的一個狀況因為本席剛剛一直聽到您講是說都要跟地方主管機關納入校園的相關督導學校也要適時的回報地方主管機關那一樣地方主管機關如果說它的積極程度沒有那麼多的話我們中央主管機關怎麼樣去督促地方主管機關"},{"start":3531.84,"end":3554.585,"text":"我們有沒有做一個整體每個月縣市教育局他們通報回報的狀況我們做個掌握基本上我們是有做廣告的所以我們才會特別提到說每個月他必須要地方政府他必須要對各個學校所發生的事件能夠進行列管那這一個更詳細的我們是不是能夠請簡單說明一下現在機制違和"},{"start":3557.486,"end":3584.749,"text":"跟委員報告我們部裡頭目前掌握的都是由校安通報所提報的疑似的案件那進入調查處理程序之後因為法令調查規定的時間是兩個月必要的時候可以再延長延長兩次一次一個月所以其實時間確實會拉得比較長一點點那這個管制的措施目前是在地方就是各主管機關的部分會進行管制那因為目前這一塊我們還沒有把這個透過網路的方式去填報它"},{"start":3585.39,"end":3585.69,"text":"稍後會進行統計"},{"start":3602.406,"end":3622.572,"text":"因為其實這感覺起來這是一個相對來說是系統性的問題你如果說可以由就像我們很多的這個食安也好或說相關的這個機制也好也都可以用通報的方式用填寫的方式那就可以一套系統大家從中央到地方就可以看到甚至本席比較不好意思講"},{"start":3622.992,"end":3642.688,"text":"如果說各縣市他也會去比﹖如果說互相可以看到﹖我們去識別的話﹖但至少可以看到哪一些縣市他有一些列管的相對結案數比較低哪些縣市結案數比較高那是不是也可以縣市之間來做一個互相砥礪求進步那再者剛剛本期有聽到部長特別講第4點"},{"start":3644.318,"end":3666.05,"text":"地方主管機關督促防制校園霸凌事件要納入中央對地方政府一般性教育的補助款考核項目所以說未來這樣結案率是不是也會是這個補助款的一個考核項目之一是的跟委員報告這就是我們希望說這一個許多的國民教育這一個還是地方政府他必須要有"},{"start":3667.111,"end":3668.132,"text":"我們這裡的比例會是多少?我那個補助款的比例"},{"start":3698.154,"end":3719.211,"text":"報告委員 這個我們考核項目裡面大概有佔百分之二以上那很多項目了那另外他回饋到要怎麼樣扣補助款現在以往他是用整個大補助款來處理現在部長希望能夠就霸凌的部分能夠針對性的先是努力與否以下結案情形做一個單獨的統計"},{"start":3721.973,"end":3749.51,"text":"對,我現在部長這就是本集剛看到的因為以往外界也會質疑也會擔心就是說中央有時候補助給地方都是看顏色啊我覺得這樣不好那一樣如果說你現在可以回歸到相對教育專業可以回歸到是說我們針對霸凌事件處理態度、積極程度以及預防程度來去做一個有效的算是一個評分標準之一我覺得這可能可以試試看大家來去做一個討論"},{"start":3750.45,"end":3774.266,"text":"那一樣那就變成是兩個部分第一你的比例有多少因為如果說你的比例不高的話那其實不痛不癢那第二是不是能夠落實不要說你現在拿出來之後到最後大家又覺得是說你只是處罰到哪一些縣市有顏色的縣市我就顏色不同的縣市我就用這一個來閒置你沒顏色的縣市我就"},{"start":3775.987,"end":3800.901,"text":"大開方便之門會不會有這樣的情況?跟委員報告請委員放心我希望你做的讓我放心我希望你做的讓全國國人放心讓全國家長放心所以制度什麼時候把這個制度建立起來告訴各界讓我們所有縣市的教育局能夠了解我們現在的這樣的一個新的方式那大家"},{"start":3802.501,"end":3829.515,"text":"遊戲規則制定大家照片照鏡什麼時候我們會把它給確認一個月內以後一個月內我們會把這個詳細的這個考評跟相關的跟委員送給委員執政給本席然後並且通知各縣市政府教育局來去做確認遊戲規則是不是那比例本席在提醒比例相對來說一定要讓大家覺得是說是有感的有感"},{"start":3829.935,"end":3835.743,"text":"大家會爭取那我們不是要處罰重點是我們希望的是大家能夠做好百分之百來"},{"start":3837.844,"end":3840.865,"text":"對部長你講到一個非常大的重點其實因為今天有兩個主題另外一個主題就是毒品防制的部分"},{"start":3864.375,"end":3881.348,"text":"其實毒品防制的部分本席剛剛看到您這邊這樣子的一個報告但是國小、國中、高中、大學甚至研究所這樣態毒品防制是完全不同的國中有所謂現在我們也看到媒體報導上面寫說"},{"start":3884.06,"end":3906.981,"text":"青少年吸食電子煙的使用率從107年的2.7%上升到6.6%短短三年內快速倍增了快兩倍的時間而且這還是三年前的資料現在有多氾濫我們還不清楚但是電子煙明明是到目前為止大家去問不管是加熱煙或電子煙在台灣都是非法的產品"},{"start":3907.602,"end":3907.762,"text":"大麻"},{"start":3932.108,"end":3932.128,"text":"部長．"},{"start":3961.755,"end":3982.631,"text":"您今天的口頭報告跟書面報告本席特別看了一下我必須說沒有針對不同的年齡層跟不同的樣態來去做深入的防治這個寫得很簡單但是如果說你這樣就可以做的話那這一些問題不會留待你來解決"},{"start":3983.612,"end":3985.473,"text":"部長,本席能不能要求比較具體因為接下來有可能我們要害防治法"},{"start":4006.363,"end":4031.848,"text":"加熱煙會去做納管電子煙是禁止這是現在煙害防治法通過在第10屆的時候通過那現在針對青少年不管是使用這個電子煙氾濫的一個狀況能不能做一個比較具體的防治的一個項目來跟我們教育文化委員會來做報告那另外大學生大專院校用大麻的部分是不是也能夠有一個檢討報告這個時間點您能夠多久來提出"},{"start":4036.929,"end":4053.186,"text":"三個月好不好謝謝委員我想我們會加速來做因為確實我們業能夠快速掌握第一線上各級學校我知道因為現在接下來就要暑假本期為什麼會提三個月就是希望是說在今年聶聶剛上任本期希望能夠在"},{"start":4054.877,"end":4080.422,"text":"9月開學前我們可以看到新任部長對於教育有新的想法跟防制的方式那能夠在9月的時候開學的時候不管是國中校不管是大專院校都有新的一個防制或是我想我們至少我們先可以拿一個教育階段或者一個年齡階段來做一個例子先來跟委員做報告好那是不是9月之前能夠提供這個書面資料"},{"start":4083.172,"end":4084.474,"text":"您需要多久時間?抱歉。"},{"start":4101.325,"end":4125.201,"text":"因為暑假學生這個他確實放假那當然如果我們可以大量的收集到一些Data我現在沒有不需要你收集Data這Data應該是之前就已經收集過了部長問一下之前這不是今天才出現的問題你看我們朝委都已經在等待我我現在只是說你在新的會期現在已經快要放暑假了嗎如果就現有的Data分析沒有問題的開學前我們就可以提出來提出有效的防制"},{"start":4130.945,"end":4133.487,"text":"部長你提的這個本席同意喔?如果說你願意的話你都可以把它編列成明年的預算你只要你提出來本席這邊教育文化委員會一定會支持"},{"start":4154.5,"end":4183.379,"text":"你願意來帶頭做每10年開始來舉動做霸凌以及做相關的一個毒品的校園的一個狀況的一個大規模調查本席支持但我們現在比較專注的是說當現在9月要新開學的時候我已經提出來了新少年的電子菸的氾濫使用以及大專院校的大麻的氾濫使用怎麼樣有效的提出防制的項目而不是像今天一樣兩三頁的紙就把那麼大的題目給打發完畢是"},{"start":4184.6,"end":4208.777,"text":"9月可以好,謝謝部長謝謝,官員請回座接著繼續進行請柯之恩委員、柯之恩召委質詢謝謝主席,我們是不是請部長還有我們請法務部的我們的法務部的代表還有我們警政署的代表三位好不好請三位官員就備詢"},{"start":4212.625,"end":4224.491,"text":"好 謝謝三位我現在是首先是不是可以請教育部長、法務部代表、警政署你們可以承諾堅決反對大麻合法化部長你可以率先承諾嗎部長現在不是在做學術討論你是不是可以堅決反對大麻合法化現在我們法律的規定是堅決反對好 那我們的警政署"},{"start":4239.417,"end":4254.405,"text":"報告委員警政署也同意好那我們的法務部各位報告有關於大麻非法這一個部分是法務部向來的政策是不可能合法化對所以也是我們安居棄土的查棄重點沒錯為什麼我要請"},{"start":4255.786,"end":4255.806,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":4280.385,"end":4295.058,"text":"之前就有媒體的報導他們就認為說這個大麻我特別強調這個大麻串起這個在大學裡面幾乎已經是每一個人都很清楚的現在大學生還有包括在很多年輕朋友吸食大麻變成是一種時尚"},{"start":4297.04,"end":4300.042,"text":"當媒體這樣報導的時候呢這個教育部馬上就做出回擊然後就告訴大家說根據我們這樣統計呢這個用戶濫用幾乎這個校安通報是下降的來我們來看看這個教育部給我們的數字也的確啦你從108年到112年來說的話校安的通報次數是下降的但是我們再看下一頁"},{"start":4321.477,"end":4321.717,"text":"接下來我要問下面這一張"},{"start":4348.069,"end":4352.832,"text":"甚至有一位這個已經是署名的醫生：他趁著把他的名字講出來在他的案例當作精神科醫師：他說現在是目前來說的他的這個所謂的個案已經是已經出現了幻聽幻覺而且這位個案他認為他已經特別提出來系上幾乎有一半人都在吸食大麻"},{"start":4369.941,"end":4373.786,"text":"那這個東西有待考慮可是這位醫生是我查過了的確是醫院的真實的一個醫生他為什麼要爆出這樣的一個個案因為他認為這個事情非常的嚴重我們接下來看一下我接下來問大麻到底去哪裡了我請三位可以代表來回應的因為你看"},{"start":4387.523,"end":4392.046,"text":"2023年3月的時候我們高檢署市警目前已經4年增加的8倍然後高檢署在2024年6月7號非常近的告訴我們他們查獲量是從2000跟這個2022年比較起來是增加了將近50%誰可以來回答這個問題然後接下來我還要問一個問題是你們地檢署辦理大麻的案件你們真假的失用的人數跟你查獲的量數是完全不符合比例的"},{"start":4417.324,"end":4431.37,"text":"那這個黑數的確存在啊這誰可以來回應一下所以部長你剛剛所說教育部的教育那個藥物濫用是下降是這樣子嗎我們再往前看保持前面那一張這個黑數到底有多少誰能告訴我們我們是不是可以請我們的法務部"},{"start":4437.318,"end":4459.916,"text":"跟委員報告因為就如同剛跟委員報告的法務部對大馬的查緝這幾年來是全力的在查緝所以會有那麼大的量是因為我們包括我們48警察機關全力的查緝那至於這個黑數的問題確實存在著私用人口黑數的一個問題因為大馬私用的人口結構上他是比較高白領"},{"start":4460.777,"end":4463.058,"text":"所以跟委員報告這幾波的NG企圖的計畫就針對有關於這個私用人口的黑素座右系統的一個查緝那有辦法嗎?你看這個差距很大欸"},{"start":4484.005,"end":4508.26,"text":"跟委員報告就是一百一十二年就是去年那一年齁總共的適用人數查獲有八百零二個我知道這邊有啊這邊就在上面啊是那這個部門也是你們覺得25%跟你們查獲量我還是一句話啦完全司長完全是不成比例我們往下看啊這我要給部長來看大麻流竄其實最大的問題還是網路隨便可以看到啊你看"},{"start":4509.281,"end":4510.942,"text":"我這個是完全是用Twitter他後來改名X頻道各位部長看這都是在臺灣這全部在臺灣我只拿出1%而已隨處可見到告訴你什麼地方什麼地點你可以用什麼樣的產品你要找什麼樣的人"},{"start":4526.147,"end":4526.447,"text":"這是一個非常大的一個問題"},{"start":4548.615,"end":4567.369,"text":"部長,你現在已經發現,難怪你需要到年底,如果照這種樣態來說的話,可能給你時間都不夠用,對不對?感謝委員的一個提醒,我想大麻這些的從學校到警政到社政到醫療,我們是一個共同合作的一個單位。"},{"start":4569.61,"end":4592.228,"text":"也跟委員報告其實大麻這個大量的一個查緝事實上也感謝我們這個海關邊境海關因為他的查貨問題是那是上游我當然知道但是到你校園來說你看現在當你發現學生有大麻或在宿舍裡面有大麻的話警政要進入我們校園裡面其實也不太容易因為要經過一連串的這樣的一個過程"},{"start":4594.93,"end":4615.314,"text":"所以這個東西就更加是我們整個校園裡面使用的一個被查緝的一個困難度剛剛已經司長特別提到嘛很多都是來自白頂階層然後都在家裡使用的時候都會這個如果沒有鄰居報案沒有聞到那個味道你對味道敏感的話你根本就是大家嗨嗨了一晚就沒事了然後五天當中有三天還繼續嗨這是個很大的問題"},{"start":4617.975,"end":4640.299,"text":"部長我只是提醒你我們現在目前已經到樣態已經是非你所能夠控制的更不要說我們說電子菸好不好我們來看這個電子菸你應該不抽電子菸可是你知道我們電子菸已經入侵校園了嗎而且我要問法務部一下一到電子菸裡面有一個叫做依托米紙的用於用於這個電子菸當中而且會成癮而且你成癮的話沒有辦法思考然後呢就會像殭屍盤一樣很多民眾檢舉了為什麼我們動作這麼慢"},{"start":4645.2,"end":4649.122,"text":"法務部要來討論一下,你們什麼時候討論要把它列為我們這個所謂的三級毒品,什麼時候?對嘛,我就知道你要講明天,我就是因為查到你明天我今天特別問你這個問題,其他的各國早就把它列為是一個三級毒品,我們法務部到現在還跟我說明天,你覺得你們會不會太慢了?"},{"start":4665.05,"end":4681.626,"text":"根委員報告因為我們這個列為毒品的品項有一定的流程就是別人國家沒有流程喔根委員報告因為這個在五月份的時候食藥署那邊已經列為管藥所以你是明天嘛對不對明天變三級毒品"},{"start":4681.946,"end":4694.24,"text":"我還是認為慢很多每個人都有流程你這個流程就慢很多當我們的學生而且我還是我說一下部長你知道有非常多的人這些學生同才在炫耀本來還有一個叫煙蛋原是三個一百塊但是因為含有毒品現在呢一個要價兩千到兩千五賣人的速度非常快學生還會有集資來購買"},{"start":4703.63,"end":4724.036,"text":"所以說呢以你們各位的思維再看看我們現在這麼靈活的學生教養網路這個東西我們真的是落伍非常的多這是我很擔心的謝謝警政單位請回我接下來問一下霸凌的問題這個霸凌想讓我非常的痛心啊這個部長完全謝謝我們警政單位可以先回去一下啊這個法務部都回去部長你看看嘛桃園我隨便列舉嘛你看國二的長期受到霸凌傷到一半絕望"},{"start":4729.218,"end":4738.1,"text":"聚樓、阿嬤、靠咖啡室、三八五十班的醫療費都付不出來、隔代教養我知道你聽了也會非常的痛心然後呢我們就要問嘛這又不是長期的我都以為在看韓劇看到韓劇我覺得韓國人怎麼這麼可惡你看網路上都是我們台灣的長期霸凌下方為什麼沒有發現通報系統出了什麼問題家長都不知道學校輔導處怎麼可能允許一個女學生被霸凌到這種程度沒人知道"},{"start":4757.325,"end":4766.431,"text":"還有用跳樓來凸顯霸凌的黑暗面還有明星學校這是小三的學生被都是殺然後老師還公審他要向他跟全班來道歉因為他去檢舉老師類似這樣的事情部長看了會不會很痛心是 我都很痛心"},{"start":4776.597,"end":4783.779,"text":"當然是痛心然後呢我們再看看你們所看到的這些所謂的經費來說然後呢經費每一年都在加碗我剛剛以剛剛我們一起來討論你知道嗎為什麼我要特別說你去看看很多學生使用毒品的時候被誘騙的情況你們說你們花了很多的經費在做很多的宣導我告訴你宣導的結果是什麼"},{"start":4795.863,"end":4799.565,"text":"學長結果就是學生的認知完全是他會被人家認為說免費提供新興的毒品有25%認為說OK這是免費的還有很多人認為說不會被驗出沒有刑責不會成癮"},{"start":4810.791,"end":4816.212,"text":"這是別人在騙他的時候他都這麼認為然後我們的教育部還有一些反毒的宣導還給了一堆的經費這經費還不到位難怪這些學生被騙、被誘騙所以部長我也知道你從小到你從小學到你當過教育地方的教育局長你也當過到目前為止在大學當校長我很清楚但是你看看我們現在的經費是逐年下降我們的預算已經是下降了我們的決算更是沒有辦法"},{"start":4840.299,"end":4842.861,"text":"所以說呢我説實在我以前在大學也申請了經費那麽紫金花的見鬼了我跟妳說那到底對我們大學生有什麽效果但是呢我們還是那現在連申請都還申請不到"},{"start":4863.032,"end":4867.394,"text":"所以你剛答應洪孟楷三個月我某種程度還蠻贊同你到年底的因為這些太多樣態了否則你給我們的都會是一些很表象的都告訴我們有你光是看經費光是看樣態還有包括我們之後的怎麼樣去輔導我們的認知你看學生還認為說不會被判刑哦不會成癮哦免費給你哦"},{"start":4886.144,"end":4910.402,"text":"你看他的認知跟我們宣導的項目差距多大雖然他的預算下降我都認為如果預算沒有用到刀口不太會用到刀口上的話給這麼多預算也沒有用你同意吧部長同意我想這個怎麼讓預算真正用在刀口上發揮他的一個效益跟品質認知上面不同的階段裡面有不同的認知我個人覺得大學生如果你沒有給他一個"},{"start":4911.763,"end":4921.831,"text":"議議一個方向的話大麻那種還對學生來說一定超乎你想像之外用很多不同的管道最後最後一頁就是要請問你請問學生輔導法什麼時候送上來已經都快要結束了從潘部長到你現在我們的學生輔導法到目前為止我們都還沒有看到不斷的承諾部長我只是告訴你如果你們院板再不進來我們委員會就直接排審了我們已經不等了可以嗎部長"},{"start":4940.306,"end":4940.326,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":4970.444,"end":4971.344,"text":"謝謝主席,有請教育部政部長"},{"start":5000.694,"end":5000.814,"text":"我們請部長"},{"start":5010.009,"end":5031.903,"text":"首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug"},{"start":5032.603,"end":5033.244,"text":"在媒體上表示﹗"},{"start":5052.04,"end":5071.177,"text":"年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進"},{"start":5074.653,"end":5103.644,"text":"部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌"},{"start":5104.324,"end":5128.984,"text":"我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%"},{"start":5130.805,"end":5156.06,"text":"相比起其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到時候他通報鼓起勇氣通報了就沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌"},{"start":5157.06,"end":5163.602,"text":"但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您"},{"start":5165.482,"end":5188.713,"text":"所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊"},{"start":5191.072,"end":5192.493,"text":"謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次"},{"start":5207.768,"end":5215.156,"text":"我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就是說active、Innovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動、我們的積極、我們的創新、我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了"},{"start":5224.266,"end":5249.659,"text":"昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長"},{"start":5251.925,"end":5280.447,"text":"首先我想先分享一下生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐"},{"start":5283.206,"end":5307.591,"text":"我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那AdUse有發佈2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買深層室AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間"},{"start":5308.951,"end":5309.832,"text":"這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?"},{"start":5325.865,"end":5350.176,"text":"所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看"},{"start":5352.337,"end":5378.029,"text":"來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能"},{"start":5379.232,"end":5397.062,"text":"有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都沒有都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被"},{"start":5397.822,"end":5397.862,"text":"請部長聽聽看"},{"start":5416.519,"end":5418.04,"text":"好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,你能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?"},{"start":5451.763,"end":5471.891,"text":"我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的"},{"start":5473.231,"end":5485.134,"text":"這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的Seed TTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔"},{"start":5494.431,"end":5519.173,"text":"你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎"},{"start":5520.974,"end":5544.105,"text":"當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法"},{"start":5548.763,"end":5553.709,"text":"謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者"},{"start":5570.37,"end":5586.466,"text":"的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是甚麼間接幫手嗎好 這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子"},{"start":5587.006,"end":5614.062,"text":"可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會Vision Pro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售"},{"start":5615.182,"end":5637.5,"text":"今年年初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出"},{"start":5639.201,"end":5654.02,"text":"根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時則一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過"},{"start":5656.522,"end":5673.743,"text":"然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式"},{"start":5675.144,"end":5686.774,"text":"請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼我們稍微講一下時間的關係誰法務部有沒有其他"},{"start":5700.48,"end":5700.76,"text":"這是要補充嗎?"},{"start":5727.393,"end":5732.995,"text":"最後一個問題啦我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生"},{"start":5756.801,"end":5770.837,"text":"我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息"},{"start":5772.279,"end":5786.65,"text":"我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化"},{"start":5788.602,"end":5806.598,"text":"我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這一個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內以書面回覆本席可以嗎可以可以好謝謝部長好謝謝各位謝謝"},{"start":5816.465,"end":5841.708,"text":"好 謝謝葛委員謝謝不過部長我要提醒一下剛剛葛委員講的是開放你們已經有的教材因為AI需要很多的data所以是開放你們已經開發的是否可以做這樣的一個事情那你要開發到開放他要求的是開放這樣AI才有辦法繼續學他比我們人都更想學好不好好 我們接下來我們請陳培宇委員"},{"start":5848.422,"end":5852.765,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請鄭部長 謝謝好 鄭部長好 部長早安 我們來往下看喔關於這個霸凌的事情 我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個 過去這一個禮拜就有三起 至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說 就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生 師對生霸凌 還有生對生霸凌"},{"start":5877.88,"end":5895.96,"text":"很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則"},{"start":5896.681,"end":5919.797,"text":"光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長你一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到"},{"start":5924.841,"end":5943.679,"text":"當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生施施相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝"},{"start":5945.101,"end":5961.534,"text":"現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對"},{"start":5963.976,"end":5987.075,"text":"當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠"},{"start":5988.056,"end":6000.246,"text":"這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分那我們來試算一下給部長看來部長來看一下以新平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少2500塊受理後進行調查一個人再2500塊"},{"start":6013.877,"end":6033.187,"text":"這都只是一個人喔可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每1000個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是2500元然後假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是5000塊以上甚至是破萬"},{"start":6034.307,"end":6062.004,"text":"甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會還討論這個事情所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生"},{"start":6062.944,"end":6090.31,"text":"共同在這些事件當中大家共同付出的心力這個部分所以可不可以請部長或是司長快速回應我們關於這個費用的部分目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是有沒有聽到縣市政府已經告訴你們他們遇到的困境謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五"},{"start":6091.87,"end":6112.958,"text":"每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助"},{"start":6114.418,"end":6121.625,"text":"所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題嗎可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助"},{"start":6141.042,"end":6170.137,"text":"我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查"},{"start":6170.797,"end":6189.652,"text":"其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法"},{"start":6190.433,"end":6216.04,"text":"我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從1比1200比到1比900不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說"},{"start":6217.76,"end":6217.78,"text":"有...來"},{"start":6244.715,"end":6262.461,"text":"我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理,那就送禮拜了根委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好,我們8月底之前送進立法院"},{"start":6264.752,"end":6289.409,"text":"好,我們先暫時講那剛剛那個費用的暫定啦我們期待可以更早好不好因為孩子們在學校的狀況真的非常辛苦而且孩子們對應到的其實是老師們教學上的痛苦而老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規"},{"start":6290.209,"end":6309.184,"text":"收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分"},{"start":6310.373,"end":6332.458,"text":"林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校有另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個"},{"start":6338.32,"end":6350.914,"text":"電競大賞這個頒獎的人呢他是有吸毒的那當時的體育署說並沒有同意擔任指導單位堅決反毒那當時我就拜託體育署說那是不是可以幫我們建立一個所謂不受歡迎名單"},{"start":6352.756,"end":6353.617,"text":"但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?"},{"start":6376.109,"end":6390.218,"text":"有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?"},{"start":6391.559,"end":6405.559,"text":"我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不移在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現"},{"start":6407.742,"end":6427.778,"text":"所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情"},{"start":6428.078,"end":6440.828,"text":"好像體育界的人對這些信就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4日在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經信騷啦啦隊的一個"},{"start":6442.967,"end":6464.781,"text":"我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初臺中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場指導跟指揮"},{"start":6467.082,"end":6470.803,"text":"一載一載我們會在網路上看到這些事情不斷的發生那我們就看到網民怎麼評論這件事情他說連莊盃找什麼難當主持人有夠不舒服這咖下去好嗎找正派一點人來主持很難嗎我覺得對部長來說對署長來說一定不難可是為什麼我們屢屢在現場看到這樣的狀況再跟部長看下一段影片我個人非常震撼這個影片部長先看一下"},{"start":6496.448,"end":6497.588,"text":"部長,您來自教育基層,您也當過大學校長,您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊"},{"start":6521.755,"end":6550.126,"text":"部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場師對身霸凌確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個"},{"start":6551.772,"end":6578.172,"text":"李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠"},{"start":6578.952,"end":6579.412,"text":"部長你覺得適合嗎?抱歉"},{"start":6599.502,"end":6613.877,"text":"你覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對?部長。是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思我快結束了,下一張。"},{"start":6615.856,"end":6639.318,"text":"深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去"},{"start":6640.492,"end":6664.32,"text":"也就是根本沒有發生這件事情可是體育署跟我們的回覆是這樣我要說我覺得體育署在不管在分工分組上或者是內部人員對於相關事情的意識絕對不是部長跟署長每一件事情都可以控制得到的一定有很多同仁的心態必須要積極的改變跟做出對於時代的應對所以最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了"},{"start":6665.66,"end":6684.618,"text":"在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長"},{"start":6685.239,"end":6710.966,"text":"接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝司長謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":6717.77,"end":6719.611,"text":"接下來我們請羅廷偉委員"},{"start":6741.578,"end":6742.86,"text":"謝謝委員好那我們開始囉"},{"start":6757.77,"end":6783.297,"text":"我想講今天校園霸凌以及毒品10分鐘不夠講半個小時也不夠但是很多要跟你探討近年來校園霸凌層出不窮霸凌的多樣性已經越來越讓我們感受到這個應該要予以重視也重視很多年但是都還沒辦法處理但是教育部啟動了一個修法強化防制校園霸凌的一個作為同時強化太除不適任的教師這個機制歷經一年多"},{"start":6783.777,"end":6800.703,"text":"二部新修正法規總算在113年4月19日執行本席先肯定但是有很多要建議我想首先要先對於這個高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或支遣辦法第16條第一項校事會議組成調查小組"},{"start":6803.704,"end":6820.024,"text":"各該主管機關、調查人才、推舉三倍至五倍的學者專家公學校領選三人、五人作為委員並應全部外聘偏遠地區學校外聘的調查有困難者委員有困難者學校主管機關應該給予協助"},{"start":6821.806,"end":6843.073,"text":"這部分我要跟部長來說說看這個校事調查人員的培訓是由各主管機關推派3名參加招募人員每次培訓預計100名由國教署篩選後公告名單並且培訓事宜另外就針對校園霸凌事件的專業人才的一個培訓縣市政府借派僅限以參與國教署"},{"start":6844.913,"end":6865.203,"text":"事件處理會議調查輔導人才庫的研習支成員各主管機關每梯次借派10人但不覺得專業人力推薦我們現在非常不充足嗎?調查小組應該具備專業性及公正性現在我們按照所有的培訓以及借派標準人才庫看起來絕對"},{"start":6866.784,"end":6888.35,"text":"是不足夠的本席也認為教育部應該痛地思痛盡快加速擴充調查人的一個名單但是也應該要增辦培訓場次擴充主管機關可借派的名額以致未來發生的類似事件能夠及時的引引部長我剛剛講出了一個問題您有聽到問題點嗎?有那您覺得呢?"},{"start":6892.383,"end":6915.494,"text":"確實我們現在跟委員報告我們確實現在也因應這樣的一個校式人才的校外的委員我們積極國教署在培訓這一對但是我剛剛有點出問題嘛我希望你應該偵辦相關的培訓那個場次以及借聘人員的增額嘛對不對我想我直接就跟你講啊跟我陳情的是誰台中市政府"},{"start":6916.923,"end":6944.938,"text":"台中市政府就看到問題點了所以要我一定要來跟你說希望你趕緊把這個事情給處理第二個今天的重點我們來看一下本席比較一下深深霸凌所謂的案修法前後法定其成以及失退生、校園霸凌、不當管教以及體罰修法前後的一個法定其成我們來細看一下這個表格修法前跟修法後我們來看看修法前"},{"start":6945.598,"end":6960.904,"text":"我們先看一個生對生校園霸凌防制處理的一個時程差異表修法前一樣通報24小時召開防制委員會修法前是三個工作日現在召開防制委員會你們修法後變成打XX"},{"start":6961.644,"end":6980.011,"text":"我不知道是不用成立防制委員會嗎應該不會啦齁但是你打叉叉是不需要工作日那當然好像有提升效率了但是受理通知我就想跟你請問一下我們修法前是20日內看起來是不就是含了6日"},{"start":6980.891,"end":7006.687,"text":"但是你修法後變成20個工作日所以就是不含所謂的假日那時程是不是就拉開了而且這個叫做受理通知20日跟20個工作日差距就很大囉那這樣子的一個修法你覺得是適宜嗎我們把時間拉長了欸受理通知為什麼要拉長部長您不覺得很奇怪嗎"},{"start":7008.376,"end":7035.031,"text":"您覺得這樣對嗎我想他確實是時間拉長也許因為這個校室委員的一個處理都是但是我要跟您特別報告這個也是台中市政府跟我說的他覺得很不當為什麼受理通知要20個工作日我們要接住這個受害者我們要的就是搶時間所以我覺得20日內改成20個工作日對不起我不能夠接受"},{"start":7035.751,"end":7060.121,"text":"好那現在組成處理小組為什麼又多加5個工作日我們在前面有一個召開防制委員會變成打叉叉不用時間現在呢看起來原本的是我們看第二個召開防制委員會是原本修法前是3個工作日現在呢你變叉叉可是你現在又拉成組成處理小組要5個工作日又多加了一個5個工作日這樣子的處理小組來籌組我不解"},{"start":7062.402,"end":7088.649,"text":"為什麼我們修完以後反而要多五天來處理組成小組的一個組成好我們再來看看調查所謂的調查時間兩個月必要時延長兩次每次一個月這看起來好像都沒有改變所以到目前為止我看到的深深霸凌修法前的法定期程我認為有問題的就是在這個20個工作日以及組成處理小組五個工作日"},{"start":7089.522,"end":7115.172,"text":"所以這個部分您會後可不可以給我一個時間內來做檢討是不是可以給我回應跟我們報告這一個時程的調整是經過研修小組一二十次的會議討論形成的共識我想這個是學校端反映他們在作業上確實有這樣的需求但是學校端如果我們在準則的部分其實也有賦予縣市政府可以在不抵觸法規的基礎下可以訂更詳細的規範"},{"start":7116.552,"end":7137.742,"text":"您說這個是跟學校討論過的可是我還是要講說這個也是台中市政府跟我反映他覺得把時間拉長對於孩子是沒有幫助的所以我不懂當然學校有學校端可能工作上的一個困難但是我們要考量到的是接觸受害者可是時間拉長絕對不是接觸受害者最應該做的我完全認同"},{"start":7138.602,"end":7158.731,"text":"因為當有人被霸凌的時候我們怎麼快速的接觸這個學生讓他能夠免於這個恐懼或是傷害時間說的越短我想那是越對但是我今天不是要你20個工作日變10日而是為什麼工作日跟20日內他這樣子的一個差別他橫跨了如果兩個假日的話怎麼辦"},{"start":7159.531,"end":7160.332,"text":"我們原本是從5日霸凌是3日現在統一改成7個工作日"},{"start":7177.682,"end":7202.148,"text":"7個工作日5日3日被你變成7個工作日那這個部分我就看出差異了我覺得有必要嗎好再來我們再看調查調查不當管教是30天必要時延長30天然後霸凌是兩個月221啦可是我們現在看到統一調查都改成221那你不當管教原本是3030現在變成221"},{"start":7205.441,"end":7219.645,"text":"整個時程是拉了捏二二一是兩個月延長兩次每次一個月捏原本是一個月延長必要時不得超過30日捏那我想這個時間點是不是整個又大大的拉開了部長您覺得這樣妥適嗎"},{"start":7224.318,"end":7242.578,"text":"我先跟委員報告一下延伸的過程的考慮,那待會部長跟您做個總政說明首先在校事會議這一段,七天、三天、五天這一個,以往是霸凌、不讓管教全部分開,以至於學校要啟動好幾個小組,所以那個加起來可能加起來會變成八天"},{"start":7243.799,"end":7259.751,"text":"會8天以上若總時數那現在是7天因為它合在一起了所以是低於可能會被分開進行的情形第二個您看到調查的部分有一個是30天但是實務上這兩個當時分開來的時候不但管校跟霸凌"},{"start":7260.532,"end":7288.007,"text":"都被家長申請兩次所以加起來有時候會變成三個月以上所以我們是折衷而且是朝比較有力比較嚴謹的方式做處理所以以上特別跟委員報告以前在處理這兩段的時候被組兩個小組以及兩次的啟動讓家長等太久讓學校啟動太多小組所以整併之後才一個學校能接受地方政府也好運作的方式跟委員報告細節再跟您做一個比較詳細的補充"},{"start":7289.608,"end":7306.328,"text":"但就現在來看你把兩個分開來講說把它做一個整合我可以接受這樣的說法但是內容上我覺得還可以再研議一下我想這不是這一次的修法絕對不是最終我們是不是跟縣市政府在做一個溝通考量我想本期我覺得這個修法對我來說我"},{"start":7307.91,"end":7322.872,"text":"作為一個家長我擔心的就是時間上我很粗淺的就直接看到時間拉長了那是不是有機會整合以後再縮短這個是部分我們應該去考量到了而且我還是要再次強調跟我曾情的是市政府教育局"},{"start":7323.533,"end":7344.525,"text":"那教育局也是第一線工作他們去了解去做一個普查去了解到有這樣子的問題他們覺得是可以再做一個縮減今天連教育局他都沒有說支持第一線在這樣子的一個部分他們都覺得執行上可能會拉長所以我覺得我們應該要考量到所以我想本席覺得"},{"start":7345.815,"end":7374.657,"text":"這個部分教育部能夠苦民所苦修法要能夠接住受害者部長這部分我們是不是再來做一個擇期我想這裡邊當然因為有非常多次的一個公聽會跟老師的座談就考慮到行政單位學校運作老師的呼和跟但是不要忘掉所有的考慮我們要處理的是學生受霸凌的這一個議題那我們怎麼樣來讓他更有效率的去整合我想這我們會來努力"},{"start":7375.137,"end":7403.707,"text":"其實我自己是蠻常接到校園霸凌事件不管是誤會也好不管是生對生或者是失對生我們通常遇到的家長都是非常急家長都覺得沒有作為每一個家長都可能會因為急躁這我們能夠體諒但普遍我們遇到的案件還是多數覺得時間拉太長希望能夠速戰速決因為對孩子來說每一天都是苦戰希望能夠趕緊回到正常的就是校園生活"},{"start":7404.327,"end":7423.687,"text":"所以我們希望是整合聽到了你們的說法沒關係但整合能不能縮減時數是我們要努力的這部分我希望教育部是不是一個月內來做一個台中市政府的溝通那是不是來做一個相關的檢討我們會後再來做一個討論可以嗎謝謝一個月可以嗎可以好謝謝部長"},{"start":7429.258,"end":7439.842,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝羅委員我在這邊宣布我們在等吳佩奕委員質詢完畢之後我們就會休息五分鐘 謝謝接下來我們請陳秀寶委員謝謝主席 請部長好 我們請部長委員好"},{"start":7454.679,"end":7456.061,"text":"科技始終來自於人心"},{"start":7473.32,"end":7486.285,"text":"所以沒有人文的素養沒有哲學的一個思考我覺得這對科技的文明有時候對人類的這個不一定會提供"},{"start":7489.398,"end":7500.313,"text":"我一直認為人文社會的人才包括基本的人文素養他是非常重要的他是用來支撐科技是否能夠對人類的發展能夠有所貢獻的一個關鍵"},{"start":7505.326,"end":7528.982,"text":"謝謝部長也正是因為有這樣子的一個擔憂所以今天在這邊特別要請教您AI大廠來期其實除了像AI教父黃仁勳來台引起這些轟動之外我們對於未來科技的想像發展以及潛力等等我們都其實都專注在所謂AI的領域那可以想像說學生們對於整個AI科技領域的學科一定是會覺得比較有興趣的"},{"start":7531.403,"end":7535.766,"text":"建中及北運營的人設班確定在今年退場這讓我感到非常的擔憂就像部長您剛回答的科技來自於人性AI的規範發展還是要回應社會的需求溫柔的回應社會本席並不是在今天一定要強制說教育部或是各高中要強制發展或者說把人設班開回來但是人文社會的重要性並不能在這個科技的浪潮之下被淹沒"},{"start":7558.257,"end":7558.577,"text":"接下來進入今天的專題"},{"start":7577.717,"end":7583.701,"text":"校園霸凌跟學生自殺的議題是教育委員會的委員們長期非常關心的議題針對如何的有效防制校園霸凌已經從三個屆起校園委員會也一直安排很多次的專報那潘部長在卸任前最後一次的質詢也提到說他擔任七年多的教育部長以來最大的遺憾是關於校園霸凌的議題跟學生自殺的議題沒有達成目標也呼籲各界要持續的來共同的關心"},{"start":7608.098,"end":7619.993,"text":"那部長這邊請教您喔您跟潘部長交接的時候有沒有對於這個校園霸凌跟學生自殺議題政策如何延續有沒有特別的來討論或是潘部長這邊有沒有提供他的一些建議呢"},{"start":7622.069,"end":7637.875,"text":"跟委員報告我跟潘部長有非常深厚的情誼雖然我們在因為我當時決定要上來之前事實上還是中山大學的校長所以許多校務的這一些階段性的一個結束確實也讓我壓縮了跟潘部長更多的情誼但是我們事實上是有熱線的我隨時是可以跟他情誼的"},{"start":7645.538,"end":7648.72,"text":"其實您剛才回答也透出訊息說其實您在學校的實務端在實務面應該會有蠻多的經驗針對霸凌案件其實根據教育部給本席的資料 112年的霸凌通報件數高達3257件平均一個月就有271件"},{"start":7664.528,"end":7671.974,"text":"相較於111年的1942件等於說幾乎是翻倍當然這個數據可以解讀為就是說我們現在反霸凌的意識比較提高所以我們的孩子會學會保護自己但是相對的這個確認的件數增加也表示說現在霸凌的事件真的也是增加這個讓大家都覺得非常的擔憂那我們在於校園的這個霸凌防制到底有哪個環節可以再做得更好"},{"start":7694.352,"end":7702.418,"text":"我們要教育孩子不要被霸凌但是我們也更要教育孩子不要去霸凌別人我們在教育這一端我們還能多做什麼部長您認為我想我謝謝委員的指正事實上我想我們在中小學裡面這個輔導活動的一個相關的課程我們怎麼樣來落實我一直認為人我之間人際的相處怎麼樣讓我們青少年我們學生有更多的同理心透過角色"},{"start":7723.974,"end":7728.616,"text":"當人與人之間相處有更多的能夠設身處地,我相信那一個校園霸凌裡邊他是可以減少的。"},{"start":7746.532,"end":7763.227,"text":"因為要培養這些同理心或者角色取締我們事實上在中小學有藝術人文課程我們怎麼樣透過一些戲劇的課讓這些能夠讓青少年朋友能夠更多的一些去在不同的角色裡面去"},{"start":7764.068,"end":7765.989,"text":"每個孩子都有不同的人格特質跟個性當一些比較內向的孩子遇到霸凌事件很容易發生遺憾的事情"},{"start":7792.239,"end":7811.045,"text":"我們有沒有確實的接觸這些孩子我們隨便上網去搜集一下新聞會發現現在學生傳出自殺的頻率真的非常高從五月底到現在目前新聞報導就至少可以找到四則學生輕生的新聞其中更有兩位學生是直接寫明就是因為受不了學校的霸凌而輕生"},{"start":7812.245,"end":7814.607,"text":"根據數據的統計資料顯示從106年一直到111年所有階段的自殺通報都是暴增的尤其在國小更是增加了十幾倍"},{"start":7828.22,"end":7831.405,"text":"總通報件數高達11,663件平均一天就有超過31件等於每個小時都有自殺案件的通報這是非常非常嚴重的問題提到剛才教材的部分"},{"start":7844.824,"end":7855.474,"text":"教育部的1953教育部防制校園霸凌專區本期發現裡面提供的教材教案已經很久沒有更新最近的更新是在4月18但是剪進去連結的內容是連結到2019年的舊內容"},{"start":7860.879,"end":7886.752,"text":"那上一次的更新是在2023年的2月更新的但是部長你可以看到這個教學指引以及教學媒體下載只有一千多次使用的次數非常少那根據2023年台灣兒少為歧視現況調查報告指出有近兩成的兒少表示學校沒有做任何反歧視反霸凌的教育那甚至有只有四成的兒少認為這些教育內容對於現實狀況有幫助"},{"start":7890.194,"end":7912.633,"text":"意思就是說教育部推動的這些反霸凌教育的相關內容其實是沒有貼近現實狀況也無法讓我們的孩子在面對有歧視或是有霸凌這個狀況的時候能夠沖淪的面對部長我們教育部也在今年4月中有修正了校園霸凌防制準則相關的反霸凌教材教案一定也是會做更新那請問預計什麼時候做更新"},{"start":7916.894,"end":7933.739,"text":"我想我們會加速的來做因為確實因為社會的快速變遷許多這個霸凌的樣態包含網路的霸凌我想許多的教材我們確實也應該要快速的與時俱進對與時俱進我們兒童來我們的孩子反映說反霸凌教育沒有落實以及內容不符合現實的這個問題教育部你們現在規劃如何改善"},{"start":7944.821,"end":7946.182,"text":"所以部長您理解我在這邊向您反映這個問題嗎就是我們的教材不管是說老師他們採用這個教案教材的這個並不踴躍"},{"start":7970.359,"end":7997.554,"text":"還有說孩子們他們反映到說他們學校可能沒有做這些反霸凌教育或者說他們覺得這些內容對他們來講不符合現況用不到所以我想滾動式的一個檢討跟修正是必要的那謝謝部長您也重視這個問題教育部應該要善盡職責落實反霸凌教育而且應該盡速的來演繹相關的規劃那接下來這邊部長您留步我想請法務部檢察司的郭司長"},{"start":8004.5,"end":8009.683,"text":"市長好根據教育部的統計112年的數據裡面持有販售與吸食的藥品件數總件數是483件平均一個月是有40件那從113年的1月到4月這樣子平均下來一個月也高達37件那這個部分呢市長你有什麼看法"},{"start":8025.994,"end":8047.186,"text":"有關於學生是不是有濫用毒品的問題我曾經擔任過雲林新竹與台中地檢署檢察長其實我們每季都有一個棄毒小組會議這個棄毒小組會議的組成包括有學校教育局的人員"},{"start":8050.808,"end":8070.711,"text":"以及這個我們少年隊那我們都會交代拜託我們少年隊能夠真正的跟學校能夠有所溝通對防制這個毒品入侵啊都所努力因為我們跟學校之間的溝通學校比較忌諱我們這個執法人員進入他們校園那這部分就是我們"},{"start":8071.312,"end":8072.875,"text":"所以這邊在防治我們的孩子不管是被這樣毒品吸引還是說防治這個部分我們主力還是放在校園"},{"start":8086.556,"end":8106.748,"text":"目前學生濫用藥物的大宗應該是大嘛那新興的毒品也很盛行彩虹菸等等這種複合式的毒品是防不勝防但是目前的這個情況看起來我們的教育體系對這個變化萬千的藥物看起來真的可以說是無能為力那部長請問您覺得說現在的措施我們還可以如何優化我想"},{"start":8113.888,"end":8128.298,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我其實一直認為我們怎麼樣去把一些發展性的從學校的課程包括班級我們的一個會議班會裡邊有很多的融入課程的老師多一些"},{"start":8129.399,"end":8154.129,"text":"在教材裡面能夠把這些防制校園霸凌包括民主的基本的公民的素養人權的關係人我的身體的自主性能夠適時的融入到學科的教材或者在許多的活動裡面我覺得它是會有價值的當我們這個真正的更落實的時候我相信那個霸凌它是會被降低的"},{"start":8154.189,"end":8154.77,"text":"請問這個網站的主管機關是法務還是教育?"},{"start":8170.365,"end":8197.959,"text":"是法務?這是我們法務部保護司所做的是你們的齁我們目前齁其實我知道說不管是法務部還是教育部都說我們有在推反毒教育也有做海報但是其實部長跟市長您看一下喔這個反毒大本營的網站上面有提供的毒品防制影片觀看次數是多少五個月以來是六百多人次六百多人次不是六百多人次六百多人次喔部長跟市長你覺得這樣是有成效的嗎"},{"start":8198.519,"end":8218.304,"text":"我相信說法務部跟教育部製作這樣子的反毒宣導是要讓孩子們向孩子們宣導反毒的觀念但是如果你們製作出來的影片是沒有人觀看其實也是浪費了這些資源那所以說本席在這邊要建議教育部局法務部你們要掌握孩子們觀看影片的習慣"},{"start":8219.264,"end":8231.832,"text":"用他們感興趣願意去看的方式來製作反毒的內容甚至也可以跟文化部這邊跨部會來合作我們用製作短影片的方式而且比較有趣比較生動的讓找孩子們他們熟悉的這些人物來做這樣的宣導希望說我們既然要做這樣子的反毒影片來提供給孩子讓他們"},{"start":8242.759,"end":8242.779,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":8266.937,"end":8267.577,"text":"法務部警政署"},{"start":8288.396,"end":8303.832,"text":"今天我們是進行毒品防治成效的報告那從報告的數據上看起來我們毒品防治是有成效的但是民眾可能會覺得很無感因為毒品案件不但是路邊攔查都查得到"},{"start":8305.954,"end":8323.775,"text":"甚至呢就在我們臺北市政府竟然有公務員在臺北市政府的大門口來做毒品交易所以大眾看到這個新聞當然是覺得毒品非常的唱絕啊連臺北市政府裡面都有人在販毒"},{"start":8324.936,"end":8346.418,"text":"北市府這起案件當然現在已經交給司法來處理本案的嫌犯他的毒品來源是他的男朋友他的男友那這個我覺得非常值得關注因為這不是一個個案衛福部其實有做出過分析報告女性藥物成癮者有三分之二"},{"start":8347.499,"end":8369.185,"text":"這個來源是來自於男友、同居人或者是伴侶這個跟男性的毒品來源是會很不一樣的所以我想要請問因為過去也有專家建議過我在你們的匯報資料裡面有看過有建議我們要來做性別差異化的毒品防治這個我們在實務上有沒有開始在進行了"},{"start":8370.329,"end":8385.359,"text":"呃根委員報告這個針對這個議題就是有關於這個女性伴侶對他的伴侶有這個毒癮有這個情感依附跟暴力的這個的脅迫的情況之下暴力控制的情況之下其實高檢署已經這個有幾個"},{"start":8387.64,"end":8395.604,"text":"具體措施要各地檢署來落實執行第一個就是包括結合女性藥引團體規劃緩起訴處分的這個課程簡單的講就是要讓這個藥引或毒引的女性能夠遠離她這個男伴以這個諮商其他這個有這個緩起訴的課程來讓她"},{"start":8412.352,"end":8413.633,"text":"來加強他的家庭支持跟伴侶的支持"},{"start":8440.7,"end":8444.462,"text":"再來就是開發女性藥品收容處所現在開發的9處就是為了要讓她遠離這個她的生活圈包括前面講的這個有這個毒癮的男性伴侶所以有開發9處的這個收容處所能夠安置她在這段安置她"},{"start":8462.35,"end":8479.737,"text":"再來就是有關於這個矯正機關的跟矯正機關結合的技能訓練那再來就是有關於他懷孕的期間藥引的連結地方政府能夠提供醫療的產檢以及這個醫療的服務這個現在目前我們在執行的這個狀況簡單來說是要幫助他能夠分手嗎?"},{"start":8486.599,"end":8508.872,"text":"但是分手之後心理的支持和社會的支持我們這幾年其實我們整個新世代反毒的綱領最重要的就是導入治療導入社工相關的支持要來提供所以我想這個後續我們要有一個成效的分析來看看哪些作為是有效的那台北市政府裡面有毒品交易這個駭人聽聞"},{"start":8511.867,"end":8528.407,"text":"我們甚至還有看到有些縣市是有毒品熱點像我就有收到澄清苗栗有一家阿帕契電子油液廠被查獲的毒品案件是數十次那這個判決書上面都有記載"},{"start":8530.438,"end":8538.001,"text":"很多人是約好就在阿帕契電子遊藝場裡面來買毒來販毒所以我想要詢問法務部我們對於這一種毒品的交易熱點這個可以說就熱點嗎多次發生多次查獲但是查獲之後還不斷發生毒品交易的熱點我們有沒有這個策略能夠來加強查緝"},{"start":8554.947,"end":8572.174,"text":"你們有沒有去統計這些毒品交易的熱點?毒品交易的熱點的一個查緝其實警方在掃蕩規劃的時候就不會把它規劃進去那其實就有關於毒品危害防制條例第31條之一就特定場所其實它本身被"},{"start":8572.774,"end":8573.755,"text":"市長,我想的阿帕契這一案你知不知道?"},{"start":8590.716,"end":8607.745,"text":"有沒有聽聞?因為很多傳聞說有沒有包庇的情勢為什麼多次發生多次查獲還持續發生有毒品交易的案件所以我要請你們特別去注意因為這是全國可能各縣市都有這樣相關的毒品交易熱點就我所知這一個個案他這個也是跟人家租的所以房東也相當困擾所以請你們務必"},{"start":8617.23,"end":8617.97,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":8638.939,"end":8639.4,"text":"獲得的成果在哪里?"},{"start":8650.293,"end":8675.251,"text":"我看了一下統計的數據我們毒品的高峰年最高峰那一年是在2015年也就是我們這10年來我們目前的毒品防制毒品的使用比例市長有沒有下降有下降很多而且還主連在下降著至少這樣看下來叫下降一半下降一半那這個我們持續在努力著"},{"start":8677.31,"end":8693.648,"text":"我看一下你們今天的報告有這個使用人數但我認為要看成效其實一個是這個出犯人口有沒有下降因為出犯的人是我們希望防止當出犯的人減少因為他進來之後可能後面就是一個迴旋你們有沒有出犯人口的統計"},{"start":8694.589,"end":8706.084,"text":"跟委員報告就是107年其實有關於整個偵查毒品偵查的一個收案量在107年是這個出犯的毒品是用人口是佔比23.1%但是到了這個"},{"start":8710.129,"end":8710.809,"text":"我相信這個成效是逐漸呈現的"},{"start":8731.34,"end":8744.112,"text":"甚至如果我幫你統計10年以來毒品出犯人數下降的是超過6成那還有一個要關注的指標是你的再犯率再犯率有沒有下降你們有沒有統計數字報告裡面都沒有啊"},{"start":8747.014,"end":8772.425,"text":"這個再犯率的部分應該有下降不過這個我跟你們調了資料你的毒品再犯率前第一期跟第一期相比起來一二級毒品你是下降了將近五成以上三四級毒品也下降但是反而我很關注的一個數字兒少的案件在你的下降的再犯率兒少毒品再犯率的案件下降的比例反而是"},{"start":8773.609,"end":8774.089,"text":"有關於這個追蹤他的那個適用人數的比"},{"start":8804.235,"end":8832.974,"text":"這個計劃是從111年的8月份開始執行要追蹤兩年那我們這個下降的目標值是1.5%好 我們這個兒少毒品防制少福會很重要所以我要請問警政署因為少福會我們一直關切的是人力不足開案數太少那之前你們告訴我們說人力要來補充我們少福會的社工嘛我們今年的補充人數有沒有補足了呢"},{"start":8834.515,"end":8835.356,"text":"我們有沒有預計人力要再來提升?"},{"start":8854.669,"end":8881.589,"text":"目前階段性補充到底人力補充之後我們要看你們的優惠的成果很重要的是我看我們在去年12月毒品防制會報當中警政署提到現行非在學者施用第三次級毒品是由你們少府會來做輔導那如果是在學的話如果在學是由學校來做輔導那相關的分工你們要再跟教育部來進行協調"},{"start":8883.729,"end":8901.443,"text":"坦白說我看到這個報告相當壓抑因為少府會新制去年上路嘛對不對上路之前我們已經籌備了三四年了欸少府會新制最重要的就是做橫向的溝通協調平台這個問題怎麼會等到上路之後才要再來協調我現在請問跟教育部協調了沒有"},{"start":8904.213,"end":8913.636,"text":"目前我們三四級毒品就是由我們少福會來做輔導那另外在校學生呢有春暉專案我們會利用春暉專案還有另外也是由少福會來進行輔導另外本署在這個專案報告裡面有書面資料有提到我們有進行三個層級的互相聯訪就情資會互換包括一些這個相互情資然後這個也會期前這個把相關的情資給這個教育單位來做一個期前的輔導我想相關的聯繫機制是目前是"},{"start":8933.322,"end":8933.602,"text":"接下來我們休息5分鐘"},{"start":9255.267,"end":9258.769,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請林怡瑾委員謝謝主席 有請教育部鄭部長．法務部郭司長．還有我們警政署蔡正堅．國教署彭署長好 我們請四位 謝謝"},{"start":9283.089,"end":9305.82,"text":"先請教彭署長國教署那個指導運作的一個社團法人台灣應用行為分析協會根據民眾反映他們的視訊會議系統是用的是騰訊VOV請問署長這是不是中國的軟體那國教署指導的團體用中國軟體是不是非常不妥署長"},{"start":9309.181,"end":9310.462,"text":"您認為用這種中國軟體是非常的不妥適吧?"},{"start":9326.09,"end":9339.925,"text":"相關的規範都要按照中央以及我們資科室有相關的規範來辦理好好好謝謝謝謝署長那署長你請回我是我是很深切認為說其實我們一定要避免這種中國或中資軟體的使用啦因為我們防範我們隨時所產生的這種資安的風險"},{"start":9346.773,"end":9346.813,"text":"主席"},{"start":9366.653,"end":9392.632,"text":"學生們對於常見的毒品外貌都有個概念像說K-Tamina、安非他命或參有毒品粉末的這種咖啡包等等在教育聯合警政跟衛生單位的訓導下大家對這些東西都會有些警覺所以我們從警政署數據上也可以看到去年查獲的少年毒品犯3417人"},{"start":9395.894,"end":9419.963,"text":"比20192019減少了2200多人少了39.8%那就是看得出成效那不過我想近幾年最危險的地方還是在毒品換了個新的形式進入校園部長不曉得你知不知道有彩虹煙這種毒品就是或者是說藏了毒品在電子煙煙彈這回事部長你有沒有聽過"},{"start":9421.7,"end":9449.875,"text":"跟委員報告我是有聽過有聽過那沒錯就是說在這種防制毒品上傳統的這種杜絕的手段我們漸漸有了成果但是在新興的手法上再加上網路的發達加劇這種幽微不明的這種販售現象那所謂的彩虹衣跟藏毒品在這種電子煙煙彈裡面又是另一個現在進行式的危機所以現在我們毒販直接將各種"},{"start":9450.595,"end":9450.615,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":9474.184,"end":9477.427,"text":"但學生很可能透過抖音等等這種管道去購買到而且我們私下是很難查緝到他們所謂口中有趣的東西所以透過同儕間的模仿反應越來越多青少年會誤觸這種新興毒品的風險"},{"start":9501.027,"end":9515.876,"text":"那有關於這部分先是政府跟先是政府的教育局跟警察局單位的聯合查詢就變得非常的重要那尤其我要鄭重的這個建議在相關單位接獲通報後應主動出擊網"},{"start":9519.278,"end":9547.961,"text":"上去追溯來源而且要更積極地進行所謂的網路的巡查去杜絕這種新興的毒品在今天少年教育的可能那在彩虹煙跟毒品煙袋這種使用的興起下本市有個疑問在於說這種非法轉讓混毒的這種煙品究竟是應該要依照這個煙害防治法送辦還是用毒品"},{"start":9548.981,"end":9566.007,"text":"為害防制條例來送辦那因為它涉及的罰則前者只有罰緩那後者是有期徒刑所以請教教育部、法務部或警政署就是對於加強茶器這種新鮮菸品的適用法律為什麼那你們的看法怎樣但你先請法務部好了還是教育部謝謝委員的指正雖然它不是我的一個專業但是我"},{"start":9578.537,"end":9598.688,"text":"對這個我是有一些想法的當然我們這個受教的這個青少年在許多的學習過程我們給予教導然後也希望給一些機會但是我會希望從源頭裡邊如果有系統性的在吸收不管是這個煙毒或者這些校園的黑幫"},{"start":9599.667,"end":9602.33,"text":"好 那我們請法院部就說到底要用嚴害防治法還是毒品危害條例"},{"start":9619.69,"end":9641.488,"text":"委員跟委員報告有關於電子煙本身電子煙本身它其實一個載體電子煙本身其實是違反煙害防制條例它只有行政處罰而已但是如果加進了煙彈有這個大麻或者是其他卡西銅類的毒品等等那就要看它是第幾"},{"start":9642.368,"end":9670.001,"text":"的毒品那就用第幾級毒品毒品危害防治條例來處罰那剛剛委員剛剛提到有關伊東米子的部分伊東米子其實我們在3月28號我們的毒品審議委員會已經第一次預告就是預警有這個毒品出現這個品項出現所以在三個月收集之後我們在明天就將要把它可能列為因為這要毒品審議委員審議過"},{"start":9671.822,"end":9695.692,"text":"將列為三級的毒品來管制以上跟委員報告好那當然啦齁如果在這個其他藥品就是所謂成癮性的藥品尚未列管為管制毒品可是同時他也混在煙彈裡面齁那這種情形下那我覺得還是要去注意跟委員報告其實我們台高檢在去年的12月"},{"start":9696.432,"end":9712.657,"text":"我記得是12月就有已經成立的預警平台也就是說各查緝單位發現可能有先驅物品是為製毒顏料的時候就先預告這個可能具有製成毒品的未來性就會提報到我們獨審會法務獨審會來審議以上報告是"},{"start":9718,"end":9728.269,"text":"接下來想談談管制藥品濫用的問題因為某些身心症的患者他因為病況而需要服用史蒂諾斯或利他能等藥品那這些藥品如果沒有經過醫生的處方間他是不可能會有的"},{"start":9735.416,"end":9740.178,"text":"可是他經過醫生處罰間開例之後會私下互相轉讓其實這是違法的那學生們可能會因為說我覺得吃了醫生開的利他能可以集中精神那加強課業可是他拿了這些藥偷偷給了朋友一兩顆那這個看似為不足道的行為都是違法的那所以光是利他能這種非法轉讓"},{"start":9761.225,"end":9776.138,"text":"而觸犯毒品危害的這個防制條例查到了30多筆的公開判決所以請問部長我們要如何在校園加強宣導管制藥品不得任意轉讓這件事情部長"},{"start":9777.231,"end":9802.246,"text":"是的 謝謝我想這還是要從我們親師座談還有許多的家長的一些這個去加強宣導讓加強宣導那另外還有在課程我剛才講融入到許多的輔導的課程或者一些相關的活動讓同學知道這一個一方面他是用來治療用的但是他怎麼樣去緊鎖分際而不變成一個"},{"start":9804.147,"end":9822.553,"text":"好像開玩笑式的或者一個買賣的行為我想這是不應該被鼓勵而且應該被禁止的好那再來本席就要跟部長請教就是說你有沒有關注到潘文忠部長在立法院來的最後一次的備詢他那天的詢答中陳培育委員有問到在潘部長任內"},{"start":9825.794,"end":9846.305,"text":"是否有遺憾未完成但是會放在交接名單前三名的工作項目那潘部長回答說像是校園霸凌、校園安全都是他認為很重要的工作那並且教育部也已經完成學生輔導法的草案整理那現在在各方的意見還在整合中"},{"start":9847.245,"end":9869.738,"text":"我想掌握學生身心的健康﹐充分了解學生的處境﹐並給予相應的協助同時這也是我們今天專報的重點之一學生輔導法修訂是本席一路從上個任期關注到現在的一個很大的題目這個會幾位已經提出了法案我想教育部的草案版本也磨了很久了"},{"start":9870.838,"end":9897.057,"text":"我想說如果能夠趕快送到立法院來我們就可以儘早排審讓今天大家憂心的校園問題可以透過有一個修正調整過後的制度可以利用據本席瞭解就是學生輔導法在上屆的立委任期內教育部跟行政院間光是溝通法案來來回回改了四個版本請問部長目前院版的學生輔導法修正草案是否還是那麼難產"},{"start":9898.358,"end":9923.633,"text":"那跟行政院的溝通到底怎麼樣那部長剛剛有回應說八月會送到立法院那麼本席在這裡要提出一個要求就是說送進立法院的法案版本一定要充分採納第一線輔導諮商專業者的意見那不要忽視這個輔導諮商專業學會跟工會的聯合聲明教育部不曉得你的看法如何"},{"start":9925.233,"end":9946.461,"text":"謝謝委員我想剛才包含我們召委也特別也主席也都特別提到那我們學生輔導法確實我們原來也一直積極希望能夠潘前部長也特別提到學生輔導法是一個重中之重應該要先優先處理那目前在大學端那個部分已經有共識而且已經有50%的大學已經在做了"},{"start":9948.942,"end":9949.062,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":9975.355,"end":9995.211,"text":"謝謝部長,我還是提醒部長,就我理解,我會在7月的時候就排審,不好意思,好,謝謝行政院做法怎麼樣,我們7月間排審,請行政院加率做部上去年的4月到現在已經給行政院非常多的時間了,如果行政院不送案進來,本席直接排審,謝謝謝謝部長,請回座,來接下來我們請我們的郭育晴委員"},{"start":10007.092,"end":10011.176,"text":"謝謝主席,辛苦了,有請部長不好意思,部長,謝謝"},{"start":10018.78,"end":10019.22,"text":"邀請教育部長鄭英耀、法務部警政署列席"},{"start":10042.351,"end":10058.768,"text":"在當時其實性騷了女學生那當時其實在2023年的五月份的時候那麼台師大他們特別重啟了這個調查的案件並對這位老師他做出了暫時停聘的一個處置"},{"start":10060.489,"end":10088.782,"text":"但是因為到暫停處置的這個部分一直到現在其實教育部有沒有在針對台師大校方所謂的停聘三年的一個處置有沒有做一個比較明確的一個表態因為現在其實在DECA就是在這個論壇上面其實學生蠻恐慌的他們也表示很怕狼獅又要回來了因為這個停聘的這個那我想這個部分是不是請教育部這邊先事先來做一個說明"},{"start":10089.955,"end":10111.768,"text":"是的,謝謝委員關心有關學生權益包括性品的一個議題這個案例確實師大做了一個決議對這個老師因為這個調查這個不是就是說他有他一定的嚴重性所以師大也做了一個三年的一個這個停聘的這樣的一個處置"},{"start":10114.409,"end":10135.289,"text":"那當然就教育部的一個立場我們把這樣的一個文又請師大的這個校教評會再重新考量是不是能夠重新考量的意思是就針對這一個他並不是屬於一個輕微而且有嚴重性的這樣一個我們希望能夠這一個校教評會再斟酌能夠令為釋法性的一個處分"},{"start":10139.173,"end":10157.81,"text":"就是說不只是停聘,有可能要是完全離開這個校園?中生停聘還是說有一個比較嚴苛的還是怎麼樣當然這裡邊我們還是尊重大學自主但是學生的受教學院當然不能容被打折"},{"start":10158.931,"end":10179.399,"text":"所以目前教育部就是把這個臺師大的這個這個報告的這個部分其實希望他們再做一個更更神聖的一個演繹就對了好那我們希望這個狼獅能夠離開校園然後好那接下來我們進入到今天的這個效率校園霸凌的一個部分啊那我們可以從這個教育部的統計的資料上面看到就是110"},{"start":10180.339,"end":10181.54,"text":"我們發現另外兩種霸凌的形態是有增而無減就是在於言語霸凌跟網路的一個霸凌"},{"start":10201.395,"end":10216.221,"text":"我想不管是師對生或者是生對生這個部分其實在我們的言語霸凌跟網路霸凌的事件當中其實是比例是增高的那現在還有另外一種狀況我們鼓勵孩子能夠說出來他們被霸凌"},{"start":10219.522,"end":10219.642,"text":"甚至於種族"},{"start":10243.607,"end":10258.458,"text":"甚至還有一成的兒少他們會認為自己的所謂的性別的氣質是跟別人是與眾不同的這也有可能會被當成生對生或者失對生產生所謂的為歧視為霸凌的一個狀況的現象所以其實我們在這個部分我們是想要請教一下教育部我們怎麼樣因為我們聽到有太多類似的例子在我們的身邊周遭那我想前一陣子呢這個藝人楊皓如"},{"start":10272.329,"end":10272.87,"text":"主席的女兒"},{"start":10290.612,"end":10308.975,"text":"的確是有一些些不妥但是我們怎麼樣針對教育部怎麼樣去協助這個第一線的老師來做這方面的一些因應不要讓老師也成為所謂的第一線有可能所謂的為歧視或為霸凌的一個加害者這個部分教育部有沒有什麼樣的一個因應的措施"},{"start":10309.948,"end":10329.225,"text":"謝謝委員關心,確實這樣的一個危機是我們在過去在學術界也有這個把它歸納它是一個關係的一個霸凌從語言上的一個冷漠忽略或者酸言酸語這樣的一個方式那我還是認為我們怎麼樣再從落實在班級的輔導"},{"start":10330.486,"end":10330.806,"text":"我相信他是能夠有效"},{"start":10356.19,"end":10375.022,"text":"我想現在其實就是剛剛有很多的委員也特別提到包含我們的教委也特別提到這學輔法的一個部分然後這個輔導人員能力不足的部分其實我們一直都在關心那我們當然知道第一線的老師他們在面臨一般的所謂的學生大概二三十個"},{"start":10375.782,"end":10376.262,"text":"對老師的一個心理的一個支持包括他們"},{"start":10400.669,"end":10401.91,"text":"我們看到了疑似所謂的霸凌的一個案件"},{"start":10425.546,"end":10444.22,"text":"所謂的疑似就是他有通報疑似的霸凌的案件但最後我們呈案數也就是說最後被確認數其實那個比例是非常低但是他的報案量也就是說他被學生或者是被老師認定他是所謂的校園的"},{"start":10446.101,"end":10447.322,"text":"但確認數確是逐年的下滑但我要想要問另外一個問題就是"},{"start":10475.194,"end":10501.741,"text":"前陣子我看到了這個桃園的私立的高中的一段影片是女生霸凌女生當場就是要剪頭髮校方處理的態度是說雙方家長已經和解雙方已經和解這明顯的跟被霸凌者他們家長所說出來的是完全不一樣的校方的態度非常非常的重要我們發現了有很多霸凌的事件在校方處理的態度積極與否"},{"start":10504.782,"end":10522.95,"text":"決定了這孩子他將來的一個狀況因為自殺率是提高的我們必須講很殘忍的數字尤其是衛福部他們是在2023年的年底2024年的1月他特別有統計過這三年來自殺率的兒少的"},{"start":10523.49,"end":10523.73,"text":"請教育部長"},{"start":10544.745,"end":10573.592,"text":"是的我想原來疑似的部分就如果是霸凌或者攻擊那很明確的造成傷害大概就認定上比較不會有一些問題但青少年在有許多的一些嬉戲或者當然他有模糊的界線所以他可能會有造成這一個疑似到這一個判定上他會減少但我有非常同意委員所說的如果"},{"start":10574.412,"end":10574.452,"text":"當然,這是..."},{"start":10595.612,"end":10624.872,"text":"那個就歷史終結就進入到這一個我們這一個我比較想要表達的意見就是說既然學校的霸凌有可能會導致孩子自傷或者是自殘甚至於所謂的自殺的一個這個狀況那我想自殺的預防這個在校園的推廣是極為重要那既然是要預防為前提可是就當學校的老師第一線老師說"},{"start":10626.072,"end":10627.313,"text":"我希望我們必須要來加強老師的這個側畫面的一些"},{"start":10646.664,"end":10649.707,"text":"委員可以隨時把這個對教育部的期待指正隨時讓我們知道沒有問題 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":10674.96,"end":10678.787,"text":"好,謝謝郭委員接下來我們請葉元智委員我們請部長,謝謝好,我們請鄭部長"},{"start":10694.955,"end":10709.823,"text":"部長你好我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上做的狀況比如說以毒品我們有講到就是學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案吧部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面實施大概狀況怎樣"},{"start":10714.209,"end":10734.468,"text":"我知道他是在針對毒品上的一個事實但是沒關係部長這個我跟你反映因為你剛來啦而且你是出身高教可能對於國中、高中、國小不是那麼了解我跟你報告村會專案在國中裡面大概他能夠做的就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿就這樣他們能做就這樣"},{"start":10738.983,"end":10754.969,"text":"這會衍生出一個問題比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的"},{"start":10756.249,"end":10772.872,"text":"所以我第一個我希望說部長因為剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據"},{"start":10774.173,"end":10794.267,"text":"為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制"},{"start":10805.499,"end":10820.206,"text":"接下來學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定它是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌"},{"start":10820.851,"end":10846.521,"text":"他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話"},{"start":10849.026,"end":10870.471,"text":"會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?"},{"start":10873.697,"end":10899.166,"text":"他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊"},{"start":10900.526,"end":10911.979,"text":"可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題"},{"start":10913.836,"end":10939.706,"text":"確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力這個我沒有討論到現在就是討論說已經發生了確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同"},{"start":10940.326,"end":10956.016,"text":"這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊"},{"start":10957.993,"end":10981.77,"text":"就是那種心理的壓力那種情緒的壓抑那個是很難部長你可能你沒有遇到的人是很難了解的所以我們作為一個教育單位我們怎麼去幫助家長去克服這個過程嘛是不是嗎是部長你認同嗎我同意那是不是可以去了解一下這個校事會議的時間處理的狀況然後去做一個比較"},{"start":10983.103,"end":11003.44,"text":"更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理"},{"start":11005.736,"end":11012.581,"text":"學校也會覺得負擔有點重我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能"},{"start":11036.057,"end":11038.501,"text":"每半年大概學校會做一次霸凌調查"},{"start":11051.721,"end":11052.662,"text":"我之前曾經很關心校園安全"},{"start":11081.363,"end":11086.589,"text":"因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行"},{"start":11088.106,"end":11111.191,"text":"所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學生有問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校"},{"start":11112.878,"end":11121.309,"text":"我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長"},{"start":11128.197,"end":11150.414,"text":"都是代理老師,你知道這個狀況嗎?我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師?因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是,那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題?是兩個建議,第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師,特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以?"},{"start":11151.53,"end":11179.045,"text":"他做了一個就正式老師很多不願意做的事嘛他要面對要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水待遇上他是比較專任老師"},{"start":11180.285,"end":11203.821,"text":"我剛講是生肖組長生肖組長他有的一個主管的一個組你再去了解一下生肖組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛 對不對你要去了解問題嘛那我剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛 對不對然後再來喔之前我曾經有提過啦國中能不能比照高中"},{"start":11204.878,"end":11222.218,"text":"成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案啦但是教育部也是隨便回我啦那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況"},{"start":11223.419,"end":11238.341,"text":"那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好"},{"start":11238.601,"end":11262.949,"text":"我想怎樣去讓一個友善跟安全的校園環境提供老師不僅學生的安全學習老師的一個放安心教學我想那是我們努力的目的我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好這個下次我再來問部長還有啊"},{"start":11264.489,"end":11291.959,"text":"現在老師講說在學校記校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被記校規為什麼因為記大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校記了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了記大過還要寫報告記學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規記了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎"},{"start":11293.12,"end":11321.389,"text":"要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記得十個大過要嘛他就待在原來的學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題"},{"start":11323.009,"end":11337.581,"text":"那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有任何阻力啊"},{"start":11339.114,"end":11365.683,"text":"我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員"},{"start":11368.8,"end":11376.665,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝葉元智委員接下來我們請吳村成委員 謝謝我們請鄭部長 有請鄭部長好 鄭部長 謝謝"},{"start":11392.932,"end":11411.698,"text":"部長,上任應該三個星期了,應該駕輕就熟,進入狀況中了,應該可以看得出來,特別是像今天在談新世代"},{"start":11412.813,"end":11413.754,"text":"有什麼根本解方嗎?"},{"start":11431.829,"end":11454.698,"text":"我想教育這一個人才培育是國家的希望那當然不能只靠學校教育我們需要家庭教育也需要社會大眾多一份對學校教育的一個支持謝謝所以呢對這個部長這個觀念就跟我不謀而合就像現在"},{"start":11455.638,"end":11456.339,"text":"委員長鄭英耀"},{"start":11475.814,"end":11493.243,"text":"整個家庭教育這個就代溝越加的嚴重所以這是一個整體的啦這整體所以呢我在提的這個壯世代裡面特別提到是高齡化與少子化的雙解方其實這事情是議題之兩面"},{"start":11495.484,"end":11511.733,"text":"我們不可能去放棄到另外三分之一的越來越多的高齡化的這一群人讓他跟社會脫節然後去致力解決另外三分之一的人是不可能的所以呢你為什麼會成出不窮的困境"},{"start":11512.994,"end":11540.266,"text":"永無止境的惡性循環越來越嚴重部長也知道上次在5月31日行政院長總質詢的時候我有提出壯世代的質詢部長也有上台備詢那一次院長有答應成立行政院的壯世代專案小組"},{"start":11541.827,"end":11559.329,"text":"所以當然在這裡面教育部也納在這個小組裡面所以這個應該是願你肯定要推動的政策所以這個那我也看到這個部長在接受媒體採訪的時候有一段話"},{"start":11560.97,"end":11583.202,"text":"你說大家都在招18歲的學生那希望能夠推動讓30歲以上的人口能更自由的進出高等教育進行終身教育我想這是你的理念嘛就是我們過去就像大學就是18歲在念的那沒有看到這麼多的空間其他的好像置之不管"},{"start":11584.022,"end":11591.807,"text":"所以部長有這樣的理念所以我也希望寄望於你啦啟動第三人生大學是你的使命"},{"start":11593.444,"end":11621.225,"text":"那也很感謝這個其實這四個月來我一直纏著教育部這一個對第三人生大學的推動那也有給我一個正式的回函那對於這份回函我是給予肯定可以看得出教育部是有用心的不是敷衍一下的是有在進行但是我現在還是要繼續的把這件事情落實"},{"start":11624.187,"end":11650.059,"text":"希望鄭部長延續之前的承諾繼續來推動第三人生大學因為我相信你剛上來這個太多的事物要理解的不過我也請這個部長對這個議題重中之重這個議題會解決到教育部太多的問題所以希望而且是有800萬的壯士代因應期待對部長你的期待"},{"start":11652.557,"end":11672.912,"text":"在這份回覆當中教育部提出第三人生大學有三個階段第一個就是短期委託專業團隊進行第三人生大學核心課程模組的研發那中期開始規劃第三人生大學的試辦計畫"},{"start":11674.733,"end":11694.561,"text":"那長期呢可以第三人稱大學與學位的銜接那有提出一個短中期的計畫那但是在這裡我沒有看到時程跟這個如何落實可以看出來理念上是有納入這個部裡的規劃所以呢"},{"start":11700.593,"end":11724.011,"text":"我要給部長、部理面提供一些建議短期規劃當中主要在核心課程的模組研發在這裡我要特別提醒教育部千萬要了解壯世代的概念不要侷限在勒領銀髮的思維因為"},{"start":11727.515,"end":11746.886,"text":"所以要請相關的同仁這個狀態的相關的文章已經非常多了成千上萬的在網路上都有務必要去研讀要去了解如果不夠的話請跟我接洽好不好我非常樂意去上課"},{"start":11749.579,"end":11775.61,"text":"現在很多醫學都在證明老人不是沒有用的像這個華盛頓的醫學裡面他研究說首領的大腦左右半球的互動變得更和諧他的創意跟智能持續在躍進創作力可能比年輕人更強通常會覺得年紀大沒有創意但是這裡說創作力可能更強"},{"start":11777.15,"end":11791.78,"text":"第二點是首領大腦雖然不如年輕的時候快但是靈活性會提升而且能夠做出正確的決定而且比較少受到負面情緒的影響人類的智力活動高峰出現在60到80歲之間那我覺得"},{"start":11795.822,"end":11808.387,"text":"我們通常我就要翻轉這個觀念就覺得很多人包括自己就覺得60歲老了不好啦所以這個教育部要教育他們你很棒要給他加油"},{"start":11811.531,"end":11828.084,"text":"首先就是這個要翻轉這個啦我看到現在真的很多的都是因法族思維要把它翻轉到壯世代的思維那完全不一樣這兩個是完全不同的設定那這教育部非常重要的教育工作"},{"start":11829.364,"end":11852.552,"text":"其實他們人生追求不一樣,過去的人就搶人生那到了第三人生,第三人生在追求什麼首先要建立他的哲學基礎我們人類的知識只有到第二人生而已第三人生是一片空白那教育在這方面的研究在追求自我實現那有關這個我想教育部的專家非常多要來致力追求這個"},{"start":11855.443,"end":11870.221,"text":"首先在做這個之前不要憑空想像要針對壯世代的需求來做調查其實我們在民間已經也在進行這個工作很多了我有提出一個80項需求大調查"},{"start":11871.422,"end":11895.027,"text":"這目前在進行中當然我們民間的力量很有限像教育部如果有的話可以啦你們也要更專注的研究以後瞭解他們不然你憑空想像都是因法族的需求所以這一個的調查我在進行那這個像工商司法提出來他是可以捲起千堆血他不是我們的負擔跟依賴"},{"start":11897.285,"end":11921.716,"text":"第二個中間的中段當中就是事辦事辦當中目前的回覆裡面有提出社區大學、樂嶺大學、空中大學還有面臨轉型挑戰的大專院校優先徵詢我覺得這個一定要跳脫這種樂嶺大學、社區大學這種概念不是把他們的課程改良一下就好了因為它是全然不同的"},{"start":11922.376,"end":11943.669,"text":"所以我倒是會覺得這些面臨轉型的這些大學不要輔導待退而能夠積極的轉型他來做這個第三人生大學給他一條生路那像現在也可以看得出來因為少子化目前已經用12所那預計8年之內會再導致10所大學那不要只是輔導待退"},{"start":11944.91,"end":11967.908,"text":"而不是把他輔導這個積極的轉型因為其實這也不是他的錯不是他的學校有問題、設備有問題而是因為少子化招不到學生嘛那開放第三人稱大學有300萬人要報名啊你為什麼這可以救他們啊為什麼不積極的所以這不能拖延積極的同時解決給壯世代的希望同時解決這些高校的問題"},{"start":11970.049,"end":11989.479,"text":"長程的規劃就是跟這個學位的銜接但是這個不要變成長期我希望能夠更加快而且這個也不是那些被淘汰的如果那個未來的頂端的高級大學的這些優秀的大學也都應該要去朝向這一方面的開放"},{"start":11993.174,"end":12012.492,"text":"所以最後我要請部長是否因為這個的想法應該都有我非常肯定但是現在對執行的做法還有時間表這樣子的一個架構是不是能夠在一個月之內對短中長期這樣子的提供給本席"},{"start":12013.573,"end":12037.257,"text":"我想謝謝委員的質詢我們會來在一個月內提出來因為委員所勾勒的那個圖像事實上跟我們的想像是一樣的我們也在做滾動式的修正我相信他未來不應該只是樂齡大學社區大學空大他應該在一般大學裡面就應該看到一個人生的一個轉換或者許多的一個更豐富的"},{"start":12037.637,"end":12040.659,"text":"本委員會今天最有激發人心的就是告訴我們60歲到80歲是具有智慧是最高的好不好這完全挑戰我的認知心理學通常25歲之後記憶力就下降了請接受這個事實好嗎好"},{"start":12067.897,"end":12074.943,"text":"我們在張雅琳委員質詢完畢之後呢我們進行三個臨時提案的處理那我們接下來請張雅琳委員謝謝有請部長跟警政署好部長跟警政署謝謝"},{"start":12095.095,"end":12116.914,"text":"早安,就是說今天我想要來針對於這個青少年的部分來跟部長跟大家來做一個討論就是說我們現在雖然說從很多的數字不管從警政署或是校安通報的數字我們好像那個青少年使用的毒品的人口都在下降但是我其實也有看到一個107年食藥署的全國物質使用調查"},{"start":12117.995,"end":12143.38,"text":"他說呢第一個我們現在使用的形態非常多元所以這個是一個問題第二個問題是大多數使用的地方都在同學或朋友家裡也就是說他不是消音通報會統計到的校園他也不是青春專案會掃蕩到的KTV、網咖、夜店都不是那這個地方家內使用的數字我們現在是有掌握的嗎"},{"start":12144.5,"end":12156.125,"text":"我想要了解在這個部分因為我們這樣子要怎麼去說我們使用的人口是下降的因為搞不好他是不是在家裡我們根本都沒有看到都沒有捕獲到對 所以我想要知道我們怎麼去掌握這些家內使用的狀態"},{"start":12157.957,"end":12179.631,"text":"目前我們教育部掌握到有關涉毒的學生人數除了一部分是由警方查獲的以外有另外一部分是經由學校特定學生提報做尿塞經過檢驗之後發現是陽性的而列入村會輔導的個案那有少部分的學生是因為自己感到困擾主動向師長求助我們列入輔導的個案"},{"start":12181.313,"end":12202.255,"text":"現在看起來好像都是學生有覺察或是我們發現學生有異狀然後我們邀請他來做嘛那我想要知道就是說我們如何去判斷學生有異狀這件事情因為我看到我們的報告裡面都一直有想說我們有掌握這些高風險的我們是有些篩選機制讓學老師們有意識嗎或是讓同學有意識我們做這塊的宣導是嗎"},{"start":12203.769,"end":12232.299,"text":"先說明如果學生有涉毒的情況可能會出現精神狀態不佳比如說倦怠或者情緒高漲這樣的異常的狀況或者是出現異常的比如說出手突然變得很闊綽之類的這些異常的狀況都很有可能是學校會把它提報為特定學生那另外就是有一部分的學生可能是中離中錯或者休學之後返校復學這些個案我們也都會提報為特定學生進行尿塞"},{"start":12233.158,"end":12250.797,"text":"那這個尿塞的頻率是多?頻率是?尿塞的部分分成兩種一種就是他如果是中離中錯休學就在他回學校的時候就做處理那如果不是這種情況是屬於一般的狀況就是當學生發現異常的時候就可以來做處理"},{"start":12252.423,"end":12268.113,"text":"接下來我們就直接跳到第二個問題就是新型態的毒品其實是越來越多元那這個像這個喵喵3年內奪去了205命那我想要知道說我們現在做的這些尿酸尿檢是新型態的毒品都能夠掌握得到嗎?"},{"start":12269.141,"end":12286.747,"text":"我們目前查獲的個案當中還包括尿塞查獲個案統計前五大當中像新型毒品是混合型的或者彩虹菸這個其實都在前五排名之內所以其實對這樣新型態的部分我們在查獲的個案是有發現的而且比例不低"},{"start":12289.329,"end":12315.09,"text":"這部分我肯定教育部的努力再來我有一個問題我們說人數都在下降可是我發現一個數字很奇怪國小現在才到四月以前一整年大概二到四案可是現在一到四月才四個月已經三案那是我如果這樣去推算我們今年的人數可能就會超過過去的新高那到底發生了什麼事情在國小端我們的掌握是什麼"},{"start":12316.448,"end":12319.711,"text":"我們現在在國小的作為是什麼?因為這個數字這樣看起來是非常不樂觀"},{"start":12339.872,"end":12363.007,"text":"我們就是跟委員報告我們現在國小階段最主要的採訪是入班宣導每一個班都要有村會職工或者輔導老師進去做宣導會教小朋友辨識奶茶包、咖啡包甚至油票甚至軟糖都有可能是所以不要吃任何陌生人提供給他或者是不是我們所熟悉的食品東西否則就有可能誤食"},{"start":12364.002,"end":12366.003,"text":"我們現在在國小跟國中的部分其實入班宣導的部分比例都有達到百分之百"},{"start":12385.596,"end":12396.065,"text":"我們為了確定成效其實我們有做學生的抽樣的問卷調查了解學生是不是有接獲毒品造成的危害等等的資訊每年都有定期調查其實那個百分比都有在提高以目前最近一次的調查來講大概有達到95%還有5%的學生是沒有收到這樣的訊息"},{"start":12407.894,"end":12427.843,"text":"接下來每一季如果有做這個小學的濫用統計的話都提到我辦公室我想要知道這個趨勢有沒有因為我們有所作為而有下降那再來就是說因為其實大多數使用的都在同學家大八成的小朋友拿到毒品都是透過朋友我們應該如何介入這些用毒青少年的同儕網路"},{"start":12429.544,"end":12449.394,"text":"我先講這個就是說我們現在雖然有做陸班選導但我只是在思考一件事情那我就提供給教育部來做參考我們是不是可以建立一個匿名通報的機制因為其實我知道小朋友彼此都會說欸我知道哪一班有這件事情那我們是不是有個這樣子的機制可以來做使用第二個再來就是說因為是朋友可是我們現在所"},{"start":12450.094,"end":12476.196,"text":"提供的這些宣導單章裡面我們都是跟他講勇於拒絕不要輕易嘗試可是朋友之間就會說啊你試一下啦沒關係啦這樣子的話術我們先提供這個話術根本沒有幫助他可以拒絕是不是可以找兒少代表一起來討論我們現在這些宣傳單章要怎麼樣才可以真正的貼近他們的環境讓他們可以真的遠離毒害這件事情可不可以做得到我們在兒少代表的部分來討論"},{"start":12479.545,"end":12483.007,"text":"我們會來努力邀請二十二個來參與討論跟委員報告其實我們過去有考慮到如何讓學生關注這個議題他們自己來討論如何來拒絕毒品所以我們其實也有辦理微電影的競賽就是希望學生他們參與他們會找他們有興趣的題材跟情境"},{"start":12498.158,"end":12500.14,"text":"我們過去在處理的時候比較沒有特別邀請耳哨代表來討論"},{"start":12516.032,"end":12545.732,"text":"好,這個部分就麻煩我希望我們可以找得上一起來討論好不好那再來就是說因為其實還有講就是說當他今天使用的時候除了學校要注意之外另外一個就是家庭那我也知道學校教育部其實這邊也有做一些相關的這些家庭的一些家庭教育中心啦或是一些社區的活動那這些場次跟經費是不是都可以會後提供給我讓我了解一下還是你們現在已經有確切的一些場次跟數據可以現在有嗎"},{"start":12547.479,"end":12547.76,"text":"舉舉辦多少場次?"},{"start":12549.318,"end":12576.414,"text":"跟委員報告現在手上沒有這個資訊好沒關係那會後提供給我齁因為其實這個跟如何第一個協助他不要進入這個毒害的領域第二個就是當他離開之後我們要怎麼樣子讓家庭可以協助他因為這是避免他再犯的齁所以再來這個施用毒品再犯防治統治的計畫我目前只有看到109年內有沒有更新的數據啊這個數據到底是誰可以提供給我"},{"start":12578.881,"end":12592.751,"text":"這個我們手上有你們手上有嗎 是教育部那為什麼一直都沒有更新啊已經是2010 109年到現在已經也4年了欸對 跟文法 抱歉我們來清查看我們手上都有這個數據"},{"start":12594.5,"end":12597.101,"text":"我們目前非在學的部分會由縣市政府的少府會會同社會局跟教育局共同來協助輔導"},{"start":12612.466,"end":12625.456,"text":"對,但是因為我現在看起來的那個因為6個月在通報跟6到12個月在通報的數字其實在非在學的部分都是在增加的啦所以這個是由教育部來提供給我相關的數據嘛那最後一題把握時間"},{"start":12631.007,"end":12645.427,"text":"我們現在在校安通報的霸凌數據上面我們是12.3%可是因為根據聯合國全世界校園霸凌的調查報告其實全世界是30.3%那不管是不是除了聯合國之外"},{"start":12646.829,"end":12670.897,"text":"我們在201919年台灣傳播調查資料庫的調查也有指出國小生、國中生、高中生被霸凌的比率分別是41.46%、31.97%、15.16%包含或是最近兒福每一年都會做這個數字數字都遠高於我們教育部提供的數字我想知道這個落差是什麼是我們沒有"},{"start":12672.497,"end":12698.514,"text":"我不曉得部長瞭不瞭解就是說因為我知道以前在開這個兒少事故委員會的時候兒少代表就說我們在做這些校園暴霸凌的這些問卷調查由後往前收或是都收到老師那邊沒有人敢真實的填寫所以這是一個很大的問題那他們也一直不停的提出來是不是可以透過網路的方式來做調查他們才能夠真實的說出來那這個部分我們到底是不是可以去做什麼樣子的改善讓真實的數據可以被呈現呢"},{"start":12700.387,"end":12728.685,"text":"跟委員說明我想我們的比例只有12.3跟其他國家不一樣很可能是計算的基礎不一樣因為我們現在目前的這個基礎是用通報的當作分母以查證確認成立的案件當分子那其他的這個部分可能並不是他可能是透過類似像問卷調查然後從抽樣當中去發現然後另外就是認定的期程是有關係的像我們的校園生物卷是以上個學期發生的事情以半年內是不是有發生的感受"},{"start":12728.985,"end":12732.247,"text":"其實我們是有校園霸凌現況調查在你的112年的預算書有這些計畫但是我完全找不到這個計畫的內容"},{"start":12752.281,"end":12752.581,"text":"接下來我們處理臨時提案"},{"start":12779.929,"end":12804.37,"text":"我們現在臨時提案今天有委員提出臨時提案三案我們現在請宣讀第一案有鑒於今年適逢偏鄉小校認定三年一次檢討年因此針對現行中央對偏鄉學校認定採總量管制限額導致出現像新北市原本有20所學校是偏遠小學但受限於中央給新北市額度只有45所只好改列非山非市"},{"start":12805.251,"end":12829.447,"text":"兩者相關補助經費出現嚴重落差造成偏鄉小校面臨少子化與資源不足多重困境難以翻身嚴此提案要求教育部對偏遠地區學校分級及認定標準以各校交通、文化、生活機能、數位環境及社會經濟條件等項目計算模糊標準予以檢討並對各地方政府今年爭取小校符合偏遠學校標準者"},{"start":12829.867,"end":12854.277,"text":"因依照偏遠小校實際需求採取政惡錄取．案人紅夢凱、柯智恩、葛如君第二案因臺東女中操場長久以來軍委紅土跑道每逢東北季風都造成大量沙塵不僅影響學生上課品質亦威脅學生健康為改善臺東女中整體教學品質降低風吹成揚原提案要求教育部一個月內邀集相關單位進行會勘並協助"},{"start":12856.818,"end":12881.623,"text":"臺東女中女聚相關計畫送教育部申請補助提案人葛如君、洪孟凱、柯智恩、黃建斌第三案近日因臺東高中游泳池割傷學生腳底板的問題引發廣泛討論還成為全國頭條下方則回應游泳池因使用地下水水質偏硬導致池底石灰質沉澱過去也有學生因此割傷腳底所以建議學生游泳課要穿襪子"},{"start":12882.605,"end":12910.696,"text":"台東高中體育組曾邀請維修廠商廠刊建議更換過濾器並偵測淨水塔、軟水器等設備但所需經費高達800萬元卻未能獲得體育署補助整件計劃應有擱置為避免台東高中學生著話上游泳課並維護學生受教權益委員要求教育部於一周內邀集相關單位進行會刊並協助台東高中擬具相關計劃送教育部申請補助提案人葛如軍、洪孟凱、柯智恩、黃倩冰簽讀完畢"},{"start":12912.377,"end":12919.122,"text":"我們先從第一案開始處理第一案提案委員不在教育部的看法跟主席報告我們大概跟紅委員有報告說是不是能夠在第一案後面加一個評估因評估倒數第二句最後一段"},{"start":12936.467,"end":12939.489,"text":"第二案我們的提案委員黃建斌有沒有意見?"},{"start":12962.798,"end":12981.873,"text":"謝謝主席就是像我們提案按鈕所寫的這樣子希望能夠改善這個臺東女中這個草場的保障的問題你的提案還真的是還蠻簡單的你只要去看一看就好是吧好 OK 教育部我們配合辦理好 我們配合辦理我們專案通過好 第三案"},{"start":12984.073,"end":13000.549,"text":"對啦,其實第三案跟第二案都是一樣就是要編預算的,台中高中這個應該也是上頭版的新聞了感謝委員關心跟主委報告,事實上我們下午已經有有代表這個我們部裡邊的同仁去看了,所以我們要配合辦了"},{"start":13001.169,"end":13001.189,"text":"4分鐘時間 謝謝"},{"start":13043.79,"end":13044.151,"text":"謝謝主席 請鄭部長"},{"start":13052.321,"end":13075.508,"text":"委員好部長你好我想教育部統計國中中輟生111年2135人本席認為說強化整個社會安全網將有助於中輟生重返校園那基層教師也建議說增加輔導人力也有專家建議如果"},{"start":13077.127,"end":13097.736,"text":"該區域學生中錯的比例高就應該要增加社工師的比例目前整個國中輔導教師一二年有1384人請問教育部政部長您對於校園輔導人力不足的問題未來你認為要如何處理"},{"start":13099.653,"end":13117.485,"text":"我想謝謝委員的指正確實我們現在青少年青世代他們面對社會的許多的這個應該說挑戰也蠻大的那怎麼樣減緩讓我們的學生能夠安心在學校能夠學習"},{"start":13119.554,"end":13142.025,"text":"提升輔導老師的一些相關的專業的能力這是一個那另外一個學校當然不能只靠輔導老師所以剛才委員所提的怎麼樣去適度的增加輔導人力或者必要的時候在一個大型的學校當他的問題需要有更多的一些專業人力的介入我們會擬出一個"},{"start":13144.266,"end":13163.442,"text":"你們要解決問題啦那你認為114年國中專任的輔導教師人數會不會再增加我們目前國中已經完全增補已經有增加會再增加53個人國小會再增加2088人當下的問題真的是要想辦法去解決啦那個2022年校園霸凌"},{"start":13173.202,"end":13182.97,"text":"確認的件數有205件那因為校園霸凌的問題陳出不窮我們經常在網路上看到那個學生甚至於"},{"start":13184.978,"end":13213.525,"text":"讓社會大眾大家非常的憤怒那其他學生也不敢挺身而出來檢舉形成校園霸凌的黑術那教育部定定的校園霸凌防制準則第8條提到鼓勵學生及家長檢舉來協助及作為旁觀者適當的介入以及及早制止與化解那我請問部長檢舉霸凌的鼓勵措施有哪些"},{"start":13216.448,"end":13233.655,"text":"要勇於選舉阿對不對你們總是要拿出來嘛你是要獎金還是加獎還是要升學考試加分等等有一些鼓勵選舉霸凌不要淪為只有空談阿"},{"start":13234.963,"end":13237.505,"text":"那個處置齁那個講你要實務上有作為啦空談是沒有用的啦"},{"start":13264.725,"end":13285.311,"text":"我認為做任何事情我們是針對問題探討問題要怎麼去解決問題啊並不是說淪為空談那個一點用處都沒有啦那還有這個大麻的問題因為校園大麻防制現況的以作為啊教育部曾指出一二年一到四月學生"},{"start":13286.611,"end":13304.585,"text":"藥物濫用統計中大麻高居第二名14.29%僅次於K他命而且有逐年增加的趨勢學生施用大麻的人數卻和警方實際查獲的大麻數量呈環比"},{"start":13305.805,"end":13332.224,"text":"大學生涉毒的案件黑數恐怕不少首先本席是反對吸食大麻足罪化也反對大麻改列為第三級的毒品因為包括中正大學犯罪研究中心調查指出有近九成的民眾是不贊成大麻合法化那部長你在你任內你會不會支持大麻合法化會不會"},{"start":13332.904,"end":13334.045,"text":"接下來我們請黃建斌委員 謝謝"},{"start":13364.292,"end":13365.073,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長"},{"start":13368.018,"end":13396.921,"text":"部長之前是在高雄有擔任過校長對不對?是因為我們南部的鄉親就說校長對於學生都非常的照顧在這裡也拜託保證對我們台中的學生也可以照顧首先我想要跟部長分享我上個禮拜回去台東過端午節遇到的兩件事情我在包肉粽的時候有一個小朋友小女生跟我說叔叔叔叔你知道我們有聽到一個好笑的事情是那個台東高中的學生啊他們用課都要穿襪子欸"},{"start":13397.742,"end":13424.424,"text":"穿襪子上游泳課,我以為他在開玩笑,後來部長你也看了那些新聞,這保溫是不是就接下來要請部裡面這邊來,趕快來協助來處理根文報告,確實當時臺東高中在這一個每年的年度的修繕游泳池裡邊他們也提出申請但是他們申請的是要過濾,過濾的還有一些遮陽,所以並不是"},{"start":13425.465,"end":13450.183,"text":"並不是有立即危險性的所以我們在體育署跟委員報告做了一些在請委員這個專家委員去現場這個勘查然後做了一個決定那也感謝委員的一個提醒我們是跟委員報告我們體育署今天下午就會有同仁到台東高中裡面實際去勘查那個整個未來希望能夠提供改善謝謝部長"},{"start":13451.844,"end":13480.344,"text":"第一個第二個就是我說沒有還好沒有比較好笑是說有其實我們學校的學生都帶護目鏡跟呼吸在跑步為什麼因為東台東女中的操場是紅土那東北西洋一來啊整個民眾會瘋瘋瘋的啊就算了就算了很多紅土然後會飛起來然後還有那個草地都很跑不了然後還有那個很多坑洞就是會跌倒很難跑對"},{"start":13483.573,"end":13500.911,"text":"謝謝部長,部長這個影片要提其實台東高中跟台東女中是在台東非常指標的一個綜合中學那就是高雄的最重要的地方那這麼指標的學校的教學環境設備是這樣子需要來極力改善所以在這裡也要拜託保定幫我們做什麼"},{"start":13502.185,"end":13524.385,"text":"其實這個校園看起來操場它其實蠻永續的就是符合我們現在的一個永續校園但是怎麼樣讓它塵土不再揮揚而能夠讓這一些學生能夠很安心的做這一個許多的這個運動活動我想這我們來跟學校來討論來做一些處理"},{"start":13528.15,"end":13547.436,"text":"最後我再跟部長分享我在舊址以來有一件事情一直困擾著台東的很多鄉親就是我們東海國中的綜合多功能體育館這件事情在我們上任的時候有送陳情書到部裡面可能部長這件事可能要再瞭解一下因為這間國中"},{"start":13549.216,"end":13574.838,"text":"創校57年他還沒有自己的體育館他還沒有自己的體育館他經歷了兩次的遷校然後這邊學生每年都是走到隔壁的高中參加畢業典禮然後再走回自己的校園那這邊校方也是希望說地都有了剩下經費部分是不是請部長這邊來協助那這個部分據本席了解這個公文已經送來一段時間了不知道現在這個案子進行的情況"},{"start":13576.581,"end":13598.467,"text":"公務委員報告事實上當時台東東海國中他的活動中心申請也經過審查他提出了一億兩千萬那去年十月的一個審查也合併這個用這個花東基金這個合併這個六千三百萬那地方政府"},{"start":13600.267,"end":13626.542,"text":"這一個編列這個配合館700萬大概有總共的一個7000萬的一個經費讓東海國中裡面去施作這部分是會後請部長跟哲成我們國教署跟體育署來這邊跟本席的聯繫後面的整個發展情況因為這個學校的學生包括周邊的居民都很希望有一個這樣子多功能的運動場所不只提供給學生甚至"},{"start":13627.262,"end":13632.347,"text":"祝周邊居民、利民、阻撓紅胎群埋葬收容中心在此拜託部長"},{"start":13642.546,"end":13663.193,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝所以部長看在我們臺東來的委員他是目前對你最客氣的地方好不好請你務必給臺東偏遠的縣市最好的協助一定要的一定要的好謝謝接下來我們請謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員好林倩琦委員謝謝"},{"start":13665.745,"end":13687.704,"text":"好,我們現在已經超過12點多我們反請未來來這邊質詢的委員能夠堅守時間這個本委會8加2然後列席委員4分鐘謝謝各位,謝謝好,謝謝張偉那我們就請那個教育部部長然後還有法務部和警政署的代表好,我們就請教育部長、法務部代表還有我們警政署,謝謝謝謝"},{"start":13692.577,"end":13712.762,"text":"今天我們針對這個有效防制毒品不要進入校園、減少霸凌的這個案件做這樣一個專題那我們有機會跨部會的一個討論然後也再次提醒一下那今天這個專題裡面除了這個毒品霸凌以外那我認為本席認為還有一個很重要的主體叫詐騙"},{"start":13715.021,"end":13724.089,"text":"詐騙、霸凌及毒品,我想是在這整件事情裏面很重要的一種相關系。所以依據這個這麼錯綜複雜的因果關係,那麼這三則統計數,"},{"start":13730.376,"end":13742.932,"text":"統計的這個數據還有研究我覺得應該更進一步的做一個綜合的交叉分析我想這個希望各部會在你職責所行的那個範圍內應該在這個部分再進一步的做一個討論"},{"start":13747.418,"end":13775.717,"text":"另外有個數據我也希望教育部這邊能夠留意一下雖然我們在校園霸凌防制的準則的一個背景下也召開了很多的會議還有公聽會但是今年有一個數據部裡面可以做一下瞭解也就是我們校園霸凌的數據不但的升高目前有2000多件但確認率卻降低了從三成到一成"},{"start":13776.357,"end":13793.789,"text":"但我不知道這中間是不是有些東西變成黑數所以這個部分我先提醒請大家注意一下因為我們都有一些KPI各部會有KPI的一些壓力那我不知道在這個KPI的這個導向跟壓力之下在數字的呈現上我覺得應該更"},{"start":13795.332,"end":13817.72,"text":"進一步去了解它背後的一些意義所以本席在今天的這個主題上有四點的看法與建議第一個部分是我們必須要嚴肅的看待每一個霸凌的案件因為每個案件都有它的意義這當然會讓大家比較累但是我們相信它這樣子的付出如果多關照一些社會成本相對會比較降低"},{"start":13818.56,"end":13842.379,"text":"第二部分,很多東西我們就教材完之後就感覺結束了了事但是很重要一點在這個主題上我們應該在持續追蹤的觀察長期的這樣子的追蹤其實有它的必要另外有一個部分是這個圍棋式本席在這邊建議我們應該將這個圍棋式定義入法然後能夠防圍杜建希望能夠做到一個源頭的防範"},{"start":13843.68,"end":13866.5,"text":"這個部分請相關部會去做一個考量另外我們在處理上要細密很重要一點就是保密很多事情都因為沒有保密結果除了當事人以外其他的人都是加油添醋結果到最後就變成一種渲染最後導致一種公審的狀態對當事人或相關人等其實是很不公平的"},{"start":13867.36,"end":13893.767,"text":"這是我今天很重要的一個四點的一個建議那請相關部會研議那接下來我們就用一個案件來做一個分享那今天在這個2月23號及6月5號有一個媒體的報導那我們看這個媒體報導的這個內容然後跟他的標題他的標題是以為應該是有一個家長以為國小的兒子他的兒子遭到霸凌那這個爸爸呢就"},{"start":13895.227,"end":13921.977,"text":"怒拿了武士刀衝了學校這個是媒體的標題那我相信大家現在很多時候沒有時間那我們就是標題閃了一下然後大概這個標題就進入腦子裡但是很重要我們可能要看一下這個內容那我今天就把內容拆解一下請各部會就內容上你們看到的一個結果那你對這件事情的認知那因為這是他國小的這個爸爸的國小五年級的一個他的兒子然後在"},{"start":13924.098,"end":13951.772,"text":"二月的某日下午感覺好像他認為遭到其他的同學的言語的譏諷所以他的胞妹在接受的時候他聽到這件事然後他有他的認知認為小孩可能在校園裡面接受霸凌被受到霸凌那就告訴他爸爸結果爸爸就向學校要求調查此事然後學校調查我想如果我們有經驗就知道這個看起來是沒有事情那應該也沒有這樣的情勢於是又"},{"start":13952.632,"end":13959.319,"text":"依照我們的SOP又是要開來協調會議然後邀請了這個爸爸跟其他市民家長的參與然後內容二"},{"start":13961.991,"end":13988.604,"text":"接下來在22日爸爸就去參加了這個會議結果他在這個會議當中情緒激動之下就拿出他的武士刀然後就對大家揮舞當然我們看到一些器具我們當然都會害怕所以校方就緊急封鎖整個學校52個班級進行廣播然後請大家不要離開教室當然大部分的人不知道什麼事情就在教室裡面度過了驚恐的1.5小時"},{"start":13991.426,"end":14008.522,"text":"第三當然就一定會有人去報案了分局接到報案之後就趕快到了學校然後就把這個爸爸以現行犯的方式逮捕爸爸看到了也就將這個武士刀趕快丟在這個校園的排水溝但是很多東西就後來這些器具被找到了"},{"start":14009.642,"end":14024.812,"text":"警方也發現武士刀和高爾夫球桿我後面掛號自己會想說這高爾夫球桿跟爸爸有沒有關係但是在一定的篇幅下能夠看到的報道大概就是這樣見識以後就發現武士刀還沒有開封只能算是鈍器不屬於危險物品"},{"start":14029.435,"end":14046.368,"text":"所以我真的好奇是這個請問那個高爾夫球桿是在這邊加重武士道的強度嗎這個是所謂媒體有太多背景可以解讀了好那接下來最後一個第一在審理這個A男的時候呢偵查當中他都對他的行為有"},{"start":14049.15,"end":14050.09,"text":"我們先請警政署"},{"start":14078.65,"end":14099.855,"text":"接下來法務部教育的部分我們需要長一點的時間是不是聽聽大家的一個想法委員好警政署代表發言我們看到這個個案大概就是一開始是霸凌行為的一些紛爭那跟警政署相關的就是這個A男拿出這個武士刀開始揮舞之後這個學校報案"},{"start":14101.675,"end":14119.181,"text":"進到現場我們依照現行判逮捕之後接下來就是這個院檢論罪的部分這個部分我們就尊重司法的判決那我們未來會要求類似像這種校園安全事件要立刻能夠儘速到場立刻能夠維持所有人的安全為最重要的任務以上"},{"start":14120.182,"end":14124.245,"text":"法務部有什麼看法?首先這個案子應該涉及的是刑法305條的單純恐嚇罪因為他那個武士刀沒開封沒開封的話他沒有辦法用槍炮彈"},{"start":14137.355,"end":14137.755,"text":"如果說這個檢察官認為"},{"start":14161.676,"end":14164.018,"text":"其實我看到這樣一個事件的發展事實上是覺得很尷尬"},{"start":14189.4,"end":14207.134,"text":"因為我們大概可以理解這個父親關心小孩然後看起來父親有一點衝動型的一個性格那也帶了不應該帶的這個器具到學校那在溝通的過程裡面產生了一些不必要的一些紛爭"},{"start":14208.735,"end":14209.255,"text":"我沒有努力的"},{"start":14238.547,"end":14253.441,"text":"好,謝謝部長這邊各單位都就你們的這個職責背景提出了一些看法那本席就針對這個案件剛才那個部長這邊提到的那也很感受啦就是我們都心有同感"},{"start":14257.545,"end":14275.313,"text":"這就反映到剛才本席一開始所講的我們對每一個案件的這個看待它都有後面很多的背景而且是有連帶的那這個部分我們如果光一個案件然後再加上每一年這麼多的案件那這個連帶起來我們看不到的社會成本是非常高的所以其實值得我們來正視"},{"start":14276.794,"end":14305.688,"text":"本席在這個部分我們講客觀一點來看待我們是不是應該第一個檢視怎麼去判斷這個孩子是不是遭到霸凌那有沒有可能在這個過程當中他乾脆後來或許有些東西就往心裡放然後就跟著他一起成長那另外呢家長依據孩子的說法行動的事實如何處理然後再來呢是如何對家長進行安撫、溝通並且取得信任還有協調會的這個事前的準備是不是充分"},{"start":14306.368,"end":14306.388,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":14339.243,"end":14343.264,"text":"謝謝大家請回座謝謝 我們接下來請陳俊宇委員好 謝謝主席 我們有請鄭部長好 鄭部長 謝謝"},{"start":14364.642,"end":14387.261,"text":"部長午安委員午安今天我們的專題報告是有關校園的這個毒品入侵校園還有減少暴力案件的相關的專題報告那有關校園這個霸凌的部分我想在此跟部長您還有我們相關部會的這個首長做一個研究探討"},{"start":14389.482,"end":14418.422,"text":"對於這個議題我相信在我們從以前到現在都一直不斷的都在檢討討論可是終究沒辦法來根治這個校園霸凌的相關問題那就先前網路媒體所公布的這個民調在教育文化的這個政策當中民眾認為新政府最優先應該要解決的問題還是校園霸凌的這個事件那再來才是人才培育和教育的改革"},{"start":14419.463,"end":14437.504,"text":"最近這個重大的校園霸凌事件頻傳那尤其透過這個手機去拍攝然後將影片上傳到這個社群媒體再被新聞拿來做引用更是會造成這個廣泛的傳播效果那在上個禮拜宜蘭縣"},{"start":14439.008,"end":14466.007,"text":"也有一所知名的國中跆拳道隊的問題發生了令人憤慨的霸凌事件這個內容是跆拳道隊內的一名學弟對學姊施暴拳打腳踢並且這個影片在宜蘭地方的社群廣為流傳我想請教部長您對於這個案件有沒有掌握相關的內容"},{"start":14469.431,"end":14488.667,"text":"跟委員報告,謝謝委員關心校園霸凌,確實我們現在有一定程度的掌握,那當然雙方現在校園A校園有積極在處理,這以上的一個補充那這兩名學生針對這個部分,部長您了解這兩名學生是不是已經正常上課了?"},{"start":14494.079,"end":14494.88,"text":"學校有沒有啟動相關的輔導機制?"},{"start":14512.07,"end":14530.057,"text":"允許我這邊不報告因為已經跟宜蘭縣教育署有積極的聯繫了解整個的來龍去脈不過因為還在調查當中我們就在這邊不方便多說但是呢我們的確有請校方第一個維護雙方學生的安全還有以及他們的雙方的輔導的機制都已經啟動"},{"start":14533.559,"end":14549.919,"text":"市報的學生因為兩名都是跆拳道隊的隊員會不會影響到他們以後參賽的資格目前應該還不至於因為這部分比較深層的原因我們還是需要去做處理以正面輔導這部分走向為主"},{"start":14550.74,"end":14576.44,"text":"好 那我想在此我想請部長對於一個問題的重視因為兩兆學生都是未成年那網路上仍然有許多流傳的未打上馬賽克的影片在他們被施暴的過程裡面的影像都還在流傳當中我們是不是可以要求相關網路社群平台可以下架"},{"start":14578.362,"end":14590.275,"text":"是的,我想我們已經在6月9日就向iWIN網路希望能夠申請已經申請這個影片的下架那我們有沒有去追蹤看看是不是真的都下架了"},{"start":14592.688,"end":14616.034,"text":"委員報告下架這個歷來一定都會下架現在就是有些是已經先被扣起來了好那這部分再請我們署長就這個持續去追蹤看看那因為從我們中央的這個教育部到地方的教育處再到校園從這個防制校園霸凌是需要我們每一個面向"},{"start":14616.934,"end":14619.275,"text":"我相信這樣子才可以提升我們教育的環境部長您認同嗎"},{"start":14644.002,"end":14664.988,"text":"我完全認同這個委員的說法這是我們努力的 精進的好 謝謝部長 也謝謝署長 謝謝好 謝謝我們的陳俊宇委員喔 謝謝接下來 鍾嘉賓委員鍾嘉賓委員 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員武力華委員謝謝"},{"start":14676.156,"end":14679.438,"text":"謝謝主席 有請教育部長好 我們請鄭部長部長好今天委員會特別安排如何有效的防制這個毒品侵入校園以及減少霸凌但是您是教育界出身專長是教育心理學跟教育行政"},{"start":14703.274,"end":14722.277,"text":"做過大學校長也做過地方政府的教育局局長你應該很清楚老師的一顆心是孩子的一片天所以要談這些問題我今天其實是想要來談老師因為有好的老師我們來治本"},{"start":14723.078,"end":14740.153,"text":"後面呢就不會有這些太大的問題那在這裡我想要先來跟部長您看一下去年聯合報院警工程有做一個偏鄉教改的大調查那我們看一下他裡面的重點"},{"start":14741.694,"end":14761.392,"text":"幾乎都是跟人有關 招生不易 招聘老師不易 教師流動率高 也就是說既留不住人 也找不到人 而這個所謂的人是包括老師跟學生 所以在這裡我們就常常在笑 這個叫做偏鄉大逃亡"},{"start":14762.453,"end":14786.286,"text":"我們有一個叫偏鄉條例前幾年制定的我們看一下如果跟制定前它的偏鄉流動率以國小來講2.1%制定這個條例之後112學年度國小的教師流動率降到1.2%所以看起來是有效的"},{"start":14786.986,"end":14813.986,"text":"但是呢比起全國平均還是高了一點點所以表示還有需要努力的空間那特別是這一次因為偏鄉教育條例說如果9任滿8年就會有一個所謂的9任獎金所以114年也是要發放了那我們特別看一下因為聲音很多像這個偏鄉教育條例的第21條"},{"start":14815.467,"end":14833.117,"text":"他給的9任獎金是給校長、老師第二項針對專聘的老師、代理的教師、專業的輔導人員甚至社工人員他也是準用所以這個部分我想要請教一下"},{"start":14834.588,"end":14853.579,"text":"因為我有一個版本也有其他的中加病委員、賴會員等跟我一起共題就是我們想要問關於這些學校的教練、學校的護理師、學校的幹事他們是編制人員喔"},{"start":14854.68,"end":14856.081,"text":"所以想要請教一下部長您認為這個9任獎金偏鄉的這一些編制內的人員是不是應該也要一起來發放"},{"start":14870.868,"end":14894.299,"text":"我先補充一點訊息那現行我們初步統計大概明年會來發放約略有8500人那現在統計的範圍那麼是如現在未修條例前的那委員所提的這樣的一個現象或是偏鄉的處境那部長非常的關切所以他會請我們跟地方政府還有相關的團體一起來共商那我要繼續說"},{"start":14895.72,"end":14914.733,"text":"因為以我們立法院來講大家都看得很清楚當我們去做加薪的時候條4%我們是立法委員是公保那議事人員公保都沒問題可是呢連同我們的助理他們是勞保其實他們也都跟著加薪因為我們同住一個屋簷下"},{"start":14915.774,"end":14940.892,"text":"那現在就是遇到一些像是我們偏鄉地區的社監、工勇、廚工這些約聘僱勞保的人員是不是他們也應該都要有我覺得這個都一併要來去討論那大家詬病的還有一個偏鄉很不合理的就是我們的像六都喔他們學校都有保全應該部長您很清楚可是"},{"start":14941.733,"end":14952.517,"text":"很多年以前公有欲缺不補只給學校不到一萬塊的就是做這些零食雜事的一個人力終點費那這個對偏鄉來講從一早開門要去灑水要修東西那你給的錢只能拼38個小時"},{"start":14960.12,"end":14982.637,"text":"那我們要找誰?所以部長您應該都知道這個對偏鄉都極為不利所以我希望這個部分部長要好好的希望在您的任內把它整頓我覺得這個是給所有偏鄉的老師也好行政人員也好這是一個很大的強心劑那我知道那個主席再給我一分鐘另外一塊就是行政大逃亡"},{"start":14983.317,"end":14998.164,"text":"那行政大逃亡我都不用多說了投書的雜誌的新聞的很多現在部長您應該最清楚招不到行政人力了那他的癥結很簡單就是沒有誘因多少年來沒有條我當主任我當組長做這麼多工作但是我跟導師沒什麼差別"},{"start":15007.288,"end":15023.61,"text":"所以在這個部分我希望這些要做寒暑假工作做這麼多計畫做這麼多評鑑這樣一點點一千塊的差距我覺得要去正視那我特別跟部長講一下我們最近內政部有主動調高"},{"start":15024.952,"end":15049.996,"text":"明代還有那些村里長的事務費、助理費、衛民服務費等等這是內政部主動提出的所以我希望部長我提出來關於這個偏鄉大逃亡、行政大逃亡沒有人要當主任組長也不考了他的入取率是百分之兩百多所以這個部分希望兩週內給我一個報告好不好策進作為可以嗎"},{"start":15054.332,"end":15069.184,"text":"好,我相信這個做好了我們的那個一定會下降啦毒品、霸凌一定會下降給教育行政人員一個強心劑好不好好,謝謝部長、謝謝署長、謝謝主席好,謝謝好,接下來我們請范雲委員謝謝謝謝昭緯,有請部長好,我們請部長"},{"start":15087.654,"end":15087.954,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":15118.094,"end":15120.755,"text":"請提醒部長,感謝您勇於承擔,但是這個部分應該要跨部會來努力好不好提醒部長,也謝謝您"},{"start":15142.303,"end":15146.125,"text":"再來今天我想問的是跟教徵有關的事部長您可能不知道因為在兩年前花蓮的教師爭試發生國文老師考英文不考國文的事當時我就質詢了潘部長潘部長也認為這樣的事情不能夠接受所以教育部後來就修了跟教徵有關的行政命令"},{"start":15169.453,"end":15186.84,"text":"就是公立高級中等以下學校教師甄選作業要點其中講到中央主管機關發現有違師而且經查證屬實的時候可以請地方主管機關改正那這個相關的有這一條不知道部長曉不曉得有這個規定"},{"start":15191.847,"end":15212.853,"text":"沒關係如果部長原來不熟悉的話現在就確定有這個部分因為當時我就請教育部就是如果沒有相關規定的話應該要去了解一下因為畢竟這是地方的權限可是也不能到違反我們中央的相關的更高位階的教育基本的法令"},{"start":15213.533,"end":15240.438,"text":"所以目前在我的努力下就是去年2月的新版本在這裡那我想請問部長有沒有聽說最近臺北市有關較真的一些爭議那我要舉臺北不是針對臺北因為臺北市比較容易上新聞不代表其他縣市沒有問題那包含就是二氧化碳光合作用的氧是不是來自二氧化碳就教育局臺北市教育局公佈的答案"},{"start":15241.238,"end":15241.799,"text":"臺北市決定增額入取"},{"start":15256.535,"end":15279.901,"text":"但是就引發大家說是不是有草的就是孩童才有糖吃因為另外一題還不是教育局跟阿德勒個人心理學這個我也雖然我不是心理學專家我們那個昭偉可能更熟阿德勒我也讀過一兩本書啊那我也覺得那個丁明顯就不對因為他說補償作用只適用於有身心在者"},{"start":15280.481,"end":15291.272,"text":"可是教育局公佈的答案居然是C有這個丁在裡面然後國立大學的資商輔導學系教授已經指出了這個丁明顯就有爭議所以這答案是有問題的但是呢就是冷處理這一題我想問的事情是部長您覺得剛剛以台北市這個為例"},{"start":15302.362,"end":15316.207,"text":"這是不是也符合我們剛講的中央主管機關發現有為師而且經查證屬實應該要請聯合甄選的主管機關予以改正呢您覺得有沒有符合這個你們修訂的這一條"},{"start":15320.202,"end":15330.406,"text":"報告委員,剛剛那個他涉及到實質上那一題出題整體的認定那個比較在規範面我們當時在規範的第12條2項比較不屬於同性質了不過委員對於這一類"},{"start":15340.37,"end":15352.896,"text":"上一次我們答應的是能不能夠讓縣市出題的這個爭議減少的方法包含聯合起來有更多時間或是更好的命題例如入圍等等這個方式我們在這週五會開會"},{"start":15356.038,"end":15383.408,"text":"好 那你們會開會是好事那我針對這件事情我覺得有一個你們可以去考量的評估的是不是要給考生救濟機制因為教師對我們教育非常的重要他應該是一個重要的國家考試可是我們現在放在地方政府那過去比較大的爭議那教育部的確會去處理的像我之前講的那個花蓮縣那個國文老師考英文的事情"},{"start":15384.048,"end":15403.829,"text":"但是相關的這個爭議我相信不會只有臺北市政府那是不是你們可以去研議一下要不要給考生救濟機制而不要說每件事情因為他上新聞然後我們立委來質詢我們才有機會處理好不好就是先去研議那你們也要開會了包含救濟機制一起討論好不好"},{"start":15407.055,"end":15422.603,"text":"謝謝委員的指教但是有一些屬於地方的這些老師命題上的疏失是不是要到這個中央裡面來做成一個法規上的一些救濟我想我們再來研議"},{"start":15423.784,"end":15436.939,"text":"我想你們就去演繹喔因為這個部分到底需不需要那你至少有這個發現為師經查證屬實那這個如何發現喔就是我想這個部分你們可以演繹需不需要有這個救濟劑因為我認為它是一個重要的國家考試好不好"},{"start":15438.541,"end":15459.88,"text":"那另外一個部分就是不知道部長曉不曉得因為剛剛也都有一些相關的部分就是不適任教師也是有委員問到就是新的制度那全教總很批那家長團體跟教育團體是支持的那部長知不知道為什麼家長跟老師會意見不一樣"},{"start":15461.201,"end":15464.085,"text":"部長知道原因嗎?我想他主要是涉及到老師的權益那怎麼樣也讓這一個老師在各學在學校在處理不適應教師也老師也有參與的角色我想他們主要是在這個部分的不一致"},{"start":15478.764,"end":15498.73,"text":"但事實上當時我所理解攀部長的也是用心良苦他希望說老師的教學負擔已經夠重了如果涉及到教室的爭議的時候是不是讓我們有客觀的公正的第三者能夠來協助我想這需要一些時間再來大家加強溝通"},{"start":15499.65,"end":15502.353,"text":"的確是需要時間謀合但是有一個部分我們幫老師來想的部分是老師會擔心不知道如何遵循現在我們是改為外聘委員舉個例子剛剛也有委員問到"},{"start":15517.391,"end":15523.814,"text":"最近這個案子就是一個大學的性評會學校的教評會依照性評會建議停審三年我剛剛已經聽到了你們把它退回是因為你們認為可能這個停聘三年還不足夠當然尊重大學自主我回來講這件事情就是這樣的一個案子"},{"start":15538.661,"end":15556.721,"text":"目前教育部的準則其實只有一個韓式據我的瞭解還是非常模糊的才會出現學校的校評會依照性評會他停聘三年可是教育部覺得情節重大他情節的確重大因為這個案子只是我們辦公室之前也有接到陳情他是複數的學生"},{"start":15558.042,"end":15565.35,"text":"可是為什麼學校跟你們的判定會不一樣就是我們對於不適任教師比如這個老師是不是已經不適合當老師了沒有一個比較清楚的準則那這個部分那其實體罰的事情我們也遇到老師帶領全班學生去討論要如何出班規結果大家討論出來說應該要罰跑操場等等"},{"start":15579.845,"end":15609.177,"text":"老師就這麼去做了後來被判定體罰老師認為這不是體罰因為是同學民主討論出來的班規我覺得老師在這個新時代遇到的問題就像剛剛有委員說的就是好像他的武器變少了那可是動不動就會被認為是霸凌或者是體罰那我一直主張教育部要訂出怎麼樣是好的就是老師的行為準則要怎麼管教"},{"start":15610.698,"end":15637.34,"text":"剛剛這個老師就是他最後被學校調查只有成立不斷管教那家長還對霸凌不成立提出申復申復成功後學校需要重啓調查那這些事情真的不斷在發生那今天召委辦的這個霸凌這個主題非常的重要那我希望教育部不是從零開始做因為去年我擔任召委的時候我們就辦了一個反霸凌降低霸凌的公聽會"},{"start":15638.621,"end":15660.854,"text":"教育部不知道記不記得你們應該記不記得不知道部長知不知道你們當時承諾要進行跨國研究因為我自己在做國會外交的時候到英國、德國、比利時我們都有特別跟他們的教育部會因為名稱不一定叫教育部相關的人請議有看到各國對於反霸凌或者等等"},{"start":15661.514,"end":15681.788,"text":"其實都有一些不同的做法跟準則所以教育部我有跟你們要資料你們現在4到6月正在請委辦研究專家學者嚴寧計劃籌組研究計劃團隊那可不可以部長可不可以告訴我們現在進度是不是依照你們的規劃說明是正在嚴寧計劃呢謝謝委員的提醒其實我們部裡邊已經在"},{"start":15690.297,"end":15694.082,"text":"今年4月已經有用專案委託大學的專家來進行跨國的研究"},{"start":15700.083,"end":15702.906,"text":"我希望這個報告是很有品質的因為教育的問題不會只有台灣發生至少別的國家的不錯的經驗我們要能夠了解看看是不是能夠適用在台灣否則這樣的議題一直出現"},{"start":15726.066,"end":15755.146,"text":"現有的老師真的覺得非常的困擾那我們要給他一個好的工具說如何不是體罰然後不是違反教育部的霸凌相關的規定做好管教工作好不好所以我今天的兩個規定就是不是規定講錯了兩個對教育部長的期待跟要求就是第一個那個教真的亂象教育部那應該要研議一下我剛剛所講的那個部分第二個教師行為準則的跨國研究持續進行"},{"start":15755.686,"end":15756.126,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長好,部長"},{"start":15791.793,"end":15817.284,"text":"部長好,今天我要跟你討論有關怎麼樣來防治毒品進入校園我先讓部長看一下這個是你們校安通報學生藥物濫用的統計在這幾年當中數據感覺好像也是差不多是這樣子沒有多大的變化另外我想請教就是說"},{"start":15819.94,"end":15837.597,"text":"這個我們這個是校安中心所呈報出來的一個統計那另外有關這個警方這一邊的他的這個涉毒嫌疑人的資料跟學籍勾結的這個結果那他這個數據跟我們這個校安通報的這個數據是完全"},{"start":15840.319,"end":15856.694,"text":"就是完全不一樣那哪一個數據才是正確的這個是我等一下要請教部長的另外就是說我們看到這個之前這個行政院也有特別提到就是說教育部法務部內政部衛福部會共同討論這個反毒的業務跟工作劃被動為主動"},{"start":15865.121,"end":15887.993,"text":"更積極地檢視毒品的防制業務執行的狀況我想請教部長在這幾年當中怎麼樣強化校園的藥物濫用防制近三年的成效到底是怎樣這個數據為什麼跟警方的數據是完全鬥不攏的是不是可以請部長回答"},{"start":15891.583,"end":15911.771,"text":"警方查獲的數據都會提供給教育部進行學級的比對那學級比對確定他是在學生才會納入這個充分輔導的個案所以那個目前警方這裡統計的官司高中時跟大專的人數遠比我們大得多很有可能是還沒有經過這個學級比對之後的結果"},{"start":15916.689,"end":15943.52,"text":"所以我想請教就是說教育部針對這一部分因為我看那個數據其實每一年呈現出來的數據其實也沒有差多少那你們到底在推動毒品防制的這一部分到底你們自己有沒有設定一個目標或設定什麼樣的成效什麼樣的成效、什麼樣的數據才是你們認為是有效的防制毒品進入校園"},{"start":15944.6,"end":15964.892,"text":"你們自己有沒有設定一個目標?我們設定目標是希望能夠新生的射毒人口是可以逐年減少至於已經射毒的部分它的再犯率我們也希望透過輔導那個輔導成功率能提升讓它再犯率可以降低那經過這樣子你們覺得成效如何?"},{"start":15967.751,"end":15986.019,"text":"各位報告,這幾年有受到疫情的因素的干擾所以數字有降、有增情況還不是非常穩定可能需要更長的時間做觀察各位報告,我們目前的做法還是第一個就是"},{"start":15987.566,"end":16002.405,"text":"對於可能潛在的黑素的部分要持續的做清查包括校內的部分觀察學生有異樣的表現的部分透過尿塞確定他是個案把他納入輔導另外同時他對於查獲涉毒個案的學生"},{"start":16003.306,"end":16003.866,"text":"司法部長"},{"start":16025.698,"end":16046.215,"text":"我們希望就是說教育部針對這一部分應該也要設定自己一個目標怎麼樣怎麼去降低這個人數那時間到那個主席列席委員四分鐘因為現在快到一點鐘了好不好各位麻煩一下不好意思那其他的我再跟私下再跟部長討論好好好謝謝"},{"start":16048.137,"end":16049.097,"text":"時間寶貴只有240秒請教育部鄭部長休息一下"},{"start":16079.754,"end":16105.489,"text":"來 休息一下學特斯 吳司長學特斯 謝謝這個校園這個霸凌跟這個毒品防治的是學特斯的主要的業務嘛是你這個校安通報 要無濫用國中高中職大學教學現場裡面高中職占多數 對不對對國中跟高中職也差不多大專比較小"},{"start":16106.677,"end":16127.794,"text":"大概這個黑數大概有多少?你看每年大概加起來大概500對不對?我不相信這個全國這個包括國中、高中跟大專只有500個通報黑數大概你估計多少?我請法務部警察、國司長一起來"},{"start":16129.502,"end":16158.01,"text":"跟委員說明我們其實有很努力的清查啦這個除了警方查獲的以外我們透過校內的特定學生你給我個數據或者大概黑數大概有多少跟委員報告這個如果可以知道我們就把他抓出來了你當然要想辦法知道啊這是你的工作你的責任是所以你是司長當然要掌握黑數有多少是而你又不能答那代表說你通報機制有問題該通報未通報有沒有法則"},{"start":16159.853,"end":16186.249,"text":"會有究責有沒有因此究責過?你要拿出更好的方法把黑樹抓出來才能了解說這個毒品在校園犯案的情況到底都會區跟非都會區有沒有差別?有沒有差別?跟委員報告這個部分應該是有差別的啦應該是有當然是應該有才問你嘛那差別多少?都會區比較嚴重還是非都會區比較嚴重?"},{"start":16189.856,"end":16207.985,"text":"非都會區因為學生人數少相對而言它的百分比例變動我説比例啦 我説比例嘛是是是相對變動比例會跳動的比較大都會地區運營部說大你不要統計學的數字還跟我說你要一個趨勢告訴我我不要求你詳細的數字等一下你趨勢要告訴我是非都會區比較嚴重還是非都會區比較嚴重"},{"start":16209.83,"end":16228.064,"text":"你不能回答,我請檢察司,這個國司長因你這個檢查實務來看,在校園這個要濫用這個黑數目前每年大概500件左右,那黑數大概有多少?根文報告,因為那個青少年試用毒品這一塊"},{"start":16228.925,"end":16230.907,"text":"沒有三倍也有五倍沒有三倍也有五倍"},{"start":16255.566,"end":16272.334,"text":"所以這個避重就輕代表說你黑數抓不出來你黑數抓不出來你就沒辦法去防治你就沒辦法去預防你就沒辦法去處理 對不對好接下來霸凌霸凌的數據在哪裡霸凌的數據在哪裡數字在哪裡啊數字啊你過去3年在國中教育現場跟高中時大專的霸凌的件數通報件數有多少"},{"start":16282.076,"end":16309.247,"text":"一年大概3000件左右不能大概3000件你每年度的數據要出來是你以為這邊是遊樂場啊有 真有錢根委員報告109年你要數據要提供這個是專案報告是針對霸凌針對這個毒品濫用對不對是所以你要詳細數據看看這個每年的這個變化有根委員在這個生對生那失對生的呢失對生也有但是失對生的比率相對少很多那還是有黑數"},{"start":16310.697,"end":16311.078,"text":"我看你的報告裡面"},{"start":16328.479,"end":16329.099,"text":"最後10秒鐘請部長"},{"start":16350.509,"end":16378.237,"text":"你生對生有一個準則來應用然後你這個施對生教那個權力不對等你用這個解聘教什麼解聘的辦法我覺得不夠周延是不是比照這個生對生施對生的這個霸凌也用一個有一個客觀的一個調查委員會來處理有有有這個我們事實上也都有調查小組而且是一個都是外聘的一個委員"},{"start":16379.485,"end":16379.785,"text":"謝謝主席 請部長"},{"start":16412.642,"end":16436.828,"text":"部長您知道現在家長最憂心的事情是包括毒品進入校園的這個問題是你知道吧是那要怎麼樣讓家長安心呢因為這些孩子呢他設施衛生所以他基於這個好奇刺激引誘所以會導致這樣的情況所以我們要討論這個問題呢電子菸的部分現在"},{"start":16442.284,"end":16460.965,"text":"教育部最近也提出了他這個年輕化把它加在這裡面那把它加在這裡面這該當怎麼辦所以本席要請教這樣子的個案接下來我們是暑假是暑假喔那我們要如何相關因應方案"},{"start":16462.339,"end":16482.121,"text":"事實上在每一年的暑假我們在各縣市的教育局處都會跟警政單位能夠這一個部長打斷你的回答是因為本期不希望聽到以往怎麼樣因為你是新任的部長以往的數字我倒要告訴你是越來越糟糕"},{"start":16483.314,"end":16495.961,"text":"所以我希望新人有心作為,您要怎麼應應?我想簡單的講,就跟委員報告,我們過去可能暑假只有一次兩個次,我們會增加這個查訪的許多那個關鍵的那個這個場所,我們會增加查緝的這些頻率"},{"start":16505.145,"end":16528.015,"text":"你所告訴我的是增加查緝我希望你還有其他方案輸入資料給本席接下來我要請問您的是說學生藥物濫用在我們的資料裡頭是越來越年輕這個讓我最憂心越來越年輕那就怎麼辦越來越年輕呢所以本席要請教你應該是從根源"},{"start":16529.72,"end":16530.02,"text":"請教育部長"},{"start":16550.092,"end":16551.433,"text":"部長,你告訴我的這一些呢"},{"start":16579.463,"end":16581.204,"text":"接下來 校園霸凌的問題網路上一直在輪 一直在輪 我好緊張"},{"start":16602.573,"end":16603.474,"text":"每年都破千在107年"},{"start":16617.755,"end":16627.542,"text":"確認比例可以達到百分之三十但是相對三件就有一件是成案的但是我們看到現在112年7月份的時候它的比例是達不到一成是9%那這個問題到底是怎麼樣呢我們明知道它越來越嚴重但是你成案的越來越少它是謊報還是我們沒有認真查還是不敢去面對部長"},{"start":16641.519,"end":16643.46,"text":"請你把方案給我主動防範調查機制好不好 把方案給我 謝謝"},{"start":16670.419,"end":16698.579,"text":"好,非常謝謝我們的楊瓊英委員謝謝謝謝部長賴瑞龍委員賴瑞龍委員賴瑞龍委員林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員李燕秀委員李燕秀委員李燕秀委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員報告委員會我們今天登記質詢的委員都已經發言完畢另外有萬美林委員提出書面"},{"start":16700.26,"end":16719.451,"text":"關於今天的會議我們做如下的決定報告及答詢完畢委員所提的書面資料或是相關的資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分請相關機關競速以書面答覆報告委員會我們今天議程處理完畢現在休息謝謝大家"},{"start":16736.683,"end":16745.799,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16757.52,"end":16759.682,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":16790.378,"end":16790.598,"text":"致詢委員會議"},{"start":16824.428,"end":16828.319,"text":"響鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}