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﹏﹏"},{"start":2088.19,"end":2092.657,"text":"第二部分我們要談的是引導季專校院以彈性多元創新的方式經營來提高產業對接季專校院在面對少子化趨勢下學生的來源減少跟衝擊其實是比一般大學更為巨大"},{"start":2103.292,"end":2121.567,"text":"另外多數技高學生畢業後都傾向繼續升學而延後就業市場所以技高院校在培育學生適應未來產業的角色就變得更為重要教育部會透過引導技專院校以彈性多元創新的方式經營特別是去增強對產業的對接"},{"start":2123.749,"end":2146.461,"text":"例如我們會推動技高跟科大合作的3加2的類伍專的模式或是我們過去的產息2.0模式另外我們也推行學士後多元專長培地專案跟STEM領域學士後專班我們希望讓技專校園能夠更靈活地適應市場的需求並提升學生的就業競爭力"},{"start":2147.781,"end":2158.63,"text":"其中為了回應現行技高學生及家長對於深讀科技大學的期待同時我們也希望避免學生在技高階段只因為顧及到升學而忽略專業技術的學習所以我們在現有的這個學制的規劃下我們由技高跟科大、二專以及產業共同推動這個3加2的六五專模式"},{"start":2170.8,"end":2186.453,"text":"另外也因應職場工作專業技能、日新月異以及跨領域專業整合運用的需求的增加我們針對已經取得學士學位的而且有想要取得第二專長學士學位的需求者我們規劃這個大專院校辦理多元專長培力方案113學年度我們共合訂了33校143班將近2000名學生"},{"start":2194.319,"end":2218.607,"text":"另外,針對非STEM領域的學士以上的畢業者至112年我們也開始推動STEM領域學士後專班試辦計畫由學校跟產業界共同合作規劃跨領域課程進行產學協同教學並由產業提供業師、講助學金、實習津貼跟學生的職涯發展這個在113年學年度我們也合訂了17校32班1400多名的名額"},{"start":2223.052,"end":2245.054,"text":"第三個我們要談的就是說我們希望能夠來開始來形塑大專院校校園職場體驗的文化那來協助在校青年的職業發展那這個我們教育部未來我們已經有在做那我們在推動這個校園這個我們會推動這個校園企業見習專案來提供這個新創公司職場體驗的機會"},{"start":2246.936,"end":2273.419,"text":"並擴增職場體驗特色計畫的量能及範疇總之我們希望我們台灣的大學生能夠在未來能夠更形成一個文化是在大學就有機會去企業做interim在他畢業的時候他就其實就有這個職場的體驗跟過去的經驗在加入公司的時候我們會覺得台灣未來年輕人大家會覺得其實有經驗的這個是有在公司裡面是會"},{"start":2274.58,"end":2281.663,"text":"有戰力的那本部在大專院校推動職涯輔導補助計畫裡面我們會新增企業見習專案我們要加強大專院校跟企業的連結那這個專案我們邀請企業人員入校擔任業師或教練講授職場見習的課程提供職涯的諮詢那我們"},{"start":2296.409,"end":2312.761,"text":"也安排學生在在學期間進行職場的 intern去累積工作經驗提升就業競爭力另外為了提供更多新創公司的職場體驗機會本部結合了大專院校育成中心推動的U-STAR的創新創業計畫我們會讓這些公司給我們的學生去體驗"},{"start":2318.185,"end":2321.688,"text":"做職場體驗讓學生體驗到新創的工作環境進而有機會來激發他們的創業精神探索創新的職涯我們每年暑假也會辦理青年創業家見習機會我們每一盒學生到新創公司見習這個114年我們會再擴增見習職缺到100個人並逐年增加"},{"start":2343.685,"end":2357.899,"text":"我們本部也結合了公司部門推動的多項職場體驗計畫包括公部門的見習計畫社區職場體驗計畫以及青年工讀計畫我們希望能夠為在學的青年提供更多的職場體驗機會未來我們會開發更多的民間"},{"start":2362.463,"end":2362.503,"text":"提供討論．"},{"start":2385.814,"end":2387.597,"text":"繼續收集各方的意見作為未來相關的政策評估推動之參考謝謝"},{"start":2400.469,"end":2402.311,"text":"好,我們謝謝葉次長的口頭報告那現在我們就進行詢答每位初席委員質詢時間為6分鐘必要時候延長2分鐘列席的委員質詢的時間是4分鐘那發言登記截止的時間是上午10點30分"},{"start":2420.488,"end":2439.685,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案的話請在上午10點30分前提出並且在本委員會五屋村城委員質詢完畢之後我們就要立即處理處理提案的時候若提案委員不在場及聯署委員均不在場我們原例就不予處理我們首先請發言登記第一位的萬美林委員質詢"},{"start":2446.593,"end":2449.519,"text":"謝謝召委,我們有請葉丙成次長好,葉次長好,次長早"},{"start":2458.628,"end":2459.208,"text":"市長有注意到我們大漢技術學院的這個案件?"},{"start":2482.13,"end":2505.865,"text":"大漢技術學院的董事會在今年2月無預警地宣布在113年起依照私校法他要停教在114年他要停辦這引起我想全國都有在關注這件事情師生也非常的不滿那我請教一下次長大漢技術學院目前的狀況有沒有體質差的狀況包括財務惡化、失智不足或者學生受教權益這個檢核不通過有沒有"},{"start":2506.878,"end":2529.949,"text":"沒有沒有都沒有好所以呢大汗的這個董事會啊大家都在說疑似是要規避日後我們的校產啊被依照私校退場條例清算所以他用先斬後作的方式來突襲依據私校法第71條停招而且改辦那這種做法其實他是不顧教職員跟學生的權益讓教育部其實措手不及啦那剛剛次長也講到了我們沒有以上這三項問題喔那我們也知道"},{"start":2531.63,"end":2549.284,"text":"其實他如果要依照不管思想法70條、71條等等他都應該要先提出計畫要先來抱準才能夠往下做那他現在的做法就是倒行逆施到這種程度完全沒有抱準然後自行對外就宣布他要停招他要停辦這樣的一個做法教育部現在要怎麼做"},{"start":2550.951,"end":2558.798,"text":"市長,其實大漢董事會在上個禮拜上個禮拜三有再召開過校務會議但是高教工會有說因為他們現在自救嘛因為教育部看起來好像沒有辦法幫他們所以他們有過半數的教師是加入工會的所以到現在為止校方是沒有辦法把停辦計畫送出來那另外"},{"start":2577.014,"end":2596.54,"text":"校長為了要達成他自己要送出停辦計畫書的目的所以他也更換了校務會議的委員並且把工會原來的行政職務也解職了總之他用各種方式就是要自行的停辦停招這樣的一個做法請問一下從事情發生到現在教育部有沒有去溝通了解有沒有違法"},{"start":2602.976,"end":2623.694,"text":"市長你等他的這個送上來他今天就沒有送上來就已經對外就已經對外說他要停招停辦啦現在的問題不是要等他送上來這樣子教育部的做法太慢囉這個其實他並沒有對我我們的了解是這個並不是他們在對外講因為我覺得我們要他沒有在對外講那請問一下他今年還要繼續續招續辦嗎"},{"start":2625.959,"end":2628.208,"text":"我沒有看到他停辦計畫他今年還會繼續續辦續招嗎?你能保證他今年繼續續辦續招?"},{"start":2633.94,"end":2655.808,"text":"我請司長補充一下跟委員報告那今年113學年度能不能停招當然要等部裡面核定他才能夠確定所以現在沒有核定我請教一下他今年會不會續招我們還沒有核定前他當然可以續招所以如果他今年在你沒有核定前他就停招了有沒有違法"},{"start":2657.076,"end":2662.718,"text":"跟我們報告有沒有違法告訴我就好來次長請教一下那如果違法的話我們教育部要怎麼做如果違法的話我們當然是要依私效法來處理怎麼處理跟我們報告假如他針對停招這一個事由我們當然要看他你告訴我怎麼處理就好今天時間非常有限他們目前就我們知道他們已經有在招"},{"start":2687.072,"end":2700.962,"text":"市長您的意思是說這個媒體說他說對外要停招停辦都是媒體亂說的那這個都是空穴來風您現在的意思是這樣嗎不是不是空穴來風那如果他今年是停招的情況之下我們要怎麼去處理他"},{"start":2701.994,"end":2705.9,"text":"因為剛剛次長也說這違法了嘛讓他怎麼處理?次長也說違法了怎麼處理?所以我們還是會讓他單招因為他學校從110開始就已經是單招他不參加連招所以他的時間只要在開學前如果是這樣的話"},{"start":2717.256,"end":2746.084,"text":"他的計畫書現在還沒有送上來你也還沒有核准他如果他停照的話有違法的話教育部一定要出面我想這個此例不可開啊我們私校退場條例出來很多的私校其實都在擔心未來這個私校退場以後校產充公所以如果這個案子你們沒有好好處理的話會引起連鎖效應剛才次長在報告的時候也講少子化少子化現在我們的私校他擔憂那擔憂如果群起效由以後每一個人說不辦就不辦"},{"start":2746.844,"end":2765.882,"text":"請問一下我們學子的權益跟我們教職員的權益往哪來做保障呢所以呢我想因為今天的時間真的非常有限那我希望會後能夠司長再到我辦公室來我們把大漢的這個案子說清楚講明白那最後還是要用一點時間這個時間真的非常珍貴我請教一下次長次長"},{"start":2769.011,"end":2783.641,"text":"我直接來問您這個今天本席要問的一個部分就是您剛剛也有提到說您要提出一個3加2新5專模式說科大可以跟高職合作無論是用合併或雙聯學位的方法專一、專二、專三在高職就讀專四、專五在科大我想請教一下你這個案子一出來"},{"start":2789.365,"end":2800.471,"text":"這幾天不管是各個學校的校長不管是老師家長我們大家一頭霧水我請教一下這個是一個確定的案子嗎那你有跟這個高職或是專科或是科大開過會嗎這是個構想那我們在內部有討論過"},{"start":2806.274,"end":2830.003,"text":"這時是內部討論你完全都還沒有跟相關的學校來開過會喔還沒完全都沒有那次長本席在這裡真的要糾正喔這個東西喔您今天已經是次長了教育的政策我記得本席跟您說過我們一定不能喔一直翻轉一直翻轉你這樣拼命翻轉到最後會翻車啊你知道嗎所以呢我們過去20年教改革得太厲害了我們應該要先確定方向微調"},{"start":2831.643,"end":2842.13,"text":"現在教育部在開這部車子不能猛踩油門你要先確定方向嘛所以如果你都還沒有跟這個科大啦高職啦跟教育單位啦來溝通協調過對外就開始講這個3加2新武專模式本期覺得不太好那當然我再請教一下現在這個新武專模式你們說在內部開過會了嘛那這個將來上路的時候有沒有涉及修法還是現行的法規我們就可以作業"},{"start":2855.998,"end":2865.135,"text":"我們是用現行的法規就可以作業的現行的法規就可以作業好 那我請教一下3加2高神念了這個3年 科大念了2年那未來誰要去3加4"},{"start":2866.687,"end":2868.888,"text":"你說邊讀書是指3加2還是3加4?我跟你說當然是有 但是不是全部阿"},{"start":2890.839,"end":2913.726,"text":"所以你今天把3加2推出來我就請教一下未來3加4的部分誰要去讀那會不會造成科大其實現在也是很擔憂那3加2那本來可以收4年的學生現在變成2年這也是一個問題你有沒有考慮過這兩個是並行的我們沒有要去取代好那請教一下如果我們沒有要去取代現在到底是叫做合併還是叫做合作"},{"start":2914.206,"end":2914.666,"text":"到底要拿哪一個學位?"},{"start":2931.033,"end":2933.155,"text":"你到時候到底是科大去找高職還是高職去找科大還是教育部做媒人是哪一種?"},{"start":2951.977,"end":2975.74,"text":"他們倆其實像這個政策推出後舉例來講這樣已經有科大跟我們講說當地的高職技高就已經在找他們合作所以我們其實是希望科大跟高職一起合作去招生沒有那個一起合作啦一定是一起合作嘛你政策出來你就叫他們一起合作嘛那到底是科大要主動去找高職合作還是高職找科大合作還是你有一套政策你可以幫助他們用什麼方式去做媒合嘛這很重要呀"},{"start":2977.099,"end":2978.58,"text":"我們並沒有要強迫他們去做這個事情 沒有"},{"start":2995.613,"end":3024.023,"text":"市長我想強迫不來而且我也相信你這個政策的出發點是好意是美意但是呢本期還是要提醒您以及新上任的部長我們剛上來真的不要像過去歷任的部長一樣每一個部長上來好像都要改一下才代表自己是有這個教育的遠見我們真的要循規蹈矩按部就班來做那3加2這個政策沒有不好但是我看起來根本就還沒有一個完整的架構出來我們希望能夠更完整然後也跟相關厲害人"},{"start":3025.123,"end":3025.243,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝次長"},{"start":3060.543,"end":3060.743,"text":"葉丙成列席"},{"start":3071.837,"end":3089.874,"text":"好,次長好啊,我老實說你今天的這個口頭報告我還有點失望啊,你看啊我條列了你過去大家,你當然是人氣最紅的這個大學教授啊,你看不管是翻轉、創新、實驗、還有Coursera,還有這個創新教學都是新,就你今天一報告的還蠻傳統的。"},{"start":3091.86,"end":3106.886,"text":"所以這一點我以為你會稍微翻一下所以呢我只是期望你應該來翻轉教育部而是教育部把你捅哭變成教育部原本的一個模樣我們就一來就教育次長來我們來看一下AI而且我還是要先說一下"},{"start":3107.466,"end":3126.181,"text":"當你上任的時候很多南部的一些或是基層的老師其實很害怕身也轉、海也轉、不知道把教育轉到哪裡去然後也有很多南部的教授還是很期待你不要用台大、用台北來做出發點然後呢畢竟你的求學過程到一路到你就職的學校都是我們Top 2或是Top 1這樣子的一個基礎那怎樣的高校要怎麼走下去這是一些基層的老師所給你的一個期待"},{"start":3136.81,"end":3143.877,"text":"我們就一一來看你一直到講到這個STEM我也同意可是這是數據會說話經濟部也因為為了配合這個AI的一個趨勢說未來應該要培養20萬的AI的人才但是從你的報告還有從我們的資訊你可以顯示出我們從102年開始到111年"},{"start":3158.09,"end":3164.956,"text":"雖然是有少子化但是呢你可以看得出來STEM的學生減少的減幅大概是達到15%這是非常高的一個比率所以表示我們台灣雖然是個科技大廠但是學生願意進入這樣的一個系統的理工科的系統其實是有減少的一個趨勢"},{"start":3178.327,"end":3188.916,"text":"教育部特別提到我們希望能夠研發半導體的課程然後在112年來做示範我們先不要看你的同事講什麼你同意這件事嗎?教育部要來研發這個半導體的課程然後在我們這個高中的地方來做一些示範你覺得呢?"},{"start":3198.624,"end":3198.644,"text":"是!"},{"start":3213.823,"end":3220.27,"text":"但是呢我還是要請你來看一下你的同事也是我們臺大電子學院的張耀文院長就提到了其實呢108年弱化這個數理科才是半導體產業最大的一個殺手"},{"start":3229.139,"end":3231.442,"text":"他說那你也不用給我開什麼樣的部分我們台大目前為止對於很多學生把你送到我們台大啦 台大啊 這Top1的學校啊我們都可能對他們這個所謂的數理的基礎的核心數理 恐怕都還是要再加強 為什麼"},{"start":3245.179,"end":3248.641,"text":"99年的課綱必修課是16學分1108課綱只剩下8學分4個領域大概幾乎都可分到2學分而已我們再來看下面所以呢你看整個課綱來說的話他們認為這才是個最重要的你贊同他的講的話嗎報告委員這個可能是有誤解因為如果我們加上這個這個加深加廣的這個學分數的話其實是沒有減少的"},{"start":3270.453,"end":3270.594,"text":"我覺得還好"},{"start":3281.525,"end":3282.646,"text":"所以他的詢問能力會特別好,是不是?"},{"start":3302.66,"end":3305.641,"text":"還有一個明星高中的老師就講把中小學自然科學教育教好比半導體的課程更重要我只是要凸顯"},{"start":3330.945,"end":3349.857,"text":"目前來說呢,很多STEM的優勢正在很多人的消失,為什麼?因為很多學者在那邊都提出來我們理化教育的弱化這才是造成我們現在人才非常需要來討論的所以呢,當教育部長說誰說我們教育不好我告訴你,你真的跟他溝通一下好了,接下來我要來問一下這是必答題你是賴清德總統邀請你來當政策的嗎?"},{"start":3357.962,"end":3375.484,"text":"所以不是賴清德總統?為什麼?因為你要被他的教育政策來做背書你看他這個部分來說的話包括他的雙語教育你跟他在做這個不良大叔的時候你專訪他"},{"start":3376.585,"end":3380.669,"text":"他特別提出了2030四雙語教育的政策你身為高教的這個部分你覺得有沒有機會還有呢他也特別在他的就職演說當中認為應該遞出橄欖枝然後呢對於大陸的學生應該來做一個開放你目前為止掌管高教你有跟其他的學校來討論過陸生入學的這樣的相關的細節嗎"},{"start":3399.808,"end":3416.178,"text":"我們現在在陸生這件事情確實是我們是一直是我們現在是非常的有善意我們是抱著你開始跟這些大學來做這樣的處理了嗎但是現在的關鍵是在於說我們現在得到這個沒有問題你下面跟這些大學的部分裡面招生裡面討論這件事情"},{"start":3418.119,"end":3420.441,"text":"接下來他的雙語教育目前為止高就要執行EMR的全英語的課程那這是選擇題嗎還是必須要"},{"start":3443.081,"end":3464.687,"text":"你認為專業比較重要還是用一堆不通順的英文來教專業比較重要?報告章偉這個是學校來申請的所以並不是我們強迫他所以是個選項我告訴各位目前來說我們私校招收外籍的學生對英文來說你認為他有沒有門檻就你的理解你說私校招收外籍學生"},{"start":3465.807,"end":3482.222,"text":"有門檻沒有,現在你只要進來其實都可以所以呢這就是一個非常大的一個問題非常多這些很多學生都不是來自於英文不是他們的母語我們的大學老師也不是母語所以大家人就是用非母語的這語言都來做這樣一個教學而且呢國發會和教育部還攜手鼓勵非常多的移工來台灣念大學"},{"start":3488.547,"end":3489.749,"text":"次長,你知道很多東南亞的學生來台灣,念書最大的誘因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":3508.055,"end":3527.07,"text":"我跟委員報告因為我們在這個新南向的這個專班其實我們在招生基地我們都有華語的課他要上到要檢定到A2的等級他才能夠來談我先問我剛剛問的問題你有點太緊張我問他說你覺得讓這些人到我們這邊來念書最大的誘因是什麼這些段小學生我想工作可能是他一個很大的誘因"},{"start":3527.09,"end":3542.254,"text":"是不是所以說打工很容易然後又有很多獎學金但我們台灣本土學生都沒有這麼多獎學金的時候他們比別人拿到更多的獎學金而且一拿就可以拿到工作證而且教育部只規定只規定你每週工作時數最多20小時但是呢很多時候國際處根本就沒有辦法從這個學校到底有沒有打工超時沒有辦法做到這樣的一個處理難怪非常多的東南亞學生過來而且你從106年開始你知道我們現在最多的東南亞學生是哪一國嗎"},{"start":3556.698,"end":3583.099,"text":"越南現在是越南之前是馬來西亞但是馬來西亞你可以看得出來他們增幅很大但現在已經急速下降為什麼因為中國大陸提供他們更大的一個誘因了所以我個人建議當中來說呢我覺得次長因為你的辨識度很高你應該你也不用為福出巡你就大膽的去出巡一下事實上我們投入這麼多高教的資源在我們這些地方當中我說實在你真的是可以把新南向的政策好好給翻轉一下"},{"start":3585.031,"end":3611.902,"text":"可以嗎?你這個績效來說我們現在遭受不到一些所謂真正的英語系的國家反而來自這新南向的國家這些以我在大學教學的一個經驗來說這些學生來對他們來說學費便宜有獎學金然後又可以打工我覺得這個對我們來說的話這個是我們台灣吸引新南向學生最大的一個目標嗎?這樣的聲援有辦法真正救到我們要急於平民邊"},{"start":3612.902,"end":3641.932,"text":"最後一個問題就是說有關我們私校的問題非常多人目前來說我們預估可能還有40所私校學校也面臨倒閉然後呢現在開始就有很多不僅是老師未來的出入問題還有包括他們未來該怎麼樣流浪教師還有更少人願意念博士然後未來的這個高教可能會面臨很多師資的不足這麼零零種種的問題你覺得有沒有一個可以解決的方法簡短的方式"},{"start":3642.532,"end":3667.054,"text":"我想先澄清一下跟召委報告40幾家裡面其實很多我們大學目前其實是沒有這種專輔的學校所以那個比較多大家在媒體上講可能比較是高中職這個部分我覺得40幾個學校裡面有人說60幾有人說40幾或許不是在明年可是照這樣的模式一直走下去的話我相信在未來10年之內"},{"start":3669.296,"end":3681.8,"text":"這樣的一個比率是非常高所以我才會特別提醒私校已經面臨一個所謂的退場的潮流流浪老師不願念博士所以大部分為了補足聲援都是來自不曉得要講什麼語言的新南下這些學生這都是我們台灣高等教育一個最大的問題我還是強調一次為了配合AI"},{"start":3690.762,"end":3691.342,"text":"我覺得這個數理基礎是重要的沒錯"},{"start":3708.407,"end":3708.867,"text":"接下來請林倩琦委員"},{"start":3739.462,"end":3740.023,"text":"謝謝張偉 我們有請葉政次次長"},{"start":3747.216,"end":3769.843,"text":"好,次長您好今天是本席跟您第一次的這個質詢那麼今天我們是針對這個喊了很久的這個面對少子化那麼高教如何來經營創新以及提高競爭力那今天的這個專報我想簡單來講就是因為您的辨識度很高所以我們也知道您以創意讓我們"},{"start":3772.364,"end":3798.501,"text":"感到很有希望所以我們期待透過您的創意能夠來對私校的問題還有這個高教的體系找到一些解方所以呢我想您應該知道私校倒閉是一個現在勢而且是未來的趨勢是吧目前有問題的學校其實已經都處理得差不多所以現在的學校其實大家都還在蠻努力的在轉型在經營"},{"start":3803.174,"end":3822.212,"text":"我不曉得您對於現在能不能找到這樣一個即時的解方有什麼樣子的看法?其實其中我想就是說我們是在鼓勵學校因應這個時代的改變還有它的當地聚落的特色去思考說它的學校可以怎麼樣轉型比如說像道江他們就轉型成為這個做長照"},{"start":3823.493,"end":3823.513,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":3842.833,"end":3867.895,"text":"二零三零之前我們要能夠招募到二十一萬人所以其實這個也是一個蠻大的一個私校的機會所以目前我們在這個所謂新南向專班這些在幾個國家 越南、印尼、菲律賓的這些招生基地其實很多的這些私校都很積極的在那邊招募學生也招募到我們最近在看的基地也招募到一些不錯的學生大概每年大概四、五千人"},{"start":3869.426,"end":3893.724,"text":"好的謝謝次長您這邊的一個說明本席今天想要強調的是這幾個月來倒閉潮其實持續發生那我們知道7月31號即將又有幾所學校倒閉那麼您這個解方我不曉得是不是有點魂不濟己您剛才講的是對於未來產業需要的人才那剛才結尾也這個非常的"},{"start":3896.71,"end":3898.571,"text":"我相信在你旁邊的司長應該可以跟您做一些分享"},{"start":3913.781,"end":3927.936,"text":"本席今天想要提的幾點來跟次長就教一下現在其實廢校整個有一個前奏跟危機那我想你應該知道偏鄉地區還有人口年長化以及外移的"},{"start":3928.677,"end":3928.697,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":3946.452,"end":3965.86,"text":"這個可能要很認真的思考另外,廢校連帶造成學區產業鏈的這個終止其實又影響了數以千計的家庭這個問題其實不只在學校可能未來整個社會也是一個很大的問題所以這個是本席跟您這邊提醒的廢校前的一個前奏跟危機那接下來本席要跟您說"},{"start":3967.34,"end":3982.572,"text":"有關於您在教育部在這個費校的整體的還有私校高校未來的一個發展那整體的這個狀況本席其實在先前提出了幾個法案的修訂那本席曾經針對私校法62條那這個"},{"start":3985.214,"end":4003.622,"text":"我們知道過去有相關的捐贈然後跟抵稅但是本席在這邊提到就是私校的捐款全數抵稅的這個部分跟私校法本席也提到了24條那對於畢業校友或優良的企業應該做一個評估跟接受那這個或許次長回去可以思考一下因為"},{"start":4005.303,"end":4026.6,"text":"這個部分62條或許大家可以來討論但是對於怎麼樣很多企業都是因為他那個要被廢掉的或是有危險的這個學校是他過去念過的學校那這些校友對於學校有一些感情那當然台大或者是我們念的學校可能都還不會有這樣的問題可是在地方上很多的學校都面臨這樣的問題而且即將就來到了"},{"start":4029.322,"end":4052.916,"text":"不是只有你們有沒有輔導的學校而是這個趨勢許多人算過20年內不會有私立學校了我不知道那個部裡面有沒有好好算過這樣一個數據那這樣一個狀況你怎麼樣現在推出來的政策都有點管不濟己那如何去處理現階段我們所看到的問題那接下來這個24條有一些人說這是這個突應條例但是很重要的一點就是"},{"start":4057.378,"end":4074.191,"text":"你能夠有什麼方式讓現在真正已經碰到問題而且不願意倒的如果他要安樂死那是另外一個問題或者是他要提前趕快處理就像剛才萬元委員所講的那你們還要去解釋一下那這些提前就直接倒掉的學校那你們又如何處理"},{"start":4075.566,"end":4077.848,"text":"本席希望教育部不要做的只有非常消極的列管"},{"start":4090.845,"end":4107.385,"text":"接受低價收購跟拆解分割那這樣子你不覺得這有失教育部的格調嗎這樣子的這個做法其實不夠有點低階啦也不夠教育部的格調所以你們在這個部分可不可以更有積極的作為"},{"start":4108.626,"end":4113.609,"text":"議員提到62條這件事情我覺得精神上原則上我們其實精神上我們是認同的但是就是說他的捐贈怎麼樣確保他的捐贈就是不會被濫用變成避稅或逃稅的這個監管這個部分我們覺得說這個我們還可以再研議"},{"start":4133.143,"end":4157.015,"text":"主要就是很不積極的東西你如何在現階段能夠處理那當然修法是一個方式那另外一個就是你如何投入一些資源把一些有特色的學校或者是它其實是經營的很好的學校那因為某種很小的原因結果就面臨了你們把它輔導或者是你現在說我們沒有輔導的學校可是問題是長久下去以台灣的狀況這些學校很多學校還是會碰到問題"},{"start":4158.075,"end":4181.749,"text":"所以不僅你們要趕快處理現在的問題而且未來的問題我相信你們現在也必須要很積極的處理另外您剛才萬委員這邊提到你們講到3加2的這個新武裝模式當然聽起來大家很震撼但是呢我剛才萬委員講的希望您能夠回去好好地做個思考另外我這邊提醒您的就是您在講3加2的新武裝模式然後科大跟高職的一個結合"},{"start":4182.349,"end":4197.942,"text":"其實萬委員剛才有問到就是說你如何招生這個是很直接的問題我們在好的國立院校或者是好的私校可能不會碰到這樣的問題可是在地方上太多的學校這十幾年都是這樣子的問題所以你們必須要思考那這樣一個大概"},{"start":4198.722,"end":4221.121,"text":"問年是這個招生的狀況兩個不太可能一起去招生但是呢你們這樣子的一個結果又拿到的是副學士的學位那以台灣家長來講副學士跟學士的差異我想這中間還是有一些考量所以你這個政策是不是能夠執行那它又跟過去的政策的差別在哪裡那如何有效的再做一些誘因應該是你這邊要"},{"start":4223.303,"end":4246.865,"text":"在更快一點、更整密一點的思考另外接下來你們有一個P-TECH新武專的模式我想這個都因為一些產業的導向這個產業的導向其實過去你們當然有幾個駐點讓中部、北部、南部有一些公專做一個駐點的基地但是我們知道其實有"},{"start":4250.768,"end":4252.249,"text":"主導的曾淑慧教授有說﹖"},{"start":4280.388,"end":4302.93,"text":"會留給社會,那我們教育是應該這樣子的嗎?我跟委員報告,所以這是為什麼我們希望透過新武專的方式讓這個曾經在台灣扮演很重要角色的武專能夠透過這樣的形式能夠因為我們現在看到幾個武專部這個現有的武專其實他都經營的蠻好的而且武專畢業的學生他的"},{"start":4303.73,"end":4313.074,"text":"謝謝次長那您在推動新武專的時候我認為您是不是可以好好的去了解一下過去的武專對台灣社會的貢獻那您在新武專這個部分真的也必須要跟大家談一談那您在新武專的這個概念中間有沒有哪一些部分沒有思考齊全的"},{"start":4333.082,"end":4348.416,"text":"所以我們不希望老是推出一個新的東西大家無所適從那其實原有的東西它其實相對穩定一個社會可以有創新但是我們必須在大家都懂的而且有對話的、了解的創新下它才會是創新要不然可能就是一陣混亂"},{"start":4349.416,"end":4363.684,"text":"今天看到你們報告我們知道這個部裡面是很有誠意但是我覺得我們不應該將少子化一直作為藉口這已經喊了20年那在剛開始的時候我們想大家都知道問題可是我們沒有解決跟處理這個問題讓我們喊了20年我不認為這個問題應該繼續喊下去這是一個"},{"start":4368.166,"end":4368.626,"text":"接下來我們請葛如君委員"},{"start":4408.552,"end":4411.093,"text":"謝謝主席 有請教育部葉丙成次長備詢"},{"start":4419.295,"end":4438.72,"text":"感謝次長很高興可以今天在這邊跟您有這樣子非常希望是會有影響力的對話那我想這個最近黃仁勳訪台聯一還持續那這個正在尋找輝達正在尋找地點來蓋新的或者是額外的總部"},{"start":4439.94,"end":4455.31,"text":"昨天經濟部的郭部長我一直非常支持他在能源政策有機會創新但他在備詢的時候說他要求揮打自帶50%的人才來台避免大量聘僱AI專才的工程師造成本地人才排擠的效應"},{"start":4456.511,"end":4478.374,"text":"我當然也覺得有一點創意因為有可能帶進來的人才可以做本地人才的培育但是在過去像鴻海在威斯康辛州設廠人家州政府的要求卻是要做local hire, global pay所以我想請教一下次長教育部做的人才培育的主責部會你怎麼看待經濟部長這樣的一個說法跟做法"},{"start":4480.086,"end":4494.871,"text":"跟委員報告,因為我自己從新創這個來的,那我們自己看到說其實這個大公司來台灣,其實對新創的產業來,新創公司來其實又愛又怕,但來他有機會帶進來一些新的know-how"},{"start":4495.732,"end":4523.895,"text":"但他同時間也會產生這個人才的磁吸效益那以我自己過去經驗來看臺灣很多學生進入到這些大型的外商公司比如說進入到Google或是這些公司像我的學生我進去以後我就沒有看到他們出來過那到底該進去還是要不進去啊所以像在美國的矽谷的話很多是他們去Google做個三年五年的事情他們就出來創業讓他們自己來業界但這樣的文化在臺灣還比較沒有出現所以您是支持郭部長這樣一半一半"},{"start":4524.454,"end":4544.503,"text":"我覺得我支持郭部長這一半一半的這樣的概念好很好那我們剛剛是這個其中一個例子而已那這樣到底對不對我們還是持續討論但是我們還有其他的企業也在加碼希望能夠來做本地的人才不管是排擠擴大還是培育我覺得有事情發生都是好事"},{"start":4545.243,"end":4553.809,"text":"我們來看一下當然排擠不是好事這個教育部要關注一下那我們來看這個投影片在這一頁裡面就可以看到台積電也要投入不超過40億最多40億去做半導體研究教學的人才培育"},{"start":4560.433,"end":4561.014,"text":"我們自己也有國家方案 也有"},{"start":4586.969,"end":4609.805,"text":"我想就是說這個不可諱言啦,半導體其實目前這個產業在台灣扮演相當重要的角色這是為什麼很多委員會關心說讀STEM的人有沒有增加或減少所以我們也看到就是說像台積電這個願意做這樣的事情我們其實是樂見但我覺得從教育部的立場是我們也必須要關注到說這個必須要平衡"},{"start":4610.666,"end":4611.847,"text":"黃宏勳在台大的演講點名了17所大學"},{"start":4638.12,"end":4654.828,"text":"但我們查了一下全台大專業院校150所左右跟人工智慧有關的系所或學程超過40所那想請教一下次長對這個有沒有看法就是他們跳下來自救也好啦幫助台灣也好啦但我們政府不能就在這邊拍拍手什麼都不做嘛"},{"start":4655.268,"end":4659.975,"text":"那我們到底是應該要強化就是說欸井上添花還是說我們應該要米平落差還是說兩手一攤這個問題我們在總質詢也提過想請教一下您的看法是什麼我們到底是要加碼加碼在一樣的地方還是我要米平落差還是我們就坐地觀望"},{"start":4672.486,"end":4672.586,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4703.106,"end":4716.014,"text":"我很贊成次長這樣的說法其實人才的培育、施肢也很重要那也希望可以持續在這一塊做一點準備我們未來還有更多的交流為什麼?其實這已經不只是台灣的問題國際都在關注了我這已經是大概第N次講了《紐約時報》3月指出中國大陸的AI的人才已經超過五成了我們現在一定要提早做準備"},{"start":4725.219,"end":4743.637,"text":"我們不要用兩三年後甚至可能不用兩三年我們又要來檢討說我們的AI人才從哪裡來的問題加上我們這個高階的人才很可能還有不足的問題我們看到這個相關的業界的調查提到博士誘因低科研人才所得低退休所得低有很多的3D現象"},{"start":4745.058,"end":4769.942,"text":"這些現象其實在日本有一些新的做法來做就是日本是2023年的8月份就說要向頂尖AI人才每年發放2000萬日幣我相信這個可能也包含人才也包含師資也包含產業那我想這種激勵的政策可能非常的重要那到底我們要怎麼做呢這個次長能不能發表一點點看法簡短的"},{"start":4770.59,"end":4797.655,"text":"我想說我覺得臺灣我們必須要有些事情我們必須要做的事情就是說其實我們自己這個培養出來的本土的PhD博士我覺得他們其實誇大體都非常好包括像我們現在人工智慧我們今天像李鴻毅教授或是像我想像保博士也是就是我們臺灣本土的博士我覺得相對於這個國際的業界在搶人我們自己必須要開始要培養這樣子的PhD的人來做我們未來的師資的這個未來儲備好我想"},{"start":4799.455,"end":4799.715,"text":"委員報告．"},{"start":4822.875,"end":4823.895,"text":"我想這還只是一個開始其實整個環境都在變化"},{"start":4842.6,"end":4858.866,"text":"包括我們研究生很優秀了可是他要有好的設備跟環境可以來運用這些算力嘛那我們的理解其實是這樣啦其實曾經有這個鼎大就開始在講說我們自己做了很多超級電腦笑笑買算力笑笑會不會算力都不足啊"},{"start":4859.626,"end":4877.964,"text":"蘇發部有一個、教育部有一個、國科有一個、經濟部會議又搞一個我們還有這個國家高速網路中心也搞一個我們各大學院校又搞一個那裡面的這個所謂的調動算力的這個界面又有點不一樣這個我們能不能做一個統合先是不是您回應一下有沒有一個統合的計畫"},{"start":4878.564,"end":4883.266,"text":"我聽說是各校又會編列他的計畫又再買一些GPU可能這個校又買了幾顆H100那個校又買了幾顆V100這個是不是可以稍微調查一下"},{"start":4902.012,"end":4917.352,"text":"希望讓大家可以集中起來但是當然有需要的話各自買一些也可以但是我覺得教育部應該要有一個統籌的觀點同時這還只是一部分我們剛剛講interface也很重要其實我有聽過鼎大有計算機中心或算力池"},{"start":4917.853,"end":4940.135,"text":"學生或老師就說這個interface不太好用要調動這個數據啦進出啦要重集啦cluster的這些運作啦其實用AWS可能還比較快當然我們只是舉例啦想請教一下次長教育部有沒有考慮乾脆直接補助大專業院校去購買或者合作這些國際大廠國際大廠都要來成立算力中心了嘛"},{"start":4940.675,"end":4951.512,"text":"有沒有機會能夠考慮不要用太多的時間和金錢土法煉鋼到時候各校的界面又長得不一樣每一個中心的界面又長得不一樣讓人可以專注在研究本身"},{"start":4953.356,"end":4972.109,"text":"其實我覺得剛剛委員講的這個觀念是非常好,就是這件事情這些台灣的率領應該盡量的能夠有機會統籌,一起來管理還有界面,還不是只是顯卡的問題那這個部分也因為這樣,所以因為目前是國防中心在做這樣的事情,我覺得從教育部的角度我們樂見這樣的事情,但是我們不宜這個另外在"},{"start":4973.07,"end":4974.271,"text":"昨天有跟部長稍微簡要的討論"},{"start":4990.899,"end":5014.617,"text":"本土語言教材其實是我們未來面對到大AI時代的一個非常重要的一個點也就是我們的文化如何在AI時代可以保存甚至發揚光大我們目前看到的很多AI教材學生學都已經很困難了之前這個昭偉有讓我們練過這個台語課程我回家還練習了兩次那這些內容其實也都是非常多人精心編轉的"},{"start":5015.718,"end":5037.698,"text":"這些內容有沒有機會交給AI時代的AI同學我覺得這也是一種翻轉教育嘛以前我們當然您是這一塊的專家啦翻轉教育是我們課程內容可以先準備了學生可以先學習之後呢再來跟老師練習或討論或跟同學討論我們現在的AI在全世界的網路上面學東西可是他們卻沒有拿到我們母語的"},{"start":5039.94,"end":5042.723,"text":"請問一下次長有沒有了解過現階段本土語言教材開放給AI訓練使用的可能性,實務上的困難有什麼?"},{"start":5065.466,"end":5088.167,"text":"這個部分其實像在臺大李鴻毅教授其實我在之前在當次長之前我們之前就有這些合作過什麼透過AI去幫孩子用講臺語然後他給臺灣臺語他給他評分這樣子但這件事情就是要再如果要再整合到現有的系統裡面包括我想現在這個英才網也有在做一些這個這方面把AI的導入我想這也是未來我們可能會努力的方向"},{"start":5088.467,"end":5089.607,"text":"希望教育部可以在一個月內提供相關"},{"start":5118.294,"end":5122.556,"text":"的意見回覆,可以嗎?好,沒有問題謝謝主席接下來我們請葉元之委員麻煩請次長葉丙成,次長謝謝好,次長次長"},{"start":5147.287,"end":5155.54,"text":"就是我們在報告裡面有看到我們現在有推一個叫做大學生跟計畫嘛那裡面有一個是USR嘛那現在USR進行到第幾期了"},{"start":5158.818,"end":5186.633,"text":"從106開始第幾期?第三期現在第三期那第四期什麼時候要開始?第四期從明年114明年114開始這已經確定了嗎?現在大學有在講一個疑慮說教育部現在好像有在規劃說第四期結束之後就要把它停掉了有這件事情嗎?完全沒有對不對?所以大學有點多慮了所以這個USR計畫會一直持續下去是不是?"},{"start":5187.916,"end":5210.238,"text":"我問次長就確定齁?確定USR計畫會一直持續下去?確定齁?我補充一下跟委員報告我們第四期是114到116這三年一定會把它執行完後續我們會來規劃下一期那下一期經費我們也會持續的來爭取那如果是這樣的話那當然就是"},{"start":5211.159,"end":5237.989,"text":"對大學來說就可以放心為什麼?因為我想跟次長報告其實我個人認為說這個USR就是大學社會實踐計畫其實是蠻應該做的因為當初教育部在推動這個計畫的時候有強調我們要以人為本在地連結、科技輔助讓學生從做中學社區結合那因為有結合SDGs的16項計畫所以在我們社會上各個層面其實都有發揮一定的作用"},{"start":5239.189,"end":5264.494,"text":"特別是我覺得可以加強開放高齡的這個項目為什麼?因為明年就是超高齡化社會就我所知有一些大學在做高齡這個項目實際上是做得不錯的而且我非常鼓勵大學來做這一塊我當然知道坊間有很多單位都在做高齡教育但是大學有其他單位沒有的特質比如第一個我們大學裡面有研究能量"},{"start":5265.234,"end":5287.263,"text":"所以在大學推廣高齡教育的USR計畫的時候他可以透過他們的研究能量來訂定一個比較嚴謹的前中後側可以確定說長者參與這個計畫之後他實質在活躍老化這一塊不管在身體心靈或是人際健康各方面他都有一定的成長這個是有科學數據可以驗證的就不像說有一些"},{"start":5288.203,"end":5316.732,"text":"有一些單位也許就是說請長輩來上個課但是到最後上完課到底得到什麼有沒有效果其實它那個是沒有辦法量化跟質化所以大學做這個我覺得有第一個優勢第二個優勢是在大學特別是我覺得教育部應該更鼓勵這一塊就是親迎共學我們現在教育部是不是也有在鼓勵代兼學習有嗎有相關的計畫嗎代兼學習親迎共學親迎共榮還有很多講法"},{"start":5325.65,"end":5338.236,"text":"但是我覺得在大學裡面可以促進親共學習因為我有了解一些在大學推廣的這種長輩的方案實際上那些長輩到大學裡面他看到很多大學生"},{"start":5339.662,"end":5366.329,"text":"在他的周邊實際上他們覺得心情都變輕鬆了而且他們願意很願意走入校園裡面去跟大學生打成一片而且不管是長輩對青年或者是這些大學生看長輩長時間相處下來對於彼此的刻板印象都有消除的作用所以青年共學這塊是非常重要還有第三個可能次長或者是司長不太了解你知道我跟長輩聊過他們去大學上這種課"},{"start":5367.829,"end":5388.323,"text":"他們會對那個大學有認同感會刺激他們不斷想要再去會延長他們的終身學習因為也許說他們在年輕的時候沒有上大學但他現在可能就覺得說我是一個某某大學的學生我每天去上課了跟家人說我要去上學了其實對他來說是有一個強烈認同感這對於回味老化是有幫助"},{"start":5389.784,"end":5414.614,"text":"我還建議說教育部你可以考慮啦如果是在大學辦的這種高齡教育課程你可以頒一個畢業證書或者是發個學生證給他們讓他們感覺說真的是屬於大學的一份子可以讓他們更願意喔那所以我在這邊就建議啦因為因應2025超高齡社會竟然教育部剛剛也承諾了像這USR計畫就社會實驗計畫沒有要停嘛第四期要繼續嘛"},{"start":5415.894,"end":5440.527,"text":"那第5期我希望第5期第6期第7期都可以繼續下去因為大學現在擔心的是你把它斷掉之後要求大學自籌經費但他如果說沒有自籌經費沒有籌住成功的話這整個計畫斷掉那一方面我覺得很可惜第二方面這個計畫有延續性在延續當中的成果會因此的中斷所以不知道說剛剛這樣建議就是說兩個一個是一個確定了嘛計畫要繼續延續第二個是"},{"start":5444.989,"end":5450.597,"text":"增加高齡教育的這塊的補助的項目跟名額 這不知道這可不可以做到"},{"start":5452.293,"end":5475.357,"text":"我想我們這個高齡的這部分我們之前都有補助成立這個樂齡的學習中心然後結合這個大學來辦這個樂齡這個大學然後補助還有補助高齡的這個自主學習團體所以我想委員在講這個事情我們已經在做我就說因應超高齡化社會而且我覺得教育部也要去研究一下你們現在的高齡教育排批書是什麼時候訂的什麼時候訂的"},{"start":5481.877,"end":5490.703,"text":"因為我們有第二期的高齡教育忠誠計劃在執行計劃是什麼時候定的?我們基本上因為是第二期了對第二期的話我們是110...110...對不起那個時間110...108年到113年108年定的嘛對不對今年是113年已經過了五年了嘛"},{"start":5507.894,"end":5522.109,"text":"而且這五年間我們的高齡社會已經翻轉式的改變了啦次長都強調翻轉教育嘛因為現在高齡人口已經成為我們社會的主流了對吧"},{"start":5523.174,"end":5539.075,"text":"所以我們就研究一下了解一下到底現在我們的長輩們到底是需要什麼過去對長輩思維我覺得已經落伍了啦過去可能就覺得說讓長輩可能給點補助或者是讓他有一點健康"},{"start":5539.756,"end":5540.036,"text":"拜託教育部"},{"start":5570.356,"end":5594.788,"text":"我想跟委員報告我非常認同委員剛才講的所以我們其實我們現在已經在規劃就是說這個壯世代的多元學習其實過去可能比較高齡的長者那什麼時候會有那個剛講那個什麼白皮書什麼時候會出來白皮書可能還要一點時間但我們很多政策是讓壯世代可以剛才提到這第三你要有一個上位概念來推嘛你現在上位概念都還沒有確定"},{"start":5598.651,"end":5622.022,"text":"我再問一下很多大學現在覺得說少子化的問題他們現在面臨一個挑戰叫接觸學生這我之前有提過就是說因為他們現在要接108課綱的小朋友那108課綱的小朋友因為在高中的時候可能因為必修課減少了所以基礎的學習變弱了到大學之後一些比如說普通的物理、微積分什麼的跟不上"},{"start":5623.238,"end":5652.006,"text":"他們開始懷疑說他上大學是不是自己素質不好所以很多大學現在在補救教學這是一個很大的問題因為次長也來自於大學嘛我不知道說我們今天雖然談的是高等教育有沒有可能回過去討論一下108課綱對於高中的影響因為它也影響到大學這部分有沒有可能有調整的空間還是你們就打算以後反正上大學再補救就好了"},{"start":5653.651,"end":5670.819,"text":"我覺得這個問題還有它的一些因素比如說像我們現在是這個大學的二階段就是它有推薦跟考試分發但很多學生他就是推薦上了以後他就跟學校請假那他就要解決嘛因為我講的是問題嘛對不對我講的是問題那教育部應該如果發現有這個問題就是說現在的高中生上來之後還要大學開補救教學"},{"start":5676.561,"end":5680.263,"text":"我的重點應該是說大學應該不需要開補救教學應該是說高中就應該具備基本的高中的素質"},{"start":5695.752,"end":5696.052,"text":"接下來我們請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":5730.627,"end":5731.328,"text":"謝主席,請次長好,次長"},{"start":5738.357,"end":5756.176,"text":"市長早安在報告裡面說高教生跟第一期推動的成果第一期的計劃五年總共補助了837億元是以學生為主體教學核心是協助各大專案院校提升教學品質落實教學創新以及發展各校特色"},{"start":5756.736,"end":5779.633,"text":"那其中跨領域課程修課有106學年度的6萬多人提升到110學年度的28萬多人次增加了22萬3千多人次成長的比例高達342%那次長這樣的成果這樣的人次休息人次您肯定跨領域修課的成效嗎?"},{"start":5780.943,"end":5807.617,"text":"跟委員報告這個數據因為其實跟委員這個數據其實是涵蓋了碩博士的學生夜間部如果只看大學部的這個招這個休退學人數的話在111學年度的這個休學人數是三萬五千多人雖然我的圖表是這個我還沒講那裡我是問說這個跨領域休息的這個成長的這個百分比有百分之三百您覺得滿意嗎"},{"start":5809.258,"end":5827.516,"text":"我們對這個事情我覺得是一個很不錯的一個進步您不要緊張我覺得次長應該是會肯定這個成效但是好我們現在回到我的圖表我的這個頭一片就是這個休退學這個人數我看到這個表"},{"start":5827.756,"end":5844.984,"text":"其實110學年度的上下兩個學期學士的退學人數分別是兩萬八千多跟一萬一千多一萬四千多那另外有3.2萬名的學生是休學狀態那退學的樣態大宗就是覺得志趣不合跟休學預期會沒有復學"},{"start":5846.485,"end":5872.111,"text":"所以累計下來到了110年度呢我們有9萬多的這個休學人數跟8萬多的退學人數那這樣的人數其實我們1008課剛剛不是要適興教學跟多元學習嗎那這麼高的休退學人數尤其原住民的休學人數休退學人數各是3200多跟3400多那次長你覺得這個原因是在哪裡"},{"start":5873.671,"end":5889.835,"text":"委員報告,如果看休學的人數的話,現在看到這個八萬九萬這個數字是涵蓋的碩博士學生還有夜間部的學生,如果把這些扣除的話,在111學年度的這個休學人數是35771人,大概比110學年度降了大概一兩千人。可是真的是很高啊。"},{"start":5895.776,"end":5898.478,"text":"事實上我們重點不在於說人數少了或人數多了"},{"start":5910.868,"end":5930.331,"text":"他們說這樣多的學生他們選擇休退學我們去探究他原因在哪裡因為我們的課綱不是就是世青教學及多元學習嗎那在他們選擇的這個過程裡面是不是已經他有找到他的志向所以才去念大學選擇這樣的科系但是念了之後他又休退學是我們哪裡出了問題"},{"start":5931.672,"end":5958.752,"text":"這個應該這樣就是以對秩序不合而決定修退學的學生這個比例上大概百分之三十左右也就是這裡面大概是一萬多人那我必須講就是說108課上路之後我們當然期望更多學生其實因為探索他自己興趣的入學但也不可諱言我們這個社會還是有不少的家庭跟學生他其實還是認為說就是分數到哪裡沒有填哪個科系很可惜所以這是我們要努力的怎麼樣讓這樣的想法的學生能夠"},{"start":5959.232,"end":5971.941,"text":"讓學生可以真正的選擇到跟自己秩序相合的科系來就讀這個我覺得是我們應該去協助學生來了解這一塊再來就針對於教育經費的部分我們從圖表來看"},{"start":5974.318,"end":5990.71,"text":"我們雖然整體的教育預算從103的年度的8435億到111年有增加到9800多億但是如果以比例來看在我們國內的生產毛孺的比例卻是從5.19%降到4.33%減少0.86的百分比那這個減幅就高達是16.57的百分比"},{"start":6001.118,"end":6019.349,"text":"如果說以今年我們國內的生產毛額24.6兆元來講相對比例換算台灣的教育經費比103年度換算下來是少了2116億那明年公部門的這個教育經費占GDP的這個比例呢次長你有這個"},{"start":6021.532,"end":6037.672,"text":"報告委員我們的教育經費其實是一直都提高的但是過去這10年之所以從5.19%降到4.38%是因為臺灣經濟的成長就是成長太快了所以我們教育基本拉得不夠高但是我們的教育經費其實一直是在增加的"},{"start":6037.892,"end":6050.568,"text":"那其實台大前校長陳偉昭前校長建議說中央政府的教育經費不得低於國內生產盲人的6%那高等教育的經費成長率不得低於經濟成長率次長你覺得呢"},{"start":6053.218,"end":6075.765,"text":"我們認為在教育這方面的投資但是要越來越高那但是因為到底這個比例佔多少這個其實我們也要這個是整個政府整體上來講那其實這10年關於我們私部門的教育經費也一直維持這2100億加2001之間都沒有成長甚至更低那未來私校退場之後情況可能會更惡劣那次長你覺得有沒有什麼政策可以來提高私部門的這個教育經費"},{"start":6077.813,"end":6084.302,"text":"而如果以私校這個有私校退場之後那這個教育金這個私校的預算其實他將"},{"start":6085.923,"end":6113.511,"text":"市長,2023年高等教育改革論壇臺大陳維章前校長有總結提出個具體的建議他認為說高教資源部分期望能夠規劃8千億元的高等教育前瞻計畫來全面的改善高等教育的體質市長你覺得這可行嗎?我們會不會朝這個8千億元的高等教育前瞻計畫來演繹?"},{"start":6116.454,"end":6131.517,"text":"我必須坦白講這個是有困難的因為台灣整體的預算其實規模我們沒有辦法一下子這個提升到8000億這麼多這會排擠到那我們可以逐年增加我們逐年來向行政院來爭取可以嗎"},{"start":6134.598,"end":6154.447,"text":"次長其實我們期待我們的高教為國家帶來競爭力我們教育部也要先進好我們台灣未來高教的這個方向當然教育部在去年6月有提出一個博士生的獎學金的草案分為產學合作型跟學術發展型的這個獎金那獎金分別是由政府大學企業三方來出資最多呢"},{"start":6154.787,"end":6183.62,"text":"到博山可以領到一個月有7萬塊預計今年來上路今年會補助1200名然後逐年增加明年後年回到3600名來強化我們博士生的培育機制那目前請問今年的執行成效如何這個1200名的博士生真的有領到7萬塊嗎我們現在正在接受申請那6月7日為止其實申請的學員有大概1600多人那6月14日就是再過幾天截止我們預期會到2000多人以上那他們是真的可以領到7萬嗎"},{"start":6185.682,"end":6193.338,"text":"現在是4萬那個7萬只是當初的一個這個政策構想但是真的在落實及最後定案是4萬每個月"},{"start":6195.863,"end":6198.924,"text":"我們現在沒有分產學合作型或學術發展型就是博士生都一樣所以疑慮就是現在定額是4萬"},{"start":6216.42,"end":6241.929,"text":"我們有分定額補助跟加碼的補助那學校可以訂定相關規範去針對一些他參與產學合作的他可以另外再給他的給他所以產學合作的有可能是由業者這邊提供但是我們就只有學校跟政府這邊提供我們政府給他4萬我們就是我們會給同工部門這種那顧名思義就是說會有落差如果說他是在產學合作型的那他拿到獎學金可能就會比較高"},{"start":6242.726,"end":6262.875,"text":"這個如果是他在做是一個在業界很需要的一個問題業界願意付這個費用就這是樂觀其成的所以這也難怪說為什麼金鐘北一女他們的人設班會就取消了就停招就走入歷史因為相對來講對學生來講這樣的誘因是比較高因為他如果參加這樣的計畫然後他拿到教學金會高一點的話"},{"start":6263.135,"end":6282.423,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個因為高中生跟博士生其實還有很長的一段距離所以這個可能是部分原因但可能不是完全他們但本身是希望說其實人文社會的領域也是社會的根本是希望說產業不能偏廢就覺得說我們就是在產學合作或是說我們走高科技發展的這個部門就是比較吃香那他可能相對的會比較有我"},{"start":6289.906,"end":6290.086,"text":"好,謝謝次長"},{"start":6306.168,"end":6326.502,"text":"這個部分其實我還有很多問題但是我看那個我還有一個就是關於我們在高教資源的投注的這個部分這個部分我其實要跟你們討論一下我們民間團體依照去年過去的歷史的推估今年赴中國升學的大一新鮮人可能會比"},{"start":6327.262,"end":6330.683,"text":"市長你覺得這是什麼原因?報告委員 這個數據可能是有出入的我們掌握的數據沒有像媒體講的這麼多"},{"start":6347.569,"end":6367.435,"text":"其實在英國泰晤士高等教育的特刊最新的2024的世界大學排名我們只有台大是有入前200名而且排名是在第152那中國大陸的清華大學在這個排名已經獲得世界第12所以其實目前中國的大學在全球的排名是首屈一指"},{"start":6368.735,"end":6386.589,"text":"我們已經想方設法的要延攬外國的優秀人才來台而且盡力的保護我們國內的科技人才減少外流的情況之下一年有這麼多頂尖的學生不管去中國還是去其他國家求學這就是我們高教的警訊那其實針對這個在教育資源的投注的這個部分我們來比較一下在高教發展這個投注的經費以清華大學為例台灣的清華大學是我們國內頂尖的大學"},{"start":6394.935,"end":6395.435,"text":"次長您覺得?"},{"start":6418.822,"end":6443.129,"text":"我認同,所以這也是我們持續包括在博士生怎樣幫助老師有更多的資源來收學生所以這也是我們都在持續在努力還有幫助他收學生﹚次長本席覺得其實臺灣高教的這個問題不只是少子化還有國家願意投注多少資源來後執師自己以及培養學生目前我們臺灣的高教面臨的就是資源不足人才流失、國際競爭力衰退這個問題還有我們國家缺乏未來高教的這個發展藍圖"},{"start":6447.47,"end":6453.836,"text":"所以這個部分部長您有專業也希望您能發揮您的長才為高教加油謝謝主席我現在發現主席不管是6加2、8加2或10加2其實答案都是一樣的好 謝謝所以請你們的部長不要抱怨好不好雖然他是6加2但是他得到的成果跟昨天的8加2是一樣的接下來我們請吳佩奕委員"},{"start":6481.243,"end":6484.285,"text":"謝謝主席,我請葉丙成次長好,次長委員好次長好,過去你是臺大教授也擔任過臺大D-Squad的副院長也因為創辦教育所以領過總統創新獎所以過去我們都要叫你一聲老師但是現在呢,如果比起來公部門服務的"},{"start":6504.339,"end":6513.513,"text":"司令呢我大概虛掌你幾年所以呢如果說不敢說我是學姐但如果說有一些心得可以跟你分享的話首先我想你要非常非常感謝跟珍惜我們部裡面有非常優秀跟有經驗"},{"start":6519.261,"end":6546.758,"text":"然後了解教育行政現場實作的這些同仁團隊們對我們民意代表來講常常我們有一個想法跟一個提議我們必須要想盡辦法的經過很多次的討論跟溝通最後我們可以擬出一個輪廓的方案但是如果今天我們部長、次長我們有一個新的提案要出來你有一個很堅強的團隊可以做最好的後盾然後幫我們所有的學子"},{"start":6547.739,"end":6551.381,"text":"提出一個科興並且創新的方案所以我們非常的賦予期待那次長你不可取代的優勢跟強項呢就是你過去是非常受到學生熱愛跟喜愛的老師老師非常多但是學生喜歡的老師其實也沒有那麼多所以呢我們希望對你的期待就是在教育部裡面我們要聽見來自學生主體性的聲音以及思維"},{"start":6576.035,"end":6576.255,"text":"目前我們是希望怎麼樣來推動?"},{"start":6605.118,"end":6628.517,"text":"跟委員報告就是說這個計畫我們希望是針對青年也不限於只是學生所以這個報告我們就是在18歲到35歲這裡面的這些年輕人怎麼樣讓他有機會可以去國外可以去有更多一些不一樣的經驗跟體驗再帶回來台灣那這是我們這個基金最主要在成立的目的"},{"start":6629.057,"end":6633.243,"text":"所以它也包含了進到產業學習或者是到教育機構學習的規劃都包含在內我看到你們預計要來諮詢青年學生的建議"},{"start":6642.944,"end":6664.698,"text":"我們目前打算怎麼做?我們會來舉辦座談會嗎?到校園裡面去嗎?還是怎麼來辦?我們有透過青年署去跟很多過去合作過的很多青年的團體 跟他們收集意見就是說就這個圓夢基金 大家覺得說怎麼樣做會更切合大家的需要這是我們現在正在收集的"},{"start":6664.818,"end":6675.563,"text":"收集意見我覺得非常重要那也希望要加入來自專家團體的建議包括來自食物界的產業界的能夠來協助我們這個計畫我們最希望是能夠提升青年學子的國際視野那也來提早培養產業的人才那講到這個技職教育體系其實我們也非常的重視我看到部長最近也提到"},{"start":6692.19,"end":6703.638,"text":"因為我們台灣這幾年我們有一個發展非常進步幅度很大就是我們太空產業太空產業計畫我們已經進到第三期了我們現在正在進行衛星的自主研發我們也在籌備我們的火箭發射廠同時台灣的大廠也已經打進國際的產業鏈所以我們其實是相當有規模所以我看到部長他在舉例說我們未來要來提升技職教育的時候他舉例也許我們可以來成立一個太空學校"},{"start":6723.491,"end":6750.689,"text":"這對台灣來講會是一個創舉在歐盟有太空總署美國太空中心都有教育方案那我們如果以即職學校的方式來成立太空學校這是一個非常先驅的做法所以說這個目前也是還在討論規劃當中那我們希望未來如果進行規劃一樣是要有來自教育界來自產業界的各方的意見進來"},{"start":6751.57,"end":6754.624,"text":"讓他做一個比較完備跟完整的規劃好不好"},{"start":6757.025,"end":6781.41,"text":"好,然後我也非常關心的是過去我在台北市議會當時我們就看到我們台北的北流中心跟我們教育部國教署有一個合作計畫就是要來推廣流行音樂的課程模組那國教署來找到種子教師跟北流一起合作進行培訓就是希望我們這些老師學習到了我們音樂的創作"},{"start":6786.191,"end":6801.727,"text":"來提出這個模組之後回到學校裡面去再去推廣這個流行音樂教育然後培養更多的教師人才所以我想請問這個計畫因為也進行了3、4年了嘛我們目前的種子教師回去這個種子有沒有開花結果這個部分我可能是請國教室的副組長幫我們報告一下"},{"start":6807.87,"end":6829.863,"text":"我想這些老師回到學校之後應該可以就是以他在這個計畫裡頭所學的課程然後就是會運用在他學校的那個課程裡面這些我們都是非常鼓勵的可以活化學校的課程好我需要你們提出具體的數字給我們"},{"start":6830.763,"end":6832.804,"text":"最後要跟這個次長討論我非常關心的北一大北一大的校長室開箱經過媒體的報導結果引來一陣風波然後呢這個媒體的IG變成學校對於學校宿舍"},{"start":6854.352,"end":6860.595,"text":"但為何學校現在宿舍的狀況看起來以學生的反應來說看起來是有非常多的問題所以教育部我們去了解了沒有"},{"start":6872.882,"end":6894.81,"text":"我們去了解他們的這個我們在110年已經補助了學校這個這個宿舍的這個共同生活圈的整體改善工程計畫我們已經補助了他這個預算是2576萬元目前這是他們的選擇啦他們現在是先完成了學生餐廳這邊的整建那宿舍這一塊是在宿舍什麼時候要開始修"},{"start":6900.274,"end":6924.631,"text":"因為已經有非常多學生在反映了所以我希望教育部你們要到現場去了解不要再坐在辦公室了我們有沒有要派員去學校了解我已經派員去了解過了禮拜二要去現場了解了解的情況要讓大家知道我們需要更充足的資訊那另外此次事件當中我非常關注因為北一大校內有老師指出"},{"start":6925.171,"end":6925.552,"text":"這教育部有聽過這個消息嗎?"},{"start":6944.69,"end":6972.926,"text":"我們從來沒有砍過北一大校方的預算啊為什麼學校去砍學生的這個助理的薪資呢這個我有沒有去了解這個我們要確定他到底是教學助理或行政助理但是回過頭來就是說他這個薪水這個這樣子一下子這樣減半我們也覺得這個是對教學品質不是一件好事這件事情是來次長你過去也是教授嘛你有沒有請過月薪三千的助理沒有啊"},{"start":6973.286,"end":6978.368,"text":"從來沒有嘛,我也當過教授的助理從來沒有領過這種薪資所以我請教育部務必北藝大的案件瞭解清楚再來,大學裡面不管是學系新助理還是教學新助理薪資有沒有因為學校方覺得預算不足然後去砍學生薪資這樣的狀況我希望你們整體性的去瞭解"},{"start":7001.718,"end":7028.76,"text":"我相信這可能不是一個個案那最後呢這一次北一大的事件教育部你們是什麼時候知道學校有這麼多的爭議學生有這麼多的抱怨你們透過什麼管道知道的所以你們也是看IG你們也是看IG看社群媒體看媒體報導我發現這一次的事件"},{"start":7030.459,"end":7047.177,"text":"反映出來是學生對於學校尤其是大學裡面行政的這個作業有所意見這個意見的表達其實非常的困難因為校方本身就是執行者學校會變成球員兼裁判"},{"start":7048.198,"end":7070.159,"text":"所以教育部要聽到學生的聲音竟然必須透過IG攝取媒體學生要報休學校宿舍竟然要去媒體的IG下面留言所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以有一個這個申訴的管道不管你要用信箱還是什麼樣的方式讓學生可以有更直接的方式來跟教育部表達心聲"},{"start":7072.3,"end":7073.28,"text":"謝謝主席有請次長"},{"start":7107.43,"end":7120.52,"text":"首先要跟你探討的是本席的母校東吳大學這兩天傳出一個事件就有人發現在東吳大學的中國東吳大學在中國的社群軟體的小紅書上有開一個帳號"},{"start":7123.702,"end":7137.377,"text":"這個帳號的第一篇發文就介紹東吳大學跟蘇州大學是同根同源的大學提到台灣的時候他是稱台灣地區不曉得次長你有沒有注意到這件事"},{"start":7138.198,"end":7139.238,"text":"學校端的回應是說這個小紅書帳號是委託上海的教育機構經營的雙方還沒有正式簽約"},{"start":7156.324,"end":7170.949,"text":"這個文章的文字也沒有經過校方的審核那就本席瞭解我當然很清楚說在少子化的趨勢之下我們要拓展聲援那勢必要往中國去招生可是這樣子"},{"start":7173.03,"end":7191.679,"text":"自稱為台灣地區就有矮化這個主權的疑慮所以是不是請教這個次長我們允許我們的台灣的大學自我矮化然後而去中國招生嗎或者說你有什麼樣的方法來規範這些招生的同時也可以兼顧台灣的主權次長"},{"start":7192.999,"end":7195.382,"text":"教育部政務次長葉丙成列席"},{"start":7214.44,"end":7237.001,"text":"這部分我們會來了解,就是說到底這個整個脈絡是什麼然後我們會確認這裡面有沒有一些他們應該要改進的地方再來要跟您請教的就是剛剛配委員有提到的就是北藝大的問題那北藝大除了宿舍的問題以外最近還傳出說校長把標案標給自己的兒子"},{"start":7238.964,"end":7250.24,"text":"議事違反公務人員利益衝突迴避法學生還質疑校長室的裝潢像美術館一樣而非校長自己說上倉庫"},{"start":7253.928,"end":7273.624,"text":"校長是這個裝潢那麼的華麗以外這個還有就是剛剛配議委員有提到就是助教費的問題他從每個月的6000然後砍成3000塊那我想這個這樣的爭議其實有點不斷不曉得您說禮拜二要去嗎"},{"start":7274.104,"end":7291.302,"text":"昨晚已經去過了,我們這禮拜有去過那是單純了解宿舍問題沒有沒有,還有包括像前面談到那個利益迴避的有沒有違反這個利益衝突這件事情那這個校長室的裝潢,而且校長室的裝潢不要給自己的兒子這件事情"},{"start":7292.763,"end":7292.903,"text":"好,好"},{"start":7309.093,"end":7318.585,"text":"我想這個要特別監督一下那另外我想跟你提到就是說AIE的教父當然黃仁勛現在來台灣先起一陣旋風那特別是他來台灣演講的時候有點名了17所的這個合作夥伴的大學"},{"start":7327.517,"end":7357.005,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":7357.065,"end":7378.811,"text":"特別連港澳生來台灣念書現在也都往這個方向去高度有興趣所以我想從教育部2023學校的基本概況統計結果來看就讀科技學生數本來的占比是46.9最多那社會類是34.1%那人文類只有18.9%"},{"start":7384.193,"end":7412.329,"text":"那跟2018相比那就真的有差喔科技類的比例就增加了3%3.6%那可是社會類跟人文類都降都下降那若從STEM領域的學生數占全體大專院校的這個比例來看的話那近5個學年也是增加2.8個百分點那我們從高中端來看男一中北一女見中的人"},{"start":7413.45,"end":7431.228,"text":"的人設班都因為招生不足而走向歷史當然也因應新課綱所以人設的內容有融入了日常的課程可是之前高中的類似語言的自由班或者人設班都很多學生搶了要進去可是現在都沒有了"},{"start":7432.029,"end":7458.407,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分這個現象我們必須要來正視那學生搶著念資通訊的相關科系除了要搭這個AI發展的浪潮以外我想更現實的因素就是前途這個前途的錢是錢金錢的錢因為我如果從媒體整理的新鮮人入行薪資來看入行薪資的地板可能大家差不多可是天花板就差很多"},{"start":7459.187,"end":7463.09,"text":"昨天政部長也有提到科技始終來人性如果沒有人文的素養跟"},{"start":7483.783,"end":7485.825,"text":"跟委員報告我們認為人文很重要而且特別在AI的時代這是更重要"},{"start":7511.647,"end":7512.867,"text":"在台大學生選的輔系是社會系"},{"start":7533.875,"end":7551.923,"text":"所以其實你會發現到說很多的同學他可能是念電機系像我們電機系有好幾個學生都選設計當輔系所以這是為什麼我們要推動這個彈性學制的概念舉個例子我前面講到說台大像這個校學式的概念他就是把科系切分成很多的小的領域專長那你今天如果說我今天不想被科系綁住我可能想要懂一點"},{"start":7552.463,"end":7579.381,"text":"我選一個資訊專長我想要懂一點心理我選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣就可以拿到校學室畢業所以未來會有越來越多的這種學生是跨領域他今天可能是有一個一到兩個專長領域是跟可能理工有關但是他會有其他兩個到三個領域專長是跟人文那我們想要推廣推動這樣的台進學生那就變成是人人都要修人文不是只修人文科系的學生"},{"start":7579.881,"end":7598.969,"text":"需要修人文這是我們要推動的方向其實市長在這部分要好好推那當然再來提到高教人才斷層的問題因為時間大我簡單講就是說現在大專院校的師資大部分是高齡化我想這個根據很多統計的數字我們都看得出來"},{"start":7600.209,"end":7610.173,"text":"現在除了少子化以外我覺得會在那個所謂高教師資繼續任職的為什麼會高齡化年輕人為什麼不願意進來我覺得還是所謂的薪資的問題那如果在產界的話昨天我在經濟委員會也有請教過你在產界的話可能在"},{"start":7623.298,"end":7623.318,"text":"市長﹗"},{"start":7649.737,"end":7674.338,"text":"我想主要我們現在就像委員剛才提到薪資是一個很重要的關鍵所以我們現在就是從這個彈性薪資這邊下手給教授們加薪那另外就是說我也為什麼會有這個重點科技學院就是說把產業也拉進來產業也很迫切感覺到說如果高教這個人才在老師的斷層也對他會有影響所以他們也會他們資金進來也可以再讓老師薪水有機會可以更高"},{"start":7674.838,"end":7694.053,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":7694.633,"end":7696.895,"text":"接下來我們請羅廷偉委員在羅委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":7728.359,"end":7730.721,"text":"好謝謝主席有請次長次長"},{"start":7735.856,"end":7758.826,"text":"委員好好次長好次長你好我想說今天跟你就教這個少子化趨勢高教的相關問題從教育部送來的這個報告說真的我完全不知道在寫什麼我想只能靠益助資源並收盲制度引導跨域及彈性修業引導技專院以彈性多元創新的方式經營提高適應的韌性形塑大專院校職場體驗文化協助"},{"start":7761.007,"end":7773.086,"text":"在校青年職涯發展就可以培養出具有競爭高教的人才我真的覺得大大的一個問號我想請次長說說如何培育出競爭力的高教人才要怎麼做"},{"start":7773.735,"end":7797.154,"text":"我覺得一個很重要的關鍵還是在於說我們認為跟委員報告一個數據就是這個目前來講如果他有這個跨領域的這個專長的學生他在畢業出去之後他的薪資是比較高的高五千多塊那其實我們看到說其實跨領域面對一個變化很劇烈的一個世界其實他有這個跨領域的這個能力是就非常非常重要所以"},{"start":7797.634,"end":7798.254,"text":"但具體的一個問題我想跟你先探討一下"},{"start":7816.644,"end":7841.516,"text":"臺灣高等教育產業工會有批評在少子化的浪潮私立學校是首當其中其中有六成以上的私校卻僅佔兩成左右的補助導致資源不均那辦學亂象的層出不窮挑戰非常嚴峻這是第一個層次換不均的一個問題除此之外公立學校雖然有較多的補助但是整體而言仍然不夠我國中央政府總預算的漲幅超過7.2%"},{"start":7843.097,"end":7860.162,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":7860.262,"end":7885.35,"text":"我想換不均的一個問題攸關私校退場偏鄉學校受教的影響權益無法獲得公平教育的一個機會換寡的問題則使得台灣整體學生在大環境下的競爭力受限沒有足夠的資源讓他們發光發熱這就是現在高教面臨的一個狀況對此面對高等教育產業工會所指出高教唯一的轉機就是邁向公共化"},{"start":7886.27,"end":7915.192,"text":"應由國家承擔高教的角色跟資源跟責任提高國家對於高等教育公共化的一個投入請問次長你認同這樣的觀點嗎還是你認為高教應該走市場化我想報委員我認同這樣的觀點這也是為什麼我會去補助私校的學雜費就是希望能夠拉平公校的學生跟私校學生在經濟上的負擔所以這個其實我們本來就是往這個方向在走的"},{"start":7915.762,"end":7941.616,"text":"好可是我們就可以看到我剛剛所提出的我們雖然有補助但我們希望能夠好可以更好就目前現在看到私校經營的問題政府的做法是私立大學3.5萬的一個補助政策但是呢私立學校文教協會理事長王玉文就指出這只會讓他們更傾向就讀都會區的私校偏鄉的私校會造成更大的衝擊這部分你有掌握嗎"},{"start":7944.033,"end":7954.427,"text":"這個問題我們要看今天這個分發的數據啦。不過就我們了解確實這個私校學長被補助的這個政策出來之後那確實我們有看到這些私校這個報導的這個就是"},{"start":7958.553,"end":7964.038,"text":"因公共化的立場教育部有何具體的政策策略幫助大學應對招生不足的一個挑戰確保教育資源不會被浪費這部分我覺得我們應該要幫他們想想那再來基於這個我們現在確保"},{"start":7984.096,"end":8001.817,"text":"大學課程緊設置要跟著時代發展我想這個部分您應該是更能夠讓我們獲得期待我對於這個之前你有來拜訪你的一個背景我們都希望說能夠給予這樣子的一個部分能夠更跟得上進度我想剛剛有的委員說要"},{"start":8003.399,"end":8003.859,"text":"教育部政務次長葉丙成列席"},{"start":8022.253,"end":8037.103,"text":"我想之前像政府都有所謂的這種嫁創計畫鼓勵這個教授去創業那現在的這些法規制度也有在往這方面鬆綁所以往這一部分從大學的角度這個是未來我想還是會持續在進行的"},{"start":8037.483,"end":8065.998,"text":"2016?"},{"start":8066.298,"end":8087.085,"text":"報告委員其實像現在蠻多科大都有在也有在一些就像科大就有派教授去支援一些這個技高這些課程相關比如特別像一些跟AI或是比較前瞻的課程但那是實體的但該委員報告分享的那件事情其實也是我們現在推動像比如像半導體或AI這些課程其實不是"},{"start":8087.825,"end":8089.766,"text":"這是我們應該重視的這也是2016年你說過的我想同樣2016年齁"},{"start":8112.717,"end":8139.303,"text":"除了大學端協助高中端發展學修課程外各大學也應該成立專責單位聘用專職人員對於國教制度教學持續作為深入的分析一方面將國教的現況傳達給大學各科系並把科系合作擬定最適合該系的學生作為選才的策略跟方向另一方面則是把大學端的國教期待"},{"start":8140.664,"end":8164.546,"text":"帶給國教端形成相輔相成的一個教育政策請問這方面目前辦理的狀況是什麼大學端跟委員報告就是我目前在各大學都有招生專業化辦公室他在做的事情就是剛才委員提到的是在正式應用上所以已經開始在規劃也會有已經在做已經在做已經在進行在進行相關的成效後續我們持續的追蹤如果有任何的資料也希望能夠會後提供給我們沒問題好不好"},{"start":8165.847,"end":8179.07,"text":"再來我要跟你探討的是說我們聘用專職人員將國教現況傳達給大學各科系並與各科系合作擬定最適合的選材這個方向具體的內容有沒有可以提供?台大中文系要怎麼選材?這個我就覺得我以前真的是太多話了"},{"start":8194.101,"end":8215.753,"text":"我覺得是看到你對於產業的熱情我並不覺得是多話我就是點出問題沒關係我們現在到了這個位置能不能再把這些部分去加以經濟修正跟委員報告這個就是像我去年在做的事情"},{"start":8216.493,"end":8245.712,"text":"我們自己在看到其實我們自己在業界創業看到人文社科領域的學生我們在業界用很多而且機會很多可是我們發現在學校裡面的學生對這部分的瞭解對產業這個不瞭解所以我們就會開課來做這個那我想這個事情也是我們未來會持續的怎麼樣幫助人文領域的學生更瞭解外面他有哪些可能的機會選擇那這個部分可能是我們當他知道他外面有哪些選項的時候他就不會那麼焦慮那願意念人文的學生"},{"start":8246.112,"end":8246.132,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":8274.226,"end":8278.667,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝我們的羅委員,我們現在就休息五分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":8602.519,"end":8605.06,"text":"好,報告委員會我們就繼續開會接下來我們請郭鈺晴委員謝謝主席,有請次長好,我們請次長"},{"start":8623.815,"end":8639.524,"text":"市長早安好辛苦了我想這個內政部統計從這個1990年代台灣的每年的出生率那個時候的出生人次還高達了有30萬人但是2008年的時候已經跌破了20萬"},{"start":8641.205,"end":8665.922,"text":"同年如果大家還有印象的話其實台灣也開始進行所謂的教改廣設大學那其實人口數慢慢的減少少子化的現象其實早在很久以前我們其實都已經有意識到了那當時其實最高的大學的數量曾經高達了160所那一直到2023年我們的出生人口數現在只剩下135500多人"},{"start":8668.864,"end":8687.532,"text":"這是去年統計的一個資料那我想這個少子化的一個狀況其實我們都深有同感尤其是在學校端那不管是大學也好或者是高中職也好其實高中職可能在未來三年還要面臨將近有四五十間的學校可能要面臨退場"},{"start":8688.692,"end":8715.266,"text":"那大學更是那尤其是在今年其實我們已經知道了有四所四所的大學他們已經宣布要退場連之前其實這個明道大學他們在2022年的時候他們也特別說他們是希望能夠堅持下去因為他們學校關於所謂的農業的科系其實是不是辦得還不錯的但是也很遺憾的就是在今年的7月31號他們也即將要退場"},{"start":8718.529,"end":8733.389,"text":"目前我比較關心的就是彰化縣的明道大學的部分因為我們大概知道像大同技術學院或者是東方設計大學等等這其他三間的學生已經有被安排"},{"start":8737.914,"end":8748.025,"text":"但目前明道大學好像還有205個學生他們現在還在等待到底他們要何去何從這個部分我不曉得次長"},{"start":8748.746,"end":8748.886,"text":"主席"},{"start":8766.227,"end":8786.447,"text":"如果說因為他去這個這個有任何的比如他轉學這個學校的作業費或是住宿的這個費用的差異或是交通費這些我們都會由退場基金來補助就務必使同學不會因為學校的停辦他的轉學而受到任何的這個權益的受損這是我們非常重視的"},{"start":8787.208,"end":8799.695,"text":"我知道大家都很重視但是現在目前為止是明道大學有要承接的承接方在哪裡目前有這個已經弄得差不多我想我請這個梁副市長跟委員報告一下"},{"start":8800.936,"end":8820.901,"text":"各位委員報告有關明大大學這一部分我們會進行兩梯次的一個安置那目前第一梯次已經相關學校跟同學都已經有在match了然後我們估算大概可能還會再剩下大概100多人我們進行會在學習結束前會進行第二梯次的安置一定會把所有的同學都安置到所以目前不是我剛剛說的205人205人是之前的"},{"start":8823.862,"end":8852.581,"text":"現在已經剩下一百多人是這樣的意思嗎?對,就是我們會讓他們就在學習結束前我們一定會到安置到合適的學校去是,好那我想還是要盡快給校方一個方向我想學生其實在面臨他們在轉型的這個階段他們很多的學生大部分如果是校方提出我們即將要退場其實學生最在意的他們還是希望能夠在原校畢業"},{"start":8854.022,"end":8864.525,"text":"在原校得到他們的文憑接下來我們看到因為其實在我們的這個私校他會被列為所謂的專輔列為專輔之後其實大部分應該就是比較有能力的財團可能會來接管"},{"start":8872.628,"end":8888.906,"text":"但是呢最有能力的財團來接管之後是不是真的有心辦學然後他的公益性以及他的公共性其實也備受挑戰也可能會有一些爭議我舉比方來說學生的宿舍遭到出租"},{"start":8889.767,"end":8916.85,"text":"學生就被迫必須要另外尋求他住宿的地方然後再來就是他的教室有可能轉為他用這個也是目前我們可以看得到的現象那另外就是原本學校校方的人員他們在人事上被大幅的異動因為財團接手了嘛那這個部分我不曉得次長有沒有瞭解到目前現場的一些狀況其實真的有這麼大的問題產生"},{"start":8918.285,"end":8936.341,"text":"他如果是閒置空間的出租而且是在符合教育目的的話那這其實是對我們來說這個是可以的所以剛剛委員報告提到這件事情就是說宿舍出租或教室出租我們要去看他使用的目的是符合教育目的如果不是的話那他就不能出租"},{"start":8938.072,"end":8947.038,"text":"但是有的不是閒置的空間喔 有的是學生的宿舍喔所以這個部分是不是會跟當地的教育局或者是當地的縣市來做跟學校校方更緊密的一個連結才能夠知道他們的現狀 有追蹤嗎 這些"},{"start":8960.285,"end":8961.065,"text":"我們以這個學院來作為一個例子那大漢"},{"start":8981.637,"end":9005.598,"text":"在台灣東部有四分之五的學生是來自所謂的進修部也就是說他日間部的學生大概是100人那他夜間部的學生其實占大多數那現在其實他們就面臨到他們宣布停招之後大漢的學生面臨到不知道該怎麼辦才好因為同樣的一個縣市當中包含花蓮只有慈濟跟東華兩間學校那"},{"start":9008.6,"end":9036.845,"text":"問題是他們的校系他們學校的科系他原本的科系是東華或者是慈濟是沒有的那我不曉得今年宣布要停招的大漢技術學院目前他們你們碰到最大的一個狀況我不曉得有沒有深刻的一些了解跟委員報告大漢的這個有沒有要停辦停辦計畫沒有送到部裡面來所以我們現在不能說他我們不能確定我們沒有辦法說他就已經需要停辦所以這只是校方自己先說的是這意思嗎"},{"start":9037.768,"end":9065.175,"text":"但我回到委員剛才的問題若是一般性的原則如果今天有學校要停辦他的學生在附近沒有學校是他有相同領域的科學的話我們會在校外開專班我會請別的學校有同領域的教授在花蓮在那邊開專班讓這些學生幾乎當然還是他們自己的同學一起在專班一直念到畢業所以這個是如果是真的的話我沒有"},{"start":9065.855,"end":9080.028,"text":"現在你們有沒有直接跟大漢來做一個更進一步的一些聯繫?還沒合定,他計畫還沒送到我們這邊來那你們有試著先主動先去了解這個狀況嗎?有試著主動先了解,那大漢的說法是什麼?那我先請楊市長跟委員報告"},{"start":9081.509,"end":9108.397,"text":"跟委員報告假如學校要停招停辦那當然一定要經過校內的程序完備之後才可以把計畫報到教育部那大漢目前他在走他們校內的程序那校內程序走完之後才會把資料報來所以目前我們都還沒有核定他的停招跟停辦因為我們還沒有收到他"},{"start":9108.937,"end":9111.722,"text":"在花蓮地區我們目前看到的就餐飲"},{"start":9121.991,"end":9123.612,"text":"對,這樣花蓮地區的學生就有地方可以來就讀這樣的科系了"},{"start":9150.869,"end":9174.89,"text":"另外最後我再花一點點的時間我來就是想要請教一下我們的教育部教育部針對各校的註冊率其實來判斷所謂的我要不要補助這間學校的一個標準但是這個所謂的註冊率其實它又含有所謂的一個寄存名額的一個方式的一個存在那我想這個寄存名額的部分其實是會美化那個數字那相對的來講"},{"start":9175.831,"end":9204.073,"text":"其實也會透露出有一些學校他堅持其實已經招不到學生了但是他目前因為董事會還在運作他也有可能因為我的數字要弄得漂亮我教育部會補助嘛他不願意表明我是不是真的要退場這個部分其實我希望教育部可能還是要主動的先去了解因為這很有可能會產生校方尤其是在董事會的一些弊端這個部分這個部分是不是可以"},{"start":9206.675,"end":9234.434,"text":"也跟委員報告其實寄存招生名額這也是給大學一個彈性因為其實事實上很多的領域有時候他興起了他先需要更多可以招更多的人那這個名額其實他可以在動態的去做調整那至於委員剛剛提到說他這個數據是會美化或是幹什麼我們其實這些所有的數據我們認為都應該要透明公開所以在大專校院的校務資訊平台上面都可以看得到"},{"start":9234.754,"end":9259.829,"text":"有沒有可能可以把他實際的注冊率提供給其實有很多的學生或學生的家長他們也想要做一個參考我進去之後我可能到了大二我要被迫要轉學了我要輟學了我剛才講那個平台大專校院校務資訊平台那個網站任何人都可以上去每年12月會公佈這個學校他的注冊報到人數是扣除寄存名額的部分嗎還是不是"},{"start":9260.469,"end":9260.609,"text":"我們會從財務﹚是"},{"start":9287.107,"end":9295.371,"text":"還有他的這個教學品質實際上都會去看所以決定他會被預警好了解謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席好感謝謝謝好我們接下來請洪孟凱委員主席謝謝麻煩請葉次長好請次長謝謝"},{"start":9316.553,"end":9345.266,"text":"委員好市長,針對您的出現現在也就快一個月的時間一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點因為您推出這個翻轉教育理念但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音擔憂會不會成為是網紅流量的思維來辦教育那現在快一個月的時間您怎麼樣來翻轉這些教育團體對你的質疑的聲浪"},{"start":9347.183,"end":9374.915,"text":"其實我想這裡面齁因為剛上任的時候其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解比如說大家一直談說欸好像我常常在談翻轉教學我們要再翻轉或是幹什麼其實有跟委員報告其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨學的時候我也提到說王安石氏的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是"},{"start":9375.515,"end":9380.76,"text":"所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法"},{"start":9401.758,"end":9423.128,"text":"有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的我想這也是我們未來要努力持續要做的事情跟更多的團體包括是之前我也去這個國教盟跟這個"},{"start":9424.148,"end":9437.117,"text":"事性教育協會他們這個協辦的這些論壇我想這個跟教團跟家長團體做更多的對話跟這個交流這是我覺得很重要也是我很樂意我覺得應該要做的"},{"start":9454.888,"end":9475.296,"text":"所以我想請教一下現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文"},{"start":9476.036,"end":9504.363,"text":"有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主"},{"start":9505.283,"end":9526.476,"text":"跟委員報告好就是我們認為人文是非常非常重要因為像最近我在過去這兩年家長請我去演講在談AI之後的人才的圖像我常一直在談一件事情我說AI很會解決問題但是什麼問題值得解什麼問題對人很重要解了以後會創造出很多的價值這只有人才知道所以對人文的這方面"},{"start":9527.116,"end":9527.216,"text":"主席"},{"start":9545.245,"end":9548.648,"text":"所以這也是為什麼我們在大學在專報裡面我們有提到說我們有開始鼓勵已經很多大學像這個臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生比如像臺大是讓學生可以選不同的領域專長比如說他可以有四個領域專長"},{"start":9560.839,"end":9588.94,"text":"然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系"},{"start":9589.74,"end":9599.405,"text":"所以我們看到說其實這樣的概念在大學裡面確實說不是說我們認為不是只有念人文科系的學生需要人文而是我們認為"},{"start":9600.714,"end":9606.098,"text":"所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文"},{"start":9623.992,"end":9625.354,"text":"還是會併眾?"},{"start":9625.354,"end":9640.969,"text":"是不是?好 那我們也拉回來 這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此造成說這個倒閉潮"},{"start":9644.232,"end":9655.798,"text":"現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉"},{"start":9657.647,"end":9673.858,"text":"我們現在到底有沒有,已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的我們整個大專院校的高等教育我們需要的這樣的一個學校"},{"start":9675.061,"end":9690.456,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛那個數據,就是說其實那個可能是有媒體誤指就是說這個可能會退場的那40家不是都是高等教育的,或是技職對,但不管怎麼樣,就是說現在我們看到說"},{"start":9691.497,"end":9708.417,"text":"高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國師論壇啊"},{"start":9712.541,"end":9733.164,"text":"我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的"},{"start":9733.624,"end":9757.879,"text":"所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話"},{"start":9758.459,"end":9764.394,"text":"所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校"},{"start":9765.094,"end":9765.714,"text":"市長有那麼樂觀嗎?"},{"start":9797.089,"end":9817.88,"text":"市長應該這麼講啦 我想請教就是說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇我想這部長其實部長的這個因為我們目前您自己的想法是什麼"},{"start":9820.103,"end":9846.745,"text":"因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了"},{"start":9847.105,"end":9872.888,"text":"所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同"},{"start":9873.168,"end":9890.356,"text":"但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以"},{"start":9892.052,"end":9907.454,"text":"讓大家相對更公平那可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了"},{"start":9907.734,"end":9934.993,"text":"明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時爆火腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善?報告委員我覺得這個是一些相關的配套是我們可以再來努力的比如說怎麼樣讓更多的同學在高一剛入學的時候他能夠對學習歷程能夠這件事情到底是怎麼一回事那大家怎麼做這個東西我們雖然過去我們有做一些這些教材像這個做火學有一些有手冊給每個同學"},{"start":9936.454,"end":9952.382,"text":"但是這個可能只有書面不見得夠有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年九月高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下"},{"start":9953.723,"end":9969.73,"text":"能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態"},{"start":9970.613,"end":9973.974,"text":"市長,我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個"},{"start":9989.199,"end":10006.575,"text":"小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切"},{"start":10007.436,"end":10033.47,"text":"有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了"},{"start":10034.477,"end":10057.514,"text":"新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的"},{"start":10057.534,"end":10058.094,"text":"其實我覺得這是好事"},{"start":10075.602,"end":10103.362,"text":"這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以"},{"start":10105.146,"end":10124.496,"text":"規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好 我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好 那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請陳培宇委員"},{"start":10138.427,"end":10139.852,"text":"好次長喝完水了有請次長謝謝次長"},{"start":10142.335,"end":10167.091,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝次長次長我很開心你剛回應了紅夢凱委員說你自己還有張亮萬堅次長都即將跳下去選台尋獎我們非常期待看到這個報告我的小孩今年高中畢業三年前我認真參加了學校辦的每一場講座確實就扭轉了我對學習歷程的焦慮跟恐懼後來孩子們的表現在學校的幫忙之下確實就沒有走上那一條軍備競賽所以選獎應該真的很重要就拜託教育部了 謝謝"},{"start":10171.374,"end":10187.553,"text":"好那次長這是我的Q板這是我的小孩用AI幫我做的我的小孩跟你一樣是要走上離公的道路而我就是現在所有人最焦慮的即將會被取代中文系畢業的研究所念的是教育所"},{"start":10188.464,"end":10205.489,"text":"我應該我們兩個現在的畫面就是所有人最擔心的就是會不會未來我的工作就被次長您這樣優秀科系的人才所取代就是現在這個最真實的畫面我可能是那個最弱勢的相關學系畢業的次長你怎麼看目前大家在焦慮的這個議題"},{"start":10207.729,"end":10234.911,"text":"跟委員報告好了因為這兩年我一直被找去跟大家談這個演講說AI時代怎麼樣才能夠不被取代那我其實一直跟大家談一些比如舉個例子我常常跟大家講說我認為做一個很不會被取代的工作叫什麼叫Sales因為Sales它很重要是要建立人跟人之間的信任那它對人要了解那事實上像我過去我們在創業我很多的Sales都是人文領域的人那這只是個例子我不是說大家都要做Sales"},{"start":10235.791,"end":10262.249,"text":"其實我剛差點以為市長請我可以所以我的意思是說在AI的時代因為你如果只有技術很多時候AI解決問題的能力很強但是什麼問題值得解決是只有人才知道人的需求所以對人的了解其實反而我們現在新創我們在業界看到的是對人的需求夠了解的人比如說很多像產品設計師很多這些人這些人其實是我們認為是業界現在非常非常需要的"},{"start":10262.929,"end":10263.99,"text":"對人文的了解是怎樣的?"},{"start":10282.322,"end":10283.303,"text":"紅色的比較粗的這一條線呢是"},{"start":10299.961,"end":10319.316,"text":"所有大專院校學生的年增率那因為少子化的關係當然這個數字是往下降我相信次長非常了解可是如果我們單獨看人文社會科系的年增率趨勢它下降的幅度在近年遠遠超過大專院院校所有學生的整體年增率如果再把1213加進去我覺得應該會更可怕另外一個問題我們來看科技類科他們的負增長的程度卻相對的和緩就是我剛剛說的"},{"start":10327.122,"end":10350.555,"text":"所有的學生都會往這裡去升學往這裡去想像自己未來的職業因為非常現實就是看起來這個產業它的資源不管是政府的資源來自民間的投資或者是相關的科系資源都會比較多那我剛剛說過往教育部有提出高中生人文及社會科學基礎人才培育計畫甚至也有去開相關的經典班那次長你在剛剛很多回答我就不再多問"},{"start":10351.155,"end":10372,"text":"但是如何確保這件事情真的有被執行而且真的有照顧到學生的需求甚至是像我就算我現在開始認真學習AI我都把它視為是我個人的終身學習可是如果讓我再回到大學我可能還是想要走人文社會學這個學門這真的是我的天賦也是我的興趣那教育部如何支持像我們這樣的人"},{"start":10373.3,"end":10399.561,"text":"所以我想跟委員報告就是這是為什麼我們在大學我們接下來我們已經有大學在做那我們用這些成功的案例像臺大、清大、成大這些彈性學制就比如說我們剛剛提到臺大這個校學式的制度或者探索學習它基本上可以讓學生這樣就是說如果我今天我對資訊有興趣我可以選一個資訊領域專長大概是十幾個學分然後我也可以選一個心理的領域專長"},{"start":10400.902,"end":10428.751,"text":"這個制度你們目前有跟大學端討論過了嗎或者是你們有問過高中生相關這樣的設計嗎因為可能高中生他們馬上會遇到的問題就是我升上了大學之後我還不知道你們大人打算這樣調整的目前我的家小孩就是高三他可能都不知道他上了大學所以我相信任何的政策出發點絕對是良善的但是相關的配套跟執行還有跟現場的對話這邊我相信所有教育化委員會的委員都會想要跟教育部一起努力那後續是不是更多的資料還有我剛剛說必須要跟現場機器的溝通好嗎"},{"start":10430.751,"end":10457.424,"text":"但是我時間有限我們就先講到這邊另外關於來台留學生的事情大家很多大學會認為可能是少子化的解方之一目前確實吸引國際學生是全世界各國的趨勢不是只有台灣想要做這些事情我們辦公室整理完之後確實發現來台留學生逐漸回到疫情前的人數可是我們發現比較多資料是來自於東南亞的留學生關於中國留學生的部分賴清德總統在就職的時候他有提到"},{"start":10458.184,"end":10482.877,"text":"他希望促進在對等尊嚴的情況下促進中國留學生有學位來台的可能性教育部在5月24日的相關新聞稿也說你們希望可以在明年的5月底公開相關辦法那也許我今天還問不到進度但是我相信這件事情請教育部務必保持在對等尊嚴的情況下去促成這件事情目前你們的規劃是什麼大方向就好了"},{"start":10483.377,"end":10483.517,"text":"接下來﹖"},{"start":10505.29,"end":10521.977,"text":"次長在2017年的時候當年的台灣發動體育改革您絕對是一個很重要很重要的助力對 次長你自己都笑了齁對 次長你現在進到教育部之後我不知道你有沒有開始知道相關體育改革的阻力跟過往的舊傳統文化他們所面臨的困境"},{"start":10522.897,"end":10533.039,"text":"剛剛我在來之前呢我們剛剛人本教育基金會開了一個記者會記者會的內容我之後會跟次長分享但是我在現場聽到一個非常悲痛的故事我跟雅玲委員都在現場我們兩個身為媽媽我們聽到一個孩子告訴我們說有一個不當收費的教練超時訓練的教練不當體罰勒索孩子勒索家長的教練他為了對付這些不聽話的小孩他甚至把小孩丟在比賽完荒涼的河濱的球場"},{"start":10550.402,"end":10552.346,"text":"不讓他上車不接他回學校"},{"start":10553.587,"end":10581.128,"text":"甚至在出發的時候擺明就把他擺在學校門口看著所有他的同學坐上校隊的車出發去比賽來來回回教訓他不只一次而這個現象他們找了監察院也找了體育署但是過往這些施力沒有辦法幫助到這些小孩但是我們告訴體育署這絕對不會是個案我們辦公室從過去一年半以來接到非常非常非常多的個案我們發現他有整體通案的問題次長你自己怎麼看體育改革這件事情"},{"start":10581.748,"end":10604.16,"text":"跟委員報告這個我上任之前我想講過的話都沒有辦法迴避啦真的而且網路會幫我們記下來我其實上任之前其實在有一件事情我在提的就是說這個競賽轉學競賽這件事是是因為我那時候在體育所公聽會議裡面我就在裡面發言就是說這個教練跟球員跟學生是其實有個權力不對等的關係非常不對等那你今天如果還有這個類似這個這個轉學競賽這種很多的規定其實是"},{"start":10609.463,"end":10609.663,"text":"所以上任後呢?"},{"start":10624.773,"end":10625.433,"text":"李宜君,您認識嗎?"},{"start":10646.765,"end":10653.728,"text":"八年過去了林一軍他去年呢透過世錦賽冠軍的身份他今年再次取得奧運門票前兩天我們在愛爾達電視上看到對這位選手的專訪他很難過的說從19歲到43歲他的期待就只是希望他們可以讓一軍的教練隨隊參加奧運"},{"start":10667.133,"end":10675.995,"text":"而這個他們指的就是國訓中心跟單項協會發生什麼事情了呢?為什麼他的教練不能跟他一起去參加奧運比賽呢?我們來看一下"},{"start":10679.25,"end":10699.178,"text":"這個在相關他們的規定當中他的協會他們的選訓的教練是按照選訓委員會評估具奪牌實力選手教練為優先那次長我們來談一談奪牌實力我們來看一下他的排名那可是如果同樣另外一個協會他們的說法就比較客觀他說按照選手的排名順序來作為領選的依據下一張"},{"start":10702.845,"end":10724.309,"text":"這個是今年他們只要發三張關於這個選奧運涉及總會奧運積分排名跟本屆教練領選結果123排序就是ABCD這上面三個教練可以跟著選手去可是我剛剛跟您報告的林怡君他的奧運積分最高排名是11可是他的教練卻不能跟他一起去而且屢次發生我剛剛已經舉例了"},{"start":10727.33,"end":10752.111,"text":"在單項協會當中對於領選教練哪些可以跟著一起選手到了現場每一個協會做法如此不同身為單項協會的主管機關體育署跟教育部次長你怎麼看這個問題這是當年您在非常用力的倡議體育改革您所願意看到的現象嗎我想這個委員這次我可以請體育署就這個事情做一個補充好可以謝謝因為即將奧運出發在即"},{"start":10754.167,"end":10771.188,"text":"是跟委員報告事實上每個單項的一個特性不同那在涉及的部分今年有取得7位是7位那你已經屬於非法非法的部分我們有4位選手那所以有手槍有手槍的有非法的還有25米的選手所以會依照不同的"},{"start":10771.448,"end":10785.156,"text":"可是我剛剛這個說法你可以接受嗎?所以你現在是要公開說他們這個按照選訓委員會自行評估具奪牌實力可是你在看到這一張林益君他的奪牌實力是11那其他可以被派去的教練他們的奪牌實力排分在那邊欸"},{"start":10787.472,"end":10802.524,"text":"還是我們會後再討論?可以因為如果體育署要繼續這樣用不客觀的標準放任單項協會他們可以自行決定這些事情我覺得剛剛他已經說了他從19歲到43歲他的舌王如此的卑微"},{"start":10803.144,"end":10808.147,"text":"但是這個標準是你們體育署每一個單項協會都可以掌控得到的嗎?你們真的對每一個選手都是公平的嗎?屢次相關的事件每次在奧運後都會發生類似的事情我只是要問身為執政黨委員我們當然要願意捍衛行政院所有政策"},{"start":10822.054,"end":10844.52,"text":"但是執政黨委員也想要在這些所有進一步的改革公開透明的路程上陪伴所有我們在政策服務的每一個人從我們關注的學生青少年到相關的選手到各式各樣的企業上社會上每一個人所以在體育這件事情上我真的覺得我自己都覺得很大的困境是我們不知道到底要怎麼樣跟你們溝通你們才願意公開透明民主的方法去對待選手跟跟協會溝通"},{"start":10846.058,"end":10866.288,"text":"因為教練的臨險都會公告出來 這個沒有問題的啦我們會再次跟體育署討論如果我們沒有辦法在今天有共識的話為什麼我要問次長 次長 麻煩你所有的願望都非常的卑微所有的選手他們不應該只是國家奪牌的工具所有的體育改革都必須要從基層"},{"start":10867.068,"end":10868.71,"text":"最後我的訴求謝謝主席謝謝不好意思最後一張"},{"start":10882.262,"end":10900.575,"text":"我要積極地要求重新檢視奧運教練領選資格﹑客觀設定還有公平性不要再讓協會私設行堂讓選手只能孤單面對還有盤點參賽證件 調度的可能性避免相關的現象我相信體育署非常的清楚再來我真心想要拜託葉刺身為我們從"},{"start":10901.576,"end":10902.136,"text":"接下來我們請張雅玲委員"},{"start":10934.275,"end":10936.616,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請葉次長今天的話我們就是針對高教的部分來跟次長做一個討論那其實我想這個在我們的報告裡面都有講111年的時候我們的大一新生會來到最低點是來到15.7整整跟現在比差不多將近4萬"},{"start":10958.626,"end":10973.319,"text":"但是我看了一下111學年合格的公私立大學合格的招生名額大概是目前還沒有去反應未來可能即將面對這個變化我想要了解的地方就在於說"},{"start":10974.86,"end":10991.049,"text":"當我們人數越來越少了可是我們現在列入專輔的學校目前只有這四所那我想要知道說我們現在要如何去因應這麼少了這麼多將近五萬人呢我們的準備到底是什麼"},{"start":10992.51,"end":11008.464,"text":"我們現在其實我們在鼓勵這些大學因為前面有提到就是說台灣目前接下來會遇到我們產業其實有一個很大的人力缺口在2030年的時候所以這些私立大學其實它有另外一個也還有一個很重要的任務就是說怎麼樣幫助台灣去"},{"start":11009.665,"end":11013.429,"text":"我們是目前在現在的學校裡面我們是維持不變的狀況之下去做積極的國外攬柴來解決這個問題嗎這個是可以補足到4萬"},{"start":11024.801,"end":11044.143,"text":"我們的目標是這樣子嗎?我們的理解是這樣子嗎?我們現在的目標是到2030年之前我們累計要收30萬個學生所以其實這本來就是一個台灣的缺口很大所以這就變成是的確我們就是要私立學校還有公立學校如果有要走這條路一起"},{"start":11045.305,"end":11059.462,"text":"我想因為為什麼大家要出國來念書 一定通常有可能是想要念一些一技之長﹖或者是要念一個比較好的學位﹖進入一個比較好的大學﹖ 那我就很好奇到底我們現在怎麼樣提出我們的競爭力"},{"start":11060.643,"end":11076.145,"text":"因為我覺得現在還有一個大問題就是說我們私校我們現在過去是有一些私校退場的機制那這個是像是可能因為財務啦教學品質不好我們就開始列入專輔學校再問題沒有解決我們就開始下令停招那我們現在是沒有以"},{"start":11082.221,"end":11098.949,"text":"但是呢今天回應到剛剛前面那個問題這些招生不良的學校一定它裡面有一些狀況那到底我們的教育部有沒有掌握因為如果你說要招國外的學生好了因為這些學生他會來這些學校唸書嗎"},{"start":11100.84,"end":11118.538,"text":"這到底我們是不是要怎麼樣來協助這些學校產出這些競爭力跟吸引力嘛 對不對對我這個其實整個政策的配套好像我們在目前這個新南向產業專班我們在越南印尼跟菲律賓我們都有設定招生基地跟據點在當地幫他們教他們訓練他們華語能力要到這個A2的等級才會來台灣"},{"start":11122.742,"end":11149.516,"text":"我了解,但是我想這個,因為我們之前其實有諮詢過這個題目啦但是這個人數其實進展非常的緩慢啦那我想,這部分我想主要是訴求啦就是說我們針對這些註冊率會達六成的學校我們有沒有一些積極的輔導機制啦應該這樣講,因為你不把他列入專府嘛你是要留下來嘛,你要去照顧國外的學生嘛那我們有沒有一些積極的輔導介入措施來協助這些學校,不然你剛剛講的那些都不會實現啊"},{"start":11150.437,"end":11152.225,"text":"我們有沒有這些想像過的規劃來協助這些學校?"},{"start":11154.815,"end":11180.216,"text":"是報告委員就是當他的這個財務如果有出現惡化的狀況或是失智或是教學品質有出問題的出狀況的時候會我們就開始從預警的不對我現在講的是這些註冊率未達六成的因為你現在未達六成你就有可能因為你錢收得太少嘛註冊費太少啊那你怎麼去營運那相關的問題就會產生嘛那我們針對這些未達六成的學校我們有沒有一些積極的介入型的措施目前有規劃嗎"},{"start":11183.341,"end":11199.909,"text":"這就是因為他招生未達六成也代表他現在科系跟整個產業或社會的需求是不是match的所以他就去做調整所以這也是為什麼部長會提到說我們鼓勵他們就是不要再被那個院這個系所的數量限制他可以朝單科的專業"},{"start":11200.629,"end":11206.091,"text":"台灣系停招,全台灣第一個台灣系停招我在之前的質詢裡面就有講到我們是不是應該要來協助這個台灣系因為現在台語要復正嘛國家語言發展計畫我們其實是需要一些相關的台灣的人老師跟師資跟一些專業的人員"},{"start":11224.179,"end":11234.767,"text":"但是上次給我的回覆就只有說我們現在會來協助確認他這個停招的程序是否符合正常流程還是沒有回答我會不會來協助他們這可以回答我一下嗎我們會來瞭解這個狀況來看怎麼樣來積極協助他們"},{"start":11241.432,"end":11255.606,"text":"接下來就是說我們在這個3加2的新五端模式今天次長其實也有講說這是一個初步的構想希望可以來去搶救我們來提供一些吸引力來解決我們這些少子化就職的人數"},{"start":11259.97,"end":11286.089,"text":"但是我們從這個右邊的表其實也有看到就是說學生人數其實坦白說記職生的人數就是比較少然後呢我們學測報考的人數呢也已經超越了統測報考的人數了我現在其實有一個很好奇的地方我們這個3加2新武專模式要如何吸引技術性的高中生這吸引力到底在哪裡啊因為坦白說他現在學生學校這麼多啊他也可以去念一般學校就好為什麼他要念這個3加2"},{"start":11287.713,"end":11308.471,"text":"這個跟委員報告因為這個一般我們看到就是說像五專的學生畢業的他的薪資是比大學畢業生高的也就是看到這市場上對五專就是這五年畢業去就業這個是有市場在有需求在那另外就是說其實我們現在要做的事情就是說你今天都只是高職去招生跟高中在競爭的時候他比較辛苦"},{"start":11308.831,"end":11326.886,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":11327.126,"end":11344.525,"text":"國中畢業他可以好好五年不用去遭受到升學的壓力好好的學技術這也可以解決我們現在的高職有很多的學生到高二高三就為了要升學為了要統策準備考試準備統策其實專業技術也沒學好所以他其實有幾個目的是要讓孩子有五年的時間"},{"start":11345.546,"end":11366.058,"text":"好好的安心的學技術好 我了解了那我想這部分因為其實剛剛次長也有講到這個還沒有詳細的規劃那我想這個我們還是要詳細的去了解因為聽起來是有掌握一些現場的需要那但是我也認為如果說現場有這個需要我們當然是可以積極的來做但是我們還是要去了解實務面我們要如何去執行所以如果日後有詳細的規劃再提供到我們辦公室那剛剛其實剛剛"},{"start":11367.699,"end":11394.428,"text":"次長也有講就是說需要學習計職的專業能力那從2018年教育部的點亮計職之光其實也有講這跟經濟的建設密不可分非常的需要那全世界都在講AI我們也說我們要做一個AI指導那現在全台灣都在流行那但是中研院的孔祥仲院士也提了一個意見就是說計職教育是台灣教育的基石其實回應剛剛次長講這件事情我們需要很多動手的人來整理這些相關的資料"},{"start":11396.143,"end":11410.084,"text":"來培養我們需要培養一萬名懂AI的技職生那我現在想要請教次長就是說你認同恐怖院是我相信應該是挺認同他的主張但是我們要如何在現在的技職體系培養AI人才我們有足夠的師資跟資源嗎"},{"start":11411.871,"end":11432.639,"text":"我想我認同這個一萬名懂AI但現在我覺得我們現在台灣社會有很多事情是混在一起比如我們在講說我們缺AI人才那AI人才到底是什麼AI人才我覺得我們應該要初分一個是發展研發AI技術的人跟會用AI在他的領域的人這兩個要區分開來那我想"},{"start":11433.339,"end":11436.341,"text":"對,但是我們現在的資資跟資源有準備好可以去訓練像這樣子的技職生讓他懂AI嗎?"},{"start":11449.369,"end":11478.291,"text":"這件事情其實也不見得只是從技職層出發我想我們分成兩個部分好了因為剛剛次長也有講一個是研發那是另外一端可能在大學端處理的部分一個是實務上操作面的部分那我們現在在處理的就是操作面的部分我要回應委員的是說我認為懂AI的人其實也還不止一萬人因為我覺得未來我們的孩子們很多都對這事情要有所了解所以這個未來就是為什麼我們怎麼樣再從中小學教育從中小學小學的時候他就要開始要"},{"start":11478.911,"end":11479.312,"text":"但我想因為"},{"start":11494.608,"end":11494.628,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":11521.725,"end":11522.746,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請教育部的葉次長"},{"start":11551.738,"end":11576.338,"text":"一早我很少來教育委員會今天早上碰到我們的召委他特別講說今天討論高教我一看啦這高教我就想幾個問題想請教簡短問題第一個在大學裡面的助理教授到副教授副教授到教授過去有所謂的六年條款"},{"start":11578.794,"end":11605.105,"text":"就說我今天是主理教授我6年沒辦法升到副教授我滾蛋這個副教授6年沒辦法升到教授我滾蛋過去有這樣條款後來學校慢慢的有把它取消掉我就請教次長這個6年條款能不能有教育部統一規定各個學校把這個取消了因為你這個在大學教書"},{"start":11606.005,"end":11622.593,"text":"不見得只有做研究嘛還需要教學啊什麼之類的而且生不了教授生不了副教授這個對個人來講都是一個壓力他一定想生只是很多環境他生不了而已這個有沒有可能教育部統一把它取消掉有沒有可能"},{"start":11623.454,"end":11648.695,"text":"跟委員報告因為在大學法第19條就是大學他可以依據他自己的教學研究的需要他可以他有這樣子的權利所以我覺得我們教育部沒有辦法我們沒有辦法去違反這個法律去跟他說你這幾年可以續聘幾年不能續聘我沒有辦法去做這個我們現在沒有辦法去做這個事情所以沒辦法做到說取消這個可是很多學校講啊事實上這個"},{"start":11650.689,"end":11652.55,"text":"第二題 這個也是我提一些學校的教授來發問"},{"start":11679.833,"end":11682.694,"text":"這是學校之間他們自己"},{"start":11707.154,"end":11720.095,"text":"這是學校跟老師批准資源的他們自己批准的關係你覺得合不合理嗎這個很多私校他都升等過程你是follow教育部的啊follow教育部的結果公立大學不承認這個東西"},{"start":11721.499,"end":11744.147,"text":"我跟委員報告,因為很多學校併校其實有很多的考量比如說有學校擔心說他併校之後他會不會影響到他的排名啊學術排名像這個其實我覺得就變成是這兩個答案啦次長我這兩個答案test你啊原來對你有高度期待你是網紅教授有人講說是孔雀形的有人說你是翻轉教育結果你都沒有翻轉你都不敢翻轉了"},{"start":11746.088,"end":11766.641,"text":"規定在那裏就規定在那裏的6年這學校來講你都不敢去動它第二個這個私校的教授轉到亞工力大學的教授你也都不敢動所以我覺得你沒有任何翻轉啊你沒有任何的創新在這裏要看起來要讓大家覺得說噢葉丙成亮天喔現在不知道亮在那裏"},{"start":11768.022,"end":11777.045,"text":"報告委員,我已經7年沒有談翻轉了,然後我覺得我們的...人家還叫你孔雀形,孔雀什麼叫孔雀形的網紅教授,孔雀形就是燒包型燒包型的這個花枝招傳的教授,沒看到啊,鬼鬼祈祈在這裡"},{"start":11790.314,"end":11818.84,"text":"對,我還蠻規矩的。 是啊。沒有,報告委員,這個依法行政這是我必須要做的事情啦。在法律跟允許的空間我們做什麼。但是在你的,你要有這麼大的權力在手上,你總是,我剛剛提出來都是私下的一些教授的心聲。是。你又給他一條路。來啦,再來第三個問題,簡單的問題啊。你今天提到說我們的少子化嘛,今天題目是這個嘛。"},{"start":11819.727,"end":11846.095,"text":"我們大學數量是不是太多?是不是太多?這個很具體喔!是不是太多?如果因爲台灣未來人力需求的話目前我們有非常大的壓力必須要從國外攬財回來所以如果是在從國外攬財讓台灣的解決台灣2030年的這個三四十萬人力缺口的話我覺得我們大學這些很多人體制好的大學還是有它存在的價值跟必要"},{"start":11847.035,"end":11868.516,"text":"是不是太多嗎?你要回答我的問題嗎?我們講說營養太多over banking這個University太多over University他收得到學生就有他的價值他今天如果不願意改變然後他收不到學生那當然他的存在就會是當然大學數量太多嘛全世界台灣已經是全世界大學數量第二名的"},{"start":11869.517,"end":11888.863,"text":"我們的2300萬人口我們600多萬有大學學歷幾乎百分之百都可以入讀大學你看這個在座各位以前我們考大學多難現在考大學多容易啊當然是大學數量太多嘛所以我就問你你覺得最適當的大學數量個多少"},{"start":11890.374,"end":11916.77,"text":"這個我沒辦法回答因為這是要配合台灣整個未來人力的需求阿你講幾包我們對你期待很高網紅教授給我們不紅一定不紅來來來等一下主席你讓其他人問就我稍微要我很少來我跟你講喔這個這個現在來講我們看到大學數量太多大學生學歷貶值你同意我們的大學貶值嗎大學學歷貶值嗎"},{"start":11919.768,"end":11936.813,"text":"因為現在越來越多企業是在看學生有什麼樣的能力可以符合企業的需求所以確實學歷的重要性相對來講叫以前的年代是下降的是沒錯所以是貧殖了嘛就這個道理嘛所以不是只有靠文憑還要靠其他skill"},{"start":11938.454,"end":11956.849,"text":"對 其他東西要加進來嘛 才能夠提高 所以不是只有學歷而已 這個很重要最後一點就是今天少子化的東西 我剛才沒有聽很清楚你怎麼樣打開在現在的時空裡面 讓陸神能夠願意過來台灣現在兩岸的關係這麼不好 你有什麼辦法你告訴我"},{"start":11962.993,"end":11973.966,"text":"我們基本上已經跟對岸相關的窗口都有表達我們的善意你跟對岸什麼窗口接觸?這個我請國際事務部長我時間到了,趕快講趕快講我們現在的對口單位是對方的交生服務中心由我們台灣的陸聯會來做對等的窗口"},{"start":11983.686,"end":11985.268,"text":"接下來我們請林思敏委員"},{"start":12013.018,"end":12016.561,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請葉次長。好,次長。次長,你是台大的教授嘛。是。請問你知道台大在竹北有一個校區嗎?知道。知道嘛。"},{"start":12029.026,"end":12050.654,"text":"我想台大取得這塊校地是在民國89年已經24年囉24年目前的狀況你又去竹北你知道嗎你了解嗎我們在台大我大概都知道目前的狀況就是除了一個必增館以外其他22公頃的校地荒蕪一片"},{"start":12051.977,"end":12079.509,"text":"所以這塊土地如果你經過竹北你就會看到這是最精華的一個地段現在價值真的是快一千億了應該可以這樣講七八百億所以台大取得竹北校區這個有一個都市傳說有人講說是一塊錢取得的有人說是無償撥用的"},{"start":12080.762,"end":12084.296,"text":"那次長您了解到底台大如何取得這塊校地嗎?"},{"start":12089.346,"end":12110.412,"text":"我自己之前在學校裡面的經驗是學校這十幾年來一直在呼籲大家去...這部分我跟前張副校長聊過了我自己也了解非常透徹其實都市外界的傳言太多我想這不利於學校的發展"},{"start":12111.972,"end":12124.11,"text":"所以教育部是不是可以就臺大取得校地的過程可以公諸於世讓我們新竹地區的所有的傳言就把它攻破嘛可不可以"},{"start":12131.526,"end":12139.511,"text":"請您在一個月之內把臺大如何取得新竹校地的整個過程提交給教育委員會及本席"},{"start":12145.675,"end":12168.547,"text":"接下來跟次長來討論國內高教的現況以英國QS機構最新的世界大學排名台灣大學是台灣表現最佳的大學院校世界排名是68名而台灣的第二名則是世界排名第210名的清華大學所以台大是唯一進入百大的台灣高等教育機構"},{"start":12169.628,"end":12197.68,"text":"那麼臺大的資工系近年來也跟臺大的電機系分庭抗禮相互征徽成為我們臺灣協子理工科系的第一志願上週才結束的那個臺北電腦展徽達執行長黃仁勳他表示說要在臺灣設立AI的一個研發中心還有總部所以我請問次長目前臺灣的AI人才足夠嗎?"},{"start":12199.382,"end":12223.669,"text":"我想就跟委員報告就是我們要把AI人才要再做一個更細的區分如果是AI帶一個就是說是研發AI技術的人才這方面確實我們還是不夠不足所以這是為什麼會在碩博士班有很多外加的名額在重點科技學院我們大概每年有一千大概972個碩博士的名額就是要外加要訓練更多這樣的學生"},{"start":12224.349,"end":12239.382,"text":"目前是不足,但是我們現在看到我們台灣的各個產業大家都在積極地說要投入AI的一個研發所以在這種情況之下你目前可能要去培養這些AI的人才,現在會不會緩不濟急?"},{"start":12241.103,"end":12242.885,"text":"臺灣的高教方向是否應加強AI的部分?這我認同你認同嗎?我最後就是說"},{"start":12270.25,"end":12296.269,"text":"台灣現在有最優秀的人才新竹也是全台高科技人才密集度最高的地方那麼臺大的校地就在新竹所以我建議是不是研議把臺大的新竹校區來設立AI學院培育我們本土的AI人才並爭取與揮打來這個設立它的研發中心就在我們的臺大的竹北"},{"start":12297.19,"end":12298.552,"text":"在台大效力設立研發中心或總部"},{"start":12312.589,"end":12328.18,"text":"在一個月之內研議出一個報告報告委員 這個回答他的總部媒體的報導似乎他已經定案了是 我說你研議嘛 我現在就提一個方向給你嘛好不好 一個月之內跟台大共同來討論提出順便報告 以上 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝林委員接下來我們請陳廷飛委員"},{"start":12344.908,"end":12348.892,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是請次長好 次長委員好次長我就就你的口頭報告有幾個問題來跟你就教一下其實你了解為什麼現在很多的企業都說他們在缺人才除了少子化以外他們也說他們在缺人才為什麼"},{"start":12370.404,"end":12372.025,"text":"這就是我今天要請教次長的"},{"start":12396.482,"end":12402.901,"text":"你洋洋灑灑然後有做了這麼完整的口頭報告可是這其中有一個部分"},{"start":12403.976,"end":12427.754,"text":"我們要怎麼讓這些學生能夠被訓練成為這些老闆所需要的對象那才能把他combine在一起嗎那如果沒有的話永遠這個問題還是存在即使我們投注了再多的資源一樣沒有辦法去解決我們人才的短缺都不要談少子化"},{"start":12428.755,"end":12441.937,"text":"少子化是後面我們整個國家的問題可是就現階段我們有很多的年輕朋友找不到工作可是也有好多老闆找不到人才"},{"start":12443.291,"end":12461.186,"text":"這到底是怎麼一回事這才是我們今天要去討論的就算我們現在有一些平台各部會然後去做溝通協調經濟部然後教育部然後各個產業界然後把它匯集進來可是問題還是沒解決啊"},{"start":12462.487,"end":12476.365,"text":"跟委員報告因為我之前因為這10年我都在新創業界所以我其實廣泛收集業界這些創辦人們CEO們的建議他們都認為關鍵會在於說台灣的學生在大學就學期間"},{"start":12477.466,"end":12504.771,"text":"比較少,相對於美國或其他國家是比較少去做intern的也就像他在大二、大三的時候他沒有機會先去公司了解公司是什麼狀況需要什麼能力去碰觸到實體面對,所以這就是為什麼我們在專報裡面的這個第三點我們希望通過接下來三年的時間在大學開始塑造這個大二升大三這個暑假就覺得說我應該去找公司做intern這樣子的文化"},{"start":12505.291,"end":12530.103,"text":"那時候我們有這些平台跟機制的配套要來通過三年時間來主播的演説沒錯,你所說的就是利用我們在校的期間可能到業界去做一些實習那重點是你有沒有辦法訓練出這些業界要的人才否則如果你去實習一樣他感受不到說這些就是他們要的人才"},{"start":12531.021,"end":12554.165,"text":"那變成是兩個部分沒有交集啊沒錯我們讓了我們學生去實質去碰觸到實體面他可能只是會覺得這到底是不是我的興趣我是不是要再去學第二專才可能是這個樣子可是我們今天企業界你所訓練的人才是不是他要的"},{"start":12555.356,"end":12577.514,"text":"那這個會不會這個平台可以接的起來是其實是現在其實最關鍵的我們在業界所聽到都是如此就是說今天大學生也好不論是一般生或是技職學校的學生今天到了職場發現跟他們所需要的有落差"},{"start":12578.513,"end":12594.988,"text":"可是這個落差不可能透過一個暑假或一個寒假的時期然後他就可以把它整個整合起來沒這麼厲害他就沒學到啊他沒有學到他怎麼能夠在職場當中去表現甚至只是會說"},{"start":12596.553,"end":12621.437,"text":"打斷了他原本的興趣因為去高雄行政委司長發言不是這樣啊他過去對於這樣的一個環境是有很多的憧憬結果回到這個實習面之後他怎麼跟他所感覺的完全不一樣所以在專業領域跟實習面的領域有落差之後反而讓他打退堂鼓"},{"start":12623.054,"end":12643.805,"text":"這是我們現在其實很重要的關鍵 次長我今天只是把問題提出來 我們有期待 我們不希望說今天一個新政府的團隊還是一樣曾經在過去沒有把問題找出來 因為這兩塊其實真的落差很大"},{"start":12645.1,"end":12669.414,"text":"我們每天都聽到我們業界在跟我們請求說拜託我們要人才我們缺工缺工缺工但是有一方我們卻是不斷的聽到我們青少年朋友畢業生找不到工作找不到工作找不到工作這問題在哪裡拜託次長是不是一個月把報告完整的到辦公室好不好是好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":12671.34,"end":12681.128,"text":"好 謝謝陳婷芬委員接下來林楚英委員謝謝林楚英委員林楚英委員好接下來我們請翁曉林委員有請葉次長委員好"},{"start":12693.092,"end":12713.125,"text":"市長好,是這樣的本行因為也是來自於學界所以我對於大學裏面的一些問題相當的關心首先我就想要請教一下您今天這個主題是談到高教如何經營我想請問市長知道嗎我們大學的學費有多少年沒漲了"},{"start":12715.162,"end":12743.111,"text":"十幾年了十幾年了您覺得部長是合理的嗎您來自台灣大學您大概知道現在這個學校裡的這個教學成本是個校務經營的成本應該很高吧是當然我們也給台大蠻多補助的是嗎有給台大補助對全台灣大概只有台大拿到最多的補助可是其他的學校呢是苦哈哈台大是很有能力很有資源可以去募款但是其他的學校呢可能募款能力就沒有台大這麼好"},{"start":12743.971,"end":12756.62,"text":"那麼我本期是認為說在這麼多年來我們的大學的學費都沒有調整過但是物價不斷的膨脹就連電費現在也都這個大幅的提升雖然說現在教育部好像是已經跟各大學講這目前大學的電費是不會調漲但是以現在台電虧損的狀況估計可能下年度就會再調漲那麼請問有沒有可能將大學學費管制鬆綁"},{"start":12774.973,"end":12781.077,"text":"但是你們條幅上限合理嗎?而且為什麼你們條幅上限公告之後卻沒有學校或是至少現在沒有聽到什麼公立大學有提出申請?"},{"start":12798.691,"end":12802.792,"text":"本席認為這個議題非常非常重要那我希望你們是不是可以在一個月之內可以提出未來要檢討大學學費管制鬆綁的方案給本席"},{"start":12822.817,"end":12848.282,"text":"可以從法規上面還有整個方向去做調整那第二個議題就是現在呢談到就是這個教育部也很鼓勵各大學要以學生為中心然後開創很多不同的創新的學習模式那以本習之前所服務的清華大學大概是首創所謂的清華學院那麼裡面就招了一批特殊選才的學生可是請問一下"},{"start":12849.562,"end":12865.771,"text":"教育部有沒有去做過評估這些學校到底有沒有能力可以提供給特殊選才的學生有足夠的學習資源比如說清華大學根本沒有舞蹈學院可是你找了一堆選了一些舞蹈學系的或是會溜冰的或是會跳繩的學生進來有能力去輔導他們嗎?"},{"start":12870.107,"end":12871.429,"text":"其實大學應該要負責任"},{"start":12890.29,"end":12912.585,"text":"我們今天竟然要延攬這些特殊選才的學生進來就應該要給這些學生有足夠的學習資源讓他們可以在學校裡面學習成長而不是他們之後又到外面去找夜市那這些夜市又沒有辦法去控管他們的能力到底是怎麼樣那說難聽一點這個可能有些學生甚至是來混文憑的那麼我必須要講教育部應該要更"},{"start":12913.385,"end":12935.301,"text":"有責任有義務要去了解這些特殊選材的學生進來之後他的學藝的程度他的發展以及他未來出路的狀況是怎樣他的這個出路是如何那麼我希望教育部也能夠對我這個部分去進行研析還有就是這個因為次長您的專業就是AI我想在現在AI時代您認為語言還重要嗎"},{"start":12938.4,"end":12941.042,"text":"所以在大學裡面有必要去實施全面化的這個全語教學嗎?"},{"start":12956.294,"end":12977.201,"text":"但是你們現在訂了相當高的一個比例至少未來要差不多25%的這個課程全部到全英語化但是呢我覺得在AI時代其實真的必須要去思考這個賴清德總統的這樣的雙語政策是不是有去實施的必要那對大學來講其實已經造成很多的這個學生在學習的時候出現了很多的問題"},{"start":12978.061,"end":12996.519,"text":"老師也覺得說教學也遇到困難那麼在一個全部都是我們台灣孩子的這個課堂裡面卻要用英語教學那大家的學習效果也不好在大學端是如此那在中小學更是如此那麼我希望教育部可以好好的去檢討這樣的一個雙語教學或所謂的EMI的教學計畫不要用這樣的一個計畫去綁架"},{"start":13002.825,"end":13007.307,"text":"但是如果你們沒有這個計畫的話他就不會來申請你們可以把這個計畫用在更有效的更有意義的地方而不是透過這個計畫你們要去實驗這個政策因為現在大學就像我剛回到一開始講的嘛高教"},{"start":13030.618,"end":13031.138,"text":"感謝我們接下來請范雲委員"},{"start":13056.687,"end":13056.968,"text":"謝謝昭葦 有請次長"},{"start":13063.137,"end":13063.417,"text":"委員好"},{"start":13094.218,"end":13120.197,"text":"不好意思 我沒有想起來那就是我今天要講的就是我們產創條例實施三年那個想要透過跟產業界合作然後做創新的那當然在產創條例實施前所謂的產學合作利益都良好像你這個部分都講的是好的部分可是有很多的亂象那我覺得也是該到一個檢討的時期"},{"start":13122.198,"end":13150.757,"text":"上次我有問過部長不知道次長有沒有去了解就是楊交大的師生抗議覺得學校在建架迎合企業就是要讓群聯進駐原本人家捐給客家學院要做就是客家學院的土地那不知道次長有沒有了解這個事情的發展報告委員這個案子後來就撤案了後來撤案了那次長您的態度您覺得可是是在"},{"start":13152.098,"end":13159.343,"text":"市長,您對這件事情的態度是什麼呢?你覺得原本楊交大要這樣做到底是不是我們產學合作該做的方向?"},{"start":13173.587,"end":13189.693,"text":"我覺得他這個案子我覺得他其實確實是應該要顧及到當地的人文的這個原本的特色這件事情確實當初這樣子會引起這個課院的師生的抗議我覺得這個是有道理的"},{"start":13190.393,"end":13215.38,"text":"當然我是想請次長去了解一件事就是我們現在居然沒有任何的法規可以去規範就如果課院師生沒有出來抗議的話可能這整個事情你知道就過去了我們看起來好像覺得很不合理的一個產學合作的方向跟內容它幾乎沒有任何的法規我們可以處理那當然跟我們這個大學自主等等有相關"},{"start":13216.28,"end":13237.015,"text":"但是我要告訴次長的是這不是第一次而且我現在講的不是只有楊交大我現在光舉楊交大這麼一個國立大學我們私立大學的部分我們還先不要舉因為這個是發生在今年的事情我們辦公室也有接到陳情不過後來就是楊交大的那個案子就自己撤案了就沒有要讓群聯來用這一塊地蓋商辦"},{"start":13240.778,"end":13261.819,"text":"可是陽嬌大2021 二零二一年就發生過交應樓的爭議也發生過致遠樓的爭議那我已經跟教育部所知知道就是說你們其實是瞭解這個狀況的那你看2021年的時候這個華映捐的這個商業大樓它破產之後連媒體都報告過還想拿來變現抵債"},{"start":13265.242,"end":13269.366,"text":"至遠樓的部分也一樣他們還有產權爭議後來還在官司中5月30日法院才核定企業界沒有擁有產權"},{"start":13280.495,"end":13299.938,"text":"所以次長你怎麼看產權合作到最後產權還有爭議還在那個企業還想拿來抵押就是抵債然後就是還想要上法院要求要擁有這個產權我們怎麼產權合作到最後產權明明都是國立大學是不是國家的土地請問次長"},{"start":13301.005,"end":13318.821,"text":"跟委員報告,我們認為這是國家的土地國家的資源,進行產學合作不管是空間之後要怎麼運用,最重要的就是要在教育的目的之下不管他是轉租或是他做什麼事情,其實都還是要在教育目的之下"},{"start":13319.582,"end":13334.855,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":13339.096,"end":13341.919,"text":"有任何法規可以處理嗎?已經失去了教育的目的的話?學校跟任何產學他就訂一個產學合作的契約"},{"start":13355.615,"end":13381.925,"text":"那契約你們有辦法管理嗎?沒有,現在因為國立大學有關他的這些土地建物是由他來當管理機關不是教育部所以這個就是問題那台大就發生有一位教授去告說因為台大當時校長不願意公佈跟郭台銘的基金會的契約內容說是私人契約沒有需要公開後來告到法院法院最後判那個教授應該要公開因為是公共事務"},{"start":13382.865,"end":13408.375,"text":"所以現在這個契約連自己學校的教授都不能看所以這裡面一定是契約出了問題嘛那您剛講次長講得非常好要以教育為目的我們光以當時這個報導就是都已經不是教育的目的了學師生熬夜做研究那個企業大樓的管委會還嫌他們就是用水電是不是用太多不歡迎他們熬夜做研究"},{"start":13409.075,"end":13433.709,"text":"所以原本企業捐款蓋大樓因為學校需要這個錢可是土地明明是國家的是這個洋交大的最後會發生就是企業也沒有再提供什麼產學合作的機會了還租給別的企業當辦公室收租金所以這裡面這個亂象已經失去了教育的目的那問題就在於教育部好像無法可管"},{"start":13435.85,"end":13456.73,"text":"目前屬於國有財產有國有財產法的一個規定那他的規定就是剛才次長所講的所以你的意思是國有財產署要去管嗎?不是他如果不符合即使有產權合作的契約但是他符合國有財產法的那個目的的使用那只要不符合學校依法要給他收回所以依法誰去收回是國有財產署去收回嗎?學校"},{"start":13457.53,"end":13484.148,"text":"學校去收回,學校就不管啊,學校很高興啊簽那個約簽40年啊學校應該要依法收回但是學校沒有依法收回的時候呢?那我們就會督促學校應該去收回那你們看到剛剛那個新聞你們有去督促學校嗎?這個楊交大這個是2021年的新聞欸你們有去督促學校嗎?有關這個交應樓因為它華映公司破產了以後所以其實整個產權已經拿回到楊交大在使用"},{"start":13484.528,"end":13504.797,"text":"那只是因為他進入破產程序就會有一些債權出來主張那我現在要講是你這個已經是亡羊補牢了可是有多少這種約包含剛剛講臺大那個電機系教授去告的那個事情表示這個約本身有很大的問題所以我現在再舉更多的例子清華大學被學生抗議的臺北政經學院"},{"start":13506.718,"end":13527.566,"text":"還有2014年北科大經過中校東路都有看過北科大產學合作為名的出租大樓學生也看過無用便汽車賣場這個部分那是教育用途嗎請問那個次長北科大的校地賣汽車賣高檔汽車在中校東路上您有經過過吧那棟大樓不是那麼了解那棟大樓不是嗎"},{"start":13535.589,"end":13560.014,"text":"我說我不是那麼了解我不是說不是你不了解齁沒有關係齁這個部分齁其實到現在為止師生抗議國之後對就還是沒有辦法處理喔所以呢我想產學合作現在造成的問題就是齁校地變成商用產權引爭議跌床架屋最近還有台大的政經學院案齁就是齁校園民主似乎失靈了齁"},{"start":13560.754,"end":13560.774,"text":"次長．"},{"start":13584.164,"end":13587.69,"text":"委員是說就是台大最近依照我們這個產創條例通過的那個政經學院"},{"start":13593.193,"end":13617.834,"text":"第一次校務會議沒有通過因為很多老師反彈主要是政治系、經濟系的第二次不知道為什麼就通過了我要問的事情是當時十幾個民團跟學生會就認為他有很多的問題我想問的事情是次長你知不知道這個產學條例他會避開哪些高教重要法規這是一個特別法他避開了哪些法"},{"start":13619.871,"end":13637.748,"text":"我想他是在鬆綁一些關於採購人士的這些他會跳過大學法跳過教師法這兩個就夠重要了您應該會非常了解可是我們以台他這個例子為例就是學位授予法至少跳過了10條法因為他是特別法所以權力非常的大"},{"start":13638.428,"end":13651.176,"text":"但是以台大政經學院的過程當時我們講的不是政治經濟也不是地緣政治因為是產創嘛所以台大的教授寫文章次長有空可以看一下黃長林這位委員教授講的是這不符合我們產創條例的精神"},{"start":13655.359,"end":13657.743,"text":"但是這個部分是我們相關的審議會放寬的內容把這個政治經濟加進去當時我們講的都是類似像台積電等等這些半導體的那不知道為什麼是這樣那我想"},{"start":13672.102,"end":13672.122,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":13704.063,"end":13706.404,"text":"主席有請次長次長好賴清德總統多次宣誓要將台灣打造成AI智慧島"},{"start":13729.128,"end":13754.675,"text":"有提三個要點第一個是要穩定供電、多元預電第二個是要建制超級電腦第三個你知道是什麼嗎AI人才對培養人才培養人才方面總統說不管ICT產業、晶圓製造、半導體或人工智慧的人才政府都會持續培養讓台灣成為人工智慧島的目標可以實現"},{"start":13756.115,"end":13773.737,"text":"可是我們看到108課綱實施之後事實上大砍自然領域的學分數那過去物理化學生物跟地球科學必修學分有16個學分到108課綱只剩下8個學分等於上述這4個科目都只剩2個學分"},{"start":13775.079,"end":13794.219,"text":"這產生一些連鎖效應基本學分及上課時數不足教師只能拼命趕課學生在短時間內難以吸收收課時數減少後也相對影響了計算練習也影響後續尤其特別是學習理工進階課程的基礎"},{"start":13796.901,"end":13822.833,"text":"這樣的一個循環減損了學生的學習信心跟興趣那有很多的大學發現108課綱大學新生的數理能力弱化那微積分跟普通化學弱化尤其明顯那有些學者就擔心學生數理能力不足會削弱我們科技科學工程數學人才實力也同時會動搖我們國家半導體人才的根基"},{"start":13823.713,"end":13849.605,"text":"次長你是電機工程專家也在台大任教你有注意到學生數與能力的一個問題嗎跟委員報告我這台電機系至少看到沒有很明顯的感覺到也許台大不錯沒有明顯感受到那你覺得這些大學其他大學教授但又是有齊聚還是沒有根據"},{"start":13852.122,"end":13854.263,"text":"所以相反的看起來是非常的圓滿嘛對不對一切沒問題了"},{"start":13871.095,"end":13894.727,"text":"但是現在的問題是出在說跟委員報告就是說因為我們現在招生一直以來都是這個兩階段的招生很多學生在這個正式上了學校之後他下學期就請假這是個還蠻普遍的現象對那現在的狀況又是因為所以這個也沒有影響那這就有影響因為就有的學生他就高三下就沒有好這些危機分高三下他就沒辦法學起來對"},{"start":13895.447,"end":13909.157,"text":"但是問題是又在處在於說大學又希望多收學生大學現在是你今天就算高中沒有畢業他也可以入學可是剛剛次長你跟我講你在教學過程當中你沒有看到影響啊可見這個問題也沒有影響是這個意思嗎"},{"start":13911.018,"end":13913.259,"text":"我這樣講好了其實課綱實施以來真的問題重生啦有很多人有很多意見相信次長也都有看到那有些親身體驗的高中生說新課綱"},{"start":13930.408,"end":13942.152,"text":"提出了108課綱觀察報告首屆觀察報告說學生批評是一群住在象牙塔的學者們高團扩論以自身觀點構想一個無法落實的教育規劃這個是讓同學們"},{"start":13945.453,"end":13947.956,"text":"我自己也會應邀到我的選區的學校畢業典禮致詞"},{"start":13963.92,"end":13988.165,"text":"如果我到我的選區的高中致詞的時候跟大家講說我跟你講國會改革非常重要今天執政黨反國會改革就是反民主我們年輕同學們要站出來反對執政黨要力抗執政黨這種所謂的為了維護政府黑箱然後阻止今天國會改革希望同學們勇敢站出來你覺得我在高中畢業典禮講這段話合適嗎?"},{"start":13991.731,"end":14015.908,"text":"如果就委員剛才講的內容我覺得這個演講我必須要知道這個可能他的上下脈絡我就說假設我到畢業生當然我不會講啦我直接跟你講我怎麼會講這些話我說如果我在高中畢業典禮講這段話你覺得合適嗎因為我剛才嚇到我不知道委員當然啦跟你蠻不一樣"},{"start":14016.528,"end":14023.312,"text":"非常好就是你的反應你會嚇到我是嚇到說你講這些話對對對我跟你講就不會講嘛我不會講這些話嘛可是問題是這些話就有人講啊對不對我們教育基本法第6條規定教育本於中立原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動這教育基本法你應該認同吧對不對第6條的規定對不對可是抱歉我看到民進黨委員在成大南宮的畢業典禮上"},{"start":14043.522,"end":14043.562,"text":"以上,謝謝。"},{"start":14074.346,"end":14077.191,"text":"好 謝謝兩位接下來是邱志偉委員你要跟他換嗎?四分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":14097.645,"end":14100.812,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我想請葉市長、記者、楊市長。好,記者,謝謝。"},{"start":14109.971,"end":14131.16,"text":"市長,您有沒有到過南部的大學?或是技術體系的大學?有,上禮拜才去高科大高科大好,高科大是國立的嘛那私立的部分呢?有沒有去過?私立...上禮拜去開南大學,但它不是科大我的選區,大概有過去的高院科大,現在轉型"},{"start":14132.591,"end":14133.551,"text":"中信又接了一個科大環球遠東科大"},{"start":14154.858,"end":14157.519,"text":"另外一個模式,你有聽過素人醫教嗎?素人醫專嗎?"},{"start":14185.39,"end":14208.166,"text":"有齁那有沒有聽過這個在湖內湖內有一所你知道什麼設計學院東方有聽過嗎東方現在已經準備要退場嘛對不對為什麼相隔不到一公里哇素人衣裳搶搶棍我每年穿上那畢業典禮哇盛況空前那為什麼這個旁邊的"},{"start":14215.787,"end":14217.794,"text":"東方科大 面臨第二天的退場"},{"start":14219.684,"end":14246.056,"text":"市長你比較了解這兩個學校差異在哪裡跟委員報告素人醫專他是專科而且他的科系會比較屬於醫護、照護這方面然後有一些證照的科系所以他的招生是真的不錯這個是當然學生人數有7000人而且他不是在都會區交通也不方便"},{"start":14247.637,"end":14255.182,"text":"就是因為他的科系吸引學生所以這就是重點你要有科系吸引學生未來他們的就業有競爭力"},{"start":14257.256,"end":14279.566,"text":"所以未來你的自己的體系要往這方面去思考是 這個也是部長上來一直在跟我們講說要讓我們的大學去針對你周遭鄰近的產業他需求的人才不要所有的事情都推給少子化少子化是每一個人都會面對的海嘯每一個學生都會面對的海嘯為什麼素人醫專可以這個辦得那麼好一定有他的原因 對不對"},{"start":14281.243,"end":14310.038,"text":"那為什麼這個東方科大跟其他的科大為什麼要輪到退場也有它的原因不能完全歸咎要少子化所以你的政策國外很重要另外企業的導入企業資源的導入也很重要國內很多半導體產業半導體的大廠他們資金雄厚啊由他們來接手對他們而言是非常輕而易舉的事情但是可以培養他們所需要的人才"},{"start":14311.735,"end":14339.451,"text":"您現在手上口袋清單列出來目前只能等待要退場的計職大學有幾所市長跟委員報告目前就是7月今年這4所退場之後目前暫時是沒有的所以未來會更嚴重少子化問題還是一直惡化下去所以不是沒有救還是有就是你辦法要用對"},{"start":14340.868,"end":14341.748,"text":"另外Stan的領域"},{"start":14366.902,"end":14388.867,"text":"這個科學技術這個工程數學女性的部分我們比起歐盟這部分的畢業生比例相當於其他的國家是少很多怎麼樣這個女性各方面的條件不管在數學或者是科學"},{"start":14390.137,"end":14411.658,"text":"為什麼我們比例會比別人還低?比其他國家還低?主要原因是什麼?這個可能時間跟話的關係啊師長或者這個師長再去了解一下怎麼樣把這個比例能夠提升我們有一個計畫就是在推動提升女性投入實戰領域的你要有一個目標值有有有好謝謝"},{"start":14416.135,"end":14423.759,"text":"邱志威委員是非常尊重時間的還是要給你一個讚當然下面也有一個非常尊重時間的楊瓊英委員謝謝"},{"start":14439.061,"end":14451.853,"text":"市長好,我們今天討論高教,那高教的危機到底是怎麼樣呢?在你的這個歷程裡頭,你投資了在創新呢,不斷的在推廣"},{"start":14453.4,"end":14473.792,"text":"您有一句話蠻吸引人的您說您關注的不再是教學方面的一個層面而是要如何透過教育讓台灣的下一代更有能力跟自信的去面對變化快速的未來世界 對不對所以在這樣的一個情況之下"},{"start":14474.753,"end":14489.169,"text":"教育是百年大計它也是社會長遠健康發展以及提升總體的競爭力非常重要的奠基的工程你拼命的點頭但是有人憂心說目前的這個現況"},{"start":14490.831,"end":14491.051,"text":"請做說明"},{"start":14508.969,"end":14535.692,"text":"我想現在我們遇到的當然就是少子化的挑戰所以我們現在其實是對於這個少子化一方面我們其實政府的政策是我們在2030我們有非常大的這個人力的缺口大概三十四萬人臺灣的產業所以我們現在其實是非常積極的在幫助這些大學那用政府以前都是各自學校在海外招生我們現在就是一起打群架把集結大的力氣那我們在"},{"start":14536.172,"end":14536.272,"text":"進行專題報告．"},{"start":14563.015,"end":14581.322,"text":"本席給您一個方向目前我們政府推動的新南向政策其中一個最大的面向就是您剛才所說的人才的交流但是您沒有去盤點目前在國內的情況究竟是怎麼回事您告訴我的是2030年本席請問的是目前的社會現象"},{"start":14586.345,"end":14590.509,"text":"目前新會議現場南向政策的人才交流目前狀態是如何嗎?"},{"start":14595.014,"end":14615.226,"text":"跟委員報告我們從106年開始實施的新南向產學專班到112年我們總共已經有兩萬出頭的新南向的學生在臺灣就學所以這個其實是已經有增加了整個外籍學生的這樣的一個量當然持續的我們還會繼續來做相關計畫以擴增到2030我們要累積到"},{"start":14624.012,"end":14632.789,"text":"講到一個重點如果讓有些人是操作成為是補充學校學生園的一個人口"},{"start":14634.002,"end":14634.483,"text":"你去盤點好不好?"},{"start":14654.446,"end":14674.908,"text":"因為我們有一個政策下去我們必須要看它的結果是怎麼樣你去反點目前這些人的做法好的我們要宣導之不好的你要怎麼應對之因為你許下了到2030年要這樣的人數進來那想盡了一些辦法要怎麼樣去當高教"},{"start":14675.649,"end":14689.62,"text":"你的結果是如此嗎?所以也透過這樣子一個彩學專班合作來努力來推動所以你把你目前的盤點的方向然後書內資料給本席最後一個議題功課給你在競爭的這個國際高教的環境當中"},{"start":14695.924,"end":14719.805,"text":"我們也看到了目前有這個85%納入台灣大學當然也是你自己的學校我們比以往特別一個重點在於就業成果我們是往下滑的這個跟你的理念好像你要推廣的它反而是往下滑的是什麼原因你也把你這個詳細的書面資料給本席"},{"start":14723.964,"end":14742.718,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝楊純英委員 謝謝次長接下來我們請何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員張家俊委員 張家俊委員 張家俊委員鄭振淳委員 鄭振淳委員 鄭振淳委員 黃國昌委員"},{"start":14754.269,"end":14754.789,"text":"關於民意足協"},{"start":14782.11,"end":14785.97,"text":"我們國家支持迷你足協我也支持"},{"start":14787.062,"end":14809.81,"text":"我們給他非常多的錢希望把錢用在包口上讓我們這些小朋友可以有健康的身心去踢足球我們都樂觀其成但問題是什麼但問題是這個錢撒下去都可以胡搞瞎搞我相信這是大家全民的共識我在4月10號的時候我那個時候問了副署長說這些問題"},{"start":14813.171,"end":14836.661,"text":"你們什麼時候要查出來跟我說兩個禮拜徹查清楚結果我等到4月29號在質詢的時候那個時候換署長鄭世忠上來說說他們需要半年以上的時間在那次質詢的時候我就覺得很誇張查一個簡單的帳要花半年以上的時間來我請教一下現在"},{"start":14837.581,"end":14865.74,"text":"因為我到財政委員會我另外要求審計部針對這件事情要做專案的審計審計的報告請問體育署收到沒有報告委員昨天收到審計的那個報告人家早就做出來了你們還要開一個標案再去找外面的人來查現在審計部都幫你們查完了來我們來看一下審計部是怎麼講的"},{"start":14867.793,"end":14889.98,"text":"我當初就跟你們講一查全部都是自己人那些單據我初步一整理裡面偽造變造的痕跡就很明確結果你們持續的拖延持續的打太極說查要半年以上想要用時間換取空間看這件事情可不可以混過去來我們來看一下"},{"start":14891.64,"end":14905.41,"text":"審計部的報告第一點指出來的單據開立的時間點廠商已經解散或歇業解散或歇業可以再開發票出來請款嗎來請教一下副處長包委員應該是不可以的吧應該是不可以嘛所以你看審計部用的詞多重"},{"start":14914.266,"end":14930.016,"text":"已經涉及到刑事責任依照審計法移送法務部所屬調查機關查辦這已經是刑事犯罪行為了先業解散的公司還可以開發票"},{"start":14932.435,"end":14956.514,"text":"然後拿去跟你們體育署報帳這會不會太離譜啊我們2017年在做體育改革的時候就是要防止這種不孝的協會嘛吸納稅的血嘛結果到2024年的時候怎麼樣民主主席是政治後台比較硬喔敢這樣胡搞瞎搞喔再來看"},{"start":14958.271,"end":14986.9,"text":"依照政府採購法應該要辦理公開招標的他卻沒有依法辦理自己去選特定的廠商選哪些特定的廠商我之前整理給體育署看過了全部都是一家人還有自己協會的人出去開的公司什麼都賣結果審計部的調查報告說了什麼違法沒有按照政府採購程序而且高於什麼"},{"start":14989.41,"end":15010.03,"text":"類似商品的採購價格或市場行情一併依照審計法移送法務部所屬調查機關查辦各別的協會胡搞瞎搞所有涉案的人要負責追究法律責任沒有問題但問題是什麼問題是請問體育署在做什麼"},{"start":15011.167,"end":15034.082,"text":"為什麼我說體育署在做什麼來看一下審計報告體育署補助項目的檢核機制缺爐啊你們完全沒有設審核機制啊或者是雖然定有自行檢核表但也沒有落實審核啊對於審計部針對體育署檢核機制缺爐就是沒有啦"},{"start":15039.977,"end":15048.225,"text":"提議書有什麼要說的?他說的對不對?他說你沒有檢核機制應該要設檢核機制根本沒有檢核機制放縱這些個別的不肖的協會胡搞瞎搞"},{"start":15064.484,"end":15090.674,"text":"審計部有沒有說錯?跟委員報告應該是說我們在落實方面應該再加強啦人家說你檢核機制缺乳欸缺乳的中文字語很難理解嗎?來請一下次長這件事情的責任要不要追究?我想這個我們後續應該要在這個事情上因為秉承兄來自學界我們之前也是好朋友我對你有很高的期待"},{"start":15092.335,"end":15120.432,"text":"在行政機關當中出現這樣子的狀況能夠不追究責任嗎來請教次長我想這個我們應該要回去好好來檢討這到底是哪邊出了問題這不是哪邊出了問題啊我跟次長報告這是該做的事情根本沒有做這是該做的事情根本沒有做來最後一樣因為主席站起來了不好意思再跟主席借一分鐘就好了先跟科委員致歉再一分鐘就好了"},{"start":15121.328,"end":15133.775,"text":"他說你們應該要派員實地訪查結果你們根本沒有落實派員實地訪查過去這兩年只有書面審核然後你們書面審核大概是閉著眼睛審的審計部短短的時間抓了這麼多問題出來你們沒有派員實地查核用書面審查結果書面審查了以後你們也沒有發現受補助的體育團體"},{"start":15150.492,"end":15175.169,"text":"有問題人家一專案審計下去問題全部都跑出來這件事情一定要徹底的檢討怎麼發生的為什麼國民體育法修正通過了以後還會出現了我們以前所詬病沒有辦法容忍的狀態這件事情我希望教育部要去切實的督導體育署不要放任體育署這樣胡搞瞎搞"},{"start":15176.297,"end":15187.12,"text":"教育部作為上級的機關絕對有責任要求體育署徹底的檢討責任次長可不可以承諾需要多久不要跟我說要半年喔人家審計報告都提出來了"},{"start":15201.087,"end":15212.685,"text":"一個月之內我最後一個月回覆書面報告的時候順便解釋一下審計部的人跟我講去年的經費他們是不會容許核銷的"},{"start":15213.803,"end":15228.147,"text":"因為已經查到了造假違法了嘛審計部有審計部的職責啦查到違法不可能閉上眼睛他們已經明確的表態了2023年的經費絕對不會核銷2022年的經費還要追回來你們一個月以後的檢討報告順便針對這兩件事情2023年的經費2022年的經費發出去的錢怎麼處理一併說明清楚可以嗎"},{"start":15244.665,"end":15246.447,"text":"徐新穎委員謝依鳳委員蘇清泉委員鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":15266.804,"end":15267.024,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":15303.308,"end":15303.588,"text":"主席"},{"start":15313.763,"end":15314.783,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":15338.912,"end":15339.472,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}