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美股大漲我就請教 你剛才已經說了但是我還是請教 再說一遍好了是不是從此我們台灣的股市從此過上幸福美滿的日子一路往上攀升會這樣說嗎"},{"start":93.181,"end":118.198,"text":"要我回答嗎我剛剛也在講就是說金融市場他很顧忌的就是不確定性那所以也就是說這三個月給他緩衝因為這三個月他的結果是什麼還不曉得所以基本上整個的市場還是會籠罩在不確定性"},{"start":119.038,"end":135.89,"text":"所以不確定就不會一路往上衝因為他可能會做某些就也許有些時候會上去但是也許有些時候風吹草動的時候他又會下來所以不會就說現在美國要的資源不都滿足了啊他現在要的就是他這個財政部長講說640幾億的貿易逆差其實也從美國的資料算是739億那我算這個來講的話來講的話"},{"start":148.619,"end":166.973,"text":"台灣雖然現在90天裡面暫時豁免但是還是要課10%喔但是原來是1.7%中間就差8.3%8.3%是什麼概念我們去美國多少一年的輸出多少去年1100多億1100多億我們乘以8.3%大概90幾億美金折合台幣3000億所以從現在開始"},{"start":178.39,"end":182.274,"text":"他雖然把我們說要暫時90天 暫時WAVE掉暫時免除32%可是我們關稅仍然多付3000多億給美國"},{"start":190.015,"end":193.297,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說我們出口出去的產品他進口台灣的產品那這個要分大類可以分三種產品一種產品他就是他剛需他比較需要的"},{"start":210.109,"end":224.142,"text":"那需要的話 那這個就是說我沒有時間 只能聽你分析喔你現在就跟我講這個數字對不對啦對 這個呢 這個就是說你講的就是說是最嚴重的時候沒有 最嚴重就是這個數字在這裡喔好 來來來這個再確定一下喔他講說75國戰死後面 有沒有報告台灣 確定"},{"start":233.051,"end":260.252,"text":"他這個七十五國就應該是有包含了沒有應該還是確定這個我不曉得莊部長要不要確定一下七十五國有沒有包含台灣確定沒有他是講七十五國有去表達跟美國去協商那至於後來我們剛剛有講那個白宮的秘書有華爾街日報有他有表達他有直接就說除了中國以外"},{"start":260.852,"end":275.926,"text":"其他的國家 可增基本的關稅就加增10%的基本關稅可是他這次靠的是全國全世界是一百八十幾個國家欸不是只有只有只有七七七只有八十個國家不是欸他靠的是一百八十幾個國家"},{"start":276.707,"end":296.777,"text":"就全部的國家它是加徵10%的關稅另外有其他大概57個國家是加徵到另外有加一個4月9號以後是高於10的11到50%的一個對等關稅這個部分還有加25%的還有加25%的25%的那個是232的貿易條款裡面所以它也有一些暫時豁免的一些部分是"},{"start":304.315,"end":310.272,"text":"沒有 所以我就問你 你還沒有給我答案嘛台灣是不是確定在這75個豁免國家裡面 有沒有"},{"start":313.955,"end":335.323,"text":"美國新聞歷史所發布的就是它有證實這個部分確實是所有國家徵收百分之十的九十天的期間所有國家加徵百分之十的關稅那當然中國不在裡面啦是就是確定嘛就中國大陸不在裡面我們在裡面根據它這樣的證實好那現在我們現在來講說我們的進口從美國進口我們要零關稅這樣子稅損多少"},{"start":344.271,"end":364.799,"text":"至於零關稅這個部分根據總統也提到說從零關稅開始去跟他們去做談判那至於最後是不是所有的貨品是不是零關稅我想我們的貿易談判的工作小組他會去做模擬各種方式所以他不知道這個部分我們先跟報告的就是說我們知道去年的我們從美國進口的一個"},{"start":367.02,"end":368.183,"text":"4百多億美金客徵對美國徵收的關稅是7.5億美金"},{"start":376.657,"end":397.772,"text":"7.5億美金美國的計算7.5億美金但是裡面很多農產品對農民的損失對農民的壓力非常大的這個部分當然產業主管機關會去衡量第三個部分各縣市政府都希望財政部給他降稅"},{"start":401.535,"end":419.768,"text":"這個時間總裁也講了現在不穩定喔還不穩定喔沒有因此走上一個幸福快樂的日子還沒有喔還沒有到not ready yet你這個怎麼回應各地方政府希望能夠降稅降你的營所稅或降什麼稅whatever"},{"start":420.706,"end":443.48,"text":"有沒有可能這個部分對於有關的產業供應鏈的一個支持方案行政院已經提出了那支持方案裡面的一些項目或有沒有減稅這一項沒有減稅這一項沒有減稅這一項租稅的部分第一個租稅部分產創條例裡面有相關的一些減稅的優惠以及我們今天也我們也同時提到在我們的報告也提到"},{"start":443.94,"end":469.558,"text":"如果廠商受到或者民眾受到這個衝擊的話那稅可以申請延分期繳納分期繳納或者延後繳納沒有減稅這個所以沒有減稅這個選項啦所以地方政府是白搭的啦白講的啦好不好那我再請教這個彭主委啊台灣的股市過去幾天是不是已經進入休市了是不是"},{"start":470.763,"end":494.285,"text":"當然沒有,我們過去其實兩天交易量其實非常正常熊市是看你的跌幅啊不是那個當然是比如說剛才像今天就反映的跌幅超過120了對,當然比如說學理上有一個所謂的熊市的定義不過熊市還是要看它實際上的狀況我們看今天的情況如果說回復以外說按照那個定義其實上可能還不到那個程度"},{"start":496.499,"end":517.276,"text":"其實從去年的七月中到今年的一月初啊就已經跌了22.9%那時候老實講 從去年中到今年初如果按照20%的一個講法就是熊死了所以好 那今天這樣子活著暫時豁免90%要讓有他人立場 你有你立場"},{"start":518.69,"end":534.117,"text":"從此台灣的股市是不是一路順利往上走當然金管會不會去預測未來的走勢那我想說因為他是充分的反應我想各位如果有比較過過去這個台灣的產業結構還跟國際股市的發展台灣在這三天確實是"},{"start":539.999,"end":551.665,"text":"應該是有疊的比較多那實際上我覺得應該製作事實的回覆我想這個部分應該是好請兩位長官先回座我再請那個楊總裁楊總裁啊是你在這裡回覆一個立委講說外匯存底92%馬美債這是確定嗎對不對這個沒有確定"},{"start":566.493,"end":574.095,"text":"那你都公開回答了不是我公開我是我們的副總裁副總裁講錯了但是是確實他是說錯了"},{"start":576.374,"end":580.836,"text":"還是多少我們應該又說是8以前我就講過啦我們的美債大概有八成以上八成 八十二八十一 八十二 八十九八成 八成以上因為我也不能就是說跟你講是一個確定的數據為什麼呢因為匯率呢匯率都時常在變動所以這個比例也都會時常在變動那大概85左右可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":604.775,"end":607.096,"text":"我只能說是80%以上現在有一種講法說川普為什麼把這次跟世界這樣子"},{"start":626.343,"end":632.752,"text":"開這個手術大刀就是希望能夠解決他的美債的問題因為美債超過36兆美金這個傢伙對吧"},{"start":638.974,"end":657.322,"text":"對啦 也可以這麼說但是我覺得比較準確的說法是說他要把美國的政府的deficit就是他的budget deficit要能夠下降下來對嘛 就是介紹他的美債嘛那以現在來講的話日本或者大陸都在拋售美債"},{"start":665.846,"end":687.577,"text":"500億最近有一個數字跑出來了雖然還沒有到最後Final這樣子因為他今年6月美國6.5兆的美金6.5兆國庫券再到期了被要求轉入長債長債高達30年50年那利率更低有的甚至要0"},{"start":688.437,"end":708.857,"text":"一百年常債常債三十年期的多現在比十年期的多還高啊怎麼有可能就是說要那個把它到一百年那然後呢是零利率這個是不可能的不可能那不可能外面有媒體這樣報導我覺得這是不可能的好最後一點我們就請潘主委上來請那個楊總裁下去請"},{"start":715.171,"end":742.926,"text":"本身有一個小問題問我就可以下去了不少出入股市者怕被斷頭用保單 用信貸來支應萬一股市再跌要像這樣 stable 完全穩定會不會產生系統性的風暴儘管會怎麼來對這些人這些人很多是剛加入股市的特別是年輕的剛大學畢業或者在學生 在校學生"},{"start":743.886,"end":761.623,"text":"其實跟委員報告其實我們非常關注這個問題我們也隨時請交易所關注這個比如說他們這些的profile長什麼樣我們發現這個段頭的大概是七成大概就是40到69歲的族群是占最多數那其實這個部分當然人數最近比較多"},{"start":762.444,"end":791.479,"text":"但是我覺得我們這個部分呢還在一個可控我們是會提供一些盡量提供一些協助什麼協助什麼協助像我們第一波的方案裡面也提到就是說再來就是我們希望可以比如說這個補這個擔保品的部分呢能夠更多元我們市場上反映很多問題我們立刻去解決當然有些系統上的問題不是一下就能解決不過我們這部分呢我們就盡量去協助這些因為這個不確定因素而遭受一時之間沒辦法融通的這些"},{"start":792.379,"end":802.61,"text":"現在目前看起來還不至於我們還是真的非常非常的關心這個問題我們持續的就請教育所這邊會關注 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":319,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時54分）謝謝主席。有請央行的楊總裁、財政部的莊部長，以及金管會的彭主委，三位長官一起。"],["主席：楊總裁、莊部長、彭主委。"],["楊總裁金龍：賴召委早。"],["賴委員士葆：三位長官好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員你好。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：最近這個禮拜都是川普周嘛！大家大街小巷談著川普，本來大家看起來都不知道該怎麼辦，大家看起來一副1930年代，1929、1930年那時候的美國總統Hoover，那時候也是做兩件事情，一件是關稅，引起關稅的大戰；第二個是升息，這點川普比他聰明，川普現在準備降息。所以那時候開始就來一個大蕭條，美國的股市花了25年才讓它回到原來的水準，所以這個東西很慘烈，看起來很慘烈。現在好不容易川普暫停90天，只課10%，美股大漲。你剛才已經說了，但我還是想請教，你再說一遍好了，是不是我們臺灣的股市從此過上幸福美滿的日子，一路往上攀升？可以這樣說嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：要我回答嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：是，請你回答。"],["楊總裁金龍：我剛剛也在講，金融市場很顧忌的就是不確定性，所以也就是這三個月給它緩衝，因為這三個月它的結果是什麼還不曉得，所以基本上整個市場還是會籠罩在不確定性，除非……"],["賴委員士葆：所以不確定？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員士葆：不確定性就不會一路往上衝，是這個意思？"],["楊總裁金龍：因為它可能會做……也許有些時候會上去，但是也許有些風吹草動的時候，它又會下來，所以不會……"],["賴委員士葆：現在美國要的幾乎我們都滿足了，他的財政部長講說六百四十幾億的貿易逆差，其實從美國的資料算是739億，我算這個來講的話，臺灣雖然現在90天裡面暫時豁免，但還是要課10%喔！原來是1.7%，中間就差8.3%，8.3%是什麼概念？我們去年一年對美國的輸出多少？一千一百多億嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：一千一百多億我們乘以8.3%，大概是九十幾億美金，折合臺幣3,000億，所以從現在開始，他雖然在90天內把我們暫時waive掉，暫時免除32%，可是我們仍然多付三千多億的關稅給美國，我這樣講對吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：我這樣講對吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們出口出去的產品，它進口臺灣的產品，這個產品可以分成三大類，一種產品是它的剛需，是它比較需要的，既然是需要的話，出口商跟……"],["賴委員士葆：我沒有時間聽你分析，你現在就跟我講這個數字對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。這個就是說，你講的是最嚴重的時候是這樣。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有最嚴重，數字就是在這裡啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：不，這是最嚴重的，因為……。"],["賴委員士葆：來、來、來，這個再確定一下。他講75國暫時豁免，有沒有確定包括臺灣？"],["楊總裁金龍：這75國應該是有包含我們臺灣。"],["賴委員士葆：是應該還是確定？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我不曉得。"],["賴委員士葆：莊部長要不要確定一下？75國有沒有包括臺灣？確定沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：當時他是講75國有去表達要跟美國協商。"],["賴委員士葆：對。"],["莊部長翠雲：至於後來我們剛剛有講，白宮的秘書，就是華爾街日報有報導，他直接就說除了中國以外，其他的國家加徵10%基本的關稅。"],["賴委員士葆：可是他這次課了全世界一百八十幾個國家耶，不是只有80個國家耶！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，全部的國家是加徵10%的關稅。"],["賴委員士葆：對啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：另外有其他大概57個國家在4月9號要另外加徵高於10%，也就是11%到50%的對等關稅。"],["賴委員士葆：還有加25%的啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼是加25%？"],["賴委員士葆：還有加25%的。"],["莊部長翠雲：25%的那個是在232貿易條款裡面的，所以它也有一些暫時豁免的部分。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我就問你，但你還沒有給我答案。"],["莊部長翠雲：你要什麼答案？"],["賴委員士葆：臺灣是不是確定在這75個豁免國家裡面？有沒有？你要確定啊！這個有沒有確定？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，照美國新聞秘書所發布的，它有證實這個部分，確實是所有國家徵收10%，90天的期間所有國家加徵10%的關稅。"],["賴委員士葆：好，所以就是確定。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，中國不在裡面。"],["賴委員士葆：就是確定嘛！就是中國大陸不在裡面，但我們在裡面。"],["莊部長翠雲：根據它這樣的證實。"],["賴委員士葆：好，現在我們來講我們的進口，從美國進口我們要零關稅，這樣的稅損是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：至於零關稅這個部分，根據總統表示要從零關稅開始跟他們談判，但最後所有的貨品是不是零關稅，我想我們貿易談判的工作小組會去模擬各種方案。"],["賴委員士葆：所以還不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分，我們現在報告的是，我們知道去年我們從美國進口的量……"],["賴委員士葆：有四百多億美金。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，四百多億美金。課徵的、對美國徵收的關稅是7.5億美金。"],["賴委員士葆：7.5億美金？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["賴委員士葆：金額不多啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：美國計算出來是7.5億美金。"],["賴委員士葆：但是裡面有很多農產品，對農民的損失、對農民的壓力是非常大的。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分當然要由產業主管機關去衡量。"],["賴委員士葆：第三個部分，各縣市政府都希望財政部降稅，總裁也講了，現在還不穩定，沒有因此走上一個幸福快樂的日子，還沒有喔，還沒有到、not ready，這個你怎麼回應？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分……"],["賴委員士葆：各地方政府希望能夠降稅，降你的營所稅或降你的什麼稅whatever，有沒有可能？財政部有沒有評估？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分，對於有關的產業供應鏈的支持方案行政院已經提出了，支持方案裡面的一些項目或金額等等可以……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有減稅這一項？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有減稅這一項。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有減稅這一項？"],["莊部長翠雲：租稅的部分，第一個，產創條例裡面有相關的減稅優惠，以及我們今天也同時在報告提到，如果廠商或民眾受到這個衝擊的話，稅可以申請延、分期繳納。"],["賴委員士葆：分期繳納或者延後繳納，沒有減稅這個選項，所以地方政府是白搭了、白講了。","我再請教彭主委，臺灣的股市過去幾天是不是已經進入熊市了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然沒有，我們過去兩天的交易量其實非常正常，而且也……"],["賴委員士葆：熊市是看你的跌幅，不是……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然是……比如說今天就反映了……"],["賴委員士葆：跌幅超過20%了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，比如說學理上對所謂的熊市有一個定義，不過是不是熊市還是要看實際上的狀況，我們看今天的情況，如果有回復的話，按照那個定義，其實可能還不到那個程度。"],["賴委員士葆：其實從去年7月中到今年1月初就已經跌了22.9%，那個時候老實講，從去年中到今年初如果按照20%的講法就是熊市了。今天這樣暫時豁免90天，他有他的立場，你有你的立場，從此臺灣的股市是不是一路順利往上走？是不是可以這樣講？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，金管會不會去預測未來的走勢，我想……"],["賴委員士葆：要給人家信心啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，因為它是充分地反映，我想各位如果有比較過過去臺灣的產業結構，還有國際股市的發展，臺灣在這3天確實應該是有跌得比較多，我想這時候適時地回復應該是合理的。"],["賴委員士葆：請兩位長官先回座，我再請楊總裁。楊總裁，你在這裡回復一個立委說，外匯存底92%買美債，這個是確定的，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個沒有確定。"],["賴委員士葆：你都公開回答了！"],["楊總裁金龍：不是我公開，而是我們的副總裁。"],["賴委員士葆：副總裁講錯了？"],["楊總裁金龍：他確實是說錯了。"],["賴委員士葆：那是多少？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們應該是八……以前我就講過了，我們的美債大概有八成以上。"],["賴委員士葆：八成是81%、82%還是89%？有沒有85%？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，八成以上，因為我也不能跟你講一個確定的數據，為什麼呢？因為匯率都時常在變動，所以這個比例也是時常在變動。"],["賴委員士葆：好，大概是在85%左右，可以這樣講吧？我猜85%左右，可以這樣猜嗎？沒有離譜啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我也不能說是，只能說是80%以上。"],["賴委員士葆：85%也是80%以上。"],["楊總裁金龍：80%以上。"],["賴委員士葆：現在有一種講法是，川普這一次為什麼要對世界開這個手術大刀，就是希望能夠解決他們美債的問題，因為美債超過36兆美金。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：這個講法對吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，也可以這麼說，但我覺得比較準確的說法是，他要把美國政府的budget deficit降下來。"],["賴委員士葆：對嘛！就是減少美債嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：準確的應該是這樣說啦！"],["賴委員士葆：以現在來講，日本或大陸都在拋售美債，500億，最近有一個數字跑出來了。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員士葆：雖然還沒有到最後（final），因為今年6月美國6.5兆美金的國庫券到期，被要求轉入長債，長債高達30年、50年，那樣利率更低，有的甚至是到0%、100年。"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，它30年期的長債現在都比10年期的還高，怎麼有可能讓它到100年，然後是零利率？這個是不可能的事。"],["賴委員士葆：好，那不可能，因為有媒體這樣報導。"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得這是不可能的事情。"],["賴委員士葆：最後一點要請彭主委上來，請楊總裁下去。","彭主委，我有一個小問題，問完就可以下去了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["賴委員士葆：不少出入股市者怕被斷頭，用保單、用信貸來支應，萬一股市再跌，因為現在還沒有stable，還沒有完全穩定，會不會產生系統性的風暴？金管會怎麼對這些人……這些人很多是剛加入股市的，特別是年輕的、剛大學畢業或是在校學生。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，其實我們非常關注這個問題，我們也隨時請交易所關注他們這些人的profile長怎麼樣，我們發覺這些斷頭的有七成大概都是40歲到69歲的，這個族群是占最多數。其實這個部分的人數最近比較多，但是我覺得這個部分還是可控的，我們是會儘量提供一些協助，像第一波的……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼協助？"],["彭主任委員金隆：像第一波的方案也提到，比如擔保品的部分能夠更多元，市場上反映很多問題，我們就立刻去解決，當然有些系統的問題不是一下就能解決，不過這部分我們就儘量去協助，因為不確定因素而遭受一時資金沒辦法融通的這些客戶。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你認為會不會產生系統性的風暴？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在目前看起來還不至於。"],["賴委員士葆：under control？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["賴委員士葆：我覺得你需要對外跟這些年輕人多教育。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們是非常、非常關心這個問題，會持續請交易所關注，謝謝。"],["主席（賴委員士葆）：好，下一位請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":414,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-7","speakers":["賴士葆","林思銘","鍾佳濱","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","李坤城","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","黃珊珊","羅明才","廖先翔","葉元之","顏寬恒","徐欣瑩","林楚茵","陳冠廷","王世堅"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、行政院主計總處陳主計長\n淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部郭部長智輝、農業部陳部長駿季就「川普對等關稅政策實施，\n對我國股匯市、經濟成長、物價、房市等項所造成之衝擊與因應措施」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；二、審查「納稅者權利保護法」4案：(一)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「納稅者權利保護法\n部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「納稅者權利保護法第四條條文修正草\n案」案、( 三) 本院委員林思銘等20 人擬具「納稅者權利保護法第七條及第二十一條條文修正草\n案」案、( 四) 本院委員林思銘等18 人擬具「納稅者權利保護法第二十一條條文修正草案」案；\n三、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」 8 案： ( 一 ) 本院委員鍾佳濱等 18 人、委員鍾佳濱等 23\n人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案」等 3案、(二)\n本院委員陳超明等18人、委員邱志偉等16人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修\n正草案」等2案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人、委員顏寬恒等16人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型\n營業稅法第十三條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「加值型及非加值型\n營業稅法第五十八條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143601_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}