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請理事長理事長好首先我請教我們的理事長根據我們的資料顯示3月底我們的外匯存底是5780億美金"},{"start":33.223,"end":54.594,"text":"那又根據報導我們投資在美國國債是92%等於是5200億美金那現在美國的國債是負債36兆美金一年的利息就要增加一兆多的美金那現在"},{"start":56.004,"end":71.877,"text":"美國發起這個關稅債當然現在90千的款重啟出來了但是我請教你他會不會在這個關稅債裡面來跟我們談條件譬如3年的美國國債3個月的美國國債你幫我延遲3年10年的美國國債你幫我延遲20年30年的美國國債延到50年"},{"start":85.219,"end":91.942,"text":"第二個可能他會跟你偷偷的暗中要求不要互利息你們會不會遭遇到這樣的情形"},{"start":93.122,"end":120.169,"text":"包委因為當然談判的內容我們現在也不是很清楚那當然這個部分我沒有辦法在這邊回應沒有辦法在這邊講我是簡直來叫你要注意川普生意人他會算這個我看他主要的目的就在這個地方所以你們要有準備經濟部長帶著微笑表示他認同還有一點現在兩岸的關係非常的嚴峻"},{"start":121.791,"end":138.608,"text":"兩邊一開戰的時候我們做五千七百億的美債外匯存頂萬一不像台灣失敗的話做五千七百億的那個我們的"},{"start":140.587,"end":163.488,"text":"外匯成品到底是死於中華人民共和國還是台灣獨立國還是台灣民主國還是美利堅共和國會歸死到哪裡這個情形有可能發生你不要笑笑不做準備委員非常高瞻眼睛不是高瞻眼睛是未雨卓妙"},{"start":164.938,"end":184.882,"text":"先退下之憂而憂 後退下之樂而樂我看這個情況也要特別注意啊當然這個問題不能深談啦但是點出來 特別注意一下私底下再跟你請教啦有可能發生 有可能發生好不好請回座然後我來請我們的農業部長請農業部長喂齁 陳部長好"},{"start":193.956,"end":220.408,"text":"那我們現在談判我們賴總統我們執政黨提出零居關稅的談判阿美國是農業大國我現在請教你一個事實的問題我們從美國進口的農產品比我們銷到美國的農產品一年大概差多少我們是勝差還是逆差逆差28億逆差多少28億"},{"start":222.318,"end":240.305,"text":"加起來28億我們黃豆什麼都進口我們從美國買的東西36.9億我們銷到美國的是8.9億所以逆差是28億我們怎麼會進口那麼少我們不是疫苗那些很多我講的是美金喔好那你在這樣的一個狀況之下"},{"start":242.731,"end":264.109,"text":"你所有的農產品我們這邊是逆差它是差你最好不要調不然會害死我們台灣農民你們敢不敢這樣紀理立生這個是一個談判的條件我想雙方的這些關稅的談判一定是基於雙方互贏的方向我說我們用這個來談"},{"start":266.968,"end":275.873,"text":"28.多億跟我們8.9億在那幾兆進出口裡面那個微微的毛毛移的那個好像是我們在推你們要堅持計算"},{"start":277.711,"end":295.01,"text":"因為我現在先跟你講你開放聯機關稅不是對美國的問題台灣的地位你也曉得為了維持各個友邦的關係如果其他國家提出來跟美國一樣聯關稅稅金你要怎樣這個才是重點這個才是問題啊"},{"start":297.779,"end":316.23,"text":"我想所有的關稅談判裡面喔其實不同的國家也是一樣喔農業它有它的特性所以農業本身的這些談判絕對不是說所有的品項都是零關稅我覺得台灣的農業之後在G7八年的執政政案下來會很慘第一個 精緻農業一定要堅持第二個 能量物理要做好"},{"start":317.554,"end":342.607,"text":"第三個深層加工要做好其實世界很廣大台灣人很聰明可以調各種料理做出最好的料理你們要不要在這方面研究我覺得你要改進到這個地方你才有辦法我們台灣農業歷史世界不然你自己丟在這裡可以說自給自足而已不然你就自己丟在這裡自給自足就好"},{"start":343.584,"end":364.066,"text":"如果你們這樣的作為沒有新的師的作為現在我去看了很多工廠做的加工的產業做的非常清楚非常好現在人不煮飯啦這裡面的小姐都不會煮也不會殺雞殺鴨殺鵝啊不像我們改變觀念改變思維台灣的農業才有救"},{"start":365.147,"end":384.601,"text":"謝謝委員的建議 其實我們已經在做了很多農產品的加工加值其實它的加工效益會比較大像中東你要消氣 你要曉得它的外勞有多少哪一個地方的外勞 什麼口味去研究嘛因為我跑過那個地方 我曉得啦好不好 因為我要問郡主會長好不好 好好 請回座"},{"start":397.74,"end":424.687,"text":"郭部長好我今天的主題我有一個吃中的朋友很要好他是順利死於台獨了而且每次總統選舉特地趕回來台灣可以請假一個月替你們自治黨服刑那他為什麼雖然我吃中好友他為什麼會支持我他說我最不像自治人物的政治人物"},{"start":426.26,"end":453.41,"text":"那我今天他發給的內容我讀給你聽我也不曉得他發這個內容我覺得他思想改變了他跟我講因為美國已經沒有政治才使世界大失所望因為中國要強國而不是幸福大國那裡面川普說台積電是假通"},{"start":454.619,"end":470.065,"text":"他住在偉大的美利均共和國那美國就是強盜盜的這他寫給我一個簡訊表示他們的憤怒台灣幾十年的辛辛苦苦捐起來的IC產業"},{"start":471.565,"end":487.675,"text":"你曉得以前成衣外銷大概要一百個貨櫃才能換他一台戰車一個飛彈我們是趕空前去賺的他們在榮華富貴在享受他不會忘記這一切大事罷錢罷職那我以這個事情我要問你請教你幾個問題台積電很重要"},{"start":497.441,"end":513.532,"text":"美國威脅說你台積電不來建廠我就100%的關稅那美國它只要要掌握40%的產量控制且限制台灣台積電以後未來的外銷它有限制在"},{"start":514.622,"end":543.271,"text":"中國在美國上山 台灣現在上山 你要怎麼來應付被他限制的時時 用的地方會大概那幾個國家在使用他會去用 會在周邊的應用所以台灣的電子競 包括台積電在台灣何去何從 你有想到嗎我這點你要先研究一下那你們以前也信誓旦旦說台積電的NR中心一定會不會到美國"},{"start":544.551,"end":567.019,"text":"人家大國啊,不用嘴巴講得很滿啊你們現在乖乖也是要過去以前在修理台積電核心的商業精密核心的技術都要給他你們現在都不敢講當時對台灣我們愛台灣的保障在哪裡?絕對不被研發中心精密資料不被給他乖乖的奉送給他們另外我還要請教你統一作黨這個要特別注意"},{"start":573.78,"end":600.988,"text":"台積電跟英特爾 國安會 劉思維說柴油跟汽油不能混合那我也很奇怪 到底能不能混合因為這卡路里有托勞斯還是什麼安置在他也想要製造一個嗆艇養一隻老虎來去咬台積電 怕他萬一受打這你要去考慮一下不然台灣的企業行行口口白奉獻給別人"},{"start":602.288,"end":614.125,"text":"再來我要跟你談到第三點埃及的成熟製品現在連電是世界第四大的他要跟那個美國什麼格羅荒"},{"start":616.181,"end":632.763,"text":"什麼公司第五大要合併我看是有可能你們講不可能報紙都寫你要去談判你要好好談判第一大的已經被拿走了第二大又被拿走了台灣剩下什麼跟我講好好的講剩下什麼"},{"start":634.266,"end":660.721,"text":"你們想來要知道,這臺灣的感恐你以前有那小企業一直做到現在一個算起來也是一個中大企業每一步每一步都是臺灣人辛苦流血流亡自己打造出來,窮苦了人家沒有人保護你,只有自力困難不要輕易把臺灣打造到現在你們就輕易放鬆給別人,不要危殆"},{"start":662.031,"end":686.644,"text":"可以去忍受,就忍受,我就要跟你說所以你要記得台灣剩下什麼但是我說台灣的企業家就是游牧民主哪裡有回炒就完了,很可憐的不然你們八年的執政提了好幾個政策,我現在也在聽別的,還原台商回台投資行動方案"},{"start":690.988,"end":705.624,"text":"恍恍惚惚,熱熱鬧鬧,確實很多台商回來了。第二個,更留台灣企業加速投資行動方案。再來,中小企業加速投資方案,這些人花了幾十萬在這裡,要搞台灣這塊工啊。"},{"start":709.104,"end":735.305,"text":"要更留台灣喔蔡英文當總統的時候就推動南向政策鼓勵中國在大陸的台商往東南亞去走我今天再看就不錯我們的賴執政黨的賴子熙我們現在的賴總統說要偷中日本我們要順化經貿"},{"start":737.301,"end":753.274,"text":"以美意取轉型,又以自由經濟的實力,立足台灣,步及全球,形成全球的台灣,再機適以人才相互依賴。但是我總得要強調,總值趨勢很厲害,"},{"start":760.205,"end":770.619,"text":"歐美的白種人永遠看不起黃種人我要跟你講這根深蒂固除了日本人以外他稍微不起勢仔細站起來"},{"start":772.117,"end":798.984,"text":"他把中國大陸講鄉巴佬台灣是不是鄉巴佬你去別人找才不會去別人找各種文化有很多不一樣我現在懷疑你們是把台灣這隻羊送入到那白種人歐美的虎口裡面我們自己做什麼台灣的外交關係能保護多少台商你講我們都心知肚明"},{"start":800.307,"end":825.335,"text":"站起來我就不講多,你也不用回答,我把我心中的感受跟你講順滋順滋台灣這塊土地搞得好,不像你的執政黨,東西南北都要遊牧民族變民搞得現在都不曉,感染要感染一個方向哪邊有草可以吃都是你們提出來八年時間的變化東西南北征戰"},{"start":826.803,"end":844.648,"text":"台商都到現在一無所有倒是在水深火熱在掙扎之中他賺的外匯是離不來台灣你們真的要好好愛惜這塊土地那我跟你講中小企業會變成一個痛苦區然後我跟台積電幾個高階主管"},{"start":846.71,"end":862.519,"text":"痛苦期就要磨練自己技術要磨要深化提升它的價值在中小企業大量的就中小企業如果台灣沒有留住中小企業就沒有未來台灣中小企業"},{"start":864.472,"end":880.133,"text":"是真的是跟佔了70部分就業人口大企業你不要去管他現在錢多多你反而要照顧中小企業他自取生路已經有國際的成本主席站了那麼久"},{"start":881.575,"end":903.655,"text":"我坐下來一談到執政團他就站起來了我是真心的為台灣我是蔣經營人謝謝委員的提示不是提示啦 感受遠深啦你可能平反時我們會更獲取更大的利益那一段來過我們有技術本領嘛我們獨一無二嘛"},{"start":905.791,"end":915.735,"text":"這台電我相信你自己能感受得到台灣在助力更生助力成長的過程我們是驕傲的台灣但是不要被執政黨出賣掉謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":539,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時17分）主席，首先有請我們財政部李次長。"],["主席：請李次長。"],["李次長慶華：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：李次長好。首先請教李次長，根據資料顯示，3月底我們的外匯存底是5,780億美金，又根據報導，我們投資在美國國債是92%，等於是5,200億美金，現在美國的國債是負債36兆美金，一年的利息就要增加一兆多的美金，現在美國發起關稅戰，當然現在90天的緩衝期出來了，但是我請教你，它會不會在這個關稅戰裡面來跟我們談條件？譬如3個月的美國國債，你幫我延成3年；10年的美國國債，你幫我延20年；30年的美國國債延到50年？第二個，可能它會偷偷跟你暗中要求不要付利息，你們會不會遭遇到這樣的情形？"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，當然談判的內容，我們現在也不是很清楚，這個部分，我沒有辦法在這邊回應委員。"],["陳委員超明：沒有辦法在這邊講，我是點出來叫你要注意，川普是生意人，他很會算這個，我看他主要的目的就在這個地方，所以你們要有準備，我看經濟部長帶著微笑表示他認同。還有一點，現在兩岸關係非常嚴峻，兩邊一開戰的時候，我們這5,700億的美債、外匯存底，萬一不幸，萬一不幸臺灣失敗的話，這5,700億的外匯存底，到底是屬於中華人民共和國的、還是臺灣獨立國、還是臺灣民主國、還是美利堅共和國的？會歸屬到哪裡？這個情形有可能發生喔！你不要笑笑不準備啊！"],["李次長慶華：是，委員，委員非常高瞻遠矚啦！"],["陳委員超明：不是高瞻遠矚，是未雨綢繆，先天下之憂而憂，後天下之樂而樂，我看這個情況也要特別注意啊！"],["李次長慶華：好，我們這個會注意。"],["陳委員超明：當然這個問題不能深談啦！"],["李次長慶華：是，對，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：但是點出來特別注意一下，私底下再跟你請教啦，有可能發生，好不好？很嚴重。"],["李次長慶華：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：然後我來請我們的農業部長。"],["主席：請農業部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：陳部長好。我們現在談判，我們賴總統、我們執政黨提出零關稅的談判，美國是農業大國，我現在請教你一個實質的問題，我們從美國進口的農產品比我們銷到美國的農產品一年大概差多少？我們是順差還是逆差？"],["陳部長駿季：逆差28億。"],["陳委員超明：逆差多少？"],["陳部長駿季：28億。"],["陳委員超明：加起來28億？我們黃豆什麼都進口。"],["陳部長駿季：我們從美國買的東西36.9億，我們銷到美國的是8.9億，所以逆差是28億。"],["陳委員超明：我們怎麼會進口那麼少？我們不是玉米啦，那些很多……"],["陳部長駿季：我講的是美金喔！"],["陳委員超明：好，在這樣的狀況之下，你所有的農產品，我們這邊是逆差、它順差，你最好不要調，不然會害死我們臺灣農民，你們敢不敢這樣據理力爭？這個是一個談判的條件。"],["陳部長駿季：我想雙方的這些關稅談判一定是基於雙方互贏的方向去……"],["陳委員超明：我說我們用這個來談，二十八點多億跟我們八點多億，在那幾兆進出口裡面，那個微微的、毛毛雨的好像風在吹，你們要堅持拒徵。我現在先跟你講，你開放零關稅，不是對美國的問題，臺灣的地位你也曉得，為了維持各個友邦的關係，如果其他國家一樣跟美國提出零關稅稅基，你要怎樣辦？這個才是重點啊，這個才是問題啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我想所有的關稅談判裡面，其實不同的國家也是一樣，農業有它的特殊性……"],["陳委員超明：我覺得……"],["陳部長駿季：所以農業本身的這些談判絕對不是所有的品項都是零關稅。"],["陳委員超明：我覺得臺灣的農業如果再繼續這樣8年執政下去會很慘，第一個，精緻農業一定要堅持；第二個，冷鏈物流要做好；第三個，生產加工要做好。其實世界很廣大，臺灣人很聰明，可以調各種料理，做出最好的料理。你們沒有在這方面研究，我覺得你要改進到這個地方，我們臺灣農業才有辦法立足世界，不然我們只有給自己吃，可以說自給自足而已，不然你乾脆就自己吃，自給自足就好。如果以你們這樣的作為，沒有新的作為，我去看了很多工廠，加工的產業都做得非常好，現在人不煮飯啦，這裡面的小姐都不會煮，也不會殺雞、殺鴨、殺鵝啊，需要改變觀念、改變思維，臺灣的農業才有救。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的建議，其實我們已經在做了，很多農產品的加工加值，其實它附加的效益會比較大。"],["陳委員超明：你要成立專案……像你要銷去中東，你要曉得它的外勞有多少，哪一個地方的外勞、什麼口味，去研究嘛！因為我跑過那個地方，我曉得啦！好不好？因為我還要問經濟部長。"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經在做了，謝謝委員的建議，我們已經在做了。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？好，請回座。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：郭部長好。我今天的主題，我有一個初中的朋友很要好，他是深綠，屬於臺獨啦，而且每次總統選舉都特地趕回來臺灣，可以請假一個月，替你們執政黨輔選。雖然他是我初中好友，他為什麼會支持我？他說我是最不像政治人物的政治人物，我今天把他發給我的內容讀給你聽，我也不曉得他發這個內容，我覺得他思想改變了，他跟我講，因為美國已經沒有正直，才使世界大失所望；中國要強國，而不是幸福大國。川普說台積電是小偷，他住在偉大的美利堅共和國，美國就是強盜、盜匪。這是他寫給我的簡訊，表示他們也憤怒，這是臺灣幾十年來辛辛苦苦建起來的IC產業。你曉得以前成衣外銷，大概要100個貨櫃才能換它一台戰車、一個飛彈，我們是用辛苦錢去賺的，他們有榮華富貴、在享受，它不會忘記這一些，它是霸權霸主。我引這個事情，我要問你、請教你幾個問題，台積電很重要，美國威脅說你台積電不來建廠，我就課100%的關稅，美國主要要掌握40%的產量，控制且限制臺灣台積電以後未來的外銷，它有限制在，如果在美國生產，臺灣這裡的生產你要怎麼來用？被它限制得死死，用的地方也大概那幾個國家在使用，它會去用，會在周邊的運用。所以臺灣的電子業，包括台積電在臺灣何去何從，你有想到嗎？我這點你要稍微研究。你們以前也信誓旦旦說，台積電的研發中心一定不會到美國，人家那是大國啦，不用嘴巴講得很滿啦，你們現在也是要乖乖過去，以前在修理台積電，核心的商業機密、核心的技術都要給他們，你們現在都不敢講，當時對臺灣，我們愛臺灣的保障在哪裡，說什麼研發中心、機密資料絕對不會給它，結果還不是乖乖地奉送給他們。","另外，我還要請教你，統一作答，這個要特別注意，台積電跟英特爾，國發會劉主委說柴油跟汽油不能混合，那我也很奇怪，到底能不能混合？因為這個考慮有托拉斯還是什麼案子在，它也想要製造一個勁敵，養一隻老虎去咬台積電，怕它萬一做大，這你要去考慮一下，不要讓臺灣的企業辛辛苦苦卻白白奉獻給別人。","再來我要跟你談到第三點，IC的成熟製程。現在聯電是世界第四大，它要跟美國什麼格羅方德公司──第五大合併。我看是有可能，你們講不可能，報紙都寫你要去談判，你要好好談判，第一大的已經被拿走了，第二大又被拿走了，臺灣剩下什麼？跟我講、好好地講剩下什麼？你們自己心裡要知道，這臺灣的辛苦，你以前也是小企業，一直做到現在算起來也是一個中大企業，每一步每一步都是臺灣人辛苦，流血、流汗自己打造出來，窮苦的人家，沒有人保護你，只有自力更生，不要把臺灣打造到現在，你們就輕易奉送給別人，沒那麼偉大，可以去忍受就忍受。我就要跟你說，你要記得臺灣剩下什麼，我說臺灣的企業家就是游牧民族，哪裡有草就往哪裡去，很可憐！部長，你們執政8年，提了好幾個政策，我現在唸給你聽，第一個，歡迎臺商回臺投資行動方案，紅紅火火、熱熱鬧鬧，確實很多臺商回來。第二個根留臺灣企業，加速投資行動方案。再來，中小企業加速投資方案，這你們花了幾兆要顧臺灣的根，要根留臺灣，蔡英文當總統的時候就推動南向政策，鼓勵在大陸的臺商往東南亞去走。我今天又看到報紙，我們執政黨的賴主席──現在的賴總統說要脫中入北，我們要深化經貿，與美一起轉型，要以自由經濟的實力立足臺灣，布局全球，形成全球的臺灣，技術與人才相互依賴。講得很好聽、很感動！但是我仍然要強調，種族歧視很厲害，歐美的白種人永遠看不起黃種人，除了日本人稍微不受歧視之外，我要告訴你，這是根深蒂固的觀念。他說中國大陸是鄉巴佬，臺灣是不是鄉巴佬？你要去被糟蹋、被嘲笑，各種文化之間有許多不同之處，我現在懷疑你們是把臺灣這隻羊送入歐美白種人的虎口中！我們自己做經貿，你說臺灣的外交關係能保護多少臺商？我們都心知肚明！主席已經站起來了，我就不再多講，你也不需要回答，現在只是把我心中的感觸告訴你，慎思！慎思！臺灣這塊土地要顧好，現在執政黨東西南北都要，被你們搞得遊牧民族都不知道要把羊趕往哪個方向、哪邊有草可以吃！這些都是你們提出來的，8年時間的變化，東西南北征戰，臺商到現在一無所有，處於水深火熱的掙扎之中，他賺的外匯是要流入臺灣，你們真的要好好愛惜這塊土地。","最後，我要告訴你，中小企業會面臨一個痛苦期，我與台積電幾位高階主管聊過，處於痛苦期就要磨練自己的技術，要磨、要深化，提升自己的價值。如果臺灣沒有留住中小企業就沒有未來，因為臺灣中小企業真的是占了70%的就業人口，所以你不要去管大企業，他們現在錢多多，又具有國際經驗，可以自求生路，現在你應該要照顧的是中小企業。主席站了那麼久，我一談到執政黨，他就站起來……"],["主席：沒有。"],["陳委員超明：但我是真心為臺灣，而且我講的是經驗。"],["主席：花了一輩子的時間。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的提示。"],["陳委員超明：不是提示，感觸很深啦！你靠兩邊或許可以讓我們獲取更大的利益，為什麼一定要靠他？我們有技術、有本領！我們有獨一無二嘛！我相信你自己能感受得到，在自力更生、自立成長的過程中，我們是驕傲的臺灣，但是不要被執政黨出賣了，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，語重心長！請賴委員代理。"],["主席（賴委員瑞隆代）：請蔡易餘召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-8","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","陳超明","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","羅美玲","李坤城","許宇甄","葉元之","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長及財政部首長就「因應美國關稅政策以維持我國農漁畜業及關鍵產\n業競爭力之協助措施」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}