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,"end":2274.592,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":2289.281,"end":2293.384,"text":"那麼這種不確定性、不安定感將會讓軍人感受到待遇的不平等。能夠強化軍艦照顧、減輕生活負擔,藉由週延的福利待遇修法,有助於國軍的優質人力繼續長留久用。"},{"start":2306.732,"end":2306.992,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":2338.521,"end":2348.57,"text":"謝謝翁委員的提案說明現在請退輔會嚴德發主委分別就本次會議專題報告及翁委員所提增訂條文草案進行報告和說明"},{"start":2361.874,"end":2383.006,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進、大家好首先感謝大院貴委員會邀請本會報告輔導會資訊機構如何提升退除役官兵專業職能及媒合就業的具體作法專題以及國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案"},{"start":2384.207,"end":2396.363,"text":"陳鵬哥委員先進對於本會推動職訓輔導的指導以及恢復退役上校領奉人員子女教育補助費的支持謹置最高的敬意跟謝誠。"},{"start":2397.864,"end":2414.613,"text":"本會職訓中心成立的宗旨是為精進退除役官兵實際訓練,輔導就業創業,達到未用而訓、訓用合一的目的,使其退伍後順利轉嫌就業,培訓國家經濟建設新生力量。"},{"start":2415.473,"end":2443.084,"text":"令大院貴委員會審查翁曉玲等18位委員所提輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案。提案內容主要是針對退出役官兵符合資領退休奉、贍養金及生活補助費的人員及子女教育補助費納入輔導條例。本人受命列席報告,對各位委員長期關懷退輔事務,表達感佩之意。"},{"start":2443.844,"end":2454.257,"text":"我想接續,我們分別請本會就學就業處池處長以及退除己副處羅處長向各位委員報告。現在首先請池處長。"},{"start":2464.161,"end":2480.487,"text":"主席、各位委員先進、大家好,現在報告輔導會職訓機構如何提升退出役官兵專業職能及媒合就業之具體作法。一、前言本會職訓中心成立於民國六十四年,為服務全國退出役官兵職業訓練唯一專責機構。"},{"start":2483.008,"end":2507.019,"text":"為協助取等就業需要、習得專業技能、課程結合六大核心戰略產業推動方案等國家的產業發展政策及企業用人趨勢與退除役官兵就業需求,以機械修護等七大職類為核心,必符合人才發展品質管理系統的訓練品質,僅將近年辦理成效及具體作為報告如何。"},{"start":2507.819,"end":2513.404,"text":"二、執行現況及成效一、精進訓練品質履獲TTQS肯定本會職業訓練中心近年來致力於職類多元、教學精進、師資專業提升與教學設備更新推動職能導向課程認證為能客觀有效檢視辦訓品質導入國家級人才發展品質管理系統"},{"start":2531.58,"end":2533.821,"text":"並且在勞動部每兩年評鑑一次TTQS訓練機構獎勵當中﹐連續於108年、110、112年度三度蟬聯金牌獎的殊榮。"},{"start":2544.059,"end":2553.162,"text":"二、近三年自辦訓練及委外訓練的成效。科普一自辦訓練近三年分別培訓111年2138人、112年2033人及113年至5月31日799人。考照率分別為111年97.2%、112年96.1%及113年至5月31日97.8%。"},{"start":2574.108,"end":2576.83,"text":"就業率分別為111年88.2%、112年86.8%、113年人在訓期間尚無統計資料。統計表請參閱。二、委外訓練。近三年分別培訓111年811人。"},{"start":2591.681,"end":2618.359,"text":"一百一十二年九百四十二人及一百一十三年至五月三十一日子四百八十四人考照率分別為一百一十一年百分之九十點四一百一十二年百分之八十五點二及一百一十三年至五月三十一日子百分之七十七點四就業率分別為一百一十一年百分之七十四一百一十二年百分之七十六點一一百一十三年人在訓期間尚無統計資料統計表請參閱"},{"start":2621.141,"end":2628.049,"text":"三、具體作為。一、專業職能培訓措施,包括一、推動ICAP認證,縮短訓用落差。以職能導向規劃課程,藉專家會議及學員訓後就業回饋意見,確保課程規劃符合就業市場所需,縮短訓用落差。"},{"start":2640.55,"end":2669.11,"text":"二、因應產業發展,開辦新興課程參考六大核心戰略產業推動方案規劃班對與課程,辦理情形如下一、因應大數據、人工智慧等新興科技驅動開辦大數據分析及系統設計、自動化與機器人及3D列印創意金屬設計等16項相關課程二、因應無人機全球市場大幅增長,開辦無人機操作班,輔導學員考取證照"},{"start":2670.111,"end":2673.276,"text":"三、因應電動車產業的趨勢辦理電動車輛保修班規劃符合更具市場競爭的技能培訓課程。四、"},{"start":2680.646,"end":2692.518,"text":"因應政府實現再生能源的目標,規劃辦理太陽能光電實務班。三、班對事實轉型,滿足退出役官兵的需求。因應產業趨勢及市場的職缺,針對本會職訓中心現有班對課程,滾動檢討並調整內容,如下。"},{"start":2700.126,"end":2706.313,"text":"一、影音媒體設計班納入無人機操作攝影課程。二、室內設計實務班將室內設計繪圖班及室內的裝修管理班課程合併。"},{"start":2711.286,"end":2728.462,"text":"三、大數據分析及系統設計班考量產業設計人才需求,課程的時數由600小時調整為904小時。四、互動式的網頁及視覺設計班,增加自媒體的相關課程。科普四規劃一訓多鎮強化職場競爭,中興規劃課程將一訓多鎮納入考量。"},{"start":2734.327,"end":2742.09,"text":"並且輔導考取多張相關技術式證照以提升訓後就業競爭力。五、儲備優質師資提升訓練品質。一、每年度依照需求規劃到企業進行蹲點或進修並且掌握產業趨勢以立課程規劃。"},{"start":2752.045,"end":2763.81,"text":"二、因應就業市場的需求,臨聘外聘兼課老師,並以企業界人才為主,其借重業界的師資,熟悉市場所需技能及就業人脈,提升學員就業機會。目前,業界的師資佔65%。"},{"start":2769.092,"end":2775.818,"text":"六、設備與時俱進打造專業場域為使學員專業能力符合產業所需逐年汰換增購機具設備改善訓練場域落實訓用合一強化職場競爭力七、加強評選機制提升訓練品質評選優良委外的辦訓單位重視辦訓的廠商的辦訓品質良宇為首要考量"},{"start":2794.815,"end":2811.793,"text":"另外以取得TTQS訓練品質平和的等地以及是否通過ICAP職能導向課程認證來納入評分標準提升委外單位辦訓及課程規劃品質。二、就業媒合具體作法或乎依掌握學員的需求提供適性輔導"},{"start":2813.234,"end":2821.58,"text":"一、結訓前我們會進行就業需求的調查並且提供專業職業適性評量及職癌顧問的諮詢。二、安排就業輔導的課程。113年至5月31日已經辦理適性評量157件以及職癌諮詢75件。括弧二、拜會優質企業深化廠商交流。一、"},{"start":2838.103,"end":2845.71,"text":"拜會符合職訓專長的企業,邀請提供職缺優先禁用參訓的學員。112年即拜訪269家廠商,113年至5月31日即拜訪116家廠商。"},{"start":2853.217,"end":2866.47,"text":"二、執行中心的學員來自全國各地,利用親訪、電訪及網絡資源等多重管道,開發全國各縣市在地職缺媒合學員多元就業機會。一百一十二年級開發職缺3934筆,一百一十三年開發1284筆。"},{"start":2873.82,"end":2893.174,"text":"三、辦理廠商代表說明會,邀請有合作意願簽署合作備忘錄及盜班徵才的廠商來深化合作機制。一百一十二年計邀請三十一家廠商,一百一十三年規劃在下半年辦理。括弧三,多元媒合徵才,拓展就業管道。一、加強辦理盜班徵才。"},{"start":2895.031,"end":2922.174,"text":"邀請徵才需求符合職訓專長相關職場環境友善退除役官兵的企業辦理到班徵才並且開發多元的職缺以提高媒合成效。一百一十二年計辦理六十三場次提供職缺一千一百二十一筆出媒兩百三十六人次一百一十三年至五月三十一日子已經辦理七場到班徵才活動提供職缺八十三筆出媒四十人次"},{"start":2923.188,"end":2938.435,"text":"二、與國防部合作辦理專技徵才,針對具資通電專長的官兵,邀請相關企業共同參與,並且依專業的技能、就業市場展望,指來的規劃等進行說明,以協助了解職場的現況,擴大就業媒合成效。"},{"start":2941.736,"end":2952.521,"text":"參加的廠商計有16家提供職缺594筆出沒51人次。三、辦理大型現場徵才活動每一年配合班隊結訓舉辦兩場大型現場徵才活動。112年計邀請廠商124家提供職缺4608個出沒159人次。113年規劃在6月14號以及11月15號辦理兩場次。"},{"start":2969.195,"end":2987.389,"text":"科普四、訓後就業追蹤掌握就業動態一、訓後持續辦理就業追蹤六個月不定期提供就業職缺二、針對尚未就業的學員深入了解未就業的原因提供求職指導職缺資訊或心理支持等必要協助"},{"start":2988.413,"end":3011.311,"text":"括弧五,結合各容服處持續就業輔導。一、主動提供學員名冊共同辦理就業輔導。結合轄區的容服處提供在地協助,結訓時提供學員名冊含送各容服處來協助學員就業。二、持續轉介各地容服處辦理就業輔導。學員在訓後如果未能順利就業,名冊將會轉介轄區的容服處持續提供就業輔導。"},{"start":3016.361,"end":3034.816,"text":"六、運用社會資源增加就業機會。一、與各縣市的政府合作辦理就業媒合,參與桃園市政府每個月舉辦就業媒合活動。另外,透過各地區融服處與當地縣市政府合作辦理增財活動,協助宣傳,增加企業合作機會。"},{"start":3036.26,"end":3050.525,"text":"二、鼓勵學員加入勞動部臺灣就業通網站,主動提供職缺資訊給待業學員。三、職訓中心各項就業的輔導措施致重點在拜會優質企業職缺開發與推介就業。112年分別拜訪269家職缺開發3934筆,成功推介378人次。其餘的成效請參閱下表。四、捷運"},{"start":3062.99,"end":3068.213,"text":"本會持續指導職訓中心精進課程規劃﹐改善職訓環境及增設各種新營教學設備﹐並密切與產學訓各界合作﹐掌握經濟發展趨勢、適切調整訓練職類﹐以及建構一所有專業有特色的優質職業訓練機構。"},{"start":3082.121,"end":3088.228,"text":"積極培訓退除役官兵就業競爭力和提高多元就業媒合率,充分發揮職技訓練及輔導就業之功能,彰顯本會服務照顧退除役官兵與榮民榮券之價值。報告完畢,恭請指導。"},{"start":3111.483,"end":3125.863,"text":"主席、各位委員先進、大家好以下僅就國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案一事說明依前言政府自65年起"},{"start":3126.463,"end":3152.867,"text":"同意退休軍公教人員、得比照現職機關人員、支領子女教育補助費以照顧退休人員。然、立法院審查106年中央政府總預算案時通過決議以當時國家財政困難、基於照顧弱勢及對國家有重大犧牲貢獻之精神交由行政院研議"},{"start":3154.207,"end":3178.333,"text":"軍職退休人員資領資格行政院於106年5月24日合定修正退休軍公教子女教育補助至106年8月1日起退休軍公教子女教育補助申領條件退伍軍人現中校階以下領奉人員近年來本會為擴大服務照顧"},{"start":3179.173,"end":3196.306,"text":"推動各項家會榮民券及退除役官兵之優惠措施如調增親韓榮民子女、就學與午餐補助、開辦微型保險、照顧弱勢家庭推動促進穩定就業津貼、調高就學與職訓及就業考試進修"},{"start":3201.834,"end":3205.195,"text":"以表彰國家對榮民眷及退除役官兵之重視。本會自107年1月29日起"},{"start":3220.12,"end":3237.308,"text":"立任主任委員均表達支持恢復上校街領奉人員子女教育補助以六次報請行政院建議恢復為均考量軍公教衡評等情仍維持現行規定辦理"},{"start":3238.035,"end":3266.152,"text":"大院外交及國防委員會113年4月29日臨時提案決議建請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會有關上校階以上領奉人員子女教育補助費之事應積極研議並爭取本會於113年5月6日第七次建請行政院恢復該補助案行政院課證研議中。二、委員提案"},{"start":3267.13,"end":3290.144,"text":"翁曉玲等18人於113年5月15日提案輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案,晉升上校階以上系屬榮譽,對有心服役軍旅之軍人,政府應肯定並保障其退伍後各項福利與生活。"},{"start":3291.108,"end":3306.738,"text":"並妥適照顧及培育其子女避免差別待遇及相對剝奪感使優質人力長留久用穩固志願役人力提高留營成效更有助於激勵國軍士氣維繫部隊安定"},{"start":3309.139,"end":3335.153,"text":"原提案輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文將退除役官兵符合資領、退休奉、善養金及生活補助費之人員及子女教育補助納入輔導條例。三、預算檢討教育部於113年2月實施拉近公私立學校學雜費差距及其配套措施方案"},{"start":3335.937,"end":3365.215,"text":"減免私立大專學雜費三萬五千元拉近公私立大專學雜費的差距並全面落實高中職免學費本案預算檢討以恢復上校街以上領奉人員一名子女就讀私立大學為例全年補助七萬一千六百元扣除教育部補助的三萬五千元後僅增加三萬六千六百元"},{"start":3366.94,"end":3387.057,"text":"推估恢復上校階以上子女教育補助費,原一學年所需經費約8608萬9千元,扣除教育部補助3503萬5千元,就政府整體預算支出而言,僅增加經費5105萬4千元。祥儒下表請參閱。四、延期意見"},{"start":3393.402,"end":3421.192,"text":"一、支持恢復上校街領奉人員子女教育補助照顧榮民袍責及眷屬減輕生活負擔責無旁貸有鑒於上校街以上人員與國軍各部隊中均擔任重要職務基於對取准從公報勳之肯定本會支持恢復上校街以上領奉人員子女教育補助之發給二、"},{"start":3423.071,"end":3445.65,"text":"盡速恢復教育補助彰顯政府德政。中上檢討建議盡快恢復上校街以上領奉人員子女教育補助以彰顯退除役官兵在軍旅服役期間對國家社會的肯定及鼓舞國軍士氣。對大院審議結果本會敬表尊重。報告完畢恭請指導。"},{"start":3454.915,"end":3483.984,"text":"其他機關對於法律草案之說明請參閱書面資料我們現在開始詢答因為之後還要進行法案審查以及相關的討論所以詢答時間稍微縮短本會委員4加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點30分發言登記截止如有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右視詢答情形進行處理現在請弘昇和委員上台質詢"},{"start":3543.342,"end":3543.482,"text":"請言諸位"},{"start":3554.404,"end":3582.058,"text":"黃委員好所以我在你的前一任大鵬主委的時候有曾經質詢他關於我們在退輔會下面其實有很多這個約聘僱的護理人員他其實在計算加班費的時候他因為這個加班費用小時為單位來計算所以很多分鐘的餘數就被當作沒發生過被吃掉了這個狀況那我要先給退輔會"},{"start":3583.319,"end":3587.881,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》案。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":3612.23,"end":3631.767,"text":"來給退輔會一些掌聲因為這個我們一起跟退輔會完成的這件美事是很重要的但今天跟退輔會的質詢裡面我還是要跟退輔會討論其實除了勞動的權益以外其實我們也非常非常在意退輔會下面員工的這些生命歷程尤其是少數女化的部分的照顧的問題"},{"start":3633.268,"end":3655.867,"text":"那大家可以看到這個我們現在先看到的是北榮他的副社的榮光幼兒園以北榮為例的話目前榮光幼兒園目前看起來只有2到6歲的這個幼童71名那主委你有沒有看到0到"},{"start":3658.052,"end":3675.6,"text":"二歲的部分呢?你覺得?零到二歲目前北龍市沒有設置那我想請問目前整個退輔會的榮總體系有多少家有托嬰中心?就是零到二歲的托嬰中心或者職場保姆?零到二歲目前是台中榮總他有設置"},{"start":3676.3,"end":3677.861,"text":"三家的榮總我們的了解因為他們沒有適當的場地"},{"start":3701.252,"end":3701.733,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":3720.711,"end":3747.078,"text":"所以我們現在看到其實按照衛福部社家署的推估其實社托運中心大概每年營運成本大概780萬初始開辦費大概500萬職場保姆大概100萬左右其實這些相關的費用其實都可以來跟衛福部的員工子女托育服務實施計劃來申請補助其實在經費上面其實都是可以cover的那問題只是要不要有照顧"},{"start":3747.858,"end":3750.859,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》案。"},{"start":3771.787,"end":3793.645,"text":"所以至少這些大型榮譽是不是應該優先來做包括剛才托嬰中心或者是職場保姆的這個相關的計畫?三個月的時間我可以接受好不好?好那接下來我是想要跟主委討論剛剛說國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂二十七條之二主委你的看法怎樣?"},{"start":3796.391,"end":3818.604,"text":"這個案子我想從107年停掉之後我們一直都有在爭取那主要基於我們退伍會主要職責照顧我們榮民榮眷還有退除役的官兵他們的服務照顧尤其是上校街他們在部隊非常的辛苦而且退伍下去大概都50出頭"},{"start":3819.645,"end":3820.125,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":3842.892,"end":3843.572,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":3864.586,"end":3877.16,"text":"主委我們當然都希望能夠多照顧這些退出役官兵我覺得我們大家的心願是一致的多照顧然後也包括甚至他的子女該照顧的"},{"start":3879.4,"end":3879.8,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":3899.111,"end":3923.2,"text":"這部分我覺得沒有問題但今天大家會比較有疑慮的事情是說適不適合用一個法律案的方式尤其是沒有院版這個只有在立法院裡面的版本用一個法律案的方式來去處理這個問題有沒有違反相關預算法規包括預算法或者財政紀律法種種的問題這是大家比較有疑慮的地方所以"},{"start":3926.397,"end":3932.991,"text":"我認為目標上面大家都希望多照顧可是方法上這真的是好的方法嗎?這真的是對的方法嗎?"},{"start":3934.745,"end":3956.5,"text":"國務委員我們在報告裡面也提到我們希望能夠盡快到底用哪一種方式我想我們都表達尊重大院最後的決議主委你剛才說了我認為今天在這個角度來說照顧沒有問題可是這個方法恐怕用法律明定的方法這部分是有爭議的"},{"start":3958.305,"end":3984.398,"text":"我想行政院也講得很清楚所以這部分確實是需要退輔會這邊要再考慮一下在這個案子裡面的處理方法我要再強調一次目標都希望多照顧可是照顧的方法照顧的路徑用什麼方式來處理這個問題可能有很多條我們應該選擇最好的那一條而不是選擇最爭議的做法我想主委你應該同意吧主委等一下我們大家可能就要來審這個法案"},{"start":3985.979,"end":3987.34,"text":"接下來請黃仁委員上台諮詢"},{"start":4021.798,"end":4023.479,"text":"退輔會就在就業與就醫的業務哪一個比較重要?"},{"start":4052.048,"end":4080.579,"text":"就業就醫其實我的認知都很重要當然重要當然重要好不好就業跟就醫當然都非常的重要那所以如何申請這個榮民證那根據這個規定取得榮民證的條件是一志願役現役滿十年以上一法退伍這個退除役之軍士官兵"},{"start":4082.034,"end":4104.257,"text":"二、以民國1979年2月9日入營服務志願役金士官以1994年8月9日前入營志願役士官兵經國防證實現役年資符合當時規定。三、因作戰"},{"start":4105.185,"end":4115.534,"text":"或因自病、傷或身心障礙而失去工作能力以退伍除役後"},{"start":4116.545,"end":4129.86,"text":"三、生計艱難需長期醫療或就養。其三產經鑒定合格者。所以這個部分來講退輔會近一年一直積極在推動輔導農民就業根據退輔會的一些報告在職業"},{"start":4136.968,"end":4160.381,"text":"執訓中心辦理的訓練就業率達到九成當然成效不錯所以這個地方加以這個肯定但不少榮民因為退輔會的努力尋找到事業的第二春但是榮民配合退輔會的就業政策後反而在就醫的優惠"},{"start":4161.381,"end":4185.84,"text":"上會有受損根據國軍退除役官兵就醫辦法無子的農民可享有健保錢額補助但是這個有子的農民卻只能獲得部分的健保費的補助所以退輔會這個政策裡面有自相矛盾那我想你在這個地方做一個說明"},{"start":4187.512,"end":4211.88,"text":"關於現行健保部份負擔費用就是退伍的關節有一定的比例上校二十、中、少校五十跟七十、士官跟士兵級是一百那麼我們也了解這些是不太合理我們現在目前由就醫處他們現在正在研擬怎麼修訂這個就醫的辦法"},{"start":4213.58,"end":4239.606,"text":"這個諸位你回答得非常好因為本席認為榮民的身份取得是因為他們對國家的奉獻那與他們有沒有工作無關照顧榮民本來就是退輔會的一個基本的工作那如果需要由此無止區分他們的就醫又會反而並向以懲罰願意將自身能力再一次的奉獻到社會的榮民"},{"start":4240.746,"end":4241.606,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":4263.536,"end":4286.43,"text":"臺北隆重所所屬的義理鳳林及台東醫院因為處於偏鄉及地震颱風後等天然災害在偏鄉醫療的醫療匱乏且沒有大型的醫學中心導致重症患者必須到北宋或南宋所以這個部分我們應該要考量"},{"start":4289.568,"end":4310.198,"text":"本席提醒諸委在東部地區的醫療有多麼缺乏在全台公司立醫學中心有26家北部有15家中部有5家南部有5家東部有一家退輔會在全台有4家的農民"},{"start":4310.998,"end":4312.638,"text":"五家的榮民醫院全都是分院。"},{"start":4335.123,"end":4344.932,"text":"本席希望在退輔會能夠成為花東醫療升級的領頭羊規劃在花東地區能夠設立總院。你認為呢?"},{"start":4353.942,"end":4379.293,"text":"是委員好我是臺北榮民總院李偉強副院長事實上我們對這個事情非常的關心跟委員報告按照衛福部的規劃大概每100萬人口可以有一家的醫學中心因為支持一個醫學中心不容易像臺北榮總、中榮、高榮都在動輒一千床以上的這樣子一個醫院的規模才足以達到醫學中心那是當然跟當地人口有關係現在我們花東的三院當中以急性病床來看"},{"start":4379.833,"end":4381.434,"text":"一般級的重度級急救責任院並採用區域聯防的方法跟其他周邊的大型醫學中心做一個聯合"},{"start":4405.703,"end":4426.933,"text":"這個當然沒有錯在你們制定的人口的人數的一個規定規範之外可是現在我們應該要因地制宜請問一下屏東有沒有超過一百萬沒有吧屏東人口應該目前沒有到一百萬沒有吧對不對有沒有一百萬沒有沒有吧所以"},{"start":4427.711,"end":4429.211,"text":"因為我們已經喊了十幾年了好不好以上謝謝"},{"start":4462.354,"end":4462.974,"text":"沈薄洋委員"},{"start":4488.571,"end":4509.208,"text":"那我就先針對今天幾個題目來做詢問那我前面是先想問就是說這個是比較簡單的一個問題就是說在這個全民防衛之下有這個所謂的動員準備綱領那這個裡面有一個小部分跟退輔會有關所以想問一下退輔會現在的進度我把它秀一下是在這裡"},{"start":4510.069,"end":4522.002,"text":"就是說這邊有提到就是說這個暫時致受傷或身心障礙還有退役軍人的安置就是在倒數第二行有這個highlight這一段所以第一個想問說目前這方面的進度如何"},{"start":4522.881,"end":4547.342,"text":"各位委員報告,我們在5月底之前就已經完成了114年委員所這裡面所刊出來的人力動員準備方案,我們負責的這部分,退輔會負責的這部分,包含動員準備跟動員實施。那我們不管是對退除役的人員的安置,或者是戰傷,所謂的醫療,這些醫療應該是納入衛福部,那其他的就在內政部主持。"},{"start":4549.343,"end":4564.371,"text":"有提到輔導就學就業就醫就養其實跟今天這個主題有點關係所以這個一般照顧等功能任務現在也都還在時程上對不對對好那這個沒有問題那接下來我們就問這個跟今天這個比較有關的因為就剛好牽涉到今天這個題目"},{"start":4565.872,"end":4590.535,"text":"當然在行政院人事行政總署的報告書當時就有提到他們是用關接的身份發給忠孝一下我覺得在場的各位都已經非常的熟悉了這一個目前我們看到這一次的退輔會的報告有提到說大概需要八千萬但教育部這邊可以做個三千萬所以大概是支出五千萬我想確定一下這個部分是正確的嗎就預算支出的部分是正確的"},{"start":4592.216,"end":4610.025,"text":"現在的問題就在於說我覺得以我的立場來講我們對於要對於做這些子女相關就學的一些補助說真的這個我們當然本來都是樂見其成因為對這個退輔會來講本來就是應該多多照顧榮民但是預算這件事情畢竟是行政議題"},{"start":4611.025,"end":4634.366,"text":"就是說我們今天要在這邊增加預算那其他的地方到底要不要等同增加預算如果別人就說那我們也一樣增加類似的預算的時候那整個行政院的這一個預算會提高所以這當然是要考量的事情所以這邊我們還是一樣我覺得看到報告裡面還是要尊重這一個主計還是要尊重整個行政院的看法但對於個別的這一個事件我們當然本來是競表同意但現在問題就出在這裡就是說"},{"start":4636.528,"end":4656.058,"text":"因為我們今天是討論一個二十七條之四嘛他是一個法律案但因為這個法律案直接就等於是增加了預算那這跟我們之前在爭議的花東三法其實是一模一樣的意思嘛就是花東三法那時候就直接說我可能針對這一條鐵路我要花幾億那行政院本來就有提出預算的權利"},{"start":4656.718,"end":4682.956,"text":"所以對於行政院對於退輔會這邊認為預算要多少要怎麼增列我們這邊當然就是如果是這邊提出來我們當然是予以支持但如果是立法院自己去提一個案子增加預算那就已經在侵害了行政院提出預算的權利那這樣行政院可以廢掉算了嗎我們只要留著立法院就好了我們就說今天我們認為哪裡要再補助兩千萬這邊要再補助三千萬那這樣這個國家的財政就不用玩了"},{"start":4683.456,"end":4690.441,"text":"所以在這邊我想確認一下就是在於說目前院裡面這邊的溝通對於這個預算有什麼樣的想法?"},{"start":4713.876,"end":4717.837,"text":"最後一個就是上次剛好在這個問的時候有提到這個黃埔的事情就是去中國的事情"},{"start":4732.962,"end":4752.354,"text":"我看到新聞有提到就是說第一個他們去這邊參加黃埔可以去有中國的門號安裝微信的APP這其實會有金流的問題這有微信支付的問題然後再來甚至可能要辦居住證所以就這一點而言目前退輔會的掌握是什麼那時候因為之前有提到"},{"start":4752.754,"end":4753.254,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":4769.463,"end":4786.609,"text":"報告委員我們針對要賦入的不管是將校我們都會跟他做一些說明尤其是有居住證的你的個資可能外洩因為你要登記所以這些都有個人的一些風險所以特別第一年就是要注意到自己的人身安全"},{"start":4787.549,"end":4794.872,"text":"因為這是一個新的方法就是說因為居住證這個以後它如果比如說它的編號的方式跟中國的是身份證是一樣的它其實就是在做內國法化這件事情它就要把台灣當成中國的一部分這對我們來講是非常嚴重的"},{"start":4814.64,"end":4834.751,"text":"所以今天去的人到底有哪些人有居住證這個在早期中國想做第一次的時候本來陸委會有說是不是要採登記但是因為後來沒有繼續做但所以在這邊退輔會到對這件事情的掌握如何有多少人拿到居住證這可能之後我會詢問先講這一點那第二點就是呢因為這一個前黃富新主委這個紀琳蓮這個"},{"start":4836.952,"end":4857.885,"text":"這是聯合報嗎?好像少了一個字應該是寄靈聯因為兩岸條例九之三這個部分是少將以上的人員去那邊不能做有妨礙國家尊嚴的行為那這邊也是可能要請這個退輔會要對這個相關的宣導因為畢竟什麼叫做妨礙尊嚴的行為雖然第二項有規定但它有一個其他類似的行為這聽起來很寬廣"},{"start":4858.946,"end":4860.067,"text":"三、王定宇召委上台質詢"},{"start":4896.527,"end":4899.276,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩主委請主委"},{"start":4907.222,"end":4925.697,"text":"總委好主委長你一輩子的軍人入軍將領我們有一首軍紀歌開口第一句叫做國家有鋼長嘛我不會叫你在那邊唱給我聽啦那國家有鋼長的意思是指國家是有法律跟秩序的一旦破壞這個法律跟秩序"},{"start":4926.718,"end":4951.663,"text":"以為得利最後會受害所以我們都希望福國利民我們都希望我們照顧的各類族群所有人民都可以多一點好處多一點福利大家都樂見但是必須建立在憲政架構下的制度跟法律還有財政紀律否則用違法違憲的方式去進行丟肉桶的肉桶政治"},{"start":4952.983,"end":4979.431,"text":"獨樹果實,最後受害的是全體人民所以本席今天比較嚴肅的跟主委探討這一點我們都希望退伍袍者,我也樂見退伍袍者多一點照顧我也樂見大家的孩子多一點照顧但是必須建立在這個前提下如果這個前提沒有確定就像我們在部隊唱的軍紀歌國家有鋼長,軍隊有紀律這兩個沒有了,軍隊就不是軍隊國家就不是國家第一個"},{"start":4980.638,"end":5004.239,"text":"什麼是憲法架構下的法律制度跟財政紀律根據我們財政紀律法第五條如果立法委員提法律案要增加政府稅出或減少稅入先具體指明彌補資金來源這個指明還不是指立委說哪裡有錢就可以用哪裡的錢我們看下一條第七條財政紀律法"},{"start":5005.24,"end":5017.718,"text":"修正法律或者像地方在定制法規你不可以增訂固定經費額度或比率保障比如說嚴德發退休之後呢必須佔我們退輔基金裡面10%那你就發了嘛"},{"start":5019.983,"end":5043.613,"text":"不行做這種提案也就是說修正法律不是預算案喔如果有這樣的情形的話其實是不可以的第三個法律預算法第91條立委如果提法律案有增加稅數或減少稅入者要做什麼動作我們要徵詢行政院的意見這也就是為什麼常常在立法院各委員會我們不分藍綠"},{"start":5045.013,"end":5070.429,"text":"資深的委員我們都會提臨時提案啊或者建請案我為什麼不直接提拔變法律叫你把錢拿出來因為那不行我們提臨提後面都會寫請主管機關去研議嘛也就是必須跟行政院徵詢意見所以綜合預算法綜合財政紀錄法立法委員縱使不是提預算案是提修法的法律案"},{"start":5071.309,"end":5075.721,"text":"我不可以增加預算支出如果要增加預算支出要跟行政院"},{"start":5076.92,"end":5077.36,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":5104.781,"end":5112.307,"text":"就這個案子立法部門不管哪個黨派有跟行政院進行協調徵詢意見嗎?有還是沒有?就你了解"},{"start":5119.986,"end":5131.774,"text":"行政院主要考量到橫屏性這一塊我們一直跟行政院在做協調未來我想還是按照法定的程序要完成這個"},{"start":5143.462,"end":5146.284,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言"},{"start":5172.97,"end":5198.585,"text":"大法官釋字第391號解釋文等同法律本文在這個解釋文就告訴你一件事情立法院不得在預算案之外以委員提案方式增加支出之提議然後呢他裡面還特別想這個意思告訴你說縱使預算案不能提增加之提議預算案之外法律案啦相關案也不可以"},{"start":5199.946,"end":5208.055,"text":"大法官釋憲我們憲法五院的機關國家有綱長我們可以逾越的嗎法律這麼說憲法這麼說大法官釋憲這麼說那我們該怎麼做"},{"start":5214.876,"end":5237.585,"text":"綜合剛才講起來就是立法委員不能提預算增加支出是提議但是如果要這種修法律案做預算增加支出要跟行政機關大家來談這就是我們常常在立法院溝通協調的過程如果立法院認為至愛難行那這樣的提案就會有違憲違法之餘法律條文的基礎在這裡那這個"},{"start":5241.874,"end":5265.504,"text":"我曾經在4月29號提了個臨時提案我也謝謝馬文君、趙偉那時候我們都一起簽署我剛才講我們樂見對退伍的袍澤甚至於他的子女多一些照顧那時候參與連署大家可以看到我們委員會部分黨派都連署另外我上面寫的是這個寫的理由最後是建請退輔會"},{"start":5266.963,"end":5293.509,"text":"去進行相關的研議我為什麼不把它變法律案變法律案現在這credit變我的這成績變我的因為不可以除非跟行政院溝通好所以看是院提立法委員提案或者是立法院行政院的院版這才是過去幾十年來我們中華民國憲政體制下運作的預算跟立法委員職權行事法以及憲政的根據可是現在我們很遺憾"},{"start":5294.81,"end":5314.705,"text":"我們要照顧人方法要對用違憲違法的方式還進行政治操作今天每個委員會都在弄這個我我那個顏主委你當部長國防部長的時候我們合作進行軍改當時軍人年改現役軍人滿意度98%以上甚至還增加"},{"start":5316.421,"end":5336.901,"text":"當時的過程就是按著這個法律來進行的可是如果把特定族群或特定行業的福祉拿來進行政治操作或者製造撕裂對立受害的將是我們退伍的跑者受害的是我們的納稅人得利的是政客"},{"start":5338.004,"end":5350.654,"text":"不可以這樣做所以本席建議我們委員會待會討論這個法律案我們可以好好討論甚至保留但是不是回到法定的程序該跟行政部門行政院好好協商我們好好來談"},{"start":5352.233,"end":5376.535,"text":"或者是因為軍人跟其他的行業確實不一樣我們24小時待命我們又不是做到65歲才能退我們升不上去停留年限到上校42歲、41歲他就退了所以他有他的特殊性就他的特殊性跟行政部門好好談可是今天我們看到的是連動一大堆肉桶法案全部都用立法權逼行政權把錢拿出來違法違憲"},{"start":5378.897,"end":5390.238,"text":"這不叫照顧這叫操弄這違法違憲最後得到的苦果是相關的族群納稅人要承受所以我很敬重嚴主委我都叫你嚴部長"},{"start":5391.584,"end":5408.933,"text":"我們樂見我們當然希望照顧但是請守著合法合憲的方式這才叫國家有鋼長我不知道主委有什麼看法我給你因為我超過了一點時間10秒鐘你簡單回答一下我想我們在報告裡面也提到了第一個我們就希望能夠盡快恢復"},{"start":5409.953,"end":5410.073,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":5437.14,"end":5437.5,"text":"羅美玲委員"},{"start":5461.263,"end":5488.04,"text":"主委好主委我要延續的是王定宇委員剛剛的這個議題那本期認為呢針對這次補助上校街的這個以上領風人員子女教育費這件事情我想在場所有的不管朝野的委員其實都會大力的支持所以王定宇委員才會在4月29號的時候提出一個臨時建議就是建請就在行政院整體預算支出不增加的情況之下呢建請我們退輔會呢"},{"start":5490.061,"end":5509.26,"text":"有關這上校節以上領奉人員子女教育費補助的事情應該積極來爭取然後促進退伍跑者的這個權益而且那天其實有十位的立法委員不分朝野其實都連署支持那接著翁曉玲委員也提出了一個法律案就是直接修法了"},{"start":5509.56,"end":5516.003,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案案。．三、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":5539.552,"end":5567.592,"text":"兩位委員都有提出了相關關心我們上校階以上這個李鳳子女子女教育費的這個用的這個方式是不一樣一個就是用臨時提案建議的方式建請的方式其實這整個主導權還是回到我們行政單位回到我們的輔導會可是直接修法直接要我們的退輔會你就是要來增加在法律案來講好像"},{"start":5568.493,"end":5583.943,"text":"要用法律來增加預算這個真的就像王地宇委員所講的這憲法上其實是違憲的那怎麼違憲其實剛剛王地宇委員也說得非常的清楚如果說我們來看這個大法官391號我們針對這憲法63條63條他是認為說立法院呢"},{"start":5593.427,"end":5606.401,"text":"他我們是有這個審議預算案的權利可是呢我們還是要受到憲法第七十條立法院對行政院所提預算不得為增加支出之提議所以這個部分我們還是要守著這是憲法規定"},{"start":5610.785,"end":5632.488,"text":"所以說我是覺得說這個部分今天要來審我也覺得非常的疑惑我也跟很多的委員都一樣我們可以用法律案來增加預算嗎這是一個很大的這個爭議我們都支持我們都支持這個上校接以上他們的子女能夠回復到這個補助的部分可是要用什麼樣的方法來補助"},{"start":5634.309,"end":5652.173,"text":"這個違不違憲、合不合法、適不適法我想這個非常的重要那當然剛剛主委您的回覆您的對這個王定宇委員的回覆其實讓我們還是沒有聽到一個真正的答案你到底要用怎麼樣的方式來做處理那今天待會馬上就要審這一條了那我們就要讓他這樣子過了嗎可是如果這樣過的話其實他實際上是違憲的"},{"start":5657.774,"end":5658.455,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":5674.295,"end":5693.248,"text":"草案三讀通過也是要經過總統公佈才有效力。那麼我們輔導會會按照輔導條例27條之二還有第33條第二項的規定我們會要訂定一個辦法但是訂出來之後還是要送行政院還是要送行政院然後行政院核定之後"},{"start":5694.088,"end":5694.788,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":5717.189,"end":5730.02,"text":"主委,我們應該還是要有個態度,好的方法我們來處理對的事情,我想這一點非常的重要。再來的話我要提到的就是有關於榮民之家。"},{"start":5732.458,"end":5748.577,"text":"我有看到就是我們榮民之家的資源是不是可以有進一步有效的這個來做利用那像我們的第一代的榮民其實是逐漸的這個凋零了那當然榮民之家的佔床率是越來越低"},{"start":5748.917,"end":5765.526,"text":"我們有看到到去年的這個七月份為止其實我們的這樣戰場率其實都是低於80%其實這麼多年以來就是因為剛才我所提到就是第一代榮民逐漸的這個凋零所以榮民之家是不斷的在做轉型好像早期的話我們都是公費就養"},{"start":5766.607,"end":5766.967,"text":"二十五歲以上的民眾申請自費入住。"},{"start":5783.075,"end":5783.435,"text":"一百零六年我們那個時候"},{"start":5810.643,"end":5828.144,"text":"總體的床位是8283床,那站床數是6700,就站床率大概是81,那個時候是81,超過80了。那中間當109年因為新冠疫情的關係,有些管制的措施,所以他會往下降往下滑。"},{"start":5829.525,"end":5852.778,"text":"一百一十三年到今年我們的整個的床位是八千八就床位數增加是床位增加可是增加了所以他站床的還是就沒有超過八十七十八是這個這個原因呢因為我知道說像我們呃榮民之家說實在的我們那個呃我有看到之前的這價格的話其實比市面上我們大概就是會比市面少個一半"},{"start":5853.618,"end":5855.759,"text":"一般民眾已經從5%提到17%現在大概有1000多床1500多床"},{"start":5881.277,"end":5882.018,"text":"現在請林楚英委員上台諮詢"},{"start":5910.231,"end":5913.994,"text":"主席,有請原主委。主委,您投身軍旅大概多少年了?快50年了。我想這個帶兵最重要的"},{"start":5931.178,"end":5959.952,"text":"有許多的守則啦當然效忠國家啦然後盡好自己的義務之外我想如何帶兵能夠帶的行除了帶兵要帶心之外我想現有的法令跟法規這個一定是放在前面因為不論我們在之前我們在跟國防部啦或相關部會討論相關的法規的時候都是希望能夠幫軍人來爭取他應有的權利跟保障但是呢賞罰分明一直也都是的包括之前我有講到有關於退將這個要追回有關於"},{"start":5960.832,"end":5961.233,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":5977.316,"end":6004.773,"text":"的這些軍官將領們他們的子女的這個就學的這個費用其實就有多一筆預算了所以我認為我再次的鼓勵您但是我自己提到剛剛也很多委員都已經講了就這樣吧剛剛提案的這個委員呢翁曉玲委員他是用憲法增修條文第十條第九項他說國家應該尊重軍人對社會之貢獻及其退役後之就學就業就醫就養"},{"start":6006.894,"end":6030.829,"text":"好我特別把對其退役後對其這兩個意思翻成中文的白話文應該就是對他個人是吧所以我們今天討論的是他的子女我覺得如果說要這樣子無限去擴大或擴張的話我認為今天在這邊討論這些法律案那麼基本上他的出發點就是錯誤的如果說是一個錯誤的出發點的善意"},{"start":6031.806,"end":6053.814,"text":"那會變成是惡意我相信這個您一定知道同樣的憲法第七十條立法院對於行政院所提出來的預算是不可以增加支出只能做相關的意見之建議前面從王定宇委員從沈伯洋委員再到羅美玲委員我們都一致認同必須要給"},{"start":6055.114,"end":6066.119,"text":"退役的將領他們必要的保障以及他們應該應有的福利但是就像我拿出來的憲法第10條跟現在第70條第10條講的是給予保障"},{"start":6070.492,"end":6096.358,"text":"保障是給他應該要有的權益但是是不是要用違反第七十條的方式去增加支出尤其現在您雖然身為退輔會的主委我相信今天的整體的國會詢答一定有非常多退輔的弟兄們在看著但是守法尤其是遵守國家最高的法律的憲法的這個部分您過去軍旅五十年"},{"start":6097.577,"end":6126.668,"text":"那麼現在我把這兩個法規拿出來所以我們等一下要修這個法規的時候這個法到底該不該修或者是說其實請您回去跟行政院在整體的預算上面做一個盤整跟爭取這兩個方式您選擇哪一個報告委員當然基本上大前提是不能違憲憲法是國家根本大法是最上游的這一定要在符合憲法的精神之下我們來推動這個工作"},{"start":6128.112,"end":6149.327,"text":"所以對您來講以您身為退輔會的主委跟我們今天在場所有國防朝野的立委想法都是一樣的我們希望為退休的將領在他的子女或者是他的家眷各方面我們給予保障但是一切就是以不違法合法為原則否則這樣爭取來的"},{"start":6151.55,"end":6168.057,"text":"保障不是真的保障,爭取來的也不是真正榮譽該給的,尤其是對於這些一向是軍人榮譽為第一,我認為這個方法絕對不是正確的,但是有一些部分可以不用修法,那麼現在是我等一下來關心的,來下一張。"},{"start":6169.468,"end":6181.826,"text":"本席一直非常關心我們榮家的一些相關的問題我之前提到的是有關於我們榮家相關的一些費用的部分退還的部分來我來考一下我們這個"},{"start":6183.646,"end":6201.665,"text":"主委容加A容加B容加C戰床723戰床數393還有戰床數只有147的你知道他們各自的保險金額是多少嗎基本上我先給主委主委大概知道我們公共意外的保險主要是避免第三責任險的這個部分能夠給予這些"},{"start":6204.207,"end":6204.267,"text":"二、審查報告"},{"start":6216.087,"end":6216.787,"text":"目前我們是依照老服機構設立的標準來保險我們是101人以上"},{"start":6234.957,"end":6237.939,"text":"長復法規定是100人以下、101人以上、200人以上有三個級距。目前我們保險金明關係就是7400萬總保險金額。目前16所農家有8所農家已經達到7400萬。後續我們參考長照法的規定。"},{"start":6256.052,"end":6266.855,"text":"我前面為什麼先講這個是因為要修法然後甚至於違法才能做到的事情呢你們很努力的在爭取但是這個不用修法你們好好的就延續比較好的法規來做的你們趕快改剛剛的A是桃園的容家他其實呢他的保險金額只有540但是他站床是627中章的容家他393但是他的保險金額8400"},{"start":6283.34,"end":6287.441,"text":"人比較多但是保險金額比較低就是因為你剛剛講的用的是老服的機構的相關的法規但是我們長照機構其實是有分層來處理所以我希望你們可以不用修法的趕快就換一個比較好的法規好不好"},{"start":6300.385,"end":6302.947,"text":"就用我們長靠肌肉的服務法分作100人、200人、201人因為這些保障不只是保障住進去的這些榮眷、榮民朋友又或者是一般的民眾好嗎?所以我希望你們如何來全面的檢視這些法令然後以從優的法規來處理就好了我相信這個是你們相關的主管機關就可以做得到的"},{"start":6324.38,"end":6324.66,"text":"主委請主委"},{"start":6355.794,"end":6355.981,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":6359.97,"end":6385.271,"text":"陳委員好主委好 主委早所以我們這個退輔會有三大農場三大高山農場是哪三大高山農場三大農場我們有武陵然後清境跟福壽山都非常有名那也都是觀光的重要的據點那可惜我覺得我們嘉義的分廠的部分它的觀光問題就比較可惜了"},{"start":6387.134,"end":6397.264,"text":"張化農場在嘉義分場在大埔鄉曾文水庫旁邊,坐落在觀光索西拉雅國家風景區的範圍內,在選區大埔鄉藍色公路的重要觀光景點。"},{"start":6406.053,"end":6433.201,"text":"其實我覺得非常可惜因為其實我們剛才提到的那三個高山農場那當然大家都會忽略到嘉義其實有一個這麼優美的地方那也是由退輔會來去經營的我是希望說我們嘉義的分廠能夠受到更大的注目那有一天可以讓退輔會的三大高山農場來增加多一個絕景就四大農場那這樣當然是我們作為觀光的一個重要的據點可是我們知道嘉義的分廠有委外經營過"},{"start":6434.161,"end":6459.536,"text":"那過去這一二十年那又經歷過風災還有疫情等等因素那逐漸的沒落甚至有成為蚊子管你看這一個這一個好POWER POINT那說鄭文水顧風景區荒廢養蚊子我想請教主委針對這個招商活化的部分未來觀光規劃的部分是不是可以簡單的說明一下如果主委對這個議題不守也可以請其他的官員來去回應"},{"start":6461.437,"end":6481.278,"text":"謝謝委員關心,我們嘉義農場的規劃,未來還是以促餐的方式來吸引民間投資,那未來就是多元化模式經營,朝向觀光還有農業,一起來其路並進,吸引投資者的參與來經營,我們預計是在今年的八月會上網公告。"},{"start":6482.219,"end":6511.136,"text":"所以就之後不會是由退輔會直接經營?促餐嗎?是,我們事業處處長跟你說的委員好,我是事業處處長目前為止我們已經有許多家廠商有意願來用促餐的方式來進行有幾家?大概幾家?目前為止有六家有六家廠對,那我們也會結合就是您剛剛提的藍色公路的計畫來做我們也跟嘉義縣的政府跟西太亞的風管處來合作,強力合作現在這個機制已經建立起來了"},{"start":6511.476,"end":6511.716,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":6530.566,"end":6531.667,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言"},{"start":6552.108,"end":6552.508,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":6572.114,"end":6575.056,"text":"目前有七所農家有設置的專區有五百多床"},{"start":6600.276,"end":6600.916,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":6618.82,"end":6646.739,"text":"他有提到說在現階段的計劃其實有延宕的狀態那在巴德、雲林、高雄、馬蘭這等等四所農家裡面有針對工程設計還有包包導致落後而且甚至是因應這個物價提高還要增加經費四千多萬元那我想請教一下針對剛才我說了是田地部提出來的問題退輔會有哪些檢討的措施那並且他的各項工程的進度怎麼樣再說一下"},{"start":6648.28,"end":6664.289,"text":"餵好,我是救援養護處長周英國目前我們整個專案裡面是六所農家有這個工程那111年彰化農家他已經整建完成了還有五所農家他都已經完成發包統包的工程目前按進度來做我們每個禮拜"},{"start":6665.61,"end":6684.413,"text":"對於開設工程檢討會來掌握這個工程的進度那後續大概是在114年年底大概都預化可以竣工只有部分的農家像板橋農家當初他發報的時候延後了大概六個月可能在115年年初可以完成這個以上報告"},{"start":6685.43,"end":6700.048,"text":"對我剛才在提到齁這因應這個物價還有這些這些基本的這些原料的費用都會因應的提高啦所以說拜託齁在這個規劃的時候齁發包的時候這可以完整的去做因為我們剛才提到"},{"start":6700.989,"end":6724.869,"text":"總共這個傳位是佔全國失職傳位的六成以上所以齁這一個洞見觀瞻啦所以只要是有延宕那就等於是你找了這個黃金的時間點那進出的傳位或者是這些要撫養的這些家人他的負擔就這些時間點就沒有辦法來去做嘛那所以我還是希望可以加快這些速度有效的去改善好不好這可以去承諾來去做嗎可以謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6732.062,"end":6733.883,"text":"主席好,有請主委。請主委。委員好。"},{"start":6758.113,"end":6786.392,"text":"主委好因為這是你第二次擔任會的主委對你來講應該是蠻熟悉的工作然後上任到現在已經大概三週的時間了北京市想要提醒你一下就是說你現在上去看各地榮家和榮福處的網頁看的時候還是會發現上面是我們前任主委大鵬水筆的專欄還在上面所以我希望雖然大鵬主委是也很照顧我們農民但是也受到大家敬重雖然是提醒一下主委說記得要去更新網頁"},{"start":6788.714,"end":6809.766,"text":"謝謝委員接下來我們進入正題退伍會的任務就是照顧退除役官兵但是有些官兵退除役之後還是在壯年的時期所以現在的時候輔導會的執訓中心功能就是非常重要了那想請問一下輔導會執訓中心本身就是一個專門屬於榮民的人力銀行所以你應該認同這個說法吧對認同"},{"start":6812.861,"end":6833.194,"text":"好那我們現在如果是說知道現在要找工作的話其實有很多管道嘛好像一般找工作的時候像手機拿起來可能數字上面的求職網站可能是104啊111啊518591的人力銀行或是APP其實都可以很快的瀏覽到各種工作那本席想要建議主委就是輔導會其實可以考慮跟這些求職網站的人力銀行合作在網頁"},{"start":6837.597,"end":6837.637,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":6867.517,"end":6873.983,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":6892.641,"end":6919.333,"text":"當然我們也依據花東地區之類的需求跟民間合作委辦在那邊做質詢能夠滿足他們在不需要跑到西部或是跑到北部這個就是我下一個問題就是說我先想要請問一下主委因為你當過國防部長所以你很清楚原住民是報考國軍志願役最主要的族群所以那主要的原住民的最多的城市是哪幾個城市呢"},{"start":6922.939,"end":6924.902,"text":"花蓮和台東是台灣原住民人口比例最高的地方,花蓮有三成,台東縣三成其人口幾乎都是原住民。"},{"start":6937.739,"end":6937.859,"text":"二、審查報告"},{"start":6959.967,"end":6966.152,"text":"幾乎都是沒有的所以我覺得要照顧到花東地區的退除役官兵是不是花東地區那邊也沒有第二專長的職業訓練是不是會很不公平呢而且現在最近的天災的情況下然後花東地區這些退除役官兵其實在時間上的花費還有金錢上的成本其實比西部高出很多"},{"start":6981.624,"end":6982.085,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":6999.349,"end":7003.39,"text":"委員好我是就學就業處處長跟委員報告其實我們在花東地區剛有講過我們在花東地區其實在過去三年我們有開班開了六個班訓兒也有190個人那事實上我們還有個手段就是在地參訓在地就業我想我們不用走車勞頓跑到我這個執訓中心或到西岸來受訓我們過去這個三年也培訓了五百個人次用執訓補助的管道"},{"start":7028.158,"end":7028.478,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言"},{"start":7048.726,"end":7048.786,"text":"臺北榮總副院長"},{"start":7078.626,"end":7081.169,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":7084.11,"end":7103.044,"text":"根據本席瞭解臺北榮總在花蓮有一個育理分院嘛他是在我們花蓮的南區然後地處是非常的偏鄉所以是花蓮南區其實是很規模的精神科的教學醫院還有一般綜合的地區的醫院但是因為那個地方人才招募的困難所以因為花東地區長期的交通不方便還有醫療人員的薪水不夠所以相對的很多醫生不願意到那個地方去毫無熱情所以造成花東偏鄉人力的缺乏"},{"start":7113.852,"end":7117.356,"text":"但是我最近接受了陳情就是有一個御理分院的復健科隸屬外科部然後原本復健科的醫師已經在112年年底離職了113年1月有一個到御理分院支援的蘇澳榮民復健科醫師也在明天"},{"start":7130.649,"end":7130.949,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":7149.244,"end":7149.624,"text":"一般的外科醫師"},{"start":7166.323,"end":7166.503,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":7190.674,"end":7191.456,"text":"這些的話如果有改善的話應該可以造福更多花蓮南區的榮民榮眷的一般他們的健康"},{"start":7199.417,"end":7200.517,"text":"所以6月14日之後是還有一個復健科醫師會過去支援對不對?"},{"start":7229.388,"end":7229.729,"text":"馬文君委員"},{"start":7259.966,"end":7261.767,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請嚴主委主委早,就今天我們特別針對國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二國軍上校接領奉人員恢復子女教育補助費的部分我想今天有很多委員在關切"},{"start":7288.368,"end":7301.974,"text":"那動不動就拿憲法跟增加預算來洋洋灑灑的說一堆然後又說支持然後又拿這個來壓我想這個真是嚴重了那年金改革的時候沒有違憲嗎?追溯既往對以前承諾的沒有違憲嗎?"},{"start":7308.717,"end":7335.388,"text":"今天負責我們現役軍人的國防部負責退役軍人的退輔會還有所有朝野的立法委員都支持都贊成就行政院不贊成那立法院應該怎麼樣今天所有的民意還包括主責單位都認為應該要好好的照顧軍人行政單位就是不願意那立法委員可以怎麼樣"},{"start":7336.408,"end":7341.137,"text":"行政院如果不尊重民意的話那立法委員能幹嘛動不動拿憲法跟那個預算來講然後又說支持那到底他們要做什麼"},{"start":7349.537,"end":7369.521,"text":"有什麼不能過的嗎?年金改革這麼嚴重的事說過就過我們今天看人事行政局說明反對的原因他是因為說在106年通案決議照顧弱勢的精神兼顧國家整體資源之合理性分配所謂的橫貧原則是真的橫貧嗎?所有的軍人我相信"},{"start":7375.362,"end":7398.88,"text":"主委也是過去榮民我們希望他是一個榮譽的標誌當你們拋家棄子在為國家守護的時候你們能夠做的因為有很多到商校的階段因為我先講人事行政局說明反對的這個原因這根本就是倒贏為果胡說八道"},{"start":7400.101,"end":7409.633,"text":"因為像退輔會所述的政府在65年的時候就已經同意退休的軍公教比較限職機關人員支領子女教育補助費他不是現在突然要增加他以前就有"},{"start":7416.201,"end":7417.163,"text":"是在106年當時執政黨在強推年金改革的時候人數優勢強勢表決本來要全數刪除國軍領奉人員子女的教育補助費因為很多包括"},{"start":7431.664,"end":7432.525,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":7461.321,"end":7486.11,"text":"軍人因為服役的特性你說公教人員或其他的機關人員也要比照他們可以做到65歲軍人你在服役的時候因為他的服役特性國家要維持部隊輕壯的人力所以要求他們要提早退伍在中年要轉職可是在很多的子女其實他都還是在就學的階段"},{"start":7487.492,"end":7504.564,"text":"因為要晚婚啊之前的作息或者其實常常會影響到他們可能結婚的意願或者他的很多條件的限制所以就這個部分我們特別提出來今天他只是給法源"},{"start":7506.364,"end":7529.491,"text":"這今天是給法院哪裡是增加預算大家如果還記得的話三年前為了要跟國外做一些什麼退伍軍人的交流編了兩個人兩個人喔他可以出國回去做交流的費用還有辦公費還有薪水這兩個人領了我們國家多少預算1727萬"},{"start":7533.8,"end":7549.299,"text":"這是應該的嗎?人家在軍中付出那麼久,我們在斤斤計較,你今天所有的行政院說要給一些獎學金還有其他絕大費的補助的時候,為什麼你們都沒有去考慮到其他的因素?"},{"start":7550.532,"end":7571.751,"text":"所以我們今天特別要提出來不要拿憲法或什麼增加預算來講今天如果連執政黨的委員都認同那找出方法來找出法源來以前過去的很多案例行政單位常常就是說無法源跟依據所以沒有辦法依法行政我們今天就是給你法源啊如果大家都支持的話行政院反對什麼"},{"start":7575.154,"end":7600.881,"text":"所以我們想今天如果說就這個部分不要拿很多的條件如果覺得非常重要尤其現在兩岸兵凶戰委軍人這個也不行那個也不行去哪裡也受到限制那有一些福利要給的時候又意見很多這是我們今天特別要提出來修法的要提出來增加這個法源的一個很重要的一個因素"},{"start":7602.012,"end":7602.232,"text":"有報告委員"},{"start":7625.317,"end":7630.123,"text":"我們現在的獎學金還有,獎助金有,就學補助的部分公立大學的有,"},{"start":7638.666,"end":7640.587,"text":"那要退輔會做什麼今天要退輔會做什麼今天衛福部也有很多的醫院那我們還是有榮民醫院今天那個勞動部"},{"start":7662.995,"end":7668.457,"text":"他有很多的職訓的專班那我們也有這些訓練的這些專班不是因為其他的部會有我們就應該要把它取消掉你應該要做得更好因為這是榮民的福利而且他身為榮民受到這樣的照顧這是一種榮譽所以你不要動不動就這個減那個減那要退輔會做什麼"},{"start":7685.014,"end":7685.514,"text":"五月七號的時候"},{"start":7711.004,"end":7715.927,"text":"退輔會員其實在基金會針對112學年度第二學期親韓榮民子女就學補助名單總共有1015位可是我們接到不少的反應就是能夠符合這個資格的其實他本身就是親韓的家庭"},{"start":7730.799,"end":7751.291,"text":"那我們現在基金會因為6月6號發出一個公告主要是因為基金會董事會的異動因為董事長不做了嘛李文忠不做了嘛所以你現在這個獎助學金侵含家庭學生的這樣子的一個獎學金你居然停發那什麼時候要發他就是需要這些錢啊"},{"start":7755.728,"end":7779.415,"text":"跟委員報告不是停發我們會發那你要什麼時候發為什麼只有董事長不做我們現在就暫停為什麼跟委員報告我們現在董事現在正在進行準備要補學這跟蔣學金你已經核准的這1000多位親含蔣學金跟董事會的異動有差嗎你這是例行性的工作啊是跟委員報告因為"},{"start":7780.655,"end":7804.88,"text":"董事長是法人代表我們所有的銀行的定存存擔相關的經費都是用董事長的帳來做開付所以因為現在董事長懸缺我們目前沒有辦法暫時沒有辦法發出去所有的基金會所有的很多的企業公司其實都會突然發生這樣的事情如果這樣那就什麼都不能做那"},{"start":7806.152,"end":7811.174,"text":"對於他們來說在他們要繳錢或者他們在這樣需求的時候他拿不到錢這對很多家庭會造成影響想辦法解決好不好如果你選不出來勒你像上一次有董事長鬧雙胞的時候拖了很久欸"},{"start":7834.462,"end":7854.138,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":7858.221,"end":7885.596,"text":"我們下面請鍾嘉斌委員質詢。主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府金剛長官員、會長工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生,有請嚴主委以及質詢中心官主任。"},{"start":7886.508,"end":7905.67,"text":"請言主委還有關主任處長要上來有沒有歡迎委員好主委好處長好主任好主委您過去在國防部長任內對這樣的新聞您不陌生在前幾天我們看到了說美軍要部署無人機地獄有沒有看到這樣的新聞"},{"start":7906.553,"end":7917.74,"text":"有新聞有看到那這個地域他形容說用無人機載具能來增加對岸犯台的這樣一個成本好那你所知道目前我們國防部是在增加培訓無人機的飛手"},{"start":7918.905,"end":7936.979,"text":"你有沒有大概略有所知我知道那您覺得目前估計啊國軍未來五年內會培育多少無人機的飛手這個數字我不是很清楚不清楚那你們有沒有去推估我知道國軍這五年來他是要培訓一些無人機的飛手"},{"start":7941.123,"end":7952.777,"text":"其實就3月27號我們在外交國防委員會國防部報告國軍無人機運用的現況至少要採購三千架各型那五年內要培養超過四千名合格飛手那這樣你有概念了齁"},{"start":7954.352,"end":7972.06,"text":"那表示說未來我們的國軍弟兄擬有這樣的技能的相當多那這些人他終究會退伍嘛是不是那退役之後他要轉業那麼請問我想請教一下目前對於未來往下看齁我們退役的飛手如何去銜接就業目前有沒有個想法有想法那能不能說明一下簡單說明一下"},{"start":7978.493,"end":7980.175,"text":"委員好好我是就業處處長事實上我們針對像這個無人機它有專長的訓練它現在整個國家產業非常多多用到無人機這個這個技術民間產業很多對所以我們會去針對它有專技我們有個專技專才活動會去針對未來預測那你們現在有在進行調查了嗎"},{"start":7998.218,"end":8021.959,"text":"現在因為我們這幾年是開始在執訓中心大量的培訓執訓中心說明一下你們現在有開始針對哪些行業需要用到無人機的飛手或者說無人機需要保修的一個服務嗎?有沒有去調查了?現在在智慧農業或是攝影部分無人機攝影部分這些部分我們目前都有跟業界在接觸有需要人力我們這邊那你知道我們屏東農業直保機需要多少嗎?"},{"start":8023.311,"end":8037.672,"text":"需要多少飛手嗎?你有沒有跟相關的業者接觸過?你知道全台灣目前有多少的飛手培訓學校?民間的。你知道目前哪些科技大學有在做無人機的飛手培訓跟課程的研發?知不知道?"},{"start":8038.585,"end":8066.676,"text":"這個沒有統計好來 那個 主委就是這樣子齁所以其實啊我們整個退伍會跟國防部他的人力運用上是相輔相成的當我們招募了一批新的具有技能的官兵的時候其實我們要預設他的第二春他退役下來之後轉業要做好人生 死涯的規劃所以他進來我們國家服務從事投身軍旅他其實上知道他退下來之後退伍會會幫他有這樣的安排這是一條線的你在徵募的時候"},{"start":8067.156,"end":8067.496,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":8087.368,"end":8087.869,"text":"好,那麼他的媒合就業率呢"},{"start":8103.057,"end":8115.784,"text":"因為他這個都是短期班我們沒有做相關統計我建議你們要納入統計啦因為你們訓出來當然要就業嘛那主委你看我這邊查到的資料呢預計今年6月20日預計入許20人有超過110人報名欸蠻夯的欸"},{"start":8121.207,"end":8146.26,"text":"這是給誰報名?給即將退伍的弟兄嘛,退的弟兄嘛,是不是這樣?所以說,我們現在看到了,未來我們國軍弟兄有很多具有這樣的專業職能,他需要怎樣?轉弦服務。那未來呢,我們的國軍弟兄沒有這樣的專業職能呢,他退伍之後,如果你給他這樣訓練,他可以找到這樣的工作。所以這個案子呢,要請你們來研究好了,往下看。那所以呢,目前我們來看一下,這是無人機的基本概念飛行原理。我們在屏東,我們就有相關的無人機協會。"},{"start":8147.401,"end":8158.215,"text":"平東縣政府甚至有一個專用的機場小型的供他們使用那這個要請你們資源去掌握最後因為時間的關係往下看所以呢今年還有兩班預計入局多少處長"},{"start":8160.755,"end":8183.348,"text":"我們預計兩個班是60人是好那顯然的有一百一十人要報名兩二十人的班所以主委最後的結論我不要再用太多時間是不是請主委可以具體的來承諾因應著國家戰備的需求我們未來的官兵當中具有無人機技能操作技能的相當多未來請退伍會把這個列入他們退役後"},{"start":8184.008,"end":8184.128,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":8212.449,"end":8212.509,"text":"主席"},{"start":8237.301,"end":8262.791,"text":"徐委員好您好那我想今天大家都非常關心這個恢復退伍上校階以上的子女教育補助費嘛那我們在這個報告裡面看到想請您口頭說明一下再次說明一下如果說恢復的話那需要增加的經費是多少原來是八千六百多萬那現在恢復之後整個是五千多萬"},{"start":8263.59,"end":8292.249,"text":"五千多萬所以其實五千多萬對於整個我們國家政府來說並不是一個非常大的一個數字喔所以當時2017年去取消的時候呢我想問一下就是說雖然當時不是您做退輔會的這個主委但是您有沒有去關心過2017年為什麼行政院要去取消那才會引發了非常多的不滿那我們今天才會討論到說是不是要入法或者是說要用怎麼樣的方式去爭取恢復的這個問題"},{"start":8293.69,"end":8311.204,"text":"行政院當時為什麼要卡住當時的退輔會主委馮世寬要爭取恢復這個部分?委員好,我是退輔局副處的處長。105年那個蔡政府上台的時候在執行年金改革"},{"start":8311.764,"end":8333.384,"text":"那在105年年底審查106中央政府總預算的時候針對軍公教的退休人員支援教育補助費在委員會審查的時候都做了保留送院會來處理所以在那一年的院會做成了一個決議就是針對公教"},{"start":8334.685,"end":8336.366,"text":"那當時馮士寬主委是不是有說要爭取恢復這件事情?有"},{"start":8361.42,"end":8378.551,"text":"有,那最後在哪裡被卡住的?為什麼後來沒有辦法爭取成功?我們陸陸續續報了6次,包含今年4月29號第7次,那含在這個行政院在研議當中,那因為基於軍公教橫貧性的一個考量"},{"start":8378.891,"end":8395.053,"text":"但軍公教畢竟是不一樣的嘛軍人跟公教人員的職業然後以及性質我覺得還是差異蠻大所以我們才會提說為什麼要提到這個所謂的修法的部分是因為今天即便是我們可能透過這個我們的委員們的提案"},{"start":8395.734,"end":8422.976,"text":"那去做爭取就算是爭取到如果沒有入法的話誰知道哪一天突然又被取消了呢這是很多人的擔憂所以我們看到這一次的這個草案裡面27條之二翁曉玲委員所提出的修訂部分他只提到了這個其子女教育補助費是由輔導會補助之他在裡面並沒有說要補助多少金額所以剛才很多民進黨的委員在講說這個事情是違憲的時候我心裡也打上很大的問號"},{"start":8423.777,"end":8440.666,"text":"因為像我過去在台北市議會的時候我們也有在修一個叫做重陽進老金的自治條例裡面呢當時台北市政府也認為說那這是不是屬於增加支出之提議那認為說是不是有違憲的問題最後發函到行政院之後呢說沒有違憲的問題因為"},{"start":8441.747,"end":8442.128,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":8456.704,"end":8457.064,"text":"二、審查本院委員嚴德發報告"},{"start":8482.81,"end":8509.929,"text":"也讓我們的這一些軍官朋友我們的這一些榮眷們他們可以比較安心那再來最後我想問一個問題就是各位我們6月16號就是黃埔軍校的百年校慶那親愛的京城市黃埔的校訓那我想要請問大家請問您一下可不可以趁這個機會跟我們說明一下黃埔他是如何創立在哪裡創立今天黃埔要創校百年你覺得黃埔的精神到底是什麼"},{"start":8512.315,"end":8517.464,"text":"黃埔是在民國十三年廣州市長洲島統立的。那麼孝遜是親愛京城。這個是"},{"start":8523.959,"end":8527.661,"text":"那當時黃埔在創立的時候參與過的戰役大概您知道的有哪一些?"},{"start":8543.926,"end":8547.989,"text":"所以它是一個一脈相傳的概念從我們整個中國的歷史上面來說那包含是從包含最重要的抗日"},{"start":8562.6,"end":8581.532,"text":"所以黃埔軍校的抗日老兵說過記住歷史才能讓後人自強不息所以今天這個6月16號就是黃埔建軍的一百週年國防部也編列了這個紀念冊那我們希望就是說國防部我們要慶祝一百週年的這個系列活動那我們也擴大了就是編列4400萬來辦理那我們要"},{"start":8584.514,"end":8586.375,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":8602.739,"end":8603.039,"text":"好,謝謝主委。"},{"start":8631.114,"end":8632.855,"text":"還有人事總署的副總會常事"},{"start":8669.284,"end":8683.513,"text":"兩位長官好今天就是審查翁曉玲委員擬具的退伍條例二十七條之二我們看到這個條例當初大家都看到"},{"start":8685.239,"end":8709.136,"text":"這個數字歷史可以說不化4月29號這個本委員會王定宇委員資深的這個外交國防委員提出來的補助會那個單子我都看了就不印了我就不印了臨時提案他提案我看到馬文俊也簽字了林竹英委員也簽字不分黨派都支持啊"},{"start":8710.287,"end":8738.05,"text":"但是6月5號又提出來說這個有立法權強迫行政院增加預算的疑慮建立修改行政命令這個所以好今天來講的話我們知道行政命令位置比較低嘛當然就修法今天這個法呢歐委員所提到這個法我就請教這個原主委要退伍的立場是怎麼樣"},{"start":8740.219,"end":8740.8,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":8751.977,"end":8770.874,"text":"我們基本上認為因為這是軍公教待遇這是軍公教的一個福利措施那這個退休人員部分不應該把它定在法律上面這個應該是屬於行政院的一個權責在處理所以我們建議這個部分應該是由行政院這邊來做處理而不是把它錄到一個退伍法裡面以上報告"},{"start":8772.396,"end":8792.247,"text":"為什麼你的權力可以大超過立委啊?要不要立法我們立委在修法立法多少都是把行政命令權力位階不夠拉到變成一個法律位階我們一天到晚在做這個事啊怎麼會你有這麼大的權力來說對立法與立法委員的法指指點點你怎麼這麼大的權力呢?請問你這筆錢下來的話總共多少錢?"},{"start":8802.728,"end":8830.28,"text":"如果這個案子通過了,增加多少支出你告訴我啊多少錢報告委員,就我們軍人恢復的話需要八千六百萬左右我看到的數字八千多也要人說五千不管八千五千都是一點點而已對,就這麼少的錢我不知道人事總署哪裡來這麼大的權力可以否決我們立法委員的提案"},{"start":8832.751,"end":8852.488,"text":"你為什麼權利來否決我們呢?我跟委員報告,我們不是否決六案,我是說您在問我這意見的時候,我們表達我們行政院這方面的意見就是你反對嘛!對不對?就是意思你反對就是因為你認為行政權比立法權大啊!立法院永遠是你們的這個立法局啊!莫名其妙!"},{"start":8859.056,"end":8872.306,"text":"你怎麼這麼大的權力呢?一個人事總署的副人事長不可以提這個案子,這要行政命令了這樣我們法律都不要修了通通行政命令就好了行政權多大就是你的思路就是因為大家這個變來變去變來變去我們把法律定了這才是正道啊告訴這個"},{"start":8888.991,"end":8891.352,"text":"人事總署的這個長官不要把行政權壓制立法權不能夠這樣子這個法要通過這個法要過才是真正的落實了要照顧退伍軍人另外我想請教這個原主委"},{"start":8916.229,"end":8933.524,"text":"我一個案子一直看請問你你當過國防部長對不對是這個一樣是軍人出身的陸海公官校畢業的分發到陸海軍跟分發到國安局國安會議就不一樣喔分發到國安會國安局"},{"start":8939.022,"end":8952.675,"text":"他的福利就跟分到陸海空的軍人完全不一樣在過去有圈改條例的時候到正式編制的軍人那裡都有房子"},{"start":8954.008,"end":8979.234,"text":"可是到國安會國安局就沒有房子這個事情已經折磨了十幾年那些都已經垂垂老矣剩下也只有一兩個一個眷村在那裡偵查一直覺得說怎麼會這樣子呢我也是官校畢業的啊我的同學去入海空就有房子啊我去國安會國安局啊就沒有房子啊誰敢想啊咧"},{"start":8982.695,"end":8995.789,"text":"跟委員報告我是服務照護署處長我們有跟國防部討論過這個案子國防部說他有幾個新村他們現在正在核定那有幾個新村是會核定他這個納入圈改條例"},{"start":8996.63,"end":9022.551,"text":"那幾個?因為他沒有給我資料。群製對不對?群製。他跟我講有三個村還四個村。我會後再跟國防部要資料給委員。所以怎麼樣?你把結論講一下。那他們現在呢,審查之後如果核定確定沒問題,他們會把它納入捲改條例。那至於有其他幾個村,因為他的這個條件不符合。因為這個主管機關是國防部啦。我們盡力來協助這裡面的榮民、榮眷這樣子。"},{"start":9025.575,"end":9033.799,"text":"我就拜託原主委你以前部長在國安部長的時候國安部都反對的在那裡一直撤走你的上一任佛世光主委我要問他他認為他很貼心啊"},{"start":9041.82,"end":9045.423,"text":"二、審查本院委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":9064.887,"end":9074.476,"text":"現在好不容易處長講了齁國防部可以分寬了是不是可以處理幾個什麼時候會有結論什麼時候會有結論告訴我大概什麼時候這個是國防部的權責好你細節跟我講謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":9089.284,"end":9117.068,"text":"接下來請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英、楊瓊英委員不在請邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在請徐欣盈、徐欣盈、徐欣盈委員不在請翁曉玲、翁曉玲委員不在請蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在請謝一鳳、謝一鳳、謝一鳳委員不在請鄭振前、鄭振前、鄭振前委員不在請鄭天才、鄭天才、鄭天才委員不在那今天"},{"start":9127.346,"end":9146.616,"text":"已登記諮詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束委員口頭諮詢未及答覆的部分會要求補充資料者亦請相關單位已書面於兩週內提供我們現在休息五分鐘休息過後進行法案審查"},{"start":9160.278,"end":9172.884,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法．並備質詢。"},{"start":9192.193,"end":9201.542,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9220.346,"end":9226.551,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案。）並備質詢。"},{"start":9239.52,"end":9239.8,"text":"我請晉儒晉儒"},{"start":9266.394,"end":9268.014,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言"},{"start":9291.351,"end":9301.875,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9314.762,"end":9317.008,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9326.617,"end":9339.265,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9349.599,"end":9363.367,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法．並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法．並備質詢。"},{"start":9377.895,"end":9385.361,"text":"二、審查本院委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":9399.577,"end":9400.339,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":9416.523,"end":9420.246,"text":"那個那個誰?齊柏?齊柏?齊柏?齊柏?沒有要動的"},{"start":9445.06,"end":9445.2,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":9470.781,"end":9477.149,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案。）並備質詢。"},{"start":9482.278,"end":9486.219,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9512.887,"end":9517.108,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》．並備質詢。"},{"start":9537.283,"end":9539.785,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9561.247,"end":9571.316,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案案。）並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9588.639,"end":9589.28,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":9603.636,"end":9613.642,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具 «國軍退除役官兵專業職能及媒合之具體作法》案。）並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9631.657,"end":9657.871,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案。）並備質詢。二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具:「國軍退除役官兵導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案。）並備質詢。"},{"start":9660.117,"end":9682.476,"text":"我們繼續開會現在請現在開始審查法案請議事人員宣讀條文國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二條文草案第二十七條之二退除役官兵輔和之領退休奉慎養金及生活補助費之人員其子女教育補助費由輔導會補助之宣讀完畢"},{"start":9687.042,"end":9693.884,"text":"我們現在進行國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二草案逐條審查。委員有無意見。"},{"start":9706.762,"end":9724.728,"text":"針對本席所提出來的國軍退除役官兵輔導條例要增訂二十七條之二的這個條文內容事實上它的目的是為了要對於國家有重大犧牲貢獻的退役上校能夠給他更好的照顧跟補助"},{"start":9725.828,"end":9726.569,"text":"一百零六年之前其實當時是所有的"},{"start":9743.911,"end":9770.996,"text":"退除役官兵都是一視同仁有相同的補助還有贍養基因退休奉等等他的這個自己待遇都是一樣的但是呢106年之後呢這個人事總署才把上校級以上的子女教育補助費等等以及其他這些補助費用呢就刪除了那麼我認為說這個是違反平等原則而且也不符合憲法照顧軍人的這樣的精神那麼基於"},{"start":9772.884,"end":9799.174,"text":"我剛剛所說的理由以及還有就是輔導會國防部其實都支持這個案子因為事實上這個並沒有增加太多這個政府的經費預算那麼同時我們要考慮到在現在大專院校的學費其實是越來越高尤其是如果是讀私立學校的話那麼他的這個學費的費用負擔是高的再加上我們的這個退出役上校"},{"start":9800.014,"end":9800.794,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":9816.423,"end":9816.483,"text":"二、審查報告"},{"start":9840.13,"end":9842.613,"text":"其他委員請王定宇召委"},{"start":9855.726,"end":9870.184,"text":"那我也謝謝我們不同黨派委員都簽署了我們過去在各個委員會都有類似的臨時停案建請行政單位去研議為什麼要用建請也就是說不管根據財政紀律法根據預算法"},{"start":9871.26,"end":9885.966,"text":"在這樣增加預算的支出其實是要經由行政院要溝通要協調的而不是立法機關單一方面用法律來要求編列縱使一件好的事情如果用錯的方式"},{"start":9887.304,"end":9904.461,"text":"在這一件可以那其他呢我們現在看到的是一個全面性的我不好意思說用肉統也就是說如果我們今天立法院是單純處理退除役官兵這一條我覺得我們可以好好來討論約行政院來溝通但是目前狀況不是在每個委員會全面的"},{"start":9905.282,"end":9926.347,"text":"要用立法的方式做預算增加之支出不僅與憲法70條大法官釋憲391條或者是財政紀律法5條跟7條或者是我們的預算法其實都明顯的違背所以本席在這邊還是我們在這邊同事那麼久了"},{"start":9927.372,"end":9956.585,"text":"我是建議對的事情不要用錯的方法對的事情不要跟政治上的競爭來做結合我覺得這件事情我們上次領提之後我們希望退輔會跟行政院好好溝通在預算的支出上是否妥適我們來照顧校級軍官這個是一個合法處理的方式但是現在把它編列到我們就直接不管你行政院同不同意因為我們的預算法講的是要跟行政院溝通"},{"start":9958.615,"end":9960.217,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":9979.893,"end":9981.275,"text":"二、審查本院委員會主任委員"},{"start":9996.096,"end":10016.915,"text":"我認為這個不妥當這等於是讓無端的人進入陷入爭議這個不好所以我建議所以我建議我們今天是不是就是不是先保留或者看召委怎麼處理要表決也可以要保留我是建議這個案子不是我們不要去讓退伍軍人捲進這樣的糾紛裡面好不好"},{"start":10023.877,"end":10032.525,"text":"人事行政總署表示,親人之利教育補助費與公務人員必須要恆平的原則。"},{"start":10049.921,"end":10069.273,"text":"不是兩者都是一樣公平的,是橫貧的原則。國防部表示,為充實後備部隊軍官缺額以兵力,目前規劃將後備校招編管八年的年限延逸延長為退伍12至17年範圍內未除役的後備軍人。"},{"start":10073.137,"end":10101.607,"text":"那另外就是今人不統一公教人員的安穩受到服役年限的限制工作保障前不如公教人員外服勤的時間工作的環境人生的自由家庭的照顧以待遇福利都以公教人員不一樣尤其是今人的危險性更是高於公教人員今人本來就以公教不同"},{"start":10102.927,"end":10126.256,"text":"只請這個齊頭氏的平等軍人以保護國家人民的天職誰是啊但是誰來保護軍人那另外是第二個面向是進攻效不能啊不不等同類比原因在哪裡第一個啊人生的自由受限制啊安全的這個風險高長時間擔任啊戰備的扶持"},{"start":10131.198,"end":10155.324,"text":"工作地點不斷調職經常演練遠離駐地待遇福利與工作不成正比無法有效照顧家庭所以升上校沒有罪請問是否同意恢復上校執理教育的補助費用以上是本席的表達好 謝謝那主管請"},{"start":10164.665,"end":10167.626,"text":"王定宇教委王定宇教委王定宇教委"},{"start":10186.519,"end":10188.462,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":10200.805,"end":10229.1,"text":"在我們的財政紀律法跟預算法跟相關的事件條文都告訴我們一件事情就是我們當然可以跟行政機關溝通這個預算多一點但是要經過溝通那誰來表達意見有時候是財長有時候是主計有時候是人長他們就是代表行政院表達態度而不是說你們怎麼可以發表意見來跟我們不一樣這個是五個五權憲法裡面行政權跟立法權不同意見的表述所以"},{"start":10230.123,"end":10254.34,"text":"既然意見不一樣,如果我們強行用立法的方式要行政機關依法來處理,我們又創造一個憲政上的問題。但我不認為這件事情這麼難處理。第二個,剛才那個黃立委員有提到說,軍跟公教確實不同。我們當時連改的時候,為什麼軍人對連改的版本滿意度98%以上,那時候還是嚴德發部長的時候做的。"},{"start":10255.04,"end":10276.116,"text":"我們實質上在如果長流久用來看有的還要做增加因為地板從40提高到55了嘛當時我們在這邊都一起處理的那已經是上上界的事情了可是現在在別的委員會同一個黨團提案的是要弄成一樣欸我們在國防委員會說不一樣在另外一個委員會提案說要把它弄成一樣"},{"start":10277.811,"end":10299.46,"text":"說法是同一個政黨說法變矛盾的說法是矛盾的所以我才會建議說不要把這個事情捲進來我們不忍心我們希望照顧退伍軍人我們希望照顧軍中袍澤這件事情是我們今天就先我們委員會有大體討論了就先到這個地方就好也不用表決也不要出委員會"},{"start":10301.101,"end":10302.062,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人擬具"},{"start":10323.323,"end":10341.281,"text":"我剛剛其實也很仔細的聽了包括這個提案人翁曉玲委員但翁委員這個他現在不在吼那其實幾位在黨的委員當然在質詢的內容我也很仔細聽但大家都講到說這個錢看起來一年好像增加五千多萬"},{"start":10343.522,"end":10346.063,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲"},{"start":10364.209,"end":10383.422,"text":"確實是有違反剛剛講包括財政紀律法包括預算法這幾個相關的法律之餘這確實反而製造了很多的爭議我反而覺得是說這個提案的意旨我想今天外交國防委員會的大家都支持一直都支持"},{"start":10384.284,"end":10407.657,"text":"那在這個都支持的狀況之下我們一起來跟行政院建請一起來跟行政院爭取透過行政院整體的這個預算他們在做一些考慮或者是在做一些整體的思考有沒有可能來爭取反而確實這個法我不建議我也不覺得該用現在所謂立法的方式"},{"start":10408.575,"end":10408.875,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":10427.827,"end":10452.824,"text":"我們在委員會裡面假如硬要來過這個法案或者是硬要來處理這個法案硬要出委員會這個法案我反而覺得這對於我們的這個退出役的這個官兵士官朋友上校即便是上校或他的子女朋友反而不一定是件好事我們有更好的做法這是一個好的事情剛才說大家都支持我沒有聽到哪一個委員不支持這個事情的意旨"},{"start":10454.008,"end":10459.722,"text":"可是沒有好的做法為什麼不走好的做法一定要走一個有爭議的做法我不我不懂為什麼以上"},{"start":10464.557,"end":10493.015,"text":"好接下來請許巧欣委員好那我想這件事情呢剛才很多的委員們也都表述了對這個整體來說他的意義來講大家是都共同支持的那先前呢包含這個臨時提案的部分也不分黨派大家都有連署也代表了我們委員會裡面的委員也是支持這樣子的一個內容但是問題是大家在等的包含我們的這些退除役官兵他們在等的是實踐"},{"start":10494.256,"end":10510.565,"text":"所以如果今天只是做了臨時提案那並沒有入法那很多的退役軍官他們也會覺得那就算就算我退一萬步來說今天呢可能好那暫時現有了今年有了好臨時提案官啊溝通有了那明年會不會又被取消後面會不會被取消"},{"start":10512.526,"end":10540.945,"text":"所以大家還是會希望就是包含是我們真的很多的除役軍官他們會覺得說希望能夠透過入法的方式對他們來講是第一是一個保障第二呢是可以要求就是說可以立即盡快的來實踐所以呢我們的看法還是入法對於這些退役除役的這些軍官來說呢是比較好的那至於處理的方式呢那我們在這裡也具體的建議找委是不是送出之後再由黨團協商來決定謝謝"},{"start":10545.308,"end":10567.663,"text":"請林楚英委員謝謝趙偉我想今天剛剛在詢答的時候大家講得非常清楚了但是本席還是要一再的強調就是會有所謂的這個有王地委員所提出的這個建議案臨時提案那麼我會稱為是建議案的原因就在於立法院的職責當中對於預算的部分"},{"start":10568.123,"end":10568.463,"text":"二、審查本院委員嚴德發報告"},{"start":10588.49,"end":10614.867,"text":"保障預算經費對於我們的退休的軍官或者其軍眷來說是真正的在社會上出去走出去之後不會被受到質疑我要強調的是我們一定都支持也肯定但是我們必須要在法規上面給予行政單位所以我反而是認為今天應該是希望包括嚴主委您回去在行政院的部分能夠"},{"start":10615.728,"end":10615.988,"text":"二、審查本院委員嚴德發報告"},{"start":10632.318,"end":10636.142,"text":"本末倒置或是倒過為因所以本席還是認為說這個案子我們現在留在委員會當中如果說是希望能夠以爭取預算的方式那麼兩邊雙軌並行包括預算的部分請主委好好的回去行政院溝通我們一定會給予支持也會給予肯定"},{"start":10649.255,"end":10671.01,"text":"至於修法的部分還是那句話憲法當中對於立法院的規定那就是不在預算當中作為增加至於要修法的話也請行政院這裡包括退輔會這裡提出版本這個才是一個正確應該要走的路徑我相信對於在場現在所有在瞭解關心這個案子的我們的所有的退輔"},{"start":10672.671,"end":10672.711,"text":"主席"},{"start":10704.321,"end":10705.102,"text":"姚美玲委員"},{"start":10726.094,"end":10727.897,"text":"二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言二、審查本院委員翁曉玲等18人發言"},{"start":10742.918,"end":10742.958,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":10771.233,"end":10771.634,"text":"休息三分鐘"},{"start":10933.788,"end":10949.317,"text":"國軍退除役官兵輔導條例增訂第二十七條之二草案的這個部分我們是不是保留送院會處理有委員反對那我們表決好不好舉手記名表決"},{"start":10958.51,"end":10958.89,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10979.127,"end":11002.44,"text":"指正黨的委員民進黨的委員是反對用現在的方法的因為我們認為現在這個案子的方法我講的不是意旨哦我說的是方法上不是好的方法我覺得我們應該繼續讓再繼續在委員會裡面討論我們要達成這個意旨那比較好的方法是什麼我覺得這件事情是我們想要把這個案子"},{"start":11003.387,"end":11004.188,"text":"二、審查本院委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":11032.29,"end":11055.72,"text":"不要去詮釋成說我們反對這個意旨我們沒有反對這個意旨全部人都贊成這個意旨只是怎麼尋找到好的方法我們多花一些時間在委員會裡面討論這個方法我們確實認為不是好的方法理由已經講得很清楚剛剛很多委員在尋答的時候剛剛我們在討論的時候都處理了我覺得這個討論是好的這樣好不好我還是把這意見再重複講一次謝謝"},{"start":11060.041,"end":11061.542,"text":"三位贊成者三人反對者"},{"start":11092.605,"end":11093.565,"text":"現在決定保留令哲琪繼續審查"},{"start":11129.018,"end":11148.162,"text":"趙偉這是對的態度我們保留繼續審查展現出我們對方法彼此看法可能不一樣我們認為現在這個方法有違法違憲之餘當然國民黨團認為沒有這我們互相尊重但是我們在這個委員會有個共同追求的目標是一樣的那個目標就是我們希望"},{"start":11149.022,"end":11149.202,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":11166.238,"end":11166.258,"text":"三會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}