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在場留言先進 列席的政府機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請農業部陳部長 也請經濟部的郭部長好 請兩位部長"},{"start":25.333,"end":43.447,"text":"兩位部長好我今天的題目呢就是零關稅同盟強化台美貿易880億因應進口衝擊要顧農業我先請教一下郭部長如果上個星期美國政府川普的宣布是個晴天霹靂你覺得早上看到他說延緩90天的感覺心情怎麼樣"},{"start":44.875,"end":73.937,"text":"報告委員這也都在我們的預估之內都在預估之內難怪這幾天你都氣定神閒好這裡面呢說到因為後面我要問一下陳部長因為昨天我已經跟郭部長請教過了那目前呢川普是在暫停90天只抽10%好好了那有什麼連帶的改變呢來我們看一下下一頁那麼請教陳部長川普開出各國不對等的關稅清單目的是什麼譬如台灣莫名其妙是32%結果呢你覺得後來的結果從結果來看你覺得他的目的是什麼"},{"start":74.656,"end":91.155,"text":"我覺得他是一個談判員他就是一個要比你上談判桌而且呢他很清楚的要創造一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟他對中國高關稅 中委都要報復結果兩個越來越高越來越高然後呢其他的國家看看苗頭不對都說好了我們對等嘛因為只有對等"},{"start":92.613,"end":117.546,"text":"你對美國零 那美國也會對你零嘛所以大家都把對美的關稅降到零了結果這產生什麼問題呢 產生什麼情況呢 往下看就是說原來中國貨 效往美國的中國貨被誰取代被這些跟美國互為零關稅的同盟所取代 是不是這樣子中國貨出場啦 因為它太貴啦但是相對台灣去的啦 以色列去的變便宜了嘛 所以就改買"},{"start":118.82,"end":140.979,"text":"這些其他的同盟國的貨但是美國貨也賣不到中國去嘛 那換賣到哪裡去賣到台灣 賣到這些同盟國嘛 部長你同意嗎報告委員 我們針對你昨天的這些指導我們回去有做一些模擬 謝謝你的這個先見之明所以我們大概才會推估一些這個狀況"},{"start":142.677,"end":159.317,"text":"那對這個趨勢大概是朝您所指導的這個方向我想會這樣朝這個方向來發展謝謝郭部長的肯定那我也請教陳部長如果台灣降低對美關稅甚至到達零那能夠降低台美的貿易逆差嗎"},{"start":161.25,"end":185.245,"text":"我想某個程度現在不確定性還蠻高的最主要是從美國進到台灣的這些這些主要的農產品是以黃小玉為主那黃小玉這些飼料的這個部分最主要是跟我們產業的規模是有關係的所以說跟關稅的關聯性有一點但是還是看你的未納量好我們來看一下美國進口台灣對不起往上往上往上"},{"start":186.846,"end":200.598,"text":"好來美國進口美國的商品因為零關稅會什麼進口增加像黃小玉對不對當然有些是不受影響因為他的因素是非關稅因素不是關稅因素像汽車昨天我問過郭部長了嘛"},{"start":201.601,"end":222.106,"text":"那你日本車跟美國車都零關稅你要買什麼當然買日本車啦美國的火雞肉向來人家台灣人民就不喜歡吃嘛但是我們必須政策性的去擴大採購譬如買軍備買天然氣是不是這樣子那請教陳部長你認為目前880的方案是為了因應出口商品因為美國的高關稅而受到的衝擊嗎"},{"start":223.41,"end":247.313,"text":"原來的八百八十億以農業部門來講是一百八十億對然後我們一百八十億我先問你是為了因應出口嘛對不對是因應出口受阻嘛所以博部長是不是也同意原來的八百八十億也是為了因應出口受阻嗎這是我們第一步先能夠是個舒緩國內這些出口廠商那你覺得現在當初母親戶口90天之後有沒有出口受阻的這個憂慮了"},{"start":248.934,"end":269.404,"text":"沒有沒有 我們現在因為只有在 我們必須要快速在90天裡面看到最後的決定是什麼好 那個最後的決定是台灣跟美國都互相零關稅你覺得工業的這700億要協助出口受阻的 還有需要用到嗎你這邊都評估的是外銷的啊 申請資格都是要出口業啊農業部門的呢 這就外銷美國的產品啊 是不是這樣"},{"start":270.044,"end":298.508,"text":"報告委員 我想我們會評估各種不同的狀況這個是只是其中的一個狀況但是它可能發生的會根據全球的我相信美國不是只有談台美之間的狀況是的 我們要考慮到全球如果實際發生了是台灣對美國出口不受影響是台灣變成零關稅美國會進口很多我們受到影響那這個時候這881票調整使用的方向跟對象"},{"start":300.472,"end":315.538,"text":"好來陳部長就是你了來我們現在看很快的結我跟委員報告現在目前181大概是以出國轉向但是如果農業進口呢但是農業進口的部分我們會看最後的一個結果假如是美國進口台灣是零關稅的話呢我講農業部不可能"},{"start":320.541,"end":331.756,"text":"黃小玉本來就零關稅了對這不就有影響嗎但是那個雞肉牛肉的部分因為國內的比重非常低但是雞肉我們有一定的比重所以像我們國內有產業的話我們關稅不會輕易讓步所以"},{"start":336.102,"end":363.224,"text":"等一等 你說關稅不會輕易讓步如果台灣對美國不零關稅讓他的肌肉進來我們經濟部就沒有辦法零關稅去美國我跟委員報告所有的關稅在談判的過程中不是用國家的零關稅全部一致零關稅他會現在回到不同的產業別我了解 部長你的想法跟川普的不一樣他就是簡單我就是要你們站到台灣跟我美國站在一起零關稅自由貿易同盟"},{"start":364.285,"end":372.037,"text":"盡量不要有那些不是關稅造成的障礙所以零關稅會造成台灣肌肉的影響你同不同意"},{"start":373.288,"end":397.861,"text":"如果未來被迫接受我們互相互惠零關稅不過我想在我們現在目前談判的過程中我們還會堅持因為農業有它的特殊性我了解因為特殊性我們來看一下在WTO的時候往下看本來在WTO之後我們台灣稻米年長115萬噸WTO給我們的進口費容許在14萬噸裡面是零關稅但是超出的部分還是要課稅對不對是縱使是這樣子台灣的稻米的成本大概是四五十萬一公斤"},{"start":399.182,"end":414.236,"text":"但是如果說我們今天是零關稅,軍價可能是29,所以你要因應衝擊,因為時間快到了,我就請你衝擊,來往下看,郭部長換你了。這個裕隆汽車前兩天發出一個聲明,他說如果台灣對美國是零關稅,他的汽車進來零關稅的話,他們覺得會很難撐下去,你認同這樣的說法嗎?"},{"start":420.429,"end":434.4,"text":"這個在現象上面可能會發生這樣子不過我們經濟部的角度來講我們還是因為我們有10萬多人的從業人員在所以我們會讓他轉型調整轉型調整譬如說台灣的電子零組件這麼強讓他轉型生產電動車這也是一個項目很好"},{"start":440.505,"end":465.358,"text":"陳部長這就是我希望農業部要及早因應的我是揣在蛋其實如果是台灣出口受阻其實相對農業縣受到的影響相對低但是如果台灣現在是進口是開放那麼我們農業縣受到的影響是大的但是如果出口沒有問題進口有問題我們郭部長只要擔心台灣的汽車裝配業等一些少數的產業但是如果農業部門我們就受到很大影響所以結論"},{"start":466.775,"end":479.475,"text":"是不是請農業部就我國 若我國對美的關稅降至零如何協助我國的農漁畜牧業因應衝擊提出農業報告 可以嗎可以 我們會做這樣的一個分析那多久可以給本席一個月好 謝謝 謝謝兩位部長 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時3分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請農業部陳部長和經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：請兩位部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：兩位部長好，我今天的題目是「零關稅同盟強化台美貿易，880億因應進口衝擊顧農業」。我先請教一下郭部長，如果上星期美國政府川普的宣布是晴天霹靂，你覺得早上看到他說要延緩90天的心情怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個也都在我們的預估之內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：哇！都在預估之內，難怪這幾天你都氣定神閒。我要問一下陳部長，昨天我已經跟郭部長請教過了，目前川普暫停90天只抽10%，有什麼連帶的改變呢？川普開出各國不對等的關稅清單，目的是什麼？臺灣莫名其妙是32%，從結果來看你覺得他的目的是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得他就是一個談判的手段。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要逼你上談判桌？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：而且他很清楚的要創造一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟，他對中國高關稅，中國也對他報復，結果兩個越來越高、越來越高，其他國家看苗頭不對，都說我們對等。因為只有對等，你對美國零，美國也會對你零，所以大家都把對美關稅降到零。結果這產生什麼情況？原來銷往美國的中國貨被誰取代？被這些跟美國互為零關稅的同盟所取代，是不是這樣子？中國貨出場了，因為它太貴了，但是相對臺灣、以色列的變便宜了嘛！所以就改買這些其他同盟國的貨。但是美國貨也賣不到中國去，那換賣到哪裡？賣到臺灣這些同盟國嘛！部長你同意嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，針對你昨天的指導，我們回去有做一些模擬，謝謝您的先見之明，我們大概會推估一些狀況，趨勢大概是朝您所指導的方向來發展。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝郭部長的肯定。請教陳部長，如果臺灣降低對美關稅甚至到達零，能夠降低臺美的貿易逆差嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：現在不確定性還滿高的，最主要是從美國進到臺灣的主要農產品是以黃小玉為主，黃小玉這些飼料最主要是跟我們產業的規模有關係。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以跟關稅的關聯性有一點，但還是看你的胃納量。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們來看一下，臺灣進口美國的商品，因為零關稅進口會增加，像黃小玉對不對？當然有些是不受影響，因為它的因素是非關稅因素，像汽車。昨天我問過郭部長，日本車跟美國車都零關稅，你要買什麼？當然買日本車。而美國的火雞肉，臺灣人民向來就不喜歡吃，但我們必須政策性的去擴大採購，譬如買軍備、買天然氣，是不是這樣？請教陳部長，你認為原來880億元的方案是為了因應出口商品因美國高關稅受到的衝擊嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：以農業部門來講是180億元，然後我們180億元……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我先問你是為了因應出口對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因應出口受阻嘛！所以郭部長是不是也同意，原來的880億元也是為了因應出口受阻？"],["郭部長智輝：這是我們的第一步，先舒緩國內這些出口廠商遭遇的壓力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你覺得現在川普宣布90天之後，有沒有出口受阻的憂慮了？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我們現在必須要快速在90天內……"],["鍾委員佳濱：回應？"],["郭部長智輝：看最後的決定是什麼。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，如果最後的決定是臺灣跟美國互相零關稅，要協助出口受阻的工業的700億元還有需要嗎？你這邊評估的都是外銷，申請資格都是出口業，農業部門只有外銷美國的產品，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們會評估各種不同的狀況，這只是其中一種，但他是會根據全球的，我相信美國不是只有談臺美之間的狀況。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們來想想看，如果實際發生了，是臺灣對美國的出口不受影響，但臺灣變成零關稅後，反而是美國會進口很多，導致臺灣會受到影響，到時候這880億元，是不是要調整使用的方向跟對象？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，陳部長，就是你了，我們往下看……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，目前180億元大概是以出口轉向，但是農業進口的部分……"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果變成進口呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會看最後的結果，我想農業部不可能……"],["鍾委員佳濱：假如是美國進口臺灣是零關稅的話，哪些會受影響？一、二、三、四、五？"],["陳部長駿季：黃小玉本來就零關稅了……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以不受影響，那雞肉？"],["陳部長駿季：牛肉的部分，因為國內的比重非常低，但是雞肉我們有一定的比重，國內有產業的話，我們的關稅不會輕易讓步。"],["鍾委員佳濱：等等，你說關稅不會輕易讓步，如果臺灣對美國不零關稅，讓他的雞肉進來，我們經濟部就沒有辦法零關稅去美國……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我跟委員報告，所有的關稅在談判的過程中，不是用國家全部一次零關稅，而是會回到不同的產業別……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我瞭解，部長，你的想法跟川普不一樣，他很簡單，就是要臺灣跟美國站在一起，零關稅自由貿易同盟，儘量不要有那些關稅造成的障礙。如果未來被迫接受我們互為零關稅，零關稅會造成臺灣雞肉的影響，你同不同意？"],["陳部長駿季：目前在談判的過程中，我想我們還是會堅持，因為農業有它的特殊性。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我瞭解，本來在WTO中，我們臺灣稻米的年產量是115萬噸，WTO給我們的進口配額，容許在14萬噸內是零關稅，但超出的部分還是要課稅，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：縱使是這樣，臺灣的稻米成本大概是一公斤四、五十元，如果我們今天是零關稅，均價可能是二十九元，所以你要因應衝擊。","郭部長換你了，裕隆汽車前兩天發出一個聲明，說如果臺灣對美國是零關稅，美國汽車進來零關稅的話，他們覺得會很難撐下去，你認同這樣的說法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：可能會發生這樣的現象，不過以經濟部的角度來講，因為我們還是有十萬多的從業人員在，所以我們會讓它轉型。"],["鍾委員佳濱：轉型、調整。"],["郭部長智輝：比如臺灣的電子零組件這麼強，讓它轉型生產電動車，這也是一個項目。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，陳部長，這就是我希望農業部要及早因應的，我是「剉咧等」。其實臺灣如果是出口受阻，農業受到的影響相對低，但如果是進口開放，那麼我們農業受到的影響是大的。如果出口沒有問題，進口有問題，郭部長只要擔心臺灣汽車裝配業等一些少數的產業，但農業部門就會受到很大的影響。所以結論，請農業部就「若我國對美關稅降至0%，如何協助我國農漁畜牧產業因應衝擊」提出書面報告，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：可以，我們會做這樣的分析，並提供給委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：多久可以給本席？"],["陳部長駿季：一個月。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝兩位部長。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","下一位請羅美玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-8","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","陳超明","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","羅美玲","李坤城","許宇甄","葉元之","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長及財政部首長就「因應美國關稅政策以維持我國農漁畜業及關鍵產\n業競爭力之協助措施」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}