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今天變成怎樣 但是明天又換另外一種臉彷彿這個川劇變臉 但是他的內心沒有變他的內心就是 他把那個臉 他不講你的真實臉孔在哪裡但是他的內心就是 讓美國再次偉大他的核心是美國的這個國家利益 對不對所以他是基本上 他是這個進攻型的這個現實主義者"},{"start":67.402,"end":93.454,"text":"他主動出擊去爭取他的國家利益用強勢逼迫透過這種方式我覺得他已經達到初步的目的所以各國要怎麼樣去因應川普的關稅的政策我認為我國可以用不變應萬變什麼叫不變第一對內的部分一定要強化這個產業的競爭力"},{"start":96.806,"end":115.441,"text":"你有競爭力你才有跟其他國家這個競爭的本錢不然你關稅制度調整你有競爭力一定是比其他國家更有機會所以要不斷的強化這個產業競爭力第二個我們這個賴總統不是提到這個均衡台灣嗎我們要均衡全球的貿易市場"},{"start":117.233,"end":137.983,"text":"均衡全球貿易市場不要把所有的市場集中在特定國家比方說過去集中在中國 還是美國有一陣子是東協我覺得全球六大洲都是我們的主要市場沒有分什麼次要市場所以你要持續強化均衡全球貿易市場強化對國際的行銷"},{"start":143.715,"end":157.912,"text":"另外一方面就是要全面透過這個時間 盤點當前農工相關產品的關稅政策是不是也不合時宜 是不是也有檢討的必要 這三個不變"},{"start":159.887,"end":187.428,"text":"持續推動 持續加強這對內的部分是可操之在我們但是不可操之在我們是在在美國的這個關稅政策我剛剛所提到 川劇變臉幾乎常常每天這變動是一個常態所以我們強化是如何跟這個主要貿易國家的這個協商的機制跟談判人員的強化駐美 我們談判小組駐美的這個經濟組統有多少人 那個賴市長"},{"start":191.744,"end":210.103,"text":"駐美經濟組的同仁,我去過,他們人蠻多的18個人,不只是美國,整個北美,所以我告訴你,18個人你要加強,像行政院有跨部會的這個因應小組,我希望你這個經濟部也要組成跨局處的這個因應小組"},{"start":213.706,"end":218.088,"text":"國貿局、以前工業局、現在產發署相關的局處跟駐美經濟小組的同仁要保持一個密切的聯繫前線跟後勤能夠馬上得到這個訊息的無縫接軌同樣的農業部也要如此辦理"},{"start":237.998,"end":263.129,"text":"包括你這個六項主要影響農業產品六項是主要影響的那六項總金額是多少錢蕭美總金額是多少錢六項加起來現在目前加起來六項加起來大概是五十多億五十多億嘛相對於比這個經濟部主管的相關的我們產業的金額相當比較小但是不是因為比較小我們就不重視"},{"start":264.469,"end":291.014,"text":"但是我要強調就是說這個前線跟我們後行後線的這個協調機制非常重要所以怎麼樣派更多的紅人到這段時間去美國啊來協助怎麼樣去跟川普政府做更多的政策的協調磋商也好因為90天之後他是暫緩90天90天之後還不知道是不是90天之後如期上路"},{"start":292.728,"end":312.982,"text":"還是會變 沒有人知道 只有川普知道但是我們做最壞的打算就是說如果九十天 三個月之後他要如期上路那我們還是要因應那九十天是黃金的九十天黃金的三個月你要把握這個時間去跟美國相關的部位包括他們農業部 包括他們的商務部包括跟白宮相關的經濟的閣員"},{"start":316.104,"end":329.78,"text":"有更多的溝通 更多的協調在90天之內有一個進展讓美國可以接受我們做相關的政策的調整包括我們加強對美國的投資也要讓他們知道說投資哪些項目加強對美國的這個購買"},{"start":332.847,"end":357.967,"text":"比方說對美國有哪些產品我們可以加強來對他們的購買來平衡對美國的貿易的這個順利差我們對他們的順差非常高所以因為順差高我們才被他認為是高關稅的國家嘛所以我們加強投資加強對美採購這個一定要在三十九十天之內確實到位"},{"start":359.298,"end":369.484,"text":"品相經得都要清楚 當然也包括其他部會 包括我想能源也算是進一步吧 對不對包括天然氣的採購啦 包括相關的農產品的採購 也當然包括國防"},{"start":376.861,"end":390.603,"text":"我覺得日本政府對這個因應我覺得還不錯從以前的這個歷任的這個這個首相對美國的貿易政策他們這個敏銳度非常高安倍"},{"start":392.56,"end":417.454,"text":"安倍首相他跟美國的只要說稍微跟美國對這個日本貿易的這個有一些意見的時候安倍他就馬上立刻放下身上去談判透過加強的這個採購來把這個貿易的順差把它降下來得到美國的這個信任然後美日關係又變成一個很準同盟的關係"},{"start":419.127,"end":446.666,"text":"另外一個極端例子就是這個中國中國對抗你看現在75國全部90天的暫緩對不對暫緩之後搞不好有這個談判的結果有談判的進度搞不好這些關稅又會再下降又會回到原來的水準所以我覺得這個是川普過去他的這個執政一貫的策略先用高壓高壓之後逼著你一定要去談判"},{"start":448.135,"end":471.008,"text":"談判之後有一個好的結果也當成共識當然對雙方都是好的對他的美國的國家利益也是好的對台灣也不見之不好對貿易的對手國也不見之不好所以我說剛剛說對內的三個變對外我們要積極怎麼樣把握這次黃金三個月去跟美國建立起磋商的機制談判的這個具體成果這個很重要"},{"start":472.411,"end":501.053,"text":"這個農業部有沒有相關的單位在美國我想農業部我們有農業組在那邊那其實特別是針對剛才委員所說的其實均能全權的貿易是非常重要的就是我們沒辦法依賴一個單一的國家所以我們在這一次的支持方案裡面我們其實也考慮到這個所以在這些相關的這些行銷面的部分除了美國市場以外我們也針對主要的目標市場也同步在啟動讓這些產品能夠有更多元的這些市場"},{"start":501.813,"end":518.108,"text":"劇本不是我們寫的劇本是川普寫的但是我們要有因應劇本的相關的戰略你要想想看他可能會有哪些劇本過去說有這個李登輝總統說他掌握18套劇本對不對你們要設想到每一個scenario可能對台灣的產業衝擊對農業衝擊"},{"start":521.462,"end":540.544,"text":"然後針對這些相關的影響我們去做對內的相關的協調也好或者是跟產業界座談也好對外要加強對這個溝通時間到了還有很多事情另外投資台灣三大方案這也是經濟部的業務"},{"start":542.358,"end":557.984,"text":"我們希望說這一波的產業結構的調整這些全球供應鏈的重新的重組我希望有更多的這個核心關鍵產業能夠回來台灣但回來台灣你這個三大方案再延長到2027年對不對 那個市長"},{"start":561.527,"end":580.885,"text":"這個部分我們已經有規劃了那院長也有表示那基本上我們會依照這個三大投資方案的這個部分就你剛剛所說的到2027的部分去做規劃這個如果這一波回來可能是關鍵的產業所以他們回來的中心反而是更高"},{"start":582.548,"end":596.66,"text":"重要性更高所以我認為經濟部門要提供更好的EOE讓這些產業類重組的過程中願意來台灣再來投資回來台灣投資所以各國的經貿政策一定是以他的國家利益為主"},{"start":597.648,"end":625.54,"text":"所以我們當然我們在規劃任何的這個經貿政策當然以台灣的國家利益為主產業政策的利益為主所以包括農民的利益為主我相信兩位包括陳部長包括剛剛郭部長也來還有賴市長我想這段時間執政團隊非常辛苦那我相信你們也做好準備只是說很多事情非超支在我們是超支在美方超支在川普政府但是我們這些所有劇本都要很清楚做盤點"},{"start":626.34,"end":627.802,"text":"那我也提醒財政部理事長"},{"start":633.826,"end":649.779,"text":"那個關稅啊 關稅你要怎麼利用這段時間做一些相關的全面盤點跟調整這個財政部有沒有相關的記錄因為關稅的調整主要還是要看這個產業主管機關他們對產業的這個影響評估啦那這部分財政部會來尊重主管機關評估的結果"},{"start":657.325,"end":669.631,"text":"那相關主管機關也要針對各個品項的關稅目前是到底合不合理到底造成的順差對美國的影響有多大這個應該去盤點只要說主管機關做出相關的建議財政部都願意做調整嗎"},{"start":674.913,"end":695.239,"text":"我們會經由這個主管機關做審慎評估因為他們會考量整個產業的這個發展還有就是會不會對台灣的就業造成影響或衝擊這個部分我們會尊重產業主管機關評估的意見我要特別謝謝史上這個最好的召委給我給我額外的幾分鐘謝謝你"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":883,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（12時39分）謝謝主席，有請經濟部賴次長，還有農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請次長跟部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：我想主要影響的是農業部跟經濟部，所以今天的主題是對我國農漁畜，以及關鍵產業競爭力的相關影響。當然川普是變動性的常態，常態是一個變動性，變動性的常態，也是常態變動性，就好像川劇變臉一樣，目不暇給，今天變成這樣，但是明天又換另外一種臉，彷彿川劇變臉，但是他的內心沒有變，我們不曉得他的真實臉孔在哪裡，但是他的內心就是讓美國再次偉大，他的核心是美國的這個國家利益，對不對？所以，基本上他是進攻型的現實主義者──主動出擊去爭取他的國家利益，對外又強勢逼迫；透過這種方式，我覺得他已經達到初步的目的，所以各國要怎麼樣去因應川普的關稅政策？","個人認為我國可以用不變應萬變的方式。什麼叫不變？第一、對內一定要強化這個產業的競爭力，你有競爭力，才有跟其他國家競爭的本錢，不管關稅怎麼調整，你有競爭力，就一定比其他國家更有機會，所以要不斷強化這個產業的競爭力。第二、我們的賴總統不是提到要均衡臺灣嗎？我們要均衡全球的貿易市場，不要把所有的市場都集中在特定國家，比方過去是集中在中國、美國，有一些是東協，但我覺得全球六大洲都是我們的主要市場，沒有分什麼次要市場，所以你要持續均衡全球貿易市場，強化對國際的行銷。另外，就是要透過這個時間，全面盤點當前農工相關產品的關稅政策，是不是有不合時宜？是不是有檢討的必要？這三個不變要持續推動，持續加強，這是對內的部分，是可操之在我們。","不可操之在我們的部分，是美國的這個關稅政策，剛剛提到川劇變臉，每天變動幾乎是一個常態，所以我們要如何強化跟主要貿易國家的這個協商機制，如何強化談判人員？請問賴次長，我們談判小組駐美經濟組的同仁有多少人？"],["賴次長建信：駐美經濟組我去過啊，他們的人還滿多的。"],["邱委員志偉：就18個人，不只是美國，還是整個北美，所以我告訴你要加強，就像行政院有跨部會的因應小組，本席希望經濟部也要組織跨局處的因應小組，包括國貿局，還有以前的工業局，現在的產發署等相關局處，跟我們駐美國經濟小組的同仁要保持密切的聯繫，讓前線跟後勤能夠馬上得到這個訊息，而且是無縫接軌。同樣的，農業部也要如此辦理，包括六項主要影響的農漁產品，這六項銷美的總金額是多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：目前這六項加起來，大概是五十二億。"],["邱委員志偉：是五十多億嘛！相較於經濟部主管相關產業的金額比較小，但也不是因為比較小，我們就不重視。我要強調的是，前線跟我們後勤、後線的這個協調機制非常重要，這段時間怎麼樣派更多的同仁去美國協助，如何跟川普政府做更多的政策協調、磋商？因為現在是暫緩九十天，九十天之後是不是如期上路，還是會變？沒有人知道，只有川普知道！但是我們要做最壞的打算，也就是九十天（三個月）之後，如果他要如期上路，我們還是要去因應。所以這九十天是黃金的九十天，黃金的三個月，我們要把握這個時間去跟美國相關的部會，包括他們的農業部、商務部，包括跟白宮相關的經濟閣員有更多的溝通，更多的協調，在九十天之內能有一個進展，讓美國可以接受我們做相關的政策調整，包括我們加強對美國的投資，也要讓他們知道是投資哪些項目；加強對美國的購買，比方對美國的哪些產品，我們可以加強購買，來平衡對美國的貿易順逆差。我們對他們的順差非常高，因為順差高，我們才會被他們列高關稅的國家，所以我們加強投資、加強對美採購，一定要在九十天之內確實到位；品項、金額都要清楚，當然也包括其他部會。我想能源部分也是在經濟部嘛，對不對？包括天然氣的採購、包括農產品的採購、當然也包括國防啦！","我覺得日本政府對這個部分的因應還不錯，歷任首相對美國的貿易政策，他們的敏銳度都非常高，像安倍首相，只要美國對日本的貿易稍微有一些意見的時候，安倍發現順差就馬上去跟美國談判，透過加強採購來把這個貿易順差降下來，得到美國的信任，然後美日又變成一個準同盟的關係。另外一個極端的例子就是中國的對抗，你看現在75國全部有九十天的暫緩，暫緩之後，有了這個談判的結果、談判的進度，搞不好這些關稅又會再下降，又會回到原來的水準。","所以我覺得這個是川普執政一貫的策略，先用高壓，高壓之後，逼著你一定要去談判，談判之後有一個好的結果，有達成共識，當然對雙方都是好的，對美國的國家利益也是好的，對臺灣也不見得不好，對貿易的對手國也不見得不好。所以我剛剛說對內的三個不變，對外我們要積極，怎麼樣把握這黃金的三個月，跟美國建立起磋商機制、談判的具體成果，這個很重要。農業部有沒有相關的單位在在美國？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部的部分，我們有農業組在那邊。特別是針對委員剛才所說的，均衡全球的貿易是非常重要的，我們沒有辦法倚賴單一國家，所以我們在這一次的支持方案裡面，其實也考慮到這個，在相關的行銷面部分，除了美國市場以外，我們也針對主要的目標市場同步啟動，讓這些產品能夠有更多元的市場。"],["邱委員志偉：劇本不是我們寫的，劇本是川普寫的，但是我們要有因應劇本的相關戰略！你要想想看，他可能會有哪些劇本？過去在李登輝總統的時候，他掌握十八套劇本，所以你們要設想每一個scenario可能對臺灣的產業衝擊，對農業的衝擊，針對這些相關的影響，我們對內去做相關的協調，或是跟產業界座談；對外要加強溝通。另外，投資臺灣三大方案也是經濟部的業務。"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["邱委員志偉：我們希望這一波產業結構的調整，全球供應鏈重新的重組，能夠有更多的核心關鍵產業回來臺灣，但回來臺灣之後，次長，你的這個三大方案是延長到2027年，對不對？"],["賴次長建信：這個部分我們已經有規劃，院長也有表示。基本上，我們會依照三大投資方案的這個部分，就是你現在所說到2027的部分去規劃。"],["邱委員志偉：這一波回來的可能是關鍵產業，那麼他們回來的重要性反而更高，所以我認為經濟部要提供更好的誘因，讓這些產業鏈在重組的過程中，願意再回來臺灣投資。當然各國的經貿政策一定是以他的國家利益為主，我們在規劃任何的經貿政策時，當然也是以臺灣的國家利益為主，產業政策的利益為主，還包括農漁民的利益為主。包括陳部長，剛剛郭部長也有來，還有賴次長，執政團隊在這段時間非常辛苦，我相信你們也做好準備，只是很多事情非操之在我們，而是操之在美方，操之在川普政府，我們對所有劇本都要很清楚地盤點；也要提醒財政部李次長，針對關稅部分，你要怎麼利用這段時間，做一些相關的、全面性的盤點跟調整，財政部有沒有相關的計畫？"],["李次長慶華：這部分我們會來因應，因為關稅的調整，主要還是要看產業主管機關對產業的影響評估，財政部尊重主管機關評估的結果。"],["邱委員志偉：財政部會尊重主管機關，但相關主管機關也要針對各個品項的關稅，目前到底合不合理，它所造成的順差對美國的影響有多大，這個也應該去盤點……"],["李次長慶華：是，這個部分我們有配合……"],["邱委員志偉：只要主管機關做出相關的這些建議，財政部都願意調整嗎？"],["李次長慶華：我們會經由這個主管機關審慎評估，因為他們會考量整個產業的發展，還有會不會對臺灣的就業造成影響或衝擊。對這個部分，我們會尊重產業主管機關評估的意見。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。我要特別謝謝史上最好的召委，給我額外的幾分鐘，謝謝你。"],["主席：登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員徐欣瑩、謝衣鳯所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-8","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","陳超明","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","羅美玲","李坤城","許宇甄","葉元之","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長及財政部首長就「因應美國關稅政策以維持我國農漁畜業及關鍵產\n業競爭力之協助措施」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}