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堆加我們整個產業受損受困的這個狀況"},{"start":116.01,"end":143.26,"text":"所以我們延了一天就是把整個支持方案升級之後才向國能做報告表示我們是有準備但隨著情勢是機動性在調整對我問的是你的目標是什麼未來那都已經過去的但是你未來我們談判的整體的目標是什麼以及怎麼樣子減少對台灣產業的衝擊是不是終極的目標就是爭取國家最大的利益維持產業的國際競爭力"},{"start":144.861,"end":172.903,"text":"那對於國家最大的利益不是關稅嗎我們希望關稅能夠比韓國比日本還要低啊這是我們主要競爭的國家嘛 是不是是關稅的比較不是直接面對面而是跟我們鄰近競爭對手的比較那這是大家會心裡產業有相關的競爭性的嘛 是不是那這次大家心裡壓力大是因為包括韓國包括日本都比我們低啊所以大家的心裡壓力就會大我們期待"},{"start":173.462,"end":189.243,"text":"透過合理的談判之後我們能夠爭取到公平的關稅待遇我當然知道要透過談判那我是說你有沒有設定我們有沒有機會比日本比韓國低我們在努力就是這個方向"},{"start":190.624,"end":208.846,"text":"有沒有 你要有信心啊每個國家都死書渾身解數啊你都沒信心了當然對我們的談判代表有信心對談判代表有信心是不是那你明天就要去彰化了我要問你的是"},{"start":209.767,"end":237.118,"text":"對於行政院所提出的880億那我們去跟產業談那當然希望能夠直接的協助產業嘛那對於明天要協助的產業像優惠的貸款部分我想要請問喔就是對於傳產以及中小微創產業我們的優惠利率要不要解碼我們有解碼檢集碼"},{"start":239.233,"end":245.887,"text":"來我來看看因為這個數字我來看看優惠的利率我們在金融支持方面優惠的利率"},{"start":250.131,"end":263.583,"text":"那我看一下好在這裡我們這個中小微企業的貸款的加碼是有的我們變略的預算是50億貸款的額度最高可以到350 3500萬我是說出口的部分140億2000的2000億的貸款額度那我說你的利息優惠減碼減碼是多少2.22這個是"},{"start":277.615,"end":290.88,"text":"標準在計算我們貸款在250萬內的會減補貼1.51.5碼嗎是不是財政部長這個是這個部分我們好多部分都有金融支持是不是降低1.5碼跟委員報告我們對於出口廠商他的貿易融資我們是以2000億這樣的一個融資規模讓"},{"start":300.763,"end":318.489,"text":"出口廠商在貿易融資的時候我們的利率是減1%也就是說他如果跟銀行貸款的利率是2%的話那我們就讓他減1%那他只要付1%的利率那如果說他的產他受的衝擊更大的話"},{"start":319.429,"end":347.397,"text":"那單一廠商可以申請優惠貸款的最高額度是多少他一年最高可以減少利息到600萬好剛才院長所提到的中小微創是50億對於中小微創的貸款的申請是50億那對於他們的轉型升級的貸款會不會利息也減嗎"},{"start":348.663,"end":354.545,"text":"中小微有啊會不會中小微剛剛我們減1.5% 貸款在250萬以內的會減嘛 也會減嘛是不是貸款的部分會減啦但是我們個案補助都到500萬如果是產業聯盟可以到4000萬"},{"start":370.039,"end":392.691,"text":"這個是對研發轉型的補助就是剛才我想委員在說明的這個部分還有過去對於傳產或者中小微等等的在紓困的期間的貸款那他們在申請貸款的時候都由信保基金來做擔保那最高的成數是八成"},{"start":394.025,"end":421.547,"text":"未來會不會提高在這一次的情況下我們有沒有預期要提高信保基金擔保成數到我們到95%了有嗎有會到95%是不是會再更高是不是對對好那希望我們能夠用最大的誠意來協助企業可以嗎"},{"start":423.749,"end":445.348,"text":"還有一項就是過去在紓困貸款的時候對於受信業人員就是銀行的受信人員我們要不要解除他除了有重大的行政疏失以外我們要不要解除他們的行政責任"},{"start":447.557,"end":471.794,"text":"要不要委員提的這個部分也就是行員很介意的就是他的財務的責任的部分我想這個部分其實那個時候就已經讓他可以不要受這個部分的財務責任會不會比照我想這一次我們都是從速從寬從優來說那對於這個行員他們並沒有任何違背任何法令但是因為廠商的衝擊他產業的一些影響的話當然在財務責任上我們應該給予豁免"},{"start":473.055,"end":497.008,"text":"還有行政責任跟財務責任這是過去我們在紓困的時候我們對於產業紓困的時候這第20條我們都有免除這些行員在受信的時候這些除了重大的疏失以外要免除他們的財務以及行政責任是不是剛剛部長答覆的是這樣因為他不是自己"},{"start":502.133,"end":516.306,"text":"任何個人故意的行為是不是因為你在紓困的期間為了重塑、重寬、重減嘛那是不是要免除這些受信人員的這樣子的行政跟財務責任會不會列進去"},{"start":517.977,"end":538.826,"text":"這個部分我想我們會一起跟今晚會一起來把它放到讓行業們了解這一塊好還有過去我們也是在疫情期間對於非常多的企業他們放無薪假對於企業放無薪假的勞工我們也要不要比照辦理給予薪資補貼"},{"start":540.959,"end":549.549,"text":"這個部分誰可以回答有安定基金嘛誰可以回答我們在勞工安定就業的這個措施裡面就有薪資的補貼"},{"start":550.8,"end":577.881,"text":"會不會也要比照過去COVID的時候這樣子的我們確實有規劃就是針對如果放應該是委員的意思應該是減班休息啦在減班的休息的時候我們有規劃包括薪資補貼或者是一些訓練上面的補貼來去彌補勞工可能如果在遇到減班休息上面的時候他薪資上面的就是收入上面的衝擊跟影響目前是有規劃的"},{"start":578.601,"end":589.751,"text":"好 最後我想要請教的就是我們央行的楊總裁因為畢竟這是關稅的手段未來"},{"start":591.451,"end":617.399,"text":"在我們現在所了解的就是川普總統的首席經濟顧問米倫他的這個海福莊園協議裡面關稅手段只是第一步接下來他希望的是美元可以貶值那如果美元貶值對於依賴出口的台灣產業"},{"start":619.5,"end":641.427,"text":"你認為會造成多大的影響以及它的美元貶值這個貨幣的手段有沒有可能成功我跟委員報告就是說事實上匯率是由市場決定的不是說美國說它美元要貶值就貶值"},{"start":642.079,"end":664.212,"text":"我知道那他是市場決定的啊他是市場決定所以呢美元呢就長期來看的話呢他有升值的時候他也有貶值的時候所以呢也就是說市場決定的一個價位他你很難是說用人為的一個方式讓他就說要不讓他貶值就貶值因為是市場來決定長期來講的話他是由市場來決定"},{"start":667.838,"end":681.928,"text":"對那如果美元貶值因為現在目前很多的廠商都也希望台幣可以貶是不是對於我們的出口才有利因為廠商我跟委員報告就是說我們的外匯市場"},{"start":683.889,"end":708.889,"text":"我們的外匯市場它的參與者不是只有我們的廠商還有包括很多的外資外資也是還有包括我們旅遊的人這些都是參與者所以也不是說只有廠商所以也就是說外匯市場所決定的是一個供需來決定的它是一個市場價格"},{"start":710.246,"end":733.004,"text":"也不是說是由誰來決定它的匯率所以你認為米倫他所說的重塑這個全球的貿易體系當然他是以美元為出發點以美債這樣子的一個出發點那這個情況下我們未來國內的廠商要怎麼因應"},{"start":734.435,"end":759.097,"text":"那當然就是說 廠商第一個就是說他要有避險的這個第一個那第二個呢 專業銀行要盡我們的力量因為市場如果說是他波動得太大的時候呢專業銀行會去做某些的調節讓他的那個波動度不要太大"},{"start":759.918,"end":764.124,"text":"那就是這樣子第一個要避嫌第二個中央銀行能夠讓這個匯率能夠動態穩定就是這樣子"},{"start":768.582,"end":790.235,"text":"那你有沒有信心維持我們的匯率穩定當然有信心因為這個是全球的我們就說了美元的參與者不只有台灣而已是不是這是全球的長期以來我們新台幣都非常穩定的動態穩定所以這個對進出口廠商都是很好的"},{"start":790.854,"end":816.916,"text":"所以你有信心可以維持台幣的穩定是沒有問題那所以明天我們院長去彰化的時候可以告訴所有的廠商台幣會穩定不用擔心我們匯率的問題那會不會把相關的避險的相關的這樣子的方式也會一併的告訴廠商讓小廠商也了解"},{"start":817.856,"end":843.951,"text":"基本上就是說銀行都是有這些的避險工具所以這些中小企業他都可以利用的就是會不會院長會不會把順便能夠告訴我們中小企業能夠對於未來整體這個美元經濟的這個風險性以及美國現在在重塑"},{"start":845.052,"end":862.495,"text":"所謂的全球的貿易系統那這個部分是不是能夠也一併的告訴中小企業讓廠商有因應的能力以及對於下一波的這有可能的風險我們也能夠事先的控管"},{"start":863.286,"end":879.04,"text":"報告委員 我大概可以跟業界說的是我們的匯率 台幣匯率長期以來是呈現穩定的趨勢那國家的經濟的體質本質上是健全的所以在這個方面讓它繼續呈現穩定的趨勢因為我們應該可以看得到"},{"start":879.801,"end":894.308,"text":"我只能說這樣子我並沒有一句話就說台幣要不要這個我也不是連總裁都沒辦法說我當然要請總裁說這個你可能也沒辦法講總裁也沒辦法講總裁可能要拿出最大的努力來謝謝大家謝謝謝謝委員的支持謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1275,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（17時32分）謝謝副院長，我想要請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我相信這一次美國對等關稅的政策，即便現在已經延長90天，我想不只有對臺灣，對於所有我們的競爭對手或者是我們其他周邊的國家而言，都是非常重大的一個議題，你認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：未來我們即將要和美方談判，你有沒有信心？你有沒有信心為臺灣爭取最大的一個目標？你的目標是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們從去年成立經濟外交工作小組，所鎖定的就是未來整個世界經貿情勢、秩序的大變動，去年11月又成立了臺美經貿專案小組，就是準備在當美國政策又發生大的改變的時候，我們能夠在最短的時間內調適回來，所以這個準備是長期的，其中包括對美的採購、對美的投資，以及現在因應這個關稅的變化，這個都是在預期當中可能發生的。但我們一定要等到情勢具體出來一些，我們會做適度的研判分析以及整個設算，像這次關稅就是這樣，為什麼我們4月3號沒有辦法在第一時間說明？因為4月3號時我們算的試算是在10%到20%、20%到30%，結果它跑到32%，那就不是算術等級的，必須往上堆加整個產業受損、受困的狀況，所以我們延了一天，就是把整個支持方案升級之後才向國人報告，表示我們是有準備，但隨著情勢是機動性在調整。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我問的是未來你的目標是什麼？那都已經是過去的，但是未來我們談判的整體的目標是什麼？以及怎麼樣減少對臺灣產業的衝擊？"],["卓院長榮泰：終極的目標就是爭取國家最大的利益，維持產業的國際競爭力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對於國家最大的利益不是關稅嗎？我們希望關稅能夠比韓國、比日本還要低，這是我們主要競爭的國家嘛，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：關稅的比較不是直接面對面，而是跟我們鄰近的競爭對手比較，這次大家會心裡……"],["謝委員衣鳯：跟我們產業有相關競爭性的嘛，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，這次大家心裡壓力大，是因為包括韓國、包括日本都比我們低，所以大家的心裡壓力就會大，我們期待透過合理的談判之後，我們能夠爭取到公平的關稅待遇。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我當然知道要透過談判，我是說你有沒有設定目標？我們有沒有機會比日本、比韓國低？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在努力的就是這個方向。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有沒有？你要有信心啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：每個國家都使出渾身解數，我們也是這樣子。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要有信心啊！你都沒信心了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然對我們的談判代表有信心，談判的過程我們會掌握。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對談判代表有信心是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你明天就要去彰化了，我要問你的是，對於行政院所提出的880億，我們去跟產業談，當然希望能夠直接的協助產業。對於明天要協助的產業，像優惠貸款的部分，我想要請問，對於傳產以及中小微創產業，我們的優惠利率要不要減碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有減碼。"],["謝委員衣鳯：減幾碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我來看看，我們在金融支持方面的優惠利率，中小微企業貸款的加碼是有的，我們編列的預算是50億，貸款額度最高可以到3,500萬，利率……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是，我是說出口的部分140億，2,000億的貸款額度，我是問你的利息優惠是減碼多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的年利率是2.22，這個是依標準在計算，貸款在250萬內的，我們會補貼1.5。"],["謝委員衣鳯：1.5碼嗎？財政部長，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，是這個部分，我們好多部分都有金融支持，我講的是中小微企業的部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：莊部長，是不是降低1.5碼？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，對於出口廠商的貿易融資，我們是以2,000億這樣的融資規模讓出口廠商在貿易融資的時候，我們的利率是減1%。也就是說，他如果跟銀行貸款的利率是2%的話，我們就讓他減1%，他只要付1%的利率，另外就……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那就減4碼，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，如果他受的衝擊更大的話，可以減1%……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那單一廠商可以申請優惠貸款的最高額度是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：他一年最高可以減少利息到600萬。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。剛才院長提到對於中小微創貸款的申請是50億，那對於他們轉型升級的貸款利息會不會也減碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：中小微有啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：中小微的部分，剛剛我跟委員報告過，貸款在250萬以內的就會減1.5%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：也會減碼是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：貸款的部分會減，但是我們的個案補助都到500萬，如果是產業聯盟可以到4,000萬，這個是對研發轉型的補助，就是剛才委員在說明的這個部分，我們對中小微就有這樣一個機制。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。還有過去對於傳產或者中小微等等在紓困期間的貸款，他們在申請貸款的時候都由信保基金做擔保，最高的成數是八成，未來會不會提高？在這一次的情況下，我們有沒有預期要提高信保基金的擔保成數？"],["郭部長智輝：我們到95%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有嗎？會到95%是不是？會再更高是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，希望我們能夠用最大的誠意來協助企業，可以嗎？還有一項，就是過去在紓困貸款的時候，對於銀行的授信人員，除了有重大的行政疏失以外，我們要不要解除他們的行政責任？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員提的這個部分，也就是行員很介意的財務責任，我想其實那個時候就已經可以讓他不要受這個部分的財務責任。"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會比照？"],["莊部長翠雲：這一次我們都是從速、從寬、從優，對於行員，他們並沒有違背任何法令，而是因為廠商受產業的一些影響、衝擊，當然在財務責任上，我們應該給予豁免。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有行政責任跟財務責任。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，一樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去我們對於產業紓困的時候，第二十條都有免除，即這些行員在授信的時候，除了重大的疏失以外，要免除他們的財務以及行政責任，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長答復的是這樣，因為不是任何個人自己故意的行為疏失，而是受到大環境的影響。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，因為在紓困的期間，為了從速、從寬、從簡，那是不是要免除這些授信人員這樣的行政跟財務責任？會不會列進去？"],["莊部長翠雲：針對這個部分，我們會跟金管會一起把它放到裡面，讓行員們了解這一塊。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有過去也是在疫情期間，有非常多企業放無薪假，對於企業放無薪假的勞工，我們要不要比照辦理，給予薪資補貼？這個部分誰可以回答？"],["郭部長智輝：有安定基金。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在勞工安定就業措施裡面，就有薪資的補貼。"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會也要比照過去COVID的時候？"],["洪部長申翰：我們確實有規劃，就是針對委員的意思應該是減班休息，在減班休息的時候，我們有規劃包括薪資補貼或者是一些訓練上面的補貼，彌補勞工如果遇到減班休息的時候，收入上面的衝擊跟影響，目前是有規劃的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：最後，我想要請教央行楊總裁，畢竟這是關稅的手段，我們現在所了解的是，川普總統的首席經濟顧問米倫表示在海湖莊園協議裡面，關稅手段只是第一步，接下來他希望的是美元可以貶值，如果美元貶值，對於依賴出口的臺灣產業，你認為會造成多大的影響？以及他的這個美元貶值貨幣手段有沒有可能成功？"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，匯率是由市場決定的，不是美國說美元要貶值就貶值。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道。"],["楊總裁金龍：它是市場決定的，所以美元就長期來看，有升值的時候，也有貶值的時候，也就是市場決定價位，很難用人為的方式讓它要貶值就貶值，因為是市場來決定。長期來講的話，它是由市場來決定。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。如果美元貶值，因為目前很多廠商都希望臺幣可以貶，是不是？對於我們的出口才有利！"],["楊總裁金龍：不。因為廠商……我們的外匯市場……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這跟美國的目標是不同就對了？"],["楊總裁金龍：不。我們的外匯市場參與者不是只有我們的廠商，還包括很多的外資，也包括旅遊的人，這些都是參與者，所以不是只有廠商。也就是外匯市場是供需來決定的，它是一個市場價格，不是由誰來決定它的匯率。"],["謝委員衣鳯：米倫所說的重塑全球貿易體系，當然是以美元、美債為出發點，在這個情況下，你認為未來國內的廠商要怎麼因應？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然，第一個就是廠商要避險，這是第一個。第二個，中央銀行要盡我們的力量，市場如果波動太大的時候，中央銀行會去做某些調節，讓它的波動度不要太大，就是這樣子，第一個要避險，第二個中央銀行讓匯率能夠動態穩定，就是這樣子。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，那你有沒有信心？你有沒有信心維持我們的匯率穩定？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然有信心。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為這個是全球的嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們就說了，美元的參與者不只有臺灣而已，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是全球的……"],["楊總裁金龍：是，長期以來我們新臺幣都非常穩定、動態穩定，這個對進出口廠商都是很好的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你有信心……"],["楊總裁金龍：有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可以維持臺幣的穩定？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以明天院長去彰化的時候，可以告訴所有的廠商，臺幣會穩定，不用擔心匯率的問題，你會不會把相關避險的方式也一併告訴廠商，讓小廠商也了解？"],["楊總裁金龍：基本上，銀行都是有這些避險的工具，所以這些中小企業都可以利用的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，院長，會不會順便告訴我們中小企業，對於未來整體美元經濟的風險性以及美國現在在重塑所謂的全球貿易系統，這個部分是不是能夠也一併地告訴中小企業，讓廠商有因應的能力，以及對於下一波有可能的風險，我們也能夠事先的控管？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我大概可以跟業界說的是，我們的臺幣匯率長期以來是呈現穩定的趨勢，國家的經濟體質本質上是健全的，所以在這個方面讓它繼續呈現穩定的趨勢，我們應該可以看得到，我只能說這樣子，我並不能一句話就說臺幣要、不要，我想連總裁都無法說出這種話。"],["謝委員衣鳯：沒有，我當然要請總裁說，這個你可能也沒辦法講……"],["卓院長榮泰：總裁也沒辦法講。"],["謝委員衣鳯：總裁可能要拿出最大的努力來。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，謝謝委員的鼓勵。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝大家，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的支持，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員、謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。作以下之決定：一、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。二、已提出之書面質詢，尚未登載公報者，一律補刊。","4月15日星期二上午9時繼續開會，進行施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢，現在休息。","休息（17時48分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":13,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-11"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1143401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}