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弊案,基本上不管是幾十億、幾百億甚至幾千億,他也不在乎。"},{"start":2366.052,"end":2393.565,"text":"然後告訴你說不行警察消防人員我們的空中海巡移民的危險勤務人員不行一年多花20億你們憑什麼我要告訴大家昨天我在司法法治委員會看了很痛心啊我們的警消人員你知道嗎平均的壽命比一般的民眾要少6歲"},{"start":2395.506,"end":2424.667,"text":"多少的人在槍戰當中與命多少人在火場當中與命每次只要有警消人員犧牲生命的時候你看到官員出來就開始出來公祭了今天公祭明天就忘記接下來連所謂的警消我們的退休人員的待遇他跟你講一年二十億太多了不可以你們配不上"},{"start":2426.311,"end":2450.299,"text":"昨天全程在直播我相信所有的我們的警察、消防、海巡、移民以及空中的危險勤務的人員你們眼睛應該都看得清清楚楚誰一路捍衛我們危險勤務人員的未來的待遇昨天有警察告訴我說謝謝羅志強我說不用謝我是我們要謝謝你們謝謝所有的警察同仁"},{"start":2456.471,"end":2460.053,"text":"主席各位官員各位委員各位媒體朋友大家早安本席今天想質疑的是臺北101大樓五年就可以蓋好但是我們的國會改革法案卻八年寫不出來"},{"start":2485.23,"end":2506.468,"text":"國會改革是一個讓陽光照進國會重要而且攸關人民權益的事情。但是從2015年蔡英文前總統提出改革方案歷經8年全面執政到她卸任後毫無動靜。不知道是民進黨忘記了承諾還是想不起來呢?"},{"start":2507.689,"end":2530.364,"text":"現在竟然有執政黨的立委上節目辯解說8年都沒有推動改革是因為法案太難所以寫不出來先不論這次國會改革法案的核心價值跟內容架構早在2012年也就是12年前由我們民進黨的林佳龍立委所提出"},{"start":2531.084,"end":2546.758,"text":"我們來看看世界上其他重要的事情都花多少時間完成以下資料也是參考網友整理非常感謝網友如此關心臺灣民主首先讓世界看到臺灣的臺北1011999年動工2004年完工開幕"},{"start":2554.224,"end":2579.076,"text":"歷時5年4個月臺灣第一條捷運木柵線自1988年動工1996年啟用歷時7年6個月還有世界上其他的重大事件由愛因斯坦提出的廣義相對論1907年發想1915年就發表出來花了8年發表影響全世界的理論"},{"start":2580.217,"end":2598.439,"text":"第一代的iPhone2004年研發2007年完成也才花了三年時間2016年iPhone7到今年已經iPhone15都出幾代了結果執政黨說國會改革法案太難寫不出來"},{"start":2599.6,"end":2614.369,"text":"回到臺灣執政黨全面8年執政8年的時間啊臺灣黑熊最多都可以生出三代黑熊寶寶可以當黑熊阿公了可是法案還是寫不出來"},{"start":2615.37,"end":2632.226,"text":"直到最後呢我們終於寫出了執政黨的修正動議可是當其他兩黨要支持的時候民進黨又舉手反對了所以我們到底要給民進黨多少時間才能完成國會改革呢?"},{"start":2633.729,"end":2637.492,"text":"謝謝陳金威委員的發言。接下來請登記第五位麥玉珍委員發言。"},{"start":2679.947,"end":2679.967,"text":"啊﹖"},{"start":2680.863,"end":2684.546,"text":"兩位院長好,各位親愛的家人,大家早安。"},{"start":2710.803,"end":2735.641,"text":"邀請了多位委員、專家、學者以及新住民的團體共同商議強化新住民權益保障義務。這段時間我們所做的所有的努力都是為了推動新住民基本法、立法的進程創造機會、栽培人才、留住人才、建立平台"},{"start":2737.432,"end":2764.559,"text":"復國立民讓新住民有機會為臺灣貢獻及服務。從106年開始就有委員陸續的提出新住民基本法草案但很可惜多數只停留在一睹後續這不了了之。在6月12日非常的感謝我們最敬愛的高進素梅召委"},{"start":2765.399,"end":2788.996,"text":"立庭以及內政部委員會所有的委員們,如此重視我們臺灣新住民的權益及利物,積極地排案審查,不分黨派,匯集草野公事,在第11屆的第1會期就讓新住民基本法草案等"},{"start":2789.896,"end":2801.407,"text":"案並案審查完畢成功送出委員會在並案審查送三讀事實證明只要有"},{"start":2802.83,"end":2821.358,"text":"破釜沉舟的執行力和堅持的理念。科文哲主席說的政治的核心是執行力,認真做對的事,中人的智慧勝過一個人的智慧。"},{"start":2822.318,"end":2822.338,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":2837.441,"end":2863.621,"text":"成立行政院新住民專責機構推動新住民教育、文化、語言、就業、關懷照顧以及公共參與等各項政策。期望能夠真正實現對新住民權利的支持讓我們出一份力量。希望朝野協商"},{"start":2881.206,"end":2883.188,"text":"謝謝麥議員的發言。報告委員會現在登記。國是論壇的發言委員均已發言完畢。我們現在休息。"},{"start":3977.892,"end":3980.589,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":5428.94,"end":5441.795,"text":"發言會現在我們繼續開會請秘書長報告出席人數。報告議員會出席委員39人已足法定人數。我們現在開會先處理朝野黨團協商結論請議事人員宣讀。"},{"start":5444.895,"end":5464.313,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年6月13日星期四上午9時地點一場三樓會議室決定事項一各黨團同意定於6月19日星期三及20日星期四召開全院委員會審查行政院所提對立法院職權行事法部分條文及"},{"start":5465.174,"end":5479.76,"text":"中華民國新法徵定第五章之一章明及第141條之一條文字附議案審查時,邀請行政院院長列席說明。各自分別由國民黨黨團推派11人、民進黨黨團推派11人、臺灣民眾黨黨團推派2人進行詢答。每位委員詢答時間為10分鐘。"},{"start":5487.923,"end":5505.83,"text":"尋答順序依例授權議事處辦理。明單請於6月18日星期二中午12時前送交議事處會診。預期適同放棄。二、上四午復議案定於6月21日星期五上午報告事項處理完畢進行記名投票表決。"},{"start":5506.77,"end":5533.458,"text":"二案分別為二張票,同時投票,並由各黨團推派一人擔任投開票監察員。區域相關投票事務工作依例授權依次處辦理。當日會議不進行施政方針報告質詢。主持人韓國瑜江啟臣。協商代表傅坤祺、洪孟凱、林思敏、柯建銘、吳思堯、鍾岳雄、黃國昌、吳春成、黃珊珊。宣讀完畢。請問院會對以上朝野協商結論有異議。"},{"start":5536.24,"end":5558.719,"text":"沒有異議我們通過。我們現在113年6月13日朝野黨團協商結論經決定如下。一、各黨團同意於6月19日星期三及20日星期四召開全院委員會審查行政院所提對立法院職權新設法部分條文及中華民國刑法增訂第五章之一章名及第141條之一條文之附議案。"},{"start":5561.241,"end":5568.251,"text":"審查時,邀請行政院院長列席說明。各自分別由國民黨團推派11位、民黨團推派11位、臺灣民眾黨黨團推派2位進行詢答。"},{"start":5573.322,"end":5599.936,"text":"每位委員尋答時間為10分鐘,尋答順序依例授權議事處辦理。明單請於6月18日星期二中午12點前送議事處會診,預期視同放棄。二、上述附議案於6月21日星期五上午報告事項處理完畢,進行記名投票表決。兩案分別為兩張票,同時投票,並由各黨團推派一人擔任投開票監察員。"},{"start":5601.076,"end":5611.148,"text":"其餘相關投票事務工作依例授權議事處辦理。當日會議不進行施政方針報告質詢。報言會,現在我們進行報告事項。請議事長宣讀第一會期第17次會議。"},{"start":5617.87,"end":5627.017,"text":"宣讀立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議．事由．時間中華民國113年6月7日上午9時1分至9時26分時時至10時26分下午2時30分至5時3分6月11日上午9時至10時24分下午2時30分至5時7分"},{"start":5639.946,"end":5641.127,"text":"．第11屆第1會期第16次會議．事由．決定．"},{"start":5662.578,"end":5680.327,"text":"第2至7、9至48、51至224案均決定交互相關委員會審查或交互相關委員會。第8案決定退為程序委員會重新提出。第49、50案均決定進戶報讀與相關提案並按協商。第225至228案為教育及文化委員會"},{"start":5688.33,"end":5701.563,"text":"等所提示報告案。質詢事項甲﹚行政院答案部分兩件﹚與本院委員執行部分兩件﹚對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢﹚決定﹚下次會議繼續進行施政方針報告之質詢﹚討論事項第一案決議並定期處理。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5707.694,"end":5708.054,"text":"報告施政院院長"},{"start":5723.905,"end":5751.479,"text":"第二案,行政院行為本院三讀通過修正立法院職權行事法部分條文,經研議全案確屬之案難行,依憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定,以請本院復議案。第三案,行政院行為本院三讀通過增定中華民國刑法第五章之一章名,及第141條之一條文,經研議確屬之案難行,依憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定,以請本院復議案。"},{"start":5752.459,"end":5780.82,"text":"第四案,總統府秘書長橫維本院通過修正立法院職權行使法部分條文,增定中華民國刑法第五章之一章名及第141條之一條文自請總統公佈案,經行政院研議以其確屬治案難行,以依憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定,陳奉總統合可以起本院復議案。陳秀園會見。以上三案你請院會交求院務委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5781.42,"end":5804.839,"text":"報言會以上三案經黨團協商結論決定於6月19至20日召開全院委員會審查。審查時,邀請行政院院長列席說明。6月21日上午報告事項處理完畢,進行記名投票表決。請宣讀第五案。第五案,北陸原羅志祥的16位鄰居住宅法第25條的吳修正才完請審議案。陳修緣會見你請回交內政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5809.636,"end":5813.317,"text":"五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案"},{"start":5836.411,"end":5838.212,"text":"第八案．第九案．第九案．"},{"start":5859.464,"end":5873.633,"text":"第十案,本月5月馬文君的18日連續計劃變遷因應法第四條條文修正草案請審議案,請學員會見,您請會教社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、財政、內政、交通、教育及文化令委員會審查,宣言完畢。"},{"start":5875.074,"end":5888.909,"text":"第11案 本院委員會由馬文君等19人聯聚。相信障礙者權益保障法第30條之一。第50條及第52條條文修正財務情緒一案。陳學員會見理情和教育社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。需讀完畢。"},{"start":5890.37,"end":5915.01,"text":"第12案,本院委員陳昭明等18人鄰居,加持型及非加持型營業稅法第8條條文修正財管侵稅一案。陳秀園會計理請回交財政委員會審查,宣言完畢。第13案,本院委員陳昭明等16人鄰居,選民健康保險法第48條條文修正財管侵稅一案。陳秀園會計理請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣言完畢。"},{"start":5916.651,"end":5925.959,"text":"第14案．委員陳昌明的17案．據《專業保險法》第10條、第11條及第19條之3條維修正常案請誰案．持續委員會見理情會交、社會福利及外交環境委員會審查．宣布完畢。第15案．委員吳曉琳的24案．理據衛星廣播電視法部分條維修正常案請誰案．持續委員會見理情會交、交通委員會審查．宣布完畢。"},{"start":5943.254,"end":5945.416,"text":"第16案：第17案：無意通過下案"},{"start":5967.572,"end":5990.013,"text":"第18案,委員員林怡瑾等21人離去,通訊保障及監察法部分條維修政策請申案。請求委員會建議請回交司法及法律委員會審查。宣布完畢。報告委員會,報告事項第18案,現由民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀,與相關提案並案協商,請問委員會有無異議?沒有異議,通過下一案。"},{"start":5990.646,"end":6011.361,"text":"第十九案,委員委員林怡瑾的20人離聚,習堅防治法修正採訪情緒案,請衆議院會見理情會交司法及法治委員會審查,宣言完畢。報告事項第十九案,現有民進黨黨團提禁服二讀與相關提案併案協商,請問院會有異議?沒有異議,通過下議案。"},{"start":6011.874,"end":6038.121,"text":"第二十二．委員．一、等二十人．具．平等工作法部門條文修正財運情緒二．財修委員會見．請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查．宣傳必．第二十一案．委員．陳培宇．等二十人．具．運動產業發展條例整理第七條之一、第七條之二．第七條之三條文財運情緒二．財修委員會見．請回交教育局文化委員會審查．宣傳必．"},{"start":6039.341,"end":6064.86,"text":"第二十二案,本院委員盧憲怡等二十人離聚,老人福利法第二條第九條及第二十二條的維修正常勤申案,陳修緣會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣布完畢。第二十三案,本院委員邱月華等二十人離聚,社會救助法部分條維修正常勤申案,陳修緣會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣布完畢。第二十三案,本院委員邱月華等二十人離聚,社會救助法部分條維修正常勤申案,陳修緣會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環"},{"start":6065.28,"end":6088.371,"text":"第24案、本院委員蔡英瑜等16人聯聚、銀行法第125條及第125條之4條維修證草案請審議案。﹐財政委員會見、立行會交、財政委員會審查﹐宣布完畢。第25案、本院委員蔡英瑜等16人聯聚、科技宣查及保障法草案請審議案。﹐財政委員會見、立行會交、司法及法律委員會審查﹐宣布完畢。"},{"start":6089.071,"end":6117.332,"text":"報告委員會報告事項第25案,現有民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商,請問委員會有無異議。面議通過下議案。第26案,委員會參與短時間連續期間防治法修正草原清水案,請委員會建立請文化交通司法及法治委員會審查,宣讀完畢。報告委員會報告事項第26案,現有民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商,請問委員會有無異議。"},{"start":6118.493,"end":6121.554,"text":"明議通告下案明議通告下案明議通告下案"},{"start":6148.001,"end":6163.408,"text":"無異議通過。下一案。第29案。北魏遠河新船等21家地區。照期犯罪危害防水條例草原侵水一案。持續委員會見。立行回交內政委員會審查。宣言完畢。報告委員會報告事項第29案。現有民主黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商。請問委員會有無異議。沒有異議通過。下一案。"},{"start":6170.253,"end":6181.049,"text":"第32 本日臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚 中華民族刑法第185條條無修正草案請審議案 財修委員會見立行會交司法及法制免或審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6182.233,"end":6184.275,"text":"五、一通過下案五、一通過下案五、一通過下案"},{"start":6209.995,"end":6234.35,"text":"第三十三案（北院臺灣民眾囊囊團理局國民年金法第54條之一條無修正草案請水案（財修院會見你請會教社會福利及衛生環境維護審查（宣布完畢五一通過下案（第三十四案（北院臺灣民眾囊囊團理局社會救助法第11條條無修正草案請水案（財修院會見你請會教社會福利及衛生環境維護審查（宣布完畢五一通過下案"},{"start":6234.73,"end":6257.648,"text":"第三十五案本院臺灣民眾黨團理局綜營管制法第26條及第28條條務修正財務勤水案財政委員會見禮請會交社會福利及偶像環境委員會審查宣讀完畢五議通過效應案第三十六案本院委員有號等37人理局軍黨及其附屬組織不當取得財政處理條例第4條及第34條條務修正財務勤水案財政委員會見禮請會交內政財政司法及法制3委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":6264.754,"end":6280.578,"text":"報告委員會報告事項第36案現有民進黨黨團體退回程序委員會重新提出請問委員會有異有異我們進行表決我們進行表決所有請議事人員分發表決卡我們現在按鈴7分鐘開始"},{"start":6658.135,"end":6676.502,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":6706.014,"end":6716.14,"text":"報告委員會要溫馨提示一下請問每位委員是不是都有簽到第二請問每位委員是不是都有拿到表決卡"},{"start":6717.864,"end":6735.497,"text":"都拿到。好,報告委員會現在針對民進黨黨團提議報告事項第36案退回程序委員會進行表決。現有民進黨黨團提議要求記名表決。我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始。"},{"start":6756.732,"end":6778.814,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6811.636,"end":6819.059,"text":"多元會現在報告表決結果出席委員101位贊成49位反對52位多元會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":6841.015,"end":6860.077,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":6868.552,"end":6894.498,"text":"發言委員：完整會議發言委員：完整會議發言委員：完整會議發言委員：完整會議發言委員：完整會議"},{"start":6910.509,"end":6933.804,"text":"報告委員會再次宣布表決結果,出席101位,贊成49位,反對52位,贊成者少數不通過。本案照程序委員會意見通過。下一案第37二,本會議委員張家俊已撤回前提之職務診療是否草案二,程序委員會見林行為同意撤回。宣告完畢。無異議通過。下一案"},{"start":6934.224,"end":6948.631,"text":"第38案．經濟部函送財團法人中國生產力中心的21家財團法人一百十二年度決算數案．財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會一百十二年度決算數案．財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會一百十二年度決算數案．財團法人"},{"start":6962.197,"end":6978.217,"text":"報告院會請大家輕聲細語好嗎?下一案第40案 內政法輪功財團法人二五八事件接連基金會等邦交財團法人一百十二年度全算數案。全算案會見聯席會長內政委員會審查宣布完畢。"},{"start":6982.967,"end":7004.372,"text":"第41屆金融監督額領委會函送財團法人臺灣金融研訓院等即將財團法人一百選年度決算書案。財政委員會審查稅讀完畢。第42案文化部函送財團法人國際文化藝術基金會等即將財團法人一百選年度決算書案。財政委員會監督額領委員會審查稅讀完畢。"},{"start":7009.853,"end":7024.17,"text":"第四屆三日（核能安全委員會（涵送參堵法人中華民國輻射防護協會（及參堵法人核能資訊中心一百選例入局算數二（請學員會見例行會長（交給文化委員或省長（宣讀完畢"},{"start":7025.325,"end":7053.673,"text":"五、一通過下一案。第44案。司法院還送財政法人法律輔助基金會一百選領度決算書案。陳秀元會見李景輝加入司法局法制委員會審查,宣讀完畢。五、一通過下一案。第45案。法務部還送財政法人台灣更生保護會、財政法人福建頓生保護會及財政法人犯罪被害人保護協會一百選領度決算書案。陳秀元會見李景輝加入司法局法制委員會審查,宣讀完畢。五、一通過下一案。"},{"start":7054.754,"end":7074.654,"text":"第46案,環境部函宋財團法人環境資源研究發展基金會等施加財團法人一百十二年度決算書案﹚強修委員會見臨時委員會交社會福利及互相環境委員會審查﹚宣讀完畢第47案,行政院函宋中華民國一百十四年度中央政府決算編制辦法﹚強修委員會見臨時委員會交財政委員會﹚宣讀完畢"},{"start":7078.499,"end":7100.187,"text":"委員通過下案。第48日,行政院喊送中華民國114年度中央政府組織在附屬單位上編制辦法,程序委員會見民進會及財政委員會。宣讀完畢。報告委員會再一次拜託大家稍微稍微"},{"start":7114.394,"end":7121.2,"text":"我指導國產生活、國產便當餐、國產便當餐。"},{"start":7139.861,"end":7165.076,"text":"好謝謝謝謝再一次拜託議員會大家保持宿敬讓我們的議案可以繼續進行下去謝謝大家通過下一案第49案財政部很為激動調教牛肉烘焙用奶粉、奶油、污水奶油及小麥等萬事而上貨品關稅稅率10日期間自113.4月1日起至同年6月30日之程序委員會見例行會將財政委員會宣布完畢無異通過下一案"},{"start":7165.476,"end":7191.544,"text":"第50案財政部海外修正經出口報單宣佈事項更正昨夜拜訪財政委員會建立行會教財政委員會宣布外閉。第51案大陸委員會海外修正公告臺灣地區人民法人團體或其他機構禁止擔任大陸地區黨務軍事行政或具政治機關各團體之職務或其成員之事項復建。財政委員會建立行會教內政委員會宣布外閉。"},{"start":7194.605,"end":7218.926,"text":"報告委員會本案國民黨黨團體改交審查本案交內政委員會審查。下一案繼續。第52案內政委員會修正替代役以及管理辦法。陳秀元會見你請回交內政委員會。宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案。第53案內政委員從全國性消防財政法人本於安全可考慮原則所為其他有助於增加財源值投資項目解讀。陳秀元會見你請回交內政委員會。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7222.109,"end":7223.11,"text":"第54議案第55議案第55議案"},{"start":7247.964,"end":7266.554,"text":"第56案．經濟母海維修生專業經貿戶技師辦理能源管理法檢查業務任何管理辦法第二條條文．修園會見臨時會交經濟委員會．虛擬外幣．第57案．經濟母海維修生技師或能源管理人員辦理能源管理業務資格認定辦法第二條條文．修園會見臨時會交經濟委員會．虛擬外幣．"},{"start":7271.337,"end":7283.262,"text":"第58日經濟部委員會修正能源用戶自治或委託計時或合格能源管理人員設置登記辦法第二條條文。陳修緣會屆理情委員會交經濟委員會。續理違併。第59日經濟部委員會修正工業登記規則。陳修緣會屆理情委員會交經濟委員會。續理違併。報言會本案由國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查。下一案"},{"start":7296.618,"end":7316.941,"text":"第62經濟武漢維修陣用電廠所及專任電機技術人員管理位置第二條條文,請衆議院會見,您請回交經濟委員會,宣讀外幣。第61案經濟武漢維修陣行辦工業人使用毗鄰非都市土地擴展計畫申請審查辦法第5條副表,請衆議院會見,您請回交經濟委員會,宣讀外幣。下一案"},{"start":7326.513,"end":7345.569,"text":"第62案（經濟部考慮修正中央管的河川程序圖是使用河川工地使用費收費標準第二條副表（財政委員會見議請回交經濟委員會宣讀完畢。第63案（經濟部考慮修正經濟部所屬產業園區管理機構下水道使用管理及收費規定。"},{"start":7346.89,"end":7364.305,"text":"程序委員會見議請回交經濟委員會宣讀完畢。第64案經濟母海維修陣抵押三項屬龍型感應電動機﹑安裝與特定設備之一附著能源效率基準、效率標示及檢查方式。程序委員會見議請回交經濟委員會宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7366.963,"end":7376.501,"text":"無意通過。報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽喜事。我們新竹縣物業管理服務職業工會的好朋友們在此熱情歡迎。"},{"start":7381.158,"end":7403.228,"text":"第62 農業部海委修正農業部農田水利署苗栗管理處農田水利事事範委陳秀陽會見臨時委員交經濟委員會區委員會第662 農業部海委修正陸域保育類野生動物名錄第三點規定非經主管金管同意不得買賣或在公共場所陳列展示之陸域保育類野生動物及其產製品之種類第三點規定"},{"start":7404.108,"end":7423.262,"text":"及適用野生動物保育法之人工飼養繁殖陸域野生動物種類第三年規定,陳秀燕會見臨時環交經濟委員會,宣讀完畢。第67案農業部人員修正公告美國德克斯洋失蹤,致公民原性交情流行性勞動非益群身處。陳秀燕會見臨時環交經濟委員會,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7427.165,"end":7444.68,"text":"第68二（農業部海外修正公告美國新墨西哥州自公民與新疆線流行性感冒肺炎去刪除。陳修緣會見你請回交經濟委員會﹖宣讀完畢。第69二（農業部海外修正限制輸出植物種苗或品香。陳修緣會見你請回交經濟委員會﹖宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7448.983,"end":7467.755,"text":"第七十二（就業部和維修生勾結中等校學校教師,解聘、補習品、提聘或自協辦法,承受委員會見例行會教教育及文化委員會,宣讀完畢。第七十一案（就業部和維修生校園報令防止轉折,承受委員會見例行會教教育及文化委員會,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7469.256,"end":7469.776,"text":"無異議通過下議案"},{"start":7484.821,"end":7503.281,"text":"第73 交通部海維修正鐵路機車車輛解除規則第四條條文,程序委員會見你請回交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第74 交通部海維修正交通部鐵道局編制表程序委員會見你請回交司法及法制交通兩委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":7504.842,"end":7505.503,"text":"無異議通過下議案"},{"start":7526.101,"end":7546.02,"text":"第76案 衛生福利部海外修正 優先採訪身心專業福利經貨團體或庇護工廠生產物品及服務頒布 程序委員會屆理行會 交通社會福利經貨商環境委員會 宣讀完畢無疑通過報告委員會第77案至263案 請依序宣讀其中第88 93到95"},{"start":7548.422,"end":7548.962,"text":"162、165、202、204、205、216、217、221、225、235、236案國民黨團體改交審查"},{"start":7565.552,"end":7565.752,"text":"第77案、78、84到87、92、9397、99到110、112、116、118、122、124、133、134、143到155、158、159、161、"},{"start":7588.964,"end":7602.496,"text":"163、164、263案由臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查。宣讀後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查。其餘一案均照程序委員會意見通過。請問院會有無異議?"},{"start":7605.185,"end":7607.547,"text":"無異,我們宣讀後通過。請宣讀。"},{"start":7635.325,"end":7656.915,"text":"第101案及第102案前委員會。第103案至第111案經濟部。第112案至第116案農業部。第117案至第119案公平交易委員會。第120案至第124案財政部。第125案至第128案經由監督管理委員會。第129案行政院主席總署。第130案中央銀行。"},{"start":7657.395,"end":7680.752,"text":"第13議案教育部﹖第13二案局﹖第13留案文化部﹖第13青岸河南安全委員會﹖第13辦案集體﹖第13九案國內故宮博物院﹖第14領案局﹖第14三案交通部﹖第14四案集體﹖第14五案書委發展部﹖第14六案集體﹖第14青岸緊將員公共工程委員會﹖第14辦案集體﹖第14九案國家通訊傳播委員會﹖第15領案總統府﹖第15議案司法院﹖"},{"start":7681.312,"end":7705.334,"text":"第152案堅強原民署長。第153案考試原民署長。第154案局第15青岸保護部。第155案勞動部。第159案局第162案衛生福利部。第163案局第165案環境部。第166案局第193案內政部。第194案局第229案外交部。第23案冷岸強武委員會。第231案局第245案國防部。第246案局第249案國家發展委員會。"},{"start":7707.256,"end":7729.595,"text":"第二五零二具體二五三案公平交易委員會第二五零二具體二二六三案經濟部還為一百十三年度相關預算一百十二年度相關預算中央政府海空戰略提升計畫採購特別預算前瞻基礎建設計畫第四期特別預算一百十三年度中央政府總預算等預算決議分別解送相關報告宣讀完畢。國務院會第264案以下請一併宣讀"},{"start":7735.939,"end":7738.992,"text":"宣讀後均准予被查。請宣讀。"},{"start":7739.724,"end":7768.615,"text":"第二、六、四案之第二、七、三案為本院交通、外交及國防、司法及法治經濟委員會函。委員會交付審查數位發展部一百十三年度中央政府準算權益等案,願以審查完均。第二、七、四案及第二、七、五案為本院社會福利及衛生環境財政委員會函。委員會交付審查相關行政命令,均已於立法院職權行使法第六十一條鎖定審查期限。第二、七、六案為行政院函送本院圖文員全期等,鎖定零時提案之嚴處刑刑。"},{"start":7769.495,"end":7774.7,"text":"現在我們針對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續進行質詢在進行質詢之前我們先請秘書長報告各部會首長請假請醒請秘書長"},{"start":7791.264,"end":7804.42,"text":"報告院會,行政院來函外交部林部長嘉隆本日因公請假,由田政務次長鐘光代表列席。報告完畢現在我們首先請邱毅英委員質詢"},{"start":7831.195,"end":7831.516,"text":"請委員好"},{"start":7845.563,"end":7863.162,"text":"院長好,院長我們相識二十幾年齁今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答那這個本來應該是要恭喜您的啦但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛整個行政立法之間的這個劍靶弩張"},{"start":7865.825,"end":7890.673,"text":"也不應該特別恭喜您。院長我想請您看一下,這個行政院對於在立法院在5月28號提出的國會擴權的這樣的一個法案,行政院很迅速的就提出了復議。所以這個大概是你們提出來的七大原因。當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個復議案。"},{"start":7891.753,"end":7905.949,"text":"很清楚的這個國會擴權的法案違憲違法完全至愛難行而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果"},{"start":7906.83,"end":7922.639,"text":"所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決"},{"start":7923.78,"end":7941.297,"text":"但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸"},{"start":7942.278,"end":7943.578,"text":"非常謝謝委員的理解在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案"},{"start":7967.008,"end":7969.31,"text":"好,院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心吼,雖千萬人無往矣"},{"start":7987.557,"end":8002.769,"text":"但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候"},{"start":8003.61,"end":8028.457,"text":"由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡"},{"start":8029.497,"end":8048.562,"text":"那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為"},{"start":8049.602,"end":8068.567,"text":"啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求"},{"start":8069.847,"end":8094.93,"text":"行政院院長如果表決不過的時候在申請釋憲的這個階段這個過程裡面行政院應該走出辦公室應該走到市民走到國民的面前讓臺灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性院長您同意我的建議嗎"},{"start":8095.95,"end":8108.339,"text":"非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來"},{"start":8109.212,"end":8138.672,"text":"我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後"},{"start":8139.312,"end":8141.754,"text":"我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。"},{"start":8163.595,"end":8172.104,"text":"再加油 再努力如果 不過的話 院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題"},{"start":8180.894,"end":8204.578,"text":"那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧"},{"start":8204.858,"end":8225.24,"text":"好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。"},{"start":8225.56,"end":8241.04,"text":"我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以"},{"start":8242.199,"end":8265.691,"text":"我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來"},{"start":8267.736,"end":8294.667,"text":"這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出"},{"start":8295.267,"end":8295.327,"text":"是的﹖"},{"start":8318.866,"end":8344.022,"text":"謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了"},{"start":8345.043,"end":8362.045,"text":"通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死"},{"start":8362.666,"end":8377.359,"text":"這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項"},{"start":8379.708,"end":8406.001,"text":"國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你們。國土計劃法針對違規使用定定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或是致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。"},{"start":8409.523,"end":8428.858,"text":"來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以"},{"start":8430.765,"end":8449.339,"text":"反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話"},{"start":8452.521,"end":8477.89,"text":"他一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠,您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟卿委員回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請他參加44場以上的這個溝通所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟他經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊,院長這個我就需要您的回答違規檢舉獎金制度"},{"start":8480.309,"end":8492.317,"text":"檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。"},{"start":8496.67,"end":8521.55,"text":"我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你"},{"start":8522.23,"end":8523.431,"text":"報告委員我始終一個想法"},{"start":8547.895,"end":8574.67,"text":"我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日來就這個部分來做法案的修訂"},{"start":8575.89,"end":8595.361,"text":"當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。"},{"start":8597.322,"end":8616.463,"text":"但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。"},{"start":8617.404,"end":8635.607,"text":"我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的"},{"start":8636.067,"end":8659.137,"text":"那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?"},{"start":8659.857,"end":8678.418,"text":"我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付"},{"start":8679.315,"end":8698.509,"text":"那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵,甚至於有關於生態的獎勵、環境的獎勵,我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分。請問你們要怎麼加碼,你們要怎麼做?過去比如說有領某一種幾副的,就不可以領第二種,那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵。"},{"start":8702.432,"end":8704.073,"text":"我真的覺得國土計劃法現在如果要倉促上路會引來非常多的怨言"},{"start":8726.56,"end":8754.583,"text":"我真的覺得跟民眾的溝通是非常的重要在還沒有完整的溝通之前我認為其實如果能夠緩一緩的話真的適緩責緣這個大家請行政院認真的去思考本席的建議以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝邱議員委員的質詢謝謝卓院長的備詢報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學我們熱情歡迎"},{"start":8756.335,"end":8757.956,"text":"台灣未來的棟樑,熱情歡迎。接下來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢。"},{"start":8774.588,"end":8775.368,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":8801.175,"end":8816.322,"text":"委員長好恭喜你我們首先來看我們的孩子因為投資教育希望永遠在這是我非常堅持的一個理念所以守護學童安全校園我們看到目前在全國裡頭"},{"start":8817.523,"end":8832.199,"text":"大概有400個校園他急需要跑道的一個整修但是我們也看到也聽到賴總統說體育暨運動發展部他希望要明確來提出成立是不是"},{"start":8833.148,"end":8860.054,"text":"我們在努力也希望大院能夠協助一起來把這個組織法調整將來可以上路。組織法調整就表示說大家看到這個問題點是重要的那我們有共識喔所以我們看到呢如果說我們未來預計你將要編列200億的預算對不對好200億的預算但是我們看到你目前所編列的大概一年是兩億"},{"start":8861.254,"end":8877.927,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":8878.067,"end":8893.822,"text":"大概大小平均值來計算那你大概呢需要40億的經費那這個40億的經費呢你如果一年跑到你只有2億的話那你等於要編列多少年啊?你等於要編列多少年?等於要編列20年"},{"start":8895.183,"end":8895.203,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":8922.915,"end":8923.316,"text":"這個狀況非常好!"},{"start":8939.362,"end":8958.671,"text":"國際到現在對於很多學校在興辦這個體育設施的更新當中過去一段時間我們用了很多的前瞻基礎建設但是也有很多應該是地方自治事項如果中央地方能夠合力來針對不同的學校不同的教育是體育設施能夠來分別來處理的話那這個時間會更短而且將來"},{"start":8959.811,"end":8987.205,"text":"在體育部成立之後我想我們會用另外一種視野跟眼光來看體育部相關的預算你希望時間更短你聽到本期的精髓如果一年只有2億的一個補助我們要400個學校要20年20年又有其他的學校又產生還是要有協助所以你聽到精髓時間要縮短所以本期具體跟你建議你應該要編列專案預算給校園操場的修繕你同意嗎"},{"start":8988.724,"end":9016.087,"text":"我們會看國家的財政狀況跟地方怎麼來配合。你同意嗎?是不是?往這個方向努力。往這個方向努力。小孩子體育教育的時候更好。你可以大膽一點的來說,你是同意的嘛。往這個方向來努力。大方向大家都會同意。好,你就說我們兩個在選打嘛。那你卓議員長我的解讀可以這麼說,你是同意我們要以專案的方式來協助這些操場的這個修建、布建。"},{"start":9016.567,"end":9018.549,"text":"謝謝方向同意,我也希望你去執行制。接下來本席請問你,因為目前為止我們的這個大安會裡頭告訴我們幼兒的學童"},{"start":9032.944,"end":9062.944,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":9063.605,"end":9079.827,"text":"十二歲以下的兒童呢我們每一年統計的數字我都不忍心史上的數字我不忍心講出來但是平均有超過25個兒童因為交通事故的傷亡所以這個問題"},{"start":9081.741,"end":9107.802,"text":"本席要見請卓院長,我們孩子都是我們的寶貝。我們要怎麼樣讓他能夠安全,尤其在少子化的現在。我們的數字是增加,你又不憂心啊?又不憂心?憂心。那既然是憂心了,我們就要好好的來把這些周邊來佈建好,好不好?應該加強就像剛才所說的數字年限,經費要增加,年限要縮短。"},{"start":9109.458,"end":9123.186,"text":"報告委員行人跟學童的安全我們會列為現在即將要做的工作當中交通部已經有一個相當完整而清楚的計畫如果容許交通部昨天我也本席也親自到交通委員會去"},{"start":9123.746,"end":9139.548,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":9140.049,"end":9158.867,"text":"接下來本席要請教立法院好不容易藍、綠、白的委員都同意。在前任的行政院院長陳建仁先生以及我們前任的薛部長魏吾普都同意。"},{"start":9159.548,"end":9185.353,"text":"而且預計要在今年編列預算編列明年度的預算所以你看到這個畫面很難得藍綠白全國家長聯盟共同來支持的這個政策也就是HPV的疫苗當時早期我相信邱部長早期也跟我們奮鬥到早期說因為經費的問題所以我們從國中的女生開始打"},{"start":9189.094,"end":9216.217,"text":"給我的一個條件我努力執行到位請主委聽清楚也就是說如果女生有達到九成那麼我們就願意將男生國中的男生也一起因為你只有單邊只有保護女生這還是不夠的所以因此在這個前任的行政院長跟我們前任的衛福部部長跟當時的邱這個現任的邱部長跟當時的"},{"start":9217.638,"end":9217.979,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":9238.496,"end":9265.91,"text":"我也記得陳前院長曾經提議答應說要延役當女生達到90%之後往男生這個在延役那現在所以現在就是衛福部會接續陳前院長這樣的決定繼續還在做一些就同意要編列預算男生一併打我們會成為一個非常光榮因為總統說了我們要有什麼呢我們要做健康憲章對不對"},{"start":9268.771,"end":9296.956,"text":"是的,健康憲章所以兩個議題請教大家有共識非常好也就是大家努力的成果我們女生達到九成以上的男生必須要執行之編列預算成為亞洲區第一個男女共打保護我們孩童施打HPV疫苗的先進國家所以我兩個議題請教第一個我們的健康憲章卓院長什麼時候會出來第二個我們的預算編列多少請教"},{"start":9297.622,"end":9315.658,"text":"第一個我們在健康臺灣的論壇當中已經講到深化這個健康臺灣這個議題當中健康現障是一個頂重要的什麼時候會出來衛福部剛接手的衛福部一定要馬上再進行相關的這個馬上是多久衛福部說明我可以讓邱部長您說"},{"start":9316.921,"end":9321.724,"text":"請告訴我時間好嗎?你預計你們的KPI什麼時候可以出來給國人報告?告訴我時間點好嗎?什麼時候可以告訴國人?"},{"start":9337,"end":9358.568,"text":"因為這個可能出來以後還要經過更多專家討論當然所以我只要院長我只要你告訴我一個時間點是年底還是第三季什麼時候可以出來讓國人了解報告委員這個我剛剛說過健康台灣的論壇之極全國所有的醫學的專家先做出這樣的結論出來之後這是一個非常審慎的工作"},{"start":9366.631,"end":9367.292,"text":"我報告委員一下"},{"start":9384.794,"end":9385.495,"text":"沒關係,我們做任何事情,卓院長。"},{"start":9399.91,"end":9421.929,"text":"一個月出來炒稿院長我謝謝你們我們一定要好好努力做但是我希望我們新政府做事情還是要有KPI的指標大概什麼時間會出來現在邱部長給我一個答案一個月內會出來炒案那炒案之後大概什麼時候今年年底會不會出來"},{"start":9423.769,"end":9450.761,"text":"我們就是要跟社會做對話我們努力努力讓他盡快的實現但是社會的意見我們要尊重好邱部長你有沒有設定你自己的KPI時間點我想健康憲章這個部分我們以前做過太多像每個地區也有健康像北投也有健康憲章部長你現在不是邱立法委員你現在是邱部長你想一想沒關係你書面資料給本席至少你回答本席"},{"start":9451.741,"end":9470.879,"text":"健康憲章的草案一個月內會出來好不好那接下來怎麼樣正式你再順便資料給本席那第二個議題HPA的預算疫苗男生的預算這4億多沒有多少錢請問編了沒編了沒部長嗯"},{"start":9474.279,"end":9483.832,"text":"現在那個我想非常感謝因為HPV對男生的一個預防請教你現在是部長請政策回答你編了沒預算"},{"start":9486.567,"end":9488.668,"text":"我們現在正在編你預算的當中我們會積極來研議"},{"start":9516.667,"end":9518.248,"text":"謝謝邱副長,我給你感謝。我們都是共同奮鬥,連卓院長當時"},{"start":9537.157,"end":9553.295,"text":"我們藍、綠、白都全部合作所以我們希望成為亞洲第一個先進國家男女共同施打你拼命點頭我希望你在編列明年度的預算甚至在今年你如果有預算就可以開始執行至少明年度的預算要編列OK嗎?"},{"start":9555.478,"end":9571.197,"text":"會執行吧?會全力來研議。全力研議,就是全力執行,是嗎?因為剛剛卓院長在你的屁股啊,你是在嚇死了啦。院長已經說了,照陳前院長的指示啦,他的指示你也參與到啊,對不對?"},{"start":9571.818,"end":9590.106,"text":"我們會造成監獄長此事言議,但是我剛剛跟委員報告,這要編的預算,我們現在不是我們編的,我們現在進到概算的程序,大家都去檢視。好,謝謝。舊副長,你聽到左院長的支持,我們務必要編,成為亞洲第一個,編出來之後預算通過,我們來開一個記者會。"},{"start":9592.788,"end":9614.606,"text":"讓臺灣在世界上的醫療能夠發光發熱,好不好?尤其在蔣海同,我相信你一定做得到的。接下來我們要談電的問題。電的問題,院長,我非常的敬佩郭部長。郭部長說,他講真心話,他說這個台電公寓上去博補他不太贊成。"},{"start":9616.295,"end":9635.656,"text":"當然他率性的這個回答所以我們現在目前大家都非常的支持郭部長因為郭部長他會講真話而且他是真正在解決問題他來自產業我們支持我們支持之餘還是要解決問題在賴總統擔任行政院長的時候他曾經說過了"},{"start":9637.58,"end":9653.491,"text":"他前天說過他告訴我們在2017年的時候他說2025年我們的能源配比再生能源20%等等等但是王美花部長告訴我們是跳票的所以我也在經濟委員會請教了我們的郭部長"},{"start":9654.392,"end":9673.387,"text":"我說,那我們現在怎麼辦?沒關係,你們承認2025年原先的能源配比是跳票的。我們積極趕快鼓勵再加油。這是我們非常誠意的鼓勵政府。所以再生能源的部分從20%你們預估要調降到這個15.5%。我們也都給予鼓勵,但是其中有一個問題。"},{"start":9680.595,"end":9695.266,"text":"也就是沒有加入AI訊息萬變我也感謝郭部長他願意在這個會期7月16日之前會給國人一個報告我們的需求電力因為原先111年所說的3045億度的需求度這個是111年因為112年還沒出來"},{"start":9703.376,"end":9731.957,"text":"那麼告訴我們是2027年的時候會超過會達到3045億度可是還沒有加入AI所以郭部長非常誠意的說給一點時間因為又加入了AI訊息萬變所以我非常的敬佩郭部長他的坦白而且願意面對問題解決問題所以有兩個議題要請教第一個也就是我們的能源配比"},{"start":9732.637,"end":9735.72,"text":"您的好朋友童子賢先生也說了如果沒有加入這個核的部分"},{"start":9752.859,"end":9753.019,"text":"請教院長。"},{"start":9770.336,"end":9799.067,"text":"第一個議題等一下請您尊敬的這個郭部長來回答。那非核家園現在依照我們的環境基本法我們還是要依法朝向非核家園。那要讓我們安全的供電穩定供電這是政府的要務。我們必須在這個安全穩定供電的前提之下發展更多的綠能。我們說展綠、蒸汽、減煤到非核這個就是步驟。所以本期告訴你賴總統擔任行政院長的時候跳票了。"},{"start":9799.787,"end":9820.286,"text":"我不希望你的回答你的宣布又是跳票人民騙一次就夠了不要再騙了那我們也願意因為訊息萬變所以我希望我們非常理性的討論我希望得到答案會不會調整非核家園如果AI的這個用電量"},{"start":9821.921,"end":9840.803,"text":"現在科技的進步有些事情在多少年前是難以預測的。但是我們的法律規定就是朝向非核家園進步。院長你是一個有能力的人不要再拿法律來搪塞。今天政府如果需要法律可以修。"},{"start":9841.872,"end":9843.072,"text":"那我們現在就請郭部長"},{"start":9868.665,"end":9887.641,"text":"報告委員我想這個大家關心的是說會不會缺電我先給你報告這個結論到2030年我們是不會缺電的那這個我們為什麼這麼講呢就是說我們已經務實的考量用電的需求那麼2023年到2030年我們這個需求大概成長700萬千瓦那我們現在的大型機組呢會競爭910萬千瓦"},{"start":9898.129,"end":9920.257,"text":"但就如您剛才指導的這個我們可能這個AI暴增所以我們現在在考量我們用280萬千瓦作為我們大概考量的一個標準那這個280萬千瓦要說一次跳掉這個機率其實是幾乎是等於零但是我們還是放寬了這個電的這個"},{"start":9923.274,"end":9931.612,"text":"容量所以我們有兩個方法第一個就是用這個除電除電"},{"start":9933.624,"end":9956.32,"text":"本市瞭解差端你的話。你要用ESCO的概念。對不對?你用ESCO的概念所以本市還是要請教您。您現在信心滿滿。我也期待在7月16日以前你告訴我們總電力以及你的能源配比。這個是我非常關心。也希望卓議員長到時候經濟部長所公布的不可以再跳票。我講會怕一片就死啊。"},{"start":9956.9,"end":9980.675,"text":"不可以再下第二次所以本下還在請教院長也就是告訴我們的2027年我們的用電是3042億度但是是沒有包括AI在這樣的一個情況之下我們年用電量是不是會提早衝破3000億度大約時間點或落點在哪裡現在111年度告訴我們的是"},{"start":9982.137,"end":9988.305,"text":"2027年那現在加入AI導入會不會提早衝破3000億度的需求量?"},{"start":9989.148,"end":10014.84,"text":"我們現在的需求生產量是2.2左右吧那未來我們預期整個工科技的發展會有更大的需要所以剛剛部長已經講到會要科技的儲能跟發展都能做得更多的預測所以換句話你這個回答也就是會提早衝破3000億度對不對沒有沒有你轉頭看看你的部長他一直在點頭一直轉過來你轉頭過去看看"},{"start":10018.121,"end":10030.234,"text":"所以我們也希望能夠為產業為民生用電安全接下來政見要落實處理式規劃臺中國立發電廠我們真的好辛苦"},{"start":10031.314,"end":10054.394,"text":"我們也為社會大眾貢獻良多因為我們當地的健康是我們的寶貝我們一定要好好顧著所以我要請教院長你提出的這個健康憲章我一直希望追出來也就是說中火陸續除疫的規劃是5年還是10年因為我們自己有一套的減煤每一年遞減"},{"start":10055.715,"end":10074.382,"text":"在臺中市議會通過的所以我希望政府幫我們規劃中火廚藝的規劃什麼時候五年還是十年你做一個完整性的然後書面資料給本席我們一起朝著這個方向讓我們臺灣的電臺灣的能源能夠更加的安靜"},{"start":10075.442,"end":10078.104,"text":"我希望縮短時間,你認同嗎?所以你把規劃給本席,好嗎?"},{"start":10101.645,"end":10106.115,"text":"我們會考慮到安全穩定供電那麼對環境的影響我們把它降到最低"},{"start":10107.076,"end":10108.677,"text":"民進黨的部分區的第二名沈博洋先生他說了"},{"start":10135.319,"end":10142.609,"text":"到底這是真的假的他說高風險族群包括在大陸做生意或者是大陸有來往的人院長這真議題假議題啊"},{"start":10146.263,"end":10174.466,"text":"這是真議題假議題這是一個社會在討論的議題但是到現在真正的結論還是在經過大家共同對事實狀況的研判對事實狀況如果依照沈博亮先生所說的那你走回內閣裡頭我會緊張你聽你聽我們的政府院長的先生沈先生他也在東莞做生意我們的郭部長他生意做得這麼好他也在大陸有很多的分公司"},{"start":10175.487,"end":10195.288,"text":"那如果照他的規劃裡頭 那我們國防會的劉主委 他是IBM這個專家在整個這個大台東地區大中華地區 他供應鏈他諮詢服務他是負責人類 那如果照他的說法 院長你也去過大陸兩三次嗎 是"},{"start":10196.483,"end":10201.53,"text":"對阿那這些都是危險分子欸高危險分子欸可以這麼認定嗎可以這麼認定嗎他是這麼說阿那他的定義是什麼"},{"start":10214.622,"end":10221.686,"text":"那一定是有目的有企圖心的特殊的行為,對國家造成傷害,它才會是我們應該去防範的潛在性的危險。因為他說高風險族群裡頭,你注意聽喔,宮廟危險最低,黑道、陸配在中間。"},{"start":10244.894,"end":10271.156,"text":"陳理長立委和大學教授是最高風險,你認同嗎?我尊重委員各種言論上表示出來的意見。你尊重他,但是你聽起來你認為台灣可以如此嗎?台灣有台灣的問題跟現象,因為台灣的民主可以這樣子說法嗎?我們有我們遇到的問題跟現象,那包括所有的國安團隊持續都在重視這樣的現象,我們的責任就是在防範讓它不會成為嚴重的威脅。"},{"start":10272.193,"end":10300.989,"text":"台灣當然是一個民主國家講什麼都可以但是如果危害任意的惡意的貼標籤會危害到台灣的民主也會危害到台灣整個的安全度你認不認同我們當然希望尊重每個人的言論自由之外尊重個別人的人權的保護言論自由的保護都要同時並進都要同時並進嘛所以院長你要小心喔因為這是你們貴黨的立法委員部分區的說的讓人民人心惶惶欸"},{"start":10302.941,"end":10328.896,"text":"你讓那些教授都人心惶惶,你看可以嗎?好,很慎重,所以我也認同你的很慎重,但是務必,務必不要再製造人民的恐慌,好嗎?所以我在一個結論,所謂的第五縱隊你的安心,所謂的第五縱隊在你目前執政的政府是沒有這回事,可以這麼解讀嗎?"},{"start":10330.029,"end":10333.473,"text":"我們有不同潛在的威脅但不一定要用這樣的名稱來涵蓋"},{"start":10335.438,"end":10336.018,"text":"接下來我要講的我們的產業"},{"start":10365.27,"end":10382.946,"text":"我們都非常希望臺灣一進棒的,臺灣的隱形冠軍太多了,臺灣的發明,臺灣的在全世界裡頭,不得了了,最近這AI進來這五個全世界的首戶前10名,都是我們臺灣,我真的感動得不得了,太光榮了,對不對?"},{"start":10383.663,"end":10409.072,"text":"完全對而且我們的中小企業也有相當的光榮感對我也給郭部長講我們除了AAA我們除了科學之外我們的中小產業台灣的產業是所重要照顧的院長對不對對不對我們的中小企業你連這個都不敢回答我們的中小企業在地的產業我們政府要全力的支持他們對不對院長院長"},{"start":10411.161,"end":10430.25,"text":"是我們不僅中小企業我們連中小微企業都不希望在這個AI轉型的過程當中受到傷害所以所謂的以大代小這個概念非常好那本集要請教我們很榮耀但是亞洲地區是我們科技創新最快的可是我們看到企業創投"},{"start":10431.496,"end":10450.003,"text":"他所發布的、執行長所發布的五個國家沒有我們耶!怎麼回事啊?有印尼、有越南、有日本、有韓國、有印度!不管人才!他都講別人耶!怎麼沒有講到我們台灣這怎麼回事?我們繼續努力啊!繼續努力有什麼方案?"},{"start":10451.533,"end":10452.774,"text":"因為這個國外的大廠來臺灣他是要用我們的人才"},{"start":10467.046,"end":10482.393,"text":"我們現在是說這個人才齁臺灣因為我們稍微……請針對問題郭部長你現在所謂的人才本席知道你說要培養20萬人然後18萬人是在工廠裡頭高階的你給他比例50%50%這本席非常清楚但是我要給院長講的是說世界的評比沒有看到臺灣"},{"start":10488.24,"end":10514.152,"text":"我很震撼我們這麼好怎麼會沒有我們的所以我請院長你要努力你要努力不要只有自嗨我們要努力好不好好不好一起努力一起努力接下來最後一個議題危險邊坡我們在陸續發生了這些事情從4級5級6級7級這些的次數我都不忍心講院長我請你"},{"start":10515.353,"end":10533.85,"text":"我請你組專案這是人民安全的問題這是人民安全的問題你必須要組專案去解決協助這些問題因為沒有生命什麼都不用講了一走過去癱下來完蛋了對不對我看到你臉慢慢的沉重起來"},{"start":10535.083,"end":10557.911,"text":"不會齁?那表示你有信心。看到這種危險的地方當然我們會感同身受啦。對。那至於具體的措施,交通部從過去到現在已經有相當的作用。對。朱部長,你也是專家。我希望我本席提出國土安全的問題,鞭破這麼危險。我希望你把書面資料給本席,你去盤點。因為我們經過921,我們的中橫還沒有通,我們都很緊張。"},{"start":10560.652,"end":10590.152,"text":"好不好因為中文通我們台灣全部都通這是務必要做的好不好針對包括像高鐵台鐵高速公路跟一般的省道公路有各種邊坡我們現在都有監測努力去做因為他的數字我不忍心講出來你把書面資料給本席院長最後一個功課給你本席在經濟委員會大任召委超失的檔案到昨天為止我們也到現場考察"},{"start":10591.018,"end":10593.059,"text":"謝謝楊卓英委員質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。報言後我們現在休息10分鐘。"},{"start":11028.848,"end":11035.247,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":11138.899,"end":11144.002,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":11207.475,"end":11209.919,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11268.226,"end":11280.835,"text":"報告委員會現在我們繼續開會林黛樺委員聲明上午表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報告委員會現在我們請陳婷菲委員質詢謝謝主席我們是請卓榮泰院長還有文化部部長還有財政部部長"},{"start":11296.656,"end":11297.665,"text":"再請卓院長、兩位部長備詢。"},{"start":11311.292,"end":11337.842,"text":"謝謝院長還有兩位部長我想最近有人挑起了一個所謂天馬電台的議題這是我們地方的痛因為在102年我用了很多的心力然後透過質詢好不容易就是把我們中央電台的天馬電台移到包中電台這一塊土地就完全歸我們國產署所有"},{"start":11338.522,"end":11359.878,"text":"所以這盡了很多的力量在102年正式遷臺到包裝然後呢開始了所謂的招商最開始我們所期待的未到在這裡做一個所謂隱存的規劃他也有來也有來做說明我們滿心期待但是最後不見了"},{"start":11360.859,"end":11374.412,"text":"然後我們有所謂的沙崙隱藏也不見了然後這個衛島要移到後壁也不見了都不見了好再來又有所謂的這個明華園要來也不見了"},{"start":11375.39,"end":11394.433,"text":"也就是說在當時候招商必須負擔的相對價值他們要做的文化因為我們這一塊就是文創產業專用園區所以文化產業本身他必須投注很多的心力但是不一定所收到的效益是高的"},{"start":11395.074,"end":11420.636,"text":"但是呢,我們的相關單位卻要求必須要對等的回饋,所以沒有辦法達到。光所有來到我們天馬電台去做說明會在我們本院寮曹新公普安祖師鋪安周書陶井開公廳會啦,開說明會啦,都殺到啊,結果最後都不見了。"},{"start":11422.317,"end":11447.176,"text":"總共這樣子拖了到現在從102年正式遷台到現在就是一片的荒蕪這是我們的痛啊但是最近有人故意挑起說延旦13年延旦13年是誰延旦是地方政府跟中央政府因為是地方政府跟中央政府一起開發一起合作"},{"start":11448.609,"end":11448.629,"text":"再來﹖"},{"start":11477.679,"end":11492.73,"text":"我們必須說的現在土地經過了這段時間土地目前從台南市政府的管理單位原本是台南市政府的管理現在又歸還到我們財政部"},{"start":11494.128,"end":11513.41,"text":"關我們所看到的從106年看到衛德森這麼大的亮點不見了然後不斷的這樣子一個拖延明花園也是亮點也不見了到了107年最後由台南市政府來管理現在又歸還到我們的財政部好現在問題來了"},{"start":11515.013,"end":11533.245,"text":"現在我們要透過所謂的我們市政府安南區的溜通,要去做土地變更。我要拜託部長,全力配合。我們希望是整體開發,沒有整體開發,沒有辦法有亮點。"},{"start":11534.457,"end":11556.288,"text":"如何把土地規劃不論是商業區他未來怎麼去做一個所謂的亮點經營然後把土地有部分來到我們市政府做一些回饋我相信都應該全力配合市政府這個拜託部長OK吧是謝謝委員這個部分確實天馬電台這一塊土地有29公頃相當的大"},{"start":11564.656,"end":11565.54,"text":"那曾經國產署也跟"},{"start":11567.042,"end":11595.752,"text":"台南市政府合作就如同委員講的我們做合作的開發但是後來因為一直都沒有招到適合的一個用來做這樣的一個用途所以現在約已經結了交回到國產署那目前來說台南市政府正在通盤檢討看看這塊土地的都市計劃要做6通113年的6通我想我們就國產署來說只要這塊土地能夠更好的一個運用而且對地方的發展是有助益的話我們一定會全力的協助配合"},{"start":11596.312,"end":11617.962,"text":"我們希望財政部全力配合因為這時間實在拖延太久了我們不斷的催促然後我要拜託部長現在荒蕪一片現在雜草一堆我覺得應該在還沒有開發之前因為六通到底要到什麼時候才能有一個結果不知道"},{"start":11619.224,"end":11637.496,"text":"是不是可以先委由市政府我們絕對把所有的環境整理一下讓社區可以來使用這太大了這太大了你知道嗎這邊實在是有夠髒亂的這個我覺得你們要趕快去處理好這個部長再拜託一下那另外我們要再談到另外一個議題"},{"start":11647.011,"end":11661.976,"text":"我想國家語言法發展,整個在2018年12月25號三讀通過,這也是我們一直在推的。講台語啦,但是我們自己的母語,所以國家語言發電話在我們2018年12月25日三讀通過。"},{"start":11667.118,"end":11684.805,"text":"兩千公一九年七月七日（台藝台在公司正式來成立。我們現在要推的,我們今天要推的,就是《台藝文化恆久》。這對過去,我們都有一個進展,有一個補調。因為我們中華,剛好在一間館十八檔的時候,設立了《台藝文創藝恆久》。"},{"start":11693.311,"end":11694.771,"text":"我現在要向我們部長拜託"},{"start":11722.028,"end":11738.26,"text":"部長,我給你報告,因為台南沒有人比我更了解他的地理環境。我給你報告,第一,有人說天馬電台,但是現在天馬電台土地還是未成熟。他未來要怎麼開發不知道,企業要怎麼開發不知道,土地未成熟,因為這是國有財產局的。"},{"start":11748.172,"end":11752.216,"text":"臺南文化創意三頁風空．大地火車站的旁邊．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．�"},{"start":11774.298,"end":11778.356,"text":"我現在把整個所在社會可以設的 給我們補充報告"},{"start":11780.199,"end":11792.428,"text":"第三個地方有個地方叫臺灣的蘇博物館。臺灣的蘇博物館總共有幾公頃?20公頃。20公頃依靠著我們的志鴻池,還有我們的綠帶,還有日記、擴建的需要。其實在我們的土地建培喔,建培也只有5.5公頃。20公頃只有做5.5公頃。"},{"start":11806.769,"end":11829.162,"text":"但是這個部分我們如果要把它做為代議文化分區﹐可以跟它結合﹐立訴文化、文化跟結合﹐它會變成人說的結智啦﹐跟它立訴的、跟它文化的、跟它文化的都來到這﹐土地跟我們文化保衛﹐我們馬上變經濟就可以做這樣﹐這樣是不是很失動﹐因為這個部分我也跟市政府討論過﹐"},{"start":11836.752,"end":11838.296,"text":"臨時提案委員：完整會議"},{"start":11845.435,"end":11869.334,"text":"若通過後,土地國是價位,要如何價位我們不知道。而且最快的速度,我們如果看通報檢測,這議長就很了解了,議長也從之前起來了。通報檢測若要有結論,3、4天、4、5天,那算有夠快的了。所以你今天你要用一個主要通報檢測來做這個部分,未定數。"},{"start":11872.182,"end":11884.334,"text":"遙遙無期所以我跟部長建議臺語文化園區因為我過去在教文化園區我們就一步一步從我們的國家語言發展法到臺語臺現在時間夠了"},{"start":11888.738,"end":11890.899,"text":"部長,我覺得這是我們可以考量的地方。"},{"start":11915.7,"end":11930.23,"text":"尤其台、台域文化行政院跟我們台灣理事部文化的結合作會。甚至乎,在這裡,他是我們的盟民喔。我們的、我們的國道一路外,連有多個這個盟民,可以接來到我們的山海峻綠島。"},{"start":11932.262,"end":11934.103,"text":"臨時提案委員：完整會議臨時提案委員．完整會議"},{"start":11949.779,"end":11972.86,"text":"部長這才有意義啦對不對部長你覺得呢這個其實謝謝委員剛才講的那幾個點其實我個人就在安南區做千里步道剛才講山海郡就是我們發起作為一個千里步道的起點那你剛才講那幾個點我會在最快時間去看因為剛才講那個天馬天海那一區我沒有看過那另外這個"},{"start":11974.559,"end":11993.631,"text":"因為天板電台現在就是荒蕪一大片,30公頃的荒蕪一片。我承諾委員我會在最快時間去這幾個點看過以後,把它構想出來。因為土地最重要嘛,土地還沒問題,你給我做做經費嘛。你絕對不可以站一塊,我們完全不可以監控的地方,這樣整個做好了,搞不好不可以走。"},{"start":12000.478,"end":12000.498,"text":"委員長"},{"start":12016.705,"end":12039.907,"text":"謝謝委員對文化的用心跟設想了這麼多的地點那剛剛李部長也已經表示他會近期內去看看哪一個地方將來適合做什麼樣的使用那另外關於天馬電台現在如果這個土地這麼大那我們沒有辦法能夠即刻的活化使用情況底下我也要求財政部國有財產署"},{"start":12041.109,"end":12046.166,"text":"環境一定要整理好不要成為地方人民對他產生險惡的措施地方"},{"start":12046.667,"end":12075.816,"text":"我拜託這個天馬電台現在的髒亂一個月給我們答覆看怎麼處理。今天有人把這個桶再挖起來,那我們就直球對決啦。我們再拜託我們的部長。那我現在另外一個議題就是我們台61線我們的曾文熙跨海大橋如何銜接到86快速道路的部分。我想院長這個部分"},{"start":12076.756,"end":12098.651,"text":"一定非常重要,因為我們的責任在大橋,曾文熙大橋好不容易在林全院長,我當時有質詢他也是就在這個地方,當蔡英文總統第一任的時候林全部長在這裡,他馬上答應了曾文熙大橋OK,現在曾文熙大橋也在進行當中了。"},{"start":12099.471,"end":12117.799,"text":"現在負責大局,要來臨時86號,我們的快速道路,拜託我們的議長一定要加速,因為現在確實也在規劃,因為這個太重要了。如果可以銜接從外環道,這一條是比什麼都還重要啊。"},{"start":12118.839,"end":12147.23,"text":"這樣子根本就不用再把所謂的車子引流到我們的濱海那些濱海都太扯了如果可以從我們的曾文熙直接到86我相信這樣的一個變節還有未來我們要發展所有的科技甚至產業絕對就都沒問題了我們這裡有說有台南科工區還有新集工業區未來七股工業區還有南科"},{"start":12148.29,"end":12166.144,"text":"這一段對於這一條所謂的曾文熙大橋銜接86攜帶非常高啊。這部分我們有怎麼計畫要快速處理。報告委員這條長有47公里的重要的延伸道路現在正在聽取各方面"},{"start":12167.096,"end":12170.479,"text":"現在在做可行性研究沒有,現在我們知道現在在做可行性可是中間有很多的關卡包括我們過去的嫌惡設施"},{"start":12193.397,"end":12215.752,"text":"這裡有很多就是我們說的,我們為了要綠能的發電,這裡有很多,可是這些現在要怎麼突破?就是我們過去都沒有一體性的研究嘛,那這邊怎麼辦?現在這一個情形沒錯啊,預計要113年底要完成。好,我們會如同現在所做的,這個是我們地方一直在"},{"start":12224.266,"end":12225.328,"text":"八月份提出方案"},{"start":12234.254,"end":12261.888,"text":"八月份就會提出來了我們期待喔因為你們現在預計你們預計是在這個綜合規劃的時程是兩年然後二屆環評是四到五年喔然後建設計劃又一年喔你光這個你知道沒錯啊所以你前面路線如果拖的話後面就一直拖囉這個如果你們的時程表可能十天就看不到了"},{"start":12274.795,"end":12277.016,"text":"謝謝陳平飛委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請張家俊委員質詢"},{"start":12291.274,"end":12294.736,"text":"院長我想請卓院長再請卓院長備選卓院長好這次我們的AI行動內閣禁用了很多實務界的專業人士那各界呢也都很期待我們的內閣團隊是一個很接地氣的內閣那院長對我們的內閣有什麼樣的期許呢"},{"start":12314.994,"end":12337.132,"text":"謝謝委員對我們的肯定。當然你所說的我們有來自產業界有來自學術界也有原來在陳建仁院長時代留下來的幾位很優秀的部會首長我希望新舊之間盡快的融合我們跟人民展現的就是我們要用行動積極行動跟創新的理念將它放在我們對每一項所以我們說我們會到"},{"start":12339.373,"end":12364.574,"text":"發言問題的第一線解決問題的第一線也提出正確方法的第一線我們會努力讓自己在這個工作上做好自己應該有的責任本席也對院長所帶領的內閣團隊充滿了期待希望可以排除藍綠之間的爭議做一些扶國立民真正對台灣好的政策那我知道院長很少提到家庭不曉得院長當阿公了沒有"},{"start":12365.595,"end":12371.069,"text":"如果不想回答可以不用回答不方便回答可以不用回答但有一個趨勢我只是有老人卡而已"},{"start":12372.914,"end":12401.269,"text":"有一個趨勢要讓院長知道從2016開始我們臺灣已經進入了一個生不如從這個臺灣的生育率有每況愈下從2020年開始我們臺灣已經進入了一個生不如死的狀況每年以一萬這樣子的人口數下降這樣子急劇的下降那可以說是少子化變成一個國安問題為什麼年輕人不敢生院長知道嗎"},{"start":12403.794,"end":12416.832,"text":"有一些是這個社會環境的變遷,有一些是經濟的因素,還有很多就是生下來之後他的教養問題,國家還要持續的給他更多的協助。沒錯,院長講到重點,其實就是教養問題,就是經濟問題。"},{"start":12419.215,"end":12438.522,"text":"那現在行政院要推動托育政策2.0版但很奇怪的是少子化明明是越來越嚴重但是很多爸爸媽媽在替小朋友抽公幼還是抽不到不曉得院長有沒有朋友跟你反應過說欸怎麼辦抽不到欸怎麼樣都抽不到公幼有沒有"},{"start":12439.651,"end":12454.328,"text":"過去蠻嚴重那現在這個情形稍稍有舒緩但是政府的各項的措施包括公托準公托的這個設施還要繼續的強化精進沒錯就是目前就讀私立幼兒園的學生數是38.5萬佔比67.6%那讀公幼的"},{"start":12459.474,"end":12459.854,"text":"當然我們會持續的"},{"start":12500.022,"end":12516.934,"text":"是這個我們都共同的期待那在公幼銜接上需求之前本席建議院長是不是可以考慮先提高育兒津貼跟托育補助因為目前現行的育兒津貼而言第一胎每個月只有五千塊"},{"start":12517.654,"end":12537.619,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":12538.18,"end":12549.012,"text":"的這個補助來做修正來修正這個補助那當然這個物價指數大幅提高超過警戒值的時候希望我們行政院可以有所因應"},{"start":12550.326,"end":12567.797,"text":"報告委員,育兒津貼從創設到現在逐步有在增加當中,而且這個速度是考量政府財政的負擔。所以在這個情況底下,我們一樣的,當少子化的問題日趨嚴重的情況底下,政府的政府投資跟社會投資都會日益增加。"},{"start":12568.237,"end":12569.778,"text":"這是過程當中我們一定在財政衡量容許的範圍當中盡量鼓勵也盡量照顧。"},{"start":12583.021,"end":12586.202,"text":"謝謝院長。接下來院長最近最夯的議題就是有關於AI產業的發展。國家的半導體產業跟AI產業的發展是一個關鍵時刻,尤其台積電、輝達等大廠都相繼想要擴廠、設廠。"},{"start":12599.946,"end":12599.966,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":12621.186,"end":12649.275,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":12649.315,"end":12649.555,"text":"中科二期擴大"},{"start":12676.536,"end":12698.133,"text":"首先我們都非常感謝黃仁勳執行長他的喜愛夜市讓台灣的美食揚名世界那我們會繼續把我們的夜市做得乾淨漂亮而且衛生營養再就是輝達公司在內湖的總部目前使用的狀況他已經接近相當的這個飽和之中了"},{"start":12698.573,"end":12723.604,"text":"那他會尋求各地方但是這個除了他公司的產業的布局選擇之外我們也希望他選擇台灣的任何一個地方我們都能提供最好的公共服務基礎設施的服務那但是這樣世界的大廠要選擇在哪裡他現在還沒有做明確的規定明示底下我們現在只能是等待他做好更多的地方的選擇跟調查"},{"start":12725.069,"end":12740.59,"text":"當然但是本席剛剛第二個問題就是說我們現在中科二期擴大現在沒有說現在已經拿到用水同意函用電同意函跟用地同意函已經進入到土地變更的這個期程在之前呢"},{"start":12741.35,"end":12764.91,"text":"經濟部是一直都非常支持目前需要農業部儘速地把變更土地核定下來我們就會跟上台積電明年要設廠的期程這一點可不可以拜託院長督促農業部儘速地來審查我們的土地變更案呢?初步計畫審查通過現在是取得用地的階段"},{"start":12766.972,"end":12786.869,"text":"用地已經同意了,我們已經拿到了臺堂的用地同意函。臺堂的部分沒有問題,現在是私人土地,那邊有一個高爾夫球場。我們沒有高爾夫球場,你弄錯了。中科二期在湖尾。我們全部都已經送到農業部,要等待農業部審查,所以希望農業部可以儘速審查。"},{"start":12795.374,"end":12817.95,"text":"農業部來說明跟委員報告就是有關於相關的這個專案如果說整個院的專案核定了以後農地的變更是一個程序我們一定會配合是拜託部長可以盡速的來審查完成因為這不只對雲林縣很重要對台灣未來的發展也很重要因為中科二期擴大雖然只有32.8公頃但是它連結"},{"start":12821.852,"end":12849.699,"text":"這個保中土庫東勢整個台塘的農場1600公頃放眼未來50年假設AI產業跟半導體要繼續深耕在臺灣的話它上下有整合有充沛的土地包括我們雲林縣有湖山水庫包括海水淡化廠包括我們有集齊蘭河縣的這些水我們有充沛的用水用電包括我們有充沛的這個太陽能光電跟再生能源等等"},{"start":12850.419,"end":12873.957,"text":"用水用電用地都沒有問題可以支撐AI產業跟半導體產業下一個50年在臺灣生根我覺得這可以決定未來臺灣在國際的競爭力所以很希望說今天院長帶領部長這經濟部長農業部長等等大家都在這裡希望你們可以大力的來支持"},{"start":12876.345,"end":12878.867,"text":"經濟部也是一樣,當然行政院長整合以後我們一定是全力支持。"},{"start":12897.602,"end":12907.172,"text":"謝謝部長。當然AI產業是我們重大的產業發展的方向。對於AI產業的發展,院長認為我們目前最大的挑戰是什麼?"},{"start":12911.93,"end":12933.677,"text":"應體的設施跟軟體的加強之外應該是要跟世界各個進步的國家跟廠商都合作但是最重要還是要培育我們足夠的人才是人才是一個很大的就是需求那當然了用電上面我是說全國的這個用電上面也是一個很大的問題啊前幾天我在經濟委員會已經問過了部長就是說"},{"start":12936.638,"end":12938.379,"text":"院長,你覺得我們有辦法負荷得起嗎?"},{"start":12957.874,"end":12978.949,"text":"國部長幾次談過臺電對現在用電的評估到2030前我們還是手上握有相當的餘裕但是要針對高科技的發展現在政府更必須積極的去拓展更多的多元的能源包括我們說展綠發展更多的綠能才能夠滿足業界的需求"},{"start":12979.249,"end":13007.555,"text":"那至於這個細部的怎麼去規劃一些幾個工正在進行的發電機組的補上來這個都是經濟部台電每天在密切注意的東西是當然再生能源綠能這些本席都非常非常的支持我覺得這是一個全世界的趨勢但是院長有考過考慮過以核養綠嗎有沒有考慮再把核三或者是核一核二把它重重啟呢"},{"start":13009.346,"end":13018.17,"text":"就是河山,因為河山今年就要除役了,那可能會有一個6至7%的這個用電缺口,院長怎麼看這個用電缺口?"},{"start":13020.168,"end":13040.814,"text":"我希望透過這個時間也向委員說明河山廠1號機今年7月2號機明年都會處理。對2號機明年5月17。現在現在我是說假設即使要研議的話我們要經過很長的安全檢查的程序。是。汰換箱裡面檢查出後的可能的一些機組的設備零件。"},{"start":13043.143,"end":13070.109,"text":"所以我們在三年半到五年當中河山廠的一號機二號機是不可能發電的所以五年後的問題它能不能發電還是個問題但五年後的狀況不是我們今天面對今天問題可以解決的這一點我也要提醒這個院長就是說其實我們的核能這個發電機我們的使用年限只有歐洲跟這個美國的一半"},{"start":13070.729,"end":13098.776,"text":"歐洲跟美國的使用年限是我們的一倍多所以變成是說其實它的使用年限是可以再增長的那為什麼我們不趕快把它檢查然後把它現在你就可以決定啊現在就可以決定關鍵的時刻是不是我們現在國家正面臨有可能要迎接AI產業高耗電的時間有沒有考慮說在綠能達標之前先用"},{"start":13099.617,"end":13111.83,"text":"這個核電來補足這個缺口呢?西部問題我請國部長再回答我只跟你們報告是40年前我們設核電廠的時候就規定了他的年限就是這個樣子"},{"start":13112.881,"end":13128.672,"text":"那個是政府跟人民的信賴保護原則現在我們要研議也要照核管法的規定五年前提出研議的準備那現在已經過了那個時間了就是希望說假設院長有這樣子的想法的話我相信不管是藍綠"},{"start":13131.013,"end":13147.71,"text":"白都會大力的支持只要院長願意我覺得修法的問題反而是次要反而是我們國家現在面臨的挑戰我們要怎麼樣一起去因應這一點也希望院長可以記在心裡因為這個國家最有力"},{"start":13148.351,"end":13175.058,"text":"希望對國家最有利的這個方式我們可以回歸理性專業的這樣子的討論這一點也拜託院長記在心上那我想部長他是從產業來的他也一定會去做一個專業的評估這一點就拜託院長跟部長好好的思考一下因為本席真的不希望說我們臺灣的這個競爭力就錯失在我們的這個用電供應不足"},{"start":13175.618,"end":13193.286,"text":"部長常常跟我們說安全穩定供電是我們共同關注的我們一樣要把這個事情做好讓部長說明一下報告委員現在這樣就是說這個我們撇開這個法的問題來講的話現在那個核二核三他確實"},{"start":13194.522,"end":13214.444,"text":"你把它降載你一定要先停檢查檢查完了以後可以用才有辦法開啟不能用有危險它是不能用因為安全是我們第一個考量那我跟委員報告就是說我們考慮之前就已經考慮這樣一個現象所以我們到2030年"},{"start":13215.905,"end":13241.02,"text":"所以是有考慮要重啟核能的,所以部長你現在是在告訴本席說其實你心中是有重啟核能的備案是嗎?我們什麼事情都可以考量,事先都可以考量,但是以目前我們是沒有辦法在2030年就是說在這個5年內是沒有辦法使用這個核能,如果它可以使用我們也沒有辦法使用。"},{"start":13241.619,"end":13257.158,"text":"這一點大家我們可以再好好來討論希望可以找出好的辦法因為這個缺電的問題其實是影響不只是產業也影響民生而且是下至每一個人民"},{"start":13257.679,"end":13281.715,"text":"然後上至整體臺灣的未來所以這一點希望說院長跟部長可以記在心上然後趕快的去面對這個問題而不是說粉飾太平說我們沒有缺電問題實際上本席看到的包括上一次跳電我們備載容量只剩下3%只剩下3%就要迎接全台大停電了臺電跟上一任的經濟部長還在說"},{"start":13283.536,"end":13296.03,"text":"完全沒有問題完全沒有問題甚至還一再的否認說他們有在準備就是要就是準備要跳電的問題我覺得真的是我們應該是"},{"start":13298.573,"end":13298.613,"text":"國土計劃法"},{"start":13317.867,"end":13336.071,"text":"但是呢,院長目前2025年國土計劃法就要上路了。雲林是受到影響最大的一個縣市之一。請問院長知不知道國土計劃法裡面預計全國農地的總量是多少公頃嗎?120萬。但是你知道雲林縣被劃為農地有多少嗎?8.9萬公頃。"},{"start":13348.031,"end":13372.986,"text":"是將近全國最高是全國化第一名的縣市而且雲林縣農一農二的土地合計8萬8千多公頃面積真的是超乎如果說以人平均這個農地責任額來說我們是臺北市的638倍您覺得這合理嗎?"},{"start":13373.888,"end":13394.117,"text":"所以我們說雲林縣一直是我們心中的農業大縣所以他的農地也多各方面的條件就是提供臺灣人民很我們的確是農業大縣但我們也想朝農工商高科技並進的城市努力啊我們不想要說我們的農民變成世代農奴而且假設說種田"},{"start":13395.558,"end":13402.364,"text":"所以我們希望台灣均衡發展像剛剛委員所提到的在雲林那個科技園區的發展就是未來雲林再轉型但是雲林的土地當作農業使用它一定有它的傳統未來還是一定維持一定的比例的土地但是轉型的過程當中需要更多的協助"},{"start":13423.402,"end":13450.474,"text":"所以院長本席也想要提出就是說希望這個國土計劃法可以暫緩實施因為目前來說系部規劃不只是雲林縣全台灣很多縣市都有疑慮所以希望說可以把系部都討論完善之後再來實施因為目前可能是我們雲林縣人比較善良盡量按照這個國土署的標準"},{"start":13450.814,"end":13450.834,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":13471.954,"end":13474.695,"text":"我跟委員報告齁,您剛才講的是一個錯誤的訊息喔,因為...你不要再說是我有誤解,來"},{"start":13491.597,"end":13515.655,"text":"這個部分是在各縣市國土審議委員會的時候,我們都...我們沒有誤解,我覺得是你行政有偏差,院長你同意他這樣說嗎?報告委員,在農業發展地區,我們依照他的國土計畫...屏東也是啊,屏東也是一個農業發展地區啊各個縣市應該都是標準一致,不會有特定讀後來的縣市就是這個公文來說,就是院長"},{"start":13516.916,"end":13538.149,"text":"包括部長他本身都說會尊重地方政府劃分的這個權限但是針對我們要劃設農惡的部分才1500公頃這回函裡面說因為沒有通過審查會議所以無法作為劃設的依據不准我們將交流到附近的這個區域劃成農惡而且這些審查依據是農業部提供給內政部的"},{"start":13539.73,"end":13551.218,"text":"那這些就叫做尊重地方畫色的權限嗎?不能理解的是,這是在細部規劃都沒有明確之前呢?為什麼要著急推動啊?可不可以緩一緩呢?"},{"start":13551.857,"end":13554.419,"text":"國土計劃法的實施對於農民的權益還有農地的變更的部分的完全沒有改變所以說核保的農地的保障這個我已經聽過部長講了好幾次其實我也好奇說部長說你對於說農民的權益沒有改變"},{"start":13570.734,"end":13572.995,"text":"我現在要求的就是說標準全國要一致。你所提到的屏東縣政府在24年前的法律。因為雲林縣"},{"start":13597.302,"end":13597.722,"text":"我跟你報告齁"},{"start":13613.912,"end":13635.946,"text":"因為現在目前是縣市政府主導做規劃的那縣市政府召開的國土審議委員會我們都會去參加而且會表我只希望說一句就是說不可能那麼巧吧不可能那麼巧屏東所有的私人土地都剛好符合農二的標準吧報告委員你現在所說的屏東縣的部分是24年前的法律所以呢我希望說部長不要再讓我誤解院長你知道目前有幾個縣市上繳這個區分圖嗎"},{"start":13642.33,"end":13664.927,"text":"目前就我們所知道大概只有四個縣市政府是有困擾的,所以是只有三個,目前只有三個繳交區分圖,期限是6月30以前,為什麼大家都不繳?因為明年就要實施了全國只有三個縣市繳,院長可不可以延後實施呢?有沒有考慮要延後實施呢?"},{"start":13665.347,"end":13666.589,"text":"基本上呢我不是不理解說內政部長也很努力"},{"start":13682.39,"end":13685.995,"text":"但是呢我真心希望說我們不要急救張我們不要急救張我們不是在找你們麻煩我們只是希望說這件事情的實施不要造成民眾的困擾如果可以"},{"start":13698.61,"end":13722.174,"text":"在審慎的研議你緩一緩就算你緩一年緩兩年我們再把它討論得更周延一點對於行政機關其實才是一勞永逸你不會說實施了之後你有問題一堆所以這一點我真的是要特別也要拜託院長拜託部長可以體諒說民眾就算他知道"},{"start":13722.694,"end":13722.834,"text":"委員 報告"},{"start":13741.061,"end":13747.509,"text":"話為農業發展區的部分,他只要從事農業,權益完全不會變。而且更能享受更多的...到底哪裡不會變呢?是不是可以邀請兩位部長到我們雲林縣來跟我們的農民做說明呢?因為你現在在這裡跟我說不會變"},{"start":13755.057,"end":13757.879,"text":"跟農民的理解是完全有落差的。"},{"start":13773.191,"end":13800.325,"text":"部長,你們兩位部長來說明好不好?你們兩位部長親自來說明,我相信你們一定有辦法把它好好一一的說清楚。我本席沒有反對,我只希望說在你們說明白之前可以暫緩實施,好嗎?我希望委員可以告訴我們實際例子上對農民的權利受損的是哪一些地方。因為我的時間有限,我的時間有限,我是不是可以邀請"},{"start":13801.865,"end":13810.367,"text":"院長你可以指示兩位部長到雲林來說明會嗎?我們可以把所有的村里長啊,所有的這個農會啊,所有的這個農民代表都邀請來好好的對他們說明清楚這裡嗎?謝謝,那本期還要再提一個有關於農業權的概念喔。"},{"start":13824.071,"end":13840.957,"text":"就是說在這個國際上已經行之有年而且是廣泛實施的一個制度化的概念這是源自於英國發展權轉移的一個概念Transfer Development Rights在美國馬里蘭州甚至紐澤西州都有類似的制度"},{"start":13841.317,"end":13866.852,"text":"那簡單來說就是說某些縣市必須背負更多的農地責任額那就必須要給予相對性的一個補償以兼顧農地所有權人的權益這才是發展農業的這個長久之計那在巴黎協定當中以開發國家對發展中國家做的氣候補償也是類似的概念不曉得院長有沒有聽過這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":13868.017,"end":13889.613,"text":"農業部已經實施一段時間的對地的綠色補助就是朝這個方向這個理念在進行就是部長想的跟我們所提的這個農業權的概念是有一點點不一樣所以這一點本席也希望說目前我們是有提出一個方案就是每公頃40萬的這樣的補貼但是細部的部分"},{"start":13892.895,"end":13893.656,"text":"跟委員報告一下"},{"start":13916.076,"end":13930.067,"text":"國土計劃法是讓全國的土地有效合理的去運用,所有的劃分全國各縣市標準一次,我們不會讀後哪裡。再來就是它如果真的有需要5年還是可以再檢討的。"},{"start":13930.948,"end":13932.729,"text":"這是我接下來要講的有關於這個院長在說AI創新之上要加上民主元素要做一套這個民主"},{"start":13952.276,"end":13980.771,"text":"沒錯,AI不能去侵害人權對,可以看出院長想要傳達出行政團隊對於民主體制民主原則是非常尊重的這是我們共同追求的目標沒錯,但本席想要請教的就是財政收支劃分法了如果民主的反義詞是極權呢那我們現行的才化法就是一個極權的才化法為什麼這麼說呢因為我們上一次修法呢就是25年前"},{"start":13981.732,"end":13983.372,"text":"中央的想法是財源一定要平均分配到各地方去"},{"start":14010.325,"end":14011.486,"text":"有人有錢嗎?可以做事情。"},{"start":14034.127,"end":14041.918,"text":"所以非直轄市的問題非常嚴重所以我們要開始來規劃財政收支劃分化"},{"start":14044.864,"end":14064.534,"text":"是,所以呢其實當初的賴慶德市長跟賴慶德行政院長他是非常體恤民情的我相信他現在擔任總統也是一樣的當時您是擔任行政院秘書長您應該也很清楚他就是苦民所苦的這樣子的心他也是支持地方自治的是不是?"},{"start":14065.194,"end":14092.134,"text":"所以當時沒有辦法繼續走,就是因為垂直分配水平分配的問題。但是即使在那個之後,中央對地方的各項補助,包括長照,包括全災,包括總統分配款。所以你還是在講一個極權概念嘛,就是說中央要去補助,為什麼不直接劃分給地方呢?因為地方自治就是檢驗民主政治是否真正落實的重要基準啊。對於中央極權的這個概念,為什麼要把這個"},{"start":14094.636,"end":14098.197,"text":"謝謝張家俊委的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告委員會上午的質詢到此為止。我們下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢。我們現在休息。"},{"start":14262.995,"end":14264.155,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":14443.439,"end":14446.698,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":14690.026,"end":14691.783,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21403.763,"end":21405.435,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21545.725,"end":21547.892,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21637.588,"end":21652.08,"text":"報告委員會現在我們繼續開會在議場二樓旁聽的是新店高中的同學我們掌聲歡迎台灣未來的主人翁接下來我們請張雅玲委員質詢"},{"start":21681.796,"end":21684.838,"text":"謝謝主席。我們有請卓院長。麻煩請卓院長備詢。張文豪。院長好。就是說,院長首先請教你一個有趣的問題。就是說,院長你小時候喜不喜歡玩啊?對不起。院長你小時候喜歡玩嗎?"},{"start":21707.697,"end":21735.47,"text":"玩喔?對,小時候。當然你喜歡玩啊,現在也喜歡啊。現在也喜歡喔?那為什麼你喜歡玩?玩給你帶來什麼樣子的感受?快樂。快樂,對不對?好喔!其實啊,遊戲啊,可以帶來,在佛洛伊德它是說遊戲是對應社會壓力的一個安全閥門。就是說它其實就像它帶給我們多的快樂,非常的開心。那不過也非常多研究也告訴我們說,玩不僅只是開心而已,它也帶來很多身心健康,是對兒童的發展非常重要的一件事情。"},{"start":21736.124,"end":21760.798,"text":"但是大多數的大人不了解所以我今天會花一些篇幅來做個說明首先我先讓院長來看一下我們現在孩子遇到的一個困境就是說現在的孩子自殺率跟智商率是節節上升那最主要的壓力來源是來自於精神疾患可能是焦慮憂鬱然後我有一些是學習網路等等的那當然也有家庭的關係那再來再讓院長看一個可怕的數字"},{"start":21761.118,"end":21788.936,"text":"就是說在我們的早療人口呢其實我們的早療人數在今年屢創新高已經突破了10萬人那同時呢我們的孩子過胖的問題跟相比10年之前也增加了2到4個百分點等於是說我們的肥胖的人數是越來越多了同樣最新的這個月的親子天下他做一個針對五年級到國中的學生做一個調查每10個孩子就有3個孩子害怕失敗"},{"start":21790.097,"end":21816.557,"text":"院長疫情結束了白宮百業都在慢慢復甦了但是我們孩子的身心健康卻是逐漸的惡化現在孩子生的這麼少那我們是不是能夠一起努力把每一個孩子都顧好推百萬不來講我們要講AI這件事情但是沒有人也是往來所以院長你認為我們是不是應該為孩子的身心健康來一個校正回歸"},{"start":21817.905,"end":21839.905,"text":"當然委員報告這個疫情之後不僅是經濟要復甦人跟人之間的往來也歷經了一段幾乎是比較隔絕冷漠的時代是從成人到小孩都歷經這個時段對說成人可能心理上的建設比較強一點但小孩子經過那一段對他以後的會發展我們應該施予更大的關心跟協助"},{"start":21840.225,"end":21865.947,"text":"同意因為孩子的身心健康跟環境跟時間都非常仰賴政府的一個政策以及大人的一個態度所以我剛剛講的這些問題其實全世界都面臨一模一樣的問題所以不管是每個美國的小兒科醫學會也好或是那個聯合國或是各國都有相關的醫療的研究來告訴一個很重要的解方一個早期介入早期預防的解方其實就是遊戲就是玩"},{"start":21868.251,"end":21881.237,"text":"我這邊引用了一下世界經濟論壇他講了一句話叫做遊戲帶來心理的韌性那不僅只是心理韌性他也可以發展情緒智商啊解決能力啊創造力啊這些都是"},{"start":21882.136,"end":21898.438,"text":"未來五年,非常重要的工作技能,還是非常重要的軟實力,對應到我們現在要發展AI,所以如果我們可以把孩子的身心打底顧得好的話,我們不僅是讓他可以健健康康的長大,我們還可以為國所用。"},{"start":21898.999,"end":21925.109,"text":"好,所以這件事情是非常重要,所以要玩一定要有時間跟空間。那去年的民間團體做了一個訪談,我想這倒不意外,小孩自己說了,這30個小孩說下課放學跟假日其實我都沒有時間有戲啦,因為我可能都要寫功課啊,老師有時候會玩,會有很多在週末連假會有更多的作業。然後小孩甚至說了一句話,他說我的上班時間比我的爸爸媽媽還要長。好,那"},{"start":21928.297,"end":21940.95,"text":"那小孩也有說就算是下課老師可能也會叫他去跑步跑操場因為要完成一項作業叫做SH150所以就變成說小孩其實根本沒有時間玩那再來呢運動場地"},{"start":21944.008,"end":21966.894,"text":"空間的部分我們從奧運的項目這是奧運的項目我們可以看到他年年都有新的項目所以等於是他推陳出新持續的去貼近青少年的一個喜好可是我們現在給的場地大多還是籃球場、操場這些東西我們可以從事多元的活動項目其實是非常少的所以非常需要政府有計畫的來推動新增新興項目的兒少活動場域"},{"start":21970.469,"end":21980.158,"text":"其實我們也做了非常多事情,衛福部在2018年其實有因應肥胖推出一個全民身體活動指引,教育部也有推出一個剛剛講的SH150,所以要激發兒童的運動興趣、動機,每週應該要達到150分鐘的遊戲活動時間。"},{"start":21990.208,"end":22012.902,"text":"可是我們可以看到左邊這份報告由臺灣體育運動大學及中興大學在近期發表的臺灣兒童及青少年身體活動報告書他顯示的是什麼我們跟2018年比做這麼多事情我們的身體活動量還是不及格的還是一個F等級跟世界組織要求的每日運動時間只有百分之不到20的青少年可以達成"},{"start":22014.741,"end":22043.72,"text":"我想這些方案我們都執行了那麼久還是沒有成效我們是有必要做一個全面性的檢討那今年呢這是第一次聯合國他串聯了140個國家要來通過這個6月11號為國際遊戲日他其中強調4點呼籲政府來優先來做來達成這個NSDGS相關的成果第一個就是遊戲式親子教養學前教育還有保護兒童遊戲空間不受氣候政策影響等等整合性的遊戲式教學"},{"start":22044.861,"end":22065.468,"text":"那我想要請教院長的就是說許多國家其實都有一些本土的遊戲研究或是一些研討會但台灣是非常缺乏的就我所知最近一次辦的還是民間自己發起的所以我想我們剛剛看了這麼多身心的問題那我們是不是可以來要求衛福部"},{"start":22065.828,"end":22067.429,"text":"謝謝委員我們知道委員常年在推動特色公園也因為這樣得到社會很大的肯定那個就是一個在地的"},{"start":22094.227,"end":22110.269,"text":"小朋友的遊憩場所能夠讓他在一個在地環境裡面成長的一個很好的一個設計那將來我看委員現在提出來這些問題是把它升級成為一個更多元更國際化更心理層面的"},{"start":22111.03,"end":22131.604,"text":"那這個部分我想在對小孩、小朋友的這個心理的輔導我們也一直要加強那如果能夠遇這個是輔導娛樂那能夠讓他產生更好的效益是不是請衛福部啊能夠來提提現在他目前已經在進行的相若干的計畫是的報告委員那我想"},{"start":22133.401,"end":22151.87,"text":"國民健康署非常注重兒童的身心健康我們的心理健康師也一直在推相關的一些活動成效都相當的好在健康未來健康臺灣的一些策略裡面也特別到小孩子的心理跟社會素質的一個學習"},{"start":22154.315,"end":22182.128,"text":"那我相信這個都跟委員在...抱歉部長我打斷一下就是說我知道我們有做這些兒童健康但是坦白說我們其實都是從身體活動來說我們並沒有從遊戲這個角度來切對所以我才會說因為其實我們對本土的研究是相當相當的少現在即便是民間的社團引用都是國際研究的數字所以我們是不是可以有一個本土性的研究好瞭解我們台灣兒童的遊戲的現況跟困境然後來制定一個相關的遊戲級的國家級的一個遊戲政策這部分是可以的嗎"},{"start":22184.079,"end":22209.918,"text":"我們也可以請教育部再說明一下他現在目前部裡面的計畫謝謝委員的一個提醒我想我非常同意委員所說的就遊戲玩性太多的國外的一些研究的證據包括國內研究證據也都支持它是有助於兒童的這個想像力創造力的一些提升包括再透過遊戲能夠有很多的遊戲規則環對所以我想"},{"start":22213.3,"end":22241.901,"text":"有一個更清楚的這個兒童遊戲一個政策這個研究我想我們很樂意來進行所以是由教育部來執行這個計畫嗎?沒有問題好 謝謝教育部部長願意承擔這件事情來做這個國家級的研究跟相關的政策所以這部分的話我們後續再追一下部長這個相關的時程那再來就是說我們剛剛講了時間那再來就是空間這件事情上面不是跳舞業幫我回到上一頁好嗎?"},{"start":22246.088,"end":22269.626,"text":"那就是我們在時間上面其實我覺得我們需要發起一個叫做跨部會的合作跨部會一起來支持例如就是說因為其實剛剛講了就是時間空間之外還有人家長可不可以支持所以目前的話我們是不是可以一起來做很多事情讓家長一起來支持就例如說早試習的時間是不是可以鼓勵小孩來遊戲而不是考試"},{"start":22270.026,"end":22297.449,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":22297.871,"end":22322.017,"text":"第三個部分就是我們的公園我先講一下經濟部好了經濟部的部分我們是不是可以來講說如果他今天企業做了一些支持兒童的遊戲支持兒童的政策的話我們可以把它變成一個ESG的一個指標一個納進這個成果的一個積分指標這樣這是可以的嗎我剛講這三件事情衛福部、教育部、內政部"},{"start":22323.63,"end":22346.354,"text":"委員建議的這是一個很好的方式,我們也鼓勵企業多多來對社會做更多的社會的投資,那這一點剛好也是可以把它納進來,我們好好的來研究。那院長不好意思,我們是不是可以有一個跨部會的平台呢?就是讓它實際的可以去,不是只是我們講講就好,而是可以實際的去稽查監督呢?我們可不可以成立這樣的跨部會的平台?"},{"start":22347.486,"end":22362.621,"text":"我是不是剛剛這個教育部已經有計畫在進行,我請教育把計畫能夠再精密的這個設計出來,那將來一定會有一些跨部會的合作。我們那個時候再來想用什麼樣的機制,或者透過什麼樣的會議來把它形成更完善的這個體制好不好。"},{"start":22363.362,"end":22364.042,"text":"內政部內政部"},{"start":22382.113,"end":22388.816,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分我們是不是應該要來好好處理尤其是說在公園的圍管上面我們常常遇到一些人力物力、圍管工法的困難可是現在無人可管"},{"start":22406.503,"end":22426.478,"text":"現在沒有一個組織單位可以管,就是在我們的組織法以前我們在以前舊的版本我們是有市區公園的建設在裡面可是新的組織法裡面公園卻消失了可是沒有一個組織機關到底誰來訂立一些相關的指引跟規範這是對地方的公園進行一些督導這是現在是"},{"start":22427.819,"end":22431.363,"text":"是不是可以請院長來請內政部是要來提組織法修法還是說在修法過渡期間我們可以由內政部來擔任主管機關?"},{"start":22440.416,"end":22468.592,"text":"是的,我們也發現到剛剛委員所提到的城鄉的落差,均衡臺灣到現在還是一個相當要努力的方向。所以我們在提出均衡臺灣在地希望,希望把所有的水平都往上拉高。那公園的主管,我記得以前台北市政府還有公園路燈管理處。對。現在可能沒有一個很適當的主管機關,是不是這個意思?是中央的部會,中央部會沒有。應該也是有,地方政府應該是有的。"},{"start":22468.672,"end":22485.824,"text":"地方政府是有可是變成是中央是沒有人去來協助地方做這件事情所以變成是說地方就自己做自己的有問題的話他們也不知道到底可以請教誰所以才想說是不是可以請內政部來在這個修法期間因為過去也是由內政部來管嘛我們現在是不是可以請內政部來持續擔任這個主管機關"},{"start":22487.566,"end":22504.948,"text":"謝謝院長。章委員非常注重這個特色公園的建立。目前所有的公園除了國家公園是由我們內政部來主管以外,那其他的縣市政府來主管。那他們在推動的過程當中包括建設有督導的事項的話就由我們內政部來幫忙督導。"},{"start":22505.768,"end":22535.408,"text":"OK好謝謝喔謝謝謝謝部長喔那再來喔就是說我想接下來討論一個轉型正義的議題喔轉型正義目前我想之前今天早上才過了這個黨產條例要送這個委員會來討論喔但是我對卓院長還是非常有信心喔因為院長過去也曾經在2020年擔任民進黨黨主席的時候也有說過這只是個起頭我們要持續的努力的來做那接下來就是促轉基金這件事情喔目前的使用還是由各部會自己來做一些使用"},{"start":22537.068,"end":22561.874,"text":"但是呢...抱歉上夜跳掉了抱歉就是說我們在想是不是可以仿造東德啦或是族群和諧基金啊我們可不可以有更一些創意的做法讓民間的創意可以進來這件事情是不是可以因為像東德的做法非常的多元嘛那我想我們也必須要讓大家來了解人民是一起來參加這個轉型正義的行動"},{"start":22562.834,"end":22588.453,"text":"例如上個月,我們的很多的民眾來全臺灣發起了這個青鳥行動。我想這個青鳥行動,它是代表的是我們過去的民主前輩的努力、奮鬥,在每個人的心上扎了這個自由的根。所以才會讓大家遇到這樣子,憲政體制要被崩壞的時候,主動的站出來捍衛我們的臺灣人權,捍衛臺灣的這個體制。所以我認為青鳥行動不是偶然,是一個必然。"},{"start":22589.073,"end":22600.738,"text":"所以我們就必須要繼續做,所以不曉得是不是可以邀請人權,呃,行政院來當,來研擬這個促轉基金,益助民間的這個機制,讓我們的民間可以公司協力,讓這個民主人權可以更加的活化。"},{"start":22606.101,"end":22632.261,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":22637.918,"end":22637.938,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":22662.93,"end":22671.388,"text":"這是兒童遊行宣言這是兒童遊行宣言他們講一些心聲那我也希望會代表兒童來送入你們的院長讓他瞭解他的過於進展"},{"start":22690.939,"end":22691.76,"text":"謝謝蔣曉琳委員,謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第38號,邱振軍委員質詢。"},{"start":22718.801,"end":22722.026,"text":"主席好,我們有請左院長麻煩再請左院長備選"},{"start":22731.355,"end":22751.53,"text":"委員長好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得滿感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題"},{"start":22753.231,"end":22780.278,"text":"當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃園株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案"},{"start":22781.072,"end":22810.553,"text":"我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨禁求援"},{"start":22812.064,"end":22831.336,"text":"國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫"},{"start":22832.722,"end":22851.528,"text":"我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來,那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃,我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?"},{"start":22854.708,"end":22877.183,"text":"跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。所以苗栗有沒有機會,剛剛我講這些有沒有辦法?第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,"},{"start":22877.944,"end":22878.504,"text":"好的,這個我們可以來研議另外"},{"start":22906.738,"end":22934.661,"text":"我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩"},{"start":22935.748,"end":22960.906,"text":"那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多澄清,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。"},{"start":22962.143,"end":22984.58,"text":"舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的就有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?"},{"start":22987.089,"end":23009.085,"text":"今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。"},{"start":23010.186,"end":23028.641,"text":"所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有他是合法的就沒問題合法的都沒問題那不合法的本來就是不合法現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處不會因為國土計畫改變了以後非法的就完全一夕之間變合法"},{"start":23030.866,"end":23049.368,"text":"因為有些說實在它是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,它本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。"},{"start":23050.364,"end":23063.78,"text":"當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好"},{"start":23064.5,"end":23089.128,"text":"那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整體的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說"},{"start":23089.848,"end":23101.654,"text":"國土計畫土地使用管理規則裏面預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了要以哪個為主"},{"start":23111.485,"end":23112.926,"text":"總量管制是誰限制的?"},{"start":23132.332,"end":23148.969,"text":"就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,那土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。"},{"start":23149.97,"end":23176.398,"text":"對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫"},{"start":23178.558,"end":23204.617,"text":"這個法的制定過程中有一在反映業界的需求也有向我們這邊來反映那內政部這邊不接受那未來有擴廠需求的廠商就會碰到這種問題我想這個問題是不是能夠有一個明確的一個說法你剛剛講那個其實是蠻含糊的那個處理下來是蠻我想各個那個承辦每個縣市的承辦人員一定聽不懂你講什麼到時候各自解釋"},{"start":23205.679,"end":23233.246,"text":"而導致產業這個發展受損,我想這是非常這個不好的。也希望我們這邊能夠兩個部會裡面盡快的來溝通,這樣好嗎?可以。好的,謝謝。好,那請部長回去。那我再請教院長,足跡處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質這個薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?"},{"start":23234.926,"end":23250.432,"text":"跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字,我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式。但是傳統上它就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,"},{"start":23251.277,"end":23268.597,"text":"那麼會讓答不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕。因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼。"},{"start":23269.91,"end":23293.015,"text":"是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多"},{"start":23295.842,"end":23319.308,"text":"這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟它是有感情是接近的"},{"start":23319.749,"end":23321.052,"text":"對阿,因為這個確實這樣,院長你這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊"},{"start":23325.322,"end":23354.327,"text":"主席總書這邊能夠回去以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好"},{"start":23355.063,"end":23383.06,"text":"報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們"},{"start":23383.78,"end":23386.061,"text":"我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情談到權力大家都快要翻臉了"},{"start":23409.45,"end":23433.588,"text":"國民黨最近在提修這個我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?中央政府的財政跟地方政府的財政都應該做合理的規劃在目前來看中央政府每年從一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款對地方政府的補助各項是逐年在增加的"},{"start":23433.848,"end":23438.669,"text":"我們的賴清德總統在2012年的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當現在的時空背景不一樣"},{"start":23460.66,"end":23462.202,"text":"您認為有沒有需要改進?"},{"start":23475.66,"end":23476.881,"text":"我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的"},{"start":23494.395,"end":23508.963,"text":"我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊"},{"start":23516.627,"end":23542.607,"text":"也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下"},{"start":23543.227,"end":23572.086,"text":"跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的"},{"start":23572.659,"end":23592.209,"text":"那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總數其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方"},{"start":23599.434,"end":23613.932,"text":"後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境"},{"start":23616.584,"end":23642.801,"text":"這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力"},{"start":23643.453,"end":23671.48,"text":"相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改那我希望"},{"start":23674.377,"end":23675.378,"text":"我們當然是希望現在的才化法"},{"start":23700.214,"end":23702.136,"text":"你只要給苗栗縣多一點他就不會跟你要錢啊 對不對"},{"start":23727.538,"end":23733.162,"text":"我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要招單全收我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談"},{"start":23756.54,"end":23776.609,"text":"因為這是關乎於整個臺灣的一個發展。我不希望它變成一個政治鬥爭的一個工具。讓整個臺灣在空轉。院長你支持這樣的說法嗎?行政院現在就是依照現在的財政收支發分辦法來做執行。那我們現在有用這個...有沒有想要調整呢?目前在這個..."},{"start":23778.038,"end":23780.78,"text":"這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。對不對,那這樣子的話每個縣市"},{"start":23802.823,"end":23818.123,"text":"我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為才化法應該也是最近也會來三讀那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們真的整個"},{"start":23824.406,"end":23836.27,"text":"中央還是要有很強的財政的這個分配的比例。比方說現在這次花蓮的震災,一下子拿出這麼多錢。這就是中央急了很多的錢才有辦法做到的。所以天災地變"},{"start":23837.586,"end":23866.005,"text":"這個能力的應付,絕對是要把它考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的世衛委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書,你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?"},{"start":23867.96,"end":23892.572,"text":"因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?"},{"start":23893.561,"end":23917.807,"text":"因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡拿。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛,那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。"},{"start":23919.52,"end":23919.98,"text":"那接下來還是民生的問題"},{"start":23945.444,"end":23968.533,"text":"我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水、無自來水地區供水改善第5期的計畫那本期看到是近3年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第4名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎?"},{"start":23970.011,"end":23970.711,"text":"其實是這樣,我跟院長報告"},{"start":23996.345,"end":24007.088,"text":"我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的"},{"start":24007.619,"end":24033.046,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":24034.229,"end":24059.539,"text":"偏遠的地方,我們尤其是原住民等無知來水的地區,成本超過60萬的申請案件根本就沒有辦法獲得核定。這是最主要的一個原因。那我也希望說,我們院長能夠提高這個限制。我知道經濟部水利署好像也向行政院申請監管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高,對吧?"},{"start":24061.365,"end":24082.695,"text":"我們現在是這樣子,如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用,那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式。那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難?這當然還要再去仔細的去看看它執行的結果如何。我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了嘛,它好像要提高到80萬元一戶啊。"},{"start":24084.713,"end":24110.935,"text":"希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。"},{"start":24113.039,"end":24136.399,"text":"應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島"},{"start":24139.136,"end":24148.629,"text":"過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬"},{"start":24152.193,"end":24152.213,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":24169.807,"end":24191.099,"text":"那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下"},{"start":24193.956,"end":24222.898,"text":"我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平啊?報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾漏落堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明"},{"start":24224.54,"end":24238.742,"text":"報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的"},{"start":24239.002,"end":24239.542,"text":"有地方可以掩埋了嗎?"},{"start":24261.435,"end":24284.756,"text":"目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊"},{"start":24285.196,"end":24285.877,"text":"我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議"},{"start":24308.235,"end":24335.682,"text":"就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量"},{"start":24336.715,"end":24344.177,"text":"我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的"},{"start":24365.043,"end":24369.486,"text":"謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們"},{"start":24393.545,"end":24411.742,"text":"謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分84萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成"},{"start":24412.342,"end":24439.393,"text":"就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的這個...報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?"},{"start":24440.414,"end":24467.113,"text":"希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個"},{"start":24468.81,"end":24492.726,"text":"實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?"},{"start":24493.482,"end":24522.051,"text":"對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽應該要快一點緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝"},{"start":24522.751,"end":24525.252,"text":"謝謝邱政經委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢"},{"start":24567.944,"end":24575.311,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院卓院長還有法務部政部長。再請卓院長、政部長備選。好,院長好。"},{"start":24586.733,"end":24610.211,"text":"現在我們行政院已經把這個國會擴成法案已經提請復議了嘛然後我們立法院會在下個禮拜五來進行表決但是我可以預期啦雖然早上院長說你蠻樂觀的但我沒有這麼樂觀因為我認為在現在藍白還是非常執迷不悟而且暫時沒有悔改可能的情況下下個禮拜的表決結果還是非常有可能被否決"},{"start":24611.092,"end":24630.742,"text":"那我的認為是這樣子啦所以其實近一個月我接到非常多民眾的陳情他們都表達極度的擔憂跟焦慮他們在焦慮什麼呢他們因為其實我最近把所有我們可行的方案都告訴民眾了說我們一定會窮盡一切可能努力到最後一刻守護我們的憲政體制守護我們民主的權益"},{"start":24634.144,"end":24656.456,"text":"但是民眾還是很擔心啊他們覺得好像我們現在手無寸鐵怎麼辦呢尤其是接下來即便我們民進黨團體的釋憲但是在憲法法庭宣判之前或是大法官核可這個暫時處分之前是不是會有一個落地的空窗期呢那我不知道說行政院現在針對這件事情有沒有做好最壞的打算"},{"start":24657.316,"end":24673.764,"text":"什麼叫做最壞的打算呢?我先講一下說其實這段時間以來已經是上百位的法律學者以及三百位以上的律師都站出來說這一部法律就是侵害人民的基本權益然後也有非常多的外媒已經直接警示"},{"start":24674.264,"end":24699.551,"text":"甚至直接說這部法律就是臺灣立法院的過度擴權而且也說這部法案的內容是親中而且削弱總統的權利的甚至也有日媒直接說國民黨就是中國的特洛伊木馬那當然這個都是外媒的解讀那我是要問啦假設啦下禮拜真的復議失敗了然後我們提復議了我不知道行政院這邊有沒有打算也來提釋憲"},{"start":24700.791,"end":24713.216,"text":"因為其實行政院是可以提釋憲的嘛那站在行政權的角度你們有什麼理由以及用你們憲政機關的高度來論述這一部擴權法案現在對於行政體系的衝擊呢?"},{"start":24715.021,"end":24740.675,"text":"謝謝委員我想委員跟我都很清楚目前國會的生態我早上說我只是比較樂觀是因為我必須這樣我才能夠在這個禮拜花一些時間去處理其他重要的公務我如果每天很悲觀的在這個情境裡面那大概很多事情是無法進行所以我必須要抱持這樣的心情但是我也相信如果有經過公開合理而且非常理性的討論"},{"start":24742.437,"end":24762.095,"text":"這個案子不一定完全是不可能的我因為我相信委員都還是有正義感在身的他們還是會發揮出來的那是不是可能大家共同來努力那當然作為一個憲政機關我們依照憲政秩序的設計提出復議這個是我們的責任但除了憲政機關的這個角色之外我覺得因為這個職權行使法"},{"start":24763.997,"end":24789.136,"text":"並不是單純就立法委員內部的質詢行使。他牽扯到人民、法人、部隊以及政府官員。沒錯。要牽扯到人民權益有可能受損。行政機關一定要有責任來保護人民的這個權益。所以我們在這個立場上也必須也可以提出這樣的復議。但是復議的結果如果不是朝我樂觀的想像當中的話那未來"},{"start":24790.037,"end":24804.544,"text":"他呈現另外一種結果出現那憲政秩序上、憲政的設計上還是有再下去的這個救濟的方式那我想我們還是跟委員剛剛所說的我們窮盡一切的可能來維護憲政機關、維護願績的分立、維護人民的權益"},{"start":24808.098,"end":24823.187,"text":"好謝謝院長在這邊幫院長來加油一下啦這個對於行政體系的衝擊真的非常的大喔因為其實這段時間因為民眾也一直在跟我說他真的好擔心喔怎麼辦接下來人民會不會被調查啊因為他其實在這一部法律"},{"start":24824.027,"end":24840.197,"text":"擴傳下去真的是有可能調查人民的包括叫人民提供資料還不得拒絕甚至是他要請律師還要經過主席同意然後你沒有提供資料或是被認為是虛偽陳述都有可能被立法院要罰你錢啊甚至是按次要處罰"},{"start":24841.198,"end":24862.515,"text":"那這個刑法就更不用說了這個藐視國會罪我不知道現在的所有的官員坐在上面有沒有都瑟瑟發抖擔心自己說錯話就犯了這個藐視國會罪就要被關有可能被處一年以下的有期徒刑甚至是20萬的罰金那當然啦其實大家都很擔心被這部法律影響"},{"start":24863.215,"end":24869.58,"text":"我必須接觸每一個人是的我必須要說在人權的保障上並不是用百分比來看待對嗎?是的"},{"start":24891.147,"end":24920.491,"text":"只要有一個人受到侵害就是侵害這就是我們作為一個人權國家最基本的保障嘛每一個人都應該要被接住啊怎麼會說99.9%的人沒有受影響就沒事呢好那再來請教一下我們法務部長喔您是檢察官出身對嗎是好部長請教一下喔這部三讀通過的法律裡面讓立委可以來調閱司法或是監察機關的文件的副本請問您怎麼看"},{"start":24922.135,"end":24949.618,"text":"這部分還是要依據那個參佐那個釋字585號解釋的來做一個處理他那個585號解釋當然這個立法院有調卷的一個權利但是也必須要跟他立法院立法委員的固有的職權有重大的關聯這個限制才能夠做一個調卷那我想這個是在585號解釋已經講得非常的一個清楚了那至於立法院這一次的"},{"start":24950.3,"end":24979.146,"text":"此前的一個刑事法這部分應該有依託請問偵查中的案件可以被調閱嗎?偵查中的案件是不能夠被調閱的那所以這部法律下去對檢警體系會有什麼樣的影響?我想應該是會有影響因為他那個有些只有在偵查中的這部分是偵查不公開就是依刑訴訟法這部分是不能公開的那我想這部分我們是"},{"start":24980.887,"end":24984.837,"text":"我想這個其實監察院的條件我們都是就是必須要依照這個一個規定的"},{"start":24986.36,"end":25014.199,"text":"好 這個就是我希望法務部接下來要堅守的立場因為我講一句比較難聽的啦因為其實我們現在國民黨啊有一些委員他們涉入一些案件例如說詐欺、土利、洩密、收受回饋、內線交易等等這些形式案件假設啦這個國會擴權法案下去他們跟我們現在監禁說他們要調這些案件的進度然後他們要去看這些偵辦中的案件的資料"},{"start":25015.401,"end":25031.76,"text":"會不會影響我們檢調的偵辦的進度?會不會影響這一些案件在作為你們司法獨立審判的這個過程當中的一些輿論或者是串供或者是任何偵查上面的影響?"},{"start":25036.885,"end":25056.321,"text":"所以啦我必須要說現在這整部法律就是一台非常這我就一直說這是一個垃圾法案啦他就是一個拼裝車然後一團混亂因為裡面沒有規範到任何對立委自己的自律的要求沒有任何利益迴避的這些規定執行上對你們來說真的會有非常大的問題啊"},{"start":25057.782,"end":25074.809,"text":"好謝謝我們先請那個部長先回座那我們院長先留在這邊那接下來我請教一下因為接著這個國會擴權法案我講一下說現在其實中國對台灣的各種各式各樣的威脅是非常大的這個我我把近期其實從1月到現在"},{"start":25076.61,"end":25099.876,"text":"的這種威脅列出來喔像是現在軍事繞台軍機繞台軍事演習軍事威脅然後各種的借選跟網路攻擊還有片面的更改M503的航線甚至是中國的海警強登金門的觀光船還有發射火箭飛越我國上空等等然後甚至是還派了武官在捷克來跟蹤我們蕭美琴副總統"},{"start":25101.016,"end":25117.628,"text":"的這種行為都有在發生。好謝謝我們主委直接上來了。那我想要講一下就是說這個延續這個國會擴權法案來談是因為這個擴權法案裡面也有可能變成是瓦解台灣國防的破口。"},{"start":25118.288,"end":25132.707,"text":"我不知道我們國防部跟我們陸委會主委如何看待這部法律有沒有去評估過這部法律下去對你們會不會有相關的影響就例如說我們現在要做潛艦國造好了"},{"start":25133.55,"end":25161.251,"text":"那這個他們用國會調查權來調查弊案然後說國防部請你們提供淺見深聞的資料那我們這些重大的機密資料你必須要提供如果你們沒有提供就給你們開罰這種情況會不會發生呢我不知道你們有沒有在心裡先把最壞的打算想過一遍沒關係先不用回答那這個我必須要講說現在的這個法案下去確實是也有可能造成這樣的問題"},{"start":25162.552,"end":25183.419,"text":"那再來我要請教的是其實還是我們院長啦因為其實現在我們立法院裡面躺了非常多的乾坑法案就我所知就你所知這個光是花東的三法兩兆的花東三法還有已經許多委員提到的才化法的修正有可能要吃掉我們中央5777億"},{"start":25186.96,"end":25195.756,"text":"我不知道你有沒有想過接下來如果照這個版本通過財化法將近6千億少了之後你們會受到什麼影響?"},{"start":25196.633,"end":25214.118,"text":"就是中央政府在財政的對地方補助以及一些天災地變的因應跟一些其他的長期的或是或者是每年都發生的或是單次發生的一些緊急事件那我們在失去了靈活運用的能力其實5700之外的9000億包括"},{"start":25219.035,"end":25237.967,"text":"統籌分配稅款一般補助款跟計劃性補助款每年將近9000億那也是已經補助給地方為優先的所以如果再把這個變成一個齊頭式的水平式的分配的話那中央會失去這個能力很多的事情就沒有辦法在短時間內為地方做更多的努力"},{"start":25238.929,"end":25264.174,"text":"沒錯,尤其是我是高雄的立委啦,我們高雄過去也是如果沒有中央這樣子可以靈活運用以及注重地方橫平性注重城鄉發展這樣的精神的話其實我們地方還是非常可憐的喔,很多事情都做不了,大眾運輸也做不了然後這種從中央什麼育兒津貼租屋補助到社會住宅都做不了"},{"start":25265.194,"end":25288.49,"text":"所以中央統籌分配還是非常重要的我希望你們要堅守這個立場接下來在不管各縣市大家一起來協商的時候一定要注重城鄉發展跟地方的衡平好不好是的這個拜託要請院長堅守喔那我剛剛會提到這個現在有這麼多的乾坑法案是因為我們中央的財政紀律要嚴守"},{"start":25289.531,"end":25294.575,"text":"是的,我們不希望這些將中央財政削弱的這些很多的法案同時出現在國會裡面那同時讓它變成一個立法來拘束中央如果這樣的形成的話,剛剛說的中央這財政應變的能力就完全喪失了"},{"start":25317.671,"end":25319.512,"text":"好必須要說現在立法院躺了非常多的財政的惡法為什麼說這些也是惡法呢因為"},{"start":25340,"end":25358.85,"text":"這些法案都一再的說他們要提高預算然後幫這邊加一點那邊加一點但是完全沒有考慮到財政的評估是完全毀壞了財政的紀律的就例如說現在昨天我們省的這個反年改啊就是好不容易我們把這個年改改了之後我們省了大概2800億"},{"start":25360.331,"end":25376.511,"text":"如果照他們的版本下去這2800億等於完全沒了嘛那再包括這個才化法的近6000億然後花東三法兩照然後還有我們現在他們也要修老人福利法說65歲健保要免費然後大概也要花個400億"},{"start":25377.913,"end":25377.933,"text":"請院長。"},{"start":25393.753,"end":25414.762,"text":"國際改革的很多法案是為了國家的永續的發展跟生存也為了讓軍人這個常任久用常用久任的這個原則所以如果今天改回去那變成走回頭路過去改革的精神完全被破壞那國家財政回復到改革之前的困難也不是大家所樂見的所以我們會逐一的來檢視現在在"},{"start":25417.003,"end":25438.008,"text":"法案當中埋下對中央政府財政設計的這樣的法案,我們認為它也違反相關的法律。那我們必須在大院裡面或是在委員會裡面,我們據理力爭,充分的說明。我希望大家還是用中央地方充分合作的角度來看國家的財政,會比較健全。"},{"start":25438.39,"end":25458.558,"text":"好這個一定要拜託我們院裡所有每個部會都一定要堅守這個精神啦就是因為其實看得出來現在立法院有一群人真的就是在掏空國家不管是財政還是媒體上面還是所有的防線都不斷的在架空你們"},{"start":25459.378,"end":25486.191,"text":"那我認為這個對於國家的影響非常重、非常嚴重那最後一點時間我要講一下因為這個其實也是最近送進來我發現跟我們國家非常有關係的就是這個兩岸監督條例因為其實我們過去在太陽花在主張的就是說要來可以進行兩岸的政治協議之前都要有一個非常嚴格的把關機制所以我們也在兩岸條例裡面在民進黨時期把它收進去了就是五支三條可是現在民眾黨開了一個後門"},{"start":25487.952,"end":25489.233,"text":"就是把經濟跟政治協議分開"},{"start":25521.237,"end":25547.475,"text":"好 這個要拜託因為以目前民眾黨的版本下去就是在放寬我們兩岸監督條例的底線甚至是把四分之三出席四分之三同意這樣的門檻都降低了無疑就是在因應中共現在跟我們之間的協議的這個底線我認為是非常嚴重的拜託陸委會針對這件事情一定要做好把關"},{"start":25550.356,"end":25552.2,"text":"謝謝黃婕委員質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第40號廖先祥委員質詢。"},{"start":25575.93,"end":25580.592,"text":"好,謝謝院長。麻煩幫我要請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備選。好,院長好。兩人好。剛上任喔,大家認識一下喔。誰要先想啊?本人頭髮比較少啦,不好意思,比較胖一點。"},{"start":25597.366,"end":25614.179,"text":"好,這個,院長,我先首先請教一個問題喔,就是您在剛上任的時候,我們洪孟凱書記長在31號在立法院被選,包括邱正軍委員剛有提問,NCC的委員,行政院在4月30號已經提名了嘛。"},{"start":25614.679,"end":25641.164,"text":"那針對這些NCC的委員請問一下我們左院長您是要選擇替這份名單背書還是會提出其他的人選那當時您的回答您的回答是說會檢視名單在最短的時間內讓立法院看到我想十多天兩個禮拜過去了您的回覆目前有沒有最新回覆謝謝委員的提醒因為這個名單現在在大院裡面我不曉得這個程序上如果"},{"start":25642.452,"end":25662.53,"text":"大約還會再討論這個案子的話那程序就會繼續走阿如果不討論的話應該我們也可以有一個其他的想法所以您目前是對這個247人事案你沒有自己的立場剛剛委員在隨詢的時候我說過是不是跟草野各黨團談一下這個現在送來的名單到底他還是不是將目前要審"},{"start":25663.73,"end":25683.561,"text":"照程序陳院長算的名單當然算數嘛。但是我們立法院也要看一下我們現任行政院長責任政治嘛責任政治您要為陳建仁院長的名單背書還是您要提自己的名單我們也要看一下院長的看法還是說您對於NCC人士沒有立場就"},{"start":25684.892,"end":25685.032,"text":"國人實質薪資"},{"start":25715.256,"end":25730.017,"text":"也在今天也造成了許多討論嘛,那網友嘛,網友就說6萬3剛剛看了幾啦齁,那針對於這樣的數字齁,我想還是先讓我們的行政部會有一個再解釋一下,針對網友的解讀嘛齁,"},{"start":25730.618,"end":25735.322,"text":"我原則性先向委員答覆因為我還沒有公佈前看到這個數字我們也是跟主席總書說如果社會看到這個數字對我們會提出一些問題來的"},{"start":25757.981,"end":25767.964,"text":"那這個絕對不是無憑無據的他也是用傳統的算計算方式總平均的計算方式但現在大家比較能接受的大概是比較像中位數的平均數來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":25784.329,"end":25808.328,"text":"公平計算的方式我的想法是說讓人民看到這個數字是跟自己接近的而且是有感情的是有溫暖的那主席總書也會朝這個方向來主席怎麼做我們請主席長來說明報告委員這一次我們公布的時候因為我們以往都只公布平均薪資那我們沒有我們這一次是把各行業的薪資都有公布出來那這一次因為各"},{"start":25808.848,"end":25831.084,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":25831.484,"end":25834.246,"text":"那再請問一下就是當然國人對這樣的數字有一些討論那我想請問一下院長"},{"start":25860.728,"end":25863.271,"text":"我當然知道,很多數的國人薪資是不到這個平均數的。"},{"start":25878.97,"end":25879.09,"text":"主席長"},{"start":25896.912,"end":25921.407,"text":"政府企業跟每個人共同努力我們把薪資再把它拉高因為台灣已經是一個高科技這麼受世界矚目的國家那我們應該有能力將這種科技業發展出來的整個經濟的發展讓全民共享所以我們提出創新驅動普惠大眾希望大眾都能夠享受到這樣的成果那這個就是未來整個內閣團隊"},{"start":25922.668,"end":25922.988,"text":"院長下一個議題就是"},{"start":25944.71,"end":25962.535,"text":"這個巴黎奧運要到了嘛對不對?是。您應該知道嘛。好那PowerPoint到下一頁。想請問一下在院長的眼中我們的國球是什麼?棒球一直是我們的國球但是我們的桌球近年來也是好手進出啊。那在羽毛球甚至網球"},{"start":25965.981,"end":25980.246,"text":"每種球類都很好我們都要鼓勵啦但是跟院長報告其實我們台灣的國球應該是贏球啦贏球只有贏球的那一個體育項目才會受到國家高度的關注只有贏球那我想說的是"},{"start":25981.346,"end":26006.821,"text":"其實不管是任何的比賽或者是我們在發展全民體育的時候我們一個角度不應該是說我們只看到那個第一名的在所有在過程中有努力的每一個人有得到成績的人應該都是需要受到我們的關注那可能也涉及到我們國人這個運動風氣的一個問題如果說我們什麼東西都是只關注到第一名的話只給他最豐厚的獎勵的話"},{"start":26008.502,"end":26031.179,"text":"那可能大家來從事運動的風氣就會可能比較差一點那我們現在是要跟院長討論一下獎金的問題啦下一頁這個先讓院長看一下我們這個整理了一些資料啦那奧運冠軍從民國91年一次領1000萬到93年提升到1200萬月領75000塊那現在的金額跟月領的金額不曉得院長知不知道"},{"start":26038.772,"end":26053.171,"text":"這是這樣的數字?沒有啦這是9393年我們調過啦我們國家沒那麼…沒那麼…沒那麼摳啦我們在2018年的時候這個賴總統時任行政院長的時候我們有對獎金在做比較…奇怪我有問題為什麼教育部長不上來救援你一下"},{"start":26056.704,"end":26070.096,"text":"沒關係 這個東西其實是比較細的啦 這東西比較細一點那我也沒有說一定要院長能夠答得出來只讓院長知道一下這個背景的數字我們給院長看一下我們現在的獎金大概是多少"},{"start":26071.039,"end":26092.101,"text":"一次領是兩千萬那月領是十二萬五千那其實金額已經不低了金額不低了那也都有一些顯著性的成長那這個大概是應該是一百零四年一百零四年已經十年沒有調整了那我認為金牌這個獎金其實是沒有大家不會說很低啊但多多益善能夠願意提高當然是很好的那我們來看一下銀牌"},{"start":26094.039,"end":26123.491,"text":"我們來看一下銀牌一樣從500萬提升到600萬那個是9393年的那依照剛剛1000萬變成2000萬那我們從亞運的500萬一開始的500萬到現在你猜我們亞運有沒有一樣比例的成長獎金你知道現在獎金是多少嗎?應該有成長有成長一定有成長冠軍大概從1000萬變2000萬那亞軍銀牌的部分您猜一下"},{"start":26127.148,"end":26132.652,"text":"跟部長報告跟院長報告我們現在的亞運是從500萬調到了700萬那月領是38000元那這個東西從民國94年就沒有調整過了其實競牌我們剛剛看到103年104年有調整過了那亞運銀牌已經已經20年沒有調整了那銅牌也是類似的情況那下一張"},{"start":26156.138,"end":26164.383,"text":"我們亞運的銅牌基金就是從400萬嘛那現在調再猜一下現在金額大概多少?500"},{"start":26166.723,"end":26167.324,"text":"我們下一張整理的表"},{"start":26195.057,"end":26209.98,"text":"好那這樣就比較清楚了啦我們確實從民國91年到113年在金牌的部分翻倍了我們當然是肯定那當然多多益善12萬5那銀牌跟銅牌金牌是翻了100%銀牌只翻了40%500萬多了200萬那銅牌只翻了25%400萬變500萬"},{"start":26217.702,"end":26235.148,"text":"那這個是一次領的那月領的部分喔其實差距就更大了我們從91年到113年已經這個政府已經是不一樣了我們已經有大小眼了結果我們月領的部分喔我們看到金牌月領12萬5他大概是2000萬的0.62%"},{"start":26237.829,"end":26243.671,"text":"銀牌3.8萬是700萬的0.54%銅牌24000元是500萬的0.48%我們一樣都是從一次性的獎金變成月領的獎金結果這個比例怎麼會是不一樣的?這個有辦法做一些解釋嗎?"},{"start":26257.153,"end":26277.84,"text":"這個結構性的問題其實我不太了解你說一次性的獎金調整不一樣你說你只獎勵第一名沒有關係第一名當然不鼓勵我們希望選幾條那怎麼會連月領的這個部分所佔總獎金就一次領的比例也會不一樣有辦法解釋嗎還是說院長認為這有調整的空間與必要"},{"start":26281.297,"end":26299.487,"text":"我覺得這個是希望他能夠在比較長的時間對自己的生活或是其他方面有一個比較穩定的這個獎金的分配所以是不是鼓勵他往這個方向去對 領月領沒有問題我的問題我可能講的不是很清楚金牌月領12萬5000元他只是2000萬的0.62%那照理來說我們銀牌要給選手的月領的獎金應該也是700萬的0.62%"},{"start":26309.298,"end":26315.122,"text":"金牌的比例是0.62%銀牌卻只有0.54%這個東西不合理吧?有了解我的意思嗎?還是部長要補充說明一下?謝謝委員的提醒我想如果按照那個比例他確實這個銀牌跟銅牌是確實是一個列為這個低了一點如果按照金牌的一個比例當然我們在過去"},{"start":26335.934,"end":26348.804,"text":"好,我們的代表團已經是這兩個月的事情了,那就希望說我們能夠在他們出發前來做一個檢討,讓他來做一個至少比例上面要一樣,然後金額看看能不能調整,在我們的選手出國前給他們一個鼓勵跟打氣好不好?"},{"start":26364.335,"end":26390.896,"text":"可以嗎?好,可以喔,那謝謝院長。那補充一下,帕運也一樣啦,這個帕運我就沒有直接想了,帕運的部分。那我們其實重視奧運,那其實帕運的討論度比較差。那關於身心障礙的朋友,我也希望我們能夠多下一些關注,一併來檢視。那另外,選手商務艙這件事情都確定了嗎?每一位出國代表我們中華民國去參加奧運的,每一位選手的商務艙都訂好了嗎?"},{"start":26392.33,"end":26414.356,"text":"我們之前有開過一次的內部的會議,我要求說選手們怎麼去怎麼回,怎麼吃怎麼住,我們要非常細心的來照顧他。商務艙這個東西應該是潘部長之前就是一樣在今年在這邊承諾過,我不曉得你們認不認他這個承諾,每一個選手出去一定都是商務艙。"},{"start":26415.646,"end":26423.749,"text":"我們做得到嗎?我們會優先這樣想,但是有時候配合班次、航班、飛機的設計選手聽了會有點失望啦有的人出去商務艙,有的人經濟艙,哪個項目經濟艙能這樣比嗎?對不對?"},{"start":26437.726,"end":26463.804,"text":"我們現在一定照這個方向做,那如果班次發生困難,可能要做其他...好不好,排除一切困難,給我們選手最好的一個出國比賽的一個交通運輸,希望每一個選手出國比賽,奧運選手出國比賽,都有商務艙可以搭。拜託,拜託院長跟部長。謝謝,這是一定要做到的。好,謝謝。那接下來下一個議題喔,先請問一下,部長可以先請回喔。"},{"start":26465.439,"end":26473.087,"text":"請教一下院長我們的這個監獄啊原則上如果說我們要先做一個監獄的話你大概我們會選擇有哪些條件的情況下我們會來做監獄"},{"start":26474.83,"end":26474.85,"text":"對,好"},{"start":26503.717,"end":26526.393,"text":"那接下來我就是要問社宅問題啦那原則上我們賴總統有在去年選舉的時候宣布嘛就是百萬嘛百萬社宅那扣掉50萬租金補貼大概就剩50萬嘛50萬之後再扣掉再包租貸款25萬那原則上社宅就是25萬那這個賴總統之前是13萬所以25扣掉15大概就是"},{"start":26528.523,"end":26529.424,"text":"目前我們的目的"},{"start":26555.22,"end":26557.871,"text":"目前我們的目標是8年內完成8年內蓋完"},{"start":26560.054,"end":26585.151,"text":"我們現在目前的目標8年內但是你說8年內蓋完我覺得這樣太誇張但是我們一定朝這個目標前進8年內是個很長的時間希望8年內能蓋完好OK那我們當然是支持社會住宅那只是說地點就是我剛一開始為什麼問建議這個地點這個地點在之前這個也是立法院之前上一屆有人在做討論"},{"start":26588.793,"end":26608.568,"text":"那時候時任的邱委員有問說社會住宅是不是貧民窟那現在的話董事長說不可能是貧民窟嘛我們要興建社會住宅一定是選擇在交通比較便捷發展已經相對成熟的地方而不會特別蓋到郊區或一些比較特別的地方那這個論述跟剛剛院長講的差不多"},{"start":26609.248,"end":26617.759,"text":"就是與跟既有的這個發展區域不會隔得太遠。那我們在汐止現在在挑涉宅的地方我就有很大的疑問下一張。我們汐止曾經有三個地方有討論要蓋涉宅那最後目前"},{"start":26626.105,"end":26642.419,"text":"行政院合定的大概只有一處,就是在我們的白爬湖,就是右下角。我們右下角這個可能顏色比較淡一點,有一個圓圈圈,上面就是我們市區,然後這個一條路的那個就是高速公路嘛。然後下面這邊原本是我們的監獄預定地。我們會蓋監獄的地方就如同剛剛院長講的,可能離人間比較,會有點距離,跟這個"},{"start":26651.311,"end":26660.823,"text":"有不會影響到衝擊衝擊到我們既有生活圈嗎那結果我們現在內政部唯一可能目前確定案要蓋的就是在我們的監獄定地"},{"start":26662.449,"end":26684.406,"text":"那我就有很大的疑問,我們就好像就是為了去衝這個數量,所以就是隨便去找了一些地,就違背了剛剛院長講的話,違背了當初花次長在我們立院所做的答詢,直接蓋在一個荒郊野外,地大嘛,隨便我們蓋嘛,然後就蓋了很多戶,反而是我們地方民眾希望蓋的地方,"},{"start":26685.186,"end":26700.477,"text":"包括我們汐止有兩處啊,你們不一定知道在哪裡。一個是我們的一個保藏坑的營區,國防部的土地目前正在做變更。結果我們住租中心居然說因為裡面有一座電塔,它是一個零幣設施,所以他們不太想蓋。"},{"start":26701.718,"end":26718.429,"text":"好,一個電塔,你電塔可以下地板,這個你也是行政院的,台電也是行政院的東西啊,這都是中央政府的事情嘛。結果搞到現在,要做這個公社解編,那地方政府拿他們分配回45%的部分去做這個社宅要去蓋。"},{"start":26719.309,"end":26738.747,"text":"但是這個就跟我們如果說整塊營區去做設宅變更的地木變更做設宅的量體就會差很多了。我是希望我們中央能夠承擔起這個責任因為地方我知道設宅要蓋要讓地方接受其實不是那麼容易的其實地方是非常願意我們來蓋設宅的結果我們居然因為電塔這個緣故"},{"start":26740.589,"end":26761.322,"text":"而把他目前是排除在外,那包括包括我們的一個文高用地也是軍方的用地,當初也是有評估說要做公社解編嘛,那所以他會有一部分住宅區一部分的社福用地啊,那也會蓋很多社會住宅啊,結果後來也是因為挖到廢棄物,所以說我們現在就擱置了,這個地方也是沒有反對啊,結果我們"},{"start":26762.515,"end":26791.434,"text":"為了我的感覺就是我們的行政院我們的租屋中心為了衝數量就去挑容易做的但是違背了我們當初蓋社宅所設立的一些前提我們必須要跟這個這個既有的生活圈他社宅必須要是緊密的否則他可能會被標貼標籤化這樣子一個初衷所以就為了衝這個數量就找一塊地把它蓋一蓋然後真的地方想蓋了你們不蓋這個部分我不曉得我們部長或是院長能不能在這邊承諾"},{"start":26792.976,"end":26807.552,"text":"針對我們汐止的這個社宅我們有沒有辦法再做一個通盤性的檢討那以符合地方民眾期待的地點去蓋地方以及我絕對不反對蓋社宅而是我們反對在不恰當的地方去蓋社宅"},{"start":26808.632,"end":26826.495,"text":"非常謝謝委員的關心,這表示說我們在推動這個社會住宅的時候更審慎,也就是說我們未來的社會住宅要朝著小造正,像你講的,它周邊的生活環境,包括道路交通等等能不能復合,而不是把它蓋在邊邊角角結果沒有人要去,這是第一點。"},{"start":26827.095,"end":26851.609,"text":"那第二個呢我們很希望因為新北市呢是一個我們的直轄市那他們如果能夠提供土地或者是未來啊有這個國公營事業能夠提供土地的話我們願意再來做審慎的評估那您講的那三塊土地確實現在要蓋像你非常了解這個都市計畫要做公社解編或者是說原來的軍方預定地下面有這個有害事業廢棄物的話你要把它全部清除完畢啊"},{"start":26851.869,"end":26873.729,"text":"除非說原來的這個土地管理人願意這樣做,否則按照都市重劃的話,我們不可能用都市重劃的錢去把那個廢棄物處理掉。所以所有的過程當中是表示我們非常審慎的在選擇以汐止地區為主的社會住宅。那如果說委員能夠提供我們這方面的土地的使用,沒有任何其他問題或是說它是個乾淨的樹地的話,"},{"start":26874.79,"end":26875.831,"text":"政府把錢花下去了政府把錢花下去了如果說反而沒有"},{"start":26904.326,"end":26933.738,"text":"沒有達到我們的預期到時候它變成一個鬼城地方的民眾不支持然後民眾支持的地方你不蓋你不覺得花這個錢很沒有意義嗎?報告我都還沒有蓋啊都還沒有蓋對還沒有蓋但已經核定了那我就希望我們會後再做一些有時候你更審慎要來評估好沒錯我就希望能夠更審慎的來評估好不好我們可以有其他用途如果說是白袍湖這個地方它是不是也是有北二高的交流道有一個自然公園它一個未來的捷運也一個連通的公角"},{"start":26934.564,"end":26938.847,"text":"我希望能夠再做多一些討論好不好會後再麻煩內政部主動跟我的辦公室做一些聯絡我們再做一些詳細的討論可不可以"},{"start":26962.758,"end":26964.202,"text":"謝謝 涉財問題就到這邊下一個議題是我最重視的一個議題軌道運輸這個東西喔"},{"start":26972.267,"end":27001.433,"text":"基隆南港間通勤軌道建設計畫中的規劃,其實我在上一次總質詢也有請教陳建仁部長,只不過我發現在跟他討論過程中,因為可能他要卸任了,那他也不是很了解這個案子,所以說反正就吵吵鬧鬧就結束了。那我希望部長一上任之後,我想能夠當一個民意代表,能夠當行政院長,這個在人生過程當中都是非常難得的一個機會。我們都希望我們所做的事情對後代是好的,我們希望所做的事情,我們"},{"start":27002.722,"end":27003.942,"text":"當初本來線的延伸也是蔡總統"},{"start":27030.055,"end":27052.902,"text":"當初在選舉的承諾啦當然也過了啦我沒有要也不一定說一定要賴總統把它承擔下來啦好不好下一張好啦這個是這個圖喔院長請看一下上面是現在的方案啦它原則上會有三條捷運線最上面的淺藍色的是這個所謂的民生線啦現在是西東線那就是過去說的民生線您當過台北市議員應該是非常清楚啦"},{"start":27053.422,"end":27074.102,"text":"那綠色的就是俗稱的基隆捷運,中間綠色的捷運,這下面就是板南線。那現在這個是現在的方案,它可能路線非常的交錯而且要轉車。那最下面的這張圖是我們目前地方上建議的案件,就是我們的板南線能夠做一個延伸到張樹安,讓基隆捷運跟這個西龍線以及民生線能夠做一個串接。"},{"start":27075.282,"end":27077.243,"text":"委員垂詢的如果是這個阪南線的延伸那現在這個組織單位是臺北市政府捷運工程局"},{"start":27097.705,"end":27121.36,"text":"院長我必須跟你報告一下當初這個計畫是基隆南港監通請軌道建設計畫綜合規劃所以這個整個路廊應該都當初是我們行政院在做主宰在做規劃的施工當然是那個當然是那個但是我們報告的時候是我們做的怎麼可以說在討論到板藍線的時候就把他拖到台北市政府那我覺得就會抱歉啦我覺得覺得我沒有必要再問下去好像會跟之前問陳建仁院長一樣"},{"start":27122.503,"end":27129.027,"text":"對,所以部長你也沒有很了解我的訴求啊。供購的部分我完全沒有要動到啊。我的訴求是,本來線也伸到張書安啊。我們供購的地方是張書安到矽科啊。完全沒有衝突啊。"},{"start":27152.216,"end":27172.775,"text":"那另外就是說以延伸線來講,板南線如果要延伸到張樹灣這一段,通常不會是圓軌延伸,一定是會因為它的運量不足,一定不會是高運量的延伸,會變成是一個輕運量,那一定還是會有接駁等等的問題。為什麼不能圓軌延伸,往普城那邊就有圓軌延伸?那個運量根本沒有效益。"},{"start":27176.579,"end":27200.124,"text":"我們每天台鐵多少人來台北每天公車多少人擠得跟沙丁魚一樣你跟我說矽脂人大公共運輸沒有運量你如果只有延伸到張樹灣不是延伸到基隆沒有把基隆的人口一起來支撐他的運量單單靠矽脂的運量是沒有辦法高運量他一樣在張樹灣做轉成啊基隆民眾到台北是沒差一樣都是轉成一次只是在張樹灣轉成或是哪當轉成這樣你會讓矽東縣整個都耽誤下來"},{"start":27205.704,"end":27231.034,"text":"因為現階段西東縣的我今天一定要問這個我今天會問這個你一定知道嘛你今天又跟我扯西東縣這個案子跟西東縣完全沒有關係西東縣做西東縣的我也建議你要先跟新北市市政府捷運局先可以啊我在當議員的時候也都有問啊誰不管政黨當然現在是回為當市長嘛他不支持我一樣我一樣是可以批評他但是我現在是立法委員我現在在這邊我就是執行院長跟部長嘛"},{"start":27232.914,"end":27256.943,"text":"對,所以說,今天是3月,臺北市政府有一個函,他說這個路段因為涉及土地徵收,民宅的拆除以及大同路的路幅小,還有機場空間不足跟財務效益不足,他是傾向不再啟動,他現在的意思是這樣,當初是林佳龍部長跟山市市長討論出來的東西嘛,你一個地方政府怎麼可以推翻一個當初部長大家討論的東西?"},{"start":27258.684,"end":27276.039,"text":"台北市政府談的我知道啊那就是當初是三個市長跟交通部長一起討論出來的方案嘛大家都不想去做破壞當初這個方案的人嘛因為現在基隆捷運已經在路上了嘛已經在規劃當中了這我知道所以我剛剛才跟院長說我們退休了之後再回頭來看"},{"start":27278.192,"end":27306.962,"text":"當初這個建設的規劃是對的嗎?我們有沒有機會在任內去做一些改變讓它可以成為真正一個百年的建設所以我今天我知道機會很低所以我今天才又花了時間在這邊跟院長做討論我們有沒有機會在我們的這個報告名稱叫做基隆南港間通勤軌道建設計畫綜合規劃的理念再去詳細的去修正一次評估報告去重新評估板南線延伸的可行性你們有沒有意願?"},{"start":27308.967,"end":27323.332,"text":"您只要講有沒有意願,沒有意願我就不用再問下去了我們是覺得現在再重啟規劃整個時程包括基隆捷運跟西東線整個時程會耽擱下來那我想我們是不是安排一個時間跟您報告相關的細節"},{"start":27324.66,"end":27343.58,"text":"好,好沒關係,看來你們是不太願意啦。好沒關係,我是真的希望我們以後退休之後回頭來看一下我們當初所做的每一個決策。這個決策不是院長做的決策,不是部長做的決策。我是上一任政府做的決策,但我們有沒有,我們願不願意去修正讓它變得更好。我們的初衷就是這樣。好,那再下一個。"},{"start":27344.361,"end":27346.642,"text":"我們還是希望這個人工智慧是用比較正確的資訊他或許有一些誤差但是"},{"start":27372.479,"end":27395.114,"text":"黨的主張應該有黨的發言系統來對待說全部比較對。確的DPP造謠嗎?不是造謠,它有的資訊不是挺完整的,但是黨的主張應該...他說國會改革法案符合程序正義有完整合法的法案審議程序啊,可是我們行政院的文件上面寫沒有啊,那一定有一個是對的一個是錯的嘛。"},{"start":27404.351,"end":27405.673,"text":"謝謝廖宣祥委員質詢。謝謝主委長的備詢。報告委員會現在我們休息10分鐘。"},{"start":27991.886,"end":28019.241,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":28038.882,"end":28042.364,"text":"報告宴會現在我們繼續開會。接下來請陳冠廷委員質詢。"},{"start":28072.823,"end":28075.244,"text":"我們請院長還有公共部長"},{"start":28081.366,"end":28081.767,"text":"國防部部長"},{"start":28090.953,"end":28117.938,"text":"院長我想首先先祝賀您新任院長,那也希望說未來的這個時間裡面我們可以一起為臺灣來打造一個更好的未來。首先想請院長,不知道有沒有聽到最近在美國的印太司令部帕帕羅上將有透露出地域景象的戰略,意思是說美軍將在未來台海戰事爆發的時候會部署數以千計的無人。"},{"start":28118.658,"end":28140.604,"text":"無人載具我為什麼說無人載具我不說無人飛行器因為包含這一個海面上海面下這些都是無人載具的一部分那去作為擾亂中國軍隊為美軍爭取時間的這個部分院長怎麼看待美軍的這個戰略是我們在最近二無戰爭以哈戰爭當中都陸續可以看到新型態的作戰方式"},{"start":28141.499,"end":28159.65,"text":"那對台灣來講我們從以前到現在一直在認定採取一種不對稱的戰爭對台灣的防衛系統是最有利的。那這個部分我想在我們強化國防發展自主國防力量的過程當中一直朝向強化我們防衛系統這個方向來努力的。"},{"start":28161.158,"end":28176.379,"text":"顧部長雖然到國防部久我想他也提出了很多對國防部的因心因格的事項當然對於傳統我們在發展的自主國防強化國防的力量的這個過程裡面國防部一定扮演最重要的角色我們一定用科技化現代化來進行"},{"start":28177.58,"end":28200.818,"text":"科技化跟現代化那我想無惡戰爭也是一個很好的例子就是說我們希望說利用我們的這種無人機無人艦來去彌補傳統兵力上面的不足甚至來因應來增強那其實這一次您的這一個政府是叫AI政府那AI的這個應用共創新局那AI的應用在這個無人載具上面也有非常大的效用"},{"start":28201.559,"end":28230.77,"text":"所以部長我們現在有建翔反輻射無人機,我們也有騰雲長城增打無人機,還有志榮一號的消防無人艇,你認為我們有足夠的無人機無人艦來配合美軍來執行這個戰略嗎?雖然現在發展台灣的無人機的產業,但是現在來講我們還是要迎頭趕上,那這個部分請部長來說明。跟委員報告,第一個就是說國軍還是要持續這個多元的管道來籌貨這個各類型的無人機來快速形成戰力。"},{"start":28232.439,"end":28256.358,"text":"護和防衛作戰時序所以如果你講說現在是不是足夠我必須很坦誠的講我們還是要持續來進行才能夠配合剛剛你提到的這個帕巴羅上將所提的因為帕巴羅上將所提的這種護和這種所謂利用敵人的破綻攻擊落點的這種的不對稱的作戰的方式我們要跟他配合的話我們不但有足夠的這些"},{"start":28257.386,"end":28260.008,"text":"謝謝部長我想我們剛才提到的部署無人載具那包含是海面上海面下包含在空中飛行"},{"start":28274.541,"end":28292.836,"text":"高低配全部都要不管是進口或者是在國內本土廠商的這個製作我想在烏日戰爭是每天每個月所消耗的這種無人載具是非常大的所以我們必須要確保我們國內有足夠的產業鏈還有國內有足夠的企業願意投入這樣子的生產"},{"start":28293.777,"end":28322.263,"text":"所以我必須還是要說等一下我們會談到民雄的航太園區在那之前我還是要說我們這樣子的需要的這樣的無人機的生產就需要大規模的評測的基地不管是在測試也好不管是提供場地也好不管是在高階一點的無人機我想大家應該知道美軍的這個MQ-9這種高配的這種無人載具或者是比較微型的無人機型或者是在海面上海面下這全部都是需要有一個完整的場地"},{"start":28322.483,"end":28343.353,"text":"﹗"},{"start":28343.433,"end":28363.886,"text":"那未來在一些我們非典型的灰色的這種地帶的這種戰略上面對我們的威懾也可以稍微減輕那像是在這次淡水發生的狀況其實如果能夠在大規模的部署相關的這一些機具裝備的話其實都可以更快偵測或者是說在偵測之後可以有其他的相應作為"},{"start":28364.426,"end":28389.772,"text":"所以我是希望說未來能夠跨部會來去做協調因為在農用的在這個消防用的跟在軍用的其實他們都有各種不同的應用的方向跟方式我是希望把評測的場地評測的機制評測的機會全部都要更加平凡更加制度化讓每一個在臺灣有志於國防產業的企業都能夠加入我們國軍的這種建軍的規劃方案"},{"start":28392.173,"end":28415.706,"text":"那除了國內當然還有國外的我們包含進口也是非常重要我們希望說未來能夠利用這樣子的無人載具來去彌補說我們可能在人員上面可能沒有辦法像中國有辦法這麼多人口但是我們卻能夠用我們的這種科技來去做一個相應的去做平衡那謝謝部長那我們接下來要請這個國發會主委跟財政部長"},{"start":28426.307,"end":28434.636,"text":"還有顧部長國防部長因為這個是民雄航太園區因為民雄航太園區這邊顧部長顧部長再請國防部謝謝"},{"start":28450.09,"end":28475.535,"text":"部長我簡單的來講一下我們的這個無人產業園區民雄的無人機及航太園區那今年的3月22號我在這邊有問過陳建遠院長關於民雄航太及無人機產業園區的部分那之前的狀況是因為經濟部沒有土地所有權所以他們不想或許也不能進場開發但是國防部有土地所有權但是卻沒有開發的這個經驗那那個時候我問陳院長說要由誰來開發"},{"start":28478.598,"end":28504.672,"text":"那時候陳院長的答覆是說會後會交由副院長來召集協商看是由國防部主責或者是經濟部主責所以我想請教一下我聽到的消息是4月15號有開過一次專業的會議專案的會議就是說要把開發的主導權給國防部我想確認這是已經決議的事情嗎跟委員報告您問的大概是那個民雄縣區的東西側兩側的這個兩個"},{"start":28507.526,"end":28519.78,"text":"那東側基地的部分是中科院大概是25公頃這是中科院西側你關切的西側29公頃的那個部分作為航太及無人機產業這個部分呢要規劃這個相關的民間廠商進駐"},{"start":28524.349,"end":28527.894,"text":"那這一個部分應該就是由這個國發會他現在開發建設計畫書大概由國發會來會辦各部會在審查當中那這個會加我想國發會會來會來全權來進行"},{"start":28539.868,"end":28560.496,"text":"想請問國發會所以是主委現在是由哪一個部會接下來會進行整個產業的開發的主導?跟委員報告一下我目前不好意思我目前並沒有掌握到這個案子我們可能適不適後再來再跟您回報一下這個實際的狀況"},{"start":28562.237,"end":28591.575,"text":"所以產業園區的部分經濟部會主導嗎?現在都還沒有決議嗎?4月15號的那個還專案的這個會議還沒有決議?產業的部分喔,我不是說有中科院的部分,產業的部分。就西側的部分嗎?因為委員在關鍵的西側的部分嘛。對。西側的部分的話,大概相關的因為整個要包括各部會的一個,所以我的了解,我的了解就是"},{"start":28592.312,"end":28595.153,"text":"部長,是不是可以簡單的回應一下您所知道的部分?或者是主委?"},{"start":28622.302,"end":28642.598,"text":"沒關係,我們可以會後再討論,那我主要是希望說．現在在那個初步的會議結論當中,是協調的結果,是由國防部要來接手。那現在這個事情還沒有真的進行下去,我請顧部長再了解一下。好,謝謝院長,謝謝。對10月15日以後的這個會議,如何再繼續的執行。"},{"start":28646.001,"end":28651.884,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝,那就院長就好了,那我們繼續跟院長質詢,其他部長可以先,謝謝各部會組長,謝謝各部會組長,謝謝部長,謝謝,好,謝謝"},{"start":28659.212,"end":28676.761,"text":"院長我為什麼要針對這件事情我希望盡速的了解的狀況因為現在會出現時程的問題跟預算的問題如果我們沒有辦法在今年7月核定航太機無人機產業園區的話那就沒有辦法在114年展開建設開發所以我想我們"},{"start":28677.822,"end":28698.043,"text":"未來賴總統的這四年每一分每一秒都是我們發展開拓的一個好機會所以我不希望有任何一天讓他這個時間流失掉所以想請教院長說這樣的行程非常的緊大概剩下一個月多的時間可不可以請院長親自來來協調一下看怎麼樣可以讓他這個開發可以更加的順遂"},{"start":28699.332,"end":28722.614,"text":"您說是民雄的這個對對對就民雄我們也一直希望臺灣能夠成為亞洲民主的供應鏈在無人機的這個產業當中至少我們提供民主的而且是優質的而且是持續的所以針對這個專案的處理我想總統也是把它列為相當大的這個五大信貸產業之一所以我們一定朝這個方向來做所以剛剛國防部"},{"start":28724.889,"end":28725.149,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝"},{"start":28749.79,"end":28764.9,"text":"那第二個事情就是說經費的問題啦剛才也提到齁就是說根據財政單位的意見如果是國防部來去主導開發的話那中科院大概是要負26億負擔26億元那中科院現在已經在推動東側園區的低級工程"},{"start":28766.781,"end":28787.334,"text":"接下來還要設備的投資產線的投資我是很擔心他沒有什麼預算來去開發西邊的產業園區所以我是希望建請行政院用公共建設的預算全額去役主那邊來去辦理那邊的園區開發這部分是不是可以請院長來檢討剛剛部長有提到東側大概約25公頃西側是29公頃相關的預算東側是11億左右西側現在開發金會要達到將近70億"},{"start":28796.792,"end":28799.602,"text":"那我們會循預算的程序因為既然把它列為"},{"start":28800.427,"end":28805.971,"text":"再請院長能夠優先處理這個部分也是跟我們民雄航太園區從我們最開始的無人機的產業到我們的民雄航太園區無人機產業園區到我們現在相接養的這個民雄鐵路的高價化的部分這個部分要請院長"},{"start":28828.847,"end":28842.927,"text":"行政院是在2023年5月是有核定嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸計畫就是所謂的我們的民雄鐵路高架化那民雄鐵路高架化就是要跟嘉義市區的鐵路高架化來互相連結來去打造這個便利的鐵路運輸系統"},{"start":28844.368,"end":28869.614,"text":"據我的瞭解,那現在的鐵路高架進入是在基本設計的階段。那今年底送工程會審議完就可以進入細部設計的階段。那細部設計大概是半年。那接下來就是臨時軌、高架橋的工程還有民雄車站站體。院長如果整個時程如果可以順利的走下去,是不是可以在臨時軌的工程在明年的5月就可以正式開始施工?"},{"start":28870.413,"end":28870.955,"text":"是的本項計畫經費也相當龐大173億那"},{"start":28876.133,"end":28899.247,"text":"長期的目標是希望在2031年能夠交高價通車那希望大家我想交通部也在努力能夠在明年的5月讓他能夠臨時軌能夠開工這個是交通部努力的一個目標那這個工程的進行應該是順利那另外就是主體工程明年10月是不是可以來趕他盡快的來給他開工"},{"start":28901.249,"end":28924.973,"text":"我必須要強調好因為民雄的鄉親是非常期待鐵路高架化的正式的動工所以當你的第一支高架橋墩的設置你第一段臨時軌道的設置他絕對是會給整個我們這個民雄地區的民眾有很大的振奮感因為他們看到的是次世代的產業跟次世代的這些交通建設全部同時都會做好部長這可不可以請你來全力來助成我們來努力"},{"start":28925.831,"end":28926.251,"text":"接下來要請農業部跟財政部"},{"start":28942.267,"end":28958.702,"text":"院長,我們嘉義當然我是屬於山區的立法委員所以說我們的選區雖然說有10個鄉鎮但是選區面積最大是阿里山鄉那阿里山上面主要都是國有的林地所以山上最重要的就是居住權那居住權的部分"},{"start":28959.923,"end":28979.273,"text":"關於過去國有林立上面提供既有居住使用權的部分,原本行政院是打算修正濫墾地續辦清查的要點。國有林立是從58527改成各地方政府第一次非都市土地辦理使用的公告日期。"},{"start":28979.853,"end":28994.066,"text":"加一線第一次飛都的公告是75年11月1號那目前這個方案的進度呢我補充一下齁因為各部會對這個方案有疑義是因為大家的第一次飛都的公告時間是有差別的比方說我們加"},{"start":28997.83,"end":28997.85,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":29019.678,"end":29020.619,"text":"﹚發言委員"},{"start":29057.934,"end":29058.855,"text":"接下來我們請登記第42位徐宇珍委員質詢"},{"start":29078.117,"end":29078.537,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":29091.946,"end":29116.874,"text":"徐委員好 院長好 院長我想請教一下因為我們財化法已經25年都沒有修正了 所以其實地方的首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精神前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4 那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5"},{"start":29118.835,"end":29139.829,"text":"所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方的財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想那我想請問一下院長您認為財化法修正是財政問題還是政治問題?它一直是一個財政的問題"},{"start":29143.581,"end":29157.146,"text":"但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配這確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動好幾次都到最後都停下來就是因為在分配上大家"},{"start":29157.697,"end":29162.5,"text":"所以院長認為既是財政問題也是政治問題應該是財政問題但背後有政治的因素到底是財政問題還是政治問題等等給你這個答案我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長他"},{"start":29178.231,"end":29202.877,"text":"他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心"},{"start":29204.597,"end":29233.459,"text":"還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統"},{"start":29234.54,"end":29251.609,"text":"他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。"},{"start":29252.469,"end":29272.168,"text":"所以請問院長現在賴清德總統已經當選了他過去主張修訂才化法那請問賴清德總統主張的是芭樂票還是竹竿票各位委員說明這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得"},{"start":29273.069,"end":29298.818,"text":"我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟"},{"start":29300.139,"end":29325.456,"text":"院長您剛剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說"},{"start":29326.317,"end":29327.197,"text":"新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍、"},{"start":29348.467,"end":29371.322,"text":"台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長"},{"start":29373.322,"end":29384.888,"text":"我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。"},{"start":29385.984,"end":29409.59,"text":"第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方之福那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫"},{"start":29411.611,"end":29427.277,"text":"來總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨這個民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想。院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,這樣現在的才化法的精神我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。"},{"start":29427.617,"end":29429.359,"text":"好,那如果院長您對修訂後的分配數有疑義的話"},{"start":29456.02,"end":29470.286,"text":"請問行政院什麼時候可以提出對案的版本進行討論?剛剛跟委員報告過現在的現行版本現行的規定法辦法就是朝向您現在說的更公平更有效而且促進地方發展而我們是用"},{"start":29471.483,"end":29491.724,"text":"一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以﹖議員長,也就是說您現在說的75%在中央這個是你覺得最有﹖這個最好的一個方法。那這樣的話這件事原則上不會提出這些問題。所以院長我覺得我們要其實要面對,要正視。"},{"start":29493.966,"end":29497.389,"text":"但是很多都是中央這個開支票地方買單的也很多,所以說其實這個部分我覺得還會,而且可能還會影響到的就是說,我們都還要看看這個現在院長是誰。"},{"start":29512.279,"end":29538.525,"text":"那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是奧奧代補真的是米缸空了卻沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後"},{"start":29542.687,"end":29550.497,"text":"請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民"},{"start":29551.308,"end":29572.76,"text":"那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式"},{"start":29578.303,"end":29603.8,"text":"請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我們再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長"},{"start":29607.554,"end":29608.674,"text":"其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話,我想主要就是因為它的財政收入啊。"},{"start":29624.258,"end":29639.394,"text":"﹗"},{"start":29639.614,"end":29666.366,"text":"我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎"},{"start":29667.759,"end":29693.731,"text":"更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重"},{"start":29694.971,"end":29723.892,"text":"請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨"},{"start":29724.517,"end":29747.813,"text":"我們現在正在國土激發法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是"},{"start":29750.97,"end":29778.918,"text":"那是不是可以請問一下劉部長那如果到那個時候我們再來做考量怎麼樣來所以表示院長是覺得是不是要展言是有空間的因為還要聽聽各縣市的意見嗎那請問一下部長就是有哪四個縣市現在是會有問題其他的都沒有問題嗎包括您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他"},{"start":29781.279,"end":29795.326,"text":"希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計劃表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做"},{"start":29795.834,"end":29798.576,"text":"您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那"},{"start":29820.469,"end":29846.112,"text":"農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市為什麼大部分的縣市為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣"},{"start":29847.353,"end":29867.13,"text":"當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的化設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二"},{"start":29868.231,"end":29894.184,"text":"那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個劃設標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這個劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明"},{"start":29895.024,"end":29918.895,"text":"我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一次性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,"},{"start":29920.909,"end":29926.43,"text":"部長剛剛我請教就是說是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的"},{"start":29946.315,"end":29966.247,"text":"我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些"},{"start":29967.047,"end":29992.66,"text":"這個部分因為是不是事後可以請這個部長可以把相關的資料給我我另外再請教一下院長就是在2017年的時候屏東縣長潘孟安表示40多年前的區域計畫法實施的時候屏東被劃定為農業區從此判了屏東死刑這對屏東來說很不公平那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃屏東卻超過8萬公頃"},{"start":29996.062,"end":30012.281,"text":"憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲"},{"start":30013.062,"end":30013.583,"text":"報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地"},{"start":30032.301,"end":30033.121,"text":"您可以看一下我們的這個"},{"start":30059.208,"end":30082.706,"text":"雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個"},{"start":30083.789,"end":30086.231,"text":"您剛有提到的,不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個,您可以看一下。"},{"start":30103.939,"end":30129.441,"text":"竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚"},{"start":30129.761,"end":30149.178,"text":"我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善"},{"start":30151.298,"end":30175.926,"text":"這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助。讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。平均來說不一樣。"},{"start":30179.114,"end":30199.134,"text":"三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如說越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬"},{"start":30200.495,"end":30215.965,"text":"五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嗎如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債"},{"start":30216.665,"end":30241.959,"text":"跟美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償"},{"start":30245.433,"end":30252.017,"text":"我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有一個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有一萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。另外再請教一下院長,我們現在可以看到"},{"start":30269.187,"end":30289.579,"text":"全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張目前能夠有"},{"start":30290.86,"end":30291.4,"text":"請問院長是否同意?"},{"start":30314.257,"end":30343.297,"text":"議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要希望不要是因為生活在台灣但同樣生活在台灣卻同卡不同命"},{"start":30344.62,"end":30347.671,"text":"另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題"},{"start":30350.285,"end":30374.871,"text":"因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了在明年的5月呢這個核三二號機也會停轉那請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說這缺失的6到7%的電力到底要什麼電力來補足那因為之前部長本來有提過說核能也是個選項但現在"},{"start":30376.571,"end":30383.232,"text":"請部長說明報告委員我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠"},{"start":30406.864,"end":30423.504,"text":"您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比現在目前的狀況怎麼樣?我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的"},{"start":30425.302,"end":30438.355,"text":"那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個基礎降下來的話"},{"start":30439.195,"end":30455.586,"text":"因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題"},{"start":30456.787,"end":30475.522,"text":"所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴是的院長是不是同意我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們"},{"start":30477.144,"end":30496.316,"text":"您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標。所以那只是一個備載的部分。所以我們積載的部分還是一樣。我剛才跟您報告過了,我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電,它是夠的。這個我們也根據這個市場上面的這些調查,"},{"start":30503.5,"end":30511.751,"text":"包括現在的這個AI可能會使用的這個對,剛剛講到AI,因為現在大家事實上都在爭取,各縣都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資,可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話,核能廚藝之後對於這個爭取AI的這個產業到台灣來,"},{"start":30523.584,"end":30540.511,"text":"我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的我想這個部分"},{"start":30541.278,"end":30563.297,"text":"我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩"},{"start":30564.518,"end":30566.739,"text":"接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是這個"},{"start":30594.43,"end":30612.783,"text":"賴清德總統他有一個他在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋租屋的家戶政策是嗎?好那這個院長您看一下現在這個賴總統的這個社會住宅25萬戶包租代管25萬戶跟租金50萬戶這樣子的這個"},{"start":30621.355,"end":30626.819,"text":"這是我們努力的目標那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了"},{"start":30650.776,"end":30673.224,"text":"我們有討論過請部長來說明我想委員講的沒有錯誤因為租金補貼它是比較快速跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣所以呢它確實是達到52萬戶以上對那就是說這個其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎並不是現在才完成的也不是你們努力的目標嗎它是一個package"},{"start":30676.465,"end":30700.671,"text":"那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎"},{"start":30707.013,"end":30721.001,"text":"我不曉得你講的是哪個item?就是在規劃中的有24509戶我們的估計是到年底之前盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶對那就是原來的這12萬戶那25萬戶就還有另外13萬戶的話你們要在8年內也就7年內要達到這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶"},{"start":30737.151,"end":30758.1,"text":"謝謝徐委員的關心,我們未來會改採取就是說多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地,然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建,那用這樣多元的方向的話呢,在短時間內,也就是說也不是短時間,7年之內再完成總共連蔡政府總統在內的話呢,大概總共25萬戶還是我們的"},{"start":30759.241,"end":30768.808,"text":"的目標以目前看來的話要達到這樣的目標其實相當的不容易我們現在的目標就是希望直轄市縣市政府直轄縣市政府跟中央是一半一半"},{"start":30774.181,"end":30776.723,"text":"我們很珍惜過去8年所累積的經驗,會讓我們在這個基礎上知道該往哪個方向去展開。"},{"start":30794.974,"end":30816.937,"text":"謝謝,謝謝議員長。"},{"start":30817.117,"end":30833.651,"text":"另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩"},{"start":30838.815,"end":30839.615,"text":"新型的多樣化的這種"},{"start":30859.742,"end":30879.011,"text":"金融行為我們請金管會部長所以是金管會會當主管機關嗎28位委員這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管"},{"start":30879.899,"end":30880.699,"text":"謝謝徐議政委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。"},{"start":30905.68,"end":30906.762,"text":"接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員質詢。"},{"start":30928.014,"end":30934.781,"text":"謝謝院長,那我想麻煩行政院院長及經濟部長上台再請卓院長經濟部備選委員好"},{"start":30950.43,"end":30977.88,"text":"院長好部長好午安先在這邊跟院長說明一下就是說這是第一次跟您在國會上面質詢是的您是法律人的前輩所以在這邊也很高興也很榮幸能夠在這邊能夠對院長質詢那我也希望說接下來的4年我們可以用一個比較理性、科學的態度"},{"start":30978.534,"end":30979.365,"text":"去面對所有的問題"},{"start":30980.268,"end":31008.663,"text":"我們在辯論上面能夠有多元那彼此尊重的方式來對一些公共議題能夠比較理性的討論希望說接下來的時間我們都能夠這樣子能夠很理性的討論很多事情不流於說一般比較口水的那個爭辯我是比較希望這樣因為我一直以來我覺得就是公共政策他能夠順利執行其實這是一個非常重要那我從小我就一直覺得"},{"start":31010.086,"end":31035.225,"text":"我很喜歡李韻大同篇的那個說法就是對於這個社會就是勞有所終、壯有所用、幼有所長、關寡孤獨、廢棄者皆有所養。所以說我們對於這個社會上面的人不管是老人、年輕人、小孩、弱勢團體都要照顧到。我覺得這才是一個最棒的一個政府該做的事情。當然這也是我一直以來我的想法。"},{"start":31035.925,"end":31047.273,"text":"那只要今天政府做的方向是朝這個方向去即使不同政黨我們也是全力支持這是我個人的一個想法那我想說在"},{"start":31048.466,"end":31075.218,"text":"這段時間其實擔任過民進黨主席又擔任院長的人其實不多那您一直以來有一個就是大師兄的稱號早期是說是謝系大師兄後來是民進黨大師兄其實我是期待將來您變成是全民的大師兄就是一個真正照顧我們全台灣人民的一個大師兄這是我一直希望說將來可以這樣子朝這個方向去邁進那其實這段時間呢"},{"start":31077.928,"end":31095.908,"text":"我是希望行政院還是能夠恪守行政中立的這個概念那最近大家比較有衝突的大概就是一個國會上面的問題當然我也是尊重行政院的一些想法但是我也是希望說行政院也是盡量不要說寧可跟國會對抗衝撞"},{"start":31099.053,"end":31099.093,"text":"國會改革"},{"start":31119.464,"end":31147.773,"text":"行政院所認定的其實都是有一些出路那在世界上的大部分的民主國家其實國會有相關的權限他是一個正常的運作那反而是沒有的話是變一個比較畸形的國會所以其實我們是一直希望說把台灣的國會朝向一個正常的民主國家國會方向去走讓那個立法權能夠有效的監督行政權其實這次國會改革我們的理想是這樣子並不是說"},{"start":31149.482,"end":31164.237,"text":"要去造成一些衝撞更何況說今天其實在座有很多部會首長當年在當立委的時候他們也有相同的提案那我自己在做那個草案的時候我也參考了非常多這邊的前輩的提案所以我還是希望說"},{"start":31165.615,"end":31179.504,"text":"行政院在運作上面能夠秉持的行政中立然後大家一起來為這個國家做一點事情以上只是說第一次跟您見面提了一些開場接下來我想說請教一些問題"},{"start":31181.005,"end":31197.691,"text":"小問題到大問題,一些跟您請教一下。第一個我想跟您請教的部分大概就是,其實民進黨執政這9年,其實有一些房價暴漲或者是物價通膨的一些問題。"},{"start":31199.264,"end":31228.392,"text":"那蔡政府呢,她執政的這段時間裡面其實最被大家詬病的幾個問題大概就是第一個,高房價不管是年輕人或中老年人其實都會高房價所煩惱我自己也是在台北租房子租好我也買不起台北的房子那還有社會住宅蓋不夠所以這些問題一直以來政府說要打房然後我想請教一下院長請問一下現在房價到底是往上還是往下"},{"start":31230.937,"end":31242.023,"text":"每個地區啊,每個區域它有不同的環境因素。那以像開發比較快的幾個地區,比如說科技園區的周遭,那漲的速度確實是超乎大家的意料之外。"},{"start":31243.246,"end":31263.045,"text":"我們不去論特定的小區因為您現在是行政院院長主管理是全國嘛那我想請教一下全國目前房價是往上還是往下?整體來講土地的資源有限在做人民對土地的需求的過程當中房價要它明顯的往下降除非是有很重大的社會因素"},{"start":31263.545,"end":31290.632,"text":"甚至一個動盪的因素否則是比較少見到這樣那我現在給您看一個那個相關的資料其實呢我們從這個數據上面來看其實這幾年漲幅非常高那以台北市來說好了台北市現在新建案的單價已經直逼120萬那這個價格其實是非常驚人我想院長一定也認同而且這個較4年前的漲幅是增加那個30%"},{"start":31292.52,"end":31316.154,"text":"那美萍就說貴了30萬那像台南跟高雄因為他們有一些科技業的話題的加持所以像橋頭、楠梓這些地方甚至漲到五成以上所以這個其實很驚人那以現在大部分的人其實他你也知道我們現在台灣的薪資所得的中位數只有50萬上下而已"},{"start":31316.837,"end":31341.517,"text":"那相對這個中位數是50%的人的薪資所得的中位數只有到每年差不多就50萬上下但是他必須面對不管是台北市或是任何一個鄉下地方的房價其實這都是高不可攀但是這個會造成非常多人他生活品質受影響或是他對於未來沒有希望我想高房價是一個很大的一個問題"},{"start":31342.845,"end":31362.723,"text":"甚至有很多人說,即使現在年薪百萬的人買房子也幾乎是不可能的事,尤其以台北市來說。你看我們剛剛講的一坪單價到120萬,假設我年薪百萬扣掉正常的支出,其實我要買房子幾乎是一件不可能的事。"},{"start":31363.55,"end":31379.758,"text":"所以我想請教一下民進黨政府這段時間最引以為傲的住房政策會不會變成是炒房的一個元兇所以想請問一下院長您知道民進黨的什麼政策反而推升了現在房價往上飆"},{"start":31380.968,"end":31403.79,"text":"謝謝委員我應該很清楚委員講的是什麼政策但是我是說從土地資源的有限以及建築成本的增加房價的高漲這個是政府已經早就看到所以我們推出社會住宅我們推出百萬社會住宅的這樣的一個政策我們也從利息的補貼租金的補貼那您所說的大概就是現在最近在討論的這個"},{"start":31405.492,"end":31417.309,"text":"新青安的立即補貼那這個部分我們已經在內部的討論也經過大家的一個思考那是不是要做一些怎麼樣的政策的調整讓他不要成為"},{"start":31419.076,"end":31424.759,"text":"當然就是說也許民進黨當初他為了一些年輕人的選票他推出了這個新清安政策也不是說完全沒有道理但是呢"},{"start":31448.364,"end":31469.913,"text":"上有政策下有對策嘛就有人會去鑽這些政策的漏洞所以這個一定需要行政院去把它補起來那這一段時間呢有一些年輕人很勇敢的去買房但是也有一些人他用人頭去貸款去買來租別人或是做一些其他的經濟上面的運作嘛所以這個部分可能你們還是要一定要把它處理好齁"},{"start":31470.609,"end":31492.387,"text":"因為其實我們看從歷史來看美國日本他都曾經因為房貸的問題引起過金融危機我是不希望說這一塊發生在台灣尤其是我們這邊的經濟實力有沒有那麼強可以去應付到一波很嚴重的金融風暴這是我比較擔心的地方因為現在你也知道台灣的貧富差距其實也不小"},{"start":31493.987,"end":31522.325,"text":"也不想,所以說我剛剛提的新知中位數,因為我不喜歡,為什麼一直要談這句話,因為太多人,太多政治人物喜歡講新知平均數,我覺得那個平均數是騙人的,要看是要看新知的中位數,所有內部統計學員都懂。所以以現在的全民的那個新知的中位數來看,其實人民其實是辛苦的,相較於物價相較於房價,我想麻煩院長你要注意這個部分。"},{"start":31523.203,"end":31548.556,"text":"那我也跟您報告就是其實這個新清安房貸啊他現在在五大銀行裡面是將近四成的房貸都是新清安那這個會不會造成另外一個風險那是不是造成房價的推升也是要麻煩你們研究一下那我是不是可以要求院長這邊呢是不是可以做一個全面的住宅政策的規劃"},{"start":31550.018,"end":31550.538,"text":"房地合一2.0"},{"start":31567.128,"end":31593.662,"text":"或者是那種百萬社會財或是新清安這個其實邏輯上有一點衝突嘛有的是叫你租有的是叫你買邏輯上有一點小衝突啦當然你可能是說針對不同族群提供不同的政策但是我比較希望就是可不可以提出一個比較在下一次總諮詢前提出一個比較明確的方向能夠讓我們知道一下那個方向是包括到把一些現有發現的漏洞把它補起來"},{"start":31594.175,"end":31622.853,"text":"包括新金安這個政策他出原意當然是好的執行也有一定的成效只是現在的過程當中被一些有心的錯用的一些後來的發展那也已經請內政部我相關的金融單位也在全面的檢查這個事情當中那至於說新的社宅的政策內政部也有一些新的構想我們會逐步的把它跟社會來說明那過程當中也希望委員能夠多多指教下一次執行前能夠給我們一個比較明確的"},{"start":31623.735,"end":31645.19,"text":"的作法這樣我們才會依循嘛就知道接下來要怎麼做好那另外呢我想請教一下就是有關房價之外其實大家更思考的就是物價的問題因為CPI它是最近的漲幅是很高嘛那我們去看齁主計處它2月下旬它本來是預計是上漲1.85"},{"start":31646.871,"end":31663.287,"text":"結果呢後來因為那個電價調漲的發案一出爐他後來就是預測是到2.03結果呢到5月的時候就是今年6月6號他發布5月的物價調查發現竟然高達2.24那其實這個已經突破那個2%的這個通膨警戒線"},{"start":31669.79,"end":31695.327,"text":"那我想我覺得這個通膨不管在全世界都是大家害怕的一個怪獸啊。我們的薪資沒有漲的情況下其實通膨一直漲等於是他實質購買力都下降。所以他實質所得也是下降的。那這樣對國人其實傷害是不小啦。那我之前在就是本期之前在那個國是論壇的時候其實有提到因為當時在講電價到底要不要漲。"},{"start":31696.207,"end":31714.967,"text":"那當然電價牽動到我國的能源政策嘛那時候我就其實有提到以現在電價條漲的話一定是萬物齊漲這個都連想都不用想一定會造成萬物齊漲說不會漲那個都是騙人的甚至政府有一些"},{"start":31715.855,"end":31743.011,"text":"前面的政府對外面說影響不大那個電費調漲也不大對你們都不會有影響這個也是騙人的嘛因為我家的家用電沒有調漲問題是我買的每一個產品它的整個供應鏈的電費都調漲了我家沒有漲物價還是會漲啊所以這樣子跟人民說沒有影響我覺得這個講這句話有點不負責任那當然跟院長您無關"},{"start":31744.625,"end":31772.55,"text":"我一直不認為說這個是應該這麼對外說一個負責任的政府應該是一個誠信的政府做對做錯都要承認那我自己對我個人的要求是我做錯事我就認錯我會很快跟人家道歉那我也希望說將來我面對的一個政府是這樣子好那那個我再請教院長我們提到物價飆漲這個部分院長你知不知道現在一顆蛋在外面售價多少錢就是在小吃店"},{"start":31773.635,"end":31797.979,"text":"我家人知道多少錢嗎?10塊到15塊吧?對,現在差不多15塊,院長你真是蠻了解的。但是產地價生雞蛋的產地價其實一斤跌到20幾塊。所以這個發生了一個問題就是我在小吃店買一顆蛋,它的價格等於是生產地的幾乎是半斤的價格了。"},{"start":31799.465,"end":31814.365,"text":"那其實呢我自己觀察啦我自己覺得這個可能這個是跟院長您無關啦我是個人我自己研究我是覺得是跟前任的那個農業部陳吉仲部長比較有關聯性因為他的農業政策是"},{"start":31815.406,"end":31840.774,"text":"補貼啦,他的農業政策不是做產銷的調控反正他什麼出什麼事就,院長沒關係這不是你的論點這是我的論點我認為說我每次看到他就是補貼補貼補貼哪裡出包就哪裡補貼他從來不是做產銷的調控那他也不是做那種長期的那種農糧政策的規劃所以搞到現在反正出了事情就撒錢就好了那他沒有想到很多東西起來之後物價是回不去的"},{"start":31841.614,"end":31852.976,"text":"現在變成是我剛講的小吃店一顆蛋15塊結果他可以相當於買產地的半斤那從產地生產之後一路"},{"start":31854.81,"end":31878.357,"text":"那個銷售到小吃店那加上成本什麼其實我覺得應該不是這麼高更何況現在雞蛋價已經跌到成本價以下所以很多人寧願把雞蛋拿去餵豬拿去丟掉他也不願意拿出來賣所以這是一個問題那請問一下你們現在對於這個那個這些通膨啊這些物價穩定物價小組到底還有沒有實際在運作"},{"start":31880.258,"end":31901.477,"text":"當然有,這是很重要的一環。我們看看CPI雖然到2.43左右,超過了大家心裡比較安心的2,這個數字已經超越,但是我們是在嚴密的監控當中,這可能也有季節性的。那至於說剛剛委員提到農業對農民的補助,我覺得部長有一句名言,農民不是補助。"},{"start":31903.719,"end":31922.947,"text":"我跟委員報告,其實農業是對農民來講他是一個專業而且是要被尊敬的一個產業,他不是靠補助而過活的一個產業,所以未來農業的部分我想我們會真正的從整個產業的一個轉型跟升級來提高農民所得。"},{"start":31925.37,"end":31950.359,"text":"呃OK那這樣就麻煩你們再多注意一下尤其是盡量不要再有什麼斑斑吃食斑啊那種那種日子在線啦因為不能把小朋友或軍人拿來當作去消耗這些農產品的這個這些人嘛齁這樣子是不太對的好那其實齁因為我為什麼問這個問題因為我們這個小組的官網啊他最新的版最新版的資料還是113年4月30號下午4點30分由那個呃"},{"start":31954.621,"end":31982.408,"text":"正副院長他主持的會議所以這個部分我在想說是不是怎麼都沒有在運作那可能再麻煩你們再稍微注意一下那也要注意一下這個通膨的一個問題我們請部長先回去交通部長跟國防部長麻煩交通部長跟國防部長麻煩交通部、國防部兩位部長"},{"start":31984.071,"end":32002.803,"text":"接下來我想請教一下一個問題,大概就是這幾天比較熱門的一個小問題,也不是小問題,大問題。就是這個軟性男子,中國籍的軟性男子,他駕船跑到淡水河口待了51分鐘都沒有被發現。"},{"start":32006.693,"end":32016.473,"text":"這個跟民進黨的主軸抗中保台其實有一點點有一點衝突耶因為你既然要抗中保台那你就要強化我們的防守能力啊"},{"start":32017.759,"end":32043.693,"text":"沒有那你強化防守能力的情況下怎麼會讓一艘船跑到淡水河口51分鐘卻沒有被發現因為這個是電影裡面才會出現的情節齁那雖然有懲處那請問一下那有沒有新的什麼措施啊有沒有新將來要怎麼預防這種事情報告委員我們已經啟動了原來已經啟動了司法的調查行政調查海委會也全部在啟動他已經做了處置了"},{"start":32043.933,"end":32044.073,"text":"根委員報告"},{"start":32060.249,"end":32081.684,"text":"事實上各國的coast guard都面對同樣的挑戰那我們當然會要求我們的海巡的同仁要零漏接但是零漏接是非常大的挑戰以韓國來講在韓國的泰安港也是中國的一艘小艇載了6個人結果在泰安港上岸了以後第5天才逮捕到第1個人"},{"start":32082.765,"end":32104.611,"text":"那當然這一次的漏接是人為的疏失我們真的是完全不容許但是我跟委員報告我主要是要跟委員報告說第一個我們在談這件事情的時候請委員也共同給我們的海巡一個支持的力量他仍然是我們的捍衛人士沒關係那我要說你的是新的措施"},{"start":32110.013,"end":32134.181,"text":"我昨天還在立法院裡面幫錦霄海巡在那邊爭取他的所得替代率欸我怎麼會不愛他們對,請委員因為我很需要說明這一點之後那請大家放心因為必須請大家放心說這是一個非常值得信賴的捍衛海疆的部隊這是安定民心的一個非常重要的心理基礎"},{"start":32135.342,"end":32151.855,"text":"主委,那這個部分我是提一個想法啦,就是說,因為我大概這個部分我覺得是不是說他這個在辨識上面的一些問題,對不對?所以我們很希望在辨識上有新的措施。目前交通部這邊對於這個法規是只有20種度以上才需要去設那個AIS系統,對不對?"},{"start":32160.342,"end":32179.092,"text":"好那現在有一個我有幾個想法就我不知道說你們有沒有將來有沒有這個政策就是如果這個狀況會發生的話那是不是將來20總頓以下的小漁船要不要用修法的方式也要求他們要去裝這個AIS的辨識系統"},{"start":32181.648,"end":32198.311,"text":"還會不會有提出這樣的想法就AIS熱像儀如果能夠裝置在29小的漁船上面的話那這次的事件或許他就可以察覺出來他並非我們自己的船貨所以真的這一點還有已經提出他的檢討的說明但是現在就是我們要後續"},{"start":32199.093,"end":32199.753,"text":"有關20噸以下的小船要來裝攜帶式的AIS這一點"},{"start":32214.701,"end":32240.094,"text":"﹚國會議員"},{"start":32240.254,"end":32240.474,"text":"總部長﹗總部長﹗"},{"start":32266.818,"end":32284.385,"text":"我跟委員報告就是20噸以下的漁船的部分大概有9000多艘然後還有有一些是裝馬達的那個漁船漁法叫CTR的部分也9000多艘那農業部已經之前就開始補助這些"},{"start":32291.528,"end":32310.898,"text":"我們也跟海委會這邊有做一些通盤的監討從國安的角度來講應該要讓每個漁船都裝的話這樣辨識度會比較高我們會朝這個目標來努力那我也是覺得就是避免這個狀況發生其實是可以思考到這些小船是不是也要強制他們裝第二個就是我思考到的既然一艘船可以跑進來"},{"start":32314.54,"end":32314.7,"text":"這不重要齁?"},{"start":32339.281,"end":32366.988,"text":"我再跟委員報告,就在月底連國外都會一起來肯定我們的企讀能力,我們還會有新的成績。主委我們今天不是談企讀,我當夾瓜我還拿過全國企讀的獎。不要把這件事票要成,不要把這件事票要成國品槍枝,國品槍枝會長期不入。不會的,不會的。那我們現在談另外一個問題,既然你們剛剛說那AIS系統我們可能要往小船上面去"},{"start":32367.788,"end":32370.149,"text":"對海巡來講是很重要的一個問題,我們希望"},{"start":32396.842,"end":32422.956,"text":"法規來去強制說不可以這樣做好那這部分呢可能再麻煩你們瞭解一下這幾個問題第一個就是小船到底要不要裝第二個就是裝了以後它是不是裝能夠辨識為臺灣的船隻而不是每一次都以為是大陸的船隻靠近這部分再麻煩你們跟委員報告一件事情這一次我們在六海裡就發現這艘船這是確實的所以我們的監控系統是看得到它的"},{"start":32423.456,"end":32443.613,"text":"但是海委會認為這是一個人為上的疏失判定上的疏失所以我們要跟台灣國人講的是這個人為上的疏失也有請海委會如何去斷絕這種人為上的疏失加緊訓練加緊他的警覺性問題出來了就麻煩解決好謝謝接下來我們請國防沒關係我再請教一個問題就是"},{"start":32447.007,"end":32459.991,"text":"院長您知不知道那個2022年那個漢光38號軍演他的主要目的是哪個部分?2022年還是2024年?就是漢光38號?今年是40號你講的是38號他主要的那個的假設是中國他用那個氣墊艇"},{"start":32474.239,"end":32489.147,"text":"然後從淡水河口就是進入我們國家的那個政軍中樞嘛那我想請教一下因為參酌到這一次發生的事情我想請問就是國防部這邊將來會不會有什麼因應的做法"},{"start":32489.98,"end":32517.725,"text":"因為啊這些如果氣墊船他全速衝到那個大稻埕碼頭的話我們如果從淡水河口來算大概大概15分鐘左右就會衝到了嘛那我當然有看到就是報紙有報導說那有一個做法就是把那個關路大橋炸掉來讓這個氣墊船無法進來這也是其中一項做法這沒有這沒有問題但是如果將來有類似像這種用小船快艇進來的時候也許這個"},{"start":32518.305,"end":32518.665,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":32542.95,"end":32563.765,"text":"我們要區分出所謂灰色地帶的洗澡跟真正的從事這個軍事侵略這個行動兩個作為是不一樣的所以整個如果你想的是他整個氣墊船從淡水河口進來的話這是已經進入到軍事侵略的一個階段"},{"start":32565.192,"end":32575.746,"text":"這樣子的相關的一個部署的作為包括我們的海軍包括我們的這個相關的這些雷達的這個系統都勤監生都會啟動"},{"start":32577.045,"end":32603.193,"text":"那在淡水的河口相關的佈置都會有適切的冰火力,然後會編組戰略部隊來應處這樣的一個狀況。但是詳細的部署,我想我不宜在這邊講。我想這一塊我在將來我再跟您請教,我想有一些東西也許公開場合也不適合去提,甚至私下也不適合告訴我,這我都可以理解。那我再請教一下就是這個院長,"},{"start":32604.437,"end":32628.315,"text":"最近常常大家講說第5縱隊,主委可以先回去了,第5縱隊這個啊,甚至到有官員也都出來去附和這句話。那我想請問一下,如果照大家所說的,台灣有10萬個第5縱隊的人數,那這個不是一個很荒謬的事嗎?10萬人你運作要多少經費啊?那部長、院長你怎麼會?"},{"start":32629.929,"end":32656.529,"text":"就是底下的官員有的還附和這個民事和三立的這個報導然後他內文還寫到說所有兩岸情勢的官員透露出這個這個10萬人的這件事情那我覺得這個是不是有一個狀況就是要嘛你就叫我們的我們的國安局或誰去把這些人弄出來抓出來嘛要嘛你就應該叫NCC去管好這些媒體不要亂報嘛所以"},{"start":32658.871,"end":32673.86,"text":"你之前在當主席的時候啊其實你也有提過一個東西啊你就說如果這個NCC無法加強管理就要換個人甚至改變體制那今天發生這個狀況你說我們第五縱隊有什麼"},{"start":32674.66,"end":32689.686,"text":"十萬人結果你底下的官員還去跟人家附和這一句話結果你人也不抓十萬人你總抓個五百人出來嘛人也不抓然後NCC也不管那我實在不知道這個跟你當初的想法怎麼會差距那麼遠我覺得啦齁"},{"start":32690.646,"end":32719.343,"text":"包括像NCC對那個王逸川他這次提到的這個手機監控這個齁NCC要做行政調查說這個我也完全對NCC沒有任何信任度了也不期待啦齁但是我是希望一件事如果照院長您之前當黨主席時候的說NCC管不好那就換人甚至改變體制那也請院長齁能夠支持我們這次對於NCC組織法的的修正好啦那最後齁那個"},{"start":32720.901,"end":32744.309,"text":"請那個外交部長我想請問一下那個外交部長跟國防部長兩位當初在國會改革法案的時候是不是也有提過爭取聽證權、調查權跟這個法環還有刑責的設計是或不是就可以我想內容是不一樣的"},{"start":32745.888,"end":32763.385,"text":"但是有只是你認為不一樣沒關係因為挑問我大概都是跟各位的差不多好那還是這樣謝謝各位吳宗憲委員因為是外交部田次長部長請假現在是次長好的好的你要什麼書面資料的話謝謝吳宗憲委員執行謝謝卓院長的備詢"},{"start":32767.062,"end":32783.852,"text":"報告委員會本日排定的質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。非常謝謝卓院長、政府院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。6月18日星期二上午9時我們繼續開會進行施政方針報告之質詢。現在休息。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}