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雙方經過調試期做這個稅率上面能夠有一些分擔那政府做一些協助讓產業能夠安靜的去安心的去經營"},{"start":213.106,"end":221.71,"text":"我聽農業部的181,要補助他們的理事,要補助關稅,要叫他們更新設備,要叫他們做冷鏈,你是什麼?你是一百八十還是美金?我跟議員報告,農業部編的一百八十在裡面,"},{"start":234,"end":255.286,"text":"不是去補他們的關稅 只補他們的關稅補不了所以我們要趁這個機會 在短期之內我們是用金融去支持他們的資金壓力第二個部分就是說 他們外銷的時候的關稅通常是進口商跟出口商會有一個討論我們針對這個部分 我們做一些外銷獎勵讓這個訂單能夠持續走"},{"start":257.927,"end":267.757,"text":"然後最後的時候是希望說整個的產業的競爭力能夠趁這個機會能夠轉型以後那我們就有能力去面對未來的一些關稅的挑戰"},{"start":273.193,"end":294.765,"text":"鱸魚等等,藍輝都是大莊,院長你也有去所以我們非常關心,二線都一直在反映所以我是覺得你這個第一波的800多億是第一波的那你有可能一直加,就好像那次COVID-19,2100億一直加,加了4次"},{"start":296.755,"end":324.314,"text":"所以這個可能性是有的嘛委員我們當然希望經過調適以後產業自己能夠轉型升級多開發不同的市場那也許這樣下來我們更多元化的來看國際市場的時候我們的衝擊會降低那以後的生態會改變那一天毛豆業者說啊現在大陸消費米國的毛豆佔七成我們佔三成啊現在大陸整個關稅關所以呢我們的機會越多結果他就賺不到10%你要他就10%對啊"},{"start":327.11,"end":355.613,"text":"你多少也賺不到對不對 部長還有院長 這個重點來 部長請我跟你們報告 毛豆本身這個10%我跟他說10%不只是全部由我們的出口商來吸收所以相對的用這樣的 我們討論過這樣的一個利率本身我們如果能夠強攻中國本來在美國的這個市場讓量擴大的時候 其實它的利潤是會更大的"},{"start":356.414,"end":380.397,"text":"量大利率會增大對你的理神都會死了你這樣講有點毛病我們的毛豆本身是走高端市場的那高端市場的利潤會遠大於我們現在的關稅現在想毛豆那個機器一台都四五百萬五六百萬當然人命會不會有補助啦你知道都是老闆跟那個合夥人自己在開三更半夜因為太陽一出來"},{"start":381.872,"end":401.124,"text":"漏水漏氣,毛豆會變苦,所以都在太陽出來之前,他們就燒,都半夜在燒毛豆,你知道嗎,都是老闆自己在開車,開那個滑倒機,而且刮到石石下去,肚骨連下去,我也被叫成這樣,所以喔,"},{"start":402.093,"end":427.588,"text":"他們是很辛苦的所以那些外勞的部分移工的部分這個都要通盤考慮不然的話真的你要給他做多他也沒辦法好不好這很重要我們面面報告委員這個部長是經常到各地他非常了解農漁民的作業的這個狀況我想一般的國人也非常清楚農漁民在生產過程當中的辛苦"},{"start":428.228,"end":439.597,"text":"危險所以我們一定用農漁優先的角度是政府永遠不變的定律我們用這個方向來保護農民應該有的權益陳副長很認真 謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":447.13,"end":460.76,"text":"盲國啊 灘災他都很快的速度就公告那農民非常感謝大家一起來啦這個沒有分什麼藍綠啦好 謝謝 謝謝神父長那接著我們問交通的喔院長 我要跟你講齁我們屏東縣這二十幾年以來我們的交通"},{"start":477.413,"end":500.541,"text":"一隻有氣的,剛好二高,國道三號,這協商橋第一大通到零落,第二大通到南,第三大通到大鵬灣這是2006年,現在是2024再來我們的八八快速路,2000年就完工了"},{"start":502.762,"end":527.178,"text":"我們陳部長很認真,前幾天我們又去興村考察,他還講了一大堆,我告訴你,我把它review起來,整個屏東關二十幾年來,公路的交通建設,零!零!好,下一張,這是國道10號延伸到新威大橋,"},{"start":528.92,"end":548.986,"text":"這是我在北海日報的那一順,那個順的硬腦在講虛話,那個時候在銀建署定案的,2014年,就過了經過環評,經過什麼,那個時候親民黨也在反對等等,說環評有問題,好了,到今年年初,"},{"start":550.815,"end":578.108,"text":"動工 部長去動工 院長我不知道你去沒有因為連動工 連動工都因為颱風炎了好幾次對不對那這一條路 十年前就定案了 十年後才恆大斷崗所以交通建設沒那麼簡單啦 一定要經過繁瑣的評估又評估然後又...好了 那現在那一條已經"},{"start":579.264,"end":605.545,"text":"已經動工了不過那一條大部分都在高雄市只有尾端到新威大橋接到高速的北端然後我們西西方有旅遊啊農業啊交通啊還有病人的輸送等等好那現在屏東有三個第一個就是屏北的二塊那個院長你說要明年要動工115年我們就拼115年對對對跟你講的"},{"start":607.898,"end":636.347,"text":"比高鐵左營站跟仁甫跟大樹跟九州鄉然後併入國道3號這個院長你是很concern的希望這一條要像你講的如期明年動工我會盯著我會天天盯著你我們一起盯著交通部一起努力我聽你先說一下報告委員這一條院長有指示明年底一定要動工那我們現在正在改應該也是做得到明年的10月好"},{"start":637.248,"end":661.156,"text":"再來,這個是屏南快速路這一條部長我聽了你講了不下十次啦院長也講了好多次那這一條是從88街接到恆春北端要開前往的這條目前2032年才能通車啦一定,跟我剛才說斷"},{"start":663.597,"end":689.053,"text":"交通部送來的計畫應該比這個樂觀多但是先期的作業現在還在進行是不是部長了解一下我們希望119年可以得到院的核定119年如果我們整個環評整個計畫做好之後院核定之後我們7年可以完工119年2030對2030那那個高架的下面應該用自行車道"},{"start":690.849,"end":699.799,"text":"我以為有建議過,我覺得這是很好的建議,因為包含我們的高屏二塊,下面也用了包含人行道、包含自行車道,我們都有加下去"},{"start":700.646,"end":721.803,"text":"因為現在單車組越來越多也是開一個管道因為這一條外環我看徵收應該也不是很困難所以這一條應該要好好的加速的來好不好三個禮拜已經在院核定了它的可行性評估"},{"start":722.483,"end":750.348,"text":"目前部裡面會再做中規以及後續的這個環評當然希望照剛剛部長所說的2030年能夠來完成這個是我們先進的目標那個那個關稅那個我們沒辦法啦那個世襲萬變喔這比較實在啦我們已經已經核心性評估已經核定了一定這比較實在啦背信啦扶國立民比較重要來 接來繼續那這個是高鐵啦高鐵我在六塊處也跟"},{"start":751.206,"end":752.647,"text":"因為最後定案是走高雄,這是院長你"},{"start":772.213,"end":798.363,"text":"你拍板的嘛 走高雄火車站那個方案嘛回到原點嘛 從鳳山上來就變高架嘛鳳山之前是用地下嘛因為我在鄉中 所以我對這個很有感情那個高雄恰桃對我來說是美好的回憶好 那這個到六塊樹要2039年要走四年 那邊比較低的我們不夠"},{"start":801.547,"end":825.764,"text":"因為它一定的程序它從決定高雄方案之後交通部現在已經成了一個工作的平台再來就要進行一個綜合的規劃再來還有二階的環評才會送到院裡面把整個完整的計畫來核定這要有一定的時間那因為這麼大的工程先前的準備工作還有這個程序都必須要嚴謹也必須要完成"},{"start":827.386,"end":841.609,"text":"未來完成之後對大高雄地區、大南部地區,包括屏東,應該是非常好的一個未來生活圈的...事實上我們屏東的立委、民意代表跟屏東的鄉親,不是只要6塊錢而已,從隔壁站過來1.4公里,那條高鐵站到底要幹什麼?"},{"start":849.653,"end":861.616,"text":"我們希望能夠遵守嘛,保定你也說軌道是開啟的嘛,要接過去嘛我要跟院長報告就是說,2039年到六塊處,要到潮州不知道到2050年還是2060年,我們都死了"},{"start":871.94,"end":881.55,"text":"到六塊座之後的延伸的想法現在交通部部長他也有一些準備的工作在準備那這個一定要進一步去規劃再進行"},{"start":883.379,"end":911.482,"text":"首先跟委員報告您剛剛在關心的2039年這件事除了交通部的鐵道局現在有一個工作平台大家正在協商要加速之外我們陳金德政委在2月份也有開過會議針對這個延伸屏東案要怎麼樣加速所以這個時間我們希望在2039年之前可以往前再拉這個部分我們正在努力恆春觀光鐵道你這次去恆春部長你有講"},{"start":912.574,"end":926.164,"text":"我要給你漏氣一下2016年林全做保定,做管理,做議定他說2016年要動工,2025年要完工,今天剛好2025年結果我前陣子又聽蘇貞昌院長說,那個案子出銷了嗎我現在又聽陳部長,你還在那裡說,你在鄉村又說喔我們所有的鄉親都聽到了,現在這到底是什麼"},{"start":942.052,"end":963.481,"text":"報告委員林全院長當時答應後來因為一些行政上面的討論就稍微有停頓那我們現在又重新再開始來討論這個案子所以這個案子我們會繼續往前的推動這個公共鐵道從內思要到恆春是非常好但是後來評估又評估後來就完全連動都沒動所以這個"},{"start":967.964,"end":996.314,"text":"部長你如果想要走你就要跟我請車觀光鐵道的部分不要再一次荒涼了目前我們從高雄到屏東這一段目前到仿遼這一段我們的觀光列車其實有藍皮捷二號也有環島之星正在跑那未來的延伸段的部分現在交通部正在研議我們要啟動來做這件事情因為我們恆春那邊的旅遊院長你可能不知道也從高雄坐海運"},{"start":998.894,"end":1023.541,"text":"這邊是新的到那個車程然後再搭車那個都失敗失敗都失敗因為不方便所以這個要好好的規劃那這個觀光鐵道是有亮點但是要不要做怎麼做要好好的規劃而且你只要宣布你就要幹啦你不要像上次林全講一講就啪啪啪好下一張"},{"start":1026.943,"end":1056.438,"text":"今年是恆春建成150周年我看台南建成那個辦得非常好所以我們都非常期待今年2025年把恆春建成神保生建成到現在150年好好地幹一場院長你要全力支持喔可以嗎對於台灣這種文化的底氣我覺得如果各地都有一個自己的故事自己的特色每個鄉鎮每個城市都有這樣子有助於台灣整體觀光的發展"},{"start":1057.268,"end":1072.104,"text":"這樣子的政策我想請交通部總觀光署一定要全力來跟地方來合作前幾天到考察的時候我們發現大鵬灣恆春半島的旅遊是下降的"},{"start":1072.884,"end":1101.521,"text":"人數也下降所以這個是很血淋淋到處都在搶客人別的縣市也搶得台東也搶嘉義也搶所以沒有好好的規劃跟加重資源是嘴巴講講是沒有效的院長希望你敢講來下一張這個武力亭機場我要再提一下因為我到裡面去考察這個相片是我自己照的"},{"start":1103.442,"end":1129.778,"text":"美國那個蜿蜒公司有來評估過還有縣政府的人我們到裡面去考察吳里庭機場是可以好好的規劃雖然有洛杉磅南北但是有一個東西向的陸航部的基地我們用了很大的心血那希望這個跑道長度一千八百公尺前後引道各兩百"},{"start":1131.977,"end":1152.325,"text":"所以可以Z 彎流Z6500空氣的時候可以下降我研究過這樣所以普通 一定要這個好好來整理一下如果沒有 鄉村真的要整理會很困難我們希望大家用中央跟地方都一起來 好不好"},{"start":1153.287,"end":1174.947,"text":"報告委員 這個機場因為涉及到天候還有它飛航安全的總統顧慮以及使用的人數一直在降低航班的人數在降低 所以要暫時停下來未來 除了剛剛委員所提的那個方向之外是不是朝向無人航空器的方向來做推動或者是委員講的輕載型航空機來推動能夠讓軍民來合用"},{"start":1180.639,"end":1195.56,"text":"美國彎流公司它亞洲的商務客機有一千架一千架他們希望把那邊停把那邊都維修中心跟停的地方因為現在像郭台銘的飛機都停在馬力拉"},{"start":1196.687,"end":1210.753,"text":"停在馬尼拉,中正機場沒地方停,上海也沒地方停,香港也沒地方停,都停在馬尼拉,他坐在馬尼拉開過,開到松山當他搭,所以沒有地方停,這個地方是可以發展的。"},{"start":1211.872,"end":1236.693,"text":"那是哪,那是哪,那有環球公司的整個一年只有給我們政府的稅金50億以上喔50億以上如果他們有這樣子的意願可以來跟我們接洽,那我們來協助他們好,我找他們跟你們好好的來考察考察,好不好好,那部長請回我請經濟部長跟衛生部長,衛生部長請經濟部衛福部請備選"},{"start":1249.469,"end":1269.638,"text":"部長好委員好你上次講的說我們台電的支出裡面很多都是石化顏料那我查了我們國際原物料還有價格在二五戰爭第一年漲得非常高第二年就開始降了"},{"start":1271.203,"end":1273.664,"text":"燃料的部分不是只有石油化,還有其他的"},{"start":1296.627,"end":1313.884,"text":"所以那個整個物價上漲都是表現在他的成本上面台電我跟他查了他一年的收入差不多七千多億他的支出是八千多億所以一年要虧空一千億左右是不是這樣我們幾乎這幾年都這樣"},{"start":1317.227,"end":1340.389,"text":"我們台電的問題我想很多就是因為俄烏戰爭造成它有很多在成本上面上漲的原因但是在那段期間裡面我們所造成的虧損是由政府來希望能夠動漲這個電價不反映成本所以累積我們有那些虧損在"},{"start":1342.475,"end":1354.761,"text":"是這個樣子,所以因為他的負債比較高,所以他要去借錢我看台電今年可以理解到他負三四八億嗎?2016年台電還有透探機,2017年還有彈,到2018年也有73億"},{"start":1365.14,"end":1385.801,"text":"一直來一直來,到2022年,要求兩千多億台幣我去查,他真的是一年的收入差不多七千多支出要八千多億,這是事實因為收的錢就電價不能去,沒辦法反映成本我想這個委員你也很清楚,我的收入就是跟那些而已沒辦法反映成本"},{"start":1388.183,"end":1402.747,"text":"但是八千多億現在是我的成本啦所以這會造成這個虧損這完全是沒辦法啦所以不知道說行政院有編兩千億要來給台電啦我要跟院長講喔來不是前面前面台電在2014年的時候還發給每一副的用戶880塊"},{"start":1417.998,"end":1423.6,"text":"台電除了原物料燃油上漲之外台電近幾年來一直在做以氣換煤的電廠更新每一次電廠更新從原來的報價到最後完工"},{"start":1445.766,"end":1472.691,"text":"那個工程費用都是翻倍在成長因為這是整個物價人工材料等等的上漲這個每個工程修正計畫裡面都是這樣子所以不只是原物料這個問題在過去在COVID-19時間它累積的負債是比較高所以它累積到今天我們想辦法用當時它因為補貼民生沒有漲電價的這個原因把它補貼回來撥補給台電"},{"start":1474.844,"end":1488.36,"text":"前幾天我們AIT的處長他講說美國可以support我們的義太瓦斯、核能、新的核能等等等等,他們可以幫忙我們。"},{"start":1489.281,"end":1517.332,"text":"那我也看到院長你的回應說只要有新的核能選項你不排除嘛我們對於開放的討論學習甚至一起來做有必要的研究都應該我看美國 Google Amazon他們都自己都像川普兩天前又說他開放你們自己去蓋電廠核電廠什麼都來了所以他們是很開放的態度我倒是希望說不要堅持"},{"start":1518.106,"end":1546.897,"text":"一定要揮核什麼會讓人家覺得是這麼的MOSFET太老頑固了這不是我剛跟委員答覆過了能夠沒有安全的顧慮沒有核廢料而且大家都共識全民接受新的核能技術政府開放的態度來共同討論學習甚至研發這個核三長我企策要不然整座都不算了我非常非常關心因為核三長的員工真的是非常的"},{"start":1549.47,"end":1570.657,"text":"純樸,非常的好,非常的認真,這個真的是我們國家的財產,我們的寶貝,在那裡找鄉村人,住在鄉村,退學後在那裡買民宿,你也鄉村人,你幫了人,當那些人,我還去你家的古厝看呢,結果沒人在那裡住,你家那裡沒人在住,只剩一些鄉親在住而已。我還沒九年年紀,我們幫了住的人都九十多以上,九十多以下,"},{"start":1578.291,"end":1594.582,"text":"我一定要說,河山場五百多公頃,好好的去規劃,好好的做,那個真的是非常好,非常可惜。如果有新的技術、新的核能、新的現象,應該那個地方好好做。"},{"start":1595.612,"end":1606.602,"text":"那個地方我看也沒什麼問題。報告委員,現在是這樣的啦,現在我們的河山場的部分,以現行的河管法規定,我們的這條離岸是40噸啦,台電必須要遵照河岸會的規範去執行。"},{"start":1613.971,"end":1634.156,"text":"我認為河山的二號機應過的燃料池空間是不足的所以沒辦法運電到60噸所以需要我們地方來支持興建乾燥的設施如果這些命題都可以來改觀我相信委員的支持和建議大家都可以來做參考"},{"start":1641.189,"end":1665.703,"text":"大家都很用心,大家都很疼惜這塊土地,大家都很聰明,沒有笨蛋。所以你們在講的,你們在看的,我們都在看。我們那個吸收國外的資訊,世界一流的資訊,我們的速度也不會比你們慢。所以,相信我們的腦筋也不錯啦。好,我想要說醫療,莫丁你先回。"},{"start":1671.032,"end":1688.042,"text":"時間有限,來,我要跟議長說,邱太元我做他三年的歷史就是做到這麼高的,所以我的配合很好,他也很認真,林靜雲、邱太元、石崇良,這段時間也表現得,他也要自己加油啦。"},{"start":1691.209,"end":1719.518,"text":"我沒有在跟人家苛責,一句話就不辦,但是我們要知道,請一個點滴,明明沒有,但是那是衝傷出問題,你也不能把它放下去,所以一直在做,大家罵,罵歸罵,還是要做事啦,那現在台灣的問題就是人口老化太快,快到你沒辦法掌握,一下子非常嚴重,然後醫療量量的不足,"},{"start":1720.98,"end":1748.491,"text":"又加上這個火力啦 醫生啦 大家跑來跑去的那你生起來很多預算在做那我要跟你講一個就是我們台灣在急診室去急診的人分做一二三四五啦可能一定你不太知道一二級就是要站上去啦那要水 有藥卡的 有要急救的三級是普通普通四級五級是可以等的所有老人來齁 差不多三級來"},{"start":1749.963,"end":1777.028,"text":"才三次來,他才有六、七次惡化病一、二次所以都放他進軍事院醫生也不可以讓他回去家屬也不可以讓他回去白人也不可以讓他回去所以問題就出在這裡所以在這裡醫療分子在台灣不成功不成功,真的不成功而且每一個人都很友好老人都孤,像我老婆96歲我們本來也孤到咪咪咪是怎樣"},{"start":1780.561,"end":1804.778,"text":"所以這跟台灣形不太同所以我要跟部長講他很用心的在搞這個所以醫療、人力、空間、量能都非常的緊切那最後我要跟你講最後一張我要跟院長還是要跟你請求台灣的"},{"start":1806.368,"end":1835.199,"text":"住宅區裡面的中型醫院尤其是社團法人跟私人醫院那裡碰到的空間不足還有容積力太低你上次跟我答應說你要通盤考慮有沒有醫院是一個無人生命健康最重要的地方所以它本身它必須要符合種種的安全法規那如果因為整體的檢討有必要做政治的調整的時候會不會自然"},{"start":1855.44,"end":1856.24,"text":"接下來我們請范雲委員質詢圖全"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":27,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（9時1分）謝謝主席，有請院長及農業部長、交通部長。"],["主席：請卓院長、農業部、交通部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：大家都辛苦了。"],["蘇委員清泉：我等這場剛好等了六次政黨質詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們等的時間同樣久啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：我這個版本已經換了N次了，這十來天大家真的都辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長你也去屏東及各處巡視，一下子是IT、一下子是中小企業、一下子是漁業，包括農業部長也跑了好幾個地方。我第一個問題要先問對等關稅，玩到現在結果是在玩美債，我們也嚇了一跳，我想我們行政單位要跟美國談判應該隨時要掌握啦！因為美國那邊換來換去，在我們醫生看起來，我覺得川普總統真的是有點問題啦！邱部長等一下可以解釋、解釋，他早上又改口說半導體他還是要課。我先請問院長，我們編了880億，裡面農業的部分是180億嘛，我一直在問陳部長說你這個180億到底是要做什麼？因為昨天還有養鱸魚的人跟我說，也有種蘭花的人跟我說，說他們的利潤都差不多10%上下而已，如果被課徵10%就已經到底，而你談到最後有可能是20%或百分之二十幾，那他們就不用賣了啊！這些錢是要用來補他們的關稅差額，這樣180億是要補什麼？不用兩三下就補完了啊！那你3個月後要怎麼辦？你明年要怎麼辦？請問院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個880億對產業的支持方案，我一直強調是用產業受困面的需求來編列，我想短期面對目前的問題，我們先有一個讓整個產業的調適期，我們一定要幫產業經過這個調適期，調適期有兩個：一方面是我們跟美方的談判會持續進行，當然我要爭取最有利於我國的一些利益；第二個，談判的內容到底會對產業形成怎麼樣的實際經營面的損害，我們還沒有確定、還沒有辦法定案，但是我們先把初期這個衝擊把它算出來，所以我們從低的推估、高的推估，到過去32%的最高推估都進行了試算，我們當然希望它越低越好，雙方經過調適期在稅率上面能夠有一些分擔，政府做一些協助，讓產業能夠安心的經營。"],["蘇委員清泉：我聽農業部的180億，又要補助他們的利息、又要補助關稅、又要叫他們更新設備、又要叫他們做冷鏈，你這180億是美金，還是……部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長答復一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農業部編的180億裡面不是去補他們的關稅，如果光是補他們的關稅，是補不完的。"],["蘇委員清泉：對。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們要趁這個機會，在短期之內用金融支持他們的資金壓力。第二個部分是他們外銷時的關稅，通常進口商跟出口商會有一個討論，我們針對這個部分做一些外銷績效獎勵，讓訂單能夠持續走，最後是希望整個產業的競爭力能夠趁這個機會轉型以後，我們就有能力去面對未來的關稅挑戰。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。我們屏東那裡有毛豆、鱸魚、蘭花等等都是大宗。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，你也有去，我們非常關心，現在一直在反映，所以我覺得你這個第一波的八百多億是……就像你剛才講的那是第一波的……"],["卓院長榮泰：短期。"],["蘇委員清泉：你有可能一直加碼，就好像那次COVID-19從2,100億一直加、加了4次，所以這個可能性是有的嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們當然希望經過調適以後，產業自己能夠轉型、升級、多開發不同的市場，也許這樣下來我們更多元化地來看國際市場的時候，我們的衝擊會降低，以後的生態會改變。"],["蘇委員清泉：那一天毛豆業者說，現在大陸銷往美國的毛豆占七成，我們占三成，現在大陸銷美的關稅高，所以我們的機會變多，結果我們賺不到10%，10%已經打底了，就算機會變多，我們還是受不了，對不對？部長、還有院長，這個重點……"],["卓院長榮泰：部長請。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，毛豆本身大概10%……我剛才說了，10%不只是全部由我們的出口商來吸收，所以我們討論過，相對地用這樣的利率，我們如果能夠搶攻中國本來在美國的市場，讓量擴大的時候，其實它的利潤是會更大的。"],["蘇委員清泉：量大，利潤就增大？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：它的利潤就一點點而已，你這樣講有一點毛病。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，那個牽涉到我們的毛豆本身是走高端市場，高端市場的利潤會遠大於我們現在的關稅。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在收成毛豆的機器一台都四、五百萬或五、六百萬，當然農業部有補助，你知道都是老闆跟合夥人三更半夜自己在開，因為太陽一出來，露水沒了，毛豆會變苦，所以必須在太陽出來之前、在半夜收成毛豆，你知道都是老闆自己在開割稻機，有人還因為打瞌睡而摔下來，我也救過這種人，他們是很辛苦的，所以那些外勞的部分、移工的部分都要通盤考慮，不然的話，你要他們多做一點，他們也沒辦法，好不好？這個很重要，我們面面……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，部長經常到各地，他非常瞭解農漁民作業的狀況，我想一般的國人也非常清楚農漁民在生產過程當中的辛苦、危險，所以我們一定用農漁優先的角度，這是政府永遠不變的定律，我們用這個方向來保護農漁民應該有的權益。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們陳部長很認真，真的，要跟他加油。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝委員的支持，部長確實是到各地去跑。"],["蘇委員清泉：尤其像玉荷包、芒果的勘災，他都用很快的速度公告，農民非常感激，大家一起來，這個沒有分什麼藍綠，謝謝陳部長。","接續我想問交通的部分。院長，我要跟你說：我們屏東縣這二十多年來的交通真的有建設的有二高、國道3號，簡報上的圖片是高屏溪斜張橋，第一階段通車到麟洛，第二階段通車到林邊，第三階段通車到大鵬灣，這是2006年的建設，現在是2025年；再來，我們的88快速公路在2000年就完工了。交通部陳部長很年輕，前幾天我們還去恆春考察，你也講了一大堆，我跟你說，我review起來，整個屏東縣二十多年公路的交通建設是零！","這一張是國道10號延伸到新威大橋，這是在我擔任第8屆立委的時候，那時的院長是江宜樺，這條道路是在營建署定案的，在2014年經過環評等評估，當時親民黨也在反對等等說是環評有問題，到今年年初，部長才去主持動工，我不知道院長有沒有去？"],["卓院長榮泰：那次我有去。"],["蘇委員清泉：因為颱風的關係，導致動工延了好幾次，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：這一條道路在10年前就已經定案了，10年後才開始動工，所以交通建設沒有那麼簡單，勢必要經過繁瑣的評估程序。好了，現在那條已經動工了，但是那一條大部分都在高雄市，只有尾端接到新威大橋再接到高速公路的北端，是希望可以幫助旅遊、農業、交通，還有病人的輸送等等。屏東目前有三個建設，第一個是屏北的二快，院長說明年就要動工。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們拚115年動工。"],["蘇委員清泉：對，這是你說的喔！從高鐵左營站接到仁武、大樹、九如鄉，再併入國道3號，這是院長很關心的嘛！希望這一條道路要像你講的，明年能如期動工，我會盯著。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起盯著，交通部也會一起努力。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長說明一下。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，院長有指示明年底這一條道路一定要動工，我們現在正在趕，應該可以在明年10月做到。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，再來是屏南快速道路，我聽部長講了不下十次啦！院長也講了好多次，這一條道路是從88快速道路接到恆春北端，需要花費一千多億，要等到2032年才能通車，院長有辦法縮短時程嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：交通部送來的計畫應該比這個樂觀得多，但是先期的作業，現在還在進行，是不是請部長瞭解一下。"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望在119年可以得到院的核定，如果能在119年把整個環評、整個計畫完成及報院核定之後，7年可以完工。"],["蘇委員清泉：119年？"],["卓院長榮泰：2030年。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：2030年，好。在高架的下方應該要設置自行車道，多一個……"],["陳部長世凱：委員有建議過。"],["蘇委員清泉：我有建議過，那個很重要。"],["陳部長世凱：我覺得這是很好的建議，在這個高屏二快高架下方也設置了包含人行道、自行車道，都已有加進去。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在單車族越來越多，也是開一個管道。因為這條路線都是走外環，我看徵收應該也不是很困難啦！所以這一條應該要好好的、加速的辦理，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：上個禮拜在本院已經核定了它的可行性評估，目前部裡會再做綜規以及後續的環評，當然希望照剛剛部長所說的，能夠在2030年完成，這是我們前進的目標。"],["蘇委員清泉：那個關稅問題，我們沒辦法啦！瞬息萬變，這個比較實在。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經核定可行性評估，就會請……"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，關心百姓的問題比較實在啦！福國利民比較重要。接下來是高鐵問題，我跟部長在六塊厝有見過一次面。"],["陳部長世凱：對，有去會勘過。"],["蘇委員清泉：你有拍胸脯拍到瘀青的說，六塊厝的車站要先做，還要遷移嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["蘇委員清泉：你要先做現在說是做到六塊厝……因為最後定案是走高雄路線，這是院長拍版的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：高雄方案。"],["蘇委員清泉：走高雄火車站的方案，回到原點，從鳳山上來後就變高架，鳳山之前是走地下嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對，走地下。"],["蘇委員清泉：因為我是讀雄中的，所以對這很有感情，高雄車站對我來說是美好的回憶。好，這條路線到六塊厝要等到2039年，這嚇死人，命比較短的，根本等不到啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為它有一定的程序，從決定高雄方案之後，現在交通部已經成立一個工作的平台，再來就要進行一個綜合的規劃，然後還有二階的環評，才會送到院裡面，對整個完整的計畫來核定，這要有一定的時間，因為是這麼大的工程，先前的準備工作還有程序都必須要嚴謹，也必須要完成。在未來完成之後，對大高雄地區、大南部地區，包括屏東，應該是可以營造一個非常好的未來生活圈。"],["蘇委員清泉：事實上，我們屏東的立委、民意代表跟屏東的鄉親不是只有希望到六塊厝而已，從高屏溪過來才1.4公里，這樣我們那一條高鐵在那裡是要做什麼？我們希望的是到潮州嘛！部長，你也說軌道是開啟的，要接過去嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對，我會做尾軌，可以接。"],["蘇委員清泉：我要跟院長報告，在2039年到六塊厝，那如果要到潮州，不就要等到2050年還是2060年，到時候我們都死光了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：到六塊厝之後再延伸的想法，現在交通部部長也有一些準備的工作正在進行，這個一定要進一步去規劃然後再進行。"],["陳部長世凱：首先跟委員報告，您剛剛在關心的2039年這件事，除了交通部的鐵道局，現在也有一個工作平臺，大家除了正在協商要加速之外，陳金德政委在2月份也有開過會議討論這個延伸屏東案要怎麼樣加速，所以對於這個時間，我們希望在2039年之前可以再往前拉，這個部分我們正在努力。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，要加油啦！請看下一張，關於恆春觀光鐵道，你這次去恆春，部長也有講，我要給你漏氣一下，2016年林全在當院長的時候說2016年要動工、2025年要完工，今年剛好是2025年，結果我前一陣子還聽到蘇貞昌院長說那個案子不是取消了嗎？我現在再聽到陳部長在恆春的時候講，我們所有的鄉親都聽到了，現在這個到底是怎麼樣？你不要「黑白講」喔！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，之前林全院長當時確實有答應，後來因為一些行政上面的討論，所以就稍微有停頓，我們現在又重新再開始來討論這個案子，所以這個案子我們會繼續往前推動。"],["蘇委員清泉：這一個觀光鐵道要從內獅到恆春，這是非常好啦！但是後來說要評估，到最後完全連動都沒動。部長，如果你有想要做，你就要講清楚，不要再一次黃牛啦！"],["陳部長世凱：是，關於觀光鐵道的部分，目前從高雄到屏東枋寮這一段，我們的觀光列車其實有藍皮解憂號、環島之星正在跑，對未來延伸段的部分，現在交通部正在研議，我們要啟動來做這件事情。"],["蘇委員清泉：對於我們恆春那邊的旅遊，院長你可能不知道，之前有推出從高雄經海運到車城然後再搭車的觀光路線，可是都失敗了，因為不方便，所以這個要好好的規劃。這個觀光鐵道是有亮點，但是要不要做、怎麼做，應該要好好的規劃，而且你只要宣布了就要幹，你不要像上次林全講一講以後就像泡泡破掉一樣。","好，請看下一張，那今年是恆春建城150週年，我看臺南建城那個活動辦得非常好，所以我們都非常期待今年2025年的活動，從沈葆楨在恆春建城到現在已經150年，你們要好好地幹一場，院長，你要全力支持喔！可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對於臺灣這種文化的底氣，我覺得如果各地都有一個自己的故事、自己的特色，在每個鄉鎮、每個城市都有這樣的……將有助於臺灣整體觀光的發展，這樣子的政策，我想請交通部、觀光署一定要全力來跟地方合作。"],["蘇委員清泉：前幾天我們去考察的時候發現大鵬灣、恆春半島的旅遊是下降的，人數也下降了，這個是很血淋淋，到處都在搶客人，別的縣市都在搶，臺東也搶，嘉義也搶，所以沒有好好的規劃跟加重資源，而只是嘴巴講講，這樣是沒有效的，院長，希望你加強。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["蘇委員清泉：來，請看下一張，這個是五里亭機場，我要再提一下，因為我有到裡面去考察，這個相片是我自己照的，美國灣流公司也有來評估過，還有縣政府的人，我們一起到裡面去考察。五里亭機場是可以好好來規劃，雖然有落山風、南北，但是有一個東西向的陸航部基地，我們用了很大的心血，這個跑道長度1,800公尺，前後引道各200公尺，所以灣流G650空機的時候可以下降，我們研究到這個程度，所以部長和院長，這個好好來規劃一下，不然恆春要拉得起來真的很困難，我們希望中央跟地方都一起來，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個機場可能因為涉及到天候，還有飛航安全的種種顧慮，以及使用人數一直在降低，航班的人數在降低，所以暫時停下來。未來除了剛剛委員所提的那個方向之外，是不是朝向無人航空器的方向來做推動，或者是如委員講的以輕載型航空器來推動，能夠讓軍民來合用。"],["蘇委員清泉：美國灣流公司亞洲的商務客機有1,000架，他們希望把那邊當作維修中心以及停的地方，因為現在像郭台銘的飛機都停在馬尼拉，中正機場沒地方停，上海也沒地方停，香港也沒地方停，所以都停在馬尼拉，他要搭再從馬尼拉開到松山讓他搭，都沒有地方停，因此這個地方是可以發展的。如果按照灣流公司的規劃，一年繳給我們政府的稅金達50億以上。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，如果他們有這樣子的意願可以來跟我們接洽，我們來協助他們。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，我找他們跟你們好好的來考察，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長請回，我請經濟部長和衛福部長。"],["主席：經濟部、衛福部，請備詢。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長好。你上次說我們台電的支出裡面很多都是石化原料，我查了國際原物料價格，在俄烏戰爭第一年漲得非常高，第二年就開始降，真的往下降，到最近、昨天又降價了，布蘭特原油和西德州中級原油都下跌，結果我們的電價一直往上飆，所以除了你說的原物料以外，還有什麼理由？"],["郭部長智輝：因為燃料的部分不是只有石油化，還有其他的，所以整個物價上漲都是表現在它的成本上面。"],["蘇委員清泉：我查了，台電一年的收入差不多七千多億，支出是八千多億，所以一年要虧空1,000億左右，是不是這樣？幾乎這幾年都這樣。"],["郭部長智輝：台電的問題，我想很多都是因為俄烏戰爭造成在成本上面上漲的原因，但是在那一段期間裡面，我們所造成的虧損是由……政府希望能夠凍漲電價，不反映成本，所以我們累積有那些虧損在，是這個樣子，因為它的負債比較高，所以它要去借錢，台電一年光是利息就要付三、四百億。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，你看這個data，2016年台電還有賺錢，2017年也還有賺錢，到了2018年是minus 73億，一直來到2022年是兩千多億，我去查了，台電一年的收入差不多七千多億，支出要八千多億，這是事實。"],["郭部長智輝：因為電價不能漲，所以收的錢沒辦法反映成本，我想這個委員也很清楚，我的收入就只有那些而已，沒辦法反映成本，就是八千多億裡面是我的成本，所以會造成虧損也是沒辦法，行政院才會編列2,000億要給台電來抵銷這個負債。"],["蘇委員清泉：我要跟院長講，台電在2014年的時候還發給每一戶的用戶880塊，即分紅利、分紅包啦！為什麼2014一直來到現在的2024，卻賠到脫褲子？這不只是說什麼油漲價、瓦斯漲價，這些不足以解釋啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，除了原物料、燃油上漲之外，台電近幾年來一直在做以氣換煤的電廠更新，每一次電廠更新從原來的報價到最後完工，工程費用都是翻倍在成長，因為這是整個物價、人工、材料等等的上漲，每一個工程修正計畫裡面都是這樣子，所以不只是原物料這個問題。當然過去在COVID-19期間，累積的負債是比較高，所以它累積到今天，當時它因為補貼民生沒有漲電價的原因，我們想辦法把它補貼回來、撥補給台電。"],["蘇委員清泉：前幾天AIT處長說美國可以support我們液態瓦斯、新的核能等等，他們可以幫忙我們，我也看到院長的回應，你說只要有新的核能選項，你不排除嘛！部長，你也知道我們的看法嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都願意開放地討論、學習，甚至一起來做有必要的研究，這都應該要做。"],["蘇委員清泉：我看美國Google、Amazon他們自己都……像川普兩天前又說，他開放你們自己去蓋電廠、核電廠、什麼都來啦，所以他們是很開放的態度，我倒是希望不要堅持一定要非核或什麼的，會讓人家覺得是太老頑固了，這不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛跟委員答復過了，能夠沒有安全的顧慮、沒有核廢料，而且大家都有共識、全民接受，對新的核能技術，政府採開放的態度來共同討論、學習，甚至研發。"],["蘇委員清泉：我去核三廠不知道多少趟，已經算不清了，我非常非常關心，因為核三廠的員工真的是非常地淳樸、非常地好、非常地認真，真的是我們國家的財產、我們的寶貝，在那邊娶恆春人、住在恆春，在退休之後，就在那邊開民宿。你也是恆春人，他是枋寮東海人，我還去他家的老宅看過，結果沒人在那邊住了，你家那邊沒人在住了，剩下一些宗親住而已。"],["郭部長智輝：我還沒到那樣的年紀啦！在枋寮住的人都是90歲以上跟10歲以下。"],["蘇委員清泉：我要跟院長說，核三廠有五百多公頃，好好地去規劃、好好地做，那個真的是非常好，不然會非常可惜啦！如果有新的技術、新的核能、新的選項，應該放在那個地方好好做，那個地方我看也沒什麼……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在是這樣啦！現在核三廠的部分，依現行核管法規定我們的執照年限是40年，台電必須要遵照核安會的規範去執行，現在核三廠2號機用過的燃料池空間是不足的，沒辦法運行60年，所以需要我們地方來支持興建乾貯設施，如果這些命題都可以解決，我相信委員的指示及建議，大家都可以來參考。"],["蘇委員清泉：大家都很用心，大家都很疼惜這塊土地，大家都很聰明，沒有笨蛋，所以你們在講的、你們在看的，我們都在看，我們吸收國外的資訊、世界一流的資訊，我們的速度也不會比你們慢，所以相信我們的腦筋也不錯啦！","好，最後剩下3分鐘，我要來談醫療。部長，你先請回，時間有限。我要跟院長說，我擔任3年的理事長，做完才交給邱泰源，所以我們配合地很好，他也很認真。林靜儀、邱泰源、石崇良，他們這段時間的表現也要幫他們加油啦！我沒有苛責過他們，一句話也沒有，但是我們期待……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的鼓勵，大家都很認真，我知道。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：像點滴的問題「糜糜卯卯」，那是廠商出問題，但你也不能就放任它這樣，所以你們一直在做，大家罵，罵歸罵，還是要做事啦！現在臺灣的問題就是人口老化太快，快到你沒有辦法掌握，一下子非常嚴重，然後醫療量能都不足，又加上護理、醫生大家跑的跑、逃的逃，你爭取了很多預算在做，那我要跟你講一個就是，我們臺灣在急診室，去急診的人分成一、二、三、四、五啦，可能院長你不太知道，一、二級就是快要死了，有的OHCA、有的要急救，三級是普通普通，四級、五級是可以等的，所有來的老人都差不多是三級的，三級來的差不多有六、七成會惡化變一、二級，所以都放在急診室，醫生也不敢讓他回去，家屬也不肯讓他回去，病患也不要回去，問題就出在這裡，所以醫療分級在臺灣不會成功，真的不會成功，而且每一個人都很孝順，老人都照顧，像我媽96歲，本來也照顧得很好，是怎樣？孝順啦！孝順，所以這在臺灣行不太通，所以我要跟部長講，他很用心地在搞這個，所以醫療人力、空間、量能都非常地緊缺啦！","最後我要跟你講最後一張，我要跟院長……還是要跟你請求啦，臺灣住宅區裡面的中型醫院，尤其是社團法人跟私人醫院碰到空間不足還有容積率太低，你上次跟我答應說你要通盤考慮，有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：醫院是一個對國人生命健康最重要的地方，所以它本身必須要符合種種的安全法規，如果因為整體的檢討有必要做政策調整的時候，衛福部自然會通盤地考量，目前我們還沒有聽到衛福部要針對哪個個案來做處理。"],["蘇委員清泉：屏東縣二十幾家醫院都空間不夠，所以這個……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會考量各地醫療的均衡再做規劃。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝蘇清泉委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","接下來我們請范雲委員質詢，涂權吉委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":159,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","蘇清泉","范雲","涂權吉","王美惠","洪孟楷","劉建國","鄭正鈐","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2025-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00003","1143401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143401_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}