{"error":false,"id":["160162"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":160162,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160162","日期":"2025-04-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-3-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期第7次會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第3會期第7次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-04-15T10:47:28+08:00","結束時間":"2025-04-15T11:18:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff8fb8a229f5b3ff9985b3670cf9e9ca07f87cc90aeb78e39b53bf68f23d1bafee4908f1f42fde8f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"10:47:28 - 11:18:28","會議時間":"2025-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第7次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項（4月11日上午）。二、行政院院長提出針對美國關稅政策因應作為專案報告並備質詢（4月11日下午）。三、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢（4月15日）。四、4月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.000343750000001,"end":9.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.34596875,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.73659375,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.17096875,"end":27.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.891593750000002,"end":30.422843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.76034375,"end":34.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.69221875,"end":35.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.04221875,"end":44.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.73284375,"end":52.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.93409375,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.09784375,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.02159375,"end":65.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.74221875,"end":76.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.86284375000001,"end":77.48721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.87534375,"end":85.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.21159375,"end":90.81846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.70909375000001,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.03784375000001,"end":92.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.61159375000001,"end":92.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.46784375,"end":102.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.86284375000001,"end":104.70659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.94284375000001,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.57971875000001,"end":111.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.16534375,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.66721875,"end":113.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.03846875,"end":114.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.30846875,"end":114.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.84846875000001,"end":119.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.23596875000001,"end":119.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":119.25284375000001,"end":119.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.47221875000001,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.53971875,"end":119.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.79284375,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.03721875000001,"end":122.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.40846875000001,"end":122.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.77971875,"end":130.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.17096875000001,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.20471875,"end":130.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.22159375,"end":130.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.94721875000002,"end":130.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.60096875000002,"end":138.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.62534375,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.14409375,"end":145.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.96596875,"end":164.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.46096875,"end":167.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.44784375,"end":169.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.33346875,"end":180.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.36721875,"end":171.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.63284375,"end":171.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.52721875,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.73284375,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.58846875,"end":185.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.60534375,"end":192.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.57034375,"end":198.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.58221875,"end":207.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.96471875,"end":209.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.63534375,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.03534375,"end":216.46971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.84096875,"end":226.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.68846875000003,"end":222.93284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":225.54846875,"end":230.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.93221875,"end":227.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.68284375000002,"end":230.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.23534375000003,"end":237.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.96846875000003,"end":240.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":240.28034375000001,"end":240.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":240.63471875000002,"end":250.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.81034375000002,"end":258.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.21534375000002,"end":252.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.50159375,"end":256.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.98659375,"end":263.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.37784375,"end":265.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.08221875000004,"end":267.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.34784375000004,"end":267.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.14096875,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.25846875,"end":272.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.73096875000005,"end":272.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.79409375,"end":277.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.52784375000005,"end":276.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.08034375,"end":288.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.11409375,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.97471875,"end":280.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.96471875000003,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.13346875,"end":289.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.15034375,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.43721875,"end":289.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.45409375,"end":289.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.85909375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.07846875,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.11221875,"end":291.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":291.79971875,"end":293.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.21284375000005,"end":309.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.09659375,"end":309.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.45096875,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":309.53534375000004,"end":309.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.55221875,"end":309.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.97409375,"end":315.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.18034375,"end":313.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.97346875,"end":314.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.72846875000005,"end":315.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.81284375,"end":315.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.82971875000004,"end":315.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.99846875000003,"end":322.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.81596875,"end":323.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.45721875000004,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.88659375000003,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.59096875,"end":336.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.30346875000004,"end":335.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.26534375,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.31596875,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.38346875,"end":336.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.60596875000005,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.50034375,"end":345.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.25534375,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.27159375,"end":351.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.30846875000003,"end":357.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.03784375000004,"end":363.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.19346875,"end":368.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.91846875000005,"end":371.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.92221875,"end":378.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.54596875000004,"end":381.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.13159375000004,"end":384.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.99221875,"end":385.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.08034375,"end":390.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.67034375000003,"end":393.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.71659375,"end":391.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.75034375,"end":391.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.93596875000003,"end":391.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.69096875,"end":393.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.21409375,"end":398.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.46659375,"end":399.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.96846875,"end":402.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.38159375000004,"end":404.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.74409375000005,"end":407.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.27096875,"end":408.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.97971875,"end":413.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.78909375,"end":427.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.18346875000003,"end":431.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.78659375,"end":443.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.97846875000005,"end":445.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.56471875000005,"end":448.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.04096875000005,"end":457.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.71471875000003,"end":459.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.80721875,"end":462.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.06409375000004,"end":464.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.70096875,"end":466.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.45596875,"end":468.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.07159375000003,"end":470.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.70846875,"end":471.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.19346875,"end":474.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.20534375000005,"end":483.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.96784375000004,"end":488.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.92534375,"end":491.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.94596875,"end":491.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.80221875,"end":495.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":494.38409375000003,"end":512.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.41721875,"end":498.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.43409375000005,"end":498.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.45096875,"end":501.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.08721875000003,"end":506.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.96346875,"end":516.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.62534375,"end":519.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.2578437500001,"end":520.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.70909375,"end":521.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":522.39659375,"end":525.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.37909375,"end":529.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.58534375,"end":531.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.3234687500001,"end":531.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.4922187500001,"end":531.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.54284375,"end":531.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.96471875,"end":533.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.22596875,"end":534.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.4578437499999,"end":538.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":538.9340937500001,"end":545.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.5490937500001,"end":547.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.2490937499999,"end":548.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.45159375,"end":551.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.92784375,"end":554.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":555.03284375,"end":555.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.60659375,"end":558.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.44159375,"end":563.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.5547187500001,"end":566.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.4740937500001,"end":568.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.6003437500001,"end":570.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.0134687500001,"end":571.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.7222187500001,"end":573.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.9665937500001,"end":580.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.32846875,"end":586.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.84221875,"end":595.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.0403437500001,"end":589.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.63909375,"end":590.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.6728437500001,"end":590.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":595.5834687500001,"end":602.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.6340937500001,"end":596.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.12346875,"end":596.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.2453437500001,"end":599.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.6965937500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.8059687500001,"end":602.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9072187500001,"end":612.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.54409375,"end":605.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.1809687500001,"end":606.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.2903437500001,"end":608.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.15909375,"end":616.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.9640937500001,"end":617.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.06534375,"end":620.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.2378437500001,"end":620.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.28846875,"end":624.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.3728437500001,"end":620.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.4740937500001,"end":621.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.1572187500001,"end":623.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.8490937500001,"end":624.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.37221875,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.9753437500001,"end":626.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.3972187500001,"end":626.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.4140937500001,"end":640.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.28096875,"end":642.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.8290937500001,"end":645.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.87096875,"end":654.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":655.18596875,"end":655.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.29971875,"end":658.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":658.54409375,"end":659.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":659.9953437500001,"end":660.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":661.3959687500001,"end":662.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.4253437500001,"end":666.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.72846875,"end":667.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.1459687500001,"end":668.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.39471875,"end":670.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.0359687499999,"end":671.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.34784375,"end":673.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.9340937500001,"end":674.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.99721875,"end":681.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":677.81534375,"end":678.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.62096875,"end":680.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":681.9665937500001,"end":682.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.01721875,"end":682.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.55721875,"end":682.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.6753437500001,"end":682.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.6922187499999,"end":685.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":685.96596875,"end":693.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.01534375,"end":699.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.9722187500001,"end":702.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":703.0434687500001,"end":711.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.0590937500001,"end":711.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.0759687500001,"end":711.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.39659375,"end":712.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.0378437500001,"end":716.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.74596875,"end":718.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":718.46721875,"end":718.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.58096875,"end":719.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":719.69909375,"end":723.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.71596875,"end":720.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.0365937500001,"end":720.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.17159375,"end":720.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.4753437500001,"end":721.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.99409375,"end":722.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.4115937500001,"end":730.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.2922187500001,"end":738.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.02534375,"end":747.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.1384687500001,"end":744.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":744.6909687500001,"end":745.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":745.75409375,"end":746.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":747.96471875,"end":757.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.4709687500001,"end":748.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.1628437500001,"end":750.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.49471875,"end":762.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.17346875,"end":762.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":762.5278437500001,"end":763.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.61221875,"end":763.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":763.55721875,"end":771.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.4384687500001,"end":768.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.5390937500001,"end":784.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.2934687500001,"end":778.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.46159375,"end":782.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.4740937500001,"end":783.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.0265937500001,"end":791.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.08971875,"end":786.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":791.6203437500001,"end":792.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.73409375,"end":798.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.03284375,"end":799.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.29409375,"end":807.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.7622187500001,"end":802.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":804.8672187500001,"end":805.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":806.87534375,"end":807.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.9722187500001,"end":813.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.2547187500002,"end":813.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":813.5915937500001,"end":821.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.67596875,"end":815.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":818.5359687500002,"end":819.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.9953437500001,"end":830.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.48846875,"end":826.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":831.0065937500001,"end":839.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.20909375,"end":831.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":832.37346875,"end":833.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.0147187500002,"end":833.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":840.11909375,"end":840.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":841.21596875,"end":843.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":843.88221875,"end":845.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":845.99159375,"end":847.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.93221875,"end":850.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":851.30721875,"end":852.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":852.72471875,"end":854.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.59346875,"end":858.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.95159375,"end":863.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":863.9465937500001,"end":865.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.6553437500002,"end":868.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.98409375,"end":868.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":868.1484687500001,"end":869.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.9709687500001,"end":881.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.0047187500002,"end":870.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.03846875,"end":870.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.4265937500002,"end":871.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":878.79659375,"end":889.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.86659375,"end":891.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":892.41471875,"end":898.2703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":898.70909375,"end":903.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":903.8728437500001,"end":912.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":913.39034375,"end":916.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":916.8328437500002,"end":918.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":918.30096875,"end":920.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":921.94596875,"end":923.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":921.9797187500001,"end":926.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":927.24471875,"end":931.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":927.44721875,"end":928.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.34971875,"end":940.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":938.70284375,"end":941.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":940.64346875,"end":943.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.1072187500001,"end":946.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":943.14096875,"end":943.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":946.3472187500001,"end":964.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":962.71596875,"end":965.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":964.9097187500001,"end":966.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":966.24284375,"end":970.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":971.0522187500001,"end":973.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":973.39784375,"end":984.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":984.4340937500001,"end":987.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":988.28159375,"end":994.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":994.7447187500002,"end":996.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":996.5165937500001,"end":997.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":997.5290937500001,"end":999.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1001.7647187500002,"end":1005.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1003.38471875,"end":1003.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1005.57846875,"end":1005.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1006.01721875,"end":1006.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1006.03409375,"end":1006.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1007.14784375,"end":1009.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1009.94909375,"end":1015.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1015.5515937500002,"end":1016.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1016.83409375,"end":1032.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1033.2872187500002,"end":1033.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1033.33784375,"end":1039.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1034.92409375,"end":1034.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1034.9747187500002,"end":1035.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1035.00846875,"end":1035.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1035.29534375,"end":1035.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1035.6497187500001,"end":1035.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1035.86909375,"end":1036.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1036.02096875,"end":1036.2234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1039.3453437500002,"end":1042.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1043.2772187500002,"end":1045.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1045.97721875,"end":1056.2203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1051.5797187500002,"end":1052.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1052.9634687500002,"end":1053.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1056.3047187500001,"end":1073.6690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1056.3384687500002,"end":1056.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1056.43971875,"end":1056.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1056.84471875,"end":1057.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1064.11784375,"end":1064.8097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1067.8978437500002,"end":1075.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1074.3440937500002,"end":1077.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1077.3140937500002,"end":1078.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1079.03534375,"end":1082.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1083.13596875,"end":1086.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1087.0340937500002,"end":1091.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1091.7590937500001,"end":1098.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1098.59346875,"end":1100.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1101.25971875,"end":1103.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1104.49971875,"end":1107.7059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1107.9422187500002,"end":1115.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1116.4134687500002,"end":1116.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1116.9365937500002,"end":1116.9534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1116.9703437500002,"end":1117.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1118.2528437500002,"end":1120.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1121.67846875,"end":1124.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1123.2647187500002,"end":1123.2984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1123.2984687500002,"end":1124.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1124.02409375,"end":1124.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1124.44596875,"end":1124.5640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1124.5640937500002,"end":1124.5809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1124.5809687500002,"end":1124.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1125.9478437500002,"end":1125.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1125.9647187500002,"end":1126.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1128.24284375,"end":1129.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1129.39034375,"end":1131.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1131.76971875,"end":1137.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1134.73971875,"end":1137.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1137.7603437500002,"end":1151.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1140.49409375,"end":1142.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1142.73846875,"end":1142.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1143.58221875,"end":1145.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1150.2815937500002,"end":1150.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1150.3153437500002,"end":1151.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1151.5472187500002,"end":1156.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1151.6822187500002,"end":1152.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1152.01971875,"end":1152.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1156.9978437500001,"end":1158.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1158.9722187500001,"end":1160.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1161.04784375,"end":1164.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1164.6084687500002,"end":1165.4859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1165.7390937500002,"end":1168.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1168.62471875,"end":1175.7628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1169.18159375,"end":1169.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1175.9147187500002,"end":1176.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1177.2984687500002,"end":1177.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1177.9734687500002,"end":1178.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1178.59784375,"end":1178.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1178.61471875,"end":1185.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1185.66846875,"end":1186.7147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1187.1028437500001,"end":1187.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1188.58784375,"end":1189.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1189.31346875,"end":1193.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1194.1397187500002,"end":1197.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1199.13471875,"end":1203.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1203.50534375,"end":1207.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1207.9772187500002,"end":1215.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1216.33034375,"end":1218.7603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1218.7603437500002,"end":1218.7772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1219.0809687500002,"end":1220.4478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1220.78534375,"end":1224.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1224.17721875,"end":1225.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1226.40471875,"end":1229.1890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1229.96534375,"end":1233.8128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1233.89721875,"end":1234.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1234.42034375,"end":1237.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1235.70284375,"end":1236.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1236.8840937500001,"end":1236.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1237.55909375,"end":1237.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1237.5928437500002,"end":1237.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1237.6265937500002,"end":1237.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1237.69409375,"end":1237.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1237.7109687500001,"end":1237.7447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1237.7447187500002,"end":1237.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1237.79534375,"end":1237.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1237.82909375,"end":1238.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1238.0315937500002,"end":1238.2003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1238.53784375,"end":1238.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1238.68971875,"end":1239.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1240.09034375,"end":1240.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1240.1240937500002,"end":1240.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1240.90034375,"end":1240.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1241.22096875,"end":1261.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1246.4859687500002,"end":1246.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1261.6903437500002,"end":1264.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1264.79534375,"end":1267.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1268.5753437500002,"end":1269.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1270.9040937500001,"end":1282.4803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1282.7840937500002,"end":1288.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1289.4834687500002,"end":1292.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1292.8922187500002,"end":1295.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1296.16596875,"end":1298.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1296.19971875,"end":1296.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1298.73096875,"end":1299.6590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1300.13159375,"end":1303.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1303.7428437500002,"end":1304.6878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1305.9872187500002,"end":1307.7928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1308.14721875,"end":1308.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1309.1597187500001,"end":1309.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1310.1553437500002,"end":1312.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1312.88909375,"end":1313.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1314.74534375,"end":1315.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1315.43721875,"end":1317.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1318.13721875,"end":1319.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1319.0315937500002,"end":1323.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1319.0484687500002,"end":1319.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1319.08221875,"end":1319.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1319.65596875,"end":1319.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1323.46971875,"end":1328.1778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1329.2578437500001,"end":1330.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1330.75971875,"end":1340.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1340.63159375,"end":1346.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1341.03659375,"end":1341.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1346.6390937500003,"end":1349.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1349.5415937500002,"end":1353.7772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1352.14034375,"end":1353.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1353.7772187500002,"end":1354.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1354.8909687500002,"end":1359.2615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1354.9078437500002,"end":1355.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1358.6709687500002,"end":1358.8734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1358.8734687500003,"end":1358.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1358.9578437500002,"end":1358.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1360.17284375,"end":1360.7972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1361.2528437500002,"end":1361.7759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1362.0459687500002,"end":1364.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1364.8640937500002,"end":1365.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1365.4715937500002,"end":1368.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1368.59346875,"end":1368.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1368.61034375,"end":1372.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1372.7447187500002,"end":1372.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1373.1834687500002,"end":1373.2172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1373.23409375,"end":1379.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1376.3897187500002,"end":1378.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1378.7015937500003,"end":1378.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1379.69721875,"end":1381.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1381.26659375,"end":1381.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1381.51971875,"end":1386.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1381.53659375,"end":1383.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1386.8522187500002,"end":1387.8309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1387.3753437500002,"end":1405.5497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1395.9815937500002,"end":1396.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1405.98846875,"end":1412.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1412.73846875,"end":1415.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1415.69159375,"end":1417.7840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1418.12159375,"end":1420.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1420.7203437500002,"end":1422.1209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1422.4922187500001,"end":1425.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1426.1540937500001,"end":1428.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1429.19159375,"end":1429.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1430.9297187500001,"end":1432.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1432.43159375,"end":1434.9290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1435.0809687500002,"end":1435.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1436.97096875,"end":1436.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1436.9878437500001,"end":1440.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1440.58221875,"end":1440.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1441.5440937500002,"end":1442.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1443.72096875,"end":1444.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1445.4928437500002,"end":1452.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1446.8428437500002,"end":1448.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1448.9690937500002,"end":1449.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1452.42846875,"end":1454.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1455.3984687500001,"end":1472.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1472.79659375,"end":1473.2015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1473.77534375,"end":1474.7034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1476.4247187500002,"end":1477.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1478.2303437500002,"end":1480.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1481.0315937500002,"end":1482.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1482.9722187500001,"end":1485.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1486.58346875,"end":1487.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1487.8828437500001,"end":1489.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1490.11034375,"end":1491.5953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1492.0509687500003,"end":1493.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1494.5822187500003,"end":1494.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1499.6278437500002,"end":1502.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1503.0703437500001,"end":1505.5003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1505.98971875,"end":1508.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1510.0059687500002,"end":1510.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1510.8497187500002,"end":1512.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1512.5709687500002,"end":1513.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1513.71846875,"end":1516.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1517.9034687500002,"end":1521.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1521.46409375,"end":1523.0672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1523.2528437500002,"end":1524.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1524.68721875,"end":1528.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1524.7884687500002,"end":1525.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1528.8384687500002,"end":1530.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1530.72846875,"end":1531.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1531.3697187500002,"end":1532.9728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1532.9728437500003,"end":1535.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1536.2803437500002,"end":1537.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1537.79909375,"end":1548.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1549.7634687500001,"end":1559.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1552.83471875,"end":1552.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1556.49659375,"end":1557.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1557.5090937500001,"end":1558.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1558.9603437500002,"end":1564.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1565.1197187500002,"end":1584.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1567.88721875,"end":1570.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1572.7134687500002,"end":1576.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1579.2272187500002,"end":1579.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1584.03659375,"end":1590.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1591.20846875,"end":1591.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1591.9678437500002,"end":1592.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1592.9634687500002,"end":1594.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1595.59596875,"end":1598.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1599.5615937500002,"end":1604.1347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1602.05909375,"end":1604.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1605.01221875,"end":1610.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1611.34034375,"end":1611.9984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1612.30221875,"end":1614.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1615.2384687500003,"end":1616.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1616.40284375,"end":1617.7528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1618.0565937500003,"end":1620.2672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1618.1240937500002,"end":1618.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1620.2672187500002,"end":1620.6722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1622.9672187500003,"end":1624.7728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1625.1609687500002,"end":1626.4603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1627.20284375,"end":1631.8265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1627.3209687500002,"end":1629.5484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1630.2065937500001,"end":1635.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1634.6109687500002,"end":1639.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1639.72409375,"end":1647.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1646.47409375,"end":1646.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1646.5415937500002,"end":1646.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1647.48659375,"end":1650.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1651.3003437500001,"end":1656.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1655.5865937500002,"end":1658.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1658.3540937500002,"end":1662.0497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1662.1340937500001,"end":1668.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1663.7034687500002,"end":1665.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1667.6353437500002,"end":1668.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1668.58034375,"end":1669.7615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1670.25096875,"end":1673.8790937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1674.6722187500002,"end":1676.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1677.00096875,"end":1682.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1682.9578437500002,"end":1687.6322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1689.2015937500003,"end":1693.8422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1695.1753437500001,"end":1699.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1700.6934687500002,"end":1702.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1702.9209687500002,"end":1732.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1726.0397187500002,"end":1726.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1726.4615937500002,"end":1726.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1726.8159687500001,"end":1726.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1732.55346875,"end":1741.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1735.4559687500002,"end":1736.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1738.45971875,"end":1738.8140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1741.5984687500002,"end":1746.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1741.81784375,"end":1742.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1746.2559687500002,"end":1746.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1746.62721875,"end":1746.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1746.6440937500001,"end":1746.6778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1746.7790937500001,"end":1746.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1746.9647187500002,"end":1747.2347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1747.4878437500001,"end":1747.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1747.5047187500002,"end":1748.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1748.3653437500002,"end":1749.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1749.5972187500001,"end":1749.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1749.6309687500002,"end":1749.7997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1750.12034375,"end":1750.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1751.2172187500003,"end":1751.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1752.2634687500001,"end":1760.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1752.51659375,"end":1754.1534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1754.1534687500002,"end":1756.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1759.4690937500002,"end":1759.9415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1761.0047187500002,"end":1762.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1762.5403437500001,"end":1762.5740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1762.5740937500002,"end":1762.5909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1762.5909687500002,"end":1762.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1762.6247187500003,"end":1762.7090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1762.7090937500002,"end":1762.8440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1762.8440937500002,"end":1762.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1762.9622187500001,"end":1763.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1762.9790937500002,"end":1764.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1764.5484687500002,"end":1765.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1766.0840937500002,"end":1766.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1767.6872187500003,"end":1770.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1771.36596875,"end":1772.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1773.88034375,"end":1775.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1775.73659375,"end":1776.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1777.69409375,"end":1783.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1783.3472187500001,"end":1789.8778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1790.19846875,"end":1798.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1798.5515937500002,"end":1800.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1800.9815937500002,"end":1815.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1816.06784375,"end":1820.9278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1819.0715937500001,"end":1819.5272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1821.29909375,"end":1824.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1822.7165937500001,"end":1823.6109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1843.9622187500001,"end":1844.0297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1844.9747187500002,"end":1845.0253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1851.8597187500002,"end":1854.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1857.5128437500002,"end":1859.9765937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.042,"end":10.664,"text":"好 院長謝謝麻煩請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢好 卓院長等待總質詢又多了兩個多禮拜不過今天我們能夠順利的來針對這個會期的總質詢我們就就事論事並且好好的來討論現在台灣面臨到的狀況上個禮拜五"},{"start":36.089,"end":59.507,"text":"您的這個針對美國關稅政策因應報告作為我們也在台下有全程的聆聽您的一個講法但是我想有一些立場以及我們對外一致的政策方向還是要先跟院長來就教首先在你的報告裡面一開始有提到這是你報告上面的文字喔"},{"start":60.063,"end":85.499,"text":"就說是川普政府他們要追求跟其他國家之間的公平互惠貿易關係他也講到驅使其他國家在貿易之中採取更公平的做法保護美國的經濟利益促進本土的產業復甦那麼說如果說在川普政府他一味的認為是說他要追求所謂更公平的做法那難道現在的做法不公平嗎"},{"start":86.56,"end":111.599,"text":"我想美國政府會認為 過多的貿易赤字對他來講是國家財政的子彈那我們怎麼認為美國政府有美國政府的講法川普有川普的講法但我們怎麼認為這個是上個禮拜我在您報告裡面我聆聽了20分鐘我沒有聽到的我們的做法我們怎麼認為川普說現在世界各國跟美國貿易是不公平的來 下一張"},{"start":112.322,"end":129.469,"text":"這段應該是在描述美國的政府的立場說法所以你的報告把美國的講法寫出來但我要知道是中華民國政府怎麼認為啊裡面有提到我們跟美國任何的談判都是在爭取國家最大的利益也是在維護產業國際但是回歸前提"},{"start":132.642,"end":160.508,"text":"院長我們共同面臨到是美國總統川普他是一個強人他是一個談判高手大家都知道關稅只是第一步可能之後接下來還有匯率可能接下來還有國債這都是美國政府的問題一個一個想要跟世界各國來解決但現在我們要看到的是中華民國政府我們怎麼認為美國政府講的事情是對或錯"},{"start":161.728,"end":184.014,"text":"當川普講是說這是不公平的貿易行為的時候我們認為這是不公平的嗎我想我不宜去公開批評哪一個政府的對錯我只說我們跟美國之間沒有公開批評啊我說我不宜啦我說我們跟美國之間或我跟我們跟世界各國之間所以過去我們跟美國政府所做真的有不公平嗎"},{"start":185.626,"end":201.554,"text":"我們希望追求的雙方互利而且貿易不要失衡的狀況底下但是我方有我方的利益點對方有對方的考量比方說我們在高科技這個產品上面如果給我們更多的優惠的情況底下"},{"start":202.114,"end":230.437,"text":"會有利於我們整個產業的結構跟產業的升級跟發展這個是我方的利益我們跟美國順差是事實是不否認但是我們的順差建立在是因為不公平所以才造成順差嗎這個順差建立在我們在川普總統第一任的時候有大量的台商回來台灣是嘛所以這不是不公平嘛也建立在整個AI的發展起來是嘛這是我們台灣人企業的高科技的強盛嘛所以這不是不公平嘛"},{"start":231.338,"end":250.174,"text":"那為什麼連一句我們對美國講川普總統講說這是不公平他一竿子打翻一傳台灣外公一句話叫打外逃啦他先打外逃說不公平然後再來請各位談判小組來談判如果我們順著他話講的話那我們不就是掉入他談判高手的陷阱嗎"},{"start":250.814,"end":272.839,"text":"我一定放心我們當然不會掉入一個你認為的陷阱或是我們沒有考慮到的問題我們不會掉入到那個問題裡面院長我先請教所以之前美國總統川普也講說台灣偷走半導體產業他要把它給拿回來這句話你認同嗎台灣的半導體領先產業在國內保持所以台灣有偷嗎"},{"start":273.934,"end":293.401,"text":"我們一定在國內保持繼續最領先的這個地位所以台灣沒有偷嘛對全世界來講台灣沒有偷沒有偷我們跟世界充分的合作我們在製造上面的這個發展是大家所肯定的但研發過程或許要互相的學習院長這就本席先提出來在您上禮拜五的報告裡面"},{"start":294.246,"end":308.911,"text":"沒有看到我們針對川普總統一開始所講所謂的不公平所謂的偷半導體偷晶片等相關做出很強硬具體而且捍衛我國主張立場的說法"},{"start":309.611,"end":328.644,"text":"再來對不起也許我有一些看到我們有很多的敘述但是我認為我們的重點在於解決的方法院長我也想要知道解決方法所以現在賴清德總統也說了我們已經有第一階段的談判嘛是不是好不就細節因為我知道這個談判會一而再再而三但是我們預期會有幾階段談判"},{"start":330.206,"end":354.351,"text":"預期會有幾階段這無法預期我們只知道說我們現在4月11日要開始的視訊會議我們的視訊會議如果牽扯到機密你不用回答我們視訊會議現在官員成績到多少官員成績因為我知道說我們的談判小組現在是由副院長來做領導嘛副院長依法過去到現在立院是沒有邀請他上備巡台"},{"start":355.114,"end":381.429,"text":"那所以我想邀請可能沒有辦法跟委員報告從台美經貿請教第一次的視訊會議副院長有主持嗎台美經貿專案小組都是副院長在主持那對外談判對外談判的總負責人就是我們的政委談判代表楊振尼政委這是我們一直對外的這個分工王政委所以當天第一次的這個談判視訊談判王政委主持"},{"start":382.925,"end":399.235,"text":"但是我們基於雙方的默契我想美方也沒有說他們的談判代表是誰我們也沒有在打破這個默契這是一個團隊好 本席想要了解的是因為現在看得出來是川普總統在主導一切的政策"},{"start":399.994,"end":427.304,"text":"那我們來看一下最近亞洲日本跟我們很直接嘛日本即將在18號正式要有談判那過去我們也看到新聞是日本首相跟川普總統直接面對面的談判這可能就直指核心啦我們打蛇打青春 情蛇牽行王啊那談判過程一定是這樣子那我們現在還沒有辦法了解說我們的成績到多少但是我們只有政委是主要的談判負責人"},{"start":428.151,"end":456.826,"text":"他是一個團隊 我的政委是我們的總談判代表團隊嘛 但是我們最高就是政委嘛 是不是這樣他是我們的總談判代表好 總談判代表就是我們的楊政委 是不是但日本現在看起來是他們的首相而且日本的首相在對他們的國會裡面講他講說不會妥協 並且說報復性的關稅選項也沒有被排除當然 他事前先講是說報復性的關稅不符合國家利益但是沒有排除"},{"start":457.968,"end":482.554,"text":"對比我們現在我們自己一直在強調說我們到底籌碼還有多少那我想請教一下院長我們到目前為止我們現在盤點我們手中的籌碼我們的談判進行的成果你覺得會是比日本好還是比日本差如果當年我們不是被排除或是主動退出聯合國我也會努力現在打電話給川普總統院長"},{"start":485.031,"end":501.259,"text":"我們現在在講2025年的關稅你跟我講是1976年1974年的事情石破首相跟川普總統直接對談可不可以面對問題解決問題我們來focus在現在的問題我從開始到現在我一直強調的是說我們怎麼樣能夠增加我們的談判籌碼我們來努力"},{"start":507.702,"end":532.989,"text":"我現在在講的是日本首相他有提到他也跟國內講了他講說報復性的關稅沒有排除但不會是他的優先選項對比我們中華民國一開始就講說不會採取報復性的關稅那是不是我們就少了一個可以談判的工具跟籌碼沒有 但我們還是進到第一輪最優先的談判的地位去啦院長"},{"start":535.495,"end":551.004,"text":"本席就事論性和理性的跟您討論現在看到川普總統有講說甚至有可能有些國家可以有10%豁免的關稅我們有沒有機會爭取到當然這個都是從談判的立即點開始談起的"},{"start":552.497,"end":569.647,"text":"總統說我們從零關稅談起就是一個態度我們不會採取報復這也是一個態度如果不是這樣子的話我們有可能現在就排在後面也許我們排在145去了但是我們沒有我們就站在最優先的地位只要我們備足了我們自己的方案我們的談判代表團"},{"start":571.772,"end":585.45,"text":"跟談判的時間準備出來我們就可以談判了一直講說台美關係最好一直講說台美的夥伴關係最佳結果居然講是說原來我們可以進入到第一階段談判是因為我們先接受零關稅談起"},{"start":586.992,"end":612.201,"text":"我們沒有這樣講 你剛剛講的意思就這樣你講說如果說沒有的話我們沒有宣布說零關稅的話我們就是145名以後嘛所以到底哪一句話是真的我想這是要讓國人知道因為兩千三百五十萬人共同面對共同承擔你說我們要面對事實嘛 總統講出來的話從零關稅談起 我們現在採取報復所以我們事實就是站在最優先的地位說實在話 我們再來討論一下"},{"start":615.882,"end":642.433,"text":"我們的籌碼還有哪一些半導體是我們很重要的籌碼嗎我認為我們籌碼第一個是我們有高科技的國家力量是沒有錯第二個我們應該有的籌碼是國內團結當然所以我到現在為止跟您都講的是我們對外一致中華民國對國內我跟你政黨立場不同但是對國外我們一致對外就是以中華民國為台灣兩千三百五十萬人的利益為優先這一點請您記得來請看一下"},{"start":644.051,"end":671.088,"text":"揮打昨天有宣布說他要斥資攜手台積電攜手鴻海攜手偉創宣布五千億四年的美國投資想請教台積電 鴻海 偉創這一些他是多增加五千億還是說是之前跟台積電一樣就是宣布他在美國投資一千億美元有沒有掌握這個因為昨天晚上"},{"start":672.386,"end":693.176,"text":"NVIDIA這樣的宣布嘛那國內的廠商要到國外去做任何的投資都要經過投審會投審機制 沒錯所以也還沒有經過投審會當然 昨天晚上到現在是沒有經過投審會那輝達已經先宣布了五千億台積電 偉創 鴻海至少輝達裡面就已經講到這三家大型企業也是我們國內非常重要的企業"},{"start":694.076,"end":717.976,"text":"那我們現在也過了 您剛講了從昨天晚上到現在也過了至少12個小時有沒有去了解掌握詢問到底是多增加投資還是跟之前台積電所宣布的1000億或是美國總統川普把他宣布的2000億是重疊的民間企業要對國外去投資是他來申請不是我們去問他他們是一般的民間企業嗎"},{"start":719.605,"end":730.343,"text":"理論上他程序是要如此啊我們的籌碼是我們的籌碼是我們的高科技這是您剛開公民營的第一個籌碼結果我們現在籌碼被回答先喊了"},{"start":731.368,"end":757.48,"text":"如果說是我們談判的過程裡面我們講說我們的台積電、鴻海跟偉創可以去投資會不會更有談判的空間?你也應該知道啊世界各國跟這一次美國關稅在計算的過程當中過去什麼樣的合作都不影響它那個公司的計算那我們過去最怕什麼?過去最怕說台積電去美投資一千億會連動所謂的鴻溪效應"},{"start":758.601,"end":785.629,"text":"就是把上中下游廠商一起帶過去這有它產業的需求跟考量是 所以現在是不是已經看到這樣的一個起步了如果說輝達去 鴻海去 台積電去 偉創去那您一直跟我講說昨天晚上的事情但是從昨天晚上到現在已經12個小時了你難道沒有認為是說應該要了解一下請經濟部 請我們相關的部會去了解一下我知道你的心急啦是 當然急啊"},{"start":786.949,"end":791.714,"text":"不實際 昨天的晚上是我們的晚上我們現在白天是對方的晚上院長"},{"start":792.654,"end":821.214,"text":"我們不要做這種細節我們鴻海台積電偽創在國內沒有研發中心沒有營運總部嗎對 但是在美國的宣布他們必須用程序來跟政府做說明但你不能要求12個小時以內我沒有不合理的要求是因為這是國人大家共同所關心的事情因為我們現在面臨到的是整個世界的挑戰跟變化院長我希望但是我們要穩住我希望"},{"start":822.082,"end":830.221,"text":"本席所提出來的疑問都可以獲得您的解答每個人本席站在這邊代表的是人民"},{"start":831.075,"end":854.714,"text":"本席站在這邊為人民發聲本席站在這邊是希望人民的聲音能夠被行政部門聽到並且獲得解答院長所以今天早上經濟部部長有受訪的時候講到是說假扣動假報吃苦當吃補台灣人不都是這樣嗎您覺得這算不算失言還是預告我們的苦日子要來了"},{"start":855.609,"end":876.514,"text":"沒有我覺得這個是當我們面對一個挑戰的時候你如果是有健康的態度面對它而不是懷憂喪志而必須絕對沒有懷憂喪志但我們要超前部署我們要正向 積極 陽光 專業這才是重點啊像4月3號以前我們就把所有關稅可能的推估算出來這就是超前部署"},{"start":877.054,"end":890.935,"text":"但是一出來之後我們不會馬上第一時間就有看你的報告但現在很遺憾的是當本席從質詢到現在15分鐘我都還沒有獲得你正式正面的一個回答再來 我想請教 院長"},{"start":892.652,"end":920.414,"text":"現在有委員不管藍營立委綠營立委甚至有產業界也都有建議我們現在談判小組當然政委他可能有他的專業但是以國際形勢瞬息萬變來講以及我們真的希望是能夠直指核心跟川普總統來去做一個溝通跟談判有人建議是說是不是能夠敦請我們前總統蔡英文女士來擔任我們的談判小組召集人"},{"start":921.994,"end":947.406,"text":"您的聲音我們都聽見了各方的聲音我們都聽見了但是基於現在您覺得合不合適我們跟美國的這種關係第一 蔡英文總統 陳總統她的英文非常流利絕對沒有問題第二 她應該算是我們中華民國史上元首以前先不講 民選元首直接跟美國總統通過電話的人蔡前總統的語文 她的談判能力她的國際視野以及對國內政務的賢熟度"},{"start":950.823,"end":969.883,"text":"絕對沒有問題但是現在國家的外交途徑我們要跟國外任何一個國家進行交涉我們都必須就人選互相有默契所以是美國不接受蔡英文前總統我們沒有這樣說那你剛又講說跟國家有默契那我們現在不就是跟美國談判嗎"},{"start":971.044,"end":998.891,"text":"我們現在已經啟動了談判了是那我們現在在講是說如果說有更有代表性甚至更能夠直接溝通會不會更能夠對於我們中華民國為我們台灣取得一個優秀的位置那現在是卓院長不願意去去拜託蔡英文前總統還是賴總統不願意拜託蔡英文前總統我想蔡英文前總統會非常了解今天委員對他的肯定"},{"start":1001.786,"end":1021.158,"text":"你非常肯定蔡前總統 全國人民都知道了 謝謝你沒有問題 我說實在話 面對問題我們解決問題我確實 蔡英文前總統她的英文能力我剛講了 以及她跟川普總統通過電話這如果能夠為我們中華民國爭取到更有利的位置 何樂而不為"},{"start":1021.998,"end":1041.872,"text":"當然啊這就是我們現在要凝聚以及我們要展現的籌碼但我覺得很遺憾的是很多東西是我們有籌碼可是我們民進黨政府好像不願意用來籌碼不是擺在桌上賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上我們不是賭徒我們不是在做一場世界性的大賭博"},{"start":1043.322,"end":1053.613,"text":"我們在做世界性的大補賭我們不是賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上我實在沒有辦法聽得懂你的這樣的一個講法因為被本席來講這絕對不是一場賭博被本席來講台灣的產業發展我們的中小企業我們的農業我們的相關產業絕對不是賭博"},{"start":1064.144,"end":1086.346,"text":"如果你以賭博的心態來看待的話我覺得非常的遺憾而且我覺得會非常的危險我們的籌碼是放在我們應該放的地方不是擺在這裡討論的我再請教880億現在有講是說要延後一個禮拜提出來那我們也看到之前其實特別預算編列有"},{"start":1087.096,"end":1114.366,"text":"那時候是超徵稅收所以說我們有編列了一個特別預算條例那時候還是用易後強化經濟跟社會韌性以及全民共享經濟成果特別條例這時候你應該了解嘛到最後是3800億的一個規模分三個部分有普發現金有補助台電以及有所謂的這個易後的重建跟補貼等等那我們現在請教一下我們現在要提出來的這880億"},{"start":1116.465,"end":1126.567,"text":"的特別預算預計也是採取用特別條例的方式對吧必須要有特別條例是那什麼時候會提出來呢什麼時候會提出來"},{"start":1128.294,"end":1155.964,"text":"我們一開始提出了880億的支持方案結果有人說我們大傻逼有人說2000億我們又跟產業界進行了各種不同的方式的溝通產業界又給了我們一些意見所以我們重新再整合這樣的一個基礎跟規模把產業界的意見加進來我們現在努力在下個禮拜盡快能夠通過一個特別條例出行政院"},{"start":1157.091,"end":1164.673,"text":"下個禮拜會通過特別條例那規模會是比除了880億以外還會不會增加其他的部分其他的"},{"start":1166.982,"end":1193.149,"text":"盤點這幾天跟產業界的這個座談所以預計會有多大的規模目前我還沒有辦法說一個我們就是以八百八十億當作基礎當作這個架構我再看一下上次的一個特別條例到最後裡面是有包含這也是行政院之後提出來的有包含補發現金六千塊所以有一千一百多億有包含補貼是一千三百七十億以及補助台電一千億"},{"start":1194.195,"end":1214.611,"text":"所以我們在這次的這個特別條例裡面會有其他的方向嗎?有符合現在這個趨勢所需要的我們會考量產業界的需求跟國人的需求所以本期可以就院長剛剛講這一段話來推估有可能推出的特別條例的原額額度比880億還要高"},{"start":1216.485,"end":1239.265,"text":"目前有這個可能但是還沒有做任何的定案好那再來喔15個縣市長上個禮拜也開了一次會並且有四大建言我看到院長接受這個媒體詢問的時候講了一句話說對的事情大家一起談我其實是認同的還有一句話沒有講這不對的事情"},{"start":1240.151,"end":1266.389,"text":"不要拿來談不對的事情不要拿來談那對的事情什麼是對的事情什麼是不對的事情也不是您認定也不是大家認定而是我們一起共同集思廣益想方法我想院長不應該那麼的一個威權的態度認為是說在野或者是縣市長所提出來的對與不對我想我們不要用這樣子一個判斷我們跟產業座談也是要得到更多這樣的意見所以15位縣市長代表性算足了吧"},{"start":1270.95,"end":1299.531,"text":"地方父母官2022年的民意選出來並且他們第一線的去溝通了解產業的需求即便15個縣市長跟院長可能是不同黨派但畢竟他也服務超過三分之二台灣的人口數那15個縣市長所提出來的這個意見我覺得院長真的應該要好好的來談一談我們都從不了解他們提出的意見你說你不了解"},{"start":1300.131,"end":1327.739,"text":"我們都充分了解那其中有提到既然要談裡面包括說普發現金的建議包括說召開國事會議您認為呢我記得他提了七項還幾項意見吧四大項其中有一項就是說國事因為你認為是說對的事情大家一起談嘛那我剛剛聽你的這個詢答裡面也不認為是說所有提出來這四大項"},{"start":1329.298,"end":1358.277,"text":"都不能談嘛那既然要談大家應該要坐下來談啊那國事會議現在建議召開國事會議趕快縣市長不只藍營縣市長綠營縣市長都一起來談我剛剛說說是盧市長中部八個縣市提出的七項建議侯市長新北市他也提出了四項建議那張善政市長桃園他也提出好像有四項建議然後上禮拜四十五個縣市長也提出了建議一二十項的建議我們都把它充分了解放在一起"},{"start":1360.218,"end":1378.825,"text":"要不要談?談哪一件?對的事情大家一起談啊這是你講的啊我們會找當中對的事情好好的來談所以現在的講師說要召開國事會議您的態度是什麼?國事會議應該不是我一個人決定開不開的問題這一定要社會的共識國事會議是要總統啦但重點在於說您要不要建議總統是不是應該大家來溝通"},{"start":1387.236,"end":1408.026,"text":"我們已經過去到現在已經討論有很多重大方向跟決策我也肯定你的講法啊對的事情大家一起談但重點是現在談要不要有一個方向要不要一個會議要不要一個做法您可以在討論相關事件的時候也找在野黨來溝通三黨團也都到行政院溝通嘛"},{"start":1408.706,"end":1435.231,"text":"那現在15個縣市長站出來我們是不是應該也要有正向回應15個縣市長的訴求我們都相信總統也看到了這個剛剛您說的這幾項的建議那至於該怎麼做我們現在這個禮拜你也看到最重要的是準備跟美方談判的所有的過程這個不是國事會議可以取代的所以我們先把眼前該做的事情把它做好院長"},{"start":1438.933,"end":1451.568,"text":"國政多如牛毛但絕對沒有哪一個優先哪一個順序你剛剛就有講到你的特別條例下個禮拜要提出來"},{"start":1452.452,"end":1480.148,"text":"那是不是就已經在一起來進行美國的談判很重要我們國內的特別條例很重要相關的治安相關的國內的發展也很重要所以這是每一個委員站在這邊因應不同面向因為每一個委員有每一個選區不同的想法不同的考量都要提供給您而不是一竿子的否定院長我想請教到目前在一個月左右"},{"start":1481.092,"end":1508.34,"text":"就是520也就是內閣團隊上任一週年到目前為止你有沒有看到今天最新的民調不管是賴總統或是您自己我們來看一下幾張支持度上任以來最低次低啦上任以來次低但是看起來它也接近了這個交叉點"},{"start":1510.063,"end":1522.531,"text":"那520即將到來你認為隔園也好或是我們整個團隊有沒有需要調整的必要隔園在將近11個月的過程裡面都非常的認真但面對所有的問題我當然"},{"start":1524.967,"end":1548.516,"text":"會不會調整我們不會沒有可能把所有的事情做得圓滿當然當中有值得檢討的地方值得檢討的地方那會不會調整因為一年時間到了國人會期待看到我們的週年成績單我不知道說在520的時候你可以拿出什麼樣週年成績單來說服國人讓國人的滿意度提升但另外一個部分是我們的內閣團隊有沒有調整的計畫方向"},{"start":1549.775,"end":1564.156,"text":"委員你應該知道你在這樣問不會得到我的答案我要說會對閣員我如果說會 是不是會打擊閣員的實際院長我必須很鄭重的要求你我鄭重的敬告"},{"start":1565.217,"end":1589.465,"text":"本席站在這邊問的都是人民所關心的議題如果說你用那麼輕描的態度說這樣問不會有答案那這樣子是質詢嗎這樣是質詢的精神嗎我沒有講特定人我沒有指名道姓誰我現在只是問你說有沒有調整的方向連這樣子你都這樣子都可以傲慢的不回答我剛剛跟你說了大家都很努力但是不是每件事情都做得很好我們必須檢討來"},{"start":1591.26,"end":1620.465,"text":"那人事的部分有一個東西你總是可以回答了NCC的委員什麼時候要提出來這個我自己要檢討我盡快把它提出來確實喔來 院長去年11月28的時候我們行政院就講了卓龍泰緊鑼密鼓的爭取中到現在四個半月過去了名單沒有出來我們嘗試很多但是遇到很多的困難說真的為什麼"},{"start":1623.819,"end":1638.941,"text":"徵詢是大家不願意還是你徵詢的人還是不夠專業怕名單提出來之後被大家覺得說否定我們徵詢的對象一定是符合一定的專業程度好 那你有跟誰討論我想在場有NCC代理主委啊"},{"start":1640.391,"end":1655.169,"text":"來有跟代理主委溝通嗎說我現在名單還沒有完成那NCC的業務會不會停擺有沒有關心過我一直要把這個人事給他補上來但是很多談的他當然有基本的專業的程度但是"},{"start":1655.609,"end":1673.18,"text":"所以我們中華民國兩千三百五十萬人沒有符合院長標準要求的四位人選為什麼四個半月提不出來來我們看一下因為代理主委說我不清楚啊行政院沒有找他討論啊"},{"start":1674.764,"end":1699.351,"text":"所以院長你自己也不找現在代理主委討論然後就讓NCC的委員名單一直提不出來你如果說沒有提出來立法院連審都沒有辦法審你了解吧我了解好再來因為人數不足所以現在空轉37家頻道面臨了換照問題怎麼辦誰要負起責任我還在努力盡快把它找一個人什麼時候可以提出來"},{"start":1701.051,"end":1715.436,"text":"醜媳婦總要見公婆那本席期待的其實你謹慎是好事啊如果說你三個月的時間謹慎提出專業合乎大眾需求標準的名單我想立法院沒有否決的理由"},{"start":1715.996,"end":1734.684,"text":"但最怕的就是你提出來的名單是不夠專業或是讓大家覺得就像過去一樣是因人設事 因黨設事那當然我們就有審查的空間可是我們現在要講的是四個半月過去了那請教院長 現在總質詢什麼時候可以提出來非常抱歉 我們找的人一定符合相當的專業水準"},{"start":1735.464,"end":1764.202,"text":"所以要繼續空轉他未來的工作他相當有過濾那會讓NCC繼續空轉嗎沒有我們盡量努力那盡量努力什麼時候提出來如果我可以說個時間我希望這個月份我能夠提出來名單這個月這個月所以只剩兩個禮拜會不會跳票不會吧院長你在總質詢的承諾不要跳票兩個月四月底以前我們看到您提出來的名單可以嗎其實我已經在準備差不多好了但是這個最後差一點點的功夫"},{"start":1764.622,"end":1772.692,"text":"最後 院長我們還是看一下現在最近的共諜案共諜案的部分 我想"},{"start":1773.925,"end":1797.25,"text":"中華民國是我的國家台灣是我的家園任何人想要消滅中華民國我都反對共產黨要消滅中華民國我反共台獨想要消滅中華民國我反台獨因為這就是我們的國家我們大家一起安身立命但現在我們看到民進黨政府從總統府從黨部從外交部都有共諜的發聲"},{"start":1798.89,"end":1823.538,"text":"這樣的狀況很多人在講啊是不是還有更大咖我們現在有沒有針對這部分因為我覺得這非常的重要國安議題但是也是我們現在各部會大家共同要面對的有沒有專案小組或說來了解現在到底還有多少有可能潛在的共諜就因為我們之前已經發現了這樣的威脅所以總統才在第二次國安會議當中會不會還有更大咖"},{"start":1851.935,"end":1854.159,"text":"好 謝謝洪孟凱委員 謝謝主委長備詢接下來我們請登記第50號"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":348,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（10時47分）謝謝院長。麻煩請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：卓院長，等待總質詢又多了兩個多禮拜，不過今天我們能夠順利地針對這個會期的總質詢，我們就事論事並且好好來討論現在臺灣面臨到的狀況。","上個禮拜五，您針對美國關稅政策因應作為報告，我們也有在臺下全程聆聽您的講法，但是有一些立場以及我們對外一致的政策方向，還是要先跟院長就教。首先，你的報告一開始有提到，這是你報告上面的文字，就是川普政府要追求跟其他國家之間的公平互惠貿易關係，驅使其他國家在貿易之中採取更公平的作法，保護美國的經濟利益、促進本土的產業復甦。如果川普政府一味的認為要追求所謂更公平的作法，難道現在的作法不公平嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想美國政府會認為過多的貿易赤字對他來講是國家財政的負擔。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們怎麼認為？美國政府有美國政府的講法、川普有川普的講法，但我們怎麼認為？這是上個禮拜我聆聽您的報告20分鐘沒有聽到的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的作法？"],["洪委員孟楷：我們怎麼認為？川普說現在世界各國跟美國貿易是不公平的。"],["卓院長榮泰：這一段應該是在描述美國政府立場的說法。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯，所以你的報告把美國的講法寫出來，但我要知道中華民國政府怎麼認為啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：我裡面有提到我們跟美國任何的談判都是在爭取國家最大的利益，也是在維護產業的國際競爭力。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但是回歸前提。院長，我們共同面臨到美國總統川普，他是一個強人、他是一個談判高手，大家都知道，關稅只是第一步，可能之後接下來還有匯率、可能接下來還有國債，這都是美國政府的問題，一個一個想要跟世界各國來解決。但現在我們要看到的，是中華民國政府認為美國政府講的事情是對或錯，當川普講說這是不公平的貿易行為，我們認為這是不公平的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想我不宜公開去批評哪一個政府的對錯……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有公開批評啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我只是說我們跟美國之間……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，沒有公開批評啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：我說我不宜，我們跟美國之間，或跟世界各國之間……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以過去我們對美國政府所做真的有不公平嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望追求的是雙方互利，而且貿易不要失衡的狀況，但是我方有我方的利益點，對方有對方的考量，比方說，在高科技產品上面，如果給予我們更多優惠的情況，會有利於我們整個產業的結構及產業的升級跟發展，這個是我方的利益。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我們跟美國順差是事實。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：不否認，但是我們的順差是因為建立在不公平，所以才造成順差嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個順差建立在川普總統第一任的時候，有大量臺商回來臺灣……"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛，所以這不是不公平嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：也建立在整個AI發展起來，美國……"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛，這是我們臺灣企業高科技的強盛，所以這不是不公平嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，沒有錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：那為什麼美國川普總統講這是不公平，他一竿子打翻一船人，臺灣台語有一句話叫「踏話頭」，他先把話說在前，說不公平，再請各位談判小組來談判，如果我們順著他的話講，我們不就是掉入他談判高手的陷阱嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，您放心……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我才會……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然不會掉入你認為的陷阱，或者我們沒有考慮到的問題，我們不會掉落到那個問題裡面。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我先請教，之前美國總統川普也講說「臺灣偷走半導體產業，他要把它給拿回來」，這句話你認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣的半導體領先產業在國內保持……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以臺灣有偷嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定在國內繼續保持最領先的地位……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以臺灣沒有偷嘛！對全世界來講臺灣沒有偷。"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣沒有偷、沒有偷，我們跟世界充分的合作，我們在製造上面的發展是大家所肯定的，在研發過程或許要互相的學習。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，這就是本席先前提出來的，在您上禮拜五的報告裡面，沒有看到我們針對川普總統一開始所講，所謂的不公平、所謂的偷半導體、偷晶片等相關事項，做出很強硬、具體，而且捍衛我國主張立場的說法，再來……"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，也許委員去看到我們很多的敘述，但是我認為，我們的重點在於解決的方法。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我也想要知道解決的方法，現在賴清德總統也說，我們已經有第一階段的談判，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，不就細節，因為我知道這個談判會一而再、再而三，但是我們預期會有幾階段？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個無法預期，我們只知道我們現在4月11號開始的視訊會議，我們已經……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們的視訊會議，如果牽扯到機密，你不用回答，但我們視訊會議現在官員層級到哪裡？因為我知道，我們的談判小組現在是由副院長來做領導，但副院長依法從過去到現在立院是沒有邀請他上備詢臺。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我想邀請可能也沒有辦法，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，從臺美經貿……"],["洪委員孟楷：請教第一次的視訊會議是副院長主持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：台美經貿專案小組都是副院長在主持。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：對外談判的總負責人就是我們的政委，談判代表楊珍妮政委，這是我們一直對外的分工。"],["洪委員孟楷：王政委？"],["卓院長榮泰：楊珍妮政委。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以當天第一次的視訊談判是王政委主持？"],["卓院長榮泰：楊珍妮政委……"],["洪委員孟楷：楊政委，抱歉。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是基於雙方的默契，美方也沒有說他們的談判代表是誰，我們也沒有在這個打破這個默契，這是一個團隊。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席想要瞭解的是，因為現在看得出來，是川普總統在主導一切的政策，我們來看一下最近亞洲，日本跟我們很直接，日本即將在18號要有正式談判，過去我們也看到新聞，日本是首相跟川普總統直接面對面的談判，這可能就直指核心，我們說「打蛇打七寸，擒賊先擒王」，談判過程一定是這樣子，我們現在還沒有辦法瞭解我們的層級到多少，但是我們只有政委是主要的談判負責人。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個團隊，政委是我們的總談判代表。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是我們最高就是政委，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：他是我們的總談判代表。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，總談判代表就是我們的楊政委，是不是？但日本現在看起來是他們的首相，而且日本的首相在他們的國會裡面，他講說不會妥協，報復性的關稅選項也沒有被排除，當然，他之前講報復性的關稅不符合國家利益，但是沒有排除。對比現在，我們一直在強調我們到底籌碼還有多少，那我想請教一下院長，到目前為止，現在盤點我們手中的籌碼，我們談判進行的成果，你覺得比日本好，還是比日本差？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果當年我們不是被排除或是主動退出聯合國，我也會努力現在打電話給川普總統。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我們現在在講2025年的關稅，你跟我講是1971年的事情……"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊，您是說石破茂首相可以跟川普總統直接對談，我們礙於……"],["洪委員孟楷：可不可以面對問題，解決問題？我們focus在現在的問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：您剛剛的意思是說日本首相可以做……"],["洪委員孟楷：從開始到現在，我一直強調的是說，我們怎麼樣能夠增加我們的談判籌碼……"],["卓院長榮泰：您剛剛的意思我聽起來是認為……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們來努力，我現在在講的是日本首相有提到，也跟國內講報復性的關稅沒有排除，但不會是他的優先選項，對比我們中華民國一開始就講不會採取報復性的關稅，那是不是我們就少了一個可以談判的工具跟籌碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：並沒有，我們還是進到第一輪最優先的談判地位。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，本席就事論事，也很理性的跟您討論，現在看到川普總統講，甚至有可能有些國家可以有10%豁免的關稅，我們有沒有機會爭取到？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然這個都是從談判的立基點開始談起，總統說我們從零關稅談起，就是一個態度，我們不會採取報復，這也是一種態度，如果不是這樣的話，我們有可能現在就排在後面，也許我們排在第145位去了，但是我們沒有，我們站在最優先的地位，只要我們備足了我們自己的方案，我們的談判代表團及談判的時間準備出來，我們就可以談判了。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，一直講臺美關係最好、臺美的夥伴關係最佳，結果居然講我們可以進入到第一階段談判是因為我們先接受零關稅談起。"],["卓院長榮泰：我並沒有這樣講，這是一個談判的態度。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛講的意思就是這樣，你剛剛講我們如果沒有宣布零關稅的話，我們就是145名以後嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們如果說……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到底哪一句話是真的？我想要讓國人知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：都是真的，這是總統講出來的話。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為2,350萬人共同面對、共同承擔……"],["卓院長榮泰：你說我們要面對事實嘛，總統講從零關稅談起，我們不會採取報復，所以事實就是站在最優先的地位。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我們再來討論一下，那我們的籌碼還有哪一些？半導體是我們很重要的籌碼，台積電……"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為我們的籌碼第一個是我們有高科技的國家力量……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有錯。"],["卓院長榮泰：第二個我們應該有的籌碼是國內團結。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，所以我到現在為止跟您都講我們對外一致中華民國，對國內我跟你政黨立場不同，但是對國外我們一致對外，就是以中華民國、以臺灣2,350萬人的利益為優先，這一點請您記得。","請看一下，輝達昨天有宣布說要攜手台積電、鴻海、緯創斥資5,000億4年的美國投資，想請教台積電、鴻海、緯創這一些公司是多增加5,000億，還是跟之前台積電一樣，就是宣布它在美國投資的1,000億美元，有沒有掌握？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為昨天晚上NVIDIA（輝達）宣布，國內的廠商要到國外去做任何投資都要經過……"],["洪委員孟楷：投審會。"],["卓院長榮泰：投審機制。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯。目前也還沒有經過投審會？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，昨天晚上到現在是沒有經過投審會。"],["洪委員孟楷：輝達已經先宣布了5,000億，至少輝達裡面就已經講到這三家（台積電、緯創、鴻海）大型企業，也是我們國內非常重要的企業，從昨天晚上到現在也過了至少12個小時，有沒有去了解、掌握、詢問到底是多增加投資，還是跟之前台積電所宣布的1,000億或是美國總統川普幫他宣布的2,000億是重疊的投資嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：民間企業要對國外去做投資，是他來申請，不是我們去問他。"],["洪委員孟楷：他們是一般的民間企業嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：理論上，程序是要如此。"],["洪委員孟楷：您剛剛提到我們的籌碼是高科技，這是您剛剛開宗明義的第一個籌碼，結果我們現在籌碼被輝達先喊了，如果是我們談判的過程裡面，我們的台積電、鴻海跟緯創可以去投資，會不會更有談判的空間？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你也應該知道，世界各國跟這一次美國在關稅計算過程當中……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，所以您還沒有掌握？"],["卓院長榮泰：過去什麼樣的合作，都不影響他這個公式的計算。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席也提到我們過去最怕什麼？過去最怕台積電去美投資1,000億，會連動所謂的虹吸效應，就是把上、中、下游廠商一起帶過去。"],["卓院長榮泰：這有它產業的需求跟考量。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以現在是不是已經看到這樣一個起步了？如果說輝達去、鴻海去、台積電去、緯創去，那您一直跟我講昨天晚上的事情，但是從昨天晚上到現在已經12個小時了。"],["卓院長榮泰：昨天晚上是我們晚上……"],["洪委員孟楷：你難道不認為應該要了解一下？請經濟部、相關的部會去了解一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我知道你心急啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，當然急啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：但這種要求不實際，昨天晚上是我們的晚上，我們現在白天是對方的晚上。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：不要做這種……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們鴻海、台積電、緯創在國內沒有研發中心、沒有營運總部嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，但是在美國的宣布，他們必須有程序來跟政府做說明，那你不能要求12個小時以內。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我沒有不合理的要求，是因為這是國人大家共同所關心的事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：太心急了啦！不需要這個樣子，一切都要穩穩的來。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為我們現在面臨到的是整個世界的挑戰跟變化。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們要穩住。"],["洪委員孟楷：我希望本席所提出來的疑問都可以獲得您的解答……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是每件事情出來……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席站在這邊代表的是人民……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我希望大家穩住。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席站在這邊為人民發聲，本席站在這邊是希望人民的聲音能夠被行政部門聽到，並且獲得解答。院長，所以今天早上經濟部部長受訪的時候講到「吃苦當吃補」，臺灣人不都是這樣嗎？你覺得這算不算失言，還是預告我們的苦日子要來了？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我覺得這是當我們面對一個挑戰的時候，你如何用健康的態度面對它，而不是懷憂喪志，必須……"],["洪委員孟楷：絕對沒有懷憂喪志，但我們要超前部署，我們要正向、積極、陽光、專業，這才是重點！"],["卓院長榮泰：4月3號以前我們就把所有關稅可能的推估算出來，這就是超前部署，但是一出來之後，我們不會馬上第一時間……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我有看你的報告，但現在很遺憾的是，本席質詢到現在15分鐘都還沒有獲得你正式正面的回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：哪一點？"],["洪委員孟楷：再來，我想請教院長，現在有委員，不管藍營立委、綠營立委，甚至有產業界，也都有建議，現在的談判小組，當然政委可能有他的專業，但是以國際形勢瞬息萬變來講，以及我們真的希望是能夠直指核心的跟川普總統去做一個溝通跟談判，有人建議是不是能夠敦請前總統蔡英文女士來擔任我們的談判小組召集人？"],["卓院長榮泰：你的聲音我們聽見了，各方的聲音我們都聽見了，但是基於現在我們跟美國……"],["洪委員孟楷：您覺得合不合適？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們跟美國的這種關係，我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：第一、蔡英文前總統的英文非常流利。"],["卓院長榮泰：那絕對沒有問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：第二、他應該算是我們中華民國史上，以前先不講，民選元首直接跟美國總統通過電話的人。"],["卓院長榮泰：蔡前總統的語文、談判能力、國際視野及對國內政務的嫻熟度，絕對沒有問題，但是現在國家的外交途徑，我們要跟國外任何一個國家進行交涉，都必須就人選互相有默契，那這一點，我想我們必須要慎重。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以是美國不接受蔡英文前總統？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有這樣說。"],["洪委員孟楷：那你剛剛又講要跟國家有默契，那我們現在不就是跟美國談判嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在已經啟動了談判。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那我們現在在講如果有更有代表性甚至更能夠直接溝通的人選，會不會更能夠為我們中華民國臺灣取得一個優秀的位置？現在是卓院長不願意去拜託蔡英文前總統，還是賴總統不願意拜託蔡英文前總統？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想蔡前總統會非常了解今天委員對他的肯定，你非常肯定蔡前總統。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：全國人民都知道了，謝謝你。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有問題，我說實在話，面對問題、解決問題，確實蔡英文前總統的英文能力，我剛剛講了，以及他跟川普總統通過電話，這如果能夠為我們中華民國爭取到更有利的位置，何樂而不為？當然這就是我們現在要凝聚及要展現的籌碼，但我覺得很遺憾的是很多東西是我們有籌碼，可是我們民進黨政府好像不願意用。"],["卓院長榮泰：籌碼不是擺在桌上，賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上，我們不是賭徒，我們不是在做一場世界性的大賭博。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們在做世界性的大賭博？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不是。賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我實在沒有辦法聽得懂你這樣的一個講法……"],["卓院長榮泰：賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為對本席來講，這絕對不是一場賭博。"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不是。"],["洪委員孟楷：對本席來講，臺灣的產業發展，我們的中小企業、我們的農業、我們的相關產業絕對不是賭博。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不是。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果你以賭博的心態來看待的話，我覺得非常遺憾，而且我覺得非常危險。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我跟你說，賭徒才會把籌碼擺在桌上。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但這是你講的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的籌碼是放在我們應該放的地方，不是擺在這裡討論的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我再請教，現在有講880億是要延後1個禮拜提出來。我們也看到之前的特別預算編列，那時候是超徵稅收，所以我們有編列了一個特別預算條例，那時候還是用「疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別條例」，你應該了解嘛！到最後是3,800億的規模，分三個部分，有普發現金、有補助台電，以及有所謂疫後的重建跟補貼等等。","那我們現在請教一下，我們現在要提出來這880億的特別預算，預計也是採取用特別條例的方式，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：必須要有特別條例，再來編特別預算。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那什麼時候會提出來呢？什麼時候會提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一開始提出了880億的一個支持方案，結果有人說我們大撒幣，說……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係，我們現在講，什麼時候提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：有人說2,000億，我們又跟產業界進行了各種不同方式的溝通。"],["洪委員孟楷：我有看到你的……"],["卓院長榮泰：產業界又給了我們一些意見，我們在重新審核……"],["洪委員孟楷：但重點是什麼時候會提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：依這樣的一個基礎跟規模，把產業界的意見加進來。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候能夠提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在努力在下個禮拜儘快能夠通過一個特別條例出行政院。"],["洪委員孟楷：下個禮拜會通過特別條例，規模除了880億以外，還會不會增加其他的部分，其他的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們正在盤點這幾天跟產業界的座談……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以預計會有多大的規模？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我還沒有辦法說一個……我們就是以880億當作基礎、當作這個架構。"],["洪委員孟楷：我再看一下，上次的特別條例到最後裡面是有包含普發現金6,000塊，這也是行政院之後提出來的，所以有一千一百多億，有包含補貼1,370億，以及補助台電1,000億。所以我們在這次的這個特別條例裡面會有其他的方向嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有符合現在這個趨勢所需要的，我們會考量產業界的需求跟國人的需求，把它放進去。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席可以就院長剛剛講的這一段話來推估，有可能推出的特別條例的額度比880億還要高？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前有這個可能，但是還沒有做任何的定案。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，再來，15個縣市長上個禮拜也開了一次會，並且有四大建言。我看到院長接受媒體詢問的時候講了一句話：對的事情大家一起談。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：我其實是認同的，因為現在是不分……"],["卓院長榮泰：還有一句話沒有講，不對的事情不要拿來談。"],["洪委員孟楷：不對的事情不要拿來談，什麼是對的事情、什麼是不對的事情，也不是您認定……"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊……"],["洪委員孟楷：也不是大家認定，而是我們共同集思廣益想方法。我想院長不應該用那麼一個威權的態度，認為在野或者縣市長所提出來的是對與不對，我們不要用這樣子的一個判斷。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們跟產業座談，也是要得到更多這樣的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：15位縣市長，代表性算足了吧？2022年的民意選出來的地方父母官，並且他們第一線去溝通、了解產業的需求，即便15個縣市長跟院長可能是不同黨派，但畢竟他們也服務超過臺灣三分之二的人口數。15個縣市長所提出來的意見，我覺得院長真的應該要好好地來談一談。其中……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都充分了解他們提出的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：你說你不了解？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都充分了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：充分了解，好。其中有提到，既然要談，裡面包括普發現金的建議，包括召開國是會議，您認為呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我記得他好像提了七項還是幾項意見嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：四大項。"],["卓院長榮泰：四大項……"],["洪委員孟楷：其中有一項就是說國是……因為你認為，對的事情大家一起談，那我剛剛聽你的詢答裡面，也不認為是說所有提出來的這四大項都不能談。既然要談，大家應該要坐下來談，現在建議召開國是會議，趕快就縣市長，不只藍營縣市長，綠營縣市長都一起來談。"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說錯了，是盧市長、中部8個縣市提出了七項建議；侯市長、新北市，他也提出了四項建議；張善政市長、桃園好像也提出了四項建議……"],["洪委員孟楷：然後上禮拜四15個縣市長也提出了建議。"],["卓院長榮泰：針對這一、二十項的建議，我們都把它充分瞭解、放在一起，然後……"],["洪委員孟楷：要不要談？"],["卓院長榮泰：談哪一件？"],["洪委員孟楷：對的事情大家一起談啊！這是你講的啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們會找當中對的事情好好地來談。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在講的是要召開國是會議，您的態度是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：國是會議應該不是我一個人決定開不開的問題，這一定要有社會的共識。"],["洪委員孟楷：國是會議是要總統啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！社會的共識也要……"],["洪委員孟楷：但重點是您要不要建議總統，是不是應該大家來溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信總統……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們從過去到現在，已經討論了很多重大方向跟決策，我也肯定你的講法，對的事情大家一起談，但重點是現在談要不要有一個方向、要不要有一個會議、要不要有一個做法？您可以在討論相關事件的時候，也找在野黨來溝通，三個黨團也都到行政院溝通嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在15個縣市長站出來，你們是不是也應該正向回應這15個縣市長的訴求？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們相信總統也看到了剛剛您說的這幾項建議，至於該怎麼做，這個禮拜您也看到了，我們現在最重要的是準備跟美方談判的所有過程，這個不是國是會議可以取代的，所以我們先把眼前該做的事情做好。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，國政多如牛毛，但絕對沒有哪一個優先、哪一個……"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！我們現在優先就是跟美方談判啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛就有講到，你的特別條例下個禮拜要提出來，那是不是就一起來進行？美國的談判很重要，我們國內的特別條例也很重要，相關的治安、相關的國內發展也很重要，所以這是每個委員站在這邊因應不同的面向，因為每個委員有每個選區不同的想法、不同的考量，都要提供給您，而不是一竿子地否定！","院長，我想請教，再一個月左右就是520，也就是內閣團隊上任1週年，到目前為止，你有沒有看到今天最新的民調？不管是賴總統或是您自己？我們來看一下這份資料：支持度創上任以來次低紀錄，但是看起來它也接近了這個交叉點！520即將到來，請問您認為閣員也好，或者說整個團隊，有沒有需要調整的必要？"],["卓院長榮泰：閣員在將近11個月的過程裡面都非常認真，但面對所有的問題，我當然會說不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有可能把所有的事情都做得圓滿，當然當中有值得檢討的地方。"],["洪委員孟楷：有值得檢討的地方，那會不會調整？因為一年的時間到了，國人會期待看到我們的週年成績單。我不知道在520的時候，你可以拿出什麼樣的週年成績單來說服國人，讓國人的滿意度提升，但另外一個部分是，我們的內閣團隊有沒有調整的計畫、方向？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你應該知道，你在這邊這樣問，不會得到我的答案。不要說會對閣員……我如果說「會」，是不是會打擊閣員的士氣？我如果說「不會」，你是不是覺得我……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我必須很鄭重地要求你……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有辦法。"],["洪委員孟楷：我鄭重地敬告：本席站在這邊問的都是人民所關心的議題……"],["卓院長榮泰：你問的人事問題我很難回答。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果你用那麼輕藐的態度，說這樣問不會有答案……"],["卓院長榮泰：你問人事的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：那這個是質詢嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：人事的問題公開問……"],["洪委員孟楷：這樣是質詢的精神嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：人事的問題！"],["洪委員孟楷：我沒有講特定人，我沒有指名道姓說是誰，我現在只是問你有沒有調整的方向，連這樣子你都可以傲慢地不回答！"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛跟你說了，大家都很努力，但不是每件事情都做得很好，我們必須檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：來！人事的部分有一個東西你總可以回答了！NCC委員被提名人的名單什麼時候要提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我自己要檢討，我儘快把它提出來，我們還沒有找到適當的人選。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，去年11月28日的時候，行政院就講「卓榮泰緊鑼密鼓徵詢中」，到現在4個半月過去了，名單還沒有出來！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們嘗試了很多，但是遇到很多的困難，說真的。"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼？是大家不願意，還是你徵詢的人不夠專業，怕名單提出來之後被大家覺得要否定？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們徵詢的對象一定是符合一定的專業程度，但他們對於……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那你有跟誰討論？今天在場有NCC代理主委，請問有跟代理主委溝通嗎？說：我現在名單還沒有完成，NCC的業務會不會停擺？你有沒有關心過？"],["卓院長榮泰：我一直要把這個人事給補上來，但是很多談的對象，他當然有基本的專業程度，但是對於……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們中華民國2,350萬人，沒有符合院長標準要求的4位人選？"],["卓院長榮泰：有，當然有，只是他對於……"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼四個半月提不出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：他對於未來的工作都有所顧慮，所以他沒有辦法答應，我們遇到很大的困難。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為代理主委說他不清楚，行政院沒有找他討論。所以院長你自己也不找現在的代理主委討論，然後就讓NCC的委員名單一直提不出來，你如果沒有提出來，立法院連審都沒有辦法審，你了解吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。再來，因為人數不足，所以現在空轉，37家頻道面臨了換照問題，怎麼辦？誰要負起責任？"],["卓院長榮泰：我還在努力，儘快找一個人出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候可以提出來？醜媳婦總要見公婆，本席期待的，其實你謹慎是好事啊！如果你用三個月的時間，謹慎提出專業、合乎大眾需求標準的名單，我想立法院沒有否決的理由，但最怕的就是你提出來的名單是不夠專業，或是讓大家覺得就像過去一樣是因人設事、因黨設事，當然我們就有審查的空間。可是我們現在要講的是四個半月過去了，請教院長，現在總質詢，什麼時候可以提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常抱歉，我們找的人一定符合相當的專業水準……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以要繼續空轉？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是對於未來的工作，他相當有顧慮……"],["洪委員孟楷：那會讓NCC繼續空轉嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們儘量努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：儘量努力，什麼時候提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我可以說個時間，我希望這個月份能夠提出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個月？所以只剩兩個禮拜，會不會跳票？不會吧？院長，你在總質詢的承諾不要跳票。兩個禮拜，4月底以前，讓我們看到您提出來的名單，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：其實我已經在準備，差不多好了，但是就最後差一點點的功夫。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。最後，院長，我們還是看一下最近的共諜案，共諜案的部分，我想中華民國是我的國家，臺灣是我的家園，任何人想要消滅中華民國，我都反對。共產黨要消滅中華民國，我反共；臺獨想要消滅中華民國，我反臺獨。因為這就是我們的國家，我們大家一起安身立命。但現在我們看到民進黨政府從總統府、從黨部、從外交部都有共諜的發生，這樣的狀況，很多人在講是不是還有更大咖？我們現在有沒有針對這部分，因為我覺得這是非常重要的國安議題，但是也是現在我們各部會大家共同要面對的，有沒有專案小組或者來了解現在到底還有多少有可能潛在的共諜？"],["卓院長榮泰：就因為我們之前已經發現了這樣的威脅……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以總統才在第二次國安會議當中提出十七項的……"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會還有更大咖？"],["卓院長榮泰：公務機關內部必須要加強清查。"],["洪委員孟楷：加強清查？院長，我最後只提一下，我們其實是有安全審查的規範。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是很多人講過去這幾個爆出來的共諜，在8年來只有審核一次，明顯看到現行的法令可能不足，該檢討的地方請檢討！"],["卓院長榮泰：有不足之處，立即檢討、立即加強補回來。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝卓院長備詢。","接下來我們請登記第50號劉建國委員質詢，鄭正鈐委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":159,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","蘇清泉","范雲","涂權吉","王美惠","洪孟楷","劉建國","鄭正鈐","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2025-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00003","1143401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143401_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}