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感謝主席本期邀請我們交通部陳部長好 陳部長委員好部長好部長我們今天在這裡討論美國關稅這次的對台灣的一個影響是其中大家前幾天討論很多的是汽車業但汽車業大家討論的就是台灣的關稅"},{"start":31.727,"end":57.486,"text":"17.5%還有30%的貨物稅但是我要請教部長美國這一次他針對他的四十幾個主要貿易國家他每一個國家他都寫一份報告我查了這四十幾個國家他點名汽車就是對美國汽車不公平的主要國家只有台灣其他都是一些奇奇怪怪像非洲一些國家"},{"start":58.752,"end":66.057,"text":"可是美國點名台灣對美國的汽車有貿易障礙他沒有講關稅也沒有講什麼貨物稅當然關稅我們太高 貨物稅我們太高這個我們現在可以跟美國來談"},{"start":77.045,"end":105.336,"text":"那現在看起來大概主管部會大家也就美國這個部分在談但美國對於台灣美國車子到台灣來它最大的不滿它是技術性的障礙不是關稅非關稅貿易障礙對可是我看這幾天在討論汽車業汽車的影響都是講財政部 經濟部我從來沒看交通部交通部都躲起來"},{"start":106.789,"end":119.855,"text":"今天造成汽車業被美國點名最主要的就是交通部政策造成的美方點名的是technical barriers to trade技術性的貿易障礙你知道我們的障礙是什麼嗎"},{"start":121.079,"end":140.294,"text":"報告委員其實汽車的部分有三項一項當然是交通部的一些法規上面是有一些限制沒有錯安全檢驗的部分標準檢驗的部分那第二項其實是跟能源是有相關的也就是我們能源署對汽車油耗也是有限制我講的是美國點名我們的障礙是什麼東西"},{"start":141.295,"end":162.941,"text":"我看起來你好像不懂這個部分耶你說的技術障礙我再跟你講技術障礙沒有說完美國這次點名技術障礙可能很多種也不止三種那美國點名我們是什麼地方安全法規標準的部分不是美國點名的是說我們對美國車子啊到台灣來我們一個車型一年配額限制75輛"},{"start":167.506,"end":187.516,"text":"那你知不知道 之前我們對美國車子到台灣來我們一個車型 原本一年限制多少輛很像最早期是從兩千輛到七十五輛慢慢慢慢降 降到現在七十五一種車型所以你要針對美國不滿的地方來 你今天的報告裡面寫的 你不寫也不寫這裡面寫的 航運 貨運 觀光"},{"start":192.301,"end":198.034,"text":"你針對這幾天討論最多的就是汽車包委員這個部分我們其實跟那你的報告應該告訴我們"},{"start":200.093,"end":226.773,"text":"那針對這個部分你要怎麼處理因為這個確實有一點不公平啦那美國進口的二手車有沒有配合沒有配合沒有配合喔這變得很奇怪的喔所以美國的二手車到台灣來啊就所謂的掛過 在美國掛過牌的啦就是我們台灣你說的外匯車啦李秋車啦一年哇 這個好幾萬台啊這個蠻多的很多台喔對"},{"start":227.935,"end":246.953,"text":"所以台灣上路的美規中古車啊各位看啦 這個其實看得出來啦我們外行 我為了這個才去研究因為世界上有兩大系統一個是歐盟的規則一個是美國聯邦經濟安全標準那台灣加入WTO的時候我們採用的是歐盟標準"},{"start":247.93,"end":273.038,"text":"因為世界主要汽車大國都在歐洲啦所以如果從歐洲進口車沒有這個問題沒有配合啦而且就是只要歐盟審核通過的車子就可以到台灣來但美國車子我們就特別定下一個障礙一個車型一年只能75台原本是一年2000台啊那現在變成到75台我不知道車安中心為什麼這麼定啊這誰定的啊"},{"start":276.518,"end":301.639,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下剛剛委員所提到確實就是說這個現行這個車輛安全法規的部分的話大家都是調和聯合國一位一席法規進來那原則上就是說國際上各個車廠要銷售到各地的這個車輛的話基本上就是要符合當地國的這個法規那當時這個純美規車輛的部分基本上就是說純美規你為什麼先回答我的問題"},{"start":304.681,"end":330.508,"text":"從2000台到75台那為什麼美國二手車你就沒有限配當時對於純美規的這個車輛基本上其實我們是相較於日本或是這個韓國是特別開了一條路就是說純美規的車輛還可以到這一個國內來那剛剛委員所提到那個外匯車中古車的部分的話因為他是屬於這個使用過的車輛他的法規檢測項目比較少所以"},{"start":330.868,"end":342.968,"text":"如果玫瑰車你講的是我們特別開個縫那為什麼二手車都可以就沒有限制然後你新車就給他限制我現在不是你在這邊跟我講現在是美方把這樣子認為是一個貿易障礙"},{"start":346.868,"end":374.529,"text":"他特別點名台灣你怎麼給我做這樣的限制報告委員這個部分我們已經跟行政院那邊也都有做溝通那未來該怎麼樣去跟美國談判其實我們也都已經有版本我跟你說啦部長我跟你講他們這個一個你們車安中心還有陸中獅這邊你們這個非常衙門化你這官僚你也回答不出來啊你兩兄弟現在槓七十五台所以各位有沒有注意到啊其實啊"},{"start":376.348,"end":403.386,"text":"台灣現在看不到純美國車的車子啦像卡迪拉克啦雪佛朗這些你大概看不到啦那福特為什麼看得到那福特車子為什麼看不到福特車子都是歐規的啦他們是做歐規的沒錯他們都用歐規的車包含特斯拉雖然在美國製造但是他是用歐規的車他們都用歐規的車因為我們台灣人汗水只用車營70幾台嘛"},{"start":406.397,"end":419.325,"text":"那現在造成啊我記得好像Poeta有一個車型有一個車啦他就用一個車型他其實同一台車啦他用不同的規格車子就申請為四五種車型用這樣來鑽漏洞那你也是準啊"},{"start":424.085,"end":451.017,"text":"你賣準跟委員報告他那個沒有專注因為我們是同意車同意這個規格車輛行駛我跟你講這個如果不是美國把它點出來說你台灣設一個貿易障礙我也不知道我也不知道我們有這麼多人我現在發現啦美方指責我們這個貿易障礙這有得力啊你憑什麼人就市長來決定啦對不對但其實日韓各國也都是那我跟你講喔你這樣的話對於"},{"start":454.27,"end":470.014,"text":"你不要被旁邊人給影響美國沒有跟日本車 韓國車美國車是銷到日本 韓國美國沒有點出貿易障礙他只有特別點台灣你不要被旁邊的幕僚給你唬爛去還有 你要跟我們寫關稅對台灣的交通部對關稅的因應還有影響台灣有個產業會影響很大"},{"start":478.208,"end":497.464,"text":"台灣沒有車子銷美國啦 幾乎沒有但台灣的汽車零組件 銷美國量很大啦台灣一年有1000多億的汽車零組件這是台灣非常重要的衛銷產業啦台灣非常強啦包括燈啦 輪框啦 輪壺 一大堆啦你現在如果美國用這樣的關稅齁那這個汽車零組件我們賺的"},{"start":499.728,"end":522.453,"text":"你裡面連寫也沒寫到報告員這是在經濟部的報告裡面那跟你交通部沒關係嗎對不對零組件的產業不是我的產業這些也是我們交通部車輛的零組件嘛照你寫各位可以看一下交通部寫的這個報告跟美國關稅跟交通部一樣應用也沒有你寫起來是毫無影響啊那我再告訴你你躲了好幾天啊"},{"start":526.052,"end":554.774,"text":"去美方點名我們的汽車貿易障礙要出來回答這個問題的是交通部啦財政部講的是關稅 那沒有錯我去談經濟部有去談你的關稅或是稅那你交通部要出來回答這個問題嘛你告訴我台灣是很少見的來 你去查一下美國對這幾十個主要貿易國家有提到汽車台灣大概是唯一啦"},{"start":555.816,"end":572.174,"text":"其他國家我沒有看到你說日本 韓國沒有啦美方沒有認為他美國撤資到日本 韓國有什麼障礙只有點名我們台灣點名就是這個問題這個其實不合理啦那如果沒有美國來點名的話其實沒人知道他們也是照幹啦"},{"start":572.955,"end":580.669,"text":"你旁邊那些他們什麼相關單位報告委員第一時間我們已經跟行政院那邊都有溝通我知道因為美國都跟你講了他還沒講我們就再處理了好謝謝主席啦謝謝部長謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":662,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時38分）感謝主席，本席邀請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長好。部長，我們今天在這裡討論美國關稅對臺灣的影響，其中大家前幾天討論很多的是汽車業，大家討論的是臺灣汽車的關稅17.5%還有30%的貨物稅，但是我要請教部長，美國這一次針對四十幾個主要貿易國家，每一個國家他們都寫一份報告，我查了這四十幾個國家，他們點名汽車，就是對美國汽車不公平的主要國家只有臺灣，其他都是一些奇奇怪怪的，像一些非洲國家，可是美國點名臺灣對美國的汽車有貿易障礙，他們沒有講關稅，也沒有講什麼貨物稅，當然關稅我們太高、貨物稅我們太高，這個我們現在可以跟美國來談，現在看起來，大概主管部會也就美國這個部分在談，美國對於臺灣，美國車子到臺灣來，最大的不滿是技術性的障礙，不是關稅。"],["陳部長世凱：非關稅貿易障礙。"],["林委員俊憲：對，可是我看這幾天在討論汽車業及汽車的影響，都是講財政部、經濟部，我從來沒看到交通部，交通部都躲起來，今天造成汽車業被美國點名，最主要的就是交通部的政策造成的，美方點名的是Technical Barriers to Trade（技術性貿易障礙），你知道我們的障礙是什麼嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實汽車的部分有3項，第一項當然是交通部的一些法規上面有些限制，沒有錯！安全檢驗、標準檢驗的部分。第二項其實跟能源是有相關的，也就是能源署對於汽車油耗也是有限制……"],["林委員俊憲：我講的是美國點名我們的障礙是什麼東西，我看起來你好像不懂這個部分，你沒有……"],["陳部長世凱：不會啊！你說的技術障礙，我在跟你講技術障礙，沒有錯啊！"],["林委員俊憲：不是，美國這次點名，技術障礙可能很多種，也不只3種。"],["陳部長世凱：對啊！"],["林委員俊憲：美國點名我們的是什麼地方？"],["陳部長世凱：安全法規標準的部分。"],["林委員俊憲：不是，美國點名的是我們對美國車子到臺灣來，一個車型一年……"],["陳部長世凱：你說的是配額。"],["林委員俊憲：配額限制75輛。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員俊憲：那你知不知道是之前我們對美國車子到臺灣來，一個車型原本一年限制多少輛？"],["陳部長世凱：很像最早期是從2,000……"],["林委員俊憲：2,000輛到75輛。"],["陳部長世凱：慢慢慢慢降，降到現在一種車型75輛。"],["林委員俊憲：所以你要針對美國不滿的地方，你今天的報告連寫也沒寫到，這裡面寫的航運、貨運、觀光，你要針對這幾天討論最多的汽車。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個部分我們其實跟……"],["林委員俊憲：你的報告應該要告訴我們，針對這個部分要怎麼處理？因為這個確實有一點不公平，美國進口的二手車有沒有配額？"],["陳部長世凱：沒有。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有配額，這變得很奇怪，所以美國的二手車到臺灣來所謂在美國掛過牌的，就是我們臺灣說的外匯車、二手車啦！一年好幾萬臺。"],["陳部長世凱：對，這個蠻多的。"],["林委員俊憲：很多臺哦！所以臺灣上路的美規中古車，各位看，這個其實看得出來，但是我們外行，我為了這個才去研究，因為世界上有兩大系統，一個是歐盟的規則，一個是美國聯邦汽車安全標準。臺灣加入WTO的時候，我們採用的是歐盟標準，因為世界主要汽車大國都在歐洲，所以如果歐洲進口車沒有這個問題，沒有配額，而且只要歐盟審核通過的車子就可以到臺灣來，但是美國車子我們就特別定下一個障礙，一個車型一年只能75臺，原本是一年2,000臺，現在變成75臺，我不知道車安中心為什麼這麼定？這是誰定的？75臺是怎麼定的？"],["林司長福山：這個部分我跟委員報告一下，剛剛委員所提到的就是現行車輛安全法規的部分，大家都是調和聯合國UNECE法規進來。"],["林委員俊憲：對。"],["林司長福山：原則上，國際上各個車廠要銷售到各地的車輛就是要符合當地國的法規，當時純美規車輛的部分基本上就是，純美規……"],["林委員俊憲：你為什麼限定？回答我的問題，從2,000臺到75臺，為什麼美國二手車就沒有限配額？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下，當時對於純美規的車輛，其實我們相較於日本或者是韓國，是特別開了一條路，就是純美規的車輛還是可以到國內來，剛剛委員所提到外匯車、中古車的部分，因為它是屬於使用過的車輛，它的法規檢測項目比較少，所以……"],["林委員俊憲：如果美規車你講的是我們特別開個縫，為什麼二手車可以沒有限制，然後新車就限制？現在不是你在這邊跟我講，現在是美方認為這樣是一個貿易障礙，他們特別點名臺灣為什麼做這樣的限制。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個部分我們已經跟行政院也都有做溝通，未來該怎麼樣跟美國談判，其實我們也都已經有版本，這個都沒有問題。"],["林委員俊憲：我跟你說，部長，因為你們車安中心還有路政司，你們非常衙門化，這些官僚也回答不出來，2,000輛為什麼要降到75輛？所以各位有沒有注意到其實臺灣現在看不到純美國車的車子，像凱迪拉克、雪佛蘭這些大概看不到啦！那福特為什麼看得到？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，雖然有開75輛，但是沒有人需要啦！"],["林委員俊憲：福特的車子為什麼看得到？福特車子都是歐規的。"],["陳部長世凱：他們是做歐規的，沒錯！"],["林委員俊憲：都用歐規的車進來。"],["陳部長世凱：包含特斯拉雖然在美國製造，但它是用歐規。"],["林委員俊憲：他們都用歐規的車，因為臺灣限制一種車型七十幾臺嘛！現在造成我記得好像Toyota有一個車就用一個車型……其實是同一臺車用不同規格的車子申請為四、五種車型，用這樣來鑽漏洞。"],["陳部長世凱：委員說的是廂型車啦！"],["林委員俊憲：那你也是准啊！你們也准！"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告，那個沒有鑽漏洞，因為我們是同意這個規格的車輛型式，因為他們的車輛型式都不同……"],["林委員俊憲：我跟你講，如果不是美國把它點出來說臺灣設一個貿易障礙，我也不知道我們有這個限制，我現在發現美方指責我們這個貿易障礙，這是有道理啊！你憑什麼這樣？就由市場來決定啦！對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：但其實日、韓各國也都是這樣做。"],["林委員俊憲：我跟你講，你不要被旁邊的人影響，美國車子銷到日本、韓國，美國沒有點出貿易障礙，他只有特別點臺灣，你不要被旁邊的幕僚「唬爛」了，你要寫出交通部對關稅的因應還有影響，臺灣有一個產業會影響很大，臺灣沒有車子銷美國，幾乎沒有，但臺灣的汽車零組件銷往美國的量很大，臺灣一年有一千多億的汽車零組件，這是臺灣非常重要的外銷產業，臺灣非常強，包括燈、輪框、輪弧等一大堆，現在如果美國用這樣的關稅，汽車零組件穩慘的，你裡面連寫也沒寫到。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這是在經濟部的報告裡面。"],["林委員俊憲：跟交通部沒有關係嗎？對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：零組件的產業不是我們交通部這邊。"],["林委員俊憲：這些也是你們交通部車輛的零組件嘛！照你寫的，各位可以看一下交通部寫的報告，美國關稅跟交通部一點影響也沒有，你們寫起來是毫無影響，我再在告訴你……"],["陳部長世凱：那個在經濟部的報告裡面有提到。"],["林委員俊憲：你躲了好幾天，美方點名我們的汽車貿易障礙，要出來回答這個問題的是交通部。財政部講的是關稅，沒有錯，可以去談。經濟部也去談你的關稅、貨物稅。那你交通部要出來回答這個問題嘛！你們有講到嗎？臺灣是很少見的，你去查一下美國對這幾十個主要貿易國家有提到汽車，臺灣大概是唯一啦！其他國家我沒有看到，你說日本、韓國，沒有，美方沒有認為美國車子到日本、韓國有什麼障礙，只有點名我們臺灣，就點名這個問題，這個其實不合理啦！如果沒有美國點名的話，其實沒人知道，他們也是照幹，你旁邊那些是什麼相關單位？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，第一時間我們已經跟行政院那邊都有溝通看怎麼……"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，因為美國都跟你講了，你怎麼可以不溝通？"],["陳部長世凱：他還沒講，我們就在處理了。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時48分）","繼續開會（10時58分）"],["主席：各位請就座。","接下來請魯明哲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-7","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","黃健豪","陳雪生","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","徐富癸","許智傑","陳俊宇","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","葉元之","王美惠","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡易餘","陳冠廷","游顥","林宜瑾","邱志偉"],"page_start":319,"meetingDate":["2025-04-16"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長、經濟部次長、\n外交部次長、財政部次長及行政院經貿談判辦公室就「美國課徵對等關稅對我國交通公私部門之\n衝擊與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143901_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}