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在場的委員先進 列席的政府機關組長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們財政部理事長還有經濟部郭部長 以及國防會的劉主委劉主委各位好"},{"start":28.883,"end":55.009,"text":"次長好 部長好 主委好題目是即時應應對關稅展延的資金需求要提早佈局未來產業的有案分工來 首先請教一下次長你看看這個本來要課高關稅展延90天 結果科技業出貨潮本來爆倉 周末倉位是滿的要趕在關稅後來有可能變高前 有貨先過去有沒有看到這樣的現象 次長"},{"start":57.348,"end":73.769,"text":"除了倉位有需求之外有沒有資金的需求應該也是會有資金的需求好我們來看一下美國川普政府的超高關稅嚇倒了全國的出口業全世界出口業本來約訂單暫停結果暫緩90天現在大量訂單湧入除了原料採購才能全該"},{"start":75.103,"end":91.052,"text":"有沒有本來我們的880億是要因應那種貨出不去訂單被取消融資被斷頭那現在轉過來希望說趕快給他一點融通的資金趕快要補辦進貨出料財政部有沒有準備夏業"},{"start":93.629,"end":114.634,"text":"目前財政部有沒有針對我們各產業因為展延90天的現況而這個產業的資金需求能不能即時的到位報告委員其實我們那個所有的公股行庫實際上都有運用一些自由的資金在目前平常就在協助這些產業平常就有 這時候額外需要 我要看郭部長的臉色"},{"start":115.274,"end":130.552,"text":"看看有沒有轉好來 我們往下一頁部長其實呢 洗產地的事情我問過很多次了今天呢 我就不再贅述但是還是要來了解一下到底台灣怎麼迎來其實呢 在2018年川普1.0之前我們台灣在應對"},{"start":132.386,"end":147.114,"text":"美國的時候我們台灣會有關鍵的零組件然後在中國沿海地區有我們的相關的產業鏈供應鏈做零組件內地的便宜的勞動力來去組裝然後銷美國這是2018年前的情況但是川普1.0之後變成什麼"},{"start":149.115,"end":164.808,"text":"變成是啊如果說這些零組件呢直接從中國出去不行結果我們就有一個Plan A我們有個自貿港關鍵零組件在台灣但是不需要太多勞動力的呢零組件到台灣配上去就消美國是不是這樣這就是所謂境內關外部長是不是這樣子"},{"start":166.711,"end":191.267,"text":"是這樣的一個過去啦對對對好那另外一個模式是怎樣越南取而代之越南說我有很多的勞動力把昆山蘇州上海周邊這些電子產業的零組件送到越南來台灣把關鍵資源送過去組裝好後Plan B就到美國是也有這樣的方向過去這幾年越南走這條路嗎是是好我們看一看"},{"start":191.772,"end":214.818,"text":"那現在我們看看 自貿區可以直接進儲 不用核准 是這樣嗎自貿區目前應該是這樣好 所以你看 自貿區在2024年我們的自由港進出口破3兆2024的貨櫃破300萬那過去我們現在川普說你這個不能直接中國銷美國 所以我們在台組裝"},{"start":216.912,"end":238.331,"text":"還有呢 中轉他國直接在台灣過個水就出去那現在怎麼防止中國貨路呢是 報告委員我們大概有四點可以來這個防止第一個就是來監測進口量好 第二點那麼跟蘇美的產品做全面的勾擊對比這是第一點第二點 從嚴處罰最高罰300萬或者取消進出口商的資格"},{"start":244.156,"end":254.393,"text":"第三個我們加強反傾銷的調查我都幫你寫好了部長就這一頁我都寫好了因為你們有講過嘛我們委託方總輔導廠商局長我們來看一下桃園航空城"},{"start":258.991,"end":278.412,"text":"我們2024三兆的產值呢桃園貢獻2.4兆而且2025年還有一個台北港要個智慧車輛園區但是在2018年到2024年經濟部根據自由港的條例到歐盟到英國的美國的自行車電動輔助自行車履制輪胎圈到先核准什麼意思部長認為為什麼這樣子"},{"start":281.001,"end":295.895,"text":"因為自貿區本來不用核定的嘛但這幾個東西這些進口國認為有息產地嘛所以要先核准嘛 是不是這樣是啊 確保台灣有這個產地所以說自貿區要防止息產地在川普2.0之後也行不通了那麼"},{"start":296.636,"end":325.561,"text":"越南的部分呢也被美國盯得很死也行不通了所以好像有一個說法譬如說另外找個像菲律賓這樣的國家他有很多的勞動力把一些原來台灣消美的零組件呢產業鏈移到菲律賓台灣的關鍵零組件到那邊去這個是不是就是你所謂的境外關內的一種模式是的是的很好所以呢我們往下看所以未來境外關內可能是應對所謂的息產地自貿區的模式不可行的時候來接下來我們看劉主委劉主委"},{"start":326.38,"end":342.174,"text":"台灣現在有一個國家火箭發射基地了嘛是不是對現在選定九棚嘛目前在美國SPAC-X有四個發射基地SPAC-X一次可以發射143顆低軌道的通訊衛星那麼未來有沒有可能台灣也可以來協助像"},{"start":343.275,"end":366.683,"text":"團客的大巴士有SPEX但是呢兩三顆的小型的即時的送到我們台灣來發射就是有沒有這個可能呢台灣可不可以提供低軌道通訊衛星的運載服務有沒有可能從產業的發展來講這是有可能的有可能的我們可以跟美國合作團客你處理散客我來接對不對那台灣需要什麼需要運載火箭台灣現在有辦法獨立完成運載火箭的裝備嗎我們預計2027年會自己有對"},{"start":369.884,"end":393.749,"text":"但是我們可不可能跟美國分工以前我們跟美國買波音航空客我來載但是飛機你來賣所以我們跟美國買飛機有沒有可能未來我們跟美國買火箭或買火箭當中的比較高關鍵的像火箭引擎那我們台灣組裝後來發射有沒有可能這是有可能的是的所以我要跟郭部長跟主委說的就是說其實未來我們的產業除了"},{"start":394.749,"end":418.202,"text":"自貿區不可行 防止稀產地要努力 跟美國的銷售之外我們不要老是只是想賣東西給他 想辦法也跟他買東西來 我們看看川普說什麼 大債工業化 請問劉主委川普的債工業化是把鋼鐵拉回來美國 造船又拉回來美國運動鞋 球拍 紡織品 筆電 自行車都美國自己製造嗎汽車都自己製造 是這樣的意思嗎"},{"start":419.876,"end":442.081,"text":"我個人比較看法是說它應該整合對它友好的國家形成一個新的供應鏈機器所以它的再工業化不是重度最快效率最高是再分工化對不對所以中高階的美國留著中低階的排除中國後交給有岸來外包像無人機台灣現在死神這個等級的無人機美國不會交給別國生產"},{"start":445.868,"end":471.338,"text":"但是像中國的大疆那種低中低階的無人機會不會希望台灣結合以色列跟東歐的光電球我們來生產會不會這是有可能的因為我們正在復建這樣的能力是的而且我們已經有代工廠商已經產生了已經產生了嘛所以全球的產業重組的時候呢我們希望我們國發會要瞄準未來的產業需求不是只在現有的產業格局下跟美國去討論說有沒有中國成分"},{"start":471.818,"end":483.945,"text":"而是希望找到他的美國的再分工當中台灣居一個有利的位置跟美國分工合作你同意嗎同意好所以這時候的資金人力土地跟公共建設需要來最後三個問題分別請第一個對不起國發會"},{"start":486.949,"end":514.924,"text":"是不是已經評估未來的產業需求拟據了產業在全球化市佔據所需要的這四缺的這些狀況而且有解決方案國發委員會開始準備了這個有的有的好最後來請財政部財政部次長因應台灣產業受美國對等關稅影響短期資金需求提出一個方案報告可以嗎可以沒問題好請經濟部對於在中國的台商撤出中國後進駐境外關內園區的輔導方案可以提出一個說明嗎報告"},{"start":516.378,"end":537.58,"text":"這個境外觀念是您的嘛可以可以您的倡議嘛往往深得您的倡議的精髓來幫忙講這個事情最後請國發委研議全國去中供應鏈的情況之下如何提高台灣的產業全球市佔率和解決到所需要的資金人才土地跟供應建設的方案提出來一個報告跟說明可以跟本席嗎這可以啊好 謝謝主委 謝謝次長 謝謝部長好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":701,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時44分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請財政部李次長，還有經濟部郭部長，以及國發會劉主委。"],["主席：李次長，郭部長，劉主委。"],["李次長慶華：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好、部長好、主委好。題目是「及時應對關稅展延資金需求，提早布局未來產業友岸分工」，首先請教次長，你看看，本來要課高關稅，現在展延90天，結果科技業出貨潮，還爆艙，週末艙位是滿的，要趕在關稅可能變高前有貨先過去，有沒有看到這樣的現象？次長。"],["李次長慶華：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：除了艙位有需求之外，有沒有資金的需求？"],["李次長慶華：應該也是會有資金的需求。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們來看一下，美國川普政府的超高關稅嚇倒了全世界出口業，本來以為訂單暫停，結果暫緩90天，現在大量訂單湧入，除了原料採購，還要產能全開。本來我們的880億是要因應那種貨出不去、訂單被取消、融資被斷頭，現在轉過來希望趕快給他融通的資金，要趕快補辦進貨出料，財政部有沒有準備？目前財政部有沒有掌握各產業展延90天的現況？各產業的資金需求能不能及時到位？"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，我們所有的公股行庫事實上都有運用一些自有的資金，平常就在協助這些產業。"],["鍾委員佳濱：平常就有，這時候有額外需求，我要看郭部長的眼色，看看有沒有轉好。","部長，其實洗產地的事情我問過很多次了，今天就不再贅述，但是還是要來瞭解一下到底臺灣怎麼因應。其實在2018年川普1.0之前，我們臺灣在應對美國的時候，臺灣會有關鍵的零組件，然後在中國沿海地區有我們相關的產業鏈、供應鏈做零組件，內地便宜的勞動力去組裝，然後銷美國，這是2018年前的情況。","但是川普1.0之後變成什麼？變成說這些零組件直接從中國出去不行，結果我們就有一個plan A，我們有一個自貿港，關鍵零組件在臺灣，但是不需要太多勞動力，零組件到臺灣配上去就銷美國，是不是這樣？這就是所謂的境內關外，部長，是不是這樣子？"],["郭部長智輝：是，這樣的一個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：過去啦！"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，另外一個模式是怎麼樣？越南取而代之，越南說我有很多的勞動力，把崑山、蘇州、上海周邊這些電子產業的零組件送到越南來，臺灣把關鍵人員送過去，組裝好以後，plan B就到美國，是不是也有這樣的方向？過去這幾年，越南走這條路嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，現在我們看看自貿區，可以直接進儲不須核准，是這樣嗎？自貿區。"],["郭部長智輝：目前應該是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以你看，自貿區在2024年，我們的自由港進出口破3兆，2024的貨櫃量破300萬，現在川普說不能直接中國銷美國，所以我們在臺組裝，還有中轉他國，直接在臺灣過個水就出去，那麼現在怎麼防止中國貨入臺呢？"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，我們大概有四點可以來防止，第一個就是來監測進口量。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，第二點。"],["郭部長智輝：與輸美的產品做全面的勾稽。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對比。"],["郭部長智輝：這是第一點。第二點，從嚴處罰，最高罰300萬或者取消進出口商的資格。第三個，加強反傾銷的調查，這個我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我都幫你寫好了，部長，就是這一頁，我都寫好了，因為你們有講過。"],["郭部長智輝：我們委託工總輔導廠商提告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，我們來看一下桃園航空城，2024年3兆的產值，桃園貢獻2.4兆，而且2025年臺北港要有一個智慧車輛園區。但是在2018年到2024年，經濟部根據自由港條例，到歐盟、英國、美國的自行車、電動輔助自行車、鋁製輪胎圈都要先核准，什麼意思？部長認為為什麼會這樣子？因為自貿區本來不用核定嘛！但是這幾個東西，這些進口國認為有洗產地，所以要先核准，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是，確保臺灣的產地。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以說自貿區要防止洗產地，在川普2.0之後也行不通了，那麼越南的部分也被美國盯得很死，也行不通了，所以好像有一個說法，比如說另外找個像菲律賓這樣的國家，它有很多的勞動力，把一些原來臺灣銷美的零組件產業鏈移到菲律賓，臺灣的關鍵零組件到那邊去，這個是不是你所謂的境外關內的一種模式？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，很好，所以未來境外關內可能是應對所謂的洗產地，自貿區模式不可行的時候。","接下來請劉主委。劉主委，臺灣現在有一個國家火箭發射基地了，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，現在選定九棚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前在美國SpaceX有4個發射基地，SpaceX一次可以發射143顆低軌道通訊衛星，那麼未來有沒有可能臺灣也可以來協助？像團客的大巴士有SpaceX，但是兩三顆的，小型的、即時的就送到我們臺灣來發射，主委，有沒有這個可能？臺灣可不可以提供低軌道通訊衛星的運載服務？有沒有可能？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：從產業的發展來講，這是有可能的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有可能的，我們可以與美國合作，團客你處理，散客我來接，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那臺灣需要什麼？需要運載火箭，臺灣現在有辦法獨立完成運載火箭的裝配嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們預計2027年會有一個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：會自己有？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我們可不可能跟美國分工？以前我們向美國買波音，航空客我來載，但是飛機你來賣，所以我們向美國買飛機，有沒有可能未來我們向美國買火箭或買火箭當中比較高關鍵的像火箭引擎，我們臺灣組裝後來發射，有沒有可能？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這是有可能的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以我要跟郭部長及主委說的是，其實未來我們的產業除了自貿區不可行、防止洗產地要努力、對美國的銷售之外，我們不要老是只想賣東西給它，想辦法也跟它買東西。","來，我們看一下，川普說什麼？他要再工業化，請問劉主委，川普的再工業化是把鋼鐵業拉回來美國、造船業拉回來美國，運動鞋、球拍、紡織品、筆電、自行車都美國自己製造嗎？汽車都自己製造嗎？是這樣的意思嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我個人看法比較是說，它應該整合對它友好的國家，形成一個新的供應鏈體系，因為這樣速度最快效率最高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以他的再工業化不是重工業全部恢復，是再分工化，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以中高階的美國留著，中低階的，排除中國後交給友岸來外包。像無人機，「死神」這個等級的無人機，美國不會交給別國生產嘛！但是像中國的大疆那種中低階無人機，會不會希望臺灣結合以色列跟東歐的光電球，我們來生產？會不會？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這是有可能的，因為我們正在布建這樣的能力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以說全球的……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：而且我們已經有代工廠商產生了，有2家。"],["鍾委員佳濱：已經產生了嘛！所以全球產業重組的時候，我們希望國發會要瞄準未來的產業需求，不是只是在現有的產業格局下跟美國去討論有沒有中國的成分，而是希望在美國的再分工當中，臺灣居於一個有利的位置，與美國分工合作，你同意嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以這個時候的資金、人力、土地及公共建設的需要，國發會是不是已經評估未來的產業需求，擬具了臺灣產業在全球化市占率所需要的這四缺的狀況，而且有解決方案？國發會有沒有開始準備了？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個有的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有的，好。最後，請財政部次長。"],["李次長慶華：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因應臺灣產業受美國對等關稅影響短期資金需求的方案，提出一個報告可以嗎？"],["李次長慶華：可以，沒問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。請經濟部對於在中國的臺商撤出中國後，進駐境外關內園區的輔導方案，可以提出一個報告及說明嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個境外關內是您的嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：可以、可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：您的倡議嘛！我好像深得您的倡議的精髓，來幫忙講這件事情。","最後，請國發會研議全球去中供應鏈的情況之下，如何提高臺灣產業全球市占率與解決它所需要的資金、人才、土地及公共建設的方案，提出一個報告跟說明，可以給本席嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。謝謝主委，謝謝次長，謝謝部長。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請蔡易餘委員做詢答，中午不休息，延長開會時間。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-9","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","李坤城","鍾佳濱","蔡易餘","張嘉郡","賴士葆","黃國昌","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","廖先翔","黃健豪","陳超明","翁曉玲"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-04-16"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長及財政部首長就「因應國際貿易情勢變化，如何協助\n國內廠商擴大國際市場」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}