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謝謝各位那我們現在就是會議開始"},{"start":1343.72,"end":1349.464,"text":"立法院第129屆經費稽核委員會第2次會議議程．時間．中華民國113年6月21日星期五中午12時10分至14時．地點本院群閑樓101會議室．一、報告事項．一、宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1365.464,"end":1391.841,"text":"立法院第129屆經費稽核委員會第一次會議議事錄時間113年5月17日星期五中午12時10分地點本院曲弦樓101會議室出席委員徐宇貞委員等3人請教委員陳宇貞委員等6人列席人員張副秘書長玉榮等3人詳簽到部主席徐宇貞委員記錄黃秋彥"},{"start":1394.102,"end":1402.831,"text":"一、經出席委員推舉徐宇貞委員為臨時會議主席．主持會議選舉本129屆上半年會期經費稽核委員會召集委員．決定輪值辦法．並訂定例行會議日期"},{"start":1413.459,"end":1427.331,"text":"一、依立法院經費稽核委員會組織規程第四條規定每會期應選召集委員三人經出席委員全體共同推選徐宇貞委員、張祺凱委員為召集委員"},{"start":1429.893,"end":1454.564,"text":"令請民進黨黨團再推派一席擔任召集委員輪值次序依序為徐宇貞委員、民進黨黨團推派委員、張祺凱委員二、本屆經費稽核委員會立會日定於會期間每月第三週星期五中午"},{"start":1455.504,"end":1467.547,"text":"二、報告事項．．本院113年度預算執行情形．．截至113年4月止．．決定準與被查．．宣讀完畢"},{"start":1480.937,"end":1480.957,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":1503.039,"end":1523.407,"text":"整體的呢?整張的呢?整張的開會的議程那個主席開會議程應該沒有準備就只有這樣子為什麼只有這樣子呢?我們天生就會主持真是不好意思是這樣子啊那我們的議程是這樣子所以我會對議程的部分會有討論宣達以後"},{"start":1526.088,"end":1526.108,"text":"名單"},{"start":1558.122,"end":1558.783,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":1575.803,"end":1576.864,"text":"議事錄確定後續有一個"},{"start":1596.603,"end":1620.982,"text":"那在議事錄裡面是帶到這一塊所以再重申一下這方面那是裡面還是裡面?都是裡面,因為是裡面,我只是在這裡,這裡在玩了嗎?對,這裡在玩了那等議事錄確定,問完這個的時候我就會再問這個東西再問這個東西,我會再給你就是說,好,所以我就是請大家報告"},{"start":1640.515,"end":1641.195,"text":"好,謝謝我們確定,議事錄確定"},{"start":1654.064,"end":1659.67,"text":"我先介紹在場的委員張雅玲、張委員、沈伯漾、沈委員、張其凱、張委員也到現場了我們延續再下來"},{"start":1670.78,"end":1674.421,"text":"一、民主進步黨．立法院黨團113年5月30日來韓推派賴會員委員．擔任第129屆上半年年會會期的經費稽核委員會召集委員"},{"start":1694.258,"end":1697.263,"text":"本院113年度預算執行情形（截至113年5月止））"},{"start":1710.56,"end":1728.512,"text":"我們坐在這邊的一個主席如果沒有一個總表讓我們來執行這一個議事程序的一個進行這個是怕會跳落掉這個可能下一次下一次要準備好 對不對好來請那個主計處那個許處長那個報告"},{"start":1739.229,"end":1760.384,"text":"主席各位委員大家好以下緊就立法院113年度截至5月份指預算執行情形報告本院為國家最高立法機關為持續推展院務各項經費收支均依實際需要按相關規定核實辦理以有效支援委員議案審查工作"},{"start":1761.403,"end":1771.449,"text":"有關113年度截至5月份．．預算執行情形．請降附表一蓋礦表．附表二明細表緊究稅入類經費類項目重點內容說明如後一、稅入類113年度稅入類預算共編列10713000元截至5月份指"},{"start":1782.776,"end":1782.796,"text":"委員．"},{"start":1800.646,"end":1806.529,"text":"二、經費類113年度經費類計區分一般行政、委員問政業務等9個業務計劃共編列預算36億4713萬3000元截至5月份指累計分配數16億536萬8000元累計實質數14億8397萬3000元執行率92.44%主要區分下列三大項目"},{"start":1829.901,"end":1846.992,"text":"一、委員問政專項經費本項目包括委員稅費及公費、公費助理、國會交流事務、委員會館、問政相關業務及黨團補助等6個工作計畫項目共編列委員問政及選民服務等相關經費14億69359000元"},{"start":1851.215,"end":1856.637,"text":"截至5月份止））累計分配數6億7910萬9千元））累計實質數6億3879萬3千元））執行率94.06%））主要包括委員稅供費及選民服務費"},{"start":1868.982,"end":1875.465,"text":"公費助理籌金及加班費等人事費5億7180萬1千元委員營救室住宿會館水電通訊費、團體保險、辦公事務費、交通費及國會交流等業務費6137萬2千元黨團補助費562萬元"},{"start":1889.372,"end":1906.303,"text":"二、議事行政支援經費本項目包括一般行政、議事業務、立法諮詢業務、國會圖書業務、公報業務及第一費金等6個工作計劃項目共編列議事行政支援及職工委員維持等相關經費19亿9512萬4千元"},{"start":1910.606,"end":1915.848,"text":"截至5月份．．累計分配數924259000元．累計實質數843603000元．執行率91.27%．主要包括職工信奉保險及退休處境等人事費65968萬元．"},{"start":1930.934,"end":1931.315,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":1952.296,"end":1970.526,"text":"三、一般建築及設備經費．本項目包括營建工程、交通及運輸設備及其他設備等三個工作計劃項目共編列1億8265萬元．包括本院委員住宿會館整修．委員公務用車輛汰換．各項資訊應用系統開發及軟硬體設備構置．汰換數位影音儲存資料庫及數位印刷機等案"},{"start":1977.35,"end":1984.898,"text":"截至5月份．．累計分配數200萬元．累計實質數157萬7千元．執行率78.85%主要器．會議麥克風擴錄音及現在時間系統備援設備採購案等案．契約未達副管條件．致影響預算執行進度"},{"start":1997.592,"end":2026.329,"text":"三、接遇以上系本院113年度截至5月份之預算執行情形（均依業務實際需要及規定程序本準決原則何時檢討辦理整體預算執行尚稱正常緊究重點內容二要報告敬請指教謝謝好謝謝謝謝處長那在那個請教在現場的委員有沒有針對的就是說我們的預算執行的情形有什麼樣的一個指證"},{"start":2028.905,"end":2030.325,"text":"沒有．．．．．．．．．"},{"start":2056.031,"end":2063.314,"text":"律法院各部門的同事做一個介紹律法院各部門的同事做一個介紹"},{"start":2089.665,"end":2110.655,"text":"主席還有兩位委員還有各位同仁大家午安大家好我現在先介紹我們的一級主管首先是我們主席處處長接著是總務處廖處長接著是秘書處孔處長"},{"start":2119.977,"end":2126.022,"text":"國際處林處長義政博物館館長中南部服務中心黃主任人事處黃處長國會圖書館館長"},{"start":2151.446,"end":2152.346,"text":"議事處秘書、公報處副處長"},{"start":2168.084,"end":2196.745,"text":"不好意思,是不是副秘書長,我們是每位委員都有一份這樣的名單,一級主管的名單嗎?可以影印給委員,我們現在請那個同仁去影印一下副秘書長,我在臨時動議之前,我先跟你做一個建議像我們後來的新來的,就是後來到的這個委員,我也不知道怎麼稱呼他"},{"start":2200.468,"end":2223.165,"text":"所以你這個簽到簽到也沒有到我這個地方啊你們造成我的失禮然後為什麼會是開會的程序是這麼混亂呢我們立法院是一個國家的最高立法機關每天你們都在這個地方看到八個委員會不斷的一直開會一直開會怎麼變成我們自己的內部會議的時候會是這樣的一個狀況啊"},{"start":2225.45,"end":2252.198,"text":"這個部分我們下一次會議的時候把資料整個準備好然後給主席是不好意思我補充介紹一下翁曉琳翁委員翁委員抱歉我真的不認識結果這個是立法院獻我於不義這個為什麼會開會是這樣子的一種方式我們換了一個院長不是有一個"},{"start":2253.479,"end":2253.759,"text":"立法院第129屆經費稽核委員"},{"start":2273.055,"end":2290.964,"text":"主席在未來不管哪一個政黨坐在這個地方我希望就是讓這個開會的程序是比較流暢一點然後就是你們準備的資料要充分當然沒有問題 謝謝委員指教我還是覺得因為我們兩個月開一次會"},{"start":2294.305,"end":2313.869,"text":"一個月開一次會一個月開一次會我們的一級主管都會都會在這裡那我也希望就是說每一次因為我們是最關心在立法院監督你們的預算執行的情況那就是說每一次拜託就是把這個一級主管都再跟我們介紹一次沒有問題再來好"},{"start":2321.943,"end":2335.885,"text":"報告完了,謝謝臨時動議好,臨時動議,來因為我們現在其實在每一個委員會都有檢報筆可是我們在議場、大院裡面卻沒有檢報筆那其實有一些委員他可能喜歡自己控制所以是不是可以在大院的議場裡面可以配置檢報筆這是第一個"},{"start":2350.408,"end":2350.528,"text":"主席"},{"start":2371.259,"end":2371.46,"text":"立法院提供委員選擇"},{"start":2387.5,"end":2387.58,"text":"張委員,謝謝張委員三個問題"},{"start":2416.613,"end":2421.757,"text":"謝謝張委員三個問題那這三個問題分別是總務處、秘書處跟資訊處我們是不是先請總務處處長先回應第一個問題簡報筆的問題那第二個問題請秘書處處長準備那第三個問題是資訊處那個廖處長"},{"start":2441.408,"end":2463.508,"text":"委員好那關於這個設備的準備我們會全力配合謝謝來 廣州長那謝謝委員的提示那有關兒童版的一個簡報我們已經在準備一個卡通的動畫版那導覽志工的部分我們也會加強來訓練來做分離導覽的工作都會遵照辦理資訊處來"},{"start":2475.537,"end":2488.608,"text":"諮詢書報告有關於雲端的組成的部分我們是有雲端空間的一個申請表有雲端空間的一個申請表那部分是委員室需要可以提出我們諮詢是會幫您開放相關的空間"},{"start":2492.791,"end":2497.095,"text":"張委員最後一個雲端空間的話等於開了那個數位空間就是我們這邊提出請購是嗎我確認一下是這個意思嗎"},{"start":2525.351,"end":2552.183,"text":"雲端空間直接提出的話﹖我們有兩個版本﹖一個是院內的﹖那次我們就有院內的空間﹖基本上就是比較安全﹖另外的話﹖我們目前也有一些O365的一個授權﹖委員如果有需要的話﹖我們也是可以開放給委員﹖讓委員使用一梯的雲端的空間"},{"start":2553.846,"end":2555.587,"text":"接著請翁偉炎、花炎"},{"start":2574.238,"end":2574.598,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":2589.449,"end":2611.461,"text":"就是像一般的行政機關裡面都可以編有什麼臨時工資或者是兼任的人員的費用那立法院這裡的有關於人事費用部分似乎是比較僵化跟一般行政機關特別是在學校裡面我們有比較靈活的有關於人事助理的費用"},{"start":2612.521,"end":2625.562,"text":"對,所以想請教是不是可以在一定的額度,仍然是運用委員的額度裡面的助理費用可是讓我們可以有更彈性的去聘請專監任助理好,我們接著請人事處處長來說明"},{"start":2643.181,"end":2666.45,"text":"主席跟翁委員報告目前我們編列的委員助理都是專職專任的經費有關委員提出來部分工時之前也有委員曾經提出但是我們因為他會涉及到很多的面向所以目前立法院並沒有做這樣的執行如果說要把整個就是在"},{"start":2667.83,"end":2669.571,"text":"對立法院來講只是暴漲的困難而已嗎?"},{"start":2698.465,"end":2717.821,"text":"因為我們現在編的是專職專任那你如果編成部分公使可能我們就要去思考說是不是在委員的額度委員的經費類那是不是可以也請你們去思考然後你們去計畫好不好因為我覺得這個部分是因應未來委員在聘請人力的時候更為彈性"},{"start":2719.162,"end":2721.763,"text":"我認為其實立法院應該要儘速研議接下來我還有第二個問題就是說因為新年已經進入到AI時代了可是感覺到立法院其實在很多的AI的數位環境的部分其實還是不夠的"},{"start":2740.548,"end":2765.016,"text":"因此其他的委員有建議說是不是未來立法院這裡也可以編列一些像是AI導入訓練的費用甚至也可以去研發用AI智慧宣讀法案還有AI的寫稿就像做文字記錄這部分不知道現在立法院有沒有在做這應該是資訊處吧"},{"start":2770.049,"end":2795.523,"text":"執行處回應那針對的就是這個我先跟那個翁委員前面這個議題就是我們的那個我們的那個助理公職助理專職專任還是有部分公職的一個彈性這個研擬我們請那個人事室主任在下就是你這一個業內要提出這樣的完整的一個報告給每一位委員好不好"},{"start":2798.933,"end":2802.356,"text":"不好意思,我要反映一下,可能是你們戴口罩"},{"start":2815.248,"end":2843.353,"text":"你們在講話我們都聽不清楚啊不好意思不要緊張這部你算一下就是那個AI部分的運用那目前公報處那邊有運用AI去做這個就是那個會議記錄的這個轉譯那另外的話就是如果是宣讀的部分目前是還沒有那這些的部分的話也是需要就是一些就是AI的運算訓練的一些資源而且"},{"start":2844.874,"end":2849.84,"text":"現在目前自轉印的部分其實有兩種一種的話就是沒有特定的"},{"start":2861.032,"end":2883.059,"text":"一般的選擇一個人聲幫你轉譯這是一種費用比較低另外一種就是配合某特定的委員或是要模擬他的聲音就需要額外的訓練這部分的話就費用會比較高一點如果說有這樣的需求的話我們可能就是要配合相關的議事單位我們看看"},{"start":2884.34,"end":2889.897,"text":"是哪一種的需求,那我們來去引用相關的一些solution"},{"start":2890.345,"end":2913.84,"text":"我的建議是說這個立法院這裡可能需要進行一個智慧國會的一個研究案對看怎麼樣透過從技術上面或是從管理上面去思考讓立法院變得更smart而不是讓我們現在覺得好像進來一個這個立法院之後很多的數位"},{"start":2914.941,"end":2939.857,"text":"的環境還有進步的程度都遠比不上其他一般機關學校所以這是我們大家希望資訊處或是秘書處這邊可以共同努力也許先委託一個研究計劃案然後讓他們外界其他的企業公司幫我們想一個比較好的solution提升這個立法院的相關的數位環境 謝謝"},{"start":2941.854,"end":2970.123,"text":"好 那個副秘書長顯然就是翁委員的題目跟那個我們資訊處的一個回覆好像牛馬不相干他講的是說我們立法院是不是就是在AI的一個算力上可以就是做怎麼樣的一個提升這個是不是由你來那個整體的一個回答是"},{"start":2971.428,"end":2971.688,"text":"主席"},{"start":3001.648,"end":3003.408,"text":"再跟委員做報告"},{"start":3031.704,"end":3052.266,"text":"接下來會員出現 雅琳跟柏陽跟小玲還有複密叫各級出台號那個剛剛提的某些有聽起來就是看大家好像對那個數位化是比較重視啦可以這部分可能大家盡量加強一下好不好那我問一個大家比較有相關的立委的就是今天有一張在我手上的就是"},{"start":3053.462,"end":3064.674,"text":"派加撤回60點竟的蔡玉儀跟那個房秀芳我現在要知道 像這種狀況一直都要怎麼處理這是第一點 第二就是我現在做立委我請了這派加大概統戰是幾點"},{"start":3066.994,"end":3067.254,"text":"好 謝謝那個"},{"start":3088.465,"end":3095.767,"text":"張委員我請處長先來做說明然後接著就請護秘書長再來做一個補充在這裡我想先跟七愷委員做一個報告因為事實上就是說我們用車的情況每個委員每個月就是80個小時"},{"start":3114.031,"end":3114.291,"text":"主席"},{"start":3136.408,"end":3151.156,"text":"後來是採取一個比較包容的方式因為用得到的委員絕大部分他們是比較中南部的委員那嚴正上我們還是尊重法規那就由總務處來做報告"},{"start":3156.349,"end":3171.144,"text":"謝謝委員,謝謝齊凱委員的提問那沈助主席所說那目前因為我們在北部我們的派車一天只能46台46台車那所以經過一個公式的計算讓它不超過一天"},{"start":3171.684,"end":3192.713,"text":"加班4小時的法定上限的前提所以算過一個公約數在歷屆以來約定每位委員的用車時數是以80小時為界限如果超過的話就在經費稽核委員會裡面公告這個用車超過的委員的名單那會後會收回"},{"start":3195.815,"end":3220.871,"text":"但是那個並沒有限制委員不能超過因為有些委員會反映說我因為問政需求所以我實際上用車量會比較高確實有這個情況那如果在派車的加班時間因為一天不能超過4小時的加班我們早上是從早上6點半開始起算6點半到8點半這是屬於加班的時段"},{"start":3221.391,"end":3221.751,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":3237.185,"end":3237.305,"text":"主席"},{"start":3269.121,"end":3283.591,"text":"早上最早是6點半早上最早6點半因為易宇跟秀芳這個我贊成就往比較包容的方向走這個待會就收回來這沒問題那你剛講那個6點半是從立法院派車出去還是到我們的地方"},{"start":3285.111,"end":3310.186,"text":"跟委員報告,因為我們的派車有分,就是只要我們的駕駛出車,就算是派車了所以我想說我要吃飯,我可以寫六點半,然後到我住的地方吃飯還是說要把那個時間預留出來,要到7點還是怎麼樣因為他可以報的時間他在說我太客氣了,就是6點半是不是就是6點半就6點半,那晚上就是10點就對了到10點,謝謝"},{"start":3314.41,"end":3332.896,"text":"在這裡我要跟處長做一個抗議我們常常我們已經很少用車子了像我們這種南部的委員然後就是我們晚上的應酬並不多那常常我們就是說坐著車坐著公務車其實我們在南部臺北這個地方我們變不熟悉結果"},{"start":3333.776,"end":3355.696,"text":"司機竟然會跟我抗議,他說委員你當時送到餐廳了,然後他就問你說什麼時候離開當然有一些絕大部分的司機都很客氣,他說委員我是不是9點來接你我就跟他說不用,我8點半,結果我不知道是不是"},{"start":3356.437,"end":3358.178,"text":"我跟我的辦公室助理講"},{"start":3385.973,"end":3401.678,"text":"就是賴會員以後就不要叫他的車了你就自己點名自己點名就是你不喜歡的你就不要叫他的車這一點倒是還可以請我們同仁做一個參考"},{"start":3404.318,"end":3413.491,"text":"副院長你要不要補充一下其實大部份的司機先生都已經有公示材我現在是在剛才跟會員講這個事情像我們平常是我們只是體諒他嘛所以有時候我們在寫稿子就要回去了阿不然對不對 所以會員說"},{"start":3418.24,"end":3435.256,"text":"有些朋友就...他八點...你什麼時候要走?他可能八點五十到幾點?你水晶也不好意思啊?那就延個半個小時,然後再半個十點去也不好意思啦那個當然就是對我們來講,我們事先跟大家講不好意思所以後來是不是有個技術層面就是說那我們就填九點半或十點嘛"},{"start":3436.178,"end":3448.572,"text":"先往後填這是不是一個比較好的解決方案那他如果早來也會開心啊你如果9點沒填10點,他如果9點也會開心啊你如果填9點,你如果10點也會不開心啊所以我們的技術面就是我們往後填是不是這樣?好,謝謝"},{"start":3458.476,"end":3470.323,"text":"我想請處長到張委員辦公室做一些技術上的交流還有指導因為我們也是學了很久才學會謝謝請問翁委員還有沒有什麼樣的"},{"start":3480.54,"end":3505.339,"text":"我又想到一個議題就是呢現在因為只有公聽會邀請專家學者才可以支付出席費可是我想我們立法委員問政還有研擬法案其實有的時候也是需要邀請些專家學者的所以是不是也是可以請秘書出這邊去研議未來可不可以也提供給委員們有一定的名額讓我們可以邀請專家學者來"},{"start":3507.581,"end":3510.002,"text":"開法案秩序會議的時候：可以支領出席費"},{"start":3531.694,"end":3554.523,"text":"這個我們有那個會後我們再來做一個研議因為這個部分因為牽涉到我們經費的使用還有它的那個內部的規定我們當然如果有一個相關的法規的規定的話那在我們主計的核銷上面預算上面都沒有問題的話我們當然支持委員的這樣的一個想法"},{"start":3557.418,"end":3558.098,"text":"我想就是說你回去就是"},{"start":3583.26,"end":3609.778,"text":"處理一下是不是我們財源上有辦法支付這樣子的一個建議案好不好當然如果說我們的預算上面有編列然後在這個合規定的範圍裡面我們都全力支持這樣子的一個做法謝謝好那本席有一個問題請教那個副秘書長這個周萬來秘書長是不是今天應該要到這個地方來開會"},{"start":3613.735,"end":3637.111,"text":"中秘書長因為他...他本來是不是應該來的?是啊那為什麼沒有請假?因為他今天那個身體非常的不舒服我不知道啊對那這個部分非常抱歉抱歉然後再怎麼辦?我們是不是會後我們那個再補一個假單是不是...我跟你講 副秘書長"},{"start":3638.032,"end":3667.214,"text":"已經都一再再強調立法院是國家的最高的立法機關那經濟稽核委員會本來就是立法院內部的一個會議所以就是說我們要請秘書長要尊重要尊重這樣的一個程序今天不管誰來當這個主席我覺得就是我們這個程序然後就是制度面都應該要出來我是看到了說這個周萬來為什麼他沒有到"},{"start":3673.029,"end":3690.927,"text":"秘書長,因為他是確診,很不好意思,他來的時候怕說...不是嘛,他已經七十幾歲了嘛七十幾歲確診是...這個我們都很不捨嘛就是說你還是要照一個規矩來啊對啊,不然我就說,我就才是說,沒有人在等,叫他來"},{"start":3694.145,"end":3713.084,"text":"對阿,你這樣的回答我是不滿意的阿是阿是阿,你如果身體有狀況這個跟主席就是去請假我相信我們每一個委員都會去體會可是起碼這個尊重應該要有你身體不舒服你就要請假對不對好,謝謝"},{"start":3716.145,"end":3740.32,"text":"接著是不是我再補充一下我們的中心大樓就是電梯上常常出現問題那試著是不是就是說因為剛才總務處處長有來跟我個人做一個說明那我是不是請處長你再跟我們每一位在座的委員再做一個說明"},{"start":3744.266,"end":3748.968,"text":"主席、各位委員,針對中英大樓近期的各項異常的狀況,我們在這幾個月也積極地來研討它的問題跟改善的對策。在4月份的時候我們就邀請了第三方的公認機構,也請技師來進行多次的敞刊,也發現了很多的問題。"},{"start":3766.577,"end":3790.553,"text":"因為這個電梯在前幾年在發包的時候它簡稱它就是一個拉皮的狀況它就是在舊的電梯它是84年完成30年的電梯它在做車廂內部的貼皮電控系統然後按鈕這些去增加但它原本裡面的這些各項車廂結構都還是舊的所以"},{"start":3795.756,"end":3813.476,"text":"我們經過場刊發現它在新舊介面在結合的時候它的電控系統只要發現各項異常那它就給你停機那所以造成了很多的困擾我們也相當的抱歉那這幾天我們也積極在進行改善"},{"start":3813.916,"end":3815.617,"text":"我跟在座的委員做一個報告在前不久好像是"},{"start":3842.796,"end":3861.903,"text":"中嘉賓跟邱志偉他們兩個被關在電梯裡面所以剛才其實那個處長也說明得非常清楚因為我們那一棟中心大樓它是一個舊的建築物下去拉平結果這個電梯它雖然換了它只是換到就是新的界面"},{"start":3864.313,"end":3887.006,"text":"所以我們每天在中興大樓是做的一個拼裝車的電梯所以我在這裡做成才師好不好 處長你看看這個就是針對我們中興大樓的同事就好了就是說你提供整個在這個電梯上"},{"start":3891.277,"end":3911.87,"text":"你現有的狀況你說你18項已經是驗收過了你還有多少項是沒有驗收過的讓我們在座的那個經濟稽核委員每一位也都需要這個資料中興大樓的每一位我們的每一位同仁都需要有這個資料"},{"start":3913.691,"end":3940.271,"text":"那讓大家知道不要就是說因為我今天要來開會的時候我們辦公室一疊這個資料同樣的,都是同樣的副秘書長,都是同樣的就是在講這個電梯的問題那免於大家是一個恐懼就是把它透明化或許你需要你需要怎麼樣一個積極上的一個修繕也讓我們可以來協助你們好不好副秘書長,來你做補充一下"},{"start":3941.475,"end":3959.017,"text":"謝謝委員 有關我們定期的檢查的資料依照委員剛剛的指示我們把它做一個整理提供給研究會館的委員還有經費稽核的委員來做參考跟指教 謝謝"},{"start":3962.311,"end":3966.493,"text":"請再補充一下現在應該想到兩個問題 你說薪資要整合對不對 要花很多時間 如果徹底要解決 像會員說的 要徹底解決 你是不是欠錢 你有沒有預算跟經費可以做這個事情 沒有錢喔"},{"start":3981.545,"end":4004.36,"text":"現在目前因為去年底12月份驗收那我跟委員報告剛剛我跟主席在會前的時候因為有這樣的疑問那去年9月進行第一次驗收發現了17項的缺失那後來在12月份進行了改善也驗收完成所謂的驗收完成是針對這一次拉皮的這一個採購的新的項目去驗收完成"},{"start":4010.404,"end":4010.704,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4034.059,"end":4051.552,"text":"至於在當時4月份的時候我們有請第三方技師把整個電梯打開去做徹底的檢查的時候就發現的一些各項介面有一些良率狀況不好的部分已經全部都更換完了只是現在他常常哪裡髒他也給你卡"},{"start":4052.853,"end":4054.014,"text":"您的意思是說現在太陽已經變多了嗎?"},{"start":4077.328,"end":4085.394,"text":"有解決嗎?有解決有解決有解決有解決有解決有解決就是第一次驗收有17項缺失在第二次12月份驗收已經改善完成所以他就通過驗收只是在這個驗收的過程他有一些違約的項目我們有進行罰款"},{"start":4108.132,"end":4115.098,"text":"最關鍵的就是影響我們的安全 或者整個電梯運作的 就是這17項嘛不是 17項只是在新的採購項目裡面 比如說它的按鈕這麼正常 電控系統這麼正常 那一些項目是驗收通過的"},{"start":4123.425,"end":4136.253,"text":"所以17人改革了 你的問題就是要有另外的問題新買的是改革 舊的問題是存在的舊的問題什麼問題就是比如說纜線的老化 皮帶老化 軌道一些變形這個等於是要 比如說我們現在再評估起來"},{"start":4141.656,"end":4142.797,"text":"請問在外面的一個大廈 它如果回到"},{"start":4167.76,"end":4183.838,"text":"很久的 要換 因為這次第一個時間一定很短 第二個一定是很快就可以處理掉 那怎麼在日本一點都不夠久我現在聽了 我這樣笑話灰灰的 就是說我們應該是更快 然後更完整的把它換掉 結果第一個時間拖這麼久 第二個好像也沒有處理問題啊"},{"start":4184.739,"end":4204.168,"text":"所以院長已經指示我們與委員跟所有成員的安全為最高優先原則所以我們已經在這幾天密集開了很多次會議也找了廠商跟技師來評估他的改善作為那因為我們不排除各種改善作為我要評估這個以最快的方式來做你還要評估好誰,一定有人發生危險"},{"start":4205.849,"end":4217.659,"text":"目前我們是先打開先讓他目前是修復的狀況那但是他這個裡面到底要把舊的換新還是全部換新這個部分我們在下週"},{"start":4222.483,"end":4222.583,"text":"主席"},{"start":4238.368,"end":4267.217,"text":"他國內這個電梯廠商大型的有幾家那他們目前因為國內目前營造業很多建案工地很量很大我們這幾天積極洽各廠商在問他們的量能那有從幾個月到大概他的工期有報6個月到18個月之間的不等那我們都還沒有進行實際的會刊預計我們下禮拜會邀請廠商來現刊然後提出各項解決方案"},{"start":4267.637,"end":4285.172,"text":"再跟各位委員來報告解釋完問題後就是總統就這樣解決問題解決問題就叫時間賽跑了嘛就是說我聽到現在是如天若灰啦就是說問題到現在好像不要說解決問題現在好像連問題都還沒有沒有清楚啦然後已經發生立委被困在裡面了"},{"start":4287.579,"end":4297.947,"text":"主席,我想請教處長,接下來是打算電梯就全部換新的還是說你們只是就舊的又再去換其中的部分的零件?"},{"start":4300.777,"end":4319.902,"text":"我們現在的方向當然就是以安全為第一考量所以在目前這種狀況底下因為有舊設備然後又當時的一個新的零件這樣子的一個問題導致了在感應上面太靈敏所以通常會有關人現象是這個樣子"},{"start":4321.282,"end":4326.985,"text":"目前朝的方向就是整個換新但是全部換新的時候如果是在會議期間會影響到委員的上下樓所以會分兩批一次換一台一次換兩台這種方式目前最大的問題就在經費坦白講就是經費因為今年的概算已經提出去了"},{"start":4348.334,"end":4348.515,"text":"主席"},{"start":4358.737,"end":4360.798,"text":"主席 抱歉 我先問一下 你在說你現在提概算 你準備到明年要多長時間"},{"start":4381.055,"end":4381.435,"text":"主席總署不答應"},{"start":4396.909,"end":4410.668,"text":"主席總書部答應,要講好跟委員報告,因為這個大概都是一些規定問題,也就是說它是未達使用年限,你如果認為有些需要性,那你要把它報費,要先報經審計部核准"},{"start":4413.692,"end":4414.652,"text":"大家好不好意思遲到了"},{"start":4443.687,"end":4448.736,"text":"我想在這裡要跟我們的所有同仁做一個報告"},{"start":4450.049,"end":4473.432,"text":"他們不敢講我來講因為我多你們一屆其實我們立法院在做很多事情都採取一個安全安全能再用這個為最高的一個原則你們大概沒有住會館你們如果來住了會館你們會發現就是說中華民國的那個國會委員其實實在是很可憐"},{"start":4474.69,"end":4480.028,"text":"我們住的空間非常小然後我們的位移設備非常的老舊"},{"start":4481.465,"end":4508.022,"text":"可是我們不敢自毀 大家都不敢提啊 大家都不敢提啊可是這個是安全性的問題 然後多少錢 一千兩百萬 不是一億兩千萬所以就是說 我覺得你們沒有一個 積極處理的一個態度有一個積極處理的態度的話 這個都可以克服 所以我剛一直在請教你們說 欸 足跡處 足跡處那個地方那個 足跡總處那個地方 不合給你們錢嗎 一千兩百萬而已欸"},{"start":4510.646,"end":4535.544,"text":"一千兩百萬,處長你有什麼樣的一個困難你應該跟我們做分享就是說可以啊因為這個你們有時候就是公務部門跟公務部門在在溝通上就是大家有一個治安難行還是一個行政法規上你們大家不好意思講嘛你們就私底下來告訴我們由我們來啟動嘛不能我們當然是怪你們啊"},{"start":4536.305,"end":4537.125,"text":"副議長,你要不要做一個補充一下"},{"start":4564.381,"end":4566.321,"text":"本席再跟你強調是一千兩百萬不是一億兩千萬"},{"start":4590.919,"end":4618.527,"text":"一千兩百萬如果你們告訴我們說在這個就是整個營資的狀況之下你們有這麼大的一個困難我覺得這個是你們的態度問題你看你的總預算有多少錢阿對不對這個是不應該的阿你們積極一點阿跟院長講你們積極去跟主席總務講阿我們做一個後盾阿好不好你們如果這裡是去說話不好往往我們進去來好不好謝謝"},{"start":4620.717,"end":4620.857,"text":"主席"},{"start":4634.447,"end":4637.79,"text":"主席講的有關於會館修繕的部分是不是也可以請相關的處事單位就研擬一個方案"},{"start":4658.064,"end":4664.609,"text":"因為我們有兩個住宿會館一個叫大安會館一個叫臺北會館那目前大安會館已經在今年的3月已經在施工中目前都有在這個施工的進程之上那預計在明年一年多的工期完成之後就會進行臺北會館的修繕"},{"start":4687.268,"end":4698.312,"text":"希望給委員一個比較好的住宿空間做一棟大概要一年多臺北會館大概要在明年下半年你們預計什麼時候可以再搬回去?臺北會館可以在啟用是什麼時候?"},{"start":4715.787,"end":4741.212,"text":"目前的工進就是目前今年3月進行大安會館的修繕他大概一年多的工期修完臺北會館移到大安會館後就可以進行處長你這樣的回答我是不滿意的你要精準一下什麼叫做明年明年會修繕完畢明年預計是在年中你的年中是幾月份是年中預計在6月左右接下來"},{"start":4745.854,"end":4758.604,"text":"會請臺北會館的委員就是移遷到臺北會館移遷到丹安會館後我們就會開始進行臺北會館的施工OK 好 謝謝那接著請我美會委員花言謝謝 不好意思 因為弟就站了"},{"start":4767.011,"end":4775.695,"text":"在這裏,我們的合同書和很多主管,在這裏我要表達一個意見,就是剛才我上來,我們有說到中興大樓的電梯,給我是小小意見,給大家演繹看看,最好是不要再開了,如果再開的時候,我們有三個電梯,一個是雙市,"},{"start":4790.842,"end":4791.022,"text":"一個單位、一個相的．．．．．．．．．．．．．．"},{"start":4810.652,"end":4812.973,"text":"大家如果要開會的時候是不是可以在旁邊的電梯給大家使用一下如果修理好的時候我們再開回來因為我們副院長的安全也要顧"},{"start":4826.778,"end":4828.98,"text":"．因為委員開會的時間．拜託大家注意．演繹看看．如果開會的時候．如果沒有開會的時候．就是照現在這樣．有時候我們等．忙啊忙 等啊等．實在很久了．說實在一六月要走到樓下．還是一六月要走到樓上．我沒有走過．說實在很慘了"},{"start":4853.718,"end":4853.898,"text":"主席各位委員"},{"start":4872.728,"end":4901.761,"text":"因為跟各位報告我們的電梯有三部最右邊那一台是每一層樓都會停那所以有時候大概清潔或者是送貨都會用那一台但其實它是可以獨立它是平常就有開放的只是那一層那個比較慢因為大家都在按那一台那另外的一個是單數樓電梯一個是雙數樓電梯所以如果委員如果真的比較擠可能兩邊都可以操控"},{"start":4902.701,"end":4908.083,"text":"但是他那個單數樓電梯他不會聯動另外兩台所以他是兩個系統沒有沒有在11樓你們去看一下有三台電梯因為我看最美的旁邊那個都不要去停11樓都不要輸用就是你們如果看就是12、12"},{"start":4930.714,"end":4944.012,"text":"你趕快去看看喔 議長 謝謝處長你們有專門設定直達到12樓沒有沒有 因為最右邊那個大家都在做嘛它是每一層都停的它是每一層都停"},{"start":4946.004,"end":4967.609,"text":"不是,因為是,我們一流的,你看,前面那個,就是最好的,中間那個,最好的,最旁邊那個,一流二流三流都可以買,但是你如果11流的,你如果看最旁邊那個,永遠就不會開,那你有時候如果看就是12流的,所以我才會想到說,"},{"start":4971.05,"end":4984.456,"text":"我不是說我們副院長有特權什麼的﹖那是為了他的安全﹖我沒有意見只是我說電腿如果壞掉的時候﹖那個是不是你可以了解看看﹖還是怎樣﹖因為它就是單數的﹖所以它不會變成一雙數的﹖它不會變成宅牢的﹖可能你們會想說﹖旁邊是雙的﹖所以不會變成宅牢的﹖"},{"start":5000.282,"end":5000.402,"text":"主席"},{"start":5020.797,"end":5020.937,"text":"委員會議員委員會議"},{"start":5039.266,"end":5039.646,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}