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Kacaw等17人、委員顏寬恒等18人分別擬具加值型及非加值型營業稅法第8條條文修正草案等3案。審查加值型及非加值型營業稅法六案本院委員鄭宏慕等22人擬具加值型及非加值型營業稅法第6條之一及第8條條文修正草案"},{"start":1929.393,"end":1951.404,"text":"本院委員林思明等27人、委員何孟凱等18人、委員郭玉琴等18人、委員陳金輝等17人分別擬具:「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第8條條文修正草案 等4案。」本院委員林楚英等18人擬具:「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第32條之1及第48條之2條文修正草案 等4案。決議一審查結果"},{"start":1952.785,"end":1975.147,"text":"第6條之一、第32條之一、徵定第48條之二、第50條均照行政院提案通過,而第8條全案保留送院會處理,而行政院函請審議、加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案、本院委員林楚英等18人擬具、加值型及非加值型營業稅法第32條之一及第48條之二條文修正草案等2案。審查完略"},{"start":1975.868,"end":1994.14,"text":"並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論,院會討論前不須交由黨團協商,院會討論時由羅昭及委員明才補充說明。3本院委員張宏祿等22人擬具加執行及非加執行一頁稅法第6條之一及第8條條文修正草案案。繼台灣民眾黨黨團委員黃潔等17人、委員吳宗憲等18人、委員林思明等27人、委員洪孟楷等18人、委員郭怡情等18人及委員陳金輝等17人分別擬具"},{"start":2002.466,"end":2010.752,"text":"加值型及非加值型音樂稅法第8條條文修正草案等7案審查完均並按擬具審查報告提報應會討論應會討論權需交由黨團協商應會討論時由羅昭君委員明裁補充說明通過臨時提案一案113年6月19日討論事項"},{"start":2021.039,"end":2047.495,"text":"一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法17案。一、本院臺灣民政黨黨團擬具財政收支劃分法修正草案。二、本院國民黨黨團委員文明財等23人、委員林思明等20人、委員徐宇臻等16人、委員洪孟凱等22人、委員丁學章等17人分別擬具財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案等6案。二、本院委員吳立華等17人擬具財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案。四、本院委員"},{"start":2048.776,"end":2068.622,"text":"陳奕臻等24人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條條文修正草案五本院委員黃建豪等21人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條及第20條條文修正草案六本院委員王宏威等24人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條第12條及第30條條文修正草案七本院委員陳昌明等17人、委員邱正軍等19人分別擬具"},{"start":2069.442,"end":2090.096,"text":"財政稅租劃分法第8條、第12條及第16條之一挑嚴修正草案等2案八、本院委員賴岳陽等16人、委員蔡玉儀等16人分別擬具財政稅租劃分法第16條之一挑嚴修正草案等2案九、本院委員賴世保等29人擬具財政稅租劃分法第16條之二、第37條之二及第38條之二挑嚴修正草案十、本院委員"},{"start":2091.056,"end":2118.607,"text":"賴思寶等22人擬具財政收支劃分法第38條之一條人修正草案二、審查財政收支劃分法3案一、本院委員張家俊等27人擬具財政收支劃分法第4條、第8條及第12條條人修正草案二、本院委員楊瓊英等32人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條及第37條條人修正草案三、本院委員鄭天財等18人擬具財政收支劃分法增定第30條之一及第30條之二條人修正草案決議"},{"start":2119.767,"end":2123.289,"text":"令則其繼續審查通過臨時提案4案宣讀完畢審查行政院函請審議、本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人、委員顏寬恒等20人分別擬具:「所得稅法部分條文修正草案等3案。」宣讀完畢"},{"start":2144.807,"end":2172.423,"text":"好原理介紹在場委員與與會官員首先要介紹林德福委員吳秉瑞委員顏寬恒委員財政部部長莊翠雲部長法制處黃惠玲代理處長國庫署陳柏成署長稅務署宋秀琳署長"},{"start":2174.434,"end":2196.267,"text":"官務署童英偉署長國有財產署曾國基署長財政資訊中心張文希主任臺北國稅局吳蓮英局長北區國稅局李怡惠局長行政院人事行政總處張雅惠專門委員法務部林豐文參事"},{"start":2207.093,"end":2225.549,"text":"好,接著依次安排審查行政院函請審議、所得稅法部分條文修正草案等3案將先請提案委員說明提案要旨後,再請財政部莊部長說明並回應委員提案內容首先我們請提案委員顏寬恒、顏委員說明提案要旨三分鐘"},{"start":2240.845,"end":2257.202,"text":"主席、各位立席官員大家好本席還有徐宇峥委員等20人為了稅制的健全、完善租稅的公平所得稅法目前採扣繳制度,包含營利事業負責人、機關、團體及自然人為扣繳義務人"},{"start":2260.646,"end":2269.538,"text":"本席的版本徵定行政法人信託行為之受託人應管理處分信託財產給付屬扣繳範圍所得時應依規定扣繳稅款為了確保"},{"start":2276.262,"end":2292.951,"text":"稅務及扣繳意義的遵守維護國家稅收的完整性徵訂行政法人給付該款規定應由扣繳因人依規定扣繳稅額藉此加強稅收管理增高"},{"start":2294.772,"end":2317.812,"text":"稅務遵從度並減輕稅務機關的積財壓力另外,破產財團的管理人作為破產財團的管理者負責管理破產財團的資產並支付相關債務應當承擔扣繳醫務人的角色為了確保在破產程序中涉及的款項支付同樣符合稅收法規的要求"},{"start":2318.613,"end":2342.979,"text":"使扣繳醫務人醫務及責任更符合行政法上醫務之適則一致原則並配合扣繳醫務人及計政機關實務作業需要破產財團之管理人應為扣繳醫務人藉此才能有效配合計政機關的實務作業需要保障國家的稅收及時足額"},{"start":2343.979,"end":2366.014,"text":"第92條當中的修正是為了配合實務作業需要,如果代扣稅款欲連續國定假日時,增訂期間得延長之規定。最後,所得稅預現任未繳納者,其自納處罰方式係根據稅捐基準法第20條規定來處理,為稅捐基準法已於111年1月1日調整自納金加徵率,"},{"start":2374.039,"end":2385.538,"text":"故所得稅法應隨之調整以上說明好 謝謝顏寬恒委員的說明接著我們請財政部莊部長說明並回應委員提案的內容"},{"start":2394.349,"end":2417.232,"text":"主席、各位委員先進、大家早。今天貴委員會審查行政院函請審議、還有大院政委員天財等17人以及委員顏寬恒等20人所分別擬具的所得稅法部分條文修正草案等3案。本人誠邀列席致感榮幸以下警究草案內容檢要提出報告進行指教。"},{"start":2417.847,"end":2435.805,"text":"首先就行政院函請審議的草案做重點說明為了使政府及時獲取稅收便利國庫資金的調度並且能夠完整掌握課稅的資料所得稅法設有扣繳制度那麼則由法定扣繳義務人依照規定來扣繳稅款以及填報及填發平單"},{"start":2438.127,"end":2465.956,"text":"沒有依規定辦理的話就依照規定要來做處罰那為人能讓所得稅能夠及時的徵起稅收掌握課稅資料及稅源的重要制度他是一個重要的一個制度而扣繳義務人的尊崇的程度也是決定扣繳制度成敗的關鍵因素我們為了優化扣繳制度所以這一次擬定了做了相關條文的一個修正重點如下第一個我們修正扣繳義務人的範圍由己父所得的事業"},{"start":2466.636,"end":2492.338,"text":"他的負責人還有機關或團體他其責應扣繳單位主管等自然人改為事業、機關或團體的本身第二個部分我們是徵定非居住者扣繳稅款的繳納還有平單申報以及填發的期限如果遇到連續3天以上的國定假日可以延長為5天第三個是修正沒有依規定填報或填發平單的罰則"},{"start":2494.279,"end":2512.23,"text":"賦予基徵機關可以在一定的財閥金額範圍內橫著具體個案的偽章情節輕重給予不同程度處罰的一個財量權。第四個考量居住者扣繳作業是採年度申報為了使扣繳義務人能夠充分了解修正後的規定"},{"start":2513.491,"end":2526.36,"text":"並具與辦理扣繳作業,而且相關聲報、書表以及系統也需要配合的修正,所以我們認為應該要預留適當的準備時間,所以明定這一次的修正條文施行日期由行政院定之。"},{"start":2527.827,"end":2551.765,"text":"那這一次修法的預期效益呢是把事業、機關、團體、給付所得的扣繳義務由他本身承擔那麼讓權責可以相符還有遇到連續假期合理延長非居住者的扣繳稅款報繳期限來減輕扣繳義務人的作業負荷另外就是積增機關可以是偽章情節的輕重給予不同程度的處罰來維護120萬家扣繳單位的權益有關大院委員所擬具的"},{"start":2558.391,"end":2562.436,"text":"提案和行政院的版本大致相同只是將其中條文的機關修正為機關構考量中央行政機關組織基準法第三條第三款的規定"},{"start":2575.794,"end":2597.427,"text":"機構是機關依照組織法規把他部分的權限及職長劃出來達成其設立目的的組織那麼準用該法的規定所以本質上仍然是屬於所得稅法所稱的機關的一環那麼現行的文字在實務執行上並沒有疑慮所以建請支持行政院的版本第二有關顏委員寬恒等20人提案"},{"start":2600.168,"end":2612.958,"text":"與巡政院的版本大致相同只是在第112條保留滯納金的加徵方式以及移送強制執行的規定以及沒有修正第114條、114之3條及1126條鑒於現行滯納金的加徵方式還有移送強制執行的規定已經在稅捐積增法裡面的第20條做了統一的規範所以我們建議不要在這裡重複的規定來簡化稅法的規範"},{"start":2628.05,"end":2637.518,"text":"所以建請本條及還有其餘沒有修正的條文都能夠支持行政院的版本以上的報告及說明敬請各位委員指教與支持謝謝"},{"start":2638.646,"end":2665.182,"text":"好,謝謝莊部長的說明。針對本次討論事項,現在開始詢答。先做一下宣告。每位出席委員發言時間為8分鐘,必要時的延長2分鐘。每位列席委員發言時間為5分鐘,必要時的延長1分鐘。今日上午10時30分截止發言登記。本次會議若有其他相關東西請盡送主席臺收件,被立後後續審查程序。現在依照登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員資訊。"},{"start":2675.959,"end":2680.022,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請財政部莊部長有請莊部長我也好部長你好部長我請教因為對岸就是中國商務部這個月15日起終止134項ECFA找收清單的零關稅的優惠那"},{"start":2702.151,"end":2724.593,"text":"臺灣機械工業工會推估臺灣機械設備年出口值將因此減少1.1億到1.4億左右美元1.1億到1.4億左右的美元在中國市占下滑4%到5%那我請問部長針對中資ECFA早收清單"},{"start":2726.214,"end":2751.63,"text":"這個凌關稅的做法你認為國內產業是不是都做好避嫌的這些措施呢?有沒有?跟委員報告對於終止ECFA134項以及加上今年1月終止的12項總共有146項那終止這個凌關稅的優惠以後呢事實上就會回復到一般的稅率就是最低是2%最高到17.5當然"},{"start":2753.007,"end":2758.194,"text":"對於這一些產業會有影響跟衝擊那這個部分產業主管機關經濟部呢我們相信他已經在做相關的協助、輔導以及協助我們的廠商然後來做一些調整這個部分經濟部是會做相關的措施的"},{"start":2770.031,"end":2791.425,"text":"川部長,雖然蔡前總統和賴總統都明確地宣示走進世界是台灣未來產業該走的路而不是再次走回依賴大陸的老路但是所謂產業該走的路,請問部長,你認為產業該走的路道路標示都很明確清楚了嗎?"},{"start":2793.527,"end":2800.854,"text":"跟委員報告對於有關產業的部分尤其是受到衝擊的中小企業還有傳統產業其實經濟部就了解他們其實一直在輔導這些產業做一些產業的升級"},{"start":2807.754,"end":2829.695,"text":"來提高他的競爭力不管是數位的轉型或淨零的但是有的沒有辦法升級有的是傳統產業阿是傳統產業那所以這個部分經濟部會協力輔導他們做產業的升級我相信數位的轉型對他們來說是很重要第一個可以提高營運的效率降低營運的成本那經濟部在這個方面會去加重的著力另外也就是在增加其他的"},{"start":2831.716,"end":2849.345,"text":"議長,你以前在我們整個東南亞的市場根本就做不出去,也推不出去,還是應該要走的路根本沒有鋪好,所以說很多產業感受到窮途末路的不安,有沒有?"},{"start":2851.039,"end":2862.256,"text":"這個部分呢就我了解經濟部其實有跟相關的產業都在做座談了解他們的一些困難在哪裡然後給予相關的輔導那相關的具體的措施我想經濟部可以做更詳細的說明"},{"start":2864.124,"end":2889.025,"text":"因為我們超徵其實尤其包括我們很多就是在整個貿易順差其實跟對岸的貿易佔40%左右那去年前年大前年其實都是對岸40%的貿易額我們幾乎都是順差啦那在全球"},{"start":2890.907,"end":2916.488,"text":"在貿易全球化的時代臺灣的產業想要做全世界的生意除了強化自身的產品品質特色和安全外加入區域的整個經濟組織這個是很重要和簽署自由貿易協定來肯定其必要性但是這些年臺灣與其他國家洽簽的自由貿易協定的進度緩慢"},{"start":2918.23,"end":2940.71,"text":"宣傳多餘實質、宣傳多年的加入CPTPP跨太平洋夥伴全面進步協定到現在沒有一些具體的進展就連宣稱與關係友好的美國跟日本跟澳洲簽訂FTA還是看不到結果"},{"start":2941.67,"end":2950.715,"text":"那我請問部長你認為加入區域經濟組織簽署自由貿易協定進度的遲緩的原因是到底是什麼當然加入國際的一個區域的經貿的組織然後簽訂自由貿易協定是非常重要的那可以對我們的廠商拓展外銷市場提高競爭力但是我們都進不去啊有關這個部分相關經貿協定的簽署是由行政院經貿談判辦公室來統籌處理"},{"start":2971.446,"end":2999.675,"text":"那如果需要本部參與相關的評估本部也會參加那相關談判的進度呢還是由這個辦公室來統一我知道但是齁只有對外宣傳而已實際上都沒有實質啊到現在都是原地踏步然後每一次講都說有有有那有人家都進去了同事跟我們進去的這些國家都進去了我們還在那裡原地踏步啦參加這些相關組織我想需要一定的努力以及一些時間"},{"start":3001.256,"end":3020.616,"text":"來溝通跟協調是那個遙遙無期啦部長如果因為ECFA終止其他這個經貿協定又遙遙無期那我請問政府要怎樣來協助這些遙遙遇罪的產業面對這種看不到前方那去找該走的路你認為我們要怎麼做"},{"start":3021.697,"end":3025.72,"text":"根委員報告,其實台灣的相關的產業具有這個關鍵性的一個地位的,譬如說半導體、自動訊產品,那我們要鞏固我們這方面的一個競爭優勢。這是對於有優勢的部分,我們要鞏固我們的競爭優勢。那對於比較目前來說傳統產業,而且它要,裡面要照顧很多員工,對不對?"},{"start":3044.612,"end":3048.677,"text":"政府要輔導他們做一些產業的升級我剛剛提過就是像數位的轉型跟淨零的轉型這樣他們在國際上的競爭力可以提升讓他們可以取得比較好的一個地位然後擴展他們的一些市場這是主要的做法"},{"start":3060.612,"end":3079.918,"text":"我再請教因為財政部阮次長上個月中表示美台相關法案還是要等美國國會通過那台灣方面一直努力的推動但是財政部無法預估美國國會的整個時程那我請問部長因為"},{"start":3082.351,"end":3086.281,"text":"臺美租稅協定的推動時程,你認為這一屆的國會改選前有沒有機會通過?"},{"start":3091.633,"end":3115.172,"text":"因為他們馬上在11月5號就要舉行總統大選也要進行參眾兩院國會的改選短短4個多月的時間部長你認為臺美租稅協定能夠列為美國優先的法案這些急迫性的法案敢在118屆就是在美國這一屆的任期結束前來通過嗎?你認為可不可能?"},{"start":3115.832,"end":3129.369,"text":"跟委員報告臺美避免所得稅雙重協定這個ADTA的一個法案他是包裹在一個大的法案裡面但是兩黨的國會議員對我們這個法案並沒有不同意見只是包裹法案裡面有一個國內的稅法他們有意見那他們不過我們都過不了啦"},{"start":3134.174,"end":3150.42,"text":"這個部分當然我們的駐美代表處一直和國會議員這邊在溝通看看有沒有什麼其他的方式那我想這個部分因為也碰到今年11月美國的一個大選但是我們也並沒有那這一屆沒有過的話還要再等下一屆又重新開始是不是這樣子"},{"start":3151.661,"end":3152.902,"text":"會不會台灣恐怕會面臨119屆美國國會重新檢視協定的機率會比較大?"},{"start":3168.22,"end":3169.661,"text":"下一屆會不會這樣子?部長,像這些租稅協定"},{"start":3189.992,"end":3210.904,"text":"我們為了保障我們的產業能夠很順利的能夠生存我認為這個很重要因為人家免稅我們要稅你說怎麼競爭大家心知肚明部長因為行政院禮拜一召開新清安的全面檢討會議會後卻說相關對策的決議"},{"start":3216.892,"end":3236.697,"text":"定案後將會適時對外來說明那請問部長新青安黃袋衍生催化草黃亂象行政院是不是打算踩煞車有沒有委員報告對新青安是不是引起相關的人頭或轉租戶這個部分我們的供股行庫第一個會強化貸錢的一個爭審"},{"start":3239.005,"end":3253.167,"text":"以及代後的追蹤管理另外對新代戶要求他提具切結書那至於目前來說各部會在盤點相關的一些做法以後行政院會做政策性的決定那我想很快的決定以後也會對外做說明那個部長"},{"start":3254.389,"end":3283.022,"text":"因為上個禮拜宣布說八大航庫新青安黃帶三項共識是不是太過嚴苛所以受到關切因而打算暫緩執行會不會這樣子跟委員報告新青安政策的利益是良善的也就是協助沒有自有住宅房或者親戚朋友們買房然後政府幫他一把這個利益是絕對好但是不能成為炒作房地產以及做轉租或借人頭是不能做這個工具部長"},{"start":3288.083,"end":3305.708,"text":"央行表示確實去調查宮古行庫的新清安房貸主要有些房產是在父母的名下但是以子女作為借款人那我請問部長就央行調查宮古行庫的結果移民瞭解這樣的比重高不高"},{"start":3307.237,"end":3329.322,"text":"到目前為止我們央行的比重高不高並沒有就了解並沒有這個情形啊房產沒有這種情形的因為他的母親他的父母如果有房子根本就不能適用清安貸款可以啦父母有房子捏他是父母的名字登記在父母的名下的話那他是不行的啊對"},{"start":3332.106,"end":3350.367,"text":"部長,你要了解清楚一點啦!不是阿,他的登記在父母的名下那就不能拿去銀行貸阿是啊,如果現在這個父母他自己本身有房子然後自己父母又去買一間房子因為他在父母的名下但是以子女作為借款人"},{"start":3352.25,"end":3369.438,"text":"以子女﹑子女作為借款人﹑借款人跟抵押人應該﹑應該是﹑對﹑可以不一樣﹑但是這個部分﹑你要去瞭解清楚啦﹑部長﹑目前並沒有,央行並沒有這種情形﹑你們這樣不能換款是吧﹑對啊﹑"},{"start":3375.693,"end":3386.607,"text":"就是說我們跟公股銀行了解結果目前的新清安貸款並沒有借款人是侄女而單保的房產登記在父母的名下並沒有這樣的情形"},{"start":3388.128,"end":3414.52,"text":"因為黃代檢討經濟措施限制黃代補貼政策多種管道的政策推動下導致信用膨脹的危機對於這些投機心態高而且占政府補貼黃代便宜的人頭戶你認為是不是應該無條件溯及既往來追究還是才可能達到嚇阻這些草房的外風還是要考量個案的狀況予以斟酌"},{"start":3416.312,"end":3433.559,"text":"對於不符合清安貸款而是屬於人頭或轉租這個情形,一定會依照規定來做出來?依規定?對,一定依照規定。它就不符合資格,但是它冒用這樣的資格就不符合。我是認為在這方面你們要好好的去處理啦。是。好,謝謝委員。謝謝林德福委員的諮詢,接著我們請吳秉樂委員諮詢。"},{"start":3453.359,"end":3456.041,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部專部長委員好不想找齁剛剛延續剛剛那個話題齁因為我們中華民國台灣的不動產是財登記主義公事公信是所以如果你是要用清單貸款的話那你一定是"},{"start":3481.731,"end":3506.484,"text":"這個自己或是配偶或是你的子女40歲以下然後沒有房子的才可以適用清安貸款他爸爸媽媽譬如說這個年輕人35歲他的爸爸媽媽也沒有房子這是另外一件事但是這個年輕人本身他跟他的配偶以及他的子女不能夠有房子可以適用清安"},{"start":3507.608,"end":3532.926,"text":"然後因為清安是購買房屋的房屋貸款所以以購買房屋的登記人符不符合這個條件才能夠借款給他啦所以基本上不存在說年輕人符合清安然後買房子登記在爸爸媽媽名下不可以啦因為這樣子的話就不符合清安的規定啦"},{"start":3533.695,"end":3539.96,"text":"現在會發生爭議的就是說同財共居假設有一個年輕人22歲然後他本身沒有要買房子但是他爸爸媽媽想替他買房子為他買房子啦所以就用這個清歡去幫他買一戶"},{"start":3560.339,"end":3562.901,"text":"當然是買這個年輕人的名字但是他把它租給別人啦"},{"start":3588.746,"end":3589.887,"text":"這個部分公國航庫已經在做清理了"},{"start":3606.802,"end":3632.836,"text":"對於高風險的案件我們會逐步去了解也就是說像這種情況其實他有出租就不符合清安貸款因為清安貸款是希望年輕人買了以後自住使用是啦但是這個中間的確會存在爭議啦我舉一個例子我本來要自住啊可是我本來22歲大學畢業準備要自住在新莊我的選居新莊假設我是假設齁我買了一副房子結果後來在新竹的台積電找到工作"},{"start":3634.087,"end":3654.565,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":3655.373,"end":3674.42,"text":"那你這個配套要更完整要更有其他的想法我們現在因為房價高漲政府宣誓要打草房所以就很多人有道理也好沒道理也好都把這個理由都歸注到這個房地產上面來而且其實我覺得已經在我來看我也替年輕人覺得很惋惜"},{"start":3682.776,"end":3709.697,"text":"因為現在因為清安貸款的原因清安貸款的補助有限嘛那所以在大台北地區的房子就越蓋越小間啊現在都蓋到十幾平了扣掉公車跟套房一樣啊其實那個居住的空間真的已經是跟上一代的爸爸媽媽更上一代的阿公阿嬤的那個空間小很多了欸有時候覺得說哇這個這個平宿的房子怎麼住人啊怎麼有辦法一個好好的將來年輕人也會想要成家嘛"},{"start":3710.838,"end":3737.866,"text":"他如果娶了太太兩個好不好生了一個小寶貝或兩個小寶貝那一間房子實在真的是不夠住當然這是另外的話但是因為就是有這個補貼使得再加上你們那個豪宅的那個政策金額多少以上央行的政策金額多少以上貸款成數下降等等還為了銷售的方便所以這些"},{"start":3738.993,"end":3760.289,"text":"不動產的這些規劃建設公司房子越蓋越小間那個每一間的坪數都很小捏那某一個角度也是為了政府的政策我為了要配合清安啊那你清安能夠補貼的金額就是這樣啊所以我除了一部分的自備管之外其他的貸款就要適用清安所以我那個房子的總價就設計一千出頭萬那在大台北地區"},{"start":3764.585,"end":3769.175,"text":"臺北市當然不太可能新北市像我那個地方那房子大概就是十幾二十平欸"},{"start":3772.368,"end":3774.99,"text":"其實這裏面有很多的問題現在年輕人就算這樣子清單貸款要買房子通常他的前面的這個自備款家長如果有能力也會給予幫忙"},{"start":3799.395,"end":3827.893,"text":"沒有錯,這是家長會多少會給但是這個就會演發出世代的這個阿的好命阿嘛被網友講得最難聽的說會投胎的好命阿就爸爸媽媽可以給的這個幫忙很大所以他很年輕就能買房子阿如果本身的家境本身就沒有那麼好的他要買房子就變得比較困難阿這比較心理之下就會變成一個大家心理的不平衡阿"},{"start":3829.144,"end":3829.487,"text":"這也是會研發社會問題"},{"start":3832.628,"end":3858.56,"text":"所以有關房屋的這個有或是住宅的部分政府其實是多管齊下比如說新建社會住宅或者採取包租貸款還有公益出租人的出租方式那都是用租的方式當然用買的方式那政府就幫他一把在徵期的過程中可以幫助部長你有沒有想過我們台灣跟日本比起來一樣是東亞國家的這個年輕人日本人租屋的比例之高"},{"start":3859.44,"end":3865.378,"text":"那台灣人自由住宅要買房子的比例這麼高你有沒有覺得這兩中間的差異是什麼?"},{"start":3866.971,"end":3889.777,"text":"可能我們一直有一個有土私有財這樣的一個觀念吧那你有沒有統計過台灣的自有住宅的比例高達多少?蠻高的大概數字我不太記得70幾%快要80%啦對差不多有這樣的一個數字自有住宅因為大家覺得有自有的住宅可能會覺得很好所以要講清楚喔這個立場要講清楚是打草房不是打房喔因為你如果打房喔80%將近80%的國人有自有住宅捏"},{"start":3893.823,"end":3911.946,"text":"所以其實政府的政策是在打草房就是不能做投機的行為但是就是說並不是在打房因為房屋市場是要健康依序的一個發展我講一個開玩笑的啦我這一下這個是有點小開玩笑但是也是事實全世界打房最成功的政權是哪裡你知道嗎中國中國共產黨把他的房子在中國打房折價腰斬一半都還沒人要所以"},{"start":3923.588,"end":3944.914,"text":"經濟的發展從健康的角度來看它本來就會伴隨著一點點的物價膨脹我以前在這個地方說過每年的CPI如果是2%是現在世界總體經濟學家認為最好的超過3是不要因為那是通貨膨脹低於1也不要因為會通貨緊縮啦"},{"start":3947.817,"end":3971.519,"text":"中國現在就面臨通貨緊縮的問題通貨緊縮比通貨膨脹更可怕 為什麼因為通貨膨脹是我現在不趕快去消費明天、後天、明年、後年物價越來越高我怕我買不起現在台灣有一點點這樣的預期心理可是通貨緊縮更可怕是我就要忍住不消費因為我越晚消費越便宜"},{"start":3972.611,"end":3978.756,"text":"所以整個消費會急速的盪下來盪下來之後還更惡性循環我今天買100塊的下個禮拜會變成99塊下個月會變成98塊到了年底剩95塊明年剩90塊那我是不是就盡量忍我越晚消費就賺越多啊所以偷貨緊縮會帶來整個經濟的窒息量"},{"start":3997.405,"end":4024.27,"text":"中國現在是這樣的狀況你有沒有看到這個稅很可怕喔中國的稅中央地方今年度到現在5月減了5.91%换算成人民幣他是少收了2點多兆的這個稅金當然中國的經濟量體非常的大但是你想想看這樣子前面5個月就減收這樣給他算過他可能今年會"},{"start":4025.646,"end":4047.202,"text":"整個撿起來有可能撿到將近10兆的稅金喔那是非常非常驚人的數字那如果這個不趕快解決,過兩年他的經濟真的可能會崩潰啊那再加上他現在面臨的國際上面的這些制裁的壓力在美國對於他又要支持俄羅斯去侵略烏克蘭歐盟、美國都對他要動手"},{"start":4048.775,"end":4074.077,"text":"所以坦白講我很看不好啦他如果渡過這個硬著陸都很有問題啊所以我的意思說處理這些事情都是要很小心的要一環一環而且觀念要正確有人看到CPI說怎麼會物價上漲然後就隨便扣帽子說怎麼物價都漲然後工資都不漲明明工資就有漲他看不見"},{"start":4076.158,"end":4077.439,"text":"謝謝委員的諮詢 接著我們請賴世保委員諮詢"},{"start":4119.234,"end":4124.355,"text":"謝謝主席及各位先進有請財政部的莊部長有請莊部長委員好部長你好今年的稅收看起來還是超收你增加稅漲了21%現在來講大概這個"},{"start":4146.653,"end":4158.786,"text":"民目上的是增加,民目上是1590億那現在禁止到五月份是1590億我到四月底是1156億"},{"start":4162.256,"end":4185.019,"text":"從第1個稅到4月底165億都增加中所稅今年增加了大概10%左右從6千億到7千億銀所稅稍微差一點看起來這個到現在為止半年了這個還不到半年都增加了對不對增加稅增加的蠻多的增加21%"},{"start":4188.201,"end":4188.861,"text":"財政委員報告財政委員報告"},{"start":4213.849,"end":4226.012,"text":"比我們當時在預估的時候的一個日均量到3500億是高很多那我想這個部分因為在預估計上我們原來預估是一天是3500億日均量是3500億那現在大概平均數達到4900多億有時候都會超過5000億所以這個部分的股市的一個熱絡稅帶動了證交稅的一個收取的一個數額"},{"start":4242.236,"end":4265.642,"text":"所以是比去年增加所以到今年我可以增加多少今年如果您是指整體還是整體整體來說目前看起來整體來說以中央數來說到5月底我們是增加了比去年增加561億那中央數是增加485億比去年增加那以整體來看的話今年要達到我們的稅收的預算數應該是可以達得到"},{"start":4266.722,"end":4283.194,"text":"對,可以答應到可是還要到9月還有一個影鎖稅的一個站腳稅款進來那也跟委員報告影鎖稅在今年的稅收呢到5月底為止事實上是比去年少的是比去年少在影鎖稅的部分全國數是2923億比去年少了400多億比去年少400多億因為112年的"},{"start":4291.46,"end":4305.585,"text":"所以我能不能這樣估你5到5月底為止大概增加500多億所以一個月就增加100多億如果加上9月份的暫繳款加起來今年可望"},{"start":4307.208,"end":4333.169,"text":"超徵大概兩千億差不多當然我今年是今年會今年的預算數達成是沒有問題應該也會超過至於超過多少我覺得要到下半年會比較明朗你剛剛講五月底為止是五百多嘛那我就平均就一個月就一百多啊那九月份你要個佔繳款啊就這樣把你加起來啊差不多一千五到兩千之間差不多這樣子嘛"},{"start":4334.138,"end":4337.54,"text":"所以你們更應該多一點錢給地方政府啦好 我講今天的題目喔你們今天有一條要修這個所得稅法 有一條"},{"start":4361.063,"end":4362.904,"text":"請我們副書長來說明"},{"start":4385.666,"end":4413.172,"text":"報告委員,這個條文是從以前就是這樣的規定,主要的原因,各位有報告,我跟委員報告緣由之後,然後我們討論的時候,大家再來看看怎麼處理,它主要的原因是因為我們說的政府機關,它的責任它有,譬如我們變預算,假設它被處罰,它還是要變預算,左口袋右口袋的問題,所以當時我們對政府機關的部分是用行政責任,簡單講就是上級機關對下級機關,它繼續"},{"start":4415.572,"end":4415.872,"text":"其實清安專案"},{"start":4443.805,"end":4445.269,"text":"這個是當初賴清德總統在選總統的時候"},{"start":4448.854,"end":4475.916,"text":"他提出了兩個矛盾的一個政策一個屯房稅2.0不為壓力你看那時候我們在議場提了十幾個版本財政部硬不同意不要不要不要結果那間的一聲令下就推過了屯房稅2.0抑制炒房結果現在又推一個清安專案現在火熱的不得了到現在為止你看關谷的航空就帶出去了4700多億"},{"start":4478.357,"end":4500.572,"text":"主要是什麼?主要你看環管權限從30年到40年寬限期就是只有付利息不要付本金的3到5年這個剛剛幾個委員講我都覺得我馬上想到會不會投機啊你不管父母父母即便有5棟房子他可以用他小孩的名字再買一棟"},{"start":4502.441,"end":4512.238,"text":"再買一棟然後去做什麼事情都可能請問你啊清安貸款他買的房子以後能不能賣"},{"start":4513.854,"end":4518.135,"text":"姓安貸款他買了房子以後是可以移轉﹖可以移轉啊!住長你找房啊!囤房稅2.0他的目的是讓我們的房屋稅的持有稅合理化目的也是希望房屋不要空置而應該做有效利用同時我們進入中國規劃"},{"start":4535.379,"end":4539.881,"text":"但是他可以賣啊!他一樣可以賣啊!比如說這個爸爸已經有五棟房子了,你看到這個有氣可乘,他又用兒子的名字講"},{"start":4557.811,"end":4558.031,"text":"來!那個部長啊!"},{"start":4585.905,"end":4608.335,"text":"我都擔心以後有設房貸的危機喔他以後還款40年都還不出來的這是另外一個問題喔委員我想齁其實清安貸款第一個拉長的貸款期限然後寬限期5年其實青年朋友們在買這個房子在寬限期裡面他如果有節於自己賺的錢比如說達到年終獎金他可以事先先去把一些本金還掉"},{"start":4609.696,"end":4613.981,"text":"以後他每個月還3萬到6萬每個月還他的財務可以做規劃他可以把自己年齡獎金先去還本金 並不是都這麼極致你可以想他未來一個月還3萬 還4萬 還5萬"},{"start":4632.18,"end":4638.262,"text":"我比較擔心的是這裡面4700多位就是公家、航空還有民間的火的不得了有多少人拿去炒房拿這個去投機啊"},{"start":4660.507,"end":4660.607,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":4693.068,"end":4718.819,"text":"這是你回我的文有關你加熱菸我一直很在意這個然後你回出來了說台北關數量2687沒有電子載具高雄關、台中關、台北關都有加熱菸還有加熱菸的載具國庫署啊你們抓私菸抓私酒不抓加熱菸勒"},{"start":4721.038,"end":4728.791,"text":"有委員在總書信就提到了因為加勒園氾濫!現在任何人都有人在抽加勒園!立法院也是有人在抽!"},{"start":4731.756,"end":4755.67,"text":"委員報告,加熱菸它要經過健康風險評估才可以販售跟製造所以它在市面上是違反這個戒害防治法那由衛福部會去做查詢一件都沒有,因為衛福部的資料是一件都沒有因為它沒有給它過沒過,一件都沒有過所以就跟電子菸一樣它是違法的違法的,對違法的啊你們為什麼不抓?"},{"start":4758.55,"end":4771.06,"text":"他違反煙害防治法那是衛福部他會去做查緝的不是你們不是要抓你們抓私煙抓私酒加熱你們抓不抓不抓他是不是煙啊我問你加熱是不是煙"},{"start":4774.494,"end":4774.634,"text":"主席"},{"start":4791.42,"end":4811.871,"text":"你不抓?委員跟委員報告他是違反煙害防治法的規定所以會有衛福部去做查緝衛福部也不抓,這不是他們管的,我問了衛福部是你們管的啊?國務署管的啊?所以各位看清楚了加勒研現在還一堆放在"},{"start":4813.146,"end":4842.447,"text":"自由貿易港區裡面準備想進來他已經放半年了這個也是經過你們同意進來的他只是處放在那一邊但是他不能進來放了半年了放了半年了他是處放在那邊為什麼放半年放那麼久呢因為你們不抓然後現在人家委員總執行就講了我們現在的淹捐啊淹稅我們已經收了100億就是因為大家都愁加熱言你們抓不到你們也沒有認真去抓"},{"start":4843.561,"end":4865.071,"text":"我就是最後一句話,你這部分你們去思考一下要不要去取締啊?要不要去抓啊?要不要?你們啊?呃,這個屬於陰害防治法的規範範圍,也跟委員報告在這個貿易港區的加熱菸它其實還是不能進到我們關內這邊來,我們海關還是會管的這地方都有抽啊,大關內在抽啊,梁文傑也抽,這個盤門岸也抽不是嗎?"},{"start":4866.012,"end":4870.761,"text":"這個怎麼會 早就叫愛媒會啊 怎麼會 講的這個樣子講的這個樣子請部長 會後跟大委員說明一下我們會後再跟委員報告"},{"start":4878.676,"end":4891.702,"text":"衛福部說這不關我的事,結果財政部不關我的事,但是呢他就在你我旁邊,這個很奇怪的事呢,好不好,這個你給我回這個文喔我們再跟衛福部來溝通,謝謝跟衛福部積極溝通,接著我們請賴市長委員諮詢,接著我們請賴會員委員諮詢"},{"start":4903.218,"end":4908.225,"text":"謝謝主席,請財政部部長還有我們的互稅署署長、財政資訊中心張主任"},{"start":4916.206,"end":4933.446,"text":"委員好部長早安我想就是針對的5月底那個我們的報稅已經都結束了那就是今年的那個所得稅的稅收是不是符合財政部的一個議期那我們知道說今年你的義孤就是說"},{"start":4934.767,"end":4945.166,"text":"在政交稅到事業底你收到了1156億那顯然好像是比之前還那個提升了那黃帝合一稅在事業底是165億"},{"start":4947.529,"end":4966.604,"text":"那中守稅在事業底是7000億那營守稅在事業底是9000億那其實在我們目前看到的這些數字他有沒有落實到扣繳的一個義務所以我想在這裡請教就是部長"},{"start":4967.987,"end":4984.891,"text":"那你今年的所得稅的稅入是不是符合你財政部議期呢?跟委員報告所得稅在中所稅的部分到5月底的為止全國的中所稅是2363億那是比去年有增加"},{"start":4985.111,"end":5004.923,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":5005.223,"end":5008.326,"text":"銀索稅的數字就是比去年減少的是負成長的,所以跟我們的"},{"start":5033.328,"end":5033.489,"text":"當時預估是很接近的"},{"start":5036.687,"end":5063.008,"text":"是,好,那顯然還是還是有一些是有落差的對,那比如說像您落差比較大的就是政交稅政交稅到5月底我們收了1156億那比去年同期是增加了507億那最主要是因為今年你也知道那個我們人口均量都接近5000億平均來說都接近5000億政交稅的一個增加表示就是說股市是熱絡的是熱絡的,是"},{"start":5064.369,"end":5091.163,"text":"所以就是說大家其實基本上普遍有賺到錢大家有多餘的錢可以投資不管是就是說我們從中國撤回來的一個資金還是我們就是整個科技產業就是賺到了很多錢那事實上就是說這個超過你的預算數那我們財政部在每年的編列預算裡頭會不會趨向於保守"},{"start":5092.143,"end":5112.717,"text":"為什麼會跟你提這個問題?因為如果是一個保守的一個預算數的一個預估的話其實是會影響到我們整體國家的就是在財務上的一個規劃那這個問題有沒有辦法就是我們去做什麼樣的一個修正呢?"},{"start":5114.764,"end":5133.274,"text":"謝謝委員的指教那對於有關財政部每次去預估所謂的預算數好像跟時增數每次到時增數的時候就有一段差距那也跟委員報告第一個因為預算數的編列到時增數的一個整個時增完成大概要差到將近一年半到兩年的時間比如說我們現在在估114年的整體的一個稅收可是"},{"start":5137.296,"end":5158.603,"text":"現在在估跟明年國際政經情勢有什麼樣的變化其實我們會盡量的去掌握或但是有的時候會有落差但是我們也不能因為這個理由不去精進所以呢我們在112年的時候就開始成立就是估113年的預算就成立專案小組你最重要就是財政部要可以預估到未來"},{"start":5161.245,"end":5172.316,"text":"除了財政部之外,我們也會邀請中央銀行、國發會等相關機關以及專家學者一起來探討每一個稅務它會影響的因子來做一個更切實的估測。接著請教護稅署署長,台灣的少子化、高齡化的趨勢已經擋不住了。"},{"start":5183.746,"end":5211.483,"text":"國發會最新的一個發布人口的一個推估從2022年到2070年的一個報告裡頭其實台灣即將正式步入超高齡的一個社會那接著要跟你探討胡老比跟申報的狀況不曾正比今年的申報戶數跟數額是不是有增加顯然看起來好像沒有增加沒有增加是什麼原因呢是不是請署長來那個回應這個問題"},{"start":5213.251,"end":5236.001,"text":"先跟委員報告112年度的所得稅申報約5月才剛辦完所以目前我們沒辦法掌握到底申報長照特別扣除的戶數是增加或減少那跟委員特別說明的是說因為我們申報長照特別扣除它必須符合幾個條件第一個當然要符合衛福部所證的身心失能資格第二個它有一個排付條款"},{"start":5236.801,"end":5237.682,"text":"我們看得出來就是說整個申報長照的這個條件太嚴苛"},{"start":5252.744,"end":5276.153,"text":"這個太嚴苛其實不是你們的一個問題這個是那個衛福部的一個問題可是當初在政策的一個溝通裡頭你們在一定是有共同討論嘛負稅組跟財政部然後跟這個衛福部共同去討論那你這個條件這麼嚴苛其實就是說為什麼我要跟你講說進入超高齡社會"},{"start":5277.173,"end":5291.765,"text":"那顯然大家就是說我家裡頭有需要這個胡老鼻的結果跟我的就是整個那個扣除的一個那個申報的一個扣除額裡頭我沒有得到照顧啊"},{"start":5292.626,"end":5313.955,"text":"所以這個是我跟你目前就是跟你那個提出來的況且通盤的情況一直在發生所以有很多人是看得到吃不到因為你的條件很嚴苛啊所以接著我再跟你探討一個就是說我們的租金租金的一個持續的一個上漲今年的租金扣除了申報的情況怎麼樣"},{"start":5316.79,"end":5339.104,"text":"因為今年剛到然後還看不出來,不好意思那其實台灣的整體的稅收都是扣到誰?扣到這些打工的人,扣到這些公務人員,扣到這些財產就是說你的那個整個報稅都是不能閃到旁邊的人,因為跑不掉嘛"},{"start":5339.924,"end":5364.778,"text":"那跑不掉的時候如果就是說黃東不給報的話那其實我們都沒有辦法看到一個正確的一個就是整體就是為什麼住金持續的一個上漲我們抓不到一個問題嘛就是因為黃東黃東認為就是說我如果報了以後那我還是扣扣在黃柯的身上是不是這樣的一個情況其實我已經要到資料啦"},{"start":5365.778,"end":5365.918,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":5382.591,"end":5407.076,"text":"就是要付那個很多的一個黃珠費用所以這個有沒有什麼好一點的方式可以就是說來做一個調整就是比較好的一個優化的一個稅制可以讓納稅人回歸到常軌這個是我要跟署長做一個討論的那我也希望就是說署長你可以就是會後提出一個比較好的"},{"start":5408.936,"end":5412.099,"text":"我這裡要請教財政中心有沒有辦法用納稅的一個大數據去找出這些弱勢家族的一個需要"},{"start":5435.46,"end":5443.927,"text":"主任,我想就是說這個2022年老人家庭的收入是77萬,這個77萬你怎麼算出來的?這個應該是依據他的年齡來做統計,那我剛才有講這個"},{"start":5456.624,"end":5473.588,"text":"什麼叫依照他的年齡老人家庭幾歲叫做老人家庭這邊應該是這個主計總署的這個調查所以他的那個來源計算可能要先問他們他們怎麼界定這個老人家庭的範圍所以你不清楚"},{"start":5473.948,"end":5499.183,"text":"是是是那你是資訊中心的主任是是所以你在盤算很多的一個資訊的時候你不知道他的一個他的所有調查的一個條件嗎你應該會去了解啊我們這邊是以稅的這個條件來做了解啦那像這個老人服務的部分好以稅的話你以稅的話那當然就是說好這個老人家庭的話一定就是"},{"start":5500.043,"end":5508.735,"text":"有領是領業退的然後還有就是繼續還在領薪水的一個是沒有薪水收入的不是不是這些項目嗎"},{"start":5512.375,"end":5530.559,"text":"所以你告訴我說這個是主席總署調查的所以我要問國花會怎麼會是這樣的一個回答呢?委員這個部分我們是不是會後第一個我們再跟主席總署了解然後再跟委員做一個報告好不好這個部分我們再了解這個數據所以部長其實針對的這個問題我是說我們沒有辦法就是"},{"start":5535.06,"end":5561.087,"text":"去做一個財稅的一個大數據我們這一個大數據就是可以完整的提供提供給我們就是跨部會的每一個部會然後讓他們在政策的一個奠定可以更精準是的我想我們財資中心有相關的一個數據那做一些加值的運用也是很重要那至於委員這邊所執行的這個事項是不是容我們再進一步的去了解以後再跟委員做報告"},{"start":5561.747,"end":5577.753,"text":"那對於剛剛委員所關心的一個租金支出的一個所得稅裡面的扣除其實從113年開始實施我們的租金支出已經轉到為特別扣除額所以不會再被所謂的標準扣除額給蓋住所以未來他會專門在特別扣除額給扣除"},{"start":5579.153,"end":5590.186,"text":"你跟我都非常清楚其實就是貧富不均然後通膨的狀況越來越嚴重那如果我們沒有一個財稅的大數據給每一個跨部會的那個單位的話其實我們訂出來的一個稅者會讓"},{"start":5597.615,"end":5598.435,"text":"謝謝大會委員委員的質詢,請接著我們請嚴寬恒委員質詢"},{"start":5630.311,"end":5633.814,"text":"主席各位練習官員主席我想請財政部專部長委員好部長好"},{"start":5643.474,"end":5661.747,"text":"部長,我們的所得稅法,剛剛我做提案說明的時候也都有提到,我們是採扣繳制度,包含營利事業負責人、機關、團體、治安人都是扣繳義務人。在所得發生的時候,依照規定的扣繳率繳交稅款。"},{"start":5665.008,"end":5687.733,"text":"當前,扣角義務人的制度存在有一定的局限性。有些應當承擔扣角義務的機關沒有被涵蓋,導致稅款的扣角不全或漏角的現象。為了使扣角義務人的義務及責任更符合四則一致原則,"},{"start":5689.793,"end":5715.081,"text":"本席認為應將行政法人、破產財團之管理人等應徵為扣繳醫務人。行政法人作為國家及地方自治團體之外由中央事業主管機關為執行特定公共事務依法設立之公法人,具有專業性以及一定的公信力。"},{"start":5716.341,"end":5743.01,"text":"業務活動往往涉及大筆的資金流動將行政法人納入扣繳義務人的範圍將有助於提高稅收的覆蓋率跟準確性將破產財團之管理人納入為扣繳義務人是因為管理人在管理資產跟債務的時候涉及的經濟活動也可能會產生稅款將其列為扣繳義務人可以確保"},{"start":5744.23,"end":5764.839,"text":"稅收的部分可以及時的繳納,避免因為破產程序的複雜性導致稅收的流失。部長你認不認同本席將行政法人及破產財團制管理人把它徵為扣款的一個扣繳義務人?"},{"start":5765.798,"end":5784.512,"text":"是,謝謝委員這個部分其實就能夠真的掌握到有關的稅源跟讓扣繳制度更為落實我們認同委員的一個看法然後也競表贊同好,謝謝部長再來就請教稅收的部分因為報稅已經結束結束了那最近的財政報告個人所得稅"},{"start":5786.397,"end":5786.557,"text":"請部長說明"},{"start":5811.137,"end":5817.823,"text":"跟委員報告直到5月底我們全國稅收的總數有1兆3263億這是全國的一個稅到5月底為止那中央的實徵數大概有8980億到目前為止大概都是達成總預算達成我們原來預算數的40%那在今年5月份的所得稅的部分呢中所稅的實徵數全國數2363億"},{"start":5836.88,"end":5844.484,"text":"比去年增加了303億,至於屬於中央部分的是1922億,比去年增加176億,但是在營所稅的部分是比去年下滑的,就是說在全國的部分是2923億,比去年少了447億,在中央屬於中央的營所稅是2630億"},{"start":5857.089,"end":5876.764,"text":"比去年減少了402億,大概目前的一個稅收狀況是這樣那目前來說整個稅收成長最多的大概還是正交稅因為日成交量的一個擴張在接近5000億再加上天數比去年同期增加了6天所以比去年我們到目前為止正交稅收了是1156億到5月底"},{"start":5879.413,"end":5888.142,"text":"比去年同期增加507億那跟委員報告就是說在今年的所得稅的申報部分我們中所稅大概是佔85%是採取網路的申報總申報件數中所稅是685萬件"},{"start":5895.989,"end":5914.364,"text":"85%採取網路申報,尤其手機報稅的建築更是成長,也就是說我們在手機報稅的部分讓民眾可以更方便,因為大家現在都有手機嘛,更便利,所以運用上成長了很多。這是跟委員報告。另外呢,如果今年的稅收會比預算數增加的話,"},{"start":5914.924,"end":5914.944,"text":"議員鄭寬恒"},{"start":5937.642,"end":5965.063,"text":"我們還了1158億也就是說這樣部分的該還的債先還也可以減少我們的債息的支出這是跟委員報告好 謝謝部長部長這個房價高居不下剛剛很多委員都有分決都針對這個新清案的部分來做出一個質詢那現在年輕人買不起房子的這種困境那很多民眾都表示即便他們有穩定的收入還有這個儲蓄但是他們還是難以支付這種"},{"start":5966.284,"end":5989.971,"text":"一般生的房價那讓年輕人無法實現這個購房的一個理想那也影響了整體經濟發展還有社會的穩定財政部推出了新清安貸款那原意是要協助年輕人購屋提供優惠貸款使他們能夠更容易的實現購房夢但是這個政策的過程當中出現一些問題這個不肖人士的一個"},{"start":5992.733,"end":5995.221,"text":"專肉棟、草房、利用人頭戶來做這種買賣。"},{"start":5997.935,"end":6024.811,"text":"反而進一步對高的房價備以政策的初衷為了要反制這些狀況所以財政部6月19日也宣布了這個新清安的安心成家就是三大精進措施那目的是要進一步的完善貸款制度確保真正需要幫助的年輕人能夠受益那有效的抑制投機行為部長可不可以跟我們說明一下這個三大具體措施是什麼"},{"start":6026.759,"end":6038.185,"text":"對於新清安貸款這樣的一個措施它的政策利益是要幫助年輕朋友們他想要買房子那可以運用這個新清安貸款來做一個購屋"},{"start":6039.384,"end":6057.671,"text":"在升息的趨勢當中政府給予相關的一個利息補貼目的就是讓沒有房子住宅使用的年輕人可以買一棟自己的房子來做居住使用但是現在外界有所謂的就是說用人頭戶或者是做轉租這些但不是我們新清安貸款需要"},{"start":6058.491,"end":6082.789,"text":"給予幫助的對象所以我們這個部分供股行庫有進行討論以後包括貸錢要核實的一個查核他是不是有沒有是不是屬於投資或是人頭戶這個身貸模式跟太陽這個部分要加強審核第二個就是要強化貸貨的管理跟積查包等等的一個方式會做那另外如果新的貸戶他必須要提寫切結書告訴他說他是符合"},{"start":6083.297,"end":6100.672,"text":"新清安貸款的各項條件而且不會做出租業不是人頭我想這個部分這個很重要也就是說如果將來他有這樣違反規定的話那所以利息補貼都不做了而且從違反規定起的利息補貼都要追回這個部分是在新清安貸款裡面而我們的供股行庫採取三項的經濟措施我們希望"},{"start":6103.996,"end":6114.829,"text":"要幫助的青年朋友們能真的獲得幫助而不是拿這個來做投機或者是做轉租等等這樣的一個行為並不是新清安貸款要補助的對象"},{"start":6117.359,"end":6137.498,"text":"除此之外,我們各地方政府也開始採取活動,調整房屋稅收的政策,就是所謂的房屋稅收自治條例修正草案,那主要是加重囤房稅率,增加房屋的持有成本,進而抑制投機行為和房價過高。"},{"start":6138.539,"end":6139.5,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6154.474,"end":6180.957,"text":"那我想這個部分鼓勵也是要將這些房子這些房屋可以釋放到市場上讓市場上有這樣子的供應量能緩解房價的壓力那到目前為止大概有全台有7個縣市通過了這些修正草案那這些地方政府都希望透過這些措施能夠逐步的改善市場的供需關係讓房價能夠趨於合理"},{"start":6181.938,"end":6208.522,"text":"我想除了這個地方政府的作為我們希望中央主管機關也是我們財政部、中央部會也是要抑制這種投機行為還有促進房屋市場的健康發展的部分應該要有更積極的作為能夠更積極然後實現一個友善的對年輕人能夠購房的一個夢想讓他們感覺到更友善、更健康的一個環境"},{"start":6209.812,"end":6229.151,"text":"謝謝委員的指教您剛剛提到就是所謂的房屋差別稅率2.0因為從今年7月1日就上路了然後各地方政府都要修正它的自治條例來適用新的房屋稅條例裡面稅率的一些規定那當然我們的友善就是在於如果你是單一只有一間在全國只有一間而且自助使用的話"},{"start":6229.411,"end":6257.022,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":6257.122,"end":6260.065,"text":"好 謝謝部長謝謝委員接下來我們請李燕秀文質詢謝謝昭偉我可不可以請部長我請莊部長"},{"start":6279.83,"end":6293.374,"text":"委員好部長好我相信這一段時間無論是媒體平面大家都在討論你的新清安政策剛才寬恒委員同樣的也是就新清安的政策在做持續的討論但是房價"},{"start":6296.315,"end":6302.179,"text":"越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?"},{"start":6323.3,"end":6344.325,"text":"委員報告你個人感受是這樣嗎我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意你剛才講這幾個的一個到位我想這種因素是非常我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實"},{"start":6345.985,"end":6368.107,"text":"大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法喔"},{"start":6370.308,"end":6388.598,"text":"規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的他也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶"},{"start":6390.479,"end":6396.583,"text":"合準金額1.9兆元2月將近4000戶申請新青安3月6440戶4月6879戶5月越來越高目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來但是申請人越來越多8476戶"},{"start":6413.514,"end":6428.371,"text":"達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年"},{"start":6431.935,"end":6450.02,"text":"因為清安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之青年朋友們貸了清安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新清安是去年八月一號開始我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟"},{"start":6460.262,"end":6460.282,"text":"委員長"},{"start":6484.662,"end":6510.361,"text":"我為什麼要問6月份?我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪要提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少"},{"start":6511.542,"end":6513.263,"text":"那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼部長你懂我的用意嗎所以你現在跟我講什麼你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得"},{"start":6527.711,"end":6546.977,"text":"會後馬上統計然後提供出來部長我知道我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說"},{"start":6554.099,"end":6574.256,"text":"政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來"},{"start":6576.578,"end":6594.821,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":6595.141,"end":6621.714,"text":"過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了就不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較所以我要提的就是說我們希望買到合理價格的房子那對於出租來講年輕人來說我房子買不起你總要讓我"},{"start":6623.194,"end":6652.297,"text":"租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批評批判的地方好那租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租代管是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅土地的取得時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清德的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好"},{"start":6652.757,"end":6666.292,"text":"但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租代管的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應我其實我是不滿意的因為我有計算過就是說"},{"start":6667.674,"end":6675.016,"text":"因為我們目前1萬5的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概10萬6千戶免稅額是1萬5我們稅損差不多是1億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到2萬5千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有4萬3千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少"},{"start":6693.28,"end":6722.72,"text":"但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少"},{"start":6723.9,"end":6745.387,"text":"那你稅損到底有多少因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多你沒有一個數字給我你真的無法說服我所以我就會你跟我講說稅損會增加一億那我就會去問賴清德我就會去問卓榮泰我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個這個這個房東願意投入包租貸款那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受"},{"start":6747.108,"end":6754.637,"text":"這就是另外一個問題嘛 這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要 這就是一個選擇題嘛"},{"start":6762.647,"end":6772.05,"text":"謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五"},{"start":6778.352,"end":6802.856,"text":"你稅損到底會增加多少?有多少部署?部長,我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算、計算這個事情不是壞事,你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義、包住代管跟量可以增加,全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我"},{"start":6803.456,"end":6803.837,"text":"我們是要考慮到這個委員"},{"start":6814.765,"end":6840.27,"text":"委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高、免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啦!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要"},{"start":6841.63,"end":6858.524,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":6859.093,"end":6869.546,"text":"那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有,這一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的"},{"start":6872.591,"end":6899.111,"text":"我提出來只是說全國的房租因為地價的關係不太一樣我希望全國都有更多的誘因加入你包租代管的政策至於決策上怎麼做我覺得跨部會要去協調但是我非常遺憾是這是一個幫助賴清德可以落實我們的社會住宅的政策也讓工具可以更多但是我在這邊苦口婆心講了這麼久"},{"start":6900.912,"end":6919.343,"text":"顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意我絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策"},{"start":6926.167,"end":6950.916,"text":"可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼這都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管"},{"start":6955.477,"end":6956.477,"text":"主席,一樣有請莊部長"},{"start":6984.172,"end":6985.553,"text":"委員好部長好部長我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多了多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年5月底的時增在一兆3263將近於去年總數都增加了861億"},{"start":7007.014,"end":7029.701,"text":"那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長這個財政部能不能把這樣"},{"start":7033.362,"end":7054.805,"text":"整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報了案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件?比例有多少?二年有多少?三年有多少?以此類推。這樣常常換算出來,類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢?還是屬於這個投資客的交易?算得出來嗎?"},{"start":7056.652,"end":7058.854,"text":"為什麼第一次的時候沒有跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議?為什麼?"},{"start":7082.112,"end":7096.148,"text":"你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎"},{"start":7097.928,"end":7110.759,"text":"有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度,原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個,那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期限"},{"start":7115.843,"end":7137.008,"text":"還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期"},{"start":7145.23,"end":7163.737,"text":"關鍵期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。"},{"start":7165.359,"end":7185.766,"text":"那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助8成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長"},{"start":7187.465,"end":7209.714,"text":"所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎"},{"start":7213.581,"end":7232.679,"text":"您也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想"},{"start":7236.051,"end":7258.147,"text":"新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性"},{"start":7260.368,"end":7268.554,"text":"跟委員報告,我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料,然後也會做一些政策決定。沒有,部長,我再問你一次,主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能?這是第一個。第二個,對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能?第三個,對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間?這三點啊,我認為這三點是最有可能的。"},{"start":7285.725,"end":7303.315,"text":"跟委員報告就是說我們新青安就是說剛剛提的這三項要不要做緊縮我覺得這三項對年輕人是非常重要的因為減輕他這個部分利益是良善但是不要因為有一些不好的情況比如說投機的或者是那個藉由而去做緊縮那至於剛剛後面委員就說對您提到這兩項對這個部分其實公私貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部"},{"start":7314.462,"end":7319.723,"text":"公司代還有包括網路啊、集體糾團啊對,所以說現在政府要從這兩部分來進行著手嘛這邊的投資可能性就比較大嘛現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租我跟你講啦,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大啦因為你從買到那個"},{"start":7344.269,"end":7344.689,"text":"部長 你知道嗎?嘿"},{"start":7373.268,"end":7373.909,"text":"五年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊"},{"start":7388.491,"end":7402.781,"text":"對阿 所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛 有人說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理 誰創造出來這個期貨的商品 這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿"},{"start":7405.404,"end":7416.015,"text":"副長,請你去思考一下好不好?思考一下這個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊"},{"start":7421.08,"end":7435.143,"text":"中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?"},{"start":7451.465,"end":7470.323,"text":"不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建籠嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?"},{"start":7474.046,"end":7497.803,"text":"這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法院的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對"},{"start":7502.93,"end":7530.537,"text":"可是跟委員說齁我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4千多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在一千一千五億一千三百萬以下其實大概是一千五百萬以下占百分之七十八你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的"},{"start":7531.357,"end":7548.446,"text":"第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性"},{"start":7549.246,"end":7569.124,"text":"第二個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚"},{"start":7576.61,"end":7581.073,"text":"否則政府的政策本來是良法美意被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你可以分區域1500"},{"start":7593.743,"end":7593.843,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員"},{"start":7611.674,"end":7630.84,"text":"該去處理建商還是要處理建商啊?該去跟網路的這些行為裡頭該怎麼約束還是約束啊?最後我要問一下關務署這兩天你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從稅金25000條件到35000本席跟你肯定的第二個部分有關於這個"},{"start":7632.14,"end":7647.345,"text":"網路詐騙、退稅的問題您也有做出一個不用公正費用的部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席哪你苟同"},{"start":7648.385,"end":7665.914,"text":"因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟您提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限"},{"start":7668.806,"end":7695.328,"text":"對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成你們有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊"},{"start":7697.609,"end":7698.25,"text":"民眾申請退稅,政府應該要多少時間以內退稅?"},{"start":7715.566,"end":7716.206,"text":"接著我們請羅民財、羅昭偉質詢"},{"start":7744.211,"end":7765.898,"text":"主席 各位委員初列席 歡迎 大家好主席 可否請 先國庫署好了 署長 陳柏成陳署長 呃 陳署長好 謝謝陳署長 委員長 問眾矚目 大家都在期待新任的"},{"start":7767.37,"end":7794.407,"text":"陳署長可以為財化法來多多規劃來運籌維握因為你第一線工作的你應該要做好最好的準備讓財政部長他可以了解情況因為如同你我都知我們的部長他過去的經驗是在國產的部分比較賢俗稅的部分"},{"start":7796.181,"end":7814.061,"text":"財政的部分你就應該要好好來闢話一下請問現在20個版本裡面你比較熟悉哪一個版本那已經開始從運籌帷幄有開始在規劃國庫署心理的版本了嗎?"},{"start":7815.742,"end":7840.236,"text":"各位委員報告現在的20個版本都有各自他們想要達成的目標比如說有的希望垂直分配的金額要放大那有的是則希望說在水平分配的時候可以用人口的比例來處理但是不管哪一個方案其實都會存在一些問題那尤其是水平分配的部分"},{"start":7841.196,"end":7867.716,"text":"一定是要經過各個利害關係人就是各個地方政府他們要有一個共識共識,你開始跟22縣市有接觸了嗎?感謝昭偉這邊上次在立法院已經辦過了一次公聽會需不需要再來一次昭偉上次在做那個條文討論的時候昭偉也有再提示說您還會再辦"},{"start":7868.857,"end":7883.001,"text":"好,沒問題,可是到現在沒有人說希望我辦我問了好多委員,如果召委可以,郭召委也可以辦啊就是我們集思廣益嘛,大家多多來提不過你剛剛講的22縣市看似複雜,其實是很簡單的啦這22個裡面,就垂直分配來說,有問題的是哪幾個"},{"start":7893.896,"end":7916.855,"text":"如果以地方政府來說的話因為他們都只考量到地方自己的施政目標而已所以當然會希望中央的財源下放的金額越大越好但是我想整個政府的整體資源的分配絕對不是只用地方角度的觀點中央政府在一些經濟發展的政策或者是"},{"start":7917.515,"end":7920.096,"text":"對,錯綜複雜啦,最後一定會有個答案出來,就好像25年前通過的財化法一樣"},{"start":7935.098,"end":7949.197,"text":"這過就過了吧大家也許不滿意但是還是可以普遍可以接受就垂直分配的部分有沒有哪一個縣市覺得應該要做什麼修改讓它優於去年跟前年的"},{"start":7951.371,"end":7971.123,"text":"我想大家那個目前財政部目前中央這邊依據財政收支化分法的那個比率播出去的金額其實對各地政府來說目前是夠用的所以顯示在他們的財政剩餘或者是舉債的比例的降低"},{"start":7972.043,"end":7993.505,"text":"不過財政剩餘的提高或舉債比例的降低都是往好的趨勢在發展你上一次跟22縣市的首長見面是什麼時候?或是相關人員?就是上一次委員您召委召開的公民會我還不知道立法院那麼好用"},{"start":7995.237,"end":8014.438,"text":"我們自己在地方財政聯繫會報也都有跟他們討論你要趁這個暑假的期間多多召開召開一些會議或者三天兩夜也無所謂你再把召開的時間、地點跟我們講一下我再過去送"},{"start":8015.629,"end":8027.998,"text":"珍珠奶茶送雞排過去給你們加油打氣跟鼓勵然後順便聽聽看22縣市究竟垂直分配的部分有哪一個縣市是有問題的"},{"start":8030.356,"end":8057.676,"text":"其實你就現在的這個這個大概的邏輯裡面你每個只要增加百分之三十啊三十啊跟過去比起來根本就沒有人有意見啊如果你增加百分之三十跟去年比有意見的你把名單交給我我再一一來槌尋問他們問題是出在哪裡當然錢不可以亂花啊你造成很多的蚊子管造成很多的浪費"},{"start":8058.88,"end":8081.317,"text":"這不是全民所樂見的但是你要抓到一個大概百分之七七八八大概八成九成大家的接受程度慢慢再收斂一定就會有答案出來你能不能為這個25年沒有修法的財政收支劃分法你願意來盡一點力量"},{"start":8083.197,"end":8107.904,"text":"跟委員報告我們國庫署目前在做的事情就是朝這個方向在我希望說你的專業你們的辛苦跟研究就是趕快推出因為這個不是什麼政治性的對立的議題而是全民嗷嗷逮捕的一個重要法案過了以後"},{"start":8108.664,"end":8129.937,"text":"可以改大很多的城鄉差距有很多的地方真的是很需要的那我你當然說呢什麼其實在這裡可能你一時答不出來沒有關係你就22縣市抽絲剝繭那我想你如果三天兩夜的聯席會你願意一個一個慢慢談"},{"start":8131.498,"end":8158.352,"text":"我們相信一定就會有答案出來與其不做倒不如左手開始動起來做9月22日開議之前你如果版本沒出來那黃沪珊珊委員怎麼辦還好其他委員都在等你如果真的都不動的話那最後被迫無奈沒辦法"},{"start":8159.315,"end":8186.796,"text":"那就國民黨的版本要通過我不曉得是最好當然是比去年的好但是有沒有更好的我們也期盼有更好的大家一起來討論我們這個海納百川我們心胸是開闊的只要是好的是對的大家一起共同來支持好不好是 謝謝委員我們會自己努力辦希望你歷史留名叫做陳柏臣"},{"start":8188.802,"end":8211.251,"text":"講究誠信,萬事一定成。好不好?謝謝蘇昂。謝謝。那請那個部長,莊部長。要請莊部長。莊部長好。委員好。親安陳家。親安親安。希望陳家一路都平安。"},{"start":8212.418,"end":8225.443,"text":"我覺得你們這個內容剛開始在做的確獲得很多年輕人的熱烈的迴響那請問這一波說房地產又飆漲"},{"start":8230.862,"end":8244.916,"text":"這個問題到底在是什麼地方出了問題我相信不是財政部你覺得勒?跟委員報告房屋價格的波動影響的因素有很多比如說市場的利率還有股市熱絡資金充沛"},{"start":8245.516,"end":8272.479,"text":"還有地區產業的發展還有經濟的基本面好的話還有重大公共建設陸續到位尤其是交通建設那會還有另外對於房市的預期心理甚至有對於通膨他認為要保值所以買房子所以影響房屋價格的因素蠻多的那新清安貸款事實上是協助年輕人他沒有自由的住家房屋的話讓他可以去買一間房子那政府給你協助"},{"start":8272.878,"end":8274.259,"text":"所以現在外界在講說房屋飆漲其實不是財政部的錯這句話對不對"},{"start":8298.236,"end":8317.423,"text":"我講房屋漲價因素很多如剛剛所說那但是對於有一些不當的一些話術或是投機行為等等比如說像網路揪團去買這個事實上是要抑制的我想這個政府各部門也都注意到了那財政部也會去做相關的一些處理所以這樣一路走來有沒有人錯?"},{"start":8319.875,"end":8334.784,"text":"我覺得應該是說你運用新清安貸款去做不是做自助用去做投機甚至轉租而不是我們要做協助的對象那這樣的話是不應該的有人犯錯可是最主要機關單位都沒有錯"},{"start":8336.767,"end":8354.278,"text":"當然這個部分我們對於知道有這樣的情形就應該增強化我們的貸錢的增盛以及貸後的追蹤管制就是要做到以免好的政策被別人拿去做不當的使用所以出發點是對的出發點是良善的所以其實我也是覺得我也認同"},{"start":8359.124,"end":8386.71,"text":"至於房價會長因素實在太多太多了比如說有位黃仁勳先生你認不認識在電視上常常看到他是他如果回來台灣那當然是帶動台灣的成長啊比如本席也公開請經濟部來邀約拜託這個輝達的公司總部可以設立在新店"},{"start":8388.22,"end":8410.134,"text":"因為新電有寶高暖體智慧園區有第二期第三期現在還在推第一期的部分Tesla、鴻海、Google等等相關都已經進駐了所以新電又不跳電又不缺電所以來新電是多好的一件事所以要在這裡也拜託部長你也思考一下"},{"start":8410.774,"end":8430.074,"text":"多多鼓勵AI這些未來靈隱世界風騷的這些也是台灣人讓他們願意回來台灣、居住在台灣、耕留台灣但是我這邊要講因為時間關係主心震起來就是請部長思考一下怎麼樣讓"},{"start":8431.996,"end":8449.824,"text":"這些好的人才願意住在臺灣稅賦的問題很重要還有居留的問題希望你們也研究一下改天我們再來討論好 謝謝謝謝委員請表 謝謝謝謝榮平財委員的質詢待會我們在武力華委員質詢之後休息10分鐘緊接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢"},{"start":8460.894,"end":8462.115,"text":"謝謝主席,我請莊部長我請莊部長"},{"start":8480.565,"end":8508.951,"text":"緊鑼密鼓我希望財政部盡快的跟各縣市政府再把相關的東西整理一下也有如果有什麼意見的話我覺得都可以討論好嗎我們會跟各地方政府來在座討論謝謝委員好今天我要問的是就是央行的總裁楊金龍其實他曾經在立法院說他自己也是40歲才首購年輕人如果買不起房大部分可以選擇先租房所以租屋市場"},{"start":8510.431,"end":8533.061,"text":"應該是目前為止大概算起來有98萬戶如果一家有2到3個人的話大概將近再加20多萬的學生我們有300萬戶的租屋族所以租屋族在台灣是人口的15%左右也就是說目前為止購屋如果沒有辦法那麼快購屋所以租屋應該是一個選擇對吧"},{"start":8535.462,"end":8546.24,"text":"而且台灣還有300萬人正在租屋所以目前為止我們應該是認為租屋的經濟能力會比買房的經濟能力稍微弱勢吧"},{"start":8547.81,"end":8550.671,"text":"所得稅法特別我們針對各項免稅還有各項的扣除額我們特別去算了一下其實在房貸有房貸自用住宅的扣除額在租金有租金的扣除額"},{"start":8574.223,"end":8589.441,"text":"從單單所得稅法這條17條我們目前為甚麼算起來非常的有趣我們相對經濟弱勢的租屋族我們給他的優惠反而比有自用貸款的購屋族給他的扣除而來的少"},{"start":8590.509,"end":8609.675,"text":"我簡單的說如果目前的利率大概是2%30年期的房貸貸款的金額要超過1500萬每年利息才會到達我們所得稅法30萬的扣除的上限也就是說考量我們的房貸大概是八成所以買一個1800多萬的房子"},{"start":8612.216,"end":8626.892,"text":"他繳的自用租財利息才會達到我們所得稅法給他的稅負減免的範圍也就是他要買一個很高至少1800萬的房子但是呢我們的房租扣除了現在是18萬"},{"start":8628.334,"end":8645.381,"text":"那如果按照這個房租的扣除了他的投資報酬率我們用最少的2%來算他租了一個房子大概900萬他就會達到他的政府稅負減免的範圍也就是說我們的所得稅法對於購屋族比較優惠"},{"start":8646.561,"end":8669.445,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":8669.96,"end":8687.778,"text":"一千四百塊一坪一個小家庭租20坪一對夫妻大概他一年的房租就要30萬所以我們只給他扣18萬所以部長你覺得我們所得稅法是對購屋族比較優惠對租屋族比較苛刻嗎?"},{"start":8690.077,"end":8694.324,"text":"委員報告啊,這個30萬是在列舉扣除額裡面,那第一個當時那個委員也算出來的當時30萬,但是在訂30萬的時候當時的利率是比較高的,所以訂了一個30萬,那這個是我們訂得太高了是嗎?"},{"start":8708.143,"end":8729.879,"text":"然後至於我們的18萬是放在特別扣除額裏面還有跟委員報告這18萬的支出呢還要如果是它是超額應該怎麼講租金補貼它如果有租金補貼的話超過租金補貼的部分是可以做扣除也就是租金補貼那個不會再影響它"},{"start":8730.64,"end":8732.401,"text":"所以部長我的意思是說特的確是我們所得稅法裡面對於租族跟"},{"start":8738.679,"end":8762.355,"text":"公務組不同的對待這個是有認為有必要真的有必要對於18萬的扣除額我們有必要再做檢討而且這麼多年在房貸利息已經調漲過4次但是房租扣除額2000年之後24年只在去年調升過一次所以這個是有必要檢討的"},{"start":8763.836,"end":8778.988,"text":"這個是二十多年來我們只條生過那麼一次所以我認為啦租稅的中立性還是應該公平對待所以不管怎麼樣我希望這個部分要做一個檢討我們也會提案也希望財政部有一些相關的這個18萬的部分是"},{"start":8779.648,"end":8781.63,"text":"新青年貸款目前為止父母親有房子,他能不能夠貸?"},{"start":8801.732,"end":8803.333,"text":"那請問一下所得稅法裡面房租的扣除額跟他有撫養父母的撫養扣除額他們能不能夠同時申請?"},{"start":8827.51,"end":8852.835,"text":"我房租不能夠扣除跟我父母有沒有房子有沒有關係?那是同一個申報戶裏面如果他被我撫養他爸媽有房子我就不能扣我的房租了對吧?因為他是同一個申報戶而且是他要撫養清楚剛剛講了新青安我們認為他是成年人所以他父母有房子跟他沒有關係"},{"start":8854.275,"end":8860.464,"text":"今天所得稅我能不能扣房子扣房租扣除了跟我爸媽有沒有房子為什麼有關係"},{"start":8862.11,"end":8888.282,"text":"我再講一遍很多人是中南部的爸媽有老家的房子他到北部來租房子但是他爸媽可能年紀大了所以他沒有辦法之後他會繼續撫養父母撫養義務是每一個人的存在不會因為他家住哪裡他就沒有撫養義務當他的爸媽有房子的時候他在台北租房子的扣除額就不能計算你覺得這樣公平嗎"},{"start":8891.499,"end":8916.271,"text":"當時我們確實把他放在同一個報戶裡面這兩個事情對我來說他就是矛盾的如果親親案貸款我們認為他是成年人他爸媽的房子跟他無關他應該自己負責所以他可以取得親親案貸款但是當他在爸媽在南部有房子他在台北的租屋的金額在他的薪水裡面即使他撫養了他的父母他就沒有辦法"},{"start":8919.777,"end":8926.212,"text":"我希望財政部應該要去檢討一下這兩個的論理理由沒有辦法說服我"},{"start":8927.336,"end":8949.212,"text":"如果你剛剛講的那個是一個理由那就請把他當成成年人他的撫養義務是民法給他的不是因為他不能扣除所得相關的租金支出是因為他有撫養義務因為他爸媽幫他扣除了另外一筆錢這是不對的撫養義務是全中華民國人民都有的誰都有"},{"start":8949.952,"end":8969.778,"text":"不是只有他但是因為這樣他不能把房租的支出扣除這是不公平的部長你們有想過這件事嗎在訂這個條文的時候是有考慮過那為什麼還放在裡面所以我要講的是如果我們把它當成年人就把它當成年人"},{"start":8970.629,"end":8981.936,"text":"如果把我們罷他當撫養義務他就是撫養義務他有沒有租屋的事實他有那能不能扣除我認為應該要去做檢討這是第二個部分部長這個是今天我們不出來租稅中立性是的"},{"start":8986.398,"end":9008.808,"text":"租稅中立性公平就好所以這個我們希望如果我們把租屋族當成政府希望剛剛講將近有300萬的租屋需求的人我們希望他又是我們承認他是經濟相對弱勢的人我們怎麼樣讓他在租稅上面得到一個一定公平的對待這個很重要"},{"start":9009.915,"end":9032.512,"text":"尤其是剛剛講我們不是要鼓勵人民孝順父母嗎?我們不是要鼓勵大家因為中南部的房子他可能有個老家但他在台北的租屋的費用竟然不能扣除這兩個本身就是矛盾衝突的所以部長我希望你研議我也希望在下一個會期前如果你們沒有相關的版本我們可能也會來提出修法的要求"},{"start":9033.792,"end":9034.413,"text":"我認為這兩個原理應該相同"},{"start":9063.581,"end":9078.711,"text":"是不是相同當然我們要看他的用意在哪裡還是回到稅務工作平息委員剛剛提的那個我知道委員的意思這部分容我們再來做思考跟研議好的謝謝部長我等你的回答我們希望開議前也給我一個滿意的答覆謝謝委員謝謝謝謝黃珊珊委員的質詢請接著我們請吳立華委員質詢"},{"start":9095.911,"end":9097.416,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長有請莊部長"},{"start":9104.361,"end":9127.532,"text":"委員好部長好當我們在談居住正義的時候往往都是很關注在房價打房但實際上我們來看一下根據內政部不動產資訊平台他所提供的資料估算全國的租屋戶大概是93萬戶"},{"start":9129.633,"end":9129.653,"text":"﹚委員"},{"start":9159.633,"end":9159.853,"text":"主席"},{"start":9178.086,"end":9206.981,"text":"大概可以到18%到35%特別是在臺北市那幾乎呢他的所得都拿去負擔他的租金那我們也曾經看到資料就是問年輕人那如果問說你認為買房比租屋好的好處是什麼我們可以看到這個排名第一的一個原因叫做長期居住"},{"start":9207.981,"end":9227.297,"text":"也就是說他不用怕被房東趕那反過來說我們這些租屋族其實他心中最大的隱憂也就是不能夠久居那如果說問到這些房客就是你租屋的時候你最在乎的面向是什麼"},{"start":9227.998,"end":9228.618,"text":"在3月份邀請財政部來研議"},{"start":9247.404,"end":9266.254,"text":"免追溯租金所得稅這個租稅特色的可行性那我們也看到財政部你們的回覆你們是特別提到說現在已經有提供很多的租稅誘因例如像是社宅租金補貼免納眾所稅"},{"start":9269.156,"end":9285.136,"text":"那又例如像包租代管免納眾所稅那或者是說關於誠實申報的房東呢他可以出租的時候他可以降他的房屋稅率又或者說"},{"start":9286.617,"end":9307.974,"text":"這些我們現在即將明年再上路的就是由列舉扣除額改列到特別扣除額讓這一些房客他可以減他的所得稅又不影響房東那當然這個部分我們是希望說因為明年要上路希望財政部要加強宣導"},{"start":9309.575,"end":9329.253,"text":"另外一方面你們也提到加強查緝囤房大戶我看到資料提到2021年的8月一整年跟2022年1月起一整年針對這一些10戶以上跟5戶以上的大戶說兩撥共查"},{"start":9332.737,"end":9348.796,"text":"獲到6053件合計補稅可以補到3.2億元那先請教一下部長就是關於這個所謂的持有者10戶或5戶以上的這些他們是有跨縣市嗎"},{"start":9351.376,"end":9377.976,"text":"有跨縣市所以有茶企他們是跨縣市那這個部分我是想要請教因為立法院的預算中心曾經提過就是你們這個所謂的加強茶企大戶他就是不含法人像很多的物業公司他其實非不動產這些他們其實才是真正的持有大戶"},{"start":9378.817,"end":9404.697,"text":"那請教一下部長,就是這方面你們的態度是怎麼樣?委員這個實務執行我是不是可以請署長回答?好,謝謝,署長。報告委員,當時我們對於租賃所的查證主要是針對個人建築,因為它沒有扣繳資料,也沒有開發票的資料,完全仰賴個人房東自己誠實申報,所以我們才會鎖定個人房東的部分,如果他是租給個人,"},{"start":9406.098,"end":9435.647,"text":"因為都沒有相關資料可以掌握嘛 那我們特別專案查核至於研究預算中心研究裡面它講不函法人中的非不動產及營界工程業者持有多戶因為這些都叫盈利事業盈利事業基本上出租是要開利發票的然後因為它有資產負債標 如果它資產裡面有這麼多棟的房屋基本上如果有所謂的不對稱的那種收入劣報也會變成規矩查核的對象"},{"start":9436.127,"end":9452.788,"text":"所以它就沒有列在這個專案計畫裡面我們很關心因為我們認為我們一直在講打房或者是房價的意志這個部分其實他們往往才是根源因為他們持有的房屋"},{"start":9453.989,"end":9478.541,"text":"現在做這個行業的非常多我想這個部分還是要請財政部要注意那另外就是有提到你們加強查緝囤房大戶今年各地區國稅局強化個人應該就是5戶以下那這個查核專案作業目前應該也推動半年了想要知道一下成效怎麼樣"},{"start":9479.521,"end":9497.005,"text":"報告委員,因為我們這計畫它是按記回報的,所以目前我們還在那個就整個從,而且它是不是年初就開始,它是在後面才開始,所以目前還沒有查的成效,但按記回報之後一定會跟委員如果有關心這個問題,我們再回報給你。好,謝謝。"},{"start":9500.926,"end":9529.867,"text":"總之你們的回覆講了這麼多就是棒子也有蘿蔔也有所以呢認為租稅特色是違反租稅的公平啊那我是要特別去提到說當我們用盡了所有的棒子跟蘿蔔我們會看到問題還是存在表示我們還有問題沒有解決還是有原因那我在這裡就是特別提到我舉個例子"},{"start":9530.427,"end":9551.736,"text":"像土地稅法的第34條有一個所謂的一生一次一生一屋的土增稅那它的自用稅的匯率是10%比一般買賣的20到40%優惠很多那為什麼我特別提因為我們如果我賣了一個房子我可以賺500萬"},{"start":9553.297,"end":9577.976,"text":"可是如果說我非自用我可能就是要繳課一百萬以上那如果我是自用我只要課大概五十萬左右這個差很多所以其實這也是一個隱憂啊因為將心比心很多的屋主他擔心他未來他準備要賣房子他可能會因為這樣子而不報出租"},{"start":9578.936,"end":9604.622,"text":"所以我想這個部分就是要特別提醒就是我們可能財政部可不可以去參考比照像房東地價稅優惠的一個做法那讓這些誠實的報稅者他也能夠適用這個自用的稅率那為什麼我這樣說因為我們都很清楚看到在COVID-19疫情期間很多人以前都是不報勞保啊"},{"start":9605.862,"end":9622.311,"text":"可是因為我們寄出了一個勞工紓困補貼所以呢 調出了很多的人他就趕快去投勞保提高投保勞工的投保意願所以像這樣子的一個狀況其實都可以提供財政部來參考"},{"start":9624.132,"end":9649.845,"text":"其實我在這邊就是特別要講還是要回到居住正義我們要關心的希望財政部放更多的關心更多的感情在這一些租屋族我們很期待我們台灣未來不要執著在我們的一個民族的價值觀好像一定要有土有房其實一生一輩子很短"},{"start":9651.226,"end":9669.644,"text":"我們不見得每一個人一定要買房子但是重點我可以在我這一生我能夠用很低的租金然後住到很好的房子因為我很希望你們給一些付稅的誘因像那一些鼓勵房東要修繕這些老舊的房屋啊"},{"start":9670.365,"end":9690.945,"text":"我們很希望我們的住屋者住得安全住得舒適很宜居住得很健康我想這個部分都希望財政部能夠來幫個忙讓我們每一個人一生都能夠住得起住得好我想這個才是真正的居住正義那部長您的看法如何"},{"start":9691.767,"end":9700.079,"text":"任同委員,居住是一個人的一個基本生活的一個需求然後每個人有適宜的一個居住環境是很重要的"},{"start":9700.595,"end":9721.694,"text":"這也就是要達到居住正義的一個目的那委員剛剛所提的這3項我想這個部分我們是不是以書面來做回覆好嗎那一定要有對策啊你們要再多想一想因為問題始終沒有解決那我希望能夠朝向更好的方式我們來解決居住正義的問題"},{"start":9723.106,"end":9732.28,"text":"那是不是第二項不要限定我們在一個月內署名我們等有成效出來以後我們就一起回報給委員這樣好嗎好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝吳立法委員的質詢我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":9758.207,"end":9764.051,"text":"委員會委員會長"},{"start":9784.68,"end":9787.801,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":10427.803,"end":10431.044,"text":"我們繼續開會齁接著我們請李昆城委員質詢謝謝主席我們請莊部長請莊部長"},{"start":10447.185,"end":10458.162,"text":"委員好部長好今天早上很多委員都在關心有關新清安的問題那本席先請教一下部長那新清安跟舊清安跟過去的這個青年貸款有什麼不一樣"},{"start":10459.616,"end":10477.314,"text":"新青安貸款其實從民國99年12月就開始開辦了那在去年的8月1號開始所謂的新青安那最主要就是我們把貸款額度從800萬提高到1000萬因為從99年到現在事實上房價是有調整高的所以把那個貸款額度提高"},{"start":10477.534,"end":10505.759,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":10505.905,"end":10517.53,"text":"立期的補貼,因為這個公股航庫跟這個內政部的住宅基金有合計補貼兩碼啦是的,那是因為央行的升息,是陸續升息,不是一開始一開始新青鴛事實上那個我們的公股航庫事實上是從111年3月就開始自行吸收半碼,就是減少半碼的收取"},{"start":10526.614,"end":10527.394,"text":"當時說3年的利息補貼,是。好,那星期二到何時結束?"},{"start":10554.474,"end":10583.846,"text":"新清安沒有所謂的結束,沒有結束,只是利息補貼有結束。對,利息補貼到哪時候?115年的7月底。好,那我先請教一下部長,就是說我們的貸款額度有增加200萬,然後寬限期增加2年,然後寬限的還款年限也增加10年嘛,對不對?那我認為啦,新清安其實是民時不符,民時不符。這個新清安過去新年貸款有沒有一個年紀的限制啊?"},{"start":10585.755,"end":10614.87,"text":"過去是沒有一直都沒有年齡的限制但是呢40歲以下事實上佔了73%就是我們是鼓勵年輕人是以青壯族為主啊所以基本上都是用40歲來做一個劃分啊對那這是新親安齁這個齁你從18歲到88歲其實都可以買欸對不對但是73%、75%都是40歲以下的年輕人不一定喔那有些人可能是這一個這個父母買啊但是是用年輕人的這個名義也都有可能啊"},{"start":10616.602,"end":10638.544,"text":"父母出錢?對阿父母出錢阿那但是說名字上面是年輕人的名字是﹖然後也跟委員報道對我的意思是說阿就是說我們這個新青安齁這個沒有任何的年齡限制我們只要這個成年就可以了就算父母有房子但是呢這個我子女呢是成年就可以他只要成年人他沒有房子就可以嘛對不對"},{"start":10640.035,"end":10658.225,"text":"對阿,他是這個,這個第一個齁,跟青年其實沒有什麼關係,我說過齁,他60歲也可以買,80歲也可以買,所以他跟新青安齁,這個跟青年是畫不上關係的。那這個卓院長齁,他有提到說新青安其實齁,補貼的這個原因是非常好,是幫助年輕人買房。"},{"start":10659.468,"end":10670.724,"text":"那這個時候房價高漲也沒有說單一的元素不一定都歸就在新清安但是他也認為新清安可能會有一些問題所以他也特別召開了會議 對不對"},{"start":10673.797,"end":10690.052,"text":"部長也有參加嗎?有參加那這個部長這個會議中有沒有提出什麼樣的一個這個來遏止或是來解決這個新清安所衍生的一些問題?根本的報告在會議中我們大概就把新清安執行的情形做了一個分析報告"},{"start":10690.712,"end":10708.524,"text":"比如說我們報告裡面就是說事實上運用新安貸款然後去買的房屋一千五百萬就是總價是房屋總價不是貸款額多一千五百萬你們有三項解決的方法就對了嘛對那解決方法貸前貸後還有這些對貸前方法都有那等一下我要請教這些問題我就說這個主委員長他有提到然後這個他注意到一些問題了那這個內政部長劉士芳他有提到嘛"},{"start":10718.911,"end":10721.192,"text":"他認為這樣對房市的意志會有一點效果所以他呼籲中央銀行還有財政部在考慮新清安貸款的時候不宜再加碼補助這是內政部的部長他的說法"},{"start":10737.117,"end":10754.549,"text":"其實央行總裁楊金榮其實講得更多了在上次召開聯席會議的時候他提到說新清安房貸是利益良善屬於政府健全房市的一環但是呢但是第一個造成移轉動作增加有它的衝擊第二呢"},{"start":10755.109,"end":10775.638,"text":"央行也去調查供股行庫的新清安房貸主要是有些房產是在父母的名下但是以子女為借款人央行關注的焦點是說當子女去申貸新清安的時候是否會涉及到央行對第二戶貸款的管制措施這是央行的"},{"start":10776.258,"end":10805.505,"text":"那他也提醒年輕人要注意財務管理不要只看目前還有警示呢房貸主如果還不起債務的話銀行也會跟著受害但是呢對於有什麼漏洞這是財政部的職責央行不會越主帶袍這是央行的說法所以請教一下這個我剛提到有關這個卓院長還包含這一個內政部長還有央行總裁金管會可能也有沒注意到那財政部的做法"},{"start":10806.992,"end":10818.736,"text":"我們的經濟措施包含就是說對於公股、行舖在辦理新清案貸款的時候,你在撥貸前要確實的查核是不是屬於投資客還有人頭部的模式。這個部分其實銀行工會都有規範相關的太陽。"},{"start":10828.459,"end":10834.024,"text":"所以這個太陽事實上是歷年累積下來這種太陽去做匯總的所以在影響在貸款的時候之前就要做加強這方面的一個審查那另外呢對於貸後的管理已經積查也要強化對就是我知道你有貸錢跟貸後但是我是問你說你真的查的到嗎?你的工具夠用嗎?我們的竭盡所能竭盡所能齁"},{"start":10853.72,"end":10876.128,"text":"那另外對於新貸戶他就要寫切結書告訴他說你如果有違規的情況被你們抓到會怎麼樣當然違規的情況第一個他不符合清安貸款的一個資格條件當然就不應該享用清安貸款的一些優惠比如說利息的一個補貼就不能享用啦對不對好所以把他追回來對但是至於這個貸款其他的他"},{"start":10876.648,"end":10878.25,"text":"如果被抓到的話,他付出的成本會高嗎?"},{"start":10899.902,"end":10920.929,"text":"他就改為一般房貸而已啊那他買房子申請貸款那你算一下他這樣會差多少錢?這個沒有算過要看他貸款的額度跟怎麼計算好那如果1000萬是用40年咧會差多少?13萬啊利息補貼大概一年13萬"},{"start":10922.19,"end":10939.489,"text":"三年13萬三年?因為利息補貼只有三年的期限,最長只有三年,到115年的期限所以被你們追回來才13萬而已嘛,對不對?對啊,可是我這樣說好像那個效果真的有限啊但是寬限期也可能會重新談啊"},{"start":10940.59,"end":10966.066,"text":"對阿寬憲期要重新談寬憲期最長是40年嘛不是寬憲期是5年5年齁那5年那他可能那你就縮短那之前是3年那我的意思是說齁就算違規被你們抓到了那個利息補貼損失才十幾萬而已阿那你知道嗎他過了5年之後他把房子賣掉了現在很多都是這種投資客阿過了5年之後把房子賣掉了他的價差都是幾百萬以上欸"},{"start":10969.397,"end":10988.155,"text":"有喔部長,你只要看現在的媒體他都幫你試算出來了現在的房價跟5年後的房價在價差可能有到數百萬很多年輕人為什麼說現在要趕快去申請這個新清安他們心裡就是說我現在不買的話以後價錢會越來越高啊"},{"start":10989.316,"end":11012.333,"text":"現在政府有這筆錢讓我去跟銀行貸款利率又這麼低寬限5年可以延長到40年對他們來講我現在不買以後買價格會更高所以我才認為說你以後追回來才十幾萬利息補貼但是那5年之後5年之後如果賣出去的話你價差是數百萬所以這個根本不符合比例吧部長"},{"start":11019.326,"end":11039.972,"text":"委員我想這個當然第一個是多少會賺多少這個其實誰也說不準因為房地產的趨勢但是房地產趨勢是往上漲的趨勢是往上漲但是漲的幅度漲的幅度一定高於十幾萬的利息補貼啦所以我的意思是說講起來好像有三大管制措施但是對於投資人、投機人來講根本沒有什麼殺傷力"},{"start":11046.174,"end":11065.376,"text":"我想這個部分跟新青安貸款的用意不符的部分我們會去做剛剛講的精進的一些措施那其他的部分內政部也都在處理對阿我知道啦我只是點出來就是說就在財政部的手段這方面你立行補貼把它收起來寬限年限把它縮短對我來講痛不癢阿"},{"start":11067.717,"end":11081.083,"text":"我想政府這樣做是幫助年輕人沒有房子去買,其實要珍惜這個我們都知道,這個政策也沒有說不好,但是我們知道說它有一些漏洞了,所以我們要知道說它漏洞在哪裡那再請問一下,這個40年的話有人試算過啦,如果是借了這個1000萬的話,40年它是要償還1550萬是不是?"},{"start":11089.713,"end":11090.594,"text":"五年寬限期結束之後,償還本金壓力"},{"start":11116.781,"end":11142.98,"text":"會大增。如果是這個就算用40年的這個利息來看每個月5年之後每個月要償還3.46萬每個月喔但是我們這個2022年的我們平均受雇薪資的中位數統計這個全年才51萬52萬就是未來啦他每個月償還本金的這個支出會佔他的收入大概六七成以上啦"},{"start":11143.6,"end":11154.01,"text":"這個對於年輕人來講是非常大的一個壓力啦這些都是點出來大家所點出來的一些問題啦希望這個你們最後這個院長還沒有最後確定嘛最後這個心態問題要怎麼解決嘛"},{"start":11158.08,"end":11188.012,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11188.292,"end":11202.98,"text":"政策就是盡量用我們的政策工具,把它被扭曲的部分再把它轉正過來好不好?是的,謝謝委員,是的。謝謝主席,謝謝部長。謝謝李坤誠委員的質詢,接著我們請張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員不在,接著我們請鄭天財委員質詢。"},{"start":11215.559,"end":11237.577,"text":"主席、各位委員、有請部長有請莊部長委員好部長好,辛苦了今天這個所得稅法的部分條文的修正本席有提出來針對現行條文的第88條有關這個擴角義務人擴角義務人"},{"start":11242.759,"end":11271.333,"text":"那本席所提出來的因為目前的就是機關機關跟機構是不一樣的等一下我再把條文給部長看另外就是行政法人也有行政法人法另外就是說這個破產財團之破產管理人這樣會比較明確然後信託行為之受託人"},{"start":11272.153,"end":11283.342,"text":"因管理、處分、信託、財產、首級、副資、薪資等等。這會比較明確。那我們看中央行政機關組織基準法第三條。機關,有機關的定義。"},{"start":11287.403,"end":11287.643,"text":"財政部委員"},{"start":11311.259,"end":11336.232,"text":"中央行政機關組織基準法第3條規定的非常清楚既然我們要修正就把它修得更明確機關跟機構是不一樣的然後這個中央行政機關組織基準法第6條也寫得很清楚機關的名稱就是縣部委員會署級分署分級"},{"start":11337.781,"end":11350.845,"text":"然後碰到什麼這個五號發展中心他就是機構嘛就不在這個名稱裡面所以這個部分為了避免以後的爭議所以我還是建議把機關跟機構把它分開"},{"start":11353.586,"end":11379.708,"text":"另外就是行政法人法第二條也有特別明定行政法人的定義這個部分行政院版也有列入我們共同的來把它通過這個可以嗎?這個部長謝謝委員的指教大致上委員所提案的內容大概也都跟行政院的版本非常接近大概就是有關增加一個機構的構在裡面"},{"start":11381.567,"end":11409.949,"text":"那當然委員剛剛也把中央行政機關組織基準法裡面也提出來了但是因為就是說我們認為說基本上它也可以關也機關涵蓋可以到這個機構也就是它屬於機關的一環再其次也跟委員報告因為我們相關的稅法裡面都是用的一個機關如果我們單獨在這個地方用機關跨乎機構會顯得那個機關是不是涵蓋機構反而發射因為相關所有的稅法裡面都運用一個機關那它事實上也涵蓋了機構"},{"start":11412.151,"end":11427.684,"text":"按照你這樣的說法,行政法人也不能加上去,因為其他很多的稅法也沒有把行政法人放進去,這個部分我們再討論,因為其他很多的稅法也沒有把行政法人放進去。"},{"start":11431.82,"end":11454.105,"text":"這個還是 這個一直還沒有解決的這個0403地震那現在在繼續進行相關的這些重建這些重構之類後面很多工作要做但是我們還是要去解決這個行政院0403正在復原重建的方案裡面"},{"start":11455.925,"end":11469.072,"text":"稅費的減免。這裡面有提到中所稅、營所稅、營業稅、貨物稅、煙酒稅、牌照稅、房屋稅、地價稅、漁業稅、棄欄稅。其中地方稅的部分"},{"start":11470.721,"end":11495.103,"text":"有這個房屋稅、地價稅、娛樂稅這部分部長因為花蓮本來這個地方稅就很少本來地方稅就很窮困是不是這個部分我們財政部可以另外怎麼樣透過相關的這些預算去撥補他們的這個減少的部分"},{"start":11497.665,"end":11503.11,"text":"是,謝謝委員,我想這個部分確實地方稅的部分因為這次04、03的部分給以減免,那那個就會造成縣政府的稅率減少那這個部分中央也透過中央統籌特別稅款中央統籌分配稅款裡面特別款的部分"},{"start":11514.901,"end":11521.985,"text":"以及防災基金的部分給予一些補助,讓地方政府不要因為這個受到稅收受到影響,這個中央都有考慮到。"},{"start":11535.04,"end":11559.369,"text":"最後就是說上次本席在4月10號的時候就質詢了部長他也是在04、03之後所提的就是說房屋稅房屋稅因為他課的時間就是4月底大概就會4月底以前就會收到這個房屋稅然後這個稅是要繳前一年的"},{"start":11560.865,"end":11584.201,"text":"但是他已經這個房屋就沒有了他已經很困難了然後他還要去繳前一年的稅所以這部分上次我特別質詢部長是不是能夠救前一年的稅也能夠免繳這個部分思考到就是說他已經房屋毀損那之後當然沒有房屋稅"},{"start":11584.821,"end":11611.453,"text":"那之前的部分另外就是剛剛提到我們就用補助的方式給予這個你們有正式答覆了嗎?好我們也有的是不是我們到時候用書面一起給委員再把資料給書面給我好謝謝委員謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢接著我們楊瓊瑩委員我楊瓊瑩委員楊瓊瑩也不在接著鄭盛琴委員鄭盛琴委員鄭盛琴委員不在何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員也不在接著我們請邱志文委員質詢"},{"start":11623.175,"end":11638.924,"text":"謝謝主席,請部長休息一下休息一下休息一下請副會員署宋署長、官務署彭署長、國產署曾署長、台北國稅局吳局長、北京國稅局李局長想請教各位"},{"start":11648.3,"end":11655.889,"text":"同樣問題我在上禮拜在這個復議案的總諮詢的時候本來想請教這個部長但因為實際上的關係我想我就直接請教我們各署的署長跟局長就有關於這個違憲擴權的立法院支援刑事法通過之後目前這個復議案當然失敗了"},{"start":11669.224,"end":11698.04,"text":"那這個我們相關機關包括總統府包括行政院都提出釋憲或者暫時處分我想請教大家這個在執行公務我們很多基層同仁碰到任何問題在過去我想是由部長由署長來做相關的這個詢答那你有違憲擴權法院通過之後他可以調你任何立法院可以調你任何包括承辦同仁包括你的組長"},{"start":11699.818,"end":11706.222,"text":"所有的我們基層的公務人員都可能面臨到他國會來出席來接受詢問、調查"},{"start":11708.376,"end":11735.511,"text":"我先請教一下那個復稅署宋署長李夏霞這個我們有六區的國稅局啊局還有各區的計政所還有稅務同仁省一科、省二科、省三科還有所有同仁都可能在未來面對這些立法院擴權之後所進行的調查權或者這個執行權如果不出席他被處以刑責罰則"},{"start":11738.571,"end":11743.224,"text":"這部分啦,就你署長,您了解基層同仁的反應怎麼樣?"},{"start":11746.144,"end":11756.634,"text":"報告委員,這個整個法例如果真的,就是假設啦,真的生效了,然後整個規範也都出來的時候,原則上我們當然必須依法法案的,對。"},{"start":11770.592,"end":11788.893,"text":"有沒有聽到他們的反應目前是沒有特別去了解基層同仁的反應你的未來所有的基層事務所還有國稅局兩位局長也在兩位局長可能了解這個吳局長跟李局長吳局長跟李局長"},{"start":11790.163,"end":11805.826,"text":"兩位,你們這個,你們下轄很多計程所,好多審一科、審二科這些同仁都跟民眾的權益有相關系,對不對?又處理很多案件,那他們會不會面對未來立法院進行調查?那他們的感覺是怎麼樣?"},{"start":11807.476,"end":11809.298,"text":"同仁有沒有跟你反映過?目前倒是沒有但是就是"},{"start":11823.195,"end":11850.495,"text":"有一些稅務案件要解決的我們都會盡力然後是依法去課稅對,但是現在調查權無限擴張嘛已經到違憲的階段嘛我可以把你這個國稅局下轄的計程所某某主任把他調來或是審一科、審二科的科長調來他不能拒絕出席捏你要去了解他們的感受這個可能是在違憲宣判之前他可能會面對這些問題"},{"start":11851.823,"end":11869.759,"text":"那李局長,同仁有沒有跟你反映過?跟我們報告目前我們沒有接受同仁的反映過你要不要去了解?好,我們會去問你了解,包括宋署長你要去了解所有我們稅務同仁第一線的他們可能面對到未來國會面臨到這種違憲濫權的這些調查或者質詢那這個公安部署"},{"start":11876.496,"end":11882.447,"text":"博主長,你下轄有臺北官,如果這官長、副官長什麼、我們官務人員全部被調來問,他們會有這個疑慮?"},{"start":11885.732,"end":11912.514,"text":"跟委員報告,謝謝委員關切我們基層同仁對於這個違法調查這些可能產生的一些問題的關切不過因為我們基層同仁大家都逆來順受因為有效的法律我們就會去執行逆來順受,那是你逆來順受還是同仁逆來順受你要去瞭解同仁的感覺你要內部開個會去瞭解同仁的想法不是你逆來順受"},{"start":11914.235,"end":11933.345,"text":"很多事情不能逆來順受啊!不合理的就是要抗爭,不合理就是要積極爭取啊!你那逆來順受齁,這個我覺得有點不太能夠接受。如果在國會對你不合理的要求、不合理的質詢或是對你人身攻擊,你接受嗎?"},{"start":11934.468,"end":11955.656,"text":"不能接受嘛對不對你也要求你你可以逆來順受那也可以要求你逆來順受我覺得這樣態度不行我建議所有的這個不管是官務啦國庫署啦或者是這個國產署國稅局跟相關同仁做一些多談瞭解他們的想法因為他們可能未來會面臨到國會這種違法擴權對這種諮詢或者是調查不能用逆來順受喔"},{"start":11964.841,"end":11989.774,"text":"該具以例證就要具以例證該這個辯護的時候就要辯護所以我要拜託這個特別拜託馮署長你要去跟你們各館長各基層的人辦一個座談或了解他們的想法那這個郭山鼠郭山鼠曾署長你有北區你有中區你有南區下面有很多這個相關的同仁在執行業務"},{"start":11991.325,"end":12007.072,"text":"他們質疑又非常多,樣態非常多,難免會有涉及一些這個,比方說立法院需要關心的事項,如果把你的這個南區分署長調來問,或者一個一個我們基層的同仁調來問,他們的想法怎麼樣?"},{"start":12010.266,"end":12028.027,"text":"包括國產署所有的同仁都是依法行政那如果有各機關對於我們行政過程當中有質疑的部分我們都會一一釐清但是過去從來沒有基層的同仁到立法院來接受備詢但是未來有可能最基層的都會來立法院接受詢問"},{"start":12028.888,"end":12053.929,"text":"我想大部分應該都是署長會出席比較多,所以同仁都說署長要保重嗎?不是,所以在擴權之後你所有同仁只要執行公務有相關因為調查需要都可以把他叫來立法院質詢欸不是你說你鄭署長來代表,不是這樣子欸所以你要了解這個立法院執行法通過對你們同仁在執行業務所受的影響對心裡面的衝擊,我看你們好像都不了解"},{"start":12055.646,"end":12057.187,"text":"好,是的,謝謝委員的指教,是"},{"start":12084.79,"end":12086.774,"text":"其實在立法院那兩天的質詢裡面院長也都說了很清楚"},{"start":12094.878,"end":12121.452,"text":"也就是說對於這個法的一些做法以及為什麼要提出復議的理由等等那就涉及到機關還有我們相關的公務員甚至人民的一個權利會有受影響我想這個部分院長已經說得非常清楚我相信我們同仁也可以從詢答裡面去了解這個部分現在狀況你要了解現在復議失敗對不對對好 總統公布之後我們提出釋憲暫停處分對不對但這個空窗期你如果公布之後這反正就生效喔"},{"start":12121.992,"end":12123.033,"text":"蘇星群委員不在王世堅"},{"start":12150.235,"end":12153.038,"text":"謝謝主席我請莊部長要請莊部長委員好莊部長這兩個月一個新的議題就是關於新青南"},{"start":12167.318,"end":12168.819,"text":"但是從5月你們喊說要加強勾基以來啊卻創下光5月"},{"start":12192.991,"end":12216.021,"text":"這個新清安貸款的金額跟戶數是創下9個月來最高啦也就是說事實上你們是勾額不羈雷大雨小沒有實質的作為你所任命的9大行戶董事長總經理他們不當一回事結果"},{"start":12219.178,"end":12240.06,"text":"反而我們立法院跟財政部的要求你們打算要去勾機去做查額之後反而激出另外一波的這個新清安的貸款潮他們搶著上車"},{"start":12243.942,"end":12269.571,"text":"部長如果是真的需要的青年的首構族這個我們沒話講可是現在所知道的並不然其實都已經被部分不肖建商透過人頭甚至很多炒作房屋的大戶他們也利用人頭"},{"start":12271.392,"end":12291.751,"text":"來利用新清安貸款,那麼他們取得大量的房舍再去轉租。那這些情形,好啦,我們總諮詢之後,行政院有注意啦,行政院也打算這個禮拜四說要公佈決策找你們去談,其實方向很簡單。"},{"start":12294.232,"end":12321.842,"text":"行政院跟我們立法院看法我們幾位立委的看法我相信跟你們財政部的做法也都一樣都認為有一些共識結論就是說啊貸錢要嚴格審查那麼強化貸後的稽查管理還有要求他們簽自助的切結書但是我要請問你的就是說到底"},{"start":12323.988,"end":12349.441,"text":"這幾家九大公營行庫啊他們到底是跟進不跟進到底要不要實質來配合政府這個政策還是他們默許他們放任新清安還是任由他們的授信人員繼續再做再搭配建設公司銷售他們的漁屋然後提高房價"},{"start":12350.919,"end":12376.249,"text":"你認為呢?你有沒有辦法指揮這九大公營航庫?我相信公營航庫都會配合政府的政策去做那對於所採取的相關的經濟措施也會去落實執行的你就簡單一句說會配合我就跟你講說五月他就不配合啊五月那時候你講的時候五月就只有財政部講就應該算數喔"},{"start":12379.023,"end":12394.796,"text":"這九大公營行庫都是你任命的董事長總經理喔照說你交代一下就像地震他們就立刻站好好好檢討欸結果不然他繼續放他的款"},{"start":12396.658,"end":12410.145,"text":"所以啊他們吃定了說啊光是你看我光是講這個戶數他想說我這麼大的戶數如何去去勾結光是5月就撥貸8273戶8273戶撥貸636億元喔"},{"start":12418.803,"end":12435.275,"text":"八千多五喔他就吃定了你說好吧你財政部你怎麼去勾結這樣子的心態那八月還總放款數光是八月光是前五大行庫他們就波待超過一千億那"},{"start":12438.918,"end":12443.56,"text":"新興安房貸佔了636億 戶數這麼多 他想說來吧 要查你來查 錯了 查就是放款行窟的責任 你放的款你就去查 查出來把結果告訴我們 是不是應當這樣"},{"start":12456.438,"end":12480.794,"text":"是應該這樣啊好啊那你跟他要求啊你什麼時候可以給我們給我們財政委員會一個報告說查的怎麼樣難道還要等到禮拜四難道要等行政院再下達命令嗎行政院已經很清楚包括我好幾位立委我們在對院長總質詢的時候都提到這個問題啊院長也深覺啊這確實是個問題因為"},{"start":12483.616,"end":12502.746,"text":"除了多代出這些假借新青安的名義其實在做炒作的以外最主要也拉高了房價光南港部長光南港這個都不是我演聳聽根據實價銷售這個紀錄光南港一坪就增加20萬"},{"start":12512.403,"end":12531.754,"text":"這幾個月來造價沒有增加建商地已經買了合建的契約也都簽了他成本沒增加之下一建坪多賣20萬如果我們一個上班族買個30坪就要多600萬等於同樣的房子同樣的地段"},{"start":12533.444,"end":12546.436,"text":"跟他買一戶在這兩個月新清安住長之下要多600萬多送這個建商一部保時捷你才有辦法取得這個房屋天吶一戶多600萬"},{"start":12550.339,"end":12566.632,"text":"我們生土小民辛辛苦苦的靠那一點微薄的薪水來過活我們竟然要籌集一部寶石節的價格送給建商才有辦法買得30坪的小房屋而且這個地方還是在南港"},{"start":12571.338,"end":12581.612,"text":"還不是在市中心那其他地方更是大概現在我們台北市平均房價光5月我們台北市整體平均房價高達97.55萬一百萬找4500塊錢"},{"start":12589.115,"end":12616.523,"text":"所以我認為這個情況要嘛財政部不做要不然你就說九大公營行庫董事長總經理以後不要來找你任命否則你任命他的你就要管得住他哪一個調皮搗蛋哪一個抵制你就把哪一個抄完掉不是嗎現在也該是這九大行庫董事長總經理大概任期也都快到了吧"},{"start":12617.5,"end":12620.562,"text":"正式你可以好好整頓的時候啊所以好這個議題我先到這邊我就看後續你6月份的處理5月份已經造成房價高漲"},{"start":12633.328,"end":12652.265,"text":"那也激增了8000多戶新青安擠出了他們趕上車的這一批那就看你6月份你的處理啦那我再來要跟你提不合時宜的稅制這個我講了三個月我一直在講說娛樂稅、印花稅、汽車關稅、機車貨物稅、保險品關稅"},{"start":12657.95,"end":12673.691,"text":"這些我認為很多不合時宜的應該整個取消或者調降那這個我最主要要跟你說你刪除富人稅的不對啦我希望第一步應該將刪除掉107年你已經刪除的"},{"start":12674.988,"end":12689.084,"text":"這個最高等級級距的這一級距我認為要恢復光恢復一年就可以增加100億更何況這個級距還不算最高你如果對我們台灣上萬位啊"},{"start":12691.583,"end":12717.328,"text":"這種數十億的富豪級我與他們一位代表郭台銘他就講了他說我們國家這個有很多需要建設很多需要救助的地方他說趕快來跟我們徵富人稅吧他也講了六七年我認為除了救急遽恢復以外再往上再增加幾個急遽對這些超級富豪他們願意拿出來啊那拿出來什麼用意"},{"start":12720.714,"end":12739.751,"text":"因為我們一方面勞保已經逐年財務惡化的情況都已經出現了很可能勞保在政府貼補之外還可能隨時會破產那另外我們需要稅金的地方多的那我們對身障者的保護"},{"start":12741.84,"end":12768.876,"text":"我們對青年貸款的協助太多啦所以我再一次呼籲部長你不能說輕輕鬆鬆隨便寫個兩張紙就答覆我說啊你沒要做就丟啦這個不重要錯了負能稅光你刪掉的那個級距一年就100億我希望這個級距立刻恢復同時往上再加幾個級距另外我認為啊這個"},{"start":12772.078,"end":12775.401,"text":"關稅 汽車關稅 為什麼一直跟你提 欸 玉龍這個阿斗啊 我3個月前跟你講 現在他又來了 老毛病又復發 他"},{"start":12785.168,"end":12801.433,"text":"假借國產車的名義他現在在幫中共銷售汽車他把中共的AMG車子以零組件進口化整為零在台灣組裝玉龍這10年來從2015年到今年"},{"start":12805.794,"end":12822.411,"text":"他對外銷售率是零耶!外銷零!結果他現在拼命在幫我們最大的敵人中共在幫他們銷售他們的車先前AMG車、油車賣了還不夠現在又進AMG的電動車天啊!"},{"start":12829.446,"end":12851.971,"text":"電動車現在他打算以低價來打垮歐美電動車那你試想歐美日是我們自由聯盟的好朋友我們棄歐美日與不顧他們的電動車進來我們要增高價的關稅因為我們說我們要保護禦樓"},{"start":12853.425,"end":12874.996,"text":"結果這個阿斗就利用這一點他開了小門讓中國的車輛進來在他的保護之下低價據傾銷而且部長中國的電動車這還有投資的問題耶上次我都講過啦好啦現在他大大大進來啦所以我再一次跟部長說"},{"start":12876.468,"end":12883.53,"text":"我們不應該再保護這個阿斗保護這個阿斗保護70年了還要保護他多久所以我認為這個關稅的部分、棄存關稅的部分至少針對裕隆這個阿斗這麼惡劣的行徑我們財政部應該立刻想出什麼樣的方法把這個橋門把它堵住可不可以"},{"start":12906.265,"end":12921.814,"text":"關稅的部分除了除了稅之外其實還涉及到國內產業那跟產業主管機關就很有關係所以這個部分我們可以掐尋經濟部的意見看要怎麼處理你又說經濟部意見你上次說了說要聽經濟部意見我跑去問了經濟部長他也說這個有疑慮他說要來問財政部長"},{"start":12931.172,"end":12954.482,"text":"那我乾脆約你們兩位你們兩位這樣啦主席不好意思齁我站最後30秒就好我乾脆就約你們兩位部長經濟部長財政部長那就到我辦公室你們兩個好好去喝咖啡好不好好謝謝王世堅委員的質詢今日發言委員均已詢答完畢現在進行所得稅部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12955.582,"end":12983.534,"text":"所得稅法部分條文修正草案行政院提案第88條第一項第二款對照現行條文前段文字修正為機關、行政法人、團體、學校、事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人應管理處分信託財產"},{"start":12984.975,"end":13006.406,"text":"第二項默劇刪除資質及與同現行條文第89條對照現行條文第一項第一款刪除負責人三字第二款後段修正為其扣繳義務人為機關、行政法人、團體、學校、事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人"},{"start":13007.742,"end":13035.86,"text":"第二項增加他簽不明四字第三項前段修正為機關、行政法人、團體、學校、事業、破產財團之破產管理人執行業務者或信託行為之受託人後段增加但書但機關、行政法人、團體、學校、事業由解散廢紙合併轉讓財策變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時"},{"start":13037.32,"end":13061.866,"text":"應隨時填發免扣繳平單並於10日內列單申報主管激增機關。第92條修正第一項但書為但機關行政法人團體學校事業由解散廢紙合併轉讓財策變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時。第二項後段增加文字"},{"start":13063.12,"end":13091.072,"text":"待扣稅款之日起算10日內欲連續3日以上國定假日者所扣稅款繳納、扣繳平單申報、核驗及發給期間延長5日。第94條之一修正第一項序文依第89條第三項本文第92條第一項本文及第92條之一規定應填發免扣繳平單、扣繳平單及相關平單之機關"},{"start":13092.031,"end":13101.97,"text":"行政法人、團體、學校、事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者、信託行為之受託人及其他扣繳義務人"},{"start":13107.762,"end":13134.984,"text":"第111條現行條文前段規定一列第一項後段規定一為第二項並修正如下政府機關、行政法人或公立學校違反第89條第三項規定為一線或為據實申報或為一線填發免扣繳平單者應通知其主管機關或監督機關多處其依法辦理前項已為應申報及填發免扣繳平單者"},{"start":13136.389,"end":13157.426,"text":"違反第89條第三項規定為一線或為據實申報或為一線填發免扣繳平單者處1500元以上、2萬元以下罰還並通知現期補報或填發藉其未補報或填發者處3000元以上、9萬元以下罰還第112條對照現行條文第一項修正為"},{"start":13162.096,"end":13166.643,"text":"納稅義務人於現繳納稅款者應加徵滯納金,於30日仍未繳納者,其為營利失業者,積增機關得停止其營業至納稅義務人繳納之日止。"},{"start":13175.919,"end":13197.608,"text":"第114條對照現行條文,第一項第二款修正為按原罰還上限、下限金額處罰。扣繳義務人以依本法扣繳稅款而未依第92條規定之期限按時填報或填發扣繳平單者,除限期責令補報或填發外,除1500元以上、20000元以下罰還。"},{"start":13199.228,"end":13220.593,"text":"經激增機關現期責令補報或填發扣繳評單,扣繳義務人未依限按時補報或填發者,處3000元以上、45000元以下罰還。第114條之3對照現行條文,將現行第一項及第二項固定減半處罰規定,修正為按原罰還上限以下限金額處罰。"},{"start":13222.213,"end":13246.421,"text":"第114條之三,營利事業於中華民國106年12月31日以前分配於股東、社員或出資者之87年度或以後年度之股利或營餘,為依第102條之一第一項規定之期限,依規定格式按時填報或填發股利平單者,除限期責令補報或填發外。"},{"start":13246.681,"end":13249.524,"text":"處1500元以上、3萬元以下罰還經濟徵機關限期責令補報或填發鼓勵評單營利事業未依限按時補報或填發者處3000元以上、6萬元以下罰還"},{"start":13263.854,"end":13280.387,"text":"於逆次月於中華民國107年1月1日以後分配於股東、社員或出資者之87年度或以後年度之鼓勵或營餘,為依第102條之一第一項規定之期限,亦規定格式按時填報或填發鼓勵評擔者。"},{"start":13282.128,"end":13309.527,"text":"除限期責令補報或填發外除1500元以上、3萬元以下罰還經濟徵機關限期責令補報或填發鼓勵評單營利事業未依限按時補報或填發者除3000元以上、6萬元以下罰還第126條配合法治體力著作文字修正修正第二項及千年、千月、千日修正之條文施行日期由行政院定之等文字"},{"start":13311.175,"end":13324.419,"text":"委員鄭天財等17人提案第88條第一項第二款對照行政院版本前段文字除機關修正為機關瓜湖go瓜湖其餘同行政院提案條文第89條第92條第94條之一第111條除機關修正為機關瓜湖go瓜湖其餘同行政院提案條文"},{"start":13340.319,"end":13367.021,"text":"第112條、第114條、第114條之三、第126條均同行政院提案條文委員顏寬恒等20人提案第88條同行政院提案條文第89條對照行政院提案條文除第一項第一款保留負責人三字其餘同行政院提案條文第92條同行政院提案條文"},{"start":13367.898,"end":13391.653,"text":"第94除第一項序文其他扣繳義務人及信託行為之受託人其餘同行政院提案條文第111條同行政院提案條文第112條除第一項修正為納稅義務人於現繳納稅款者因稅捐積增法第20條規定每餘3日按滯納金之金額加增1%滯納金"},{"start":13394.332,"end":13408.498,"text":"於30日仍未繳納者,除由激增機關移送強制執行外,其為營利失業者,激增機關得停止其營業致納稅義務人繳納之日子,其與同行政院提案條文。宣讀完畢"},{"start":13412.708,"end":13427.057,"text":"好,那我們就請各位就座,我們就進行協商。那就請部會部長、相關的署長就座。如果跟這個協商條文沒有相關的這個署長就可以先行離席。"},{"start":13441.803,"end":13468.701,"text":"好 那我們就進行所得稅法部分條文修正草案的這個協商那有關於第88條的部分請問各位兩位委員有沒有意見如果沒意見我們就按照行政院版通過行政院提案通過行政院提案通過第89條請問兩位委員有沒有意見好 沒有意見我們就按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13471.408,"end":13490.251,"text":"好來第92條請問各位有沒有意見好沒有意見就按照行政院提案通過94條之一請問各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們就按照行政院版本通過第110條請問各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們就按照111條111條"},{"start":13499.622,"end":13501.184,"text":"111條,請問各位有沒有意見?"},{"start":13501.184,"end":13510.413,"text":"沒有意見,我們就按照行政院版通過。第112條,請問各位有沒有意見?"},{"start":13510.413,"end":13518.201,"text":"沒有意見,我們就按照行政院版本通過。第114條,請問各位有沒有意見?"},{"start":13518.201,"end":13521.564,"text":"那個李崑禎委員剛到齁,沒有意見齁,我們就按照行政院版通過。"},{"start":13525.095,"end":13542.87,"text":"來接下來我們是第114條之3請問各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們就按照行政院版通過第126條請問各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們就按照行政院版通過好那審查完畢謝謝 謝謝各位來配合"},{"start":13564.445,"end":13566.826,"text":"好,協商完成,請議事人宣讀協商結論"},{"start":13569.008,"end":13573.65,"text":"協商結論第88條、第89條、第92條、第94條之一、第111條、第112條、第114條、第114條之三、第126條均照行政院提案通過宣讀完畢好請問各位委員對協商結論有異議"},{"start":13591.479,"end":13608.64,"text":"沒有異議,好,照協商結論通過本次會議做如下決議一、說明及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請求補充資訊請相關部會於一週內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從期鎖定"},{"start":13609.966,"end":13625.626,"text":"所得稅法部分條文草案等3案審查完畢案擬具審查報告提報院會討論,院會討論群不須交由黨團協商。院會討論時有本席補充說明。請問各位委員對以上決議有異議?"},{"start":13627.248,"end":13634.089,"text":"好,無異議通過本次會議議程已進行完畢,堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢一併並入紀錄,刊登公報並請議事委員協助處理,散會提醒各位委員下午1點半還有一個日時的協商,謝謝"},{"start":13655.257,"end":13668.16,"text":"市長 那個案子你要記得處理了欸 那天啦 那天李赤有去有有有 那個李榮淑那個案子 他們不用處理 你們會問我怎麼解決案子?"},{"start":13668.16,"end":13668.68,"text":"台中的那個嗎?"},{"start":13668.68,"end":13674.082,"text":"那個是南區的喔喔喔 南區的 有機會嗎?"},{"start":13674.082,"end":13682.304,"text":"嗯 他們說已經 在調查我之後再給你 好好 這個不用 這個不用 這個不用"},{"start":13687.43,"end":13687.63,"text":"委員會議委員會議"},{"start":13721.539,"end":13721.939,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}