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就是廣完就走了嘛 對不對剛剛也有委員說啊 就很多的問題啊希望我們啊 這個海委會啊能夠把它整理出來我們該修法的就修法像這種的我跟你講 尤其對惡劣的對我們的對岸惡劣的這種的因為我們"},{"start":209.967,"end":231.025,"text":"如果修法然後要求他有一些賠償或什麼的或更多的責任我覺得才會嚇阻啦不然我跟你講反正喔他來都是有目的的啦他拿到的代價比他被關的還多啦每個人都會繼續來啦那我們如果台灣不修法這個問題沒有辦法解決啦不知道主委你的看法"},{"start":232.298,"end":252.595,"text":"謝謝委員馬上就可以提的就是說那我就比照抽砂船啊抽砂船現在我們經過修法也是很感謝委員們的支持之後呢第一個我船就可以沒入了所以前天就判決了沒入發回更審然後沒入第二個我還可以同時給他病科這個罰金"},{"start":256.198,"end":279.258,"text":"所以如果我們把它修在電業法是電力的嘛輸配電的然後電信那個電信管理法是是這個海嵐的斷纜的船嘛目前沒有目前沒有這個這個條款那確實是可以可以修目前是只有刑責但是船的沒入啊罰金等等這些我們可以來修"},{"start":280.688,"end":294.137,"text":"對 我的意思是說我舉這個例子那我們來修這個法但可能要請你們再多想不是 請你們要再多想一點有 像AIS的部分我們也去請那個 航港局修了"},{"start":295.018,"end":313.626,"text":"那另外就是說小船不掛AIS小船沒有納管的事我們也一直都在溝通現在波特船也是很嚴重的一個問題所以很多其實很多法都是我們海巡這裡執法以後反應給主管部門去修法來的"},{"start":314.406,"end":328.722,"text":"主委我的意思就是這樣以這一個全漁船的這種例子這樣子啦包括現在很多的甲漁船我們應該要修法能夠想到的一次就圍堵啦"},{"start":329.843,"end":353.438,"text":"不夠的再來補不要說一個一個來修要修法就一次然後各單位所以我才今天說要請你們海委會包括跟海巡署有相關的你們實際上遇到的要就一次我們來做盤點如果有委員的支持我們在跨部會的協調會更方便更好我們一定支持這個也不是為了委員有好幾個法我們都認為說應該要啟動修法"},{"start":356.119,"end":384.478,"text":"這個是為了台灣啊包括我剛剛講的那個電液法的部分我們如果是電力像我們不久以前去取締一個電力斷纜那個是出配電喔它斷纜喔讓我們去抓到了船喔那結果呢它那個意外就非故意過失它就不罰它就沒有處罰過失這個有很多啦很多樣態啦我現在講的就是我們把全部的樣態拿在一起一次處理啦是賣負又一個一個來啦賣負啦"},{"start":386.619,"end":411.164,"text":"人家是非常惡意的而且你們現在沒有錢沒有油你們連油費都不夠的情況之下你們能夠百分之百的確保說能夠保護到我們漁民保護到所有的人民嗎然後可以抓走私嗎我覺得這一點我相信主委你也不敢保證吧在沒有錢沒有油的情況之下"},{"start":411.94,"end":429.476,"text":"跟委員報告我們才前幾天回來的我們一千來回一千多海里然後想要去救一個船長因為他中風後來把他戒護回來光油錢光油錢大概都五六百萬那像這樣的遠洋救援我們就要五六百萬"},{"start":430.237,"end":451.237,"text":"那另外就是我們24小時的運作然後全國有這麼多的安檢所等等那我們的電費也不夠去年的電費都還用第二預備金替我們付了一千萬那今年水電費這樣一山我們現在也是苦哈哈也是很自愛我知道啦 主委電費齁"},{"start":453.669,"end":461.145,"text":"也很重要啦 但可能冷氣不用吹啦但有錢不夠連救人都不行啦這個才是重點啦 主委謝謝謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":232,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時53分）我請主委跟署長。"],["主席：請主委跟署長。"],["張委員宏陸：主委跟署長，其實剛剛很多人都在講我們海纜被斷的事情，衍生出來的問題是，我們的求償幾乎……反而我們要賠錢對吧，這個署長也可以回答，我們是不是幾乎都要賠錢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我請署長回答，我們過去只有2個案成功。"],["張委員宏陸：對，請署長回答。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，從開始有海纜被破壞以後，我們有2件是求償成功。"],["張委員宏陸：你只就你這個部分就好了，電纜修復是他們的事情，那是中華電信架的，就我們的。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，在海纜安全維護的部分我們投注很多心力，現在就海纜的部分，第一個，我們除了要關注在周邊航行的船舶以外，我們還要派很多勤務去做船舶辨識區域……"],["張委員宏陸：不，這個是等一下，我跟你講，船被扣押之後，船舶的停泊費誰出？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：之前是我們處理機關來處理……"],["張委員宏陸：對，我的意思就是你們。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：但是後來1月6號以後海委會有開過跨部會會議，這個部分只要犯罪證據明確的話，是全部由中華電信跟航港局來處理。"],["張委員宏陸：再來，人員呢，上面犯罪的所有人員、船長這些呢？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：這些全部都是由中華電信跟航港局來處理，後續的事由他們，包括他們所有的補給，這些由代理行全部來處理，這個在上次1月6號開的跨部會會議已經協調好了。"],["張委員宏陸：所以現在都他們嘛？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：再來，如果船隻被扣押之後，拍賣的錢現在是歸我們還是歸中華電信？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：拍賣就歸國庫，它是由法院來拍賣。"],["張委員宏陸：歸國庫嘛，對不對？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：這個是中華電信海纜的事情，現在是這樣。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：但從以前到現在，我們只要扣押了船，幾乎我們都賠錢比較多吧？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：對。"],["張委員宏陸：有沒有賺錢過的？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：因為像停泊費、保管這些全部是我們海巡署在處理。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦，我們是不是都賠錢比較多？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：都賠錢比較多嘛？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：對。"],["張委員宏陸：再來，犯法的人員呢，可能關一關也就走了吧？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：這個部分就是依法院判決，如果他有罪的話就會判處徒刑，在臺灣服完刑期以後，透過陸委會方式跟移民署方式來遣返。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦，就是關完就走了嘛，對不對？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：剛剛也有委員說，針對很多的問題希望海委會能夠整理出來，我們該修法的就修法，像這一種的，我跟你講，尤其對惡劣的、對岸惡劣的這一種，如果修法要求他有一些賠償或更多的責任，我覺得才會嚇阻。不然我跟你講，反正他來都是有目的的，他拿到的代價比他被關的還多，每個人都會繼續來，如果臺灣不修法，這個問題沒有辦法解決。不知道主委你的看法？"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝委員，馬上就可以提的就是比照抽砂船，抽砂船現在經過我們修法之後，也是很感謝委員們的支持，第一個，船就可以沒入了，所以前天就判決了沒入，發回更審然後沒入；第二個，還可以同時併科罰金。所以如果我們把它修在……電業法是關於電力的、輸配電的，電信管理法是關於海纜、斷纜的船，目前沒有這個條款，確實是可以修，目前只有刑責，但是船的沒入、罰金等等這些我們可以來修。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我舉這個例子，那我們來修這個法，可能要請你們再多想……"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，大概是經濟部門……"],["張委員宏陸：不是，請你們要再多想一點，不只是……"],["管主任委員碧玲：有，像AIS的部分我們也請航港局修了，另外關於小船不掛AIS、小船沒有納管的事，我們也一直都在溝通，現在波特船也是很嚴重的一個問題。"],["張委員宏陸：對！"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實很多法都是我們海巡這裡執法以後反映給主管部門而修法的。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，我的意思就是這樣，以這種權宜船的例子，包括現在很多的假漁船，我們應該要修法，能夠想到的一次就圍堵，不夠的再來補，不要一個、一個來修，要修法就一次，然後各單位，所以我才會要請你們海委會跟海巡署針對相關的、你們實際上遇到的，要就一次。"],["管主任委員碧玲：好，我們來做盤點，如果有委員的支持，我們在跨部會的協調會更方便、更好溝通。"],["張委員宏陸：我們一定支持，這個也不是為了委員。"],["管主任委員碧玲：有好幾個法我們都認為應該要啟動修法。"],["張委員宏陸：這個是為了臺灣！"],["管主任委員碧玲：包括我剛剛講的電業法部分，如果是電力，像我們不久以前去取締一個電力斷纜，那個是輸配電斷纜，我們抓到了船，結果它屬於意外，非故意過失就不罰，它就沒有處罰過失。"],["張委員宏陸：這個有很多樣態，我現在講的就是，我們把全部的樣態拿在一起一次處理，來不及再一個、一個來，來不及了！人家是非常惡意的，而且你們現在沒有錢、沒有油，你們連油費都不夠的情況之下……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們的水電費……跟委員報告……"],["張委員宏陸：你們能夠確保百分之百保護到我們漁民、保護到所有的人民嗎，然後可以抓走私嗎？這一點我相信主委也不敢保證吧，在沒有沒有錢、沒有油的情況之下？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，就像前幾天才回來的，我們來回一千多浬想要去救一個船長，因為他中風，後來把他接回來，光油錢大概都五、六萬，像這樣的遠洋救援就要五、六萬；另外就是我們24小時運作，全國有這麼多的安檢所等等，我們的電費也不夠，去年的電費都還用第二預備金替我們付了1,000萬，而今年水電費這樣一刪，我們現在也是苦哈哈，也是很窒礙！"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，主委，電費也很重要，不過可能冷氣可以不用吹，但油錢不夠連救人都不行，這個才是重點，主委，謝謝！"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸召委。","再來我們請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-11","speakers":["張宏陸","張智倫","蘇巧慧","王美惠","黃建賓","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","牛煦庭","許宇甄","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳琪銘","陳冠廷","徐富癸","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","丁學忠"],"page_start":297,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}