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誰是那個主責的看項目 如果是所有的法令規章各部會負責的部分都必須要修的部分那就是政委會主持我們負責法制的政委會主持"},{"start":59.847,"end":71.966,"text":"那像譬如說事發一開始的時候是我們海委會來招集那看看項目那譬如說下個禮拜要開的修電纜是什麼修電纜的話電纜壞了"},{"start":75.752,"end":93.247,"text":"電纜壞了那個技術面我們大概就是中華電信他們跟速發部去處理那譬如說下禮拜要開的是有關於海纜涉及的海域我們到底要公告多大範圍作為禁錨的區域那這個就由交通部"},{"start":94.788,"end":122.474,"text":"所以那個區域反而是交通部不是海委會沒有我們是執法我們就都不是權責機關你們是按照他們規定區域多少我們提供修法的需求然後是主管部門必須去修區域他們規定了以後你們按照那個區域來做執法所以這一次就是今年二月的這個紅太五八號的事件那您也說你們監控了三天大概三十幾個小時"},{"start":123.954,"end":153.457,"text":"那现在最大问题不止三天不止有啦有啦因为它跨中间第一天后段跟第三天前段那所以你们因为很明显的就是等于是监控长达三十几个小时然后又广播七次然后都不听对都不听然后我们反而都已经监控了还让海揽被破坏所以这个就凸显出"},{"start":154.558,"end":173.514,"text":"我們到現場以後才破壞的警告了而且監控了但是沒辦法把他驅離沒有辦法去驅離取締就是因為法令不足所以我們很希望要重判他真的是不可原諒七次耶"},{"start":177.497,"end":196.736,"text":"對對對那通常警告不從我們應該就可能可以驅離甚至取締為什麼不做這個當時海象的問題是海象的問題就算有法令也還是沒辦法取締跟驅離可是我們是實在是奮勇泛濫因為海象"},{"start":197.296,"end":214.108,"text":"有时候我们硬顶都得顶出去但是连顶都顶不出去的时候这个就变成我们要监控本席想了解的是就算法令完备了可以取缔可以驱离也有可能因为海象我们没办法吗"},{"start":216.152,"end":244.678,"text":"我們基本上最近的這些案例我們基本上有的是事先會到譬如說鴻泰那另外譬如說順心99是我們追到那追到的案子不只順心99我們大多數都會追到那現在主要本席就想建議有沒有在考慮好像有蠻多學者專家有在考慮是不是要有一個海底電纜的安全專法"},{"start":246.966,"end":271.691,"text":"那來統合整個的海事電信國安以及基礎設施那也包含了你們他們這個違法的時候我們是要驅離取締因為我覺得太誇張了廣播七次然後監控三十幾個小時最後我們的電纜還是被破壞了那當然我們都覺得那個船隻很故意而且很有問題"},{"start":272.811,"end":288.876,"text":"您重判我們也認同但是我們自己的專法在哪裡這是一個問題第二個本席想要問我們都已經看到它一直在那個區塊然後我們自己也知道底下可能有海嵐"},{"start":289.912,"end":305.833,"text":"有電纜其實他自己也知道因為他那個海圖會顯示所以我們給人家知道那重點就是說我們有沒有水下無人機可以去確認譬如說他一直在那裡我也不知道他有沒有破壞那我們有沒有水下無人機"},{"start":306.274,"end":331.102,"text":"我們目前沒有我們目前的我們的大調查船有附帶一個水下無人載具將來可以調用它來用那這個東西最近行政院核定要讓我們買了但是還沒有製作出規格還沒有招商還沒有發包這個是我們調查船附帶有那到時候調查船就可以用來做這個事所以"},{"start":333.062,"end":354.238,"text":"那海巡還沒有 海巡還沒有 但是國海院有我剛剛講的這個是我們的國海院所以我海委會呢 已經有一個水下無人載具同樣都是海委會的而且他本來調查船這種時候也可以出去那所以這個海底電纜的安全專法有沒有考慮設專法"},{"start":355.979,"end":376.324,"text":"目前因為權責不在我們所以我這裡沒有在考慮這個方向我沒有提專法為什麼呢因為它其實涉及的都是非常專業的各部會的專業所以我們一方面有電信管理法那本席請教你海底電究竟是誰管轄誰是管轄者"},{"start":379.664,"end":401.479,"text":"她歸NCC跟速發部的部分比較多所以這個必須要明確明確還有誰可以進行相關的修正但是航安的部分是交通部那我們是執法我們都執法所以我們還是希望啦我們海底電可以說是我們台灣通訊的生命線千萬不能讓這個生命線長長斷長長斷這就是國安危機"},{"start":406.244,"end":412.596,"text":"接著還有一點點時間本席想要請教去年本席也有請教過主委"},{"start":413.513,"end":436.687,"text":"我們有在規劃無人機是空中的無人機那我們也看到原本預計的這個114年度就是今年要驗收的無人機突然出問題廠商無法履約你們又重新開始所以本席想請教你這個無人機第二代的無人機計劃"},{"start":438.848,"end":458.621,"text":"經費是兩億多嘛 兩億一千八百三十五萬七千元那現在你重新修正計畫 你的經費的部分我請署長說明好不好前面執行了一兩年 結果最後這個無疾而終因為我們要求的那個功能 它最後做不出來那我請署長說明好不好"},{"start":462.328,"end":486.633,"text":"這邊跟委員說明那我們那個計劃是112年開始到114要開始交今年要交市價那我們在整個測試的過程當中因為他沒有辦法達到我們想要需求滯空兩小時的這個時間所以這個部分經過所有的法律程序以後怎麼辦因為這個合約最後他沒辦法履約最後解約那按照解約的話我們經費是怎麼樣"},{"start":489.674,"end":505.59,"text":"原本兩億多嘛現在那廠商拿多少最後這個解約以後因為他還要做相關的也還沒提出來你們還不知道我們知道我們現在要重新起案的也是兩億多只有差了將近五千萬左右"},{"start":506.522,"end":532.455,"text":"所以用原來的錢再補五千萬然後我們重新四月嘛我看你們四月提修正計畫好那我們當然我們對就是海委會我們海巡這裡我們的配備我們一定支持那當然我們也希望這個國家的計畫我們不希望一再的落空所以這個部分我們大家一起加油好謝謝"},{"start":536.469,"end":536.834,"text":"好,我們請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時55分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：管主委好。今天很多委員都很關心我們海底電纜安全的問題，當然您也有表達海委會是執法單位，因為海底電纜所涵蓋的部會及層面都很廣，包含國安，包含通訊，您也有提到已經有在做跨部會的整合，請問跨部會的會議是誰來主導？誰是主責的單位？"],["管主任委員碧玲：看項目，如果是所有的法令規章各部會負責必須要修的部分，那就是政委會主持，負責法制的政委會主持。"],["徐委員欣瑩：法制的部分就是政委……"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，法制的部分。另外是譬如像事發一開始的時候，是由海委會來召集……"],["徐委員欣瑩：第一線……"],["管主任委員碧玲：譬如說下個禮拜要開的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：修電纜是誰？電纜壞了……"],["管主任委員碧玲：如果是電纜壞了，技術面大概就是由中華電信跟數發部去處理。譬如說下禮拜要開的是有關於海纜涉及的海域，我們到底要公告多大範圍作為禁錨的區域，這個就由交通部他們來主責。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以那個區域反而是交通部……"],["管主任委員碧玲：那是交通部……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是海委會？"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，我們是負責執法，我們不是權責機關，所以我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你們是按照他們規定區域多少……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們提供修法的需求，然後是主管部門必須去修。"],["徐委員欣瑩：區域他們規定了以後，你們按照那個區域來執法？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：針對今年2月宏泰58號的事件，您也說你們監控了三天，大概三十幾個小時……"],["管主任委員碧玲：不只三天……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為它跨中間，第一天後段跟第三天前段啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：很明顯的是你們監控長達三十幾個小時，然後又廣播了七次，然後……"],["管主任委員碧玲：它都不聽。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，都不聽！然後我們都已經監控了，反而還讓海纜被破壞，所以這個就凸顯出……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們到現場以後才破壞的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，警告了而且監控了，但是沒辦法把它驅離，沒有辦法去驅離、取締，就是因為法令不足，因為沒有辦法……"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以我們很希望要重判，它真的是不可原諒啦！七次耶！"],["徐委員欣瑩：通常警告不從，我們可能就可以驅離，甚至取締，為什麼不做這個動作？"],["管主任委員碧玲：當時海象的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是海象的問題？"],["管主任委員碧玲：就是因為海象，這種季節……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就算有法令也還是沒辦法取締跟驅離？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們實在是奮勇犯難，因為海象有時候我們硬頂都得頂出去，但是連頂都頂不出去的時候，就變成我們要監控那麼久。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席想了解的是，就算法令完備可以取締、可以驅離，也有可能因為海象我們沒辦法嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：關於最近的這些案例，基本上我們有的是事先會到，譬如說宏泰；另外譬如順興39是我們追到嘛！追到的案子不只是順興39，我們大多數都會追到。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席主要是想建議，好像有蠻多學者專家有在考慮是不是要有一個海底電纜的安全專法？來統合整個海事、電信、國安以及基礎設施，也包含了在他們違法的時候我們要驅離、取締，因為我覺得太誇張了，已經廣播7次，然後監控三十幾個小時，最後我們的電纜還是被破壞了，我們都覺得那個船隻很故意，而且很有問題，要重判我們也認同，但是我們自己的專法在哪裡？這是一個問題。第二個，本席想要問，我們都已經看到它一直在那個區塊，然後我們自己也知道底下可能有海纜、有電纜……"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實它自己也知道，因為在海圖上都會顯示。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們給人家知道……"],["管主任委員碧玲：那個是公開的海圖。"],["徐委員欣瑩：重點就是我們有沒有水下無人機可以去確認，譬如說，它一直在那裡，我也不知道它有沒有破壞，那我們有沒有水下無人機這種設備？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們目前沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那為什麼不考慮採購？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的大調查船有附帶一個水下無人載具，將來可以調過來用，最近行政院核定要讓我們買這個東西了，但是還沒有製作出規格、還沒有招商、還沒有發包。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以未來會買嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個是我們調查船有附帶，那到時候就可以徵用調查船來做這個事，那海巡還沒有……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可不可以針對我的問題回答？現在行政院已經核定，所以未來你們會買？"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡還沒有，但是國海院有，我剛剛講的是我們的國海院，所以海委會已經有一個水下無人載具。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那你們還是可以調用，因為同樣都是海委會的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：可以，而且調查船本來在這種時候也可以出去。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以針對海底電纜的安全有沒有考慮設專法？"],["管主任委員碧玲：目前因為權責不在我們，所以我這裡沒有在考慮這個方向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，你剛剛有講法令方面是這樣，那你也沒提議嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我沒有提專法，為什麼呢？因為它其實涉及的都是各部會的專業，是非常專業的，我們一方面有電信管理法……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那本席請教你，海底電纜究竟是由誰管轄？誰是管轄者？"],["管主任委員碧玲：它歸NCC跟數發部的部分比較多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這個必須要明確規定，誰可以進行相關的蒐證？"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是航安的部分是交通部，那我們是執法，我們都是執法。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為海底電纜可以說是我們臺灣通訊的生命線，所以千萬不能讓這個生命線常常斷掉，如果常常斷掉，這就是國安危機。","好，我還有一點點時間，本席想要請教一個問題，去年本席也有請教過主委，我們有在規劃無人機，就是空中的無人機，那我們也看到，原本預計在114年度也就是今年要驗收的無人機突然出問題，廠商無法履約，你們又重新開始，所以本席想請教主委，你這個第二代無人機計畫的經費是2億1,835萬7,000元，現在你重新修正計畫，那經費的部分……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我請署長說明好不好？"],["徐委員欣瑩：前面執行了一、二年，結果最後卻無疾而終。"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為對我們所要求的那個功能，他最後做不出來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那最後這個經費是怎麼樣？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我請署長來說明。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員說明，我們那個計畫是112年開始，在114年要開始交，今年要交4架，在整個測試的過程當中，因為它沒有辦法達到我們滯空兩小時的這個需求，所以在經過所有的法律程序以後就……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣要怎麼辦？對這個合約最後它沒辦法履約了。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：對，就解約。"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後解約了，那我們的經費是怎麼樣？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：我們重新再……"],["徐委員欣瑩：原本是二億多，在這個解約以後，最後廠商拿了多少？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：在解約以後，因為它還要做相關的賠償……"],["徐委員欣瑩：也還沒提出來，你們還不知道？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：我們知道，我們現在要重新啟案的也是二億多，只有差了將近5,000萬左右。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以是用原來的錢？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：對，用原來的錢。"],["徐委員欣瑩：要再補5,000萬……"],["張副主任委員忠龍：重新開啟計畫。"],["徐委員欣瑩：然後重新開始，我看你們在4月提修正計畫。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們對海委會、海巡的配備一定支持，當然我們也不希望國家的計畫一再的落空，所以對這個部分我們大家一起加油，謝謝。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，我們請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-11","speakers":["張宏陸","張智倫","蘇巧慧","王美惠","黃建賓","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","牛煦庭","許宇甄","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳琪銘","陳冠廷","徐富癸","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","丁學忠"],"page_start":297,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}