{"error":false,"id":["160350"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":160350,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160350","日期":"2025-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-23-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-04-17T12:09:25+08:00","結束時間":"2025-04-17T12:15:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:08","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c2d17dc46794b9a4603d21a26cccd04fcf11904fa481b7b675aa7aeb25548b496248f9d3805023e75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"12:09:25 - 12:15:33","會議時間":"2025-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【4月16日及17日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.063468750000002,"end":9.480968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.72096875,"end":13.379093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.15534375,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.336593750000002,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.47909375,"end":28.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.63409375,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.25784375,"end":34.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.91159375,"end":35.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.025343750000005,"end":39.518468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.362218750000004,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.27721875,"end":46.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.14596875,"end":47.500343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.32721875,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.242218750000006,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.48221875,"end":57.743468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.970968750000004,"end":64.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.37096875,"end":66.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.27784375,"end":70.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.28159375,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.98596875,"end":73.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.48784375000001,"end":74.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.67284375,"end":78.75284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.96784375,"end":80.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.21221875,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.37659375000001,"end":86.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.25784375,"end":87.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.54034375,"end":89.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":91.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.37534375,"end":93.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.27784375,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.36596875000001,"end":97.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.56409375000001,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.30659375,"end":99.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.26409375,"end":103.18784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.86284375000001,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.32659375,"end":108.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.31346875000001,"end":109.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.00096875000001,"end":112.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.45221875,"end":113.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.40971875000001,"end":114.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.11846875,"end":116.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.90284375,"end":118.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.37034375,"end":125.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.39096875000001,"end":126.99846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.87596875000001,"end":129.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.06971875000002,"end":130.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.48721875,"end":132.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.09034375000002,"end":135.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.63846875000002,"end":136.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.75221875,"end":137.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.69721875000002,"end":138.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.41846875000002,"end":140.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.53596875,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.88159375,"end":148.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.96971875,"end":151.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.61909375000002,"end":152.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.57659375,"end":154.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.17534375,"end":157.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.67284375,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.38159375,"end":159.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.76534375,"end":161.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.47409375,"end":162.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.22909375,"end":164.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.58721875,"end":170.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.27846875,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.33721875,"end":174.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.78846875000002,"end":175.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.71221875,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.66096875000002,"end":182.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.98096875000002,"end":185.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.29721875,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.84909375,"end":193.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.02596875,"end":194.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.17346875,"end":198.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.76784375000003,"end":201.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.94034375,"end":202.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.74596875,"end":205.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.83846875,"end":206.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.50909375,"end":208.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.78721875000002,"end":210.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.07784375,"end":213.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.53721875000002,"end":218.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.76471875000001,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.40534375000001,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.28284375,"end":225.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.44284375,"end":228.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.07096875000002,"end":231.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.53909375,"end":236.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.29346875000002,"end":240.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.42784375000002,"end":243.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.35159375,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.53284375,"end":245.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.40596875000003,"end":247.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.26221875000002,"end":248.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.75159375,"end":251.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.21096875,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.22346875000002,"end":253.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.23159375000003,"end":256.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.58159375,"end":259.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.49659375000005,"end":261.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.53846875,"end":263.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.12034375,"end":265.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.86284375,"end":273.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.80346875000004,"end":268.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.49534375,"end":268.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.16534375000003,"end":278.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.71721875000003,"end":280.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.57784375,"end":282.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.58596875,"end":284.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.13409375000003,"end":287.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.27284375,"end":289.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.75346875,"end":291.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.73221875,"end":292.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.96409375,"end":294.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.63471875000005,"end":297.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.55409375,"end":300.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.24971875,"end":302.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.65034375000005,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.67909375,"end":308.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.06284375,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.37034375,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.28159375,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.80034375,"end":315.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.71159375,"end":316.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.53846875,"end":317.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.50034375,"end":320.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.39846875,"end":325.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.02221875000004,"end":327.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.33409375,"end":329.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.49409375000005,"end":330.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.54034375000003,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.49784375,"end":334.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.71284375000005,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.82159375000003,"end":343.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.24721875,"end":344.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.47909375,"end":350.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.47409375,"end":351.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.99284375,"end":354.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.94596875,"end":355.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.68409375000005,"end":359.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.67096875000004,"end":362.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.62409375000004,"end":363.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.09659375,"end":368.44596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.226,"end":32.159,"text":"請應安會的林主委好 應安會的林主委主委最近這四個月十三號啊特訓飛去新加坡這個仗義機場這次飛去出事 已經過了一萬年了我覺得有兩個非常重要 不只要立案趕快調查因為你今天要非常明確的宣示 因為人命關天"},{"start":33.491,"end":57.461,"text":"這個事件啊 當初13號一尊 飛機上有181個乘客耶181條人命 還包括所有這個機組員這事情要非常非常的謹慎非常謹慎 而且你們剛剛都提到了 以前都有類似的這個案子嘛這次一定要記取教訓 我先跟你講一個最重要的他違反非常多的規定 第一"},{"start":60.011,"end":74.678,"text":"航空器飛行作業管理規則第76條如果有發生單邊的發動機失效最久的航行時間是多久60分鐘對不對他是不是嚴重違反他明明有一個可以在一小時內可以降落的地方而且是他本來設定的目的地結果一步就來"},{"start":90.359,"end":116.509,"text":"嚴重違法 違反規定 跟北斗回來修槓這是第一個非常嚴重的缺失跟違法對不對是不是很嚴重 注意嚴重違法 很嚴重對不對 這是第一項第二個也很嚴重啊飛機起飛 一定有備用機場嘛 對不對有沒有那一天的備用機場 你知道 目的地來 目的地是新加坡的"},{"start":117.932,"end":140.348,"text":"章魚機場 他的備用機場那天有幾個他有好幾個備用的這個機場啊台北 我去搜尋了 第一個台北第二個香港第三個馬尼拉第四個岩港第五個福寺牆第六個新加坡第七個吉隆坡沒有小港機場啊這個很嚴重啊"},{"start":145.919,"end":172.119,"text":"你最基本的飛行的這個導引你之前就做了一個備用機場了切 你全部都不用你怎麼會跑到小港機場呢這第二 是不是很嚴重對嘛 對不對第三個 剛才在說國際上怎麼規範呢雙引擎的飛機如果發生單引擎失效第一件事情 其實"},{"start":173.396,"end":178.859,"text":"最近的嘛所以最合適的嘛這種卡到手也要安全嘛 對不對怎麼連這個最基本的都沒有好那這個國際的這個規範是怎麼規範如果飛機的狀態或者飛行受到影響有可能使得飛機變得不安全馬上就要在最近的地方選擇最近的最合適的馬上就要下來他沒有做這件事情第一"},{"start":203.863,"end":226.756,"text":"剩餘的這個燃料不足也要趕快去處理這是另外一個問題了那天的飛機你的燃料夠嗎你本來四個小時的飛機這樣過去對不對你本來預定到新加坡是四點鐘嘛你冒著燃料不足的這個狀況這又是另外一個危險了"},{"start":230.114,"end":253.39,"text":"另外一個指引如果天氣或者飛行環境或者附近有可以使用的你就不能飛太遠的地方這些都是國際上的指引嘛所以你看我一路上這樣下來一路練過來這事情嚴不嚴重所以很嚴重對不對是好所以我具體的這個要求我具體的要求第一個應安會"},{"start":255.893,"end":278.542,"text":"對這個嚴重的飛航事件要立即做立案的這個調查這是第一個馬上立案調查OK 主委OK嗎因為這個案子民調局已經在調查中了我們會請他提供我們的粗暴資料而且今天就應該很嚴正的說明我應該是第一個把你所有的缺失包括違法違規危險性都講很清楚了"},{"start":279.741,"end":304.814,"text":"對不對你認為很危險嘛 對不對所以不只立案調查也要快而且要很嚴正的聲明這種事情不能再發生這攸關人命好不好第二個你要去要求民進黨參照美國聯邦航空條例FAA的這個規定訂出一個更明確的我們今天有些規範啊可是你剛剛一直在講安全的同時你說有國際的這個規範嘛 對不對"},{"start":307.714,"end":330.655,"text":"依照FAA定一個更明確的規範 跟國際是要接軌的好不好這是第二個 可以做嗎可以嗎 可以喔第三 要求民進黨局要盡快對外界的這個餘力要釐清而且做一個明確的規範 而且要跟時間賽跑要盡快好不好不然我們現在質詢的心聲有類似的個案又在發生啦 好不好"},{"start":331.976,"end":355.256,"text":"所以這個案子不要拖延好不好因為這個案子目前在網路上面跟論壇上面引起 已經燒起來了啦已經整體燒起來了不要讓這把火再繼續燒了 要讓人民可以安心而且做一個有能力解決問題的政府應安會如果是說請我去買就說你速度太慢嘛利用這個機會"},{"start":357.142,"end":366.082,"text":"跟時間賽跑做出成績來好不好保障某一位去搭飛機的人這個安全好不好是這位老店跟時間賽跑喔 交換好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":888,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時9分）請運安會林主委。"],["主席：請運安會林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，針對最近（4月13日）從桃園飛往新加坡樟宜機場的飛機出事，已經有好幾位委員問過你了，我只要說兩點非常重要的，不只要立案趕快調查，而且你今天要非常明確的宣示，因為人命關天，當初13號發生這個事件，那時候飛機上有181個乘客、181條人命，還包括所有的機組員，所以這件事情要非常非常謹慎，而且你們剛剛都提到了，以前都有類似的案子，這次一定要記取教訓。","我先跟你講一個最重要的，他違反了非常多的規定，第一個，航空器飛行作業管理規則第七十六條，主委看一下，如果有發生單邊的發動機失效，最久的航行時間是多久？60分鐘，對不對？他是不是嚴重違反？明明就有一個可以在1小時內降落的地方，而且是他本來設定的目的地，結果他並沒有下來，此舉嚴重違法、違反規定，而且又飛回來小港，所以這是第一個非常嚴重的缺失跟違法，對不對？主委，是不是很嚴重？很嚴重，對不對？這是第一個。","第二個也很嚴重，飛機起飛後一定有備用機場，有沒有？那一天的備用機場在哪裡？目的地是新加坡的樟宜機場，那天他的備用機場有幾個？有好幾個備用的機場啊！我查了資料，第一個是臺北；第二個是香港；第三個是馬尼拉；第四個是峴港；第五個是胡志明市；第六個是新加坡；第七個是吉隆坡，並沒有小港機場啊！這個就很嚴重了，最基本的飛行導引，在飛行之前就有備用機場了，而且有7個，他全部都不用，只會跑到小港機場，是不是很嚴重，對不對？這是第二個。","第三個，剛才一直在說，國際上是怎麼規範的？雙引擎的飛機如果發生單引擎失效，第一件事情其實就選最近的、最合適的機場，用膝蓋想也知道這樣才安全，對不對？怎麼連這個最基本的判斷都沒有！","國際上是如何規範的？如果飛機的狀態或者飛行受到影響，有可能使得飛機變得不安全，此時馬上就要選擇最近的、最合適的，然後馬上就要下來，他沒有做這件事情；第二個，剩餘的燃料不足，也要趕快去處理，這是另外一個問題了，而那天飛機的燃料夠嗎？本來是4個小時的飛行時間，本來預定到新加坡要4小時，你卻冒著燃料不足的狀況，這又是另外一個危險了。","還有另外一個指引，如果天氣或者飛行環境或者附近有可以使用的，你就不能飛太遠的地方，這都是國際上的指引。我一路這樣唸過來，請問主委，這事情嚴不嚴重？很嚴重，對不對？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以我具體要求，第一個，運安會對於這個嚴重的飛航事件，要立即立案調查，主委，OK？"],["林主任委員信得：這個案子民航局已經在調查中，我們會請它提供我們初報的資料。"],["張委員啓楷：而且今天就應該很嚴正的說明，我應該是第一個把你所有的缺失，包括違法、違規、危險性都講得很清楚的人，而且你也認為很危險，對不對？所以不只立案調查，速度要快，而且要很嚴正的聲明，這種事情不能再發生，畢竟攸關人命，好不好？","第二個，你要去要求民航局參照美國聯邦航空條例（FAA）的規定，訂出一個更明確的規範。換言之，我們已經有一些規範了，而你剛剛一直在講安全的同時，也說有國際的規範，那就比照FAA訂出一個更明確的規範，跟國際接軌，這是第二個，可以做嗎？應該可以吧！","第三個，要求民航局儘快對外界的疑慮予以釐清，而且明確的規範，畢竟要跟時間賽跑，要儘快，好不好？說不定我們在質詢的時候，有類似的個案又再發生了，所以這個案子不要拖延，因為這個案子目前在網路上面、在論壇上面已經整體燒起來了，不要讓這把火再繼續燒了，要讓人民可以安心，而且做一個有能力解決問題的政府。老實說，運安會常被罵的就是速度太慢，所以利用這個機會，跟時間賽跑，做出成績來，保障我們這些會去搭飛機的人的安全，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：好，請各位努力，跟時間賽跑，要快喔！"],["林主任委員信得：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。","登記委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：一、報告及答詢完畢。二，委員在質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未答復部分，請運安會及相關機關儘快以書面答復。","今天謝謝各位與會的官員跟媒體朋友，本日會議結束，現在散會，謝謝。","散會（12時16分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":470,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-7","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","魯明哲","陳素月","何欣純","許智傑","林俊憲","徐富癸","廖先翔","蔡其昌","游顥","邱若華","黃健豪","葉元之","張啓楷"],"page_start":421,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143901_00013"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}