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司法法治委員會啊大聲喊說那是因為外交部沒有送給他們啊所以我現在才請教你嘛你剛剛說你掌握了狀況嘛外交部沒有送嘛那這件事 誰要負責任?他曾經有查過 那是很久以前啦是 叫外交部來講 應該要辦理對嘛 那為什麼沒有送 誰要負責任 這是我的問題"},{"start":181.543,"end":189.5,"text":"所以我就啟動了調查 內部調查就我的部分就政風調查 包括這一點也要進行調查需要調查多久"},{"start":190.86,"end":220.098,"text":"這個就看我們政鋒來來來 請政鋒 需要調查多久這個事情很簡單啊應該要送 當初沒有送誰決定不要送 誰要負責任這個事情要調查很久 這個有這麼困難嗎來 請報告委員 我們在4月14號4月12號 接到部長室的指示我們就開始啟動調查了然後目前已經調查到將近告一段落然後我們現在在做資料的整理"},{"start":221.13,"end":230.982,"text":"什麼時候可以調查完我們努力盡快的在希望能夠在這一周能夠把它做出來這一周完成嘛 來請部長"},{"start":232.776,"end":256.809,"text":"不少我再強調一次,司法偵辦當然尊重司法偵辦嘛我們所有的社會大眾也會看嘛看說當初黃曲榮這個不肖的商人為了錢在那邊搞共諜然後幫中共發展組織那個組織的網絡有多廣現在浮上水面的只有三個人嘛"},{"start":257.569,"end":275.655,"text":"那但是看黃曲榮他做的時間接觸範圍的廣度恐怕涉案的範圍不僅止於此但無論如何我們尊重司法檢調機關的偵辦社會大眾也都會檢視但我現在回到的是外交部的部分部長請你不要誤會"},{"start":276.795,"end":301.739,"text":"你那時候還不是部長,我不會要你承擔不屬於你的責任這是我向來的問政風格那但是,現在既然您是部長,也只有您在這個位置上可以告訴全體國人說,當初為什麼該送沒有送那第二個,針對這件事情沒有送到底誰應該要負什麼樣子的責任針對這件事情,部長剛剛說這個禮拜調查會完畢嘛"},{"start":305.02,"end":310.748,"text":"那接下來就行政責任啦行政責任就責的部分部長需要多久"},{"start":313.015,"end":333.916,"text":"我想我們 但是最快的時間嘛 因為這個事情這個都形容詞啦 他說這個禮拜會做完嘛那我說他做完了以後 接下來行政究責 行政上要怎麼處理 就是部長您的我們會加速來進行 因為我要了解 看到他的調查報告的涉及 因為我希望他能夠更周延啦沒有關係啦 因為他那麼久的時間涉及的人員的業務"},{"start":336.739,"end":356.946,"text":"盡速辦理好盡速辦理那第二個事情是這個事情您是什麼時候知道的我是在這個就是有委員去質疑是所謂一個核心的到那個時間點才知道對專門委員我才知道"},{"start":359.656,"end":380.865,"text":"沒關係 接下來的問題會進入非常深的深水區那可能也不是你可以回答 沒關係我今天詢問你的問題就到此為止就先打住但我期待喔 政鋒的說這個禮拜可以做完嘛那我希望 你要展現一個態度給國人看"},{"start":382.113,"end":396.942,"text":"我們按照目前的安全查核機制該送沒有送這件事情一定要有人負責任那就等您看完政府公司調查的報告的時候下一次下一次我希望你看完這個報告了以後盡速的追究責任從嚴辦理可以嗎"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":416,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時13分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。部長，你的辦公室機要有沒有依法辦特殊安全查核？"],["林部長佳龍：我的辦公室機要有。"],["黃委員國昌：有嘛！"],["林部長佳龍：我的主任。"],["黃委員國昌：是不是應該依法要辦？"],["林部長佳龍：我們是要辦，按照他負責的業務和職級，有一般的和特殊的。"],["黃委員國昌：我今天在司法及法制委員會問的時候，調查局局長剛剛跟我說，之前吳釗燮帶在身邊十幾年的親信何仁傑，帶到外交部的時候，我問依法是不是要辦特殊安全查核，調查局局長給我的答案是沒有辦，這件事情你有掌握嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：有。"],["黃委員國昌：你有掌握嘛！"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["黃委員國昌：我剛剛問調查局的時候，我也不曉得調查局局長是不是不高興，他說他們是被動，用人機關給他們，他們才會去查核，這個是用人機關的問題。如果依法要查核卻沒有查核，現在外交部有理解為什麼當初沒有送給調查局辦特殊查核嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們展開政風調查，目前……"],["黃委員國昌：這是兩回事，第一件事情，部長瞭解我的個性，我不喜歡把問題糊在一起談，這樣談不清楚。今天我在外交及國防委員會問的關鍵問題是，他告訴我，第一個，依法要查核；第二個，外交部沒有送給他們查核；第三個，所以沒有查核。現在我的問題來了，外交部為什麼沒有送給調查局辦查核？這是我現在的問題。"],["林部長佳龍：因為我那時候還不是部長，我想應該要辦理特殊查核。"],["黃委員國昌：我瞭解，所以我剛才問你，這個狀況你有沒有掌握嘛？"],["林部長佳龍：有。"],["黃委員國昌：有嘛。現在為什麼沒有送給調查局辦查核，你不知道？"],["林部長佳龍：我知道，我一看到這個是有一些問題存在嘛。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是。"],["林部長佳龍：所以當外界在詢問我的時候，我知道這件事情在偵辦中，我雖然沒有對外講，我知道問題的關鍵，包括這一點……"],["黃委員國昌：是。刑事偵辦交給刑事偵辦，我們大家都尊重，但現在問題是在行政程序上，今天調查局是在隔壁司法及法制委員會大聲喊，說這是因為外交部沒有送給他們，所以我現在才請教你。你剛剛說你已經掌握了狀況，外交部沒有送嘛！那這件事誰要負責任？"],["林部長佳龍：他曾經有查核過，那是很久以前。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是。"],["林部長佳龍：但是照外交部來講，應該要辦理。"],["黃委員國昌：就應該要做嘛！對嘛！那為什麼沒有送？誰要負責任？這是我的問題。"],["林部長佳龍：所以就我的部分我啟動了內部調查，就是政風調查，包括這一點也要進行調查。"],["黃委員國昌：好，需要調查多久？"],["林部長佳龍：這個就看我們政風處長。"],["黃委員國昌：來、來，請政風。需要調查多久？這件事情很簡單啊！應該要送、當初沒有送、誰決定不要送、誰要負責任，這個事情要調查很久，有這麼困難嗎？來，請。"],["韓公使健豪：報告委員，在4月12號接到部長室的指示，我們就開始啟動調查了，目前已經調查將近告一段落，我們現在在做資料的整理……"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候可以調查完？"],["韓公使健豪：我們儘快努力，希望能夠在這一週把它做出來。"],["黃委員國昌：這一週完成嘛！來，請部長。部長，我再強調一次，司法偵辦當然尊重司法偵辦，所有的社會大眾也會看嘛，當初黃取榮這位不肖的商人，為了錢在那邊搞共諜，然後幫中共發展組織，那個組織的網絡有多廣，現在浮上水面的只有3個人，但是看黃取榮做的時間、接觸範圍的廣度，恐怕涉案的範圍不僅止於此，但無論如何，我們尊重司法檢調機關的偵辦，社會大眾也都會檢視。我現在回到的是外交部的部分，部長，請你不要誤會，你那時候還不是部長，我不會要你承擔不屬於你的責任，這是我向來的問政風格，但是現在既然您是部長，也只有您在這個位置上可以告訴全體國人，當初為什麼該送沒有送？第二個，針對這件事情沒有送，到底誰應該要負什麼樣子的責任？針對這件事情，部長剛剛說這個禮拜會調查完畢，接下來就行政責任究責的部分，部長需要多久？"],["林部長佳龍：當然是在最快的時間，因為這個事情……"],["黃委員國昌：這個都是形容詞啦！他說這個禮拜會做完，那我說他做完了以後，接下來行政究責，在行政上要怎麼處理，就是部長您的權責了。"],["林部長佳龍：我們會加速進行，我要瞭解、看到他的調查報告，我希望它能夠更周延，因為他那麼久的時間涉及的人員、業務……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！部長，我只跟你說儘速辦理。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["黃委員國昌：第二個，這個事情您是什麼時候知道的？"],["林部長佳龍：我是在有委員質疑一位何姓的專門委員……"],["黃委員國昌：到那個時間點才知道嘛？"],["林部長佳龍：對，我才知道。"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，接下來的問題會進入非常……"],["林部長佳龍：我第一時間就要求要進行調查。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是。接下來的問題會進入非常深的深水區，可能也不是你可以回答，沒關係，我今天詢問你的問題到此為止，就先打住。但我期待政風說這個禮拜可以做完，我希望你要展現一個態度給國人看。按照目前的安全查核機制，該送沒有送，這件事情一定要有人負責任，那就等您看完政風室的調查報告，下一次我希望你看完這份報告以後，儘速地追究責任，從嚴辦理，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們一定秉公辦理。"],["黃委員國昌：好。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員上臺質詢。","接下來由廖先翔委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-9","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","林楚茵","王定宇","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","廖先翔","王鴻薇","張啓楷","李坤城","林憶君"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}