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我們是痛心"},{"start":285.523,"end":296.385,"text":"你結果今天為了要假裝你藍綠都辦你搞一個樣板叫基隆結果目的是赤裸裸去嫁禍林佩祥很多人在罵林佩祥啊"},{"start":297.839,"end":315.226,"text":"林佩祥好恐怖喔還可以騷擾今天連署人家裡啊林佩祥多冤啊他指揮得了你檢調嗎請問林佩祥指揮得了檢調嗎鄭總回答得出來嗎我可以回應你的質問嗎來我問你的問題林佩祥指揮得了檢調嗎我想我們這個罷免的連署案其實"},{"start":319.048,"end":347.866,"text":"我們今天要抓的一個重點就是有沒有影響到我們選舉罷免的公平性這對我們國家來來來基隆有沒有影響到選舉罷免的公平性這對我們國家來講是非常非常重要的好啦好啦好啦我沒有在跟你講抓我還沒跟你講抓不抓的問題我講的是抓要不要公平啊你當然就問你嘛今天基隆基隆來來對一定會公平的一定會公平一定公平啊好公平啊九英白五爪對乾坤大榮你這超公平的一定非常公平啊"},{"start":350.179,"end":364.433,"text":"不要當大家是瞎子真的 我就直接問你嘛來來來 你的法學素養深厚 兩位齁民主國家齁 有哪個民主國家司法檢調大舉搜索 最大在野黨黨部的"},{"start":365.373,"end":382.82,"text":"其實這個問題其實不需要法學素養很深厚啦現在就是說偽造文書到底是不是犯罪來啦來啦我就問你嘛國際通歷不用法學素養很深厚你就那麼猛為什麼會偽造文書不是犯罪啊不是迫害沒有來回答我啊有沒有哪個民主國家大肆搜索在野黨黨部的"},{"start":383.74,"end":398.663,"text":"搜索需要法官核發的令狀不是說我們要搜索就能夠搜索你們檢察官有沒有申請申請也要提出證據啊我告訴你 司法就綁在一起我現在講的是檢察官是你到現在不敢回答我 因為就是沒有有啦 我錯了 我投降"},{"start":399.324,"end":421.194,"text":"有啦 希特勒有啦希特勒有啦對啊 我有回答你啊我告訴你啊 你回答我什麼哪個國家的名字給我聽 德國嗎哪個國家大肆搜索在野黨黨部嘛好啦 你要跟我鬼打牆金庸第四招 新寫的功夫叫鬼打牆 我也佩服你"},{"start":422.395,"end":441.55,"text":"交給社會公平我回答問你哪個國家到現在一個字都吐不出來一個國家你都吐不出來鬼打牆你逃避問題沒關係我告訴你很簡單大法官說你可以逃避問題說謊都無罪我剛剛已經跟我們部長多次交流這件事情今天我們在這邊我們隨便你們怎麼講來沒關係我來告訴你我現在問你下一個問題這件事啊你們扯到什麼地步"},{"start":451.428,"end":470.101,"text":"啊?扯到什麼地步?共諜案勝處因二十萬交保我的辦公室主任陳冠安也是二十萬交保你們用什麼罪去偵辦他二十萬交保?偽造文書嘛?是不是?"},{"start":471.638,"end":481.922,"text":"這個我們尊重檢察官跟法官這個不是我們的權責我沒有問你權責問題我們尊重檢察官跟法官來來來 部長部長請問用什麼罪用什麼案子用什麼罪名交20萬交保這個涉嫌各司法41條跟刑法210條你看嘛 局長還有那個選罷法98條 局長"},{"start":500.373,"end":513.84,"text":"局長 人家部長就沒個案你就個案 學一下來我肯定啊 部長你緊張什麼對嘛好啦好啦 部長我肯定你啦沒關係啦 我肯定你啦來來來 我肯定你都不行我要否定你才高興公然打臉我們調查局局長 謝謝你他個案咧你狀況外就不要推個案來我想請教你下一個問題啊我告訴你啊 很抱歉很抱歉"},{"start":530.765,"end":538.751,"text":"如果今天陳觀安從頭到尾沒有涉入你講的那個選罷法的所謂偽造連署也好 瑕疵連署也好 死人連署也好請問你們檢方在做這事有沒有涉及濫權啊為什麼要涉及濫權 我告訴你為什麼要這樣問這個怎麼會涉及 這是依法偵辦怎麼會涉及濫權依法偵辦啊 謝謝你我告訴你 別人我不敢講"},{"start":560.373,"end":569.34,"text":"別人我不敢講陳冠安當時罷免雙無的團體希望他站出來來幫忙發聲他有跑來跟我報告我問了他一句話你有沒有參與連署會不會參與連署他說不會 他不參與連署只是站出來講話我跟你賭啦"},{"start":589.414,"end":610.012,"text":"他沒有涉及任何瑕疵連署跟你所謂死亡連署偽造文書啦我保證沒有啦這個我在這邊我不談個案了隨便你啦我不談個案我告訴你 你那千變萬化功很厲害啦對到你今天想答的問題你就沒有個案問題對到你不想答的問題就個案問題我知道啦 部長你現在的習慣是如此啦我又不是不認識你但我要告訴你啊陳關就是沒有涉入啦"},{"start":617.076,"end":628.371,"text":"但是為什麼今天要20萬交保 我跟你講你們陽謀是什麼啦就扣他手機嘛 扣他電腦 手機電腦有沒有扣有沒有扣 不清楚啊 就扣了啦辦公室我的資料有沒有收進去 就收了啦"},{"start":637.432,"end":653.072,"text":"我告訴你我給你一個建議真的拜託你請問我辦公室所有跟陳觀安以及陳觀安參與我辦公室各項群組乃至於陳觀安我們一起在揭弊所集合的群組裡面的所有訊息請問有沒有匯報給我們賴清德總統啊"},{"start":657.612,"end":681.782,"text":"這個怎麼可能呢?當然嘛 你一定說不可能 我知道 我做球給你啊我都沒辦法去做 我做球給你 我就等你否認嘛那你就否認完就好啦我告訴你 獅子賴清德總統今天等著看我羅志強辦公室透明化啦我也直接跟你講 我跟部長講 跟局長講趕快來搜我"},{"start":683.55,"end":701.225,"text":"趕快來搜我 我敞開大門歡迎你們我做好進去的準備了啦 我還不懂你們在幹什麼你從頭到尾搜索陳冠恩 相專無間 自在自強啦他根本沒有任何事 沒有犯任何一點法我吱吱聲響 就是因為我還真的問過他有沒有去參與連署工作 他說沒有"},{"start":712.222,"end":736.497,"text":"只是他們希望他來幫忙講話幫忙講話20萬交保共諜案20萬交保搞了半天幫忙監督民進黨的罪責難是跟共諜案一樣啊部長我跟你講 局長跟你講將心比心啊我今天的感受 請你體諒一下你的辦公室主任被這樣對待我看你要不要站出來講話就是這樣子啊"},{"start":741.733,"end":771.056,"text":"所以我今天說一句實在話今天我們看到你那麼多的一些所謂辯詞 誓詞人民眼睛不瞎啦我在這邊呼籲全台灣人民司法檢調淪落到跟希特勒一樣的時候我告訴你今天封陳冠安的口明天查羅志強的帳後天割台灣人民的喉"},{"start":772.129,"end":781.079,"text":"4月29號 拜託大家上街頭真的拜託大家上街頭我今天看到就是這個樣子謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1332,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時26分）主席，有請部長跟局長。"],["主席：麻煩部長、局長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長、局長，我跟剛剛的啓楷委員不太一樣，我在這邊是要肯定你們，我覺得我們的檢察官跟調查局武功學得很好，我送你們幾句話：武林至尊，綠色檢調，清算天下，莫敢不從！威風！先給你一個大大的讚，肯定！我先來請教一下，對付罷綠，你們的招數叫九陰白骨爪，催破首腦，招招取命，兇狠威風！只要是敢罷民進黨的，你們查領銜人、抓領銜人、押領銜人、查國民黨黨部、清算國民黨黨工，統統抓！直接催破首腦，九陰白骨爪在你們檢調跟法務部的威風之下真的發揮得淋漓盡致！我給你們大大按讚！金庸筆下活靈活現就出了我們一個綠色檢調，九陰白骨爪真的威風啊！","可是我跟您講，您威風的不只是九陰白骨爪，您的乾坤大挪移也讓我嘆為觀止，遇到罷免藍的……有啦！為了要平衡，告訴大家：沒有、沒有，罷藍、罷綠，我都抓。遇到罷免藍的，到基隆去，不一樣欸！表面所謂的辦綠，實際打藍，這個時候就不抓領銜人了，這個時候就不去搜索民進黨的黨部啦？跑去騷擾連署人，大清早六點半去騷擾連署人，太厲害了！金庸都沒你們厲害，太厲害了！嫁禍林沛祥來示警領銜人，抱歉！那些連署人都被搜了，就告訴領銜人，資料該整理一下喔！要躲就躲。我就問一下部長跟局長，奇怪，為什麼遇到罷藍的，到基隆去的時候忽然就不搜領銜人、不押領銜人、不去搜索民進黨的黨部了？這麼溫柔啊？原來還有溫柔版的乾坤大挪移，還是九陰白骨爪只是對著在野黨出？部長，請問。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，因為我也不會介入個案，這個是個案，這有檢察官指揮偵辦犯罪，這個我不指導、不介入……"],["羅委員智強：好啦！金庸第三大招出來叫一推二五六！前面不是振振有詞跟張啓楷辯論？為什麼我現在問到你又答不出來了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是偵查中的案件，我沒辦法……"],["羅委員智強：是啦！是啦！萬用符、保身符啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：對啊！委員，難道你希望……"],["羅委員智強：好啦！沒關係啦！封你一問三不知，統統推個案啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員當然應該不希望我介入到個案的處理吧？所以我也不會去處理個案。"],["羅委員智強：局長，來，我幫你先回答了，不介入個案，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員智強：是喔？感謝您！"],["陳局長白立：偵查不公開。"],["羅委員智強：一問三不知雙人組，加上檢調的所謂九陰白骨爪，配上乾坤大挪移，威風凌厲啦！威風凌厲啦！當國人都傻瓜嗎？看不出來嗎？都看不出來嗎？"],["陳局長白立：是，我想國人應該看得到死亡連署的狀況啦！"],["羅委員智強：有啊、有啊，你有沒有辦基隆？"],["陳局長白立：死亡連署……"],["羅委員智強：有沒有辦基隆？剛剛不是拿基隆做例子，不要說你們辦藍不辦綠，基隆你們辦啦！"],["陳局長白立：對啊！我們辦了基隆，你又說我們太早出門。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！基隆辦了！哇！鼓掌，超讚！太早出門？太早出門查連署人！"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員智強：另外是太早出門去抓領銜人，搜索、羈押……"],["陳局長白立：這個個案我們是依照檢察官的指揮。"],["羅委員智強：喔！又推給檢察官？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員智強：好棒棒的時候就是你們今天沒有差別待遇，有差別待遇的時候推給檢察官，說檢察官自己來決定。我跟你講，你今天只辦藍不辦綠，我們是痛心，你今天為了要假裝藍綠都辦，你搞一個樣板叫基隆，結果目的是赤裸裸去嫁禍林沛祥，很多人都在罵林沛祥啊！林沛祥好恐怖喔！還可以騷擾連署人家裡，林沛祥多冤啊！他指揮得了你檢調嗎？請問，林沛祥指揮得了檢調嗎？這總回答得出來了吧？"],["陳局長白立：報告委員，我可以回應你的質問嗎？"],["羅委員智強：來，我問你的問題，林沛祥指揮得了檢調嗎？"],["陳局長白立：我想這個罷免的連署案，其實我們今天要抓的一個重點就是有沒有影響到選舉罷免的公平性，這對我們國家來講……"],["羅委員智強：來、來、來，基隆有沒有影響到選舉罷免的公平性？"],["陳局長白立：是非常非常重要的。"],["羅委員智強：好啦！好啦！好啦！我還沒跟你講抓不抓的問題，我講的是抓要不要公平啊！我就問你嘛，今天基隆……"],["陳局長白立：當然一定會公平，這一定會公平的，一定會公平。"],["羅委員智強：一定公平啊？好公平啊！九陰白骨爪對乾坤大挪移，你這超公平的！"],["陳局長白立：一定非常公平。"],["羅委員智強：非常猛！不要當大家是瞎子，真的！我就直接問你嘛，來、來、來，你的法學素養深厚，兩位，有哪個民主國家司法檢調大舉搜索最大在野黨黨部的？"],["陳局長白立：其實這個問題不需要法學素養很深厚啦！現在就是說偽造文書到底是不是犯罪的問題。"],["羅委員智強：來啦、來啦，我就問你嘛！國際通例，不用法學素養深厚，你就那麼猛、那麼威，回答我啊！"],["陳局長白立：偽造文書就是犯罪啊！不是迫害！"],["羅委員智強：來，回答我啊！有沒有哪個民主國家大肆搜索在野黨黨部的？"],["陳局長白立：搜索需要法官核發的令狀，不是說我們要搜索就能夠搜索。"],["羅委員智強：你們檢察官有沒有聲請？"],["陳局長白立：聲請也要提出證據啊！要能夠提出證據。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，司法是綁在一起，我現在講的是檢察官。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員智強：你到現在不敢回答我，因為就是沒有！有啦！我錯了，我投降，有啦！希特勒有啦！"],["陳局長白立：沒有啊，我有回答……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不能這樣講。"],["陳局長白立：這個我有回答你啊！對啊，我有回答你啊！"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你……你回答我什麼？哪個國家，你講給我聽！德國嗎？"],["陳局長白立：我們檢察官去搜索，他去聲搜的時候一定要提出證據。"],["羅委員智強：哪個國家大肆搜索在野黨黨部嘛？"],["陳局長白立：一定要提出證據，由法官認同啊！"],["羅委員智強：好啦！你要給我鬼打牆，金庸第四招，新寫的功夫叫鬼打牆！我也佩服你！"],["陳局長白立：這個我不曉得哪一招，這個我不曉得。"],["羅委員智強：交給社會公評，我問你哪個國家，到現在一個字都吐不出來，一個國家你都吐不出來，鬼打牆！你逃避問題沒關係，我告訴你，很簡單，大法官說你可以逃避問題，說謊都無罪！剛剛我已經跟我們部長多次交流這件事情了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不會說謊。"],["陳局長白立：不會，不會說謊，我們在國會殿堂不會說謊。"],["羅委員智強：今天我們在這邊，來，沒關係！我來告訴你，我現在問你下一個問題，這件事你們扯到什麼地步，扯到什麼地步？共諜案盛礎纓20萬交保，我的辦公室主任陳冠安也是20萬交保，你們用什麼罪去偵辦他，20萬交保？偽造文書嘛，是不是？"],["陳局長白立：這個我們尊重檢察官跟法官……"],["羅委員智強：哎呀！又尊重啦？"],["陳局長白立：這個不是我們的權責。"],["羅委員智強：啊？我沒有問你權責問題耶！"],["陳局長白立：這個我們尊重檢察官跟法官……"],["羅委員智強：來，部長，來，部長，請問用什麼罪、用什麼案子、用什麼罪名，讓他20萬交保？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個涉嫌個資法第四十一條跟刑法第兩百一十條。"],["羅委員智強：你看嘛！局長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：還有選罷法第九十八條之二。"],["羅委員智強：局長，人家部長就沒個案，你就個案？學一下！"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，這個就是……"],["羅委員智強：沒有，我肯定啊！部長，你緊張什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不是個案。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：20萬交保，我們要尊重檢察官的……"],["羅委員智強：好啦、好啦，部長，我肯定你啦！沒關係啦，我肯定你啦！肯定你都不行？我否定你才高興？公然打臉我們調查局局長，謝謝你，他說個案耶！你狀況外就不要推個案。","來，我想請教下一個問題，我告訴你，很抱歉！很抱歉！如果今天陳冠安從頭到尾根本沒有涉入你講的那個選罷法所謂偽造連署也好、瑕疵連署也好、死人連署也好，請問你們檢方在做這件事有沒有涉及濫權？為什麼叫涉及濫權？我告訴你為什麼要這樣問！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個怎麼涉及濫權？這是依法偵辦，怎麼會涉及濫權？"],["羅委員智強：好、好、好，依法偵辦，謝謝你。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對啊！這個法院審核過了。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，別人我不敢講……"],["鄭部長銘謙：難道法院也濫權嗎？"],["羅委員智強：等我問完，謝謝您！別人我不敢講，當時罷免雙吳的團體希望陳冠安站出來幫忙發聲，他有跑來跟我報告，我問了他一句話，你有沒有參與連署？會不會參與連署？他說不會，他不參與連署，只是站出來講話，我跟你賭啦！他沒有涉及任何瑕疵連署、死亡連署跟偽造文書，我保證沒有。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我在這邊不談個案。"],["羅委員智強：隨便你。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不談個案。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，你那千變萬化功很厲害，對到你今天想答的問題，就沒有個案問題；對到你不想答的問題，就是個案。我知道，部長，你現在的習慣是如此，我又不是不認識你，但我要告訴你，陳冠安就是沒有涉入，但是為什麼今天要20萬交保，你們的陽謀是什麼？就扣他手機、扣他電腦。手機、電腦有沒有扣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：不清楚啊！就扣了。我辦公室的資料有沒有搜進去？就搜了啦！我給你一個建議，真的拜託你，請問我辦公室所有跟陳冠安有關，以及陳冠安參與我辦公室各項群組，乃至於陳冠安和我們一起在揭弊所集合的群組裡面的所有訊息，請問有沒有彙報給賴清德總統？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個怎麼可能呢？"],["羅委員智強：當然嘛！你一定說不可能，我知道，我做球給你。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我對個案都沒辦法做……"],["羅委員智強：沒有，我做球給你，我就等你否認嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：絕對是不可能的事。"],["羅委員智強：你否認完就好。我告訴你失職，賴清德總統今天等著看我羅智強辦公室透明化，我也直接跟你講、跟部長講、跟局長講，趕快來搜我，我敞開大門歡迎你們，我做好進去的準備了，我還不懂你們在幹什麼，你從頭到尾搜索陳冠安，項莊舞劍志在智強啦！他根本沒有做任何事、沒有犯任何一點法，我知之甚詳，就是因為我還真的問過他有沒有去參與連署工作，他說沒有，只是他們希望他來幫忙講話，幫忙講話20萬交保、共諜案20萬交保，搞了半天，幫忙監督民進黨的罪、責難是跟共諜案一樣。部長跟局長，將心比心，我今天的感受請你體諒一下，你的辦公室主任被這樣對待，我看你要不要站出來講話。","所以我說一句實在話，今天我們看到你那麼多所謂的辯詞、誓詞，人民眼睛不瞎，我在這邊也呼籲全臺灣人民，司法檢調淪落到跟希特勒一樣的時候，今天封陳冠安的口，明天查羅智強的帳，後天割臺灣人民的喉。4月29號真的拜託大家上街頭，我今天看到就是這個樣子，謝謝。"],["主席：好，下一位我們請馬文君委員，馬文君委員、馬文君委員。","接下來就麻煩羅委員代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：有請吳宗憲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-9","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","王義川","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","張啓楷","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、國家安全會議、國\n防部、國家安全局、海洋委員會、內政部警政署、國防部憲兵指揮部、國防部資通電軍指揮部、\n海洋委員會海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「軍事審判專庭（股）之執行現況，並就共諜滲透、機\n敏資訊洩漏等國安事件及忠誠安全查核機制，提出檢討報告及防制措施」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}