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nd":2399.009,"text":"一切的根源都源於沒有工會的保障而被剝奪於行政機構對等協商的權利。"},{"start":2401.877,"end":2426.617,"text":"我聲援消防人員主公會讓消防人員有一個平台對政治利益的介入與干預而能專心於救火救人的本業希望消防署能秉持同理心不要再用言語中、討論中這種敷衍的藉口確保政治"},{"start":2428.257,"end":2444.852,"text":"制定和實施過程中納入第一線的消防同仁的聲音和需求。呼應政府不要對消防同仁打假球。請尊重消防人員的安全與權益。消防同仁加油!臺灣加油!謝謝!謝謝半議員的發言。接下來請登記第4號陳金威委員發言。"},{"start":2464.895,"end":2493.65,"text":"主席、各位官員、各位委員、媒體朋友、大家早安。我今天要講的題目是Taiwan Needs HelpTaiwan Needs HelpTaiwan Needs Help我要很沉重地呼籲臺灣現在面臨非常嚴峻的護理荒、輸疫荒、各層級的醫療院所、基層醫師們都在哀嚎、急診湧射、關病床、"},{"start":2494.33,"end":2495.251,"text":"台灣CanHelp!"},{"start":2515.551,"end":2531.317,"text":"現在呢,我們竟然要透過海外專案來進口,以兩到三倍的價格購買輸液。到底發生了什麼事?短短的一個月,我們從Taiwan can help變成Taiwan needs help。"},{"start":2532.287,"end":2559.635,"text":"缺乏輸液不只是醫療問題,更是國安危機。如此基本物資幾乎是所有急診、住院、手術都會需要的。如果近期不幸發生重大公安事件或天災意外,我完全不敢想像在醫療現場煉獄般的畫面,哀嚎、怒吼、缺輸液、缺醫護人手、還缺藥品。"},{"start":2560.835,"end":2584.126,"text":"現在各層級的醫院也正面臨著護理師人力不足的問題但因為衛福部只能提供特定容量的生理鹹水導致在整個手術或是洗腎過程中護理師必須不斷地去打開不同容液的輸液更是在我們現在護理師荒的議題上雪上加霜"},{"start":2585.146,"end":2600.94,"text":"而書議會大缺最根本的原因就是健保給付對藥品的點值設定過低,最終沒有任何廠家願意生產,淪為一家或少數幾家獨佔的市場,一旦出狀況就會跟現在一樣釀成大災難。"},{"start":2605.287,"end":2629.41,"text":"我也必須說這場事件就是衛福部造成的人禍因為去年12月11月食藥署就公告出事的廠家輸液出現黑色的懸浮粒需要緊急回收表示衛福部跟食藥署早就知道兩個重大的警訊第一是品管有問題"},{"start":2630.451,"end":2647.229,"text":"）二、這個廠商占市場比例高達八成）如果有突發狀況）就會一發不可收拾）結果我們是毫無作為）最後呢）說輸易供貨穩定要到10月份）是不是表示接下來4個月臺灣"},{"start":2652.97,"end":2660.078,"text":"謝謝陳敬威委員的發言。報告委員會現在登記國是論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢。我們現在休息。"},{"start":5403.001,"end":5421.996,"text":"發言委員現在我們繼續開會。請秘書長報告出席人數。發言委員出席為53年已足法定人數。我們現在開會進行報告事項。請秘書長宣讀第一會期第19次會議意思錄。宣讀六案第11屆第一會期第19次會議意思錄。時間中華民國113年6月21日上午9時至9時27分、10時至10時16分、6月25日"},{"start":5429.682,"end":5457.378,"text":"上午9時20分至12時下午1時50分至1時55分20分至30分至45分地點北越異常出席委員、盧委員、縣議等113人、內席官員、行政院院長卓榮泰等12人、主席院長韓國瑜、副院長江啟臣。報告事項第一案宣讀第11屆第1會期第18次會議意思錄決定確定。第二案第4至31案均決定交互相關委員會審查。第三案決定"},{"start":5458.158,"end":5482.714,"text":"進入報讀與相關提案並按協商執行事項甲﹚行政院答覆部門奧見與本院委員執行部門奧見。護議案則處理事項﹚決議立完執行行事法修正部門條文及中華民國憲法增訂第五章之一章名及第141條之一條文護議案本院原決議均予以維持﹚對行政院院長報告施政方針"},{"start":5484.756,"end":5508.929,"text":"繼續質詢決定下次會議進行經濟組織質詢討論事項第一次商案均決議含請行政院員處第四案決議另定期處理宣讀完畢報告委員會針對第一會期第19次會議的意思錄並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們做以下決定第一會期第19次會議意思錄我們確定請宣讀第二案"},{"start":5509.673,"end":5521.834,"text":"第2案 本院委員李婚晨的19人離聚,勞動基準法第20條及第20條之一條文修正常案請選一案。程序委員會見,臨時委員會交 社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣言完畢"},{"start":5522.557,"end":5549.268,"text":"第二案,無異通過下案。第三案,本院委員李關誠等19人鄰居,性別平等工作法第15條條文修正常案情緒一案,程序委員會見,理情會交,社會福利及外相環境委員會審查,宣讀外閉。無異通過下案。第四案,本院委員李關誠等19人鄰居,就業服務法第5條條文修正常案情緒一案,程序委員會見,理情會交,社會福利及外相環境委員會審查,宣讀外閉。無異通過下案。"},{"start":5549.648,"end":5570.811,"text":"第五案,北越委員吳麗華等16人離聚,並暫管理條例第21條11條維修正財運清水案。陳修緣會間,理情委員會交到內政委員會審查,宣傳完畢。第六案,北越委員林楚英等21人離聚,青年基本法財運清水案。陳修緣會間,理情委員會交到教育及文化委員會審查,宣傳完畢。"},{"start":5571.591,"end":5573.052,"text":"第七案．第八案．第八案．"},{"start":5596.277,"end":5618.584,"text":"報告院會報告事項第8案現由國民黨黨團體近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商請問院會有無異議?沒有異議通過我們下一案第9案委員員蘇清泉的二十九人離去就業服務法第四十六條條文修正常情緒一案程序委員會建立行會教育社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣傳完畢"},{"start":5619.775,"end":5641.332,"text":"報告事項第9案,現有國民黨黨團體近乎二讀與相關提案並案協商。請問院會有無異議,免議通過下一案。第10案,本院委員蘇慶璇的26人鄰居老人福利法第22條條維修政策案請選一案。程序委員會間,你請委員會交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查,宣言完畢。"},{"start":5642.134,"end":5666.455,"text":"報告委員會報告事項第10案,現有國民黨黨團提議,近乎二讀與相關提案並案協商,請問有無異議?沒有異議,通過下一案。第11案,本院委員蘇清泉等17人離去勞工保險條例第63條文書證草原侵水案,程序委員會接地勤會教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣傳異議。無異議,通過下一案。"},{"start":5666.795,"end":5689.348,"text":"第12案本月委員洪孟凱等16人離聚保險法第177條條文修正常案請審議案陳秀園會見理情匯交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢第13案本月委員洪孟凱等16人離聚高級中等交易法第32條條文修正常案請審議案陳秀園會見理情匯交交易及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5690.769,"end":5719.328,"text":"第14案 北越委員洪孟凱等18人離聚,學校凡人及其所屬私立學校教職員退休復讐離職之前條例第8條條文修正常情水銀案。陳秀妍會見理行會教司法及法制教育及文化兩務委員會審查。宣言完畢。第15案 北越委員令一卿等24人離聚,私立學校法第39條及第57條條文修正常情水銀案。陳秀妍會見理行會教教育及文化兩務委員會審查。宣言完畢。"},{"start":5720.909,"end":5744.904,"text":"第16案本月委員陳學生的20年年居北疆語言方針法第16條條無修正草原情緒因案陳修緣會見理情會教教育及文化委員會審查宣布完畢第17案本月委員陳學生的20年年居濱源地區學校教育發展條例第8條條無修正草原情緒因案陳修緣會見理情會教教育及文化委員會審查宣布完畢"},{"start":5746.385,"end":5766.94,"text":"第18案本院委員陳學生等20人凝聚偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第18條條文修正財運情勢一案陳修園會見尼勤會教教育及文化委員會審查宣傳閉第19案本院委員李燕秀等17人凝聚都市更新條例第65條條文修正財運情勢一案陳修園會見尼勤會教內政委員會審查宣傳閉"},{"start":5771.883,"end":5792.658,"text":"第20案,為議員林思敏等16日離聚,農村再生條例第二條及第7條條文修正草原清水案。陳秀園會見,理事委員會將經濟文化審查宣布完畢。報告院會報告事項第20案,現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商。請問院會有沒有異議?沒有異議通過。我們下一案。"},{"start":5793.157,"end":5819.337,"text":"第21案本院委員陳少明等16人離去勞工保險條例第63條條維修正常勤選案陳修元會見你請回交社會福利及外相環境委員會審查 宣言完畢無疑通過下案第22案本院委員徐玉珍等18人離去身心障礙者選疫保障法第53條條維修正常勤選案陳修元會見你請回交社會福利及外相環境委員會審查 宣言完畢無疑通過下案"},{"start":5819.718,"end":5847.2,"text":"第二十三案本院委員邱振軍等19人離聚身心障礙者權益保障法第53條條維修正常案請水恩前序委員會見你請回交社會福利及外商環境委員會審查宣布完畢第二十四案本院委員邱振軍等21人離聚國民年金法第15條集體50條條維修正常案請水恩前序委員會見你請回交社會福利及外商環境委員會審查宣布完畢第二十四案"},{"start":5847.6,"end":5859.084,"text":"第25案本院委員黃仁等21人聯聚援助民族基本法第6條條文修正草原侵水案。陳秀媛會見您請回交內政委員會審查。宣布完畢無疑通過下一案"},{"start":5871.269,"end":5895.332,"text":"第二十七案本月委員黃仁等二十人聯聚原住民族基本法陣列第28條之一條文草案請水案。展秀委員會議見臨時會交內政委員會審查。宣傳完畢第二十八案本月委員黃仁等二十人聯聚老人福利法第二條條文修正草案請水案展秀委員會議見臨時會交社會福利修正環境委員會審查。宣傳完畢五一通過下一案"},{"start":5895.652,"end":5905.601,"text":"第29案本院委員嚴冠案等17年離聚中小企業發展條例第36條及2條維修正常勞勤稅案。前續委員會見例行會交經濟委員會審查,宣布外幣。報告委員會報告事項第29案現有國民黨黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商。請問委員會有異議。"},{"start":5917.091,"end":5928.071,"text":"沒有異議,我們通過。報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁盯的是美國回來的所有的華僑朋友。歡迎大家,我們掌聲鼓勵,歡迎歡迎。"},{"start":5929.898,"end":5936.881,"text":"下議案第31案本院委員羅廷偉等19人凝聚財政收支劃分法部分條維修政策案請審議案。陳秀妍會議間臨時會交財政委員會審查。 宣告完畢無疑通過下議案"},{"start":5954.71,"end":5976.378,"text":"第32案本委員徐繳興等17人離聚動物保護法部分條維修正常請申議案。程序委員會見你請回交經濟委員會審查,宣布外幣。第33案本委員邱若驊等17人離聚社會秩序維護法第64條條維修正常請申議案。程序委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查,宣布外幣。"},{"start":5977.799,"end":6001.025,"text":"第34案本院委員邱若驊等19人離聚社會秩序維護法第72條條文修正草原情緒一案陳秀元會見你請回交內政委員會審查宣布完畢無異通過下議案第35案本院委員盧憲怡等22人離聚都市原住民族無法審條例草原情緒一案陳秀元會見你請回交內政委員會審查宣布完畢無異通過下議案"},{"start":6002.045,"end":6020.934,"text":"第36案（本院委員羅廷偉等18人離聚職務者流失法草案請選一案（程序委員會見你請回家後經濟委員會審查（宣言完畢第37案（本院委員蘇星泉等24人離聚口腔衛生人員法草案請選一案（程序委員會見你請回家後社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查（宣言完畢"},{"start":6023.635,"end":6049.23,"text":"李三十八案本院委員林俊賢等18日臨時學生輔導法第11條及第11條之一條為修正草案請審議案。陳秀元會議見李秀元教育及文化委員會審查宣布完畢。李三十九案本院委員吳麗華等18日臨時社會救助法第5條之二第11條及第21條條為修正草案請審議案。陳秀元會議見李秀元教育社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣布完畢。"},{"start":6049.89,"end":6051.572,"text":"五一通過下議案五一通過下議案五一通過下議案"},{"start":6072.293,"end":6072.874,"text":"第42案．第43案．"},{"start":6092.133,"end":6120.512,"text":"無異通過下議案。第44案本院委員令引進理政委前提之青年基本法層文案。陳修永會見理政委統一撤回。宣告完畢。無異通過下議案。第45案本院委員令引進理政委前提之數位新聞發展與民主任性法層文案。陳修永會見理政委統一撤回。宣告完畢。無異通過下議案。第46案行政院海警隨意新住民權益保障法層文案。陳修永會見理政委交內政委員會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":6121.209,"end":6146.621,"text":"報告院會報告事項第46案,現有民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商。請問院會有異議?沒有異議,通過下一案。第47案,行政院罕請選議職務整領釋法採文案,程序委員會間領行會交經濟委員會審查,宣傳完畢。無異議,通過下一案。第48案,行政院罕請選議國一台灣鐵路股份有限公司稅制條例第10條及第23條條維修證採文案,"},{"start":6149.242,"end":6149.562,"text":"無異議通過下案無異議通過下案"},{"start":6166.047,"end":6181.414,"text":"第五十案,教育部行會該部一百十三年度預算,學生事務與特殊教育行政及督導向下經常門業務費等經費不足,同時第一預備金新台幣一六千一百四十一萬七千元,程序委員會建立行會教育界文化委員會,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6182.895,"end":6202.888,"text":"第51案（行政院衡委考慮宣布,擴大推動國家考試電腦化測驗所需經費不敷,同時113年度中央政府總預算第二月備金8,810萬4千元之印,自檢送第二月備金同時數額及官別票,程序委員會議見,履行會交財政司法及法治兩委員會。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6204.609,"end":6217.578,"text":"第52案 行政院總公告中華民國113年4月3日花蓮震災災區範圍新增新北市部分,並自113年4月3日生效財修委員會見,引請回交內政委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6219.119,"end":6247.254,"text":"第53案,經濟委員會本月第11屆第一會期第11次會議權益,要求經濟部針對臺灣準點能源政策,定價費率結構及臺電公司相關各項支出及遵截措施,向本月經濟委員會提出全面檢討報告,檢討經濟部延長說明資料。陳秀元會見,理事委會前後經濟委員會。宣讀完畢。報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查。本案交經濟委員會審查。下一案"},{"start":6247.779,"end":6273.912,"text":"第五十四案．經濟委員會本月第11屆第一會期第11次會議決議．立即停止調賞電價．並要求該院責准商會部會即刻檢討現行的原政策．並提出因應對策與配套措施一案．結送經濟部嚴處說明資料．程序委員會見．立行會交經濟委員會宣讀完畢報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6274.366,"end":6275.147,"text":"第55案）第56案）第56案）"},{"start":6305.29,"end":6324.347,"text":"第57案（內政務海外修正國家駐載及都市更新中心董事長董事監視聆聽辦法第二條條文,程序委員會見,您請回交內政委員會,宣布外閉。第58案（內政務海外修正內政務移民署人員服事辦法,程序委員會見,您請回交內政委員會,宣布外閉。"},{"start":6325.083,"end":6327.846,"text":"五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案"},{"start":6349.966,"end":6363.423,"text":"第61案海洋委員會航運修正海洋委員會海巡署偵查分數編制表並自112年10月26日生效程序委員會見立即會將司法及法律內政兩委員會宣讀完畢。為通過下一案"},{"start":6363.929,"end":6383.376,"text":"第62案國防部海文修正國軍軍官使館請教規則第6條條文陳修緣會見李行輝強外交及國防委員會宣讀完畢第63案強武委員會海文修正強武文教財團法人應適用財團法人法第24條第二項規定之財產總額及傳信經營規範指導原則第16點規定陳修緣會見李行輝強外交及國防委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6391.179,"end":6403.322,"text":"第64案 農業部委員會修正白袋魚出口應遵行施生 第2點、第4點規定及第3點附件一、第6點附件二﹐程序委員會見臨時公會交通經濟委員會 宣讀完畢第65案 農業部委員會非准許新建業農業委員會 會議規則﹐程序委員會見臨時公會交通經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6413.025,"end":6424.802,"text":"第66案 農業部海外修正農民健康保險及農民職業災害保險專業事項審議本法 第1條、第2條、第24條條文件、第3條副表 程序委員會見您請回交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6427.426,"end":6435.095,"text":"第67案 農業部衡議期間與農業委員會、農田水利署、彰化管理署、農田水利設施範圍 名稱修正為 農業部農田水利署、彰化管理署、農田水利設施範圍並修正設施範圍 程序委員會見 您請回交經濟委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6445.106,"end":6451.711,"text":"第68案 農業部外匯修正農業部農田水利署臺中管理處農田水利設施範圍陳秀營會見臨時匯交經濟委員會 宣布完畢第69案 農業部外匯修正農業部農田水利署營覽管理處農田水利設施範圍陳秀營會見臨時匯交經濟委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6466.283,"end":6478.627,"text":"第七十二、金融監督管理委員會海外修正、財政部保險業辦理資訊公開管理辦法第8條、第13條條文、集權稅保險業辦理資訊公開管理辦法第8條、第13條條文、財政委員會宣布完畢。第七十一、金融監督管理委員會交通部海外修正、強制汽車責任保險費率表及強制汽車責任保險期間、財政委員會宣布完畢。"},{"start":6496.26,"end":6518.731,"text":"報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨黨團體改交審查本案交財政及交通兩委員會審查下一案第七選案國家通訊消防委員會函送電信事業用戶號碼使用管理辦法程序委員會間旅行會交交通委員會宣傳完畢報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨黨團體改交審查本案交交通委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6519.141,"end":6540.764,"text":"第73案 交通部海外修正水域油氣活動管理辦法部分條文 程序委員會見理行會交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第74案 交通部海外修正交通部公路局高雄區建立所編制表及交通部公路局高雄市區建立所編制表 程序委員會見理行會交司法及法制交通兩委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6542.245,"end":6567.53,"text":"第七十五案防護部函文修正防護財政法人全新經營指導原則第六點規定程序委員會見理情會交司法及法制委員會。宣言完畢無異通過下議案第七十六案教育部函宗高級中等下學校學生申訴及再申訴評議委員會組織及運作辦法第二條修正條文對照表堪勿表程序委員會見理情會交教務及文化委員會。宣言完畢無異通過下議案"},{"start":6567.97,"end":6568.73,"text":"無異議通過下議案。"},{"start":6583.098,"end":6583.839,"text":"第78案．第79案．第19案．"},{"start":6604.714,"end":6606.075,"text":"無異議通過下一案無異議通過下一案"},{"start":6622.728,"end":6623.469,"text":"第81案）第82案）第82案）"},{"start":6647.489,"end":6650.592,"text":"五一通過下議案五一通過下議案五一通過下議案"},{"start":6667.666,"end":6670.507,"text":"委員．完整會議委員．完整會議委員．完整會議委員．完整會議"},{"start":6693.135,"end":6713.059,"text":"第87案,衛生福利不含重,全國性衛生財團法人及醫療財團法人全性經營規範遵守原則,持續委員會見,立行會交由社會福利及衛生環境委員會。宣傳完畢。報告委員會本案由國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交由社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。下一案"},{"start":6713.513,"end":6735.437,"text":"第88案 衛生福利部海外修正 全民健康保險醫療服務解副項目及支付標準部分診療項目 並自113年5月1日生效 向衆院會見 立行委員交 社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳完畢報言會本案由國民黨黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6736.055,"end":6751.313,"text":"第892環境部海外修正環境保護財團法人設立許可及監督辦法程序委員會間以及環交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢報告委員會本案由國民黨黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6751.806,"end":6772.942,"text":"第九十二 環境部海委修正環境交易法施行席責第七條條文,採訊委員會見。您請回交社會福利及外商環境委員會。宣讀完畢。第九十一案 環境部海委修正機車陪伴空氣污染物、經驗站設置及管理辦法部分條文。採訊委員會見。您請回交社會福利及外商環境委員會。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6773.769,"end":6797.083,"text":"報告委員會本案由國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交由社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案第92案環境部海維修政事業廢棄物經理計劃書審查管理辦法部分調溫請學員會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳完畢報告委員會本案由國民黨黨團提議改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6797.54,"end":6817.268,"text":"第93環境部函宋112年水污染防水基金執行績效報告,程序委員會皆履行會交社會福利及物質環境委員會﹐宣讀完畢。第94案﹐財政部函宋經濟部112年電動車輛免准使用牌照稅效益說明,程序委員會皆履行會交財政委員會﹐宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6817.748,"end":6831.385,"text":"報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查報告委員會第95案至第251案請依序宣讀其中第115案、124案、145案、196案"},{"start":6836.191,"end":6839.935,"text":"211到214案國民黨黨團提議改交審查。第104、111、127、152到154、156、157、162、209、210案臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查。"},{"start":6858.712,"end":6871.617,"text":"宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委會審查。區議案均照程序委員會意見通過。請問院會有無異議。無異議我們宣讀之後通過。請宣讀。"},{"start":6873.325,"end":6897.142,"text":"第九五案及第九六案﹐內政部﹐第九七案﹐原住民族委員會﹐第九八案﹐核能安全委員會﹐第九九案﹐國家科學及技術委員會﹐第一百案﹐交通部﹐第一零一案﹐直提一一九案﹐行政院﹐第一二零案﹐直提一三六案﹐內政部﹐第一三七案﹐直提一四一案﹐原住民族委員會﹐第一四二案﹐直提一五零案﹐中央選舉委員會﹐第一五一案﹐大陸委員會﹐第一五二案﹐直提一六二案﹐經濟部�"},{"start":6900.825,"end":6926.73,"text":"第166案立法院秘書長,第167案監察院,第168案公務人員保障及培訓委員會,第169案局第23案衛生福利部,第139案局第250案環境部,第251案司法院,還為113年度相關預算,中央政府以後強化經濟與社會熱性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算,113年度中央政府總預算等預算決議,分別解送相關報告,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6929.042,"end":6942.918,"text":"委員會第252案以下一併請一併宣讀。宣讀之後除第264案同意展延審查期限外其餘個案均准予被查請宣讀。"},{"start":6943.806,"end":6971.276,"text":"第252案及第253案為本院內政委會函,為院會交付原住民組委員會11306中央政府準選決議等案,亦經處理完均。第254案及第258案為本院司法及法制經濟、外交及國防、社會福利及衛生環境委會函,為院會交付審查相關行政命令,均已於法庭轉延審查及審查期限。第259案及第267案為本院司法及法制經濟、社會福利及衛生環境"},{"start":6972.316,"end":7001.03,"text":"江東內政委會含委員會將會審查相關行政命令,均已於立法院職權行使法第61條鎖定審查期限。第26頒案為行政院韓送本院張委員致論等,鎖定臨時提案之嚴處進行。質詢事項將行政院答覆部分,行政院韓送本院羅委員致強鎖定質詢之書面答覆共一件,以本院委員質詢部分,本院黃委員見好等將行政院提出質詢共五件。宣讀完畢"},{"start":7005.265,"end":7029.865,"text":"報告議員會,現在我們對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。在進行質詢之前,我們先請秘書長報告各部會首長請假情況。報告議員會,行政院來函經濟部國部長智輝本日因公請假,由陳市長正旗代表列席。報告完畢。報告議員會,我們今天進行個人質詢、經濟組織質詢。首先,我們請賴世保委員質詢。"},{"start":7049.515,"end":7055.337,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請行政院的卓院長。麻煩請卓院長備詢。拜會員好。院長好。這個我們的陸委會剛宣布"},{"start":7074.941,"end":7099.334,"text":"說調升中國大陸港澳旅遊警示為橙色燈號建議我們國人避免非必要的旅行這個事情到底請問你有沒有參與這個事我當然了解你當然了解嗎你也支持這樣做支持但是不要忘了賴清德總統在520演說他講這樣一段話"},{"start":7104.332,"end":7126.157,"text":"他講兩岸交流可以重啟雙邊對等的觀光旅遊開始沒有忘記這一句話他講的喔 是結果現在上台不到一個月就把他掐死了現在來講 欸 你說非必要旅行這個來講就比照以色列 以色列最賤的"},{"start":7128.109,"end":7141.686,"text":"對阿這樣子來講我是不瞭解啦齁這到底是為什麼現在要做這樣的一個限制旅遊業主要說阿這戲阿本來對賴總統有很大的期待覺得說哇春暖花開喔哇你講到這裡水開喔"},{"start":7144.589,"end":7154.658,"text":"關公旅遊開始,兩岸交流,結果現在變惡意的堆疊。老共記住這個,我們就打出這個,老共記住這個,我們就這樣子。這兩岸的惡意螺旋越來越上升了。我的重點在後面,這個只要你簡短的回答。"},{"start":7171.967,"end":7184.53,"text":"報告委員我們也看到6月21日中國當局對於所謂臺獨份子的定義加注了很多不應該有的限制。我們第一個保障國人去到"},{"start":7185.606,"end":7185.786,"text":"委員您錯了"},{"start":7214.119,"end":7215.561,"text":"我要強調的是旅遊業已經苦了這麼久了啦"},{"start":7233.697,"end":7254.808,"text":"好,這東西我就請,我就問你喔,真的你們只有政治嗎?只有這樣對抗嗎?大家都了解嘛,這個其實是假保護台灣人民,其實它就是隔絕,一步一步走向台獨,未來就是跟中國大陸完全切掉嘛,這個是這樣而已,好,我就問你,這樣子,我這一頁就跳過了,請問你,這個要維持多久?"},{"start":7259.275,"end":7274.345,"text":"看中國的態度要維持多久?有沒有未來會進一步的變紅色?有沒有可能?看中國的態度有沒有改變?所以不排除變紅色的喔?現在不能做這種預言式的質詢很可怕!預言式的質詢很可怕!不能做這種預言式的質詢!我在跟你講第二遍喔!我講話你不要插話!你剛剛有問我啊!不是!我請你講你才講嘛!你插話你插話!你剛剛有問我啊!"},{"start":7287.399,"end":7315.327,"text":"我現在就問你你沒有回答嘛我說有沒有可能進一步提升是不是不排除以後可能變紅色這種預言式的質詢很可怕要看對方的態度我們希望就此和緩改變態度大家都能夠和平理性的交流我們看這一陣子有所謂的陸媒陸媒盯哨爭論節目大家去撲撲像外界高度質疑行政院"},{"start":7316.434,"end":7316.994,"text":"有人在進行了解"},{"start":7346.261,"end":7365.914,"text":"開始調查就這個意思了齁我們看臺電的虧損累計虧損3800多億了齁而且國務部長阿偉大的郭志輝阿對外說他不要政府的補貼所以院長你聽好喔不准這樣講喔主計長前一陣子還來找我說我們1000億要給臺電的現在買!買!"},{"start":7371.991,"end":7389.207,"text":"不要啦!國資會說不用啦!不要一千億啦!企業經營自負盈虧!所以這個如果也不要這個一千億累積虧損三千八百多億,還有一條,還有一個東西來!院長我就問你喔!合適資產怎麼處理?兩千八百多億,其實六個資產捏!"},{"start":7391.226,"end":7398.289,"text":"他現在你們不要啦!你確定不要啦!不要了就應該變成廢資產啦!要資產減掉2800多,所以虧損的3800加2800等於虧損6000多億啊!你有了解一點嗎?請問你怎麼處理?請問你怎麼處理?"},{"start":7407.492,"end":7408.652,"text":"兩千八百多位的合適怎麼處理?"},{"start":7408.652,"end":7426.579,"text":"郭部長用他企業經營的精神,他是說未來臺電好好的經營可以朝向自主性的發展去,所以不要,但是現在臺電負有很多的政策目標,做很多的政策補貼,政府自主的這個撥補是應該的,目前這個階段,但未來我們需要臺電..."},{"start":7427.879,"end":7433.361,"text":"國部長用他企業經營觀念,未來臺電如果自主是全民高興的事情啊。那你能不能承諾,今年電價不要漲,可以嗎?"},{"start":7452.651,"end":7454.473,"text":"院長你知道嗎?我們三分之二的勞工"},{"start":7470.149,"end":7482.7,"text":"領不到平均薪資啊!四萬塊四萬多啊!上午之後百分之六十八領不到平均薪資大家去記很壞鬼還要漲電價!"},{"start":7482.7,"end":7493.269,"text":"對不對所以你不敢承諾今天不漲電價喔!不敢承諾!委員你比我清楚這電價審議委員會要審議的我只告訴大家今年已經漲過我們會考慮名聲、考慮物價、考慮產業的需求"},{"start":7504.895,"end":7523.57,"text":"我們努力維持各項的穩定努力維持物價的穩定跟民生的需求會全力的努力維持希望委員跟我們一起讓臺電體質能夠更好盡量不要漲定價你就不敢承認了你就不敢接受我一直跟你說這客氣啊"},{"start":7525.27,"end":7529.493,"text":"這個啊你說交給審議委員會這個叫騙人的啦其實是政策主導的來我們來看喔賴清德跟卓榮泰是不同調的或者唱雙簧他現在成立一個叫做"},{"start":7554.744,"end":7579.384,"text":"事後委員會在總統府裡面,其實就是永續經營的概念,同時前最近放炮了,這真是事情。他說,蔡英文政府的檢探成績不如馬英九政府。他講的,核電應該佔三成,綠電佔三成,四成是火力。他講這個概念。"},{"start":7580.998,"end":7605.697,"text":"總統府怎麼講咧?尊重啊!沒有授意啊!你繼續說!繼續說!繼續說!欸奇怪,他講成是打你的臉咧!那個...那個...左院長你也很了解啊!這每天都有講啊!賴清德第一人選的行政院長Premier行政院長是童子賢不是卓榮泰!你那天不是說是林佳龍嗎?不...不說那些啊!"},{"start":7606.394,"end":7630.802,"text":"那當委員前天說是林佳龍今天又變童子賢什麼東西林佳龍想當行政院長不是賴清德屬於他他想當行政院長對不對但是呢賴清德確實找童子賢要接行政院長報告委員最重要的是今天就是我站在這裡跟你討論國是這個才重要好那我就跟你講清楚我們講清楚現在童子賢這樣講囉"},{"start":7632.577,"end":7647.081,"text":"某種程度是代表賴清德的意思,他是氣候委員會的副召集人,召集人就是賴清德總統,他某種程度,所以請問你還堅持非核家園嗎?請問,會長"},{"start":7650.151,"end":7669.272,"text":"報告委員非核家園是2002年環境基本法23條所定的我們都應該守法吧這裡23條說政府應訂定計畫逐步達成非核家園目標當訂這個條文的時候委員也應該在立法院裡面你現在來講齁下個月核三廠的一號機停掉了核電佔的不到10%"},{"start":7670.553,"end":7679.523,"text":"所以,如果你這樣講的話,阿就簡單啦,我的解讀就是,來,卓榮泰,過得了,你的票過得了,我的非核家園,來,現在開始騙啦騙啦。"},{"start":7682.648,"end":7698.64,"text":"啊!永和的來喔!所以把他的base加到他現在只有40%他就變成希望變成45%變成50%!就是這樣子而已啊!一切就是為了政治!那個可以修!那個太簡單了!那個可以修!當然可以修!為什麼不能修呢?現在你也要依法我也要依法!"},{"start":7704.985,"end":7709.509,"text":"那現在要看核管法的規定我們能不能有權力有能力去這樣做?"},{"start":7723.613,"end":7744.526,"text":"國部長很奇怪,他說台灣人很奇怪,我覺得郭志偉才奇怪,他跑到美國罵台灣人勒,有這樣的部長,有這樣的經濟部長跑去美國罵台灣人,台灣人好奇怪喔,火電也不要啦,這個光電也不要啦,風電也不要啦,火力也不要啦。"},{"start":7745.186,"end":7749.71,"text":"國務部長的意思是說大家要支持國人支持台電的電力開發計畫我們多元發展綠能"},{"start":7769.631,"end":7774.996,"text":"臺灣人好奇怪,我都覺得郭志輝好奇怪,怎麼跑去美國罵臺灣人,好奇怪的郭志輝啊,怎麼可以這樣子呢?來!"},{"start":7789.605,"end":7806.775,"text":"他講過,如果原理修法通過,合法合三可以延20年30年,我們現在有法在那裡。現在最大的就是那個合法相關的,要原理要5年前申請,我們現在把5年拉掉。現在還沒有審,審如果通過的話,請問卓院長你還不要提復議?如果這個法通過了。對不起,哪個法通過?合法?"},{"start":7818.062,"end":7820.964,"text":"世界潮流世界潮流現在是減碳不減核"},{"start":7842.455,"end":7871.636,"text":"多少的國家現在都拼命擁抱核電只有我們要死抱著非核我就問你這個東西很明確的我時間不多如果我們通過把那個五年拿掉你要不要提呼應請問新的法令法案通過之後我們都要看他有沒有自在難行如果沒有自在難行我們當然會照法令來自在難行沒有啊這個通過就是可以核電才可以演藝當然這個就跟你的朋友家裡完全conflict矛盾了大家啦"},{"start":7872.455,"end":7896.722,"text":"言議要3到5年是沒有辦法發電的委員難道不知道嗎?我找了多少的核電專家我坐下來討論了幾次那個要經過安全檢查大概一年的時間之後重新set up大概另外一年大概兩年多一點就可以重新還要態換設備還要安全總體檢現在等一下我們蘇委員就會下一段就會講了現在你們都"},{"start":7899.543,"end":7903.164,"text":"最後一個題目啊現在全世界我們大家都在搶人啦我們國資委講的喔16年內50萬個人50萬人有沒有可能的國話會的題目老實講國話會"},{"start":7927.397,"end":7931.309,"text":"請問我們有沒有可能學川普降落來美國讀書給你綠卡?"},{"start":7934.226,"end":7935.007,"text":"委員可以一起支持?"},{"start":7958.11,"end":7959.33,"text":"接下來我們請登記第二位蘇清泉委員質詢。"},{"start":7998.874,"end":8012.284,"text":"謝謝主席,我請主委員長。麻煩再請主委員長備詢。第一階段請經濟部,第二階段請農業部。現在要請經濟部備詢嗎?主委員,現在要請經濟部,麻煩請經濟部備詢。好,下一張。主委員好。好,主委員長辛苦了。不會,應該的。"},{"start":8026.697,"end":8054.763,"text":"這兩天我到恆春,因為我常去河山場。河山場我差不多去一直集作。那河山場的廠長我們都很熟練。那我去河山場旁邊叫做大光禮。大光禮我叫了一個姨外阿嬤貴姓。我就把這位議員代表、鄉長,恆春本土四個鄉長、鄉長跟一些主席,也有男的也有女的,"},{"start":8055.902,"end":8061.588,"text":"他們合論後的結果,跟我們兩個,我想一定要注意聽一下。他們說,我們在這裡參加河山場35年,我們都沒有意見,我們都同意原意,"},{"start":8071.812,"end":8097.92,"text":"我們愛是什麼?因為愛,因為愛是他們的福利比較好。因為愛是他們的醫療要比較好。比如說我們鄉村旅遊醫院,蘇春昌那個時候給它改成旅遊醫院。他們希望能改回來部立醫院。昨天早上在考慮一下。因為覺得旅遊醫院太狹隘了。醫院的存在就是要給當地,給當地。"},{"start":8102.762,"end":8116.008,"text":"醫院的服務是以當地百分之八十為服務當地的。外來的、旅遊的等等那個突發的差不多佔百分之二十而已啦。所以這個他們希望改回來。那他們的一個質疑就是,啊我們在這附近的河山場這樣共辦三四十年,我們都沒意見,啊平平都不錯。"},{"start":8129.588,"end":8143.535,"text":"我都沒有意見,我已經做過兩次,差不多76%以上的被審也沒有反對,都同意原意。我都沒有意見,你台北有什麼意見,是在做什麼?美麗,更加嚴重。這個河山場的土地,整宿是600公頃,有它起來,有400公頃,一定你可能也不知道。現在,"},{"start":8159.321,"end":8178.745,"text":"這兩天下午,剛才在閣那邊,左邊那邊,吃飯的時候民宅很小,那400公頃,現在我們的光電業者迫不及待,已經在整理草地了,這裡有草地的所在,要蓋光電板了。他們說,怎麼會這樣蓋,這樣蓋,到底民進黨蓋光電業就是掛外侵,到底蓋了多少,還是到底是"},{"start":8188.681,"end":8197.387,"text":"這是他們的質疑。這兩點,院長,稍微舒克一下。這是我自己的反應。這不是藍、不是綠,是在地的鄉親事大。下一張。這就是我們屏東的車廂。車廂這塊地,你有看到嗎?這大片,以前通過的。這樣光天夜澤跟布瓦風。"},{"start":8215.438,"end":8224.024,"text":"來來來蘇貞昌講平和公路最美麗的風景線這樣這個最美麗的風景線這種長這麼大長現在是河山長四百公頃中看光電板所產生的電力差不多三點多億度一年"},{"start":8241.107,"end":8268.753,"text":"那河山場兩個爐子它的產電量一年差不多一百七十幾億度,我連尾數都沒有。那你如果要取代這個河山場兩個爐子產生的電,這種規模的差不多要60座,我們有那麼多的土地能接受這樣的蹂躪嗎?你看,再來,看看我們"},{"start":8270.067,"end":8296.396,"text":"這個是內埔的東勢村、東片村,我都去想、都去看。這20年要怎麼復原,院長?這都空安門堂,有的都塑造了,這樣都被寵了。所以不是用那個賣的地,有的賣賣的地,我們現在說融一融二,融二也少了一步。所以要好好的考慮。"},{"start":8298.117,"end":8298.737,"text":"我剛才跟院長報告了。400公頃全部蓋滿。"},{"start":8326.62,"end":8348.986,"text":"還三點多易度,太久了。所以你看看這麼漂亮的一個600公頃增收,然後400公頃圍起來。所以我在這邊很誠懇的呼籲我們行政院。部長今天沒在,我是很幸福的,很尊敬的。"},{"start":8349.912,"end":8354.574,"text":"一位大廚、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、一位大廚長、"},{"start":8377.448,"end":8393.347,"text":"第一個跟委員報告,核電廠40年的壽命是當時政府跟人民的契約,我們必須要這個信賴原則底下去做依法該做的事情。當然有相關的法律可以去做調整,不過現在跟委員報告的是依照核管法實行細則第16條,"},{"start":8395.109,"end":8409.471,"text":"整個廚藝25年這個河山廠是不能做其他這個流程要走25年廚藝的流程才會走完這過程當中他不可以做其他不相關的使用剛剛說的那個只是在廠區的外圍另外"},{"start":8410.882,"end":8412.243,"text":"昨天有提一個市長說自己兩點到十點自己停電一小時"},{"start":8440.441,"end":8444.689,"text":"各月給他獎勵48塊獎勵錢。我如果用異性的立場,說這種外人可能要吃油了,有這種荒唐的想法嗎?市長。"},{"start":8452.554,"end":8476.509,"text":"報告委員,這種虛量反映,臺電已經做了幾十年都是跟企業用電大戶做,現在是推到住家去,自願性的立場,這個是美國日本都在做,這是要引進綠燃的時候,本來就是虛量的調節,以後如果像現在美國在做的,電動車的電也可以灌回給電網,這是事辦的性質,這不是說"},{"start":8476.929,"end":8483.134,"text":"每一次講的理由都是荒誕不拘,聽起來都是很荒唐的,這個不要再當理由了。小六九20年在連戰那個時代第一條還在電纜過去,現在已經兩條了。"},{"start":8506.86,"end":8507.961,"text":"有水有水有土地"},{"start":8536.584,"end":8562.003,"text":"平東有水有電希望台積電,現在呢?有水沒電沒有台積電。今天台積電給我們打臉說他不可以來了,我們要來做封裝測試場。我們很痛苦這個土地,平東的水很多,浮流水、愛寮溪、二峰郡、東港溪,只有東港溪那些藍河的一天就抽20多萬桶去雇用。"},{"start":8564.07,"end":8569.834,"text":"我非常深入地去了解,跟平科大教授。和山長的天下就欠天了。和恆春半島的人,他們的想法,院長我今天跟你講,你要收聽下去。好,那我們請經濟部,我們請農業部。"},{"start":8592.19,"end":8599.614,"text":"昨天晚上接到簡訊說食藥署長今天換人了昨天我們邱部長還在講說風雪來風到底是怎樣"},{"start":8605.102,"end":8628.534,"text":"施耀署吳署長所有部會對他所屬的主管的人士的調動我們都尊重部長那昨天他應該是在還沒有完成整個程序之前所以他不想在那個時候做任何的證實我想我體諒他的心情也希望大家能夠了解但是他應該是完成了程序之後就照既定的程序來走"},{"start":8629.909,"end":8643.395,"text":"好,我們農業部這邊,我這裡要肯定一下農業部長,還有我們的漁業署長署長,一定我到他們那邊幫你額落。我們上次去看屏東生機園區的雞蛋銷毀的。"},{"start":8647.225,"end":8672.121,"text":"陳部長當時楊瓊英我還有民眾黨張其凱我們對他非常讚賞因為勇敢面對任何的事實然後勇於承擔而且我們恭喜在位恭喜在位很重要我們很不喜歡聽人家亂說話所以陳部長我再次肯定但是齁這次的黑鮪魚的事情處理得不好張署長你要先開這個嗎要不要啦齁"},{"start":8677.079,"end":8694.012,"text":"我對於這個黑鮪魚轉成內銷那這十幾年來價格都還不錯但是因為中西太平洋的漁業委員會給我們借給我們喊我們這一年的1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸1965公噸"},{"start":8705.643,"end":8735.415,"text":"叫人來做秀,然後叫清雄來收聽,一公斤拍賣一萬空三百公,喔天價,這位第一位是三百公,幾公斤,賣三百幾萬。為屆公開始,一公斤存八百,六百,阿第二落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落落"},{"start":8736.184,"end":8744.908,"text":"我向委員報告,就是說因為我們有配合的時候,所以過往我們在90%的時候把這個資訊提供給漁民的時候,那個時間太長了,因為時間太長了,讓一些基準已經出海了。"},{"start":8759.495,"end":8759.515,"text":"委員長"},{"start":8776.843,"end":8799.392,"text":"一千六九萬六十五噸,很少耶對啊還有那個整條島一萬六千幾噸耶還有那個大戶鮪魚七萬多噸耶我跟委員報告齁那端午節進行的那個飛鮪魚本身的品質比較好所以我們會利用這樣的一個調控齁讓漁民知道他的時間點齁跟他的抓的數量"},{"start":8800.049,"end":8827.743,"text":"我們希望我們一整年,因為漁訓期兩個多月而已嘛。希望我們的百姓、我們鄉親一整年都可以吃到高品質的黑鮪吐露嘛。啊,我們是什麼?兩年不夠嘛。連下幾十度,連下六十,四十六十,四十五度以下的兩年不夠。我們的農業部,我們的漁業署,在補助各個漁會來企這兩年,速度太慢。"},{"start":8828.635,"end":8837.745,"text":"是不是做品質也不夠,還是上面維護得不好。1900多噸,產量300條、400條一進來,價格掉到100塊。 院長你怎麼敢拖下去,如果要鼓勵民眾要怎麼辦?"},{"start":8844.912,"end":8846.093,"text":"你要給他停,6月12日就不能抓"},{"start":8871.018,"end":8884.454,"text":"月月19日在發公文,三天,全部都處理,有的已經處理,有的已經抓一半,抓一半的,抓到要把它丟掉,丟到海裡面,情何以堪啊,不妙,靠人家這樣在錄的啦。"},{"start":8886.463,"end":8902.252,"text":"報告委員我們當時我們就跟農業部有檢討過未來對漁民的服務通告公告的時效要掌握的精確一點不要造成大家的困擾我們深深的檢討我跟委員報告針對這個部分我們有開始去規劃相關的產業的一個輔導的一個措施那這個措施我相信我們會跟漁民來好好的討論未來就這個部分怎麼樣做更好的一個經濟的作為"},{"start":8915.745,"end":8916.986,"text":"接下來我們請登記第三號嚴寬衡委員質詢"},{"start":8965.422,"end":8974.846,"text":"立法院韓院長各位列席官員大家好請主席請行政院左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院委員好院長好院長這是我們第一次的這個總質詢那我想我想在這邊跟院長討論一些民生議題首先是電價的部分"},{"start":8995.523,"end":9019.357,"text":"我想請教左院長的態度。臺電從4月1日開始調漲電價,那許多的房東也跟著調漲租金。那電價從每度的5元、6元、7元漲幅20到40%。政府是議題的。前內政部林右昌部長曾經允諾要修租屋定型化契約。"},{"start":9020.236,"end":9041.096,"text":"明定出租人收取之電費不可以超出該月之總額,當期之總額。原來說5月就可以上路,但是如今卻跳票。上次也有委員在這邊問到這個問題。那院長你的回覆說7月就會上路。那我想民眾都非常的關心,尤其是青年學子、族族。"},{"start":9042.054,"end":9052.011,"text":"那是不是可以請院長簡單的說明一下現在的進度為何。我知道今天內政部沒有來,如果院長你不清楚沒關係,但是請你說明一下你對這件事情的態度。"},{"start":9052.783,"end":9075.009,"text":"感謝委員對這個議題的重視。林前部長所訂的方向也覺得是正確的。我記得當前一陣子,劉部長在這裡答覆的時候,他說會把這個後續完成。那現在我應該會馬上跟內政部來聯繫,叫他再訂一個時間向大會來公報。即是說7月會不會上路。"},{"start":9075.729,"end":9097.181,"text":"因為上一次你說7月可能就會上路好不好?我們一定在這個時程完成因為早一天就是保障更多的租屋者的安全電價是全民關心的事情尤其是青年學子租屋主因為現在生活成本非常的高電價一漲所有的物價都會漲那我們早一日儘早邀請各部會針對"},{"start":9098.564,"end":9127.666,"text":"租屋定型化契約的內容條款進行討論好好把關就是對租屋主的早一日的保障接下來我再請教就是跟你討論的是我們中部民眾的需求也要讓院長更加了解本席的選區整個大台中市中部地區的用電需求請教院長最大的火力發電廠在榮景院長你能不能承諾台中海線居民的用電需求是不是應該更受到保障"},{"start":9129.155,"end":9158.187,"text":"台中的火力發電廠很長的時間一直是主力那現在我們持續把它改換成燃氣希望有一天對地方的衝擊會小一點那當然它也穩定了周遭的這個供電甚至提供了台灣其他地區的穩定供電的系統對這就是我要跟你討論的現在火力發電廠在台中然後呢現在有10部燃煤機組現在正在興建兩座的燃氣機組未來還要再興建四座燃氣機組"},{"start":9159.287,"end":9182.254,"text":"那拆除4座燃煤機保留6部做緊急備用發電那儲氣槽的部分從現在的5座要再增加4座這是中火就是我們這個經濟部的部分中火要增加9座燃氣機組我先聲明就是一路以來我都支持用燃氣來燃煤"},{"start":9184.448,"end":9184.468,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":9205.609,"end":9231.681,"text":"那可能就會變成未拆除的6部燃煤機組在緊急的狀態之下隨時都會啟動那就變成6加6原有的550萬千瓦的發電量現在用6部燃氣機組來取代變成810萬千瓦再加上備用的這6部燃煤機組那台中中部整個空氣污染的情況會雪上加霜也會更加嚴重"},{"start":9232.501,"end":9244.742,"text":"那因為0403的大地震許多的電廠基礎跳機那面臨震後檢修大潭電廠、明潭電廠也無意境的故障跳脫"},{"start":9247.322,"end":9264.497,"text":"備載容量過低,緊急向民間電廠購電。我擔心在這個供電網任性不足的情況之下,我們原有的備用的六部燃煤機組會緊急使用,變成常態。院長你可不可以針對緊急備用的構成要件在這邊說明。"},{"start":9265.918,"end":9292.455,"text":"報告委員所謂緊急備用的機組所以緊急備用所以絕不輕嚴啟動現在我們也看不到任何條件必須去考慮到它這個緊急啟動的這個條件目前都看不到我們只說對這個燃氣機組的時程能夠讓它如期完成甚至做更多其他多元綠能的發展等等目前我們覺得這樣是滿足現在的需求的"},{"start":9293.377,"end":9319.296,"text":"當然我們對於輸配電的整個電網的韌性還要加強,這個經濟部已經投注了相當多的時間。我再請教,不只是中火的5加9座的這個儲存槽,這個中油的部分,現有的6座,台中港區現有的6座,2022年動工的26年要完工的2座,再加上外港區擴建4座,總共就是12座。"},{"start":9320.41,"end":9347.487,"text":"中油的部分12座,中火的部分9座,總共21座。未來整個台中港有21座的天然氣儲存槽。從戰略的角度來看,大家要知道,雞農不能放在港前啊。不管是受到天候的影響,海運的影響,或者是兩岸局勢的影響,一旦發生任何的危機,將不堪設想。台中港居民,整個海線的居民,生活在水深火熱當中危機四伏。"},{"start":9348.41,"end":9367.448,"text":"院長您可不可以替我們當地的民眾考慮一下應該召集各部會去做一個協商做一個研究要怎麼樣去修正怎麼樣的分散管理怎麼樣的讓主計朝的部分能夠在整個中部地區做一個分散的建制可不可以"},{"start":9368.255,"end":9385.811,"text":"所以我們現在全力在開發第三接收站明年他就應該有可以初期的使用是在哪裡請問可不可以告訴我在哪裡在桃園桃園這邊會有第三接收站那個東西就現在工程進度都我想要知道就是真的需要那麼多嗎"},{"start":9387.363,"end":9390.285,"text":"其實我們未來希望以燃氣為50%為主軸那麼加上這個綠能30%燃煤可以降到20%以氣代煤這是長期的政策"},{"start":9412.162,"end":9429.116,"text":"我贊成我剛剛一開始我就說我贊成我增加燃氣減少燃煤但是我們從戰略的角度來看你把21座的儲存槽通通放在台中港台中港不是鳥無人煙台中港是海線人口最精華的地方"},{"start":9430.323,"end":9445.394,"text":"所以我就是今天在這邊提出來要讓院長部長讓你們真正知道臺中港的現有的狀況我也樂見院長部長一起來到臺中港我相信你們也去過但是近期的發展整個城市的發展"},{"start":9446.604,"end":9466.073,"text":"人口的增加這個是可能你們沒有考慮到了所以我才想說在這邊要要求院長為我們整個台中港人民民眾他們的心聲他們的危機他們的危機感來做出一個考量跨部會的做一個研究是不是該減少或者該怎麼分散可不可以"},{"start":9466.937,"end":9468.278,"text":"好,我們就拿中友來看吼。"},{"start":9497.799,"end":9521.604,"text":"中火在22年的10月還有23年的11月它的那個梅倉還有梅倉對不對還有那個蘇梅的那個蘇梅袋也都多次發生火災那我們儲氣槽"},{"start":9523.408,"end":9547.661,"text":"天然氣儲氣槽21座假設在興建的過程或是未來營運管理的過程當中發生任何公安的意外或者是因為極端氣候或者發生了任何不可預測的狀況那勢必對整個地區整個台中港發生的無法無法預估會發生什麼樣的災難所以我才在這邊提出來希望院長做一個考量"},{"start":9548.641,"end":9575.08,"text":"那不要讓我們的民眾生活在這種無比的壓力之下危機四伏的壓力之下可不可以我們可以把這個我們在台中港除潮這方面所做的公安方面的努力在會後送個書名報告給委員但是我要提醒啦就是說中火也是大家關注的那中火他也常常發生這些公安昨天昨天又一例昨天又一例又是他的書沒帶"},{"start":9576.417,"end":9578.119,"text":"再來我想請教剛剛院長提到了就是"},{"start":9598.991,"end":9624.19,"text":"部長您也提到就除氣的燃氣的比例要高達50%2025但是依照目前的期程來看應該是穩定跳票中目前的比例佔比是39.57本期不想跟你討論這個能源政策民眾要的是穩定便宜的電但是你們做的是成本昂貴受到不確定因素影響程度高的電"},{"start":9625.396,"end":9651.614,"text":"因為你們的政策規劃甚至於背後有特定的能源廠商民眾想管也管不了但是現況就是不符合民意這一點十分明確那我要強調就是說除了發電來源之外更加強變電所還有輸配電端的設備品質的維護更加重要並以配電為核心部件分散式的能量"},{"start":9652.202,"end":9678.311,"text":"加強電網的韌性,減少超高壓變電所及電網的擴充,將重心放在電力需求面的管理。目前進入夏日的用電高峰期,那很多地區無預警的停電也是變成常態,像昨天板橋又發生了大跳電,無預警的大跳電。那我不曉得這一次是碰氣,還是魂叫,還是什麼,又是什麼小動物,"},{"start":9680.051,"end":9682.992,"text":"民眾在毫無防備的情況之下遭受到這樣的情況,輕則家電設備損壞,重則廠商公司生產線停擺。"},{"start":9697.227,"end":9719.956,"text":"一切設備整組排料料那我們行政院一直強調說臺灣不缺電是電網不夠強韌電網過於老舊那會造成整區大跳電我現在想要請教就是說臺電的強化電網韌性計畫未來10年要投入5645億是整體臺灣電網把脈的強硬計畫但是我看到這裡面臺中市兩年"},{"start":9727.458,"end":9749.759,"text":"站不到50億,1000億裡面不到5%那要全面提升供電穩定你中火最大的電廠在台中,台中是人口第二大但是整個把脈的強硬計畫還有老舊電網更新的這些預算配比站不到5%"},{"start":9751.415,"end":9771.889,"text":"這是不是很可笑?我不曉得是什麼原因會讓台中市的占比這麼小?台中市尤其是海線是沿海重點的防治區。中國在這裡,污染也在這裡。更應該增加更多的配電設備、紅外線的檢測還有各項的這樣的一個預防的形式。及早發現設備的老舊"},{"start":9774.724,"end":9798.353,"text":"的疲乏、弱點然後來安排更換避免因事故發生停電或者是造成更大的危險這才是重點。我想請教院長能不能要求臺電承諾加強海線的電力維護可不可以。謝謝委員跟委員報告10年花5645億的這件事情我跟郭部長曾經討論過我希望能夠縮短時程"},{"start":9800.143,"end":9802.845,"text":"院長,我在這裡有三個重點,我再跟你說一下。第一個就是我剛剛提到海線是沿海的重點區域。"},{"start":9827.669,"end":9845.331,"text":"這部分要加強設備防炎設備這個加強愛子清洗這部分那另外本期的選區也就是中火的所在地電纜電線地下化的比例要提高為什麼要地下化就是地下化才能減少沿海侵蝕這些輸入配電的部分"},{"start":9849.598,"end":9860.691,"text":"第三點火力發電廠中火在海線在台中但是台中市民常常深受停電之苦停電之苦"},{"start":9861.332,"end":9888.248,"text":"這是非常諷刺的這三點我想要拜託院長檢討臺電對海線居民的用電保障這三點非常的重要我在時間有限那我在這邊也要跟院長跟你說明一下下一次的交通組我也會跟你再做更詳細的報告就是臺中大渡的和美大橋它可以銜接我們的國道3號和美交流道但是現在的問題"},{"start":9890.828,"end":9915.435,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":9918.283,"end":9930.317,"text":"謝謝嚴寬衡委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。麻煩交通那個麻煩一下那個經濟部就把嚴委員所索取的資料送給嚴委員。謝謝。接下來我們請登記第4號馬文君委員質詢。"},{"start":9945.415,"end":9949.158,"text":"謝謝主席。麻煩請院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。委員好。院長好。院長這一次因為在最近我們前幾天也在新聞上面看到"},{"start":9971.952,"end":9986.482,"text":"是要包括像南投縣的人愛鄉很多的高麗菜很多的農作物都受到冰泡的那個影響甚至在半個小時之內把整片很多很多的農作物都打壞掉了"},{"start":9987.443,"end":10005.365,"text":"我們現在特別要提的是目前我們在全球可能氣候變遷的因素然後對於整個大環境還有這些天候不是過冷就是過熱不是水太多就是乾旱所以對農民也造成很多的衝擊跟影響"},{"start":10007.167,"end":10021.816,"text":"我們不管是民進黨政府也好國民黨政府也好其實都一直希望好好的來照顧我們的農民所以推了很多相關的政策可是今天我本席也要在這裡特別為農民請命因為南投是一個農業觀光的大縣"},{"start":10025.998,"end":10055.998,"text":"﹚"},{"start":10056.718,"end":10056.739,"text":"﹚國務委員﹚"},{"start":10075.091,"end":10098.312,"text":"政府是強制性的尤其是如果有農會保險的身份一定要強制納保可是當他們保了30年40年甚至更久的時間現在卻突然被政府說你們的資格可能有疑慮比如說你有工商登記像這樣子就被取消掉了這個有沒有什麼樣的一個具體的做法"},{"start":10099.671,"end":10112.978,"text":"謝謝委員 農業部來說明謝謝委員我在這邊說明就是委員一直在關心這個議題那我也開了很多的相關的一個會議想辦法找到一個可以解決的方法那現在目前就是說"},{"start":10114.83,"end":10115.27,"text":"關於農商登記的問題"},{"start":10134.289,"end":10136.511,"text":"我們要說的不是他有保障因為這本來就是他應得的"},{"start":10149.765,"end":10169.103,"text":"因為那是他自己繳的保費我們現在講的是你突然把它註銷那我想請問一下因為你說剛剛部長有提到說如果他的工商登記只要跟農業有相關的全部都可以納入可以認定是不是所以我舉例來說比如說像國信的咖啡農"},{"start":10169.944,"end":10191.722,"text":"像他們去申請工商登記他們為什麼去申請工商登記因為那時候政府要求他們必須要做標章的認定他要去申請那個標章所以他產地標章所以就要求一定要工商登記所以他們因為這樣的因素去申請工商登記他就可以"},{"start":10192.623,"end":10214.943,"text":"還是一樣維持農保的資格。只要跟農業相關有關的,我們會盡量來協助。因為他們是被取消的,這也是在陳情的對象以內,這是第一個。第二個,如果說他們開雜貨店,比如說像過去在很早期3、40年前甚至4、50年前比如說像仁愛鄉、像信義鄉、像中寮鄉、南投縣很多的偏鄉,他們"},{"start":10216.124,"end":10216.144,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":10232.918,"end":10252.943,"text":"不是,那個雜貨店的部分因為他本身是一個不是只有跟農業有關的還有其他的部分那我還在跟委員說明就是就算他退保他還是可以去加保那如果說年齡比較大的時候我們來爭取我們來陳情的他們都是八九十歲大家可以看到這個九十幾歲的他要加保什麼"},{"start":10253.743,"end":10281.337,"text":"而且你們要加保的條件是他還必須要到他的地上去實際耕作一個93歲的老人家你叫他說還要再去因為那時候是政府叫他強制納保的這是第一點我再請問一下如果像現在有很多農地被拿去種電他在上面設置相關的那個太陽能那因為太陽能要對要把電賣給台電嘛"},{"start":10283.078,"end":10283.098,"text":"部長﹖"},{"start":10299.059,"end":10322.215,"text":"他從事漁業那是地我們剛剛講的這些農民他們也都在他們的土地上面實際從事農業的使用而且真的種了一輩子他們從那時候沒有機械來代替沒有人力資源在沒有水沒有電的情況之下要爬山涉水還要去擔水那個年代他們就從事了農業"},{"start":10323.336,"end":10343.422,"text":"﹗"},{"start":10343.542,"end":10343.562,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":10357.551,"end":10358.352,"text":"我跟委員您有一點誤解"},{"start":10376.445,"end":10399.554,"text":"雨電共生的那個光電業者是不能從事農保但是他跟農民合作農民本身的農保資格不會被取消所以還是農民對這塊地的一個如果香菇農在他自己的香菇的那個那個棚架上面對那他也必須要賣電他去申請這樣子的工商登記那他的資格算不算"},{"start":10400.492,"end":10402.593,"text":"部長,你們給農民的解釋,因為在我們的法條上面清清楚楚的寫了"},{"start":10421.201,"end":10437.652,"text":"你只要從事,實質的從事相關的農業,其實你的農保就會存在,因為你要做這些都是為了要打假農民,可是你把真的農民全部把他們犧牲掉了,你現在在幫他們說,我的上面重電,他當時說他們不合格的是因為他們辦了工商登記,不可以。"},{"start":10444.716,"end":10447.058,"text":"所以你現在如果你種了電賣還可以賣電給台電那他的資格還可以我不知道這樣的標準差異在哪裡他們也實際在從容啊這些人都還在他們都有從容啊而且攪了一輩子你們說停就停他什麼都沒有"},{"start":10461.651,"end":10469.235,"text":"我跟委員 我想委員非常清楚他這個 我們一般對65歲以上的話我們不會主動的去針對這個特別是年紀大的人去查核那最主要是因為當時紓困的時候他們領了這些農民的部分部長 這個都已經不是這個中間過程了我們今天是要講一個公平正義的問題當你們知道這些人是實際一輩子從農而且從年輕到老而且他繳了一輩子的農保的錢"},{"start":10490.905,"end":10504.331,"text":"可是他只因為他有工商登記他被你取消了你的條例裡面如果就部長剛剛講的只要他的條件其實他是有實際從農他就可以有符合農保的資格這是我們照顧農民"},{"start":10506.432,"end":10517.599,"text":"而且我們要有這個農保的政策的一個很重要的一個目的結果你現在可以幫他們解釋說如果你在上面因為你種電你賣電給台電那你是可以的那為這些原來的農民真正的農民你們卻不可以這樣的政府是有為有能的嗎"},{"start":10529.758,"end":10532.523,"text":"而且這個人數並不是很多到目前為止從今年1月到5月總共才404位他們繳了很多錢欸你政府好像在騙他一樣"},{"start":10542.778,"end":10564.447,"text":"是不是應該要部長不是對我們說明而是你如果真的要照顧農民你們必須解決這個問題當你可以解釋在你的估了上面架設你的光電賣電給台電可以申請工商登記而且這樣符合農保資格當你做這樣解釋的時候你就應該有辦法幫真正一輩子從農的這些老農"},{"start":10568.729,"end":10598.729,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":10599.629,"end":10624.534,"text":"謝謝委員我覺得委員提出的這個觀察不無可以檢討之處我們常常說養殖為本農事為本養殖為本才能夠綠能加值還是要養殖或有從事農事都應該存在如果從這個標準來看它有相關我是建議剛剛我們參佐委員這個講法我們做實質上的檢討或必要解釋跟說明"},{"start":10625.054,"end":10653.141,"text":"好普遍要照顧到真正在還在從事農事的這些農民朋友們當你的法其實是要當我們這些政策是要照顧農民的時候沒有沒有理由我們用法來犧牲他們或者就把他們自己的權益通通把它斷送掉了而且他是真的講了好幾十年因為你不主要是為了講農民嗎包括剛剛的餘電共生我們的餘電共生大家可以回去檢視看看他事實上他的"},{"start":10653.581,"end":10653.841,"text":"大概多久的時間?"},{"start":10679.766,"end":10693.724,"text":"我會盡快,因為這個牽涉到一些例外條件的一個設定,因為其實我們研究了非常久,我們也解決了,像你剛才說剩下400多個,其實本來是1萬多個,所以我們有很多包括"},{"start":10694.821,"end":10723.729,"text":"打開了那個只要跟農業有關的工商業登記我們都可以認那現在就是最後一個就是說部長,電跟農業沒有關係就是賣電跟農業沒有關係那是政策對那是兩件事所以當你這個可以認定的時候你其他的真正的農民沒有理由不認定所以我們希望可以很快的至少在兩個禮拜之內或一個月之內給我們一些出戶的一個方向"},{"start":10724.329,"end":10727.012,"text":"另外還有的就是我想要請教的也是跟農民有關的就是我們在採購農藥跟肥料的時候我們為什麼要"},{"start":10740.024,"end":10740.044,"text":"國務委員﹚"},{"start":10762.383,"end":10762.883,"text":"全世界有"},{"start":10787.15,"end":10791.574,"text":"我們希望他的農藥殘留量還有我們確保食安的問題就讓他有正確的肥料跟農藥的一個使用的方式可是事實上並不然"},{"start":10811.049,"end":10829.155,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":10829.377,"end":10849.428,"text":"﹗"},{"start":10849.768,"end":10855.832,"text":"你是不相信農民,如果你要讓農民有正確的使用肥料跟農藥的這樣子的一個概念,必須從農民教育開始。"},{"start":10862.543,"end":10891.223,"text":"我要跟委員說明齁榮耀實名制肥料實名制只要第一次去登記的時候需要填這些資料以後你買肥料的話就是用報一個電話號碼就可以了對啊那很奇怪啊因為你的目的部長因為你的目的是希望可以控制用藥嘛就是說我的面積原來可能五分地可是我如果賣掉三分地四分地了咧我還是一樣買那麼多啊所以你那麼那個是多此一舉我現在說的是你必須要根本解決"},{"start":10891.963,"end":10919.526,"text":"第1就是從源頭比如說像肥料還有農藥的製造商他們在成分還有他的劑量上面去做最好的控管當你們知道以後再給農民最好的一個用藥的還有用肥料的一個教育我相信對我們的食安還有我們對所有的這些安全會有更大的幫助因為像現在部長也許知道如果像現在的天氣"},{"start":10921.167,"end":10944.168,"text":"太熱、太冷,其實他用的農藥已經不太適用了,而且我們的標準很...就是我們可以使用的農藥品項很少。當農民他使用無效的時候,蟲還是來吃的時候,或者他長不出來的時候,他可能有兩種情況。第一種就是違規使用。"},{"start":10945.149,"end":10968.982,"text":"用沒有核定沒有核准的藥第二個有可能必須加量因為你一直在用舊的農藥比如說像很多的我們人的藥品也是你久了就會有抗藥性耐受性所以現在有很多的新藥其實它稀釋可以都是以千倍萬倍計算可是我們現在核準的可能是"},{"start":10970.384,"end":10989.087,"text":"﹗"},{"start":10989.888,"end":11007.249,"text":"我要跟委員說明就是說整個的一個農藥肥料的施用我們的宣導持續透過教育訓練第二個部分就是剛才您所說的就是透過因為在實名制裡面他種的東西是會被呈現的那這樣子農藥行這些人就可以給他一個比較正確的一個建議"},{"start":11008.712,"end":11018.962,"text":"部長這些就是農民跟農藥行跟我的建議因為我們不是第一年實施他已經實施一段時間有些藥就是不行比如說為什麼日本進口的草莓我們要給他放寬為什麼日本他們可以使用我忘了那個藥名可是在國內的草莓農是不可以使用那些農藥的"},{"start":11031.754,"end":11058.224,"text":"我們為了讓日本的草莓可以進口因為被檢出一次兩次三次結果我們開放日本的草莓農可以使用那幾樣的三種吧那三種農藥可是我們國內的農民是不准的那可見他要使用的時候他有很多必須要有效農民要的是有效你規定是什麼你叫我用什麼我都可以因為他花錢他不是很愛用農藥欸因為那也是要錢欸"},{"start":11060.725,"end":11061.025,"text":"我跟"},{"start":11079.889,"end":11080.089,"text":"部長,那個九成是問誰?"},{"start":11092.745,"end":11094.886,"text":"我剛剛有提到我是這幾天又特別接到很多的農民跟農藥行他們對我"},{"start":11113.814,"end":11115.935,"text":"台灣的教育台灣的農業台灣的技術各方面都比全球很多很多的國家還要好"},{"start":11137.862,"end":11163.734,"text":"我不相信我們的農民教不會我們必須要用這樣的方式要採取要去強勢要他們的個資的方式來限制我剛剛講了啊我原來五分地我如果賣掉三分地你也不知道啊因為你只登記那一次啊我想我們的個資裡面最重要的是他種植的作物的品項那種植作物的品項對於後續的用肥用料是需要一些指導農藥行可以透過這個方式來指導他部長我再跟您說因為那個要錢"},{"start":11166.855,"end":11167.115,"text":"我現在要說的是給農民正確的一個觀念"},{"start":11183.231,"end":11204.885,"text":"比你去做這樣的限制尤其跟人民拿個資這是非常嚴重的事情尤其是跟農民從我剛才講到現在有很多對農民的政策並不友善所以我們今天提出來是希望我們行政院還有我們農業部可以就這個部分再去做事實的一個檢視跟調整如果可以讓農民更好如果可以讓我們食安更好可以讓我們的農藥使用可以更好"},{"start":11210.629,"end":11236.352,"text":"我相信這是大家都期待的因為我們當然不希望我們吃到很多農藥可是顯然你那個效果並不是那麼好所以我們今天特別提出來是不是可以就這個部分去做調整跟改善我想後續的宣導的部分我們會再來加強然後把它的方便性更把它放就是讓農民在買農藥的時候他是完全不會有影響然後反而是對他會有幫助我們會朝這個目標來努力"},{"start":11238.516,"end":11256.255,"text":"院長也是不要跟農民不要跟農民要個資因為我們是農工商我們買了千千百百種的東西甚至也都有政府補助的沒有人需要去繳你的個資說我有多少土地然後我的身份證是什麼"},{"start":11256.775,"end":11257.995,"text":"﹚全世界有很多國家我們的氣候我們的"},{"start":11286.764,"end":11289.245,"text":"我現在要說的是這個個資是不是有必要因為他隨時在調整可是你們要了農民的個資到現在我出去商家我去拜訪還有很多人這樣跟我講他說我們是賊嗎"},{"start":11316.078,"end":11316.258,"text":"﹚中文字幕"},{"start":11336.94,"end":11362.848,"text":"報告委員第一個請農業部相關已經取得的這個農民的個資務必要安全的保護絕對不做他用維護隱私第二個這個實名制應該行之多年如果我們可以從安全考量流向去處價格的穩定或是用量的建議上有其他更適當的方式我請農業部來檢討有更好的親政變名的方式我們朝這個方向來思考"},{"start":11363.168,"end":11381.236,"text":"好這個部分因為為什麼我們特別一直提個資一方面就是我相信農業部我相信我們各部會我們相信行政院我們相信我們所有政府部門不會這麼做可是在必要的時候好像這個個資全部都流出去了他的對象很清楚"},{"start":11381.676,"end":11404.678,"text":"比如說農民他就給什麼樣的訊息這個部分我們特別提出來是希望可以重新檢視因為當他如果在不斷不斷的發生的時候對我們一個民主的國家是一個很大的傷害不曉得是誰給出去可是你沒有辦法控制啊他都是傷人或者他可能是將本求利這個部分如果可以不要你就不應該這個部分"},{"start":11406.56,"end":11421.121,"text":"還是希望可以盡快給我們一個結論跟做具體的做法好不好好謝謝那接下來還是針對我們南投縣因為南投縣的茶葉博覽會我想"},{"start":11422.583,"end":11438.976,"text":"部長其實應該也參加過那茶葉其實不只是台灣重要的一個產業尤其是南投縣非常重要的產業那近幾年過去老實說兩岸關係還不錯的時候有很多茶葉其實是可以銷到大陸"},{"start":11440.177,"end":11440.197,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":11459.239,"end":11483.438,"text":"這是很多茶農的新生那我們好不容易茶博會在南投縣已經舉辦超過10年以上而且越來越成功每年吸引的人數至少超過70萬在官方的統計上面至少有超過70萬人次那他的那個商機就是可能可以在會中或者會後活動以後去做採購的其實"},{"start":11484.699,"end":11484.719,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":11510.16,"end":11510.18,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":11528.885,"end":11543.477,"text":"他可能要縮小規模這個部分是不是可以在這裡特別請院長跟部長可以多做協助因為他剛開始設計的規模大概就是會跟去年前年一樣嘛在疫情過後好不容易又恢復了"},{"start":11544.894,"end":11567.699,"text":"我跟委員說明,像這個部分我們一定全力支持,特別是查柏蘭會其實在這幾年來已經非常非常有名。然後我所了解就是說他除了這個計畫以後他好像還有提另外一個計畫。那我會後我會去檢視,就是我們一定讓這個活動順利的舉辦為前提。那如果說相關的經費如果真的是有不足的地方我們再看怎麼樣的方式來協助。"},{"start":11568.479,"end":11596.768,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝部長因為我們現在是希望樂見各個產業真的有些像觀光產業其實現在都勒緊褲帶有很多人其實都沒有辦法好好的去做生意那對我對他們來說都是很大的影響那如果這個部分只要花一點錢就可以那我們還是謝謝部長剛剛的承諾那我們也希望說今年因為很快就要辦了嘛是不是可以盡快有一個"},{"start":11598.408,"end":11606.444,"text":"各位群同人就是說實際的部分看還有怎麼樣的一個缺口我們再來想辦法協助他們這個活動辦得很好我們都可以去參加"},{"start":11609.109,"end":11635.976,"text":"謝謝,代替縣長因為縣政府主辦那在這裡也代替縣長還有我們所有的我們的茶農很熱誠的邀請院長還有部長還有所有的部會大家可以一起去參加當然還有我們的院長因為他也非常熟悉對南投尤其在農業這一塊那歡迎大家因為就是讓農民更好因為不然他們要面對的挑戰也太多了"},{"start":11637.256,"end":11660.648,"text":"另外就是還有我們鳥嘴潭人工湖的部分因為這個部分經濟部水利署大概斥資202億去建設鳥嘴潭人工湖那它主要的目的當然是為了提供用水主要是彰化彰化大概每日"},{"start":11662.269,"end":11686.108,"text":"紐嘴壇人工湖可以提供25萬噸,彰化站的21萬噸,草屯4萬噸可是在這過程當中其實南投縣在人工湖的規劃設計建造的過程當中其實都非常的支持跟配合甚至連用地的取得地方也都盡量協助所以他其實沒有面臨到很大的困難"},{"start":11686.809,"end":11706.842,"text":"可是現在當時的承諾好像有一點變質了。比如說那時候有說在希望未來這個人工湖除了是這樣子的一個用水的需求以外還可以成為台14線就是我們中壇公路一個很重要的一個觀光廊帶的一個亮點。"},{"start":11709.284,"end":11728.073,"text":"可是我們看到就是說他現在快要完工了那本來規劃的一個這個叫青翠潭森林公園空間發展構想就好像沒有下文了這個部分是不是可以請部長簡要的說明一下"},{"start":11729.52,"end":11739.403,"text":"抱歉抱歉委員這個我待會去再去了解一下好了因為我們還是知道這個因為當時這個跟輸血一樣啊 我在欠貨的時候你有說先給我救啊然後你血輸給我以後我會給你買好的營養品給你補充營養讓你更好不會因為你輸血以後然後就變得很衰弱可是你做好以後那個承諾好像不見了這個部分我們特別希望我們經濟部可以馬上"},{"start":11757.148,"end":11758.028,"text":"謝謝馬文金委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。"},{"start":11787.051,"end":11815.088,"text":"委員會現在在議場二樓很難得來自美國哈佛大學的實習教師而且從哈佛大學然後這個負責人今天是我們這個很難得來自西藏西藏出生的女孩現在在美國哈佛大學歡迎你來臺灣立法院歡迎歡迎我們掌聲歡迎接下來我們請登記第五號謝依鳳委員質詢"},{"start":11827.165,"end":11854.231,"text":"院長早。我想要請卓院長跟我們陳常志還有劉主委。麻煩再請卓院長、經濟部還有劉主委、國發會,謝謝。院長,請教一下,那個我們國發會主委他預估未來的電力成長是每年3%左右,對不對?是吧?"},{"start":11855.41,"end":11859.832,"text":"報告委員,這是經濟部與台電的評估。報告委員,我們評估的方式是台電先做評估。你們是3%,對不對?"},{"start":11887.586,"end":11900.32,"text":"那經濟部長因為他今天出國還沒來嘛那他說未來這個每年成長的3%要主要是以光點來做那個補他的缺口是不是?"},{"start":11901.324,"end":11922.739,"text":"報告委員我們確保我們供電端上來的一定多於退休的所以以2030年為例我們評估大概會增加需求大概7千萬個千瓦700萬個千瓦但我們會增加910萬個千瓦的供應我先跟你說這是109年到113年的發電結構我相信你們看到了"},{"start":11927.822,"end":11951.069,"text":"那我們從110年開始每年的發電的成長就是大概是1%就是在再生能源部分佔比大概是1%佔總供電就是發電結構的1%2%跟1.5%那我們再細看再生能源的部分把那個供電的供需電力供需狀況"},{"start":11953.69,"end":11975.849,"text":"我們可以看到112年相比於111年我們的光電只有成長0.8%那未來如果我們的供電缺口不管未來的成長是1%,2%,3%恐怕光電的成長都足足沒有辦法來彌補那我請問未來怎麼做"},{"start":11977.831,"end":11994.144,"text":"報告委員我們所謂增加是指燃氣機組方面的增加所以會確保這個電絕對夠所以是火力所以未來如果3%增加就是以火力增加是不是而不是以光電增加光電是再多出來"},{"start":11994.773,"end":12022.719,"text":"光電視再多出來嘛那所以我們看到了總統府的淨零碳排委員會的副召集人同董事長他有說我們是不是還在陶醉我們的檢探成績這是你的責任了吧我很清楚淨零碳排是國發會的責任那到底我們淨零碳排的成績是如何的你說"},{"start":12024.4,"end":12049.105,"text":"報告委員我們是有一個減碳路徑我們在2030年要減24%加減1%那我們最近剛盤點完成大概我們目標在可以到23%我再問你一個我們的每度電的碳排量相較於我們臨近貿易競爭的國家是不是偏高"},{"start":12051.756,"end":12070.845,"text":"這是機密嗎?可不可以講?要等到我出了這個院會,你才說這是機密?這不是機密喔,我們是從四個重要的減碳路徑來放分的,一個是台電的減碳路徑,一個是交通的減碳路徑等等這四個路徑。那所以在維持台灣的經濟競爭力的情況下,"},{"start":12075.114,"end":12093.734,"text":"總統府的淨零碳排的副召集人童芷嫻董事長說的,他說的綠能30%,核能30%是最好的減碳的一個配比。你們贊不贊同?左院長你贊不贊同?左院長你說啊,贊不贊同?我們現在絕對沒有能力核能30%"},{"start":12095.214,"end":12102.979,"text":"對啊,綠能你不用講核能,綠能也沒有辦法到達30%,那什麼時候可能到達這樣子的配比?"},{"start":12109.099,"end":12134.705,"text":"綠能30、核能30因為配比50、30、20當中就是這樣的配比那是要循序漸進很多的途徑很多的過程很多的多元發展那所以我們我想請問卓議員長你還是要抱著非核家園的神主牌嗎那怎麼樣子才能夠協助台灣在國際淨零碳排減碳的這一塊上面我們可以循序漸進"},{"start":12135.945,"end":12160.22,"text":"報告委員2002年環境基本法23條所定政府應訂定計劃逐步達成非核交易目標這不是我的神主牌這是我們共同的法律啊現在今年度屢創高溫各地都在停電欸大家都在停電你知道現在發生的是什麼情況嗎"},{"start":12162.176,"end":12177.807,"text":"﹗"},{"start":12177.907,"end":12178.427,"text":"報告委員第一個"},{"start":12204.315,"end":12204.595,"text":"現在國務部長在美國在談"},{"start":12231.323,"end":12250.452,"text":"﹚國會議"},{"start":12250.915,"end":12275.196,"text":"會,會增加出口,但是國部長他因為從半導體來的,他忽略到了其實在我們臺灣最大部分的是中小企業,半導體很多的產品它不需要關稅,但是我們的中小企業,我們的精密機械,我們的船產,它出口是需要關稅的。陳次長你非常清楚對不對?是。"},{"start":12275.876,"end":12292.439,"text":"那境外觀內以及境內觀外可以對於我們的中小企業對於我們的傳產帶來多大的注意?你是不是可以說明?境外觀內的概念是讓我們的中小企業可以成為"},{"start":12293.18,"end":12293.36,"text":"除了"},{"start":12311.573,"end":12311.733,"text":"未來境內關外呢?"},{"start":12329.332,"end":12331.734,"text":"那未來我們如果境外觀內我們的半導體以及我們傳產例如到了日本熊本"},{"start":12349.486,"end":12365.621,"text":"那是不是要帶動我們臺灣的傳產甚至是飲食業者到日本去啊日本人很喜歡我們的珍珠奶茶很喜歡我們的小籠包很喜歡臺灣的所有的美食是不是也能帶出去你怎麼樣推動"},{"start":12366.101,"end":12366.161,"text":"澳洲﹖"},{"start":12388.123,"end":12389.784,"text":"二零中科園區是一個限定就是低用水低汙染的一個園區那"},{"start":12418.155,"end":12437.483,"text":"主委院長,我們張化人沒對不起你們吧?對不對?我們也有投票給你們賴總統吧?我們二零的中科園區用水啊,現在一直招商不足,有可能是用水啊或等等問題,有沒有辦法再生水償?"},{"start":12439.534,"end":12443.517,"text":"拜託你盡快的規劃好不好,因為有非常多的產業,如果談成功了,非常多的產業,像"},{"start":12464.172,"end":12483.097,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":12491.77,"end":12506.298,"text":"你知道其實民間有非常多的特登工廠那特登工廠有可能在105年之後他們設立的就沒有辦法這是一個歷史的演變的過程我們大家都要共同的面對共同的解決"},{"start":12507.278,"end":12510.3,"text":"二、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、"},{"start":12528.37,"end":12528.811,"text":"可不可以?"},{"start":12539.102,"end":12565.468,"text":"有關於這個工廠的相關的問題經濟部再請地方政府也一起來合作經濟部來了解是不是陳次長可不可以因為依照工廠輔導法我們本來就有在輔導這些特登工廠但是如果有這個新的園區我們也會跟他們一起來努力這個要跟地方政府一起來合作這其實是大家共同需要面對共同需要解決的這個特登工廠的問題我相信在臺灣各縣市都有相關的問題"},{"start":12567.108,"end":12593.312,"text":"那未來如果2020的這個原本設計是精密機械園區那未來如果我們擴大也許不叫精密機械或者叫產業園區是不是可以解決我們精密機械其實郭部長也說我們的精密機械產業跟半導體產業已經已經跨入它初階的這樣子的一個機器零組件裡面了"},{"start":12593.672,"end":12612.888,"text":"那未來如果就是境外關內的這個問題可以解決也許我們的精密機械就可以到相關的半導體初階的產地去那也可以促進我們精密機械產業的發展我相信"},{"start":12613.268,"end":12613.508,"text":"好的,謝謝。好,謝謝。以上。"},{"start":12631.974,"end":12640.682,"text":"謝謝協議方委員的質詢。也謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會上午質詢到此為止。我們下午2點30分繼續進行經濟組織質詢。謝謝卓院長及各位閣員。現在休息。"},{"start":12775.725,"end":12778.643,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21607.293,"end":21612.935,"text":"發言會現在繼續開會,進行經濟組織質詢,請丁委員學中質詢。感謝大會主席,各部會首長,我邀請到院長、經濟部長、農業部長。"},{"start":21637.472,"end":21638.459,"text":"院長還有兩位部長備詢"},{"start":21648.138,"end":21655.782,"text":"委員好,祝福你,天天快樂。謝謝,院長好。感謝院長和兩位補充這段時間的辛苦。我經常看到我們這個電視轉播,看到院長對著我們國委員,針對地方事業的一個訴求、的因應,我們議長都有真正的人的一個回應。"},{"start":21671.69,"end":21675.613,"text":"也要跟我們議長、我們兩位國長討論到我們婚姻關有一些過分的問題﹖希望說我們行政院加工業部和經濟部可以來幫我們協助。第一項就是當我們婚姻沿海地區因為這個地震浩瀚,有一些地區甚至低於海平面,地勢有差距,造成我們這個海水道關"},{"start":21698.609,"end":21724.906,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":21724.966,"end":21733.01,"text":"院長：經濟部長：將對這次會議的國分可以與我們協助。我現在要請議長和兩位國長來看到我們一個天文草、一個院長的硬體。這海巨道館一定會來了。來,大家看喔。他現在"},{"start":21754.192,"end":21754.733,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":21776.045,"end":21789.159,"text":"我們剛才看到這件事是我們今年幾月不得了的時間,因為這個地層下陷的問題,還遭到天文潮海水倒灌回來,差不多遠距離2公里。我們現在去到現場看,"},{"start":21794.645,"end":21805.431,"text":"我比我們露營更高那天文槽那是非常嚴重附近用一天都造成非常大的一個損失當然我們陳建仁院長他有去跟現場去會談去了解一個事情他有特別提到說我們中央的專業來支持著我們地方解決這個問題希望我們卓院長我們可以延續著我們陳建仁院長"},{"start":21823.1,"end":21828.903,"text":"對臨時的一個承諾,防止臨時共同來解決這個水患的一個問題。剛才我們說到這個風態和異常的大潮,造成了我們今年這個財政,現在已經又六月了,風態開,風態下又兩月九了,我們接下來幾月還會出現這個大潮。"},{"start":21845.79,"end":21852.733,"text":"當然民眾都很緊張,目前要緊急要做的工作就是要來幾月說登記解決一個方案。另外這個所準的工程也要趕時間做回來進行,要應用到我們議員的一個策略。希望說我們中央可以趕緊來"},{"start":21868.16,"end":21868.38,"text":"施政委員．報告委員．"},{"start":21890.469,"end":21905.606,"text":"﹗"},{"start":21905.666,"end":21905.826,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":21920.862,"end":21942.478,"text":"．一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、七、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十"},{"start":21944.952,"end":21945.713,"text":"我們的會議也會到那邊來討論"},{"start":21973.527,"end":21982.296,"text":"你出港以後有些海峰的關係也有些沙有嗎?去主導我們的海港的出港一下。這部分我們來想辦法看怎麼處理。好,感謝博長。第二項,針對我們國鄉的水利建設。我們這個水利問題,當我們婦人館政府補貼這個應急工程。"},{"start":21998.234,"end":21998.394,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":22015.572,"end":22015.592,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":22031.761,"end":22037.705,"text":"我們為了解決這個問題, 國際的國際規矩和資訊都很需要要緊來處理。我舉例來講, 當我們好位、我們法港、我們其他區域來講重要的國際系統, 這都需要要緊來解決。我們好位就主要有一個30多塊, 30多塊,"},{"start":22054.938,"end":22054.958,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":22070.737,"end":22070.757,"text":"委員長："},{"start":22090.401,"end":22108.166,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":22108.166,"end":22126.169,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":22126.489,"end":22139.052,"text":"是,報告委員,秩序的問題一直是政府登記以來很重視的考慮。我們幾年來也變成相關的相對的一類無線進行。剛才關於我們這個所在地區的進樓的改善工程,都有31件。中央區農路的改善也有26件。這都較為優先的損失要進行。剛才委員所講的那個顧安的保安、白水的保安請經濟部來說明。"},{"start":22152.896,"end":22159.663,"text":"報告委員,我們用這個前瞻計劃,已經報競行政院：前瞻計劃已經近年就結束了：是阿媽你還是我們又延續你：會延續：我們看看優先要處理的地方,所以這個前瞻計劃一定會在…"},{"start":22169.121,"end":22169.401,"text":"再拜託您,再來就我們這個"},{"start":22198.905,"end":22210.108,"text":"都很負責任的問題。實在我現在也要跟我們同樣保證,跟你說說你曾對到我們這個共同計劃的條件,你近日你就公布的事情,讓我和我們這幾個農民都非常地希望,希望說我們保證可以針對我們這個共同計劃的手段,你還要再三思一下。我之前也要跟我們保證說,我們這個"},{"start":22225.848,"end":22240.357,"text":"論壇國,我們就是要鼓掌我們論壇的這個權利。但對於論壇來說,我們這個新口政策,在外就比較好的介紹。我們加一個方法,這個政策的鼓掌,論壇的鼓掌,對著我們論壇國政策,也會得到最重要的一個回應。所以我們先,過去我就沒有參與到,現在參與到,我要積極來請求到,我們分管論壇的這個權利。"},{"start":22255.527,"end":22262.774,"text":"但正正3月下午我就一直在向國長強調到大蒜的問題,蒜頭的問題。就都我分開說,我們這個,我們農業部說,我去修了消息,大量進口蒜頭的那一來,阿基坤土的蒜頭的介紹,"},{"start":22274.424,"end":22282.431,"text":"那時候,我們都有去講到阿根廷、西關牙、埃及的選舉,否則我們現在正靠我們台灣的選舉,有到整個國。"},{"start":22289.088,"end":22305.101,"text":"我向委員報告,就是說我們現在的選舉在進口的時候,它本身有的是從埃及,應該是阿根廷為主,埃及的部分就是為府,因為不同的月份。"},{"start":22306.302,"end":22317.349,"text":"這個部分就是說,我們一定會補充我們的蒜農的生產,所以他們進口的時間會跟我們生產的時間跟我們賣的時間會錯開。所以我在這裏,補充還是跟你再提倡一下,我們阿根廷的蒜頭進口回來的時間是我們台灣種蒜頭的時間。"},{"start":22330.518,"end":22338.506,"text":"我們埃及進口回來的時間對我們好,我們臺灣蒜頭出産的時間。所以,這樣,是不是埃及的蒜頭會去打到我們臺灣本土的蒜頭的基礎。是我們在那裡,我們在那裡,我們在之前,"},{"start":22346.835,"end":22352.298,"text":"方針去把蒜蓉要收蒜頭,都要講解釋23、24日,我六月的蒜頭我就留下,六月的蒜頭就留下什麼蒜頭?就是埃及的蒜頭。對,就是這樣就去打壓到我們這個軍託的蒜頭的這個解釋。這是我們在期間所了解的。所以在這裡要怪託國長,因為我剩3分鐘的時間,我說不完。我在這裡要怪託國長,"},{"start":22374.048,"end":22381.43,"text":"因為我們這個WTO在我們這個關稅契額三千幾噸的這個過分,這就是我們這個國際貿易組織在我們一定要要履行的一個過分。我們如果說將對這個高關稅的算頭,我們相信可以說講解到它的所容,而且說"},{"start":22395.034,"end":22402.916,"text":"尤其是這個阿根廷的蒜頭,它的出産期和我們台灣的出産期是一模一樣的時間,所以它未來明天打入到我們的蒜頭。阿如果發動就是把它作動到說,六、七月、七月一號、七月幾月下,我們台灣的蒜頭用完了,開始要來吃正口蒜頭,我們再開放給人家正口蒜頭。"},{"start":22417.94,"end":22425.046,"text":"這個過分我是一直希望說我們組委員長可以來協助我們論壇合作在這個選舉的一個過程。所以,拜託,我們那個,聽好了,我們跟這個關稅局的過分,我們想可以做一個合理的一個協調,還可以來合作到我們論壇這個事業,像這樣。"},{"start":22443.38,"end":22456.094,"text":"我感謝委員因為都要報對土豆跟大蒜這兩項特別是我們現在用配額的制度配額加上高關稅的部分然後剛才委員講的就是說我們的進口的時間點我們等一下就去討論"},{"start":22459.838,"end":22463.56,"text":"所以我們不是反對進口,我們會反對進口,我們是說這個進口的時間上,時間點,時間點我們要去揭露台灣農園這個收益的感覺。因為這幾年的天氣變化,我們的進口時間稍微有在變動,所以我們的進口時間應該也要做一些調整,我這回去我再來跟我們同仁討論一下。"},{"start":22486.892,"end":22496.694,"text":"好,感謝補充。還有一項,我們還是要把我們這個擁擠業給他們發聲一下。我們這個分業,我們剛才說到我們這個紐西的問題,現在我們說到我們這個擁擠業,我們這個分業當沿海地區,企業是很多啦。我收到很多,首先因為企業的異常,都會收到我們這個大量死亡的狀況。我們農業部都有派到我們這個水產試驗所去廢坑,"},{"start":22515.418,"end":22536.613,"text":"﹗"},{"start":22537.473,"end":22544.037,"text":"．對策．對他們這個復讀的經濟．還是說另外一基金．來協助他們這個．擁擠、擁擠上的．大量私房的問題．。我跟委員報告．分離這個部分因為．"},{"start":22573.94,"end":22574.902,"text":"謝謝丁委員,也謝謝卓院長。"},{"start":22579.462,"end":22601.65,"text":"農產品進口時間的那個滾動檢討是蠻重要的,其實不只蒜頭,好幾樣農產品都有類似的。好,下一位我們請李柏毅,李柏毅委員的質詢以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。下一位請郭委員欲請質詢。"},{"start":22619.256,"end":22619.276,"text":"國務院議員"},{"start":22694.4,"end":22715.238,"text":"我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長"},{"start":22715.899,"end":22735.595,"text":"好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊"},{"start":22736.515,"end":22764.939,"text":"說要輔導臺灣大概將近有178家的一些私人購廠,包含他們自己的土地,能夠導向所謂的合法這樣子的一個狀況。但是後來因為土地編定的一個類別的變更,這個成本比較高,那當然也跟所謂的礦業廢食也有一點關係,到後來是無疾而終了。那昨天有一個新聞我相信其實大家都知道了,就是在這個內湖有一位這個寵物業者,"},{"start":22765.506,"end":22793.422,"text":"他因為沒有取得跟鄰居達成一個共識那當然這可能也是跟這個地方就是臺北市土地使用分區管制的自治一個條例有關所以也引發了他自殺這樣子的一個令人遺憾的一些事情不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人那毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年"},{"start":22794.282,"end":22822.382,"text":"我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠都是責無旁貸的一件事情那回到這個3月1號我在總質詢的時候當時您也是這個代理的部長我相信您應該有聽到我"},{"start":22824.52,"end":22849.007,"text":"在針對所謂的動保警察的這個部分的一些需求啦我想動保警察的這個議題我們已經討論了非常非常的久那當時其實農業部也跟內政部這邊有承諾說我們要合作設立所謂的動保的警察那後續其實我的辦公室也都持續的有在follow有在追蹤然後甚至有請一些部會的人員也特別來做針對這些細節來做一些討論喔那當時其實我們幾經討論之後"},{"start":22854.909,"end":22877.037,"text":"復語動檢員司法警察權,這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的,所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘,然後他們要專業要怎麼訓練,還有他們的待遇跟加級的部分是要怎麼樣來擬定。"},{"start":22878.257,"end":22878.297,"text":"﹚發言委員﹚"},{"start":22898.571,"end":22926.119,"text":"因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外"},{"start":22927.179,"end":22927.199,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":22945.328,"end":22945.348,"text":"委員長"},{"start":22964.281,"end":22969.024,"text":"我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高"},{"start":22989.415,"end":23010.875,"text":"那相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口"},{"start":23011.395,"end":23027.797,"text":"我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?"},{"start":23028.677,"end":23047.872,"text":"我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總書再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓"},{"start":23048.993,"end":23052.454,"text":"那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎"},{"start":23077.697,"end":23097.98,"text":"對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解"},{"start":23098.308,"end":23125.991,"text":"所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完整的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。"},{"start":23126.391,"end":23151.954,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":23152.334,"end":23181.125,"text":"一般民眾他是可以藉由寵登的系統去查得到就是說我要領養我貓狗的人他有沒有什麼樣的一個不良的記錄但是呢就針對所謂的違反家暴法的記錄這個部分一般民眾其實在一般的系統上面其實是看不到的那這個說法呢是說隱私權那我想呢同樣的就是說違反動保法的記錄我們看得到違反家暴法的記錄我們卻看不到"},{"start":23182.405,"end":23183.606,"text":"這個標準是怎麼定出來的?"},{"start":23203.015,"end":23226.508,"text":"但是因為是公家的送養單位是可以查,但是民間是不可以查得到的,因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分,如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候,那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露。那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私,而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養。"},{"start":23228.13,"end":23243.647,"text":"這個之間的關聯性我們只把列為高風險區所以後續我現在也在跟同仁討論就是說怎麼樣用一個市井的方式而不是揭露這個個人本身的過去的這個紀錄我覺得用高風險的概念提出一個市井"},{"start":23245.047,"end":23258.672,"text":"這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是"},{"start":23259.172,"end":23274.428,"text":"﹗"},{"start":23274.988,"end":23294.153,"text":"我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。"},{"start":23295.473,"end":23308.27,"text":"是,好那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦就是寵物的這個主人本身"},{"start":23308.732,"end":23334.254,"text":"他想要去多次的去探望自己就是帶回來從國外帶回來的這個貓狗的一個狀況如果他是在檢疫所當中但是目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢疫所是做不到的"},{"start":23334.614,"end":23355.104,"text":"那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關於我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是...碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後..."},{"start":23357.153,"end":23381.051,"text":"那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在"},{"start":23381.912,"end":23409.503,"text":"北部的在觀音的部分是可以有預約的那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願他是因為他教學意願他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下可能會有一些恐慌多讓事主去探視我覺得這是必要的啦所以我會朝這個方向去努力然後看不到的時候用監視器來看大概用這樣的一個方式來處理"},{"start":23409.943,"end":23435.82,"text":"因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做"},{"start":23436.74,"end":23451.614,"text":"謝謝部長。接下來當然還有多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度。因為現在其實不管在夜市也好、夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。"},{"start":23452.194,"end":23452.214,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":23470.632,"end":23493.748,"text":"一般像貓啊狗啊這個其實就是屬於所謂的寵物的白名單但是針對這個所謂的白名單的部分其實當然也有我們要重點的一個動物福利的一個主旨來做一個指引就教導民眾要怎麼樣來重視動物的一個福利那另外就是在黑名單的部分其實還有落日條款"},{"start":23494.228,"end":23495.209,"text":"我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立的一個動保師"},{"start":23512.944,"end":23537.826,"text":"那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法那動保法的修法"},{"start":23552.69,"end":23561.353,"text":"好好好,謝謝國務委員謝謝院長還有部長下一位請陳素悅委員質詢"},{"start":23594.749,"end":23601.054,"text":"謝謝主席。請主席邀請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長還有陳部長請備詢。委員好。院長武安還有部長武安。"},{"start":23614.52,"end":23633.678,"text":"我們知道雞蛋是民生的必需品不管是家庭的需求或者是餐飲業、糕餅業等等都有很大的一個需求我們看到缺蛋的時候因為買不到蛋而且蛋價上揚就會造成消費者有怨言產量過剩的時候"},{"start":23635.84,"end":23636.161,"text":"昨天週四﹐"},{"start":23659.441,"end":23660.342,"text":"﹚一、二、三、四、五﹚一、二、三、四、五﹚"},{"start":23686.147,"end":23706.332,"text":"所以就是會進口這個雞蛋來供應這個市場的一個需求那現在雞蛋每天的一個生產量的過剩應該將近有32萬顆那針對這樣子的一個產量過剩的問題我們政府有沒有什麼對策來幫忙處理這個產量過剩的部分讓價格不要崩盤"},{"start":23707.755,"end":23728.602,"text":"我跟委員說明一下,就是整個氮基產業它有它的一個產業鏈,從總基、除基、氮中基到氮基,那整個產業鏈走一遭的時候至少要7個月左右,那相對的就是我們現在目前的整個氮的一個需求量大概比過往的平均值大概多32萬克左右,但是比較"},{"start":23730.043,"end":23749.462,"text":"﹗"},{"start":23749.582,"end":23778.147,"text":"所以我們趁這個機會希望說他能夠加速他的淘汰而不是去做一個補償所以我們希望說他平均每個月大概淘汰120萬隻那我們希望說他能夠加速淘汰那他在加速淘汰的部分我們目標是大概180萬隻那相對的就能夠讓他比較有效的把這些生產蛋的效率不佳的老母雞淘汰然後引進一些比較優質的這個健康的一個雞讓他的產蛋效率比較高"},{"start":23778.607,"end":23805.741,"text":"但是更重要就是整個產銷的供需裡面其實某一部分是市場機制但是政府我想農業部也不會放任他們完全是市場機制所以我們在供需求的部分我們還會透過很多這種超市賣場的部分能夠帶頭去降低它的末端的售價那末端的售價如果做四度的調降的時候那會刺激相關的消費者那消費者現在很多都在觀望為什麼"},{"start":23806.821,"end":23814.613,"text":"產地價降了這麼多十幾塊了但是消費端的單價還是維持在高檔的地方所以這個部分我們會積極的去溝通讓這個產銷的這個狀況能夠更加的一個平穩"},{"start":23819.539,"end":23837.272,"text":"市長剛提到這個市場機制當然我們知道有這個市場機制可是我們現在要問的就是說在缺氮的時候我們就會進口氮來彌補這個供應的這個數量那現在就是過剩了那過剩的部分你要怎麼處理你有沒有辦法去幫忙銷到銷價能啊"},{"start":23840.514,"end":23844.939,"text":"這樣子才能夠讓這個就是減輕這個就是提高這個需求量嘛那因為尤其啊就是說我們在這個單價在持續下跌的時候我們也看到中央續產會啊還釋出了這個一千萬顆的這個是進口蛋嘛"},{"start":23858.601,"end":23880.498,"text":"所以這個部分是不是可以請部長說明一下,因為這個部分基農也很不滿,這個彈農也很不滿。我跟委員說明,就是區長會釋出的這些,最主要是以這個彈粉或液彈為主。然後有一部分是茶葉彈,比較少部分。那這個部分特別是在液彈的部分是在加工噴條用的部分。那我昨天特別也跟"},{"start":23881.178,"end":23882.759,"text":"﹚二、5月30日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚二、6月30日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":23902.913,"end":23928.185,"text":"在這個時間點,你如果進場去收購的時候,蛋農就不會去做調節。反正生了蛋就有政府來收的時候,會造成說這個產業的老母雞的淘汰會更加的不順利。所以我們分兩個階段,就是說當你的老母雞的淘汰到了一定的水準以後,我們就可以開始有一部分的這種所謂的滾動倉儲的概念能夠導入。"},{"start":23930.755,"end":23942.122,"text":"當然就是剛剛你有講到這個整個彈機的一個生產就是它有一定的一個期程就是一個節奏那淘汰老母機所以我們也擔心就是說從總機到這個老母機到這個母機然後生蛋這樣子一個生產的一個過程"},{"start":23950.708,"end":23971.032,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":23971.032,"end":23987.022,"text":"﹗"},{"start":23987.182,"end":23987.322,"text":"﹚發言委員"},{"start":24015.994,"end":24041.988,"text":"還有這個什麼總計來不及供應的問題所以這些問題我們是不是要好好的去掌握然後怎麼去解決那部長你說我想非常謝謝那個委員的一個建議跟提醒我們也深刻的去檢討本身的一個雞蛋的一個產銷那我個人覺得就是說在112年的時候那是因為潛流感全世界大規模的發生造成就算你在生產的時候也不夠"},{"start":24042.688,"end":24064.36,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":24064.36,"end":24089.497,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":24089.673,"end":24114.71,"text":"是,好,就是說這整個生產資訊真的很重要要去掌握然後要就是才能夠去掌握這個生產的一個供需量那另外就是說目前蛋農遇到的問題就是這個蛋價已經不敷成本了那很多蛋農都覺得說他們撐不下去了那你還要等你說這個淘汰老母雞真的對他們幫助不大我們還有什麼比較實質上的幫助"},{"start":24115.25,"end":24139.287,"text":"我們還有一個就是現在的彈機的飼料的部分因為飼料我們從7月開始我們又延了上個月降低它的營業稅的部分我們現在正在跟飼料廠再去做洽談因為他們降價的幅度他們過去現在說有兩三次的降價可是那個降價的幅度"},{"start":24140.52,"end":24140.54,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":24171.02,"end":24192.987,"text":"院長我們知道就是我們看到這個科技的這個AI教父就是黃仁勳執行長他來到臺灣可以說是刮起了這個AI的一個旋風那再加上過去我們也看到台積電是我們的護國神山那他在我們國內設廠也引起我們地方很多縣市爭相爭取希望去那邊投資設廠"},{"start":24194.768,"end":24204.235,"text":"可是在我們彰化縣對彰化縣來說像是不是請教卓院長就你所了解啊彰化縣有沒有可能爭取這個台積電或輝達來設廠"},{"start":24207.283,"end":24231.546,"text":"世界的大廠能夠到台灣來投資都是我們歡迎的但是我們也要做好所有的基礎設施包括水電的供應還有整個投資環境工作環境等等那我們會給這些大廠充足的資訊告訴他他的產業在哪裡我們能夠提供最好的服務給他我想最終的決定還是在在他們我知道很多的縣市包括首長民意代表"},{"start":24231.866,"end":24234.007,"text":"我只知道彰化是雞蛋下最多的地方。"},{"start":24258.295,"end":24264.142,"text":"張嬅縣市勞工平均薪資最低的地方為什麼會最低?卓院長你知道嗎?就業的關係"},{"start":24267.128,"end":24286.354,"text":"因為都是傳統產業,因為傳統產業薪資本來就是維持在那樣的一個薪資水平。所以你要怎樣拉高彰化縣的一個平均勞工的一個薪資,只有就是一定要有這個大的科技廠、大的一個產業來進駐,才有可能一方面帶動這個產業的發展、繁榮,然後也才有可能"},{"start":24291.42,"end":24291.44,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":24310.175,"end":24339.401,"text":"報告委員其實目前我們去盤點過彰化的這個水跟電都沒有問題啦尤其彰化目前就一個超高壓的這個用電戶其他的整個這個供電部分是足夠水也是足夠的那請教次長您知道就您這樣說的話那是不是那個中科二林中科可以爭取柴基電跟那個輝達來設廠那個因為是縣政府開發的工業區我們會積極來跟地方政府合作"},{"start":24343.168,"end":24346.211,"text":"因為二嶺中科它當初在開發的時候就是有那個環評就是有高耗能就是高耗水的一個限制就是限定在低耗能低耗水的產業進駐"},{"start":24366.075,"end":24367.115,"text":"我們再來跟地方政府討論,再來跟縣政府討論"},{"start":24389.438,"end":24408.543,"text":"因為他是縣政府的工業區,不是經濟部主管,所以我們會站在從旁協助的立場來跟縣政府討論。這個程序我現在沒有辦法完整的回答,不過因為他是縣政府開發工業區,我們會站在從旁協助的立場來協助。"},{"start":24410.969,"end":24433.98,"text":"我想當初會有這樣子的一個環評的一個條件的限制我想可能也是考慮到供水跟供電的問題那因為彰化縣沒有水庫沒有水庫所以在用水上當然地方當初可能就是會去擔憂到說是不是會排擠到民生用水或農業用水可能有這樣子的一個考量"},{"start":24434.85,"end":24454.424,"text":"所以在這樣子的外部條件,事實上我們是可以去改善的嘛,去強化的嘛,是不是,院長?報告委員,在水的部分,水利署現在有要做這個臺中彰化,還有雲林這邊的這個調度,我們希望未來能夠有所改善。"},{"start":24455.336,"end":24463.738,"text":"是,那個電的部分因為我們彰化的外海就是整個臺灣應該說是最優質最大的這個離岸風電廠那目前我們在外海的這個就是風機的離岸風電的這個發電量應該有達到3%至4%了所以在這個用電上應該是很足夠那這個水的部分呢"},{"start":24478.662,"end":24495.339,"text":"因為我們也看到目前政府在從北到南都有在規劃這個海淡廠,獨獨就是彰化縣沒有。所以我覺得說這個部分是不是我們希望中央政府也可以來規劃考量設置這個海淡廠解決這個用水的問題。所以這樣子的話強化了這個水電的條件之後這個科技產業才有可能來進駐。"},{"start":24501.872,"end":24515.856,"text":"報告委員現在水是足夠的而且未來會要求50%以上用再生水所以我們先做再生水那個水還會有多所以目前看起來水跟電都不是問題我們先要來解決園區的管理規定這應該是第一個題目"},{"start":24534.609,"end":24551.973,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝陳委員,謝謝卓院長。黃秀芳委員及蔡其昌委員之質詢均以書面提出,請行政院書面回覆,並列入紀錄刊登公報。下一位我們請張祺凱委員質詢。"},{"start":24588.98,"end":24590.642,"text":"今天是國會該局議員第一天總質詢。我看你早上要進來。"},{"start":24610.097,"end":24610.818,"text":"但是就不是以身處罰"},{"start":24622.706,"end":24645.129,"text":"不只不要觸法,而且這不是常識的事,應該是來這邊做一個很合適的楷模、示範。好,事實上很簡單嘛,第一個,不要反質詢嘛。阿弟弟不要當木頭人,該知道的事情不要故意不回答。然後不要說謊話,就是不要做虛偽的陳述。很簡單嘛,對不對?你今天已經經過一整天了。今天一整天怎麼樣?感覺跟以前有不一樣嗎?"},{"start":24646.05,"end":24668.826,"text":"到目前為止都不錯到目前為止都不錯不只是以身試著試就是有合適的試法了就可以好來我們從以身試法來開始啦來我們來看一下這個看圖說故事好不好來我們來看這個圖我們的機能齁今年欠很多對不對所以這個今年我們去買進口的機能買一個五千萬五百對不對"},{"start":24671.857,"end":24685.987,"text":"那後來當然有出現五千多萬顆這個彈作廢的這個事情可是這個產銷的方式是對的因為彈不過嘛對不對進彈隊嘛對不對阿今年都必到病阿今年到病太多嘛對不對阿問問請問議長阿今年呢這個為國啊再進口彈進來對嗎"},{"start":24691.361,"end":24718.414,"text":"當然要很有計劃的去生產而且要做調節的工作那國外進口的蛋他如果是慣例我們可能把它做另外一個使用但是不要影響市場上的價格跟民生的需求政府的政見就是產銷要平衡嘛對不對那今年太少了要加東西所以過關一萬對不對那今年加太多了應該減法嘛所以我們剛剛講的答案就是不會從國外再進來了可是最近都嚇爆中華市場會這幾個動作"},{"start":24720.148,"end":24720.168,"text":"我講"},{"start":24747.136,"end":24772.157,"text":"農業部跟單商一定有相當的計劃跟用途這樣做,這個如果沒有影響到市場價格跟整個民生的穩定,所以要進一步的來評估,這不是單從一個數字上來考慮的。一定有影響,上禮拜產地一斤是27.5元,這禮拜落2元下去,而且已經快接近有史以來最低了。"},{"start":24773.055,"end":24785.991,"text":"最低了喔!他當然是有衝擊啊!當然是有衝擊啊!沒有沒有,我做一個比較理性的這個呼籲好不好?剛才陳素玥嘛,民進黨的李卉也在呼籲啊!我們現在趕快再幫我們的鄧榮解決問題好不好?我們來想幾個方法第一個"},{"start":24794.217,"end":24816.476,"text":"我昨天執行你完之後,你現在不會再賣了齁?先停下來,我們先把它暫停,因為他現在是公告而已啦,公告的部分啦。對,我們先把它停下來。我從2月份開始追雞蛋了,結果最近基金人各位齁,你們從5月17號開始倒這個蛋出去,很多基金人是很抗議的,因為很多基金人也是基金民進動的啊。"},{"start":24818.05,"end":24838.181,"text":"先停下來先停下來你這個有點像那個落井下石恭喜他已經已經但就賣不出去其實齁整幾天的報紙是有報的那個蛋已經兜到有些那個因為買飼料的錢還還還不夠啊有些是拿去餵豬因為要減少那個進到市面上那個蛋那個那個數量嘛結果你在這邊還火上加油一直企駕他們在企駕我們台灣威就這樣"},{"start":24839.562,"end":24843.204,"text":"三、四、五、六、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、"},{"start":24861.476,"end":24863.357,"text":"我們要求以民生穩定跟價格穩定來照顧大家,這個當成唯一的標準"},{"start":24891.596,"end":24920.775,"text":"今天很清清楚楚跟我們的全國民眾講,不會賣了,這是第一點。第二個,四千多萬顆,原則上也不會賣了,除非到時候蛋不夠,好不好?好,那我們現在更進一步來看怎麼可以幫這些蛋喔。目前就是一直在崩壞嘛,剛才陳師傅在講的。我們做一些事情啊,第一點可以嗎?透過國金桌桌有雞蛋來加菜,這是不是一個方針?以前香蕉太多就買香蕉啊,幫國金來加菜啊。一定我先跟你講齁,這是誰的建議你知道嗎?"},{"start":24921.874,"end":24935.345,"text":"這是民進黨的總裁選舉。我覺得不分黨派只要是幫人民解決問題的立委都是好立委。可以考慮一下這個事嗎?這個絕對是有助於穩定的。我們現在的基段每一天多出32萬顆。"},{"start":24937.408,"end":24956.039,"text":"國慶若有幫忙這是一個好不好可以想一下已經在執行了那我們也可以做現在我每天都吃兩顆蛋好不好大概一個禮拜內做這個決定好不好我們已經有詢問給國軍還有一些相關的團戰業者你有跟他聯絡了是不是對好加油好不好一個禮拜內看到答案好不好那第二個"},{"start":24957.369,"end":24957.489,"text":"可以買嗎?"},{"start":24971.238,"end":25000.005,"text":"我們現在分兩個部分一個部分就是因為進口飼料我們的營業稅已經把它減免到9月底所以我們希望說飼料我們跟飼料公會在協商希望說他能夠把這些降稅有沒有免那個營業稅的部分能夠回饋給我們的我們個生產端的一個基農這個部分我們會先去處理所以你一個禮拜有沒有你一個禮拜內把你的評估報告你怎麼做我們已經隨時在跟他們溝通了還有另外一個事情就是你長大以外這台手機那台手機有沒有"},{"start":25000.936,"end":25024.992,"text":"九年能太多買到太多對不對?你的方法是把它打成一彈嘛因為一彈打完一彈之後可以保存一年我特別問你啊你九年就知道能進口太多你就做一彈啊啊現在我們台灣我們自己的本土能太多啊你想都沒想到說稍後去收購一些進來收購進來啊你一樣去做一彈啊跟九年一樣九年太多就做一彈嘛今年你去買以後"},{"start":25026.465,"end":25045.642,"text":"做成液彈有兩個好處,第一,你買了以後市面上的雞蛋價格就上來了嘛。我跟你保證明天雞蛋的價格就上來了。而且很重要的,因為你做成液彈你可以用一年對不對。你賣年是一年如果這麼有需要,就所謂的產銷平衡喔,你隨時當可以出去啊。"},{"start":25047.743,"end":25067.35,"text":"我先跟委員報告,就是到市場裡面去把彈收進來以後變成一個滾動倉儲的一個部分,那個時間也要掌握得好。因為你的時間如果先做的時候,我們產業界的這些彈籠反正有人收嘛,他就不會去淘汰老母雞,他就每天下彈給你收。所以這個時間點..."},{"start":25071.312,"end":25075.356,"text":"市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?市長是答應說要評估這個事情嗎?"},{"start":25091.03,"end":25109.804,"text":"沒有,這個我想我們在操作這個的時候,我們沒有辦法做預告。預告的部分,所有的彈籠這邊齁,他就,老母雞就不淘汰了。所以我覺得時間點...那你以前的雞蛋其實有燒到新加坡,燒到香港,甚至連美國都燒了。現在雞蛋外剩這麼多?"},{"start":25111.298,"end":25129.464,"text":"農業部趕快去幫忙外銷有沒有可能?對,我們這個方面也在努力啦,然後那個有關於叫市長裡面去收的那個滾動倉儲的部分我們會試時間點會進場。來,博定,我再問你一件事,你說你兩千萬賣出來,我剛跟你講,你現在不是只有這兩千萬,兩千多萬顆對不對,後續還有四千多萬顆不要再賣了,可能還出現一個問題齁,我來跟你討論一下,你那個蛋啊,"},{"start":25139.266,"end":25162.779,"text":"是去年包括巴西超市巴西大馬對不對我看你那個公告中央續產會裡面有這個公告你看右上角一定你看這個右上角他這個雞蛋啊現在月五月十七開始喔飆售我等一下講啊那有結論啦嘛齁這個時間點已經太多在飆售已經是不對了可是另外一個大問題他賣雞蛋的時間要賣到什麼時候今年12月27號啊滷蛋賣到什麼時候明年六月二十四"},{"start":25169.397,"end":25196.282,"text":"你去年,保定來來,我保定來,我保定來,我先跟你講,我先跟你講,你先注意右上角,好來,我給你看下一張。你今年超市會給兩銅杯要一百,三,今年引起那麼多爭端的進口彈,巴西彈最後進來的有效期限就是到尾,對不對?所以最多最多,這個一彈我們放一年喔,他再怎麼撐怎麼撐,撐到今年的9月27號應該要到期了,對不對?"},{"start":25198.371,"end":25218.331,"text":"你現在的彈,你看看下面我寫的,你這個公告上面寫的,冷凍前彈的液跟爐彈是什麼?巴西彈、土耳其、泰國、澳洲、美國。你拿過去的能到市面上去賣嗎?我想這個部分可能是委員的誤會。第一個部分就是我們做加工的時候會根據"},{"start":25220.031,"end":25220.691,"text":"對阿,阿你過去要過去的結論"},{"start":25245.888,"end":25254.709,"text":"你過期的你就已經銷毀了嘛五千多萬顆你就已經銷毀了嘛我一直逼你你銷毀了嘛那現在快過期的就即時彈你把它做成彈液嘛彈液想怎樣保存老古"},{"start":25255.489,"end":25275.79,"text":"他要跟他的那個那個製造的包括你液氮或是氮粉啊那個我可能超過10年這個是自己專家跟這個專家跟全世界最多標示的10年你要變成化石液液氮是不是沒有這個部分齁到底可以保存多久會跟他的製程有關但是詳細的我可能現在沒辦法回答你我回去會去查OKOK好"},{"start":25277.211,"end":25299.203,"text":"因為現在所有的專家都講說最多一年了,我們也是專家所以我尊重你,你回去查如果有超過一年。我可以保證我們絕對釋出的時候絕對不會超過效期,那如果說室內的蛋如果是夠的話我絕對也不會釋出,我一定會讓它報廢,我寧願報廢也不會釋出,去影響到我們市場的一個蛋價。"},{"start":25301.284,"end":25319.339,"text":"我會請部長很嚴肅的去看這件事情,這個一定站在民眾安全、食品安全的這個條件上面,才做相關的加工跟釋出。如果違背了這個原則,我們寧願讓他就銷毀掉。好,那個部長,你明天下班前,今天拜我齁。"},{"start":25320.322,"end":25328.324,"text":"我會馬上禮拜一馬上通知你其實我的質疑是非常清楚第一台北的專家都說彈力只能放一彈只能放一年因為你專家我尊重你回去問第二你續產會的公告清清楚楚講你現在賣的是什麼東西包括"},{"start":25347.847,"end":25374.559,"text":"當時的巴西彈,巴西彈話來講,到九月就一直停了,好不好?你是打在一起的嘛,OK,你炒情色喔,好不好?不要賣到過期的,好不好?好來,我們繼續就來看超市的問題啦。剛才講到這裏再講,去年,就是因為你超市那時候買太多,銷毀完你又有液彈的問題才引申出來。超市到目前為止,我已經從2月份開始好幾次質詢你也所知了嘛,這個案子很有可能就是我們國會,國會調查的第一個案子。"},{"start":25375.867,"end":25400.311,"text":"國會調查的第一個案子目前還有五個大問題目前沒有合約對不對沒有時機就是沒有以前沒有經驗第三我要證明你到現在沒有給我後面那兩個可能更嚴重這個事情我們去日本前年去買雞蛋的時候日本那時候是E區喔所以我一直跟你講說你從日本什麼地方來你到現在還沒給我我要你檢驗證明你聽我說來來來我先問你一個事情來我們看下一張來你看這張圖來"},{"start":25406.752,"end":25407.172,"text":"你2023年都要召開會議"},{"start":25434.901,"end":25456.218,"text":"你去年同樣是操司,是怎樣?今年就不用開?這不是黑箱,什麼才是黑箱?我再問一次,我先把問題問清楚。你去年同樣是操司,同一個操司。去年為操司去巴西買農的時候,你自己開了公開召集者會議,召商。"},{"start":25458.559,"end":25486.095,"text":"四個條件符合財政超知金買單對不對?雖然超知出了很多問題現在很多人去告現在北檢裡面還有還告了陳吉仲還告了那個中央巨產會的錢淑偉可是你看那時候你還做了這個事情你現在往前推千年你再一次買兩個沒有會議所以當然也沒有條件現在我問你你說還沒有合約是不是黑箱什麼是黑箱回落落啊所以到目前為止為止我沒有看到他該有的東西啊"},{"start":25486.954,"end":25502.622,"text":"可不可以有一分鐘,我跟委員說明,112年,我們要講清楚112年的時候,超市第一個有合約,那合約是符合這個條件,那當初會用合約的方式是因為那時候全球的一個疫情,"},{"start":25503.302,"end":25503.322,"text":"﹚一、"},{"start":25522.419,"end":25544.389,"text":"續常會給他補助說用例行的產料調節並沒有去做專案的會議去討論在這個前提之下他每一個每一個禮拜大概是一櫃啦一櫃的雞蛋進來所以他本身是為了我們那時候的物價消費的物價本身有點有點蠢蠢欲動我們希望說配合穩定物價的一個政策做適當的進口雞蛋來做彌補"},{"start":25547.19,"end":25574.8,"text":"所以那個時候本身我們也說你要用合約也可以要用買斷的方式我們都會尊重所以用買斷所以超市是用買斷的方式所以一百一十一是用買斷一百一十二是合約他們是不同年度的現在人民的疑問為什麼會想說有沒有納匯納匯人民納稅錢有沒有關上過節嗎這間超市五十萬前年的九月五號成立誕生的日期隔了"},{"start":25575.947,"end":25603.443,"text":"不到1、2個月,你就給那個大訂單,中央市長會就給那個大訂單,被請完滿。這裡面已經充滿了疑問,你又沒有合約,你剛講說要買斷,這裡面都有很多事情要查,要再追啦,這就是為什麼要成立調查聽證委員會,要去查第一個案子,這是第一點,聽我講,那我也跟你,那你有一個證明方式嘛,你就說李祥古,你以為他以前進國都巴西蛋啊,進國都日本蛋啊,問題是那時候他也沒經驗嗎?你為什麼要找他,這麼小的一個公司,"},{"start":25606.229,"end":25633.738,"text":"五十萬資本額的公司老闆出一千塊錢馬上成立後一兩個月在中央市長會七百千億的這個蛋的這個生意然後我跟你要他的為什麼你要找他他沒有經驗查出來沒有經驗對不對沒有像去年的時候有經驗嘛前年沒有啦更離譜的我告訴你你告訴我一份那邊有人推薦我跟你要證明你到現在也沒有給我啊至少一個推薦書吧來保證我再問你比較嚴重的其實是要在後面來來來"},{"start":25635.168,"end":25659.677,"text":"我從6月13日去你所知啊,我剛才講過,為了人民的健康啊,就站在人民的立場。那時候日本爆發了禽流感。我跟你要兩個東西,從13日你所知到現在你沒辦法。問得很簡單欸,既然是禽流感爆發的地區,它是日本兩個地方來的蛋啊,一定要檢疫報告嘛。"},{"start":25661.55,"end":25690.632,"text":"你為什麼到現在不給我我跟委員說明齁這個東西其實委員在說明的時候我回去就問了而且查了也看到了就是說他在日本進口的時候他是一個非疫生產區因為他是用輔導縣市本身去做疫區的控管所以我也確認說那時候所進口的蛋並不是從非疫區來的那防檢局在這個部分是有絕對的把關那至於說沒有提供委員我回去會去查"},{"start":25691.152,"end":25698.978,"text":"因為這個資訊是非常明確的。我在這邊可以確認。對,所以你要給他們很明確的名字。對,一定會給你。對,我看過了。因為日本那個時候發生了什麼,他們叫做縣道嘛。那個縣道裡面發生的疫情是情形之類的。他有檢疫的報告嘛。對,所以這個部分我想我們一定。好,你回去查。"},{"start":25708.584,"end":25723.168,"text":"還有一個我要跟委員說明就是說我在111年的時候我不可能去預測說112年會有那麼大的缺氮然後會去圖利超市先讓他做業績然後112年再去讓他去賺這個錢因為我們在111年絕對不可能預測112會有這麼大的缺氮這個我想我必須要澄清的"},{"start":25729.523,"end":25729.823,"text":"為什麼會出現這麼多問題?"},{"start":25760.199,"end":25778.337,"text":"他到4月份就到齊了對不對?阿超市是到外去買嘛對不對?我去調資料,你北偉的資料到底要上去買?你跟我講只有兩家去買對不對?一個量財一個超市。阿北偉,這邊借兩你看,你看清楚。我看得非常清楚。對不對?要借兩三兩買。"},{"start":25779.868,"end":25792.265,"text":"我跟委員說明我們在那個新聞稿也提到了就是說在整個從4月以後的一些進口有一部分是量財他進來的然後由超市去賣的由超市提款對續產會來講"},{"start":25794.548,"end":25795.669,"text":"所以你現在是沒有解釋那到底9月是誰進來還是沒有?"},{"start":25822.907,"end":25824.847,"text":"三、四月以後的不管是超市或量貸都是買斷的,都是用買斷的方式。"},{"start":25852.011,"end":25879.751,"text":"所以是量財去買斷?對,我們沒有,序長會去買斷的部分,不是量財買斷的。是誰買?是序長會買啊。是跟誰買?就是只要有人...你買要結囊不是跟兩間,一間量財,一間超市啊。對,就是量財,就是量財,我們跟量財買。跟量財買,啊你為什麼之前說他4月就到期啊,他要有結囊?沒有,這個就是說,他是3月跟4月有合約,4月以後...部長,這個我們再好好查,另外一個更嚴重的,我告訴你,你看一下那個圖裡面,更嚴重的。"},{"start":25881.072,"end":25907.989,"text":"超市去買雞蛋阿在前年的10月份的時候日本那時候爆發了10月份的時候爆發了禽流感結果你看那個圖院長你順便看一下這個有沒有多嚴重日本發生禽流感的時候他扑殺了很多雞所以他的雞蛋是應該是變少然後雞蛋價格就飆漲嘛對不對結果我們出現兩個非常不合理的你看我們在前年的10月份的時候超市去買雞蛋"},{"start":25910.265,"end":25916.693,"text":"一飛沖天買這麼多,你看以前只有買214、153、172一到一跳到240、604、543而且第二個你看右邊的價格也是很奇怪價格已經飆升了結果超市去買一百多兩千二十"},{"start":25927.895,"end":25928.475,"text":"我這個必須要澄清"},{"start":25948.425,"end":25976.934,"text":"沒有,這個部分本身就是說他這邊提到的我們8月份買的時候還是在飛魚區這個是我一定會請防險局提供這個相關的一個檢疫證明他的出口的檢疫證明可以證實那第二個部分就是後續的這些超市去買的比較便宜那是他跟日本產地的關係那相對的就是說你有預約生產跟沒有預約生產用現貨的部分他本身是不一樣的一個價格那這個部分我們還是尊重"},{"start":25977.614,"end":25992.719,"text":"就是貿易商自己的私人行為我一定看起來還是很多疑點第一個我要的資料你要答應給我的要趕快這個應該是很有可能就是國會調查委員的第一個案子我們相關的資料其實檢調單位已經在查了111年的部分也在做市長檢調調查我接下來要問那個賣料的事情你請回來經濟部英帝我先問你一個生意"},{"start":26007.438,"end":26032.741,"text":"有很多團體17個團體北中南喔串聯去行政院門口陳情抗議阿說那個賣了電廠怎麼可以再研議阿因為他跟台電簽了這個約5月3日一直停機阿嘛他們要求兩個東西第一個什麼原約的什麼訂了新的這個企業或者是原廠的他們要求黑箱的合約要公開第二更重要的"},{"start":26034.827,"end":26050.122,"text":"人民、政府、台電這個一夜裡面清清楚楚,到了5月30日就要停啊,而且已經燒了25年的煤炭了。政府的責任、政府的國策就是減碳嘛,對不對?結果你這還讓他燒,他們就很生氣啊。他們有陳情書啊,你有接到嗎?"},{"start":26050.984,"end":26079.059,"text":"我知道委員所提的這個事情這重點來看就是他期間已到合約期間但是合約的發電量因為配合當地縣政府生煤減碳的這個要求降低了發電量所以他合約的發電量還沒到所以跟經濟部跟台電有這樣的協調所以一定合約你看我今天看不一樣你看到企業我看到人民對於那些人民來講他們不是只是婚禮而已我剛才跟你婚禮跟你台南到高雄"},{"start":26080.031,"end":26093.799,"text":"我們北州、彰化、南投跟台中,他們都認為賣了那個,你知道賣了那個電廠是台灣第幾大污染源嗎?所以經濟部跟他們進行再協商之後一定我先問你一下,你知道台灣最大污染源是哪裡?全台灣最大的污染源?"},{"start":26099.002,"end":26126.702,"text":"有移動污染源、有工業的污染源、有外來的污染源都有。臺中火力發電廠。是,這個大家都知道。所以盡量再用天然氣來取代它。第二個,看一下。第二個就是賣料。結果這麼大的一個污染源,不是只有雲林人,嘉義人、台南人、中華人、台中人。人數15年。他看到那個合約上面寫的清清楚楚,5月31號就是要停啊。"},{"start":26128.137,"end":26130.999,"text":"今天我們要做一個很好示範。經濟部台電有跟電廠來做協調,如何進行未來選擇一個最好的方式。"},{"start":26158.243,"end":26187.321,"text":"發言委員因為當時25年前簽這個約喔當時就是兩個條件一個是發電量一個是期間要滿足他投資的成本那現在我們跟財政公司同心談判協商修約到明年年底不再續約即使發電量沒發完也不再續了這個是無法...沒有要等你到明年那人民哪有要等你到就已經忍受了25年然後明明跟你的國策又國家政策又不一樣然後對人民的健康又有傷害"},{"start":26188.227,"end":26188.248,"text":"議定"},{"start":26190.1,"end":26218.043,"text":"你為什麼不能停?而且你一直在講喔,你電是有夠的,對不對?你電都夠了,你為什麼要讓麥寮電廠,全臺灣電污染源,積極傷害我們人民呢?在整個發電的系統,發電量當中,這個原來的電廠的發電量都算在現在的供需當中啦。你是說如果站麥寮你電就沒夠?我們會比較安全穩定的供電。你不能夠這樣,你不是一直說電有夠啦。你一直講電有夠啦,那你現在...等一下等一下,這個很重要,一定一定。"},{"start":26218.905,"end":26242.712,"text":"你一直強調電視過了,你現在剛才回答的意思就是要不要了,繼續燒煤你電才過?我們是整體的規劃,台電的整個發電系統它的評估它的量是這樣在評估整個規劃。這個叫以用廢氣發電嗎?不是不是,這樣講不好,這樣講不好。一定你們兩個不穩嘛,你一直在說你電有夠嘛。這是一個嘛,第二,減碳不要再燒煤是你的政策啊。"},{"start":26243.76,"end":26271.503,"text":"你們政府的政策阿結果你現在繼續燒阿我要兩個東西好不好第一個陳情的團體跟民眾很清楚要合約嘛對不對而且裡面有一個很嚴重的問題我要先跟你講一下你要研議那要引領縣政府要有燃煤的許可證對不對到目前為止都沒有給喔婚姻管境戶到現在還沒給你這個燃煤的許可證書"},{"start":26273.78,"end":26293.493,"text":"你為什麼現在簽一個簽一個可能合法的約?報告委員這第一個喔政府跟這台電公司在經濟部立場當時25年簽的約我們要尊重喔那當時的約並沒有明確的講說以期間為主或者以發電量為主所以我們現在的的比較比較這個改進的重點就是你先一直罩在那個罩在那個發電量我告訴你"},{"start":26299.81,"end":26323.837,"text":"我已經去查過了,包括你們的同仁都給我,台電都給我嘛,裡面沒有說要保證說要發多少的電量,這是第一次。我再講一次喔,目前我掌握的資料沒有這個事情。第一個好,更嚴重的對我剛才講,人民的健康嘛,而且人民看到的就清楚,你的合約裡面一個重點是到今年5月30日嘛,那為什麼不停下來?好沒關係,來來來,好來,我們一樣嘛齁,我們都尊重專業啦,把合約拿出來。"},{"start":26328.735,"end":26354.654,"text":"報告委員把合約拿出來我們給大家看嘛好不好?看裡面有沒有剛講的有沒有剛講的這個容量要增加這個事情好不好?報告委員第二個還要嚴重的還要嚴重的其實我剛才說的婚姻管政部如果沒有允許你你怎麼去簽一個可能沒辦法落實的合約這是個違法的合約啊其實第三方還要重要啦一定人在關門好修行你若認為麥寮電廠這個全台灣第二大的"},{"start":26356.909,"end":26357.989,"text":"你堅持河山廠是要廢的嗎?你有看到嗎?"},{"start":26384.025,"end":26409.868,"text":"你現在河山場附近的四個鄉鎮都支持要研議結果你看人家支持要嘛然後你偏偏不給嘛對不對阿賣了人家不要嘛你偏偏要給人家你是跟人們會不會是一點都是對著我還要提醒一個地方阿這個是民間的契約阿我們兩個我還是願意說我們站在你去阿我坐下有一個事要問你好好地來考慮因為那個你看一下你是要打河電"},{"start":26435.368,"end":26435.388,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":26452.245,"end":26460.672,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝詹委員,謝謝左院長。報告院會休息五分鐘,休息之後我們繼續進行質詢,現在休息。"},{"start":26598.636,"end":26598.717,"text":"公明。"},{"start":26777.865,"end":26778.366,"text":"報告院會現在繼續開會,請林委員得符質詢。"},{"start":26803.246,"end":26809.688,"text":"謝謝主席、江湖院長。是不是請卓院長,行政院卓院長。好,請卓院長備詢。委員好。卓院長你好。卓院長因為近來,"},{"start":26822.202,"end":26839.257,"text":"有一些像食安、缺藥的問題屢屢發生,讓很多這些醫療的基層他們非常的不滿。媒體也報導說,食藥署長吳秀梅即將離任,外傳由新署長改由中國醫藥大學"},{"start":26841.69,"end":26853.156,"text":"要學院的院長莊昇宏教授來接任那卓院長你對莊昇宏教授是否有信心能夠升任呢?有沒有信心?"},{"start":26854.274,"end":26882.54,"text":"跟委員報告這個部會首長的協下的主管我們通常是尊重首長他在對這個人的瞭解和認識但將來是他自己指揮跟他自己配合瞭解我是說這些食藥署長這項人事案其實很重要因為過去講實在話吳秀梅署長擔任的時候很多基層的民眾我經常就在基層跑他們對他種種的作為非常非常的不滿"},{"start":26884.093,"end":26911.218,"text":"那這次換莊昇宏教授他是中國醫學院的這個院長那當然我們希望說現在面臨的問題當然缺藥的問題很嚴重那你認為像這樣的一個人事案你像缺藥的問題要多少時間讓他來做一些處理因為這個很重要啊"},{"start":26912.381,"end":26920.712,"text":"因為我知道這個人事案這個流程已經走啦已經走完了那你認不認同就是有對他有沒有信心對莊昇宏"},{"start":26922.878,"end":26951.619,"text":"第一個尊重邱部長的選擇再來既然是一個團隊我們就要讓團隊整體往前走就彼此要能夠有默契要能夠很好的團隊觀念精神合作那你認為缺藥的問題應該在多少時間裡面就應該要把它解決掉你不要經常缺這個藥缺那個藥很多民眾他們到醫院去要這個藥也沒有要那個藥也沒有你說怎麼辦對不對這個是跟健康直接第一關係的"},{"start":26953.175,"end":26976.406,"text":"委員長你有什麼看法不管是輸液還是藥現在都有一些問題存在輸液我們現在已經從國外的進口專案進口也從國內其他小廠希望鼓勵他們生產另外就原來這個生產的大廠他能不能在短時間的回復這個都是未來衛福部食藥署要去工作的事情其實齁 卓院長你應該要交代他們"},{"start":26977.886,"end":26997.482,"text":"該給人家一點利潤還是要給問題就是你一直砍砍到人家不願意做嘛這個才是真節點那不願意做你就缺藥問題真節點是在這裡最嚴重的問題我認為你身為院長這個問題你要去要求一定要解決這個問題多少時間可以解決你告訴我"},{"start":26999.395,"end":27002.696,"text":"這個是相當專業的問題我想等到新的食藥署長上來之後我會跟部長跟他一起好好的研究現在遇到的這些問題我們真的誠實面對問題再提出一個"},{"start":27014.568,"end":27014.949,"text":"總院長那我請教你齁"},{"start":27032.216,"end":27036.441,"text":"因為今天要跟你討論一些離岸風電短購的匯率與國產化問題。2024年經濟部主導離岸風電第三階段的區塊開發以出現0元的競標價格。經濟部說離岸風電20年短購絕無"},{"start":27053.26,"end":27063.365,"text":"多付9000億。既然如此,那就請經濟部告訴本席,離岸方店的短購會比競標價格政府要多付多少錢?"},{"start":27065.058,"end":27087.89,"text":"報告委員,這個准購費率剛開始的時候,因為我們完全沒有經驗,需要請開發商來,所以那個是參考國際間,尤其英國等等他的模式。一開始我們提供一個准購費率,接下去呢就變成自由市場競標,等到競標的時候,因為我們已經有第一期的這個示範的情況的結果之後,開發商有了信心,他自然就競價。"},{"start":27088.49,"end":27099.036,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":27100.254,"end":27107.237,"text":"進一步這個離岸風電這個新聞稿寫到借短購價格打好產業的基礎,臨選機制帶動整個基礎的建設的一個建立,並引進國外技術建構國內產業發展離岸風電本土的供應鏈,並扶植我國產業進軍亞太市場。那2022年這個監察院調查報告指出大彰化"},{"start":27128.265,"end":27133.078,"text":"東南以及西南第一階段的離岸封建之水下的基礎"},{"start":27138.001,"end":27138.201,"text":"經濟部新聞稿"},{"start":27167.469,"end":27187.6,"text":"說這個國產化具有約束力並有罰則絕非柔性的要求那業者應於承諾年度如期如值達成國產化承諾的目標及封廠的建置若未如期履約則依履約保證金以及等購的匯率等嚴格違約來罰則"},{"start":27189.401,"end":27213.212,"text":"那機制的處理那本席當然支持說發展再生人員也支持離岸風電國產化但是離岸風電整個工程的進度嚴重的落後國產化也第一議期希望卓院長能夠明確的才是只要離岸風電無法達成國產化的目標就應該依比例檢討離岸風電能夠的電價"},{"start":27217.216,"end":27217.956,"text":"其實一開始他問題很多啦 為什麼"},{"start":27241.175,"end":27258.864,"text":"因為當初他有等於等過就是議價先議價七成後面的三成再來公開招標公開招標一度標多少兩塊兩毛二等過多少五塊八毛四等於是五塊八毛五幾乎啦"},{"start":27259.773,"end":27272.979,"text":"你看落差多大結果我問前經濟部的部長沈榮金他跟我說因為要國產化實際上的國產化根本就很低啊幾乎都是半成民進來就摘下去啊"},{"start":27276.911,"end":27299.324,"text":"國產化其實還有相當的成就啦因為我們的國產化的範圍非常大我們並不是要求他技術移轉而是讓我們的在地供應鏈可以加入開發商的整個供應鏈未來這些開發商到國際間去做離岸風電的時候我們的供應鏈都可以跟得去目前已經有些實際的問題是你給他一度是五塊八碼五"},{"start":27299.944,"end":27325.686,"text":"那我們公開招標那時候是標2塊2毛2,落差太大。報告委員,實務上這些當時有標到滾購費率的業者,他也去參加公開競標,所以他的成本並不是表面上看到5塊8毛5跟2塊2,他其實他之間有一些財務上的調配,總而言之是政府跟開發商跟供應商跟在地供應業大家都多贏的結果,這是我們期待的一個目標。"},{"start":27326.974,"end":27348.585,"text":"民進黨的整個能源政策是國防的心意。裝睡的人是叫不醒。自以為感覺良好,其實連美國商會也都質疑民進黨的能源政策。尤其童子賢董事長日前的談及臺灣能源政策,表示綠能有間歇性發電的缺點。"},{"start":27350.343,"end":27367.902,"text":"那因攜手核能各佔臺灣發電比例百分之三十讓不排碳發電合計到百分之六十這是臺灣能源的黃金比例可以追上先進國家的水準那童子賢直言臺灣能源政策"},{"start":27369.042,"end":27394.678,"text":"不能改變的原因無非是原來的輝和家園的口號來卡住了為了要適應那個口號就一切東西都要卡來卡去他說臺灣本來可以大舉進步就是因為把核能廢掉而力能又追不上原來設定的目標他希望談論人員政策時政治味道越淡越好"},{"start":27396.619,"end":27404.266,"text":"中信看待產業需求和民生需求,本席支持綠能發展。臺電火力全開,臺灣2050淨零排蛋恐怕"},{"start":27410.441,"end":27433.035,"text":"我看是天荒夜談本席建議左內閣、賴政府盡速召開能源國是會議把所有真實數據全部都攤開來讓全民知道該滾動式調整能源結構就運用核能幫助達成2050年淨零排斷的目標主委長你有什麼看法"},{"start":27433.954,"end":27459.301,"text":"再跟委員報告非核家園我早上說過了他是在環境基本法23條裡面訂的政府應該訂定計畫這個不可以改嗎?現實核能也是立法的這個法現在是存在的而且是委員在想在想那個本來就可以改啊2002年就訂但現在沒有改現在是沒有修沒有改所以這是一個現行的法律再來現在要經過社會有共識核能"},{"start":27460.502,"end":27487.963,"text":"發電達到百分之三十百分之三十應該是現在的社會共識還要很大的去努力能不能達到我都覺得不一定但是這是一個未來可以討論的也許新的核能技術有一天改變跟我們現在不知道的技術那是未來的事情所以我常說一句話未來的核能解決不了今天的問題其實你要達到2050年精靈排碳是天荒夜譚照你們現在的整個這個就是"},{"start":27489.915,"end":27495.225,"text":"整個店家整個店的那個操作方式真的關於學校這個"},{"start":27498.191,"end":27523.067,"text":"電價的補貼臺電表示要動漲政策不變但電費差額會改由各部會編列相關的預算不再由臺電來吸收臺大下長表示一旦漲電費對學校是嚴重的負擔影響經費教學研究的品質資深的服務那教育經費法定下限明定前三年度"},{"start":27524.348,"end":27553.017,"text":"決算稅入淨額平均值23%本席認為窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子本席已提出教育經費編列與管理法修正草案明定電費補助款不要計入教育經費的預算更讓更多教育經費用於學生的身上希望卓院長不要讓上場的電價吃掉學生的教育預算你有什麼看法"},{"start":27554.835,"end":27555.295,"text":"報告委員臺電長年以來"},{"start":27580.186,"end":27585.347,"text":"民進黨政府高估再生能源發展的速度又低估了AI用電需求的成長放棄便宜的核電不用用選擇一度三到四元更貴更髒的火力化電"},{"start":27608.934,"end":27624.083,"text":"那本席現在說的數據是臺電提供2023年燃氣發電的購電成本每度3.62元和能每度1.3元如果2023年臺電整個和能發電的電量跟2015年一樣351億度的話則可以減少使用天然氣發電少虧損400億這400億等同於113年"},{"start":27638.772,"end":27653.768,"text":"文化部300億的預算再加上未來要成立的百億癌症新藥的基金本席不反對發展再生人員2025年再生人員20%的目標已確定是跳票的"},{"start":27655.51,"end":27659.334,"text":"經濟部下修的占比目標是15.5%本來要2025年到20%但是現在下修到15.5%國際認可何能為綠電"},{"start":27669.795,"end":27683.891,"text":"整個國際能源總署強調世界需要核電來減少碳排放每日韓都大舉發展核電那難道民進黨的能源政策不需要做通販的檢討嗎?"},{"start":27685.293,"end":27686.574,"text":"講實在話啦,大家都清清楚楚的啦,為什麼現在經常很多地方都在跳電?"},{"start":27712.327,"end":27728.079,"text":"那是因為電網韌性不好,我要求能夠縮短時間改變電網的韌性,改善電網的韌性。其實我認為政院缺電是有直接關係的啦。這個下次其他再...謝謝,謝謝林委員,謝謝總院長。下一位我們請黃國昌委員質詢。"},{"start":27750.601,"end":27756.167,"text":"謝謝主席副院長。是不是麻煩有請行政院院長卓院長。來請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":27767.043,"end":27780.873,"text":"總統賴清德在競選總統的時候提出他的能源政策那作為總統所提名的行政院院長我相信您最重要的任務就是要實踐賴總統他跟全體國民所提出來的政見"},{"start":27781.909,"end":27798.595,"text":"其中一個非常重要的一環也是今天大家很關心的事情就是能源政策的問題我今天要請教院長的是這個路徑到底要怎麼樣實踐這兩天我們的總統府環境變遷的委員會副召集人童子賢童董事長"},{"start":27799.485,"end":27823.575,"text":"他對於我們在有關於低碳發電的這件事情上面其實提出了蠻強烈的批評我知道童董事長是一個非常有社會企業社會責任感的企業家我個人也非常的尊敬他童董事長說馬政府卸任的時候低碳排電19.4%蔡總統卸任的時候低碳發電只有16.9%童董事長的數據正不正確"},{"start":27826.781,"end":27826.801,"text":"總統市長"},{"start":27845.97,"end":27873.425,"text":"報告委員、經濟部次長陳正希次長嘛,次長說你不知道正不正確你還要再回去再確認,是嗎?是好來,我跟次長報告他的數據是正確的因為他大概就是把火力發電藍煤跟燃氣加在一起啦用百分之百去減掉我們火力發電的數字就他所謂低碳發電的比例我把它全部都列出來了這個是從經濟部能源署的網站下面下來的數字這個"},{"start":27875.146,"end":27904.35,"text":"是過去蔡政府所留下來的問題我沒有要苛責賴清德總統但我們在討論問題的時候知道我們今天從哪裡出發非常非常的重要我首先要請教卓院長的是你認為在賴總統第一任的任期也就是到2028年的時候這一個非低碳排電的比例也就是所謂火力發電的占比會降到多少"},{"start":27905.532,"end":27932.651,"text":"你們現在接手的時候,到今年1月到4月是81.57%嘛,你們現在目標的規劃是要降到多少?報告委員,剛剛前面那個數字,因為我們現在的火力發電是逐漸要降低的,燃氣會增加的,所以理論上是不應該出現,所以我到現在沒有看過這樣的數字,我們可以重新去回頭去查沒有關係啊,就請你跟我講說,你們到2028卸任的時候,你的目標值要降到多少?"},{"start":27933.471,"end":27955.726,"text":"我們現在有幾個火力發電廠要停下來是沒有錯所以你的目標值要降到多少一個禮拜之內書面回覆我可以嗎因為我們現在要討論的事情我沒有要在比較抽象的政策面上跟你討論因為抽象的政策面上賴總統提出他的政見他也當選了嘛就要實踐他的政見嘛"},{"start":27956.747,"end":27980.237,"text":"那我們現在關心的是立法院監督我們要知道路徑怎麼達成嘛。否則的話只是在開空投支票嘛。第二個部分你真的看二氧化碳的碳排放量其實你也可以看得出來從剛剛的比例到二氧化碳的碳排放量童子賢董事長他的批評其實沒有說錯整個趨勢整個數字全部都是一致的"},{"start":27981.021,"end":28005.004,"text":"我非常支持發展再生能源所以我對於再生能源我們現在發展的狀況非常的關心蔡英文總統說2025再生能源要達到20%去年的經濟部也承認了這是一個沒有辦法達到的政見確定跳票了賴信德總統也很坦率的承認了這件事情做不到啦"},{"start":28006.052,"end":28033.32,"text":"做不到他接棒下去做要2026年才可以實踐我相信我對於蔡英文總統的承諾以及賴清德總統的政見這些數字整理都不會錯這個是白紙黑字啊的東西好但我現在在關心的事情是什麼政治人物選舉的時候政見開支票我們就要努力的去達成這才是民主政治這才是責任政治"},{"start":28034.181,"end":28050.793,"text":"我們講要達成不是一句我努力就好人民要看到的是你努力的方法以及你努力的路徑我這樣說沒有錯吧院長好我們來看一下努力的路徑到目前為止我們2024年再生能源的發電量佔10.7%這個一樣是經濟部能源署統計的資料我現在下面的困惑是2026年要到20%"},{"start":28062.432,"end":28065.473,"text":"我把再生能源的種類全部都很詳細的把它畫出來了我具體的請教"},{"start":28085.507,"end":28085.687,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":28098.669,"end":28123.169,"text":"這個會delay的原因主要是因為對不起我沒有問你delay的原因啊我也沒有怪你們嘛跳票的原因跳票的是蔡英文我沒有怪在賴清德頭上啦現在我在問的是賴清德說他2026要達標嘛我們就具體的講現在只有10.7還差9.3嘛那你的太陽光電在你20%的占比當中要占多少"},{"start":28124.38,"end":28149.187,"text":"我們未來會在風電的並聯上面呢對不起我請教你的是太陽光電你打算佔比要多少太陽光電我們大概會到20個Gigawatt那麼沒有沒有20個Gigawatt是20個Gigawatt喔現在我說在你2026再生能源佔比要百分之二十沒有錯吧好在你是再生能源二十裡面太陽光電要佔幾%這是我的問題"},{"start":28151.054,"end":28161.262,"text":"報告委員,再生能源的種類是越來越多的發展。是!所以我很具體的來問,說太陽光電要佔幾%。請說明太陽光電要佔幾%。是整個再生能源的種類會很多。但我不喜歡混起來講嘛。沒有關係,你每一類要到幾%。我希望跟國人說清楚講明白。我知道再生能源很多。"},{"start":28175.954,"end":28194.288,"text":"所以我把所有的數字都列出來了這個是經濟部能源署的網站公告的嘛我今天的問題很簡單賴慶德總統開了政見我們大家都願意相信他他要努力的去達成政見達成要有路徑剛剛院長你也表示同意嘛現在再生能源20%2026年要到20%"},{"start":28198.43,"end":28206.204,"text":"其中太陽光電你們目前的施政計畫是佔幾%?這個問題很具體一點都不複雜也不困難太陽光電要佔幾%?"},{"start":28208.103,"end":28221.646,"text":"跟委員報告一下,我們現在談的是2026年,現在是2024年,還有兩年的時間。所以我們國發會也在努力幫經濟部再找新的能源。跟你報告一下,現在國內已經有廠商開始安裝瓦斯轉藍綠氫的一個綠能。這個藍綠氫的綠能已經實際運作。我們打算在2026年產生大約是1.5GW。"},{"start":28235.917,"end":28236.963,"text":"對,為什麼因為他的建制在一年內"},{"start":28242.93,"end":28260.745,"text":"我這樣說好了啦施政不能只喊口號施政要有路徑我希望達到20%現在是10.7%我們還有9.3%要make up9.3%要Make up我太陽光電打算佔幾%風電打算佔幾%地熱要佔幾%這樣子的一個施政路徑的藍圖難道不應該讓社會知道嗎"},{"start":28267.21,"end":28267.67,"text":"需要多久?需要多久?"},{"start":28293.154,"end":28317.133,"text":"我們一個月給你好一個月齁因為這個要具體的問我們才能實事求是就事論事的討論問題嘛要不然全部都在打高空開支票我相信我也希望達到20%但我為什麼要具體的問太陽光電佔幾%風電佔幾%剛剛您所講的新的技術要佔幾%因為我們日後都要檢驗的嘛好我為什麼關心太陽光電要佔幾%這是一個很關鍵的問題為什麼我這樣說來看一下"},{"start":28323.098,"end":28352.065,"text":"我目前太陽能光電發電的裝置容量是12.96GW最新的數據到4月這應該不會錯全部都是經濟部的數據好在這樣的情況之下目前太陽光電我們發電量的佔比是4.7%到2026年我剛剛為什麼要問這個問題我需要知道你們打算佔的比例是多少我才能夠去估計說你要再多多少GW才能夠達到這個percentage"},{"start":28352.845,"end":28379.401,"text":"這是一個非常率直而且非常重要的問題。為什麼非常重要的問題?我們在討論目標的時候,不是喊口號就會到,要實踐嘛。所以我需要知道說,那你太陽光的占比要多少?你要有多少的發電裝置容量才可以make up你希望達到的目標?我相信我在這邊問的、說的都是合情合理,也是人民所關心的。"},{"start":28379.901,"end":28394.802,"text":"但是這件事情在政府的政策上為什麼重要?因為我們需要知道我們要達到那個目標還需要投入多少土地?一公頃可以發多少MW?"},{"start":28395.953,"end":28423.693,"text":"你知道嗎?所以我們跟委員報告過了,我們如果其他的能源可以發展起來,這個會改變,所以我們去盤點能源報告嘛。我的意思是說,你不能只有目標,你要有路徑。為什麼這件事情重要,我直接秀下面,因為我要知道的是什麼?我要知道的是2026年的時候,到2026年為止,我們盤點現在的狀況,到2026年為止,我要達到這個太陽光電的發電量,我需要知道一件事情,還需要多少土地?"},{"start":28424.935,"end":28440.252,"text":"這個對施政重不重要當然重要為什麼重要我跟院長報告能源用地白皮書光電篇去年經濟部說年底的時候要公布到現在還沒有公布這個能源用地的白皮書請問什麼時候可以公布"},{"start":28442.666,"end":28469.494,"text":"這個是你們網頁上面寫的喔嚴謹制定綠能發展區將能源用地白皮書規劃執引這個白皮書我到今天不斷的搜尋還沒有公布請問什麼時候公布這會牽涉到你的目標到底有沒有realistic嘛你的土地規劃到底是什麼嘛還需要多少公頃嘛打算要在哪裡嘛這不是行政院每天應該要做的事情嗎"},{"start":28470.322,"end":28480.64,"text":"我們今年底以前會公布今年底才會公布喔還需要這麼久整整delay了一年啊沒關係啊我拭目以待啊因為你們土地一定要盤點出來嘛"},{"start":28482.95,"end":28510.884,"text":"要不然大家怎麼知道怎麼樣支持怎麼配合我們政府的施政計畫達到這個目標嗎?要不然一天到晚在喊20%、20%、20%然後等到2028年的時候才說對不起沒有做到基於什麼樣子的原因?我們現在就要知道你的施政藍圖是什麼?你的施政路徑是什麼?你的施政計畫是什麼?需要多少KW?需要多少土地?政府盤點土地的結果是如何?我相信"},{"start":28511.844,"end":28531.618,"text":"這都是非常重要而且非常理性的公共政策討論。完全沒有任何政治口水在裡面。我希望剛剛院長所承諾的一個月的時間告訴全體國人你的路徑是什麼?今年年底以前把這個能源用地排比書公布出來可以承諾嗎?"},{"start":28534.895,"end":28560.943,"text":"下一個重要的問題我支持發展綠能但我痛恨政治權貴攀岩覆勢違法濫權胡搞瞎搞麗陽集團就是一個最典型的例子透過偽造變造的同意書結果什麼當初農委會跟他講你根本不符合淡書不可以用小二甲破碎的農地"},{"start":28562.52,"end":28589.787,"text":"南院局也跟他講你根本就不可以納入110年的計畫你是109年搞的事情啊結果我們的中央到地方通風報信量身打造幫這個綠色的權貴搞解套方案然後呢檢察官很火大起訴了不法獲利上百億稻田日期139萬不實文件比例達到96.15"},{"start":28593.356,"end":28608.288,"text":"後過遍來不實的資料、偽造、變造的文件取得的電業籌設許可,這絕對是一個違法的行政處分。在舊的政府要下台以前,我問得非常的清楚,"},{"start":28609.467,"end":28626.618,"text":"經濟部他跟我說他們絕對會做行政調查該撤銷就要撤銷來請問目前調查的進度違法取得的電業籌設許可騙來的違法的現在圖利被起訴的違法的電業籌設許可要不要撤銷"},{"start":28628.629,"end":28646.598,"text":"我們目前已經全面停止立揚申請案的行政作業那是另外一回事喔前面用偽造變造的文書騙到了電業從事的許可是不是違法的那依照行政程序法的規定我們大概會依法來辦理依法來辦理是依法要撤銷嗎還需要多久依照判決來決定"},{"start":28647.827,"end":28669.976,"text":"依照判決不對喔現在的判決是刑事司法有沒有刑事司法有貪污自罪條例的構成要件行政程序法你剛剛自己說的行政程序法是依照行政程序法這沒有判決的問題阿怎麼說要撤銷我們要依照法院認定的事實來辦理什麼叫做法院認定的事實阿你們行政調查報告還要做多久"},{"start":28750.06,"end":28766.036,"text":"好,謝謝。謝謝王委員。謝謝卓院長。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均與質詢完畢。謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。七月二日星期二上午九時九點繼續開會進行經濟組織質詢。現在休息。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}