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葬煙隧 現在大部分的人都是抽抓煙 抓煙 在抗煙嘛啊 比較多都是勞動階級的啦 屬於便宜啦 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁"},{"start":110.146,"end":114.531,"text":"這也是台灣菸酒有幾款廉價菸的原因當時也是考慮到那些藍領階級負擔能力的問題"},{"start":122.642,"end":137.051,"text":"那現在有加熱煙跟電子煙因為我看都比較年輕比較文明的人其實比較高的人也會在吃的那一個煮小菜這樣看起來也比較水準比較高的感覺加熱煙跟電子煙到底是差在哪裡"},{"start":141.213,"end":145.977,"text":"這可能比較專業可能要請衛福部來說明電子菸據我了解沒有經過核准是不能進來到處都是怎麼會沒有進來"},{"start":158.648,"end":171.815,"text":"現在加熱室菸還沒有一家通過健康影響評估換句話說現在都還是不能進來所以進來的話我們把它當作是違法違信品"},{"start":172.836,"end":197.306,"text":"因為有人說什麼加熱煙電池煙之後來抽稅的話可以一年抽200億,有這個事情嗎當然你增加的話當然你收入一定會增加嘛這個如果要給他歸納歸納要收稅是誰決定是你們決定還是要聯繫跟財政委員會要聯繫我覺得這個是可能主管機關主管機關可能"},{"start":198.886,"end":214.972,"text":"這個是因為涉及到跨部會的事情可能就是還是要各跨相關的部會來做討論那當然也要跟社會做充分的溝通我想這個委員很清楚你的菸捐一年可以收到200多億嘛菸稅呢?菸稅我這邊的資料"},{"start":223.226,"end":238.324,"text":"如果以用去年來看的話去年的話如果是加入長照的大概是264億如果沒有加入長照的是155億所以兩個加起來大概就是"},{"start":238.824,"end":264.042,"text":"大概就是將近四百多億了四百多億 煙煎加煙稅四百多億那如果這些電子煙跟加熱煙也納進來的話那這個現在目前還不能 現在那個都假設性問題吳署長 現在這個東西要納進來說是你們衛福部跟國電署的意見 他們財政部使不上理由這回事嗎"},{"start":267.567,"end":276.821,"text":"因為核定權在主管器官,所以我們還要尊重主管器官的做法署長回答一下"},{"start":279.479,"end":303.078,"text":"謝謝召委那個電子菸大概是在預划是禁止的那麼加熱菸目前在審查還沒有通過那如果通過的話那麼它到底要扣多少稅因為原來房子有規定我們在預划還是要辦理那麼相關的稅間就跟現在的菸稅的每一支多少費用來扣稅那是還是要先過委員會"},{"start":304.797,"end":329.995,"text":"那加熱煙跟電子煙好像添加物更多比紫煙還多那它產生的危害更大還有這個事情現在的紫煙它也有很多的添加物那未來目前審查的這個加熱式煙品那其中大部分都是有裡面都有一些添加物"},{"start":331.331,"end":346.874,"text":"那你們這個什麼時候可以完成?審查什麼時候可以完成?目前就是尊重委員會的審查還在程序當中,還沒有完成好,那次長請回我請補充到健保署副署長市長好我們幾年的長照差不多有800萬人"},{"start":363.953,"end":374.647,"text":"很多人的心事也不管,但是我們現在有錢沒錢,所以就站著站著,站著站著"},{"start":378.25,"end":390.641,"text":"這是兩難我們台灣現在都低薪啦護理人員也是低薪上個禮拜有講的那個放射師啦什麼14個師我個人覺得那個都是低薪啦"},{"start":391.826,"end":415.954,"text":"那我們這個資訊處處長他每天打書 做到急診科醫師沒辦法做 再來做處長那也是低薪 對吧每天被幹掉 那也是所以這個一定要加強啦你就要把長照基金的錢 除以公務預算一年這麼一點點錢那你要cover全台灣我就講一個就好啦 家人請外勞來顧的人"},{"start":419.835,"end":438.31,"text":"23萬人,那一家店都沒辦法,一線都沒,一線都沒所以這個是很糟糕的那這個是,這個是我去恆春,恆春旅遊醫院,這要改名改回來啦部立恆春醫院啦,什麼旅遊醫院沒有旅遊就不用去看是不是"},{"start":440.199,"end":466.892,"text":"改這個名字是有點問題啊現在人們一直懷疑整個恆春的人都跟我激烈的懷疑說希望部長你趕緊證明回來反正恆春旅遊醫院他85%都是服務在地的旅遊的人太少太少了旅遊會出事的人很少不到2%嘛都是外商好啦我現在要講的是你這個那個那個照料的評估你現在說幾個店"},{"start":470.238,"end":492.652,"text":"幾個團隊還有多少地方沒有找了的點是我們屏東有四間門在做我告訴你都會去的都沒問題小孩子來做都沒問題現在最糟糕的是離島還有偏鄉還有山上這些一到五都找不到人"},{"start":494.264,"end":512.461,"text":"都是要6日 而且是整部車這樣 欸人家醫生修理科 復健科 社工車車 兩車車 三到那邊然後現在掌握最好的是誰"},{"start":514.639,"end":530.315,"text":"林頂 川頂 川頂還沒有 林頂最準林頂的這個林 十毫 二十毫對一個孩子這樣比較慢 反應比較慢的 他們都很清楚所以他們都要去找林頂的這個可以半個禮拜四去"},{"start":531.656,"end":554.957,"text":"那你們每次去評估的錢,跟在醫院等病人的是一樣,要加息啦,對不對?這個地方要加息,不然的話這些,你看你,有機率沒搞,就是lost在那邊。那一個政府的搶不搶,就是看他在偏鄉離島醫療的水準有沒有拉起來。"},{"start":555.638,"end":577.751,"text":"你在都會區 台北市每間都去到水洋洋就不要管他 就讓他自由競爭 每間都護理堂皇你要看看你的偏鄉醫療 如果你的水準夠 你就是一個先進我們兩個人已經做得不錯啦 但是還可以做得更好那你健保幾戶 三十分鐘一個療程嘛 對不對太少了啦"},{"start":579.844,"end":583.789,"text":"剛剛林業勤也有講我現在做社會檢查我是有很多人聽大家一直說你也有很多"},{"start":587.993,"end":609.775,"text":"因為孩子的情緒不穩定 等到他穩定已經過十分鐘了那開始治療 現在最糟糕的是ST啦就是原治療 喔 那個是缺的一塌糊塗每一個小孩子要做原治療半小時都要排好幾個禮拜我常常 建民醫代表來跟我講都說你會插隊啦"},{"start":612.137,"end":617.922,"text":"醫院治療師的診診也沒有多遠啊你比較多也好啊所以你幾戶這裡休館 四天加班 我覺得這都很重要啦所以這也不是你一天加班 現在今年很多錢啊在那個時總樑啊 請問大家能不能大力去張羅"},{"start":633.475,"end":661.554,"text":"張羅很多經費回來我們大家全部的寄望都在這裡這樣也要調人家調調我只覺得這一兩年所有的醫療院所的結餘全部都來調薪資我覺得這也是應該把這些我們的醫事相關人員的薪水提高最好一個人拿到六萬七萬八萬都好啊整個拉起來不然的話留不住人啊是是是"},{"start":662.054,"end":685.503,"text":"尤其語言治療,你回去研議30分鐘是不是加長一點,然後點數高一點這沒有多少錢,好不好好,這個我們馬上給你這個很重要啦,然後剛剛那個王育民講的長照保險,我在第八屆有提的"},{"start":686.303,"end":707.292,"text":"結果那時候那個蔡英文很虛偽,不來,全部撥去到現在來,時空背景應該可以因為現在再來,花的錢越來越多老人越來越多,一年要兩千億那你現在用公務預算才八百多億,遠遠不足啦你沒有廣覆蓋嘛,所以這個是可以來"},{"start":708.813,"end":735.153,"text":"來討論當然在野黨是希望說這個民生法案從長照保險能把他推過去我是個人是覺得這個當然是理想就是朝野大家要有共識啦這個跟政黨無關 我要再跟部長強調這個鄉村生理培訓部立恆春醫院 聽起來多爽什麼恆春理兒醫院"},{"start":737.301,"end":742.386,"text":"跟部長強烈建議醫護會我請醫護會醫護會不來啦我派這個第一副執行長剛才去離島回來而已來跟我們關心醫療的蘇昭偉回應一下"},{"start":758.464,"end":774.874,"text":"謝謝趙偉對我們恆春醫院的關心的確沒有錯就像趙偉講的恆春醫院大部分的服務是在地的民眾當初其實是屏東醫院的分院所以它已經更名過一次變成恆春旅遊醫院後續的名稱的問題我們回去再妥慎來演繹"},{"start":782.598,"end":789.742,"text":"省立屏東醫院恆春館後來再改成省立恆春醫院屬立恆春醫院恆春旅遊醫院後來再改成旅遊醫院這最近才改的嘛旅遊醫院應該很久了"},{"start":805.7,"end":811.429,"text":"我們該做部立恆春醫院沒有啦我們來NE啊部長加油謝謝謝謝我們蘇召偉的發言也謝謝部長這邊的答詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":777,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時29分）謝謝主席。部長，你先休息一下，我們請財政部次長。"],["主席：來，財政部次長。"],["阮次長清華：委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：次長好。我要問你，關於我們的菸捐與菸稅，現在一包菸是多少啊？一包菸的菸捐是多少？"],["阮次長清華：大概……應該……每一個就……"],["蘇委員清泉：一包20元，十幾年沒漲了。"],["阮次長清華：每一個的等級不一樣，有些超過100元、有些像臺灣菸酒的大概都是六十幾元，都有啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：一包菸的菸稅是多少？菸稅是算1,000支……"],["阮次長清華：對，我們1,000支是1,590元。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以一包菸以20支計算，差不多是30元左右。"],["阮次長清華：31.8元。"],["蘇委員清泉：一直有一股力量倡議菸捐要漲價、菸稅要漲價，這樣長照基金才會有錢。另外一派是反對，每次談到這個議題就被人罵得要死，所以沒人敢講、也沒人願意講。"],["阮次長清華：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：但我還是要講，現在我們要漲菸捐、漲菸稅，其實大部分的人都是抽紙捲的菸，而且大多是勞動階級，像是司機朋友、開卡車的，他們都是吃檳榔兼抽菸，如果一直這樣漲價，對他們的負擔也是很大。"],["阮次長清華：這也是臺灣菸酒有幾款廉價菸的原因，當時就是考慮到那些藍領階級負擔能力的問題。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在有加熱菸與電子煙，我看都是比較年輕的人、比較文明的人或薪水比較高的人在抽，看起來好像是水準比較高的感覺，到底加熱菸與電子煙的差別在哪裡？"],["阮次長清華：這是比較專業的問題，可能要請衛福部來說明。"],["蘇委員清泉：財政部只負責扣稅的。"],["阮次長清華：根據我的了解，電子煙沒有經過核准是不能進來的，至於加熱菸的部分，目前……"],["蘇委員清泉：現在到處都是，怎麼會沒有進來？"],["阮次長清華：現在還沒有一家加熱菸通過健康影響評估，換句話說，現在都還是不能進來，因此，我們會把進來的當作是違禁品。"],["蘇委員清泉：有人說針對加熱菸及電子煙抽稅的話，一年可以抽200億的稅，真有這樣的事情嗎？"],["阮次長清華：當然抽稅品項增加的話，收入就一定會增加，但是這個也要……"],["蘇委員清泉：歸納要收稅是由誰決定？是由你們決定嗎？或是要與財政委員會聯席？"],["阮次長清華：我覺得這個可能是要由主管機關……但這是牽涉到跨部會的事情，可能還是要各個相關部會進行討論，當然也要與社會做充分的溝通。我想委員也很清楚，因為這件事情非常……"],["蘇委員清泉：我看你們的菸捐一年可以收到二百多億，菸稅呢？我不知道菸稅是多少呢？"],["阮次長清華：菸稅，根據我這邊的資料，以去年來看的話，如果加入長照大概是264億、如果沒有加入長照就是155億，兩個加起來大概就是四百多億。"],["蘇委員清泉：菸捐加菸稅是四百多億？"],["阮次長清華：對，四百多億。"],["蘇委員清泉：如果將電子煙與加熱菸也納進來呢？"],["阮次長清華：現在這個都是假設性的問題。"],["蘇委員清泉：吳署長，現在說將這個東西納進來要看你們衛福部及國健署的意見，他們財政部使不上力，有這回事嗎？"],["阮次長清華：因為核定權在主管機關，所以我們還是要尊重主管機關的做法。"],["蘇委員清泉：署長，你回答一下。"],["吳署長昭軍：謝謝召委，電子煙依法是禁止的、加熱菸目前還在審查，尚未通過。如果通過的話，到底它要扣多少稅，因為菸害防制法有規定，我們還是要依法辦理，相關的稅捐就與現在菸稅一樣以每支多少的費用來扣稅，還是要先通過委員會。"],["蘇委員清泉：加熱菸與電子煙的添加物好像更多，比紙菸還多，所以它產生的危害更大，真有這樣的事情嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：現在的紙菸也有很多的添加物，目前正在審查的加熱式菸品其中大部分也都有一些添加物。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們的審查什麼時候可以完成？"],["吳署長昭軍：目前就是尊重委員會的審查，還在程序當中、還沒有完成。"],["蘇委員清泉：次長，請回。"],["阮次長清華：好。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在請部長及健保署副署長。"],["邱部長泰源：召委好。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們一年的長照差不多要花費八百多億嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：誠如剛才林淑芬委員所言，這些人的薪水也不高，但是因為我們現在的錢不夠，所以就要這裡省、那裡省！這裡捻、那裡捻！這個問題實在是兩難。我們臺灣現在就是低薪、護理人員就是低薪，上個禮拜才講的，譬如放射師等等的14個師，我個人認為那個都是低薪啦！像資訊處處長讀到博士，擔任過急診科醫師，不願意再做，跑來這裡擔任處長，結果也是低薪，對嗎？每天在那邊被人家幹譙，也是……因此，這個一定要加強啦！你要想辦法增加長照基金的錢，不然公務預算一年只有這麼一點點錢，你還要cover全臺灣。我就講一個狀況，家裡聘用外勞擔任照護工作的有23萬人，一角銀都沒有補助，一毛都沒有、一毛都沒有，所以這是很糟糕的！","這是我去恆春旅遊醫院的照片，應該要將名稱改回部立恆春醫院，什麼旅遊醫院，沒有旅遊就不能去看診，是不是？改這個名字是有點問題啊！當地的人都一直反映、整個恆春的人都向我激烈的反映，希望部長能幫他們正名回來，不要再稱為恆春旅遊醫院，因為它有85%都是服務在地民眾，旅遊的人太少太少了，更何況旅遊會出事的又更少，不到2%嘛！而且都是外傷。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：我現在要講的是早療的評估，你現在說有幾個點、幾個團隊，還有多少地方沒有早療的點，像我們屏東就有4間醫院在做。我告訴你，這個在都會區裡都沒有問題，小孩子去做都沒有問題，現在最糟糕的是離島、偏鄉及山上，這些地方從星期一到五都找不到人、都是在星期六、日才有辦法做，而且是2、3輛車載著小兒科醫師、復健科醫師及志工等等殺到那邊。現在掌握資訊最好的是誰？鄰長、村長，但是以鄰長的資訊最準，因為鄰長的鄰大約有十幾、二十幾戶，哪家的孩子生長較慢、反應較差，鄰長都很清楚，所以還必須要去找鄰長耶！他們都是星期天過去，但每次去評估的錢與在醫院等病人是一樣的，應該要加給啊！部長，這個地方要加給，不然的話，你看你的普及率不夠就是lost在那邊。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：一個政府強不強就是看它在偏鄉及離島的醫療水準有沒有拉起來，不然在都會區像臺北市的每間醫院都蓋得水噹噹，你都不要管它，讓它去自由競爭，每間都是富麗堂皇。因此，要看的是你的偏鄉醫療，如果你的水準夠的話，這就是一個先進！我們臺灣已經做得不錯了，但是還可以做得更好。你們的健保給付是30分鐘一個療程，對不對？太少了啦！剛剛林月琴也講過，現在我擔任召委坐在這裡學到很多，因為聽到大家一直講，你應該也學到很多吧？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：孩子剛進診間的情緒都還不穩定，等他的情緒穩定就已經過了10分鐘，才開始治療。現在最糟糕的是ST，也就是語言治療，這個真的是缺得一蹋糊塗，每個孩子要做語言治療半小時都要排好幾個禮拜，常常有民意代表來告訴我，都是要硬插隊啦！其實語言治療師的薪水也不太高，如果你要給他多一點，也好啊！所以你要將給付拉高、時間加長，我覺得這些都很重要。既然健保署一天到晚說今年的錢很多，因為石崇良及邱泰源兩人大力張羅了很多經費回來，所以我們大家全部的寄望都在這裡，但你也要禁得住！"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：我認為可以將這一、二年所有醫療院所的結餘全都用來調漲薪資，而且我覺得這也是應該的，把這些醫事相關人員的薪水提高，最少一個人要拿到6萬、7萬、8萬都好啊！把整個拉起來，不然的話，留不住人啊！"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：尤其是語言治療，副署長，你回去之後要盡快研議，是不是能將30分鐘再加長一點、點數拉高一點？這個沒有多少錢、沒有多少錢，好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們馬上研議。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個很重要啦！","關於剛剛王育敏講的長照保險，我在第8屆就提過，但是那時候的蔡英文主席不要，結果就沒了！如今的時空背景應該是可以，因為接下來要花的錢越來越多、老人越來越多，一年需要2,000億，而你們使用的公務預算才八百多億，遠遠不足啦！既然你沒有辦法廣泛覆蓋，這是可以討論的。當然在野黨是希望能將這個民生法案、長照保險推過去，我個人認為這個當然是理想，不過就是朝野大家要有共識啦！這個與政黨無關，我要再次向部長強調。","至於這個恆春醫院，部立恆春醫院聽起來多爽，什麼恆春旅遊醫院，在此向部長強烈建議。"],["邱部長泰源：我請醫福會……"],["蘇委員清泉：醫福會沒來啦！"],["邱部長泰源：有啦！有啦！我派第一副執行長來說明，他才剛從離島回來，向關心醫療的蘇召委回應一下。"],["林執行長慶豐：謝謝召委對我們恆春醫院的關心，的確沒有錯，誠如召委所講的，恆春醫院大部分服務的都是在地民眾。當初其實是屏東醫院的分院，所以它已經更名過一次，變成恆春旅遊醫院，至於後續的名稱問題，我們回去之後會妥慎的研議，謝謝召委。"],["蘇委員清泉：以前是省立屏東醫院恆春分院，對不對？後來再改成省立恆春醫院、署立恆春醫院。"],["林執行長慶豐：就是恆春旅遊醫院。"],["蘇委員清泉：後來才改成旅遊醫院。"],["林執行長慶豐：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：最近才改的嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：旅遊醫院這個名稱應該是很久了吧！"],["蘇委員清泉：可以再改成部立恆春醫院嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們來研議啊！"],["蘇委員清泉：好，部長加油！"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝我們蘇召委的發言、也謝謝部長這邊的答詢。","下一位請黃秀芳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","葛如鈞","劉建國","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","黃秀芳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","陳菁徽","盧縣一","李坤城","陳培瑜","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","楊曜","陳瑩","林楚茵","林德福"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、財政部次長就「國家社會福利政策財源檢討及偏鄉兒童發展篩檢執行情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}