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謝謝主席 主席詹老遠 先進列席的政務機關長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請我們經濟部郭部長 還有產發署邱署長 以及國貿署的劉署長好 請上訴官員各位好部長好 兩位署長好 今天是要因應著美國的國安調查 但是我想請教一下 請看下一頁"},{"start":39.298,"end":61.343,"text":"副長川普2.0關稅有兩種一個是IEEPA這是國際緊急經濟權利法是總統行使的給台灣跟各國暫緩了90天但是現在我們遇到的是什麼是232條款是屬於美國貿易擴張法第232條款這當中已經開針的已經是汽車跟鋼鐵現在真的調查中的是半導體跟藥品是不是這樣"},{"start":63.702,"end":82.43,"text":"那讀到這邊所示這個232呢就是第四項受調查產品未符合國家安全標準所需要的成長條件主要是這一項嗎是不是部長是的好那我們來看一下那目前台灣已經對蘇美的半導體進行國安調查對台灣有什麼影響"},{"start":85.276,"end":110.495,"text":"我看你們的報告啊對我們的當然這個是將來他關稅的一個依據不是啊 可是我看不出我們的半導體 你看喔台灣對美國出口半導體相關金額是八六八百億啊占全部對美國出口一億四億的將近八成所以半導體 藥品這幾個 汽車 這個都是但是我看我們的結果有受國安調查影響嗎"},{"start":111.637,"end":112.842,"text":"我們有美國會關心我們的半島體蘇美有影響到國安嗎"},{"start":117.352,"end":140.871,"text":"他會調查我們半導體哪些部分跟他國安有影響的對國安有影響的部分應該都是在先進製程先進製程好那我們先進製程應該不會有問題所以我是說你們後來講的有沒有講到先進製程所以我看結果的結論往下看真正要川普關心的會影響到我們的有沒有貨幣操縱台灣是不是被列入貨幣操縱的觀察名單是嗎"},{"start":145.16,"end":159.091,"text":"是嗎是嗎但是我覺得經濟部門管的呢應該是有沒有可能轉運逃避關稅是不是這樣子這點還是習慘天是美國會最關切的是嗎好那我們現在看所以你來看喔在"},{"start":161.274,"end":185.764,"text":"美國明天就要跟韓國協商了 結果韓國搶在新奇就公布了稀產地調查 先置清嘛的確韓國在2024年有將近8億是透過韓國稀產地賣到美國去單單今年的第一劑就已經接近了去年 前三個月接近去年的85%所以韓國是很認真的 包括什麼監視器啦這個韓國很認真的在置清嘛 那台灣呢 台灣有沒有"},{"start":188.988,"end":217.551,"text":"台灣有沒有類似像韓國這樣 對自己做一個整體的調查有沒有去查違規金額啦 貨物流向的地點啦 有沒有去查我們在2月份就已經把這個監測系統建置完成所以有在那查了 跟韓國一樣 要自清對不對好 那我們來看一下但是呢 你看喔 美國在昨天就出手了喔他說對東南亞祭出高關稅防太陽能洗產地現在對美國洗產地 中國透過其他東亞國家洗產地到美國的是哪幾個國家"},{"start":218.809,"end":247.857,"text":"是不是越南?泰國?馬來西亞?柬埔寨?柬埔寨高達克魯多少?3521%欸部長有沒有看過這麼高的所以表示什麼?美國很在意你們東南亞國家幫中國洗產地太陽能板到美國是不是這樣?是沒錯嘛好那我們往下看那請問台灣有沒有類似的情況?有沒有中國的太陽能板透過台灣洗產地到美國去有沒有?"},{"start":249.059,"end":259.689,"text":"應該是沒有因為我們中國的太陽能產品是不能進口的那很好了那有沒有中國的太陽能製品透過越南這些國家的產地到台灣來"},{"start":261.468,"end":275.857,"text":"我們會對這一個部分嚴格的做輸入的規定我們問一下因為實務上可能兩位署長這是應該國貿署還是產貿署管的產貿署還是能源署因為能源署沒有來誰知道來請說能源署有來有來能源署請說有沒有"},{"start":280.706,"end":287.194,"text":"是 這個沒有 我們以前已經處理過了以前有處理過就是中國的光電板透過越南西產地送來台灣我們當時是懷疑 所以我們有建立機制台灣一定要 沒有 現在沒有了你不敢說以前沒有"},{"start":297.512,"end":322.427,"text":"以前我們有防堵措施 然後實施之後我們可以確認我為了這個給你們開過會啦來 部長請回 我們部長來所以其實台灣真的要防止的不是中國或透過台灣的稀產地賣到美國去是台灣成為稀產地的受害者有沒有兩個 一個是供電板 一個呢有沒有中國的汽車零準件透過第三地稀產地來到台灣 賣到台灣來 有沒有有啊有 哪一個"},{"start":323.548,"end":334.933,"text":"這邊有寫嘛中華嘛是不是這些汽車公司那有沒有防堵我們現在已經防堵了已經防堵了 對你們用什麼方式防堵呢哪位署長講一下怎麼防堵"},{"start":336.172,"end":352.314,"text":"報告委員現在的話我們就要求他一定要一定比例的這個國產的這個比例一定比例多少第1年15%那最終要多少到35%的樣子部長我跟你說明一下因為我們在財政會過來了"},{"start":353.902,"end":374.779,"text":"在上週吳秉立委員問了財政部一個問題就是產地的問題對我們國家來講只要這個物品在台灣的價值部分超過35%就算是台灣產的但是美國在對進口來的貨物只要你含有35%的中國零件他就認為是中國的那請問一輛車它的零組件從中國進來的超過35%一半"},{"start":379.503,"end":396.853,"text":"在台灣組裝呢 台灣也加了一半那請問這輛車在台灣是不是認定是台灣產的是嘛 因為35%嘛 它一半嘛可是賣到美國去啟動另外一半是中國產製的 那美國認為它是誰產的這是考古題啊 上個星期無體內委員考過財政委員會了"},{"start":399.039,"end":427.886,"text":"怎麼辦我們會建議這個業者出國前跟美國的客戶溝通那向美國的海關申請原產地的預算但是我不認為台灣有能力從中國進口一半的零組件在台灣加工一半之後再賣到美國去我擔心的是台灣的汽車廠進口超過一半的零組件在台灣從中國進口一半的零組件到台灣加工35%之後就對我們的消費者宣稱這是台灣的車有沒有可能"},{"start":431.997,"end":449.363,"text":"有沒有可能 有嘛 署長都點頭了嘛所以剛剛那個35%我不滿意我希望台灣比照美國如果來到台灣要宣稱台灣出產的車子不只是35%必須台灣加值的也不能有超過35%是中國的 可以嗎"},{"start":450.646,"end":470.52,"text":"我們飛鴻供應鏈是我們現在積極在我們沒有供應給美國我們自己用的車我的意思就是說我們現在在發展的供應鏈我們希望排除中國的供應鏈所以也不能夠至少不能發作專屬方法所以汽車也會比較跟這個電子自動性商品一樣但是這個需要有一點時間"},{"start":472.121,"end":495.756,"text":"所以我們現在35%以後搞不好我們會再進一步往前剛剛邱署長說的是本國價值35%我是說含中國的成分不能多於35%所以你們有一個方法怎麼檢舉稀產地現在貿易法第17條之一有民眾可以檢舉喔檢舉出進口人的產地標示不實會予以獎勵你們的獎勵是什麼你知道嗎獎勵辦法第6條頒給獎勵狀跟獎座"},{"start":501.262,"end":522.535,"text":"這個誰管的貿易法誰管的署長你覺得有人會領獎狀去檢舉人家從中國進口西產地嗎不會那部長你覺得該怎麼做我們大概就是從罰款裡面再撥撥個一半給他太好了完全命中希望你們願意把這個提列罰款作為檢舉人獎金你答應了謝謝我們考慮這樣來做嘛才有誘因嘛"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":825,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時45分）謝謝主席。主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請經濟部郭部長、產發署邱署長以及國貿署劉署長。"],["主席：好，請上述官員。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好、兩位署長好。今天是要因應著美國的國安調查，但是我想請教一下，部長，川普2.0關稅有兩種，一個是IEEPA，這是國際緊急經濟權力法，是總統行使的，給臺灣跟各國暫緩90天，但是現在我們遇到的是什麼？是232條款，是屬於美國貿易擴張法第232條款，這當中已經開徵的是汽車跟鋼鐵，正在調查中的是半導體跟藥品，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如這邊所示，這個232條款就是第四項「受調查產品為符合國家安全標準所需要之成長條件」，主要是這一項嗎？是不是？部長。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們來看一下，目前已經對臺灣輸美的半導體進行國安調查，對臺灣有什麼影響？我是看你們的報告啊！"],["郭部長智輝：這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你說。"],["郭部長智輝：對我們來說，這個當然是將來關稅的一個依據。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是啊，可是我看不出我們的半導體，你看喔，臺灣對美國出口半導體相關金額是868億，占全部對美國出口1,114億的將近八成，所以半導體、藥品、汽車這幾個都是，但是我看我們的結果，有受國安調查影響嗎？美國會關心我們的半導體輸美有影響到他的國安嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：他會調查我們半導體，這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：哪些部分是跟他國安有影響的？"],["郭部長智輝：對國安有影響的部分應該都是在先進製程。"],["鍾委員佳濱：先進製程喔。"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們先進製程應該不會有問題，所以我是說你們後來講的也沒講到先進製程啊，所以往下看我的結論，川普關心的會影響到我們的有沒有貨幣操縱？臺灣是不是被列入貨幣操縱的觀察名單？是嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：我們是觀察名單。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我覺得經濟部管的應該是有沒有可能轉運逃避關稅，是不是這樣子？洗產地這一點還是美國會最關切的，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們往下看。你看，美國明天就要跟韓國協商了，結果韓國搶在星期一就公布了洗產地調查，先自清嘛，的確韓國在2024年有將近8億是透過韓國洗產地賣到美國去，單單今年的第一季前3個月就已經接近去年的85%，所以韓國是很認真的，包括監視器什麼的，韓國很認真的在自清，那臺灣呢？臺灣有沒有？臺灣有沒有類似像韓國這樣對自己做一個整體的調查，有沒有去查違規金額、貨物流向地點，有沒有去查？"],["郭部長智輝：我們在2月份就已經把這個監測系統建置完成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以有在查了，跟韓國一樣要自清，對不對？好，那我們來看一下，但是你看喔，美國在昨天就出手了，他說要對東南亞祭出高關稅防太陽能洗產地，現在中國透過其他東亞國家洗產地到美國都是哪幾個國家？是不是越南、泰國、馬來西亞、柬埔寨？柬埔寨被課了高達多少？3521%！部長有沒有看過這麼高的？所以表示什麼？美國很在意東南亞國家幫中國洗產地把太陽能板輸到美國？是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒錯嘛？好，那我們往下看，請問臺灣有沒有類似的情況？有沒有中國的太陽能板透過臺灣洗產地輸到美國去？有沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該是沒有，但是……"],["郭部長智輝：因為中國的太陽能產品是不能進口的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不能進口？很好，那有沒有中國的太陽能製品透過越南這些國家洗了產地到臺灣來？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會對這部分嚴格做輸入的規定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們問一下，因為實務上可能……兩位署長，這是應該國貿署還是產發署管的？是產發署還是能源署？因為能源署沒有來，誰知道？來，請說。"],["郭部長智輝：能源署有來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有來啊？能源署請說，有沒有？"],["李代理署長君禮：是，這個沒有，我們以前已經處理過了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以前有過？"],["李代理署長君禮：以前有處理過，大概有1%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是中國的光電板透過越南洗產地送來臺灣？"],["李代理署長君禮：我們當然是懷疑，所以我們有建立機制，他要來臺灣一定要……"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有嘛？"],["李代理署長君禮：沒有，現在沒有了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在沒有了？你不敢說以前沒有？"],["李代理署長君禮：以前我們有防堵措施，然後實施之後我們可以確認，現在就沒有了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我為了這個跟你們開過會。"],["李代理署長君禮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：署長請回。部長來，所以其實臺灣真的要防止的不是中國貨透過臺灣洗產地賣到美國去，而是臺灣成為洗產地的受害者，有沒有兩個？一個是光電板、一個呢……有沒有中國的汽車零組件透過第三地洗產地賣到臺灣來？有沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：有啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：有？哪一個？這邊有寫，中華嘛，是不是這些汽車公司？那有沒有防堵？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在已經防堵了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：已經防堵了？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們用什麼方式防堵呢？哪一位署長講一下怎麼防堵。"],["邱署長求慧：報告委員，現在我們就要求他一定要有一定比例的國產比例。"],["鍾委員佳濱：一定比例是多少？"],["邱署長求慧：第一年15%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：最終要多少？"],["邱署長求慧：到35%的樣子。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，來，部長我跟你說明一下，因為我們在財政委員會過來，上週吳秉叡委員問了財政部一個問題，就是產地的問題，對我們國家來講，只要這個物品在臺灣的加值部分超過35%就算是臺灣產的；但是美國對進口的貨物只要含有35%的中國零件就認為是中國的。請問一輛車的零組件從中國進來的超過35%、差不多一半，在臺灣組裝了，臺灣也加了一半，請問這輛車在臺灣是不是認定是臺灣產的？是嘛，因為35%、一半嘛；可是賣到美國去，其中另外一半是中國產製的，那美國認為它是誰產的？這是考古題啊，上個星期吳秉叡委員考過財政委員會了，怎麼辦？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會建議業者出口前跟美國的客戶溝通，向美國海關申請原產地的預審。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是我不認為臺灣有能力從中國進口一半的零組件在臺灣加工一半之後再賣到美國去，我擔心的是臺灣的汽車廠從中國進口超過一半的零組件到臺灣，加工35%之後就對我們的消費者宣稱這是臺灣的車，有沒有可能？有沒有可能？有嘛！署長都點頭了嘛！所以剛剛那個35%我不滿意，我希望臺灣比照美國，如果來到臺灣要宣稱是臺灣出產的車子，那麼不只是35%必須是臺灣加值的，也不能有超過35%是中國的，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：非紅供應鏈是我們現在積極在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們沒有供應給美國，我們自己用的車。"],["郭部長智輝：對，我的意思就是我們現在在發展的供應鏈希望排除中國的供應鏈……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以至少不能超過35%。"],["郭部長智輝：所以汽車也會比照跟電子資通訊商品一樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。"],["郭部長智輝：但是這個需要有一點時間。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們現在35%，以後搞不好我們會再繼續往前走。"],["鍾委員佳濱：剛剛邱署長說的是本國加值35%，我是說含中國的成分不能多於35%，可以嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：是，這個是一定的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以你們有一個方法怎麼檢舉洗產地，依現在貿易法第十七條之一，民眾可以檢舉出進口人的產地標示不實，會予以獎勵，你們的獎勵是什麼你知道嗎？獎勵辦法第六條是頒給獎勵狀跟獎座，這個誰管的？貿易法是誰管的？"],["劉署長威廉：貿易署。"],["鍾委員佳濱：署長，你覺得有人會為了領獎狀去檢舉人家從中國進口洗產地嗎？"],["劉署長威廉：不會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不會？那部長覺得該怎麼做？"],["郭部長智輝：我們大概就是從罰款裡面再撥個一半給他。"],["鍾委員佳濱：太好了，完全命中！希望你們研議提列部分罰鍰做為檢舉、獎金，你答應了，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：我們考慮這樣來做，才有誘因嘛！"],["主席：謝謝佳濱委員。","下一位請劉書彬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-10","speakers":["蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","劉書彬","何欣純","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","陳冠廷","黃捷"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及衛生福利部首長就「美國實施進口產品國安調查對\n我國產業之影響及因應之道」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}