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5.516,"text":"同時投資國內公共建設五加二及六大核心產業者適用風險為17.25%。三、為引導鼓勵保險業投資國內公共建設政策方向已於113年6月宣布目前已投資之公共建設未來適用新一代清場能力的時候未來均不用逐步調整。"},{"start":2407.745,"end":2421.168,"text":"截至113年1月底指投資署保險法第146條之五專案運用公共建設及社會福利運用金額為1375億元,佔保險業資金0.42%,據法定限額10.27兆元,尚有相當大的空間"},{"start":2430.85,"end":2452.609,"text":"檢視目前保險業已投入公共建設的類型,包括再生能源發電及儲能之電力設施、促參BOT案、污水下水道、廢棄物處理、產業園區觀光休閒、政府辦公、都市更新案等。若能持續增加公共建設案源,將有助於擴大保險業參與投資公共建設。"},{"start":2455.593,"end":2484.106,"text":"為促進保險業擴大參與公共建設需跨部會合作、公司協力推動增加更多公共建設案源及投資誘因保險業投入國內公共建設的重點在於如何釋出更多保險業可參與之公共建設案源提供足夠之誘因本會檢視適合保險業投資公共建設案源條件包括一、需具有自償性具有長期穩定現金流量合理報酬案件投資風險可控"},{"start":2485.166,"end":2511.572,"text":"政策穩定性及可預設性等條件又保險業較少產業經營之專業背景、成熟型之產業標的相對於開發型更容易評估與投資保險業本業為經營保險業務參與公共建設方式投資較不適合直接參與公共建設營運除現行透過地上權按直接投資公共建設方法外公共建設證券化、政府建設公債"},{"start":2512.552,"end":2525.974,"text":"具有長期穩定收益、可匹配保險業長期負債,亦為適合保險業之投資標的。為促進保險業資金投入公共建設,需跨部會在以下三方面共同合作。一、"},{"start":2527.031,"end":2545.946,"text":"增加公共建設案源,釋出更多具合理期間及穩定報酬可由民間參與投資公共建設案源,有助於促進保險業投入國內公共建設。二、增加公共建設金融商品種類,參佐亞洲地區已有公共建設證券化是多項案例。"},{"start":2546.706,"end":2574.805,"text":"黨政府單位可將目前具有穩定現金流量的公共建設進行證券化：將可增加公共建設相關金融商品多元化：活化政府資金運用：更可創造民間業者、政府及民眾之三贏局面。三、建立跨部會單一窗口協助排除法規障礙保險業參與公共建設投資除涉及保險相關法規外依個別公共建設種類及性質亦涉及不同目的事業主管機關之規定"},{"start":2576.346,"end":2603.436,"text":"如能建立跨部會單一窗口透過跨部會協調、溝通將更有助於加速協助解決保險業等民間業者投資公共建設。為促進保險業投入公共建設本會將持續檢討、修正相關法令及研議相關鼓勵措施。一、我國新一代清查能力制度將研議進一步鼓勵保險業投資公共建設相關獎勵措施。"},{"start":2605.902,"end":2614.26,"text":"二、透過不動產投資信託引導投資公共建設、憲政研議修正、開放瑞士採基金架構發行"},{"start":2617.108,"end":2640.382,"text":"並採雙軌制與現行依據不動產政經化條例發行信託架構並行修法草案前頁於113年5月經貴委員會審核通過。未來基金架構瑞慈如商辦大樓、物流倉儲中心、公共建設等案源均可作為其投資標的。然後新法通過後將有利於我國公共建設之推動與發展。"},{"start":2642.932,"end":2669.859,"text":"推動公共建設為國家重要政策需要跨部會合作及公司協力推動保險業依現行法令已得透過多元管道投資國內公共建設又保險業資金來自於保護其資金運用應注意收益性、流動性及安全性參與公共建設投資亦需考量風險本會未來將持續配合國家重要政策適時檢討相關法規促進保險業投資公共建設"},{"start":2670.559,"end":2680.294,"text":"以上報告,敬請各位委員指教,並祝各位委員身體健康,萬事如意。謝謝。好,謝謝彭主委。接著請財政部莊部長進行專題報告。"},{"start":2691.479,"end":2706.721,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進、大家好今天貴委員會安排相關部會就如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設．加速建設的推動進行專題報告警究社財政部業務部分簡要說明進行指教"},{"start":2707.442,"end":2712.664,"text":"首先就保險業參與國內公共建設情形報告統計102年到112年民間參與公共建設案件總共有1262件投資金額有1兆4665億元其中保險業投資37件金額是3244億元佔民間參與案件的總投資金額是22%"},{"start":2731.669,"end":2750.204,"text":"保險業投資案件當中,依《促參法》辦理的是有9件,總共365億元,包含文教、觀光遊器、運動設施及交通建設等類別根據金管會的統計資料,截至今年第一季,保險業整體投資、專案運用及公共建設大約6092億元佔保險業"},{"start":2753.973,"end":2781.185,"text":"可投資運用的資金只有1.86%,顯見保險業可運用的資金投資臺灣公共建設仍有相當大的空間。第二個是為各位報告,促參2.0提高保險業投資公共建設的對策。第一個就是111年12月21日我們修正了促參法的部分條文。我們新增了影視、音、綠能、資源循環、再利用及數位建設等公共建設的類別。"},{"start":2782.826,"end":2806.408,"text":"並且在現有的五種民間參與模式之外新增了RTO及ROO兩種模式同時我們也引進國際間常見的政府購買公共服務的機制不但提高了政府預算執行效益也使民間機構有穩定的收益提供保險業更多的投資標的第二個對策就是通盤檢討各類公共建設的重大公共建設範圍"},{"start":2807.859,"end":2826.625,"text":"擴大租稅優惠的對象以及吸引保險業投資。第三個,我們就是搬訂各種促參模式的招商文件跟投資契約的範本,供各主辦機關來參考運用。第四個,就是本部在112年7月也成立了促參案件的履約爭議調解會。"},{"start":2828.666,"end":2837.149,"text":"加速排除履約爭議。迄今已經接受有9件申請案並協助解決爭議。本部每年辦理全國招商大會及建制促參的招商地圖網"},{"start":2845.812,"end":2867.209,"text":"那113年的招商大會我們會籍的商機總共超過了1300億提供保險業等資金多元投資的機會那麼我們看近3年的出差案件簽約金額在持續成長那麼今年到6月簽約金額已經達到187億元和去年同期相比增加了超過6成熱觀預期未來出差的簽約將持續的成長最後"},{"start":2871.832,"end":2900.402,"text":"目前保險業可結合的專業技術廠商共同投資促參案件直接參與國內的公共建設的興建營運然後搭配本部積極推動促參2.0法治環境的優化並且建構全國性的公共建設商機媒合平台有效增加案源以及它的曝光度期望中央及地方政府可以善用促參的方式引進國內資金投入公共建設加速公共建設的推動"},{"start":2901.502,"end":2928.056,"text":"為國人帶來更優質的公共服務。以上報告,敬請各位委員指教。謝謝。好,謝謝莊部長。現在開始詢談哈。每位委員8加2,列席委員5加1。接著上午10點截止發言登記。本次會議委員若有相關修正動議,請送到主席台收件。現在第一位請,林德福林委員。"},{"start":2935.735,"end":2948.48,"text":"謝謝主席、我們議會各列席的單位首長、各官員是不是請中央銀行的嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁委員好副總裁你好我請教因為"},{"start":2960.162,"end":2960.522,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2977.722,"end":2977.982,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3008.897,"end":3018.913,"text":"中金院、台金院公佈之經濟數據景氣互輸力有未逮那你如何來看待未來的我們整個景氣呢?"},{"start":3020.243,"end":3049.2,"text":"報告委員我們今年我們在6月13號的時候我們預估是今年是3.77是比主計總署的3.9是低一點因為我們看到去年的下半年其實台灣經濟的成長的積氣還蠻高的所以今年下半年相對的他成長會減緩一點點所以說你還是看好對好謝謝那副總長你請回去我請彭主委我們金管會請彭主委"},{"start":3051.271,"end":3077.61,"text":"主委您早主委您早我想我們台股近期走勢震盪那主委你對我們的前景依然你認為是樂觀還是未來會有其他的看法呢?報告委員那個其實今晚會是我們市場的主政機關我們對未來不做預期不過我們會密切觀察最近整個台灣的股市確實是走勢震盪啊"},{"start":3079.051,"end":3103.309,"text":"因為市場的波動是難免的我想說我們是關注於整個制度面的健全與否那儘管會確實不太方便對未來的股市做預期那個彭主委預期美國將降息那如何來看待目前整個降息的進度對我們整個台灣影響未來會如何你可不可以"},{"start":3104.029,"end":3121.141,"text":"市場上普遍預期美國大概會9月會降息然後其實影響未來市場的那個那個層面主要因素除了美國的利率政策以外另外就是美國的那個年底的選舉大家預期這兩個可能是最大的變數對"},{"start":3122.822,"end":3149.92,"text":"所以我想說臺灣這一波的股市的發展其實跟我們的基本面是有關剛才央行鳳才也說過我們其實上我們現在的未來的經濟成長率當然還有就是說我們在我們的經濟警測警緝對策裡面也是連續兩次的黃紅燈還就是說我們的出口也持續暢望還是有基本面的支持所以說你對我們整個未來的警緝是看好的還是怎麼樣"},{"start":3151.109,"end":3174.281,"text":"我剛跟委員報告過金管會是會關注到整個市場的健全度我們也注意到市場的現在的反應是否是什麼原因我剛跟那個委員報告過就是我們對未來市場不做預期但是我們會審慎的注意這樣齁是主委阿根據保花中心的統計授權業投資應用與公共建設的項目從投資金額佔授權可應用資金來看"},{"start":3177.327,"end":3201.958,"text":"指佔可應用資金的百分之0.42是百分之0.42換句話說行業的資產規模持續擴大也無法有效來刺激增加這些投資公共建設的金額佔比那請問主委你認為有哪些誘因是有利於刺激並吸引保險業者來提升參與而且"},{"start":3203.298,"end":3226.184,"text":"這個公共建設的這些意願呢?是,報告委員其實受險業的資金長期投資海外有它的整個的時空環境的背景假設台美的那個利差相對是穩定匯率相對穩定的話過去這樣的投資策略其實對於受險業而言它會比較傾向於做海外的投資因為它必須解決它利差的問題所以說國內投資很少?"},{"start":3227.125,"end":3241.664,"text":"對,但是最近因為臺美利差擴大,避險成本增加,其實現在是一個好時機,因為對於受險業而言,現在投資國內,如果有岸緣的話,他們的動機會更強,因為投資海外的風險確實在加大中,所以說,"},{"start":3242.645,"end":3259.463,"text":"本國的投資應該是授權業可以去考慮是不是?所以說我們才想說其實我們應該趁這樣的機會怎麼樣擴大案源怎麼樣把保險業的錢留在台灣建設台灣也可以幫助保險業去花資金也可以幫助保險業降低經營風險"},{"start":3260.475,"end":3275.765,"text":"那你認為這些誘因是不是已經達到了成熟的目的甚至於超越國外投資相同條件的吸引力呢?比如說我們在做那個所謂的那個資本資本的那個那個係數的時候"},{"start":3276.946,"end":3301.492,"text":"我們確實是有做一些比較有利於這樣的一個誘因比如說我們對投資國內的公建的話我們把係數降到一個比較低的係數是希望能夠刺激我們的保險業多多考慮國內的公建當然最重要還是要有案源也是今天我們想說大家應該集社會之努力我們應該更多的案源能夠讓國內的國人不只是保險業能夠有可以投資國內"},{"start":3302.745,"end":3313.171,"text":"那你認為如果保險業者對這些投資公共建設應該是採取主動那才是是不是才能夠真正達到的目的"},{"start":3314.093,"end":3314.734,"text":"主委,媒體報導國安會上個月17號"},{"start":3334.235,"end":3355.743,"text":"召集金管會、經濟部、還有財政部、出產師等部會開會。會中金管會反映業者認為三大難題,包括沒有案源、投報率以及投資的方式。那請問主委,業者所認為的三大難題,你認為是不是全部無解?"},{"start":3356.784,"end":3377.285,"text":"其實我剛剛跟委員報告就是說這個確實有難度就是比如說我們保險業的資金它是有成本的它如果要投資的話必須有三個條件第一個要適合的案源這個案源它的報酬條件也要適合這是第二個第三個是它的方式是用什麼方式直接還是間接還是透過各種的工具我想這些都是我們要努力的"},{"start":3377.725,"end":3385.768,"text":"不過我覺得這件事情確實是現在是一個好的機會因為現在我剛才講整個大環境有利於保險業更加大對國內的投資所以你認為這個"},{"start":3390.134,"end":3418.854,"text":"到底有沒有解套的辦法?如果無解那至愛難行的癥結點到底是什麼?其實剛才講就是說其實保險業的資金主要是因為他有一定的成本所以他其實會要求要超過他的一個資金的成本比如說對保護的承諾所以我想說怎麼樣擴大這樣案源裡面能夠有一個穩定的報酬這件事情而且長期穩定跟他的負債做匹配的話我想這個我們"},{"start":3419.975,"end":3420.075,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3435.457,"end":3462.344,"text":"就誠如剛剛主委您所提提的這些是不是出現曙光又或者是要必須跨部會的去討論你認為呢?謝謝委員我確實覺得這是有出現曙光而且這次跨部會我覺得大家更有誠意像剛才提到國發會他也主動來做這個協調也主動的做這樣的一個釋出我覺得現在政府團隊的氛圍非常的好大家都願意解決國內的問題"},{"start":3463.484,"end":3486.253,"text":"主委,其實本席回想本席第一屆擔任立委在金管會還沒有成立之前當時為鼓勵保險業將多達上千億的資金導入國內的公共建設那財政部單獨列出保險業將資金投入公共建設的項目並給予適當的風險係數作為刺激的誘因"},{"start":3490.234,"end":3516.642,"text":"那經過了20多年每隔一段時間保險業資金投入公共建設的新聞就浮上檯面彷彿看到資金導入公共建設的曙光但事實的證明多半都只是指紋樓梯響不見人下來那我請問主委在您過去多年擔任保險業界這個學者的這些觀察為何20多年來保險業"},{"start":3518.062,"end":3536.315,"text":"至今投入公共建設推動不如預期,你有什麼看法?我想報告委員,其實台灣在過去受險業遇到一個結構性的改變從2002年開始2002年開始台灣的利率大幅的快速下降一直到持續到最近才有比較多的改變這個過去這20年來"},{"start":3539.257,"end":3539.537,"text":"主委啊"},{"start":3561.903,"end":3583.036,"text":"目前有立委提出修正保險法條文打算把保險業海外投資上限由現行可應用的資金45%降到25%那我請問主委你認為修法條件海外投資上限是不是就能夠增加保險業對國內投資的籌碼來刺激保險業主要主動將資金投入國內公共建設你認為這樣可行嗎"},{"start":3590.601,"end":3614.808,"text":"這報告委員這有兩個層面第一個我剛剛報告過其實如果要投資公建剛剛我們整個的額度我們現在還有大概有3兆左右的額度其實這樣是非常非常足夠的那至於說如果真的把那個我們的國外投資比率直接從45調成25的話因為保險業的長期海外的配置都是一個長期投資如果做這樣劇烈的改變其實會產生非常非常大的這個影響"},{"start":3616.528,"end":3620.097,"text":"其實這個東西要審慎要審慎對會不會發生其他不可預期風險的可能呢?"},{"start":3624.268,"end":3647.101,"text":"這可能會對整個國內資本市場、不動產市場還有匯率都會產生重大影響最後一個議題我請教本席相信你非常的清楚保險業的資金大多來自保護需要穩定的收益率但是現實上投入公共建設新建期多為資金支出並沒有說現金流入加上缺乏"},{"start":3648.081,"end":3666.477,"text":"租稅優惠等誘因,就會影響投資公共建設的意願。主委,你說金管會希望先找到實驗型的個案,左翼小步,確定可行,讓外界看到引導受險資金留在台灣的可能性後,再來進行跨部會。"},{"start":3667.698,"end":3694.624,"text":"這個利害關係等的說服工作請問主委推動保險業投入公共建設已經這20多年來就是就你的了解面對三大難題是不是還停留在實驗型的階段現在我覺得已經開始有很大的改變了我覺得至少我們那個施政團隊對這個態度我覺得已經有很大很大的改變我覺得這是很好的契機我們過去不一樣是沒有"},{"start":3696.184,"end":3716.469,"text":"尤其我們現在應該更積極我覺得這是一個很好的契機這樣齁對是如果真的早有進展那是不是代表現實上推動不力的阻力是來自政府反之啊一直以來進展不大關靠實驗型的個案就期盼可以複製貼上你認為真的有可行性嗎"},{"start":3717.569,"end":3744.718,"text":"剛剛報告委員我覺得不盡然都是剛剛政府我覺得是整個環境的因素還有業者他自己經營的考量我也說現在的時機其實是很適合來持續推動那在你的任內推動亞洲資產管理中心是不是就是實現保險業資金投入公共建設的一個關鍵呢報告委員這也是我們在推動亞洲資產管理中心一項重要的工作之一這樣喔好謝謝時間到"},{"start":3754.017,"end":3780.018,"text":"這位質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%"},{"start":3781.82,"end":3794.33,"text":"那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來將回來台灣的資產大概會多少"},{"start":3794.895,"end":3819.4,"text":"報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣那個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁"},{"start":3828.942,"end":3849.362,"text":"副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?"},{"start":3851.912,"end":3873.553,"text":"報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在平衡我們國內經濟的一個"},{"start":3875.114,"end":3896.826,"text":"對啦,這個我了解我只是問你說如果突然之間要9兆的台幣回來台灣新台幣會升值很多吧因為外國的貨幣要購買新台幣才能回來台灣啊那突然之間要買9兆的新台幣那要賣多少的外幣那購買新台幣,新台幣就變得非常搶手我估計至少會漲到24、25、26塊吧"},{"start":3899.167,"end":3914.615,"text":"而且國內的債券市場規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率"},{"start":3918.55,"end":3947.272,"text":"是否有這樣的可能性?呃,我想那是假設性的,對啊。好,那你請回座,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦,我再繼續請教彭主任。請回,請彭主委。是,謝謝。彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸,國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來,他也不能說放在家裡啊,不能說鎖在金庫啊,放在銀行啊,除了資金氾濫之後,要有投資標的啊。是。"},{"start":3949.243,"end":3966.056,"text":"投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話"},{"start":3968.471,"end":3996.223,"text":"會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產,他們都是長期的投資在固定收益,特別是長期的債券上面。他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬。那如果說真的回來,剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的,台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已,那現在也很難容納。那進來以後可以"},{"start":3997.059,"end":3997.779,"text":"的確有這樣的潛在的危險性"},{"start":4018.527,"end":4043.003,"text":"再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是以他舊的那些債長期長債"},{"start":4045.484,"end":4045.724,"text":"本院委員會主席"},{"start":4064.895,"end":4065.315,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4085.351,"end":4106.257,"text":"其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息"},{"start":4106.957,"end":4133.712,"text":"那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期或取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做Five sale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司耶。"},{"start":4134.95,"end":4145.907,"text":"投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啦!我要請你要小心一個事情喔!你這個如果隨便做喔!"},{"start":4146.886,"end":4150.188,"text":"金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況"},{"start":4175.16,"end":4183.429,"text":"那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長"},{"start":4194.15,"end":4214.404,"text":"剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?"},{"start":4215.525,"end":4236.332,"text":"跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定"},{"start":4237.192,"end":4264.22,"text":"對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議"},{"start":4265.32,"end":4291.14,"text":"可以能夠加速的協調處理這樣讓投資者有更有信心我跟你交換意見啦我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內我跟你報告理事長是一個很傑出的人才他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚他現在問題是在哪裡我覺得啦我跟你討教是看看你認不認同最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會很怕人家賺錢"},{"start":4293.194,"end":4307.243,"text":"所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間"},{"start":4308.524,"end":4332.863,"text":"那人家為什麼要來做呢?我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢把K中 我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是 台灣從上到下 從公務員到整個社會喔!只要商人賺錢 這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是 要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會 把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話 我要給你罰錢啦!"},{"start":4336.73,"end":4345.652,"text":"是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員不要去摸、不要去摸、不要去摸我跟書信來用,我怎麼談,沒有你的關係,我叫誰就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子,公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法會要來查啦,大家都要來揭秘、都要來打閉案啦還沒有,到底是不是閉案還沒講,就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛"},{"start":4367.418,"end":4387.353,"text":"我覺得這是一個很對於促參非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫促參這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有促參的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來"},{"start":4388.013,"end":4407.898,"text":"然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊"},{"start":4409.355,"end":4432.89,"text":"報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設或者是觀光遊企、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的"},{"start":4434.351,"end":4462.288,"text":"主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考好 加油啦因為我們多了一些投資的管道讓社會往正確的觀念方向走這些都是未來國家要繼續健全繼續壯大的重要原因大家一起努力 謝謝"},{"start":4466.209,"end":4472.694,"text":"好 謝謝接著請賴世保、賴委員質詢謝謝主席以及各位先進有請金管委的彭主委彭主委"},{"start":4492.996,"end":4508.018,"text":"主委您早有關於今天的主題我們周圍提案利益其實是非常良好的就是台灣現在希望更多來投資台灣"},{"start":4509.019,"end":4535.779,"text":"特別是你可以看到從那個NVIDIA、紅人星之後都來投資台灣、一直投資台灣台灣投資越多台灣就生力就越蓬勃發展這個人民就越有機會畢竟現在來講的話我們看到足跡總書也公布了我們的貧富差距非常嚴重勞工階級、壽星階級三分之二領不到平均薪資"},{"start":4537.55,"end":4562.817,"text":"這將將很難過欸領不到3萬的領不到3萬的有150萬人欸這都財政部公布的數字啊所以這個這個早晚的利益很好啦就是但是你現在一直強調說如果按照這樣子9兆要回來是嗎是的如果按照現在數字來統計的話9兆9兆是什麼概念9兆是什麼概念"},{"start":4566.857,"end":4580.585,"text":"我請問你,知不知道我們的GDP一年幾兆?GDP...呃...我要算一下,對不對?要...要讓總裁來講一下我們GDP一年多少?副...副總裁啊副總裁那個八兆多的新台幣一年八兆GDP啊?不是十幾兆嗎?一二十兆嗎?不是啊?蛤?"},{"start":4597.048,"end":4605.432,"text":"我記得是幾兆18兆18兆啦18兆啦等於有半個我們的GDP要回來現在來講那個主任你剛剛說現在在現有的45%底下"},{"start":4622.577,"end":4641.455,"text":"就有,還有三兆沒有用完是不是?呃,現在以我們現在保險法的規定,就是它以資金的10%,現在只用到,如果說最寬的估計大概就1%,那如果單單公、公建這一塊只有0.42%這,這,這主要是台灣沒有投資標的嘛!"},{"start":4642.887,"end":4655.978,"text":"這是沒有投資標的公建的投資報告也不行然後推出的也少很容易被有心人士特定人士圍標啦幹什麼的而且你會不會擔心股市過熱啊這錢一回來股市不是又暴漲了會不會"},{"start":4661.509,"end":4681.187,"text":"當然如果從供需籌碼來看,確實有這樣的想像請問你,拜託我也問你一下,現在股市有沒有過熱?現在我剛剛也跟委員報告過,其實我們關注的議題是看起來現在台灣是有基本面的支撐,還有一些我們看看整個的交易量或什麼,我們在都密切關注,我覺得我們的平均EPS多少?"},{"start":4681.847,"end":4704.336,"text":"我們平均股市的報酬率現在大概是2.66左右多少我們的應該是2.66我的數字EPS什麼2.66不是EPS就是股市的那個本益比本益比是22左右美國多少美國的部分這個我們這個可能要來局長來來當一下搶手張局長"},{"start":4708.41,"end":4719.475,"text":"美國多少?香港勒?就是你二十幾的那個EPS到底台灣是偏高還是偏低?一般來講是偏...不會偏高喔多少?剛剛那個數字是殖利率殖利率是2點多啦2.5殖利率是2.5"},{"start":4738.342,"end":4764.494,"text":"我知道殖利率啦我問你問題那個不是殖利率啦我問他那個本利比啦幾倍啦幾倍美國幾倍美國24.84香港勒香港11.24比起香港我是偏高的大概美國跟香港差一半"},{"start":4766.963,"end":4771.149,"text":"房地產會不會也鼓勵到時候房地產一倍衝破一層?會不會?"},{"start":4774.244,"end":4775.804,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。"},{"start":4803.942,"end":4813.245,"text":"現在的話就是說他有個額度可以自己投但是我們現在超過40他要一個一個來所以你是反對修法我們當然覺得說現況如果做這樣的修法對市場衝擊過大我們剛剛也報告過我們持保留也希望能夠維持現在的條文"},{"start":4830.892,"end":4836.337,"text":"8月15日,環境部說要進行碳礁域運作。政交所有一個碳礁域"},{"start":4847.645,"end":4848.085,"text":"國內對國外交易什麼時候?"},{"start":4867.944,"end":4886.27,"text":"我記得碳交易所在去年7月成立以後,去年年底就曾經做過那個交易,對,就是國內的金控公司、金融機構也開始進行這個購買,對,不過這個碳交易的…購買是購買國外的喔,購買國外的,沒有購買國內的喔,沒有購買國內的,國內對國內沒有喔,沒有開放喔"},{"start":4890.148,"end":4910.449,"text":"我們可能預計下半年,這部分因為前陣子也有跟那個環境部,因為這跟環境部的整個政策推動有關。今年底可以期待嗎?今天?今年底。今年我們是,剛剛局長,對不對?局長剛剛跟我講是下半年。這什麼時候嘛,你剛剛說下半年。9月、12月、10月、11月。"},{"start":4914.456,"end":4927.841,"text":"對,這個齁,這個其實這個雖然說那個碳交易所是由這個譬如證交所下面,但是實際上這牽涉到我們沒有我們是預期就是明年,但詳細的時間我們這邊沒辦法,在這邊還要跟環境部做協調"},{"start":4936.083,"end":4936.464,"text":"兩位長官好"},{"start":4967.85,"end":4987.855,"text":"這個現在有一個題目就是我們看到現在大概最熱的題目之一啦叫猜量行動好啦他們有一個什麼什麼猜量行動啦血灰還有血灰的名義喔他已經達標的目到了700多萬"},{"start":4990.563,"end":5000.083,"text":"七百多我請問部長按照規定按照你們輔助署所得稅法第11條的規定"},{"start":5003.036,"end":5019.264,"text":"這些的協會或者基金會他如果是人家捐款給你就捐款for捐款only沒有問題這個就看他一年月額這個有沒有花掉70%沒有70%要課稅但是他有賣比如說這基金會有賣書或者協會有賣什麼東西我現在就有了他們就賣T恤"},{"start":5029.389,"end":5039.607,"text":"有賣T恤?請問你,他有沒有跟你交營業稅?有沒有跟你交營業稅?有沒有?會不會我是不是可以請署長來?好,署長可以。"},{"start":5041.734,"end":5062.081,"text":"謝謝委員的吹詢那這個我們應該分兩塊就第一個到底這個集資平台現在看起來是一個集資的方式那接下來是誰提出這樣的集資平台他集資的資金要用在什麼地方那如果他現在是一個機關團體就像剛剛委員他有一個協會"},{"start":5065.762,"end":5089.349,"text":"您要查一下它是不是屬於符合我們所謂教育文化公益慈善機關所以它有一定的條件如果是符合的話那根據我們四條意向十三所謂需要四條意向十三款的規定它符合行政所得稅有第十一條規定很清楚喔它是教育文化公益慈善機關或團體有銷售貨物或老物要報生營業稅"},{"start":5091.71,"end":5111.041,"text":"要報營利稅啊!甚至要報所得稅啊!是!對吧?我講對吧?委員剛剛您提到的是我們所得稅法第4條第一項第13款規定它是針對所得稅的部分它是說如果你是符合我們教育文化公益資產機關團體符合行政院標準那它就要申報"},{"start":5111.681,"end":5116.963,"text":"這個單位有沒有跟你報營業稅我就問你這個單位有沒有我要去去確認才會知道他要報喔他要報喔他已經截止了"},{"start":5134.668,"end":5150.668,"text":"四月十五日他五月就截止了四月十五日的代表今年六月要向你報營業稅我們營業稅是每兩個月報繳是七月這單數月所以要七月十五號看他有沒有七月十五號要報對"},{"start":5151.949,"end":5167.843,"text":"您要提醒他要報喔,這個我覺得是問題很大。好,那個陳政秘長,我問你喔,你那個新青恩專案你不是開始修理了嗎?這個有開始剎車了喔,你也做一個報告。"},{"start":5169.246,"end":5189.833,"text":"你已經做一個報告 刑情案專案其實你已經報告都有了 可是你沒公佈你那個平均一千件 有幾件有類似人頭或者是這個你不要說詐騙啦齁 類似人頭的不正當說法做法 有幾件 一千件裡面"},{"start":5191.315,"end":5199.673,"text":"呃這個部分吼我們呃針對先對高風險的案子篩出來然後有行庫他會去逐案的去了解逐案去了解對"},{"start":5202.843,"end":5217.275,"text":"結果要出來啊,結果現在沒有啊可是我知道是訊息,你們已經有了,你們答案有了沒有嗎?還沒有答案嗎?不是啊,都在持續的追查當中啊,對現在違規的情況我們還沒有,那個行庫還沒有回報回來"},{"start":5229.554,"end":5253.864,"text":"我們會在稍後再會跟他們查一個時間一段時間我們會跟他們再請他們回報是好最後一點最後一點我問你啊這個這個不要急嘛我這時間很短這個健保健保署這衛福部長啊要預祝癌症新基金新藥基金100億他現在動到9這個念頭來了他要課9捐這你知不知道"},{"start":5259.875,"end":5260.736,"text":"郭國文、郭昭瑋"},{"start":5297.569,"end":5308.037,"text":"主席有請彭主委跟嚴副總裁請彭主委還有副總裁嚴副總裁嗎?慢慢來沒關係,請嚴副總裁"},{"start":5325.836,"end":5341.249,"text":"主委我先說因為大家討論蠻多的如果假設今天的這個條文通過的話預計大概有9.53兆資金會回到台灣那台灣的資金會去哪裡大家非常清楚不是去房市就去股市"},{"start":5341.929,"end":5361.38,"text":"那依照目前資金過剩的情況底下我對這個條文老實講羅財委我真的沒有辦法贊成因為我其實對這個資金氾濫的問題其實憂心忡忡就如同我藉著這個議題也請教一下兩位就我發現呢央行對於整個這個不動產土建融的這個指標是不同的"},{"start":5361.9,"end":5384.928,"text":"你看看央行不動產的販款佔全部的販款比重的金額是13.75但是對照於金管會它扣除掉土銀之後只有國銀的部分的這個不動產呢這根據72條之二的部分呢央行的金額居然低過金管會你們有沒有覺得在這兩個金額當中有什麼樣的落差我記得央行的報告有提過特別是山高的部分就有提到這兩項"},{"start":5386.96,"end":5413.751,"text":"主要是那個金融債券的那個就是這邊的72條之二把那一塊放進去把他拿掉了金融債券的部分那金額大概多少呢金融債券應該是有但是直接在不動產那邊我沒有資料但金融債券大概是一兆多左右因為主要還是在於這個所謂的金額的部分嘛我們還是要釐清那個數字嘛麻煩總裁你會後再給我一下因為中秀是要有一個統一的指標我們來看待"},{"start":5414.171,"end":5414.651,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":5434.245,"end":5435.345,"text":"主管機關在必要時還可以規定銀行在但書販款還有一個最高額度。"},{"start":5454.052,"end":5454.492,"text":"中央銀行局局長"},{"start":5470.282,"end":5489.51,"text":"報言如果就是排除掉的部分我們把它加回來的話其實還是沒有超過30那總數多少大概差不多2929左右29左右29左右就接近了對接近了不過這個部分我們有要求銀行要嚴格的控管"},{"start":5489.79,"end":5497.875,"text":"要員口的控管所以說已經接近30%看起來26、27但是其實接近29就詳細的數字再給我一下但是你72條之二的部分這五款當中你還有一個解壓縮條款什麼是解壓縮條款呢也就是說你在2018年的時候金管會又出一個函這個函號熱熱等我都不說了"},{"start":5514.404,"end":5542.098,"text":"這個擴大解釋的部分當中呢這包括醫院、學校、政府我這還可以理解到後面那個主委我跟您提醒一下連廠房的這一個條款這個貸款的金額也排除還有都更的部分的條款也排除甚至能營建工程的營運周轉金也排除我覺得你這個後門會不會開得太大啊"},{"start":5544.158,"end":5570.335,"text":"主委,我們其實前陣子我們有在檢討裡面的它的範圍跟定義這部分我們會請那個銀行局在那邊再來檢視對,你把天條開一個大後門,那後門越開越大怪不得你這個普建融的資本會不斷地集中嘛結果後來發現,原來死忠焉的庸者是來自於天條的一個後門條款嘛對啊"},{"start":5574.448,"end":5596.588,"text":"主委你這個真的要好好地把關一下啦這點我們會注意喔剛剛那個局長有提到有關都更部分那局長要不要簡單補充一下報告委員因為107年的這個裡面有一些部分像都更圍繞的這個部分的話它本來就在都更或圍繞的那個法律規定裡面就已經排除了我們只是把它納到這個107年的這個函"},{"start":5598.666,"end":5628.126,"text":"那當初你們就應該也要這個警覺線嘛你如果任何相關土建農的規定任何單一法規的部分都予以排除的話那個土建農的金額就不斷的上升啊不是嗎那你這個天條的意義又在哪裡30%的上限又在哪裡這天花板會自動的調升欸浮動式的欸不是嗎主委是所有洋行的報告當中最關鍵的因素之所以今天啊房地產會居高不下就是資本過度集中嘛"},{"start":5629.167,"end":5629.467,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":5648.144,"end":5676.246,"text":"一個月我們可以把一個月以後把那個報告再跟委員說明你們要包括如何檢討、如何限縮把那後門關起來想盡辦法好不好是讓資本一直集中上去嘛所以接下來我想問一下主委的部分主委你也知道本席很關心台中商營嘛台中商營本席去跟你了解一下你們總共前前後後就是精檢了五次"},{"start":5677.219,"end":5696.839,"text":"在第二次的時候就發現了這個交際會的申報有所缺失但你們有做行政的處分但是真正的去送到這一個地檢署是在案發四年之後這一點我想請主委你可能要再說明清楚一下"},{"start":5697.58,"end":5713.633,"text":"因為你現在把所有的焦點放在檢察局一個集合人員跟王國匯風的秘書有往來這個是檢察局內部的內機內控出問題可是這家公司的內機內控出問題那我們要怎麼處理?主委"},{"start":5715.174,"end":5715.295,"text":"主席"},{"start":5735.768,"end":5753.32,"text":"那SOP會跟他討論這個案情本期就是在討論給你SOP你的SOP應該是出了問題了你回去好好因這個案子好好調整一下啦不要過度寬鬆啦第二個吼你知道嗎在你們檢察局當中你們有去查過啊臺中商營啊為什麼蓋這個企業總部"},{"start":5756.333,"end":5766.874,"text":"資本額300億的一個銀行結果他花了100億來蓋這個大樓你不覺得不合比例嗎而且還挖了10層樓地下室還挖了10層樓"},{"start":5768.749,"end":5789.634,"text":"原因聽說啊,台中的沙石特別好啊。這一頭牽扯到土地出售方是誰,我跟你說,就我理解是新復發啊。中間牽扯到綜藝的這個交易人是誰,你要去查清楚。你這一件金檢局有沒有送到地檢署,你也應該要查清楚啊。"},{"start":5792.113,"end":5807.463,"text":"背後的利益結構你沒有把它披露出來到現在為止還疑雲重重啊不是把說焦點放在那個可憐的公務人員因為交情或錯交朋友然後現在好像事情就跑到他身上去了"},{"start":5808.24,"end":5834.386,"text":"主委是不過我想說本部本會人員這個涉案部分應該跟這個是我覺得是會從不同的角度考量對自己內部的控制有這個問題我們也深表遺憾我們也在內部也做過很多檢討然後也做過一些很多的改善措施為責成這個檢察局一定要務必要落實講白一點這個案子你要去重新看一下"},{"start":5835.146,"end":5855.666,"text":"有無缺失有無該處分沒有處分有無該移送沒有移送你要重新去思考這件事情啊來建立一個範例啊在你上任之後啦好不好金融機關的內積內空出了這麼大的問題對不對好牽扯到內積內空的問題你又看到啦又牽扯到讀懂的角色啦一個立法委員會兼任讀懂"},{"start":5859.665,"end":5880.463,"text":"當他當了獨董的時候你這個公司自己出問題的時候這立法院出來跟你講話的時候這個是獨董還是門審我說假設有這種情況這第一個狀況第二個呢你去看喔過往啊在熱身案幾年前就有類似這種獨董搬掏空400億三個獨董都沒有事情那你難道都是簽到而已嗎對啊等下課嗎"},{"start":5888.4,"end":5902.385,"text":"過了這麼多年我們對獨董現在的狀況就是有權無責有獨董隨便薪資就一年上千億大股東提名拿了一千億他還有獨立性嗎少則平均行情大概一百萬"},{"start":5905.047,"end":5917.145,"text":"難道獨董可以這樣有權無責嗎?我不點名我前同事除了那個前同事李姓立委之外他的獨董還有誰?一個是國民黨的大佬徐立德的侄子"},{"start":5919.625,"end":5943.98,"text":"叫徐立業專門找這種人這種人專業能力在哪裡是關係取向還是專業取向你們要不要搞清楚要不要科與讀懂應該有的責任這是第一個你要去思考的問題第二個不適應的讀懂有沒有黑名單就像我們政府採購法當中有一些審查委員的名冊當中不好的就把它剔除掉有沒有可能"},{"start":5945.919,"end":5974.787,"text":"主委我們獨立董事是定在我們的政交法裡面的規定那我們會來就是這當然制度我們都會按照那個與時俱進來檢討啦那我會請我們政協局來檢討這個問題我跟你講喔獨董他基本上是監察人角色的轉換喔他權力是不是一般的董事喔薪酬委員會、審計委員會他幾乎都是當然的這個成員是現在是"},{"start":5975.376,"end":5990.231,"text":"就是監察人的部分沒有好好監察以致於內機內控出問題他是在筷子一支前面的內部的把關者就是陪著整個負責人去吃喝玩樂、坐飛機、出國旅遊這還像讀懂嗎虧損了、掏空了11億他沒有事情"},{"start":6000.315,"end":6004.581,"text":"難道不能從類似像美國的部分對會計事務所一樣的究責嗎?現在我們要討論會計事務所要跟他究責,這個獨董難道不應該究責嗎?"},{"start":6012.264,"end":6029.899,"text":"就是獨立董事也是公司法董事的一部分那這個部分因為特別是獨立董事是郵金管會主政但是他一般董事該負的責任他還是一樣要按照公司法跟一般的來負責他跟一般的董事的權利又更不一樣"},{"start":6030.7,"end":6033.441,"text":"主委,我希望看到你的魄力跟改革。謝謝。"},{"start":6058.772,"end":6073.193,"text":"這位質詢請李坤澄、李委員來,謝謝主席我們請這個彭主委彭主委"},{"start":6076.866,"end":6100.086,"text":"李委好彭主委好這個延續剛剛這個我們郭昭偉的話題這個臺中上銀的前董事長王貴峰他被這個具體求刑15年病科罰金新台幣5億元但是這個檢察官在查的時候有查出一個案外案嘛那這案外案是有一位金管會的檢察局的一位理性的集合員他是內鬼"},{"start":6101.087,"end":6125.594,"text":"那按照這個檢察官的這個起訴的內容來看他是從112年4月到113年的1月這長達大概7、8個月的時間洩漏這一個就是我們金檢局我們這個金管會這一個要調查的內容給這個台中商營那請問一下現在你們這個內部的懲處的調查的情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":6128.286,"end":6133.132,"text":"那可不可以請張局長跟他講最近要做的事情因為現在這個檢察官有起訴這個李姓的這個集合員嘛對不對是給他這個還起訴啦那這個內部的行政的懲處勒"},{"start":6143.556,"end":6156.404,"text":"我們在6月25號先把他調離檢查的職務讓他做比較內勤的工作就跟金融業者比較沒有直接關係這第一點那實際上才調離而已才調離限制而已真正的行政程序我們這禮拜會完成"},{"start":6159.467,"end":6160.107,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":6180.08,"end":6199.417,"text":"這位同學他在那個檢查過程那個偵查程序的時候他承認了他這些泄密的這些行為嘛對那我們就是以這個為主因為我們對他瞭解對他承認是他有做那我的問題是說除了他之外還有其他人嗎那個我們會在那個在跟他做行政懲處的時候會請他答辯會再跟他會再問他對"},{"start":6202.219,"end":6202.979,"text":"所以你們有正式的行政調查嗎?"},{"start":6224.461,"end":6242.454,"text":"這件行政調查是我們會在那個懲處的時候會再跟他請他說明,剩下部分是我在我個人就跟他談的時候我有問他他說他在檢察官裡面怎麼講那這算是正式調查嗎?還是就是說你局長就直接去問他?我是說這件事情非同小可啊,應該是要正式的一個行政調查"},{"start":6243.615,"end":6267.92,"text":"主要是說因為他整案他在檢調那邊已經調查完畢而且他也承認了所以我們用這個做基本事實來做相關的後續處理對那主委我的問題是說除了他之外還沒有其他人剛才局長沒有回答我這個問題這當然就是這個我沒有去查嗎那事情發生以後呢我有好幾次就跟檢察局講說一定要了解這整個的始末我們不容再犯"},{"start":6268.76,"end":6286.158,"text":"所以設檢察局立刻就調整他內部的保密的一些規定我也希望他定期的跟我回報再來相關的懲處應該趕快進行那最終懲處是什麼這其實我們公務員涉案其實有相關的法規的規定"},{"start":6287.079,"end":6307.853,"text":"比如說剛剛那個局長講的就是公務員保障法跟考機法裡面都有針對這個程序做一定就剛才講說那個時程還是要保障當事人的權益然後再來就是說他該怎麼樣的撤職或是這樣一個過程就是可能都要按照我們的那個法律規定來我當然知道但是我就是問就是說這個"},{"start":6310.413,"end":6338.434,"text":"除非你們已經調查過了那就是只有這個李姓的集合員他洩密那這件事情可能內部的控管就是到他但是我不確定說還有沒有那我這樣聽下來好像你們也沒有再去查就是只有針對檢察官查他的部分去查而已啦其實剛剛局長講的比較保守啦其實我們在局長跟內部跟政風人員都有對這件事情做仔細的了解因為畢竟剛才這已經是完成問偵查我覺得只是說除了局長自己去問之外政風有沒有介入啊"},{"start":6339.895,"end":6357.361,"text":"有啊,當然有。對。局長,你八月份要退休囉?是。是。跟這件事情沒有關係吧?完全沒有。沒有關係。個人的生涯規劃。對。是。好。那我再請教一下這一個這個主委齁,那請這個保險局的局長。呃,是局長。"},{"start":6363.305,"end":6376.498,"text":"在這個6月12號的時候大家也關心到就是說這個星光人壽還有這個山上人壽他們的這個資本市值率沒有達標嘛那時候你是提到說這個6月底之前呢"},{"start":6377.972,"end":6404.287,"text":"這個會聽他們的這個具體的這個改善的這個計畫那現在也7月出了嘛那7月1號新光人壽的這個董事長由這個新光金控的董事長由原來這個人壽的這個董事長魏寶生來出任嘛那他我看他在這個報紙上他也提出了一些具體改善的計畫那請問一下局長好了這一個兩家公司的這個計畫你看過了嗎那你滿意嗎"},{"start":6407.484,"end":6421.611,"text":"跟委員報告,大概新光人壽的這個改善計畫就如媒體所說的,因為董事長大概已經對外說明了,他們有提出來不是媒體所說的啦,應該他有沒有把這個計畫,不是媒體講的,這個時候他有沒有把這個計畫給你他有把財業改善計畫給我們,那大概也如他所說的,就是他有提出現金增資的"},{"start":6430.355,"end":6430.455,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6450.447,"end":6451.848,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢"},{"start":6469.565,"end":6470.886,"text":"那你有沒有給他一個delight?"},{"start":6499.846,"end":6517.248,"text":"這個部分可能我們會看看怎麼處理,再給他一個時間線。換句話說,他們的改善計畫,星光人獸算是有通過了,然後山上人獸沒有通過。目前還沒有通過。還沒有通過。對對對。那你給他們的Date Line,計畫還要再提上來,至少說計畫何時再提上來,有沒有一個Date Line?"},{"start":6518.589,"end":6533.638,"text":"這個部分可能我們會有一些行政處理時間之後會確定這個時間我們也是希望他今年年底以前應該有一個進展你以為不能說這個新光人壽他已經講說八月了然後山上人壽可以拖到年底"},{"start":6534.717,"end":6553.997,"text":"看他的那個真正採取的措施需要的合理期間有時候還要適當是給壓力啊不然就一直拖啊這個部分我們會處理所以還是要給點壓力啦時間上也是一個壓力啊請教一下主委今天提到就是說這個"},{"start":6556.516,"end":6559.6,"text":"要把這一個保險法第146條之四條降保險業的國外投資總額從45條降到25那金管會的立場勒?"},{"start":6567.664,"end":6589.782,"text":"各位委員報告我們剛剛有說過就是因為現在如果做這樣的更動對於保險業資產配置以及國內市場的衝擊可能會非常的大所以我們是持保留態度希望維持原來的條文不過老師講這個保險業者投資國內的這些公共建設的確比例是偏低這個2024年的第一季是1335億元然後佔整個這個保險業的資金才0.42%"},{"start":6595.186,"end":6595.206,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":6610.798,"end":6635.413,"text":"讓他能夠投資不是說你現在連可以在國內投資的這些這個保險業的這些金額還沒有在國內投資你就說我要降低從45%然後降低到25%然後又引進了大概9兆的資金回到台灣所以這個也是大家的一個疑問就是說國內有沒有這些投資的標的可以吸引我們的保險業者來做投資的"},{"start":6637.213,"end":6657.874,"text":"剛剛不管是財政部部長或央行副總裁都有提到了就是說我們現在的現況確實距離法定上限目標很遠我們在政治上也是希望說臺灣的保險業能夠更多的資金投入臺灣因為臺灣確實未來需要很多公共建設只是說這個你們還要再提出更具體的計畫因為我有看你們的報告"},{"start":6658.755,"end":6685.227,"text":"經管外財政部我看過那請教一下主委啦這一個中央銀行曾經有一個對這個美國財政部匯率政策的報告那其中提到說這個美國財政部呢這一個也密切關注這個台灣分銀行金融部門的風險包含這個匯率的風險就是說台灣的受險資金還有國外投資的這個匯率風險那如果啦這個一下從45降到25有9兆的這個資金回來的話"},{"start":6687.284,"end":6696.779,"text":"那會不會說因為你要變現嘛會不會要賣美國的公債然後呢會不會引發這個美國的高度關切這個有沒有想過啊"},{"start":6697.955,"end":6720.861,"text":"這個當然是央行會更專業來回答這個問題我剛才其實我們央行副總裁也有回答過這個問題那我覺得這個東西這麼大的金額在跨境的移動我想一定會引發很大的影響我想可能會引起很多很多的大家的關切跟考慮這一定會這還是建議一下金管會啦第一個用行政指導原則齁"},{"start":6722.081,"end":6749.497,"text":"這個逐步降低國外投資的比例然後檢討投資國內不動財的最低收益的標準那上次有提過就是說受選資金要求一定比例投入公共建設當時金管會是比較投持這個保留的態度但是呢這個我們雖然不支持說一下子調降比例這麼多但是我們都支持受選業者應該要多一些資金當然我們要提供多一些誘因希望他們來投資公共建設但是我看你們報告"},{"start":6750.598,"end":6778.413,"text":"還有在加油的部分,好不好?是,確實要加強,確實我們要更努力,謝謝好,謝謝,謝謝主席,好,謝謝接著請賴會員、賴委員諮詢謝謝主席有請我們的金管會主委,還有我們的促參司司長林彭主委、促參司李司長"},{"start":6783.393,"end":6811.624,"text":"委員好是主委我想針對今天修法的這個議題那就是說單純降低受險業的一個資金從海外投資的一個比例那其實有沒有辦法解決問題有沒有配套的一個修法然後我們擔心讓回流的資金流入了股市及房市那剛才聽到主委回答得非常清楚這些如果是我們從"},{"start":6813.485,"end":6813.685,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6841.425,"end":6870.33,"text":"那其實在七年底可以應用的資金是32兆那我想請教這個主委就是說如果再加上不動產上的一個地上權還有有駕鎮建那還有就是目前還有就是2.4兆的一個額度可以提供那個公建的一個建設那從這一個數字裡頭你來看的時候你對於今天的一個修法那你"},{"start":6871.09,"end":6891.144,"text":"最直接有沒有什麼樣的一個問題?多出來的錢怎麼辦?是,跟委員報告,就是剛剛提到就是說這次的修法其實為了鼓勵投資公建那其實這是我們是支持的但是就以這個目的而言但是我們看到就是我們現在要投資公建額度還非常的大"},{"start":6891.684,"end":6891.965,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6908.487,"end":6933.858,"text":"主委錢不是越多越好嗎?投資的金額不是越多越好嗎?這要看有那個標的跟未納就剛才提到就是說當我們台灣有很好投資工具的時候保險業自然會來投資我想說如果台灣沒有這麼多的工具他自然就會因為他的資金是有成本他一定會去尋找出路這出路的話根據我們保險法146的規定他有很多的項目他可以投資其中可能就是大家比較關切的像比如說"},{"start":6934.778,"end":6936.28,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。"},{"start":6949.815,"end":6974.825,"text":"所以這個非常清楚嘛那我們針對全國21家的受險公司海外的一個投資都超過25%那甚至就是說我們如果下修到這個25%的話全國的保險公司可能都會重新再做他的資產分配那我們之後就是說其實在這個21家的一個受險公司裡頭幾乎大家這個"},{"start":6975.965,"end":6976.145,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6995.282,"end":7018.166,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7018.266,"end":7046.562,"text":"一個比例一個比例申請的這事加代表說他們在整個封控或整個的資產配置做得好我們才會讓他提高到這麼高是那他們在做這個配置的時候單單這幾家的配置我在猜的金額非常的大這個我們可能沒有詳細說這回來對他衝擊有多大但不過我們可以想像剛剛就是整體來講這個是一個很龐大的一個數字非常龐大的數字就是相較於我們以台灣的市場的未納量這可能是真的沒辦法這麼快速的支撐容納不下"},{"start":7048.143,"end":7048.944,"text":"主委、董事長"},{"start":7078.063,"end":7096.476,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7097.529,"end":7124.724,"text":"是,謝謝委員的提示那有關跟金管會的合作其實金管會最近在修所謂的投信投顧法我們也有提供相當的意見給金管會這邊來參考那以這個財政部的立場呢我想我們主要是出攤法的一個主管機關所以大概我們會針對機關跟所謂的投資企業兩邊那來分別給予一些協助"},{"start":7125.744,"end":7148.591,"text":"尤其在機關的部分,我們大概分成用獎勵,譬如說發放簽約的獎勵金,讓獎勵金的用途可以更好用。鼓勵機關能夠來使用這些獎勵金,讓初餐的執行更順暢。除了獎勵還有什麼其他的一個方式,可以讓這些受選業者有穩定的一個收入呢?"},{"start":7149.093,"end":7168.392,"text":"那對於業者來講其實所謂的有償PVP的這些案件目前我們也正在做所謂的政策評估那未來包括像焚化爐、污水下水道甚至交通建設的這些都可以用這樣的一個模式綠能綠能也是同樣的可以納入"},{"start":7169.113,"end":7169.273,"text":"市長,您講得嚴謹"},{"start":7184.212,"end":7184.472,"text":"東華大學東華大學"},{"start":7211.118,"end":7234.993,"text":"就是他評估就是在整個強震的災損裡頭那損失了20億那各界的捐款其實不多啦那可是我們針對的就是說教育部他編了預算就是把這個20億的一個災損預計在三年到位可是在這裡我想那個請教請教那個就是我們的那個主委"},{"start":7237.719,"end":7257.05,"text":"這個東華大學的校舍地震引起的一個火災那保險公司為什麼不理賠?那買了保險是不是有利於就是說對我們災損的一個協助呢?這個齁我們會去了解一下他買的那個所謂的險種是什麼因為其實"},{"start":7258.646,"end":7280.203,"text":"各位在這邊也趁這個機會跟大家稍微做一個宣導很多人在做這個風險管理購買保險的時候他可能沒有仔細去看清楚他承保的範圍我想這件事情我們會了解以後再跟委員報告他保單的內容還有就是他現在理賠的狀況再跟委員做說明"},{"start":7281.363,"end":7303.428,"text":"主委,你是風管的一個專家,那如果我們針對這幾個大學,它都是在一個斷層帶上面,那這些學校我們簡單的去把它找出來、搜尋出來,就是說其實它很多校舍,然後它並沒有投保商業的地震險。"},{"start":7304.488,"end":7326.8,"text":"那甚至就是說民間的民間的一般的一個住宅其實大概只有四成投了這個地震險那大家都買了火險那只有成大他其實還有買了一個那個基本的地震險那你怎麼去看待就是說所有的學校還有公務系統裡頭我們的保險的一個能量是這麼弱"},{"start":7328.22,"end":7348.626,"text":"是,謝謝委員,這個委員蒐集資料真的很完整就是說這個確實我們在過去投保火災險的時候因為大家都沒有注意到其實地震因為我們過去是因為假設你有房貸的話你有房貸的話通常我們銀行實務就會要求你要買一個這個火險這時候就會一定搭有這個所謂地震險的基本的地震保險對這個"},{"start":7350.326,"end":7350.346,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":7369.946,"end":7393.36,"text":"主委,不是只有學校切法風險管理的一個概念連重大的公共建設其實也是一樣切法這個風險管理的一個概念你知道就是我們從新北那個黃川縣這個4.42億裡頭其實他沒有買保險他只有廠商的保固險那保固險還賠不到那你看"},{"start":7394.241,"end":7403.08,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7403.396,"end":7403.756,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7433.021,"end":7457.252,"text":"那你是風險管理專家所以這個我想由我們自身做起謝謝委員的提醒我們一定是趕快來去了解所以我舉的一個案例就是台積電的風險管理的一個做法它其實都是一個提高國家跟災害的一個應變能力它本來損失了兩三百億可是它扣除了保險理賠之後它相關的地震的損失才"},{"start":7458.112,"end":7482.473,"text":"只有30億這個都是我們一個非常好的一個參考的一個標的在這裡本席要求金管會就是評估就是如何跟各個機關合作提供業者更多的一個投資臺灣基礎建設的一個誘因那也希望你跟各機關的合作盤點現有的一個設備的風險管理狀況那協助建立中央風險控管的一個系統謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":7490.512,"end":7508.949,"text":"下一位質詢請嚴寬恆、嚴委員主席、各位列席官員、各位委員大家早主席我想請金管會彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":7514.06,"end":7538.867,"text":"主委好,針對如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設：加速建設之推動保險業資金作為穩定可觀的資金來源應該能夠在公共建設當中發揮更大的作用目前保險業資金參與公共建設的程度非常有限僅佔可運用資金的0.42%"},{"start":7540.828,"end":7557.201,"text":"那目前我國保險業資金主要投資在债券、股票、不動產等傳統資產而參與公共建設的比例非常低那這主要是因為現行法規對於保險資金運用的限制還有公共建設項目的投資風險還有回報週期比較長這些原因"},{"start":7563.566,"end":7579.127,"text":"現行法規對於保險資金的運用有一定的限制比例不得超過資產總額的百分之三十在這一定程度上限制了保險資金投入公共建設的"},{"start":7580.128,"end":7580.408,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":7606.218,"end":7625.679,"text":"報告委員您提到這個三個原因確實比如說像第二個原因跟第三個原因確實那第一個原因容我說明一下其實保險業它根據保險法146條之二裡面可以投資在不動產的額度剛剛委員也提到30%其實我們現在實際的投入應該是遠低於這個"},{"start":7626.34,"end":7653.102,"text":"所以我們這個不動產的投資比例應該不會限制到這個公建那只是我們對不動產的投資有很多比如說避免炒房我們是不可以投入住宅也對於投入商辦我們有一定的最低報酬率的限制這個東西可能是我們比較對於市場管控的一些比較多的措施但是這個比例的部分根據我們的現在的評估是不需要做這個修法因為我們不管是不動產投資現在比例"},{"start":7653.823,"end":7668.421,"text":"其實加上比如說BOT這些案例其實都還有很多的額度所以這個部分保險法146條的規定這個部分對於不動產投資的比例有所限制所以我才想要問說"},{"start":7669.807,"end":7694.197,"text":"主委,這院板,您要不要提出院板,針對保險資金投入公共建設的部分來做一個修正。提高它的比例。如果這樣的話,如果我們市場上已經有普遍存在非常適合的投資工具的話,我們可以考量朝這個方向來思考。但現在問題是,假設我們規定有一定的比例要投資公建,問題是我們現在的沒有那麼多的"},{"start":7695.017,"end":7696.898,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會．加速建設之推動．加速建設之推動"},{"start":7722.516,"end":7740.876,"text":"對,就像你報告裡面也寫到就是說要推動公共建設作為這個國家的重要政策那配合國家重要政策適時的檢討相關法規促進保險業者投入公共建設所以你剛剛提到說投資工件、標的物這些部分都必須要去創造是的"},{"start":7743.258,"end":7760.775,"text":"所以第一個它的風險性以及它的我們剛剛有提到就是說政策變動或者是市場風險然後呢投資金額量體很大回收的週期很長所以這個才需要我們國家政策的一個介入然後來幫助它"},{"start":7761.736,"end":7778.449,"text":"這部分所以我想請主委來做一個更具體的一個設想好不好那再來就是說我再提出啦我也要解決等於說促進保險業者擴大參與公共建設那我提出幾點的建議"},{"start":7780.09,"end":7806.316,"text":"調整法規的限制就像你的報告裡面有提到適當的放寬這些公共建設的一個投資的限制提高保險資金在基礎設施和公共服務領域的一個投資比例制定一個針對性的政策鼓勵保險公司參與公共建設的項目第二點就是建立投資保障機制"},{"start":7809.737,"end":7837.047,"text":"經管會應該要建立健全的一個公共建設項目投資保障機制這部分來保障我們的保險公司第三項就是提供稅收優惠相關的這些基地措施那對於積極參與公共建設的保險公司提供稅收優惠那基地保險公司來參加對於這種公共建設一個投資那主委"},{"start":7838.127,"end":7864.685,"text":"促進保險業資金參與公共建設．能為我國公共建設提供穩定的資金來源．而且還能夠提升保險公司的一個資產配置效率．實現雙贏．然後促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設的部分那我們召委羅明才召委提案保險業目前依法海外投資最高可達可運用資金的45%"},{"start":7866.306,"end":7891.563,"text":"那這是經過了我看這個報告裡面他經過了從這個81年然後89年96年三次的修法把原來的一個比例從20%一直提高到45%對,從5%一直提高到45那昭緯他是希望說能夠把這個資金能夠"},{"start":7897.042,"end":7897.322,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7925.785,"end":7925.885,"text":"主席"},{"start":7948.677,"end":7948.917,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7969.237,"end":7990.977,"text":"不管是鼓勵或是提醒保險公司多多來投資這樣創造雙贏這才是我們真正未來可以來努力的一個方向對,所以說我們幫助國內把這些把國人的錢留在台灣那海外投資最高可達運用資金的45%所以就是說主委按照你剛剛的說法這45%會下修"},{"start":7993.357,"end":8017.909,"text":"這45%現在因為其實保險業資金的45%是動他每年會隨著他業績增加而增加所以比如說我們假設保險公司每年大概多一兩兆的新錢進來實際上這部分我們就可以多多鼓勵他投資台灣對但是他已經配置在海外的這些的這些那個投資如果貿然的去做這些處理的話其實會產生很大的那個負向的作用所以我們要必須要謹慎"},{"start":8018.689,"end":8039.747,"text":"好,所以調降保險業資金,國外的投資總額調降,然後呢,讓資金回到台灣投資,建設台灣,帶動科技產業的升級,創造更多的就業機會,然後提升員工的薪資等等,這是我們最重要的目標啦。就是說提升國內是我們的目標,但是我們的方法要用一個比較適合的方法。"},{"start":8042.833,"end":8052.395,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝主委。謝謝委員。好,那我想請我們央行我們的總裁。請央行嚴副總裁。"},{"start":8063.561,"end":8076.535,"text":"央行日前為了打炒房所以調升存款準備率收收銀行1200億的資金那你認為調高這個存款準備率是實質而強力有力的緊縮措施是這樣子嗎"},{"start":8078.581,"end":8106.652,"text":"因為我們只有調生鷹馬他其實回收資金1200億那每一個銀行分攤下來的話有的大銀行大概二三十億這樣子那基本上我們是希望透過這樣子來讓銀行的資金稍微緊縮一下特別在對房地產的放款方面對那這樣子對銀行的一個放貸資金造成一個抑制的效果那所以會不會間接也造成了對物價的波動"},{"start":8107.92,"end":8112.571,"text":"我個人認為沒有那麼直接看不出來有直接的影響"},{"start":8113.806,"end":8142.132,"text":"因為我們還會透過公開市場操作隨時去調整銀行的那個有四項疑慮啦我想請教有四項疑慮第一個就是說貸款利率上升這會增加他們的成本那銀行也可能會提高貸款的利率這部分那第二個就是這個儲蓄利率的調整這個也會實質影響到這些收益那也會反映為了要反映他的成本增加所以去調整這個利率那流動性"},{"start":8143.132,"end":8143.312,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":8174.687,"end":8176.028,"text":"王宏威、王委員這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞"},{"start":8196.055,"end":8221.445,"text":"就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸"},{"start":8222.76,"end":8247.754,"text":"現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有,對好,那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?"},{"start":8248.394,"end":8262.53,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個第一個如果任何一個法人或治安人他要這個取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率不同的要求"},{"start":8263.331,"end":8291.606,"text":"那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為"},{"start":8292.386,"end":8317.588,"text":"他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?"},{"start":8319.409,"end":8344.86,"text":"如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東適格性的審核"},{"start":8346.481,"end":8365.923,"text":"二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就…我們要看到…站在主管間,我會看到你正式的申請文件好"},{"start":8366.664,"end":8381.181,"text":"因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息喔那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大家就說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係"},{"start":8386.627,"end":8403.96,"text":"所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料"},{"start":8404.62,"end":8422.728,"text":"那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東四個姓裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源"},{"start":8424.603,"end":8424.803,"text":"新光晶合併問題"},{"start":8442.128,"end":8458.924,"text":"在這個主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見這個金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的"},{"start":8459.344,"end":8480.254,"text":"就是您提到的不管是競爭力、法律規範、市場穩定我覺得也都非常合理但是小股東的權益我認為是非常非常重要的因為在合併的過程裡面它可能是用恰恰特定人或者它有一些種種的因素當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素因為說實在"},{"start":8482.595,"end":8500.225,"text":"現在臺新金的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過"},{"start":8501.346,"end":8520.909,"text":"其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見"},{"start":8522.01,"end":8544.406,"text":"這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想還是回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯另外那個主委是"},{"start":8546.168,"end":8561.144,"text":"最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了"},{"start":8562.705,"end":8562.965,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8588.826,"end":8588.886,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":8604.66,"end":8619.822,"text":"所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦"},{"start":8620.202,"end":8643.128,"text":"你在谷底,你的進步空間就會比較大一點。如果你在巔峰的話,你就隨時在擔心你會不會再下滑。那在這裡面特別提到,我們來看,就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併。那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到,在20年前本國銀行49家,受險公司28家。"},{"start":8644.628,"end":8646.23,"text":"但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的"},{"start":8659.73,"end":8688.105,"text":"他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧"},{"start":8690.126,"end":8703.021,"text":"金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員"},{"start":8704.182,"end":8730.132,"text":"指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是他可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型這點的話確實改變了台灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是"},{"start":8730.532,"end":8744.119,"text":"陳副官委員講20年過去了那金管會不會影響下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好 非常好另外看到這個受險其實我們今天主要討論到我們的受險資金你也可以看到這20年來我們受險業的資產的規模確實增加非常非常多"},{"start":8752.063,"end":8756.564,"text":"算一算已經達到就是說20跟20年前比我們的資金規模增加了6.5倍所以這裡就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設但這一點老師說了我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的"},{"start":8782.151,"end":8800.415,"text":"這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來比如講我們講說社會住宅"},{"start":8807.117,"end":8816.944,"text":"社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券"},{"start":8822.748,"end":8822.768,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":8846.021,"end":8866.402,"text":"AI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭"},{"start":8867.944,"end":8868.064,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8885.595,"end":8900.14,"text":"根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這八千八百億我們必須說不要八千我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入"},{"start":8901.34,"end":8920.616,"text":"那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點"},{"start":8929.483,"end":8929.983,"text":"大會報告"},{"start":8952.742,"end":8977.951,"text":"股市彭主委來已經如一個月前所講的今天23000點站穩2萬點因為1萬點的時候我有請大家吃雞排還有喝珍奶為了要兌現我的承諾11點半我們會準備雞排加珍奶請大家享用11點半的時候"},{"start":8980.759,"end":9005.291,"text":"更期盼股市站穩兩萬點未來打拚經濟有亮點繼續往上拚接著我們現在在三位質詢到王世堅委員我們11點半就會休息大概25分鐘然後再結束再繼續質詢下一位質詢請李彥秀李委員"},{"start":9013.067,"end":9013.428,"text":"請彭主委"},{"start":9032.199,"end":9058.785,"text":"我們看看透過今天的質詢會不會有更多的利多出來我先問一個簡短的提問彭主任我今天聽到你回答其他委員包括新光受險RBC達到200%或他的財務改善計畫他是低標的飛過達標那三商美邦的部分他的狀況他要求他補件那補件的時程的時間大概是什麼時候"},{"start":9060.216,"end":9083.416,"text":"現在就是剛才局長有說明過新光的他的改善計畫應該是我們認為可行所以我們大概合理可行就是達標不是就是說他的計畫可行就是說我們會請他按照他的計畫執行就同意他的改善計畫那三商的部分因為他提的改善計畫裡面我們覺得有些需要釐清比如說剛才局長也說了"},{"start":9083.996,"end":9084.136,"text":"主席"},{"start":9101.53,"end":9101.95,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9122.341,"end":9146.576,"text":"差不多那個時間應該會再提來好,那我知道答案了,謝謝接下來我就直接進入我的正題我要請問主委,就是說4月17號當時的黃天母黃主委提出TWICS第三階段在地化跟過渡性的相關的措施主委你已經上任一個多月就是針對於我們目前第三階段包括"},{"start":9147.757,"end":9148.698,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員"},{"start":9167.876,"end":9192.605,"text":"是,跟委員報告一下就是說我在前幾次的包括第一次的業務報告裡面就說到了其實接軌是一個讓台灣受險業走向更好資本結構的一個方法所以我們過去在黃主委時代已經推出了三階段的調適措施三項的調適措施那距離正式的我們"},{"start":9194.306,"end":9195.948,"text":"要接軌時間2026年開始,我們還有一年半左右的時間。我們會在"},{"start":9202.871,"end":9220.095,"text":"再檢視一次我們會有第四階段的調適你會有第四階段?好那具體的方向是什麼?或者做法是什麼?那時間提出來時間點是什麼時候?具體的方向因為現在我們都要經過試算跟協調但是呢我們有一些方向但現在還不成熟我們就要還是不能講那什麼時候會出來?大概的方向是什麼?"},{"start":9224.656,"end":9247.666,"text":"你不要講得很具體但是籠統的你可以說明的也要大家知道嘛大概方向有兩點其實所謂接軌的條式大概分兩個這個方向一個是叫做在地化在地化就是說比如說IAIS的ICS裡面它對於各種的比如說風險的評估它有一個標準法"},{"start":9248.166,"end":9249.287,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。"},{"start":9272.349,"end":9287.421,"text":"這兩條路所以說我們呢現在我們過去所揭示的就是現在是15年但是有些風險我們會重新來思考一下所以這個是跟之前4月18號黃主委宣布你未來會調整在第4階段會調整兩個方向"},{"start":9290.023,"end":9312.922,"text":"前面都會繼續的保留我知道,就這兩點你會增加?就我們還會考慮到讓我們整個時間點要能更適合台灣所以我想在地化,比如說我們的股票係數還有像比如說我們很多對於公建這些係數甚至我們還有很多的這些的係數他們是因為他可能沒辦法考慮到台灣我們自己有自己的資料"},{"start":9313.362,"end":9313.562,"text":"主委主席"},{"start":9332.321,"end":9335.704,"text":"這個我剛剛跟我們報告就是我們下個會期我的預計應該是在11月以前或12月以前應該會公佈這一部分12月底以前會 今年底之前會公佈對 一定會給業者一個衝動的一個調整時間"},{"start":9347.395,"end":9375.28,"text":"因為我今天其實還有另外一個主要的題目局長你可以請回台灣現在有戲盾所謂的科技盾更要有金融盾剛才我提到就是說如果有機會股市佔滿兩萬五千點其實更重要的是主委你一直在提的我們亞洲資產管理中心台灣如果有更好的公建的這個投資標的的話那都是對台灣來說站穩我們的金融盾"},{"start":9375.52,"end":9375.9,"text":"獲得財政委員會財政委員會財政委員會"},{"start":9399.116,"end":9401.077,"text":"主委,你認為台灣的保險業到底缺不缺錢?它資金的缺口到底有多少?"},{"start":9420.65,"end":9445.778,"text":"報告委員這應該有兩個叫資金一個叫資本那我想我們講ICS大家最在意是資本的缺口就是那資金其實我覺得那資本的缺口到底有多少那保險業是不缺資金因為他每年的保費收入因為保險業長期保費那他資本的缺口是多少資本的缺口我剛才講過就是說我們如果要過渡的話我們現在比如說我們現在還是適用舊制的話RBC制度非常明確各家公司都知道"},{"start":9446.158,"end":9461.124,"text":"對,但是現在就是為了要跟IFRS17接軌嘛,所以我們資金的缺口到底有多少?對,所以說現在來看的話,因為現在RBC的這個各家公司應該都非常清楚,我們比如說要滿足200%的這個係數,剛剛委員關切的…要跟IFRS17接軌,2026我們的受險業的資金的這個到底…"},{"start":9470.047,"end":9496.377,"text":"資本缺口到底有多少?這個跟委員報告就是說我們為什麼在今年年底之前要定案我們第四階段的這樣一個這個部分就是要先讓大家確認未來在接軌日的時候你未來長期過渡的目標這件事情現在還沒有定案之前是沒有辦法有個明確的數字再來就是因為各家的條件不同"},{"start":9497.637,"end":9520.858,"text":"主委,因為我後面的題目還沒出來,其實從媒體上的看到,我們無論是為了要跟IFRS7接軌,我們的受險業資金缺口將近有一兆元,這個對他們來說其實非常關鍵重要,對他們來說其實他們也都非常關注這件事情,所以去年我們金管會才會有提出我們發行這個SPV,"},{"start":9523.84,"end":9537.11,"text":"協助我們的業者有多元的投資的管道當然受請業者今年也為了接軌所以他們也發行很多的債券包括國泰人壽、南山、富邦、星光看我這個表格就非常清楚國泰人壽這個發行債券到500億就非常多"},{"start":9542.874,"end":9554.489,"text":"這個部分其實包括新光也發行了80元的債券那特別有關注到SPV就是我們在新加坡發行SPV國泰人壽在6月27號發行了6億元的債券但是超額認購約3倍"},{"start":9559.355,"end":9568.547,"text":"也就是說這幾件這件事情也引起了其他受險業者要要遇事所以為了跟2026接軌包括競選他們財務計劃大家都跑到海外去發行債券這件事情"},{"start":9575.071,"end":9594.931,"text":"主委,我相信你心裡一定有想法,如果這些海外債券可以回到台灣來發行,是不是更好?但是關鍵是,外資到台灣來投資的話,它要扣15%的稅,那這個事情怎麼克服?這就影響到你未來能不能在台灣成立亞洲資產管理中心?"},{"start":9597.192,"end":9619.547,"text":"後續到底怎麼做?主委你的想法是什麼?做法到底是什麼?你有沒有做法?我們希望受險業強化資本方法就來自於比如說現金的資本另外一個就是我們類似次順位的這些債券就是我們可能第一類或第二類的這些對,第二類的資本投資"},{"start":9620.487,"end":9640.76,"text":"對,那當然國內的其實上他有未納是有限比如說他這些購買的對象我們也開放了海外的因為對於我們資本或是對,但是這些海外的他如果可以放在台灣然後我們可以不要扣他稅我們有沒有其他的做法你有沒有想法這個當然就是說"},{"start":9641.801,"end":9669.214,"text":"多元化的籌資我們當然都是反制強化你要人家錢放在台灣外資錢留在台灣最大的就是最具體的方法就是我們現在扣15%的稅我們如何不要扣那麼多或甚至是他可以接受的那這個當然牽涉到跨部會譬如說財政部但是我覺得還有一個方法我可以提供主委就是我們現在有國際保險業務再給我一分鐘我們有國際保險業務如何把"},{"start":9670.054,"end":9683.446,"text":"海外的債券投資把它納入OIU我覺得這是一個思考的模式跟方法主委你同意我的說法嗎我可以來研究這件事情對那這個研究其實就牽涉到莊部長對對不對那部長來部長你請上來請莊部長簡單回答謝謝"},{"start":9690.737,"end":9705.902,"text":"簡單回答因為現在我們國泰到新加坡去發行我們也一樣收不到稅啊但是我們如果把OIU把阿嬤進來的話讓這些海外發行的債券回到台灣發行的話"},{"start":9707.742,"end":9733.616,"text":"我覺得對於整個售銜業錢留在台灣那是個利多我們或許不要收到15%收個2%、3%你還是有增加稅收啊部長你了解我的意思嗎?了解您說的是是是所以要成就主委的亞洲金融資產管理中心我們要有科技盾我們要有系盾我們更要有金融盾"},{"start":9735.846,"end":9758.351,"text":"這個關鍵就在兩位身上如果主委同意我的想法是你的工具之一你可能有工具之二、之三你慢慢來研究這是你的專業但是這個部分就要部長支持部長同意研究朝這樣方向來思考嗎我想這個部分可能我們經過金管會有個具體的一個想法以後我們再來做討論是"},{"start":9760.618,"end":9774.103,"text":"會支持嗎?會支持亞洲資產管理中心嗎?你會不會支持台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心之一?這個當然是支持那相關的配合的配套你就要多支持彭主委謝謝現在請黃珊珊、黃偉文質詢"},{"start":9793.527,"end":9794.87,"text":"好,請財政部部長請莊部長"},{"start":9805.18,"end":9828.888,"text":"委員好是部長早謝主席我想今天昨天有看到一個新聞就是健保署石崇良署長他說要成立臺灣癌症新藥基金永續論壇以前我們是菸捐嘛現在他說酒捐酒捐將成為可能的來源之一我想請問一下部長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":9830.25,"end":9830.45,"text":"主席"},{"start":9860.47,"end":9889.372,"text":"那你支持他的說法嗎?這個部分因為具體的內容其實我們並不還沒有很詳細的了解你跟我一樣我們都是看媒體才知道我覺得一個政策如果有新的狀況必須要很嚴謹第二個賴清德總統他提出的是百億癌症新藥基金所以我看得出來石崇良是在找裁員但找裁員的方式我覺得還要更深重因為這個隨意的說出來會造成社會上大家很多的恐慌"},{"start":9889.992,"end":9911.785,"text":"第二個我們的法規要配合如果要這樣做以前有個菸害防治法現在要先立一個酒害防治法然後你這邊的菸酒稅法可能也要做一些同步的討論跟調整所以部長我還是建議啦行政院這邊希望還是院裡面應該互相討論不應該這樣子衝動的說出來好嗎所以部長你去問一問吧"},{"start":9917.813,"end":9930.707,"text":"你不要跟我一樣要到議場來備問然後才說你不知道好這是第一點第二點我想同步請金管會黃主委黃主委黃主委不好意思"},{"start":9935.262,"end":9959.529,"text":"是兩位部長要請留步喔因為這兩件事情很重要大家都知道我們很關心新清安貸款前陣子卓文泰院長他已經開了相關的檢討會會看到財政部有一些發布那也謝謝部長非常從善如流的把我們所質疑的問題也都納入你的集合接下去的查核方式我想問一下新清安貸款目前"},{"start":9960.77,"end":9968.811,"text":"財政部這一次推出的有一個很奇怪的命令叫做只限一次只限一次的原因是什麼"},{"start":9970.489,"end":9991.502,"text":"我想委員也很清楚新清安貸款它的政策利益良善但是不能作為炒房跟人頭富的一個工具那麼現在我們是希望就是說年輕朋友們這些他可以珍惜這樣一個機會去買他的第一間的房子不知道我只問你只剩一次的原因是什麼是已經有人發生了第二次嗎"},{"start":9993.384,"end":10010.618,"text":"有嗎這個部分我們還繼續在我們還在查也就是說委員其實之前委員也有問過就是說他買了一間用新清安然後賣了又再去用新清安可不可以的問題也有委員曾經提過所以有沒有發生還不知道我們後續會追查來經常會彭主委你認為新清安可以貸款兩次嗎"},{"start":10012.948,"end":10036.382,"text":"買了賣掉賺了幾百萬然後再去買一個無限期的買人頭一直換這是我們原來立法的原因嗎這個我們金管會對於這個所有的貸款是按照我們是做一個整體的這個管理不會特別針對新清安因為新清安是財政部的辦法供股銀行配合所以部長"},{"start":10037.783,"end":10056.65,"text":"這個部分金管會不是你們主管啦但是我覺得這件事情在我們銀行放貸的時候也要做一些查核對 如果它是裡面的內控內基裡面的規範我們就會來處理所以財政部現在查到7月1號有個消息說目前有查到1700多件的人頭戶這個消息屬實嗎"},{"start":10059.394,"end":10059.414,"text":"人頭戶。"},{"start":10081.175,"end":10089.656,"text":"部長我覺得這件事情很重要因為新興家貸款現在已經不管是民間或者是銀行業者或者是"},{"start":10091.062,"end":10091.082,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":10112.137,"end":10113.979,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。"},{"start":10133.519,"end":10141.508,"text":"他只是重新核代、還掉利息、還點錢﹐然後呢﹐有沒有受到任何的影響或處罰。"},{"start":10143.308,"end":10146.509,"text":"現在彭主委,我們是不是一般人去申請房貸,我們會做廉政中心的信用評分?"},{"start":10167.799,"end":10184.817,"text":"應該銀行實務裡面他們的自律規範相關應該是有這個也就是說一般的民眾他去銀行借錢曾經有預期或者是相關的還款有問題他都會被記錄所謂的不良信用對吧如果他在連徵裡面有記錄銀行會自行考量是的"},{"start":10186.178,"end":10205.571,"text":"所以現在部長我想問一下如果有人利用了新清單做了假的比如說他沒有自住他被取消了貸款他會不會列入連徵裡面的信用瑕疵需不需要通報這個部分可能也是財政部必須要把它列入考慮的範圍也就是說在台灣我們"},{"start":10207.032,"end":10230.488,"text":"拿政府補助如果你騙了政府你要付出相對的代價而且要受到一定的處罰否則當了人頭也無所謂就會有現在這麼多的人頭無所謂的情況部長我的意見我了解委員的意思就是說應該讓他在這個信用的連徵上要有所記錄我們要讓國人知道不誠實是很嚴重的"},{"start":10231.836,"end":10259.422,"text":"這個部分我們跟金管會一起來討論來做看怎麼樣的一個加注沒錯,如果政府的補助可以隨意的只是單純的取消他無所謂啊下次再去做別的事啊反正他去銀行還是通行無阻今天做了一個新興安撤銷之後他不能再徵請新興安可是他一樣可以繼續做他其他的人頭我的意思是說我們要讓大家知道不要隨便當別人的人頭"},{"start":10260.362,"end":10262.029,"text":"不要隨便欺騙政府"},{"start":10262.432,"end":10266.235,"text":"第三個部分就是我想問一下今天討論的是保險所以就麻煩部長請回"},{"start":10293.933,"end":10315.792,"text":"臺灣現在我們還是一個地震頻繁的地方然後我們臺灣目前為止在921的時候其實政府立法院火速修法通過保險法把保險業要求他們要承保住宅的地震險是的這個已經20年了你知道現在的我們國內法屋投保地震的"},{"start":10316.172,"end":10317.253,"text":"地震險的比例有多少?"},{"start":10335.673,"end":10354.366,"text":"我每次銀行跟我說你又要續約我看看才幾千塊錢一千多塊其實是相對非常便宜又划算的保險保險業是不是不太想推啊還是因為沒有強迫所以就不推如果只有4成20年主委你覺得你滿意嗎"},{"start":10355.026,"end":10372.363,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":10372.563,"end":10390.645,"text":"在沒有地震發生之前大家都認為沒必要花那一千多塊幹嘛但是一千多塊可以保障你在地震如果真的受災了像這是花蓮的災區當年九二一的南投的災區其實很多房子其實求助我們然後政府花了很多後來用捐款"},{"start":10391.286,"end":10413.529,"text":"候政府的公布預算來補助但是我現在要說的是2018到2022年家庭的貸款增長的速度將近是28%也就是我們家庭會去貸款的速度很快速但是房地的資產增長的速度只有10%也就是說我們借的錢遠比我們房屋增值的金額高所以我認為"},{"start":10415.03,"end":10437.412,"text":"這是一個風險管理然後我們看到地震險其實在相關的我們有一個住宅地震險的保險基金它的說法是這是應該是一個政策性的保險主委我只想知道從四層怎麼繼續往前走怎麼讓國人更願意去投保住宅的地震險把房地產的曝險"},{"start":10438.913,"end":10463.405,"text":"將來不要又變成政府要來給一大堆錢補助而讓保險能夠去share如果今天保險公司有這麼多的資產它其實是我們最好的避險是的 這個我們其實上一直都責成地震基金持續的做教育訓練那另外一個就是我們也要那個鼓勵大家購買除了強制以為就剛才講的政策的地震險一般的商業的那個地震險"},{"start":10464.585,"end":10487.719,"text":"這個比率也是比例所以剛剛我主要說主委我們希望它變成政策性它就是一個要大力推廣如果真的不行我覺得有一部分可能將來你要變成政策性的如果一千多塊像我的房子一千多塊我覺得很有保障很高興那保險公司它的發生機率也不高嘛所以對他們來說風險也沒那麼大所以其實是可以精算的出來"},{"start":10488.88,"end":10499.852,"text":"這個費用對一般民眾來說應該是可以接受我希望短期之內在你任內我們努力達到五成可以嗎五成我覺得至少金管會應該把這個當成自己的KPI往前走好的謝謝"},{"start":10512.83,"end":10536.079,"text":"接著請王世堅、王委員質詢王委員質詢完畢,我們就休息一下謝謝主席,我請經管委員彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":10539.588,"end":10559.121,"text":"王偉好,那個彭主委是我們授選業資產總額已經高達36兆而他們可運用的資金32兆當中現在照這個分配比竟然啊國外投資佔了70%"},{"start":10563.624,"end":10564.105,"text":"高達22兆69.73%當然這不能單獨怪你啦"},{"start":10575.848,"end":10596.982,"text":"可是我們先比較一下國外他們各國那麼在受險業海外投資的部分佔多少我們就舉對岸中國好了中國受險業只有2%欸2%的資金到國外去韓國不到10%8.3日本21.6美國12%獨獨我們台灣"},{"start":10607.049,"end":10629.422,"text":"正需要公共建設正需要大家投入我們台灣對我們國家有信心的時候我們竟然放任最大的資金受險業的資金高達百分之七十二十二兆到國外去做投資"},{"start":10635.236,"end":10660.517,"text":"那這些投資在座各位都是金融專家你們很清楚國外這些投資最大的風險第一個戰爭第二個匯率第三連他們的利率表面上高的地方但是你賺了他利息賠了本金我現在簡單講俄國就好俄國"},{"start":10665.273,"end":10672.538,"text":"我們竟然有8家售險業只有他1380億的債券好啦 這1380億通通曝險怎麼講 俄烏戰爭還在打那 不講說這個戰爭好了 售險業說 我不知道兩年前他們會打仗那你至少要知道 俄國那麼極權的國家"},{"start":10695.919,"end":10721.834,"text":"在世界的版圖裡面他是軸心國欸拜託這些壽險業唯利是圖啊利率高啦就去啦好啦他們不但價值理念跟我們自由世界國家不同好啦現在他有戰爭說翻臉就翻臉我光指現在"},{"start":10723.942,"end":10749.921,"text":"光現在這8家有72張投資型保單現在已經被通知了這只是冰山一小小角11億已經通知說這個到時候要預期啦踩雷啦"},{"start":10751.129,"end":10773.844,"text":"所以要等到解禁才能收尾所以啊光這11億有八千萬的資金要損失掉我們的保護根本拿不到錢所以這些受險業就是這樣啊搬人家滾頭部的井酒塞啦賺他要賺賠保護賠就是這樣這八家不只這11億喔"},{"start":10782.235,"end":10805.652,"text":"這11億是被通知到的因為馬上曝險的後續再1380億那個彭主委我本來一上台想問你說哪8家啦後來我想想其實最主要不是你造成的啦你的前任黃天慕主委他在2020年的時候"},{"start":10807.557,"end":10832.479,"text":"他就說啊受選業海外投資這樣的曝險過高金額比例過高啦他說要降結果他從當年啦說要降這四年來越降越高從四年前上任的時候64%拿到海外去現在高達70%"},{"start":10836.861,"end":10866.153,"text":"當然啦他卸任啦他過去也有一些好的表現啦我就不提他啦但是我希望在你的任內尤其受險是你的專業我希望你拿出你的專業堅持你的風骨我認為受險資金投資海外要大幅降低當然財政部也要配合"},{"start":10867.762,"end":10879.326,"text":"那個部長你就在位子上聽著就好啦財政部應該協調各部會把我們重大的公共建設需要資金的公共建設那引領各部會他們趕快跟財政部來協商財政部你幫他們發行公債嘛不是嗎"},{"start":10892.062,"end":10916.388,"text":"有啦 這麼多年來 蔡總統的任內有我們去推了這些大概財政部代為發行的這些以內公債有七大項啦 都很有意義的公共建設從桃園航空城 我們國道建設到高速鐵路哇 這些都非常好 自償性也很高"},{"start":10917.475,"end":10925.42,"text":"可是這7黨加起來才1500億1500億占不到1%天啊這麼努力之下喔那受險業又說啦說啊我們國內財政市場太小啦我們利率太低啦他們是為了保障"},{"start":10943.234,"end":10943.594,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":10975.336,"end":10986.514,"text":"一、現在的利率算了保單的期望值那它賠什麼賠這10年來、這20年來都以各該當時的利率"},{"start":10987.762,"end":11007.072,"text":"不是嗎?然後他額外還賺什麼?他們還賺國內這麼多不動產的投資這些不動產的增值我相信這些經過詳細的計算後那個主委你下去計算一下我有初步的一些概算我認為這些壽險業齁這些業主心思都不單純很邪惡"},{"start":11015.353,"end":11036.799,"text":"第一點他們對我們建設我們台灣建設我們國家沒有信心啊否則你怎麼會說我們國內證券規模太小我就講我們國家發行的公債就好啊國家發行的公債數十年來超過10兆到現在我們國債的餘額公債喔還有5.8兆5.8兆啊"},{"start":11045.168,"end":11053.511,"text":"那你至少能先拿個10%、32兆拿個10%、3兆2來買買國債總可以吧?欸他不!他那不買!這胡說八道嘛!不但!帶頭!對!建設!我們國家沒信心!第二點!嘿!康沙保護!"},{"start":11069.554,"end":11078.901,"text":"他去國外利率高的地方賺他賺現在賠他我剛剛講的俄國這個現在普選啦普選啦已經普選的部分保護就要賠7千萬光11億就要賠7千萬通通賠保護的然後後續他還有1380億這8家所以我希望你私下告訴我哪8家啦"},{"start":11099.417,"end":11127.234,"text":"我們一起想想辦法看怎麼整他們啦幫保護討回公道嘛可不可以呃我們來看一下資料我們再再來如果可以提供我們就提供給委員參考啊表示安寧有資料嘛不是嗎你剛剛說看一下資料再來決定好啦你的因為你剛上任不久我對你不苛責我是對你不苛責但是抱著期許謝謝謝謝委員我期許"},{"start":11128.68,"end":11128.84,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":11150.287,"end":11165.403,"text":"我有計算啦我希望你下去計算一下就是他們講的這些謬論用什麼方式反駁他他說保障保護的收益所以必須到海外去海外啊利率才高我剛剛跟你講嘛"},{"start":11166.203,"end":11187.056,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11187.611,"end":11215.23,"text":"我們有那麼多的建設需要現在除了大型的公共建設欸!另類的公共建設很多啊!社會住宅、長照、社福機構這些也都有他們的自償性都足以讓受險他們的資金回流去投資不是嗎?但是!他們自落網紋、自落無睹"},{"start":11216.809,"end":11231.407,"text":"就是這些業者這麼惡劣的心境所以那個彭主委我因為時間到了齁我對你有期許啦我對部長也有期許啦雖然比較低齁"},{"start":11233.268,"end":11254.072,"text":"但是那個我希望你針對我講的齁那你做一份簡單二要的一些說明私下你告訴我那怎麼來處理好不好一定要降低這些受險業海外投資佔了70%已經到了非常惡劣離譜的地步啦好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":11261.155,"end":11271.315,"text":"現在請那個央行、央總裁還有彭主委還有我們莊部長到前面這邊來我們現在休息"},{"start":11279.618,"end":11289.405,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11313.624,"end":11318.93,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會．加速建設之推動．加速建設之推動．"},{"start":12816.251,"end":12820.092,"text":"好,我們繼續開會下一位質詢請陳玉珍陳委員謝謝主席我們請這個財政部關務署請莊部長財政部部長先上有關這個離島地區進口商品免徵關稅的這個部分麻煩那個也請關務署彭署長"},{"start":12845.322,"end":12847.212,"text":"委員好中午好"},{"start":12849.212,"end":12877.797,"text":"部長、署長我想請問財政部金馬鵬三線在民國104年曾經提出修正免徵關稅品項及理由會診表本期在上個月也有在這邊質詢關我們財政部離島地區進口商品免徵關稅沒有檢討財政部那時候回答說會後會整理一份資料供本期參考"},{"start":12879.198,"end":12892.376,"text":"理導地區進口商品免徵關稅的項目按照理導條例第10條第二項還有相關的實施辦法原來是89年是公告164項到99年陸續增到320項但是"},{"start":12895.64,"end":12914.167,"text":"看過往的這些進出口這些資料這個歷史雖然適用的辦法有這麼多項320項嘛這樣對吧但是實際上有運用到在110年的話有適用到這個辦法的項目只有一項進口110年到111年只有8項112年15項"},{"start":12920.776,"end":12940.162,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":12940.282,"end":12956.239,"text":"就是沒有實際的加惠到離島的居民那三個離島的縣市政府彭湖、金門、馬祖歷年來也都一直有建議增列一些項目比如103年彭湖縣政府有建議增列1000CC以下的小型電動車104年連江縣政府建議增列水產品"},{"start":12961.064,"end":12985.424,"text":"一百零四年金門縣政府和彭先生建議增列砂糖、花生等10項農產品還有鈾料、風力發電、主機、公共汽車、小客車等19項工業產品一百零五年林江先生也建議增列農產品、漁產品、釣魚用具、寢具、家具等42項但是我們財政部都一直沒有同意一直打回票反而是你們原來列這個300多項只有一項兩項是這麼多年來"},{"start":12991.596,"end":13019.48,"text":"獎項 獎項"},{"start":13019.62,"end":13041.95,"text":"那大家都知道事實上我們至少金門的這個綜合中間計畫裡頭一直要把金門我們中央政府核定的中間計畫裡頭一直是要把金門建成就是建立成為這個離島的這個金門成為一個免稅島那事實上這些相關的產品進到金門地區我們那時候也是說一定有幾個規定"},{"start":13043.651,"end":13071.68,"text":"現於地方使用,現於離島當地使用第二個,強化管理措施部長您知道金門現在帶很多東西到台灣來到台灣島來事實上都是要檢查的嗎?你們知道實際的情形嗎?或者是署長您知道嗎?報告委員你是說從離島到台灣本島那是屬於國內線的話對,但是你知道這個通關事實上還是有通關,你知道要檢查嗎?"},{"start":13073.598,"end":13098.577,"text":"你不知道齁?所以你們才會有產生因為你們不了解實際的情形所以你們才會產生這樣的誤解我覺得我們真的是早時間可以去看金門的地區至少在我想馬祖宇、澎湖應該也是一樣金門地區人到台灣來當然要通關我們還要證件、坐飛機也要相關的檢查警察儘管也要做相關的查驗貨物也是一樣農產品或者你帶的東西這個我跟農委會反映很多次帶什麼雞蛋、帶什麼"},{"start":13102.321,"end":13105.744,"text":"海巡署也要做相關的檢查檢查看有沒有是大陸的東西就是說是不是大陸進來的"},{"start":13122.381,"end":13137.654,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":13137.854,"end":13154.346,"text":"各個離島縣市經馬鵬提出來這些相關的建議事實上都是因為當地的產業有需求,您了解嗎?並不是說進來後就大家會轉到台灣,沒有,因為太難了在離島的海運、空運什麼東西都檢查"},{"start":13155.026,"end":13174.204,"text":"根本就是我一直在講像一國兩制兩個國家並不是說我們今天從這裡到臺北到新北什麼東西都不用檢查我們過來這裡什麼東西都要檢查是有限制的而且如果他覺得這樣不對你退運也不讓你出去啊東西不能出到本島來所以關卡是很嚴格的所以我想請財政部重新評估啊"},{"start":13174.804,"end":13188.79,"text":"在貨物線一地道當地使用然後才可以免關稅然後強化管理措施避免流到台灣還有朝免稅導的方向前進的部分這個稅收影響少在政策方面請你們是不是一個月內幫我們評估出來有關品項"},{"start":13192.318,"end":13204.853,"text":"可以嗎跟委員報告那個品項剛剛就委員的說明雖然目前列了320項可是好像用到的非常少所以覺得有點不符合實際可是也跟委員報告就是說離島地區的營業人那他如果"},{"start":13207.976,"end":13234.246,"text":"進口商品然後在當地銷售然後當地用這個部分沒有問題免關稅但是就是說因為離島到我們本島之間的交通在貨物管制上就是剛剛委員也有提到可能有不同種的原因去做檢查但是因為免關稅的關係那他如果進到本島的話那對他的成本就會比較低嘛會影響到國內的產業你有看過此事這麼一二十年來二三十年來都沒有產品這樣進口"},{"start":13235.586,"end":13235.966,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13253.372,"end":13281.598,"text":"連縣政府建議這些品項你們都不採用事實上是有點因為縣政府建議我們還要跟產業主管機關來會商這個部分是不是我們再跟產業主管機關來做評估以後再跟您提出一個出名報告對 經濟部一個月做評估那為經濟部因為這也有涉及經濟部我看經濟部今天有莊委過來經濟部的話經濟部今天來是這個都比較不相干但是這可能也請經濟部把我們這個意見帶回去一個月也做出評估的這個報告經濟部有人來嗎"},{"start":13282.798,"end":13306.096,"text":"經濟部麻煩你把這個意見帶回去這個主席這邊也請那個然後接著我們談到今天的這個保險資金的這個部分那個金管會財政部當然也聽一下這個怎麼樣讓保險資金我們今天討論這個提案就是說讓保險資金多一點留在我們國內因為那時候不是也要也說要把台灣變成這個資產管理的中心嗎要跟留台灣要錢回到台灣嘛"},{"start":13306.536,"end":13307.056,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。"},{"start":13328.773,"end":13356.102,"text":"雖然金額投注在公共建設的資金金額有上升但是占售險業32.65兆里頭不到1%相當的少事實上我知道經管會也有在開始修這些類似這些相關法令來促進這些產業留下來國發會現在當然也在說官會也是支持這個案子盤點一些可以釋出的產業高速公路、再生能源、海淡廠這些讓這個來投資"},{"start":13358.123,"end":13368.983,"text":"那在這個投資上面本席有幾個疑問第一個彭主任您在接受媒體專訪的時候您說金管會希望先找到實驗型個案走一小步確定看到"},{"start":13370.82,"end":13395.865,"text":"外界看到雲島受險資金流在台灣可行債進入跨部會的這個目前有找到什麼實驗型的個案嗎?我們現在還在積極的去規劃比如說我們現在最近我們已經透過跟保險業者密集的去討論希望確認他們的需求然後有這個需求以後我們再看看尋找什麼案源多久內大概可以找到"},{"start":13396.365,"end":13396.505,"text":"實驗型個案"},{"start":13425.612,"end":13451.64,"text":"就報委員如果是金管會能主政的話我就能夠那你覺得還要哪一個部會財政部嗎國發會經濟部因為大部分的案源都不會是我們所能夠提出來的那我們是因為我們是投資方我們希望說能夠盡快找到案源謝謝沒關係我們給你時間再去思考這個問題也不是到今天為止但是還有一個議題我本席更關心的就是說你看保險資金要留在國內現在都因為不留在國內的原因我想大部分的"},{"start":13452.68,"end":13474.26,"text":"當中的原因是因為﹐也許國內的投資標定﹐它的投報率比較差﹐錢都是﹐資金都是往投報率高的地方去﹐所以事實上我們國內這個創造好的投資環境﹐是你們的責任﹐財政部這邊也是你們的責任﹐那所以除了這點以外﹐本期更關心的是﹐即便保險業資金回來﹐在國內的各個縣市﹐在裡面評估投資以同﹐我們離島地區﹐"},{"start":13475.862,"end":13499.394,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":13499.514,"end":13528.601,"text":"要怎麼樣有更優惠的方向、政策來提出讓民間的更有意到金門投資金管會也是一樣你們說要研議保險業者投資國內的相關獎勵措施一樣到金門去要怎麼樣因為平行來講我們金門就更偏遠了那就更不容易我舉一個例子給你們齁那請你們在一個月內提出相關的保險業赴旅島地區投資之具體優惠措施方案還有金管業也要提出來喔那我舉一個具體例子給你們參考齁一句話而已"},{"start":13530.067,"end":13546.265,"text":"這個醫學衛福部針對像基本因為人少那做醫療就不容易獲利嘛所以大概很多醫療產業都不願意過去但偏遠地也是需要好的醫療所以衛福部有一個方案他用醫學中心資源離島醫療"},{"start":13547.887,"end":13573.527,"text":"他就有一個獎勵計畫接著他有在評分裡齁要求如果比如你是籠總你就要支援你要當醫學中心你就必須到偏鄉離島去支援這是列入考核列入評分然後還有列入相關的這個計畫我想這個給你們參考啦齁在醫療部分齁或者是以後我們離島的公共建設部分我也希望你們在一個月內做出相關的這個政策評估方案具體的好嗎可以嗎"},{"start":13577.598,"end":13580.3,"text":"一個月內給我報告謝謝主席有請金管會主委請彭主委"},{"start":13602.592,"end":13625.28,"text":"委員好主委好首先我要謝謝我們的趙偉主席慶祝台股兩萬三千點的行情要請大家一同的來吃雞排喝珍奶在這邊謝謝趙偉那今天我覺得既不可思啦我們也安排了保險業的資金要投入公共建設"},{"start":13626.88,"end":13646.724,"text":"讓我們國內的整個經濟體質能夠更加的強壯所以在這裡先請教一下主委您提供的金管會資料有提供一個民間參與公共建設的情形裡頭寫到2013到2023這10年間民間參與公共建設的案件數大概有1262件"},{"start":13654.045,"end":13676.628,"text":"投資的金額大約是1兆5000多億那其中保險業投資的37件他的金額是3244億如果以投資金額來看的話這個保險業在民間參與公共建設的佔比大概是22%那請教主委您覺得這個比例是高還是低"},{"start":13678.269,"end":13698.437,"text":"這個是財政部所提供的資料他是從促參的角度來看我們金管會的統計資料是從我們的保險法的分類來區分不過不管是哪一個的數字都顯示保險業投資在公共建設是偏低的"},{"start":13699.357,"end":13723.51,"text":"所以是偏低那我們再看一下他投資的項目內容如果我看到資料他是寫說像物流中心、商業設施四件、文教設施兩件、觀光油氣的設施、運動的設施、交通的建設各一件您看到這一些投資標的項目主委您覺得如何?"},{"start":13724.635,"end":13753.562,"text":"其實這裡面因為按照保險法令它是有公共建設專案運用跟長照那個社福事業大概是這個三大類當這裡面比如說公共建設還有像比如說專案運用那就蠻多元即便公共建設其實它項目也蠻多元的只要吻合我們那個上面規定的要件都是所以它項目會蠻多的可能很多跟我們想像是不太一樣不太一樣那我請教一下主委因為您剛剛有說嘛"},{"start":13754.974,"end":13759.319,"text":"主要障礙的話,我有上次有提到假設我們用比較淺顯來提的話,第一個就是他需要有標的"},{"start":13772.395,"end":13774.057,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會．加速建設之推動．加速建設之推動．"},{"start":13792.419,"end":13821.569,"text":"就讓保險業所能選擇的那個項目就比較少這是我們的比較大的困難因為我也看到金管會就是您剛剛所提的那幾個條件就是適合保險業投資的六個條件您剛剛都自己說出來了那總而言之因為這個資金是來自於人民民間所以呢需要穩定長期合理的報酬是它一個很重要的條件那您覺得合理的報酬率大概要多少"},{"start":13821.909,"end":13822.149,"text":"主席"},{"start":13842.135,"end":13842.936,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":13870.228,"end":13884.655,"text":"比如說我們也有去觀察國外的一些例子比如說我們有看到國外他們把他們的電廠電廠他會跟比如說民眾收電費他可以把比如說未來幾年的收入先把它做個證券化"},{"start":13885.876,"end":13886.976,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會．加速建設之推動．加速建設之推動．"},{"start":13913.166,"end":13913.186,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":13924.79,"end":13924.95,"text":"長照安養激工"},{"start":13948.51,"end":13977.669,"text":"因為你知道我們偏鄉目前政府長照做得多好多好像我們的部落文化健康站做得很好很好也有效成功的去縮短原住民跟全體國人的平均餘命差距但是做得最不好的就是沒有安養機構所以我很在意這一塊那我想要請教您就是目前保險業投入長照的話它的一個法規上有沒有什麼障礙"},{"start":13978.71,"end":14000.539,"text":"那你們有沒有跟衛福部討論過這個問題我們的長照的部分其實按照我們剛才講保險法146條之四裡面它其實上就已經有規範可以做這些事情只是說因為長照事業在其他部會裡面也是他們等於說算是管理的一個事業它有它一定的要求比如說"},{"start":14001.559,"end":14024.338,"text":"我們保險業想投資的住宿式的長照機構而言因為這部分是長照法人法裡面還是長照機構的那法規裡面有規定一些限制比如他對董事的這個席次的上限只有三分之一我們保險這邊可以同意到三分之二再來他的那個盈餘分配的時候他必須先扣除比如10%或20%"},{"start":14025.979,"end":14026.079,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":14042.515,"end":14062.763,"text":"現在進入到我們這個金管會主委這個職務那你也是主導政策法規那請問剛才我問的這個問題那您會不會去著手來排除這些法規上的障礙也能夠積極地跟做一個跨部會的協商去成就這些問題"},{"start":14064.624,"end":14079.411,"text":"這當然是我們努力的方向比如說其實我們保險法這邊假設我們要突破這個障礙其實有時候要發揮一點創意比如說我們保險法146-6可以做保險相關事業的投資那假設有一個類似的長照服務公司"},{"start":14080.211,"end":14096.888,"text":"那他可以提供我們很多長照機構一些長照的服務的話保險公司在投資這種公司也是間接的可以做到這些事情說不定這個我們可以發揮一些創意再來跟各個部會來溝通說不定我們可以化解彼此的法規障礙"},{"start":14098.03,"end":14110.545,"text":"主委就是我希望您可以朝這個方向多去引益啦就是除了去放寬投資比以外我覺得有更多的一些精進的措施、做法希望你可以朝這個地方邁進因為我自己是認為說"},{"start":14115.571,"end":14143.926,"text":"當大家去提到我們要去看醫療的看長照機構的或者是去做自來水的普及其實都有一個問題同樣的問題都是集中於都會啦我們比較希望說他能夠去照顧到我們偏鄉的需求那到底怎麼樣去引進資金願意在合理的報酬之下願意來參與這樣的投資我覺得這是金管會財政部很重要的一個任務並且我個人是覺得啦"},{"start":14144.266,"end":14158.786,"text":"就是隨著國內這個固定資本形成毛額年增率逐漸的成長其實引導資金回台對我來講它不是最急迫的需求我覺得比較重要的是更細膩的政策規劃"},{"start":14159.667,"end":14159.827,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14180.666,"end":14201.282,"text":"如果說是約6千億如資料上所寫的僅佔可運用資金33兆的1.86%那顯然仍有大量的保險業資金可以嘗試導入到臺灣的公共建設所以我在這邊就是特別向我們偏鄉很多財聘校、大學也在關"},{"start":14202.583,"end":14202.683,"text":"議員會主席"},{"start":14221.135,"end":14228.339,"text":"金管會財政部就是進一步的幫我們歸納研擬適當的指標作為保險業資金導入不同公共建設的類型跟模式的一個評估標準那也希望請金管會財政部針對長照、幼托、社宅這些公共建設研議怎麼加強引入保險業資金那我也希望說我剛剛關心的這個住宿型的安養的機構可不可以去責定一個偏鄉先去試辦一個沙盒計畫來做做看"},{"start":14250.47,"end":14251.811,"text":"主委,您的意見如何?"},{"start":14290.638,"end":14312.219,"text":"下一位我們有請羅明才召委主席、二人出列席、官員大家好主席可不可以請彭主委好,請彭主委那其他相關的國發會還有經濟部、交通部麻煩一同"},{"start":14316.141,"end":14343.835,"text":"主委你好,自從你上來擔任金管會主委我覺得這個位置非常的重要所以本席大概要送給你兩個禮物第一個禮物其實大家事情越變越明照理說我是在野黨我來提這個最開心的是賴清德賴總統"},{"start":14346.325,"end":14374.972,"text":"你想想看為什麼新加坡為什麼杜拜平均的薪資啊年輕人啊可以到台幣大概10萬甚至來更多因為新加坡匯集了全世界很多的投資的資金錢潮滾滾當然接下來接下來就是領的薪水也跟著水賬傳高啊"},{"start":14376.034,"end":14392.698,"text":"這個很簡單的道理嘛所以你們講話要小心啊搞不好賴總統一直在注意保險法164條之事這個如果過的話台灣股市馬上有機會上看3萬點今年年底11月5號美國總統的選舉答案就要揭曉了現在目前川普"},{"start":14403.683,"end":14431.248,"text":"大概有百分之六、七的以上的支持度你要調整一下思維哦很多的報導講川普當選他一定是生意人啊他把經濟搞得沸沸揚揚所以當美國的資本市場繼續再漲兩萬點以上的時候你想想看台灣做好準備了嗎所以這是本席啊要送你的"},{"start":14432.25,"end":14459.973,"text":"第一個禮物啊你上台第一個禮物啊就今天要討論這個聰明的政治人物啊不要站在錯的位置思考事情今天這個條例啊如果是站在全民年輕的立場大家是舉手贊成的唷唯一反對的是誰各位啊王世堅、王委員剛講得很清楚啊反對的就是保險業者"},{"start":14461.564,"end":14490.629,"text":"因為利益沒有啊錢到海外天高皇帝遠大家管不到但是全民希望的是錢回來投資台灣跟留台灣啊第二個問題啊就當然沒有投資的標的20年來當初這些資金如果沒有出去台積電外資的持股就不會超過75%以上反而是另外一個角度來看"},{"start":14491.909,"end":14516.314,"text":"每一家保險公司可能啊他們手上是滿手的台積電今天AI的時代來臨NVIDIA揮打的黃恩勛董事長他也是台灣人啊連他都想要回到台灣要跟流台灣要把總部放在台灣的時候"},{"start":14518.047,"end":14542.793,"text":"其他的授權業其他的往外跑的這些企業到底心裡在想什麼好好做嘛把台灣做好做大做強讓大家豐衣足食留在台灣不是很好嗎把台灣變成下一個新加坡嘛把台灣變成下一個瑞士嘛那不是一個很好的場景嗎"},{"start":14544.008,"end":14567.177,"text":"所以這是第一個所以我請教你你的看法怎麼樣因為早做晚做起碼都要做啦但是有人講說一次進來9兆立法院有什麼不能協商的主委你講兩句話我也會同意你啊不要調降一半調降個10%吧調降10%的話回來是多少錢調降10%的話4.5兆"},{"start":14574.206,"end":14601.4,"text":"大概一趴就是大概4千多億再來主委你如果講一句話不要一次進來啊你分批啊慢慢進來啊你分10年我會不同意嗎我的目的不是叫他一次9兆都回來啊我目的是站在台灣年輕人的立場啊我要幫年輕人加薪啊如果9兆回來年輕人的薪水沒有往上漲的話"},{"start":14603.12,"end":14614.794,"text":"那我的薪水全部捐出來我全部捐出來我跟你講我講這個方法也不是第一天第一天我不會講這些事問題我在立法院已經30年了"},{"start":14617.045,"end":14640.03,"text":"我都知道什麼原因,大概戲名卡卡顧,就是外人就知道那個事情,知道那內容,重點是在哪裡了。所以我也希望主委,你身負重任,那你也可以從善如流。過去沒有做的,我們期盼金管會,不是只有管理,而是要"},{"start":14640.818,"end":14652.607,"text":"堅負發展的一個重責大任所以我們希望你提出來的一些方向包括你這重大公共建設所以也麻煩你聽一下請交通部交通部國外的例子可以投資當作標的工建大概有什麼高速公路可不可以機場可不可以"},{"start":14667.264,"end":14681.759,"text":"你們手上大概有什麼案我們今天提這個案其實就是一個催化劑啦你們20年來通通都不做那你們做點事啊來請問你說有什麼項目可以提出來讓保險業者投資的"},{"start":14683.906,"end":14705.511,"text":"我們交通部那個復產、民間餐飲的案件大概近5年來總共有3600多億平均每年簽約的案件有700多億那我們並沒有去排除特別去排除說投資的對象是誰所以有什麼東西可以提出來大一點的大一點的就是那個剛剛講的"},{"start":14708.953,"end":14729.783,"text":"就是我們部署機關包括高工局、鐵道那些他們如果有土地或是工程他想要促進民間參與我們都會鼓勵他們提出來那我們每年會統一的案件辦理遭上大會向對外遭上那請問一下整個環島打通的高鐵有沒有可能?"},{"start":14734.333,"end":14756.861,"text":"如果說評估完可以那個效益夠應該也是不可能的。效益一定夠啊。你要為台灣未來的10年20年來想嘛。我們現在做事是要為以後的子孫來想一些未來的去路嘛。比如說,如果兩岸和平,"},{"start":14758.464,"end":14785.974,"text":"大陸還有全世界觀光客來臺灣請問他需不需要一條快速的環島高鐵需不需要這個超乎我能夠回答的範圍好啦那個很多限制限制了你的思考跟回答但是大家心裡都知道你要講的答案"},{"start":14787.16,"end":14812.635,"text":"我們希望你多找一些好案子然後多評估一下提供給其他各部會來做參考謝謝另外請國家發展委員會請問你們準備好了嗎?如果這些資金陸陸續續的回來你們有沒有什麼好的案子可以提出?"},{"start":14813.593,"end":14835.838,"text":"我們正在協同相關部會在評估適合促參的案源特別是要符合那個受險業他們要求的長期穩健的報酬比如說出戶盤點可能有一些比較具有這個穩定收益的像是會展中心、污水下水場或者具有公益性質的像是文化場館這些我們會優先來推動"},{"start":14837.776,"end":14858.795,"text":"那他的收益有沒有辦法,OK?就是還在評估中大於3.875有沒有可能?就是後續還需要一些評估,是有齁?要再評估,這樣好,再評估一下好,那個交通部我再請教一下就是目前台灣的高速公路他都有收費他算一算,你頭炮利率是多少?"},{"start":14863.441,"end":14885.019,"text":"這個數字我目前沒有因為我不是監理他們這個國道的AOC因為交通部是你們管的啊你們應該要準備好沒關係請你盤點一下交通部所管的到的可以提出超過投報大概是3.8以上的好不好"},{"start":14886.36,"end":14911.835,"text":"交通部整理一下。你把資料拿給主委,拿給財政部長。好,謝謝。那接著還是請主委。是,謝謝。黃主委,我很認同你講的,讓台灣成為亞太的資產管理中心,那這裡面牽涉到很多人才要回流的問題,也請部長可以思考一下。"},{"start":14913.406,"end":14941.952,"text":"關於資金來關於人才來課稅的問題看能不能鬆綁所以我們有一些地方課稅課太重了希望這個部分部長也可以跟主委好好聊一聊我們大家共同努力其實就是愛台灣要把台灣做強做大好不好報告委員剛剛提到就是有關那個"},{"start":14943.414,"end":14968.327,"text":"希望保險業加強投資財產我想大家都應該會支持那我們當然首先要解決案源的問題再去說這個剛剛委員提到那個修法我們希望有一個更明確的做法否則以現在來看的話大家就會有這個疑慮立刻會有這些那個資金的移動影響到我們的資本市場以及受險業財務健全我想這個大家的顧慮應該是在這邊好 謝謝主委大概想說這慢慢來啦沒關係啦"},{"start":14969.528,"end":14997.96,"text":"二十年通通不做就從今天當是一個起點也不見得一次要調降一半分年一次5%、5%分析也是可以接受最後因為時間關係我還有第二個禮物要送給你你猜得到嗎?剛剛已經收過一個禮物了蠻開心的那個是小菜兩三碟再送你一個禮物就是當沖降稅年底就到了"},{"start":14998.496,"end":15006.922,"text":"我們趕快把它提通過讓這個整個資本市場不要有一個不確定的因素一直綁在那個地方你正不正統"},{"start":15007.971,"end":15036.684,"text":"我們的立場已經很明確的表達給財政部我們也有跟財政部做蠻多協商幫我們所有有關我們金管會所主管的職責的考慮全部已經提供給那個財政部因為是財政部在主政我們會配合他們的時程來辦理所以主委你贊成嗎?當沖降稅繼續延長我們是贊成就是還是維持現在的當沖降稅至於說那個期間的部分幾年?就是那個期間部分這是財政部的那個職權我們是尊重你需要提一個啊?"},{"start":15037.264,"end":15037.644,"text":"下一位有請黃國昌委員"},{"start":15074.653,"end":15079.876,"text":"謝謝主席,事事麻煩有請我們金管會的彭主委,並有請中央銀行的嚴副總裁。"},{"start":15090.732,"end":15117.774,"text":"主委好、副總長好時間的關係我們直接切入正題上一次我有請教主委針對P2P的事情前一任的主委他是推指導原則但是金管會針對P2P沒有實際上面的納管跟其他的國家有納管、有監理、有登記的管制差別非常多在完全沒有管制的情況之下導致了現在P2P"},{"start":15118.835,"end":15148.115,"text":"成為詐騙集團,拿來詐騙的工具,那也導致了很多家破人亡的事情。上一次,上一屆的主委在詢答的時候承認說他們所推的那個自律規範根本沒有法律效力,違反了這個自律規範不會有任何法律效果,甚至也沒有辦法作為民法上面請求權的基礎。"},{"start":15149.135,"end":15177.224,"text":"那針對這樣一個完全沒有法律效力的自律規範我上一次請教主委主委說會回去想一想現在時間到了你目前的規劃如何是上次委員有提到就是有提到問我說蓄芯科技比如這家公司的案子知不知道我們回去也好好去跟我們局裡面討論再來我們也有關注到接下來就很多的他們的帳戶被停掉了"},{"start":15178.104,"end":15200.914,"text":"這件事情我們有去好好去關注我們有看到剛剛那個個案是因為它在兩個不同的地檢署之間有不同的如果主委不好意思我先打斷一下不好意思就是說個案的部分歸個案的部分我現在在請教您的是您管制的立場是要銷歸朝誰你還是沒有打算要管嗎還是用自律的方式嗎因為我剛剛已經提示你了"},{"start":15201.674,"end":15212.467,"text":"對那個自立的規範是毫無法律效果違反了也不會有任何法律效力那對於前面的主委他所採取這樣的政策您還是採取一樣的立場嗎這是我的問題"},{"start":15215.706,"end":15242.958,"text":"這一部分其實行政院有指定金管會為這個統籌的對P2P的統籌機關所以比如說最近的話我們也是希望積極的輔導他們兩個那個工會能夠成立工會我們等一下再討論我現在問題還是一樣啦之前中央銀行整理出來了其他各個國家P2P他們管制的態度有的要登記有的要執照但不管怎麼樣"},{"start":15244.755,"end":15267.576,"text":"都會有一定程度的管制但在台灣我們現在針對P2P是完全沒有在管用一個毫無法律效力的自律規範到底要做什麼所以我才說您作為新任的主委我上次第一次在質詢您的時候請教您你需要時間位給你時間你現在的立場有改變嗎?你還是打算要放任P2P?就這樣下去嗎?"},{"start":15270.374,"end":15279.72,"text":"應該我我後來瞭解應該是他應該是要分階段就像我們在對那個VASP的管理也一樣是分階段按照他發展的你現在打算分幾個階段"},{"start":15280.929,"end":15303.508,"text":"現在比如說現在是用自律規範還有透過銀行之間的這樣的往來的方式不是啊我們就打開天窗說亮話嘛就違反了自律規範會有什麼法律效果就沒有啊當然自律規範不是我們的行政處分也不是這樣確實是這樣對啊那現在大家都在關心這件事情啊還要等到下一次有更多人受害的時候金管會才要痛定思痛嗎"},{"start":15305.171,"end":15331.266,"text":"對,所以這部分的話我們也在思考一下就剛才委員有你會需要思考多久我們就是還要還要因為這畢竟是過去在金管會在整個在做管理的時候確實我們在過去對機構管理跟行為管理在這兩塊方面我們必須要先釐清這部分當然我們現在是可能會優先管理是行為管理就是未來像比如說消費者保護的部分我們會先你要做行為管理也沒有問題啊"},{"start":15331.966,"end":15351.121,"text":"他問題是你行為管理的作用規範在哪裡就絕對不是這個自律規範嘛他沒有法律效力嘛這個我們已經有共識了嘛你訂的這個自律規範根本沒有法律效力然後剛剛你所講的P2P業者的商業同位公會從去年就說要設喔設到今年成立了嗎"},{"start":15351.701,"end":15353.483,"text":"當P2P出現了這麼大的問題這麼多人受害所有的人在問政府的態度是什麼"},{"start":15371.365,"end":15396.317,"text":"我們的政府是沒有態度只有一個沒有法律效力的自律規範推說要給業者去自律要成立同業工會結果這句話講了一年多到現在同業工會還沒有成立確實我們是很積極的在推動這件事情不過這個有它一定內政部的程序在處理這件事情我們也前一陣子還在協調這件事情"},{"start":15397.065,"end":15411.85,"text":"所以我這樣講好了啦我覺得站在監督的立場善盡我們的原則該說的都說了該做的都做了那監管會如果繼續採取這樣子立場的話我覺得非常的危險"},{"start":15413.05,"end":15432.775,"text":"非常非常的危險下一次炸彈什麼時候炸多少人受害最重要的是不僅僅是誰要負責被害人怎麼辦我希望諸位您再回去好好想一想這樣下去對嗎這樣算是一個負責任的金管會嗎"},{"start":15434.213,"end":15453.19,"text":"這部分我們會委員的指示確實我們一直都非常放在心上但是我們就想說我切入第二個主題上次我有請教你說針對我們現在整個房價飆漲跟背後市場的資金有密切的關係"},{"start":15454.531,"end":15470.143,"text":"之前央行就警告不動產貸款佔比35.8%已經太高了這是在2020年的時候央行的報告所提出來的他說這樣子會導致房價偷脫住來非常的危險必須有"},{"start":15471.664,"end":15488.127,"text":"必須要處理這是2020年央行所提出來的警告上次我們在詢答的時候你也認同嘛銀行的資金不可以拿來炒房因為35%點多央行在2020年說已經比例太高了嘛"},{"start":15489.348,"end":15501.618,"text":"結果現在不動場販款的比例到今年5月已經到37.13了比央函說太高還要高它實際上面所造成的效果"},{"start":15504.841,"end":15527.27,"text":"六都的房價大幅上揚Base Line是2016年這個是我取得的Data我自己計算出來的應該是不會有錯那現實上面我上次請教你這個問題認為說銀行法72條之二的後門要怎麼處理那你也跟我說針對這一件事情你們會去跟央行來做一個開會做一個協調這個開會跟協調的會發生了嗎?"},{"start":15533.74,"end":15562.94,"text":"就在委員詢問的第二天我就親自去這個這個這個拜訪總裁我們對這個問題呢就做了深入的討論有什麼結論那總裁跟我的討論就是說因為央行的職責是在做穩定金融他希望我們就是說希望我們針對72之2條的後面的段數部分能夠做做一些更明確的界定或一些檢討或是一些提議央行總裁做了這樣的建議金管會接下來做了什麼"},{"start":15563.44,"end":15587.747,"text":"我們接下來回來就請銀行局呢就檢視一下72條之二的部分大家對這個部分因為前面的部分我們是有30%的限制那後面一些但書比如說包括一些廠房啦包括一些比如說我上次就有跟您講過嘛就是因為你們後門開的太大了所以搞到本來法定是30嘛現在已經到37.13了嘛30喔現在到37.13了"},{"start":15592.068,"end":15612.816,"text":"那金管會所需要時間去檢討這個後門要不要做更明確的界定這個是央行總裁給的建議嗎主席站起來了我必須要尊重主席你們還需要多少時間可以把這個檢討做出來我們現在正在正在檢討中那其實需要多久問一下局長這邊"},{"start":15614.653,"end":15637.462,"text":"他會在一個月一個月之內把你們最後檢討的結果怎麼評估的最後結論是什麼72條之二透過行政命令所開的後門所開的後門要不要重新的去做處理這件事情一個月之內提書面報告給所有的委員可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":15646.38,"end":15648.441,"text":"接著請林楚英、林委員謝謝主席主席有請金管會彭主委、保險局施局長、財政部莊部長還有國庫署的陳署長"},{"start":15669.796,"end":15695.678,"text":"陳署長那我先從金管會開始好了主委是這樣我想上個月中國公布了這個反台獨的意見法規我不知道您這裡是不是有了解因為他的這個所謂長臂管轄的部分大家比較專注在的是有關於最高可以判處死刑但是事實上他在實施的時候如果你違反第二條跟第七條是可以並處沒收財產"},{"start":15698.22,"end":15726.926,"text":"本席特別了解到的是我們知道我們的金融三頁當中投資中國的部分當然負險逐年在下降但是根據我的統計跟了解目前有五家人壽跟兩家產險分別是國泰人壽、台灣人壽、星光人壽、凱基人壽、富邦人壽以及國泰、世華產險跟富邦產險他們都有轉投資中國的人壽或產險"},{"start":15728.106,"end":15733.649,"text":"他的比例高則超到達50%少的也有12%當中國可以針對他所祭出的台獨新法規包括你說什麼獨立宣傳什麼策劃什麼台獨啊然後加入國際組織等等我強調喔加入國際組織喔"},{"start":15750.98,"end":15774.162,"text":"這就違反了他們對於台獨的界定這些中國投資都是屬於台灣企業的資金如果他要的話他說了算他可以沒收這些財產所以我想請問的是主委現在面對受險業投資中國的相關的風險評估有沒有調整"},{"start":15775.247,"end":15803.355,"text":"現在就是我們也最近剛剛收到這樣的一個訊息跟也正在密集的研討我們就委員您的資訊非常及時我們現在才剛剛完成一個內部討論我們正想要說怎麼樣來因應我想這件事情確實是我們有這麼多的銀行保險公司在大陸還有包括很多的從業的我們的國人所以這部分我們也是會密切關注我們也正在"},{"start":15803.935,"end":15832.587,"text":"所以這個討論完成了嗎?要花多少的時間?是不是可以先回應就是因為因應這個所謂台獨的新意見而且還有懲罰在裡面所以整個風險要更拉高不只是旅遊警戒變成色啦連投資相關的規定包括如果未來還有公司要申請到中國來做資金的投入的時候是不是態度會不一樣?"},{"start":15834.18,"end":15851.653,"text":"這部分我們也是在過去我們在金管會在主管這些兩岸投資的這個時候從來都沒有發生過的事情那這件事情我們是前一陣子會議呢都是由我們副主委參加所以我們最近剛好這一兩天就要討論這件事情我想剛剛委員您的指示我們現在"},{"start":15852.774,"end":15874.25,"text":"我現在可能沒辦法馬上告訴你時程但是我們會密切來注意這件事情好,是不是可以給我一個時間表至少我們知道你們有在討論之外什麼時候因為投資的這樣的事情跟評估的風險也要必須讓台灣的壽險業或者是其他的銀行業知道說我們現在在做這方面還是說你需要再跟包括壽險公會、銀行公會來做討論再完成也沒有關係是"},{"start":15878.912,"end":15897.587,"text":"當然這部分牽涉到說業者以外還有我們其他的對這個更熟悉的部會可以給我們更多的指導所以我們會再來做一個比較詳細的評估因為這部分我們如果說委員覺得我們什麼時候完成我們當然這個是一個狀況我們要必須要趕快主委我明確的來講啦這個台獨的22條出來之後這"},{"start":15903.391,"end":15924.12,"text":"臺灣保險業在中國經營的狀況這樣羅列出來,經營的風險是不是拉高了?這個應該答案是肯定的嗎?所以你才會來做這個相關的指引。這個新的變數啦,新的經營變數,我想說任何一個業者在當地經營都應該要注意,我們身為主管機關當然也是要非常關注這個議題。"},{"start":15925.04,"end":15941.346,"text":"好,我期望你們能夠在一個月以內先跟相關的單位來做徵詢跟諮詢然後把這個包括是不是要針對重新評估跟封控的部分有一個一定的方向出來好不好是,可以,謝謝好,再來我要請的是莊部長"},{"start":15942.765,"end":15966.886,"text":"莊部長我們知道其實公股行庫有包括這幾家他們我就不足以念了我們公股行庫幾乎都有在中國設立子行我們當然知道這38個一頁據點當時是為了服務台商但是現在如果就我前面講的這22條出來之後行員的人身安全我們怎麼保障有沒有行員現在表示說我去那裡我可能怕怕的來"},{"start":15969.493,"end":15987.112,"text":"根委員報告目前來說當然有一些外派到那邊的航員他們主要考量就是生活上的一些適應或方便性的問題倒是我們還沒有跟航庫那邊了解就是在那麼當地的一些已經在當地的航員有沒有表達一些在"},{"start":15988.686,"end":16009.006,"text":"感覺上有一些不同或者是有關於行員的人身安全的部分我也希望國庫署這裡跟財政部要重新做一些人身安全的評估你要知道從7月1號開始他們甚至於是入出鏡可以檢查你的手機如果今天你的手機被發現你有看臉書搞不好這就是一個不適合的"},{"start":16009.426,"end":16029.206,"text":"如果他今天去點選了相關的新聞或者是他本身就是中華民國底下公股財政部的公股行庫會不會涉及人身安全所以相關的人身安全的保障跟討論我希望財政部也能夠做進一步的理解甚至於能夠有進一步的規劃好嗎好我們來做一些關懷的了解"},{"start":16032.449,"end":16046.765,"text":"好最後時間有限我想把這個題目全部的問完我要問的是彭主委主委我們知道金融三業當中有關於對中破險的部分保險受險業事實上已經大幅下降了73%"},{"start":16048.607,"end":16073.974,"text":"那麼因為中國的經濟下行我認為啊,證券或者是期貨基本上他們根本哀鴻遍野剛剛稍早之前我們的羅昭偉還在慶祝我們這個台股上兩萬三吃了雞排吃了珍奶所以我想這個證券期貨業投資中國的獲利也不大大概會有所來遲疑也不會再前進但是銀行業的部分降幅只有37%所以金融業對於中國資產"},{"start":16077.415,"end":16078.015,"text":"二、繼續審查本院委員會．加速建設之推動。"},{"start":16094.523,"end":16121.517,"text":"下降到什麼樣的一個目標值是,報告委員目前的我們的標準是它曝險除以淨值是百分之百但是現在最高點是77%現在降到22%是銀行保險的部分基本上佔它資金可能不到1%那證券呢大概是佔1.68%左右的淨值在過去這麼多年來其實特別是疫情以後我們已經大幅的下降在在中國的"},{"start":16121.997,"end":16144.635,"text":"中國大陸那個曝險金額我想這部分我們金管會在不只是只有單一地區我們對所有地區都會嚴密的監控這樣一個別例因為這個昭偉已經站起來了我只要強調是銀行如果曝險還有一兆確實是可以有下降的空間另外在二屋戰爭的時候我們曾經針對二屋戰爭金管會當時是有要求金融機構落實機構投資人"},{"start":16147.657,"end":16170.172,"text":"禁責、治理、守則以及ESG在這個部分我們都知道中國既然把我們視為敵對勢力對我們真的是連漁船都直接拖走的時候要不要投資這麼多在中國我也請金管會能夠參照二屋戰爭當時的一些投資準則來做思考好不好就是我們會從風險管理的角度來思考這個問題謝謝謝謝謝謝到位謝謝林委員"},{"start":16179.827,"end":16191.71,"text":"接著請紅夢凱、紅夢凱、紅夢凱、紅委員不在請鄭天才、鄭天才、鄭天才、鄭委員不在請鍾嘉斌、鍾委員質詢。"},{"start":16204.727,"end":16216.337,"text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席政務機關所長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有法律處的徐處長以及銀行局的莊局長銀行局莊局長委員好"},{"start":16221.029,"end":16247.418,"text":"主委好,我想在進入今天政題之前呢,我有一個從司法法治委員會帶來的問題你知道洗房法,法治委員會二審,已經委員會審查完略了那其中呢,有一個部分是關於融資性租賃跟虛擬資產的部分是適用洗房法當中的是適用金融機構的規定,對不對?是那是屬於金管會管的嘛是,現在我們把它納入了好,可以,好請問一下,主委你有沒有用過分期付款?"},{"start":16249.219,"end":16276.057,"text":"有用過?沒有沒有?你有沒有用過融資租賃?沒有沒有?但是你知道什麼是分期付款?我介紹很快的介紹給大家有個消費者他想買車但錢不夠車商說你信用很好我幫你辦銀行的貸款那因此呢車商拿了主額的車款之後消費者拿到了車然後呢分期呢把銀行的分期的債務呢就還清了這是一種但另外一種呢融資性租賃呢他怎樣是需要的人他"},{"start":16276.667,"end":16276.787,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16302.796,"end":16314.587,"text":"融資訊的註定是這樣喔?好那你知道目前的融資訊註定的詐騙有一種叫做機車可以借30萬嗎?你聽過一輛機車可以借30萬的嗎?有在媒體上看到這樣的報告你知道怎麼操作嗎?"},{"start":16316.42,"end":16341.409,"text":"請委員說明一下,謝謝這個我花了很多時間跟典當業者、跟業者請教原則上受害者他其實要一筆錢,周轉,可能要30萬他說銀行不會給他,信用不佳但是看報紙、看網路說有人說有機車可以借30萬怎麼借呢?你把你的機車、你的使用權賣給了融資公司融資公司給你相當30萬的錢跟你買了使用權"},{"start":16342.429,"end":16342.569,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16360.27,"end":16360.51,"text":"致詢致詢致詢"},{"start":16388.076,"end":16388.877,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16410.486,"end":16425.947,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":16426.047,"end":16438.271,"text":"我還可以拿到一筆現金我什麼錢都沒有我就可以拿到一輛新車還有他20萬扣掉的手續費給我12萬的現金然後我前六期要按時還我可能還了30萬我的債務本金還了20萬這時候我手頭很緊了"},{"start":16443.08,"end":16464.172,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":16464.472,"end":16490.386,"text":"結果呢一代又過一代越欠越多錢他不是沒有還錢喔等到他一旦還不起事情就裂了主委知道這個融資性借貸的融資性租賃的一個問題了吧那融資性租賃我們來看一下現在是在洗房法裡面歸你們管嘛你們要不要讓他保持交易記錄"},{"start":16492.026,"end":16518.8,"text":"那要會同法務部做什麼事情呢?做一件事情可不可以往下看可不可以要求他應該要錄音錄影介入風險因為往往這樣的詐騙過程當中很大的問題受害者他不曉得他在辦什麼手續沒有看到合約沒有錄音錄影為他本意的表達所以未來金管會可不可以要求這些融資性租賃業者用洗髮法的授權請他要有錄音錄影可以要求嗎?"},{"start":16519.961,"end":16530.16,"text":"這一點的話我們也注意到國際上面對這種類似行業的規範都是從保護消費者的角度這是屬於消費者保護端的這個內容"},{"start":16532.217,"end":16554.769,"text":"我們因為在洗房法裡面他是主要針對洗錢沒有錯啦照說這些是對於融資性業務的日常監理啦但是因為你們只承認他在金融機構是洗房部你們管平常他是屬於經濟部管的公司對不對你們不是主管機關嗎現在目前現況是如何好 那麼現況呢你們就要加強了第二個我們來看洗房法裡面一個授權"},{"start":16555.589,"end":16581.906,"text":"中央目的主管機關、世界主管機關就是指你們你們可能是洗房法的這個融資性租賃的中央目的主管機關指定什麼項目指定我要求你定型化契約往下看因為這些內容會出狀況都是因為契約的內容五花八門、話術技巧如果說真的有人需要沒有錢需要去拿一筆錢拿機車去或者是說他需要用借錢來買車那麼定型化契約內容"},{"start":16582.586,"end":16605.707,"text":"要求業者把這些他所簽署的內容具體的表達出來,之後的爭議他有辦法處理。主委你願意往這個方向去折騰你們銀行局做嗎?我想任何有助於市場維持的我們都願意研究。剛才講定型化契約應該是我們消費者保護法裡面他有一些,一些若納若會有強制的規定。目前榮志信主任他沒有給你定型化契約,沒有一定的格式。"},{"start":16606.067,"end":16629.282,"text":"所以每個業務員他跟你招攬的時候他都是靠他一張嘴拿出很多複雜的文件讓你簽簽完了你發現自己被辦了信那你還不曉得報告委員這部分我想我們既然現在是洗房的這個主政單位那我想這部分相關我們來研究責務龐大好謝謝因為主委主席請我們吃了雞排很快的把今天的主題說了一下很快的30秒就好了來"},{"start":16630.963,"end":16631.143,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16650.471,"end":16666.051,"text":"我這個問題應該回答過很多次了所以我就往下看了好那所以目前如果把投資總額從25%降到25%那表示什麼表示有6.4%的資金要回流台灣6.4%很大我們目前的股市能不能消耗得了往下看"},{"start":16667.212,"end":16683.359,"text":"進來之後會有什麼影響?主委很快的回答6.4兆回來之後台灣會有什麼影響?我想是籌碼假設從個簡單的工序來看那確實會9兆那個我們主席說是9兆不是6.4兆那9兆就更多了是的好那往下看有三個影響我直接說結論第一"},{"start":16685.06,"end":16699.141,"text":"保護跟股東權益授權公司將國外獲利穩定的投資拿回來國內他不投入高風險的股市就投入再次獲利不足這個時候呢他的股票就會受到影響然後他的獲利如果不穩定保護的權益會受到影響第二"},{"start":16700.339,"end":16727.598,"text":"房市會上漲那麼多資金回來投資標的除了股債之外就是房地產房地產價格在上漲影響到其他的人民生活再往下看最後大量的資金回來會影響到匯率匯率如果新台幣他把美金拋掉回來買新台幣持有台灣的匯率會上升本來匯率是央行在主控那如果這樣子久照的外國的相當於久照新台幣的美金換成新台幣您覺得我們的匯率會提高多少"},{"start":16729.272,"end":16751.025,"text":"這剛剛有很多委員也關注過這個問題啊這個很難預估不過一定會產生影響好很好所以結論還是一句話請儘管持續跟其他機關協調釋出可供民間投資報酬合理的公共建設案源尤其是REIT一定要加強的讓REIT可以來協助參與民間的公共民間的投資可以進入到公建的部分好不好好謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":16755.046,"end":16755.186,"text":"三萬點再來"},{"start":16760.953,"end":16785.873,"text":"接著請楊瓊英委員、楊瓊英、楊瓊英、楊委員不在請鄭正前委員、鄭正前、鄭正前、鄭委員不在請陳亭飛、陳亭飛、陳亭飛、陳委員不在請何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳、何委員不在請吳春成委員"},{"start":16799.187,"end":16799.467,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16817.672,"end":16831.784,"text":"我今天要跟兩位首長討論的是臺灣的資產釋放剛才有提到的很多的資金那如何去管理這些資金那以及壯世代應該從壯世代這個龐大的資金如何去處理來就教兩位"},{"start":16839.226,"end":16844.628,"text":"根據這個主計處的這些調查我們2024年的超額儲蓄率就又超過達到了3.8兆連續5年都超過了3兆"},{"start":16853.598,"end":16882.262,"text":"那我不是很清楚啦現在這樣累積下來我們的儲蓄有多少兆那我看到今天的報告裡面也提到我們的壽險累積到今年第一季已經達到了32兆所以看起來民間的百萬級金融金融錢非常的多但是呢這一個"},{"start":16884.292,"end":16908.364,"text":"這麼龐大的儲蓄力但是我們的投資不足會不會造成實水經濟那整個的這個內需市場我們的公共投資不足很多的錢其實都在壯世代的手上壯世代沒有壯世代的產業大家省吃減用錢都藏起來沒有在流通那這個會不會造成年輕人"},{"start":16909.525,"end":16909.785,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":16925.003,"end":16948.964,"text":"市報委員,就是有關您提到壯士在金融,今晚會過去非常重視,我們內部也開過好多次會。剛剛那個委員您提到的,就是有關這個,我們今天討論的保險資金,這是我們所有民眾已經運用完畢的資金,交到保險公司手上,只是過去大部分都放在海外去投資。我們是希望說,能夠加強對台灣的投資,就是,"},{"start":16950.271,"end":16977.168,"text":"這一錢跟我們閒置的壯世代資金有一點點差異它是我們已經是運用的資金只是交到這個機構投資人在保險公司手上那我們是希望它未來能夠有更多國內的投資機會然後讓我們的錢能夠支持國家的建設好 謝謝 謝謝主委然後又從這個中央銀行的這一張表裡面看出來我們從2010年累計到今年的第一季"},{"start":16978.703,"end":17004.102,"text":"禁流出的金額拉到了25兆就是剛才主委所說的因為國內缺乏投資的標的所以錢往外流那這個過去我們一直在談亞太金融中心一個我們台灣的發展的金融這個現在不曉得我們現在新的那個現在有什麼新的做法"},{"start":17004.722,"end":17028.638,"text":"是,跟委員報告一下,很多人提到過去我們的,提過很多台灣要成為各種中心都沒有成功。不過,我舉個簡單的例子,就是我們談AI其實在將近30年前就在談,一直都在談,為什麼最近有爆發,是的成長,因為很多的時機條件,觀念會先行,環境會跟上。就跟委員你提那個壯世代,可能20年前提大家沒有感覺。"},{"start":17029.398,"end":17049.617,"text":"你一直提,提到最後的時候大家就很有感。我想最近台灣所面臨到的情況,比如說以台灣的股市來看,過去台灣的股市在全世界其實沒有那麼重要性,現在已經大概是全世界第9名的股市了。這個在台灣以這樣的規模來講是非常非常不容易,而且讓全世界都看到台灣資產管理的這樣的一個機會。我想是因為時機的關係。"},{"start":17051.278,"end":17077.271,"text":"所以看起來我們有很多的理想都沒辦法實現這個剛才在教文委員會也是在談一個台灣以前電影是聯合國列為第三名的這個產品的優質度跟產出那現在已經排到後面最近辦一個金曲獎都被罵死就是從一個文化大國變成一個文化小國那包括很多的偉大的"},{"start":17078.631,"end":17102.967,"text":"從來大陸現在都往下走不過我們現在務實一點我覺得會整體走向這個的方向是我覺得我們一直在內亂、內鬥很多東西就不務實都在談一些空的、空洞的東西希望大家趕快趕上然後都從壯士帶這裡就是上次我也提到這一個我們企業壯士帶擁有很多的財富那特別是上面這兩個"},{"start":17104.688,"end":17129.803,"text":"經濟部要發展這個長壽經濟嘛大健康產業嘛那這個需要很多的建設這個就是資金要趕快的投入這個未來整個高零是有倒過來金字塔這樣的一個社會要投入公共設施很多不能靠政府嘛那些資金要趕快建立的怎麼去導引嘛那另外金管會財政部這裡怎麼把這麼龐大的被限制的資金能夠活化那這一個齁"},{"start":17131.043,"end":17153.084,"text":"這個我就是要,因為但是呢,現在好像談了很多,一直在談,但是都慢吞吞的,明年就已經進入超高齡社會了,然後這個整個的時間會,我一直提到包括這一些的步驟,其實都太緩慢,因為我們一直把這個高齡化,因為這個是一個社會形態的大翻轉,"},{"start":17154.265,"end":17154.385,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":17178.627,"end":17192.802,"text":"那包括財政部部長這裡有很多的獎勵這個很多需要要有誘因所以最後最後因為時間一直在催是不是可以因為我們這會期快要結束是不是可以在兩個星期之內可以拜託金管會"},{"start":17193.763,"end":17219.449,"text":"可以針對我知道你們列出了很多的金融商品的服務但是我不知道那個時程表你們現在推動的計畫是不是可以再可以回覆讓我準備下一步的會期當中要怎麼推動那另外財政部是不是也可以針對這一些個人資金的引導包括金管會配合的這些措施能夠提供誘因能夠給我一些方向"},{"start":17220.009,"end":17237.296,"text":"事報委員有關金管會部分2025年前提供我們具體時程表沒有問題好謝謝謝謝主委那部長我想財政部部分我們看金管會提出來相關金融商品以後我們再來研議這個相關的做法以及現有的做法我們也可以提供是好的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝部長好謝謝"},{"start":17248.851,"end":17274.123,"text":"接著請林俊憲林俊憲林委員林俊憲林委員不在經濟政經發言委員均已詢答完畢現在進行保險法第146條之四條文修正草案處理預計宣讀時間一分鐘宣讀完畢後協商請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":17280.549,"end":17292.754,"text":"宣讀委員羅明才等17人提案保險法第146條之四條文修正草案經對照現行條文除第二項序文中45%文字修正為25%其餘未修正同現行條文宣讀完畢好,現在協商"},{"start":17323.53,"end":17328.681,"text":"好,那如果現場沒有相關的官員,如果有事可以先離開。"},{"start":17388.268,"end":17389.189,"text":"﹗"},{"start":17466.783,"end":17467.261,"text":"議員。"},{"start":17600.182,"end":17602.707,"text":"好,那我們現在開始協商齁"},{"start":17603.973,"end":17631.029,"text":"那因為這個議題提出獲得社會各界的迴響從一開始的覺得不可行到現在包括主管機關包括各個部會當然覺得如果是投資台灣、耕留台灣、壯大台灣變成是一個好的方向那這因為時間上跟流程怎麼影響"},{"start":17632.57,"end":17651.123,"text":"電動不要那麼大可以慢慢慢慢的往這個方向接軌我們就是再給予多一點的時間也請各部會也想想看有什麼是可以提出的投報率是可以高於3.8甚至再高一點點"},{"start":17653.324,"end":17669.14,"text":"滿足保險業者他們現階段的這個需求所以最後我們也請主委來就今天保險法146條之四的一個方向來說明一下是那個剛剛趙委員提到就是"},{"start":17669.901,"end":17683.348,"text":"保險業是社會資金然後要支持國內建設也是非常大家的共識但是因為過去在整個保險業調整利差的過程當中那個盤根錯節的問題很複雜"},{"start":17685.529,"end":17703.621,"text":"我想現階段在還沒有完成整個大家共識之前我是建議說還是維持原來的那我們繼續的朝向比如說未來增強案源的提供然後呢我們金管會員努力讓保險的錢盡量能夠投資台灣那也謝謝昭偉能夠體諒到整個保險業現在的現況謝謝"},{"start":17710.71,"end":17731.461,"text":"謝謝主委那因為未來的亞太資產管理中心以及臺灣有很多要投資的公建方面藉由今天的這個時點往前跨出去讓各部會也趕快動起來包括今天講的交通部、水利署還有其他的"},{"start":17734.203,"end":17755.603,"text":"國發會很多單位你們就是想想看有什麼可以值得長遠投資因為現在做大概好是好到未來10年20、30年以後住在台灣的所有的年輕人我們也是期許就是資金一步一步回來了以後可以讓"},{"start":17758.005,"end":17775.23,"text":"國內的平均薪資可以一步一步的往上提升新加坡平均就10萬杜拜的薪水大概10萬因為你錢多的時候留在台灣大家一定這個薪資又會漲這個道理很簡單因為"},{"start":17777.29,"end":17778.751,"text":"我再宣布一下"},{"start":17820.443,"end":17840.849,"text":"本次會議做如下決議一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從席鎖定三、委員楊瓊英所提書面質詢"},{"start":17850.441,"end":17866.792,"text":"列入記錄、刊登公報．並請相關部會以書面答覆是保險法第146條之四條文修正草案一案則其繼續審查"},{"start":17871.104,"end":17882.435,"text":"本次會議議程已進行完畢,堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢,一併列入記錄、刊登公報,並請議事人員協助處理。散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}