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兩位一定都有注意到川普公開說"},{"start":35.575,"end":61.807,"text":"歐盟跟日本有八大非關稅的作弊手段我這個用得很重我們平常用的字眼叫做非關稅的貿易障礙嘛對不對他直接講說這是作弊這很顯然也會影響到我們台灣這段時間跟美國高關稅的談判兩位次長都有注意到對不對那剛剛有進一步去討論了裡面可能馬上影響到的就是貨物稅對不對"},{"start":66.121,"end":71.613,"text":"那貨物稅目前我的了解就汽車啊價格一直居高不下"},{"start":72.728,"end":101.381,"text":"很多民眾都抗議了財政部到目前好像都是講說是市場結果可是經濟部是贊成對不對那市長經濟部對於汽車的貨物稅降下來是持贊成的態度嗎這個部分民眾跟業者有一些的反應那至於說如何去進行與時俱進的調整我們會跟財政部一起來檢討這個非常重要你看川普已經明確點名了老蔣最近這一二十年來"},{"start":102.728,"end":122.086,"text":"很多民眾跟立法院都在推動汽車貨物稅是要降的汽車那個價格真的太貴了而且保護的過頭了這次高關稅這個談判可能就是一個契機所以請經濟部你既然往這個方向在走在開會的時候不只建立財政部要往降這個汽車的貨物稅走好不好"},{"start":125.458,"end":152.539,"text":"很多事情彷彿相扣委員這個指導的意見我們在內部評估或是相關的會議的話我們會妥善的來加以納入評估這千年的意義你看已經爭取了一二十年後來都被擋住可能這次就是一個歷史的契機可以把這個汽車的相關稅降下來我們來討論看看台灣的車價為什麼會拚高每次財政部都說它是市場結構公需其實"},{"start":155.322,"end":157.609,"text":"最重要的關節在哪裡最重要的關鍵在哪裡"},{"start":159.629,"end":177.604,"text":"萬萬稅嘛,就稅是出了問題嘛進口稅它基本上就是一個稅負的疊加至少42.5%起跳,我們看看咧它課幾種稅,而且大家知道嗎它是相乘的,一直乘上去第一個,進來要關稅對不對進來要關稅對不對要關稅嘛,進口關稅還要貨物稅,貨物稅現在多少"},{"start":186.131,"end":208.883,"text":"後稅有兩種 一種是小客車2000cc以下25% 2000cc以上30%另外還有營業稅 營業稅因為每個都有繳 營業稅大家不要沒有意見現在大家有意見的 其實重點就是後稅我算給大家聽一下 大家看一下這個公式這樣算下來 用關稅1.175乘以後稅的1.25乘以營業稅的1.05你買不汽車啊"},{"start":214.69,"end":241.708,"text":"本來一百塊的你要付到一百五十四塊就多了三分之一的價格出來這個稅不只太繁複的而且太多了你買進來之後要養這部車你還要牌照稅還要燃料稅還要強制保險全世界沒人像台灣這樣啦利用這個機會好好好好檢討一下我來做個比較各國進口車的這個關稅大家看一下"},{"start":244.383,"end":260.575,"text":"美國 2.5%日本 日本本來這個後稅跟關稅本來是高的喔他慢慢慢慢降 他現在已經是0了新加坡也是0結果呢 我們有一個17.5%的關稅"},{"start":263.8,"end":275.967,"text":"我們從2000年 2002年的時候我們關稅從60%降到30%2010年的時候又降 降到17.5%可是跟全世界比起來我們關稅已經太高了吧 對不對 次長"},{"start":277.239,"end":296.034,"text":"現在更嚴重的是剛剛你剛才說的那個25%到30%的那個營業稅貨物稅那個加起來42.5%耶加上我剛剛講的營業稅你每買一部車進來就多加了三分之一的錢了那現在更嚴重的川普跟你講了這是一個作弊"},{"start":297.54,"end":308.029,"text":"對不對所以利用這個時間點是不是好好去檢討一下可以嗎財政部可以利用這個機會好好去檢討一下把我們剛剛一直在強調的汽車的貨物稅 租賃的調降"},{"start":310.245,"end":327.943,"text":"我們這次會配合那個對等關稅的談判會做一些因應的方案好 我最後做三個訴求因為那個主席已經舉起來了第一個這個是民眾也是包括中華經濟研究院他們的一個建議對貨物稅進行稅務透明跟公平化的這個檢視第二個"},{"start":329.344,"end":351.56,"text":"用公共政策為名這個說客啊應該要有一個實際的數據第三個 要撤除錯誤的這個稅制才能夠真正減輕民眾的負擔其實啦 目前這個車價這麼高說來最大的是誰 就是消費者嘛好不好 包括中華經濟研究院都提醒了我們現在一直要加入這個CPTPP 對不對市長 兩位市長 我們要加入"},{"start":356.633,"end":377.35,"text":"那明明確切就要求要調降我們進口的關稅進口車的關稅嘛對不對結果你說要加入CPTPP結果你那個汽車的關稅又不降你這不是自打嘴巴嗎前後就矛盾啊所以國際的歧視本來就要做還有照顧我們國內的這個消費者請好好趕快去討論好不好好那能不能在一個禮拜內"},{"start":379.706,"end":391.319,"text":"這個應該是財政部的事吧對不對那個經濟部比較沒有意見要講吧還是兩個這樣好不好經濟部跟財政部一個禮拜內都給我一份關於我們的汽車貨物稅有沒有可能逐年調降的一個報告"},{"start":392.899,"end":413.211,"text":"報告委員我們可不可以給我們長一點的時間因為我們現在這個部分有些事情我們還不方便在一個禮拜啦我跟你講為什麼要一個禮拜因為你馬上就要去談判了這個應該是你們的必考題市長聽我講聽我講這應該是去跟美國跟川普談判的必考題他已經講到清楚八大八大作弊裡面的"},{"start":414.211,"end":432.481,"text":"裡面很重要一項就是這個啊你沒有準備你怎麼去談判所以這變成你一個籌碼嘛你把它準備好不只給本席給立法院你們帶去美國的時候也講我們在這個汽車的貨物稅我們要適度的降低啊你不用一次全部都取消啊可是這跟日本一樣啊你適度每一年逐步的把它下降啊"},{"start":433.318,"end":457.533,"text":"因為這個畢竟還在談判的過程很多事情我們現在不適合他當作他的機密所以先不要給他這是你該做的事情吧時間可以了時間已經給你五分鐘了跟他多久主席你認為他應該多久給我這個報告這個要尊重他好不好因為這個要拿去跟美國談判你現在叫他拿出來不好啦真的不好"},{"start":458.315,"end":463.151,"text":"不過你要有準備啦 那是必考題嘛我們如果有結果的時候 我們一定會跟委員報告的"},{"start":465.075,"end":491.751,"text":"沒有錯啦 好啦 那一個月給我報告啦你一個月一定有談判了吧 對不對不好啦 不好啦沒有沒有 先這樣子啦 抱歉抱歉 我要講一下 主席已經主席這麼資深 有重量級已經站起來了 我沒有在講了時間已經拖很久了你第一個 你要跟全國的民眾引諾說你已經開始在檢討 因為這是必考題嘛你不可能 不可能不做研究 不做報告這個原理嘛 對不對那第二個 就是你們談判到一個階段你們要趕快把這個動態給大家看沒問題 我們如果可以對外說明的時候我們一定會對外說明的OK 好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":998,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時32分）請財政部李慶華次長，還有經濟部賴建信次長。"],["主席：請兩位長官。"],["李次長慶華：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：兩位好。兩位一定都有注意到川普公開說歐盟跟日本有八大非關稅的作弊手段，這個詞用得很重。我們平常用的字眼叫做非關稅貿易障礙嘛！而他直接講這是作弊！這很顯然也會影響到臺灣這段時間跟美國的高關稅談判。兩位次長都有注意到，對不對？剛剛也進一步討論了，裡面可能馬上影響到的就是貨物稅，對不對？"],["李次長慶華：應該不是只有貨物稅啦！還有關稅。"],["張委員啓楷：關於貨物稅，以我目前的了解，對於汽車價格一直居高不下，很多民眾都抗議了。財政部到目前為止好像都講這是市場結構，可是經濟部是贊成的，對不對？賴次長，經濟部對於汽車貨物稅降下來是持贊成的態度嗎？"],["賴次長建信：這個部分，民眾跟業者有一些反映。至於如何進行與時俱進的調整，我們會跟財政部一起檢討。"],["張委員啓楷：這個非常重要喔！你看川普已經明確點名了。老實講這一、二十年來，很多民眾跟立法院都在推動汽車貨物稅是要調降的，汽車價格真的太貴了，而且保護得過頭了，這次高關稅談判可能就是一個契機。經濟部既然在往這個方向走，請在開會時建議財政部要往降汽車貨物稅走，好不好？"],["賴次長建信：很多事情環環相扣啦！對於委員指導的意見，我們在內部評估或相關會議上會妥善加以納入。"],["張委員啓楷：這是千年一遇欸！你看已經爭取了一、二十年，後來都被擋住，可能這次就是歷史的契機，可以把汽車相關稅率降下來。","來！我們討論看看，臺灣的車價為什麼會偏高？每次財政部都說是基於市場結構、供需，其實最重要的關鍵在哪裡？萬萬稅嘛！就是稅制出了問題嘛！進口稅基本上就是稅負的疊加，至少42.5%起跳。我們看看它課幾種稅，而且大家知道嗎？稅是相乘的，一直乘上去。第一，進口要關稅對不對？次長。"],["李次長慶華：對，進口關稅。"],["張委員啓楷：除了進口關稅，還要貨物稅。貨物稅率現在是多少？"],["李次長慶華：貨物稅有2種，一種是小客車，2,000cc以下稅率25%，2,000cc以上稅率30%。"],["張委員啓楷：2,000cc以上變成30%嘛！另外還要營業稅，不過因為每個產品都要繳，大家對營業稅比較沒有意見，現在大家比較有意見、最大的其實就是貨物稅。我算給大家聽一下，關稅1.175乘以貨物稅的1.25、再乘以營業稅的1.05，買一部汽車，本來100塊要付到154塊，多了1/3的價格出來，這筆稅不只太繁複而且太多了！買進來之後，為了養這部車還要繳牌照稅、燃料稅、強制保險，全世界沒有人像臺灣這樣的啦！你們利用這個機會好好檢討一下。","我再做個比較，各國進口車的關稅，美國2.5%；日本的貨物稅跟關稅本來也是高的喔！經過慢慢調降，到現在已經是零了；新加坡也是零；結果我們有17.5%的關稅。雖然在2002年的時候關稅從60%降到30%，2010年又降到17.5%，可是跟全世界比起來，我們的關稅已經太高了吧！對不對？次長，現在更嚴重的是你剛剛講的25%到30%營業稅。"],["李次長慶華：是貨物稅。"],["張委員啓楷：貨物稅加起來達到42.5%欸！加上我剛剛講的營業稅，每買一部車進來就多加了1/3的錢。現在更嚴重了，川普跟你講這是作弊，所以是不是利用這個時間點好好檢討一下可以嗎？財政部可以利用這個機會好好檢討一下，把我剛剛一直強調的汽車貨物稅逐年調降。"],["李次長慶華：我們這次會配合對等關稅的談判做一些因應方案。"],["張委員啓楷：好。","我最後做3個訴求。第一，這是民眾、也是中華經濟研究院的建議，對於貨物稅進行稅賦透明跟公平化的檢視；第二，用公共政策為名義的稅課，應該有實際數據支持；第三，要撤除錯誤的稅制，才能真正減輕民眾的負擔。其實目前車價這麼高，受害最大的是誰？就是消費者嘛！包括中華經濟研究院都提醒了，我們現在一直想加入CPTPP，對不對？兩位次長，我們要加入，而CPTPP就明明確確要求我們調降進口車的關稅，你說要加入CPTPP，結果汽車關稅又不降，這不是自打嘴巴嗎？前後矛盾啊！所以依國際的趨勢本來就要做。還有，為了照顧國內消費者，請趕快討論，好不好？"],["主席：好……"],["張委員啓楷：能不能在1個禮拜內……這應該是財政部的事，對不對？經濟部比較沒有意見要講嘛！還是兩個……這樣好不好？經濟部跟財政部1個禮拜內都給我一份關於我國汽車貨物稅有沒有可能逐年調降的報告。"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，可不可以給我們長一點的時間？因為現在這部分有些事情還不方便對外講。"],["主席：改成1個月啦！"],["張委員啓楷：1個禮拜啦！我跟你講為什麼要1個禮拜，因為你馬上就要去談判了，這應該是你們的必考題。"],["李次長慶華：可是這部分因為……"],["張委員啓楷：次長，聽我講，這應該是跟美國、跟川普談判的必考題，因為他已經講那麼清楚，八大作弊裡面很重要的一項就是這個啊！若你沒有準備，怎麼去談判？這可以變成你的籌碼嘛！你把它準備好，不只給本席、給立法院，你們帶去美國的時候也可以講我們的汽車貨物稅要適度降低，你不用一次全部取消啊！就跟日本一樣適度，每一年逐步下降啊！"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，畢竟還在談判的過程，很多事情現在不適合對外說明……"],["主席：當作它們的機密，所以先不要給啦！"],["張委員啓楷：這怎麼會是機密呢？"],["主席：機密啦！"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，這是你該做的事情吧！"],["主席：時間到了好不好？不要再拖了。"],["李次長慶華：暫時不方便提供。"],["主席：時間可以了，已經給你加5分鐘了。"],["張委員啓楷：那要多久？主席，你認為他應該多久給我這個報告？"],["主席：這要尊重他，好不好？因為這要拿去跟美國談判，現在叫他拿出來不好啦！真的不好。"],["張委員啓楷：不過要有準備啦！這是必考題嘛！"],["李次長慶華：如果有結果的時候，我們一定會跟委員報告的。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦！那1個月內給我報告，1個月一定有談判了，對不對？"],["主席：不好啦！不好啦！"],["張委員啓楷：這樣子啦！不好意思，主席這麼資深、重量級都已經站起來了，我不要再講了。"],["主席：時間已經拖很久了。"],["張委員啓楷：第一，你要跟全國民眾允諾已經開始在檢討，因為這是必考題嘛！你不可能不做研究、不做研擬；第二，當你們談判到一個階段，要趕快把這個內容公開給大家看。"],["李次長慶華：沒問題，可以對外說明的時候，我們一定會對外說明的。"],["張委員啓楷：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：基本上跟美國談了之後一定會講，談之前不能講啦！真的不好啦！"],["張委員啓楷：好，那談完以後趕快給我一份報告。不過一定要趕快做啦！這是必考題，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-9","speakers":["賴士葆","黃珊珊","林德福","林思銘","陳玉珍","王世堅","葉元之","廖偉翔","羅廷瑋","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","黃建賓","吳秉叡","郭國文","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","賴惠員","李坤城","顏寬恒","林思銘","羅明才","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」34案：(一) 本院委員葉元之等21人擬具「貨物稅條例刪除部分條文草\n案」案、(二) 本院委員廖先翔等16人擬具「貨物稅條例刪除第八條條文草案」案、(三) 本院台\n灣民眾黨黨團擬具「貨物稅條例第十一條、第十一條之一及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)\n本院委員邱若華等20人擬具「貨物稅條例第十一條條文修正草案」案、 (五) 本院委員魯明哲等\n16人、委員顏寬恒等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員賴士葆等21人、委員邱鎮軍等22人、委員徐\n欣瑩等27人、委員翁曉玲等17人、委員羅明才等16人、委員郭國文等17人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n委員廖偉翔等17人、委員許宇甄等21人、委員黃建賓等16人、委員林思銘等21人、委員萬美玲等\n16人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十一條之一條文修正草案」等15案、(六) 本院委員李坤城等24人\n擬具「貨物稅條例第十一條之一、第十二條之五及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案、(七) 本院\n委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19人、委員林思銘等19人、委員涂權吉等17人、委員陳玉珍等19人、委\n員馬文君等18人、委員王世堅等19人、委員張智倫等25人、委員魯明哲等16人、委員王鴻薇等19\n人、委員楊瓊瓔等20 人、委員邱鎮軍等24 人、委員萬美玲等18 人、委員廖偉翔等17 人分別擬具\n「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等13案、(八) 本院委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「貨物稅條例\n第十二條之三條文修正草案」案；二、審查人民請願案有關「貨物稅條例」7案","agenda_id":"1144001_00007"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}