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在場的委員先進 政府機關首長代表會長 共同夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們農業部的杜次長 經濟部的江次長以及經貿談判辦公室的嚴副總談判代表是 委員好次長好 次長好 先請教江次長像你看這次美國的關稅衝擊"},{"start":37.603,"end":60.104,"text":"對台灣來講我們現在是比較擔心出口賣不到美國還是擔心美國進口很多到台灣來哪一個你會比較我們衝擊比較大我覺得站在經濟部的立場我們當然是非第一點的話當然是希望我們的廠商都可以將他最好的優質產品出口到全世界各地重要的市場那現在是對是不是進口的衝擊影響可能比較大"},{"start":61.069,"end":77.062,"text":"目前為止因為川普是苛徵10%的關稅是對我們的出口的部分但是對於進口的部分現在還是持續觀察中我們請那個嚴副總裁那麼在這樣的一個進出口的變化當中請問對台灣跟美國的農業來講是我們賣給美國的農產品多還是美國賣給我們的農產品多"},{"start":87.545,"end":103.9,"text":"當然是美國賣給我們比較多我們是美國我們進口的美國是第一名對不對但是我們出口跟美國的美國占我們出口市場第一名美國只是我們進口我們是他的第八大他是我們的第一名"},{"start":105.992,"end":129.518,"text":"我們是美國出口對象的第八名但是他是我們出口對象的第一名對但是貿易值上面他是順差的對他是順差的換言之如果我跟劉建國他是我唯一的好朋友我是他排名第八的好朋友你覺得誰比較擔心誰我比較擔心嘛美國是我最大的出口市場我只是美國的第八出口市場農業譬如好來現在換農業部了"},{"start":132.139,"end":149.697,"text":"市委員來 處長 那天喔 來我們看下一頁那天在四月十三日高雄龍街中你沒在嘛 你知道我們的保證不會移動嗎是那天是跟模特兒合作在說嘛這段主席聽過你可以休息我們台灣的模特兒 一半是大紀元 一半是華僧 是不是這樣"},{"start":151.859,"end":174.181,"text":"外鄉的摩托 日本占四成 美國占三成 是不是這樣 沒錯啦好 但是呢 美國的市場裡面 吃摩托吃同桌是不是吃中國的對好 現在中國跟美國的環境 中國的摩托沒辦法賣美國啊現在美國是不是很大量 所以我們要補充說什麼台灣的摩托要趕快去抽美國的市場對不對"},{"start":176.937,"end":186.309,"text":"再去美國的市場但是中國的模特兒模特兒不會去美國 它不會來哪裡不會來日本嘛日本跟中國是連關稅但是我們台灣小日本是六趴的關稅所以我們現在是不是在日本的模特兒市場受到中國的威脅"},{"start":193.999,"end":206.63,"text":"是不是這樣?是所以說一個無約的關稅差別會造成說原來美國的市場我們台灣要趕快去吃但是我們在日本的市場要歡樂中國來吃是不是這樣?是好來我給你們看好來所以另外一方美國是不是出口很多紅豆?是美國出口的紅豆是不是最近一半是在中國?中國現在中國會跟美國買紅豆嗎?所以你看這樣美國的紅豆會下降嗎?"},{"start":223.581,"end":235.227,"text":"有可能的下去美國的黃小玉下去對台灣的容顏什麼衝擊 什麼影響我們台北分的黃小玉都對美國來啊所以我們有好康就對了嘛大家同意就有好康就好現在我們來看世界在吃豬肉 進豬肉 出豬肉出口豬肉的國家是不是這幾個國家後面 美國只有大部分這豬肉要統治的是中國 日本 白色國家 英國有台灣沒有沒有嘛 台灣很小喔 想想看 來"},{"start":253.427,"end":276.732,"text":"台灣齁 現在齁 台灣吃的豬肉一成是進口的六成是我們本土的九成九成啦齁 本土的豬肉99%是供應過來的不夠1%是消外國消兩千噸嘛 消哪裡新加坡 菲律賓有消日本嗎呃 加工的有加工的有齁過去30年間 台灣的豬肉出口是現在的超過100倍是27萬公噸 噸啦 27萬噸"},{"start":283.306,"end":298.235,"text":"現在只剩下兩千塊我給你們來看來所以你要看30年前日本進口的地霸有4成來自台灣台灣出口的地霸有9成是小日本日本對台灣的地霸市場有重要嗎多少有重要但是現在呢"},{"start":299.176,"end":313.363,"text":"現在日本的他的進口的地盤美國、加拿大跟其他都請不上司機問詢對不對有台灣嗎沒有所以說台灣的地盤我們現在要出口是不是修正科留的應該是日本的集團市場是好來往那邊看請問台灣的地盤出口有什麼優勢"},{"start":317.54,"end":339.453,"text":"我們的地板好吃啊好吃不會燒焦嘛有煙過嘛我們它通風不燒焦但是治療尋問管人工管對不對是所以好來往下面看來下面所以我們的治療我們的起地的尋問裡面都是人工管黃曉玉啊對 治療檢查過六成是但是我們的治療比例裡面黃曉玉在哪裡"},{"start":342.887,"end":353.058,"text":"約米超過五成,大豆、紅豆、薄荷超過兩倍,還有三成的油脂三成的動物油對不對?所以說如果美國的黃小玉落價,我們台灣的飼料落價,台灣的飼料的競爭,地霸的競爭,那是不是很危險?"},{"start":362.481,"end":372.543,"text":"治療才不同關嘛 是所以治療落隔我們台灣的第二競爭的開關嘛 全部落隔我們就有我們的競爭力有競爭力嘛 啊你這樣好 要存這行治療用油對待錢感恩仔應該是我們國內自己有很多的那個化製油脂的部分 治療的油啊很多都是卡料啦台滴的卡料 下腳料 還有地霸來啦但是地霸來台灣人有在吃啦"},{"start":390.619,"end":397.998,"text":"美國人有在吃豬肩嗎?比較沒有啦 他們不會吃所以說你來想啦卡了 以為卡了是不是美國很多"},{"start":401.338,"end":422.792,"text":"這就是要跟你考慮的就是這樣我問過一些治療手因為說現在這個黃曉玉下去治療的成分更多對他們來說是好事但是他們欠什麼他欠瘦的當然是油啦就是卡尿啦所以你能支持我們的協博書去了解一下嗎現在美國在黃曉玉下去之後他們的卡尿他們出口很多滴肉嘛他們賣其他國家的滴肉到那裡賣卡尿有在賣滴肉來嗎"},{"start":432.392,"end":459.166,"text":"所以這個時候我相信他們的卡尿也受所以我們現在的治療我們的油我們的動物油進口有進口黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆油黃豆"},{"start":461.291,"end":463.593,"text":"不要用過的東西不要用過其實是你不知道啦我們治療前有在用啦靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜靜"},{"start":489.653,"end":494.355,"text":"要總體來看總體來看來 苦寶針我們做的來說台語你也會通來兩個來 最好結論啦 結論啦什麼農業部農業部 處長你是不是可以講解起了原來的處長介紹以及提醒台灣地霸去日本的市場這麼有倫 你來提一個報告"},{"start":509.377,"end":516.759,"text":"去日本的保溫現在是比較沒辦法因為我們地溫要先清掉才有辦法是生鮮果所以要加油啊30年前日本是我們統統的外銷市場啊結果現在一年才2000噸過去是一年26萬噸欸我們要提出書面報告你來提出齁好來來隆也報告衛福部齁是不是可以針對我們國內油的加工藥要加強K渣偏要使用的跟治療的藍作為來顧國民的健康保障你能做到嗎這K渣你怎麼做啊"},{"start":537.543,"end":547.678,"text":"對啊 這做得到啊那如果沒有 你也要去封祭啊因為做治療是你們在管嘛做人質是部長在管嘛所以你們做的合作 把這個做得好好不好好好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":895,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時31分）主席，在場的委員先進、列席政府機關首長代表、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們農業部的杜次長、經濟部的江次長及經貿談判辦公室的顏副總談判代表。"],["江次長文若：是。委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好。先請教江次長。江次長，你看這次美國的關稅衝擊，對臺灣來講，我們現在是比較擔心出口賣不到美國，還是擔心美國進口很多到臺灣來？哪一個對我們衝擊比較大？"],["江次長文若：我覺得站在經濟部的立場，第一點的話，我們當然是希望我們的廠商都可以將最好的優質產品出口到全世界各地重要的市場。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在是不是進口的衝擊影響可能比較大？"],["江次長文若：目前為止，因為川普課徵10%的關稅是對我們出口的部分，但是對於進口的部分，現在還是持續觀察中。"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，我們請顏副總談判代表。在這樣一個進出口的變化當中，請問：對臺灣跟美國的農業來講，是我們賣給美國的農產品多，還是美國賣給我們的農產品多？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：當然是美國賣給我們比較多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們進口的國家，美國是第一名嘛，對不對？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：美國占我們出口市場第一名，那美國只是我們進口的……"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們是美國進口國家的第八大。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們是它的第八名，它是我們的第一名？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們是美國出口對象的第八名，但是它是我們出口對象的第一名。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對。但是在貿易值上面，它是順差的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，它是順差的。換言之，如果我跟劉建國，他是我唯一的好朋友，我是他排名第八的好朋友，你覺得誰比較擔心誰？我比較擔心嘛，美國是我最大的出口市場，我只是美國的第八出口市場。","好，現在換農業部了。來，次長，4月13日在高雄農改場，你不在，你知不知道部長陪院長去？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那天是跟毛豆業者在談，這段主席聽過，你可以休息。我們臺灣的毛豆一半是自用，一半是外銷，是不是這樣？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：外銷的部分，日本占七成，美國占三成，是不是這樣？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是美國的市場裡面吃毛豆吃最多的是不是中國的？"],["杜次長文珍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在中國跟美國在吵架，中國的毛豆沒辦法賣美國了，現在美國是不是很大的量？所以我們的部長說，臺灣的毛豆要趕快去搶美國的市場，對吧？"],["杜次長文珍：要顧牢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要搶美國的市場。"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是中國的毛豆沒辦法賣美國，就賣去哪裡？就賣去日本嘛。日本和中國是零關稅，但是臺灣銷日本是6%的關稅，所以我們現在在日本的毛豆市場是不是受到中國的威脅？是不是這樣？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以說貿易的關稅差別，會造成原來美國的市場我們臺灣要趕快去占，但是我們在日本的市場要擔心中國來占，是不是這樣？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外一項，美國是不是出口很多黃豆？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：美國出口的黃豆，是不是將近一半去中國？現在中國會向美國買黃豆嗎？所以你看，像這樣子的話，美國黃豆會跌價嗎？有可能會跌價。"],["杜次長文珍：有可能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：美國的黃、小、玉跌價，對臺灣的農業有什麼衝擊？有什麼影響？"],["杜次長文珍：我們大部分的黃、小、玉都是從美國來的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以有「好康」到我們嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：如果降價就有好康到。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。現在我們來看，世界在吃豬肉，進口豬肉跟出口豬肉的，出口豬肉的國家是不是這幾個國家？歐盟、美國、加拿大、巴西。豬肉買最多的是中國、日本、墨西哥和英國，有沒有臺灣？"],["杜次長文珍：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有嘛！臺灣很小。現在臺灣吃的豬肉一成是進口的，六成是我們本土的。"],["杜次長文珍：九成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：九成啦！本土的豬肉99%是供應國內，不到1%是銷往外國，外銷2,000噸是銷往哪裡？"],["杜次長文珍：新加坡、菲律賓。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有銷往日本？"],["杜次長文珍：加工的有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：加工的有。過去在30年前，臺灣的豬肉出口超過目前100倍，是27萬噸，現在只剩2,000噸。","往下看。你可以看到，30年前日本進口的豬肉有四成來自臺灣，臺灣出口的豬肉有九成銷往日本，日本對臺灣的豬肉市場來說，重不重要？外銷。"],["杜次長文珍：很重要。"],["鍾委員佳濱：重要。但是現在日本進口的豬肉，美國、加拿大和其他，差不多都占四分之一，對不對？有臺灣嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有，所以臺灣的豬肉如果現在要出口，首先應該考慮的是不是日本的高端市場？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問臺灣的豬肉出口有什麼優勢？"],["杜次長文珍：我們的豬肉好吃。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好吃不會腥嘛！有閹割過。通風養殖沒有臭味，但是飼料成本高，人工高，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們養豬的成本裡面哪一項最高？"],["杜次長文珍：黃、小、玉，飼料。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，飼料費超過六成，但是我們的飼料比例裡面，黃、小、玉占多少？"],["杜次長文珍：差不多一半。"],["鍾委員佳濱：玉米超過五成，大豆粕將近兩成，還有三成是什麼？"],["杜次長文珍：其他油脂類。"],["鍾委員佳濱：三成的動物油，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以美國的黃、小、玉如果跌價，我們臺灣的飼料跌價，臺灣豬肉的競爭力是不是會增加？飼料費占最高嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以飼料如果跌價，我們臺灣豬肉的競爭力會提高嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：如果成本降低，我們就有競爭力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有競爭力嘛！好，剩下這一項，飼料油脂從哪裡來？你知不知道？"],["杜次長文珍：應該是我們國內自己有很多化製油脂的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：飼料用油，很多都是下腳料啦！殺豬的下腳料，還有豬雜。"],["杜次長文珍：下腳料去做化製。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是豬雜臺灣人有在吃，美國人有在吃豬雜嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：比較沒有，他們不會吃。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你想想看，油的下腳料，是不是美國有很多？要考你的就是這個。我問過一些飼料廠，他說現在黃、小、玉跌價，飼料成本降低，對他們來說是好事，但是他們缺少什麼？他們缺少便宜的動物油，就是下腳料，所以你可以指示畜牧司去瞭解一下嗎？現在美國除了黃、小、玉跌價之外，他們的下腳料，因為他們出口很多豬肉嘛！他們賣豬肉給其他國家，有在賣下腳料嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：很少。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有在賣豬雜嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：划不來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：少嘛！所以這個時候我相信他們的下腳料也很便宜。","來，下面我要說結論了，現在飼料的動物油進口，我們有進口黃豆油嘛！我們人吃的是一種，給飼料用的是一種，所以我們如果大量去採購，除了買美國的黃、小、玉之外，也向它買下腳料作為我們飼料用動物油，你覺得可以嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：不曾用過的東西，我們的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不曾用過，其實是你不知道，人家飼料廠有在用啦！"],["杜次長文珍：進口的嗎？"],["鍾委員佳濱：進口的。"],["杜次長文珍：我們來瞭解一下。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，你們去瞭解，如果有需要的話，可以來幫忙一下嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：好，我們來瞭解一下。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們來幫忙一下，讓臺灣的飼料除了黃、小、玉之外，其他有需要的也可以讓它的價格比較低，飼料跌價，豬農的成本降低，我們臺灣豬肉可以增加出口的競爭力，你同意嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：要總體來看。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要總體來看。來，邱部長一起來，說台語你也通。最後的結論，次長，是不是請農業部就降低飼料原料取得價格及提升臺灣豬肉日本市場占有率，你們來提出一個報告？"],["杜次長文珍：去日本的部分現在暫時沒有辦法，因為我們豬瘟要先去申請之後，生鮮豬肉才有辦法過去。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以要加油啊！30年前日本是我們最大的外銷市場，結果現在一年才2,000噸，過去是一年27萬噸欸！"],["杜次長文珍：好，我們來提出書面報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，你們來提出。","來，農業部和衛福部，是不是可以針對國內油脂加工業來加強稽查？避免食用油和飼料用油混雜，來維護國民的健康，部長，你做得到嗎？這個稽查你們要做啊！"],["邱部長泰源：會，這個做得到。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農業部，你們也要去防止。"],["杜次長文珍：當然、當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為做飼料的是你們在管嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：是，飼料用歸飼料用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：做人吃的是部長在管嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們一起合作，把這個做好，好不好？"],["杜次長文珍：好。"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","請盧縣一委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}