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頭溫眼花人家說它這關稅戰就像核子彈一樣那這段期間我看到台灣也有一個核子彈這個核子彈就是你在4月13號"},{"start":60.75,"end":89.559,"text":"在民進黨殖民式投家政策先講台北場的時候講出來的話讓我非常訝異你很大膽而且可能是講真實的話這裡面主要有五點內容 歸納左院長說總統賴清德非常清楚台灣未來的走向要建立台灣的直體性以台灣的安全經濟完"},{"start":91.038,"end":117.303,"text":"第二個左院長說那位總統說台灣隊是世界隊台灣要走向美國脫離中國不走回頭路走向世界才對沒有沒有你講的走向世界沒有沒有走向美國這裡面寫的你仔細記住再來左院長說台灣隊就是世界隊"},{"start":118.732,"end":147.555,"text":"台灣隊不會是中國隊要構思中國政府台灣不走回頭路台灣不走延往路台灣不會走錯路再來一個重點希望台北城是真正的國家首都而不是一個跟中國大陸牽扯不清的台北城首都要有首都的氣魄"},{"start":149.318,"end":167.915,"text":"還有一個重點就是政府在這90天做好準備我就用這五個你的重要的內容來請教我們卓院長你剛剛講的裡面我只說你這場演講第一卓院長"},{"start":169.229,"end":192.089,"text":"你是為了發動大罷免的一個政治語言還是為了為美國關稅談判先是效忠美國的語言還是你內心真正的想法準備推動以行動來跟中國大陸前面的脫鉤斷鏈禁止所有的交往交流"},{"start":193.15,"end":212.137,"text":"為了要來購入中國為軍外的敵對勢力的集體作為高空世界圍我看了你這篇文章 我很緊張啊不然是我很尊重你這篇文章的內容你這條先給我回答到底這三項你是哪一項報告委員我們到"},{"start":213.911,"end":228.351,"text":"宣講 政策的宣講跟大罷免是無關的我們講的是政府的政策以及中央政府總預算跟大罷免無關就表示不是政治語言喔不然就是第二項跟美國效忠的喔"},{"start":229.032,"end":235.154,"text":"我們不是要走向美國 我說台灣是世界對台灣轉向 面向海洋 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夫婦來我們現在在講的是經貿政策"},{"start":327.048,"end":348.425,"text":"經貿政策你只要經貿政策而已而且我內心裡唯一的想法就是台灣是世界的台灣台灣不會是美國的台灣這個裡面的意思我們可能解讀到現在你也不敢講得很清楚因為太模糊了這樣你有心思我們要面向著太平洋還是譬如說台灣還是不管"},{"start":349.775,"end":355.962,"text":"你有欺騙,有騙了,你把Echo法現在停掉,表示你的欺騙,人家說要脫離中國大陸嘛。報告院長,蟹蓋跟我們台灣蓋基金,"},{"start":362.95,"end":387.975,"text":"偷中日本我們趕快跳出來我把他整個報紙仔細看了用AI在追尋還沒有一個國家講過說要偷中日本所以台灣非常積極表態啊不然你已經賴總統把大陸認為是境外的敵對勢力啊不然你大膽的去批評說那可不是我們不愛啦我不要跟你砍花啦"},{"start":388.905,"end":413.284,"text":"你敢不敢我們講的是從西進南向東拓到北河初中入北這句話是一個學者在專案報告當中所用的名稱你不要這樣跟我說你現在推給學者你政府官員裡面的報告都寫了初中入北我到底要聽什麼人的他是影院專案報告裡面的一個名稱你現在常常模模糊糊"},{"start":418.447,"end":439.573,"text":"你看你們幾個報告裡面有沒有投中入北你說學者講的我說官員講的你又不承認官員講的來謀進俄亂動啊所以我從來沒有講過台灣是美國隊啊台灣是世界隊我今天問這問題沒有什麼我要抓住你真正的心態你心中的思想跟你的想法"},{"start":440.745,"end":462.279,"text":"左委員長 你又聽得好你說希望台北城是真正的國家首都而不是一個跟中國大陸牽扯不清的台北城喔 你這整篇文章下來 我感覺是一個獨立宣言我現在要告訴你們 你現在台北城"},{"start":463.601,"end":491.231,"text":"是要做中華民國的首都還是要做台灣獨立國的首都你給我講清楚我們現在都在中華民國的憲法底下以後會不會變成台灣獨立國的首都這要講清楚現在我沒有任何這樣的你們現在常常說我要贏的中華民國你就贏了但是你們在任何場所都不談中華民國台灣獨立 台灣勇敢 台灣安全"},{"start":492.5,"end":511.219,"text":"沒有意思啦,一個中東到實實在在啦,儘管載人去出生,有載到你去拿,我一直在看這幾十年,心中的感受非常的深。你今天說要陪你去拍照,也沒有必要。"},{"start":512.441,"end":531.566,"text":"像剛剛你講說,你說餓的起源在哪裡?餓的起源沒有什麼,餓的起源政黨輪替就是互相的一個甲醉講這個不是講道理的,我們台灣要好百姓要好好過日子,大家實實在在靠台台灣,替台灣民眾想我告訴你什麼,你跟左院長"},{"start":537.433,"end":559.272,"text":"當然你這邊不是談經貿政策大罷免案就是政策政治的政策不是經濟政策我現在跟你說你說要讓政府90天好好準備你這是說免關稅的時間但是我的想法跟你不一樣你現在說要美國做好關稅談判準備90天我看不是"},{"start":564.434,"end":582.644,"text":"你們準備為大罷免案成案以後罷免在野黨的立委你們要做好準備你的內容其實印證起來是這樣不對不對罷免不可能啦我們大家站在這個舞台上你講的都說得很激動罷免這兩個字跟罷免這件事從來不在行政院任何討論當中我現在敏感你傳一下"},{"start":591.082,"end":619.893,"text":"國民軍執政黨酸絲就要翻倒了要完全脫財準備把台灣平時要帶入戰時由賴17條由軍法恢復軍法審判再來反滲透法再來要推動立法院大罷免準備消滅在野黨議長我們這幾年我這幾屆的立法委員我賣他還不算好嗎"},{"start":620.947,"end":644.406,"text":"你也知道我這個北京的選舉中也不簡單70幾個月我還有一個關係給我勘定我教授這就是我們普通人做事情的愛心腳踏實地地我們現在要取得立法院的都是大家在說你們要推動國安法的手法你們要進一步宣布國家緊急狀態"},{"start":646.829,"end":672.828,"text":"後來軍事界就開始台灣獨立我現在民間大家在跟我講無緣無故這個地方的委員信心勾勾申請你們講問求罷了我們還在哪裡你說預算你知我知大家心知肚明我刪了什麼預算 跟我講沒有嘛 整三年來大家都不知道你也把董事預算跟民眾講 刪去"},{"start":675.561,"end":702.249,"text":"凍結預算你民進黨的立委有提國民黨的立委有提比較多那是大家說一個我意思要表態而已啊你把他扣到為真的事實這個政黨怎麼可以相信你啊我希望在你這個院長裡面最好大家能平平安安過好日子不要讓悲傷很大面目民間非常驕傲我跟你說的是這位"},{"start":704.271,"end":729.76,"text":"有人跟我講你以前眼睛很柔和現在變得很原始你的好朋友一個跟我這麼講可能壓力大但是台灣的變形過後才重要我這說完 我也得不到你的答案你說你講的話不是政治問題 經濟問題你們的問題模模糊糊的待過但是 左院長"},{"start":731.092,"end":741.089,"text":"你這篇的文章出來我是讀了三四遍一直讀我要了解你們真正推動政策要做什麼了解你內心的含義"},{"start":742.915,"end":762.235,"text":"我相信跟我今天要問的問題已經差不多了再來這是說安全我們台灣一句話千金未輸,萬金未黃金現在所有的智庫裡面都說台海兩岸"},{"start":763.937,"end":792.796,"text":"完美的風暴要行程,我希望要紳士、要熟慮,好好地,大家看要安裝來,說出來,社幹部前面的人比較高,大家平安,大家會說的話就盡量說,包括台灣內部的政治狀況,也是一樣,看了幾年,我不知道現在怎麼變成這樣,那些往今哪裡講的一個是真的,我是很老實的人,我是很實在在講話,"},{"start":794.017,"end":807.463,"text":"你叫我講這話 我不跟他說 我就這樣很羈絆台灣不是要走向美國 是走向全世界我們從立足台灣 布局全球 行銷全世界我不是跟你說走向全世界是台灣轉向面向海洋 走向全世界你走向美國 考慮那個"},{"start":813.524,"end":817.405,"text":"那是我們在經濟上要自主安全這意義很清楚啦好 再來我要講我地方的事情今天聽說你們把預算裡面全部補助減了50我接到 好 載你們來"},{"start":835.148,"end":856.663,"text":"大家來都照這個法律做,你們都講五十多項愛到不行,什麼事情都不做,不要這麼做,改改改,你們執政黨要有那個氣度,那我現在很快,再來苗栗大溪谷計畫,需要行政院全面協調,接下來列地推動,苗栗縣很積極,"},{"start":858.516,"end":874.611,"text":"報告院長苗栗縣窮怕的時候我們在努力奮鬥在改變苗栗縣這台鐵主管機關沒有你仔細看一下那個今天廣密市長以前在當國發會還有請我們國發會主委幫我們協調這樣的事情因為國發會是屬於大巿府上位計畫"},{"start":882.165,"end":911.24,"text":"那國科會又不敢擔當因為我們那兩地的科學研究加以差不多3.8公頃科學管理研究要8.5公頃8.5公頃 存在8.5公頃不開心勇於擔當 勇於認識你跟我打過 一直打過去給院長對苗栗瞭解產業何自何從不跟你說現在產業是無所適從台灣的企業相應無名次你仔細看了這個內容再來"},{"start":913.666,"end":924.85,"text":"再來這個裡面講四人CPTPP我在108年11月我就提出說日本要請中國大陸不要請台灣好 謝謝陳"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":414,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（15時49分）兩位院長好，首先有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員超明：卓院長好，感謝你們的關心。"],["卓院長榮泰：平安、平安。"],["陳委員超明：卓院長。美國川普關稅戰的大刀一揮，搞得世界經濟貿易的秩序整個非常混亂，天昏地暗、頭昏眼花，人家說他是關稅戰，就像核子彈一樣。這一段期間，我看到臺灣也有一個核子彈，這個核子彈就是你在4月13號，在民進黨「人民是頭家」政策宣講臺北場時講出來的話，讓我非常訝異，你很大膽，而且可能是講真實的話。這裡面主要有五點內容歸納，卓院長說總統賴清德非常清楚臺灣未來的走向，要建立臺灣的主體性與臺灣的安全經濟網；第二個，卓院長說賴總統說臺灣隊是世界隊，臺灣要走向美國，脫離中國，不走回頭路。"],["卓院長榮泰：走向世界才對，不是走向……"],["陳委員超明：沒有，你講的喔！走向美國，這裡面寫的，你仔細去讀。再來，卓院長說臺灣隊就是世界隊，臺灣隊不會是中國隊，要告訴中國政府，臺灣不走回頭路、臺灣不走冤枉路、臺灣不會走錯路。再來一個重點，希望臺北城是真正的國家首都，而不是一個跟中國大陸牽扯不清的臺北城，首都要有首都的氣魄。還有一個重點，就是讓政府在這90天做好準備。我就這五個你重要的內容來請教我們卓院長，你剛剛講的裡面，我只說你這場演講，第一，卓院長，你這是為了發動大罷免的一個政治語言，還是為了美國關稅談判宣示效忠美國的語言，還是你內心真正的想法，準備推動與用行動來跟中國大陸全面脫鉤斷鍊，禁止所有的交往、交流，是為了要來對付中國為境外敵對勢力的具體作為？跟我說實話，我看到你這篇文章，我很緊張，表示我很注重你這篇文章的內容，你這條先回答我，到底這三項你是哪一項？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們政策的宣講跟大罷免是無關的，我們講的是政府的政策，以及中央政府總預算……"],["陳委員超明：跟罷免無關就表示不是政治語言喔！不然就是第二項跟美國效忠的？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，我們不是要走向美國，我說臺灣是世界隊，臺灣要……"],["陳委員超明：你在哪裡講得慷慨激昂，看你講成這樣好像是真的，在這裡跟我們說不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，臺灣轉向、面向海洋，走向美國，這個是對的。"],["陳委員超明：沒有啦，我問你這三項，你跟我說一下嘛，我抓不出你的意思，真正的含義在哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣轉向、面向海洋，不能只向中國這一方，面向海洋、走向世界。"],["陳委員超明：我這裡面有這一段，我看過了，但是我重點是這一段面向海洋有好幾種，背對著它面向海洋，臺灣海峽也是海洋。"],["卓院長榮泰：面向海洋、走向太平洋。"],["陳委員超明：你現在……我很尊重你……"],["卓院長榮泰：前一句是臺灣轉向……"],["陳委員超明：但是我覺得你越來越會狡辯了，巧辯跟狡辯。"],["卓院長榮泰：第三個……"],["陳委員超明：來，再第二項，好，你跟我說面向海洋，就不敢跟我實際的事情……"],["卓院長榮泰：是要走向世界啊！"],["陳委員超明：因為這篇文章可能比一個核子炸彈還要厲害。再來，卓院長你說要告訴中國政府，臺灣是美國隊，不會是中國隊……"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣是世界隊。"],["陳委員超明：臺灣要走向美國、脫離中國。我不敢亂寫，我全部依照你講話的內容寫，所以卓院長，我再跟你請教，這種講法從你行政院長的口中說出是非常重要，而且非常嚴肅的，是不是為了賴總統520就職一週年演說的預告與鋪陳，要正式告知中國大陸那一邊，臺灣要準備宣告獨立，跟他們都沒關聯，互不來往？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在在講的是經貿政策。"],["陳委員超明：經貿政策，你只有經貿政策而已？"],["卓院長榮泰：而且我內心裡唯一的想法就是臺灣是世界的臺灣，臺灣不會是美國的臺灣。"],["陳委員超明：既然這裡面的意思我們可能解讀到現在，你也不敢講得很清楚，因為太模糊了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我很清楚、我很清楚。"],["陳委員超明：你有宣示我們要面向著太平洋，這邊臺灣海峽不管，你有氣魄、有膽量，你現在把ECFA停掉，表示你的氣魄，你們現在說要脫離中國大陸嘛！報告院長，世界只有我們臺灣很積極，脫中入北，我們趕快跳出來，我把整個報紙仔細看，用AI蒐尋，還沒有一個國家講過要脫中入北，只有臺灣非常積極表態，不然……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們講的是……"],["陳委員超明：賴總統已經把大陸認為是境外的敵對勢力，不然你有那麼大膽及氣魄說ECFA都不要，我不跟你牽扯啦，你敢不敢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們講的是從西進、南向、東拓到北合，脫中入北，說脫中入北這句話是一個學者在專案報告當中所用的名詞。"],["陳委員超明：你不能這樣跟我說，你現在推給學者，你政府官員裡面的報告都寫了「脫中入北」，我到底要聽誰的？"],["卓院長榮泰：他是引用專案報告裡面的一個名詞。"],["陳委員超明：好了，時間有限，這樣吵會講不清楚，你們現在常常模模糊糊，你看你們幾個報告裡面有沒有脫中入北，你說學者講的，我說官員講的，你又不承認官員講的，我們謀定而後動啦！不能這樣……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我也從來沒有講過臺灣是美國隊啊！"],["陳委員超明：我是非常尊敬你。"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣是世界隊。"],["陳委員超明：我今天問這些問題沒有什麼，我要抓出你真正的內涵及心中的思想與想法，卓院長你再好好聽，你說希望臺北城是真正的國家首都，而不是一個跟中國大陸牽扯不清的臺北城，你這整篇文章下來，我覺得是一篇獨立宣言，我現在要問你，現在臺北城是要當中華民國的首都，還是要當臺灣獨立國的首都？你說清楚，好讓我們有依循嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在都在中華民國的憲法底下。"],["陳委員超明：以後會不會變成臺灣獨立國的首都，這要說清楚。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們沒有任何這樣的……"],["陳委員超明：你們現在常常是，我要用到中華民國就用，但是你們在任何場所都不談中華民國，臺灣獨立、臺灣勇敢、臺灣往前衝，沒有意思啦！一個政黨要實實在在啦！政權隨人執政，有本事你去拿，我一直看這個幾十年了，心中的感觸非常的深，今天如果要把你們批評得很難聽，也沒有必要，像剛剛你說惡的起源在哪裡，沒有什麼惡的起源，政黨輪替就是互相矯正，說這些不是在講道理，我們臺灣要好，百姓要好好過日子，大家實實在在，腳踏臺灣的土地，替臺灣民眾想，我比較擔心的，卓院長，當然你這邊不是談經貿政策，大罷免案就是政策，政治的政策，不是經濟政策，我現在跟你說，你說要讓政府90天好好準備，你這是在說免關稅的時間，但是我的想法跟你不一樣，你現在說為與美國做好關稅談判準備90天，我看不是，你們要準備為大罷免案成案以後罷免在野黨的立委，你們要做好準備，你的內容其實驗證起來是這樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：不對，不對。"],["陳委員超明：不可能啦！我們大家站在這個舞臺上講話都講得很激動，講到你心中的想法，你都不承認。"],["卓院長榮泰：罷免這兩個字跟罷免這件事從來不在行政院任何討論當中。"],["陳委員超明：現在民間在傳，說執政黨選輸就要翻桌，要完全獨裁，準備把臺灣從平時要帶入戰時，有賴17條、有恢復軍法審判，再來要反滲透法，再來就是要推動立法院大罷免，準備消滅在野黨。院長，我們做1年，我做7屆的立法委員，如果我做不好，他們還會再選我嗎？你也知道我這個背景能選上也不簡單，七十幾歲了，我還有一個官司，我還是照常，這就是我們平常做事情要腳踏實地。你們現在要取得立法院的多數，大家在說你們要推動國安法的修法，要進一步宣布國家緊急狀態，之後進入戒嚴，再來就要走向臺灣獨立，現在民間大家都在跟我說，無緣無故，立法委員辛辛苦苦選舉、當了1年，你們說我們很差，我們差在哪裡？你說預算，你知、我知、大家心知肚明，有刪除什麼預算跟我說，沒有嘛！幾十年了，大家怎麼會不知道？你把凍結預算跟民眾講成刪減，凍結預算民進黨的立委有提，國民黨的立委有提比較多，那是大家要表態一個意思而已，你們把它扣為真的事實，這樣的政黨要怎麼相信？我希望在你擔任院長期間，最好大家能平平安安、過好日子，不要讓百姓這麼擔憂，民間非常焦慮。","我跟你說的是實在話，有人跟我講你以前眼睛很柔和，現在變得很嚴肅，你的一個好朋友跟我這麼講，可能壓力大，但是顧好臺灣的百姓很重要。我講完了也得不到你的答案，你說你講的話不是政治問題，而是經濟問題，問的問題你模模糊糊帶過，但是卓院長你這篇文章出來，我是讀了三、四遍，一直讀，我要了解你們真正推動的政策要做什麼，了解你內心的含義，我相信跟我今天要問的問題已經差不了多遠了。","再來是談到安全，我們臺灣有一句話「千金買厝，萬金買厝邊」，現在所有的智庫都說臺海兩岸完美的風暴要形成，我希望要深思、要熟慮，大家看要怎麼好好來談，世間沒有什麼人比較厲害，大家平安，大家會講的就儘量講，包括臺灣內部的政治狀況也是一樣，看了1年，我不知道現在怎麼會變成這樣，那些網軍講的哪個是真的？我是很老實的人，我是很實在在講話，你叫我說假話，我不敢說，我只是很期盼……"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣不是要走向美國，是走向全世界，我們從立足臺灣，布局全球、行銷全世界……"],["陳委員超明：沒有啦，你每次都跟我說走向美國，我也有跟你說走向全世界。"],["卓院長榮泰：是臺灣轉向，面向海洋，走向全世界。"],["陳委員超明：你走向美國，脫離中國大陸……"],["卓院長榮泰：那是我們在經濟上要自主、安全。"],["陳委員超明：你還強調我們不走回頭路、不走什麼、不走什麼，這意義很清楚了。","再來我要說我們地方的事情，今天聽說你們把預算裡面主計處全部補助減額50%，我接收到這個資訊，好，照你們的來，大家都照這個法律做，你們全部都減50%，地方受到影響，剩下的經費，事情都無法做，不要這麼做，該給就給，你們執政黨要有氣度。","我現在再談到苗栗大矽谷計畫，需要行政院出面協調，在推動過程中，苗栗縣很積極，報告院長，苗栗縣窮怕了，所以我們在努力奮鬥，要改變苗栗縣，這裡面沒有主管機關，你仔細看一下，龔秘書長以前在國發會，還有請國發會主委幫我們協調這件事情，因為大矽谷計畫是上位計畫，國科會又不敢擔當，因為我們那兩塊科學園區加起來差不多300公頃，科學園區快要150公頃，剩下的150公頃不敢做，勇於擔當、勇於任事，你跟我打勾，一直打過去，我讓院長了解苗栗的狀況，產業何去何從？我跟你說，現在產業是無所適從！臺灣的企業像遊牧民族，你仔細看這個內容。","再來，簡報裡面講4年CPTPP，我在108年11月就提出日本邀請中國大陸、不邀請臺灣，我已經提出警告，結果我們雙邊貿易一事無成。再來，我要講農業的問題，陳部長，沒有點到你，那部分的質詢我改天找你。","院長，一切拜託了，謝謝！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、經濟部的備詢。","接下來我們請黃建賓委員質詢，張宏陸委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃國昌","黃珊珊","王定宇","陳素月","葛如鈞","許宇甄","吳琪銘","賴士葆","蔡其昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳菁徽","羅明才","吳宗憲","陳超明","黃建賓","張宏陸","丁學忠"],"page_start":30,"meetingDate":["2025-04-25"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00002","1143901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}