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濟部呢也都非常明確的表達不支持這個計劃案那沒有民意的這個"},{"start":41.514,"end":64.892,"text":"那地方政府呢也是反對所以再加上這個開發案的規劃幾乎都是要用公有土地來開發那這個根本就是一個不可能的開發案但是呢有心人士呢都一直在不斷的顛倒是非把這樣如此荒唐的開發案呢在網路上放風向誤導成政府開發"},{"start":66.493,"end":87.918,"text":"這根本就是一個赤裸裸的造謠那我想在這裡請部長再一次鄭重說明一下這件事好 包委員他其實這個是開發公司他想要開發然後就送到環境部的官網說他想要開發這個事做一個意見徵詢他的報告書都沒有送進來所以他基本上是在前置的一個處理"},{"start":88.738,"end":106.77,"text":"那因為我們環境部的過去在審查的經驗像這樣的這個所謂的陸域風機都是非常嚴格非常小心的在檢視那而且呢它又是在美麗的台東所以我當然我必須說我們是裁判不可能是往前走的但是我是覺得要對台中鄉親有一個更負責任的交代"},{"start":107.17,"end":121.43,"text":"我也公開說了這個是不被鼓勵的而且我們自己也不會去支持所以也謝謝委員讓我有這個機會所以這個案子如果他真的要開發要送進來我們一定會嚴格的來審查甚至跟這個地方也會尊重地方的一個意見"},{"start":122.205,"end":138.164,"text":"是 謝謝部長那這個開發案的爭議它是發生在4月初在地的這個自救會為了要彙集民意的支持所以有開始連署這樣的一個動作那這個連署書我們看一下等一下 前面"},{"start":140.536,"end":159.756,"text":"聯署說它只要填上姓名還有居住的縣市就可以部長應該有看過這個聯署吧有這個反對東城風力發電的聯署它是展現地方民意的一個方式我們都認同而且也是支持的"},{"start":160.336,"end":183.928,"text":"但是呢有不肖人士竟然是把這樣子名義的連署書呢跟這個罷免我的這個連署書做了一個連結那這一張呢這個是我在這個社群平台上面所這個擷取的資訊有某位立委的團隊在桃園邀請了原住民連署反對東城風力發電可是最後"},{"start":184.548,"end":201.934,"text":"拿給這個族人他去簽名的卻是罷免成癮的連署書當下還說罷免成癮風力發電就不會蓋了這樣子的話術根本就是在欺騙我們原住民也非常看不起我們原住民"},{"start":202.894,"end":226.927,"text":"這樣的行為已經違反了選罷法第98條的第一項第二款運用非法方式取得連署這樣子的栽贓嫁禍你不能自己說賣完牛肉之後又掛羊頭賣狗肉這樣子的欺騙連署的行為真的是非常非常的可恥也是非常非常簡直就是一個小人的行為我在這裡"},{"start":228.447,"end":253.397,"text":"也要警告這位委員你們團隊還跑去文件站去騙老人家連署那我想這些其實這些證據我們都已經彙整好了也會採取法律行動那我覺得真的這個身為立法委員我們應該要保護人民千萬不要害自己的團隊還有支持者這是非常危險的"},{"start":254.618,"end":258.018,"text":"好那我接下來呢另外要請這個環管署署長"},{"start":261.993,"end":283.932,"text":"報告委員因為我們最近也在處理有一些團體用抖音不斷的造謠例如說破壞環境的事情像這個其實也類似我們最近遇到的事情我們會併案直接去檢舉抖音或是一些特定的集團故意在造謠我們政府所以我們最近在處理這個當中所以這個是非常惡劣的造謠"},{"start":286.374,"end":298.171,"text":"我想應該要把這個正確的資訊我們傳遞給民眾是是是好謝謝那這個我今天拜讀了這個環境部的報告想要針對第14項計畫加強裸露垃圾處理來跟兩位請教"},{"start":302.421,"end":306.064,"text":"首先這個全國裸露垃圾掩埋場的佔滯量已經從112年的84萬公噸下降到113年的75萬公噸那其中彰化縣自113年的7月起就非常積極的在推動垃圾強制分類破帶檢查"},{"start":321.238,"end":339.029,"text":"截至這個該年的該年底全線垃圾量已經成功減少了2.3萬公噸這個減幅將近到兩成減量的這個績效是非常卓越的那環境部也因此呼籲了各縣市應該要跟進要響應"},{"start":343.356,"end":370.638,"text":"本席的第一個問題就是說看起來垃圾強制分類破帶的檢查它是一項非常有價值的做法那環管署呢為什麼沒有積極補助或者規劃相關的計畫那讓各縣市來好好學習就是說難道是說這個彰化縣辦理這麼好的計畫都不用花錢就可以減少兩成的掩埋垃圾還是說你們只要呼籲就好了"},{"start":372.799,"end":388.388,"text":"向委員報告其實全國各地就兩個縣市做得真的很好一個是金門一個是彰化他們都很強力在做迫待及隨車的檢查那這部分其實在我們的擴大的不務會報裡面各"},{"start":390.209,"end":405.885,"text":"環保局局長到的時候我們都有做專案報告期待各環保局回去之後要求各清潔隊做以上的動作那這一個部分這個各縣市應該朝委員剛才建議的方向去做"},{"start":406.598,"end":423.589,"text":"好 本席剛剛的建議雖然沒有講得很具體但是我也是用反問的方式因為你剛剛署長又再次的提到因為我講了呼籲那你剛剛講的是期待所以我只是說因為要做推動這麼好的計畫它是需要燒錢的"},{"start":424.93,"end":445.849,"text":"那如果有實質上的這個補助跟協助我想搞不好減少的會不止兩成而且這兩個縣市我想金門的財政應該是比較好因為他們有金九那我們台東有什麼我們有好空氣但我們其他什麼都沒有還有一堆還沒有處理好的活化的垃圾所以我只是在"},{"start":446.73,"end":468.662,"text":"提醒就是說這麼好的這個計畫那你們只能這樣呼籲嗎你有沒有更具體的作為那如果你剛剛講期待看起來你還沒有很積極的這個作為的時候那你就好好思考本席在這邊給你反問看能不能讓你舉一反三可以讓你有比較正面的一些激勵"},{"start":469.742,"end":486.93,"text":"你好好想一想那這些未強制分類的這個破帶的垃圾那新聞報導是被退運也就是不能被裸露掩埋可是呢垃圾還是存在的那這些呢就是說仍然存在的垃圾何去何從"},{"start":488.711,"end":504.103,"text":"就是說要退去哪裡難道是要退去你那邊嗎要退去署長家嗎還是說到底要退給誰我們不知道啊所以這樣子的裸露垃圾的減量它的意義到底在哪裡署長要不要說明一下"},{"start":504.343,"end":523.672,"text":"是跟委員報告其實委員剛才關心的我們在全國的這個縣市跟清潔隊的考核裡面對於垃圾的減量這部分是有佔很大的分數那另外這個退運的部分其實就是要求清潔隊員要仔細檢查"},{"start":526.033,"end":542.308,"text":"那如果裡面有資源垃圾的話就退回清潔隊重新再把資源物拿出來之後才能再進到焚化廠裡面那就是這種作為像今天跟昨天也有例如雲林縣的湖尾也有退運的狀況這清潔隊就會這個"},{"start":545.891,"end":567.573,"text":"所以目前主要都是清潔隊員在很辛苦的處理這些被退運的垃圾是的 所以我們呼籲民眾一定要做好這個垃圾分類跟清潔隊員去檢查反正如果有些民眾覺得說反正你退運也是退給清潔隊員沒我的事啊 你就比較辛苦就好清潔隊員在丟垃圾的時候那起碼你是也該給清潔隊員"},{"start":569.155,"end":569.175,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":585.133,"end":603.656,"text":"再來就是說其次垃圾佔滯量的變化應該要有流量的概念而不是現存量的概念也就是說你們應該告訴民眾各縣市當年度增加了多少掩埋垃圾然後處理了多少的掩埋垃圾所以累積了多少垃圾掩埋的垃圾"},{"start":604.677,"end":621.83,"text":"那這樣子你們提供給民眾監督的這個平台才能夠真正感受到各縣市的政府的用心嘛那以及這個掩埋垃圾真正減少的量嘛因為你們現在是把全國的這個量全部都加總起來113年減少了9萬噸你看這個圖表我其實"},{"start":626.813,"end":652.068,"text":"是看不出來就是說因為可能有的縣市增加了有的就突然減少很多那個平均值我就看不出各縣市的這個狀況嘛那而且按照就是說你這樣子的這個圖表你們的理想上的這個計劃那是不是我這樣問好了114年今年你預估會減少多少量"},{"start":654.776,"end":680.944,"text":"報告委員第一個就是說有流量的概念這個委員真的是講到一個重點所以我們在我們的這個平台裡面對外有網站公告所有的掩埋場的一個增減量都有那個是對外來公開的那114年應該會大量減少因為114年的下半年度也就是"},{"start":681.764,"end":691.179,"text":"那個我們經費下去之後他們花包目前都在作業中那下半年度就真的工程就進行得到多少啊 預估原則上我們"},{"start":692.193,"end":717.909,"text":"那個比例可能要查一下大概會有40%減少你去年是減少9萬噸嘛然後你接下來就減少40%嘛百分之40百分之40減少三十幾萬那所以你這樣速度很快喔因為現在剩下75嘛那才會增加多少我們不知道所以你預估大概多少年會減光光"},{"start":719.788,"end":735.755,"text":"我們講的是裸露垃圾會在民國115年的年底把所有裸露垃圾通通完成這個好那我們也是很快啦那我們就到時候來檢視一下你的成績那希望那個時候你也都還在"},{"start":736.895,"end":754.564,"text":"好 那我們用這個接下來就是說你們用這個AI監測還有復塗打包加強這個早期的處理這個都非常好但是我Google了這個掩埋場的火災的新聞從113年12月以來部長知道有多少縣市的掩埋場發生火災嗎"},{"start":761.104,"end":784.771,"text":"我剛剛有聽到部長講的一個數字你剛剛說的七十幾次那個是新竹而已新竹這五年來發生了七十幾次那其他縣市澎湖、桃園、新竹、台南、屏東都有發生大火而且這些縣市都不止一次那這樣子因為大火燒掉了垃圾搞不好前面就"},{"start":785.951,"end":802.49,"text":"前面的這個垃圾分類的破帶檢查的好幾倍這樣燒所以加強裸露垃圾的處理讓這個火災多燒幾次看起來就好像減少很多但是這樣你們環關署你們的難道這個是你們紅外線熱潛儀的績效嗎"},{"start":806.375,"end":815.394,"text":"當然不是 包委員應該是這樣民國我們發現確實常常有火災的現象所以在民國113年我們投入了大概1.1億"},{"start":818.065,"end":845.598,"text":"112年也同樣投入大概也是1.1億去做這個防災的動作那我們現在在這個114年以後這個會大量減少這個火災的狀況那第二個就即使它有火災也會很快的把它撲滅以往會燒比較久那現在因為有熱顯像儀它只要有熱那我們就會趕快去做處理這大概是做這樣的處理上"},{"start":848.067,"end":862.243,"text":"因為你說這兩年都投注了1億多嘛那你應該比較具體的告訴大家就是你投注之後這兩年跟前面的比較數據減少了多少你現在有這樣的統計嗎"},{"start":864.691,"end":892.252,"text":"還是還要再等多久我們才會看到效果報告委員那個我們有統計不過這數據容我查一下好容你查一下會後跟我講一下我們時間也不夠了那再來就是說這個環境敏感地區的這個場子優先處理請問是什麼樣的你的什麼是所謂敏感地區是怎麼樣然後現在有多少個場子你們優先處理了什麼"},{"start":893.208,"end":921.104,"text":"是那我們的台東算不算敏感地區台東有兩個敏感地區台東分別是在大武跟這個東河是自來水保護區那全國有七個敏感地區那個我們會優先處理好那我再提醒你一下敏感地區我們比較容易了解當然就是自然生態地質但是同時也包括了人文"},{"start":922.666,"end":942.128,"text":"那我必須要提醒我們台東的人文特別原住民的這些不管是這個部落也好文化也好我想這個你也應該要好好列入好這個敏感地區的這個其中的一項很重要的因素去討論去看待好嗎"},{"start":943.809,"end":970.08,"text":"那這裡面你們也提到是說野脈量的比較少的規劃集中到其他野脈廠去我看了一下台東就是有一點雖然只有1.1萬公噸但是畢竟它就是一個好山好水的一個很優質的環境你們有沒有規劃要優先移走因為大家都去玩都期待我們保持原來的樣態"},{"start":972.503,"end":994.954,"text":"包括委員那個委員之前有關心整個台東的賣場是所以我們很快的跟台東縣的環保局聯絡他原則在4月底之前他會統整這個一次那我們會到現場再去看對對對原來今天我是要到台東去的是沒關係你下次可以跟我一起去是謝謝委員"},{"start":997.414,"end":1019.019,"text":"所以你們有列入優先的處理這樣很好所以也開始規劃了嗎有尤其委員上次特別提到天空之鏡成功獨立的那個部分我們有請同仁今天留在你額外好不好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝最後一個就是"},{"start":1021.4,"end":1050.092,"text":"合併並督導就是各縣市的這個加速裸露垃圾的妥善處理期程那環境部你們黃官署已經在113年10月到11月之間發函同意備查並請各縣市依報這個期程於115年底前完成這個裸露堆置垃圾妥善處理包括有復塗打包跟焚化那後續呢每個月定期召開會議追蹤辦理進度那我要請問一下就是說你們這個目標真的可以達成嗎"},{"start":1052.136,"end":1066.935,"text":"所有的這個環保局局長都有在上面簽署他一定會達到所以他們都有就職有簽署如果沒有達到就是他們的問題不是你的問題就是署長還有各縣市局長還有我都來就職"},{"start":1069.117,"end":1093.413,"text":"這樣有你們倆的手足我就比較放心了那因為這個妥協處理的這個三個方式剛剛講的附土包括跟AI的監測它其實它只是告訴我們大家說一個概念性的做法它也沒有就是說到底能夠做到什麼程度還有具體的目標它沒有一個完整的說明也沒有這個強制力啦因為看起來沒有什麼法則"},{"start":1094.934,"end":1121.851,"text":"就是說本席很難去相信說貴部的這個還管署可以真的節制到各個縣市政府那如果說沒有辦法節制也不知道你們每個月定期召開這個會議到底能夠達到什麼樣的成效到底這個115年底對於這個裸露的這個垃圾的處理是不是可以變成不裸露還是說有更明確的目標那以後那例如說我們以後垃圾都不用掩埋了這樣子"},{"start":1124.028,"end":1148.593,"text":"這段期間其實我們總共有169次的現場督導其中由部長親自前往的有16場次那也拜會了有5個縣市首長所以我們很有信心我們會持續推動下去每月也在督導然後公布在網站上面每一個野脈場的增減量都在上面可以讓民眾來一起來關心以上"},{"start":1149.293,"end":1174.089,"text":"對就是我想說關心但我想比較強制力的做法我還是沒有聽到也沒有看到啦所以這個部分也是你會後要去好好研議思考的因為我們希望說環關署的升格是有意義的啦主要是這樣子那也期待說在部長跟這個署長的這個努力之下呢當然部長好好督導這個署長我也是好好的監督你"},{"start":1177.771,"end":1193.238,"text":"好 那我們就是希望能夠真正來解決這個掩埋場就是委員所詬病的這些惡臭 火災 地下水污染的這個垃圾 災運掩埋產生的這些空污的問題好 以上謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝陳檢委員的發言也謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}