{"error":false,"id":["160803"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":160803,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160803","日期":"2025-04-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-20-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-04-30T11:53:25+08:00","結束時間":"2025-04-30T12:01:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:53","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b9423691405ff2b596918c8693dd611367b4ddd98ab4b80bc74e67d3f1c478c5b52ad615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:53:25 - 12:01:18","會議時間":"2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查「保險法」15案：\n一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案。【後3案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第一百二十三條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案。\n【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.81971875,"end":6.342218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.050968750000001,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.109718750000003,"end":11.860343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.552218750000002,"end":13.868468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.695343750000003,"end":15.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.26471875,"end":17.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.37409375,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.94346875,"end":21.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.664718750000002,"end":22.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.250968750000002,"end":24.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.80346875,"end":27.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.21221875,"end":29.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.71409375,"end":31.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.739093750000002,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.072218750000005,"end":34.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.337843750000005,"end":35.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.85659375,"end":37.611593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.354093750000004,"end":38.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.65346875,"end":40.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.336593750000006,"end":42.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.95221875,"end":46.454093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.500343750000006,"end":48.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.744718750000004,"end":51.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.242218750000006,"end":55.313468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.87034375,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.31721875,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.35034375,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.47221875000001,"end":65.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.53534375000001,"end":68.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.47159375000001,"end":70.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.41221875000001,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.72846875,"end":74.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.61409375000001,"end":76.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.40284375,"end":79.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.42784375000001,"end":83.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.83221875000001,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.21159375,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.11846875,"end":91.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.79284375,"end":93.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.46346875,"end":103.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.41971875,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.94659375,"end":112.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.13971875,"end":141.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.54034375,"end":142.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.55721875,"end":147.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.73784375,"end":153.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.37409375000001,"end":154.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.55534375000002,"end":154.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.75784375,"end":154.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.84221875,"end":154.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.97721875000002,"end":157.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.93034375000002,"end":164.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.38159375,"end":159.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.96721875,"end":165.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.23721875,"end":171.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.34159375000002,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.95659375000002,"end":180.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.99846875,"end":188.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.15409375000002,"end":189.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.89596875,"end":189.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.38096875000002,"end":192.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.06409375,"end":195.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.91596875000002,"end":198.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.07159375,"end":201.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.64909375000002,"end":206.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.47534375,"end":220.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.93034375000002,"end":213.39846875},{"speake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詐騙洗錢已經成為所有台灣人的痛我們從去年開始在處理有關於打詐的事法整個過程當中"},{"start":16.322,"end":40.474,"text":"虛擬貨幣成為洗錢的工具早就不是新聞了這也是為什麼去年的時候我們不斷的要求行政機關對於虛擬貨幣要採行必要的高度管制否則的話這個狀況越來越多人受害結果沒想到今年"},{"start":44.997,"end":73.894,"text":"最新的狀況是必享科技跟詐團勾結洗錢每個月洗錢的金額上億元上億元發生了這個案子以後大家開始關心我們虛擬貨幣的管制到底做到什麼樣子的程度我們下去看發現荒腔走板到"},{"start":75.9,"end":91.345,"text":"說啊全台唯一授權通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明這不是笑話嗎這不是笑話嗎通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明然後呢然後呢"},{"start":94.502,"end":112.114,"text":"通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明代表什麼意義可不可以逐位跟社會大眾說明一下說這個聲明其實毫無意義啦他自我聲明啊自我表彰啊現實上面啊根本沒有辦法發揮任何管制的效果"},{"start":114.438,"end":140.705,"text":"這跟委員說明一下就是也趁這個機會謝謝委員提供這個對外說明的機會我想金管會過去在行政院的分工下面他就指定今晚會是做投資跟支付目的的虛擬資產的主政單位當然第一步先從洗錢房子的開始所以我們第一步是用由他們進行洗房聲明開始這只是說他們先停一下這就是我的問題"},{"start":142.574,"end":156.436,"text":"通過了這個洗錢防治聲明剛剛主委的意思是這是他們的自我聲明嗎不是 先他願意做這件事情以後對啊但是我們現在已經進沒有沒有 主委不好意思喔什麼叫做他願意做這個聲明"},{"start":158.713,"end":180.391,"text":"我做這個聲明毫無代價毫無成本啊我出一張嘴啊我們在過去的時候我們對石家的這個東西進行檢查我們也採處採罰其實我們也不是說完全只是聲明就沒有任何的作為來你告訴大家這個聲明有什麼具體的效果"},{"start":181.736,"end":205.737,"text":"這個我們可不可以請檢察局來跟委員報告一下好來 這個聲明到底有什麼具體的效果現在大家看到業者跟詐騙集團勾結的業者拿著有通過你們的聲明來這邊欺騙消費大眾創造自己是一個合法的業者我是一個合法的生意的外觀跟表彰"},{"start":207.763,"end":224.636,"text":"讓更多的人什麼 讓更多的人相信他如果主委認為這不是業者單獨的自我聲明有實際的管制效果那就跟大家報告你實際的管制效果是什麼那我們請我們檢察局局長來跟各位說明一下 謝謝好 請局長"},{"start":225.285,"end":248.482,"text":"好 謝謝 那就是說檢察局在112年檢查這四家的這個這個弊傷比較大的規模這四家弊傷的檢查結果那我們棋局這邊已經做了一個裁罰的部分那至於說等一下 什麼時候做的檢查112年的第四季那我們的檢查報告也都有給這個棋局什麼時候"},{"start":250.396,"end":255.318,"text":"什麼時候做了裁罰在113年的時候113年什麼時候在政經局這邊也有對這四家比較大規模的幣商已經做了這個裁罰罰了多少錢罰了150萬左右罰了150萬喔你們覺得有什麼效果嗎"},{"start":277.022,"end":293.491,"text":"另外也報告委員就是說如果有涉及到我先確認一下剛你說去年有裁判的包括這個碧翔科技嘛對不起碧翔科技是還沒有檢查是今年在114年在這個禮拜一有去派員去對嘛所以我就請你針對問題回答嘛大家看到的是什麼"},{"start":299.995,"end":323.856,"text":"這跟詐騙集團勾結的洗錢集團非常囂張啊在網頁上面啊用通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明在做廣告所以跟我們報告這並不代表說這個東西是我們所以嘛你就大聲的跟台灣社會講嘛通過什麼金管會的洗錢防治聲明不代表什麼啊It's nothing"},{"start":324.383,"end":347.321,"text":"但是我們現在沒有任何的意義但是我們現在已經進入到我們現在去做更嚴謹的登記制的管理我想這部分3月31號截止以後現在有31家來申請我們做嚴格的審查我想這個東西我們對虛擬制裁幣翔有提出申請嗎他有提出申請他在3月30號31號提出你們現在整個審核的過程到哪裡"},{"start":348.241,"end":369.139,"text":"現在就是我們大概已經受理了現在有31家我們會再嚴格來審查他們的條件主席站起來了我最後提醒兩件事第一個當詐騙這麼猖獗當虛擬貨物成為這些詐騙集團洗錢集團的工具的時候希望金管會"},{"start":370.356,"end":398.456,"text":"要有具體的作為這當然是我們現在努力的目標我們現在訂定那個虛擬生產管理專法沒有關係啦就是針對這個東西來處理你們是不是有具體的作為成效怎麼樣社會大眾會看嘛是 我們來努力第二個他現在要跟你們辦洗錢房制的登記嘛是的注意看一下他的負責人之前擔任公司的那個總經理是非法的入資在台灣設立的"},{"start":400.653,"end":428.788,"text":"我現在已經看不懂了早就被抓到了現在這個公司的負責人之前在擔任的是一個非法的入資在台灣設立公司的總經理但是呢暢通無阻繼續搞彷彿毫不設防一點影響都沒有一點影響都沒有這個是現在大家啦"},{"start":429.793,"end":445.038,"text":"沒有辦法理解的事情這是大家沒有辦法理解的事情第二件事情現在這家公司我就看不懂他部分的網站暫停營運部分的網站持續交易監管會有沒有掌握"},{"start":446.876,"end":472.743,"text":"這個我們已經有跟請檢察局跟檢調這邊來處理然後呢現在拿他沒批調沒有我們現在正在處理中正在處理當中啊這不肖的業者關了部分的網站當什麼上演法其他的部分繼續再搞希望金管會速度快一點可以嗎我們這個目標跟委員講是一樣我們一樣要來全力來阻止這件事情好謝謝謝謝國常委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":839,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時53分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請主委。"],["主席：是，主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好。詐騙、洗錢已經成為所有臺灣人的痛，我們從去年開始在處理有關於打詐的四法，整個過程當中，虛擬貨幣成為洗錢的工具早就不是新聞了，這也是為什麼去年的時候，我們不斷地要求行政機關對於虛擬貨幣要採行必要的高度管制，否則的話，這個狀況越來越多人受害。結果沒想到今年最新的狀況是幣想科技跟詐團勾結洗錢，每個月洗錢的金額上億元，發生這個案子了以後，大家開始關心我們虛擬貨幣的管制到底做到什麼樣子的程度。我們下去看，發現荒腔走板到說全臺唯一授權，通過金管會的洗錢防制聲明，這不是笑話嗎？通過金管會的洗錢防制聲明，然後呢？通過金管會的洗錢防制聲明代表什麼意義？可不可以請主委跟社會大眾說明一下？說這個聲明其實毫無意義啦！他們自我聲明、自我表彰，現實上根本沒有辦法發揮任何管制效果。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員說明一下，也趁這個機會謝謝委員提供給我對外說明的機會。金管會過去在行政院的分工下面是指定金管會做投資跟支付目的虛擬資產的主政單位，當然第一步先從洗錢防制開始，所以我們第一步是由他們進行洗防聲明開始，這只是說他們……"],["黃委員國昌：先停一下，這就是我的問題啊！通過了這個洗錢防制聲明，剛剛主委的意思是，這是他們的自我聲明嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們願意做這件事情以後……"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：但是我們現在已經進階到……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有、沒有，主委，不好意思喔！什麼叫做他們願意做這個聲明？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，他們要來申請……"],["黃委員國昌：我做這個聲明毫無代價、毫無成本啊！我出一張嘴啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：在過去的時候，我們對十家進行檢查，也進行裁處、裁罰，我們也不完全只是聲明就沒有任何的作為。"],["黃委員國昌：來，你告訴大家，這個聲明有什麼具體的效果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我可不可以請檢查局來跟委員報告一下。"],["黃委員國昌：好，這個聲明到底有什麼具體的效果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為我們查核到……"],["黃委員國昌：現在大家看到跟詐騙集團勾結的業者拿著你們通過的聲明來欺騙消費大眾，創造自己是一個合法的業者，用一個合法生意的外觀跟表彰讓更多人相信他……"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，所以這就是為什麼要更……"],["黃委員國昌：如果主委認為這不是業者單獨的自我聲明，有實際的管制效果，那就跟大家報告你們實際的管制效果是什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們請檢查局局長來跟各位說明一下，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請局長。"],["賴局長欣國：謝謝，檢查局在112年對四家比較大規模的幣商進行檢查，針對這四家幣商的檢查結果，我們期局這邊已經做了裁罰，至於說……"],["黃委員國昌：等一下，什麼時候做了檢查？"],["賴局長欣國：112年的第四季，我們的檢查報告也都有給期局……"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候做了裁罰？"],["賴局長欣國：在113年的時候。"],["黃委員國昌：113年的什麼時候？"],["賴局長欣國：證期局已經有對四家比較大規模的幣商做了裁罰，相關的……"],["黃委員國昌：罰了多少錢？"],["賴局長欣國：罰了150萬左右。"],["黃委員國昌：罰了150萬喔？"],["賴局長欣國：是。"],["黃委員國昌：你們覺得有什麼效果嗎？"],["賴局長欣國：報告委員，如果有涉及到……"],["黃委員國昌：不是嘛，我先確認一下，剛才你說去年有裁罰的包括幣想科技嘛！"],["賴局長欣國：對不起，幣想科技還沒有檢查，是今（114）年，在這個禮拜一有派員去……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛，所以我就請你針對問題回答。"],["賴局長欣國：是。"],["黃委員國昌：大家看到的是什麼，跟詐騙集團勾結的洗錢集團非常囂張啊，在網頁上面用通過金管會的洗錢防制聲明做廣告。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，所以這並不代表這個東西是我們背書，我們一定要強力的管理。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你就大聲的跟臺灣社會講，通過金管會的洗錢防制聲明不代表什麼啊！It's nothing.沒有任何的意義。"],["彭主任委員金隆：但是我們現在已經進入到做更嚴謹的登記制管理，這部分在3月31號截止以後，現在有31家來申請，我們會做嚴格的審查，我想這個東西我們對虛擬資產……"],["黃委員國昌：幣想有提出申請嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們有提出申請，在3月30號、31號有提出。"],["黃委員國昌：你們現在審核的過程到哪裡？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在我們已經受理的有31家，我們會嚴格審查他們的條件。"],["黃委員國昌：主席站起來了。我最後提醒兩件事，第一個，當詐騙這麼猖獗，虛擬貨物成為這些詐騙集團、洗錢集團的工具時，希望金管會要有具體的作為。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這當然是我們現在努力的目標，我們訂定虛擬資產管理專法就是針對這個東西來處理。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦，你們是不是有具體的作為、成效怎麼樣，社會大眾會看嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我們來努力。"],["黃委員國昌：第二個，他們現在要跟你們辦洗錢防制的登記……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["黃委員國昌：注意看一下，它的負責人之前擔任公司的總經理，他們是非法的陸資在臺灣設立，我現在已經看不懂了，他們早就被抓到了，現在這個公司的負責人是之前擔任非法陸資在臺灣設立公司的總經理，但是暢通無阻、繼續搞，彷彿毫不設防，一點影響都沒有，這個是現在大家沒有辦法理解的事情。第二件事情，現在我就看不懂，這家公司部分網站暫停營運，還有部分網站持續交易，金管會有沒有掌握？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們已經有請檢查局跟檢調這邊來處理。"],["黃委員國昌：然後呢？現在也拿他沒皮條？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我們現在正在處理中。"],["黃委員國昌：正在處理當中啊？這個不肖業者關了部分網站當障眼法，其他的部分繼續再搞，希望金管會速度快一點，可以嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們的目標跟委員講的一樣，我們也一樣要全力阻止這件事情。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。","接著請陳玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","黃珊珊","羅智強","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","羅明才","李坤城","黃國昌","陳玉珍","王世堅","林思銘","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","徐富癸","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「保險法」15案：一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員\n王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人\n分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案；二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第\n一百二十三條之一條文草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等\n19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百\n七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案","agenda_id":"1144301_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}