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in Taiwan就符合補助辦法應該還要再隨時進行檢討我不知道院長對這個有什麼看法"},{"start":2199.222,"end":2224.837,"text":"部長先討論一下,我最後我會中文來,請說跟委員報告目前就是經濟部他有一個專案小組會審核那目前我知道經濟部審核通過的廠商有三家那三家都是做這個電動巴士的廠商那由縣市政府來申請那他可以自由選擇這個經濟部核准的部長因為電動巴士他是一個系統"},{"start":2225.737,"end":2246.159,"text":"他下面有很多單項的產業所以我想說目前的做法OK因為有些像電磁型我們不會做目前的做法是列出10項有這10項這台車就送去本土了然後就可以來領這個最高我該講600多萬的補助款從370到600多萬不等那我是說我們行政院應該更進一步"},{"start":2246.88,"end":2264.413,"text":"交通部經濟部甚至於相關的部會來整合起來這些系統下面的品項下次可不可以變11項12項慢慢的逐步讓這些產業在臺灣他願意在這邊在地生根這是我第一個建議第二個我們可以跟經濟部來一起來我覺得這個要快因為產業的機會稍縱即逝"},{"start":2266.674,"end":2294.607,"text":"這樣前幾年如果沒有國艦國造的話我們台灣的造船業大概現在不知道剩下誰了所以我現在講的另外一個情形是美國在5月份宣布對中國的電動車這講的就不是巴士喔所有的電動車輛科徵100%的反請交稅歐盟7月加徵最高37.6%的反補貼臨時關稅其實也是反請交稅那台灣現在是只有禁止整車進口"},{"start":2296.229,"end":2302.781,"text":"話整為零進來組裝掛台灣品牌的所在多有明明是中國車但在台灣掛台灣品牌"},{"start":2304.233,"end":2328.352,"text":"這些有些業者就會鑽這個漏洞那我要這邊提醒行政院就是中國為什麼被苛徵反請交稅三個原因除了他的安全以及資安問題以外他是用國家的資本就用中國政府的錢巨額去補貼他們的電動車產業然後形成了不對稱的競爭不對等的競爭所以被苛徵反請交稅"},{"start":2329.713,"end":2344.584,"text":"好,現在中國車遭毆滅沒辦法,印度也要趕走,他當然還要找他的市場出路。所以台灣如果不注意這個現象的話,台灣市場可能會變成他,要銷他倉庫,他現在倉庫裡面一堆啊,會變銷扣準的地方。"},{"start":2348.167,"end":2375.567,"text":"對我們的產業發展沒有幫助對台灣的經濟結構也會影響我不知道院長對於中國電動車在歐美這些國家被科徵反請銷稅台灣會不會考慮採取調查我們反請銷稅之前先要經濟部立案調查調查之後成立之後才會訂稅率就中國電動車在台灣現在看得出來有跡象開始在進來化整為零我們行政院跟交通部的態度是什麼"},{"start":2376.407,"end":2386.913,"text":"謝謝委員當然我們有注意到這一點世界上的潮流是在這樣的用關稅來保護自己國人的安全跟整個產業的生存發展那台灣在這種"},{"start":2389.531,"end":2411.561,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":2412.145,"end":2412.165,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":2422.725,"end":2448.026,"text":"他化整為零進來,變成臺灣,他其實是assembled在臺灣組裝,他除了洗產地會不會影響臺灣出口到其他國家的信譽以外,對於臺灣,我再強調一次,汽車產業是系統產業,它裡面有很多不同的系統,這樣子一進來之後,我們原來的業者連發展的機會都沒有,所以行政院經濟部相關的單位應該要開始啟動調查,"},{"start":2449.187,"end":2473.153,"text":"自治率偏低或者根本就是化整為零來這邊組裝鑽漏洞的要開始進行處理你如果不處理的話臺灣的產業會被讓他帶水到他現在讓他出販嘛然後我們自己也不能發展是不是院長可以開始立即處理這件事情好謝謝委員我們已經在了解那今天委員這樣的跟我們提出這樣的建議之後我們會馬上開始執行這樣的調查跟了解"},{"start":2473.833,"end":2501.671,"text":"謝謝,我們請理貿院部長請回我請速發部部長上來你邊走我邊提題目啦速發部成立以後呢我們通過了資通安全管理法修正草案好事因為不管是資安或者數位產業本來就是未來發展也是台灣的強項IT有硬體有軟體但我先請教我們部長你現在就你了解我們的資安相關人員流動率高還是低"},{"start":2503.379,"end":2529.866,"text":"如果以政府部門來講因為外面也蠻多需要人才所以是有些流動流動率其實不低喔那原因除了有外部誘因以外坦白講政府內部的資安人才不會單純因為外面薪資高就出去啦政府還是一個提供安穩就業他可以發展的空間尤其速發部這麼新的部會從各部會把這些資安人才找來他怎麼可能呆呆就跑掉呢我不知道部長就任之後有沒有去盤點這個問題"},{"start":2531.286,"end":2537.955,"text":"我們速發部資安署相關單位成立之後,把各單位的資安人才跑到你這邊來了。"},{"start":2539.416,"end":2563.275,"text":"產生第一個問題,那原來各單位的資安人才補進來了沒?補得好不好?夠不夠專業?這個我覺得院長的高度,因為資安就是國安,資安動輒損失千百億啊。我們書發部一成立,各單位都找來了嘛。那找來之後呢,原來單位空缺的資安人員補的到底是什麼樣的人?這是第一個問題。"},{"start":2564.309,"end":2585.458,"text":"第二個,這個蘇發部的資安人員相關的人才進來之後,業務量跟人員的比例相不相當,跟原來期望一不一樣,正在磨合,因為這是新的步伐。我數位發展、資安正在磨合當中,又新增了很多業務,包含剛才院長揭示的打炸。"},{"start":2586.513,"end":2589.595,"text":"我想一部分對沒有錯啦但是我們也有一些這個新的比如說我們有說新的考試類別"},{"start":2611.63,"end":2634.566,"text":"來多多爭取這個人才。那我們另外也有訓練,包括資安的專職人員的訓練。部長,資安的專業能力除了要新,還要累積經驗。資安人才經驗其實很重要。如果他不斷的走,我又招募新的。經驗不能傳承在單位,我們人才變成是幫人家做新兵訓練。所以我會建議院長跟部長這裡,盤點一下速發部現在的業務跟人員。"},{"start":2639.97,"end":2652.338,"text":"是不是該適度的在不影響總額或者相關的方式下去注意勞役分配的問題。否則一個新的部會還沒有新的發展人員的穩定其實很重要。沒有你新的業務、新的人"},{"start":2654.278,"end":2673.038,"text":"阿三、五、五時又一直換人換人的話,部長不好幹喔,業務也沒辦法推動。所以本期今天用這個題目提醒院長跟部長。接下來我要請教,因為今天時間比較長。我要謝謝卓院長、卓文泰院長就任沒有滿月就來到臺南的歸人沙倫。那天我在那邊我聽得是很感動。"},{"start":2674.379,"end":2697.246,"text":"當時宣布是在沙崙這裡,因為沙崙原來就是綠能、AI、IoT、醫療、生技,大概都在那個區塊。我們那裡不管是成大醫院,或者是像台積電的宿舍訓練人才等等,都在台南高鐵站的後站這個地方蓬勃發展。那你那時候宣布要設置AI園區,就設在這裡。"},{"start":2698.424,"end":2725.51,"text":"那我這一段時間我詢問了各單位到底這個AI園區是啥是有一個園區是有一個項目還是有硬體有產區有產業園區等等我不知道到目前為止院長對歸人這個AI產業園區你的想定是什麼另外呢NVIDIA已經宣布到高雄那台南有沒有機會爭取到比方說像AMD或者國內大廠的投資那是不是請這個院長再要回答一下"},{"start":2726.519,"end":2746.641,"text":"謝謝委員因為沙崙是一個非常我想現在硬體設備非常新穎而且這個充足的一個地方那未來他應該是向外界去招更多的國際廠商跟國內的廠商能夠進駐那AI當然是其中重要的一環因為AI兩個人蘇之鋒跟還原旭都問台南人阿你放台南是明智的啦"},{"start":2747.282,"end":2772.368,"text":"但是現在就是說到底有沒有具體的發展計畫這所謂的AI園區因為我們有硬體設備完成之後我們當然提供最好的條件那因為國科會跟這些國際的廠商這個關係也都很好我國科會的主委啊所以他們正在跟外界在把這個條件散發出去希望他們能夠但是我們也要有戰略的佈局需要多少的廠商進來所以因為時間的關係喔院長我希望具體而明確"},{"start":2773.989,"end":2787.304,"text":"國客會主委我們很尊敬他他是最強的投手所以他也是台南人但我覺得發展要明確那這明確的布局才讓業者說那不是公共的他才會進來那他一旦選擇沒有進來這裡選擇別的地方"},{"start":2789.326,"end":2789.566,"text":"下一位請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":2838.643,"end":2844.526,"text":"謝謝副院長、主席。麻煩有請行政院院長、左院長。請左院長備詢。總委好。總院長好。在開始今天交通署的總諮詢之前,有一件非常重要的事情,我想"},{"start":2862.677,"end":2889.287,"text":"必須要提醒您的注意這件事情是我們的海基會董事長鄭文燦在上個週末的時候500萬元被法院重保交保社壇從法院所發布的新聞稿非常清楚的呈現了他的確有收受500萬元不當的金流"},{"start":2890.728,"end":2915.149,"text":"但這件事情我之所以有必要提醒院長注意也要請教院長是這件事情我們接下來當然就進入司法機關偵辦我們都尊重這個沒有問題但問題是什麼問題是這一個土地開發弊案受賄的情節在2017年9月的時候就已經有監聽議文了"},{"start":2917.791,"end":2935.171,"text":"2017年9月的時候就找到金流了在那個時候就已經要偵辦了為什麼後來案子被壓下來被簽結這件事情很嚴重這個攸關了我國整個司法上的信譽"},{"start":2936.836,"end":2960.525,"text":"為什麼那個時候的案子竟然無疾而終,辦不下去,沒有辦法約談,沒有辦法搜索。院長這件事情你有沒有掌握?謝謝委員,委員心中的這個疑慮啊,我想社會上大家也難免有同樣的想法。那我也認為一個案件,"},{"start":2962.297,"end":2989.377,"text":"這個檢調單位當然有他辦案的速度、步驟、程序等等但是在適當的時間而且在案件沒有被...如果7年以後你認為是適當的時間嗎?我說如果在適當的時間他可以對外或者是進行這個受案的動作的話那對案件的釐清應該是更有幫助的。這個齁除了目前鄭文燦他個人所細數的案件的偵辦以外我今天之所以跟院長提這件事情"},{"start":2990.353,"end":3016.308,"text":"是牽涉到了我們的法務部在處理這個案子的時候第一個有沒有人押案第二個更嚴重的顯然是消息有洩漏所以不到大概過了一年的時間消息有洩漏監聽的內容有洩漏所以鄭文燦匆匆忙忙的把那五百萬還回去這還有洩密的問題啊院長你認為需不需要徹查"},{"start":3018.07,"end":3037.245,"text":"徹查法務部長不是,徹查當初為什麼這個案子被牽結為什麼沒有辦法動當初這個案子為什麼今天天津議員會流出去導致什麼鄭文燦收到風把匯款還回去這些事情不需要查嗎?"},{"start":3038.286,"end":3057.199,"text":"好,我剛剛說除了檢調單位的辦案的程序、步驟之外,民主的台灣應該不會有人要去押一個任何的案子。但是這件事情如果在現在法律的釐清之餘,對過去的處理程序、行政上有沒有必要做檢討,法務部我認為可以去了解。"},{"start":3057.998,"end":3071.845,"text":"法務部有必要去做調查嘛對不對可以去了解過去的這個行政上有沒有任何的我希望這件事情知識體大攸關全民對我國司法信譽跟人民對司法的信任"},{"start":3072.984,"end":3094.798,"text":"法務部有必要要徹查給全體國人一個交代當初這件事情到底是怎麼發生的這個是我今天一開始的時候因為事關重大我覺得有必要要當面跟院長提醒這件事情我們的法務部應該要給社會一個清楚的交代回到今天啊質詢的主題"},{"start":3097.588,"end":3122.982,"text":"我們在討論啊NCC被提名人的時候我們執政黨不斷地強調基於責任的議題基於責任的政治基於行政議題的概念NCC委員應該由行政院院長提名這個才是責任政治的展現嘛臺灣民眾黨黨團我們公開呼籲過好幾次就希望卓榮泰院長能夠跟社會大眾表示對這四位人選"},{"start":3124.079,"end":3148.961,"text":"您到底是知不知恥備不備輸因為這四個不是你提的大家都知道你一開始上任的時候你說你要一些時間去了解我們大家都願意給你時間那了解到今天我們現在的行政院您願不願意幫這四個NCCC被提名的人備輸因為這直接攸關了我們在討論行政議題在討論責任政治的時候我們到底要不要進行實質審查"},{"start":3150.642,"end":3179.566,"text":"這個是不是行政院願意背書的名單?好,兩個事情跟委員報告。第一個,世衛委員我們在最近期間以前有在一一的跟他們詢問,當初拜託他們提名他們的這個過程,現在我們如數的在向立法院來做一個確認,這個要再徵求他們意願,否則時間過這麼久。第二個,我記得應該是6月25號吧,大院的程序委員會誠心就這個提名案,這個同意權,再做一次,不以"},{"start":3180.999,"end":3196.433,"text":"的一個決定,否則在6月底跟7月初的這個院會就能處理。所以這個事情在大院裡面也一直在進行當中。所以他去問了你的立場。你四位談完了以後,現在這四位你是不是都背書?因為這牽涉到"},{"start":3197.634,"end":3226.713,"text":"接下來的審查程序啊,如果這四個被提名人有不適格的狀況的話,到底是誰要負這個行政責任嗎?我相信我這個問題非常公平。現在我的態度是既然6月25號程序委員會,大院的程序委員會曾經就討論過,那就讓這個會議繼續的進行下去。所以你願意幫這四個被提名人背書嗎?基於我們剛剛所講的行政議題責任政治,這是你願意背書的對象嗎?目前我傾向就照原案來做進行。所以這四位你都願意背書嗎?"},{"start":3227.716,"end":3227.938,"text":"提名"},{"start":3229.725,"end":3257.392,"text":"行政院提名是行政院長要負責嘛我們就是不希望把前面行政院長的鍋甩到你身上所以給你善意的給你再一次的機會考慮你願意幫這四位背書我今天在這邊負責任的跟院長報告臺灣民眾黨黨團你只要願意背書我們就支持實質審查你如果覺得你有其他的考慮要重新提名我們也願意支持你的決定現在就看院長你的決定是什麼"},{"start":3258.291,"end":3281.797,"text":"第二因為我說大院還在進行相關的程序而且四位被提名人的意願我們現在為止沒有明確的跟過去大大的不同所以我們就按照原來的四位再請大院來進行相關程序這個問題喔我想來來回回詢大家了這麼多次我應該可以認為說你願意幫這四位背書沒有問題吧就繼續下去是嗎好"},{"start":3283.393,"end":3297.042,"text":"接下來黨戰軍退出媒體還是不是民進黨的價值當然是當然是嘛好但問題是在具體的實踐上有沒有做到我相信社會都有一把尺啦"},{"start":3298.064,"end":3317.287,"text":"現在到底是黨政軍退出媒體還是黨政軍就是媒體這件事情每一個公民心裡都有一把尺但我不喜歡談抽象的事情我喜歡談具體的事情我去年回到立法院之前我就直接公開質疑過這件事情我們"},{"start":3319.215,"end":3334.036,"text":"有我們的電視新聞台竟然可以去入主可以去入主這麼大的中加有線電視系統跨越了反媒體壟斷的紅線我當初提出所有的證據"},{"start":3335.185,"end":3352.325,"text":"指正立例那個時候也有不同黨派的立法委員在立法院關心這件事情我們的NCC經過調查確認當初檢舉的內容是真實無誤的是真實無誤的但我們大家就在懷疑一件事情"},{"start":3353.166,"end":3370.66,"text":"今天一個跨越反媒體壟斷紅線做了不應該做的事情的三立集團為什麼這件事情NCC已經徹查認為確有其事但是三立卻沒有受到任何的處罰院長你覺得這樣對嗎"},{"start":3372.176,"end":3392.857,"text":"是不是請NCC說明?好,跟委員說明一下齁,這個案子來講是3億的股東的投資,所以這個案子我們查,就程度剛才委員所講的,他目前這個投資的股東...不是3億的股東啦,就是他們的董事長張榮華嘛,就講白話文就好了嘛。所以就是股東嘛,所以我們現在已經命期把這個相關的股份處分掉嘛。"},{"start":3393.257,"end":3407.356,"text":"處分掉了嗎?我先給你釐清一個概念做出違法行為的人是三立或者是你要講張榮華也可以但為什麼他沒有得到任何處罰?"},{"start":3408.537,"end":3409.839,"text":"這是社會大眾的疑慮嗎?你認為這種行為應不應該處罰?"},{"start":3426.596,"end":3452.812,"text":"明明就知道紅線在那裡明明就知道NCC的付款不允許做這件事還執意去做還欺騙NCC被抓到了以後沒有任何處罰這樣對嗎問題是說在法律授權上我們現在沒有辦法現在我問你的是你認為這個行為該不該處罰該處罰但是要有法律依據好這件事情你講過了所以我今天特別請教你你說"},{"start":3454.212,"end":3473.432,"text":"要修衛廣法我等了好幾個月草案在哪裡草案還在我們會裡面什麼時候可以申得出來委員我們現在基本上來講是換屆當中啦所以說你說所以這個是下一屆NCC委員的鍋就對了不是鍋的問題而是這個本來是個延續的這個事情拖得越久"},{"start":3474.417,"end":3488.213,"text":"就不就讓這些媒體大亨可以逍遙越久沒有要拖的問題而是說什麼時候可以提出來下一屆NCC委員才知道來請教院長院長您認為這麼重要的法案什麼時候應該提出來"},{"start":3490.077,"end":3505.152,"text":"我會先了解現在通常會進行的草案內容那交下一屆的新政經濟委員的時候我們會把這個列為優先請他優先法案嘛我希望下個會期優先法案因為我們也有提出衛廣法的修法"},{"start":3506.035,"end":3527.396,"text":"我們除了要去制裁這種明知道紅線在哪裡,跨越紅線,對他卻毫無處罰這種惡質的媒體之外,我們還希望股權要透明,補助要透明,財務要透明,要接受社會公眾的監督,這三個原則院長是不是支持?"},{"start":3529.472,"end":3556.661,"text":"這個大的原則當然是往這個方向那再收集更多更各方的意見我們把它弄為一個比較完善的修法沒有關係啊院長承諾這是優先法案我們下個會期啊拭目以待賴慶德總統說啊打仗、掃黑、樹灘是政府的重要任務院長同不同意當然是我們在事安會報的時候就提出這樣的一個決心好但大家現在覺得很困惑的是什麼被查獲的"},{"start":3558.356,"end":3583.3,"text":"害人無數不法詐欺吸金所的20幾億的王牌交易所就竟然跟我們的三立集團在洗錢的網絡當中有一個遺傳公司不僅是設立在三立的大樓裡面甚至什麼這家公司也不只是跟三立合資他的監察人還是三立派的"},{"start":3584.892,"end":3607.326,"text":"我們過去在討論打詐的時候是說網路上有很多不實的資訊大家不要相信那不實的資訊要求網路平台業者要去除不實的資訊結果現在什麼在幫詐欺集團散播假新聞讓無辜的社會大眾去買那些垃圾的虛擬貨幣"},{"start":3609.076,"end":3611.177,"text":"這不是媒體揭露啦 這個是我檢舉的啦"},{"start":3631.493,"end":3654.872,"text":"那謝謝委員的辛苦那我們會依照法律來處理這件事情那也請依照我們的打詐依照什麼法律怎麼處理講清楚不要講空話依照法律處理我當然贊成嘛但人民要看到的是什麼人民要看到政府不是打詐不是口號是行動你要依據什麼法律怎麼處理請教委員長"},{"start":3656.338,"end":3682.476,"text":"現在當然法務部也好內政部也好他們都有相關的來處理這些事情那整個過程當中現在在進行當中我也不宜多講阿我現在跟院長報告一件事啦不是叫進行當中這叫已經進行結束了檢察官已經起訴了偵查終結了在起訴的犯罪事實裡提到了這個一賺公司在這個詐欺洗錢的網絡當中"},{"start":3684.141,"end":3711.441,"text":"但是提到了這個公司在這個詐欺洗錢的網絡當中然後呢?然後就沒有然後這是為什麼?這是為什麼我要沒有起訴怎麼會有法院的程序?院長你也幫幫忙檢察官要起訴法院才能審判檢察官沒有處理法院要判什麼啊?我希望喔法務部這要追查下去但我為什麼在交通組處理這件事情這個是有線電視新聞台"},{"start":3713.229,"end":3735.702,"text":"這是拿到國家特許的欸!NCC要怎麼處理?跟委員說明,我們現在在處理當中的,在行政調查這個有沒有,剛剛委員所講的,在個案裡面來講的話有沒有事實查證,或是這個沒變成有所謂詐欺的這個手段,這個,三立政論節目跟詐團的假新聞平台,強強聯手!"},{"start":3737.683,"end":3755.668,"text":"這個Potato Media是詐欺集團裡面網絡的一份子,這不是我說的。這個是檢察官說的。這是內容農場。這是整個詐騙集團他們成立的公司。詐騙集團成立的內容農場跟三立合作,這件事情NCC要查多久?還需要多久?"},{"start":3763.277,"end":3763.297,"text":"謝謝黃委員"},{"start":3791.556,"end":3814.752,"text":"下一位請羅明才委員質詢。主席江峰院長、行政院卓院長及各部會首長。麻煩主席請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":3823.581,"end":3852.079,"text":"各位好。台湾啊,現在大家覺得大概有三多啊。第一個,詐騙多。第二個,到南部啊,常常感覺治安不好,開槍多。第三個,就是台灣的媒體啊,壟斷得非常的厲害,很多偏頗的情況。"},{"start":3853.271,"end":3863.288,"text":"面對這三多啊,不曉得卓院長,你要如何大刀闊斧的改善?謝謝委員,我們都發現同樣的問題,所以我們的"},{"start":3867.271,"end":3884.44,"text":"午打期間裡面這個都大概包含在內前面兩個部分一個就是打詐還有就是黑金槍的問題黑金槍賭詐都包括在裡面了那打詐的部分我們已經希望說一方面希望通過打詐事法第二邊我們打詐中心我們請數位數發部"},{"start":3887.222,"end":3908.203,"text":"請法務部請內政部全面在進行打詐目前對於名人利用名人來打詐的事情來詐騙的事情有了初步的一個發展但是不夠徹底再來就是希望數法數位部能夠提供一個大家可以上去一個平台讓大家去詢問這個事件這個訊息是真是假"},{"start":3908.743,"end":3924.458,"text":"那這個也一定會在這幾個月當中來上路那另外就是打詐的中心我們希望他能夠更精進現在的作為能夠把案件能夠一一的誠實的落實出來讓相關的這個單位來做更多的這個追"},{"start":3925.299,"end":3954.862,"text":"追索這個部分同時銀行也要對金融的體系跟手續來做完整這是打仗那槍的部分我們在今天開始就會執行全國同步的掃黑跟貪賭的這個行動專案那希望能夠持續進行下去接續從6月25號開始的綠能掃黑專案貪賭專案一樣能夠一直進行下去希望我們用展現最大的決心同時早上我們邀請各部會的首長我希望能夠做一個更整體的概念"},{"start":3955.422,"end":3982.695,"text":"向人民宣示現在政府兩大主軸一個是經濟發展一個是維持治安兩處同時來進行希望這三多可以完全降低消滅掉我們全力的努力台灣人民好生活昨天我們看到臺南漁會的林理事長居然在家裡的門口被槍擊"},{"start":3984.397,"end":3984.657,"text":"當然知道 知道"},{"start":3993.581,"end":4017.514,"text":"那什麼原因啊?現在看起來這是一個有計劃性的,比如說清晨就在家門口堵人,而且車輛經過這樣轉轉之後,車輛還把它燒掉,而且用不同的交通工具等等,這是一個有計劃的、縝密性的工作。也因為如此,現在我們的整個專案小組是全面在展開宿醉當中。怎麼這幾年啊,這些槍擊事件都發生在台南,究竟台南發生了什麼事情?"},{"start":4023.935,"end":4023.955,"text":"院長"},{"start":4040.114,"end":4066.272,"text":"現在我們是不排除任何可能也不假設任何狀況到底是什麼因素什麼原因發生的現在是全面在搜查當中包括所有的關係人等等已經全面展開這跟那個太陽光電有沒有關係啊就是我不排除任何可能但是也不設定任何特定的一個事件這樣我們查的範圍檢調單位查的範圍才會周延廣泛那具體能夠迅速來找到這個行為人"},{"start":4067.967,"end":4093.351,"text":"我想這是冰山一角啦因為冰凍三尺非一日之寒我發現這個問題錯綜複雜可是院長如果你遇到有夠力的人士不管在媒體方面或是政治勢力方面你敢不敢查"},{"start":4095.305,"end":4124.643,"text":"只要是我職責在內,而且對人民有利的,我想委員可以信得過我。好,那希望你第一個就是勿往勿重。第二個,你的肩膀要夠硬。希望不要有其他的因素來影響你該做正式的這個機會。另外剛剛講的,就是台灣的媒體啊,院長有沒有覺得現在的媒體是"},{"start":4125.953,"end":4153.118,"text":"有被壟斷的情況我覺得媒體應該忠實的報導事實的真相自己的立場你可以用分析的方式但是不代表新聞就新聞的處理應該讓人民知道事實的真相的權利這個應該權利的維護那經過這麼多年台灣民主的發展我們對媒體已經有相當嚴格的要求但是我希望媒體能夠把自己的立場放在"},{"start":4154.475,"end":4182.787,"text":"後面把事實真相呈現出來媒體應該是非常重要的公器那應該心裡都有一把尺可是現在的台灣的情況變得很糟糕藍的就看藍的頻道綠的就喜歡看綠的頻道這樣不好啊這樣很不好吧對不對實在在變我們希望媒體他有他的公權力他可以教化人心嘛"},{"start":4183.737,"end":4209.85,"text":"而不是現在的這個頻道一打開來喔院長不曉得你有沒有在看電視的習慣我看到現在我都不看了因為不是狗咬人啊就是狗咬狗啊不然就是交通事故每天報的報這個這什麼新聞啊能不能拜託院長啊新聞的素質可不可以提升一點啊你像日本像歐美國家"},{"start":4211.735,"end":4239.639,"text":"他們的一些內容啊有國際觀可是現在的媒體啊有的為了要省錢啊他就隨便亂七八糟在報講難聽點有的東西就好像台灣的八點檔一樣那個老人家或者家庭婦女啊每天看每天看我偶爾我也看啊陪我媽媽看可是看了半天啊"},{"start":4240.826,"end":4267.59,"text":"啊這個劇情演了10年20年還是一樣就是婆媳吵架啊不然就是什麼車子被撞什麼醫院的問題在演都是演這個這些東西啊低價的廉價的這個成本這樣子好嗎是不是政府啊應該給予一些獎勵讓他們做一些好的片子嘛比如說像以前的"},{"start":4268.732,"end":4269.653,"text":"政府用力來支持韓國的影音。"},{"start":4295.643,"end":4300.363,"text":"到處的韓團啊還有很多的影片啊都賣到全世界"},{"start":4301.56,"end":4329.19,"text":"這方面是不是行政院有什麼想法可以改變?其實最近很多的台劇也引起一份的台流啦。他跟這個大的平台合作也製造出不少相當多的快智人口的影片出來也大家都非常的喜歡。那現在希望說這樣的一個風氣這個製作的水準內容能夠引到我們國內的電視台來從內置的節目上大家來做精進再做一份的進步。"},{"start":4329.98,"end":4344.825,"text":"因為文化到底是國家的軟實力我們看到韓流看到這個能夠大舉的向全世界去發展那台灣應該也有這個實力我想二三十年前台灣的歌曲音樂在亞洲地區都是"},{"start":4346.306,"end":4348.208,"text":"謝謝院長可以關心這一塊與其八千八百億亂亂花"},{"start":4372.81,"end":4399.904,"text":"倒不如把一些錢、資金、資源公正地用來推廣所謂的影音還有一些媒體的這個自律希望院長可以找到一個好的方式讓臺灣這個環境大家住得安心看所有的影片或者是看新聞的時候看得不要觸目驚心好不好好的謝謝那因為這交通質詢"},{"start":4401.298,"end":4423.193,"text":"對於現在AI的發展我們現在拭目以待台灣未來的自駕車或是無人駕駛這一塊不曉得已經做好準備沒我們什麼時候會在台北市可以看到無人駕駛的這個汽車讓人民可以很方便的來使用大概什麼時候可以上路"},{"start":4424.056,"end":4441.7,"text":"我們從傳統的燃油車現在進行進步到這個電動車電動車裡面就有分好幾個不同level的一個自駕的一個程序那台這個應該我們全國各地還有一些試驗場大概什麼時候會很普遍的在台北市的"},{"start":4442.185,"end":4443.106,"text":"五年還看不到?"},{"start":4467.349,"end":4495.428,"text":"目前我覺得可能還要先從比較保守或是說比較封閉型的場域看起來沒有那麼快啦所以在捷運的推動方面我想應該要加快速度比如說本席最關心的捷運延伸至深坑未來接到實定這個喊了快12年了到現在"},{"start":4497.361,"end":4521.654,"text":"還沒開始動工,院長可不可以關心一下,因為不論立任的縣長、市長大家都支持,包括蘇貞昌以前蘇縣長,包括侯友宜侯市長,沒有人反對,大家都激起在推動,所以這個部分是不是可以加快腳步?"},{"start":4522.672,"end":4549.881,"text":"這應該是現在可行性的研究新北市政府在提出當中那所以說預留後面那一段到時定的這個過程應該這個內容還要做相當的修正那請交通部來詳細說我補充一下其實就是在時定交流道那邊做一個轉運中心所以我們發現現在去這個國五到宜蘭堵車都堵得很厲害那同萬節等等都堵得很厲害每個禮拜六禮拜天"},{"start":4550.899,"end":4571.828,"text":"所以我們鼓勵大家多多來搭乘大眾捷運進來臺北城市的時候就是在時定的交流道那邊就當一個轉運站車輛不要再進到臺北市了所以本席一直提出了這個構想也希望院長部長可以支持"},{"start":4572.492,"end":4599.972,"text":"目前深坑輕軌正在可行性的評估那今年有先有一些審查意見給新北市新北市還在修正那如果送上來我們就會依程序來協助他們市長123456789我們地方還要等多久你可能要去催新北市他還沒生出來那是不是改天我約一下新北市侯市長跟你一起見個面"},{"start":4601.704,"end":4627.304,"text":"把事情講完再下班。一次就解決啦。這樣不是更快嗎?你覺得只要地方政府規劃送上來,我們就會全力來協助?因為深坑啊,這個地方很漂亮。它也是整個大台北都會區的後花園。其實,就長遠來看,早做完做不如早點做,也比較省錢啊。比如說你看看,我們的捷運環狀線,南段,到現在,"},{"start":4631.161,"end":4658.866,"text":"做的這個進度怎麼樣?聽說又延宕了現在南北環都在施工的階段目前都已經發包施工南環因為是經過我的選區新店、政大這個地方那現在有沒有遇到什麼困難目前了解是有順利發包那也在積極的這個在施工如果10年前做就比較省一點現在物價飆漲很可惜"},{"start":4659.693,"end":4684.766,"text":"另外一個基隆捷運還有捷運汐止名聲線的問題同樣是捷運我在新店那個地方安坑清軌都已經完工開始通車了也非常感謝我們交通部還有所有相關人員做得很好你看過20年過了汐止還在那邊空喊說這個汐止名聲線"},{"start":4686.309,"end":4711.328,"text":"也跟委員報告矽東縣主要是當時它是跟矽紫民生縣掛在一起但是臺北市當時它對矽紫民生縣有一些疑慮因為都有一些問題所以後來大家有達成交通部跟我們新北市政府大家達成共識有問題就是要寫條克服那因為本席來自地方也拜託院長關心一下安城快速道路的這個興建"},{"start":4712.247,"end":4712.367,"text":"謝謝董委員"},{"start":4738.685,"end":4740.534,"text":"謝謝院長。下一位請吳啟明委員質詢。"},{"start":4773.178,"end":4782.06,"text":"主席一位媒體我們請行政院長與交通部長請行政院長交通部長備詢吳委員好 委員長好 部長好辛苦了我們新的執政團隊新氣象在各項的經濟指標都有突出的表現"},{"start":4803.928,"end":4832.02,"text":"在這近半年臺股的指示現在我早上看已經將近兩萬四千點了這時候臺灣的股市是52年來最新高臺灣的股票市值已經在全球排名已經第15了那靜電視民調顯示我們卓院長的滿意度也將近五成了恭喜卓院長尤其我們富國神山臺積電"},{"start":4833.345,"end":4848.481,"text":"的半導體的技術領先全球,會替臺灣帶來可觀的稅收。各項的福國利民政策會讓民眾的生活更加的有感,讓執政黨的滿意度會穩定的領先。對此國家應該好好"},{"start":4851.744,"end":4869.928,"text":"更好的條件來做復古立民做出更多的努力。本席這邊跟院長提出的討論首先我們國人的驕傲黃仁軒在6月來台也掀起了AI的先鋒並且有意在台灣繼續設立研發中心"},{"start":4872.589,"end":4896.552,"text":"過去選舉期間我也提出了土城三峽AI的科技廊道在政見裡掛出許多的看板地方的民眾對這項的政策也相當的期待我身為土城三峽民意代表選出來也向院長推薦土城有工業區的基礎加上許多科技的廠商也都在土城"},{"start":4897.182,"end":4925.415,"text":"然後土城三峽許多的國有地可以來提供這8年來的努力在土城三峽的交通基礎建設可以說發展的快速。未來我們的捷運、山陰縣、阪南縣、萬大縣的共構還有土城的交流道、京城的交流道已經開始動工。未來六、五的延伸快速道路要成為北部的科技園區"},{"start":4926.462,"end":4928.763,"text":"﹚三、7月5日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚完整會議"},{"start":4952.728,"end":4979.942,"text":"就是我們的北側以及南側那北側呢那現在我們的司法園區有84公頃那我們這個南側這一邊有將近100公頃就是以前土城的彈藥庫土城這個地方的彈藥庫那未來呢因為我們要推動我們的AI科技產業那一定要找我們國家的土地"},{"start":4980.162,"end":5005.674,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":5006.406,"end":5007.007,"text":"委員一開始講關於臺灣的經濟的發展"},{"start":5023.7,"end":5046.869,"text":"我們都知道這是全國人民共同的努力政府該做的就是維護國家的安全讓成熟的民主政治更往健全的方向去發展另外兩件很重要的是我們要接得住世界的潮流也要穩定的對我們的基礎建設做全面的開發如果做到這點那全國人民努力之下就會得到更好的成果那至於說"},{"start":5048.25,"end":5072.077,"text":"國際的大廠要到台灣到哪裡設置任何的一個大型的開發我們都非常的歡迎但是也要符合我們的整個戰略的佈局跟我們的整體發展的目標那現在委員所提出的這個AI的旋風當然是很少全台灣我想各地包括每位委員在這裡都會為自己的選區自己的所在地提出很多的希望跟期待"},{"start":5072.757,"end":5097.373,"text":"那至於剛剛委員所提到的這個司法園區的部分目前我所知道已經開始在辦理這個區段徵收工程的作業當中那是不是它未來有進一步的發展的這個可能性我想這個地方的整個包括中央地方的合作努力應該要再做進一步那用這個來吸引更多的這個國際大廠來投資對地方絕對就是一個好的發展"},{"start":5098.322,"end":5117.187,"text":"好的跟院長報告還有部長因為土城這個地方早期我們土城工業區包括鴻海一些科技大廠都在土城那現在土城的房價大家都知道已經都上漲尤其廠商他們要取得土地都不容易"},{"start":5118.257,"end":5118.277,"text":"委員長"},{"start":5134.147,"end":5134.307,"text":"﹚發言委員"},{"start":5157.854,"end":5182.89,"text":"南側這一邊有將近100公頃那100公頃我們未來可以好好的去規劃因為那都是我們國有地占的比例最高那我們這來推動的話我相信包含他們AI的研發中心也可以來進駐在新北的土城山峽這個地方所以這一點我也拜託院長是不是找我們相關單位來做研議"},{"start":5184.493,"end":5209.614,"text":"這個會再跟經濟部請他們來做研議因為南側的土地目前還是屬於非都市計畫土地所以他還要再經過都市計畫的這個檢討跟變更所以程序上還要再進行那如果說地方有需要產業有需要說目的是事業主管機關認為這個應該朝向更有利土地發展的利用發展的這個方向去那我們會請經濟部再跟地方再跟委員來做一些"},{"start":5210.51,"end":5227.404,"text":"了解那進行以後但怎麼進行那希望我們中央跟新北市大家來合作來推動好謝謝那再來剛才我所講到的就是因為我們地方要推動整個一個產業產業鏈的聯結合那我"},{"start":5231.28,"end":5258.39,"text":"首先我們那個交通的問題我們還是要解決因為土城跟三峽這邊的人口密集度現在成長速度非常快那成長速度非常快尤其在六五的延伸在六五的延伸不管是三峽這邊已經列入我們的優先路段尤其我跟院長跟部長報告"},{"start":5260.026,"end":5285.434,"text":"因為三峽尤其是在北大北大在兩年前兩年前4萬7千多人那目前短短兩年的時間又暴增了到6萬多人那目前新北市又規劃了麥子岩這個地段又要做重劃還有士林跟大甘園地區這邊也要推動重劃區"},{"start":5287.395,"end":5301.892,"text":"那只有靠國道3號那國道3號就造成整個車流量都非常擁擠那所以我說六五的延伸我早期還跟公共工程會我們的吳主委"},{"start":5302.672,"end":5331.705,"text":"要求相關單位來做研議早期那時候得到我們公路總局的席可在111年1月30號上網招標可行性評估作業在4月30號結標6月27號召開會議辦理可行性初期報告審查作業所以這是我們交通部依據在明年114年3月提出其中"},{"start":5332.506,"end":5343.54,"text":"報告請我要拜託部長是不是65這一條沿線能夠抓住一定要順利的推動好不好請部長你來說明"},{"start":5344.551,"end":5365.992,"text":"我想這個是非常重要的一條快速道路因為現在從龍潭一直到土城甚至到中和的北二高都非常容易塞車那在上下班的時候是塞車的狀況很嚴重所以如果能夠平行這個北二高來興建一條這個板龍快速道路我覺得對整個交通疏解很有幫助"},{"start":5366.452,"end":5377.461,"text":"那現在當然還有一些技術上要去克服我想我們這個可行性評估會盡快來辦理而且這條快速道路也列為桃竹廟大細股一個重要的交通建設的一環"},{"start":5379.041,"end":5407.019,"text":"謝謝部長,那部長你就很清楚吧因為我們這都是短程那短程他們對外的交通就要靠國道3號那國道3號你常常國道3號你再要怎樣拖關還是不過用那唯一的辦法就是推動這6565的快速道路那你短程你就把土城三峽列為優先路段這樣你就可以解決很多車流量的擁塞的問題"},{"start":5408.612,"end":5422.798,"text":"那他現在可能需要去處理的就是要跟很多的提防怎麼樣共構那跟水利單位的一個協調那這個部分需要一些時間來趕快把它付出那我也跟部長提醒尤其在我們土城工業區還有這一條甘寧橋過來"},{"start":5429.008,"end":5430.228,"text":"那再來就是我再請部長"},{"start":5452.045,"end":5465.627,"text":"因為我在上個會期在我們王國才部長我也要求過就在三峽在我們三峽在2020年也獲得我們交通部列為經典的小鎮"},{"start":5467.301,"end":5486.801,"text":"那我們三峽的商圈我們現在在推動這個長湖橋長湖橋就是當初我跟水利署要求經位然後我們的三峽河的整治然後再三峽再過去就是三峽老街還有祖師廟那邊的觀光人潮我們列為經典小鎮"},{"start":5487.261,"end":5504.514,"text":"﹚"},{"start":5504.654,"end":5521.581,"text":"正餘款我們當初編了260億我們還現在還有剩餘款要是我們新北市同意列為排序在前面我們交通部這邊原則上他是支持的那現在部長又換了我們部長現在你對這個案子會不會繼續來推動來支持"},{"start":5528.372,"end":5556.069,"text":"目前我們的了解這個交通部已經完成這個初審那麼而且在新北市也是排第一那審查完以後這個案子也是在整個新北排序是最優先所以目前最近他會運用結議款會來提報那什麼時候?重點應該是今年的這一兩個月就會來做進步那現在7月了那下個月可不可以"},{"start":5557.339,"end":5577.23,"text":"可不可以核定我這個時間是我會後再跟您報告比較明確的時間因為真的不要跳票因為怎樣關係到整個三峽三峽的觀光產業三峽現在是最主要是靠的觀光觀光的產業你來到三峽你一定要有具備的停車場不然你三峽在那邊整個交通都癱瘓"},{"start":5578.531,"end":5605.243,"text":"所以這個停車場是一個重中之重這我們政府一定要重視那因為新北市也是非常的重視這個停車場所以這也要拜託部長引落我們將這個經費趕快來做核定因為我也知道這個經費很多5.78億那我們中央補助的是2.7億那這一點我就要拜託部長了"},{"start":5606.956,"end":5632.992,"text":"這隊不要跳票好不好可以吧是我們會全力來支持好謝謝謝謝謝謝部長好那部長還有一點就是我們針對我們的山陵縣明年就要通車了嘛那山陵縣在還有就是我們的萬大縣萬大縣在107年我跟吳秉慧、蘇巧慧我們三位委員共同的爭取在555億的前瞻經費"},{"start":5636.641,"end":5664.527,"text":"那現在555億,現在你知道疫情過後,原物料缺乏,工資會漲,所以我們所編的預算也不夠,那現在的缺口又少了220億,現在總共來到770億,那本時想拜託我們交通部這邊,是不是趕快來審議,讓我們這個捷運萬大線,能早日通車,是不是這個部分請部長來做說明好不好?"},{"start":5666.772,"end":5683.554,"text":"是,我想因為現在確實是有原物料上漲像過去我們在編這個建築工程以前都是一坪編大概10萬塊現在實際上的建築成本大概一坪要22萬以上所以確實是有倍增的一個狀況"},{"start":5684.475,"end":5696.643,"text":"那也因此很多原來之前編的計畫現在在執行發包以後或是在實際執行上配合這個物條可能都需要調整經費那我們只要會好謝謝,謝謝部長那議長還有時間的關係社會事務部長"},{"start":5711.097,"end":5714.899,"text":"好,謝謝吳委員。下一位請葉元之委員質詢。院長,麻煩請卓院長,謝謝。"},{"start":5741.194,"end":5762.949,"text":"委員長請教一下今天大家國人非常關心昨天在台南發生那個零四節槍擊案我想問一下目前來講行政院有沒有請警政署一定要召開專案會議然後要趕快破案有沒有"},{"start":5764.485,"end":5765.606,"text":"現在大概掌握的是什麼方向?是配套的關係還是利益還是什麼關係?"},{"start":5788.983,"end":5804.882,"text":"對任何的可能性我們都不排除,但是我們也不去假設特別的狀況,這樣這個面才會出來。還不曉得就對了,還在追查中。我只能這樣回答,任何的可能性都不排除。大概有沒有下達一個什麼,多久要破案,就是讓國人有點信心。"},{"start":5805.72,"end":5805.94,"text":"好,謝謝院長"},{"start":5823.554,"end":5851.478,"text":"上禮拜二剛好我在教育質詢的時候那時候你有承諾我嘛有關於中共介入政論節目這個議題你說如果案情沒有太複雜的話一個禮拜要給國人交代啦那因為今天剛好一個禮拜上禮拜二到這禮拜二不知道這個事情目前查得怎麼樣上禮拜已經正式說這個調查局在立案調查當中對那時候是說要破案啦就是要跟大家講說到底有沒有這件事因為大家現在看政論節目很緊張嘛都不知道是不是被滲透啊"},{"start":5853.56,"end":5877.79,"text":"雖然在調查當中,我只能就程序上在調查,我沒有去了解他調查的內容﹖所以沒有辦法在一個禮拜之內告訴大家﹖那可見案情不是那麼﹖因為你上禮拜二跟我講的﹖案情沒有那麼不單純﹖所以案情很複雜的﹖我認為他們所以還在調查當中﹖案情非常複雜,但是院長雖然你說案情很複雜,但NCC好像沒有做什麼事,我想問一下NCC對於這個案件有做什麼嗎?"},{"start":5878.65,"end":5901.569,"text":"跟委員報告一下這個時間第一時間發生的時候來講因為當相關的媒體並沒有指明是哪一個特定的節目所以我們第一個先那你有去問相關媒體嗎沒有我們通案式的處理你連問都沒有問沒有沒有我們通案式的處理請這個媒體的相關公學會寫什麼叫通案式處理就是說我們會我們發函給公學會去讓公學會了解說這個是相關的法尊的問題對好"},{"start":5903.21,"end":5931.273,"text":"昨天你們也有來立法院委員會我看你們報告院長問一下NCC這樣的態度你能不能接受他說他們就發函給工協會比如說中華民國廣電工會學會等等學會表示對於會員所作所為不瞭解NCC結案院長你可以接受NCC這樣的態度嗎NCC你知道現在被指涉的電視台是哪一家你知道嗎"},{"start":5932.485,"end":5959.78,"text":"你知道嗎?根據昨天的媒體的報導來講的話是陸委會講的根據哪一間你不用講哪一間是東森新聞東森你昨天才知道我不是NCC我不是NCC喔我在這個媒體報導的當天我就知道了為什麼因為我沒有去打聽嘛有多少證據講多少話不好意思主委我沒有跟你講話我跟院長講話你是院長嗎我跟院長講話"},{"start":5960.72,"end":5981.905,"text":"我在當天我們就問了就說到底是哪一家人家說東森為什麼人家知道東森因為東森都有出具自由時報跟他們去求證的簡訊所以大家都知道東森結果我不是NCC我不是媒體主管機關我都知道結果媒體主管機關NCC昨天聽陸委會講才知道"},{"start":5982.805,"end":6010.604,"text":"院長,這種NCC你可以接受嗎?他是媒體的主管機關喔!而且當時大家把這個事情講得很嚴重喔!結果NCC昨天聽陸委會長才知道!院長你可以接受這麼蠻攤的NCC嗎?主委不是這個意思,請容許喔!是不是那個意思無所謂,我現在是說他昨天才知道那家電視台是哪一家,你可以接受嗎?我們還是以有公平的機關為主。我問院長啊!我問院長!"},{"start":6013.667,"end":6028.981,"text":"我相信主委不是這個意思但是也請容許我們的部委首長對任何的事件發生過程當中採取比較謹慎的方式來發言剛剛主委的意思我都聽得非常清楚他昨天聽陸委會長才知道我覺得非常滿憨因為當時跟院長報告"},{"start":6032.705,"end":6047.127,"text":"在自由時報報導這個新聞的當天民進黨黨團就開記者會你知道他的記者會的主題是什麼嗎你知道嗎你不知道我講給你聽他說中共黑手介入台灣媒體下一句叫做"},{"start":6048.669,"end":6072.81,"text":"藍白立法架空NCC什麼意思呢就是這個事情這麼嚴重嚴重到說NCC一定要來處理而藍白很可惡居然在卡NCC讓NCC不能來處理這個是民進黨黨團當天媒體報導的態度所以民進黨黨團對於NCC寄予厚望認為NCC就是要處理這件案子最重要的機關結果今天這個事情發生這麼久以後"},{"start":6074.315,"end":6100.589,"text":"主委昨天才知道是東森電視台代表什麼?代表他連查都沒有查嘛就是聊貝伊格嘛官樣文章嘛發個文問相關工協會叫相關工協會去問一下你們的會員請你普發給所有會員看看有沒有會員自己承認他們有幹這個事情如果沒有我就可以交差啦我就可以沒事了然後最後推給減掉就沒有NCC的事情了"},{"start":6101.429,"end":6127.281,"text":"院長這是你的NCC主委的態度欸我覺得他不是這個樣子我們第一時間就有看相關包括東森自己在這個關鍵時刻的節目都有提到這個問題那你剛剛講說你昨天聽我會講的陸委會是公權力機關我們做行政調查上次以公權力機關的說法為主對啦那你沒有調查的嘛重點是說你也沒有調查嗎你不要插話好不好我沒有插話每一次來我這邊總之君我找院長"},{"start":6128.321,"end":6151.568,"text":"質詢你就要一直插話那等你當院長的時候我來質詢你嘛你又不是院長我有請主委回答院長那也是要我要請因為我現在在跟你對話阿如果總質詢你都一直找他那你就總機阿對不對我就找你因為我尊重你阿我覺得你會處理事情跟NCC主委不一樣阿所以我們才跟你對話不然跟他對話他都一直插話講些言不及義的浪費我的時間我才15分鐘了"},{"start":6152.894,"end":6174.962,"text":"所以NCC主委這種蠻憨態度所以證明一件事情民進黨當時記者會把NCC過獄了啦把NCC講得過於重要好不好NCC根本沒在幹嘛那接下來院長我就要來問你NCC的事情那這件事情跟主委無關可不可以請主委先行休息好謝謝"},{"start":6176.052,"end":6202.043,"text":"因為NCC有四個委員在7月31號就要卸任了嘛對不對按照NCC組織法的規定如果這四位委員新的委員到時候沒有經過立法院通過原來四個委員可以延任嘛對吧院長規定是這樣對不對是好那現在因為行政院送來的四個新的委員立法院一直沒有排審嘛是那院長你知道原因是什麼嗎"},{"start":6208.141,"end":6231.894,"text":"我跟院長講一下好不好因為你要按照規定送來立法院立法院要審嘛對不對總是想要知道一下卓榮泰院長你對這四個委員的態度是什麼嗎那現在卡到兩件事第一件事是這四個委員是您前任的行政院長提過來的我們並不知道說您對這四個委員的態度如何嘛對不對如果審對您也不尊重因為未來這"},{"start":6232.83,"end":6234.072,"text":"所以當然也不知道說該排好呢還是不排好"},{"start":6251.051,"end":6270.029,"text":"排了萬一對卓榮泰院長不尊重那怎麼辦呢?因為我相信大家對卓榮泰院長還是有一定的尊重啦因為你的備份還有你的協調你帶人簽核大家對你還是有一定的尊重所以會希望說你對這個事情表態要明確一點那不知道說你對這四個委員你是支持的嗎?"},{"start":6270.489,"end":6281.481,"text":"好,謝謝委員的好意。第一個,6月25日的程序委員會,大院裡面的程序委員會曾經又一次把它不列案。所以我的覺得是這案一直在"},{"start":6282.844,"end":6284.764,"text":"您有沒有考慮新提四個人選?"},{"start":6313.205,"end":6337.307,"text":"你目前來說有沒有卡住?因為你也沒有來溝通嘛。今天要不是我問你的話,我根本不知道你態度是什麼。那您要跟立法院講一下嘛。感覺好像今天變我做球給你了,讓你來講。理論上院長應該主動,這四個人我們很希望立法院通過,你主動跟大家講說,這個雖然是陳建仁提的,可是是我支持的。"},{"start":6337.887,"end":6362.625,"text":"然後優點在哪裡對不對讓大家可以進一步嘛現在你都沒有出征沒有錯沒有錯你都沒有出征然後感覺我比你緊張報告委我們在上個禮拜我就已經請秘書長就這個事情來詢問地方我們該用什麼方式一個告知一個公文還是什麼秘書長已經在上個禮拜在這個禮拜在做決定了公文不夠啦公文往來就是大家都知道是慣樣文章啦院長齁"},{"start":6364.246,"end":6390.813,"text":"我覺得如果你覺得四個很重要就來因為我覺得這四個沒過齁陳耀祥要連任我覺得剛剛你看到他那種態度他如果繼續做NC主委中共如果介入政論節目還得了啊台灣人永遠看政論節目沒有安心的一天啊當時民進黨說中共有中央廚房欸中央廚房影響政論節目我現在看政論節目啊我都在想說是不是有中央廚房欸"},{"start":6392.438,"end":6421.841,"text":"當然現在已經有這樣的疑慮了。主管機關NCC被民進黨寄予厚望的NCC有發文給工協會。聽陸委會才知道東森。這種NCC主委你要讓他繼續連任喔?院長你支持喔?所以院長接下來你就兩個抉擇。我講得很白就兩個抉擇。第一個抉擇是你7月31號你所支持的這四個陳炳宏、羅惠文、詹毅連、翁博忠"},{"start":6423.354,"end":6451.001,"text":"這一組人要做NCC委員還是陳耀祥、翁伯忠、林立雲、王維京要做NCC委員?你就是做這個抉擇而已啊。如果你的不作為啊,你就是支持陳耀祥啦。你就是變相支持陳耀祥。讓消極的讓陳耀祥繼續做NCC主委。這個不是國人期待的啦。所以兩件事情。第一個,院長如果認為這四個很重要,請你自己跟你把他們溝通。第二個,不然你再提四個。"},{"start":6452.298,"end":6465.852,"text":"因為本來制度的規定為什麼要讓NCC委員經過立法院的同意就是希望不斷的溝通讓他們有民意基礎嘛啊你們要溝通人送過來要審不審隨便你反正你們沒過我還有陳耀祥這個寶在那邊"},{"start":6467.995,"end":6471.379,"text":"不是我剛剛已經跟委員報告過我們現在就希望要繼續溝通對不對比陳耀強好嘛你至少覺得他們比陳耀強好嘛否則就是陳耀強繼續做欸"},{"start":6483.852,"end":6501.194,"text":"你看到他的態度嗎?你看到他的態度嗎?對,但是現在不來往的修法,把那個奇怪規定改掉。因為像那個監察委員,如果新的人士沒有通過,他們沒有延任。大法官如果人士沒有通過,舊的也不能延任。"},{"start":6501.875,"end":6526.84,"text":"所有機關只有NCC的委員新的沒有通過可以延任所有機關只有這樣所以院長你不積極或你不提新的人選你就在保送陳耀祥我覺得好可怕我真的覺得好可怕那我要問院長另外一個問題啦NCC委員如果缺了4個會造成什麼影響會像民進黨講的中共就介入我們政論節目嗎會不會如果缺了4個"},{"start":6527.884,"end":6536.37,"text":"委員做的決議才有執行的這個問題委員做決議的時候人數不足委員人數會不足沒辦法做決議我願意講你講的比那個翁伯忠好他說如果沒有NCCiPhone沒辦法審查你講的比較好但是他把那個放重點了"},{"start":6557.026,"end":6573.234,"text":"他把那個放重點了,你講得比較好所以我對你很有期待,請你趕快要嘛就積極推這四個,要嘛新提四個好不好,你新提四個,大家來審嘛不要讓陳耀強連任啊然後再來我問一下那個地方的問題請交通部長一起上來好不好"},{"start":6575.596,"end":6602.368,"text":"上次院長趁部長上來的時候上次在交通委員會的時候我有跟部長提過我們板橋有一個泰坂輕軌部長還記得嗎?他是連接五泰輕軌嘛泰坂輕軌喔這個泰坂輕軌對我們板橋非常重要他不只是連接了非常多其他捷運還有台鐵福州站而且他入境了很多都市計畫他也連接了土城中和板橋農業區要打造新的新的廊帶"},{"start":6603.619,"end":6630.617,"text":"對我們地方很重要可是這個太阪輕軌的可行性評估從去年一直送送了好幾次包括今年5月又再送一直沒有通過可行性評估一直沒有通過當時委員是說沒有效益但是因為我快沒時間院長我簡單跟你報告王國才在去年的時候前交通部長去年的時候報文板橋參加民進黨立委的造勢大會跟板橋社後地區的民眾講說"},{"start":6631.818,"end":6632.518,"text":"這個可不可以幫我追一下"},{"start":6676.633,"end":6677.934,"text":"好,謝謝葉委員,謝謝卓院長。下一位請邱若驊委員質詢。"},{"start":6694.074,"end":6697.139,"text":"謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長備詢。卓委員好。"},{"start":6706.752,"end":6723.869,"text":"院長好本席今天要和院長討論的是有觀光還有地方的交通建設首先我們來看到桃園是個年輕的城市不僅是國門之都而且擁有豐富的自然資源和文化歷史為觀光發展提供了很多機會是很多國際旅客到訪臺灣的第一站"},{"start":6724.505,"end":6746.312,"text":"那桃園市政府也持續積極的推動北橫精緻旅遊那藉此延長遊客停留的時間深度體驗北橫之美請問中央可以提供哪些資源協助我們桃園市政府協助改善我們地方的地方的旅宿還有旅遊環境以創造旅遊商機還有促進地方的就業"},{"start":6749.653,"end":6767.68,"text":"跟委員報告,我們這幾年補助臺灣市政府來辦理相關的觀光油氣設施的興建跟提升,大概投入了9.7億。另外最近也核定了像珍珠海岸足為永安漁港這邊的部分。"},{"start":6768.36,"end":6781.339,"text":"那另外也很多在活動上協助或是跟市府合辦的,包括像大概我們統計起來這三年有26個案子,像大溪的豆干節,那大溪的一些觀光系列。那部長我們先針對北橫這個地方。"},{"start":6783.883,"end":6809.873,"text":"我想北橫的部分我們目前正在主要這邊可能還要再跟原住民有一些是沒錯因為桃園市政府是108年的時候就辦理華盛北橫國家風景區那並於今年7月的時候有含送北橫地區的環境資源調查還有評鑑作業到我們的交通部觀光署那後續還仍需經評鑑盧部長說然後部落會議需要過半數決議同意才能"},{"start":6811.193,"end":6835.807,"text":"的程序才能夠成立這個國家風景區那交通部的周署長觀光署的周署長那今年3月的時候也在交通委員會的時候本期在質詢署長有指出目前還有兩項需要來做客服這部分需要院長來做協助那第一就是原住民部落還需經過部落會議的討論那第二個是相關部會之間的橫向協調那比如說我們的農業部"},{"start":6837.423,"end":6863.516,"text":"我們的農業部林業及自然環保署原民會那本席當場也請我們周署長協助嘛那這項計畫一度被中央擱置是因為涉及我們復興區原住民部落的權益那這部分可以請部長可以請院長來做協助嗎召開原住民部落會議因為這個會議需要一個一個部落的會議召開難度非常高那這個也需要我們院長的協助院長能夠承諾嗎"},{"start":6866.858,"end":6893.391,"text":"是我想這個部分就是跨部會這個我們一定會來處理就是說院裡面還有部裡面大概就會相關像跟石門水庫有關那現在可能是但是原住民的諮商這個因為部落有一個自主權可能不是我們能夠行政指導去處理不過我們會請原民會來協助從旁來協助什麼時候可以召開"},{"start":6894.591,"end":6911.204,"text":"您是說跨部會議還是說部落?跨部會的會議以及橫向的溝通。是。我們這邊其實都有持續在協商。我最近會把這些協商的成果跟目前還在克服的問題我會整理一份跟委員這邊做說明。"},{"start":6913.027,"end":6930.508,"text":"因為那個會議其實是持續在召開的,另外我覺得北橫這邊有很多很豐富的觀光資源,包括像拉拉山,所以我們是支持這邊透過一個化之為國家風景區,那麼來促成它的這個觀光的提升。"},{"start":6931.064,"end":6943.972,"text":"我們看到了復興那接下來我們看桃園大溪桃園大溪名列全國的十大觀光小城那依據交通部觀光署公布112年度的觀光修器據點人事統計我們大溪老城區是遊客造訪桃園排名第一"},{"start":6944.397,"end":6966.27,"text":"那既然大溪老街是一個絕佳的旅遊地點也受我們入境遊客的喜愛中央應該協助我們大溪改善我們大溪地方的交通以地方期盼能有第三座聯外橋樑為例臺灣市政府正在規劃大溪兩岸跨橋橋樑的設計以解決目前聯外交通只能靠武嶺橋還有坎津大橋那每到假日"},{"start":6966.73,"end":6974.397,"text":"我們地方的交通可說是篩爆來形容嚴重影響地方的觀光那待規劃設計方案完成中央是否能夠補助桃園?"},{"start":6979.41,"end":6998.284,"text":"大溪這邊確實是有老街有非常多的古蹟還有特色美食也有很漂亮的風景所以整個觀光其實非常的蓬勃那剛剛您提到的要增設這個橋樑我們會後會跟國土署這邊一起來研商看怎麼樣來協助市府這邊來做這個促成"},{"start":7000.325,"end":7011.259,"text":"大西的美食跟文化歷史算是軟實力那我們需要硬體建設那這第三座橋樑是我們地方民眾我們都樂觀啟程那希望部長院長可以協助這筆經費那盡快召開會議"},{"start":7014.818,"end":7041.545,"text":"還有其他另外我們看到捷運綠線延伸到大溪一岸那桃園市政府在送可行性研究報告修正之後那請中央這邊可以加速辦理審議作業以及交通部盡快提出板龍快速道路可行性評估報告這部分院長可以承諾嗎?綠線現在進行的工程我們在4月已經有核定它的綜合規劃那現在就是幾個這個"},{"start":7043.206,"end":7063.204,"text":"哪一段路要先,總經費有到800多億啊,這個大的工程計畫。那這個幾個站口會先,站到站之間會先行讓他通車,所以希望在115年能夠先行通車。目前的計畫在這樣進行當中。那希望在119年,目標啊119年,讓他全線能夠通車,這是綠線的部分。"},{"start":7066.707,"end":7089.464,"text":"議員提到延伸到大溪那這個部分我們在去年11月有把審查意見給市政府那市政府現在還在修正那他如果修正報上來我們會以協助的角度希望來協助他們現在中央和市政府的共識是希望這條捷運大溪的捷運綠線可以延伸到老街那我們也希望在修正報告之後那我們能盡快的來辦理"},{"start":7092.777,"end":7105.931,"text":"接下來我們都希望可以藉由觀光帶動地方的經濟發展但前提交通建設要完善也希望中央持續給桃園支持部長大力的協助我們接下來看到"},{"start":7106.974,"end":7131.999,"text":"我們台灣除了入境台灣的觀光旅客還有過境台灣的轉機客對於我國每年約有500萬名的轉機客今年3月交通部表示有著手吸引轉機客入境旅遊像是針對東南亞等國家有24小時、48小時、72小時等方案也要爭取我們移民署可以同意那後來為什麼就沒有進度了"},{"start":7133.499,"end":7150.514,"text":"是,主要就是原來是想說這些轉機客如果能夠協助他過去如果在別的先進國家也有簽證我們這邊就可以同意他免簽但是因為跟移民署討論確實是有一些"},{"start":7151.495,"end":7151.515,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":7176.204,"end":7195.135,"text":"那預計什麼時候可以來做開放呢?這個部分因為移民署單位他們有一些考量,所以還需要再進一步溝通協調。因為會提到轉機客,因為院長您於5月30號行政院會聽取交通部拓展觀光新亮點,帶動兆元產業。"},{"start":7196.67,"end":7217.797,"text":"報告後表示請交通部要持續透過多元管道擴大宣傳吸引國際旅客早日順利達成千萬旅客來臺的目標可是我們看到原本設定從1200萬的人次已經到3月底已經下修至1000萬人次了那上週部長也說到截至6月底"},{"start":7218.807,"end":7234.965,"text":"來臺的國際旅客大約是380萬人是嗎?那距離1000萬人是這個數字還有很大的努力空間。部長你也很有信心的說年底是觀光旅遊的旺季那既然很有信心能夠承諾不會再次二度下修嗎?"},{"start":7236.344,"end":7250.524,"text":"我們會來努力我想今年一千萬的目標確實是有受到0403花蓮地震的影響因為泰魯閣目前還沒有辦法開放那很多國際旅客其實是受到泰魯閣這個吸引"},{"start":7251.766,"end":7255.389,"text":"因為我本期看到啟動全新台灣觀光新品牌,其中有提到環島亮點捲動國旅,我想不只是花蓮,全台的旅遊都可以來做發展。"},{"start":7272.369,"end":7290.901,"text":"所以我想像最近阿里山這個鐵路開通恢復行駛那我想阿里山這個高山鐵路在世界也是非常稀有非常珍貴那我們會把臺灣幾個有特色的景點再加強國際宣傳那希望讓國際旅客能夠更增多的來臺灣這個旅遊"},{"start":7295.08,"end":7314.268,"text":"好,院長,賴清德總統擔任行政院長的時候曾經表示過推動重大的建設是行政團隊期許國家發展經濟壯大臺灣的基礎政府會持續建設臺灣,讓交通四通八達促進地方的發展地方建設不分黨派,您同意嗎?當然是那請看簡報"},{"start":7316.496,"end":7345.903,"text":"包括國道3號偵測桃園8的交流道工程,交流道用地經費補助,還有推動桃園市快速道路可行性評估,桃園市機場捷運1200月票營收款補助比例,桃園市市區客運虧損補貼等事項。這邊,我們桃園市的交通建設正在發展,有很多重大的交通建設工程都在進行中。"},{"start":7347.746,"end":7363.032,"text":"桃園市政府為了配合賴清的總統提出的桃竹苗大矽谷計畫正在推動桃園未來包括城中城快速道路等三條完善快速道路系統只可行性評估。院長您可否同意補助八千九百萬元的經費?"},{"start":7365.667,"end":7379.043,"text":"大溪谷的桃樹苗大溪谷的案子是牽扯到整個高科技產業的發展對桃園地區現在已經好的基礎應該是好上加好所以健全他的交通線是當然是重要的那也非常謝謝剛剛委員的上一張圖把"},{"start":7381.766,"end":7381.786,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":7404.466,"end":7424.765,"text":"更有餘力能夠來納進更多。所以這些部分的資料我們再詳細來詳閱。委員我先跟您報告板龍快速道路還有新梅隆快速道路這個經費都已經有了目前有的已經招標有的正在招標階段所以已經在進行"},{"start":7425.245,"end":7445.03,"text":"那我會再了解這兩條之外委員是不是還有提到其他的快速道路的這個規劃我們再看怎麼樣來跟那我們看到博山政社巴陀交流道交流道的用地費是11.19億由市府負擔另外的新闢聯絡道工程部分也是由市府負責經費71.89億因此這11億還有70多億的經費總達83億對市府的負擔是相當沉重的"},{"start":7452.552,"end":7467.222,"text":"如果要帶市政府經費全數到位,可能影響到115年中的動工目標,因此建請中央補助一例,加速推動,請問院長可以同意這項費用嗎?由我們的交通部來做補助。"},{"start":7467.765,"end":7484.795,"text":"委員說的是這個交流道,大英豐德交流道,這個計畫已經合訂了,那目前在辦理這個設計跟作業當中,那中央跟地方的分配比例,經費的分配已經在合訂當中名列了。這個是由市府負擔的部分。其實它79.65億,"},{"start":7487.697,"end":7514.05,"text":"中央就負擔工程費68億那地方只負擔這個用地費11億所以其實是對地方來講而且這個是全國統一的規定就是說各地要增設交流道都是由地方負擔用地費中央來協助工程費的這個部分那比例上看起來我們今天沒有要討論採劃法嗎那地方就是因為經費拮据所以這邊要請交通部還有請院長來做協助"},{"start":7515.311,"end":7533.188,"text":"我們的負擔已經是桃園的6倍了。中央負擔68億,用地費11億。這個是這個案合定當時的一個比例的分配。而且是全國的。對,全國的比例是都用地費的地方來負擔。市政府負擔的費用也達了83億。總經費是79億。地方道路的、新闢道路的工程費用。"},{"start":7541.728,"end":7550.357,"text":"所以委員指的是說因為桃園這次有很多增設的交流道或者增設的道路總不能一條高速公路做好了可是沒有聯絡到嗎"},{"start":7553.352,"end":7576.98,"text":"我整個再整理一下因為桃園我記得值得大概有4、5個交流到都在徵社當中再請部長回去再提供本席書面資料那在本席在6月13號交通委員會的交通業務報告提到巴德非常重要的捷運31線延伸至巴德段計劃國發會已經審查通過那接下來待行政院核定後即可興建當時本席有請部長一起做協助那部長也答覆就是會"},{"start":7583.605,"end":7590.331,"text":"﹚國會審議和定本案的綜合規劃報告書修正版之後已經抱怨了,那後續的行政院審核進度目前到哪了?"},{"start":7596.82,"end":7611.605,"text":"目前我的了解是國安會已經審議審議那抱怨那怨在呈核的階段呈核階段已經呈核了半個月本席因為當時有提當時有提到說這個有時間上面的急迫性希望行政院"},{"start":7647.248,"end":7651.249,"text":"好,謝謝邱委員。謝謝卓院長。"},{"start":7653.72,"end":7671.737,"text":"陽耀委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。報告委員會交通組之質詢已詢答完畢。休息10分鐘。休息之後進行司法及法制組之質詢。現在休息。"},{"start":8323.488,"end":8329.95,"text":"報告委員會現在繼續開會,進行司法及法制組之質詢。請羅委員自強質詢,詢答時間15分鐘。有請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":8355.933,"end":8373.014,"text":"各位好院長好賴清哲總統曾說要不分黨派不問何人只要涉及非法檢調都應該查辦勿枉勿重這句話我認同在這邊我要先肯定就是我們的鄭明謙部長為什麼"},{"start":8374.417,"end":8397.88,"text":"因為鄭文燦涉貪案已經案經7年,邱泰山不敢辦,然後蔡清祥不敢辦,最後鄭明謙當部長之後檢察機關終於動起來。但是我還是也要提醒一下,就是希望我們的院長、法務部長跟檢察官不要犯三個選擇性的錯誤。"},{"start":8399.99,"end":8423.34,"text":"雖然說今天鄭文燦涉貪案已經開始辦了但我還是要跟我們的院長就教一下有些東西我看不太懂我常覺得民進黨的首長、縣市長好像涉及貪毒案似乎有一個特權列車在裡面保護著他"},{"start":8424,"end":8451.009,"text":"先不講我剛剛前面講7年的案子好不容易等到賴清哲總統上任了才解封那前面的部長是幹嘛吃鹹飯還是在吃案押案第二個我也很納悶過去不管是辦高雄安的案子辦這個陽文科的案子辦林芝廟的案子哇不得了欸兵分18路28路38路48路撿掉大舉搜索啊"},{"start":8452.319,"end":8468.877,"text":"鄭文燦不用欸好好的沒事欸能不能請教院長為什麼會有這樣的一個差別待遇啊我還是尊重檢調單位他們專業的調查啦對啊你尊重不論是哪一個人或是哪幾個人部分黨派部分個人謝謝你的尊重齁"},{"start":8470.247,"end":8489.922,"text":"不只如此,你會發現齁,基本上我們的,當然這個跟法務部也沒有關係,生壓的結果呢,結果呢,送錢的收壓,收錢的不壓。我覺得鄭文燦真的是桃園經營的蠻好,連桃園地方法院我看他經營都不錯。"},{"start":8490.956,"end":8519.059,"text":"所以有一些特權的待遇在鄭文燦身上就看到了他發聲但不管怎麼樣今天我給鄭部長一個肯定至少顯示你沒有押案施案至少此時此刻但是我接下來有幾個也要請我們的行政團隊我們請法務部跟檢察官可能要注意的一件事事實上鄭文燦過去所涉及的疑案不只是林口公武擴大用地"},{"start":8520.103,"end":8545.524,"text":"鄭文燦過去有很多的案子我也希望能夠一併的好好的了解一下我曾經說過全台灣我最佩服的縣市長民進黨的縣市長就是鄭文燦因為鄭文燦曾經有天地水火四大政績我不知道院長有沒有聽過我們鄭文燦的豐功為業天地水火四大政績哪四大你知道嗎我告訴你第一個天政績"},{"start":8547.028,"end":8563.457,"text":"桃園巴德運動中心蓋完馬上一個三級地震天花板塌光光被笑稱所謂的最佳的地震體驗館請問一下我們的司法單位有沒有去了解一下有沒有偷工減料啊"},{"start":8564.192,"end":8586.397,"text":"有沒有到現在有沒有是立案調查或是去了解一下,有沒有偷工減料?這部分我們尊重那個整個台灣地檢署的一個偵辦,因為法務部我們也不參與。我謝謝你的尊重啦,起碼這次你尊重結果鄭文燦終於7年前的案子被辦了啦。所以今天部長我今天是特別尊重你,你講的話我都接受。"},{"start":8587.179,"end":8612.767,"text":"第二個什麼叫做這個地震機啊。憑證的地下停車場然後在2020年4月蓋完就塌了。然後呢造成一死二傷的慘劇啊。中間有沒有偷工減料人謀不章也拜託我們尊重地檢署的我們的法務部長你也是沉思我們司法正義的一個守門人啊。"},{"start":8613.615,"end":8637.084,"text":"我也希望我們的檢察官也能夠好好了解一下第三個水政機也很亮眼陽梅區公署在2021年8月初結果行政大樓颱風外圍環流降雨影響地下水位上升導致結構體上浮45公分形成陽梅水上飄的奇景"},{"start":8638.831,"end":8640.652,"text":"阿中間有沒有偷工減料?"},{"start":8640.652,"end":8643.472,"text":"有沒有人模不彰?再來是什麼呢?"},{"start":8643.472,"end":8667.019,"text":"火政機,如足美福倉儲火災燒,連燒二十幾天也創了我們台灣這個火災燒的日數最久的一個紀錄也是在我們鄭文燦市長的任內啊所以我要講今天不是辦這七年前的舊案要辦就通通辦第二個我也想請教一下"},{"start":8668.428,"end":8694.92,"text":"當然外界有很多一些所謂的政治陰謀論有人也擔心今天辦這個案子7年前這個案子到現在辦可能會雷聲大雨點小請問院長你對於我們的檢查機關有沒有信心啊會不會雷聲大雨點小部長除了尊重之外就是按照證據跟事實來辦案這個才重要如果說今天鄭文燦涉貪事實明確"},{"start":8696.445,"end":8703.671,"text":"今天政部長你有肩膀有擔當來做檢察官的後盾讓他查辦到底嗎?有沒有肩膀?"},{"start":8705.752,"end":8711.355,"text":"對於我講的很簡單對於檢察官勇於認識你作為法務部長作為行政院長就要擔當我們檢察官的後盾我就講另外一件事啊"},{"start":8731.466,"end":8745.132,"text":"這位檢察官辦了鄭文燦的案子之後,現在不得了了,變渣男了,你有沒有發現?部長有沒有發現?媒體開始去挖他的私生活,開始去打擊他。我要跟部長跟院長說,"},{"start":8746.909,"end":8762.537,"text":"有餘認識的檢察官不分黨派今天偵辦弊案行政團隊就要給予支持也請部長今天能當檢察官的後盾當然還是有一件事我也不希望今天是雷聲大雨點小"},{"start":8763.629,"end":8777.326,"text":"外面很多人在想因為鄭文燦對不對在過去跟賴清德總統有諸多恩怨賴清德總統跟鄭文燦在處位之爭當中有很多的宮廷的糾結"},{"start":8778.7,"end":8798.443,"text":"那因為我們鄭文燦桃園雖然這個選舉成績不理想但是最近新北市長民調高然後呢接下來呢打他一槍把新北市長打掉之後然後呢雙方各退一步接下來弊案就不了了之我希望不要到處變政治交換啦可不可以"},{"start":8800.877,"end":8827.875,"text":"我認為絕對不要用這種不正確的邏輯來看一個司法案件。謝謝,我希望這個邏輯不正確,但我們就等著看。看看鄭文燦的案子最後走向你這個不正確的結果。第三個我要講,我講第三個選擇性,抱歉,不是只有鄭文燦案。過去民進黨八年執政真的是避絕風輕,原來就是蓋牌效應造成的。不判就沒閉案啊。"},{"start":8829.54,"end":8850.737,"text":"七年前的案子到現在才開始還要賴清德總上任新官上任三把火開始要辦了我是肯定啦今天不分黨派辦B案賴清德總統我肯定他但是不要選擇性不要跟我講說只有鄭文燦林志堅新竹棒球場請問到現在進度是什麼部長你知道嗎"},{"start":8852.995,"end":8879.582,"text":"你不要再跟我講尊重地檢署檢察官了啦你對通案也該有了解的責任啦反正有民眾有告發那個檢控就會依法偵辦那這部分我們本部的立場我們是不會去我告訴你,磁塵大海我直接跟你講比你更了解沒銷沒洗啦沒下文啦第二個第三個我們另外一位現在貴為民進黨秘書長的林佑昌我來跟大家講"},{"start":8881.138,"end":8901.286,"text":"你也發現東岸停車場的問題齁有沒有發現這個大日公司齁像基隆市政府齁曾租商場然後將惡房東將商場經營權包給Net每月收租250萬元每年收租3000萬元規避商場全年總營業額7億元未記錄契約會計營收報表造成8年經營權權利金是0元"},{"start":8910.663,"end":8919.08,"text":"政府短收近25億元還發生大日公司跟基隆市政府還沒有決議徵件前就急急忙忙準備徵件"},{"start":8920.27,"end":8947.984,"text":"被先斬後奏之後結果呢基隆市政府遲遲沒有去申報產權差點讓公共財產被用來圖利民間企業最後大日公司被查出在其他同性質的案件當中爆發弊案被解約民間訴訟歸民間訴訟啦但即便涉及非常多公權力的弊病可是到現在為止我也沒有看到我們的檢方有任何動起來啊"},{"start":8948.976,"end":8971.682,"text":"事實上法院之前已經還明確的一個地方法院的判決,已經講基隆市政府與大日公司約定由大日公司出資,細增建物完成後,闢為商場,由基隆市政府取得。結果呢,你會看到還有包括增建部分納入後續委託營運範圍由大日公司營運,判定"},{"start":8972.482,"end":8999.778,"text":"內特的主日公司就是判定大日的這個所謂的一個球場是敗訴的還謝國洋公道這牽涉兩件事情我要在這邊也要提醒部長不要民進黨的縣市長遇到任何爭議的東西就有特殊待遇啊像鄭文燦可以7年耶押案7年現在才開始動起來那林志堅呢那林右昌呢"},{"start":9001.199,"end":9023.345,"text":"請問要不要了解一下為什麼不登記產權為什麼今天當初留下這麼大的一個問題讓後面基隆市政府必須跟內的公司對簿公堂這不就是今天裡面涉及的疑雲重重嗎這個我也希望我們的部長能夠好好的我們院長好好的去查辦一下接下來我就要講我想請教一下院長"},{"start":9027.435,"end":9035.912,"text":"我們這個臺南市區與會理事長林士傑被槍擊身亡一案請問目前掌握狀況如何?"},{"start":9037.453,"end":9062.11,"text":"報告委員早上我們已經邀集內政部跟法務部部長警政署長以及刑事警察局的局長就這個案件在做一次的匯報那現在我們不鎖定任何的動機就是讓他能夠廣泛的去調查那也不排除任何的可能那現在專案小組已經在啟動有若干的掌握但是現在都不變對外說我跟院長說跟部長說態度更積極"},{"start":9065.848,"end":9081.126,"text":"你上面有一個眼睛看著你知道誰在看著你嗎賴清德在看著今天林士傑在不久之前才捲入政府議長的會選案恐嚇案背書女兒是民進黨現任的市議員"},{"start":9084.022,"end":9113.096,"text":"那過去齁你看到台南市盧渣案、光電案、陳宗彥、陳凱琳接受姓趙大案、政府議長會選案再加上這一次政府議長會選案重大關係人竟然被槍殺我覺得民進黨很對不起台南人捏民進黨台南執政這麼久陣風敗壞、弊案雲雲、疑雲重重然後現在還發生什麼呢槍擊命案"},{"start":9114.681,"end":9143.471,"text":"請問這是民進黨長期治治下的臺南嗎?請問這是賴清德總統治理過的臺南嗎?今天臺南這樣的事情是民進黨對不起臺南人啊多年下來臺南人臺南被經營成變成是一個犯罪城市嗎?我不知道院長你怎麼看你會不會覺得賴清德很關切這件事情總統關切所有地方的治安問題我認為臺南的地方檢警單位要加油"},{"start":9144.959,"end":9170.879,"text":"對沒錯我們也要求我們中央部會要直接對臺南這個事件特別特別的重視希望能夠儘快的能夠釐清出來之後哪裡有缺失哪裡就是改善我希望齁這個院長這句話不是空口白話希望能夠真正努力來去做到執行不然說真的臺南這些事情真的我覺得你民進黨耐心得你連面也掛不住阿"},{"start":9172.11,"end":9173.431,"text":"實際上在這個臺灣民意基金會今年4月公布的民調"},{"start":9196.089,"end":9223.43,"text":"司法改革是最後一名只有35.6%滿意不滿意高達第1號54.6%那我想請教一下目前來說的話我們可以看到就是其中司法最不讓人家信任有一件事情就是掙扎不公開沒有落實嘛院長你有掌握到吧我們掙扎不公開不要講沒有落實我就講別的事情講現在的事情"},{"start":9224.485,"end":9239.064,"text":"林志妙案、這個高黃灣案跟楊文科案乃至於現在鄭文燦案很不好意思啊你有沒有發現一個問題所有案情全部媒體都逗光光欸院長你有注意到吧部長有注意到吧"},{"start":9241.134,"end":9262.492,"text":"這部分是偵查不公開的,我們是在5月30號也召開的一個精進的研修會。我幫你講結論啦,因為我時間也沒有了啦。那這部分齁。7255件被檢討案子裡面檢察官起訴零件啦,行政處分十幾件。偵查不公開變偵查大公開,拜託我現在也要求修法法治化,希望兩位。"},{"start":9284.898,"end":9295.667,"text":"謝謝羅委員。謝謝卓院長。報告委員會司法及法治組織質詢已詢答完畢。休息五分鐘。休息之後,"},{"start":9296.493,"end":9297.697,"text":"進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢。現在休息。"},{"start":9608.843,"end":9615.444,"text":"發言會現在繼續開會,進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢。請黃委員見好質詢。詢答時間15分鐘。好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":9641.906,"end":9656.862,"text":"委員長好 院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化問題視為國安問題"},{"start":9658.561,"end":9681.73,"text":"一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討"},{"start":9682.31,"end":9695.923,"text":"但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分"},{"start":9697.086,"end":9709.173,"text":"這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%"},{"start":9713.795,"end":9728.016,"text":"那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7成1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊"},{"start":9728.746,"end":9749.206,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":9749.526,"end":9775.354,"text":"為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家會關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是"},{"start":9776.014,"end":9779.075,"text":"所以今天第一個問題想討論是說這個放寬台灣家庭聘用外籍家庭的限制啊"},{"start":9796.522,"end":9810.807,"text":"那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有"},{"start":9811.926,"end":9835.536,"text":"六歲以下就學齡前兒童的家庭的這個父母親百分之六十二雙年家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是百分之六十一點七那只有父親有工作的占百分之三十二點四那只有母親有工作是百分之四點四那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占百分之四十四點六高於母親的"},{"start":9836.696,"end":9865.406,"text":"反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留庭的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留庭那平均申請的留庭的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話"},{"start":9866.653,"end":9895.082,"text":"再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了"},{"start":9895.882,"end":9918.395,"text":"那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去、托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。"},{"start":9925.063,"end":9929.125,"text":"所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這家庭放寬的機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下照顧小孩這件事情"},{"start":9952.363,"end":9952.483,"text":"﹚發言委員"},{"start":9976.377,"end":9979.038,"text":"當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再度參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。"},{"start":10001.496,"end":10018.521,"text":"實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上"},{"start":10020.006,"end":10041.615,"text":"社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理啊食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態"},{"start":10043.507,"end":10065.657,"text":"﹗"},{"start":10065.777,"end":10084.813,"text":"但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考"},{"start":10085.438,"end":10107.151,"text":"目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。跟委員報告關於這個家庭幫傭的開放確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。那麼主要是我們國內的保母團體他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。"},{"start":10107.791,"end":10113.816,"text":"那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體"},{"start":10125.725,"end":10142.602,"text":"﹚"},{"start":10142.602,"end":10148.986,"text":"謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享,當然現在家庭裡面,尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭,他遇到的問題是說,剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題,但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課,或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後,"},{"start":10170.418,"end":10199.321,"text":"他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭"},{"start":10200.141,"end":10204.526,"text":"因為其實還有一個問題,我們現階段台灣的法律啊,我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛,部長應該很清楚,院長應該很清楚啊。"},{"start":10220.001,"end":10242.59,"text":"外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊"},{"start":10243.527,"end":10272.689,"text":"外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準我的生活條件達到一定水準我就能夠請但你對本國人的限制是你要生6歲以下生3個我才能請我想問一下這個實務上院長跟部長你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面有多少家庭他可以生6個生3個6歲以下的人是小孩很難吧而且這很難達到這個我就算今年達到了我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦"},{"start":10273.783,"end":10273.803,"text":"院長﹖"},{"start":10301.288,"end":10321.682,"text":"現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。"},{"start":10323.303,"end":10330.796,"text":"是,各位報告,我們也有請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬,這個我們會來處理。所以這個會期,來不及了。"},{"start":10337.881,"end":10357.43,"text":"要多久?應該說這個會期來不及,但這個檢討要多久?我們會盡快來處理。我們會盡快來處理。因為之前前部長也說會盡快處理,但是我想現在換部長了。因為跟委員報告這個就還是必須進行社會溝通。我們要跟這個相關的利益方,我們都有一些討論之後,我們會盡快來"},{"start":10359.823,"end":10384.995,"text":"來處理這件事情我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感"},{"start":10385.475,"end":10403.94,"text":"坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩"},{"start":10404.44,"end":10409.064,"text":"謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好"},{"start":10433.502,"end":10460.612,"text":"好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們臺灣溫室氣體的部分我想臺灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果"},{"start":10461.991,"end":10483.232,"text":"二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。"},{"start":10483.592,"end":10513.592,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":10513.852,"end":10530.209,"text":"我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%降到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長"},{"start":10532.01,"end":10557.351,"text":"這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續以後在課偵探對,或者是說國外在課偵探的時候,對本國的產業會有很大的改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?"},{"start":10563.941,"end":10579.5,"text":"謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友歡迎你們下一位我們請盧憲一委員質詢"},{"start":10600.066,"end":10626.43,"text":"主席有請部長。好請院長。主委好。今天第二次見面囉。是。好那我先考你幾個問題齁。我們文化安全是什麼?文化安全。文化安全。"},{"start":10638.196,"end":10650.682,"text":"根據加拿大的一個研究就是說你要降低彼此之間的一個誤解歧視要建構一個文化安全的模式通常是在講醫療機構"},{"start":10652.5,"end":10677.892,"text":"醫療機構"},{"start":10678.1,"end":10693.506,"text":"好,我想那個文化這件事情牽涉的很廣,如果以醫療的場域來看,我們必須要有不同文化的族群,他在就醫一定要有平權,包括他的可敬性。"},{"start":10694.435,"end":10710.773,"text":"我們先看一下第三個就是Cultural Safety的下面那個TRAUMATIC AND VIOLENT INFORMED CARE也就是說你在面對這樣一個病人你知不知道他這個跨世代的一個仇恨對他心裡面所造成的影響醫療人員有沒有基本上這樣的一個概念"},{"start":10711.474,"end":10738.266,"text":"那Cultural Humility就是說沒有先入為主的概念那Anti-Racism就是我們一直在講的歧視如果這些文化安全的課程能不能降低這些歧視就在這個安全課程裡面所涵蓋的這個整個範圍那我們目前台灣在做的步驟裡面有沒有在進行因為這個是在原住民主健康法裡面所規定應該要進行的課程我相信"},{"start":10739.451,"end":10764.516,"text":"有在做可是沒有做得很徹底有沒有一個步驟比如說10年計畫20年計畫長遠的規劃我們什麼時候可以達成一個完全消明對文化一個所謂的一個先入為主的一個概念有沒有這樣的一個想法好謝謝委員的關心我們共同在關心原住民的醫療的權利那因為在過去"},{"start":10766.411,"end":10781.214,"text":"七、八年當中在立法院討論到這個題目是非常的熱烈而且大家真的都是同心一致來怎麼樣用各種方式來提升原住民的健康水準在過去幾年的努力"},{"start":10781.84,"end":10808.23,"text":"我們在原住民方面的平均壽命其實已經跟一般台灣的從10歲﹖等一下下面會講到﹖對那這中間表示說我們在軟硬體方面其實都一直在進行不管是在偏鄉的一個硬體衛生所各方面或衛生室甚至活動中心的一個重建我想都有至少有40個計畫在進行在軟體方面我們也希望"},{"start":10808.902,"end":10826.407,"text":"也曾經談過語言方面的一個協助我是希望能夠聽到衛福部有一個短程的、遠程的一個計畫對整個文化一個教育裡面能不能扮演一個角色就是說你先主導以後可以推廣到比如說教育部啊"},{"start":10826.847,"end":10826.867,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":10848.055,"end":10862.883,"text":"好,我想,其實以前我們已經成立了原住民健康政策會,也補助國家衛生研究成立原住民健康研究中心,其實都往這方面在努力,我們會繼續努力。我也跟委員報告,因為原民會今天不在現場。"},{"start":10864.264,"end":10875.951,"text":"原民會跟教育部已經針對這個文化安全的課程有在訂定一個相關的一個辦法那未來跟衛福部還會再進行後續的動作我今天為什麼會講這個就是因為沒有專責機構"},{"start":10880.526,"end":10905.857,"text":"那專責機構我上次有請衛福部到辦公室來討論他們就說目前的想法還是放在一個科科的一個概念我希望能夠升級到處的概念或者是說更高師的概念是不是讓在照顧民族民族或者是三地離島因為以往都是放在一起照顧三地離島的一個族群來說你放在一個科的成績太低"},{"start":10906.517,"end":10906.737,"text":"謝謝委員的執行"},{"start":10935.546,"end":10963.597,"text":"我想盧醫師很清楚我們這幾十年來從我年輕的時候在參與健保署的衛生署的工作就是有一個專門的單位當然是科在負責我想您也很清楚幫忙非常的多那一直在推展那這些其實這些當時的科長後來也都比較晉升到相關重要的位置他們心目中還是一直關心著原住民的一個"},{"start":10964.318,"end":10976.779,"text":"一個一個一個推展那至於說是不要用成立一個專責機構我想我們再來不是是一定要他是原尊民主接本法他有就是說他到底要到哪一個層次"},{"start":10979.349,"end":10997.581,"text":"專責是一定有,但是他的成績在哪裡,我們可以再來研議。好,那我們看下一張。他現在看到的一個比較屬於研究單位的,是在國衛院的一個原住民族健康研究中心。他是有成立,是謝謝有這樣的一個單位。可是我們還是希望有專責機構。再下一張。"},{"start":11002.438,"end":11023.656,"text":"那我們也都知道說我們在原住民地區照顧我們的都是衛生所我問一下院長你最近一次去衛生所被服務的時候是什麼時候我沒有我說我院長我要去打疫苗那什麼時候去年去年去年嗎那部長最近有去衛生所嗎"},{"start":11025.211,"end":11050.606,"text":"我當過衛生署主任,明年我77年我就當過衛生署主任了。最近有沒有到基層醫療打針啊?我希望你們有空的時候去山地離島的衛生所看一下。大概就是要討論山地離島的問題嘛。我在當立委的時候也考察過原鄉的一個衛生所幾次。你有沒有去過山地的衛生所去就醫過?兩位有沒有?"},{"start":11054.428,"end":11067.849,"text":"如果有一天你去霧台的時候看一下霧台距離最近的醫院大概一個小時以上的距離所有的遊客如果受傷或當地的居民需要藥物都是到那裡我們就要講它的嚴格"},{"start":11068.882,"end":11087.278,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":11087.928,"end":11089.89,"text":"公共衛生服務體系升級策略"},{"start":11106.783,"end":11124.514,"text":"﹗"},{"start":11124.654,"end":11124.674,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":11150.562,"end":11171.974,"text":"你們說有打成目標,我是覺得感覺是非常的,是有點在騙人,因為我看那個服務量,112年4958,你要除以全國,全國五十幾個,而且是全年的人數,這樣實在是一天可能都照顧不到一個病人。"},{"start":11172.674,"end":11195.897,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分應該是要加強它的基礎建設,各地區的,才能夠把真正的遠距醫療把它做好。第二個就是我們所謂的衛生署整建、耐震補強,這個我查到我們自己本身的3D的部分還有霧台箱,它還在招標當中。我覺得它的問題就是金額太低。"},{"start":11196.943,"end":11215.252,"text":"你如果說只是200多萬你要怎麼去在偏遠地區蓋一個衛生室是從無到有的衛生室它不是整件喔它是完全重新蓋一個新的衛生室霧台鄉大武村那那個地方是非常偏遠那你只有這樣的一個金額誰會去標這個工程來做呢"},{"start":11215.572,"end":11215.812,"text":"第三個問題就是"},{"start":11233.459,"end":11261.138,"text":"你們說要強化醫師人員就是說要有彈性不過我看這邊報告上面寫目前符合的就是臺北跟屏東那也就是說臺北跟屏東是完全沒有問題那我想舉例問一下因為現在禁用的我們的醫護人員幾乎他沒有所謂的族別限制語言限制所以他只要是現場OK的人他都可以進來也就是說背景比較重要"},{"start":11261.96,"end":11262.08,"text":"﹚第11屆第12會議"},{"start":11289.662,"end":11298.196,"text":"呃他給他支持他的人來來當護理師不是這樣嗎好謝謝我容我回答一下那第一個就是說"},{"start":11299.076,"end":11322.079,"text":"有關於基層的一個視訊演技醫療的設備我想這個就是我們多年來一直在強調的那一定要給錢給補給技術不然的話常常停頓在那裡其實它的效果也不好其實這個在30年前我們就一直在發展了但是真的還是希望"},{"start":11330.001,"end":11344.564,"text":"我們現在做的是比比澳洲還好因為我們確實是在那個紐西蘭下面然後澳洲的前面那我看我有自己分析一下大概是什麼原因"},{"start":11349.158,"end":11367.536,"text":"澳洲在政府的一個投資大概972萬美金這是他說他這幾年增加了大概38%我們再看下一頁又說今年增加了100萬美金如果我們這樣看其實換算台幣的也沒有很多大概3000多萬我們看下一個"},{"start":11368.837,"end":11393.196,"text":"那如果就紐西蘭來看就差很遠了紐西蘭的話大概就是BillionBillion的話就是30億紐幣的話也是將近是十幾億那如果是20億的對Primary Care的話就是20億20億的話大概如果乘以大概是70%的話是14億這是14億美金喔不是台幣喔那我們看下面"},{"start":11394.474,"end":11420.711,"text":"那他也會算出來說他們對毛利人的一些非毛利人的一些醫療的那個所謂的差距如果說按照他這個所謂在生活上面所造成的一些代價他也算出來我們看下一個我最主要凸顯就是說澳洲的投資只有大概是幾千萬美金"},{"start":11422.651,"end":11437.146,"text":"紐西蘭會那麼進步在我們之上是因為他投入了幾十億美金我是要講的重點是這個那也就是說紐西蘭他一直認為說我們很像是他們毛利人很像把台灣當作母國嗎"},{"start":11438.596,"end":11438.616,"text":"﹚國務委員"},{"start":11464.366,"end":11465.246,"text":"這兩個中心都是國會委員很重要的重點"},{"start":11494.022,"end":11501.657,"text":"好謝謝那謝謝院長謝謝部長我們一起努力謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝陸委員下一位我們請蘇清泉委員質詢"},{"start":11528.524,"end":11532.966,"text":"謝謝主席我請院長來我們邱部長卓院長邱部長請備詢主委好院長好我今天主委要問你我不用問邱部長他很認真"},{"start":11553.82,"end":11581.387,"text":"議長,我請問你喔,你未來你會就醫看病看幾次?明年喔?對我沒有辦法預言啦對啊,沒辦法嘛,對不對?現在行政官員,你覺得你未來會看病看幾次?你會看大病還是小病?也不知道,對吧?想說都不知道嘛不知道,都未知嘛,對不對?你自己都不知道你未來要看多少病、要開多少錢?"},{"start":11583.666,"end":11583.746,"text":"議員長,這樣合理嗎?"},{"start":11606.496,"end":11620.541,"text":"我知道委員要檢討的是總額制度,但是每一個家庭,雖然不知道要看病看多少,但是也有留一些錢,固定一些醫療的支出,算到一方誰是這樣。那是破百分啦,破百分,以前時代,那現在還叫一些議長出來做情緒勒索,說什麼一店一口會沖涼,一店0.95就不會沖涼嗎?"},{"start":11634.656,"end":11635.337,"text":"這個點子一點一塊錢的這個事情"},{"start":11658.083,"end":11684.027,"text":"我們應該有共同的一個想法,就是說如果是一點,真的換一塊錢,這個總額制度就打破了,就沒有這個總額了。我們應該有相同的認知才對,如果要維持總額制度,是不是要去檢查?總額做一個目標啦,然後你如果這樣的話,那我問你啊,台電,我請你、我賣你、我賣你要多錢,你告訴我,我給你多錢,電車我要用,你賣不?你嫁不?"},{"start":11687.287,"end":11688.608,"text":"所以一個好的公共政策"},{"start":11704.673,"end":11704.693,"text":"委員長"},{"start":11723.851,"end":11734.91,"text":"全世界沒人這樣在做的,全世界現在沒人在做總統,只有台灣,中華民國台灣。來,我們來看一大影片。這我一天,院長召開,還有江副院長。"},{"start":11737.397,"end":11764.472,"text":"來,我在講的是健保的總額預算制,他把它界定,比如說今年是500億,他就500億結束了,國安會發展了,他就整個病房議改,你議改做到5%、50%、600%的農林道的事,除下來,今天每年都要結算完畢,所以為什麼會0.9、0.8、0.6,全世界現在在做總額的,只有中華民國、台灣啦,其他沒有人在做總額的啦,德國做住院總額做一陣子也不敢做了,行政單位完全沒安排,國家沒有壓力,全部只要協商完畢,全部丟給醫界,醫界已經這樣,這麼多年來,大家動不掉。"},{"start":11767.108,"end":11771.091,"text":"總額打炮之後,很多醫院可能會因此得到很多的資源,但是國的指數會無可限制。"},{"start":11793.647,"end":11817.539,"text":"阿總額來地址你給人家點一口給人家補充給人家醫護另外的可以安定下來。阿如果超過的部分你打折幾戶。事實上超過的等一下會講到。阿這樣就是沒有總額了阿。唉沒有沒有沒有總額目標是。包括還要再打折那就是沒有總額。阿得得得。那就沒有上限了。上禮拜確診的新冠病毒多少人你知道嗎?十萬人。阿死多少人你知道嗎?我也不知道。齁。"},{"start":11822.993,"end":11842.753,"text":"此參選委員於9年4、5月說新冠結束了,然後所產生的會用全部塞到健保。施從梁署長很優秀,他的事又在作詞。結果,這樣落在9年的點子裡,辣啊,迷茫茫,所以未來可以稍微補。今年,一樣。"},{"start":11846.26,"end":11866.81,"text":"現在新冠還在燒,現在新的疫苗莫德納公還要2、3個禮拜才做得出來。一天就固定禮拜10萬人確診,都很無情,其實是都偷偷的。來,這就是我們邱部長、邱委員、邱律師長他做禮物的時候提出來,這張。他提出來臨時提案,他出來提案,臨時的人叫做臨時議員。"},{"start":11874.125,"end":11880.509,"text":"陳怡銘什麼意思我再找邱部長以前的臉書我都找出來了來又下一張16、17、18所以邱部長你很認真你說什麼說你去吃五碼麵像我五碼麵吃一百塊你吃這麼多都要給九十塊這樣什麼意思五碼麵的老闆全給你做出來"},{"start":11905.869,"end":11923.664,"text":"這就是重點在這裡他算上去說一年減四百五十五個喔你也把量發出來齁所以邱部長這是你講的你現在我跟人說要電子要報價你就說要一千一要七八百億我不曉得石崇良你怎麼算的啦那我看起來齁你看看這個就是"},{"start":11929.246,"end":11940.824,"text":"每一年的缺口嘛,缺口都四、五百億、四、五百億,但是已經十幾年,院長,這幾個幾十千年,所以議會都打打打,但是今天出這種事情,"},{"start":11941.853,"end":11969.83,"text":"這個跟委員報告邱部長無論是在部長任內或是在理事長任內尤其現在他對於過去幾年下來把一些這個一些費用算到健保總額裡面來應該移出到公務預算的這件工作他非常努力在計算在爭取我們也跟他很詳細的在進行當中最近邱部長跟石崇亮署長兩個都去做 剛才你說的做公務預算 稍稍回去公務預算是的"},{"start":11970.53,"end":11974.335,"text":"我們開過幾次的會都在同樣針對這個議題在做進一步的協商因為已經快到了要做決定的時候啊那請部長說明一下"},{"start":11985.848,"end":12010.267,"text":"好,謝謝,的確感謝以前施委員、蘇理事長的指導,我們共同傳承的一個希望讓醫療環境改善,所以在2018年的時候,你看那幾個都醫生嘛,共同提出一些配套的措施,會希望我們共同的目標來研議,那是政府要研議,要如何在三天內可以達到,"},{"start":12015.291,"end":12039.029,"text":"點子一點一塊的目標,我們來拍面。這是那個時候,也記得在拍面。當然現在我們說要在這裡,是不是把配套措施用得好一點,我們要怎麼來保障。所以我可以為衛福部拜託委員,這邊可以給衛福部一段時間,我把公務預算可以用出來、清出來。"},{"start":12040.75,"end":12062.739,"text":"醫療有沒有辦法救齁,在乎你卓院長一念之間,一念之詞。阿如果沒有,我們死的啦,我們死的齁。來,這一張,我們也是希望把上限,框一個上限,把它拿起來改成目標。"},{"start":12063.973,"end":12081.243,"text":"目標,我們沒有要匯總額,所以這個要稍稍研究,認真看一看。然後呢,醫療人員現在最大的問題就是七折八扣嘛。這個是很糟糕的事情。這個就是這幾年來累計的差額啦。"},{"start":12088.134,"end":12107.509,"text":"八、八千多億,這個是七千,裡面給付的是七千七百多億。每一年的差額,院長,都差不多四、五百了,四、五百了。但是這個空越來越大。現在要把議員挖下來,要怎麼補起來。就是,我們,總統說的說,看能不能三十六%的說,說到三十八%,這個我們補充一年就已經很了。國務委員會的帖子,國務委員會去處理。"},{"start":12125.143,"end":12144.154,"text":"我們當然很第一個尊重衛福部包括部長跟衛福所有的同仁他們專業上的計算判斷當然做決定的時候我們要考慮到國家整個財政的能力來做決定希望在維持財政穩定的情況底下能夠讓大家的平均的利益都能夠得到分享下一張"},{"start":12145.68,"end":12166.277,"text":"您的健保的滿意度89.7有很好的醫生、有很好的工業政策、有這麼高的就是臺灣可以幫助您招待日內瓦當、本屆都在說臺灣的健保除了臺灣的健保以外還沒什麼人說所以這是我們驕傲的事情但是你如果不想珍惜就被驕傲了我們醫護人員的滿意度才30%所以院長你要"},{"start":12176.193,"end":12184.838,"text":"認真的思考下一張這個更糟糕我們的平均壽命現去年已經調到79.84歲男女平均"},{"start":12191.716,"end":12212.556,"text":"日本是84歲,韓國是84歲。我們的平均壽命這是一個國家進步的指標。我們已經遠遠落後日本、韓國、香港、澳門、新加坡。這是很漏氣的事情。你的健康的投入如果再不增加,這個平均壽命還會再往下掉。我們最好就在109歲,81.32歲。"},{"start":12216.813,"end":12241.05,"text":"這不高捏,日本83、84、85啊捏。韓國也被人家管。韓國人2000控4年就嚇過爛了。啊他們的對健康的投入,對醫療保險的投入,他們是遠遠高過我們。所以,院長,我只要講一句,就要你支持。你行政院國會人不給你支持。因為外部做到很難過。所以這要讓你了解。"},{"start":12242.267,"end":12242.727,"text":"這就是我們亞東醫院"},{"start":12270.387,"end":12286.11,"text":"燃燒殆盡。兩位醫生、兩位護士、一枚看四十幾個病人、又打卡的、到院前死亡三、四個、又去商議做導管的。聽到是老百姓的。他卻說他要退場了,他不敢做了。兩中院院長,我們補典也叫他去安撫。"},{"start":12293.587,"end":12307.157,"text":"是這樣幹的,我今天都要講給你聽,因為我講給邱部長聽不好,他要對著和尚唸經,還不用再唸嘛。好,下一張。另外一個,現在我們碰到一個很重要的問題,院長,這個我今天第一次提出來。我們現在急重症的醫師都跑掉了,有的跑去診所,有的跑去堆,牙科醫師跑光光。"},{"start":12324.155,"end":12346.249,"text":"我服務的醫院八個牙科醫師,跑掉剩下兩個,六個都跑到診所去,為什麼?因為診所的稅很輕,他們是用百分之七十八當費用,百分之二十二當薪資所得稅,所以今受的醫生一等一叫的所得稅都五萬,不夠二十萬。"},{"start":12348.814,"end":12378.234,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":12378.41,"end":12378.43,"text":"再來"},{"start":12406.926,"end":12425.334,"text":"我們的支付喔,支付太久了,台價太小,台料太厲害,這是柬埔宿厲害的地方,所以柬埔宿台價,點滴只有一個水,就都沒夠,欸,一罐500CC的點滴我們可以合25點啦,這要給新加坡買一罐要57塊啦,一千CC的,"},{"start":12433.74,"end":12437.465,"text":"這個我特別要求衛部一定要保證貨源充足"},{"start":12471.32,"end":12483.543,"text":"好,謝謝蘇委員,謝謝左院長還有部長。這個醫療的部分是國安問題啦,也請特別注意。那,抱怨會現在在議場二樓的貴賓由我們"},{"start":12486.601,"end":12506.832,"text":"美國南部地區州議會的領袖訪問團,我們歡迎他們。另外,報告院會現在在議場二樓旁邊的還有我們新北市中和客家社團的朋友們,我們也歡迎你們。"},{"start":12511.317,"end":12519.569,"text":"好,發言會上午的質詢到此為止,下午1點50分處理臨時提案,下午2點30分繼續開會,進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢,現在休息。"},{"start":12810.845,"end":12817.705,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":19202.158,"end":19209.033,"text":"報告委員會現在繼續開會處理臨時提案每位委員發言一分鐘請李委員彥秀發言"},{"start":19221.167,"end":19235.38,"text":"議員委員李燕秀有鑒於人類乳突病毒HPV影響民眾健康甚至尤其在男性頻繁感染與傳染HPV機率更高於女性對於男性健康威脅非常嚴重而疫苗"},{"start":19236.101,"end":19256.834,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":19256.994,"end":19270.542,"text":"原建請為不顧修正現行HPV疫苗接種對象,不分性別,針對全國國中生提供公費接種HPV疫苗,是否有當建請公決案。謝謝本院委員李燕秀等17人提案,作如下決議,含請行政院嚴處,請問院會有無異議,無異議通過。報告院會"},{"start":19287.364,"end":19290.969,"text":"臨時提案均已處理完畢,下午2點30分繼續開會,進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢,現在休息。"},{"start":21486.715,"end":21490.657,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21604.141,"end":21627.192,"text":"報告院會我們現在繼續開會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是歷屆華人公益獲獎的企業代表我們在這邊表達我們的歡迎謝謝報告院會我們繼續開會進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢請林國成委員質詢發詢時間15分鐘"},{"start":21651.343,"end":21663.951,"text":"好謝謝主席請卓院長還有我們勞動部我們何部長請卓院長還有勞動部部長備詢委員好好好院長部長我回想十幾年前一碗牛肉麵我對軸龍泰"},{"start":21681.923,"end":21694.656,"text":"秘書長印象深刻也就是本席在做立法委員主任的時候十幾年前你在當秘書長的時候一碗牛肉麵你付錢我永遠記住你的為人跟你所作所為"},{"start":21706.274,"end":21733.92,"text":"所以你沒有發現到每一次我在執行對你是彬彬有禮、尊敬有加嗎?但是...改天再去吃牛肉麵所以雖然一碗牛肉麵但是那是存有一點感情的存在但是我感覺到這很奇怪在我認識的卓榮泰院長在我的心目中裡面"},{"start":21736.998,"end":21737.378,"text":"我心裏面很難過。"},{"start":21749.847,"end":21767.444,"text":"其實我看得出來你從頭到現在你的團隊跟你本人都不是鬥雞耶其實你看立法委員在跟你對打的時候我們彼此之間都非常尊重的所以"},{"start":21768.953,"end":21785.098,"text":"院長,以身是華這四個字其實不要用啦因為以你的能力以立法委員對於你的尊敬程度以身是華這四個字不要用因為我認識的卓榮泰"},{"start":21788.066,"end":21799.021,"text":"他不是鬥雞型,你的團隊也不是鬥雞型。所以一定,咱說實在的啦,移工移私我是給你建議,沒有那麼恐怖啦。"},{"start":21800.155,"end":21821.205,"text":"報告委員,也有委員提醒我,以身試法,可以是考試的試,也可以用試用的試,都可以。我再次的強調,質詢就像一面鏡子。委員看到我就跟我看到我一樣,我們彼此尊重,國家就會進步。院長,我想我是好言相勸。沒有那麼恐怖啦。我們現在話回正題。"},{"start":21827.247,"end":21849.078,"text":"我當然要跟你談的就是勞工安心政府就放心大家都知道我們所有2300萬欸1100萬是勞工啊所以這勞工啊在我們社會基層上面確實是扮演非常重要的角色"},{"start":21849.969,"end":21869.957,"text":"所以當然我要跟你談的就是勞保那我也很感謝我們從以前陳院長到許明清部長到現在何部長第一個他勞工一利的東西也就是說我一直投保但是怕破產這一點"},{"start":21872.042,"end":21887.039,"text":"和部長一上臺跟卓院長一上臺就做先示第一個政府會負起己負之責任這勞工啊這勞工啊你知道嗎心裡面是踏實"},{"start":21888.26,"end":21905.111,"text":"安心多所以我的主題就很簡單勞工安心那政府就放心你在推行什麼他們在勞工的角色上面他們就會按部就班很認真去做所以我今天要跟你談的就是這個問題"},{"start":21906.723,"end":21926.599,"text":"當然一個部長是不可能去把這個事情完成但是一定要院長你要去力挺部長才有辦法去把它完成很簡單我要利用簡短的時間特別跟我們院長做一個說明跟報告"},{"start":21927.677,"end":21944.399,"text":"也就是勞工的破產勞工的基金會演變這樣是在整個省政府移交中央政府的時候第一沒清算第二虧損多少你們不知道"},{"start":21945.04,"end":21968.105,"text":"所以有些人啊就在講說啊這個怪民進黨我說沒有理由只要有執政的通通要怪為什麼84年現在我同意民進黨要概括承受但是一味的批評民進黨對勞保基金虧損的責任這是不公平的這個我們勞工啊就很簡單"},{"start":21969.245,"end":21997.145,"text":"對就對不就就不對所以我必須要跟院長報告一點也就是勞工所有的基金虧損跟勞工沒有關係第一是當初政府虧損有多少我現在問部長問院長你也不知道啦你也不知道所以到底那個洞有多深但是我必須要提醒卓院長"},{"start":21999.297,"end":22016.048,"text":"84年4月1日把醫療移到健保的時候我跟很大膽的跟院長報告勞工的基金這個部分是不虧錢的而是真正虧錢的是"},{"start":22017.113,"end":22038.056,"text":"前草前草以前的前草所以我為什麼要講全部怪你們沒有理由但是我們要把事情講得非常清楚不要來怪勞工說啊這個這個腳少領多啦啊現在要來騙腳多領少這是對勞工是不公平的"},{"start":22038.476,"end":22052.465,"text":"所以一定要 我說實在的啦 這我要代表1100萬的勞工跟你請病 跟把事實的真相 稟報給我們院長 讓院長去做決策的時候 不會做錯誤的決策"},{"start":22056.587,"end":22076.145,"text":"這點我拜託委員長你就要有一個時間去了解這個前因後果那另外一個我們也很感謝從2020到現在你們算負責任的也提撥了2000多億所以我看現在勞保基金現在的水位"},{"start":22077.492,"end":22092.671,"text":"是有照的說這代表什麼就代表你們是負起責任你們是負起責任因為勞工是無辜所有的虧損政府經營不善而延續下來的大動"},{"start":22093.852,"end":22112.081,"text":"完完全全要叫你們馬上解決這是有點不公平但是勞工總是要讓他有一個安心所以可以看得出來啊你主閣以後何部長上任以後勞工沒有吵沒有鬧他接著說左內閣何部長他們說娘有到錢"},{"start":22117.643,"end":22145.912,"text":"所以這代表什麼就代表勞工是安心的那這個我想你身為一個內閣當然你有這種義務去做但是我必須一定要有一點勞工要的不多勞工要的只是讓他安心勞工要的不是說你現在要比照公務人員等等的更好的福利最起碼的話他可以領得到錢"},{"start":22146.912,"end":22159.799,"text":"他安心我託保託了30年40年我最後我勞保的退休我領得到所以這一點我要建議我們院長還有我們部長"},{"start":22162.533,"end":22179.588,"text":"這個撥補在法令上是你的行政醜失但是本席在這裡要拜託要把己父入華也就是確定己父這個部分要把它入華我相信我不曉得卓院長"},{"start":22180.168,"end":22197.037,"text":"因為你已經擔保勞保不會倒政府要負起責任所以在這個部分69條跟66條本席都提修改入法的問題院長你針對這個你同不同意"},{"start":22198.361,"end":22224.228,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛對何部長有相當多的肯定這個是我們做事的目標但是也要得到人民共同的支持就算是同一政黨的執政也要延續蓋瓜承受過去就算不是政府的工作還是延續的前政府現在該有的努力我們要把它擬平過去的任何的缺口也是我們的責任這個絕不推卸責任"},{"start":22224.892,"end":22250.404,"text":"那至於對勞工的問題對勞保的這個政府負最後責任這個絕對不會改變那麼過去幾次我們也曾經在支付責任跟撥補入法當中我們有一些討論那現在這些立法要不要把它入法裡面的這個過程立場我們還是一致那希望取得社會更多的共識那勞動部一起再跟大家尋求這樣的共識"},{"start":22251.344,"end":22274.263,"text":"謝謝院長我要代替勞工跟你謝謝勞工要的是一個確保勞工要的是一個確保那也謝謝卓院長勇於對於這件事情的認同但是我們本會也已經提這個案的修法其實這個案非常單純一個撥補正常化也就是院長認為應該要撥補就撥補"},{"start":22276.405,"end":22303.997,"text":"那另外一個就確定起伏讓勞工很放心所以這點首先我還是要謝謝我們我們院長在這個部分你可以對以前國的勞工勇敢的承認這個政府要負全部責任所以這點我要特別謝謝我們卓院長是應該做的好那個何部長可以請回來那個邱部長請邱部長"},{"start":22316.718,"end":22340.397,"text":"好來邱部長我時間比較少但是我必須就是要讓你看一下新冠疫情這個部分我要請教一下因為你是醫生我也知道你對於整個醫療是非常認真這個無庸置疑我也不要再跟你討價還價這是你是行家"},{"start":22342.418,"end":22361.603,"text":"政府準備好了沒有?新冠疫情再起準備好了沒有?跟委員報告一下應該準備相當周全不管是從我們一個疫病的一個歧視的模式來看我們7月中會到達高峰但是應該就會下來那這是第一個第二個我們"},{"start":22362.843,"end":22386.914,"text":"剛剛委員上面有寫得很清楚我們從持續疫情的監測強化這個物品的儲備調度以及我們一直在更新我們應該有的感染控制指引還有加強民眾的衛教還有跟促進醫療院所的合作大概都一直在做那最重要就是藥物有沒有準備的期錢那我們盤點到7月6日瑞德西韋還有8萬多劑"},{"start":22389.54,"end":22410.572,"text":"拜臘委有18萬劑基層比較擔心的那個醫療沒有問題來部長我這裡提醒你一下因為你對於這些是行家我相信卓院長也會力挺你們但是老百姓的生命是非常重要這次的疫情"},{"start":22411.372,"end":22428.548,"text":"死亡率有一點偏高所以這個部分部長可能要代替院長要特別去注意這些那另外一個這個政府如果有作為現在很簡單到底各醫院口罩要不要戴"},{"start":22429.609,"end":22447.777,"text":"現在臺大醫院是規定人家要帶喔但是其他醫院不一定帶喔所以這個建議部長要不要統一小小的動作可能就會給老百姓有一個遵行的方向所以這個要拜託部長"},{"start":22449.418,"end":22468.938,"text":"我相信卓院長不可能管得這麼細但是因為你是衛福部這個部分要不要統一這很重要到底交通那個高鐵還要不要戴口罩這個你們要做專家的一個評估這個我們都會依照專家的指引那各醫院醫療院所更小心這是好事情"},{"start":22469.478,"end":22484.132,"text":"另外一個就是包括你剛才所講的口罩啦快篩啦這等等其實有備無犯這是非常重要的因為我們講快一點從SARS到我們新冠我們都有經驗"},{"start":22485.453,"end":22506.724,"text":"那預防勝過於治療那部長又是內行所以我相信只要像民意代表跟你提出這些提請跟建議我相信你們都做得到了這也本來也應該要替老百姓去做的所以在這裡還有一點我要提醒院長可能也要注意一下"},{"start":22508.274,"end":22531.534,"text":"因為小孩子打的預防針是比較小是比較偏低的那這個部分有沒有可能針對這些要去做預防動作所以一定我這樣是在建議你在做整個統籌的時候你這些因為我們提出這些是一個事實所以拜託院長"},{"start":22532.395,"end":22560.485,"text":"因為雖然你這個國是緩慢但最起碼這個你還是要去注意一下人民健康是永遠是擺第一的這個謝謝委員的提醒所以一定我坦白跟你講啦剛才就是我講過的一碗牛肉麵的故事讓我心裡面藏著卓榮泰永遠讓我感覺到是彬彬有禮做事認真然後廣結上演之人委員這是有情有義所以"},{"start":22561.005,"end":22575.813,"text":"我唯有拜託院長就是針對問題拜託你一定勞工要支持第二個衛福部這裡要支持這樣好不好謝謝委員指教一定好謝謝部長好謝謝院長好謝謝林委員好謝謝卓院長下一位我們請李昆哲委員質詢"},{"start":22604.055,"end":22610.439,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請一下卓院長還有勞動部何部長。好,請卓院長何部長備詢。好,院長好、部長好。臺灣的勞工對臺灣的發電拍下最重要的基礎,付出最多。所以我們對於勞工的權利的保障是政府最重要的一個基本責任。"},{"start":22633.663,"end":22662.772,"text":"大家都談到勞保那我記得在馬英九擔任總統陳沖擔任行政院長的時候我是第一個針對相關的財務精算報告提出質詢而且有兩項重要的建議就是要讓勞工安心讓勞工在老年之後對於他們的生活有勞保的這樣的一個基本的保障所以當初要求第一個政府撥補"},{"start":22663.939,"end":22678.692,"text":"第二是政府的國家最終支付責任經過多年的努力謝謝蘇貞昌院長在2020年我們踏出了重要的第一步就是撥補了200億2021年撥補220億2022年300億2023年450億再加300億的特別預算"},{"start":22690.984,"end":22706.673,"text":"到今年已經撥補到了1200億我首先要請教院長我們針對政府的撥補明年我們編的預算是不是還會再增加會維持到1200億以上嗎來請部長說明"},{"start":22709.747,"end":22710.187,"text":"會不會維持1200億以上?會不會增加?"},{"start":22733.956,"end":22757.503,"text":"目前還是至少維持跟過去一樣的水準是有的。好,謝謝院長的承諾。第二我們對於最終支付責任或是政府撥補當然已經連續5年的撥補那勞工對於政府的相關的作為認為對於勞保的撥補以及國家最終支付責任是有實質的做到。"},{"start":22758.547,"end":22783.318,"text":"但是我們的論壇也說我們對於勞保的政府撥補以及國家最終支付責任是要明文入法所以相關的勞保條例第69條必須要明文的加入相關的政府撥補以及國家最終支付責任我們看國民年金法的第49條以及公務人員退休撫恤管理條例第8條"},{"start":22784.578,"end":22810.248,"text":"對於他們相關的政府撥補或者是國家最終支付責任都有明文入法這個是我們接下來要推動的這是第二階段明文入法第三階段最重要的就是我們針對老保年金的改革必須更進一步的來推出長期的一個規劃過去對於老保年金的改革"},{"start":22811.829,"end":22824.128,"text":"討論不出一個版本或者是勞工無法接受主要有三大原因第一,過去政府沒有撥補第二,國家沒有最終支付的責任"},{"start":22825.131,"end":22844.358,"text":"第三、過去所討論出來的版本可能都是要多繳少領而且要晚點領這種勞工是無法接受的所以說我在這邊要提醒何部長我們第一步實質的政府撥補跟國家最終支付責任做到了"},{"start":22845.011,"end":22870.797,"text":"第二部就是相關的我們的明文入法勞保條例要將政府撥補跟國家最終支付責任明文入法第三就是要針對我們相關的勞保的改革必須做長期的跟長官學來進行更進一步的討論提出共識的版本這是很重要的工作"},{"start":22871.736,"end":22876.198,"text":"另外,我們針對相關的職災的部分,我們2023年職災加上我們的職業病,就是職場染疫加起來總共有9萬多件,這很嚴重。職業災害佔了4萬7千件。"},{"start":22896.365,"end":22921.256,"text":"然後職業病跟職場染疫現在也納入這個職業災害裡面所以他也有4萬3千件加起來就9萬件那我們2022年多少件?7萬件2023年比2022年增加了2萬件那我們2023年我們來看因為職業災害失能的我們的勞工朋友啊是達到1382人"},{"start":22924.255,"end":22946.927,"text":"死亡的人數不幸死亡的人數達到625人部長我要提醒你這625人單純的職業災害扣除職業病以及職場燃益的就有599人如果我再提醒部長我們針對2023跟2022再來做一個比較2023比2022"},{"start":22953.001,"end":22981.1,"text":"我們的職業傷害多出了1351人死亡的人數增加了83人要有效的降低職災保護我們的勞工啊來保證你有什麼具體的作為我們的職業傷害的職業災害的受傷的人數增加以及職業災害死亡的人數增加這對勞工權益的保障是一個嚴重的警訊來請說明"},{"start":22983.295,"end":22999.129,"text":"謝謝委員,剛剛您提到的那個職災幾戶建樹會增加,那個是基本上是有COVID-19的因素啦,是因為所以我說加上職業病跟職場染疫對,可是我要跟您報告,現在因應這一個確實我們職災發生率並沒有有效的降低,這是一個嚴重的問題"},{"start":23004.474,"end":23021.541,"text":"那麼我們也針對這個我們要準備修正職業安全衛生法。這是為什麼呢?因為第一個在我們的這一個已經看到的公安意外裡面很多數的業主跟施作比如說我們這個施工廠之間他是沒有負連帶責任的。"},{"start":23022.861,"end":23024.122,"text":"部長,重點在於如何有效的降低職債。我們一年"},{"start":23046.894,"end":23069.467,"text":"有1382位勞工失能這很嚴重的我們有625人勞工失去生命這很嚴重的每一位勞工都是我們的家人一般他們為台灣的經濟發展付出最大的心力勞工的權益必須要具體的保障那我們看看相關的勞工職業災害有50%都營造業"},{"start":23074.215,"end":23086.311,"text":"對,沒錯然後有43%左右都是墜落那都是非常嚴重的那勞動部委員提出說銀兆業墜落打幾年"},{"start":23087.165,"end":23089.427,"text":"具體的做法呢?會不會提高相關的公安裁罰的金額?"},{"start":23109.125,"end":23112.407,"text":"我剛剛提到職業安全衛生法也會提高相關的裁罰金額,現在只有3萬到30萬,而且裁罰金額都沒有公佈,這是要檢討的。那麼我們準備要把它大幅提高,因為這個部分也不能讓業主心存僥倖。"},{"start":23128.297,"end":23151.208,"text":"那麼尤其我們在這個營造業的這個趕工的過程裡面,常常大家輕忽了工地安全本身的這樣子的一個連帶的責任的問題,這是部分我們必須確實檢討。那麼違反了大部分都是職業安全衛生法的第6條,那更應該具體的提出一些督促管理的這樣的作為。"},{"start":23154.192,"end":23165.645,"text":"一直要請教何部長,你剛就任。我們對於要降低職業災害到底有什麼具體的做法?你有什麼目標?那修法之前你有什麼具體的措施嗎?相關的行政作為嗎?"},{"start":23173.68,"end":23195.786,"text":"今年我們其實就是把這個勞檢的這個場次都提高包括對這個各種工地包括營造業的包括各種製造業的他們有在施工的其實這個場次都有提高我們也提到勞檢部長你也提到勞檢我們一年勞檢的場次大概是28萬的場次如果以初檢來說就有11萬場次"},{"start":23197.947,"end":23221.853,"text":"那十一萬場次的初檢它的違規是達到十二萬次以上所以去初檢大概都有問題都幾乎百分之百以上那當然我們在相關的復檢這些違規的這些場次裡面勞動部所提供的資料號稱它的改善率達到百分之九十二"},{"start":23224.81,"end":23239.262,"text":"我想這個確實該檢討,因為如果跟對照我們委員所感受到的或我們大家所感受到的,確實這個不盡符合事實。那麼因為我剛上任,我也要求我們治安署對這個問題要進行全面的檢討,因為包含初檢跟復檢之間,它會有一個時間差嘛。"},{"start":23247.489,"end":23274.725,"text":"那麼初檢跟復檢之間還有包括我們對停工範圍的定義其實那個有很多檢討的空間這個部分我倒是要肯定一下勞動部我們對於勞檢的場次這樣的增加是更能夠具體的來保障勞工的職場的安全但是相關的這一些對於業者的督促以及相關的改善必須更進一步的來作為提升來說明一下"},{"start":23275.555,"end":23296.291,"text":"是,就是另一方面這個除了我們這個增加勞檢修職業安全衛生委員就是說這個勞檢要確實化跟修職業安全衛生法也很有關係因為我們目前職業安全衛生法某些規範並沒有那麼的明確化所以導致這個我們在勞檢進行裁罰的時候其實也不夠具體"},{"start":23297.632,"end":23318.958,"text":"這個是有互相連帶關係,所以希望我們能在最快的時間內提出質量位的修法,也能夠獲得委員的支持。這個必須要更具體的作為。部長我都簽稿了,熱危害的議題。院長、部長,這幾天都火熄滅了,我們好像住在人生裡面。這就是因為極端氣候的這樣的一個肆虐跟趨勢。"},{"start":23320.182,"end":23337.356,"text":"那勞工朋友在這麼炎熱的天氣工作,相關的熱危害以及對身體所造成的衝擊啊,他的傷害性非常的大。在6月26號,郵局的勞工啊,郵差,辛苦的郵差啊,就一位眾署分導。"},{"start":23338.183,"end":23354.105,"text":"在送信的過程裡面。那我們對熱危害部長你有什麼具體的想法?來部長請說明。對跟委員報告這熱危害確實也是當前大家都在注意的一個大問題。我們現在也進行夏季高溫勞檢。"},{"start":23355.467,"end":23373.335,"text":"也是一樣有勞檢,可是呢,這個一樣就是說這個在食安委的這個法的規定裡面也是不夠明確,所以我們必須要把它進行法規的修正,這部分是行政命令,就是說業主他必須要提供避難,就是這一個防高溫的設備跟設施給勞工。"},{"start":23375.916,"end":23380.278,"text":"目前這個部分沒有明確化的規定,所以導致我們...接下來要做明確化的規定嗎?"},{"start":23380.278,"end":23405.031,"text":"來說明一下。對對對,我們8月底要來做這個相關法規的明確赤眼入法。我們現在只有要求他進行避難的這個規定,避難這樣子的一個規定,可是沒有要求他提供設備設施。所以會變成你在勞檢的時候,你又沒有辦法很明確的去罰他。所以這個會是一個,又是一個執行上的問題。"},{"start":23405.851,"end":23423.963,"text":"雖然我們下季勞工勞檢好幾萬場次可是罰的都很少所以這是會變成一個無效率的一個狀態這樣子所以我很很快的這個月就要進行這個法規的修正我們之前有通過勞工的職業災害保險以及保護法那針對勞工的職場的安全以及相關發生職業災害之後"},{"start":23430.027,"end":23434.728,"text":"一至四月相關的職業災害預防的補助申請一至四月只有20件而且職業災害的重建一至四月只有7件"},{"start":23457.936,"end":23478.476,"text":"那這個部分必須要更加強的來做相關的處理,來說明一下。好,謝謝委員。那個職災預防重建中心是一個職災保護法之後新成立的單位。它運作大概現在三年左右,從兩三年左右而已。那麼它事實上也在摸索中。"},{"start":23479.336,"end":23506.48,"text":"然後呢因為他是一個前端跟後端前端預防跟後端重建那在臺灣的這樣子的一個職業安全衛生的這個這個醫學的這個環境裡面他現在的這一個目前運作的狀況因為他是針對一般民間的所以他還要去找這個個案然後去對他進行一些示範的輔導他現在都還在嘗試這些建立這些model的工作而已"},{"start":23506.96,"end":23507.24,"text":"好,謝謝李委員"},{"start":23533.837,"end":23556.525,"text":"下一位我們請羅廷偉委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請備詢。院長你要喝個水嗎?"},{"start":23562.52,"end":23562.621,"text":"委員長好"},{"start":23573.841,"end":23602.627,"text":"謝謝委員好 院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的必戰我想這是政府應該有的態度"},{"start":23603.067,"end":23620.575,"text":"我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關的事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。"},{"start":23622.096,"end":23640.389,"text":"那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院"},{"start":23641.329,"end":23642.631,"text":"我們這些機制有沒有去建立?"},{"start":23656.717,"end":23678.655,"text":"謝謝委員 這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在整備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備"},{"start":23679.295,"end":23704.985,"text":"好 謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?"},{"start":23706.141,"end":23726.355,"text":"沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧是但是呢現在坊間吶我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣喔最大的情況不同是他是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是"},{"start":23726.995,"end":23727.455,"text":"部長,您覺得進得來嗎?"},{"start":23751.926,"end":23763.317,"text":"我想我們這個都有預防所以這次的專案進口是因為臨時擁轟因為他佔的比例太多所以我們除了在專案進口以外我們已經輔導鼓勵國內的廠商我們給他比較合理的價碼"},{"start":23769.578,"end":23796.034,"text":"來自己產相關的生理食品水這個是我們事後再檢討啦齁但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦齁那我們先來探討幾個問題齁為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的牆綠、葵寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行"},{"start":23797.824,"end":23798.104,"text":"部長我還是要講齁"},{"start":23818.027,"end":23826.899,"text":"我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。"},{"start":23835.45,"end":23835.61,"text":"當然啦。當然啦。"},{"start":23851.508,"end":23875.709,"text":"我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的"},{"start":23878.792,"end":23902.922,"text":"而且千萬不要看它這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對它的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且它是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格"},{"start":23904.102,"end":23926.197,"text":"我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎"},{"start":23927.518,"end":23945.509,"text":"這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏"},{"start":23946.61,"end":23963.405,"text":"原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應"},{"start":23965.216,"end":23984.001,"text":"好的,包括這次永豐這家廠商占據這麼大的量,但在製程過程中發生了問題,造成整個供需的失調,這個很活生生的經驗,那衛福部,我想部長也清楚,520之後我們上來,我第一次請衛福部來跟我做報告的就是這個事情。"},{"start":23984.321,"end":24008.915,"text":"所以我一路的緊追。你們有資料嗎?後續提供給我可以嗎?好的。接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無。無法源依據。沒有PMF的核備函。還有出狀況無理賠。這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家齁。我們所有行政單位依法行政請問書意專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說。"},{"start":24012.097,"end":24033.867,"text":"緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了。所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。"},{"start":24035.577,"end":24059.01,"text":"請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的請問院長如果是禁藥要怎麼處理?"},{"start":24059.65,"end":24069.815,"text":"待會我們越談越深你聽聽看如果為依法行政所有合張的政府官員我們是不是應該主動送檢調是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF的核備函"},{"start":24088.965,"end":24091.066,"text":"本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題"},{"start":24110.936,"end":24122.261,"text":"PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水皆屬國際組織的會員國。院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國?是會員國嗎?部長進口的時候我們是不是有經過這個相似的檢驗?越南這個是大總的那應該是大總的所以你的回函告訴我全部都會員國啊越南明明就不是會員國"},{"start":24141.257,"end":24165.79,"text":"他是EU GMP捏那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嘛再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核被函有沒有核被函哇鴨雀無聲啊"},{"start":24170.731,"end":24195.351,"text":"院長、部長我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有河北海你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定外服部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信"},{"start":24196.79,"end":24210.243,"text":"蘇益出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇朱益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用"},{"start":24213.558,"end":24228.938,"text":"委員長,我想我們那個蘇耀史等還有我們的負責的同仁一定非常嚴謹的在合法...但是要他已經告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。我們在整個了解以後再跟委員做一個說明。"},{"start":24230.039,"end":24257.637,"text":"問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源它會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口"},{"start":24259.261,"end":24261.783,"text":"報告委員 這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或是製藥製藥我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定"},{"start":24282.92,"end":24297.097,"text":"本件我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛生部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料"},{"start":24297.577,"end":24317.592,"text":"那這個過程當中我請衛務再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源。部長我想這件事不用開玩笑。三、五啊。今天我所舉出來的東西三、五啊。沒有法源預計這真的是非常非常的重要。沒有許可函、何貝函什麼都沒有。我想這個問題齁後續我們再繼續來檢討。我希望"},{"start":24321.075,"end":24346.184,"text":"院長我所提出的一個問題今天我們不是垂毛求師我們在幫政府想後續會遇到的因應問題你可以認同嗎?了解謝謝委員那接下來我想請問下一個問題我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌"},{"start":24347.432,"end":24347.612,"text":"部長,報告委員﹖"},{"start":24376.752,"end":24400.551,"text":"我想這個先生你關心肺癌。肺癌的確在我們的一個目前的規範之下的確找出了相當有意義的一些陽性。我想這個也是拯救了那個這個人的生命以及他的家庭。沒關係部長你可不可以直接回答我。我們現在要請專家再研究看怎麼樣來擴大。肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件。"},{"start":24402.652,"end":24426.027,"text":"再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理"},{"start":24428.274,"end":24431.175,"text":"公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌"},{"start":24459.073,"end":24461.254,"text":"我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?"},{"start":24489.934,"end":24508.91,"text":"好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員之質詢均以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請游浩委員質詢"},{"start":24533.433,"end":24542.157,"text":"謝謝大會主席、副院長。那有請行政院長還有衛福部長。卓院長還有衛福部邱部長備詢。委員好。院長好。就接著延續著我們剛才羅廷偉委員所提到的"},{"start":24556.755,"end":24575.274,"text":"那在衛福部公布了十大死因癌症居死因之冠那佔死亡人數的四分之一那癌症治療的問題即待解決尤其像賴清德總統他有提到那這個健康台灣的願景那希望2030年減少因癌症死亡人數的三分之一"},{"start":24575.994,"end":24602.868,"text":"但是這理想很豐滿現實很骨感那來看一下除了剛才我們羅廷偉委員所提到的我們來檢視一下癌症的相關的預算那目前為了要降低那國健署他擬定了最新癌症防治計畫但是癌症篩檢的經費是明顯不足菸捐的收益早已不服使用那所以在衛福部這一次今年也首度向行政院爭取明年度的公務預算"},{"start":24603.388,"end":24606.23,"text":"我想我們要達到2030年來把癌症死亡率降低三分之一當然要整體就是委員所說的"},{"start":24631.562,"end":24653.817,"text":"篩檢是一個重要的而篩檢更應該包括到都會區跟偏鄉尤其偏鄉的老人篩檢率特別的低所以我想有時候是我們有計畫但是怎麼樣把它落實那我們現在當然是為了為了讓它爭取的篩檢更有效果現在在擬定一個整體性的一個癌症篩檢的一個計畫那從幾個常見的一個癌症的篩檢我們會把它的年齡"},{"start":24659.011,"end":24659.031,"text":"委員﹚"},{"start":24674.761,"end":24692.604,"text":"那這個民進黨執政第9年了癌有等待癌症新藥基金已經818天那從癌篩的缺口都已經31億的情況之下癌症的新藥基金就要100億那錢從哪裡來?要從衛福部的公務預算編列嗎?還是有其他的預算可以支援?"},{"start":24694.621,"end":24715.973,"text":"這個癌症百億基金我們因為依照需求當然今年我們是用健保的一個暫時支付的一個制度來給付看起來對病人是有幫助但是還沒有正式得到那個肯定的那個部分那明年就會我們擴展到60億這個就是政府的公務預算那第三年我們希望達到100億"},{"start":24717.082,"end":24743.217,"text":"所以說這個部長您所提的我的稿子就已經寫了不管是24.9億、60億到第三年的100億那在公務預算的話他沒有辦法這樣子隨意喊價那這個財政紀律的部分有當初就遵守相關的一個規範嘛難道財政紀律法那就明定成立基金需要國庫撥補以外的財源所以說癌症的基金他這不可能100億都只有有公務預算支出"},{"start":24743.797,"end":24770.134,"text":"那在目前未來的相關的籌措的財源還有哪些的作為?癌症防治基金?那癌症防治基金我們現在當然是在演繹怎麼樣設這個基金是最符合我們能夠讓癌症病人來使用。包括他是不是將來有可能也可以有社會各界企業也來幫忙。"},{"start":24774.168,"end":24786.185,"text":"整個盤增大那也許我們可以照顧更多的那個病人那在公務基金的話我想我們至少在3年內到一定有公務預算到百億這樣子"},{"start":24787.386,"end":24806.135,"text":"那本席就直接就教,在這個相關的糖捐、煙捐、酒捐都是健保所規定的財務來源。那煙捐已經開徵了,不屬於新的財務來源。那請教部長,衛福部未來會不會將所謂的糖捐、酒捐進行開徵,移入在癌症基金上?"},{"start":24810.475,"end":24814.319,"text":"還是院長要直接回答喔?部長我想院長應該想要說明一下癌症新藥的"},{"start":24829.995,"end":24851.727,"text":"讓許多癌友能夠得到一些照顧這個是國家的政策那我們一定是在財政紀律法的規範底下去尋找如何來充實這個基金那目前因為還在這個夏天度總預算的編列過程當中我們也嘗試看哪一個財源是適合的但是委員剛剛所提到那幾項還沒有的應該"},{"start":24854.589,"end":24869.934,"text":"所以說﹐糖捐、煙捐、酒捐目前是排除在外。目前其他的兩項並沒有把它納入來積極的考慮。我們希望找更多適當的裁員或是接受民間的合作跟捐助。"},{"start":24870.994,"end":24897.742,"text":"那在這裡跟院長跟部長特別的強調一下因為在不然是糖捐還是酒捐啦尤其是酒捐的話包括這個料理米酒料酒等等都是重要的民生常使用的物品那這個只要一列入的時候他知識體大他牽扯的非常深甚至會帶動整個物價又變得又一波的上漲所以說這個部分院長剛才也直接回應了不會以這個"},{"start":24898.502,"end":24898.522,"text":"委員長"},{"start":24918.59,"end":24947.562,"text":"那最近我們都常常看到許多的報導都提到這個加熱菸那加熱菸在菸案防治法他已經修正通過之後那為什麼就是這個加熱菸如果合法販售的話也可以進行合法課這個菸捐菸稅那為什麼目前來講這衛福部那還是沒有辦法把這個加熱菸的這個部分還能夠盡速讓他合法來管制那放著這龐大的稅收還不讓他課稅"},{"start":24950.116,"end":24977.256,"text":"報告委員我想我們衛福部尤其是國民健康署的專家小組是非常積極大概每個禮拜都在開風險評估會議但目前大概有12家有意願來申請那大概有4家有進行到某一個程度可是再來要補件的時候他們都沒有補過來所以有時候沒辦法審下去"},{"start":24978.373,"end":25003.462,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們都很清楚的可以把整個現在所有進度呈現給大家看那我是想說應該是要呈現就要呈現因為要讓社會各界知道其實像這種新興菸品本來就應該列入這個法的管制啦那這樣子的話對於民眾來講應該做整體的環境應該是更為健全啦尤其是在歐美許多的國家其實在這些新興菸品"},{"start":25004.422,"end":25021.016,"text":"對我在管制在內同樣的在剛才提到這個基金的部分還或是癌症相關的經費的來源那把這個加熱菸還能夠把它進行這個未來課稅的一個重點或是菸捐的重點我相信對於國民健康來講"},{"start":25021.596,"end":25038.268,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":25039.944,"end":25063.125,"text":"加熱鹽現在目前來講都是這個水貨商都賺走嘛那這個部分等同於都是我們國民的稅收那這樣子加熱鹽卡在健康風險評估的審查那在他們的補件他們需要請他們加快補件以及在這個程序上要如何才能夠去做加強才能夠讓這樣子的一個法制的管理上是能夠讓他確實可行"},{"start":25064.66,"end":25088.469,"text":"是的,我們一切一定按照依法辦理尤其在審查的過程當中其實這是國家大事所以也是大家都可以注意的我想它的過程絕對是透明、公開、而且公平給大家可以來評斷的,這個請放心至於其他水源那個部分可能就是要依法辦理這樣子"},{"start":25089.059,"end":25105.277,"text":"沒錯那本期還是在跟院長跟部長還特別也希望說在這個國民健康是非常的重要也是癌症的這個部分他的經費來源同樣重要那在包括目前來講是剛才也院長也承諾了"},{"start":25105.657,"end":25130.179,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":25130.299,"end":25130.319,"text":"謝謝委員長"},{"start":25145.68,"end":25171.778,"text":"那延續著剛才癌症新藥以外那另外一個用藥問題也為全國男性同胞請命在這個所謂的公費的HPV疫苗接種的決策2018年12月推動國中女生公費HPV疫苗接種非常棒的決策那這個部分也確實HPV的病毒是導致女性子宮頸癌的元兇還包括是男性口炎癌的隱藏殺手那相關的數據我這邊就不再強調"},{"start":25172.739,"end":25197.961,"text":"那我想直接就教於院長或部長那如何在什麼時間點或是現在是不是可以開始進行這個我國的國中兩性的全面的公費接種HPV疫苗報告委員我想謝謝委員關心這個HPV對男生女生以及對男生的在癌症預防方面的一個好處"},{"start":25198.803,"end":25216.928,"text":"那我想國建署也爭取到議編的機會應該是明年就可以在國中同時在藍營同時來開打好那再次謝謝部長那院長這部分您也要補充一下嗎因為70個國家都實施了我國明年也會實施院長你要特別"},{"start":25218.195,"end":25231.192,"text":"謝謝委員同樣的問題部長在先前的資訊當中也答覆過時程就誠如部長所說的那我們再朝這個時間再做好準備OK好謝謝那接著我就再問勞工議題有請勞動部長那魏部長謝謝勞動部長"},{"start":25235.68,"end":25262.619,"text":"那直接延續剛才有提到我邊講因為時間有限在熱傷害的議題那這個過去我也是勞工背景出身的那這個熱傷害的議題那如果說國建署他是積極呼籲保持涼爽多喝白開水提高警覺這個對勞工來講他並沒有實際意義那像剛才有提到在李昆哲委有提到在質詢的時候八月會做一個法制的檢討"},{"start":25263.76,"end":25288.07,"text":"那我們也很遺憾的看到在昨天的時候新北的板橋工人也是一樣熱中暑熱酸衰竭倒臥陰架搶救不治那同樣許多的法規法令的修正那如果說是用生命來換回那我講實在這都是悲劇那我想接著直接請教一下部長對於高溫假或是高溫今天您的看法"},{"start":25289.168,"end":25312.061,"text":"委員我們目前就是這整個國際上是還沒有所謂高溫價這個高溫價在中東已經實施喔在伊拉克伊朗都有實施因為全球暖化的情況之下許多的國家老族陸續有高溫價喔是是委員他們那個是就是沙漠國家嗎對沙漠國家這是因應全球暖化大家都陸續都在演繹"},{"start":25312.441,"end":25336.327,"text":"可是我們現在會研究因應這個高溫的這個避難勞工他該有的這個避難的設備或設施的立功我直接跟部長回應今天勞工或是僱主他們除了避難避難都已經是後端了那在事前來講的話其實在高溫的尤其是現在暖化的極端汽油之下其實本來高溫的這種情況本來就非常的嚴重那高溫價的議題跟高溫今天的議題討論本來也不是新議題了"},{"start":25339.048,"end":25367.831,"text":"那我在想部長這個部分是不是可以拿出比較具體的比較正向的態度來看待高溫價或高溫津貼?我們現在其實也正在研究針對高溫的問題是不是有可能有一種避難的彈性的工作的安排這個不能說資料準備到避難這個可能是會針對比較有實際的效用因為其實你牽涉到放假勞資雙方都有不同的意見這樣子那麼我們如果要讓勞工真正能夠"},{"start":25368.812,"end":25374.096,"text":"我直接講說避難的這個部分或是相關的設施措施這個部分他不是用人命上面來去做一個就是後面的一個補強或回應"},{"start":25391.79,"end":25419.923,"text":"資料不是說8月要檢討一個整體法制的時候不是說就只有檢討避難措施或是雇主責任而是在這個相關的不管是假的部分以及包括它津貼的部分都應該一併的納入考量納入檢討來講不是說多少溫度以上多少的達到標準的話才能夠進行這個高溫加或高溫津貼應該在考量這個法制的修正來講就應該要整體而不是只局限於說避難那本期還是請這個部長還有包括院長"},{"start":25420.963,"end":25426.429,"text":"針對高溫價、高溫津貼在8月的討論的時候納入總組合之中,院長這樣是否可以?"},{"start":25427.961,"end":25429.221,"text":"好,那這個部分我會提出相關的法案。OK,謝謝。"},{"start":25457.128,"end":25474.625,"text":"好 謝謝有委員楊耀委員之質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位我們請王正旭委員質詢"},{"start":25493.491,"end":25498.174,"text":"謝謝主席。有請院長。請卓院長備詢。委員長好。非常謝謝院長的引領,讓我有機會進入國會、殿堂來服務,替我熱愛的國家"},{"start":25520.677,"end":25537.715,"text":"跟自愛的鄉親民眾們,略盡一份綿薄之力,我一定會全力以赴。謝謝王委員,您在癌症方面的專業是全民都景仰的,希望您在這方面多提供政府許多寶貴的意見,我們共同努力。"},{"start":25538.342,"end":25538.842,"text":"﹚主席"},{"start":25553.769,"end":25568.763,"text":"祝福臺灣健康的這個機會。我們也知道在2030年總統很希望能夠把癌症的死亡率可以減低三分之一。意思就是說在以2022年為例的話"},{"start":25571.03,"end":25590.516,"text":"希望在未來把一萬五千個癌症病人可以免於這個癌症的死亡那當然這個是一個很重要很需要大家一起來努力的目標所以為了要達到這個目標有賴卓院長領導的AI內閣能夠來全力的促成"},{"start":25592.412,"end":25620.244,"text":"我們也知道其實行政院的政務非常的繁忙為了要推動全國各項的這些政務一共設立了45個政務編組其中有18個是屬於法律相關的這些要求另外有27個是屬於依照業務的需要而設立的其中有一項就是中央癌症防治匯報"},{"start":25621.621,"end":25645.943,"text":"所以這一部分依照目前癌症防治法的規定行政院為了要執行癌症防治政策要設立中央防治會報當然由院長來擔任這個召集人每一年至少要開會一次這是目前法律的要求之下那我們也可以"},{"start":25646.704,"end":25672.489,"text":"根據現有的這個任務編組看出來他的法定頻率其實是有非常不一樣的地方包括以治安會報來看他每兩個月就要召開一次那如果以國家永續發展委員會為例的話他是在由國發會擔任幕僚機關一年會需要開會一到兩次那可是為了要因應"},{"start":25674.216,"end":25701.014,"text":"複雜、龐大的工作工作分組跟專案小組他就要另外要求每3到6個月要召開一次的會議那如果以現有的衛福部相關的任務編組來看的話食品安全的匯報每3個月一次可是中央癌症防治匯報我們剛看到的就是至少一年一次這部分請問院長你知道之前開會的記錄狀況如何嗎"},{"start":25704.414,"end":25704.934,"text":"沒錯,因為癌症"},{"start":25726.592,"end":25753.511,"text":"國民的健康造成的危害實在是非常的大而且對於整個民眾財政的負擔對國家的財政負擔也非常非常的嚴重所以我們很期待有更好的開會頻率的同時也能夠加強它的效率我們可以看一下這個數據的確過去這8年多以來民政黨民進黨執政以後一年真的是開一次會議而且相關的會議"},{"start":25754.872,"end":25778.998,"text":"在賴總統擔任院長的時候他是親自主持全城院長他在擔任這個院長的時候他也是親自主持一個是醫師一個是這個公衛的專家所以他們會對於這個會報的主持是非常的希望能夠達到他的目標那不知道院長您將來有機會會來親自主持嗎"},{"start":25782.832,"end":25797.61,"text":"這個請委員放心雖然我本身沒有醫師的專業的知識但是我始終記得賴總統在競選的前後以及當選之後他一直在思索一個問題身為一個醫師出身的總統應該為台灣多做一些什麼事情"},{"start":25798.151,"end":25824.021,"text":"他也用這樣的想法來交付我所有的工作所以包括這麼重要的工作我們在健康台灣的論壇以後來的深耕計畫以及現在要提出的癌症新藥各種方面我們都一一在落實他過去的想法所以未來這樣重大的會議我跟委員表示我也保證我一定親自主持邀請所有的專家跟與會的所有人來共同商量尤其我們在癌症新藥基金成立的前後我想一定會召開這樣的會議"},{"start":25825.848,"end":25844.889,"text":"非常感謝院長不過如果我們再從這個國家永續發展委員會為例的話剛剛我們也知道他其實依照規定是一年召開一到兩次可是因為他的任務真的非常非常的繁複、龐雜所以呢他會設計的各種工作的分組跟專案的小組"},{"start":25845.35,"end":25872.602,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":25873.121,"end":25899.972,"text":"實行狀況可不可以根據現有的公費、癌篩的癌別來做一些分組。未來在執行的時候可以更有效率而且可以讓這些專家們能夠發揮他在提供各種意見的同時更有好的模式來推展整個癌症的防治。剛剛也有很多委員非常關心有關癌症防治尤其在篩檢的部分那這部分"},{"start":25901.598,"end":25930.892,"text":"院長您可以承諾在召開頻率還有在各方面的努力都可以有透過這個癌症防治匯報架構上的處理來讓這個工作可以更落實嗎?謝謝讓這個會議更有功能更有效率這未來一定要朝這個方向做我想除了邱部長之外我還會請陳時中政委也發揮他在這方面的這個專業我們共同來研立如何將委員所建議的這幾項或許還有其他的"},{"start":25931.352,"end":25939.018,"text":"是的,謝謝因為我們知道過去其實相關的部門也非常的努力來做一些癌症的篩檢那我們看到的數據就是癌症篩檢的比例相對來講是到30%到50%不等"},{"start":25959.435,"end":25975.911,"text":"當然這個跟相對其他的一些國家來比並沒有比較差可是如果我們真的希望在2030年要減低這個癌症死亡率的話我們的癌篩一定要再努力的加強不管是在這個項目的"},{"start":25976.732,"end":25976.752,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":25993.573,"end":26021.91,"text":"再過來我們需要關心的就是費用的問題。剛剛有委員也提到這個很擔心這個癌篩費用的經費到底夠不夠。因為我們從這個數據看起來這個菸捐的確相對也是逐年好像受到一些影響。那明年在編列預算上可能會有一些短缺。那這部分院長有沒有什麼更好的方案可以來讓我們這個費用的編列可以達到相關的目標。"},{"start":26023.989,"end":26024.389,"text":"請部長回答"},{"start":26045.151,"end":26073.906,"text":"因為這個癌症的篩檢其實不管是在量或者是它幾乎方面都從一開始到現在幾乎都沒有改變所以如何要怎麼樣提升當然我們要從它的年齡層是不是要擴大還有每一個檢查篩檢現在所有的成本幾乎都提高了所以在幾乎方面也應該要多一點那我們這樣子國健署最近也提出一個整體的癌症的"},{"start":26074.582,"end":26092.261,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":26092.455,"end":26108.936,"text":"好,根據癌症防治法,其實篩檢的費用主要是來自於原品健康福利捐,不過其實它裡面也有規定,或者是也有要求,或者是接受機構團體之捐助,所以同樣的"},{"start":26110.177,"end":26133.627,"text":"如果將來有機會的話我們希望有更多的社會的善心團體或者是一些企業經營企業有成的這些人士們能不能夠針對這個國家未來在癌症篩檢的部分也能夠善盡一份的心力那這部分也麻煩院長有機會的話可以多鼓勵或者是用其他的方式來引導這些團體願意把經費能夠挹注進來"},{"start":26137.429,"end":26150.811,"text":"台灣的社會一直充滿愛心,從過去也不乏這個例子,捐助給醫療機構很大筆的研究或是相關的費用。我想未來我們還是需要民間多方的捐助,公私部門通力來合作。"},{"start":26152.675,"end":26171.07,"text":"麻煩院長。再過來就是有關你口腔癌的部分。其實我們知道口腔癌針對於很多的勞工朋友他是一個很重大的一個議題。因為他們在生活的過程裡面很有可能會因為這個工作的需要而具有這些生活習慣,包括喝酒。"},{"start":26172.293,"end":26200.769,"text":"還有嚼食檳榔跟抽香菸如果有這些習慣的話他得到口腔癌的機會真的是非常非常的高以前葛教授所做的研究甚至高到123倍如果三個都有的話如果是以吃檳榔為例它會提高到28倍所以檳榔真的是一個口腔癌一個重要的因子它對於這些勞工朋友的影響非常非常的大那對於口腔癌如果能夠篩檢的話的確它的效果也非常非常的好"},{"start":26202.102,"end":26224.719,"text":"可是我們目前比較關心的就是檳榔入法的狀況目前針對檳榔的防治其實只有在兒少法跟學校衛生法裡面去要求兒童少年跟高中年級以下的這些同學們不能夠絞食檳榔其他的部分相對規範就非常非常的有限"},{"start":26225.6,"end":26243.583,"text":"所以未來如何有機會跟戀愛防治法一樣能夠進行好的主管機關的規範管理方式跟辦理防治教育跟宣傳等等這一部分院長將來有沒有機會能夠促成這個部分因為目前對於"},{"start":26245.06,"end":26263.831,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":26264.151,"end":26289.793,"text":"並不是要讓民眾不抽香煙這麼簡單,因為這是很困難完全能夠進絕的,我們希望是一個良好的管制,所以如果能夠比照相關在煙品上加注檢語或者是對於檳榔產製的販售,有一些基本的衛生管理,那這個是由哪一個主管機關來管理,院長這部分可不可以有更好的指示來讓相關單位可以辦理。"},{"start":26291.051,"end":26308.737,"text":"報告委員這個工作我們一直很審慎的在進行因為要考慮到過去到現在很多農民他們自己在從事生技上的問題但是從108年開始我們也持續對於檳榔廢園跟轉作做了相當多的努力目前執行了有658公頃的轉作那現在這個計畫還繼續在執行當中會進行到2026年那希望能夠"},{"start":26317.332,"end":26341.306,"text":"逐步的減少這樣的一個籠座的面積那讓他的產生的後遺症可能降低同時也取締這些非法進口的讓他不會危害到大家的健康所以但是現行要檢討檳榔危害防治管理與法規上上有不足的地方我們還要再進一步的研擬但是剛剛講的那個肺炎去轉座的作業方案還是持續在進行當中"},{"start":26342.426,"end":26369.333,"text":"是,好,謝謝。部部長再補充。我補充一下,我們繼續站在衛福部的立場,我們很關心這個對他的健康的危害,所以我們繼續盤點及精進檳榔危害管理的規範。所以我們一直在盤點國內外檳榔衛生安全及包製的這些規範,特別針對孕婦、兒童、青少年等脆弱的族群,就公共衛生及法律的層面,"},{"start":26369.96,"end":26392.91,"text":"我們綜合來評估研議,朝向也許是有檳榔危害防治專法管制的可行性。好,謝謝。那在有限的時間就麻煩院長針對於這個AI智慧醫療,尤其是如何能夠打造這個國家隊的AI能夠去成就"},{"start":26393.59,"end":26394.711,"text":"謝謝委員我們一起在健康臺灣"},{"start":26429.005,"end":26436.908,"text":"好,謝謝王委員。好,謝謝左院長。下一位我們請林淑芬委員質詢。"},{"start":26452.962,"end":26454.623,"text":"請卓院長備詢。民委好。"},{"start":26470.718,"end":26488.235,"text":"院長吳安,就是說因為勞動節放假不同步的困擾,其實對於同一機關裡面多種身份、多種制度來講,其實不只是社會很困擾,其實機關內你們行政部門也有很多的困擾。"},{"start":26489.156,"end":26506.892,"text":"那今年年初就是說內閣還沒有改組以前其實行政部門也有在討論五一勞動節是不是要延誼全國統一放假那我們的前院長陳建仁院長他表達他說他支持"},{"start":26508.133,"end":26524.469,"text":"前院長陳建仁前院長表達支持所以從行政院到人事行政總務到教育等各機關都說等跨部會研議明年有機會統一這個全國都統一放假"},{"start":26526.332,"end":26539.51,"text":"老實說,大家覺得說好像釋放出一個善意了。社會也都在期待。大家也可以理解今年一定是不可能也來不及。大家想說明年有機會的話應該可以"},{"start":26542.194,"end":26547.199,"text":"但是人事行政總署剛公布了這個明年的這個年度休假的這個假期表出來那勞動節五一勞動節仍然維持原案"},{"start":26568.377,"end":26591.877,"text":"只有適用勞基法的勞工有權利放假和出勤請求加班費其實是很多人都很失望這個我們在這裡要跟院長請示就是說你知道臺灣最重要民間壓力最大大概就是生產部門可是生產部門五一勞動節本來就放假所以像金融機關啊工業生產的各個部門啊"},{"start":26594.098,"end":26621.656,"text":"他們都同意休假也都很多人放假尤其是金融單位都放假了那我們在這裡講說在剩下的除了不適用勞基法的以外那最多人數最多就是公務機關公務員那最可憐的像最難受的像莫過於像育兒階段的老師自己沒有辦法顧自己的小孩還要到學校去顧去上課然後顧大家的小孩"},{"start":26622.716,"end":26645.093,"text":"那沒有適用勞基法的人還必須要上班然後請人去照顧自己的小孩或者是自行請假這種狀況裡面真的是很多困擾這個院長有沒有機會讓我們可以期待明年2025年這個休假期一五一勞動節全國都來放假"},{"start":26648.522,"end":26648.562,"text":"平年?"},{"start":26668.12,"end":26691.736,"text":"今年公布明年的行事曆所以明年還是維持所值的理由是什麼陳建仁前院長在這裡本來就已經大家期待說他認為是他支持的跟委員報告這個我承認還有很多的溝通還沒有辦法完全的進行到最大的困擾是什麼對大家各方面的意見都有啦表示說這個"},{"start":26693.314,"end":26720.615,"text":"這樣的放假會不會帶動其他的相關個別的身份類別的一個討論?那我們覺得這個有必要在... 因為台灣800萬、1000萬的勞工都放假了是用勞基法的只剩下幾乎最多的就剩下公務人員我就說我承認我們在這個尋求共識的過程當中今年還沒有這麼順利但我們會繼續的跟大家在探索最好的模式是怎麼樣那未來我們再從長計議"},{"start":26722.073,"end":26742.373,"text":"那如果是這樣的話,其實你們有,行政部門有回覆給我們啦。他講的一個是說,這個因為以前立法院24年前做過一個決議啦,這個機關的放假日不能夠再更多了。那我認為這不是理由。立法院的決議從來就沒有這麼的有效力過。其實真正的原因是成本。"},{"start":26743.453,"end":26771.207,"text":"但是你都願意給軍公教加薪了那我們也請院長解決勞動解全國放假不一致的這個問題但至少在這裡先承諾我們說你多久以內會召集這個跨部會研議因為據我們所知行政部門陳建仁院長雖然支持這樣的方向但是從來沒有開過跨部會研議的會議啊那"},{"start":26771.807,"end":26792.922,"text":"我們是不是能夠請卓院長有魄力那就大刀闊斧的就了解或請這個內政部跟勞動部一起開會討論然後行政院召集相關的單位共同協商朝全國放假一致的方向去研議可不可以"},{"start":26793.744,"end":26811.025,"text":"報告委員這個重要的幾個部會我們雖然沒有召集會議的形式但個別的詢問徵詢都是有的而得出來的結果是大家意見還沒有辦法趨於一致甚至包括外界也是這個樣子所以這個公務機關而已沒有外界經濟部門產業部門都放假了"},{"start":26811.325,"end":26812.105,"text":"時間適當的時間再跟委員來報告"},{"start":26841.188,"end":26860.624,"text":"這個這個是很重要的,因為事實上我們都知道現在只剩下公務機關的人數是最多的,其他全國都放假,可是一個機關不同調,一個社會也不同調,真的有很多很多的困擾,要不然差這幾天說不定我們下去死了。那另外呢,我們也接下來要討論的是SRF的問題,我想這個"},{"start":26864.52,"end":26873.687,"text":"委員長克林,SRF大家討論都是桃園這個個案的爭議,但我沒有要談桃園這個個案的爭議,我其實要談的是制度面的問題。部長,我們都知道環境部已經啟動了SRF的營運體檢輔導團,"},{"start":26884.395,"end":26898.243,"text":"要針對各場進行體檢,那就原料製造端和在使用端上都一直要體檢這樣子,要一起做。那你也提出了幾個改靜的方案,但是我在這裡可能要跟部長再討論一下更細節。第一個,"},{"start":26900.124,"end":26902.467,"text":"實用SRF作為燃料的工廠,這5年內,過去5年,抽驗了17個工廠,一共217根的管道,其中99%檢驗出帶澳芯。"},{"start":26917.123,"end":26944.85,"text":"兩百一十七根的煙囪管道裡面只有兩根的煙道裡面代澳鋅是零其他百分之九十九都檢出代澳鋅代澳鋅的這個多或少只是這樣的差異若以現在既有的固定污染源代澳鋅的排放標準來看這兩百一十七根新設污染源的排放標準值都應該要小於0.5耐克"},{"start":26946.65,"end":26946.93,"text":"﹚中文字幕"},{"start":26967.097,"end":26993.705,"text":"因為工業部門使用的鍋爐所產生的空氣污染的排放標準你們當然是希望它嚴格一點因為你知道有污染的固定污染源或者是這個焚化廠他們在做還品的時候其實都有相當的這個標準設置標準的比如說它是不在人口密度高的地方不會在人口密度高的都市的中間去設置的可是"},{"start":26994.685,"end":27006.268,"text":"不要忘了工業生產的工廠其實人口活動人口密度是相當高的所以以鍋爐的空氣污染排放標準來講我們的那個標準應該小於0.1奈克在這種狀況裡面你檢出大躍興就有15根的煙道超標而且重點是"},{"start":27015.111,"end":27033.933,"text":"﹗"},{"start":27034.233,"end":27034.253,"text":"﹚一、"},{"start":27058.388,"end":27081.419,"text":"台泥2020年9月採樣的花蓮的和平廠為例啊,它的代號新濃度不是你們的這個0.1奈克,而是減出0.215奈克。所以根據這個你們新修的鍋爐空氣污染排放標準的話,你們還說除了水泥液以外都要"},{"start":27082.139,"end":27082.379,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":27098.652,"end":27122.838,"text":"其實有兩個部分因為過去呢這個對於這個SRF的製造其實他非常的含混所以我們的預期的體檢之後會有顯著的分級如果分級之後其實他如果燒的料是正確的白料就沒有這樣的問題沒有強制力部長你莫多加呼嚨我們沒有強制力的分級你國家的管制標準是產品標準你們仍然是最低標準"},{"start":27123.737,"end":27149.515,"text":"你這個分級只是建議沒有強制力報告委員這個我們會用強制提升到管理的辦法來處理因為過去是指引而已那另外一個委員強調的是在水泥窯的部分其實我們未來會為什麼要排除水泥窯而現在所有的跡象和證據還有採樣的樣本都證明水泥窯不但不像葉哲說的我們不會燒出代號心而且還燒出超標的代號心了"},{"start":27150.055,"end":27164.737,"text":"報告委員這個我們現在所有的第一個是一定會比照全部都要有那水泥因為過去他們的專業認知是因為他的溫度高所以大澳溪燒不出來可是食物面就是撿出阿對所以這個部分我們會比照新的辦法所以我們那個辦法"},{"start":27165.418,"end":27166.479,"text":"這個目前只是草案,所以委員的意見我們會把它放進去。"},{"start":27183.126,"end":27208.419,"text":"謝謝,那我們現在講說工業鍋爐你知道工業區其實就在住宅區旁邊啊工業區進進出出的活動的人相當多人口密度相當的高所以工業鍋爐燃燒什麼東西其實是會影響受體的就工業區的排放大家都會吸得到的嘛那以前那時候這個大躍興排放潛勢比較低的這個煤炭"},{"start":27209.6,"end":27220.07,"text":"那大家都覺得不需要檢測嘛,可是現在你要混燒了,工業鍋爐可以燒SRF,SRF會產生大腰心,甚至現在產出大家檢測到甚至還有這個塑化劑。"},{"start":27226.056,"end":27238.482,"text":"所以但是在整個燒你們有管制標準排放的標準可是它是混燒混燒它燃煤然後也燒SRF但是呢混燒的狀況它會稀釋掉這個代澳鋅的濃度"},{"start":27243.064,"end":27263.383,"text":"所以現行規劃採用專燒垃圾的焚化爐的代號性排放標準來規範是混燒一定比例SRF的工業鍋爐那麼這些稀釋的效應會讓工業鍋爐很容易就達標他沒有違反這個規定沒有超出排放標準"},{"start":27264.264,"end":27285.244,"text":"可是我們都知道工業鍋爐的規模龐大排氣量甚至是焚化爐的好幾倍而透過稀釋混燒而達標的這個廢氣它的帶澳心的濃度在乘以龐大的這個排氣量以後它的排放量總量總量"},{"start":27287.566,"end":27311.946,"text":"他可能不下於焚化爐而這樣排放的加成作用環境部真的有思考到嗎?報告委員其實這個部分因為現在有17個在使用這個SRF的這個所謂的工業用的或是說水泥窯其實我們未來會全部的逐一的加嚴到標準所以委員提到的問題我們的確現在未來在這個你們的草案你們標準恐怕還太寬鬆另外再講"},{"start":27314.568,"end":27315.529,"text":"因為時間有限我最後講喔"},{"start":27333.945,"end":27360.125,"text":"所以你們現在以焚化廢棄而行SRF之名的這種疑慮都還存在用最低的品質最低的門檻然後誰有動機會做出好的一點的SRF呢所以最後再講SRF製造廠有49家那使用廠有17家你們不斷的開放設立製造廠那製造的人越來越多產出的量越來越多可是這個它的原料變少了"},{"start":27361.246,"end":27371.79,"text":"那廢棄物供給量供給量不足他為了充產能會不會鋌而走險使用不可作為固體再生燃料廢棄物的原料或是進口廢棄物來製造SRF呢?報告委員不會有進口會因為你們的"},{"start":27396.737,"end":27396.757,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":27408.215,"end":27414.307,"text":"好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長。八院會休息10分鐘,休息之後繼續進行質詢,現在休息。"},{"start":28037.14,"end":28056.016,"text":"報告委員會現在繼續開會。請邱委員若法質詢。謝謝主席。有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。"},{"start":28066.84,"end":28078.939,"text":"委員好 院長午安 那首先先來請問院長一個問題 院長請問您知道算至今年2月我國全臺縣市人口成長率排名第一的是哪一個縣市嗎"},{"start":28080.302,"end":28107.391,"text":"全國縣市人口成長率就所知桃園是增加很快的沒錯第一名是就是我們桃園市那根據內政部最新人口統計全臺縣市人口成長率排名第一就是我們桃園市年增率達1.32%一年內增加了3萬人大約3萬人那桃園市近一年的人口成長幅度最多的行政區我們依序來看首先是貴山區年長幅是"},{"start":28108.527,"end":28109.668,"text":"委員長,請問這樣人口爆炸性的成長這是我們10年前能預見的嗎?"},{"start":28124.35,"end":28138.731,"text":"應該不是,所以我們的一些公共的事是跟一些相關的配備要補得上來、趕得上來。對,跟著提升嘛。那就是因為2014年桃園升格為直轄市之後,社會福利變多了嘛,重大的公共建設。"},{"start":28139.702,"end":28144.885,"text":"南桃園有天成醫療體系聯興國際醫院還有衛生福利部的桃園醫院等可以說是醫療資源相當的豐富但是院長桃園人口成長最多的地方是龜山區、觀音區還有桃園區這些都是北桃園"},{"start":28163.815,"end":28184.969,"text":"那是我們的醫療區域已經10多年沒有來做調整了。桃園市2010年是200萬人,到最新的統計已經達232萬人。232萬人,成長了32萬人,這樣是什麼樣一個概念?就是直逼一個基隆市的人口。那反觀基隆市人口持續的外流,從38萬人已經萎縮到36萬人。"},{"start":28188.166,"end":28188.346,"text":"巴德區人口"},{"start":28218.134,"end":28219.915,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個桃園的醫療資源的一個分布的確在巴德地區人口已經超過已經達20萬因此我們"},{"start":28245.509,"end":28270.057,"text":"已經把臺灣市的次醫療區由兩區變成三區,新增加的巴德次醫療區。那這個床數的話我們會再來精算。那目前,大概...那這邊呃,本席告訴部長齁,如果從兩處的次醫療區域調整為三個嘛,就是這個範圍包括巴德、大溪、復興、平鎮、龍潭,那床數可以增加1528床。"},{"start":28274.451,"end":28294.084,"text":"每萬人不能超過50張的急性還有慢性一般病狀。院長關於巴德次醫療園區這件事分為兩個層次。第一個是巴德以及鄰近的人口我們看到增加如此快速那是否還適用我們的次醫療區院區這是第一個問題。"},{"start":28294.844,"end":28308.61,"text":"那另外那桃園進來桃園整個人口都在提升北桃園的其實相對是非常缺乏醫療資源那是否我們北桃園人需要自己的區域醫院請院長部長說明"},{"start":28310.231,"end":28333.873,"text":"我們如果用均衡臺灣的理念來看,各地的各項的公共設施的配比應該要讓它合理均勻化。但是也考慮到地方的配合,很多的包括土地啦,包括人力啦,包括經費,這個都要一併考慮在內。那應該衛福部會有詳細的、詳實的計畫。各位部委員報告一下,我們在109年2月12日已經席可八德。"},{"start":28334.786,"end":28360.928,"text":"長榮醫院的設立這個在八德區病床的規模大概100急性一般病床150床那這個部分已經合格那在111年5月原則同意清華大學新設立桃園護舍醫院這個在大園病床規模為急性一般病床200床及精神病床達30床另外桃園市政府好像也有意義要設置市立醫院"},{"start":28361.738,"end":28382.234,"text":"那一般病床也達到100床,這個也可以由臺灣市政府向衛福部提出申請。是,部長其實將兩個區域劃為三個一直是我們臺灣市政府提出的,那巴德您有提到巴德偵測醫院那都還沒有新建中,所以巴德大西的民眾他們都必須要到新北市鄰近的醫院來就醫。"},{"start":28382.754,"end":28392.122,"text":"那剛才講到我們桃園市政府衛生局嘛那根據衛生局統計啊一般急性一般還有的病床是7919床桃園次區域是5253床中壢的次區域是2666床平均每萬人口35床每萬人口是35床"},{"start":28402.83,"end":28426.029,"text":"那雖然衛福部醫生會另外通過1894床的急性一般病床但這些都還是本期剛才說到籌建中的醫院比如說像是聖保祿醫院還有我們的國軍桃園總醫院增設的病床長遠看下來我們地方真的很需要醫療資源重新的合理來分配那最重要的是要重新的劃分次醫療區"},{"start":28427.751,"end":28446.107,"text":"是的,我想花粉是醫療區域的區域就是希望能夠把資源分配的讓民眾的可敬性醫療可敬性能夠增加而且能夠由各個醫院整個由各級從比較大的醫院到小的醫院到基層醫療聯合起來所以我想我們"},{"start":28449.75,"end":28475.669,"text":"我們已經先公布這個將會都設一個區域那我們會去了解到整個要興建的或者是已經通過的整個來做一個檢討我想我們這個部分檢討以後我們再跟那個委員您報告我們共同來思考怎麼樣來充實這裡的醫療資源那同時院長可否請您回去就上開的問題啊接通我們桃園市政府還有衛生"},{"start":28476.611,"end":28502.261,"text":"衛福部等相關的單位來共同討論符合桃園的發展對策。我們也不能每一次每一次政策都在邊緣性的來做修改嘛。那隨著我們人口也高齡化對於醫療的需求會更加深。桃園現在的情況也不是當初的規劃次醫療區的情況。我們為什麼不一剛開始呢就把這個事情做到為給我們桃園的一個安身利命的好環境。"},{"start":28503.041,"end":28512.97,"text":"那克珀琴院長回去就本席提出的問題像是重新畫設治醫療區然後還有給巴德一個區域型的醫院來就討論那可以在兩個月內開會完畢嗎?"},{"start":28516.221,"end":28517.222,"text":"院長您知道早期療癒和復健之間的分水嶺在哪嗎?"},{"start":28545.66,"end":28553.005,"text":"早期療癒還有復健6歲之前叫早期療癒6歲之後叫做復健那院長部長根據衛福部統計臺灣的早期療癒服務跟通報人數我們從2011年來看齊是逐步的緩"},{"start":28562.852,"end":28580.38,"text":"那平均每年增加7%2019年在疫情爆發之前通報人數已經超過25000人了2020還有2021因為受到新冠疫情的影響沒有明顯的波動那疫情解封之後我們看到2022通報人數大幅的上升2023年通報的人數高達34780人"},{"start":28585.282,"end":28608.865,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":28609.195,"end":28635.13,"text":"特教資源系統但很多孩子雖然年紀已經超過6歲他們還是有繼續復健的必要性那請問院長你有注意過這個問題嗎?這個問題我們曾經接觸過很多找療的單位包括在台南各地他們都有對這些早期發展比較遲緩的或是需要照顧的小孩子做了很多這個學前的一些輔導的工作"},{"start":28636.65,"end":28659.197,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長有關心到這個問題。那我們這邊要來討論的是,針對特殊境遇的家庭,如果他們,特殊境遇的家庭,如果他們碰上有持續需要找療或是復健的孩子,家庭的負擔是非常沉重的,相信院長和部長都知道。也許執政者會說,如果他們有身心障礙手冊的話,他們可以來申請復康巴士。"},{"start":28659.497,"end":28674.974,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":28675.612,"end":28675.712,"text":"您認同嗎?"},{"start":28698.845,"end":28715.985,"text":"拜訪委員認同,而且我們除了早療的一個早期的發現,我們現在的努力是把早期發現,然後發現有一個早療的治療以後也連結到醫療的機構,那這個部分在量能方面這幾年擴展得非常的大。"},{"start":28717.473,"end":28719.155,"text":"因為我們現在看到針對弱勢家庭還有特殊境遇的家庭本席有請教臺北市政府"},{"start":28740.194,"end":28761.483,"text":"他們有施行這個政策一年需要增加多少預算我們得到的答案是兩百多萬元其實兩百多萬元其實這樣子並不算高可是如果我們來支持他們可以讓特殊監獄的曼菲爾家庭有希望並給予他們最及時的幫助院長這樣的德政我們是否可以全國統一的來施行"},{"start":28762.443,"end":28763.424,"text":"我們馬上再來了解來精進來精進"},{"start":28777.169,"end":28800.006,"text":"是,那再請部長回去做研究。那本身要說對於我們資源比較集中的北部、北台灣都還需要這樣的補助。那更何況是資源較匱乏的其他偏鄉地區。那這個制度一旦施行的話,可以有拋磚引玉的作用。那其他的單位也可以陸續的加入,並且投入關注這樣的情況。"},{"start":28801.937,"end":28802.297,"text":"可不可以請委員在"},{"start":28825.705,"end":28849.592,"text":"我們希望能夠推動弱勢兒童還有少年醫療補助,讓6歲以上未滿18歲的弱勢兒少,也可以申請健保不給付需自費發展,遲緩療癒的教育訓練費用。我想只要弱勢家庭需要幫忙的,不管是在健保或者是在社福方面,應該都會給他最大的支持。"},{"start":28850.78,"end":28877.823,"text":"那希望衛福部這邊可以持續來做關注那包括罕見疾病還有重大傷病的兒童我們這小孩子的照顧是我們非常重中之重OK再拜託部長請衛福研議這個方式好謝謝那我們接下來看遠距離醫療一條龍看診還有領藥院長我們桃園雖然整體來說給人家交通方便整體來說交通方便的印象但是桃園其實有交通不便利的偏鄉部長您知道是哪裡嗎"},{"start":28881.092,"end":28906.109,"text":"我們桃園的偏鄉桃園的偏鄉對您知道是哪裡嗎請委員指教是我們桃園的復興區復興鄉復興復興那我們桃園市政府為了減緩偏鄉育媽咪看診的不方便辦了一個叫做線上看診APP的遠端服務那因為山區的交通相當的不方便目前也沒有復產"},{"start":28907.483,"end":28908.504,"text":"請問院長您認為這個政策如何?"},{"start":28921.681,"end":28923.902,"text":"我看了一下我們全民健康保險遠距醫療幾戶計畫專門科"},{"start":28943.226,"end":28943.406,"text":"這個可以"},{"start":28960.049,"end":28960.309,"text":"謝謝邱委員謝謝院長"},{"start":28989.57,"end":29015.475,"text":"下一位請圖全級委員質詢好謝謝主席請我們院長還有我們的邱部長請左院長還有邱部長備詢"},{"start":29023.809,"end":29023.949,"text":"主席"},{"start":29035.185,"end":29058.918,"text":"部桃新屋分院擴建案的進度那這一部分先跟院長還有部長讓你們先了解一下這個我們時間軸那我們在108年12月3號的時候我們當時我們蔡英文總統到部桃新屋分院的時候就有講新屋分院擴建案已經核准馬上就要進行"},{"start":29059.498,"end":29075.065,"text":"完工以後可讓地方民眾就醫健康檢查更方便所以在108年的時候蔡總統宣布這個好消息說中央政府也全力支持不逃醫院所以民眾也抱有很大的期待那後來大概在109年的時候我們也"},{"start":29077.526,"end":29101.32,"text":"知道衛福部次長當時的石崇良次長也說自己的意願責無旁貸那緊接著後來我們的現在的總統我們的賴清德總統那時候在112年4月13號也是當時總統提名的第二天他也到我們部桃新屋分院他也非常關心我們偏鄉醫療"},{"start":29102.682,"end":29113.816,"text":"也說關懷到院復健的長者將持續給予部桃新屋分院更多的協助新建第二醫療大樓提供新屋關於沿海居民更多醫療的服務當時在總統在"},{"start":29117.597,"end":29132.956,"text":"去到我們部桃新屋分院的時候那時候距離大選大概30幾天那後來我們賴靖德總統是在總統提名後第二天也到部桃新屋分院那我們也非常非常的期待因為沿海的醫療資源非常匱乏"},{"start":29133.416,"end":29160.843,"text":"好這一部分也要先跟院長報告希望藉由這一次的機會希望我們院長跟部長針對我們桃園南區尤其沿海這醫療匱乏資源的問題那希望能夠多幫我們爭取這醫療資源那針對部桃新屋分院這部分部長我們現在這個進度到底到哪裡從108年說已經開始完成已經開始進行那現在到底進行到哪裡"},{"start":29161.909,"end":29178.939,"text":"請部長報告進的進度好謝謝委員那也感謝我們在前幾個禮拜去考察的時候委員也特別親自來一起來關心我們新屋這一邊尤其是海邊這一邊的醫療資源的一個興建那因為我們桃園醫院其實在"},{"start":29187.537,"end":29215.12,"text":"本來就有送一些一直在修改一些計畫然後這中間剛好承攬的廠商那個建築師在112年11月26日生故所以我們變成說重新再依照工程會的一個函我們再重新來函付在113年7月2日函付重新辦理規劃招標作業以一一一"},{"start":29216.388,"end":29217.993,"text":"三年齡,6月12號結標,現在正在演繹計畫書,我想預計"},{"start":29225.32,"end":29250.969,"text":"現在正在研擬計畫書嗎?將計畫書送給本部審查通過,我們會提報行政院來審核。好,其實這個問題那時候我們跟部長也去考察啦。相信部長對這部分的了解。那今天藉由總諮詢提出,就是希望我們卓院長能夠多幫忙。因為我們希望我們政策是有延續性的。從108年蔡總統就宣布"},{"start":29251.389,"end":29251.529,"text":"﹚第11屆第21次會議"},{"start":29277.327,"end":29304.745,"text":"跟邱部長針對我們部桃西部分院的擴建就是主要就是為我們沿海醫療資源匱乏的問題能夠盡量幫我們提升希望今年8月的時候這個部桃能夠提出他的這個計畫出來會提到衛福部我就請衛福部能夠審慎的審查希望院長部長為我們這沿海醫療資源多幫我們來爭取是好那接下來這部分可能要請我們環境部的彭部長"},{"start":29306.276,"end":29308.11,"text":"那邱部長可以先請休息"},{"start":29314.978,"end":29340.225,"text":"好,副部長,針對上個月底我們環境部我們看提出了一個新的草案,就是要把我們空污排放標準加鹽管制,還有加強料源管理並比照國際ISO,還有SRF營運體檢輔導團等等。好,這一些我們環境部針對SRF管理的修法,三大草案跟大致的方向,你看一下這個,"},{"start":29341.665,"end":29366.691,"text":"這個是我們提出三大草案的三大方向吧?對,謝謝。好,那針對這部分呢,其實部長也知道,其實現在SRF其實為什麼會大家這麼注意,就是因為我們桃園有三家SRF這垃圾發電廠的進駐。我想請問一下,民眾都說SRF根本就是垃圾焚化爐發電廠,這部分部長你對這有什麼看法?"},{"start":29367.191,"end":29381.75,"text":"報告委員,SRF它是一種再生能源,但是它不等於綠電,也不等於綠能,所以這是非常清楚的。那過去呢,其實桃園有非常多家的SRF的製造廠,它其實我真的去看過,上年後第二個禮拜就去看了。"},{"start":29382.13,"end":29405.551,"text":"也看出這個問題所以我們才很快的就有一個輔導團成立那我們也預先設置一個草案也報告委員因為這個問題還蠻大的所以我很勇於的接受這個挑戰我們9月份整個全台灣49家還有49家製造商還有17家的使用SRF的工廠我們全部會有一個體檢報告我們會把這種指引提升為管理辦法"},{"start":29406.445,"end":29420.813,"text":"好其實這部分在委員會的時候我也跟部長有提出過質詢那其實我們對彭部長的期望也很高也看我們彭部長在接受媒體訪問的時候在6月6號的時候你也有講"},{"start":29422.635,"end":29451.073,"text":"從幫助檢探的角度SRF不應該被汙名化所以我們也同意希望SRF這個標準能夠提高所以對部長我們也有很高的期望而且說實在據我們了解我那時候也知道原來我們部長也是觀音出身也算是我們觀音人我希望部長有空來觀音走一走因為觀音的鄉親對這個空窩真的是忍無可忍我們希望部長有空來觀音走走SRF不要來"},{"start":29451.673,"end":29475.929,"text":"沒問題其實報告委員其實桃園的問題因為他現在已經進入他的整個桃科已經有環評通過了所以基本上他的這個管理還是在桃園市政府因為他的一個總量管制所以這個還是要桃園市政府來決定啦那我們目前處理的是49家生產製造的包含很多在桃園那還有這個在使用的那未來如果他們開始營運我們一樣的標準會同樣的列管"},{"start":29476.277,"end":29505.139,"text":"好部長那我們先來討論一下就是我們新三法草案跟現行規範的比較齁我們看一下我們重金屬空氣污染物鉛、鋼、鎘這排放的標準這是我們新草案的排放標準嘛對不對沒錯對好這是新草案排放標準那看一下我們現在現行的現行草案的標準來比較看一下部長你看一下這個好像兩個標準是一模一樣"},{"start":29506.584,"end":29523.351,"text":"這個是我們其實還有別的標準包含戴奧辛我們是完全是比照歐盟的標準那戴奧辛我們在討論所以看起來千鞏葛三個重金屬其實我們查過就是照搬廢棄物、焚化爐、空氣污染物的排放標準其實是一模一樣"},{"start":29524.411,"end":29544.626,"text":"好那接下來我們來看因為部長剛剛有講還有代號心的部分好我們來看一下我們下一個我們代號心我們代號心的部分我們也來看齁其實跟剛剛是一樣齁也是直接磨用中巧型廢棄物氛化毒代號心管制及排放標準部長你有沒有發現其實也是一樣"},{"start":29545.106,"end":29547.088,"text":"所以其實剛剛前面我聽部長講其實部長對SRF如果講稱為垃圾焚化爐部長應該也不是很認同"},{"start":29564.826,"end":29585.22,"text":"對,其實它如果有些是白料,像我在桃園看到有的是白料的,認真的那就是OK,但是也有些真的是垃圾去壓的,那就有問題。可是我們看一下我們從重金屬,三項重金屬的排放標準,鉛、鋼、鎘,還有我們剛剛講你說代耀鋅,代耀鋅的排放標準也是比照垃圾焚化毒,所以它這個"},{"start":29585.981,"end":29586.902,"text":"不是,所以我的意思是說"},{"start":29611.439,"end":29626.256,"text":"這SRF你就是拿垃圾焚化塗的標準來做啊所以我們說SRF就是垃圾焚化塗目前看起來就是啊沒有錯啊就是至少以這個標準但是過去是完全沒有特別的標準過去是更鬆的"},{"start":29626.496,"end":29641.084,"text":"我希望部長我們針對SRF那時候你接受訪問你說要更嚴格說實在我們看到我們新修的草案根本就是搬舊的來使用也就是跟現行的規範是一模一樣那所以我們也看過"},{"start":29642.145,"end":29663.585,"text":"有好幾家其實SRF的電廠他訂的標準都比我們環境部訂的標準還嚴格所以我覺得部長處針對這部分我們要好好針對這個草案再來研議一下好 謝謝委員 這個是草案那還有討論的空間那主要我們等9月我們的那個體檢報告完整出來之後也歡迎委員逐一的來檢視"},{"start":29664.406,"end":29681.817,"text":"所以我就是希望就是草案希望提醒部長這個草案跟之前是一模一樣所以完全沒有改啊所以居然是草案希望在還能改還能加嚴的時候請部長喔這部分一定要注意我怕你沒有注意到你看這兩樣重金屬跟我們"},{"start":29682.697,"end":29701.747,"text":"大躍興最主要大躍興跟重金屬這兩樣根本就是搬舊法完全來照抄使用然後針對我們貴部3月份修正的事業廢棄物清理計畫審查第7次的修正版我們看作為SRF原料的廢棄物當中有啦這一部分有進步了齁"},{"start":29702.347,"end":29723.65,"text":"三除了污泥類,但是我要跟部長報告喔,最主要的部分我們的塑膠、橡膠也就是會產生四季之毒的黛奧辛完全還是在裡面。那針對我們大家最擔心空污最影響最嚴重的黛奧辛,我們看到還是沒有改善啊。"},{"start":29724.814,"end":29752.106,"text":"報告委員其實如果說他的鍋爐的溫度夠高他戴奧星的這個問題就可以解決所以其實我們還是要嚴格逐一的看每一個鍋爐他的溫度還有他使用的料材有多少所以基本上我們是基本上先用這個焚化爐的標準來處理這個SRF的使用場但是未來我覺得我們在等到9月份體檢報告出來了之後如果我們發現還是有混料還是產生的話會明顯的加嚴"},{"start":29752.686,"end":29761.052,"text":"部長你講的溫度就是熱值嘛對不對?熱值啊對對對好那我們來看下一步齁我們針對我們現在新草案有關SRF的規範齁我請問一下我們是根據國際哪個標準來訂定的?歐盟"},{"start":29765.868,"end":29784.384,"text":"我們就是比照 歐盟他是EN15359還是ISO21640你是用哪一個標準應該是左邊的21640 21640是我們現在算是我們最新的標準但是我們部長請你看一下你剛剛有講"},{"start":29785.645,"end":29808.099,"text":"那我們就是相同的進熱值就是大於等於2392我們來做比較你看國際的標準綠的含量小於1.5、拱的含量小於0.1但是我們新草案SRF2其實這就是我們一般現在的標準綠含量是大於等於3、拱的含量是大於等於0.15"},{"start":29809.46,"end":29822.115,"text":"所以我們一直講說要訂立嚴格的標準你看以我們相同的熱值而且你以國際相同的標準ISO21640你看我們的標準還是寬鬆非常非常多阿"},{"start":29822.814,"end":29849.754,"text":"報告委員這個只是草案我們還有討論的時間因為它只是一個預告期那我們也會遵照委員的建議我們知道如果9月出來的時候我們也會把這個意見把它採納進來對啊所以所以我就說因為是草案所以我一定要現在講你等到標準定定的時候我怕為時已晚還有我們針對我們針對我們SRF其實我看我們比較有改變的地方就是我們針對分級制度我們當初舊的規範是4級"},{"start":29851.775,"end":29851.955,"text":"﹚第11屆第1會期第2會期"},{"start":29870.319,"end":29870.72,"text":"發言委員：完整"},{"start":29883.647,"end":29901.852,"text":"報告委員這個其實等到9月我們那個體檢報告因為現在我們逐一的全台灣49家一家一家的製造廠還有使用廠我們一家一家看等到我們這個完整之後我們再來讓跟委員再討論這個問題可以嗎?好所以我現在是看到草案我就是希望凸顯我們現在針對這草案所發現的問題"},{"start":29905.333,"end":29905.353,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":29935.031,"end":29961.751,"text":"好,謝謝杜委員、謝謝卓院長。發言會本會期本院委員對行政院卓院長提出施政方針報告之質詢。自5月31日起經過6次院會10個會議日質詢,已於今日詢答完畢。謝謝卓院長及各部會首長列席答詢。在質詢結束前再請卓院長講幾句話。"},{"start":29975.198,"end":29999.534,"text":"韓院長江副院長各位委員先進各位媒體朋友大院第11屆第1會期對行政院提出施政方針報告的質詢到今天順利的完成很感謝各位委員先進在質詢的過程當中對行政院提出了很多寶貴的意見跟指教這個都是未來"},{"start":30000.514,"end":30020.544,"text":"貴我兩院要共同遵循努力的方向創造對人民最大的福祉這點再度深深的表示感謝至於在備詢當中若干不及答覆的部分我也請各部委首長能夠用書面、詳實的跟委員先進來提出一一詳細的報告"},{"start":30022.264,"end":30044.352,"text":"那未來我們還有更多的工作要共同努力。在結束了總質詢之後,行政院會以兩個雙主軸來開始國家的重大建設。一個就是經濟發展,一個就是強化治安。經濟發展的這個工作當中,我們在這個月份就會召開第一次的經濟發展委員會。我們會從創新經濟"},{"start":30050.058,"end":30070.307,"text":"軍衡臺灣以及包容成長三個主題全面的開始全面推動。那麼在強化治安的過程當中我們會從打詐、掃黑、速貪、反毒強力的執行。打詐的過程我們在過去一段時間已經看了相當多在相關部會執行的效果。"},{"start":30071.267,"end":30097.252,"text":"我們希望所有的那個守護神能夠一併的發揮更大的強大的力量讓打詐工作讓人民能夠感到心安那至於在掃黑、速貪、反毒的過程當中我們在6月25號已經展開了第一波的競評專案內容針對綠能、速貪、掃黑做全面性的檢查跟防堵那麼從今天開始"},{"start":30098.399,"end":30117.104,"text":"全國同步的掃黑及速貪行動也已經展開。讓我容我再次強調反黑、掃黑跟速貪是人民檢視政府的唯一標準。我們在掃黑跟速貪的過程當中我們不容許有任何"},{"start":30118.43,"end":30142.762,"text":"突發的事情所以這個部分我們希望能夠全面的展開在樹攤跟掃黑絕對不留情面也絕對沒有上限在樹攤跟掃黑的打掃毒當中我們也一定的要讓大家知道沒有人可以僥倖得逞也沒有在這裡有任何的模糊空間這是我們再次的強調"},{"start":30143.956,"end":30166.039,"text":"所以未來希望為我兩院繼續在國家安全、社會安定跟人民安心的工作上能夠繼續的工作。下個會期大院裡面還有對於行政院未來國家的總預算以及若干重大的法案還要繼續的拜託大家一併的支持當然還有其他的人事同意權。"},{"start":30166.994,"end":30186.465,"text":"我們期待我們共同在為許多人民所關切期待的法案的預算能夠在適時的時間內能夠通過。再次謝謝韓院長、江副院長、各位委員先進。也謝謝立法院工作的同仁們,這一次真的辛苦,給行政院很大的協助跟幫忙。祝大家身體健康,大家幸福,謝謝。"},{"start":30192.611,"end":30220.529,"text":"好,謝謝卓院長現做以下決定將各委員發言記錄及書面質詢含送行政院請就位答覆部分予以書面答覆以提出之書面質詢尚未刊登公報者一律補刊繼續處理復議案本院國民黨團針對第二次會議報告事項第48案之決定提出復議"},{"start":30221.756,"end":30229.604,"text":"請公決案現做以下決定令定期處理。報告院會本次會議進行到此為止。現在散會。"},{"start":30255.602,"end":30270.426,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30275.094,"end":30281.852,"text":"響鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}