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償付這個解約金那這個裁定之後我光是講2023年一年齁2023年1月到隔一年的9月"},{"start":50.782,"end":66.518,"text":"我們全國法院扣押保單的件數超過92萬8千件92萬8千件耶這造成法院極大的負荷而且也讓人心惶惶那壽險工會"},{"start":69.878,"end":96.996,"text":"以這個判決那麼他也接受法院來查詢保單過去法院查詢的保單大概一年比方說2022年才三千五百件到2024年光那一年啊就查詢了五十七萬三千件可以說這是不堪負荷啦那我必須先講一下當然欠債還錢這是天經地義"},{"start":100.299,"end":128.419,"text":"不過大家如果回想一下第一點我們國家的勞保一直到了民國77年喔民國77年之後才同意給中小企業微型企業的負責人來加保也就是說在民國77年之前啊如果你個人經營生意事業的"},{"start":130.324,"end":138.36,"text":"那不管多大多微小那你不能加保所以當時啊政府"},{"start":139.266,"end":160.417,"text":"跟保險公司都鼓勵大家說來買個保險保障你不管你以後成功失敗好歹你有一個基本的生存保險所以當時的承諾保險公司當時信誓旦旦說這些保險資料絕對"},{"start":162.847,"end":179.953,"text":"不會被徵詢到這個個資絕對不會外洩這是事實你可以回去查一查那結果在這樣子的誤導之下保險公司業績大好今天如果"},{"start":181.909,"end":207.145,"text":"去要保的人被保險人如果是惡性倒閉我跟你倆借了一千萬我這一千萬全部買保險借著你保險的這個機密不得外洩我把錢藏起來惡性倒閉那這就不對可是不是啊你看這麼龐大的數字裡面現在民怨這麼高裡面就是很多民眾"},{"start":210.888,"end":234.799,"text":"當時你銀行、金控公司包括租賃公司、融資公司你願意借給我你頂多你就是透過金融的徵詢、查詢那那些查詢不到這些保險啊你針對我的抵押品、我的信用我企業經營的良善與否我個人的character"},{"start":236.383,"end":258.216,"text":"品格那來做出這個授信的同意與否不是嗎跟這個保險無關嘛怎麼突然間過去你這樣徵詢我你同意借我啦現在我失敗了你從過去你沒徵詢到的你也沒評估在內的你叫他說這個也要拿出來賠"},{"start":259.659,"end":284.916,"text":"所以我覺得我覺得這要做適度的修正也就是說要橫憑債權債務他們之間資歷的差距所以我是打算這樣我提出的保險法123之1條的修正有三大我這裡面列的有三個大原則第一個原則就是說如果這個保險契約"},{"start":288.382,"end":305.006,"text":"這個金額債權金額沒有超過107條第二項的額度不得作為扣押強制執行的標定107條第二項就是這個針對金額我簡單講68萬5嘛那就是針對針對死亡失能也就是傷臟補助這個金額"},{"start":318.148,"end":345.463,"text":"那不是現在我們在討論的說台北七萬多金門五萬多鄉下地區三萬多一個基本生活不是那你要他怎樣七萬多花完叫他去跳樓嗎如果他已經退休七十歲了可以這樣嗎七萬多塊三個月半年了不起一年基本生活就花完了不是嗎"},{"start":346.829,"end":361.572,"text":"所以他製造另外一個社會問題 因為銀行 軍公公司 尤其是租賃公司這些是強勢 租賃公司還是虛高利貸血汗 他們也參與繳藉著最高法院的這個判決 他們也來參與繳"},{"start":369.048,"end":388.944,"text":"所以我認為要加入橫貧法則要提高要提高豁免額度六十八萬五我覺得這不為過這不為過 買服務棺材都要三十萬了不是嗎所以 那第二個原則我認為"},{"start":391.416,"end":408.266,"text":"這個藥保的債務人小兒中老保險小兒中老保險最高最高金額 理賠金額90萬而已啊90萬而已嘛不管你買幾張就是90萬那怕他什麼"},{"start":410.029,"end":433.62,"text":"不是嗎再來我加入一條就是說如果執行法院斟酌債務人債權人生活狀況跟其他形式有慎為有失公平的得扣押也就是說債權人其實有區分的債權人又強勢債權人就是我剛剛講的租賃公司銀行金扣"},{"start":435.393,"end":452.443,"text":"這些是強勢債權人那也有弱勢債權人弱勢債權人比方說被害人被車子撞到被你撞人撞傷撞人殘廢撞死比方說圍觀大樓倒塌那些都是弱勢的債權人那被受到傷害的弱勢債權人當然"},{"start":460.458,"end":484.236,"text":"他們就可以來執行就可以根據我所謂的123條之一這個衡平條款就是說如果以法院來斟酌認為有必須的也就是弱勢在權人我們要保障他我們要保障他那這樣就公平啦那那個主委你知道嗎我剛剛在講強勢弱勢齁到現在為止喔到現在為止"},{"start":489.822,"end":517.425,"text":"現在來執行這些保單的銀行 租賃公司 資產管理公司佔了整個按量的百分之九十欸九成啊被這些強勢的其實是他們來搞的真的弱勢的 我剛剛跟你講車禍啦建商蓋得不好倒掉這種弱勢的債券只佔百分之十不到"},{"start":518.922,"end":537.247,"text":"那這個條款當初最高法院人家他的裁定他並不是要造成社會有這樣的紛擾我們國家所有的法律所有的法院都應該為人民服務不是嗎"},{"start":538.737,"end":563.029,"text":"怎麼可以任由那些 清空公司他賺錢我們社會沒有人忌妒他但是 所有清空公司都賺不是幾十億耶現在每年都賺上百億之多他還來鉅於這一點來鉅於早年 現在很多退休的他當初買一個保險 為了他中老"},{"start":564.947,"end":576.413,"text":"現在我們在討論這個說 啊 五萬 三萬最高台北市七萬 豁免他七萬 請問七萬元那一個退休老人他可以 中養幾個月那七萬都用完了 你叫他跳樓嗎所以我認為 這張保單"},{"start":589.13,"end":612.436,"text":"可能是這個終其一生為國家社會盡他的力量效命的微型企業主小型企業主個體戶他一輩子他奮鬥的目標就剩了一點只為了生存而已所以我認為啊是不是123之1"},{"start":613.919,"end":621.784,"text":"我希望能夠朝我講的就是我們納入橫頻條款那我們對小兒中老保險不多不管你幾張總金額才90萬元我們有必要這樣子苛刻為國家社會效命我們的老人家們有必要對他們這樣子"},{"start":638.587,"end":647.27,"text":"千刀萬里追嗎好不好好好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝世堅委員接著請林思明委員質詢謝謝召委請彭主委好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1043,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（12時12分）謝謝主席。請彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：彭主委，108年最高法院裁定……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，大法庭。"],["王委員世堅：得以對債務人執行並要求壽險契約終止，償付解約金。這個裁定之後，光2023年一年，從2023年1月到隔年9月，全國法院扣押保單的件數超過92萬8,000件，92萬8,000件耶！造成法院極大負荷，也讓人心惶惶。在這個判決後，壽險公會也接受法院來查詢保單，過去法院查詢的保單一年大概……比方2022年才3,500件，到了2024年，光那一年就查詢了57萬3,000件，真的不堪負荷。我必須先講，欠債還錢天經地義，不過大家可以回想一下，第一點，我們國家的勞保一直到民國77年之後，才同意給中小企業、微型企業的負責人加保。也就是說，在民國77年之前，個人經營生意事業者，不管多大、多微小都不能加保。所以當時政府跟保險公司都鼓勵大家買個保險保障，不管你以後成功、失敗，好歹你有一個基本的生存保險，保險公司當時信誓旦旦的承諾保險資料絕對不會被徵詢、個資絕對不會外洩，這是事實，你可以回去查一查，結果在這樣子的誤導之下，保險公司業績大好。今天如果要保人、被保險人是惡性倒閉，我跟銀行借1,000萬，這1,000萬全部買保險，藉著你保險的機密不得外洩，我把錢藏起來惡性倒閉這就不對，可是不是啊！你看這麼龐大的數字，現在民怨這麼高，就是很多民眾，當時銀行、金控公司，包括租賃公司、融資公司願意借給我，頂多是透過金融的徵詢、查詢，這些查詢查不到保險，你是針對我的抵押品、我的信用、我企業經營的良善與否、我個人的品格來做出授信的同意與否，不是嗎？跟保險無關。怎麼突然間，過去你這樣徵詢我，你同意借我，結果現在我失敗了，你卻連過去沒徵詢到也沒評估在內的也叫我要拿出來賠，我覺得這要做適度地修正，也就是要衡平債權、債務之間資力的差距。所以我是打算這樣，我提出的保險法第一百二十三條之一的修正，有三個大原則，第一個原則，如果保險契約債權金額沒有超過第一百零七條第二項的額度，不得作為扣押強制執行的標的。第一百零七條第二項，我簡單講金額是68萬5,000元，是針對死亡、失能，也就是喪葬補助金額，這個不是現在在討論臺北七萬多、金門五萬多、鄉下地區三萬多可維持一個基本生活，不是！你要他怎樣？七萬多花完叫他去跳樓嗎？如果他已經退休、70歲了，可以這樣嗎？七萬多塊，可能3個月、半年，了不起一年基本生活就花完了，不是嗎？所以這製造另外一個社會問題，因為銀行、金控公司，尤其租賃公司這些是強勢，租賃公司還是高利貸吸血汗，藉著最高法院的判決他們也來參一腳，所以我認為要加入衡平法則、要提高豁免額度，我覺得68萬5,000元這不為過，買一副棺材都要30萬，不是嗎？","第二個原則，我認為要保的債務人小額終老保險，小額終老保險最高、最高理賠金額90萬而已，不管你買幾張就是90萬！那怕他什麼？不是嗎？再來，我加入一條，如果執行法院斟酌債務人、債權人生活狀況跟其他形式認為有失公平者，得扣押。也就是債權人其實有區分，債權人有強勢債權人，就是我剛剛講的租賃公司、銀行、金控，這些是強勢債權人；也有弱勢債權人，比方說被害人被車子撞到，被撞成重傷、撞成殘廢、撞死，比方說維冠大樓倒塌，那些都是弱勢債權人，受到傷害的弱勢債權人當然就可以根據我所謂的第一百二十三條之一衡平條款，就是如果法院斟酌認為有必須，也就是我們要保障弱勢債權人，這樣就公平。主委你知道嗎？我剛剛在講強勢、弱勢，其實到現在為止來執行保單的，銀行、租賃公司、資產管理公司就占了整個案量的九成，所以是這些強勢債權人來搞的，真的弱勢的，我剛剛跟你講的車禍、建商蓋不好倒掉的這種弱勢債權人只占不到百分之十。這個條款當初最高法院的裁定並不是要造成社會的紛擾，我們國家所有的法律、所有的法院都應該為人民服務！不是嗎？金控公司賺錢，我們社會沒有人嫉妒他，但是所有金控公司不是賺幾十億，是每年都賺上百億之多，他們還來覬覦這一點，來凱覦早年這些退休的人當初為了終老買的保險，現在在討論5萬、3萬，最高臺北市豁免他7萬，請問7萬元可以讓一個退休老人終養幾個月？7萬用完你叫他跳樓嗎？我認為這張保單可能是這個終其一生為他的國家、社會盡他的力量效命的微型企業、小型企業主、個體戶，他一輩子奮鬥的目標就剩那一點，只為了生存而已，所以第一百二十三條之一我希望能夠朝我講的納入衡平條款，對小額終老保險，不多！不管你幾張，總金額才90萬元，我們有必要這樣子苛刻為國家、社會效命的老人家們，有必要對他們這樣子千刀萬里追嗎？好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：好。"],["王委員世堅：好，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝世堅委員。","接著請林思銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","黃珊珊","羅智強","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","羅明才","李坤城","黃國昌","陳玉珍","王世堅","林思銘","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","徐富癸","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「保險法」15案：一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員\n王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人\n分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案；二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第\n一百二十三條之一條文草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等\n19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百\n七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案","agenda_id":"1144301_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}