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請問你要怎麼溝通為什麼每一次在台南都發生這樣的事件然後每一次都是讓人民很多的失望部長這個部分其實他很單純但是單純到讓地方政府跟中央在踢皮球 為什麼"},{"start":210.216,"end":232.508,"text":"因為地方政府他現在切開因為養殖 室內養殖是拿地方政府的農取然後呢當有農取之後可以蓋了 蓋了室內養殖之後他可以跟我們能源署來申請屋頂型光電板他是不用環評的"},{"start":234.716,"end":260.426,"text":"所以他就是用這樣的以法玩法的方式然後把這樣的做法造成地方的反彈那現在問題到你們這裡了光電板 屋頂型光電板他一定要跟我們能源署來申請工作許可證好 那我們怎麼辦我們怎麼處理"},{"start":263.42,"end":286.462,"text":"報告委員我想您的這個部分的槌尋我想我們可以了解一個關鍵也就是說我們在事前沒有跟這個地方的居民有做一個比較好的溝通所以在進行這件事情的時候當然造成居民的不解造成反對"},{"start":287.623,"end":310.054,"text":"那這個部分我想這個案子來講我們中央的態度還是一樣就是說任何的公共的措施任何的辦法在推動的時候我們還是要尋求到當地居民的支持我想這個政府的政策如果沒有國人的支持政府施政大概意義就不大"},{"start":310.754,"end":321.165,"text":"所以我想這一部分我們會再多多溝通等到那個居民同意那我們才會可能再來考慮放行這個是我們的做法"},{"start":322.082,"end":348.705,"text":"那剛才您在說的這個法的部分我想這個也是這個各位大院裡面的這些委員大家來協助對我們這個比較這個方法上面發現有一些比較這個有疏漏的地方的話我想我們這個都可以討論來做修正原則上我們的這個所有的這個綠能政策我們都希望能夠獲得國人的支持"},{"start":349.385,"end":370.752,"text":"那當地的居民如果他們有反對我們也不會強硬的來通過這樣的一個做法部長真的要拜託我們一定要跟所有的光電業者說我們如果可以開大門走大路事前讓所有的居民知道到底你要做什麼事前溝通絕對會比反彈之後的溝通"},{"start":374.901,"end":394.483,"text":"更好來做處理可是你現在大家都反彈了已經對你廠商沒有信任感所以真的這個你們要把關注而且將心比心如果你周邊你住的環境全部都被光電板全部都圍起來了"},{"start":396.274,"end":409.571,"text":"你的心你會安嗎是 我想我們大家的想法都會一致啦齁這個部分我們會來這個檢討來改善再拜託部長然後我認為其實有很多我們農業部有劃設出來"},{"start":412.434,"end":436.123,"text":"離我們居民比較遠的地方像有些是根本餘溫養殖已經沒有辦法去做處理的還有就是貧瘠地沒辦法建造沒辦法允許沒辦法建造這個部分為什麼我們都不去做這些的一個規劃這些都離人民很遠反而他們都要往人民"},{"start":437.684,"end":462.646,"text":"去擠 去壓 這不是很奇怪嗎是是 報告委員我們現在已經朝這個方向在努力了我們將來會公告哪一些地方是適合光電業者去開發的我們會先公告我們甚至鼓勵他也沒有問題啊 是是不是因為我知道在平擠地他可能距離會比較遠他要做的匱限或所有的設施會比較花重本"},{"start":463.567,"end":465.868,"text":"所以我覺得我們不能說因為這樣子然後讓光電業者為了要獲利然後往我們民眾然後人民的一個居住範圍去壓這是不對的我們這個一定會以國人的福祉為第一優先不會以業者的福祉為第一優先"},{"start":481.477,"end":501.597,"text":"所以部長拜託這個案子請你們要把關好請我們能源署一定要把關好你們的把關才會讓光電業者會有壓力啊這個部分再拜託在還沒有人民民眾同意之前你絕對不能核發工作許可證這個是很重要的拜託謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":42,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時8分）謝謝主席，我們請部長還有能源署署長。"],["主席：部長、署長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長好。4月18號其實我們辦公室就已經轉了的麻豆「大地莊園」的陳情書給能源署，他們的立場很簡單，誰都知道光電很重要，但要取之有道，我們一直要求光電業者必須要溝通協調。如果你住了二十年的環境，這個環境是過去臺南縣政府蘇煥智縣長一直強調要做臺灣第一個綠建築的莊園，這邊住了非常多人，是一個集中型住宅，結果在二十年後，突然之間他可能一覺醒來周邊全部都變成光電板！雖然是屋頂型光電板，它還是光電板，而且必須是在室內養殖，有一個實質建物之後，在上面蓋光電板，等於周邊全部都是水泥建物，然後上面加光電板。將心比心，他們完全被蒙在鼓裡都不知道，當他們看到一棟一棟的室內養殖如雨後春筍慢慢出現的時候，才發現茲事體大，原來不是只要做室內養殖，要做的是屋頂型光電板，難怪整個炸鍋！他們求助無門，最後拿了這一個陳情書來給我，他們陸續還在簽署。","我一直都跟經濟部還有能源署說，我們為什麼不開大門走大路？今天我們一直強調你要跟地方溝通，每一次廠商都是先斬後奏，廠商已經看到、拿到了相關執照之後，讓地方民眾產生反彈，你要去溝通，請問你要怎麼溝通？為什麼每一次在臺南都發生這樣的事件，每一次都讓人民很失望？部長，這個部分其實很單純，但單純到讓地方政府跟中央在踢皮球，為什麼？地方政府現在切開，因為室內養殖是拿地方政府的農許，當有農許之後可以蓋室內養殖後，他可以跟能源署申請屋頂型光電板，它是不用環評的。所以他就是用這樣以法玩法的方式，這樣的作法造成地方反彈。現在問題到了你們這裡，設屋頂型光電板一定要跟能源署申請工作許可證，那我們怎麼辦？我們怎麼處理？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，您這個部分的垂詢，我們可以了解一個關鍵，也就是我們在事前沒有跟地方居民做一個比較好的溝通，所以進行這件事情的時候當然造成居民不解而反對。就這個案子來講，我們中央的態度還是一樣，就是任何公共措施、任何辦法在推動的時候，我們還是要尋求當地居民的支持，我想政府的建設如果沒有國人的支持，政府的施政大概意義就不大。所以這一部分我們會再多多溝通，等到居民同意，我們再考慮放行，這是我們的作法。","那剛才您在說的法的部分，我想這也是要請大院裡面的各位委員大家來協助，對於我們在方法上面發現一些比較有疏漏的地方的話，我們都可以討論做修正。原則上我們所有的綠能政策都希望能夠獲得國人的支持，當地居民如果有反對，我們也不會強硬通過這樣的一個作法。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，真的要拜託，我們一定要跟所有的光電業者說，如果可以開大門走大路，事前讓所有的居民知道到底你要做什麼，事前溝通絕對會比反彈之後的溝通更好處理。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是現在大家都反彈了，已經對廠商沒有信任感，所以真的這個你們要把關。"],["郭部長智輝：我們會要求。"],["陳委員亭妃：而且將心比心。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果你周邊、你住的環境全部都被光電板圍起來了，你會心安嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我想我們大家的想法都會一致，這個部分我們會檢討改善。"],["陳委員亭妃：再拜託部長。然後我認為其實有很多農業部有劃設出來，離居民比較遠的地方，像有些是根本魚塭、養殖已經沒有辦法處理的，還有就是無法耕作、無法養殖的貧瘠地，這個部分為什麼我們都不去做相關的規劃？這些都離居民很遠，反而他們都要往居民多的地方去擠、去壓，這不是很奇怪嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，我們現在已經朝這個方向在努力了，我們將來會公告哪些地方是適合光電業者去開發的；我們會先公告。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們甚至鼓勵他也沒有問題啊！是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我知道貧瘠地可能距離會比較遠，他要做的饋線等所有設施會比較花重本，可是我們不能因為這樣，就讓光電業者為了獲利而往人民的居住範圍去壓，這是不對的！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們一定會以國人的福祉為第一優先，不會以業者的福祉為第一優先。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長拜託，這個案子請你們一定要把關。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員指導。"],["陳委員亭妃：請能源署一定要把關。你們有把關，才會讓光電業者有壓力，這個部分再拜託！"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員亭妃：在民眾還沒有同意之前，你絕對不能核發工作許可證，這個是很重要的，拜託！謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝。現在請張嘉郡委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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