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謝謝主席 我們先請經濟部郭部長郭部長委員好部長好 部長那個非核家園對我而言不只是一個理念也是一個信仰 更是法律規定"},{"start":35.648,"end":62.751,"text":"這不是任何一個黨的一個目標 或是一個黨的一個理念而是一個國家法律規定 我有什麼要講 環境基本法23條政府應制定計畫逐步達成非核家園 知道了嗎知道了嗎 是所以這是一個法律規定那現在大家都討論說核酸要研議"},{"start":64.028,"end":76.683,"text":"您個人我先問一個背景問題好了未來十年台灣缺電的可能性有多大未來十年我大概我們討論過了到2032年"},{"start":79.887,"end":96.643,"text":"2032就是未來7年目前的設施啦跟可以上來的2032年絕對沒有問題絕對不會有缺電的任何可能性這可能性趨近於零對不對我們不能說100%這可能性趨近於零嘛是這樣子嗎"},{"start":97.857,"end":113.987,"text":"這個我們也就是說到2032年是絕對沒有問題那你要講到2035年後面那個三年我說2032年就為七年之內沒有缺電的問題沒有缺電的問題那你2032之後呢它那個包括再生能源"},{"start":114.787,"end":139.986,"text":"包括這個LNG 燃氣各種的這個再生能源都會慢慢的 比例會越來越高 對不對是 我們需要投資的一定會降低嘛 那也是我們目標所以這種情況之下2032年之內 你說2032這7年之內絕對沒有缺電的問題 對不對2032更沒有缺電的問題因為再生能源全部補上來了"},{"start":144.983,"end":169.942,"text":"我們現在是這樣報告委員我們現在是再生能源我們是這樣到2030年我們所有的多元的電能裡面再生能源會從明年的20%到2030年的時候我們會升到30%也就是說再生能源增加主要是因為台灣的業者他需要綠色的能源"},{"start":171.069,"end":178.174,"text":"他需要綠色的能源基於這個綠色能源 所以我們的再生能源會來到30%2030就30%我們明年要讓這個再生能源來到20%這就是屬於綠色能源所以您這麼贊成 我請教您 您這麼贊成核三營業呢您這麼贊成"},{"start":195.031,"end":201.7,"text":"我現在是經濟部長我是依法行事啦如果法令規定這個原意現在法令還沒有修嘛有政黨"},{"start":210.29,"end":237.304,"text":"有個人有立法委員有縣市所長希望核三原議我想請教您個人的意見您贊成核三原議嗎核三原議有三個原則啦三個原則啦就是安全無力成本時間嘛權源有共識核廢料可以處理如果這三個原則可以大家都可以同意的話我就去執行所以你有前提的支持"},{"start":237.944,"end":257.334,"text":"有條件的支持不是支持我是執行執行我有經濟部長嘛我個人看法你這三個條件這三個條件基本上都沒有辦法有共識你說核廢料這些主張要核三要研議的或者要重啟核能的"},{"start":258.991,"end":271.701,"text":"哪一個縣市所長哪一個立法委員哪一個民意代表他敢說他核廢掉放在我的選區放在我的縣市你有聽過有這樣的縣市所長有這樣的國會議員嗎他們有曾經表態過嗎沒有嘛對不對他說要支持核三要延誼核三要延誼你核廢掉要放在以零為貨嘛你知道我意思嗎"},{"start":288.581,"end":314.384,"text":"你敢說要核酸研疫,好,研疫你給我處理,放在我這裡管治,放在我的山谷,有人這樣說嗎?沒有人敢這樣說嘛。這樣就是政客,不管是管治長,或是任何政治人物啊,你的言行要一致啊。我看到這個,真讓人很煩惱,就是說政治人物言而無信。"},{"start":315.743,"end":341.063,"text":"現在我不說 過去說的 哇 這個聲勢力竭 現在就全面反對過去是全力贊同的 現在是全面反對你看他很多這種人所以喔 我是覺得河山這個問題啊 你要有立場我覺得你剛剛說的是你的立場 三個條件社會共識 對不對 安全嘛 另外核廢料可以處理嘛"},{"start":342.079,"end":365.618,"text":"我這個是非常高的門檻這個不可能完整這個滿足是三項條件所以我可不可以再解讀你不支持河山演繹我還是依照這個三個原則在處理啦因為我是這個公務同仁我們的公務同仁也必須要依法依規然後來執行這些事情你是行政部門主管你當然要有的"},{"start":367.189,"end":388.219,"text":"經濟部主管你要有一定的立場你要有一定的態度沒有我就是執行行政院的命令行政院的命令是什麼對你修法還沒有修法但是你行政院也要有態度一樣這個不管有修法沒修法我就執行行政院的命令我個人只要我在立法院我覺得是堅決反對堅決反對"},{"start":391.758,"end":413.767,"text":"而且我覺得這是國家法律規定,不是個人信仰,不是政黨的目標另外漢祥是國家隊,漢祥也是經濟部所屬漢祥跟中科院有一些合約糾紛,我覺得部裡面要來處理一下"},{"start":415.512,"end":441.948,"text":"他那個關鍵的系統件沒有辦法交貨的原因當然不能規則於漢祥不能規則於漢祥所以因為全球產業鏈供應鏈中斷不可抗力因素而不是公司的個人管理的問題所以這樣中科業要給他發10.9億十幾億 十幾億對公司造成很大的影響經濟部主管的漢祥也是漢祥國家隊的隊長"},{"start":445.162,"end":472.65,"text":"這樣 我覺得喔 應該要跨部會協調不然你要了解 要跟國防部合作因為中科院 中科院應該是國防部吧你要了解這件事情 那你來合作幫我安詳這個問題好 我們來進行另外 過去有個施政農董事長啊其實在我的三國興大港 去一個海洋科學園區這部分啊 我最了解沒人比我更了解 我每天在那"},{"start":474.879,"end":496.03,"text":"所以海洋科學園區 這是他個人的想法那我是覺得新達海基要轉型 沒行李嘛 沒調端嘛 所以要專行那地還放在那 蝦皮都在那 蚯蚓都在那那十幾公斤 二十公斤 地還有地"},{"start":501.33,"end":527.01,"text":"我曾經請這個經濟部產業園區管理區召開這個會議我說三米洋很重要特別是針對這個海洋產業海洋科技海洋產業的科學園區很重要所以剛好這個機會新的海地可以轉型那沒有腹地又可以帶動地方的發展地方又有需求"},{"start":528.632,"end":550.294,"text":"又可以帶動協定湖內的發展所以我剛剛這個要大力促成因為我的爭取之下包括北高雄產業園區包括白浦產業園區包括未來的鹿竹產業園區如果不是在那邊質詢這個三個園區不會從天上掉下來不會現在運行一定任何產業園區一定要大力爭取"},{"start":550.914,"end":566.805,"text":"所以我未來希望說海洋科學 海洋產業園區啊能夠在這邊落腳順便以協助新南海地的轉型我們朝這個方向來研議你們要有失聲表那進度要控管一下好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":484,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（10時37分）謝謝主席，先請經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長好。部長，非核家園對我而言不只是一個理念，也是一個信仰，更是法律規定，這不是任何一個黨的目標或者一個黨的理念，而是一個國家法律規定。我為什麼這樣說？環境基本法第二十三條規定，政府應訂定計畫，逐步達成非核家園目標。這一條你知道啦？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以這是一個法律規定。現在大家都在討論核三要延役，我先問一個背景問題好了，未來10年臺灣缺電的可能性有多大？"],["郭部長智輝：未來十年，我們大概討論過，到2032年，目前的……"],["邱委員志偉：2032年就是未來七年。"],["郭部長智輝：目前的設施可以上來的，2032年絕對沒有問題。"],["邱委員志偉：絕對不會有缺電的任何可能性，可能性趨近於零，對不對？我們不能說百分之百，但可能性趨近於零，是這樣子嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：也就是到2032年是絕對沒有問題。"],["邱委員志偉：絕對沒有問題，就是不可能缺電！"],["郭部長智輝：你要講到2035年，後面那個三年……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道。我是說到2032年、未來七年之內沒有缺電的問題，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有缺電的問題。"],["邱委員志偉：2032年之後包括再生能源、LNG燃氣及各種再生能源，比例都會慢慢的越來越高，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：燃煤一定會降低，那也是我們的目標，所以在這種情況之下，你說到2032年、這七年之內，絕對沒有缺電的問題，對不對？2032年更沒有缺電的問題，因為再生能源等全部都補上來了，你們為什麼把時間訂在2032年呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在所有多元的電能裡面，再生能源會從明年的20%到2030年會升到30%，也就是再生能源增加主要是因為臺灣的業者需要綠色的能源，基於這個綠色能源的因素，所以再生能源會來到30%，2030年就30%。我們明年要讓再生能源來到20%，這就是屬於綠色能源。"],["邱委員志偉：我請教您贊不贊成核三延役呢？您贊不贊成？"],["郭部長智輝：我現在是經濟部長，我是依法行事，如果法律規定……"],["邱委員志偉：你要有想法！"],["郭部長智輝：如果法令規定延役，我就執行延役。"],["邱委員志偉：不是，現在法律還沒有修，有政黨、個人、立法委員、縣市首長希望核三延役。"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員志偉：我想請教您個人的意見，您贊成核三延役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：核三延役有三個原則，就是安全無慮……"],["邱委員志偉：成本、時間。"],["郭部長智輝：全員有共識、核廢料可以處理，如果這三個原則大家都可以同意，我就去執行。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你是有前提的支持、有條件的支持？"],["郭部長智輝：不是支持，我是執行。我是經濟部長，所以我要執行法律規定的事情。"],["邱委員志偉：這三個條件基本上都沒有辦法有共識。這些主張核三要延役的或者要重啟核核能的，哪一個縣市首長、哪一個立法委員、哪一個民意代表敢說，核廢料放在他的選區、縣市？你有聽過有這樣的縣市首長、這樣的國會議員嗎？他們曾經表態過嗎？沒有，對不對？他說要支持核三延役，核廢料要放在哪裡？以鄰為壑！你知道我的意思嗎？你敢說要核三延役，核廢料你來處理，放在你的縣市、放在你的選區，有人這樣說嗎？沒有人敢這樣說！這樣就是政客，不管是縣市長或任何政治人物，言行要一致，我看到這個覺得很煩惱，政治人物言而無信、隨便亂講，過去說得聲嘶力竭，現在卻全面反對；過去是全力贊同的，現在是全面反對，立法院很多這種人。我覺得核三這個問題你要有立場，你剛剛說的是你的立場，有三個條件包括社會共識、安全，另外是核廢料可以處理，對不對？這個是非常高的門檻，不可能完成、滿足這三項條件，所以我可不可以再解讀，你不支持核三延役？"],["郭部長智輝：我還是依照這三個原則在處理，因為我們的公務同仁也必須要依法、依規來執行這些事情。"],["邱委員志偉：你是行政部門主管、經濟部主管，你要有一定的立場、一定的態度！"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我就是執行行政院的命令。"],["邱委員志偉：行政院的命令是什麼？雖然還沒有修法，但是行政院要有態度。"],["郭部長智輝：一樣，不管有修法、沒修法，我就執行行政院的命令。"],["邱委員志偉：我個人只要在立法院就是堅決反對，而且這是國家法律規定，不是個人信仰，也不是政黨的目標。","另外，漢翔是國家隊，對不對？漢翔也是經濟部所屬，漢翔跟中科院有一些合約糾紛，我覺得部裡要來處理一下。關鍵的系統件沒有辦法交貨的原因，當然不能歸責於漢翔，是因為全球供應鏈中斷的不可抗力因素，而不是公司管理的問題，這樣中科院竟要罰他將近11億，對公司當然造成很大的影響。經濟部是主管，也是漢翔國家隊的隊長，我覺得應該跨部會協調，部長要了解並跟國防部協調。中科院應該是國防部業管的，你要了解這件事情，麻煩你來協調，幫忙漢翔解決這個問題。"],["郭部長智輝：好，我們來進行。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，過去有個施振榮董事長提議在我的選區興達港蓋海洋科學園區，這個部分我最了解，沒人比我更了解，我每天都在那裡，當地所有的建設我都有參與。海洋科學園區是他個人的想法，而我覺得興達海基要轉型，因為沒生意、沒訂單，所以要轉型。地在那邊，設備都在那邊，廠房也都在那邊，有20公頃，旁邊還有地，加起來差不多40公頃。我也曾經請經濟部產業園區管理局召開會議，我說產業園區很重要，特別是針對海洋產業、海洋科技的科學園區很重要。剛好有這個機會，興達海基可以轉型，又有腹地可以帶動地方發展，地方有需求，又可以帶動茄萣、湖內的發展，所以這個要大力促成。因為在我的爭取之下，包括北高雄產業園區、白埔產業園區以及未來的路竹產業園區，如果不是我在這邊質詢，這三個園區不會從天上掉下來，不會現在運行中，任何產業園區一定要大力爭取，所以我希望海洋產業園區未來能夠在這邊落腳，順便協助興達海基轉型。部長的看法呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們朝這個方向來研議。"],["邱委員志偉：你們要有時程表。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你真的要控管一下進度。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請賴瑞隆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","邱志偉","賴瑞隆","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","羅廷瑋","林岱樺"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員魯明哲等19人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案；二、本\n院委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1144501_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}