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做到高雄 還有台灣大學 還有東京大學 還有哲學立法院我最主要是勇於認識 為人誠懇所以我不要跟他說是財是所 意思是我給你按讚這樣就對了 但是我的問題就是你下去沒有特色"},{"start":59.501,"end":71.106,"text":"我昨天練書練到兩點因為針對今天委員的垂行重點都是我們國家的重要方向我必須要來拜讀我給你推薦一本很好讀的 學問有夠讚叫做核廢料蘭嶼儲存場設置真相調查報告書一本寫的"},{"start":82.931,"end":92.987,"text":"這差不多六十三頁調查報告書六十三頁然後附件加一加一共是七百四十六頁我一禮拜齁我一禮拜都把它拆掉了我從第一頁到最後一頁都把它拆掉了連附件我都看連我辦公室都看"},{"start":98.135,"end":111.308,"text":"那我今天本席要來跟你就教的就是說啊倒也不是醫院的硬體的一個建設啦是在講說蘭嶼的醫療這個嚴重的不足這應該柏中你也應該都知道啦我來跟你講一個故事啦就是說"},{"start":115.339,"end":119.222,"text":"民國60年 1971年的時候核一廠動工那時候動工之後 叫你說你就有一些核廢料會造出來所以那個時候就評估五種核廢料儲存方式第一款叫做"},{"start":131.451,"end":154.208,"text":"廢礦坑 後來就去找 找到金瓜石但是呢 礦坑太潮濕 居民會使用礦坑的水源所以打岔就沒用第二種就是舊日均地下屯殯地 台中結果呢 那個深度 地面大概二十公尺而已那坑道狹窄 汽車也沒有在裡面運作 所以又打岔"},{"start":155.129,"end":168.672,"text":"第三個就新竹 想要放大清水下來啊 但是交通不方便 又打岔第四個呢 東沙島 是要投海 海拋還是啦 離菲律賓120公里而已 走那邊就趕走啦走國際 國際 欸我你還笑 我要跟你講這個啊 但是喔 來了 重點來了 設在離島 蘭嶼跟澎湖等14個方案"},{"start":181.487,"end":186.151,"text":"我可以說的是,沒有啦,蘭嶼有夠衰啦因為它離本島最近,還有港口還有紅酒,最主要成本最低所以它就中獎了,蘭嶼就中獎了所以我要跟部長說明的就是說在蘭嶼如果蓋一間便宜,那不是叫做選項啦"},{"start":202.947,"end":207.053,"text":"那叫做政府的責任1971年到現在 你看這麼久時間過了2018年 2016年 我看蔡總統 這個以前很聽你的"},{"start":219.864,"end":226.348,"text":"跟蘭嶼人道歉2018年核廢料蘭嶼儲存場的設置真相調查報告書就是我建議的一本書出爐同年也提供給住在蘭嶼的居民一些健檢當然政府階段也有補充一些我給你看下一頁這歷史研究給你看一下就是在2019年的時候"},{"start":245.698,"end":250.945,"text":"原民會那時候就照一本書所以我是怎麼叫部長你要去看現在跟你說的都不用說什麼對一個總統對一個總統都官方的文件那時候就說要不然來建議提升叫做分院"},{"start":259.522,"end":262.585,"text":"那部立台東區分院就對了 就是說這裡要設一個病院再來就開始台東的衛生局就開始去協調要怎麼用地然後呢 再來2022年就開始說 原民會跟台東縣政府來協調原民保留地要怎麼整修 連監察院後來也去了"},{"start":279.66,"end":294.653,"text":"我這裡有一張 監察院去做什麼 你知道嗎監察院調查主管機關就蘭嶼達沃族人權益維護的重大建設政策規劃跟執行是否投資的時候去履刊啦 履刊要做什麼 你知道嗎醫院設置的問題啊從頭到尾都在講說蘭嶼就是要設醫院啦這都要收錢 你知道嗎 我想要叫石崇亮署長你起來 董事長你就是署長嘛"},{"start":308.065,"end":315.428,"text":"蘭嶼就是要設分院嘛這有什麼好講的有什麼好爭辯的我現在要講的就是說以前國民黨夭壽國民黨以前真的很夭壽要放十萬趟"},{"start":330.649,"end":334.33,"text":"我2011年我背小英 蔡英文總統去蘭嶼啦我去看到的現場慘不忍睹啦以前有人騙說要去罐頭工廠說去下去後 齁 青年就就業結果有去罐頭工廠嗎 有大咖的罐頭 55高輪的 都放合會了不對 你可能不記得齁"},{"start":358.462,"end":371.908,"text":"我就說你要去因為你叫做衛福部部長我覺得你要去要去看一下說當年的政府怎麼去讀讀不然莫名其妙2018年蔡英文不會去道歉嘛不是啦 做總統後面道歉的就是說當初要去這個蘭嶼要放這個核廢料儲存場沒有蘭嶼的人知道 人家騙那產生的是什麼"},{"start":387.025,"end":401.155,"text":"你如果說要顧老百姓的健康就很簡單啊藍瑜那個核肺療藏你給他刷照啊可不可能 不可能啊十萬趟要刷一堆第二天就是 啊沒有人刷照啊可不可能 啊也不可能啊兩種都不可能那怎麼辦那這政府的責任就來囉你來人顧健康嘛"},{"start":411.158,"end":417.083,"text":"我就不管說什麼蔡英文有沒有承諾什麼賴清德總統有沒有承諾 兩件事政府就是該做不你合理吧 你特赤人嘛那個石中梁署長我這樣講合理吧合理喔 你也頂頭啊 欸 趙復師合理喔 你們都說合理喔你們就互相在推啦那些小外星人喔 叫做你趙復師的啦"},{"start":435.589,"end":442.832,"text":"我們如果去賓夷之後,他有位的啦,他們就撒來撒去啦所以我具體要求啦,保證,盡量訂案啦盡量齁,你們整個新建計劃盡量出來,匡列預算啦稍微對不起,王委員,我不是我結東,我要講這個歷史這件事情要講得清楚你譬如說齁,我講我們屏東就好了,我們過去屏東,好東西"},{"start":462.472,"end":475.359,"text":"蔡英文都要 總統都要屏東 蘇貞昌院長也要屏東我覺得各個縣市去照顧 全國都照顧 合理你說賴總統現在在說健康台灣對不對偏鄉醫療你要提升啊我記錄給你聽啦我們屏東隆總 屏東隆總喔 開九十四億去二岸齁屏東部立醫院 開三十六億"},{"start":489.192,"end":492.775,"text":"去好了嘛 現在在去嘛屏東旅遊醫院去電館八樓 第二席一樓蘇貞昌院長怎麼說 你知不知道一室大會 要人給人 要錢給錢經費無上限我沒跟你說 我沒說 你看Google你去Google 蘇貞昌經費無上限台東勒"},{"start":513.12,"end":516.341,"text":"過去政府的不當的政策 荼毒整個蘭嶼我們不用騎個便宜的人所以我現在不是在說 蓋醫院是不是選項 不是我講的是 在蘭嶼蓋醫院是叫做責任而且無可推卸的一個責任啊你只能在那裡討論在那裡討論來討論去 上來上去快去啦"},{"start":538.432,"end":547.196,"text":"醫護會不是這樣說?你不是要站起來幫我扯一下而已嗎?你不是要站起來幫我倒倒的嗎?據理承諾的嗎?醫護會要去報告,報告現在的進度啦沒有沒有,我又不要提進度這叫責任我請部長據理承諾"},{"start":554.434,"end":583.11,"text":"好,我想我們醫護會因為當時是土地的問題,也沒有三來三去因為從108年其實在部內裡面就一直討論醫院的一個興建的一個計畫去評估然後土地當時是有問題的譬如說原來的土地,那裡說不可以,那是森林所在的地我們就往外面去別的地方,大量管政部在找當然現在有些地方看起來已經克服的差不多"},{"start":583.45,"end":588.874,"text":"都扣有差不多沒問題的嘛我們現在就是今天要提一個醫院的新鮮的計畫來提公鮮計畫在這當中我們也一直在補充補充應該有的量能啦今年創的開備啦"},{"start":600.201,"end":620.659,"text":"新建計畫計畫書幾個月內因為現在那個我們15筆土地裡面上面就是有2筆是被佔用的啦另外這些土地其實是還需要我不跟你 佔用那是什麼去排除 我說你的新建計畫我現在跟你說新建計畫 我跟你說你不給他具體答案 待會蒼蠅給你問得越嚴重 我不給你騙"},{"start":625.887,"end":632.871,"text":"因為我們還是需要跟地方在這邊需要它的量比如說它的衛生索你告訴我 時間要當時我不敢 藍瑜在那裡 我不敢提陳映萌但是我自己做 我對台東的關心可以嘛你屏東旅遊醫院 人家這樣開始去去白樓 怕卡住去白樓 三年六個月"},{"start":653.171,"end":659.814,"text":"去八樓 燈館八樓 地下一樓 開一個515你這裡要去多大 要三樓嗎三樓而已耶屏東旅遊院是137個床位耶你這裡要幾個床位不會超過40個吧好 那個細節是不是我簡單問你嘛 我要突顯出來嘛我要突顯出來嘛 你這裡幾個床位37吧 30幾吧"},{"start":681.598,"end":692.865,"text":"你的三十幾屏東旅遊醫院137個蓋地上八樓地下一樓三年半五年五年你這個比較有貴貴賺錢啦具體承諾不定好不好今年新建計劃提出來好好好可以喔你自己說的喔待會請問你幾位要出來我來講謝謝好謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢接下來"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":396,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時43分）謝謝召委。面對事實就換我來發言了！本席請衛福部邱部長、照護司副司長，還有石崇良署長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長好。部長，這兩天我都在誇獎你，媒體來問我對衛福部部長的看法，我說部長有學術的經驗，當到教授，還有臺灣大學、東京大學的學歷，還當過立法委員，最主要的是勇於任事、為人誠懇，所以我後面提到這是適才適所，給你按讚，這樣就對了！"],["邱部長泰源：繼續努力！"],["莊委員瑞雄：但是我要問你，你多久沒讀書了？"],["邱部長泰源：我昨天念書念到兩點，因為今天委員的垂詢重點都是我們國家的重要方向，必須要來拜讀。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我給你推薦一本很好讀、很棒的書，叫做「核廢料蘭嶼貯存場設置真相調查報告書」，差不多是63頁的調查報告書，然後附件加一加一共是746頁，我一個禮拜就都把它都讀完了，從第1頁到最後一頁，連附件我都看了，連我辦公室也都看了。今天本席要跟你就教的，倒不是醫院的硬體建設，而是蘭嶼的醫療嚴重不足，部長應該都知道啦！"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我來跟你說一個故事，民國60年、1971年的時候核一廠動工，在動工之後照理說就會有一些核廢料出來，所以那個時候就評估了5種核廢料貯存方式，第一種叫做廢礦坑，後來就找到金瓜石那個地方，但是礦坑太潮溼，居民會使用礦坑的水源，所以就打「X」、就沒採用；第二種是舊日軍地下屯兵地──臺中，結果那個深度距地面大概20公尺而已，且坑道狹窄，起重車也沒辦法在裡面運作，所以又打「X」；第三個是新竹，想要放在深山裡面，但是交通不方便，又打「X」；第四個是東沙島，要投海、海拋，但是距菲律賓120公里而已，怕被人家罵，怕有國際糾紛，你還在笑！我跟你說的是真的！第五個，重點來了，設在離島──蘭嶼跟澎湖等共14個方案，我跟你說這些是因為後來蘭嶼有夠倒楣的，由於它離本島最近、有港口、人口少，最主要的是成本最低，所以蘭嶼就中獎了。","我要跟部長說明的是，如果在蘭嶼蓋一間醫院，那不叫做選項，那叫做政府的責任，從1971年到現在，經過這麼久的時間，2016年，以前也很疼你的蔡總統，她有去向蘭嶼人道歉；2018年，核廢料蘭嶼貯存場設置真相調查報告書出爐，就是我建議的這本書，同年也提供住在蘭嶼的居民進行一些健檢，隔年政府多少也補償了一些，我把歷史沿革讓部長看一下；2019年的時候，原民會就依據這本報告書……為什麼我叫部長去看這本書？因為現在跟你說的，都不用說這是哪一個總統任內提出的，這都是官方的文件，那時候有建議予以提升，要在蘭嶼設一個部立臺東分院，也就是要在這裡設一個醫院，再來臺東衛生局就開始協調用地的問題；然後，2022年原民會與臺東縣政府開始協調原民保留地要怎麼徵收，連監察院後來也去了，你知不知道監察院去了之後寫什麼，監察院調查主管機關就蘭嶼達悟族權益維護之重大建設政策規劃及執行是否妥適去履勘，履勘做什麼，你知道嗎？醫院設址的問題，從頭到尾都在講蘭嶼就是要設醫院，所以大家不要再爭辯。我為什麼要叫石崇良署長上來？你當時是處長，幸好你人還在，這整件事情你都知道，對不對？蘭嶼就是要設分院，這有什麼好講的，有什麼好爭辯的？所以我現在要講的就是，以前國民黨缺德，國民黨以前真的很缺德，把10萬桶放在那裡。","我2011年陪蔡英文總統去蘭嶼的時候，我看到現場慘不忍睹，以前騙人家要蓋罐頭工廠，蓋了之後可以幫助青年就業，結果有蓋罐頭工廠嗎？有，大桶的罐頭、55加侖的，都是放核廢料。部長，你可能沒去過。"],["邱部長泰源：不曾。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，你要去，因為你叫衛福部部長，我覺得你要去，要去看一下當年的政府怎麼荼毒，不然莫名其妙2018年蔡英文不會去道歉，那有當總統亂道歉的，就是因為當初要在蘭嶼要蓋核廢料貯存場，沒有讓蘭嶼人知道，騙人，產生的結果是什麼？如果要照顧老百姓的健康很簡單，你就把蘭嶼的核廢料貯存場移走，可不可能？不可能啊！10萬桶要移去哪裡？第二個就是不然把人移走，可不可能？也不可能啊！兩種都不可能，怎麼辦？政府的責任就來了，你就要照顧人家的健康，不管蔡英文有沒有承諾、賴清德總統有沒有承諾，兩件事政府就是該做，部長，合理吧？你是讀書人。石崇良署長，我這樣講合理吧？"],["石署長崇良：合理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你也點頭了，照護司，合理吧？你們都說合理，可是你們卻互相在推，如果要設衛生所是照護司的事；如果蓋了醫院之後就是醫福會的事，你們就推來推去，所以我具體要求，部長，趕快把它定案，整個興建計畫趕快提出來，匡列預算。召委，對不起！不是我激動，這個歷史真的要說清楚，譬如，以屏東來講就好，幸好蔡英文總統剛好屏東人，蘇貞昌院長也是屏東人，我覺得各個縣市都應該去照顧、全國都照顧，合理，賴總統現在說健康台灣，偏鄉醫療要提升。我舉例給你聽，屏東榮總花了94億，已經蓋好了；屏東部立醫院花了36億，現在在蓋；屏東旅遊醫院要蓋上面8樓，地下室1樓，蘇貞昌院長怎麼說的，你知道嗎？他說一次到位，要人給人、要錢給錢，經費無上限。我沒有隨便亂講，你可以google「蘇貞昌經費無上限」，那臺東呢？過去政府的不當政策荼毒整個蘭嶼，我們不用蓋一個醫院給人家嗎？所以我現在不是跟你說蓋醫院是不是選項，不是！我講的是在蘭嶼蓋醫院叫做責任，而且是無可推卸的責任，但是你們只有在那邊討論來討論去、推來推去，趕快蓋！醫福會，不是這樣說的嗎？不然你只是上來對我笑一下而已，你不是要上來跟我拍桌子具體承諾的嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：醫福會要上來報告現在的進度。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我沒有要聽進度，這叫責任，我請部長具體承諾。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想醫福會……當時是土地的問題，也沒有推來推去，其實從108年部內就一直在討論醫院的興建計畫，評估之後，土地當時是有問題的，譬如，原來的土地不能蓋，因為那裡是神靈的所在地，所以我們就換去別的地方，臺東縣政府也有在找地，現在有一個地方看起來已經克服得差不多。"],["莊委員瑞雄：都克服得差不多，沒問題了嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在要趕快提一個醫院興建的公建計畫，在這當中我們也一直在補充應該有的量能。"],["莊委員瑞雄：今年興建計畫有辦法完成嗎？"],["林執行長慶豐：跟委員報告，因為現在我們的15筆土地裡面，有2筆是被占用的，另外，這些土地其實還需要……"],["莊委員瑞雄：No、No、No，我不問你占用怎麼去排除，我是在問你的興建計畫，我現在在跟你說興建計畫，你不給我具體答復，等一下陳瑩會問得更嚴重，我沒有騙你。"],["林執行長慶豐：因為我們還是需要跟地方溝通，我還是需要它的量，比如它的衛生所。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你跟我講一個時間，蘭嶼那邊我不敢替陳瑩問，但是至少我替臺東關心，可以吧？"],["林執行長慶豐：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：屏東旅遊醫院一開始蓋的時候，蓋8樓包含拆除是3年6個月，上面8樓、地下1樓花5億5，你現在要蓋多大，不會超過3樓吧？"],["邱部長泰源：3樓。"],["莊委員瑞雄：3樓而已，屏東旅遊醫院是137個床位，你現在要幾個床位？不會超過40個吧？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會評估民眾的需求。"],["主席（王委員育敏代）：那個細節是不是你們再討論……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我簡單問你嘛，我要凸顯出來……"],["主席：時間的關係。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你現在要幾個床位？37吧？三十幾吧？屏東旅遊醫院137個床位，蓋地上8樓、地下1樓耗時三年半、花費5億5而已，你這裡需要花多少錢？部長，你具體承諾今年提出興建計畫，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以喔？這是你自己說的喔！等一下陳瑩會問你幾月要提出來。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請廖偉翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-9","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","莊瑞雄","廖偉翔","林淑芬","黃秀芳","王正旭","陳培瑜","楊曜","陳瑩","涂權吉","陳菁徽"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員劉建國等\n16人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利\n法第八條、第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00007"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}