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12.3所以從今年行政院院長所提出來的報告到去年你們年底的時候所給我的預估清楚的看得出來我們再生能源占比整個進度是落後的本來你們預估是12.3結果實際上面只有11.6現實上面的狀況是這個樣子好來蔡英文她在"},{"start":333.513,"end":344.096,"text":"之前2025再生人員20票票了嘛那現在賴清德心喊的是再生人員2026會達到20%達得到嗎我們在努力在努力嘛你們經濟部給我的報告預估是達到多少你知道嗎這白紙黑字啊這個都有經濟部給我的資料啊上面寫上面寫18.9啊"},{"start":361.021,"end":379.896,"text":"上面寫18.9所以連你們經濟部的報告我分兩個層次講第一個經濟部的報告事實上你們的預測跟實際的進度比起來你們的預測已經過度樂觀了第二個我即使按照你們自己所提出來的預測到2026年年底一樣不會達到20%對不對是吧"},{"start":385.339,"end":398.7,"text":"我們現在在努力嘛現在在努力嘛那針對有關於2026要達標的這件事情經濟部現在有鑒於過去的評估已經失準了嗎現在還有沒有在做新的評估出來"},{"start":399.79,"end":428.564,"text":"我們從各個太陽能、離岸風險、地熱、小水利全部把它加起來然後我們現在重新的訂目標重新去整合我們管理的模式改變希望2026年能達到2028年包括你那個管理的模式最新的數據出來了嗎因為從你去年11月給我的數據到今天的角度上面來看就完全失準了"},{"start":429.281,"end":441.795,"text":"那你剛剛有講你們重新有管理模式重新訂目標全部都要加起來非常的好這些新的數據新的預估可以提供嗎我們來做這個報告給你可以嗎好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":711,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時18分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。針對台灣民眾黨立法院黨團所提出來核三延役的公投，您日前在接受媒體訪問的時候，你說這很簡單，只要修法不需要公投，我相信那個直播應該有忠實傳達部長的意思。不過我還想再確定一下，第一個是，所以部長你的意思是只要修法通過，行政部門會執行核三的延役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我的意思是，只要通過這個法，我在這個法的框架之下應該執行的任務，我不會退卻。"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以你還是沒有回答我的問題，法修過只是幫你們在延役的部分除去法規上面的障礙，這是確定的事情，但是立法者可以幫你們除去法規上的障礙，障礙除去掉以後，核三要不要延役這件事情，權力還是在行政部門手上，為了慎重起見，所以我才請教部長，您的意思是，只要法修正通過了以後，行政部門會推動核三延役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想是這個樣子，這個法通過了，經濟部是不是可以獨立來執行這個法，我想我們經濟部可能沒有那麼大的權限。"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，你就代表經濟部發言就好了。"],["郭部長智輝：我代表經濟部，我是經濟部長，我當然是代表經濟部發言。"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個我知道，所以你就代表經濟部發言。"],["郭部長智輝：這個是行政院的職責……"],["黃委員國昌：所以這是行政院才能決定的事情？是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：行政院有要求我們執行的時候，我們一定會執行。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！好，現在下一個問題，公投通過了以後，你覺得行政院要不要執行？"],["郭部長智輝：公投通過了以後行政院要不要執行，行政院會有判斷。"],["黃委員國昌：行政院會判斷？依法行政院可以判斷嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：啊？"],["黃委員國昌：依法行政院可以判斷嗎？公投通過了以後，行政院還有判斷餘地嗎？行政院還可以自己判斷？人民公投的結果出來了以後，行政院還可以自己判斷要不要執行公投的結果？行政院有這個權力嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我不是行政院院長，所以我也不知道我有沒有這個權力。"],["黃委員國昌：其實你不需要是行政院院長就可以知道，因為公民投票法裡面已經規範得非常清楚了，公民投票法規範有關於重大政策，公投通過了以後，就應該由總統或權責機關來實現。否則的話，我們的公民投票法是訂好玩的嗎？所以從這個觀點上面來講，我們立法院幫你們除去了法規上面的障礙，行政院要不要往前再邁一步這件事情，你說你是經濟部長，沒有辦法代表行政院院長發言，這個我尊重。但問題是，我要提醒的是什麼？我要提醒的是依照公民投票法的規定，這種重大政策的公民投票通過了以後，總統或行政權責機關就要執行，這個是法律明確的規定！這是法律明確的規定！到時候行政部門就沒有選擇餘地了。"],["郭部長智輝：當然！"],["黃委員國昌：當然嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：我們同意啊！"],["黃委員國昌：如果是這個樣子的話，你覺得這公投有沒有意義？還是沒意義嗎？這公投意義非常的大啊！公投通過，行政部門就要執行啊！跟單純的立法部門除去掉法規範的障礙以後，行政院要不要執行，行政院還可以做決定，兩個法律狀態完全不一樣啊！我有說錯嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：法律的部分，我尊重委員的……"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係。第二個部分，我上次請教卓榮泰，2025再生能源達到20%，大概這個是確定跳票了啦！現在賴清德總統他希望能夠達成的目標是2026年年底以前，再生能源達到20%，這在媒體上講了非常多次了。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["黃委員國昌：我去年請教卓榮泰的時候，目標大家都會喊，怎麼樣達到那個目標的路徑，才是重要的事情。但很遺憾，可能是卓榮泰去年剛上台，我問他這個問題的時候，他一問三不知，我事後也給行政院，包括經濟部，補交作業的機會。我先請教一下部長，2024年年底我們再生能源的占比達到百分之多少？"],["郭部長智輝：去年是11.5。"],["黃委員國昌：去年是11.5，其實具體的數字應該是11.6。我為什麼敢這樣講？我秀給部長看，因為這個是行政院的施政報告，在今年到立法院來的施政報告，他講的是11.6，我相信施政報告上面寫的數字是正確的，但是去年年底的時候，你知不知道經濟部所提給我的報告，到2024年的時候，你們的預估是達到百分之多少？"],["郭部長智輝：這上面寫12.3。"],["黃委員國昌：12.3，所以從今年行政院院長所提出來的報告，到去年年底的時候，你們所給我的預估，清楚地看得出來，我們再生能源占比整個進度是落後的，本來你們預估是12.3，結果實際上面只有11.6。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["黃委員國昌：現實上面的狀況是這個樣子。蔡英文在之前的2025再生能源20%跳票了，現在賴清德新喊的是再生能源2026會達到20%，達得到嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們再努力。"],["黃委員國昌：再努力嘛！你們經濟部給我的報告預估是達到多少，你知道嗎？這白紙黑字，這個都有經濟部給我的資料。"],["郭部長智輝：上面寫……"],["黃委員國昌：上面寫18.9啊！所以連你們經濟部的報告，我分兩個層次講，第一個，經濟部的報告，事實上，你們的預測跟實際的進度比起來，你們的預測已經過度樂觀了。第二個，我即使按照你們自己所提出來的預測，到2026年底，一樣不會達到20%，對不對？是吧？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在在努力嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：現在在努力嘛！針對有關於2026要達標的這件事情，經濟部現在有鑑於過去的評估已經失準，現在還有沒有再做新的評估出來？"],["郭部長智輝：我們從太陽能，還有離岸風電……"],["黃委員國昌：是，全部把它加起來。"],["郭部長智輝：地熱、小水利……"],["黃委員國昌：是，全部把它加起來。"],["郭部長智輝：然後我們現在重新訂目標，重新去整合，我們管理的模式改變……"],["黃委員國昌：是，好。"],["郭部長智輝：我們希望2026年能夠達到20%。"],["黃委員國昌：那你們重新訂的目標，包括管理的模式，最新的數據出來了嗎？因為從你去年11月給我的數據，到今天的角度上面來看，就完全失準了嘛！你剛剛有講，你們重新有管理模式、重新訂目標，全部都要加起來，非常的好！這些新的數據、新的預估，可以提供嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好，我們來做這個報告給你。"],["黃委員國昌：可以嘛！好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請羅廷瑋委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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