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如果刷卡更好這個卡是我的卡或者他的家人的卡 對不對一拿出來就一槍斃命了就不用解釋那麼多了如果拿出來的結果 欸 這不是喔這個發票是經濟部的發票號碼喔 那就問題就很大條囉那問題就很大條囉這個 你同意我的說法吧你不必替他講話沒關係 你同意我的說法吧"},{"start":137.342,"end":163.916,"text":"所以我說 郭部長對外說明了如果外界還有疑慮外界說明 我有疑慮 我還有疑慮我的疑慮就是show me the evidence給我證據 發票嘛invoice一看 清清楚楚清清楚楚這張審買單 清楚 它不可能是偽照它一定清楚的大家秀出那一張 空白的大家都沒有共啊或者他拿出來 拿來 我拿來一定吃飯"},{"start":165.12,"end":189.757,"text":"我的卡 刷卡 刷這筆金額就清楚 好 我們來看齁台幣狂飆啊 出口很慘啊股會雙殺啊財源啊 放無薪假越來越多我們幾天啊5月22到現在漲了10%什麼意思等於跟關稅談判我們無意中加了10%"},{"start":191.527,"end":214.215,"text":"我看到了媒體報導 我們爭取到10%-15%的這個關稅對等關稅 爭取這樣子啦但是如果加10%上去就是20%-25%你現在提出一個特別條例原來我們不支持你啊你說880 我們說不夠啊 應該編到2000"},{"start":217.794,"end":233.372,"text":"結果你客氣了只編930其他編一些都跟這個沒有關係的我們黨團編了一個沒有關係的不要你要編什麼任性啊你就追加預算 我也支持"},{"start":234.431,"end":260.08,"text":"我在這裡講 增加台灣的本土及社會的韌性 絕對支持但是應該放最佳預算不應該放在特別預算裡面特別預算就是針對這次受到關稅的影響所以我們加一個 現在外銷不好啦外銷已經 外匯死一片啦台中的工具企業"},{"start":262.882,"end":290.768,"text":"叫什麼哀鴻騙爺啊真的是啊他沒有做那麼多欸台積電毛利的損失4% 6%大家外銷產業都很慘了都很慘這時候五星價然後工廠倒退會越來越多這時候擴大內需此時其也啊擴大內需擴大內需所以每個人加一萬塊很有道理啊"},{"start":293.049,"end":316.148,"text":"在蔡英文執政的時候一號經濟條件的條例特別條例就有這樣的六成那時候朱成敏說了六千塊可以創造GPP增加零點算不算按照朱成敏的算法是民進黨執政很重要的一個主計長做很久"},{"start":317.401,"end":345.959,"text":"他的算法 我如果加一萬塊 增加GDP0.5倍擴大內需 經濟學你一定讀過嘛多少你也知道 你行政院長 各位行政院長從經濟的發展 GDP很重要的 一個出口一個內需 一個公共投資一個投資 非常重要的幾條腿所以這時候擴大內需非常重要 你給他錢"},{"start":347.466,"end":350.929,"text":"他會去晃 因為東西漲價啦東西漲價啦 這個你可以回答一下我最後一個問題 這個是我們國民黨團體的版本今天互論喔 我們一起來審查如果表決通過我們的版本民眾黨要發六千 我們發一萬"},{"start":372.998,"end":380.261,"text":"那最少談一談嘛 大家各讓一步八千也好啊一家五口就有四萬塊可以落袋啊"},{"start":381.574,"end":410.253,"text":"從人家來講的話 很補的我現在因為要被罷免了 到處在跑基層啊都聽到一個聲音啊 內委員啊那個啊 發議院會什麼時候發啊我聽了很心酸啊 我說一定會再努力啦但是民進黨的這個執政黨 特別是左龍泰院長都一直反對咧 賴清德也反對咧啊你拿他這個輸贏我說不是這樣講啦 又不是要去打架 講道理我們要說服院長"},{"start":411.821,"end":417.365,"text":"報告委員 發現金對政府來講是最簡單的事情不用做其他事情 就是現金發了而已但對國家真的好嗎"},{"start":428.78,"end":431.341,"text":"我們應該要匯集所有的力量 針對各種產業做直接的支持把一萬塊發給每一個人"},{"start":449.25,"end":453.674,"text":"把五千塊發給手中沒有五千塊的國人這樣比較有他的效益"},{"start":467.193,"end":478.746,"text":"我們會在討論的過程中我不要提問你我們會在討論的過程中去履歷真希望大家能夠體認只有集中不降的力量現在才是最好的方法就是把力量分我到七成區大家都要放一萬我接觸到人都比較窮啦你接觸到人都比較有錢我知道到"},{"start":485.066,"end":500.601,"text":"你這做比較有錢啊現在我都要你這個答案就是如果我通過了要發現金你還是要提富裕 就這樣子你答案是這樣子嗎會在討論的過程當中會在討論要不要提富裕沒有 總院長你會被罵死被窮人罵死"},{"start":505.586,"end":520.092,"text":"我接觸的都是窮人比較多苦人比較多你接觸的有錢人比較多快樂人比較多連有錢人都發一萬塊怎麼窮人罵我呢下一個題目因為你反對啊因為你連有錢人都發一萬塊啊你反對啊來來來"},{"start":525.502,"end":552.33,"text":"這個我另外教授你一個風俗啦昨天AIT的處長 台北處長古立言才說啦向美國買核能解方他幫你處理核安的問題 你講的要啟動核能要幫你處理核廢料他幫你處理啦這個昨天休天的 昨天晚上發的AIT的新聞稿"},{"start":553.561,"end":568.404,"text":"他還幫你這個老人 我今天早上算很久了咧找了幾個合工專家算了一下請問你知不知道我們現在現有的核電廠裡面還有地方可以放機組 你知道嗎你不知道核電廠的範圍當然是很大的裡面還可以放機組 你知道嗎我們要如何看待這些空間來 比如說 核二機場原來放四部機組"},{"start":583.802,"end":609.158,"text":"設計的時候四部機組但它只有放兩部核三要放六部它只放兩部所以這兩個加起來就可以放六部的機組六部的核電的機組一個機組呢發電量可以放多少79億度啊加起來可以79億度"},{"start":611.018,"end":617.86,"text":"每一部的機組花多少錢 兩千億所以六部就花一兆兩千萬院長 我們的談判團正在跟美國談你要跟他講 我跟你買核電啊 給你去工廠給你蓋 那個機組你來蓋安全你負責 核電你負責 運轉你負責我們現在不是抱美國大腿嗎 通通給他負責"},{"start":640.558,"end":660.688,"text":"你有什麼好擔心的 馬上我們的關稅 說不定就減下來了這是教你啊 這麼好的房子我昨天晚上想了很久這個好啊 太好了 太好了一兆兩千億 就是美國要的一兆兩千億 美金多少 四百億"},{"start":662.21,"end":686.906,"text":"我們去年賺到多少?739億他要我們負擔370億我們這個因為匯率提升所以400億完全滿足美國的需要啊說不定關稅可以攤位零喔你要不要感謝我一下請叫如果我們的談判團隊只有這麼一個方案的話不容易得到國人的支持其中之一不是只有這個方案其中之一"},{"start":687.79,"end":713.61,"text":"如果這個方案不能為台灣的核廢料的敘述問題跟我們的核安得到保障的話也不能美國幫你保障啊 你不相信美國喔你依美論喔 你依美論喔你依美論喔 你依美論喔他會請美國處理 他說可以處理 你自己讀一讀內容他樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰"},{"start":715.438,"end":744.71,"text":"你的問題他都能幫你解決了 河岸的問題解決了河外的問題解決 你的行 他幫你運轉都可以 他要做你這個生意啊我給你 你看 我對你多好啊 他幫你想答案啊談判團隊備託的方案是全面性的 全面性的我們的談判決定沒有想過這個 因為這個昨天才發出來的他要這個東西 美國人清楚 他要這筆生意他要這筆生意 你就給他嘛"},{"start":745.896,"end":764.706,"text":"一兆兩千你就給他嘛阿拉斯卡四百多億美金在他的盆土裡面從高山上天然氣下來蓋那個錢我們都願意負擔啊那個是他國家的建設我們都提了負擔了這一筆錢為什麼不能負擔一兆兩千億"},{"start":766.116,"end":775.882,"text":"答應他的核電問題解決要蓋核電同時我告訴你你那個一千億台幣的補助就有希望爭取到在野黨的支持一堅疑不苟 朦朧堅勢可憐我們一再強調新的核能技術我們都願意公開討論好 再看下一題齁這個你不要回答了因為你不是賴清德賴清德的總統對台幣暴升了"},{"start":796.749,"end":825.194,"text":"我認為朱立倫好歹是專業NYU的博士 會計學博士 搞財經的講專業的 還給我小看說因為政治人物的攻防造成市場的誤導跟非理性的預期心理耐心的就說是非常惡劣的現在因為搞大罷免 搞到怎麼樣搞到已經街頭巷尾都快打架了"},{"start":826.664,"end":834.671,"text":"你來罷免 你罷免 你罷免 你罷免你罷免 你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免你罷免"},{"start":852.902,"end":874.307,"text":"街頭巷尾都在吵架這樣的畫面屢見不鮮這個讓台灣民主倒退到獨裁國家就是賴清德這一段的歷史全世界第一個執政黨發動罷免在野黨的國會議員就是賴清德他是歷史的罪人"},{"start":875.291,"end":895.039,"text":"還要走向獨裁這個全國人民要唾棄賴清德這種行為難怪人家說現在反清復明反對賴清德恢復台灣的民主叫反清復明好 我們再看 請那個衛福部長時間暫停 麻煩請衛福部長備選"},{"start":906.237,"end":924.792,"text":"我就問你簡單的一個問題而已 間斷 時間有限川普總統說要 藥品關稅要課 到底什麼藥品你知道我最新的消息 你都不精準控我我怪人家說要換掉你喔 我都希望你不要被換喔你知道我的問題嗎"},{"start":929.861,"end":947.128,"text":"川普最近剛剛簽了說要對所有的醫藥品課稅 課關稅你知道嗎你都不盡有狀況 像二人子一樣還當部長咧 要怎麼辦我們的醫療 藥品的準備相當的充分這樣的部長我希望都能下去做"},{"start":966.056,"end":967.437,"text":"接下來我們請黃秀芳委員執行 王振旭委員請準備"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":136,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（14時46分）謝謝主席、韓院長、卓院長以及各位先進，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：院長好。我質詢一向都很客氣啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：所以如果我沒有要你講話，你就不要講話。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["賴委員士葆：因為我今天要問的問題很多，也拜託主席，如果我沒有請他講話，就不要講話了。","好，我們來看，郭部長被這樣修理，其實我對郭部長一直很有意見，可是如果真的是他自己出錢來宴客，不管是在哪裡請、在他的公司請，我覺得這個無可厚非，要還他清白；可是如果他拿的是公帳，那就有違官箴了。我覺得他只要拿出發票，就一張斃命了嘛！他的公司成立這麼久了，餐廳成立這麼久，一定有發票，發票拿出來給大家看，你看發票的抬頭是空白的，像我去吃飯所拿到的發票都是空白的，因為我沒有公司可以報，所以是空白的，這就是我個人出錢的，很簡單，如果是刷卡更好，這張卡是他自己的卡或者是他家人的卡，對不對？一拿出來就一槍斃命，就不用解釋那麼多了。如果拿出來的結果發現這不是，這個發票是經濟部的發票號碼，那問題就很大條了，你同意我的說法吧？你不必替他講話沒關係，你同意我的說法吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我說郭部長對外說明了，如果外界還有疑慮……"],["賴委員士葆：對外界說明了，可是我還有疑慮，因為我有疑慮，所以就給我證據（show me the evidence），發票（invoice）一看就清清楚楚，可以清清楚楚的看到這張是誰買單，非常的清楚，不可能去偽造，一定是清楚的，對不對？他就show出那一張空白的，大家就沒話講了，或者是他拿出來，我是哪一天吃飯，我刷卡是刷這筆金額，就很清楚了！","好，我們來看臺幣狂飆，出口很慘啊！股匯雙殺啊！裁員、放無薪假也越來越多，才幾天的時間，我們從5月2日到現在漲了10%，什麼意思？等於在關稅談判我們無意中加了10%，我看到媒體報導，我們爭取到10%至15%的對等關稅，但是如果加10%上去就是20%至25%。","你現在提出一個特別條例，原來我們都支持你，你說880億，我們說不夠，應該編到2,000億，結果你客氣了只編930億，其他編一些都跟這個沒有關係的。我們黨團編了一個，沒有關係的不要，你要編什麼韌性，你就追加預算，我也支持，我在這裡講，增加臺灣的本土及社會韌性絕對支持，但是應該要追加預算，不應該放在特別預算裡面，特別預算是針對這一次受到關稅的影響。所以我們加一個，現在外銷都不好了，外銷因為外匯死一片，臺中的工具機業哀鴻遍野，真的是啊！它沒有賺那麼多，台積電的毛利也損失4%至6%，外銷產業都很慘，這時候無薪假、工廠倒閉的會越來越多，這時候擴大內需，此時期也，擴大內需、擴大內需，所以每個人加1萬塊很有道理啊！","在蔡英文執政的時候，疫後經濟特別條例就加了6,000，那時候朱澤民說6,000塊可以創造GDP增加0.3%。他是民進黨執政很重要的一個主計長，做很久了，按照他的算法，加1萬塊可以增加GDP0.5%，擴大內需，經濟學你一定讀過，多少你也知道，你貴為行政院長，對經濟發展、GDP很重要的組成：一個出口、一個內需、一個公共投資、一個投資，這是非常重要的幾條腿，所以這時候擴大內需非常重要，你給他錢，他會去花，因為東西漲價了，這個你可以回答一下嗎？我只有問一個問題，這個是我們國民黨黨團提的版本，今天付委了，我們一起來審查，如果表決通過我們的版本，民眾黨要發6,000，我們發1萬，最少談一談，大家各讓一步，8,000也好，一家五口就有4萬塊可以落袋，對窮人家來講的話很補。","我現在因為要被罷免了，到處在跑基層，我聽到一個聲音，他們問：賴委員，1萬塊什麼時候發？我聽了很心酸，我說：一定會再努力，但是執政黨民進黨，特別是卓榮泰院長都一直反對，賴清德也反對。他們問：你們人那麼多怎麼會輸他們？我說：不是這樣講的，又不是要去打架，而是要講道理，我們要說服院長。你回應一下，好不好？就只回答一個問題，如果我們通過了要發現金，你要不要提覆議？就這樣子。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，發現金對政府來講是最簡單的事情，不用做其他事情，就是現金發了而已。"],["賴委員士葆：很好啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：但對國家真的好嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：當然好啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：對國家真的好嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：朱澤民已經講了很好啊，增加0.3%，6000可以增加0.3%。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，現在跟那個時候的狀況不一樣，你不覺得現在我們應該要匯集所有的力量，針對各種產業做直接的支持……"],["賴委員士葆：你們灌水很多，你們的預算灌水很多耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：我還是那個想法，把1萬塊發給每一個人，不如把5,000塊發給手中沒有5,000塊的國人，這樣比較有它的效益，我現在希望集合……"],["賴委員士葆：報告院長，我希望你不要再講了，我請你講就講，請你不要講就不要講，我時間要控制一下。","我就問你，如果通過你要不要提覆議？你回答這個問題，要不要提覆議？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會在討論的過程當中據理力爭，希望大家能夠體認，只有集中國家的力量才是現在最好的方法，而不是把力量分散。"],["賴委員士葆：可是我到基層去，大家都要發1萬，我接觸到的人比較窮，你接觸到的人都比較有錢。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道這個想法得到大家……"],["賴委員士葆：我現在就要你這個答案，如果通過了要發現金，你還是要提覆議，就這樣子，你的答案是這樣子嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會在討論的過程當中據理力爭、詳細說明。"],["賴委員士葆：會再討論要不要提覆議，是這樣吧？卓院長，你會被罵死，被窮人罵死！我接觸的都是窮人比較多、苦人比較多，你接觸的有錢人比較多、快樂的人比較多，所以你都不要……"],["卓院長榮泰：連有錢人都發1萬塊，窮人怎麼會罵我呢？"],["賴委員士葆：好啦！換一個題目、下一個題目。因為你反對啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為你連有錢人都發1萬塊啊！"],["賴委員士葆：你反對啊！另外，我要送你一個分數，昨天AIT的臺北處長谷立言才說：向美國買核能解方。他幫你處理核安的問題，你說要啟動核能，他會幫你處理核廢料，他幫你處理啊！這是昨天晚上熱騰騰發的AIT新聞稿，他還幫你這個……我今天早上算很久耶！找了幾個核工專家算了一下，請問你知不知道，我們現有的核電廠裡面還有地方可以放機組，你知道嗎？你不知道？"],["卓院長榮泰：核電廠的範圍當然是很大，我們現在是……"],["賴委員士葆：裡面還可以放機組，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要如何看待這些空間的議題……"],["賴委員士葆：比如說，核二廠原來設計的時候放4部機組，但它只放2部，核三廠要放6部，它只放2部，所以兩個加起來就可以放6部核電的機組，一個機組的發電量可以發多少？79億度啊！加起來可以發79億度；每一部機組花多少錢？2,000億，所以6部就花1兆2,000億。","院長，我們的談判團正在跟美國談，你要跟他講：我跟你買核電，工廠及機組由你來蓋，安全你負責、核電你負責、運轉你負責。我們現在不是抱美國大腿嗎？通通給他負責，你有什麼好擔心的，我們的關稅說不定馬上就減下來了，這是教你啊！這麼好的方式，我昨天晚上想了很久，這個好啊！太好了！太好了！1兆2,000億就是美國要的，1兆2,000億是美金多少？400億。我們去年賺到多少？739億，他要我們負擔370億，因為匯率提升，所以是400億，完全滿足美國的需要啊！說不定關稅可以談為零喔！你要不要感謝我一下？請講。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我們的談判團隊只有這麼一個方案的話，不容易得到國人的支持。"],["賴委員士葆：其中之一，不是只有這個方案，其中之一！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果這個方案不能讓臺灣核廢料的去處問題跟我們的核安得到保障的話，也不能……"],["賴委員士葆：美國幫你保障了！你不相信美國喔？你疑美論喔！你疑美論喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：要看清楚這裡講……"],["賴委員士葆：你疑美論喔！你疑美論喔！他會請美國處理，他說可以處理，你仔細讀一讀內容，他樂意幫助臺灣解決核廢料貯存的挑戰，你的問題他都能幫你解決，核安的問題解決了、核廢料的問題解決了，如果你會擔心，他幫你運轉都可以，他要做你這個生意啊！你看，我對你多好啊！都幫你想答案了！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們談判團隊備妥的方案是全面性的……"],["賴委員士葆：其中之一？我們的談判絕對沒有想到這個，因為這個是昨天才發出來的，他要這個東西，美國很清楚他要這筆生意，你就給他嘛！1兆2,000億就給他嘛！阿拉斯加花四百多億美金，在他的本土裡面，從高山上運輸天然氣下來，那筆錢我們都願意負擔了，那個是他國家的建設，我們都替他負擔了，這一筆錢1兆2,000億為什麼不能負擔？答應他了，就解決核電問題，要蓋核電；同時我告訴你，補助台電的1,000億就有希望爭取到在野黨的支持，「一兼二顧，摸蜊仔兼洗褲」。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一再強調，新的核能技術我們都願意公開討論，而且可以共同研發……"],["賴委員士葆：好，再看下一題，這個你不要回答，因為你不是賴清德。賴清德總統對於臺幣暴升……像朱立倫，好歹人家有專業，NYU會計系的博士，搞財金的、講專業的，也還是被人修理，說因為政治人物的攻防，造成市場的誤導跟非理性的預期心理，賴清德這種說法是非常惡劣的，現在因為搞大罷免，搞到怎麼樣？搞到街頭巷尾都已經快打架了，來罷免連署，不要，快要打架了！臺灣最美麗的風景就是人，臺灣的人現在變成是互相敵視，就是因為你們……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有發現這些現象……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要回答，好不好？讓我講完。臺灣現在的結果，造成彼此憎恨對方，因為你不同意我罷免，所以街頭巷尾都在吵架，這樣的畫面屢見不鮮，讓臺灣民主倒退到獨裁國家就是賴清德，這一段的歷史，全世界第一個執政黨發動罷免在野黨的國會議員就是賴清德，他是歷史的罪人，他要走向獨裁，全國人民要唾棄賴清德這一種行為，難怪人家說現在要「反清復民」，反對賴清德，恢復臺灣的民主，叫「反清復民」。","再來，請衛福部部長，他一定要來一下。"],["主席：時間暫停，麻煩請衛福部部長備詢。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：我就問你很簡單的一個問題而已，簡短，因為時間有限。川普總統說要課藥品關稅，到底什麼藥品，你知道嗎？這是最新的消息，你都不進入狀況，難怪人家說要換掉你，我都希望你不要被換，你知道我的問題嗎？川普剛剛簽了說要對所有醫藥品課關稅，你知道嗎？你都不進入狀況，像二愣子一樣，還當部長？部長，怎麼辦？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們醫材藥品的準備相當充分，我們都有做最好的準備，也會發展國內自己的製藥產業。"],["賴委員士葆：這樣的部長我希望多留下幾個，我們比較好發揮，你下臺可惜了，實際上你應該下臺的。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、衛福部部長的備詢。","接下來請黃秀芳委員質詢，王正旭委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}