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部長好今天想跟院長還有部長一起來討論如何來強化我們國人的健康資訊的整合和運用這一部分我在前面說明的時間會比較冗長所以就麻煩院長跟部長能夠擔待因為我們知道自從這個健康台灣推動委員會"},{"start":73.867,"end":95.506,"text":"第一次會議的時候就有定調在這個健康台灣願景規劃裡面我們可以看到其實很多的健康台灣的計畫跟策略都必須要有很好的資料整合與運用這個部分不只是要跨不同的政府部會同時是跨公司部門的"},{"start":96.927,"end":125.834,"text":"這個包括888計畫包括全民心理健康韌性計畫國家癌症防治計畫還有智慧醫療長照三年齡等等如果我們以擴大推動心理健康知識為例的話我們從希望能夠強化民眾的心理健康過程來看光是在青少年這一部分就可能會涉及到衛福部還有教育部的資料整合"},{"start":127.175,"end":141.133,"text":"當然也會包括到內政部還有請政署的資料整合針對整體的民眾而言我們希望在推動這個過程裡面不管是在哪一個生命週期可能在青少年"},{"start":141.857,"end":157.772,"text":"或者是在就業期甚至到成熟老年期以後相關的各種不同的特定人口群的心理健康事實上都需要有一個比較完整的資訊的整合那我相信這個部分院長也會非常非常的關心"},{"start":158.453,"end":185.187,"text":"那進一步針對國家癌症防治的計畫為例的話我們也知道它需要的就是一個橫向的包括各個部會施主的這個整防治的資源那在縱向而言還會包括整合到衛生醫療機構院所還有民間機構團體等等那我們都了解其實癌症的防治最重要的就是在它發病"},{"start":185.851,"end":210.781,"text":"在得到整段癌症之前我們就希望能夠來做一些預防那這個預防裡面前端的預防像是運動、營養還有飲食等等各種的生活習慣將來會涉及到的就是運動部還有農業部相關的資訊那如果在工作的場域方面還有生活環境的這些癌症風險因此的管控"},{"start":212.182,"end":223.075,"text":"還會涉及到的就是有勞動部還有環境部等等的權責所以如何能夠運用這些資訊的整合來降低癌症的死亡率這個需要行政院"},{"start":224.429,"end":249.125,"text":"進行這個跨部會的整合來一起處理我們最後再想利用有關賴總統在第三次的健康台灣推動委員會裡面特別提到想要推動這個整合健診資料來防止慢性病為例的話我們可以發現說在這個部分至少有三個問題需要去了解第一個就是要如何整合"},{"start":249.685,"end":260.417,"text":"散落在各個部會各個單位甚至在各個類型的人員手上的資料第二部分我們到底要採取立法來強制整合呢或者是要用"},{"start":261.784,"end":280.578,"text":"誘因的鼓勵模式來加強這個整合當然第三點就是有關於資安各自的保護還有開放運用的法源是不是有所依據所以我們可以從這張國內各類型的見證法源跟資料持有者的示意圖來看"},{"start":281.579,"end":292.775,"text":"我們看到的就是不同對象的類別不管是勞工、學生、公務人員或國人等等他有不同的法源依據可以得到相關的這些見證的資料"},{"start":294.622,"end":318.236,"text":"我們知道從法務公務人員跟公費的健檢資料來看相對來講處理起來是比較方便的可是針對於勞工的健檢資料學生的健檢資料甚至是國人自費的健檢的資料事實上如果要來整合進入到我們慢性病防治的這個健檢資料庫的話是有它一定的困難度所以在這個挑戰上面"},{"start":319.156,"end":332.729,"text":"我們有三個層次的建議包括第一個就是利用憲法法庭在111年憲判13號要求立法的機會來擴大處理健康資料的整合運用"},{"start":333.632,"end":349.835,"text":"那如果退而求其是要先通過這個健保資料庫法規來處理的話那也希望未來能夠再盡快研議後續的修法時程跟它的完整的內容那其他如果是要定調用"},{"start":350.576,"end":369.961,"text":"政策計畫或者是行政命令來處理的話那也希望有一個完整的配套措施我們認為國人的健康資料在整合運用之前我們都必須要完善的跟社會做好完整的溝通來確保這個治安跟各自的"},{"start":371.936,"end":396.948,"text":"各方面的保障讓人民可以很放心的知道說國家未來在使用這些健康資料的時候對人民還有對個人的健康都是有完整的保障而且是最有利用價值的那這樣的社會的信任才是政策能夠推動好的一個前提所以在這部分我們很期待能夠透過院長"},{"start":399.198,"end":410.093,"text":"這邊多了解一下希望未來在這一部分如何有更好的想法或者是在規劃上有哪一些的期程請院長好 謝謝王委員在健康台灣"},{"start":411.428,"end":434.341,"text":"非常成功的論壇提出了健康台灣的深耕計畫確實讓國內在整個醫療環境上面有了很多更充實的想法那其中我們對於像癌症像罕病像三高已經發病已經有病在身上我們有一套完整的醫療計畫我個人認為在一般國人身上兩個部分非常重要一個是健康促進一個是精準醫療"},{"start":435.529,"end":461.047,"text":"健康促進會讓大家改變生活習慣精準醫療會降低我們在醫療上面的成本也讓病人少於痛苦那這兩個部分要做到就必須要委員所說的這些資訊的整合運用非常非常的重要那台灣有30年非常豐富的健保的資訊在這個我們現在已經在著手在研究對過去的怎麼處理未來的發生怎麼處理那現在"},{"start":461.847,"end":488.874,"text":"在各自保障以及充分信任的原則底下拿出來如何有效來運用才讓國人在健康醫療方面得到更多的保障正是現在在做的工作這個也是說我們委員所說的醫療韌性跟它的永續發展這點是非常重要我們正朝這個方向來做好 謝謝院長所以我們很期待未來在資料的整合可以有更前瞻的做法來完成這樣的任務的政策要求"},{"start":490.15,"end":502.858,"text":"接下來希望跟院長還有部長討論一下如何能夠把危機變成轉機就是如何能夠利用這次關稅的影響來對世界產業鏈的衝擊能夠提升我國在醫療產業的發展跟韌性"},{"start":510.919,"end":536.954,"text":"院長我們知道其實最近很多很多的議題都跟這個美國總統川普對於關稅對全世界造成了影響那就從這個醫藥的原料藥或者是醫材原料各方面來講的話我們知道這個成本可能會有所影響那以原料藥為例全球最主要原料的供給國就是包括中國還有印度那即便將來會在美國製造"},{"start":539.352,"end":552.958,"text":"最後可能也因為這些成本的影響提高而會轉嫁到消費者那會不會就會造成全球藥品跟醫材運用整體性的提高這個都是讓我們所擔心的那面對這樣的關稅衝擊其實在衛房委員會"},{"start":557.22,"end":578.379,"text":"4月16號也排了專案的報告那個時候部長也在這個諮詢過程裡面也做了一些相對的答覆那我在那天的會議上面除了強調藥品跟這個醫材以外事實上還有兩個非常重要的就是有關於疫苗還有血液製劑的這個供應的穩定"},{"start":580.18,"end":604.225,"text":"那我們也知道其實現在是有一些政策來針對於這個疫苗跟血液製劑的供應有相對的這個處理模式可是我們期待的是將來政府能不能夠更積極投入更多的資源有更明確的政策來讓我們這次所碰到的危機變成一個轉機所以我們也期待"},{"start":604.825,"end":629.014,"text":"在這個部分有更好的健康產業的新方向包括建立我們本土的產業鏈來整合進全球的供應鏈裡面還有醫療產業能夠納入經貿的戰略分散供應的來源進而強化資源的投入納入韌性特別條例跟預算"},{"start":630.394,"end":637.083,"text":"這部分院長利用4100億其實也有所琢磨最後當然更期待的是可以"},{"start":638.021,"end":667.581,"text":"提升我們國家整體的戰略規劃來長期支援益助讓這個危機轉化為轉機期待我們在整個醫療韌性上面不只從這個需求來看而已而是希望能夠讓這樣的國家的整體戰略可以達到未來的目標那這部分不知道院長或者是部長有沒有相關的看法好 謝謝委員的指教委員提出來的健康產業的新方向就是我們一直在做的事情"},{"start":668.261,"end":693.831,"text":"那我特別再補充的就是我們剛剛委員提到的幾點第一個當然大家最關心的疫苗那我們在健康台灣的推動小組裡面也成立了國家疫苗產業推動小組那這個也開了兩三次會把產業跟我們技術還有準備在台灣落實我們以國產發展國產的一個疫苗"},{"start":699.844,"end":725.275,"text":"長期要去做的目標那以短期來講因為我們在防疫的疫苗裡面因為短期的供應不會有立即的影響因為我們都是前長期的業所以大致上短期不會影響但是長期來講我們已經成立了一個國家疫苗產業推動小組來進行這件事情那至於其他醫材或者是藥品方面我們也"},{"start":727.03,"end":731.695,"text":"強調一直在推動本土化,像4月26號我們公告兩個辦法,就是對藥品我們鼓勵學民藥的產業在台灣的製造,建立本土的一個產業鏈"},{"start":743.227,"end":763.728,"text":"那在中醫藥方面我們也希望在原料不要一直靠國外我們希望我們台灣有很多地方是可以產很好的產品我們一起中西我們這些都是本土化來對藥品做一個穩定我想這個部分都是增加我們醫材醫藥方面的韌性好 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":765.129,"end":789.88,"text":"那再來我想要跟院長跟部長來討論一下有關於商保協同健保的可能性我們知道這個是一個重要議題如何能夠再強化我們整體的除了現有的全民健保跟商業保險以外提供強化醫療保障第二層的這個健保政策線這是由民眾志願參加的一個保險那這個其實在論壇去年已經完成了"},{"start":790.94,"end":816.411,"text":"國會院完成這個論壇以後也已經撰寫成書等一下我會把這本書獻給院長來做個參考這一部分在這個討論的過程裡面其實有一部分的主力是來自於保險業者或者是相關的業者所以這部分我們很希望能夠有更進一步的政策可行性的探索以外也能不能請院長來責成政委"},{"start":817.471,"end":819.053,"text":"我們健保的體系相當完整在這完整的前提底下"},{"start":840.314,"end":865.817,"text":"但是國人加入商業保險的這個比例也相當的高那如果在兩邊的整合現在是到了一個可以檢討的時候所以我所知道健保署也委託了國衛院在做相關的規劃但是剛剛委員所提醒的是要把這些有些商業模式的概念帶進來才能夠在未來是否可行性的評估上面得到更真實那這一點委員的建議我們會請衛務部來接受這樣的建議"},{"start":866.357,"end":894.644,"text":"好 謝謝那最後一部分也可能要麻煩彭部長就是有關於這個醫療體系環保永續的策略其實賴總統也非常強調這個節能減碳那醫療院所針對這個運用ESCO達到節能減碳的目標也曾經去過長庚醫院那魏晃也去過長庚醫院做了相關的這些努力的了解那彭部長也希望能夠透過導入綠色金融"},{"start":895.464,"end":898.868,"text":"目前醫院裡面就是長庚體系做得最積極現在我們政府有兩個方式一個是環境部是負責私立的醫院"},{"start":917.088,"end":943.392,"text":"比較大型的私立醫院公立的醫院是經濟部在做協助我們大部分已經開始在協助他們診斷了診斷完了之後就要媒合媒合目前私立醫院走得比較順暢公立醫院的確有一點點難度因為基本上他的資源或是他招標的形式比較難進行資金的部分沒有問題因為金管會也協助我們如果需要資金的話金管會的壽險資金都可以來做協助"},{"start":943.792,"end":948.275,"text":"所以現在未來這幾個月是在媒合當中我們希望可以達到委員的目標"},{"start":973.131,"end":977.254,"text":"好 謝謝王哲熹委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 衛福部長 環境部部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請盧憲英委員質詢 李彥秀委員請準備"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":236,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（15時19分）謝謝主席。韓院長，有請行政院卓院長還有衛福部邱部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、衛福部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：院長好，部長好。今天想跟院長及部長一起討論如何強化國人健康資訊的整合與運用，由於我在說明的時間上會比較冗長，就麻煩院長跟部長擔待一下。","我們知道自從健康台灣推動委員會第1次會議時就定調，而我們在健康臺灣願景規劃裡可以看到，很多健康台灣的計畫和策略都必須有很好的資料整合與運用。這不僅跨不同的政府部會，同時也跨公私部門，包括888計畫、全民心理健康韌性計畫、國家癌症防治計畫、智慧醫療及長照3.0等等。","以擴大推動心理健康支持，希望能夠強化民眾心理健康過程來看，光青少年這部分就可能涉及衛福部與教育部的資料整合，當然也包括內政部、警政署的資料整合。","就針對整體民眾而言，我們希望在推動過程裡，不管在哪一個生命週期，可能在青少年或在就業期，甚至到成熟老年期以後，相關各種不同的特定人口群的心理健康，事實上都需要比較完整的資訊整合，我相信院長對此也非常非常關心。","進一步以針對國家癌症防治計畫為例，我們知道這需要橫向的，包括各部會司署的癌症防治資源。至於縱向而言，則包括整合衛生、醫療機構院所與民間機構團體等等。我們都了解，癌症防治最重要的就是在發病前，即在診斷得到癌症之前能夠做一些預防。至於前端的預防，像是運動、營養，還有飲食等等各種生活習慣，則涉及運動部及農業部的相關資訊。如果是工作場域方面和生活環境的癌症風險因子管控，則涉及勞動部、環境部等等的權責。所以如何運用這些資訊的整合來降低癌症的死亡率，需要行政院進行跨部會的整合並處理。","賴總統在第3次健康台灣推動委員會中特別提到，以推動整合健檢資料防治慢性病為例，我們至少有三個問題需要了解：第一，如何整合散落在各部會、各單位，甚至在各類型人員手上的資料？第二，到底是要立法強制整合或者以誘因的鼓勵模式來加強整合？第三，有關資安、個資的保護及開放運用的法源是不是有所依據？","從國內各類型的健檢法源與資料持有者的示意圖可以看到，不同的對象類別，不管是勞工、學生、公務人員或國人等等，都有不同的法源依據可以得到相關的健檢資料。其中法務、公務人員跟公費的健檢資料相對而言，處理起來是比較方便的。但針對勞工的健檢資料、學生的健檢資料，甚至是國人自費的健檢資料，如果要整合並進入慢性病防治健檢資料庫的話，則具有一定的困難度。","因此，在挑戰上，我們有三個層次的建議：第一個，利用憲法法庭111年憲判字13號要求立法的機會，擴大處理健康資料的整合運用。如果退而求其次要先通過健保資料庫法規來處理的話，也希望未來能夠再儘快研議後續的修法時程跟完整的內容，其他如果需要定調用政策計畫或是行政命令來處理的話，也希望有完整的配套措施。","我們認為，國人的健康資料在整合運用之前，都必須要完善的跟社會做好完整的溝通，確保資安跟個資等各方面的保障，讓人民可以很放心的知道，國家未來在使用這些健康資料的時候，對人民還有對個人的健康都有完整的保障，而且是最有利用價值的。社會的信任才是政策能夠推動良好的前提，所以在這部分，我們很期待能夠透過院長這邊多了解一下，希望未來在這部分如何有更好的想法或者是在規劃上有哪一些期程？請院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝王委員。在非常成功的健康台灣論壇上提出的健康台灣深耕計畫，確實讓國內在整個醫療環境上面有更多更充實的想法，其中對於像癌症、像罕病、像三高，已經有病在身上的，我們有一套完整的醫療計畫。我個人認為，在一般國人身上有兩個部分非常重要，一個是健康促進；一個是精準醫療。健康促進會讓大家改變生活習慣；精準醫療會降低我們在醫療上的成本，也能讓病人減少痛苦，要做到這兩個部分，就必須如委員所說的，相關資訊的整合運用非常非常重要。","臺灣有30年非常豐富的健保資訊，這部分我們現在已經著手研究，對過去的要怎麼處理，未來發生的怎麼處理，現在在個資保障以及充分信任的原則底下拿出來，如何有效地運用，才能讓國人在健康醫療方面得到更多的保障，這是現在在做的工作。這個也是委員所說的醫療韌性及其永續發展，這點非常重要，我們正朝這個方向來做。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝院長，我們很期待未來在資料的整合會有更前瞻的作法，來完成這樣的任務跟政策要求。","接下來希望跟院長和部長討論一下，如何能夠把危機變成轉機？就是如何利用這次關稅的影響對世界產業面造成的衝擊，能夠提升我國在醫療產業的發展跟韌性。院長，我們知道最近很多很多議題都跟美國總統川普的對等關稅對全世界造成的影響，就從醫藥的原料藥或是醫材原料各方面來講，我們知道可能會對成本有所影響。以原料藥為例，全球最主要原料藥的供給國包括中國還有印度，即便將來會在美國製造，最後可能也因為成本提高的影響而會轉嫁到消費者，會不會因此造成全球藥品跟醫材運用整體性的提高，這個都是讓我們所擔心的。","面對這樣的關稅衝擊，其實衛環委員會在4月16號也安排了專案報告，當時部長在質詢過程中也相對地做了一些答復。我在那一天的會議上面，除了強調藥品跟醫材以外，事實上還有兩個非常重要的，就是有關於疫苗還有血液製劑的供應穩定。我們也知道，其實現在是有一些政策針對於疫苗跟血液製劑的供應，有相對的處理模式，可是我們期待的是，將來政府能不能更積極投入更多的資源，有更明確的政策，來讓我們這次所碰到的危機變成一個轉機。我們也期待在這個部分有更好的健康產業的新方向，包括建立本土的產業鏈並整合進全球的供應鏈裡面；還有將醫療產業納入經貿戰略，分散供應的來源；強化資源投入，納入韌性特別條例跟預算，這部分院長利用4,100億其實也有所著墨；最後，當然更期待可以提升我們國家整體戰略規劃與長期資源挹注，讓這個危機轉化為轉機，期待我們在整個醫療韌性上面，不只從需求來看而已，而是希望能夠讓這樣的國家整體戰略可以達到未來的目標，這部分不知道院長或部長有沒有相關的看法？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的指教。委員提出來的健康產業的新方向，就是我們一直在做的事情，我特別再補充的是，剛剛委員提到的幾點，第一個當然是大家最關心的疫苗，我們在健康台灣推動小組裡面也成立了國家疫苗產業推動小組，也開了兩、三次會，把產業跟我們的技術，還有怎麼樣在臺灣落實我們國產、發展國產的疫苗，這是中長期要去做的目標；以短期來講，我們在防疫的疫苗裡面，短期的供應不會有立即的影響，因為我們都是簽長期的約，所以大致上短期不會影響，但是長期來講，我們已經成立一個國家疫苗產業推動小組來進行這件事情。","至於其他醫材或者是藥品方面，我們強調也一直在推動本土化，像4月16、26號我們有公告兩個辦法，就是對於藥品，我們鼓勵學名藥在臺灣製造，建立本土的產業鏈，在中醫藥方面，我們也希望原料不要一直靠國外，希望我們臺灣有很多地方是可以有很好的產出，中西這些都要本土化，讓藥品能夠穩定，我想這個部分都是增加我們醫材、醫藥方面的韌性。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。再來我想要跟院長、部長討論有關於商保協同健保的可能性，我們知道這是一個重要議題，如何能夠來強化我們整體的，除了現有的全民健保跟商業保險以外，提供強化醫療保障第二層的健保政策險，這是由民眾自願參加的一個保險，這個其實在論壇去年已經完成了，國衛院完成這個論壇以後也已經撰寫成書，等一下我會把這本書獻給院長做個參考。這部分在討論的過程裡面，其實有一部分的阻力是來自於保險業者或者是相關的業者，所以這部分我們很希望能夠更進一步的探索政策可行性以外，能不能請院長責成政委進一步做後續的討論？最好是有財經相關的政委協助跨部會的研議，因為我們所了解的這個阻力是來自於保險業者的話，這部分的推動期待有它的未來性，不知道這部分院長可不可以有所允諾？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們健保的體系相當完整，在這個完整的前提底下，國人加入商業保險的比例也相當高，如何做兩邊的整合，現在到了可以檢討的時候，所以我所知道的，健保署也委託國衛院在做相關的規劃，但是剛剛委員所提醒的是，要把有些商業模式的概念帶進來，才能夠在未來是否可行性的評估上面得到更真實，這一點委員的建議，我們會請衛福部接受這樣的建議。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。最後一部分可能要麻煩彭部長，就是有關於醫療體系環保永續的策略，其實賴總統也非常強調節能減碳，醫療院所針對運用ESCO達到節能減碳的目標也曾經去過長庚醫院，衛環委員會也去過長庚醫院，做了相關的這些努力、了解，彭部長也希望能夠透過導入綠色金融的資源來協助ESCO，這部分部長在5、6月份可能會對外說明，可不可以利用這一次的時間讓部長有說明的機會？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。目前醫院裡面是長庚體系做得最積極，現在我們政府有兩個方式，一個是環境部負責私立的醫院、比較大型的私立醫院，公立的醫院則是經濟部在做協助，我們大部分已經開始在協助他們診斷，診斷完了之後就要媒合，那媒合，目前私立醫院走得比較順暢，公立醫院的確有一點點難度，因為基本上它的資源或是招標的形式比較難進行，資金的部分沒有問題，因為金管會協助我們，如果需要資金的話，金管會的壽險資金都可以協助，所以未來這幾個月是在媒合當中，我們希望可以達到委員的目標。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。我這邊有3個建議，包括研擬對私立醫院節能減碳有獎勵制度，另外就是研議提供公立醫院足夠的法源和預算，最後就是針對醫療機構的特殊性，能夠提供專案式的ESCO，讓醫療專業的部分可以不要和其他服務業有所競爭。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王正旭委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、衛福部部長、環境部部長備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請盧縣一委員質詢，李彥秀委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}