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各位先生 辛苦主委 在這裡本學會跟你談到的就是說因為在最近我們的選舉發生的時候應該是投機生 大家要拿 要簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽名簽"},{"start":37.623,"end":38.904,"text":"另外一種,把人家的籤,我們就要以罷之罷,要來籤,做一路補課的,來籤的當中,到我相信,到我們用車位,到有這麼多過往的人"},{"start":55.35,"end":57.252,"text":"在過往的人當中,你看我們基隆的面前處長,看完後,他剛才說,那一切不是你們的人啊!要不說不是你們的人,也是真正是你們地方選舉委員會的人啊!"},{"start":78.065,"end":90.291,"text":"在這個過程當中,我認為非常不該,也非常對北省、對政府,最好一個信任就沒有了像今天我們的董事"},{"start":95.967,"end":98.77,"text":"翁小玲立委,大立委喔,說如果選辦法有違法的、有不法的,應該是要所有的出力量"},{"start":114.724,"end":119.488,"text":"他的部分來處理,這樣是不對的主委,如果像這樣說,如果科技做表的人繼續做表跟檢考員看到也不可以再糾正,單方放出來的時候,再說他做表"},{"start":137.335,"end":138.676,"text":"又來討價錢,再討價錢之後,放茶餚去拿,拿到貴賃,拿到料,再用監視器說,這個茶餚在我們家做茶餚"},{"start":151.783,"end":159.985,"text":"再來想想,如果萬一有一天台灣讓我們逃不掉我們知道它已經要逃不掉台灣了我們還不可以說要等待台灣逃不掉之後還可以說嗎?如果它的論述、它的公法是這樣跟這個中華民國這樣覺得有關聯嗎?我們的公務人員"},{"start":183.318,"end":193.562,"text":"在兩百四十一條的 依然沒有不對我們本來就要來計劃 要來處理啦北省如果有這不對的規劃我們也需要來講咧什麼羨慕我們第二階段 第一階段處理了剛剛來來糾正主委"},{"start":211.618,"end":216.263,"text":"本席講到這氣氛,沒有找一個大大的立委,對他看來說他過勞多過勞,說這個委實在委上的不應該啦,假扮孩子大小,主委,在本席剛才所說的,你們委內"},{"start":236.865,"end":257.314,"text":"謝謝委員的指教中山會的做法是這樣我們根據平時所想法241條的規定只要我們在執行職務的時候發現有犯罪的嫌疑的話那我們在職務上就有告發的義務那這個告發的義務我的意思就是說你當時發現到你就當時去告發"},{"start":261.636,"end":269.018,"text":"即時的告發其實這個也是確保犯罪的追溯能夠有效的進行很重要的點那我們在告發之後司法機關他們辦案的節奏有他們一定的規定這個我們予以尊重"},{"start":290.083,"end":311.491,"text":"因為主委本省會跟你談到這個就是說因為選辦法是你們單位所去管理的白色的第一階段第二階段都是你們的管理的第三階段竟然是你們的管理的所以在這個規定當中我覺得不管的不管帶一棟帶一個單位都是要"},{"start":320.322,"end":325.667,"text":"下去做的啦 要舉報的啦因為我覺得最惡劣的就是你抄名也好 拿人的名也好你現在在那裡說這個有貴心或不貴心說實在 各自的東西 政府的東西可以這樣處理嗎"},{"start":345.828,"end":349.869,"text":"這基隆說實在 一定無法無聽啦實在亂來啦所以在這裡我覺得對任何一個百姓看到基隆發生這個事情大家都非常憤怒 不關大一棟的哪有做一個主觀做到去對這個問題啦"},{"start":376.46,"end":383.103,"text":"諸位,在這裏面,我認為這是非常悲傷,覺得對政府一種心內的苦惱因為我認為大家都說各自各自,大家說各自要保護保護和政府機關,但我們的各自是如此的囤堵"},{"start":401.789,"end":404.69,"text":"所以本市在這裡也要跟你說,我們的罷免的日期也有五月,也有六月二十的在這個過程當中,我們是不是可以因為我們這個要跟委員會開會嘛,當時要投票的"},{"start":427.24,"end":434.104,"text":"如果有幾個做一屆,是不是可以做回投票?因為,主委,我們是要給你的意見就是說,如果你們再開票的時候,是不是這個人那樣說,還有這麼多人,抱歉,不管是帶一張牌,我們為了要讓這個孫武靈丸做一屆,"},{"start":454.458,"end":462.642,"text":"比較方便 比較省 要不然為了國家的健全改開的時候的費用我們也要開啦尤其今年可能有公投的問題也已經提出啦在本省所了解可能是在八月二三啦在八月二三當中我們是不是可以跟"},{"start":483.511,"end":488.154,"text":"這會罷免選舉,這會提拔嗎?因為這我的意見給你,因為你也沒辦法我回答說可以不行啦"},{"start":495.435,"end":499.958,"text":"但是拜託主委如果開會前,跟委員會大家的意見都可以做參考主委我要來請教一下,我們的基隆發生這個事情,到不成為止你們如果請求全台灣的專務領域的地方主委開會嗎?來主委你回答"},{"start":527.585,"end":534.29,"text":"我們例行的會議每個月都有主管會報另外專案會議現在有專案專案跟例行的都會邀請我們各地的專職的副總幹事參加線上的會議每一次的這個會議我們都是針對各地在選務方面可能產生的問題"},{"start":555.586,"end":559.548,"text":"他們在執行的時候 有發現什麼疑問的問題 大家提出來做參考尤其這點非常重要 差不多每次都會說到 要堅持我們的選務中立這一點都會特別重點對啦 我們要中立啦 因為你沒有中立 像基隆這樣 國家就海洋洋了啦"},{"start":579.71,"end":583.112,"text":"跟應援組委我這次的時間到我後面還有兩件要這次的問題我會用書面幫你探討,麻煩你開給我好,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":393,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時12分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：李主委有請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員，你好。"],["王委員美惠：主委早，辛苦了。主委，本席在這裡要跟你探討的就是有關最近的罷免。原先應該是大家在連署書上簽名，到最後發現怎麼有這麼多人要被罷免，另外一黨就說既然別人在發動簽名連署，他們也要以罷制罷，要來簽名連署，甚至做不法的事情來進行簽名連署，還用抄的，許多往生的人也抄進來。你看基隆市政府民政處處長有多惡質？剛才主委說已經不是選委會人員，不過就算不是，也曾經是你們地方選舉委員會的人，所以我覺得非常不應該，因為他讓百姓對政府最後的信任都沒有了。","像今天我們的同事翁曉玲立委、大立委說，如果依選罷法有違法的、有不法的，應該要等所有的都處理完，再處理不法的部分，這樣是不對的。主委，如果像他這樣說，難道考試作弊的人就繼續讓他作弊，即使監考員看到也不可以糾正，等到放榜的時候再說他作弊嗎？在家裡看到小偷偷錢，難道要等他偷完、把偷來的錢花完，再用監視器的畫面認定他在我們家偷錢嗎？再來，最惡質的就是萬一有一天他們要偷賣臺灣，我們已經知道他們要偷賣臺灣，我們卻不可以說，還要等到他們把臺灣偷賣掉以後才可以說嗎？照他這樣的論述、講法，中華民國還有法律嗎？依照刑事訴訟法第二百四十一條，公務人員如果看到有人做得不對，本來就要舉發、要處理；百姓如果有做得不對的、違法，我們也要跟他講。說什麼等第一階段、第二階段處理完再來糾正？主委，本席說到非常氣憤，他身為一個大立委，說自己對法律有多厲害，竟然說出這種話，實在非常不應該，「教歹囡仔大細」！主委，依本席剛才所說的，你認為呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員的指教。中選會的做法是這樣，根據刑事訴訟法第二百四十一條的規定，只要我們在執行職務的時候發現有犯罪嫌疑的話，我們在職務上就有告發的義務。這個告發的義務原則上就是什麼時候發現到，就在那個時候去告發。"],["王委員美惠：不分黨派，不分哪一黨的，不分藍綠白，只要發現有違法就要處理嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：即時的告發其實也是確保犯罪的追訴能夠有效地進行很重要的點。"],["王委員美惠：對。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們在告發之後，司法機關辦案的節奏有他們一定的規定，我們予以尊重。"],["王委員美惠：主委，本席之所以跟你探討這個，就是因為選罷法是你們主管的，第一階段、第二階段的連署都是你們主管的，第三階段更加是你們在管理的。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["王委員美惠：所以過程中，只要有不法，不管哪一黨、哪一個單位，都要加以舉報。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["王委員美惠：我覺得最惡質的就是抄名字也好、拿人家的名單也好，在那邊查對連署人有沒有往生，說實在的，個資的東西、政府的東西可以這樣處理嗎？基隆這個案子，說實在的，已經無法無天了，實在是亂來！主委，百姓看到基隆發生這種事情，不管哪一黨，大家都非常地憤慨，作為主管，竟然出這種問題！主委，這會讓百姓對政府一點信賴都沒有。大家都說個資、個資，要保護個資，政府機關居然把我們的個資這樣處理？","主委，罷免日期有5月，也有6月24日的，我們是不是可以……因為還要經過委員會開會，包括什麼時候要投票？如果有多人，是不是可以一起投票？本席的意見是，你們開會的時候，是不是可以考量，既然有這麼多人要被罷免，不管是哪一個黨派，讓選務人員一次處理比較方便也合適，但是為了國家的健全，該花的費用也要花。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["王委員美惠：尤其今年可能有公投，也已經提出來了，據本席所瞭解，可能是在8月23日，所以我們是不是可以把罷免的選舉一起舉辦？這是我的意見，雖然你也沒辦法回答我可以或是不可以，但還是拜託主委在委員會開會的時候，其實大家的意見都是可以拿來做參考。","主委，請教一下，基隆發生這種事情，到目前為止，你是否有請全臺灣與選務有關的地方主委來開會？請主委回答。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們有例行的會議，每個月都有主管會報。"],["王委員美惠：例行的我知道啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：另外也有專案會議。現在的專案跟例行會議，都會邀請我們各地專職的副總幹事參加線上的會議，每一次的會議，我們都是針對各地在選務方面可能產生的問題，他們在執行的時候，有發現什麼樣疑問的問題，大家提出來做參考，尤其這一點非常重要，即差不多每次都會說到要堅持我們的選務中立，這點都會特別強調。"],["王委員美惠：對啦！我們要中立啦！因為如果不中立，就像基隆這樣，這個國家的體制就被破壞了。主委，我的質詢的時間到了，後面還有兩個要質詢的問題，所以我會用書面來跟你探討，麻煩你再回復我。以上，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員的質詢。","下一位請黃捷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","高金素梅","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}