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他們這三個月來每天在外面擺攤別的年輕人在聽音樂會另外一批年輕人跑到音樂會門口希望他們的朋友們希望關心台灣未來的這些朋友們一起參加罷免來保護台灣的民主來針對去年種種的這些亂象來罷免"},{"start":342.452,"end":363.567,"text":"他不是要中選會你去喬時間他們已經辛苦在外面三個月了三個月辛辛苦苦每一張請所有的認同他們的人來提出的罷免聯署書可以讓你們這樣子要求跟公投一起投票你們就答應嗎我覺得"},{"start":365.728,"end":390.122,"text":"要非常尊重所有的罷免團體因為我們看到這些年輕人他們已經在外面已經很辛苦的簽了三個月如果你一個選務機關可以直接裁定把他們辛辛苦苦這個禮拜就送件七月中就要投票硬是要往後延我覺得這個是不對的所以 主委"},{"start":391.621,"end":406.788,"text":"尊重罷免團體的這些憤怒尊重罷免團體的這些時程我覺得中選會也必須要有一定的尊照這些法律規定的這些時間來做執行 主委你會不會尊照"},{"start":408.517,"end":427.818,"text":"選罷法裡面目前包含40天查核期包含成案之後20天到60天投票20天裡面的這些裁量他們已經憤怒很久了已經3個月了接下來再40天4個月了希望中選會可以秉公的來處理"},{"start":429.595,"end":454.633,"text":"報告委員每一個案件它的進行的時程不同所以它成案的時間也會有差異所以我剛剛跟你討論的時間就是在我們現在剛剛業務報告裡面有講的20件包含這一周都還在送件的這一些進度裡面我推算的時間主委剛剛也有推算出來是在7月中旬"},{"start":455.473,"end":476.264,"text":"但是他不會是所有的案件都是在那一邊所以可能會有落差那如果沒有補件明顯超過這一些我們現在就可以看到明顯超過百分之一百二一百三的這一些可能就很有機會在七月中旬我們大概是三個原則第一個原則就是必須要合法"},{"start":477.076,"end":504.848,"text":"因為每一個案件就是法律規定在他宣告成立之後20到60天之內要辦理投票這一定要符合法律的規定第二個一定要在這個社會成本的考量之下你這樣不斷地動彎社會輔助最大的成本這當然我們選務機關也不容易看到那第三個還要考慮到我們選務的能量我們可以打幾打"},{"start":506.589,"end":528.003,"text":"所以我們基於這三個考量按照每一個案子進行的時序我們會提到委員會去來做審慎的決定最後他們補考的題目我也講一下啦國民黨提出的公投有兩個一個是反廢死一個是反戰爭"},{"start":530.814,"end":556.225,"text":"大概這兩個但是他的這些內容文字明顯的很難處理讓人很難去做這個公投的投票所以如果立法院提出的違反公投法第二條的公投案第二條就是說他不是法律的覆決他不是立法原則的創制他是重大政策的創制或覆決但是他的重大政策裡面的問句又特別多"},{"start":556.857,"end":562.667,"text":"你沒有辦法讓人民判斷請問中選會要怎麼處理我們還有什麼救濟的手段"},{"start":563.335,"end":589.032,"text":"中選會是依法來執行職務他如果違反第二條立法院根據公民投票法15條第二項的規定他是可以就公民投票法第二條第二項第三款也就是所謂的重大政策的創製或複決來交付公投重大政策說不要戰爭不要戰爭就是說"},{"start":592.514,"end":618.702,"text":"這個國防 我們跟美國買太多國防會惹怒中國可能會引發戰爭這樣合理嗎這個是最基本的條件我是不敢說它合不合理最基本的條件就是說你一定要護航你提出來的案子必須是重大政策的覆決或創制那我們中選會就會跟著辦下去好 謝謝主委時間的關係 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時）辛苦了，請李主委。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭）：李主委有請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，辛苦了。我先謝謝牛煦庭召委今天很關心我們中選會的業務而安排這個業務報告，其實我也知道最關心的是即將被罷免，可能二階之後即將投票，然後包含種種的這些過程，我想大家都提出一些問題，其實他們最想知道的是什麼？我是說被罷免的人，現在二階已經送件送到選委會，然後現在正在審查，審查期間有多久？40天嘛。"],["李主任委員進勇：40天。"],["李委員柏毅：所以如果是今天（5月7號）送件的話，如果他是達標的，他的查對是沒有問題的，40天內，所以最快應該是在一個月……6月中旬就成案了，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["李委員柏毅：6月中旬成案之後，20天到60天內舉行投票對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["李委員柏毅：如果20天舉行投票的話，最快最快是7月就可以投票了。"],["李主任委員進勇：7月上旬。"],["李委員柏毅：7月上旬就可以投票了。這一次的罷免團體非常的特別，是從什麼時候開始的？從去年開始，國民黨跟民眾黨推動國會擴權法案，引發很多人的注意，從沈伯洋委員被推下發言臺那一刻開始，立法院外面的青鳥集結，從國會擴權法案被宣告無效之後，國民黨跟民眾黨持續推動憲訴法，要讓宣告違憲的憲法法庭沒有辦法開會，持續推動選罷法的修法，要求未來如果要連署罷免的人要附身分證，繼續推動，刪除很多的預算，把預算做了很多的刪除，引發這些罷免團體從2月開始集結、送件，最快是2月3號、4號開始送件，也就是符合一年開始送件，其實這個過程裡面有給他們補考的機會，如果2月3號以後一階送件，在行政院提出預算的覆議，3月12號投票的時候，其實我想如果讓總預算順利的可以覆議的話，這些二階不會那麼踴躍，畢竟總預算刪掉的，包含在這個委員會裡面，海委會、海巡署被刪掉的預算、被統刪15%的預算，是統刪掉臺灣國防15%的預算裡面，包含今年海巡署有兩艘艦艇可能沒有辦法交艦，是這樣嚴重的這些過程而累積這些二階的連署，讓這些二階的連署到今天，從一階開始到現在，從2月到現在過了三個月，剛剛主委報告二階連署目前已經有20件送件了，還有30件還是在連署當中。","依我的估計，看所有這些公民團體的這些數量來估計，依我們的估計，這個禮拜可能還會有很多的送件，這禮拜還會有很多的送件，都將會集中在7月中旬以前投票，所以國民黨現在跟民眾黨各提了兩個公投法，公投法的規定是每年8月的什麼時候要投票？8月……"],["李主任委員進勇：23日。"],["李委員柏毅：8月23日，也就是離7月中旬還有一個月的時間，所以剛剛也有國民黨的委員要求主委要把罷免投票跟公投綁在同一天，這個是他們以為他們可以補考的機會，主委，你不用回答，因為罷團的每一個人、所有這些青鳥們，這三個月來他們每天在外面擺攤，別的年輕人在聽音樂會，另外一批年輕人跑到音樂會門口，希望他們的朋友們、希望關心臺灣未來的這些朋友們一起參加罷免，來保護臺灣的民主，針對去年種種的這些亂象來罷免。他不是要中選會去喬時間，他們已經在外面辛苦三個月了，三個月辛辛苦苦，每一張請所有認同他們的人來提出的罷免連署書，可以讓你們這樣子要求跟公投一起投票，你們就答應嗎？我覺得要非常尊重所有的罷免團體，因為我們看到這些年輕人，他們已經很辛苦的在外面簽了三個月，如果你一個選務機關可以直接裁定，把他們辛辛苦苦，這個禮拜就送件，7月中就要投票，硬是要往後延，我覺得這個是不對的，所以主委，尊重罷免團體的這些憤怒、尊重罷免團體的這些時程，我覺得中選會也必須遵照這些法律規定的這些時間來做執行。主委，你會不會遵照選罷法裡面，目前包含40天查核期，包含成案之後20天到60天投票，20天裡面的這些裁量？他們已經憤怒很久了，已經三個月了，接下來再40天就四個月了，希望中選會可以秉公處理。"],["李主任委員進勇：報告委員，每一個案件進行的時程不同，所以它成案的時間也會有差異。"],["李委員柏毅：所以我剛剛跟您討論的時間就是剛剛業務報告裡面有講的20件，包含這一週都還在送件的這些進度裡面，我推算的時間，主委剛剛也有推算出來是在7月中旬要進行投票。"],["李主任委員進勇：不會是所有的案件都是在那一天。"],["李委員柏毅：當然、當然，有一些可能有補件。"],["李主任委員進勇：所以可能會有落差。"],["李委員柏毅：如果沒有補件，明顯超過這一些……我們現在就可以看到，明顯超過百分之一百二、一百三的這些，可能就很有機會在7月中旬來投票，包含召委啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們大概是三個原則，第一個原則就是必須要合法，因為法律規定，每一個案件在宣告成立之後，20到60天之內要辦理投票，這一定要符合法律的規定；第二個，一定要在社會成本的考量之下，若不斷的動員，社會要付出太大的成本，當然我們選務機關也不願意看到；第三個還要考慮到我們選務的能量，我們可以負荷多少，這個也要稍微考慮一下，這樣才會順利。"],["李委員柏毅：好，這個都列入考慮。"],["李主任委員進勇：所以我們基於這三個考量，按照每一個案子進行的時序，我們會提到委員會來做審慎的決定。"],["李委員柏毅：最後他們補考的題目我也講一下，國民黨提出的公投有兩個，一個是反廢死，一個是反戰爭，大概是這兩個，但是它的內容文字明顯的很難處理，讓人很難去做這個公投的投票。所以如果立法院提出違反公投法第二條的公投案，根據第二條，它不是法律的複決、它不是立法原則的創制，它是重大政策的創制或複決，但是它的重大政策裡面的問句又特別多，沒有辦法讓人民判斷，請問中選會要怎麼處理？我們還有什麼救濟的手段？"],["李主任委員進勇：中選會是依法來執行職務的。"],["李委員柏毅：它如果違反第二條？"],["李主任委員進勇：立法院根據公民投票法第十五條第二項規定，可以就公民投票法第二條第二項第三款，也就是所謂的重大政策的創制或複決來交付公投。"],["李委員柏毅：重大政策說不要戰爭！不要戰爭就是說我們跟美國買太多國防武器會惹怒中國，可能會引發戰爭，這樣合理嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個是最基本的條件，我是不敢說它合不合理，最基本的條件就是一定要符合提出來的案子必須是重大政策的複決或創制，那我們中選會就會跟著辦下去。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝主委，時間的關係，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭）：謝謝李柏毅委員的質詢。","下一位請賴士葆委員質詢，我們在賴委員質詢完之後，休息5分鐘，進行臨時提案的溝通。請賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","高金素梅","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}