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各位委員有請這個主委李主委有請委員好主委辛苦了我們看這個今天中選會的報告裡面特別提到公職人員罷免案電子連署系統整備情形"},{"start":34.858,"end":62.867,"text":"特別提到這個公職人員罷免案電子連署系統107年6月15號建制完成這裡面也特別提到本會將視全國性公民投票電子連署系統實際使用情形評估公職人員選罷法罷免案電子連署系統上限事宜所以這個部分預估什麼時候會開始"},{"start":65.652,"end":91.208,"text":"我們從去年下半年以來就積極的進行這個系統的維護測試希望他一上線之後是零缺點的因為罷免的事情也相當的敏感出不得任何的差錯所以到目前為止我們各項測試的工作進行的都相當的順利"},{"start":92.709,"end":115.755,"text":"不過這個時候剛好就是一個罷免潮所有的規則都是按照既定的程序在走這個時候我們就沒有去考慮說是不是要把它上限我想等到這一波過了之後我們會審慎的來律定這上限的時間好 這個因為這個選罷法也有修正"},{"start":122.341,"end":147.889,"text":"是这段时间选办法也有修正有没有因为选办法的修正这个系统要做因应调整的是有没有啊都有跟着都有跟着好这个那我请教一下哈公职人选举办法第76条这次有修正吗近期有修正吗啊就是针对这个第三项哈"},{"start":148.988,"end":173.685,"text":"第一項體育人名冊應依規定格式竹籃填詳時填寫填寄體育人國民身份證統一編號及附及地然後呢這裡面提到體育人填寄時應附本人之國民身份證正版面影本這樣的一個修正條文跟這個系統電子系統"},{"start":175.911,"end":201.185,"text":"有沒有需要怎麼樣去做沒有沒有影響因為我們的連署系統是必須要用自然人憑證那自然人憑證他就可以取代身份證那所以他不用檢附國民身份證影印本用電子連署的是不用電子連署這個在哪裡有規定電子連署就不用"},{"start":202.601,"end":231.639,"text":"條文法例沒有規定喔因為電子聯署他本身就是用國民就是用這個自然人身份證因為這個新的修正請中選會在跟內政部這個法是內政部的嘛對不對在跟內政部協調因為寫得很明確喔應付本人之國民身份證正反面"},{"start":232.954,"end":259.665,"text":"銀本條文是寫寫的這麼明確所以不能再跟內政部好不好我們再做確認對再跟內政部因為這法是內政部的執行是你們的好不好然後我們看這個公職人選舉罷免法第79條有規定這個選委會說到罷免案提議後應於25日內查對提議的名冊"},{"start":260.822,"end":288.963,"text":"有下列情事之一者應以刪除第一款就是不符合76條剛才有講過76條好我們看這個還有第二款提議人有第77條第一項身份當然全部有列了六款請問一下這個以現行現行這個選委會地方選委會"},{"start":290.595,"end":304.081,"text":"怎么样去去针对这个条文来去做来去查核怎么样去核对用什么方式是用书面的去通知还是怎么样"},{"start":306.109,"end":322.402,"text":"我們這個查對是由兩個機關分別就不同的項目來進行查對一個就是當地的這個戶政機關另外一個就是我們的選委會"},{"start":323.979,"end":334.492,"text":"那戶政機關跟選委會他們查對的根據都是這個連署人名冊正本在選舉機關副本我們會給一份給這個戶政事務所"},{"start":339.418,"end":367.408,"text":"那戶政事務所就是用戶政的系統他們去做查對他查對結果之後不管是發現比如說死亡連署有這種情形的話他都會把這個結果完整的來送還給我們的選務單位選務單位彙整之後才會送到中央選舉委員會來進行最後的審查以現在的相關的這些"},{"start":368.444,"end":388.718,"text":"公職人員選舉罷免法的規定 副政機關有辦法完全的查對嗎副政機關沒有問題 這都是用電腦去查的好 這個以前可以啊 現在恐怕好 我們看這個公職人員選舉罷免法第77條規定"},{"start":391.478,"end":418.592,"text":"現役軍人服替待役之現役役男或公務人員不得為罷免案提議人而這個公務人員的定義是採最廣的是公務人員服務法以前的戶籍資料是有這個職業欄現在的戶籍資料已經很久很久已經刪除了職業欄"},{"start":420.054,"end":424.464,"text":"所以從戶籍資料裡面是無法查對無法查對"},{"start":430.705,"end":456.903,"text":"連那個公務員都沒有了現在都沒有了現在我們並不是叫戶政事務所根據戶籍資料去查因為戶籍資料現在的內容它是有一些變更所以有關於現役軍人的部分是向國防部去查有嗎有有關於替代役的部分向內政部去查公務人員的部分向人總去查所以向各機關有嗎有有好人總夠不夠"},{"start":460.494,"end":483.699,"text":"人總夠不夠人總不是人總指向人總夠不夠還有前續部前續部夠不夠人總跟前續部大概大概夠了吧不夠不夠公務員服務法是很廣的包括公營事業的嗯包括公營事業的非純公"},{"start":484.218,"end":491.181,"text":"非純勞工的所以這個部分這個人種也有這個資料人種也有這個資料沒有沒有他沒有沒有這個資料我們再確認一下確認一下好謝謝鄭天才委員的諮詢下一位我們請鍾嘉斌委員諮詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":981,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時8分）主席，各位委員。有請主委。"],["主席：李主委有請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委辛苦了。我們看到今天中選會的報告裡面特別提到公職人員罷免案電子連署系統整備情形，特別提到公職人員罷免案電子連署系統107年6月15號建置完成，這裡面也特別提到：本會將視全國性公民投票電子連署系統實際使用情形，評估公職人員選罷法罷免案電子連署系統上線事宜。所以這個部分預估什麼時候會開始呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們從去年下半年以來，就積極的進行這個系統的維護、測試，希望它一上線之後是零缺點的，因為罷免的事情也相當的敏感，出不得任何的差錯，所以到目前為止，我們各項測試的工作都進行得相當順利，不過這個時候剛好就是一個罷免潮，所有的規則都是按照既定的程序在走，這個時候我們就沒有考慮是不是要把它上線，我想等到這一波過了之後，我們會審慎律定上線的時間。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，因為這段時間選罷法也有修正，有沒有因為選罷法的修正，這個系統要做因應調整的，有沒有？"],["李主任委員進勇：都有跟著。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。我請教一下。公職人選舉罷免法第七十六條這次有修正嗎？近期有修正嗎？就是針對第三項：第一項提議人名冊，應依規定格式逐欄詳實填寫，填具提議人國民身分證統一編號及戶籍地址分村（里）裝訂成冊；提議人填具時，應附本人之國民身分證正反面影本。這樣一個修正條文，而這個電子系統有沒有需要跟著去做調整？"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有影響，因為我們的連署系統是必須要用自然人憑證，那自然人憑證就可以取代身分證。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那所以他不用檢附國民身分證影印本？"],["李主任委員進勇：用電子連署的是不用。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：在哪裡有規定電子連署就不用？法律條文沒有規定喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：因為電子連署本身就是用自然人憑證。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為這個是新的修正，請中選會再跟內政部協調，這個法是內政部主責的，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為寫得很明確「應附本人之國民身分證正反面影本」條文寫得這麼明確，所以這部分再跟內政部協調，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會再做確認。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，再跟內政部協調，因為這法是內政部主責的，執行是你們，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：然後，公職人選舉罷免法第七十九條規定「選委會收到罷免案提議後，應於二十五日內，查對提議人名冊，有下列情事之一者，應予刪除」；然後第一款規定「提議人不合第七十六條第一項規定」；此外，還有第二款「提議人有第七十七條第一項之身分。」當然這一條全部共列了六款。請問一下，地方選委會怎麼樣根據現行法的這個條文去查核，要怎麼樣去核對？用什麼方式？是用書面去通知還是怎麼樣？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們是由兩個機關分別就不同的項目來進行查對，一個就是當地的戶政機關，另外一個就是我們的選委會，那戶政機關跟選委會他們查對的根據都是連署人名冊，正本在選舉機關，我們會給戶政事務所一份副本，那戶政事務所就是用戶政的系統去做查對，它查對之後如果發現有死亡連署這種情形的話，都會把這個結果完整的送給我們的選務單位，選務單位在彙整之後才會送到中央選舉委員會來進行最後的審查。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：以現在這些公職人員選舉罷免法的相關規定，戶政機關有辦法完全的查對嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：戶政機關沒有問題，這都是用電腦去查的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，以前可以，現在恐怕……好，公職人員選舉罷免法第七十七條規定：「現役軍人、服替代役之現役役男或公務人員，不得為罷免案提議人。」而這個公務人員的定義是採最廣的，就是公務員服務法所規定的公務員。以前的戶籍資料是有職業欄，現在的戶籍資料已經刪除職業欄了，所以從戶籍資料裡面無法查對，連公務人員現在都沒有了！"],["李主任委員進勇：對，我們並不是叫戶政事務所根據戶籍資料去查，因為戶籍資料現在的內容有一些變更，所以有關於現役軍人的部分是向國防部去查。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：有，有關於替代役的部分是向內政部去查，公務人員的部分是向人總去查，所以是分別向各機關查。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：有。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，人總夠不夠？"],["李主任委員進勇：人手？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，只向人總查夠不夠？"],["李主任委員進勇：還有銓敘部。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：向銓敘部查夠不夠？"],["李主任委員進勇：向人總跟銓敘部查就大概夠了吧。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不夠。"],["李主任委員進勇：不夠嗎？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：公務員服務法所規定的公務員範圍是很廣的，包括公營事業非純勞工的人員，所以這個部分請中選會……"],["李主任委員進勇：人總也有這個資料。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：沒有，人總沒有這個資料。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們再確認一下。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，確認一下。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。","下一位我們請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","高金素梅","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}