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院長辛苦了 部長好院長我們先來看到這張圖"},{"start":24.37,"end":43.845,"text":"這張圖是我們桃園復興區的雪屋鬧道路因為山崩導致道路中斷的現場照復興區它屬於偏遠地區雨勢一大或是颱風一來的時候道路中斷是常態目前涉及在當地的大約有需要定期洗腎的病患大約有60人而且還有許多場依賴"},{"start":45.026,"end":51.821,"text":"依賴長期慢性病處方的居民那如果在需要取得藥物的時候道路又中斷的時候民眾可以怎麼辦請問院長 部長"},{"start":56.943,"end":76.976,"text":"道路中斷的時候在我國偏遠地區可能要用空中運送的方式沒錯就是無人機本席今天要和院長討論無人機的議題那我們再接著看這是近期台北醫學大學新國民醫院與桃園市政府衛生局合作在復興區設立的洗腎中心對地方的醫療資源"},{"start":78.918,"end":102.837,"text":"進步的提升確實是一大步那現在居住在山區的病患呢終於能夠就近來接受血液透析治療本席考院長一個問題您知道洗身一次大概需要用上多少生理食鹽水嗎不好意思洗身一次需要用上多少生理食鹽水大概要兩千CC"},{"start":103.783,"end":123.203,"text":"洗身一次至少就要用上一千五百CC部長您說兩千CC今天如果道路中斷的話連那麼基本的醫療物資都沒有辦法運送基層再怎麼努力也是徒勞所以院長我們看到本期要向您反映的是缺藥的風險它不只存在我們桃園復興區"},{"start":124.364,"end":148.402,"text":"那它也可能會發生在我國的偏鄉嘛那尤其在交通中斷還有天災的時候那這種情況下剛剛院長有提到就是無人機來做運送嘛那這也是攸關病患生命安全的大事院長您認為無人機它是否在我國它可以來運用來幫助偏鄉呢在緊急還有特殊的情況下我們也希望發展無人機能夠"},{"start":149.304,"end":168.331,"text":"真正最大的用途平常就是在這個救災救難的時候它可以發揮人力所不能到達的地方去那本席在這邊就是請問就是我們部長您的態度呢我想在道路壯斷我們台灣從921以後其實也發生過幾次"},{"start":169.301,"end":183.18,"text":"不管是土石流 各個地方 南投 桃園其實那個時候 藥物真的都是相當的缺乏有必要的時候 我想吳仁基是應該可以解決問題有必要的時候 因為本席也有和育然所表示"},{"start":184.241,"end":208.579,"text":"在進行無人機送藥的試驗那醫院所他們有說他們已經向衛福部反映相關的問題可是目前都卡在制度面還有法規那衛福部籌備偏鄉常態系的無人機送藥模式它需要鬆綁現行藥師法的規定藥物必須由藥師來親自交給民眾當然我們也是尊重藥師他的專業還有他的職責那請問院長部長我們什麼時候可以來檢討這個法規呢並且來做修法的作業"},{"start":214.281,"end":240.317,"text":"好 最近我們舉辦了黑客鬆的一個就是等於是AI啦 資訊的比賽那這個無人機送藥這個計畫是得到第一名所以我們非常重視這樣的一個我猜它的準確度要到哪裡真的是會送到哪裡本身要和您討論的是目前就是卡在衛福部我們何時可以來做鬆綁要實法的問題要親自調劑"},{"start":244.417,"end":255.083,"text":"那這個部分有兩個部分可以來討論第一個就是說在緊急的狀況的時候其實是可以有彈性第二個其實配合視訊"},{"start":257.286,"end":280.146,"text":"這個法例我們來處理指導那邊的人怎麼用藥這樣也相對的是有調劑那這個部分我想我們必須跟藥界方面來那不只是調劑那還有醫療資源的部分那今天就是因為還卡在食藥署以及衛福部所以我們必須要來重新檢討法規"},{"start":281.107,"end":287.634,"text":"我們一邊發展 因為現在已經有一個計畫在做了這個計畫確實已經在做了可是需要衛福部來做跨部會的整合北西鄉請教部長衛福部什麼時候可以來做協調那這個法規何時可以來做鬆綁"},{"start":300.489,"end":319.143,"text":"我們在這個事辦計畫裡面其中有一個關鍵當然就是要去溝通這個藥師法裡面的因為無人機送藥它今天不只光靠技術就可以完成那不只藥要送的出去還要送的安全因為藥品它可能需要冷藏它也要避免日曬我們也要追蹤它的"},{"start":319.844,"end":339.502,"text":"他的濕度那這些技術的標準還有醫藥品他的品項的配套品質都我們也必須要納入考量那這部分因為涉及到醫藥專業必須要有衛福部的專業介介入啊有沒問題我們就成立了殺我們現在的計畫就是無人機殺送藥沙盒計畫計畫那就是一種常識的計畫那他騙騙"},{"start":342.645,"end":366.529,"text":"面臨到兩個關鍵問題第一個 航線的問題你也不能去影響到本來的一些航線航線的部分沒問題本席可以和我們交通部 應援所來做溝通可是目前就是因為衛福部還沒有鬆綁所以沒有辦法來進行實際後續的我們趕快來溝通好了趕快來溝通那部長您可不可以在三個月內提出完整的事辦報告呢"},{"start":366.809,"end":388.192,"text":"好沒問題那法規的修訂還有進度草案的方向跨部會的去做一些溝通還有軍方還有交通部跨部會要做一些溝通如果需要我們會院裡面來協助是喔謝謝院長那部長這邊本席也要求喔那藥品的冷鏈還有運送的品質規範那實際的試辦成果還有成效評估三個月內有沒有辦法提供"},{"start":389.727,"end":403.185,"text":"應該可以 初步的報告初步的報告因為他有一定計畫的期程但是三個月我想應該就要呈現報告那希望 組長請在三個月內提供給本市報告那院長我們接下來看"},{"start":404.306,"end":431,"text":"就是桃園市政府正式宣布的重大建設在巴德消理公園將設立桃園市立醫院總院採BOT的方式興建投資金額高達90億未來設置499床的急性一般病床還有150床專科與特殊的病床提供24小時的兒科急診還有長照婦幼醫療服務預計2033年底營運他會以區域醫院還有準醫學中心的高標格來做興建"},{"start":432.981,"end":433.141,"text":"醫護人力"},{"start":463.221,"end":482.45,"text":"畢業的學生經過合理的考試能夠儘速進入到職場那上個月十五 上個月十五陳大已經 原本他已經關閉四十多床的的病床 那預計五月 因為醫師離職潮他五月又關了三十床 院長你有沒有掌握到呢現在應該畢業生快要出來 這一段時間"},{"start":483.592,"end":492.991,"text":"畢業生出來之後是不是可以稍稍的紓解這樣的壓力因為院長您提到畢業生嘛那您知道在我國有多少有護理證照的人"},{"start":495.683,"end":516.573,"text":"您從上面大概有19萬人有19萬人沒錯可是我有證照的有30多人那實際的落差是10萬人那部長您也提到就是畢業生新鮮人那心理證照的護理師他實際就業率就只有六成有就是說四成的護理師他們不願意進到醫院不願意進到醫院的職場來工作您認為是為什麼這個我想我們"},{"start":517.903,"end":545.897,"text":"不管是在工作的環境跟待遇還有護理人員真的面臨很大的第一線的照顧的壓力這個我想我們長期在醫療上完全的體認也感謝委員的關心部長讓您知道新鮮人的離職高峰潮是在什麼時候嗎也通過了12項的一個策略而且具體在落實跟委員報告一下今年其實是有成效的我們今年的事業比去年的事業其實還是增加了3000多位護理師"},{"start":547.317,"end":557.54,"text":"當然朝著我們想要多一點的護理師還要繼續努力您提到增加了3000多位 那有多少位護理師離職呢我們的離職率大概有11到12"},{"start":564.691,"end":579.446,"text":"但是我們到七月的時候畢業的畢業生還是會就職所以整體而言是 部長 部長院長光從今年一月到三月離職的人數就高達九百多位喔那其實我們一直面臨到畢業以後就會補回來"},{"start":581.301,"end":605.584,"text":"本席剛剛也提到只有六成的就業率那離職的高峰潮也在他們進到醫院後的一個月到三個月之後他們又離開了醫院所以請部長 院長要正視這個問題所以我們希望考用合一讓他畢業之後能夠多一點的比例進到職場裡面來那護理師每七年這是一個離職的高峰我們要從他的婚姻家庭來協助他讓他能夠留在職場上"},{"start":606.924,"end":620.507,"text":"我們現在有多元化的方式來留任一定會有成效是 那本席再請教 請教部長一個問題喔那目前小夜班的獎勵制度是四百元大夜班是六百元 這個是好 謝謝邱鶴華委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 衛福部長的對詢 謝謝"},{"start":635.782,"end":639.229,"text":"報告院會社會福利及衛生 報告院會登記"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":696,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（17時33分）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長及衛福部邱部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、衛福部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：院長好，院長辛苦了；部長好。院長，我們先來看到這張圖，這張圖是我們桃園復興區的雪霧鬧道路，因為山崩導致道路中斷的現場照，復興區處於偏遠地區，雨勢一大或是颱風一來的時候，道路中斷是常態，目前設籍在當地需要定期洗腎的病患大約有六十人，而且還有許多依賴長期慢性病處方的居民，如果在需要取得藥物，道路又中斷的時候，民眾可以怎麼辦？請問院長、部長？"],["卓院長榮泰：道路中斷的時候？"],["邱委員若華：道路中斷的時候，在我國偏遠地區。"],["卓院長榮泰：可能要用空中運送的方式。"],["邱委員若華：沒錯，就是無人機，本席今天要和院長討論無人機的議題。我們再接著看，這是近期臺北醫學大學新國民醫院與桃園市政府衛生局合作在復興區設立的洗腎中心，對地方醫療資源的進步與提升確實是一大步，現在居住在山區的病患，終於能夠就近來接受血液透析治療。本席考院長一個問題，您知道洗腎一次大概需要用上多少生理食鹽水嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：抱歉，這個我不清楚，部長應該知道。"],["邱部長泰源：不好意思……"],["卓院長榮泰：洗腎一次要用多少生理食鹽水？"],["邱委員若華：洗腎一次需要用上多少生理食鹽水？"],["邱部長泰源：大概要2,000cc。"],["邱委員若華：洗腎一次至少就要用1,500cc，部長您說2,000cc。今天如果道路中斷的話，連那麼基本的醫療物資都沒有辦法運送，基層再怎麼努力也是徒勞。","院長，本席要向您反映的是，缺藥風險不只存在於我們桃園復興區，也可能會發生在我國的偏鄉，尤其在交通中斷還有天災的時候，在這種情況下，剛剛院長提到可以用無人機來運送，這也是攸關病患生命安全的大事。院長，您是否認為無人機在我國可以運用於幫助偏鄉呢？在緊急、特殊的情況下。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們很希望發展無人機，平常無人機真正最大的用途就是在救災救難的時候，它可以發揮人力所不能到達的地方去。"],["邱委員若華：本席在這邊請問部長，您的態度呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我想在道路中斷……臺灣從921以後，其實也發生過幾次，不管是土石流等等，各個地方像是南投、桃園，其實那時藥物真的都是相當缺乏……"],["邱委員若華：是，因為本席過去有……"],["邱部長泰源：有必要的時候，我想無人機應該是可以解決問題。"],["邱委員若華：必要的時候。因為本席也有和運研所討論，他們表示有在進行無人機送藥的試驗，運研所也說他們已經向衛福部反映相關的問題，可是目前都卡在制度面還有法規。衛福部籌備偏鄉常態性的無人機送藥模式，需要鬆綁現行藥事法的規定，藥物必須由藥師親自交給民眾，當然我們也尊重藥師的專業還有職責。請問院長、部長，我們什麼時候可以來檢討這個法規，並且來做修法的作業？"],["邱部長泰源：好，最近我們舉辦了一個黑客松的AI資訊比賽，這個無人機送藥的計畫是得到第一名。"],["邱委員若華：是。"],["邱部長泰源：所以我們非常重視這樣的計畫，而且它的準確度是要到哪裡真的就會送到哪裡，怎麼樣去把它……"],["邱委員若華：本席要和您討論的是，目前就是卡在衛福部，何時可以鬆綁？"],["邱部長泰源：藥事法的問題，藥師要親自調劑，這有兩個部分可以討論，第一個就是在緊急狀況時，其實是可以有彈性；第二個是可以配合視訊，這個法律我們來處理……"],["邱委員若華：本席剛剛有提到，比如說像洗腎……"],["邱部長泰源：藥師要指導那邊的人怎麼用藥，這樣也相對是在調劑，這個部分我們必須跟藥師界來討論……"],["邱委員若華：不只是調劑，還有醫療資源的部分呢？今天就是因為還卡在食藥署以及衛福部，所以我們必須要重新檢討法規。"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個沒有問題，我們一邊發展……因為現在已經有一個計畫在做了，試辦計畫當中需要克服相關法令限制。"],["邱委員若華：這個計畫確實已經在做了，可是需要衛福部來做跨部會的整合。"],["邱部長泰源：沒問題。"],["邱委員若華：本席想請教部長，衛福部什麼時候可以來做協調？這個法規何時可以鬆綁？"],["邱部長泰源：在這個試辦計畫裡面，其中有一個關鍵，當然就是要去溝通藥事法裡面的限制。"],["邱委員若華：因為今天無人機送藥不只光靠技術就可以完成，藥不只要送的出去還要送的安全，藥品可能需要冷藏，也要避免日曬，我們也要追蹤它的溼度，這些技術的標準還有醫藥品的品項配套、品質都也都必須要納入考量，這部分因為涉及到醫藥專業，必須要有衛福部的專業介入。"],["邱部長泰源：沒問題，我們現在的計畫就是無人機送藥沙盒計畫，就是一種嘗試的計畫，但也面臨到兩個關鍵問題，第一個是航線的問題，它不能影響本來的一些航線。第二個就是藥事法的問題。"],["邱委員若華：航線的部分沒問題，本席可以和交通部運研所來做溝通，可是目前就是因為衛福部還沒有鬆綁，所以沒有辦法實際進行後續的部分。"],["邱部長泰源：我們趕快來溝通好了。"],["邱委員若華：趕快來溝通，那部長您可不可以在三個月內提出完整的試辦報告呢？"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。"],["邱委員若華：包括法規的修訂還有進度草案……"],["卓院長榮泰：部長可能還要做一些跨部會的溝通，跟軍方還有交通部做跨部會的討論，如果有需要，我們會從院裡面來協助。"],["邱委員若華：是，謝謝院長。部長，本席也要求藥品冷鏈還有運送品質規範以及實際試辦成果的成效評估，三個月內有沒有辦法提供？"],["邱部長泰源：好，初步的報告應該可以。"],["邱委員若華：初步的報告？"],["邱部長泰源：這應該有一定的計畫與期程，但我想三個月可以呈現在報告上。"],["邱委員若華：部長，請在三個月內提供報告給本席。"],["邱部長泰源：沒問題。"],["邱委員若華：院長，我們接下來看。桃園市政府在今年2月12日正式宣布了一項重大建設，也就是在八德霄裡公園將設立桃園市立醫院總院，採BOT方式興建，投資金額高達90億。未來將設置499床急性與一般病床，還有150床的專科與特殊病床，並提供24小時的兒科急診及長照婦幼醫療服務，預計2033年底營運，會以區域醫院及準醫學中心的高標格來興建。院長，這是一項非常重要的醫療建設計畫，對我們桃園市民來說是一大福音。我們現在擔心的是：未來是否有足夠並穩定的醫護人力呢？我說的是醫院，請部長說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：醫護人力？"],["邱委員若華：對，醫護人力。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在、尤其是護理師人力短缺，對此，大家都感到非常急迫。對於醫師跟護理師，我們現在希望能以考用合一的方式，使未來畢業的學生在經過合理考試後，能儘速進入職場。"],["邱委員若華：上個月15日，成大醫院已經關閉了四十多床的病床，預計5月……因為醫師離職潮之故，所以5月又要再關掉30床。院長，您有沒有掌握到呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在畢業生快出來了，經過這一段時間，在畢業生出來之後，是不是可以稍稍紓解這樣的壓力？請衛福部趕快規劃。"],["邱委員若華：院長提到畢業生，您知道在我國有多少有護理證照的人？"],["卓院長榮泰：臨床上大概有十九萬人左右。"],["邱委員若華：是有十九萬人沒錯，可是有證照的有三十多萬人，實際落差是十萬人。部長，您提到畢業生和新鮮人，但新領證照的護理師實際就業率只有六成，也就是說有四成的護理師不願意進到醫院職場來工作，您認為是為什麼？"],["邱部長泰源：我想不管是在工作環境跟待遇，護理人員真的面臨很大的、第一線的照顧壓力，我們長期在醫療體系上完全體認到這點，也感謝委員的關心……"],["邱委員若華：部長，您知道新鮮人的離職高峰潮是在什麼時候？"],["邱部長泰源：行政院也通過了十二項策略，也在具體落實中。跟委員報告一下，今年其實是有成效的，今年4月跟去年4月比，其實還增加了三千多位護理師，當然，就我們想要多一點護理師的方向來說，還要繼續努力。這三千多位……"],["邱委員若華：您提到增加了三千多位，請問有多少位護理師離職呢？"],["邱部長泰源：離職率大概是11%到12%，但是到7月時，畢業的畢業生還是會就職，所以整體而言……"],["邱委員若華：部長、院長，光是今年1月到3月，離職人數就高達九百多位！"],["邱部長泰源：其實在畢業生畢業後就會補回來。"],["邱委員若華：本席剛剛也提到，只有六成的就業率，而離職的高峰潮則在他們進到醫院後的一到三個月內，他們又離開了醫院，所以請部長、院長要正視這個問題！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們希望考用合一，讓其在畢業之後能有多一點的比例進到職場裡。護理師每七年就有一個離職高峰，因此，我們要從婚姻、家庭來協助，使其能留在職場上。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝院長。"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在有多元化的方式來留任，一定會有成效。"],["邱委員若華：本席再請教部長一個問題，目前小夜班的獎勵制度是400元，大夜班是600元，這已經到頂了嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：這已經發下去了。"],["邱委員若華：已經發下去了？"],["邱部長泰源：夜班已經發下去了，而且追溯到1月1日。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱若華委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、衛福部部長備詢。","報告院會，登記第十六位蘇巧慧委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}