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謝謝局長 邀請我們交通部的陳次長好 陳正次委員好 次長好 次長 是這個孔蓋要下地要原則下地 例外才不下地 我給你看幾個地方第一個 這個是惡名昭彰"},{"start":31.42,"end":51.907,"text":"這個在台中市100公尺有20幾個孔蓋這個在台南的仁德20公尺有將近10個孔蓋這些都是落後的象徵哪一個國家的馬路像台灣這樣好像在打國票一樣 一塊一塊"},{"start":54.045,"end":74.551,"text":"而且你孔蓋啊 因為它分屬很多單位維護狀況都不一樣雖然我們交通部有訂那個防滑系數但是啊 通常馬路鋪好以後啊防滑系數還有路評啊 都在驗收那一天合格而已啦車開久了就沒賣了啦"},{"start":79.46,"end":96.129,"text":"如果不是出現高低差不平啦 或者孔蓋沒有蓋緊啦要不然喔 就是有防滑係數不足來 我們再看一下會不會發生車禍鎮壁壞成車了啦機車歧視啦有沒有 嚇到民意罵罵了 有沒有看到這裡喔 甚至出過人命啦這位女歧視很不幸啦壓過孔蓋又滑倒啦摔死啦"},{"start":107.813,"end":131.55,"text":"所以家屬 很多用路人都很清楚啦有孔蓋的地方啊 就好像地雷啦如果你沒地方傘 那你要把它騎過去你就要小心啦 很可能會被滑倒啊那汽車也差不多啦 因為如果不平的話你的車這樣壓過去 高高低低這樣彈跳啊車也快壞啦 是不是這樣"},{"start":134.673,"end":156.509,"text":"所以本期我在上一屆很可惜因為屆期不連續我要修公路法我們希望孔蓋要原則下地例外才不下地台灣的孔蓋有多可怕我再給你看一個表社長這個我記得我也跟你討論過台電還有將近70萬個孔蓋沒有下地台水有將近50萬個孔蓋"},{"start":163.328,"end":188.073,"text":"中油還有1500個左右中華電信最可怕 有144萬個所以台灣目前的孔蓋光這四大單位台電 台水 中油 中華電信就有超過260萬個孔蓋我還沒有算瓦斯 我也不算電子電視台"},{"start":190.267,"end":197.689,"text":"第四台也會走下面 還有地方上的一些孔蓋 我還沒有計算所以我為什麼要修公路法第一個 台灣的公路大街小巷還有這麼多的孔蓋兩三百萬個 這個實在是很危險 也是很落後的象徵"},{"start":214.144,"end":243.285,"text":"所以啊我修的法其實也很有彈性第一個原則下地第二個如果你孔蓋的管理單位你覺得你那個地方你不適合或不能下地那你可以列出來彈性給他們所以這個是彼此都有一個彈性他可以列出他無法下地的地方就是說這個範圍他沒有辦法下地這個他可以定"},{"start":244.38,"end":266.985,"text":"第三啊我也沒有設完成期限說你多久以內幾百萬個孔蓋要全部下地那第三點很重要我有變法則如果你那個地方孔蓋已經出問題那我請你下地如果你沒有下地那我們有一些法則我再請教次長你現在如果"},{"start":268.57,"end":284.418,"text":"尤其是汽車歧視最危險你壓過孔蓋如果你摔倒你現在是沒有錢賠你沒有法源依據孔蓋使用單位從來沒有認輸全部都要去範圍隔受害人要去法院提告因為我們的沒有母法沒有法則那孔蓋使用單位沒有一件賠給受害者都叫人去收割"},{"start":298.383,"end":324.307,"text":"都說你騎車不適宜啦你自己會摔倒啦 有的沒的啦所以我其實在上一屆立委任命我就開始修啦那我也辦過工電會我也跟很多的使用單位 事業單位有孔蓋的也談過 也跟你交通部談過經濟部所管的啦 台水啦 台電啦大家都同意啦"},{"start":325.37,"end":337.924,"text":"交通部有同意啦 台電 台水 中油都同意啦交通部經濟保管的事 都同意啦中油 台電 台水啦交通部那時候有同意你交通部的態度有改變嗎"},{"start":343.066,"end":370.021,"text":"孔蓋下你來 你回答我想跟委員報告我想有關委員特別提案原則下地啦 例外不下地啦這樣的一個修法剛才在口頭的報告裡頭大概也都有說明原則上我們是尊重對不對 你態度有沒有改變嗎目前沒有改變沒有改變嘛 所以交通部也同意那現在就有一個單位反對啦那中華電信啦最後一列的單位是中華電信他孔蓋最多"},{"start":372.488,"end":398.93,"text":"然後每次要碰這個法他就會去遊說國民黨的立委出來反對就是你們 你們的中華電信最惡劣的事業單位它的空間有170幾萬我剛剛統計有144萬個 那不要再看一下借我們資產看一下260萬個沒有下地 這四大單位其中啊 中華電信就有140幾萬個了"},{"start":402.162,"end":422.251,"text":"中華電信每次都用盡辦法要來阻擋這樣的一個修法方向所以市長我當時就跟各大單位也跟你們交通部溝通過嘛原則下地如果你例外你管理使用單位覺得你們無法下地你可以訂換回你可以訂出來"},{"start":423.973,"end":445.668,"text":"對不對 第二個 我也沒有完成期限 說你多久要完成這已經是很彈性的一個做法第三 當然你有罰則嘛 這是保護人民最卑微的一個請求嘛人家經過要補到 如果造勢原因是你恐幹的問題現在是不賠 因為他沒有法源根據啊 你知道嗎"},{"start":448.652,"end":477.68,"text":"所以如果就算你造勢原因是因為孔蓋路不平孔蓋防滑係數不足可憐的受害者也要去提告啦 你要去告國賠啦因為啊 法律不規定喔 這要佩戚啊我們現在比較重啦 你使用單位 如果我已經叫你我已經通知你那個地方要下地 或者要改善啊你如果沒有 我現在定一個法則這是最基本的保護用路人"},{"start":480.19,"end":484.668,"text":"這是不是我們應該要做的對不對你知道他們不會支持我的消防嗎"},{"start":486.391,"end":515.43,"text":"在進入主條討論的時候來表達支持的態度是好謝謝市長我再跟市長提醒經濟部管的單位都同意啦經濟部也同意經濟部管的事業單位也都同意就只有你交通部我跟委員報告中華電信最惡劣中華電信我們只是最大股東啦那個主管機關NCC啦但是我們恐慨最多我們會來轉達請他們來重視這個最反對最惡劣每次要修法出來遊說的那今天遊說國民黨的立委出來反對"},{"start":516.414,"end":516.434,"text":"我們會來轉達"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":622,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（11時40分）本席邀請交通部的陳次長。"],["主席：好，陳政次。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：次長好。次長，這個孔蓋要下地，要原則下地，例外才不下地，我給你看幾個地方，第一個，這個是惡名昭彰，在臺中市才100公尺就有二十幾個孔蓋，在臺南仁德才20公尺有將近10個孔蓋，這些都是落後的象徵，哪一個國家的馬路像臺灣這樣？就好像在貼膏藥一樣，都一塊、一塊，而且因為孔蓋分屬很多單位，維護狀況都不一樣，雖然交通部有訂防滑係數，但是通常在馬路鋪好以後，防滑係數還有路平都只有在驗收那一天合格而已，很多車子開過去，時間一久就不平了，不是出現高低差、不平或者孔蓋沒有蓋緊，要不然就是防滑係數不足。來，我們再看一下，這樣會不會發生車禍？常常發生車禍，機車騎士摔得一塌糊塗，有沒有看到？這裡甚至出過人命，這位女騎士很不幸，她騎車壓過孔蓋一滑倒就摔死了，所以很多用路人都很清楚，有孔蓋的地方就好像地雷，如果你沒地方閃而一定要騎過去，你就要非常小心，因為很可能會滑倒。那汽車也差不多，因為如果不平的話，你的車壓過去，高高低低這樣彈跳，車子也會很快壞掉，是不是這樣？","我在上一屆要修公路法，但是很可惜，因為屆期不連續，我們希望孔蓋要原則下地、例外才不下地。臺灣的孔蓋有多可怕？我再給你看一個表，次長，我記得我也跟你討論過，台電還有將近70萬個孔蓋沒有下地，台水有將近50萬個孔蓋，中油還有1,500個左右，中華電信最可怕，有144萬個。所以臺灣目前的孔蓋光是台電、台水、中油、中華電信這四大單位就有超過260萬個孔蓋，我還沒有算瓦斯，我也沒有算地方的第四臺，第四臺的管線也會走下面，還有地方上的一些孔蓋，我還沒有計算。我為什麼要修公路法？第一個，在臺灣的公路還有大街小巷有這麼多的孔蓋，多達二、三百萬個，這實在是很危險，也是很落後的象徵。其實我修的法也很有彈性，第一個，原則下地；第二個，如果孔蓋的管理單位覺得在那個地方不適合或不能下地，那你可以列出來，給他們彈性，所以彼此都有一個彈性，他可以列出無法下地的地方，就是在這個範圍沒有辦法下地，這個他可以訂；第三，我也沒有設完成期限，要求在多久以內幾百萬個孔蓋要全部下地，但是第三點很重要，就是我有定罰則，因為你那個地方的孔蓋已經出問題，所以我請你下地，如果你沒有下地，那我們有一些罰則。次長，尤其是機車騎士最危險，如果壓過孔蓋而摔倒，現在沒有錢賠，沒有法源依據，孔蓋使用單位從來沒有認輸，全部都是請他們去法院提告，受害人要去法院提告，因為母法沒有罰則，孔蓋使用單位沒有一件是賠給受害者，都叫人去提告，都說你騎車不小心、你自己摔倒等等有的沒的。所以其實在上一屆立委任內，我就開始修了，我也辦過公聽會，也跟很多的使用單位、有孔蓋的事業單位談過，也跟你們交通部談過。經濟部所管的台水、台電大概都同意，交通部也同意，台電、台水、中油都同意，經濟部管的事業單位都同意，中油、台電、台水，交通部那時候也同意，有關孔蓋下地，現在交通部態度有改變嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，我想有關委員特別提案的……"],["林委員俊憲：原則下地，例外不下地。"],["陳次長彥伯：這樣的修法，剛才在口頭報告大概也都有說明了，原則上我們是尊重。"],["林委員俊憲：你態度有沒有改變嘛？"],["陳次長彥伯：目前沒有改變。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有改變，所以交通部也同意，現在就有一個單位反對，就是中華電信，最惡劣的單位就是中華電信，它孔蓋最多，每次要碰這個法，它就會去遊說國民黨的立委出來反對，就是你們的中華電信，最惡劣的事業單位，它的孔蓋有一百四十幾萬，我剛剛統計有144萬個。這個表再看一下，請次長看一下，260萬個沒有下地，這是四大單位的部分，其中中華電信就有一百四十幾萬個，中華電信每次都用盡辦法要阻擋這樣的修法方向。次長，我當時就跟各大單位也跟你們交通部溝通過，原則下地，如果例外，孔蓋管理使用單位覺得無法下地，你可以訂出範圍，對不對？第二個，我也沒有設完成期限，說你多久要完成，這已經是很有彈性的作法。第三個，當然要有罰則，這是保護人民最卑微的請求，人家經過那邊跌倒，如果肇事原因是孔蓋的問題，現在是不賠耶！因為沒有法源根據啊，你聽懂了嗎？所以就算肇事原因是因為孔蓋、路不平，孔蓋防滑係數不足，可憐的受害者也要去提告，告國賠，因為法律沒有規定這個部分要賠錢，那我們現在就來訂定，如果已經通知使用單位那個地方要下地或者要改善，如果沒有，我現在訂一個罰則，這是最基本的保護用路人，這是不是我們應該要做的，對不對？交通部會支持我的修法嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我們會在進入逐條討論的時候表達支持的態度。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝次長。我再跟次長提醒，經濟部管的單位都同意，經濟部也同意，經濟部管的事業單位都同意，就只有你交通部，就是中華電信最惡劣。"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，中華電信我們只是最大股東，主管機關是NCC，但是我們會轉達，請他們重視這個部分。"],["林委員俊憲：孔蓋最多的就是中華電信，最反對、最惡劣，每次要修法就出來遊說，今天就遊說國民黨立委出來反對。"],["陳次長彥伯：我們會來轉達。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝次長。"],["陳次長彥伯：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員。","現在請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-11","speakers":["林國成","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳素月","蔡其昌","何欣純","林俊憲","張啓楷","廖先翔","李昆澤","游顥","黃健豪","陳雪生","魯明哲","徐富癸","邱若華","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員吳宗憲等17人、(二)委員賴士葆等28人、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等26人分別擬具「人\n工智慧基本法草案」及(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工智慧發展及管理條例草案」案；二、審查\n( 一) 委員林俊憲等23 人擬具「公路法第二十七條、第二十八條及第七十五條條文修正草案」、\n(二)委員陳冠廷等18人、(三)委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「公路法第三十二條條文修正草案」、\n(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「公路法第三十三條條文修正草案」、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團、(六)委\n員馬文君等19 人、( 七) 委員邱若華等17 人分別擬具「公路法第三十九條之一條文修正草案」、\n(八)委員何欣純等18人擬具「公路法第四十六條及第六十條之一條文修正草案」、(九)委員王義\n川等16人擬具「公路法第六十五條條文修正草案」及(十)委員林俊憲等21人擬具「公路法第七十\n二條條文修正草案」案；三、審查 ( 一 ) 委員林俊憲等 22 人擬具「停車場法第四條條文修正草\n案」、(二)委員廖先翔等17人擬具「停車場法第三十二條條文修正草案」及(三)台灣民眾黨黨團\n擬具「停車場法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。【本日會議僅針對開會事由二及三進行合併詢\n答】","agenda_id":"1144802_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}