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請邱主委總委好主委 你是對的人我身對的人身對的人 那個叫行政院那個官網啦有漢人跟其他人嘛 對不對你是哪裡人如果照行政院這個官網的分類因為你身對 你是哪邊的人"},{"start":43.363,"end":69.247,"text":"新竹市是漢人還是其他人當然是一般漢人你是漢人行政院把96.2的漢人都現在變成是其他人所以你說你是漢人那以後你就是其他人了是不是照這樣分類是不是其他人主委你現在陸委會主委這個很重要"},{"start":70.735,"end":96.092,"text":"結果民進黨政府現在一直在推動這個去中化 去安化你的工作會不會很難做啊委員 我們並沒有委員所說的那樣的事情現在兩個人看起來很多都停擺我看你很多業務都推動的還是有在持續的進行交流只不過我們在去統戰化 去政治化讓交流回歸到對等尊嚴 健康有序的環境來進行"},{"start":96.912,"end":116.521,"text":"都溝通啦然後多一些和平少一些對立要不然的話老實講再這樣下去陸委會不是只有預算凍結現在解凍陸委會搞不好應該都要拆掉沒有功能了沒有需要我們同仁現在還在履行兩岸條例跟港澳條例的相關業務我們陸委會同仁戰戰兢兢的那麼業務上其實也相當的繁重"},{"start":121.683,"end":134.509,"text":"主委我看你今天這個解凍報告提到說我們台灣現在有36萬6千個陸配家庭用大概4個人來算好了"},{"start":136.015,"end":163.15,"text":"大概有150萬陸配的這個家庭跟陸配有關係的才會報國盤對不對我看你的這個報告裡面講到說要協助陸配家庭深入去融入我國社會的生活等政策對不對要多努力我們希望多一些協助多一些照顧那最近啊老實講不只沒有協助我感覺最近啊去推民國94年之前也就是2004年"},{"start":168.774,"end":173.827,"text":"2004年3月1號之前要陸配回去找21年以前的大陸"},{"start":175.626,"end":205,"text":"他的除籍資料老實講是有強人手懶當然這段時間包括你也到我辦公室我們都有協調我大概有六次開了六次協調會你已經是我第四次執行這個問題了那我們現在看起來有些突破可是老實講照顧還是不夠的那我們先來講我們現在做了哪些事情可是有些地方我們進一步來解決好不好我先問你現在最新的一個解決方案就是很多陸配跟二代接到你們通知之後"},{"start":207.55,"end":235.141,"text":"很擔心會不會戶籍被取消或者甚至被驅逐出境變成人囚現在我們初步的一個突破是這樣子一方面我們先治標跟治本治標我們現在做的就是現在開始接受申請包括你可以本人到移民署也可以用郵件也可以用紙本然後接到之後是不是一個月內你們本身就要做好這個審查"},{"start":237.483,"end":254.95,"text":"跟委員報告有關於現在的這些專案在協處的那剛剛委員說因為年代久遠那如果他手邊沒有任何的證明文件我們移民署跟海基會都會提供讓他有所本"},{"start":255.45,"end":275.137,"text":"第二個他可能在放棄大陸原籍可能還有許多的自愛難行我們要感謝委員包括您還有你們辦公室團隊都積極的在協助那我們也協助你們辦公室所轉來的個案都得到充分的協助那我們要跟委員講"},{"start":276.537,"end":298.435,"text":"這個案子並不是在找陸培家庭的麻煩而是我們在疫情期間做了第一波清理然後回溯清理發現還是有人沒有一直到剛剛委員所說2004年3月1號之前那些放棄大陸園籍的很多都沒有放棄我們是也可以把問題蓋下來但是我們選擇面對問題勇於承擔而且找出解決問題的方法"},{"start":305.701,"end":323.177,"text":"讓我們的陸配家庭真的有機會不要受貶質疑他在台灣的生活是合法的在這個前提下才能安居樂業我們是朝這個目的來做當然有一些資深陸配家裡或是他二代這個我們要提供許多的協助"},{"start":324.718,"end":342.21,"text":"我們今天最重要是要解決問題啦政府存在的目的不是製造問題是解決問題所以我們共同努力嘛我們現在很清楚跟現在擔心的陸配跟二代我們今天很清楚跟他講他現在本來他們擔心是什麼你4月2號寄通知你要三個月內要他們完成初級嘛對不對"},{"start":343.13,"end":352.415,"text":"時間快到了喔你要跟我們聯繫就不用擔心有被觸及的問題所以現在跟陸委會跟移民署跟海基會聯繫上就沒有問題我們都會抓人跟他輔導來解決他的問題所以不會有六月底或者七月初被觸及這個問題我們都會全力協助所以你們只要去申請你們就會給他一個通知嘛對不對然後會有三個可能來來看一看有三種可能來"},{"start":372.845,"end":401.66,"text":"第一個你們同意讓他用用切結的方式來取代對不對這是第一種這是最理想的就是說你真正沒辦法回大陸去或者你資料已經找不到了你就同意他用切結這是最好的一個方式對不對第二種雖然沒辦法用用拒絕可是你會同意他閃年對不對另外最壞最後一種狀況你不同意終究不同意的話你還是至少會給他三個月內三個月的閃年時間是不是這樣"},{"start":403.547,"end":428.384,"text":"就是最右邊這一欄嘛最後面這一欄真的是就是自愛男性有特別的狀況我們也會專案來替他協助所以只要找到你們或者到我們辦公室我們把案子轉過去就可以爭取到時間有這三個解決的方案那當然治本還是要修法啦這是治標所以民眾黨會提出修法我們是希望在93年"},{"start":429.665,"end":431.548,"text":"大陸現在有四個省份啦現在山東、山西、安徽跟浙江他們都不發啦 這怎麼解決"},{"start":446.069,"end":461.078,"text":"跟委員報告您剛講這些拒絕提供我們陸配朋友回去放棄他的原籍證明拒絕給他除籍文件這個事都極少數那這些都是個案"},{"start":462.011,"end":481.123,"text":"那個案的部分我們就來協助溝通聯繫五個省份啦,大概不會少數啦,不過反正案子真的是個案,我們截至目前為止都蠻順利的就用專案去幫忙啦,好不好?抱歉抱歉,因為時間拖太久了,不好意思我用兩分鐘,主席兩分鐘你先請我好不好,我請那個中選會主委不好意思喔,謝謝因為這問題蠻嚴重,我請問一下"},{"start":491.975,"end":508.154,"text":"這次2024年總統大選的時候,有出現一個屏東縣中正國小146投開票手我們看一下這個畫面,這個你應該都有看過那個錄影帶他們就是在懷疑或者是在質疑說這個紙箱"},{"start":510.532,"end":531.552,"text":"所以他希望你怎麼折,你後來一定有折起來的地方,也有夾層嘛那他這個是拍到說折層的,有些那個選票掉出來嘛那我們來解決這個問題,好不好我們來解決這個問題,現在有人都提出來說你紙箱一定有折痕啊,那你能不能做一個底面是透明壓克力板的"},{"start":532.901,"end":550.946,"text":"是不是能夠解決問題這個選務的這個相關的設備器具 應用物品有這樣子的問題而引起社會的議論或者甚至於所謂的恐慌 我覺得很不值得就對了"},{"start":551.306,"end":569.344,"text":"所以我積極在進行研究怎麼樣能夠去除這樣子的一個疑慮當然委員所建議的這個我們也會列入考慮我們會積極的去研究如何能夠讓老百姓這個投票人他們完全有信心"},{"start":571.282,"end":588.493,"text":"很有可能會這樣做對不對可能的方式我們都不排除中選會公正性專業性一定要被肯定這個是你的重責大任對不對我再給你看一下你看這個開票2024年開票的時候雲林東名村你看這個開票綠色的是賴清德的"},{"start":593.905,"end":620.527,"text":"跟這個政黨票右邊這藍色是國民黨的侯友宜左邊這是柯文哲的總統票跟政黨票你們發現落差太大了雲林的東明村新北市的這個井南里賴清德的政黨票跟民進跟民進的政黨票都很近對不對國民黨侯友宜跟國民黨的政黨票很近可是你看那個那邊柯文哲154票政黨票才開了10票"},{"start":621.414,"end":641.469,"text":"然後井南里277票 政黨票才開30我再繼續給你看喔花蓮啊仁里村也是這種狀況柯匯澤開202票 政黨票竟然只有一票可是你看賴清德跟侯友宜的跟政黨票都是一致的右邊這個桃園市的果林里也是這種狀況"},{"start":646.005,"end":671.114,"text":"我覺得這個落差太大了我們發現如果有異常狀況的話都會要求主任管理員他再要double check一定要做再重新一次的來做確認而且這個確認有三道手續有三道關卡的確認所以作為醫療行政總控就是應該在很快的時間內要再清查一次嗎那當然那今天我做個簡單的結論你剛剛講的我剛剛講"},{"start":675.117,"end":687.903,"text":"公正性 被信任非常重要這應該是你的重責大任嘛所以剛剛講那個紙箱那個一定要趕快好好去討論好不好我剛剛講那個底部用壓克力板透明的這是非常多人我們想辦法來克服好不好 今天往這個方向來走好 謝謝委員好 謝謝登記發言委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":955,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時）請陸委會邱垂正主委。"],["主席（張委員宏陸）：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，你是哪裡人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我是新竹人。"],["張委員啓楷：新竹人，如果照行政院官網，有漢人跟其他人，對不對？你是哪裡人？如果照行政院官網的分類，你說你是新竹，那你是新竹哪邊的人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：新竹市。"],["張委員啓楷：是漢人還是其他人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：一般漢人。"],["張委員啓楷：你是漢人？行政院現在把96.2%的漢人變成是其他人，所以你說你是漢人，那以後你就是其他人，是不是？照這樣分類，是不是其他人？陸委會主委，這個問題很重要，現在民進黨政府一直在推動去中化、去漢化，你的工作會不會很難做？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們並沒有做委員所說那樣的事情。"],["張委員啓楷：現在兩岸看起來很多事都停擺，我看你很多業務都推動的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：還是有在持續地進行交流，只不過我們去統戰化、去政治化，讓交流回歸到對等尊嚴、健康有序的環境來進行。"],["張委員啓楷：對，多溝通啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：然後多一些和平，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：少一些對立，要不然的話，老實講，再這樣下去，陸委會不是只有預算凍結，今天在解凍，陸委會搞不好以後都要裁掉，因為沒有功能了，沒有需要啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們同仁現在還在履行兩岸條例跟港澳條例的相關業務，我們陸委會同仁都戰戰兢兢的，業務其實也相當地繁重，更重要的……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我看你今天的解凍報告提到，我們臺灣現在有36萬6,000個陸配家庭，一個家庭用大概4口人來算好了，大概有150萬個陸配家庭，跟陸配有關係的差不多150萬，對不對？我看你的這個報告裡面有講到，要協助陸配家庭深化、融入我國社會生活等政策，對不對？要多努力！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這是我們職責所在。"],["張委員啓楷：對，我們希望多一些協助、多一些照顧。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：老實講，最近不只沒有協助，我覺得最近在推民國93年，也就是2004年3月1號之前……要陸配回去找21年以前他在大陸的除籍資料，老實講是強人所難。當然，這段時間，包括你也到我辦公室，我們都有協調，我大概開了六次協調會，這已經是我第四次質詢這個問題了，我們現在看起來有些突破，可是老實講，照顧還是不夠，我先來講我們現在做了哪些事情，有些地方我們再進一步來解決，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["張委員啓楷：我先問你，現在最新的一個解決方案就是很多陸配跟他們的二代接到你們的通知之後，很擔心會不會戶籍被取消，或者甚至被驅逐出境，變成人球。現在我們初步的突破是這樣子，一方面我們先治標跟治本，治標的部分我們現在做了，就是現在開始接受申請，對不對？包括可以本人到移民署，也可以用郵件、用紙本，對不對？然後接到之後，是不是一個月內你們就要做好審查？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，有關現在這些在協處的專案，剛剛委員也說因為年代久遠，如果他手邊沒有任何的證明文件，我們移民署跟海基會都會提供，讓他有所本。","第二個，他可能在放棄大陸原籍的部分還有許多窒礙難行之處，我們要感謝委員，包括您，還有你們辦公室團隊都積極地協助，我們也讓你們辦公室轉來的個案都得到充分的協助。我要跟委員講，這個案子並不是在找陸配家庭的麻煩，而是我們在疫情期間做了第一波清理，然後回溯清理時發現，還是有人沒有放棄，一直到剛剛委員所說的2004年3月1號之前，那些要放棄大陸原籍的，很多都沒有放棄，我們是也可以把問題蓋下來，但是我們選擇面對問題，勇於承擔，而且找出解決問題的方法，讓我們的陸配家庭真的有機會不要受別人質疑，讓他在臺灣的身分是合法的，在這個前提下，才能安居樂業，我們是朝這個目的來做。"],["張委員啓楷：對啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然，有一些資深陸配或是他們的二代，我們要提供許多的協助，讓他排除各種困難……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我們今天最重要的是要解決問題，政府存在的目的不是製造問題，是解決問題，所以我們要共同努力。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：現在擔心的陸配跟他們的二代，我們今天很清楚跟他講，本來他們擔心什麼？你4月2號寄通知，要他們在三個月內完成除籍，對不對？時間快到了喔……"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，委員……"],["張委員啓楷：聽我講、聽我講。"],["邱主任委員垂正：只要跟我們聯繫就不用擔心有被除籍的問題。"],["張委員啓楷：再講一次，所以現在跟陸委會、跟移民署、跟海基會……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟移民署、跟海基會聯繫上，就沒有問題，我們都會專人輔導，來解決他的問題。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以不會有6月底或者7月初被除籍這個問題？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們都會全力協助。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以他們只要去申請，你們就會給他一個通知，對不對？然後會有三個可能，來，看一下。第一個，你們同意讓他用切結的方式來取代，對不對？這是第一種，這是最理想的，就是說他真的沒辦法回大陸去，或者資料已經找不到了，你就同意他用切結的，這是最好的一個方式，對不對？第二種，雖然沒辦法用具結的，可是你會同意他展延，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：另外，最壞的一種狀況，你不同意，中間不同意的話，你還是至少會給他三個月的展延時間，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：就是最右邊這一欄嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：最後面這一欄，真的就是窒礙難行，有特別的狀況，我們也會專案來協助他。"],["張委員啓楷：所以他只要找到你們，或者到我們辦公室，我們把案子轉過去，就可以爭取到時間？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["張委員啓楷：有這三個解決的方案。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員啓楷：當然，這是治標，治本還是要修法啦，所以民眾黨會提出修法，在93年之前的，我們會提修法來治本。另外，我問你一個最近比較新的，大陸現在有四個省分不發了，之前是浙江，對不對？現在山東、山西、安徽跟浙江，他們都不發了，這怎麼解決？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，您剛剛講的這些省分，拒絕提供陸配朋友回去放棄他的原籍證明，拒絕給他除籍文件，這個是極少數，這些都是個案，個案的部分我們就來協助溝通聯繫。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，主委，五個省分，大概不會是少數啦！不過，反正案子到你那邊，你一定要……"],["邱主任委員垂正：真的是個案，我們截至目前為止都滿順利的。"],["張委員啓楷：好，就用專案去幫忙，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉，因為時間拖太久了，不好意思，主席，我再2分鐘。主委，你先請回，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：不好意思，謝謝！我再請中選會主委，因為這個問題滿嚴重的，我要請問一下。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：主委你好。這次2024年總統大選的時候，有出現一個屏東縣中正國小第146投開票所……我們看一下這個畫面，這個你應該都有看過錄影帶，對不對？他們就是在懷疑或者是質疑這個紙箱……紙箱不管你怎麼折，一定會有一個後面折起來的地方，對不對？會有一個夾層嘛，對不對？這個是拍到夾層有一些選票掉出來。我們來解決這個問題，好不好？現在有人提出，紙箱一定有折痕，你能不能做一個底部是透明壓克力板的？這樣是不是能夠解決問題？"],["李主任委員進勇：選務的相關設備、器具、應用物品有這樣的問題而引起社會的議論，甚至於恐慌，我覺得很不值，所以我很積極在進行研究，看怎麼樣能夠去除這樣的疑慮。當然委員所建議的，我們也會列入考慮，我們會積極的去研究如何能夠讓投票人完全有信心。"],["張委員啓楷：所以會納入，很有可能會這樣做，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：可能的方式，我們都不排除。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，中選會的公正性、專業性一定要被肯定，這個是你的重責大任，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的、是的。"],["張委員啓楷：我再給你看一下，2024年開票的時候，你看這個開票，綠色的是賴清德的總統票和民進黨的政黨票，右邊藍色的是侯友宜的總統票和國民黨的政黨票，左邊是柯文哲的總統票和民眾黨的政黨票，你有沒有發現落差太大了！雲林的東明村、新北市的景南里，賴清德的總統票和民進黨的政黨票都很近，對不對？國民黨侯友宜的總統票和國民黨的政黨票也很近，可是你看雲林的東明村，柯文哲的總統票有154票，民眾黨的政黨票才開10票，新北市的景南里，總統票有277票，政黨票才開30票。我要繼續給你看，花蓮的仁里村也是這種狀況，柯文哲的總統票開202票，民眾黨的政黨票竟然只有1票，可是你看賴清德及侯友宜的總統票和政黨票都是一致的，右邊的桃園市菓林里也是這種狀況，你有沒有覺得這個落差太大了？"],["李主任委員進勇：對，我們發現有異常狀況的話，都會要求主任管理員要double check，一定要再重新做確認，而且這個確認有三道手續，有三道關卡的確認……"],["張委員啓楷：對，所以以後如果有這種狀況，應該在很快的時間內要再去清查一次，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：那當然，那當然。"],["張委員啓楷：好，我今天做個簡單的結論，我剛剛講，公正性、被信任非常重要，這應該是你的重責大任，所以剛剛講的那個紙箱的部分一定要趕快好好去討論，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我剛剛講那個底部用透明的壓克力板，這是非常多人提出來的……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們想辦法來克服……"],["張委員啓楷：好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：想辦法來克服。"],["張委員啓楷：儘量往這個方向來走，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束；委員蘇巧慧所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報；書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。本次會議質詢時間循例並未減少，且能視個別委員的質詢需要，容許委員的答詢時間酌予延長，爰此，本次會議每位委員發言時間列入會議紀錄。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-19","speakers":["張宏陸","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","吳琪銘","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","黃捷","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算解凍案；二、處理114年度中央政府\n總預算有關不當黨產處理委員會預算解凍案；三、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關中央\n選舉委員會及所屬預算解凍案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關大陸委員會預算解凍案；\n五、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關客家委員會及所屬預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1144901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}