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因為還有一段整修的時間"},{"start":1919.722,"end":1935.599,"text":"我一直到了6月的中旬之後才陸續有在官邸使用 開一些跟部長的會議我個人一直到6月底或7月初 詳細日子我忘記了6月底或7月初我會每個禮拜使用兩天"},{"start":1936.4,"end":1939.743,"text":"博帝你碰喜在關底的時間應該沒那麼多阿沒有沒有像我們前陣子嘉義發生公災"},{"start":1962.864,"end":1967.247,"text":"陳建仁院長同樣時間的電費人家少了你50%你用了2萬度15萬人民的納稅錢這是一個很重要的對比所以現在兩個問題要解決"},{"start":1990.694,"end":1991.175,"text":"施政報告"},{"start":2010.418,"end":2010.558,"text":"施政報告"},{"start":2031.631,"end":2057.354,"text":"陳建仁陳院長同樣是院長的官邸做對比同樣的時間點你多出人家50%欸這個趕快去改好不好你剛講就是說你要去查嘛對不對對要查那更重要的更重要的人民的觀感就會很不好的嘛所以要怎麼去把這個墊節省下來好不好你要趕快去做這件事情4到6月啊我使用的時間非常短他也是增加了3700度左右6到8月"},{"start":2058.001,"end":2078.195,"text":"我有比較多一點的使用他增加了3900度我覺得這個數字都非常的異常都非常的異常其實不是跟你行政院院長的這個官邸出問題而已啦我給他看一下你知道今年中央部會一共花了多少的人民納稅錢嗎幫你們付電費嗎今年喔40億更離譜的"},{"start":2086.516,"end":2096.687,"text":"我們送來的遺産書裡面我們一本一本去翻明年的中央政府竟然要用到101億暴增了25億"},{"start":2100.922,"end":2111.469,"text":"現在不是只有你單純你自己的官邸用太多多了50%出來喔明年竟然一下子用到一百零億人民的納稅錢暴增了25%這個兩個部分跟委員解釋111年我們電費漲了8.4%112年跟113年各漲了11%左右所以加起來這三年的30%"},{"start":2123.918,"end":2150.907,"text":"過去的預算都沒有反映在預算裡面我們這次把它編了這是第一部分第二部分過去台電吸收以前都沒漲的現在一次把它漲足喔議員長以前為什麼沒有漲就是人民不能這麼苦店家不能這麼苦所以你才會不要漲這麼多嘛你現在變成說一次以前都沒漲的把盈利全部抹掉然後再一次要不要編足是沒漲是以前漲價之後都是吸收都沒有編漲價的費用那第二點我們現在"},{"start":2154.049,"end":2168.56,"text":"臺電不再負擔這麼多的政策吸收所以回歸到教育部衛福部等等部會首長部會單位他們就目的事業主管機關編自己的預算來支應電費所以回到部會裡面來所以雙重的因素之下"},{"start":2169.343,"end":2169.764,"text":"電費的這個編列是比較多的"},{"start":2184.537,"end":2193.885,"text":"人民已經很苦阿很多店家跟產業已經很苦阿所以才不能漲那麼多嘛以前不能漲現在就不能漲對不對而且你把以前沒有漲的全部放在這一次人民受得了嗎電費已經漲了但是過去3年電費都沒有反映在預算裡面"},{"start":2207.197,"end":2209.018,"text":"所以這個預算我們一定會延審好不好"},{"start":2235.66,"end":2243.015,"text":"我更期待了現在總預算退回去嘛我覺得院長你可以去想一想真的嘛以前沒有漲的全部在才一年裡面你要增加25%增加21億"},{"start":2245.792,"end":2249.216,"text":"是不是讓請委員在審查預算的時候實質討論我們希望部會首長跟部會的官員都能夠向大院來清楚說明"},{"start":2269.226,"end":2283.266,"text":"好啦我很期待啦很期待你是透過這次總預算退回去程序委員會不只是原住民的那個進法那個補償包括我們農民的公糧這個收購欸明年的總預算增加4000億欸"},{"start":2286.629,"end":2311.108,"text":"那個原住民那個預算才多少21億我們公糧收過一年也60億那個都是零頭你要照顧原住民不照顧要照顧農民不照顧一定要增加4000億為什麼現在有機會退回去城區委員我拜託拜託院長重新想一下一個是電費不要多這麼多這是要調整的第二個怎麼照顧我們原住民怎麼照顧農民想一下好不好都要經過合理的編列程序要合法合憲"},{"start":2314.43,"end":2340.928,"text":"這樣我們才能夠保持預算的完整性原住民的這個禁法條例是我們三讀通過的我們台灣民眾黨提的公糧收購提高一公斤提高五塊錢是經過院會通過的這都是法定的預算這次有個機會退到程序會議趕快補破網好不好這個可以跟大院再好好的討論這樣的編列方式如果可行將來行政院編列預算的法定權利將會被破壞那我們不願意這樣做但是我們希望說各部會"},{"start":2342.209,"end":2369.585,"text":"在編列預算的時候能夠具體說明清楚審查預算的時候也能夠很清楚的捍衛自己的預算這樣整個預算的完整性才能完整院長今年4月1號調的平均的這個幅度是11%民生用電只有5到10那我剛提醒你了你一下增加了25% 101那是連過去兩三年的我再給你看一個我從你個人的觀底談到整體的預算再來進一步我們來看某些機關來"},{"start":2374.796,"end":2387.149,"text":"總統府明年的水電費要增加28%施法院一下子跳了60%剛剛在講在挖礦挖比特幣嗎"},{"start":2389.308,"end":2405.698,"text":"委員這種形容非常不當委員這種形容非常不當你說司法院在挖比特幣這樣形容非常不當我覺得不要用這樣的形容是民間在諷刺為什麼民間黨在挖比特幣這個錢是誰的錢大家國人的錢我們人民的納稅錢付你們水電費結果這個幅度漲這麼高"},{"start":2414.261,"end":2442.965,"text":"你不掏人民的錢我剛剛跟委員講過那是三年的為什麼委員都不談論這一點一直用你一開始的論調呢那我們這裡沒有辦法這樣對話嘛我說這是三年來調整的百分之三十過去沒有反映在預算上甚至把它反映上去了就是這樣的計算方式那進入實質審查之後委員如果有意見可以在審查的時候跟我們的各部位首長好好的去討論那這個要做一個合理的編列這個我們都接受"},{"start":2443.405,"end":2468.207,"text":"院長你解釋了三年沒有漲 這次要把它漲熟不是三年沒有漲 三年沒有反應第一個當初沒有漲一定有它的理由 而且已經漲得過多了這三年已經漲得過多了 你都反應在上面 第二更嚴重了你再一次要漲25% 人民是不會接受的 人民是不會接受的兩萬年前 今天你說的 我們到審查的時候好好來討論"},{"start":2469.368,"end":2475.456,"text":"4月或9月在漲電價的時候沒有辦法適時的反映在預算上面這個我應該知道這個時程"},{"start":2477.574,"end":2479.755,"text":"今天也是一個很重要的事情"},{"start":2508.615,"end":2530.321,"text":"今天的最新的新聞說10月1號要漲電價而且幅度本來跟原來講的本來說要漲多少不給你1000億的補貼你要漲12到13%現在一下子要漲到13到14為什麼突然又調高了第二個你們這是情緒勒索嗎甚至什麼這恐惡取材嗎"},{"start":2531.704,"end":2559.089,"text":"你一下子一定要給你撥補,你撥撥補我就要漲你的電價,有這種道理嗎?把人民當什麼?當帕納薩?當培養是不是?報告委員,撥補台電是為了改善台電的財務結構,跟電價沒有關係,電價是由電價審議會...誒誒市長,等一下等一下等一下等一下,你要改善你的財務也有很多方法啊你開源節流啊,你有很多方法,你為什麼要拿人民納稅錢一千億又補上去?院長我提醒你一下齁"},{"start":2560.995,"end":2586.668,"text":"臺電的資產可以重估他的資產可以活化現在你說要改善這個財務最簡單的啊臺鐵現在不是正在做嗎為什麼你為什麼不去做自己的財資產的這個重估或者是說是活化你反而拿這筆納稅錢一千億一千億這樣去補嗎我先提醒你這一點第一個所以不要為了所謂你本身臺電的錯誤要去漲人民的一千億"},{"start":2587.668,"end":2602.095,"text":"不要去讓我們撥補然後不要再漲我們電價可以嗎第一點電價要不要漲要等電價審議會來決定並不是政府能夠主導而且現在外部委員已經過半所以對於電價未來要怎麼樣漲或跌這要由電價審議會來決定"},{"start":2604.096,"end":2619.333,"text":"第二點一千億的撥補是因為過去向院長講由臺電吸收之後他的財務結構需要補充但是我要跟委員報告我們已經請臺電要做資產重估火化資產改善經營效率多方採購等等這些都會照原理自然做"},{"start":2621.653,"end":2650.255,"text":"郭部長說如果這個一千億有撥補應該就是不會有漲這個價的問題那我現在進一步跟你講你這一千億根本就是不用是為了臺電的財務去做這個一千億的撥補有更好的方法嘛你臺電的資產兩兆一千億欸你自己不努力不做開源節流的事情包括你能源政策錯誤你從人民的身上掏錢所以這個一千億本來就不應該給那如果是像郭部長上禮拜講的"},{"start":2651.684,"end":2678.826,"text":"第一個一千億我們就想辦法不要從人民身上再去撥補第二個10月1號就不要再漲電價了我問一下部長我問一下議員你說4月1號民生用電已經漲了民生很苦對不對4月1號今年漁人節已經漲過一次了嘛你回答我人民這個漲電價一方面衝擊到物價一方面要穩定民生嘛你也是傾向說10月1號不要漲對不對"},{"start":2681.051,"end":2705.972,"text":"這個是政府的期待,但是還是要由電價審議會來決定你今天能不能清楚跟全民贏,10月1號不要再漲電價了你是比較接地氣的,我剛剛已經講了,第一個現在電費已經太高,人民已經哭哈哈的第一個你上禮拜也講了,你認為這個會衝擊到物價,衝擊到民生甚至你之前都講了,10月1號漲了就不要再漲了你今天清楚的跟人民講"},{"start":2708.412,"end":2733.943,"text":"雖然電價審議委員會還沒有開但是我想能夠擔任是電價審議委員的這些先進們都會觀測到整個社會民生的需求我個人認為雖然我們的民生用電現在是低於台電的發電成本但是基於民生用電的需求政府應該想盡各種方法來對民生的用電"},{"start":2735.305,"end":2745.296,"text":"來讓他有平穩的機制不要再增加大家的負擔這是要的但是我們的產業結構這些用電大戶的用電的量跟用電的單價我覺得我"},{"start":2747.728,"end":2766.306,"text":"我們就讓這個電價審議委員會來討論結論現在沒有人知道 但是我是希望你講這個很重要啊 你說希望馬上要開的電價審議委員會 民生用電這是我個人的期待不要漲了 要嘛就去檢討包括工業用電是不是這樣子"},{"start":2766.826,"end":2771.549,"text":"所以一句話就是這個討論跟追加預算一千億是不一樣的追加預算那就是要來看過去台電支付那麼多的政策目標之後"},{"start":2788.58,"end":2796.908,"text":"財政財務上的健全需不需要讓他能夠順利的經營以及民生用電需不要政府多投一些來協助讓他能夠平穩"},{"start":2797.557,"end":2820.293,"text":"那我們要用這個方式來講另外臺電花了很多錢做電網韌性的改善這個要不要增加一些錢讓他處理因為電價審議委員會馬上就要開了我們要決定10月1號要不要漲電價那大家生氣的是今天的媒體已經講了不只原來的12到13%他一下子要漲13到14那我們經過今天這樣的對話以人民為主"},{"start":2821.175,"end":2847.572,"text":"我們盡量民生用電不要再去碰到的甚至更進一步的現在很多產業用電也是很辛苦我只能說這是我我自己的想法我個人的想法第一個我們盡量再往10月1號不要漲電價的方向去走好不好我們盡量往這邊去走接下來我們來討論那個1000億你別的地方可以找到這1000億阿你為什麼每次都要從大家的人民的口袋裡面去掏錢呢大家看一下"},{"start":2850.599,"end":2869.106,"text":"從2022年的12月開始你們透過認股的增資1500特別預算500然後經濟部又認股增資1000過去的3年已經拿了人民的納稅錢3000億去補了台電另外大家看右邊這個表"},{"start":2872.149,"end":2891.438,"text":"過去3年漲了3次的電價一次漲8.4一次漲11%一次漲11%3年3年漲了3年漲了30%院長我現在提醒你最重要是什麼你現在看到一個趨勢波普漲價波普漲價結果問題有解決嗎沒有"},{"start":2898.4,"end":2909.208,"text":"去年 去年 去年底的時候3800多億的這個虧損你們說4月1號 今年4月1號 讓我漲一下電價結果虧損越來越嚴重啊現在變成無底洞 就表示你現在用撥補 院長你現在用撥補跟漲人民的這個電價 你不只沒有解決問題你變成個無底洞啊"},{"start":2923.286,"end":2931.933,"text":"報告委員 這個每次漲價都沒有漲到應該有的成本這個是我 這是真的所以 所以要用撥補的方式來填補這個財務的狀況那今年4月漲價之後可是你現在 你現在就是還是一彎一彎還是在漲電價10月一下馬上要漲 第二個你還是在撥補啊"},{"start":2943.302,"end":2943.863,"text":"院長 透過我們這樣兌換你沒有發現"},{"start":2966.274,"end":2993.335,"text":"你在講漲電價的同時在講撥補的時候你都解決不了問題就台電那個虧損是越來越大的有發現這個問題嗎你如果行政院長跟這個執政黨沒辦法解決問題只能從人民的身上一直操繭再撥補一直漲電價人民對你們不會很失望嗎人民不會很苦嗎也許委員認為是左手跟右手目的是主管機關來付或是台電來付再委員看也許是左手右手"},{"start":2993.735,"end":3021.344,"text":"但就台電來看就是他財務能不能健全經營能不能適妥的一個方式現在我們就是把他的很多的補貼政策移到目的事業主管機關來我們希望台電能夠真正的自立自營來經營他的財務院長你現在提了一個方法啦就是用政策補貼要改回去啦例如說可能各個機關以前台電負擔的這才是一個正常之道可是我再提醒你這個雷水車薪真正要財務的解決"},{"start":3022.625,"end":3049.267,"text":"要重更奏齊這簡單的嘛我們從國小就練過了從這個地方開始從大體的來推動開源節流嘛對不對開源節流嘛我剛給你看的就是節流從你的官邸到各個機關的用水電費一直到各個機關總統府跟司法院不要用那麼多的電你叫人民說要省電結果政府拍幾串頭"},{"start":3051.172,"end":3051.972,"text":"其實我們的電價應該是往下降不是往上漲"},{"start":3081.087,"end":3091.289,"text":"每次你們要漲的時候這是一個最重要的因素你特別說烏鶴戰爭以後天然氣暴漲這張圖我們看一下這張圖這個是天然氣最近這幾年他的整個趨勢圖給大家看一下這個圖你有沒有看到2022跟2023很高阿你看齁"},{"start":3109.804,"end":3123.948,"text":"天然氣最暴增的時候是在就是上面那個2022到2023年對不對可是你有發現嗎2023年就往下掉了現在2024嘛對不對2024右邊你看右邊這個圖跟左邊的2017年跟2018年現在國際天然氣的價格從去年2023年就開始掉了掉到現在"},{"start":3139.042,"end":3156.702,"text":"比201717年跟2018年還低是不是這樣所以剛剛跟委員報告四月之後臺電的盈餘狀況是有所改善的跟這個也有相關啊對啊我剛剛已經講過啦所以院長你這個很重要所以是那個電費應該降啊你怎麼反而往上飆呢"},{"start":3160.232,"end":3180.8,"text":"你的過程成本在往下掉的時候竟然電費不是降你是往上是成本的關係我們電費的原則第一個是反應成本第二個是照顧民生第二個是穩定物價再來是節能指引碳所以第一個要反應成本過去都沒有辦法反應成本因為原料也高各種都很高現在是盡量把它接近成本"},{"start":3181.3,"end":3207.094,"text":"一定是你跟大家說的從上一任的總統跟院長到你這一任的院長跟總統還有經濟部你們就跟我講為什麼虧損會那麼嚴重包括要漲電價你們的過電成本還是高的嘛所以我今天給你看啊你們一直講天然氣啊這個土清清楚楚了吧它已經掉下來了今年是改善的啊對所以它掉下來了今年是改善的但過去虧損太多院長院長所以改善了所以電價是不是往下降"},{"start":3211.582,"end":3233.557,"text":"過去虧損太多我們距離成本還是有距離的距離發電成本還是有距離的你已經過去3年撥補了3000億以上然後你已經漲了三次電價了你跟我講還撥不夠等一下次長你不要講你已經撥補那麼多漲了那麼多我再重複一次好不好3年撥補了3000億以上"},{"start":3236.853,"end":3242.218,"text":"那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例那有相當的比例"},{"start":3256.509,"end":3281.648,"text":"還有民生用電其實是低於成本的所以政府也要穩定民生用電的成本計算不會漲太多的民生用電這個是已經存在多年的事實所以他的財務狀況一直不是很好尤其到了2022、2023整個燃料、能源上漲之後他的級距是加深的那今年我們在4月調漲之後以及現在這個能源的變化"},{"start":3282.248,"end":3309.99,"text":"今年度到4月之後它是有所改善的但過去的虧損仍然很多就是那兩個原因一個是穩定民生一個就是政策的撥補政策的這個政策之印那現在我們把政策這個回到各目的世界主管機關那我們再撥再希望用最佳預算來填補現在的這個民生用電這樣我們期待一年兩年之後的台電呈現出來的可以現在經營狀況會有所不點那天郭部長在這裡"},{"start":3310.831,"end":3333.319,"text":"也很大聲的說兩年之內他希望能夠有所改善那希望給經濟部一個這樣的時間也給台電同仁努力辛苦給他們一個鼓勵院長我們台灣人民的出資是很高的我想從這個圖很清楚看出來就是前幾年政府一直在講因為天然氣暴增所以你的電費必須漲今天很清楚從這個圖看出來"},{"start":3335.117,"end":3353.425,"text":"拜託一下現在電費應該是考慮要往下降了不是再往上漲我們現在還跟發電成本還有距離問題來了為什麼你的發電成本應該是往下降啊你用天然氣用那麼多你以前漲電價發電成本高也是天然氣啊它降了啊所以問題"},{"start":3358.496,"end":3374.952,"text":"出在什麼地方?一定還有另外一個漏洞你沒有跟人民講嘛你有一個沒有跟人民講的真相嘛為什麼成本還在增加?天然氣明明也是這樣啊為什麼?這段時間出了什麼問題?現在核能的比例已經相當低了所以核能的成本並不能"},{"start":3382.492,"end":3397.223,"text":"降低太多的成本因為現在是要彌補過去的這個狀況過去的這個補貼政策現在台電的這個財務是不健全的那希望說能夠讓他財務健全兩年之後那天郭部長講了"},{"start":3397.984,"end":3425.821,"text":"他很勇敢的而且負責的講兩年之內要把台電的經營讓他能夠順暢能夠進入到一個正常的經營的狀態那我們應該給台電這樣努力的空間所以我們盡量把他的財務狀況調的比較健全一點不要負太多的政策的負擔責任院長你台電的財務怎麼樣才可以財務的健全很多方式他本來是經濟模板我回到剛剛那張圖給大家看一下台電是一個經濟模回到上面那張圖"},{"start":3427.861,"end":3440.587,"text":"台電為什麼金雞母變成敗家子?你在講他財務的問題你看喔2017年2018年的時候台電都還是金雞母都還是賺錢的2017年那時候台電賺多少錢?118億2018年的時候還賺了35億到了今年你們累計要虧損多少?光是今年2024年不只沒有賺錢喔"},{"start":3455.66,"end":3466.088,"text":"要競損2124億為什麼這麼大的落差同樣天然氣現在天然氣已經比2017年跟18還低了那時候是賺錢的為什麼現在賠這麼多你在講財務問題在哪裡我們看下一張好不好問題在你剛講的你把核電廢掉之後"},{"start":3485.54,"end":3486.941,"text":"當然啦 核電你現場買很便宜售後服務就很貴阿"},{"start":3504.733,"end":3506.355,"text":"那也是人民的錢不是嗎?"},{"start":3517.398,"end":3540.9,"text":"對阿 你的再生能源買很貴阿現在就兩個問題嘛 你現在講財務你現在出了問題我剛剛跟你講 現進產業需要用綠能阿你以前是賺錢的 現在賠錢那你有去知道 去看那個結構到底 能源結構出了什麼問題第一個就是因為你把核電停掉了嘛 結果你買了很多再生能源欸這兩個價格差很多 你有沒有跟人民講這個事情 而且你又跟真相沒有講 要跟全民去講清楚"},{"start":3543.186,"end":3543.326,"text":"議長 讓我講完"},{"start":3560.54,"end":3561.741,"text":"院長你在會合的同時是不是要跟人民講"},{"start":3582.766,"end":3583.466,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3606.676,"end":3624.991,"text":"所謂的真相就是 核電買很便宜啦 比較便宜 對它事後的售後服務非常的貴每一筆錢都是 而且它的建設費用也很高 這個都要算進去的現在核電已經佔的比例相當低了而且你講後端 我們每一度店裡面就有核廢料的處理 有核後端的基金啊 細菌果園擺在那"},{"start":3633.218,"end":3661.111,"text":"這也是人民的錢這也是人民的錢所以繼續的用就會繼續要處理核廢料你剛講的是有問題的院長來來來最關鍵我覺得人民最關心的啦實業也要不要漲電價第二個你要跟人民講真相要講清楚因為你們廢核這是你們的薪酬班或者你們的意識形態嘛這個代價有多高一度電來看看這是從台電的官網抓下來的資料核電一度電的成本"},{"start":3664.879,"end":3685.924,"text":"1.13對不對 過便宜了吧你剛剛在講核二端處理基金4000多億也在那裡用火力發電一度要多少 2.98用再生能源5.39你這段時間你剛剛講那個為什麼一直在拿錢 拿漲人民的電價一直在撥補就是因為核一停了 核二停了 核三的一號機停了"},{"start":3697.045,"end":3713.689,"text":"好 謝謝時間到齊改委員謝謝張齊改委員 謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第9號陳培宇委員質詢"},{"start":3735.479,"end":3735.86,"text":"請卓院長備詢"},{"start":3753.759,"end":3777.479,"text":"委員長早安三個跟兒少有關的議題快速跟您討論第一個我想要談的是3C我想要先說3C是中性的但是一旦過度的使用不當的使用對於非常多兒少造成的困擾我相信這幾年所有的行政機關還有包含院長您一定都相當的清楚我們來看一下但是可以怎麼樣對抗3C呢我這裡想要試著提出一個解方"},{"start":3778.752,"end":3805.672,"text":"一個是用閱讀來對抗3C但是這個我是有一些學理論證想要跟院長分享來下一頁在非常多的社群網站都可以隨便找就可以找到有非常多的老師跟家長在分享孩子們過度使用3C會注意力不集中而且這個注意力不集中會長時間的延續到他他入學以後開始學習學術相關科目表現都非常的不好甚至情緒也會不穩定下一頁"},{"start":3806.912,"end":3830.421,"text":"我們來看一下相關的科學研究其實從疫情前就開始有人在研究到疫情後這幾年相關的研究絕對超過1000篇以左手邊這個大腦白紙比較文展跟右手邊這個比較不完整可以看到過度使用3C長時間使用3C不當使用3C孩子們的大腦發育會出現很大的問題他在識字認知情緒控管會出現困難這個是學齡前我們已經可以看到證據下一頁"},{"start":3832.506,"end":3854.845,"text":"那如果時間用得更長呢﹖他會外顯到個人的行為表現在學校裡面就會出現了問題他跟同學跟老師之間也會有非常多的衝突下一頁那另外呢﹖如果過度使用3C呢﹖他在語言讀寫還有認知能力的測驗表現分數也會較低這都是這幾年非常完整的研究這是國外的研究我們來看下一頁"},{"start":3856.087,"end":3872.285,"text":"到了臺灣我們發現從衛福部給我們的數字裡面可以看到3歲4歲5歲院長你有發現嗎年紀越小的小孩用3C的時間越來越長喔那這都會對認知語言社會情緒身體功能還有整體的認知發展都會有明顯的負面影響下一頁"},{"start":3874.448,"end":3900.699,"text":"台灣呢做了一個統計這個是施大跟受了衛福部還是教育部的委託做了一個相關的研究我們發現從3個月開始6個月12個月然後1歲半2歲3歲4歲5歲孩子們親子共讀綠色那一塊都非常非常的低但是看電視跟用3C的比例卻非常非常的高我想這個已經充分的表現全世界的孩子跟台灣的孩子一樣都有3C過度使用的問題好下一頁"},{"start":3901.719,"end":3901.84,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":3917.318,"end":3943.133,"text":"那怎麼解呢 其實在所有的研究當中 包含國外跟台灣的研究都告訴我們要維持孩子的注意力 維持孩子的情緒穩定除了良好的家庭教育跟陪伴品質 有一件事情成本很低 而且也很簡單 就是用閱讀所以呢 每一年都會有相關的單位 包含師大 他們也都會召開記者會跟大家分享他們的研究報告 也告訴大家在閱讀這件事情上"},{"start":3943.353,"end":3958.37,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":3958.37,"end":3958.69,"text":"所以我來問一下其實我們盤點過"},{"start":3977.618,"end":4000.142,"text":"衛福部、文化部、教育部在孩子不同的年齡階段其實都已經有給予一些些我必須要說是一些些閱讀資源但是它是破碎的而且它不是用國家統整的高度來面對這個議題那如果3C這件事情它真的很有可能是未來或者是現在孩子們在一路成長的國安危機我們政府單位還可以做哪些事情"},{"start":4000.282,"end":4001.923,"text":"謝謝委員：從這個角度對我們兒少的身心健康提出了這個提醒"},{"start":4027.645,"end":4045.597,"text":"我認為除了學校家庭也是很重要的爸爸媽媽跟小孩之間的互動如果是用一個3C來減少互動是為了比較安寧的話那也許這樣的只對螢幕不對父母的現象會產生所以學校家庭都要進行很多的一個"},{"start":4047.339,"end":4067.718,"text":"認知上的改變才可以那我希望這幾個部會都能夠提出比如說我們這個衛福部就提出一些什麼手機還我小孩不哭等等之類的一些情境的手冊出來那我希望說各個方面也要從健康方面文化方面家庭生活方面能夠來持續做這些事情做更多的投入"},{"start":4068.257,"end":4082.496,"text":"我這邊有想要因為我的時間有限我想要簡單提出用閱讀對抗3C在各個部會盤點之下除了現有我剛說的那些少少的預算少少的事情之外有沒有機會用國家的高度來面對3C這件事情是引入閱讀"},{"start":4083.557,"end":4112.566,"text":"在這個AI時代因為我們是AI創新內閣我也要講下個月即將出版的一本中文書但是我已經看過英文版它裡面就在提到AI時代AI所能夠提供給我們的是知識但不是智慧唯有人類有智慧而智慧才有辦法去辨別跟思考還有批判所有來到我們面前的知識是不是正確的所以我也想要拜託院長協同各個部會在後續的閱讀政策上閱讀資源上可不可以以國家的高度統整三個部會"},{"start":4113.126,"end":4137.101,"text":"提出用閱讀對抗3C還有協助爸爸媽媽您剛剛說的協助爸爸媽媽跟協助老師共同去面對3C的困境是 比方說教育部也有提出一個新世代雙閱讀就鼓勵有數位閱讀跟紙本閱讀增加閱讀素養我覺得這個是現在很長一段時間我們在教育體系當中有所忽略或許那現在教育部已經提出了是不是不知道能夠簡單的簡要的跟"},{"start":4140.082,"end":4165.628,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心事實上我們從2000年開始這個全面教育部在推動這個閱讀運動以來那我今年剛上任但是等一下對不起部長因為我時間有限我們可不可以後續再跟你們討論我因為對閱讀非常熟悉所以我已經研究過了我簡單的跟委員報告就是說我們現在也鼓勵中小學所有的圖書館搬到一樓然後他是"},{"start":4166.528,"end":4169.43,"text":"在閱讀導入學校或是協助家庭教育的部分我們一起努力"},{"start":4194.059,"end":4199.124,"text":"我們來看下一題喔 另外一個也是困境 也是兒少的困境就在普特融合的部分喔普特融合當然是一個非常重要的回應"},{"start":4219.845,"end":4224.162,"text":"這個時代的理念但是問題現場非常多的困境我想我要讓院長知道來 第一個"},{"start":4225.993,"end":4254.32,"text":"在修法之後其實有相關的執法都已經盤點完而且也陸續修法完成可是我們看到還是有一些困境來下一頁第一個是老師的相關專業知能研習這個部分其實還沒有跟上腳步再來就是關於學生合理調整執營的部分其實也還不夠我們來看下一頁還有之前在教育文化委員會質詢的時候我也拜託過部長在分散式資源班他們共用教室甚至共同分攤導師費的部分其實對於現場的老師教學都非常的不利之前有跟部長討論過"},{"start":4255.3,"end":4255.6,"text":"施政策略委員"},{"start":4278.817,"end":4304.276,"text":"在IEP以外還要額外做課程計劃這對於在教學現場行政量已經非常重的特教老師其實都帶來很大的困境我們辦公室甚至拜託國教署跟地方政府一起來開協調會來解決地方政府到底認知上出了什麼問題我想要講這麼多問題我當然會說教育部跟國教署真的在普特融合已經很努力了可是在很多現場的落實跟政策真的還是要拜託院長"},{"start":4305.437,"end":4321.008,"text":"給教育部更多的資源讓教育部有機會跟國教署共同協助地方政府在補足人力也好在空間的調整也好在相關費用真的都可以讓普生、特生、普師、特師都會共同有感因為我們是一個普特融合的現場"},{"start":4323.063,"end":4324.165,"text":"主要就是希望"},{"start":4341.306,"end":4365.672,"text":"陳委員剛才所提的我們也希望在這個支援班裡面能夠降低這個師生比也能夠提供許多的這些普特融合教師的增能包括強化這個普特融合的等等包括無障礙環境的一些改善我們總是希望這些特教一方面能夠支持我們普通班有更多的一些特殊需求的這些學生能夠"},{"start":4366.312,"end":4385.542,"text":"在一般的教室裡邊來學習那也希望能夠透過更多的一個支持讓在普通班的老師能夠增能能夠協助這個特教學生在普通班的一個更好的一些發展我想這個方向我們是一直在努力的"},{"start":4385.899,"end":4404.097,"text":"那後續這個部分我們也會跟教育部跟國教署持續保持聯絡協助現場更多老師跟家長好吧那也謝謝院長的支持喔好謝謝部長謝謝接下來一題呢要談的是臺灣的即將升格的體育暨運動發展部那前兩天周思齊引退喔在他的現場我雖然沒有到現場但是我有看"},{"start":4405.278,"end":4417.832,"text":"埃爾達的轉播,其中有講到一段我非常的有感他說你們大家還記得臺北棒球場嗎那就是大巨蛋的前身很多人可能不知道它的原始在哪裡就是現在的小巨蛋而那個地方承載了很多的記憶"},{"start":4419.614,"end":4447.049,"text":"臺北市長已經承諾所謂協助立一個杯可是我認為這件事情應該不會只有地方政府的事情其實我相信在院長您的心中一定也對這樣的事情很有感觸所以是不是可以拜託體育署在所謂體育記憶文化傳承的部分我們不要只是立一個杯因為周思齊他身為一個選手他談的是這個事情但是用國家的高度如何協助記憶臺灣的運動文化不要讓它流失甚至有非常多的文物"},{"start":4447.769,"end":4465.476,"text":"現在體育署只有做數位典藏但是一般人很沒有感甚至不知道我想這個運動文化記憶的傳承想要拜託行政院持續努力再來我時間有限我先講再來關於他在那天的引退他講了一段話他說如果你們在牌桌上看到小兄弟拜託不要拍照"},{"start":4466.016,"end":4491.219,"text":"但是請去告訴他們我們回去練球好嗎他在講的是大家共同的職棒賭博的記憶我相信院長你一定也印象深刻當年球場只剩下101個人在1999年花了25年的時間臺灣球場總算回到了4萬人院長我要跟你說到目前為止體育署本來應該要開的職棒防堵會議到現在一場都還沒有開已經快要年底了我要講的是"},{"start":4492.04,"end":4517.695,"text":"在相關的條例裡面我們也提出我們希望有防堵會議的落實我們希望有防堵信託的支持我們希望有法治教育的深化如果有這些支持我們的選手就不用成為被賭博的工具他們甚至可以不用被黑道威脅在那個時代的記憶走到現在周思齊還有今年隱退的三位選手包含關大元、高國慶都談了相關的問題這個部分要拜託院長在新的部會裡面要積極的落實"},{"start":4520.437,"end":4521.478,"text":"全新與全民運動發展部"},{"start":4549.476,"end":4570.195,"text":"院長我想要問你看得出來裡面哪些是俱樂部的小孩哪些是學校體育班的小孩嗎應該看不出來對不對對我想我也是看不出來但是對我們來說他們就是台灣孩子他們就是台灣的兒少我想要談目前的規劃裡面我看不到兒少運動司我們之前一直在跟體育署開會可不可以提出一個"},{"start":4570.896,"end":4585.835,"text":"而稍為主體政策去思考的兒少運動司不要侷限在社區俱樂部也不要只有侷限在學校的體育班不要只有侷限在校隊如何把這個事情擴大到兒少運動司我覺得是有機會而且也想要拜託行政院"},{"start":4586.555,"end":4586.915,"text":"請院長快速回應"},{"start":4609.182,"end":4633.36,"text":"謝謝委員的關心跟深入我會請我們體育局運動發展部 院內的籌備小組 龔明星秘書長以及諮詢小組的召集人鄭麗君副院長他們能夠再請委員能夠把這些資料我們把它納到會議相關討論會議當中我覺得非常有他的意義臺灣不僅要有棒球的紀念那個圓山足球場我也很懷念"},{"start":4633.863,"end":4657.649,"text":"是是是沒錯沒錯好我最後還有20秒我只講一個標題就好了我們之後會再跟教育部討論會考制度已經實施10年了有非常多的事情其實需要重新盤點跟討論這個部分我想部長一定也會表達關心是不是後續我們還有機會再開持續的深入會議來討論關於會考制度造成的一些問題部長點頭當然好那我們就先謝謝部長後續我們會持續討論也謝謝院長謝謝"},{"start":4660.677,"end":4660.777,"text":"羅志強委員"},{"start":4698.695,"end":4703.076,"text":"主席有請行政院院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢陸委員好院長好我想請教一下我念一句話對總預算有意見有幾種處理的方式包括退回總預算修正說明通過或擇期在意這句話誰說的"},{"start":4728.649,"end":4745.9,"text":"委員說的這句話是2003年柯建民說的我們偉大的柯總召說的我想請教您在2008年曾經民進黨提案要退回馬英九政府的總預算請問你知道提案人是誰嗎我告訴你是當時的民進黨黨團幹事長賴清德說真的跟院長說一下有點感慨"},{"start":4758.703,"end":4778.131,"text":"全世界全台灣都知道民進黨雙標但也不要雙標這麼明顯啦柯建民自己都說對總預算有意見可以退回阿阿現在民進黨總預算被退回了我現在看到網路上很多謠言包括民進黨很多人站出來把國家說好像滅亡一樣"},{"start":4779.534,"end":4803.601,"text":"那麼如果退回總預算有這麼禍國殃民那民進黨是要先發個聲明來譴責一下賴清德總統呢以前也想退馬英九總統的總預算啊還是民進黨的邏輯是退民進黨的總預算叫傷天害理對不對退國民黨的總預算就是天公地道不要這麼雙標可以嗎 院長"},{"start":4805.132,"end":4823.651,"text":"謝謝委員對於總議選被退回我只有兩個字感覺遺憾過去我覺得好啦謝謝你對柯建民遺憾也謝謝你對賴清德遺憾過去不管什麼時候總議選被退回這個時候的行政單位應該也會做同樣的表達沒關係阿你要努力打臉柯建民跟賴清德我也尊重啦畢竟你是賴清德"},{"start":4824.468,"end":4843.247,"text":"的愛將嘛你這麼愛愛心的愛到打臉他我也接受啦那我想請教一下其實在野黨退行政院總預算也不是私出無名阿今天我跟你講行政院提的很多的預算過去預算的使用也有很多人不滿意吧 院長是不是"},{"start":4844.446,"end":4844.586,"text":"9月16號民進黨"},{"start":4867.952,"end":4868.132,"text":"沒有錯"},{"start":4885.677,"end":4906.275,"text":"未來不允許這樣的情形 你有沒有這樣說過所以你自己都知道 民進黨過去預算執行使用有問題在野黨來為人民把關 好好監督荷包 也是順行我們卓議院長的意志啊所以難道只許龍泰不滿 不准在野退回嗎"},{"start":4907.356,"end":4928.721,"text":"我發現問題我們是解決問題退回解決不了問題好啦你今天不滿叫做解決問題我們不滿就叫製造問題退回解決不了問題謝謝你再繼續不要再打臉賴清德跟柯建民我真的是我代替賴清德柯建民求求你啦不要再打臉他們啦又是時空環境不同我知道幫你講了"},{"start":4930.353,"end":4952.063,"text":"那我跟你講剛剛我們偉大的卓院長這麼樣反省這個所謂的標案集中的問題那我跟您說來你知道嗎立法院預算中心有說政府各個機關媒體宣傳多以限制性招標的方式部分得標廠商過度集中你有注意到這個問題嗎"},{"start":4954.437,"end":4983.715,"text":"如果這個是產生問題的原因我們就要把這個原因檢討之後從新的方式來做問題的解決那你知道農委會限制性招標的比例多少嗎你要新的方式見往之來過去怎麼做的方式都不知道新的方式不容易找到我告訴你99.99%限制性招標衛福部多少"},{"start":4987.188,"end":5012.919,"text":"99.82勞動部多少?99.47內政部多少?98.25國發會多少?百分之百啊請部長來說明沒關係啊 全部列在你後面來 全部都站出來 部長你講啊我們的衛福部 農委會 勞動部 內政部 法務部 國發會主管院長請你們全部上來好 沒關係 我要跟你講我就要講新方法了"},{"start":5013.82,"end":5038.627,"text":"建網之來 檢討過去才能設立未來嘛 對不對那很簡單啊你預算94%給民視這個叫什麼 花人民錢 洗人民腦我用白話文說就是養有慮媒體嘛就是養有慮媒體 沒關係啊 待會我講完再問他回答所以我跟你講 我有一個很好的建設性方案"},{"start":5040.263,"end":5062.67,"text":"現在我跟各位講請問我們院長你知道我們的媒體政策跟業務宣導費編列多少嗎?今年?明年?會不會這個不知道吧?全部政府嗎?對啊全部政府編列的數字有說增加了9.5億14.多億好啦我跟你講沒關係啦學長這數字還是要稍微盯一下"},{"start":5067.927,"end":5094.982,"text":"十四億九千兩百八十八萬較今年增加五點九億元暴增百分之六十五我不知道欸卓院長你都對過去感到這個做法覺得很有問題對不對太過集中對百分之九十四集中特定媒體百分之九十九的限制性招標結果我不知道我們的政府哪來的自信還可以增加百分之六十五預算讓你去洗腦啊"},{"start":5095.882,"end":5098.324,"text":"我告訴你我還是回到我們令我尊敬的9月16號的卓議院長"},{"start":5123.586,"end":5148.678,"text":"關鍵跟你編列數跟你現在成長數我告訴你沒有政相關政相關是什麼你要讓政府今天真真正正善用人民納稅的錢就是把你過去沒做好把它扣掉啦對不對你94%的預算集中給特定媒體我就砍你94%的預算啊這樣子我現在剩下6%你會不會好好運用"},{"start":5149.338,"end":5174.393,"text":"你不用尊敬我 你相信我就可以我相信你 我也尊敬你我只限於相信9月16號的主流報今天到目前為止表現我有點疑慮9月13號我說的話 我們若是在未來預算執行當中我跟主委員長講 砍到行政院院長你就會立場有點改變 沒有關係但是我跟你講 立法院幫人民把守荷包是我們天職吧 對不對"},{"start":5175.54,"end":5188.451,"text":"你過去你都承認集中預算標案這樣是不對的那我就用這個做預算指標來看看行政院未來預算該怎麼編嘛你太集中了我就砍嘛"},{"start":5189.56,"end":5212.911,"text":"回應民意嘛每一分每一毛都是人民的納稅錢啊你都斤斤計較原住民進法補償了對不對對不對21億那麼計較那我跟你講行政院的完全預算亂用我砍一砍拿去給原住民用我也覺得開心原住民也開心陳寅也開心吳立華也開心啊你的原則啊讓費羅作為原則我無法接受啦"},{"start":5219.755,"end":5230.633,"text":"施出有名整個預算書大致粗略的看了一下真的問題很多你知道吧 院長"},{"start":5231.903,"end":5252.668,"text":"我們在野地我是幫你把關找出很多的問題我們各個部會都很用心編列來來來 我跟你講我要講下一個問題再問一次沒關係 我們一個一個講我真的今天 我講三天三夜講不完但我只舉幾個比較好玩的例子我們大家一起當作一個有趣的事情來共同探討一下我想請教一下剛剛我們這個張祺凱委員就對我們的您的官邸"},{"start":5262.992,"end":5287.62,"text":"這個電費齁 暴增他覺得齁 很有意見他就說齁 你們是在挖比特礦嗎 比特幣嗎當然你就不認同嘛 你覺得這樣說法不好我也不認同 怎麼會是挖比特幣呢是在養北極熊啊什麼挖比特幣 養北極熊啊我再問我們的卓院長齁"},{"start":5289.363,"end":5316.919,"text":"我想問一下你比較怕熱還是陳建仁比較怕熱一樣一樣啊不不不我覺得你比較怕熱你有沒有看過X戰警X戰警他不怕熱啊X戰警不怕熱錯X戰警有一個人很怕熱誰你知道嗎兵人很怕熱啦兵人在一級X戰裡面就是被火噴死的啦很怕熱啦你可以去應徵X戰警的兵人啦"},{"start":5318.12,"end":5325.945,"text":"我們陳進仁可以應徵還可以贊成火人啦火人不怕熱你超級怕熱你跟電費可以比陳進仁多50%到底發生什麼事啊我知道你說檢討嘛我們幫你檢討嘛你用的時間並不多比那台多50%6月到8月不是你用的6月到8月是不是你用的嘛今年6月到8月是多少"},{"start":5346.766,"end":5347.727,"text":"所以我講第二件事啊"},{"start":5368.939,"end":5373.62,"text":"請問北海道是黑熊的棲息地還是棕熊的棲息地?北海道是黑熊的棲息地還是棕熊的棲息地?難倒你了啦 對不對"},{"start":5398.667,"end":5423.579,"text":"我給你一個暗示台灣是黑熊棲息地還是棕熊棲息地台灣黑熊比較有名黑熊嘛對不對那越北方你知道哪一種熊比較在北方一點的那北海道的棲息地是誰是誰的棲息地因為我白熊啊再更貴北極熊就你們行政院官邸養的我知道啦那個我現在是到北極去了啦棕熊啦北海道是棕熊棲息地啦"},{"start":5424.38,"end":5438.075,"text":"那我問你喔 如果今天政府編一筆預算說我偉大的政府 超級關心國際的生態保育我要到北海道去考察黑熊保育這個預算 如果院長看了 你會不會舌頭掉下來啊叫他更改去考察棕熊很好啊 理由都亂編啊"},{"start":5446.417,"end":5473.566,"text":"就在預算書裡面當然不是你行政院啦不能算給你啊監察院啦監察院給我編一筆預算所有的北海道考察黑熊保育我都快昏了黑熊保育跟監察院業務什麼關係第一個問號第二個跑到人家日本北海道人家明明是中熊七七地去考察黑熊我跟院長說啊我剛剛講過了今年的總預算是歷史新高吧是吧"},{"start":5478.201,"end":5494.786,"text":"非常努力我覺得今天我們要努力的幫老百姓把關這是我們的天職嘛 對不對所以我剛剛隨便舉就三個例子然後接下來我們再講下一個啦好不好下一個今天我們講退回總預算對不對"},{"start":5497.625,"end":5523.079,"text":"原因之一就是因為行政院沒有編足我們立法院三讀通過的原住民禁法補償條例的預算嘛 對不對這個是原因之一啦 對不對那我想請問齁你不編足這21億我剛剛隨便講那些東西加起來也真的是夯不啷噹包括政府的電費大增啊 什麼大增啊"},{"start":5524.529,"end":5543.853,"text":"說真的 原住民的進法補償這麼多年沒調整我們對原住民總要有點交代嘛 對不對你知道這個進法補償條例提出來 你知道是誰提案的嗎誰提案的 高金素梅委員提案的何止高金素梅啊 還有陳寅跟伍麗華院長我真的跟你講啦今天這一件事情沒有那麼難解決"},{"start":5553.055,"end":5574.809,"text":"只要院長一顆柔軟的心對原住民有一點柔軟的心你對立法院立的國家法律三讀通過法律有一顆柔軟的心你就直接跟在野黨溝通你就溝通你今天既然三讀通過對原住民對農民的照顧行政院絕對努力的把預算編組來對武麗華交代來對陳盈交代院長願不願意"},{"start":5582.452,"end":5602.341,"text":"我們絕對有柔軟的心但是在柔軟之前我們對憲法跟法定的預算承受必須要維護好柔軟在你的柔軟心之下原住民踩在腳底下你叫民進黨立委怎麼到原住民選區去面對你沒有關係我告訴你講今天總預算退回"},{"start":5610.785,"end":5637.022,"text":"今天起因之一是進法補償條例那我今天也知道院長您的態度沒關係反正原住民的票或原住民的福利原住民的福祉原住民的權益原住民過去的所謂的正義這不是黨派的問題不是哪一個委員哪一個黨的問題所以這個是憲法給予行政院編列預算預算完整性的問題接下來我想請教您啊柯建民就說要去釋憲嘛是不是"},{"start":5640.558,"end":5641.639,"text":"今天政府創下歷史新高的預算 增加4000多億"},{"start":5666.577,"end":5687.063,"text":"連一個對原住民柔軟的心都沒有然後到處 現在很多到處謠言啊講到說什麼總預算被退回 社福支出 什麼都不見了我講一個東西給院長聽 你認不認同這是我們現在法律規則的狀況即便總預算被退回"},{"start":5688.567,"end":5707.312,"text":"法律性的所謂的支出法律義務支出其實也是不受影響包括社會保險包括社會保險補助教育經費補助地方補助大概佔六成如果真的沒有收到補助反而是行政機關怠惰"},{"start":5708.325,"end":5734.38,"text":"然後侵害人民權益至於非法律義務的支出根據預算法54條之規定國會就算沒有在法定期限內通過預算審查行政部門可以依照上一年度預算先執行我真的說實在話啦民進黨不要一天到晚搞認知作戰這件事起因就是對民進黨政府對國家法律的不尊重預算濫編我隨便講那麼多的例子預算濫編然後呢"},{"start":5735.834,"end":5757.396,"text":"加上今天對原住民我們必須為原住民伸張啊所以這個事情搞了半天如果真的要讓總預算不要退對不對我們來去審啦看看我們到底是北海道該考察黑熊還是棕熊就是對原住民謙卑就解決了啦我想請教您下一個問題"},{"start":5759.088,"end":5765.33,"text":"院長除外根據各大機構民調包括臺灣民意基金會等等的民調臺灣民眾土片對司法沒有信心你知道原因是什麼嗎我跟你講一個是跟死刑有關一個是偵查不公開變偵查大公開我想再請教你下一個問題"},{"start":5783.578,"end":5803.391,"text":"民進黨在黨綱的自由人權章裡面直接寫嚴議廢止死刑的可行性 院長你贊成廢除死刑嗎對不起 再說一次黨綱就跟你講我剛剛問問題的時候好啦沒關係來您先喝口水先喝口水先緩和一下喝口水沒關係然後我再問我的問題對好 謝謝院長"},{"start":5812.574,"end":5842.26,"text":"民進黨在黨綱的自由人權章直接寫研議廢止死刑的可行性 院長你贊成廢除死刑嗎黨綱這麼寫是研議它的可行性 那現在的可行不可行在憲法法庭之後它就是一個標準 那我們在這個標準底下您贊成廢除死刑嗎現在大法官憲法法庭所做出來的決定就是我們的東方投票我一直很欣賞你 我覺得你是有擔當的人"},{"start":5843.73,"end":5872.079,"text":"連這句話有打不出來沒有那我就問你下一題你知道依照國內目前的多項民調多數人贊成廢除死刑還是反對廢除死刑依照民調的結果這個贊成死刑的是比較多對啊就是桃園民意基金會84%反對廢死嘛中華人權協會是今年這樣都今年的民調80%反對廢死那我想請問你齁在這麼強大的反廢死的民意之下你贊成大法官用憲法解釋的方式廢除死刑嗎"},{"start":5873.527,"end":5895.855,"text":"第一個他的解釋是有條件的合憲那下面訴出來很多的條件我們現在行政機關就在這個條件底下我們如何逐一的去執行你的回答是我下一個要問的問題啦那你贊成大法官用憲法解釋的方式表面說實行合憲但又有條件的方式設下18同仁證的超高門檻來達到實質廢死嗎"},{"start":5899.343,"end":5924.212,"text":"我不能說同意不同意因為大法官出來我們就只能做社會共通的標準我們在研究行政部門該做的比方說兩年內該修很多的法蔡英文政府的法務部長曾經主張死刑的存費應該由立法院透過修法的方式決定不應由大法官來解釋你認同這樣的主張嗎部長坐坐各位委員報告那法務部在這一次的那個死刑的憲法訴訟的延遲編入"},{"start":5926.202,"end":5932.304,"text":"認為大法官雖然宣布死刑核限但其實已經是實質廢死了你覺得大法官已經實質廢死了嗎?"},{"start":5957.304,"end":5972.089,"text":"在滿足他所列的那種狀況條件底下是應該有執行的空間是有空間的我講一個更具體更直觀的指標有沒有實質廢死就看死刑有沒有執行對不對如果到2028年我們賴清德總統任滿之前你覺得死刑有執行的可能性嗎"},{"start":5985.234,"end":6012.479,"text":"因為他裏面有很多 為什麼有37個 死刑定驗的死刑犯喔死刑有執行的可能性嗎他裏面有很多 必須在兩年內完成修法我直接跟你講啦 我告訴你啦零啦 不會有啦我很獨斷的說啦我們到2028年5月19號 吳國遠院長不管你還在不在這個位置上我們把我今天講這話打開來看看 好不好"},{"start":6013.514,"end":6041.871,"text":"社會大眾就認為已經實質廢死了啦來 我為什麼這樣講不是因為有憑證那我就問法務部長啊 你要不要找一天來司法法治委員會報告一下接下來37名死刑犯的非常上訴你打算怎麼應對以及他死刑執行你打算怎麼應對欸你這可不要推大法官了 大法官現在是說核限喔"},{"start":6043.097,"end":6054.3,"text":"阿既然合憲就執行阿執不執行?要不要依法執行?很好阿沒關係啦沒關係所以我跟你講我第一個跟我們的卓院長講2028之前那開始熱滿之前我不認為有任何死刑會執行就是實質廢死"},{"start":6070.506,"end":6091.212,"text":"但會不會有死刑執行這個問號也不用卓院長回答就是法務部長因為現在是法務部的事了吧不是吧是不是對啊所以請我也會跟我們的司法法務委員會招委來請你來做個專案報告好好跟國人解釋一下是不是實質廢死"},{"start":6092.776,"end":6120.305,"text":"那我跟院長說我講說是不是實質廢死我跟你講不是沒有本據的啦現在要判死是不是很難啦院長你對相關數據有概念嗎我直接講司法院殺人案件量刑系統統計犯下刑法271條普通殺人罪的罪犯你知道有百分之多少會被判死嗎百分之四對我上面已經秀給你看"},{"start":6121.377,"end":6146.023,"text":"可是在過去5年,過去5年誰執政?誰執政?民進黨執政476件殺人權利案件只有一件死刑定讞所以是降到千分之二一千件殺人案件只有兩個凶嫌會判死所以還不用大法官設門檻現狀要判就不容易了"},{"start":6147.239,"end":6172.985,"text":"施行要訂閱很難但要執行施行我跟你講更難你知道過去4年來從2020年5月到現在請問政府有沒有執行過施行上面有啦 我都很大方的啦對 我也不想用這種方式突襲院長沒有啦 零啦那我想請問齁我就不算現在賴總統啦"},{"start":6175.219,"end":6202.017,"text":"我們最近的3位總統你知道陳水扁任內執行多少個死刑嗎那有執行過32個馬英九任內多少個33個蔡英文任內多少個2個難不難賴清德到現在為止幾個當然是0可是我直接跟你講賴清德就是0一路0到底是不是實質廢死其實判準很簡單"},{"start":6203.476,"end":6223.03,"text":"我們就看著法務部接下來對37位死刑定驗的所謂的死刑犯你今天到底的做法是什麼到底實質廢死是大法官實質廢死還是今天卓榮泰內閣行政院實質廢死人民都睜大眼睛在看喔"},{"start":6224.502,"end":6231.069,"text":"行政機關推大法官 大法官推行政機關 但是我跟你講為什麼今天已經沒有興趣去管你到底是大法官推給行政機關還是行政機關推給大法官"},{"start":6246.53,"end":6267.109,"text":"我們今天站在這裡是真的是對那些無辜往死的被害人還有被害者家屬感到深深的沉痛憲法法庭也說兩年內要完成很多法律的修改這不只是行政院的責任大院也應該可以在這個時間內跟行政院互相來配合好 那接下來我要想請教一下"},{"start":6273.407,"end":6296.602,"text":"我們的大法官說犯罪情節屬最嚴重之罪才能判死嘛對不對是那麼如果犯下情節最嚴重的罪就應該要考慮死刑嘛那我想請問標準在哪裡你說情節最嚴重我舉個例子啊姦殺殺警察殺父母殺小孩嚴重危害社會治安這些算不算犯罪情節嚴重這個是算非常嚴重的非常嚴重謝謝"},{"start":6300.131,"end":6311.979,"text":"我就看我們法務部接下來對於現在死刑定讞的一些死刑犯你是不是用這個標準去看我們看到這37名的死刑犯裡面有人監察83歲的老婦人"},{"start":6314.537,"end":6317.919,"text":"請問這些叫不叫犯罪情形嚴重如果這些不叫犯罪情形嚴重"},{"start":6343.973,"end":6358.727,"text":"我還真不知道什麼叫犯罪情形嚴重我真的要請問院長你知道這37案要背負多少人命嗎?你知道嗎?這個數字我請院長跟部長老老記在心裡好不好這個數字我真的是很誠懇請老老記在心裡61條人命"},{"start":6372.61,"end":6385.836,"text":"當這個社會走向實質廢死的時候請大家請真的請大家看看這61條往死的人沒有關係嘛我跟你講院長今天你講也沒有用嘛我剛已經說過好不好我跟你的對話我就說過了"},{"start":6399.878,"end":6400.838,"text":"我會非常樂意你指證我的錯誤"},{"start":6429.022,"end":6456.775,"text":"因為當看到這些往死的人請問院長你心裡躺不躺血你躺不躺血我覺得這種行為國人都無法容忍法律也無法容忍但如果它合於憲法規定的正當法律程序好了 院長因為我的時間也差不多了政府必須依法執行謝謝你啦我本來要問偵查不公開變偵查大公開但我只剩1分鐘所以我問你一個簡單一點的題目"},{"start":6459.626,"end":6484.274,"text":"請問最近衛福部長邱太元公開爆料說賴清德打電話罵環境部長童啟明這件事你有聽聞嗎我看媒體知道所以我們的邱部長也沒跟你講啊我看媒體知道事後的詢問我覺得邱部長的發言相當的不當他自己也聲表歉意好啦那請他們兩個上來一下啦對不對我幫助你們大和解一下啦兩個握個手啦"},{"start":6487.848,"end":6497.905,"text":"真的不好看我跟他沒有怎樣阿我說我不說你我生兩個他們兩個你跟他沒怎樣你跟他問題才大了他跳過你三個更好"},{"start":6499.827,"end":6511.33,"text":"部長不要跳過行政院長去告遇狀不好啦好不好這樣對卓院長不尊重啦好啦我知道啦好好的團隊努力為國家做事謝謝您謝謝委員謝謝羅志強委員質詢謝謝卓院長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢"},{"start":7205.387,"end":7205.808,"text":"林國成委員"},{"start":7246.325,"end":7252.207,"text":"好謝謝院長請行政院卓院長勞動部我們何部長請勞動部何部長備詢議員好好院長"},{"start":7269.175,"end":7296.103,"text":"我看你每一次來到立法院西裝必挺然後穿得端端正正非常欣賞那是對院長的指示還有對大院的尊敬我也要特別強調在我們韓院長阿他的響應之下院長你看一下我是打領帶又穿西裝"},{"start":7297.481,"end":7312.21,"text":"為什麼 一樣 立法委員尊重行政院 行政院尊重立法院這是基本的為官之道的禮數所以本席還要再強調一次"},{"start":7314.441,"end":7336.692,"text":"臺灣民眾黨理性務實科學所以我在問政的時候我絕對是以理性方式來探討但是有一點勞工出身雖然穿上西裝但是我有一個個性也就是當我提問題答非所問不針對問題"},{"start":7338.936,"end":7363.066,"text":"我們這個勞工就會硬怒所以我還是要拜託院長我提問題的時候我們是共同來探討為了台灣為了所有的民眾我們共同來討論出一個行政院可以做的方法院長我想我這個拜託應該你不會反對吧"},{"start":7363.82,"end":7392.385,"text":"我會很誠實的很忠實的反應委員的詢詢我如果答得不夠完整我會請部長來加強好 謝謝院長 謝謝部長我當然我很關心就是台灣一千一百多萬勞工的問題所以我的標題很清楚也就是政府說得到要做得到千萬勞工才會安心"},{"start":7393.484,"end":7410.085,"text":"其實從民進黨執政這兩年來我對他對於勞工的勞保基金的處理方式個人覺得是負責跟滿意的"},{"start":7411.34,"end":7429.057,"text":"因為我要談的很簡單就是勞保基金的問題當然你們撥補也有撥補但是我今天要跟院長報告的就是過去勞保基金虧損年年當然"},{"start":7431.243,"end":7450.015,"text":"我都希望所有執政過的政府都要概括承受絕對不是勞工繳勺的問題而造成所以勞工是無辜的這一點我希望院長應該是很了解因為你也從"},{"start":7450.936,"end":7465.997,"text":"立法委員從基層選舉出來你可以瞭解勞苦功高不敢講勞工對於整個社會是有幫助的所以最後一塊的勞保基金的棺材本"},{"start":7466.718,"end":7466.898,"text":"這一點 院長"},{"start":7488.766,"end":7497.713,"text":"你應該認同吧勞工是臺灣發展經濟最重要的資產從過去歷任的政府到現在對勞工的照顧從來不敢怠慢"},{"start":7498.547,"end":7498.867,"text":"所以 院長"},{"start":7523.188,"end":7537.622,"text":"我常講過我個人對你是尊敬的但是有些政策你如果違背的時候當然我也是對你有所質疑但是我們要替台灣人做事當然就針對問題來談問題所以我還是要拜託院長"},{"start":7541.943,"end":7560.622,"text":"本席還有我們國民黨民進黨都有同樣的共識也就是現在勞保條例66條撥補的部分是行政院長也是你們決定自動撥補去挽救勞保基金"},{"start":7562.904,"end":7583.611,"text":"但是本席認為啊 既然你們這兩三年來都有在撥普那撥普是危機的處理 但是在法的立場 完完全全是行政作為所以本席率先跟我們宴會裡面的同仁 我就提一個"},{"start":7584.711,"end":7599.697,"text":"老保條例66條的修法也就是把撥補常態化 撥補法制化所以 院長 這個撥補讓他入法我想聽聽你的意見 聽聽部長的意見"},{"start":7607.074,"end":7622.743,"text":"謝謝委員垂詢非常肯定委員一直支持我們撥補勞保基金那麼因為是在這個我們目前總統在520就進行了宣誓只要政府在勞保就不會倒"},{"start":7624.597,"end":7642.421,"text":"總統宣誓底下 院長也承諾在今年的114年度的總預算裡面我們就編列了1300億的預算你們現在有在做 剛才我也跟院長說明了你們都有在做 那我的提這個66條只是把它"},{"start":7645.482,"end":7675.042,"text":"法制化也就是說現在勞保條例66條當中是沒有的但是本期已經提了這個法那當然最後還是要行政機關當然因為我認為立法院通過的東西只要行政機關不要因為我很怕又要提釋憲啦所以啊乾脆我們就講清楚如果這個是入法是對整個法制對勞工是有保障的"},{"start":7675.562,"end":7676.983,"text":"老保條例69條是什麼?"},{"start":7702.59,"end":7723.613,"text":"勞工有一段時間在10年前一天到晚恐嚇勞工勞保基金快要倒 勞保基金快要倒其實這對1100多萬有頭保的勞工他心有多痠 他心有多恐懼所以69條的部分我也希望把它入法"},{"start":7724.153,"end":7744.274,"text":"也就是 院長 不管是陳院長 不管是卓院長 甚至乙民村部長跟何部長 你們都同聲的保證勞保不會倒 勞保勞工一定領到他的棺材本 這點我要跟你們肯定 但是本席還是要拜託"},{"start":7745.535,"end":7771.802,"text":"因為我提69條是把他政府最終給付讓1100萬的勞工他知道他也了解政府已經下了法定的政府最終給付所以這一點我特別要跟卓院長要跟何部長讓你們了解我提這個案的當中是你們現在都有在做"},{"start":7772.222,"end":7801.024,"text":"所以這點我希望也不要再提視線講清楚說明白我想都是為了勞工好都是為了勞工好讓勞工安心政府也盡心讓這樣一團和氣勞工的問題解決就等於解決社會二分之一的問題所以總院長我剛才已經說明這麼清楚你對已入華你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":7801.98,"end":7829.105,"text":"一句話就是我們對勞保這個基金除了撥補之外還有很多其他的多元的配套可以來運用所以現在只能跟委員說的是政府不負責沒有人可以負責所以剛剛副部長講政府在勞保不會倒而且我們又會想辦法對勞工要更好謝謝卓院長因為你也是接地氣勞工要的不多"},{"start":7829.825,"end":7855.637,"text":"只要政務有作為勞工自然就會放心所以這一塊我要拜託卓院長拜託何部長當我們在我們立法院有關程序勞保條例66條69條的時候我希望行政機關院長也在那邊講也認同我希望這個會很順利的來入華這入華本來就是你們有在做讓勞工覺得他自己本身得到"},{"start":7856.758,"end":7877.082,"text":"我們卓院長跟何部長絕對肯定的讓他們一個安心所以我希望政府盡心勞工安心這個政策能夠去做好好不好 院長我們會靈活的運用這個勞保基金 謝謝好 接下來我們請教育部長來教育部長 政部長好 院長那個何部長你也不要走來來來"},{"start":7886.963,"end":7902.299,"text":"因為我現在要跟你談的齁我現在要跟你談的或許啊這些範圍很大但是這個是一個社會問題左院長我剛才在跟你討論你接地氣"},{"start":7903.513,"end":7931.852,"text":"但是有些事情你沒有為官沒有當行政院長的時候你沒有辦法做但是當你有機會當了中華民國的行政院長的時候你就有辦法去做這是什麼政策的問題我要跟你談的就是技職教育萎縮以後臺灣產業真的是非常危機"},{"start":7932.981,"end":7954.676,"text":"那有些人就在講林國成你是勞工出身為什麼要談這個議題這個議題很重要欸產業倒勞工就倒勞工倒產業就倒所以息息相關所以我要跟院長說明的跟兩位部長說明的技職的重要性好接下來"},{"start":7957.329,"end":7967.738,"text":"好 我要考考事啦 我要考考事我們賴清德總統在7月21號的時候他在開幕等你的時候我要請教何部長賴總統怎麼說總統在當時就指示他說台灣未來的產業"},{"start":7984.521,"end":7984.841,"text":"賴清德總統講這些話"},{"start":8003.925,"end":8004.305,"text":"總統怎麼講總統怎麼講"},{"start":8030.477,"end":8045.603,"text":"你現在只有瞭解卓院長你都還不瞭解賴總統這樣不行啦他就說計時教育非常重要啦不是只有像你講的這種光面團圓的光話所以"},{"start":8046.584,"end":8047.965,"text":"你同不同意總統講這些話"},{"start":8073.288,"end":8080.274,"text":"既然都同意了那我們就來探討一個比較客觀的問題來 下一張即時能力 真的學生為什麼會不青睞這叫做什麼 我們教育政策出問題"},{"start":8103.63,"end":8130.931,"text":"還有教育連貫性不實在所以才會產生這個問題所以我們就來看看這個問題在哪邊所以我提供給我們卓院長去做政策的決策才有辦法指令我們勞動部跟我們教育部要把它連貫起來因為教育跟技職是息息相關的好 下一張"},{"start":8133.768,"end":8136.717,"text":"說實在啦我再度再重申計止教育是臺灣經濟奇蹟的締造者"},{"start":8140.646,"end":8163.564,"text":"那這個締造者當然我們要去引導不然的話怎麼樣去締造者所以我在想我們從不管從50年代50年代開始從重工業開始起基在60年代這個人才的培育到70年代高科技的培育"},{"start":8164.465,"end":8175.722,"text":"這個方向都是對可是有一點從50年代還OK沒有問題60年代在計職教育還好在這個部分據我個人所研究"},{"start":8177.781,"end":8198.834,"text":"吳京部長在這個部分 他是做了跟行政院長報告 跟總統報告 計職教育做了最好的一段所以提供給部長去做參考那段時間第一個哪有什麼這個移工的問題啦 沒有 為什麼"},{"start":8199.906,"end":8200.186,"text":"施政報告"},{"start":8216.718,"end":8243.854,"text":"在這個部分我們的技職教育聯關性是不足的這我特別教育部政部長我要讓你了解要你了解所以我的簡單雖然吳京部長已經卸任但是他確實在技職教育部分是做得非常到位非常連結跟產業是連結的接下來"},{"start":8246.345,"end":8257.947,"text":"下一張好我說實在的阿 院長沒有計職教育阿就沒有今天的台積電阿 院長這句話你同意吧"},{"start":8260.316,"end":8280.154,"text":"所以這個台積電現在世界各國是一個護國神山那這個是什麼當初如果沒有政府正確方向去引導哪有這些工程書哪有今天的台積電所以我為什麼會提這個是只要給"},{"start":8281.396,"end":8282.298,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":8292.116,"end":8310.945,"text":"我們的教改成不成功我們都不要談成不成功我相信我不要問院長你也知道為什麼要回復50年代做得非常好的60年代做得非常好的技職教育為什麼就是未來到現在為止"},{"start":8312.315,"end":8331.221,"text":"副長你沒有發現到大家都要用移工嗎你現在壓力很大的不管是10萬個20萬個我們現在的移工高達這麼多不管是營造業不管是旅館業連開公車的都希望外勞連我們台電"},{"start":8333.562,"end":8344.993,"text":"在修理電線的都需要外勞這是為什麼就是我們技職教育失敗嘛所以這20年來完全是失敗的耶卓院長"},{"start":8346.345,"end":8370.354,"text":"我以重心長我們看到的是這些根本就是教育連貫失敗的計職教育是很失敗的耶 議長這樣啦 我用這個時間給議長因為我剛才跟你報告這些事情議長來 你對於計職教育本席到現在為止提出來哪一點不符合實際議長 來"},{"start":8372.655,"end":8372.855,"text":"主席"},{"start":8396.491,"end":8423.391,"text":"我們整個產業的結構能不能跟計職教育能夠銜接在一起其中兩項一個就是我們計職教育能不能提供很好的誘因讓希望學的以及整個年輕朋友可以進到這個體系裡面來第二我們的計職教育裡面的相關的教學設備設備跟師資趕不趕得上時代我知道很多的學校他裡面做的實驗到外面來是接不上的表示我們在設備的更新上是慢了"},{"start":8423.951,"end":8452.316,"text":"那有沒有足夠的師資﹖如果專業的師資不夠﹖業師能不能請進來﹖也增加他的量﹖用經驗來傳承我覺得這都應該馬上下手出去續資好 謝謝院長那在這裡來接下來下一張好問題在這裡重高中輕技資破身一定要生血所以在這裡有一個數據提供給卓院長"},{"start":8454.304,"end":8481.032,"text":"學歷越高 失業越高知道嗎 這個就是技職教育的重要性這個我特別要提供給卓院長 下一張我現在就是要來 大概來考試一下他山之石 台灣要接近 人家好的 我們當然要接近啊好 我們幾例 院長 我們幾例 瑞士"},{"start":8482.301,"end":8508.308,"text":"他是一個獨立國家他是一個很小的國家可是你就從來沒有聽到有勞工抗爭的問題也沒有聽到說他們那邊發生什麼重大罷工的問題沒有但是我在這裡國家有沒有特色當然有特色其他我不談就談勞工這個部分一定這我問你一個瑞士"},{"start":8509.226,"end":8536.58,"text":"他最出名的他的手工技藝你知道是什麼嗎瑞士就是手錶你看看一個瑞士很小的國家你看他可以行銷勞力士也好什麼表也好世界各國可是這些人才他從來沒有中斷過這個叫做什麼他山之石台灣要去借鏡"},{"start":8538.511,"end":8565.967,"text":"台灣要去借鏡好下一張我們看看德國德國你看看平常都沒有什麼聲音但是他有一個好處他什麼好處呢師徒一對一的教導一邊上課一邊工作實習就有薪水畢業就就業他這裡我還要再請教我們卓院長"},{"start":8568.86,"end":8588.127,"text":"什麼東西做得最好汽車對嘛雙B嘛你看到現在是最夠格可是這些人才他有沒有缺乏沒有欸他是跟產業結合來做教育還有做產業的發展所以這個部分我們真的要借鏡好下一張好啦這個我們簡單講過啦完全對岸啦"},{"start":8593.895,"end":8621.146,"text":"雖然他的經濟他的做法政治我們不談但是他對於這些就業的事情他是做得非常到位的非常到位所以我比的就是一些西方國家歐洲然後台灣比較接近的對岸這些都可以值得我們參考好的我們用不好的我們不要用"},{"start":8621.966,"end":8639.756,"text":"那這裡我們也不得不承認我舉例當然也有很多啦那你想一想這麼多的人口他有辦法維繫整個就業市場這個我們當然也要去給他研究來下一張"},{"start":8641.636,"end":8668.457,"text":"所以這很明顯嘛 卓院長我們技職教育的人才是真的不足的啦因為我們政策不重視就不會培養人才所以在這個部分 真的我要拜託卓院長你好好啊 給他升職 叫這個政府委員一個來負責好好研究一個台灣技職教育要不要重新的改變"},{"start":8669.755,"end":8689.308,"text":"以現在的情況來講 都是什麼 紙上談兵 畫餅充雞 完全沒有到位以及跟產業結合 教育結合 來達到真正既知人才的這些花效 沒有"},{"start":8690.747,"end":8715.656,"text":"沒有因為我們針對問題來談嘛教育部有一些策略沒有啦 我不聽啦我要聽左院長的啦不是 政部長剛才跟我回答那個他那個就是你送一個書面給我我有空我讀一讀啦你給我答覆那個就是在打官腔你看看我跟你們談話都很溫和我很柔情的人欸"},{"start":8716.696,"end":8724.321,"text":"但是他給我答話 你看我就馬上放炮他為什麼 不符合我們基層的需求"},{"start":8725.96,"end":8751.104,"text":"因為我們已經20年來計職教育已經失敗在失敗所以我為什麼提出這個問題讓卓院長因為卓院長我也期待你有所對台灣計職教育把它恢復回來這不是哪一個執政的問題這是歷史遺業也就是對於計職教育對於我們產業如何去發展是息息相關的"},{"start":8752.128,"end":8766.109,"text":"好 息息相關所以今天那個經濟部長不需要上來最起碼我要讓卓院長知道這個觀念你才有辦法去指導他們如何去把這個計職教育去把它改變好 下一張"},{"start":8767.722,"end":8785.198,"text":"好啦最主要幾個問題我也提供給我們院長啦齁直言投入啊大小眼齁大小眼這個你們回去檢討所以鄭部長你不要跟我講啊你們有多雄偉的這種雄心抱負你都不要跟我講啦問題現在就很簡單啦"},{"start":8786.826,"end":8807.127,"text":"我們談民進黨執政這8年裡面 技職教育根本就是失敗的我希望我們期待賴總統跟卓院長 領導之下在技職方面有另外一番不一樣的做法跟不一樣的感覺所以在這個部分 資源投入大小園我希望你們趕快改進來下一張"},{"start":8809.994,"end":8819.702,"text":"不符合企業產協合一完全落功這個我也要提供給卓院長好好地去針對這個問題我們大家來商討來 下一張這個重新一樣過去雖然我們對於這個協數的"},{"start":8835.049,"end":8835.449,"text":"會讀書的讀大學"},{"start":8864.144,"end":8887.421,"text":"不太想讀書但是他有技能的就在記職這樣合而為一為才是用這樣的話臺灣的記職教育跟人才的培育才會去成功的所以以上幾點給這個院長去做參考也就是一因應未來的趨勢"},{"start":8890.229,"end":8916.618,"text":"創造良好的就業方針這個應該部長你們也有在做我也看到那另外就是補充阿真的這個教育人才所謂正部長抱歉拜託你做法看下一次我就會讓你好好講到現在為止我也知道你剛接可是以前的部長我對他極度不滿意為什麼聽不進去基層需求的真音只有聽"},{"start":8917.864,"end":8939.458,"text":"政策又失敗當然這個問題就會失敗我希望到立法院來是要聽立法委員以重心長給你的良善建議所以這個部分我希望卓院長那最後一個就是增加記者的教育經費從今年所送來的預算"},{"start":8940.492,"end":8940.953,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":8958.575,"end":8958.635,"text":"主席"},{"start":8974.415,"end":9000.041,"text":"是要做如何的指示他們如何去做 院長可以不可以告訴我好 謝謝委員幾項當中我現在特別要了解是我們對於技職教育的經費跟過去的比較我們有沒有呈現什麼樣的數經費上的不同或是內容上的不同但重要的是我要請教育部做法上要有不同同樣的預算做法上要有不同我一定要聽你的"},{"start":9002.506,"end":9004.229,"text":"因為政部長齁一定一定 純規文件規"},{"start":9015.629,"end":9044.849,"text":"我只拜託你今天聽完我這些建議你認不認同我們技職教育要加強完全認同完全認同而且我們也在加強當中謝謝委員的建議非常好所有三個要改變台灣人才方就是要從這裡走手不是今年做明年就有成果或許是要三年五年你就會看到我希望讓老百姓覺得說"},{"start":9045.969,"end":9070.971,"text":"卓榮泰院長做這個政策還好有他做這個政策就像李國鼎一樣啊聯電跟台積電不是他去做政策的決定怎麼會有今天所以我希望你做這個記者的教育讓人家覺得卓榮泰院長還好有他所以我希望院長責成這些這一個專案然後來"},{"start":9085.312,"end":9087.253,"text":"謝謝林國成委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請陳瑩委員請質詢"},{"start":9129.304,"end":9132.307,"text":"請行政院長請卓院長備詢政委員好"},{"start":9147.373,"end":9171.231,"text":"院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實"},{"start":9173.933,"end":9188.364,"text":"文化健康站、巷弄長照站的兆福園從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這攸關上萬名兆福園的權益"},{"start":9195.229,"end":9222.776,"text":"還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好"},{"start":9223.436,"end":9252.66,"text":"那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分"},{"start":9253.66,"end":9279.415,"text":"因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長那我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長"},{"start":9283.978,"end":9299.09,"text":"還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在時時都沒有調心所以我想"},{"start":9301.352,"end":9325.522,"text":"政府想要提高勞工薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進我相信我們勞動部長"},{"start":9326.783,"end":9350.954,"text":"他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員"},{"start":9352.475,"end":9372.511,"text":"那這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%"},{"start":9373.912,"end":9394.856,"text":"這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意"},{"start":9396.338,"end":9411.706,"text":"好 謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後"},{"start":9413.467,"end":9432.428,"text":"我覺得我們不僅是公務人員 軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據勞動部 剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了"},{"start":9438.495,"end":9451.43,"text":"委員關心我們已經決定在今年11月1號會召開董事會重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%"},{"start":9454.315,"end":9482.668,"text":"從明年1月1號開始對 所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用嘛"},{"start":9483.356,"end":9512.829,"text":"好我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會在一併補足3%好謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團華人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再"},{"start":9513.444,"end":9538.551,"text":"暴阻管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5% 6%之類的因為他是以那個績效導向的所以不同的組織型態他在調薪的部分是"},{"start":9539.113,"end":9565.953,"text":"有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好 這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好 謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回"},{"start":9571.29,"end":9588.327,"text":"這個問題我想大家傷腦筋很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦真的院長這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元"},{"start":9592.851,"end":9607.737,"text":"所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下"},{"start":9608.797,"end":9634.188,"text":"各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了"},{"start":9636.049,"end":9645.177,"text":"所以 主委 這個過去合法禁法補償的經費是不是就像本席所說的循網利辦理對 公務員報告對"},{"start":9646.958,"end":9665.026,"text":"我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何"},{"start":9666.381,"end":9692.354,"text":"跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來補償我們原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因嗎是"},{"start":9693.775,"end":9693.915,"text":"主席"},{"start":9711.92,"end":9712,"text":"主席"},{"start":9726.32,"end":9743.791,"text":"應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了"},{"start":9745.11,"end":9766.675,"text":"這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員"},{"start":9767.898,"end":9784.758,"text":"如果說因為立法院一個審議的決議或是一個建議就把預算給它整個提升行政院沒有導到相同的裁員的話那對行政院的預算的完整性是不合憲法規定的我們是正在這個原則底下但是"},{"start":9787.02,"end":9803.676,"text":"另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠"},{"start":9804.597,"end":9819.108,"text":"由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後"},{"start":9822.233,"end":9823.174,"text":"行政院院長施政報告"},{"start":9838.368,"end":9858.417,"text":"各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受"},{"start":9859.77,"end":9888.081,"text":"好 這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分 園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度"},{"start":9889.441,"end":9904.9,"text":"或者是你們還需要更多的時間在座討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦"},{"start":9905.641,"end":9922.602,"text":"但是我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油"},{"start":9923.91,"end":9944.203,"text":"這個委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民：發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好地來檢討甚至我們好好來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中"},{"start":9945.303,"end":9974.021,"text":"卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是"},{"start":9974.801,"end":9991.995,"text":"如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個"},{"start":9993.516,"end":9995.937,"text":"我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠"},{"start":10018.578,"end":10045.598,"text":"很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方"},{"start":10046.701,"end":10051.434,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才"},{"start":10078.217,"end":10095.52,"text":"現在周不齊都是太早 都沒有說太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周周 把預算補齊我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好不要把這個走預算退回走預算把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面"},{"start":10107.93,"end":10108.13,"text":"主席 謝謝"},{"start":10148.5,"end":10151.321,"text":"首先還是先就叫全民所關心的議題有高達八成的民眾實時是反對廢除實行"},{"start":10174.121,"end":10175.722,"text":"憲法法庭做出的對憲法的解釋他的位階是相當高的"},{"start":10190.731,"end":10210.857,"text":"我要問的是政府能夠接受嗎?現在是應該形成社會的共同標準但在後面有一些相當的多的條件社會的共同標準就是歷次到現在八成以上的民意都是反對廢除實行您認為現在台灣社會有條件廢除實行嗎?"},{"start":10212.924,"end":10239.2,"text":"我還是遵照憲法法庭所說的有條件的合憲在實行這個制度上基本上原則上它是合憲的上午已經有委員也有就教您就是您個人到底是贊成廢除死刑還是反對廢除死刑院長我能不能請教一下因為其實我們也都很想了解我們部會首長大家對於這一個社會大家到高度關心的議題到底態度立場是什麼"},{"start":10241.015,"end":10247.707,"text":"我第一點在憲法法庭這樣的解釋文之後他應該成為一個共同的標準第二點如果要問我我覺得"},{"start":10248.888,"end":10252.17,"text":"所以您到底是贊成廢除死刑還是反對廢除死刑?"},{"start":10279.264,"end":10293.657,"text":"您反對廢除死刑是不是我覺得台灣現在是有死刑是存在的是有死刑存在但是重點是沒有執行啊過去到現在現在尤其民進黨政府上任之後其實執行死刑的狀況非常的少"},{"start":10294.417,"end":10318.337,"text":"而現在在做出這樣的一個和有條件合憲之後的一個判決讓外界質疑在台灣殺人比死刑更容易難道不諷刺嗎尤其大法官還做出了條件解釋要一審二審三審法官都要一致判決變成一票否定制中華民國從上到下所有的制度裡面有那麼嚴苛的制度嗎行政院長"},{"start":10320.123,"end":10342.957,"text":"所以這個憲法法庭要行政院跟立法院合作兩年內要修改相關的很多的法律他不是要我們行政立法合作現在看起來是司法院凌駕行政立法司法院凌駕行政院因為認為是行政院如果說要有任何法官要判處死刑的話全部的這個法官都要同意法務部能夠接受嗎"},{"start":10344.298,"end":10349.633,"text":"法務部過去我們在釋憲法庭的時候所講出來的認為死刑是合憲的有條件嗎"},{"start":10354.733,"end":10376.41,"text":"法務部的立場、死刑有條件嗎?判決死刑是有條件的嗎?我在問的是法務部的立場,不是你尊重憲法法庭法務部的立場是什麼?判決死刑有沒有條件?有沒有要一審、二審、三審法官都一定要定宴都一定要一致的判決才能夠判決死刑?有沒有?"},{"start":10377.236,"end":10382.6,"text":"立法委員在過去所有世界民主國家裡面﹐死刑都是立法權來做決定﹐來定立﹐可是今天是司法院凌駕行政跟立法院"},{"start":10402.861,"end":10423.152,"text":"院長我再請教現在有37名死刑犯是已經三審定業其中最長的死刑犯24年已經定業24年1999年判決死刑到現在24年還沒有執行現在既然有條件核限該不該執行"},{"start":10425.609,"end":10427.59,"text":"法務部該不該執行?我們是在依法處理37位是不是都可以非常上訴?"},{"start":10454.019,"end":10454.239,"text":"所以院長"},{"start":10481.138,"end":10504.851,"text":"我再拉回來我們這兩年上一屆一直在討論的是所謂國民法官法國民法官制度但是今天大法官判決出來之後所謂的憲法法庭要求一致性的判決未來國民法官的案件即便是六名國民法官都同意他要判處死刑但只要有一名職業法官反對是不是就沒有辦法判處死刑"},{"start":10505.745,"end":10506.205,"text":"現在就是要跟您確認這個議題嘛"},{"start":10534.688,"end":10551.246,"text":"六名國民法官如果說一致都判處死刑但只要一名職業法官不同意他就沒有辦法判處死刑那是不是就是一個漏洞是不是就是大法官解釋之後沒有辦法形成的後續的漏洞有可能變成是殺人犯或者是罪大惡行者的一個犯罪空間逃脫條款"},{"start":10553.598,"end":10571.686,"text":"這是法院指出應該處理的問題所以行政院您的態度是什麼會修法所以會提出行政院的版本修法是不是我只確認會提出行政院版本修法把這個漏洞給補齊是這樣嗎"},{"start":10575.211,"end":10595.177,"text":"這個法院主管的機關是司法院那這部分他們修法會跟行政院會選那我們法務部的話我們會提出我們的建議意見你的意見是什麼要修正這個漏洞要不要修正這個漏洞我現在就問那麼簡單院長我還有很多問題是不是請院長回答好不好"},{"start":10595.799,"end":10622.288,"text":"院長您的行政院版本會怎麼出來會不會修正這個漏洞剛剛部長說過法院組織法的調整這個是司法院的職權啊司法院的職權但我們認為可以討論的是如何將來在執行上它是可行的這個可行也要符合到社會大家共同的標準跟價值就是本席點出來大法官的視線就是跟我們八成以上民意背道而馳這樣變成是已經實質廢死"},{"start":10624.65,"end":10625.89,"text":"委員我很負責的能跟委員說明現在法庭所說的這個解釋不是廢死"},{"start":10654.557,"end":10655.097,"text":"以人為先團結合作"},{"start":10674.3,"end":10685.44,"text":"團結合作以人為先我想我們都同意但重點是團結不是只有你的團結是團結在野黨的團結也是團結全民的團結是團結所以凝聚共識非常重要"},{"start":10686.571,"end":10708.869,"text":"我們想請教當然國家的團結國家的方向一起走阿那我想請教上禮拜禮拜五晚上說賴清德總統宴請民進黨籍的立委那並且轉述之後賴總統說總預算被退回很罕見所以要求民進黨團要求韓院長要進行朝野協商那本席也想請教賴總統從當選總統到現在9個月的時間了沒有跟在野黨"},{"start":10714.417,"end":10724.585,"text":"包括國民黨團包括民眾黨團有任何的想要溝通的一個方向或是想要溝通的一個表示是不是這也很罕見"},{"start":10725.694,"end":10726.374,"text":"總統尊重五院體制的憲法結構"},{"start":10751.886,"end":10753.827,"text":"委員長,我可以請教,您剛剛進來的時候有接受媒體採訪,你也講是說希望朝野進一步溝通,那這個責任在誰身上?"},{"start":10775.182,"end":10795.856,"text":"我希望我跟韓院長也能夠溝通是 少野黨團也能夠繼續溝通那還有包括行政部門跟立法部門溝通以及現在最重要是總統執政團隊執政黨跟在野黨的溝通不是嗎那如果院跟院之間的溝通不良或是有任何的重大事件發生那我似乎總統是可以依照憲法啟動院際協商那這個不輕易的啟動"},{"start":10798.658,"end":10799.358,"text":"總統自由判斷我們完全聽到而且願意"},{"start":10820.157,"end":10821.078,"text":"蔡英文總統 馬英九總統 陳水扁總統 都有這樣的動作"},{"start":10835.475,"end":10853.253,"text":"您自己的了解總統不願意做這樣動作的原因是什麼總統沒有不願意他自有判斷在什麼時機用什麼方式所以您覺得您也不願意跟總統建議說是不是應該也可以跟在野黨來互相的溝通甚至如果說邀請在野黨來做這個所謂的這個國事會議"},{"start":10854.389,"end":10881.149,"text":"來做一個國事溝通我相信在野黨應該都很樂意委員的這幾話總統一定聽得到不用我建議總統一定聽到大院委員的建議他都非常重視好那所以您說總統現在在看我們立院的直播就對了我現在沒看他也沒看到報導那我們來看一下那我想請教院長來院長之前我們行政院江怡化前院長他也在上任的時候表態說要拜會在野黨的領袖當時民進黨的主席是蘇貞昌"},{"start":10882.47,"end":10903.485,"text":"雖然到最後沒有促成,但是我也想請教您個人的意願呢?總統拜會在野黨領袖嗎?不是,行政院啊,您現在是行政院長,除非您想要當總統,否則我現在講的是行政院長表態要拜會在野黨領袖啊,那現在您也從520上任到現在也已經4個多月了嘛,您自己有沒有這種打算?"},{"start":10904.524,"end":10920.122,"text":"既然國民黨跟在野黨跟執政黨好像現在溝通上那您本身願不願意來拜會在野黨的領袖我現在的工作還是比較適宜跟韓院長還有其他的院長我們來做溝通那各黨的主席"},{"start":10922.705,"end":10942.705,"text":"韓議員"},{"start":10942.705,"end":10945.406,"text":"大法官人士連綠營內部都已經有罵聲黨籍立委哀嚎拍出力"},{"start":10972.247,"end":10996.947,"text":"有這件事嗎那我希望因為這個是總統府的作業啦總統府的作業是那我也希望說我想請教上禮拜五你們一起座談因為民進黨上任8年以來找所謂的立委溝通都是找民進黨籍的立委從來沒找過這樣的黨籍立委不過沒關係我尊重你們的做法但重點是黨籍立委連人事也有意見了"},{"start":10997.788,"end":11015.84,"text":"那你現在人事你也不溝通你們沒有跟你們自己內部民進黨的立委溝通你也不找在野黨立委溝通那你們到底要溝通什麼這個在你認為之後的人事會很順利的通過嗎不管NCC不管考試委員不管大法官你認為會很順利的通過嗎他自然會有黨的祕書總統府祕書長"},{"start":11018.722,"end":11044.486,"text":"帶著這幾位被提名人：到各黨團做正式的拜託：讓大家互相的認識這個是絕對會做到的那我也希望大家能夠衝過去瞭解個人的背後的立場跟過去的學經歷院長說實在話要溝通拿出誠意不要什麼事情面對到在野黨的合理的監督的時候就推給韓院長韓院長已經是我們最看到最公平的工作人員了"},{"start":11045.319,"end":11067.363,"text":"但是不要每一次溝通不順的時候韓院長草野協商那如果說你們要你們通過你們的法案的時候你們就是下達軍令狀要求你們黨籍立委團進團出來投票報告我剛剛在談話當中沒有這種意思說韓院長溝通不良沒有 我絕對沒有這種意思院長想請教人事的部分內閣團隊有沒有溝通不良的狀況 內部"},{"start":11072.555,"end":11099.647,"text":"一開始我承認有那漸漸的到現在為止互相都知道彼此的工作的角色要怎麼扮演而且有充分的合作所以已經從一開始上路KK到現在比較順暢當然是比較順暢那邱太元部長跟我們環境部部長這是怎麼回事這剛剛上個月我也有推出過我知道啊但是我現在只有看到你人前手牽手啊但背後怎麼樣下一句我就不講了"},{"start":11101.401,"end":11101.521,"text":"總統罵彭部長"},{"start":11130.363,"end":11138.491,"text":"是你自己有聽到總統告訴你還是別人轉述跟你說我只是說總統罵在討論的當中這個我完全沒有跟總統有互動過你沒有跟總統有互動過所以是彭部長告訴你說總統罵他"},{"start":11149.321,"end":11154.782,"text":"所以是彭部長告訴你總統打給他嗎?邱部長 聽本席的問題本席是說是 你說總統打給邱部 欸 彭部長是彭部長告訴你 總統打給他來 彭部長接到總統的電話 有沒有第一時間跟卓院長報告"},{"start":11173.993,"end":11199.998,"text":"有其實我跟總統跟卓院長我們都常常在討論這個淨零減碳的事情所以這個議院的部分其實院長也很所以總統確實已經不只一次打給你要求你做相關淨零減碳的政策沒有其實我們在你剛說不實打電話現在又說沒有不是就是我們在這個總統有國家氣候變遷對策委員會我們行政院會先報告完然後到國家氣候變遷委員會裡面去討論所以這個討論的議題在這個裡面都有在裡面"},{"start":11203.672,"end":11203.692,"text":"院長"},{"start":11219.471,"end":11245.997,"text":"行政院院長你們的老闆說實在你們的領導人是行政院院長你們的任命權也是行政院院長任命的那一樣啊總統今天他貴為我們中華民國的元首他可以私下打電話給你跟你講一個政策還要你補貼相關的醫療院所這是不是已經介入到了行政體制報告委員我現在再請教彭部長報告委員其實我每天都接到"},{"start":11246.761,"end":11266.138,"text":"公總 商總 各式各樣對淨寧檢探的關心喔那個是關心阿 但你不一定做嘛但今天是總統打電話來阿總統打電話來你可以不做嗎而且我剛剛就請教的是說你有沒有第一時間接到總統電話之後你跟卓院長報告還是總統跟卓院長說了卓院長跟你指示"},{"start":11267.078,"end":11278.772,"text":"這是體制的問題你懂我意思嗎我們體制上我們跟院長都是在一起的我們每個禮拜沒有在一起因為卓院長剛剛已經承認了他說這件事件是他看了新聞才知道"},{"start":11279.997,"end":11303.7,"text":"所以換言之你沒有主動跟卓院長報告我剛看了新聞才知道是說 邱部長講的那句話我看了新聞才知道對啊他講的那句話我看了新聞才知道他講說總統罵彭部長對他講這句話我看新聞才知道報告委員喔我其實這件事情來院長我兩句話就好了院長我一個結論啦這件事情其實是說實在的話你們幾個部會首長自己私下的溝通但重點我要凸顯是什麼"},{"start":11304.721,"end":11304.741,"text":"兩句話對應"},{"start":11328.616,"end":11355.05,"text":"希望總統能夠做相關的責任政治的報告兩句話跟委員報告那我們現在在講部長也好我也好跟總統都會有公開或是固定在私底下見面的時間都會有沒錯嘛我現在講的就是說打電話指示我會跟總統談說這不嚴重我跟總統會談說院長你要這樣唾棉自乾我沒有辦法但是重點在於是今天如果說你跟總統是不同調的話那總統是跳過你指示"},{"start":11355.99,"end":11357.35,"text":"第一 碳肺基金要不要趕快訂立"},{"start":11384.895,"end":11407.77,"text":"本來應該是今年上半年度就出來但到目前為止還沒有出來基金的運用有沒有規則可循?絕對有我覺得各部會今天私下打電話我要五毛我要一塊那部長這邊就可以來做這個小金庫那這樣完全不對所以是不是應該要法制化作業?"},{"start":11409.568,"end":11409.948,"text":"總預算的部分"},{"start":11439.249,"end":11458.286,"text":"我們看最先進民主國家美國美國從1974年到2023年他們全國家的總預算真正能夠在預設時間通過的49年49次裡面有幾次 院長知道嗎"},{"start":11461.125,"end":11466.048,"text":"只有4次美國成熟民主國家他們在總預算預設時間可以通過49次裡面只有4次"},{"start":11474.96,"end":11501.977,"text":"立法院上禮拜五確實我們做出一個決議是大家投票通過是退回行政院所提出來的總預算這是明年最主要幾個原因第一2016年馬政府最後一年的時候全國的總預算是一兆九千多億但是過去民進黨八年執政之後尤其賴清德總統的第一年預算居然高砸史上破天荒的三兆這是創歷史新高"},{"start":11503.962,"end":11524.98,"text":"我們也認為說裡面有一些預算因編列沒編列 剛編列沒編列是不是應該要做調整以及第三 有一些預算明顯就已經有服編或是服報的狀況包括說宣傳費用大漲的部分我們也請行政部門是不是能夠算盤來再做一個檢討或討論其實站在角度是什麼"},{"start":11525.64,"end":11537.75,"text":"就是為人民把關嘛我的原則很簡單預算當用則用當審則審你可以問一下每一個部會如果說來我辦公室的只要他們來我說為中華民國做事為台灣2350萬人做事我預算絕對不會刁難"},{"start":11540.692,"end":11563.729,"text":"但是如果說沒有而是用政治意識形態或是讓我覺得是說你們有浮邊爛邊的狀況很抱歉我們不會手軟但現在退回預算其實只要行政部馬上調整再送進來我們來做檢視都可以進入到立法院再做實質的討論因為進入到委員會立法委員只能刪減預算只能凍結預算不能增加預算"},{"start":11564.829,"end":11584.315,"text":"這點院長你也很清楚啊所以我們現在退回總預算我現在要請教我們現在退回總預算之後行政部門有沒有打算調整預算有沒有打算所以你沒有打算要沒有打算任何的調整院長我可以直接確認一下院長我只要確認一件事情院長我確認一件事情"},{"start":11592.782,"end":11604.253,"text":"行政院這次編列史上最高3兆元預算我們現在退回我們也說只要行政部門趕快再重新審議編列都可以再送進來而且更重要的是預算法54條裡面有規定"},{"start":11606.391,"end":11624.526,"text":"一般性的費用人事費用補償費用補貼費用一般性例行計畫是不受預算的這個審查的限制換言之就是即便我們到12月底以前沒有通過明年的總預算但是明年1月一樣該發的薪水會發該補貼的這個計畫會補貼例行的計畫會照走"},{"start":11631.251,"end":11631.892,"text":"行政院知道"},{"start":11654.656,"end":11683.012,"text":"一般的預算我們可以執行但是我們不會因此而怠惰跟立法院的溝通第二點 很多的新增預算代表我們下一個年度政府的政策 新增預算就無法執行政府大開表步向前走的速度就會慢以人為本 團結合作你的團結就變成是說我說的才算啊我們現在認為是說你應該要去重新調整不要 我不要調整"},{"start":11683.874,"end":11699.58,"text":"我就是不要調整山上那麼多我不要調整在實質審查都可以達到這樣的功能我只是請教一件事是不是就是您的態度不會調整我們就繼續溝通希望那個禁訴復違之後呢大院就實質審查詳細審查我們誠意的溝通跟說明"},{"start":11703.635,"end":11732.342,"text":"卓院長丟一個難題給你他完全不退讓完全鐵板一塊但是就要求立法院長做超越協商這就是現在民進黨政府執政下的嘴臉我是維護行政院預算權的完整性宣傳大增尤其去年宣傳費用9億200多萬我其實認為這已經比馬政府時代的時候又多編了很多那我一直強調我相信卓院長應該也認同"},{"start":11734.011,"end":11755.104,"text":"做得好 大家會幫你倒選團不用你自己自誇自擂自吹但如果做不好 只想要粉飾太平的話 民眾沒有辦法接受那今年 全中央部會總預算高達14億9千多萬 將近15億暴增了5億9千萬我想請教 宣傳費用 多了5億多6億剛我這個需要"},{"start":11757.961,"end":11773.621,"text":"報告委員 去年的9億多是去年 網路我甚至沒有講說網訊喔但我想是說 電視這一些相關的部分即便 您有講到 只增加了3億多3億多不是錢嗎"},{"start":11775.152,"end":11799.157,"text":"3億多可以有多少營養午餐3億多能夠有多少學童補助這難道不是費用嗎為什麼要增加那麼多3億多裡面內政部因為打詐相關打詐2.3億院長你就講打詐我就來討論打詐昨天的新聞101董作他講什麼他說廖恆化有種不要下架他要下架什麼"},{"start":11801.201,"end":11819.502,"text":"他要下架詐騙集團假冒他的名字的網路廣告我們看下一張我們已經打詐三法通過了打詐五法通過了昨天 賈詠潔都還在他個人臉書上又在貼講說現在有詐騙集團冒他的名做這樣的一個詐騙廣告我說實在話"},{"start":11822.642,"end":11830.188,"text":"我們編列5億10億的預算去宣傳打詐底不上一個賈詠潔她在臉書上發一篇她又被詐騙的文"},{"start":11831.838,"end":11849.832,"text":"為什麽 因為這代表是說 國人業在在來上 你要執法權利 我們給你執法權利 你要執法空間 給你執法空間 但是 到目前為止 這樣的詐騙廣告還是層出不窮啊但你好好意思講是說 我的詐騙 打詐的宣傳要增加 從原本的1400多萬 變成兩億三千萬 增加將近20倍"},{"start":11854.891,"end":11857.793,"text":"所以蔡英文政府說不希望嗎來 院長我再來跟你討論本期的選區啊淡水"},{"start":11883.151,"end":11884.352,"text":"院長請問知道這個事情嗎"},{"start":11897.957,"end":11925.045,"text":"這個牽扯到治安甚至是國安的問題我覺得這個要整體的規劃整體的規劃才能產生出一個一個是主委說要6000名志工一個海巡署馬上出來講說沒有規定完全沒有6000名海巡志工這件事我們也不瞭解這個新聞怎麼來的所以管碧玲主委表示沒有 完全沒有那這個新聞是假新聞囉不知道 連署長都不知道沒有任何人知道這個新聞怎麼來的那要不要跟這個媒體來提告"},{"start":11926.045,"end":11953.89,"text":"我們沒有提告但是我們有澄清但是6000名海巡志工完全沒有人聽錯院長那我只請教因為我們發生事情之後我還是想叫我們各同防護海巡我們也各同支持海巡那今年海巡有編列了1億的紅外線的相關的建置計畫太少了1億太少了是但是至少我們在所謂的紅色海灘裡面你要建置吧到目前為止18座紅色海灘我們建置了幾處"},{"start":11955.106,"end":11959.712,"text":"但是至少本席講到的本席的淡水以及林口這兩個紅色海灘也是我們之前國防部所規劃的都沒有建置阿"},{"start":11998.334,"end":12015.252,"text":"好謝謝洪孟凱委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長的備詢謝謝報告院會我們上午的質詢到此為止我們下午2點30分繼續開會進行施政報告質詢現在休息謝謝大家"},{"start":21607.807,"end":21609.408,"text":"現在我們繼續開會進行施政報告質詢接下來我們請黃秀芳委員請質詢謝謝院長我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21645.916,"end":21646.1,"text":"網友好"},{"start":21646.943,"end":21673.505,"text":"院長好 院長剛剛在12點左右立法院的程序委員會又將114年度的中央政府總預算退回程序委員會那我想請教就是說其實在今年8月份的時候總統有到彰化去訪視地方的社福機構那當時國民黨執政的彰化縣長王惠美王縣長也在現場跟賴總統提出"},{"start":21676.867,"end":21702.132,"text":"章化縣有很多社福機構有需要中央這邊的幫忙尤其有五棟的社福大樓需要中央盡速合撥當場賴總統也有答應只要立法院的預算通過之後應該就可以很快速的中央的預算就會撥到地方來"},{"start":21703.472,"end":21728.294,"text":"現在我們看到這個中央政府的總預算又被退回程序委員會我覺得這應該是有史以來第一次那我當了立委第三屆我也是碰到第一次在預算會期應該是要審預算的結果是沒有預算可以審那我想請教這個院長你針對這一件事未來這個是影響的不只是這個執政"},{"start":21729.975,"end":21756.838,"text":"不是只有影響民進黨影響的是全台灣人民我們看到不只是社府的預算受到影響教育的預算然後我們也看到要給學子的住宿的補貼還有我們中低收入戶的補貼我看到這影響的層面真的非常的大國防預算也會受到影響那我想請院長針對這件事那未來我們行政院要怎麼應應"},{"start":21757.892,"end":21783.359,"text":"好謝謝委員我還是誠摯的希望大家能夠心平氣和理性的去看待整部的預算這預算裡面他縱然他有很多的人事跟一般的法定支出我們還是可以依法來執行但是重點在於一些新增的業務如果沒有預算通過的話是沒有辦法實施的那我願意很誠意的說明就是無論"},{"start":21784.321,"end":21804.506,"text":"是中央定的任何政策或是未來跟地方要合作的任何的預算包括我們的一般性的補助以及統籌補助等等我都認為這個是中央預算的一個整體不會割裂說是因為地方的我們就比較不在意因為中央的我們就比較在著急不會是整個一體"},{"start":21805.166,"end":21825.791,"text":"希望用中央整理中央預算的總預算的完整性交付給大院來審議所以在目前這個程序而言我仍然是希望說程序委員會能夠盡快的復為施之審查審查的過程當中我們據理說明清楚那麼有任何刪減的意見大家可以來好好的討論我們都予以尊重"},{"start":21827.351,"end":21842.357,"text":"我認為中央政府總預算影響的是全台灣人民當然就以我是區域立委來講我當然是希望中央補助地方的經費能夠儘速快速到達"},{"start":21843.237,"end":21867.642,"text":"那當然如果說這個中央的預算在立法院在第一關程序委員會就被擋掉那很難就是中央的這個挹注很難挹注到地方這個尤其是挹注地方的這個建設所以我們也希望就是說不論是在野黨所有的立委應該也要去審思因為這個影響的是全臺灣人民那尤其是這個地方政府的話"},{"start":21868.402,"end":21868.782,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":21885.234,"end":21911.816,"text":"網路上面市場會看到名人詐騙就是在網路上面就是說他可能這個投資啊然後就可以賺蠻多錢的那很多人是因為看到這樣子的一個廣告然後就做這樣的一個投資那我們也看到速發部可能在最近有這個打詐就是我行政院這邊相關部會也都很認真就是這個打詐的部分那我想請教就是說"},{"start":21912.577,"end":21914.538,"text":"目前是不是還有類似就是名人"},{"start":21933.147,"end":21934.85,"text":"實名制刊登廣告的成效如何?"},{"start":21945.59,"end":21964.159,"text":"我不敢否認還是有那過去我們是對於這些平台毫無力道可以作為那在打仗新法通過之後我們至少要求他下架下架就可以納管納管就必須會有責任我們就有源頭可以追溯所以目前在尋這個管道跟方式來"},{"start":21964.699,"end":21992.91,"text":"那對於若干的這種利用名人打詐 詐欺的這個狀況我們已經破獲了不少那麼也請一些受害的名人出來現身說法但是這個事情還是會出現那我們現在要求的就是出現之後用最短的速度讓他能夠下架同時追溯到源頭所以我們現在有一個打詐的平台等等不管是165打詐中心或是這個平台都提供了這樣的管道跟方式"},{"start":21993.47,"end":22016.313,"text":"那確實是24小時下架嗎或發現在網路上有這樣的一個詐騙的一個廣告目前我們通知Facebook或者是Line通常都會在24小時之內下架那委員所提到的24小時下架的這個應該是指的是我們最近速發部公布的打詐專法的執法我們這裡面有規定說如果我們通知了這些"},{"start":22016.893,"end":22017.373,"text":"刊登廣告應該使用實名制"},{"start":22038.88,"end":22050.272,"text":"要不然其實這個詐騙的廣告真的非常的多而且影響受騙的人真的非常的廣所以我們希望說這個打詐的這部分我們應該還要再努力"},{"start":22051.186,"end":22051.647,"text":"臺中捷運綠線延伸到彰化"},{"start":22071.188,"end":22085.54,"text":"當時交通部李前部長也有特別提到我們預計在今年年底應該整個綜合規劃會完成我想請教因為從5月份到現在也又經過了將近4個月的時間"},{"start":22088.823,"end":22107.894,"text":"因為民眾引頸期盼的彰化非常重要的軌道建設這兩個軌道建設已經講了非常久而且在今年我已經第三次來質詢我們的院長一個是這個第一會期第一次是質詢我們陳建仁院長那5月份我是"},{"start":22108.314,"end":22111.096,"text":"指詢卓院長和陳部長針對彰化非常重要的軌道建設進度如何"},{"start":22123.564,"end":22124.285,"text":"提出分擔金額﹑預算"},{"start":22143.026,"end":22167.518,"text":"捷運綠線可能要分擔到67億﹖鐵路高架可能就103億左右﹖其實對地方政府來講﹖這個負擔真的非常的重﹖所以我想請教﹖如果說中央政府﹖如果跟地方政府﹖可以同心一起的話﹖我認為﹖卓院長你也認為﹖軌道建設對地方來講﹖真的是非常的重要﹖"},{"start":22168.038,"end":22192.83,"text":"不論是運輸或者是觀光對地方政府整體的發展真的非常的重要所以我想再一次的請卓院長針對我們彰化的這兩個軌道建設那未來中央跟地方要如何來合作那競速如果是在年底綜合規劃可以完成的話那如何來加速我們鐵路高架的進行"},{"start":22194.362,"end":22219.214,"text":"捷運綠線道彰化以及這個鐵道的高架化最新的進度這陳部長應該有所掌握請他跟委員報告先說跟委員報告這個鐵路高架化的部分目前已經進入綜合規劃的階段那環評也正在進行當中我們針對花壇跟二水的這兩個基地目前設定好是雙基地也跟地方政府也都協商好所以這個部分是沒有問題"},{"start":22220.354,"end":22246.914,"text":"加速進行的部分委員也一直在關心所以交通部這邊會竭盡所能的來協助這個地方政府在針對這個綜合規劃的部分我們盡量盡快來加速這個部分是沒有問題我們盡快來推動那如果中間還有什麼疑義的話包含經費的部分其實我們跟地方會持續來協商這個沒有問題那到時候也會拜託委員也幫忙溝通那另外針對捷運的部分其實捷運的綠線目前是由台中市政府在做這個綜合規劃的階段"},{"start":22248.795,"end":22277.603,"text":"這個部分是沒有問題但是就是說彰化的這一段比較往南的這一段因為牽涉到這個彰東的這個都市計畫那我們希望這個縣政府能夠在都市計畫的部分能夠具體一點讓我們知道說整個路線他到時候的落站點會是在哪裡因為這還要都市計畫所以土地的規劃還沒有確定那這個部分還在等彰化縣政府不過這個部分交通部也會出面來協助臺中市政府跟彰化縣政府之間的溝通我知道委員很關心所以地方也很期待"},{"start":22278.343,"end":22305.063,"text":"所以這個部分我們會盡量來推動加速的計畫我要再次提這兩個軌道建設真的是非常非常久從我當議員到現在將近已經20年的時間這兩個從一開始就在講彰化要鐵路高架台中捷運綠線要到彰化來結果到現在還在綜合規劃那我不知道說未來我要怎麼跟我的地區的民眾講說"},{"start":22306.684,"end":22321.825,"text":"未來經過幾年之後還在綜合規劃所以我希望說這個卓院長我也覺得你是一個行動派的院長我們希望彰化的軌道建設對彰化整個都市的發展非常非常的重要而且"},{"start":22323.287,"end":22336.086,"text":"張化是六都以外人口最多的一個地方那張化可不可以發展其實有關於這兩個軌道建設如果可以做好的話其實可以帶動整個張化的都市的成長"},{"start":22337.868,"end":22361.583,"text":"章化也是整個中小企業非常多的地方整個中部地區中小企業最多也是在章化所以我希望卓院長你的關愛的眼神是不是可以投注在章化多一點進速將這兩個軌道建設能夠如果今年年底綜合規劃可以完成之後那是不是可以中央跟地方合作加速推動這兩個軌道建設的進行"},{"start":22363.643,"end":22384.963,"text":"好 我們本於這個均衡台灣的理念各地的重大化建設都是非常重要的剛剛陳部長所說的這個希望地方政府跟我們必須的合作包括這個有三個戰體它周邊的開發以及財務的計畫經費的分擔等等都希望地方政府能夠緊縮的有一個說法跟規劃出來才好進行到下一波的綜合規劃"},{"start":22385.592,"end":22411.332,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來我想請教就是說我們在前幾年行政院這邊都有一些專案針對學校的專案不論是這個斑斑有冷氣或者是深深有用平板那我也知道就是說之前行政院這邊教育部這邊也有針對學校的PU跑道或者是老舊廁所老舊校舍都有專案這樣的一個補助地方"},{"start":22411.812,"end":22412.172,"text":"張嬅教授"},{"start":22431.408,"end":22451.833,"text":"教育部在去年一年當中只有編列4千萬左右讓全台灣的國中國小來改善老舊的廁所其實全台灣只有4千萬真的非常的不夠我記得是去年的時候彰化這邊才分到幾間"},{"start":22454.154,"end":22478.135,"text":"尤其是在我的選區裡面其實針對這個老舊廁所會影響到整個學生或者是老師的這個身體健康真的影響非常的大那我想請教就是說未來我們行政院這邊會不會針對我們這些老舊廁所會有什麼樣的專案然後來挹注地方建設"},{"start":22479.445,"end":22502.475,"text":"我請部長先說明一下公立國民中小學老舊廁所的改建計畫謝謝委員關心事實上從105年到113年我們投入從行政院他用專案的一個改善老舊廁所投入了83.5億那整個做了一個改善總共有這一個3639棟那事實上這一個我們"},{"start":22509.043,"end":22532.793,"text":"中小學這裡邊每年的邊的有關這個建築物這一些硬體設備譬如說瓷磚掉落或者地平包括廁所我們實際上是邊列這個2億多但是以全國的這老舊叫這個廁所的改善確實是在整個年度的預算是比較不夠的但是也非常感謝行政院院長事實上看到了這一個問題他也這一個"},{"start":22536.628,"end":22550.179,"text":"對歷年的這個 全國的中小學的老舊教室也已經有都裝潢在編列來改善那我是不是可以麻煩院長針對我們所有全台灣的這些老舊的廁所"},{"start":22575.29,"end":22575.41,"text":"謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":22615.534,"end":22641.736,"text":"主席我來請議長一下麻煩再請主委委員長備選議長今天比較輕鬆市委員好我來代表台南市的農業民送你一個東西拜託你他們希望你替我們台南市的農業產品多多推廣"},{"start":22644.38,"end":22646.781,"text":"這我告訴你,這今天熱情點要喝過,別人都不喝過"},{"start":22678.643,"end":22700.111,"text":"來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":22724.051,"end":22749.147,"text":"非常甜蜜這是台南市山頂壓星的盤壁真的烹飪跟農民、漁民經濟不好希望一定你的官邸可以多多為中南部這些農業產品推廣選一些最大的氣氛"},{"start":22751.158,"end":22760.583,"text":"加一些探訪會最多這是農曆民希望我在這提供表達他們真無奈的心聲蕊哥啊是你在打捏請像一個家庭一樣人家說家和伴屬親"},{"start":22779.465,"end":22780.766,"text":"他不是這種人這我們很清楚"},{"start":22810.97,"end":22837.882,"text":"在那不是老總統的意思嘛在你﹐也不是你委員長的意思啊齁?這樣算什麼意思?就自己三八個懸揮啊我今天訂陳時中﹐對我有什麼幫忙?突然你跟老清廷有交情這樣齁?沒有啦,他們這裡來的﹐什麼人的交情比我們倆的關係好嗎?委員好"},{"start":22841.243,"end":22857.949,"text":"沒有啦,我們倆的背後,我們倆的牽絲穿著背後啦除了你們副委長以外,可能沒有人比我們倆的牽絲好我講的你可能聽得懂啦所以何必在那裡,在鳳堤民燈前,在清唱意思是什麼?總統有感冒過,你不很清"},{"start":22865.97,"end":22878.82,"text":"我希望這件事不要再發生了是 這絕對要再發生這就會改變 會影響到你呢對 這一定要請內閣委員可以真的謹修自己這個分寸對政策清清楚楚感受出來我們的戰鬥機 發生各種非英文挑機對不對 這件事你知道嗎是"},{"start":22895.779,"end":22896.839,"text":"委員長施政報告．第1次會議．第2次會議"},{"start":22922.313,"end":22935.566,"text":"委員報告這件事在處理的那些東西 最快的時間來都有掌握到它的狀況我是說我愛想...我們要尊重第一層 機會關 跟工作的這個...沒有啦 不要再尊重了啦你給我應付這個也沒意思嘛 我跟你說 總比的檢查要怎麼落實啊"},{"start":22947.366,"end":22962.554,"text":"你不一定知道,我們訓練一個肥胸丸,到他成為一個合計的肥胸丸,我們都要花多少錢這要用經費來算,那不得了,但是我覺得那是有價的實際的經費,以美金給我們的標準,我們訓練一個合計的肥胸丸,合理說差不多在那550萬、780萬的美金嘛等於說我們開啟他的新股定價,到他可以買"},{"start":22978.122,"end":22986.746,"text":"應該是差不多在那1億6千萬至1億8千萬不然我講這樣說不對所以會議員救起來那時候大家心裡都覺得很安慰都覺得很安慰所以我們尊重第一線 工作我們開這麼多錢去訓練一個合計的會議員目的是什麼是要保護我們的國家嘛 修復經濟結果他下去 救到不得不遲"},{"start":23006.345,"end":23014.829,"text":"那是全國際都是給我們浪費的,臭的這部長有說明一下嗎部長我請教你,要怎麼挽救?這是裝備兼職要怎麼落實?我們有六台直升機有夜間搜救的能力,所以我們的這個能力是有,但是委員講的就是說"},{"start":23031.348,"end":23036.03,"text":"所以我剛才在跟你說醫藥對裝備檢測要怎麼落實對不對對,裝備的妥善率這真的是要減少改進"},{"start":23058.735,"end":23080.047,"text":"我告訴你不要緊張 因為現在兩方很緊張嘛我們每一個總編在來都不簡單 都發生了很多事嘛你如果好好檢查 維修你看看那是大老人 你要收罪嗎 你覺得要收罪那老人在12月聽就對了"},{"start":23082.341,"end":23093.353,"text":"他的跳繩有一個環在裡面的土地海水不是陰溼的,都是熄溫溼的大家互相勉勵,我是覺得這很重要總比的檢測如果沒有落實這件事大家已經看了兩百年了,潘石居自己執政了"},{"start":23102.834,"end":23117.063,"text":"感謝委員的提起這一定是未來要加強總比 妥妥善這個工作一定要加強下去 我剛才跟你答應要給台灣的鄉親放心啦我們的弟兄姊妹在這裡處理很努力現在又落在一邊 很難看啦 不用我放心給專民放心 好不好"},{"start":23131.203,"end":23134.625,"text":"總比檢測要落實這我沒便宜 隨時會發生因為我們有訓練"},{"start":23143.044,"end":23159.472,"text":"簽入中選 入席我們的訓練領隊就入席入席 議會就發聲再發聲 再處理 再背 再拉起來那時候就犯規了 好不好來 你說我們跟海巡的那個合作不是這麼密切啦市長 這個事情啦齁大法官 真偉大大法官 憤怨的解說"},{"start":23173.499,"end":23187.631,"text":"什麼叫憲法的解釋我們的憲法是不是某款憲法啊 議長當然 現在是某款的體制但是我為什麼侵犯立法院的規則在18小時內我在這裡公開"},{"start":23198.666,"end":23204.148,"text":"施行合憲這叫作不動的心理啦因落中就是要說施行是危險的打你的好朋友 老總統請電那一隻起來說這要聽民意"},{"start":23227.029,"end":23240.336,"text":"有夠好 他們真的是政運中的政運 但坦白說先跟你說施行 合憲 後來改水 外來外去 外出 外來外去改水又不搭不齊就要3、4、10月的法官都同意 一個沒同意 不能放 按照他的改水 沒一個會死"},{"start":23252.782,"end":23273.498,"text":"所以臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝煮私營臺灣要做什麼?後來要煎豚肉 後來要煎魚 煎刺身 不好這台法官要面對人民的可憐現在來解說以後 教育解說以後就換到你們了喔這私營37個私營份啦齁破頂的 當機時我們是依照什麼"},{"start":23283.164,"end":23298.556,"text":"施政法案第148條第1項繼續收容收容有沒有期限收容是沒有期限沒有期限嘛因為它是待執行的執行的對對對 收容是沒有因為要等10天嘛好不好那這樣"},{"start":23307.578,"end":23312.362,"text":"這個37的死刑犯就是由最高檢察署來做一個審核這個要看那個個案這個有可能"},{"start":23336.598,"end":23337.018,"text":"發言委員：完整會議"},{"start":23366.425,"end":23373.108,"text":"所以您是說希望建議 繼續 歡迎 繼續 給我這個檢察會建立法院要繼續來擠壓啊歡迎啦 沒同意的 他們就放手這樣"},{"start":23388.092,"end":23400.317,"text":"委員報告這事是不是發回 發回也做什麼破罪 裁定一半一半所謂的問題 你也說一半一半這三張 這些人都是極凶惡之徒 但是在大法國的改正就說他們不地勢大法國就是這樣想的"},{"start":23412.816,"end":23421.282,"text":"被他們殺害的那60多人的人權在哪裡?他說什麼?就要30、40、50億的法官都當他?YES!可以破死他這是違反的不對嗎?如果要說人權都說了如果這樣為什麼不去當他?跟他去當他?不用傳播的法官都當他?"},{"start":23441.67,"end":23441.87,"text":"實在說﹖歡迎"},{"start":23469.568,"end":23472.47,"text":"若是非常上訴以後 確定啦 確定啦齁這37個裡面 同期是有一地割的 有一地割的有幾個 你知道嗎 柏中這個要最高檢察署來調 調位那個 我們會把卷送給來做一個審核那另外那個 這個一致決的話 這個要向平益部"},{"start":23498.766,"end":23498.946,"text":"這要調評一部來審核"},{"start":23529.249,"end":23551.755,"text":"所以你若不知道就對了,這的人已經有20幾年了,保證,40幾年了,已經拐摸無機都行的都行現在來若沒有再審,若沒有五個法官都把他破死刑,他即時可以申請假釋,保證是不是這樣"},{"start":23554.027,"end":23562.955,"text":"這個依照現行的法律﹚無期徒刑﹚要假釋其實要25年25年跟委員報告不是25年就可以假釋 只是達到假釋的一個對啦 那就是他就可以申請了嘛 對不對依法﹚他可以申請假釋再來﹚37條裡面 這37條的私隱文有幾個人在三省有件事辯論的 你知道嗎"},{"start":23581.107,"end":23585.009,"text":"現在大法官說 如果三審沒言詞辯論 你是不能發言這37個有整個有言詞辯論的這個要有調劵來做一個具體的個案的一個宣言你發了你不就要問我說 數萬人聽到就公開說阿37個裡面只有5個人有言詞辯論阿對不對 一定會這樣 表示另外那30個不能發言"},{"start":23611.167,"end":23628.351,"text":"牆壁不可以破屎 還不一定還可以再鎖這樣不好喔 這個台灣官員在免 免得過分你不會放他過去這我告訴你 傷害了台灣人民的感情最深的如果要領款 你不就應該說 最初一喔"},{"start":23637.892,"end":23660.64,"text":"議員："},{"start":23661.383,"end":23679.366,"text":"我回答一個中性的問題啦齁 拔斷市名款 跟拔斷主流款 其實是不一樣的 因為差異數比較高的標準 是針對拔斷市名款的這個管理啦 但是這個 是特地黨的社會過討論 剛才你說有誤會 沒錯 一百多年以後 要怎麼改善違憲他才會受傷害 是要延遲辯論 他應該替代婚姻 由你換他來制定新的婚姻 不是他講的尊聖啦 所以我說他違憲啦"},{"start":23693.319,"end":23721.295,"text":"致敬酒 罷敬酒 致敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬酒 現在是怎樣?致敬酒 罷敬"},{"start":23722.403,"end":23723.043,"text":"對這議案這情何以堪好來"},{"start":23752.708,"end":23763.453,"text":"委員長 您的政策還沒辦法改變您繼續維持2025年恢復恢復齡的家庭 每個月的標料還要檢討這樣讓我們台灣就對了 延長差不多3年多至4年 會再度恢復恢復齡"},{"start":23779.175,"end":23784.577,"text":"會料到我們的九千億至一丟兩千億的剩餘這是專門要共同付出的代價那麼你那一天有去七個﹐看一個太陽燈的場﹐有嗎有你去看那張有沒有合法那張剩下的是比較順利的一張但是還有一些稍微滑下去的艇數要再完成"},{"start":23807.034,"end":23815.198,"text":"他回頭有跟我說他還有一些他有跟你說嗎?我還沒完全學到就對了你為什麼去看那張?你怎麼知道?誰跟你介紹的?這是經濟部收到的資料來,我一定要去那個資料經濟部?那間就是老總統清廳的好朋友"},{"start":23830.353,"end":23841.722,"text":"我去晉晉真的不知道我去晉晉真的不知道我知道你晉晉不知道 但是你去的時候 人家有跟你說 穿上衣服穿得很好嗎沒有 沒這樣說 不好意思沒這樣說喔我台南喔 台南跟你去那個七角啦七角的面積是110平方公里啦已經有晉天了 你知不知道多少差不多15平方公里 等於說一個七角裡面有15%的晉天"},{"start":23861.234,"end":23876.702,"text":"辦門叫這兩個太陽七個叫這三個太陽你一日去的時間你六人道的客廳四十一度了我十二月要十二月去的時候你六人道的客廳三十九度了三個太陽一個七個已經達到超過一個幾個月我們台南市已經超過四點二幾個月這樣還要做"},{"start":23891.394,"end":23899.599,"text":"要再做在出現文總統的臨來 給我起訴一件道理91頁現主席 這裡的太平洋發電廠會長會長 有人帶路照你知不知道你知不知道 你不知道啦 帶什麼路照 路詐啦"},{"start":23920.979,"end":23946.353,"text":"一餘兩三次啊啊為什麼 因為待了啊 冰頭太陽已經大了啊學校簽20年 跟大學簽20年 你們什麼人敢去跟他學沒有人敢去跟他學檢察官也不一定跟他學的學的也沒有的 對不對因為那種菜 茄子嘛 茄子菜好啊我如果有機會做市長 我會跟他學"},{"start":23948.442,"end":23964.375,"text":"因為當今時 你要跟人們在地來檢估就是說 會不會已經戴路照了他路照戴好了 賺一條錢 給我賣你你來做光電 光電沒有違法囉你來做還給我戴了 光電就在路照上面你起來的年齡 到現在 光電的幣額這麼多你還沒有反駁"},{"start":23976.65,"end":23977.931,"text":"我希望你做一個重檢討要重量關節"},{"start":23990.512,"end":24010.98,"text":"第二就是在申請的時候 要通過一規範你經濟部不是嗎 地方譴責 地方譴責就會太狡猾了接受性招待 有來偶世的 有來怕事那樣的 我幫你通過若沒有 我幫你擱置 是這樣 台南市局長那一關是這樣來的你中央沒有要制定一個名堪 你完全沒有做名堪去規範"},{"start":24019.011,"end":24033.641,"text":"所以責性 台南市 地方這的官員 會當最下級手我先可以報告 委員兩句話就好第一 我一天去那現場 我第一句說若是每天都存在這裡的損失 我都不用來了 我知道有很多問題第二 我覺得說"},{"start":24036.503,"end":24048.855,"text":"現在經濟部跟郵輪、郵輪、郵輪、郵輪所寬的那個 所安省的那些 稍看 要去檢討沒必要的 困難的不要去做 檢討所才去做我了解你去看的意思就是有剛才你說的爐渣 我要求 現在我們在檢查單位 主動調查"},{"start":24058.587,"end":24078.798,"text":"最主要的是因為 要給他背書 不是針對他背書啦 就是說這張被告合法啦 咱們坦白講啦阿你這樣我就不用去寫了 我知道有問題阿你知道有問題為什麼不辦啦 問題是什麼不辦啦我明明有公私的方法啊 第一要透明 第二要幹法你不知道兩千 兩千年一陣"},{"start":24083.376,"end":24090.5,"text":"全世界黑麵皮露有幾隻你知道嗎?全台灣兩百隻經過我們台南這裡做雲吶在燒雲吶的時候都流一瓦給黑麵皮吃叫你說雲吶燒完我會拼我還要再拼喔?他沒有,他等黑麵皮剝回去拼好之後他才開始整理雲吶還要定期到九年就對了,到今年,年初了"},{"start":24114.079,"end":24135.187,"text":"都中立請九百八十八隻非常好 幾年 比幾年就對了加三百五十五隻 全世界來 整個國家 統計起來但是 全世界加三百五十五隻台灣 減九十一隻台南市 減一百九十一隻為甚麼 因為電競有夠多現在屏東 加九十六隻"},{"start":24143.442,"end":24144.403,"text":"委員長施政報告並備質詢：完整會議"},{"start":24165.114,"end":24174.863,"text":"你從來沒有關閉到當歐美南北這麼熱鬧不再來的時候就是表示台灣這塊土地已經倒下去了例外我們都很清楚了我們為什麼不能停下來這塊土地 對不對再來就是說在這樣的過程我們現在才有一張"},{"start":24190.882,"end":24191.262,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":24222.019,"end":24248.077,"text":"還是要施政?主席委員 我請署長跟委員請講 你在總結的資料 我馬上來處理每一套都有報啦嘛 齁在辦公啦 你們的分家人 方官署的署長 也說不宜再開花了啦所以我才跟你說 總量管制 要怎麼管制 你們鑽進去拖下去 我不會跟你介入啦 我不會說 欸我到這裡不用用了 我不會這樣啦"},{"start":24250.27,"end":24255.434,"text":"全民去檢討我請教你 從頭到尾幾幾天 無論大在北大在南大在東 都是你的住民 是不是這樣 喝水的時候 您說50公分要補助"},{"start":24274.687,"end":24290.971,"text":"老總統聖殿下說過去30天做不完事我30天做好了各位台南鄉親從今天開始我們台南市不會再喝水了我還是特地再喝?民宿有減酒啦後面民宿減酒喝水喝得比較高你知不知道後面哭啦我在今年八月我已經控告了我不知道你們有辦嗎?地檢署有辦嗎?"},{"start":24303.652,"end":24309.255,"text":"叫你說不用喝水,那叫什麼?提供綁花綁花啦綁花啦綁花啦綁花啦綁花"},{"start":24325.401,"end":24326.562,"text":"這不是經濟沒做的"},{"start":24354.005,"end":24370.318,"text":"不是經濟補償 大家有錢有錢有錢 大家有錢有錢 這不是我做的這樣主委會做的 主委會說也不是我做的大家能拿到2億所以我還去賭啦今天我查看誰做的啦那後裔人如果要控體恨沒白費啦沒白費啦我問你"},{"start":24376.75,"end":24391.734,"text":"後果會大後果來 一定會改變他現在修補這塊有百天喔這20公尺有百五 頭正後面沒百這樣要怎樣你不要去看一看 不然檢察官會在討論要慶慶慶慶我告訴你 整層就在150公分150公分"},{"start":24403.08,"end":24405.581,"text":"巴掌司的帖文我給你看"},{"start":24453.787,"end":24454.828,"text":"謝謝謝忠建委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢"},{"start":24464.127,"end":24467.708,"text":"接下來我們請登記第16位李博義委員質詢好"},{"start":24493.932,"end":24513.466,"text":"來有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢理委好院長先跟你抱歉我們今天程序委員會 呃 行政院的預算再度被退回"},{"start":24514.707,"end":24527.397,"text":"但是在從7月16休會到今天正式可以在這邊再質詢院長其實這段時間博弈在地方上也做了很多的努力包含跟行政院團隊"},{"start":24529.338,"end":24531.862,"text":"新台17縣在去年度院長還沒有上任的時候國防部提出比原本多14億"},{"start":24546.101,"end":24565.532,"text":"必須要高雄市政府來代差代鑒包含新建新的戰備跑道包含中正哨口等等這一些那我在這個暑假期間那也拜託我們公共工程委員會陳金德主委以及李毅德副主委"},{"start":24566.36,"end":24583.48,"text":"很順利在9月5號跟9月18號的現刊分別解決了幾個問題那現在甚至國防部也允許高雄市政府把工建計畫不用重送用抽換的方式"},{"start":24584.14,"end":24600.071,"text":"直接跟國防部這邊來抽換把14億裡面國防部需要的戰備跑到28億已經抽換完畢那目前就等國防部這邊快速來送給行政院我們的目標還是期待在2026年這一條路能"},{"start":24602.832,"end":24627.378,"text":"能如期同車在這邊感謝行政院各部會的協調包含工程會跟高雄市政府還有國防部院長這個但是這個也是明年度的預算跟委員報告那個有關我們那個需要待拆待建的那個公共建設計畫也就是我們的那個南段二期的那一個幾個需求項目9月23號已經"},{"start":24630.49,"end":24654.818,"text":"完成抽換成報行政院審議了9月23已經成報了謝謝部長你請回這個在過去其實我處理這條新台17縣處理了十幾年了沒有那麼簡單那感謝行政院的這個橫向的聯繫很快的協調好但是我們還是需要謝謝委員的關心讓我們可以跟地方政府一起合作第二個感謝院長本人"},{"start":24655.798,"end":24655.938,"text":"是的"},{"start":24680.766,"end":24701.763,"text":"這兩個預算在這邊感謝院長對於國家重點領域校際研教園區的這個支持高雄其實正在轉變高雄其實正在脫胎換骨高雄因為台積電加上AI還有種種的產業高雄其實正在轉變我們需要的是大量的建設"},{"start":24703.405,"end":24716.697,"text":"但是在新任交通部長來之前前任交通部長其實有到我辦公室希望可以溝通一個高雄方案也就是高鐵要延伸到屏東"},{"start":24717.833,"end":24741.692,"text":"要不要經過高雄車站的這個方案2019年行政院蘇院長來到屏東宣布這個左營方案那希望這個左營方案他可以讓高鐵從左營直接進入屏東不用經過高雄車站不用在明娃不用在淺頓那用比較少的經費可以讓這個高鐵進入屏東"},{"start":24743.356,"end":24748.057,"text":"但是前部長到我辦公室的時候鐵道局拿了"},{"start":24749.858,"end":24772.595,"text":"高雄方案說要淺遁要明挖我想要確認一下這件事情有沒有這一個高雄計畫目前我看到部長一上任同學很認真喔直接跑到屏東宣布這個屏東六塊處車站等等的可能什麼時候要興建我要問的是為什麼高雄計畫又重新被拿出來討論"},{"start":24774.844,"end":24802.145,"text":"容我講一下在高鐵公司成立的時候在做這些高鐵站計畫的時候2000年以前1998年合訂高鐵在臺灣西部有哪幾個站當時的高雄市市長吳敦義因為會經過高雄車站附近會拆到一些房子所以高鐵當時只到左營站"},{"start":24803.274,"end":24828.303,"text":"在2010年的時候國民黨執政當時正在做這個高雄的鐵路地下化的工程的時候陸正思曾經有一個公文我秀給大家看當時的交通部長毛志國當時的交通部次長葉匡石後來10年後還被我們韓院長請來高雄當副市長的葉匡石"},{"start":24829.554,"end":24857.526,"text":"他一輩子也沒有想到當時他否定這個計畫讓高鐵進入高雄車站供軌的這個計畫沒有進一步研究高鐵有沒有辦法進入高雄車站這個計畫有一天會在擔任高雄市副市長被拿出來修理兩次機會一個國民黨的市長一個國民黨的部長都沒有讓高鐵進入高雄車站甚至延伸到屏東"},{"start":24859.022,"end":24886.117,"text":"如果這個政策是確定的如果這個政策確定高鐵要進入高雄車站要延伸到屏東請問這10多年來鐵路地下化造成高雄交通黑暗期再加上高鐵如果要進入高雄車站再一次民挖或者是再一次用潛盾對高雄地區造成的影響誰該負責請問"},{"start":24889.801,"end":24905.953,"text":"我們要怎麼樣把它做好可以降低到影響高雄市民我重點答覆委員之後請部長來說明現在過去我們一段時間我們所了解的是左營方案是整個在決定高鐵南征的時候左營方案是"},{"start":24906.753,"end":24922.768,"text":"之前的一個決定但是之後地方上有很多不同的意見包括左營方案它的優劣性以及現在的高雄車站不是左營車站是高雄車站是相當大過去在興建的時候就是為了高鐵而做的"},{"start":24923.348,"end":24948.736,"text":"那所以現在有人討論到說用高鐵進到高雄車站的高雄方案目前是這個樣子那細節的部分我請部長來回答部長請你回應跟委員報告確實當時在2007年的時候高鐵是要進到高雄車站的當時是有這樣子的方案但是在2010年的時候像委員剛剛所說的由毛志國部長當時就覺得不可行所以就是"},{"start":24949.176,"end":24973.088,"text":"不可行的原因說這個營運規劃這個公文慢慢幫我秀一下不可行的原因說高鐵是BOT啦這個台鐵跟台鐵的這個延伸方案不一樣啊隨便找一個理由啦是所以當時就沒有延伸到高雄站這是一個非常可惜的過程所以在當時我們的高鐵就沒有進到高雄"},{"start":24974.028,"end":24999.387,"text":"到了現在大家在討論所謂的這個延伸屏東的方案的時候就有兩個案子一個是從左營走高屏二塊同樣的路廊直接到屏東這是一個方案另外一個方案就是回復到過去2007年當時所決定的高雄方案那第一個方案為什麼不可行呢因為我們有找這個高鐵的原廠也就是山林重工他們來做過評估他們評估的結論是不可行"},{"start":25000.188,"end":25016.91,"text":"幾個原因第一個對於未來的整個高鐵的整體的轉運可能會有相當負面的影響第二個如果是從左營拉到屏東的話車子沒有足夠的機場可以轉彎的狀況底下可能是倒退路啦倒著走到屏東所以他們認為不可行"},{"start":25017.33,"end":25043.526,"text":"那回到高雄方案我剛剛必須要說的是說2007年確實我們有設定高雄方案2010年雖然停止了但是我們的高雄車站現在的高雄火車站當時的設計就是要讓高鐵跟台鐵一起進入這個車站所以未來這個車站我想委員應該很清楚這個車站目前的建設是非常大的規模上面還會有一個商業大樓還會有一個飯店部長同學我跟你講的是"},{"start":25044.707,"end":25068.752,"text":"我們現在如果再挖一次對高雄市民需要一個交代為什麼你當初在做這個鐵路地下化的時候沒有一併做這個是誰做的決定請說明清楚第二個再次影響到高雄市民的生活的時候你要怎麼樣把這個傷害降到最低影響降到最低而這個都是補破網補誰的破網"},{"start":25072.353,"end":25097.128,"text":"當時2010年鐵路地下化的時候就不應該沒有進入高雄車站的這個政策是對於高雄市來說如果當時在鐵路地下化同時做高鐵的延伸的話其實是一次工不用兩次工那當時委員也有修出當時的文件就是毛志國部長當時做下這樣子的決定那確實在這十幾年的過程當中我們看到高雄車站周邊的沒落也是一個很大的問題"},{"start":25097.828,"end":25117.799,"text":"我們看到高雄車站的運量在全台灣目前已經排名到了第11大家的想像是臺北跟高雄應該是最大的兩站目前高雄站已經退到了第11名其實高雄車站要活絡齁其實臺鐵在高雄做的每一個車站它的區間的這些區間車其實我們都認為建議可以加密齁"},{"start":25119.099,"end":25141.588,"text":"這個部分我會努力那另外針對工程的部分不要造成大家的黑暗期就是我們會大量用淺燉不會用明蛙明蛙會減少會減到最低就我目前看到高雄計畫裡面左營的明蛙確實就影響到左營目前的崇德路所以這一個部分我們還要必須那這個部分我會跟委員來協商看怎麼樣減少影響"},{"start":25143.769,"end":25169.77,"text":"好那另外我們會用半半施工的方式也就是說東半邊在施工的時候左半邊通行左半邊施工的時候右半邊通行那讓他半半施工的時候對交通影響會降到最低同學我真的對你比較好讓你回答很多時間快不夠了接下來我講一句話就好了我到高雄的時候有人就跟我提到說如果10多年前這個案子實施的話第一個已經接近完工而且預算不用這麼多"},{"start":25170.791,"end":25171.031,"text":"還有為了當時錯誤的政策"},{"start":25201.172,"end":25212.749,"text":"公開的說明會跟市民朋友說明清楚這個我會舉辦接下來幾個小的啦這個高雄方案進去之後可能上千億這個兩億就好了"},{"start":25214.848,"end":25241.577,"text":"現在臺北車站進到高鐵第9車廂外面直接下這個人行道首扶梯就會接到臺北捷運我在8月的時候也會勘了這個高雄的高鐵其實高雄捷運也都做好這個空間來準備了那高鐵目前的評估還有很多的顧慮希望部長跟院長這邊也一併可以做這一個考量那第三個"},{"start":25242.617,"end":25271.011,"text":"高雄現在的轉變非常的大我來我秀一下這個演唱會最近的演唱會包含火星人包含艾爾頓牆包含One OK Rock Coldplay最新的今天公佈的Blackpink的Lisa也要來那這一些還有高雄現在加上台南的這個半導體的製造業TSMC的這個產值都已經超過新竹"},{"start":25272.162,"end":25300.672,"text":"我要告訴院長跟部長高雄機場不需要幾百億的擴建那個是幾百億的事情高雄機場需要的是培養運量把A350的飛機調來高雄開始培養可以直飛歐美或直飛澳洲的這些班機開始培養高雄機場的運量有運量之後這個機場才需要做更大的航廈的興建等等"},{"start":25302.455,"end":25303.275,"text":"先爭取國航,可以安排一架A350來高雄"},{"start":25324.747,"end":25352.089,"text":"那捷運紫縣也在9月19的時候高雄市政府已經送到交通部我們進一步可能要做這些先行規劃以及可能性評估的核定這個請交通部也加速規劃最後我只剩下一分鐘來講臺灣跟中國的房市的問題我有看到我們央行總裁也在場那先恭喜這一次央房的第7波信用管制應該會成功"},{"start":25355.016,"end":25365.341,"text":"應該會讓整個交易量停下來應該房價短期內也不會有再漲價的問題但是我在這裡要提醒2021年到2024年"},{"start":25368.086,"end":25384.275,"text":"一共34萬實價登錄的預售屋裡面有多少是楊總裁認為必須要給教訓的但是有多少是無辜要換屋有多少是家裡有繼承房產"},{"start":25384.835,"end":25385.175,"text":"請正視這些人"},{"start":25414.057,"end":25415.599,"text":"謝謝李博義委員質詢：謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第17號賴世保委員質詢"},{"start":25438.517,"end":25446.579,"text":"謝謝韓院長主席以及各位先進我們有請行政院的卓院長再請卓院長備詢內委員好內委員長你好你今天很紅"},{"start":25464.332,"end":25472.798,"text":"從早上到現在人都沒有你的幕僚告訴你為什麼會花這麼多錢早上一問下午到現在沒有答案"},{"start":25494.366,"end":25499.915,"text":"委員應該沒有看早上我對其他委員的答覆啊我一分鐘讓我答覆可嗎"},{"start":25508.763,"end":25532.02,"text":"520之後 裡面還在整修所以我在6月中下旬開始才陸續有一些會議在那裡開6月中到7月以後我才進去沒有人在說你浪費你做的時間不多可是大家問一個堂堂的行政院長過去的宰相結果"},{"start":25533.421,"end":25553.588,"text":"結果你一個月幾度墊你知道嗎?幾度墊你知道嗎?你也不知道?都這樣為AZ跟現在的某人做功課兩萬度墊兩萬度墊是什麼概念?所以我說你知不知道我們現在平均我的懷疑是你聽我講我聽我講好不好我講我再讓你講"},{"start":25555.762,"end":25579.214,"text":"你知不知道平均普羅大眾 老百姓 平均是多少 幾度點我告訴你這個極端值每個月超過一千度的 佔兩趴 兩趴 萬度 兩趴百分之二 我們院長是兩萬度"},{"start":25582.762,"end":25609.245,"text":"一個月兩萬度就是這個最高兩趴的二十倍大家看得到嗎?我們院長到底是在哪裡啊?在分店啊?在雲端啊?我以為你知道那裡面有四棟建築物嗎?怎麼會第二件事情?好像是我一個人用了兩萬度電一樣"},{"start":25612.282,"end":25616.045,"text":"是我一個人用2萬度電嗎?對,那裡有4棟建築物這個是...不正確的訊息"},{"start":25632.095,"end":25645.266,"text":"不要用這種簡單的數學喔 看一個事實的狀況 那裡有4棟建築物 裡面居住的人不是只有我一個人不是4個房間啊 4棟建築物 報告委員不是4個房間 4棟建築你認為兩萬度不會太多嗎"},{"start":25659.116,"end":25659.696,"text":"請你跑啦 我給你個數字啦"},{"start":25678.15,"end":25689.036,"text":"那裡面有4棟建築物住了非常非常多的人不是我一個人委員不能把狀態停在這種錯誤的資訊不能把狀態停在這種不真實的資訊"},{"start":25704.264,"end":25707.387,"text":"這個題目我問過你 我還問過陳建仁在今年3月 我問了陳建仁 我說 欸 院長啊5月1號勞動節要不要不要一國兩制啊"},{"start":25726.223,"end":25752.538,"text":"有些人就可以放假 有些人不放假 多麼的不方便我們要不要一國一制 統統放假 你知道陳建聯怎麼跟我講 我很高興 我覺得不錯 我最少幫大家都得分了 對不對 看起來今年的5月1號就要放樓 誰說沒有啊 NO SUIT 明年5月1號 也NO SUIT"},{"start":25753.939,"end":25770.034,"text":"我去查了一下內政部的長官 相關的長官還告訴我們相關人員說因為左院長沒有交代啊左院長只要交代就放假啦請問你 全國是不是希望5月以後全面放假請問你要不要全面放假"},{"start":25770.865,"end":25772.647,"text":"明年你不放啊什麼時候有共識什麼時候會有共識請問你們 你的態度怎麼樣"},{"start":25794.741,"end":25804.532,"text":"你可不可以很害羞很害羞啊你今天比如說你要來上班旁邊你的同仁替你開車的他照理講他要放啊"},{"start":25815.237,"end":25831.962,"text":"請人事長說明一下公務員的放假方式委員報告一下啦因為在整個假日期紀念日實施放法來政博要去考慮這次美女沒有放假的原因主要就是"},{"start":25832.862,"end":25840.767,"text":"我剛說過已經達到我們放假的上限這是一個再來社會的構思公務員服務法我們放假加上週休二日是一百一十五到一百一十六天"},{"start":25862.102,"end":25878.286,"text":"樂見其成 非常正面 讓我以為要放了 結果不是啊 我認爲陳院長也一定經過多方的考量 跟社會的溝通 所以今年的5月1號我們秉持一樣的溝通 繼續進行溝通有沒有機會"},{"start":25890.163,"end":25908.888,"text":"有沒有機會放假如果社會共識都非常高我們可以尋社會共識都非常高我講太快你又說我獨裁我講太慢你又說我拖拉我到現在為止沒有講過你獨裁的我不知道你這次獨裁要怎麼來的"},{"start":25911.385,"end":25913.026,"text":"我不能講太快否則我會獨斷我必須要跟社會溝通"},{"start":25933.766,"end":25962.923,"text":"我沒有講的話你不能塞到嘴巴裡面好我收回來阿我不能講太快我不能獨斷我必須跟社會講好來那個任市長可以回去了雖然我知道你想表現但以後再來來我們來看賴總統說AI就是國力我暫時把台灣造成人工智慧之道沒有人團隊結果呢亞洲是小龍各位看起來看一看喔"},{"start":25965.081,"end":25968.824,"text":"希望我們一起看得起台灣好不好我們一起看得起台灣啊"},{"start":25992.383,"end":26002.579,"text":"你知道國科會有發展一個LM叫泰德語言模型"},{"start":26005.68,"end":26034.278,"text":"你知道嗎 結果人家Loyal Qualification Results就是律師的資格的檢查看看我的AI的程度怎麼樣我們的準確力怎麼樣結果台灣37.8倒數同位這個主委請吳主委說明主委你貴姓吳主委是是 謝謝你看得怎麼樣"},{"start":26035.657,"end":26038.579,"text":"第一名這一家這第一家是台灣的公司台灣發電料"},{"start":26065.747,"end":26077.84,"text":"這個代表什麼意思我們整體的國力AI的國力輸給亞洲其他的山小龍第二個我們國科會發展的態度輸給台灣台灣國內的成家"},{"start":26087.187,"end":26106.054,"text":"國外的AI硬體其實都是台灣做的那我們自己的應用我們現在才剛開始要起步要發展所以將來我們會快速的追趕你要不要弄個KPI啊院長我問你啦給你企圖心好不好你什麼時候可以超過香港"},{"start":26119.952,"end":26130.355,"text":"委員我們的硬體製造相當的好但這個軟體的部分我們現在在全力發展我們的軟體所以我說我們要進入一個主權AI的應用時代這個就是主權AI的一個具體表現"},{"start":26135.677,"end":26148.409,"text":"我們不如亞洲三小龍我們take whatever輸給國內廠家再介紹兩年超過韓國對嗎?韓國15名你25名你說韓國?對韓國我們已經急起直追兩年可以嗎?三年"},{"start":26162.952,"end":26164.074,"text":"麻煩請央行總裁請備詢"},{"start":26190.367,"end":26218.782,"text":"我對楊總裁的學經歷專業雖然我是反對黨我都講他好話他的構想就是人高於老實掉底緊緊扒拼不敢忤逆長官他不是這樣 大家感覺是什麼這次很奇怪 左院長8月29號說不會有現代力就是聽他講 我應該要看中"},{"start":26222.744,"end":26243.894,"text":"賴總統9月1號也說沒有現代力我不管細節啦齁我就要講一個東西你們兩位當然就是希望資金寬鬆然後百業發達然後大家有機會談資金流動多 流動性嘛 liquidity大家都知道兩岸總是這個東西"},{"start":26246.756,"end":26269.882,"text":"結果我們總裁碰一個人就說叫核彈級的信用官職這裡面一定有原因以你這麼溫和的人這麼溝語的人這麼老實的人怎麼會碰一個說我要經說正面打臉左院長跟蔣總統不是跟那個賴總統不是蔣總統我們上台賴總統不是蔣總統"},{"start":26276.178,"end":26280.648,"text":"好 你要不要講一下 你看到什麼一定要做這個東西 看到什麼"},{"start":26283.511,"end":26286.193,"text":"我首先來跟委員報告"},{"start":26311.65,"end":26319.859,"text":"都已經超﹐已經到達這個百分之三十﹐三十﹐欸 百分之他到臨界點了已經到警戒點了途徑"},{"start":26321.457,"end":26347.279,"text":"土地建築加貸款37點多了他30%了所以呢一些的銀行就採取了現代令當時市場是跟他們講就是說這個就是現代令這個是市場給他的一個名稱但是呢這個是銀行本身他的一個自主性的一個"},{"start":26348.649,"end":26374.684,"text":"一個現代令我們說現代令但是這個不是政府這個不是政府說我們呢就是說政府呢是把它推推推動的一個現代令不是這個是銀行他的自主的管理因為他要到達那個C0了沒有沒有等一下好不好等一下你的意思就是說你看到了銀行給房地產的"},{"start":26376.345,"end":26377.787,"text":"不是不是不是不是"},{"start":26384.787,"end":26387.769,"text":"為什麼你要祭出這麼強烈的信用管制你還沒回答問題"},{"start":26413.629,"end":26418.131,"text":"我希望你長話短說是不是你看到了如果沒有出售有可能引起"},{"start":26444.315,"end":26450.463,"text":"我想是這樣子啦 第一個就是說我們的資源要合理的"},{"start":26452.096,"end":26480.69,"text":"分配第一個我們的信用的資源要合理的分配這是第一點第二點呢如果說我們呢我們的資源沒有做合理的分配太過集中這個的時候如果沒有去注意它的時候呢很容易會就像日本或是美國日本的一個泡沫還有就是還有次貸風暴就是這樣子但是呢我們事實上就是說所以簡單來講就是你想心裡想如果我沒有出手"},{"start":26481.94,"end":26503.676,"text":"台灣可能不如日本跟美國的次貸風暴不過這個是一個時間的問題啦如果我們現在來出手的時候呢 那麼這個可能就不會發生那如果說我們太接近去出手的時候呢 這個泡沫會爆掉所以這個是一個時間的距離的一個問題啦"},{"start":26507.978,"end":26509.619,"text":"你聽到說有中型的銀行45間 差不多有問題 趕快出所 有這件事情嗎"},{"start":26531.56,"end":26554.845,"text":"你再說一次 你有聽到中型的銀行因為過度的放貸快要出問題了 沒有就說他快要出問題 沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有說他要出問題 沒有沒有這回事 我們只是說如果說大家都是到達這個C0的時候呢 那這樣的話會"},{"start":26556.425,"end":26558.047,"text":"請問大家有沒有到達西林?"},{"start":26569.349,"end":26579.656,"text":"都是到26、27 因為他到28的時候就已經很高了 因為他會徐林是多少 30他到了28啦 28、27、26、25都有啦 只是說有一些家是這樣子啦"},{"start":26589.404,"end":26614.532,"text":"剛才有民進黨的委員提到的你這裡面會不會有濫殺無辜我想委員這樣的懷疑是合理的啦是合理的但是我也要跟委員藉這個機會來跟委員報告事實上我們持續的在聆聽在聽取各方的意見"},{"start":26616.956,"end":26635.672,"text":"我們如果說必要的時候 我想我們對於那些需要協助的那些我們所稱的無辜的 我想我們可能會推出相關的協助措施或是排除條款"},{"start":26637.67,"end":26660.535,"text":"主要就是開選期你等於說有一個補救的配套措施要出來對不對那個也不是說補救啦那也可以說啦是那個什麼配套措施好了阿什麼時候可以出來我想我們會盡快一個月內可以嗎一個月內可以嗎不用那麼久我們不用那麼久"},{"start":26666.226,"end":26682.141,"text":"我跟委員報告 如果說有一些的人需要來協助的時候我個人都覺得盡快越快越好這樣能夠協助他們我這樣子是不是可以你講的我給你做一個小節一個月一個禮拜以內"},{"start":26687.246,"end":26714.261,"text":"提出相關的配套特殊需要的情況我們專案處理這樣對嗎你可以接受嗎拜託委員 這個讓央行能夠充裕的時間 妥善的因應收集各方的反應之後他才能夠做出整套的 合理的制度院長這回過了 你比較專業的齁這個總裁啊你剛剛講的話 我能不能再做一個小節"},{"start":26715.578,"end":26735.621,"text":"就是楊金榮總裁看到了水位不斷的接近天花板怕引起本土性類似日本美國的時代風暴所以不得不痛下殺手"},{"start":26737.197,"end":26766.121,"text":"這個講得太嚴重了太嚴重了 這個不是說馬上就會發生的問題啦我們就說如果說能夠給我們比較長的時間來做一些事的話總裁啊 我是替你講話啊因為你這一出手得罪院長啊 得罪總統啊來給你同情寒鬆咧不會 我在上次的院會當中我第一時間我說要感謝中央銀行第一時間提醒航庫跟社會大眾我們是非常肯定的"},{"start":26766.861,"end":26784.786,"text":"總裁請問請問請問謝謝我請教韓國瑜院長不好意思我很少請教你請問你經濟部的國智慧部長今天不來有沒有跟你請教阿他有什麼偉大的公司沒有"},{"start":26791.633,"end":26815.897,"text":"不是不是 講一下 我了解一下 他是什麼偉大的公司 他今天不來跟賴司法委員報告時間暫停 郭勤輝部長因公赴日本訪問日本你知道哪裡嗎目前沒有 我只知道他的時間院長啊 你人太好啦 你說用愛啊 對對他啊 他們吃定你啊 他是雄本啊"},{"start":26816.724,"end":26826.386,"text":"對 跟委員報告 部長去熊本 因為熊本的重大的投資這個台積電也沒有去啊 不僅僅這個禮拜他不來喔這個禮拜五他也不來喔 國智會帶頭藐視國會 那個左院長啊 你前幾天才說喔"},{"start":26837.662,"end":26866.775,"text":"才說要各部會首長都要來備詢對我說除了陪總統接見重要的外賓或者有特別重要的行程那這一件郭部長在早先就跟我說了這個很重要嗎重要到比來國會備詢重要喔國會備詢當然重要國會這麼重要的地方我們有次長代理這個也是次長出國就好啦次長代理這個也是正常的程序他是管情報的他對一定都不懂啊你叫他來就不好"},{"start":26868.601,"end":26897.099,"text":"叫來的母豪阿天瑞這麼簡單嗎我們的部長、次長都是在專業上跟委員就教的你不要講外行話啦次長都有分工的啦請問你是不是管國貿的貿易的對吧是是嘛如果今天問CPTPP你可以回答問ECPA你可以回答國安會可以回答但是我問你電力的話阿你馬上你就不知道"},{"start":26898.257,"end":26903.991,"text":"對不對 這個東西這個 院長阿要求 不會所長阿"},{"start":26905.35,"end":26931.117,"text":"不要請你的假借出國這個容許我也代替郭部長 再向委員跟院長致歉確實是非常重要的行程今天也有一位首長也是請假但我們認為說 院會比較重要還是請他留在這裡但是郭部長這個是之前跟日方就安排好的行程早先就跟我講過了我們都很尊敬 都很愛在喊院長以後他們不會送請假 不要隨便准了"},{"start":26932.366,"end":26938.27,"text":"我當年當召委的時候在法治委員會游錫堃總統和秘書長來跟我請假我就不准阿理由不充分阿他說那個中藥我說來立法院跟中藥也面對人民欸"},{"start":26962.125,"end":26963.345,"text":"out of China, out of Taiwan"},{"start":26987.802,"end":26988.683,"text":"美國跟中國在fight"},{"start":27014.614,"end":27016.235,"text":"對不起委員不是這樣的講法這樣對郭部長也不公平"},{"start":27044.06,"end":27062.893,"text":"所以我要特別提醒院長對於你的部會首長不能給人家施定你隨便給你糊弄一下這個只有兩個可能第一個他不願意來面對立法院第二個可能你認為他的運營的技巧不好最好他不要來"},{"start":27064.88,"end":27068.302,"text":"一百一十二年 去年到現在我們給他多少錢給三千億"},{"start":27094.217,"end":27121.105,"text":"給3千億然後現在還要給最佳金預算1千億還有明年度的增加預算1千億 2千億不到兩年的時間要5千億要這麼多錢還一定要錢所以我說這個陳社長就不能來嘛 郭部長先理人就知道了這塊的公司要怎麼做負債百分之九十幾"},{"start":27124.309,"end":27128.931,"text":"這個不是事實阿 這個不是事實阿"},{"start":27153.618,"end":27176.363,"text":"事實上電價要由這個月的這個電價審議會來決定請問你們要不要面對這樣子的一個社會側翼的罔工你們要把新聞搞我們沒有對立法院做這樣子的公職我立法院提前就我們要漲價這什麼跟什麼這叫PUA 情緒勒索PUA"},{"start":27180.765,"end":27203.44,"text":"PWA pick up artist這個是情緒勒索很嚴重這假訊息弄得然後我們就覺得奇怪我們在這邊政治澄清這個是假訊息沒有這樣的事情你看喔核能1.1塊錢再生能力5塊錢你台電跟你說的因為核電不用1塊錢生產成本多4塊"},{"start":27205.199,"end":27220.193,"text":"合費料的處理成本非常高委員你是財經的專家你應該算得出來這個成本不能只看1.1塊錢合費料的成本的處理是非常高的最後一個題目大法官現在快要變成過街老鼠了忍忍難打特別是會時的期次出來之後"},{"start":27232.554,"end":27256.571,"text":"那個法務部長可以上來齁你看大法官喔最近的人家的民調百分之五成以上對大法官獨立性沒有信心曾部長上來把法務部的好了大法官現在是社會最大的亂民他只要解釋一出啊社會必亂在109年的時候790號解釋令"},{"start":27260.166,"end":27283.538,"text":"大麻現在到處氾濫 大麻是二毒品對不對 二級毒品大麻是二毒品 到處氾濫 因為大麻跟790號解釋再過來國會擴圈 暫時出分 朝野不合再過來現在實行實現現在部長啊 你剛剛客氣的啦 我們就講一個"},{"start":27284.713,"end":27287.234,"text":"謝謝 謝謝時間已到 謝謝賴司法委員指定 謝謝卓院長的備詢"},{"start":27311.474,"end":27331.674,"text":"報告委員會現在在議場參觀的是日本關西大學老師帶著學生來中華民國立法院參觀我們掌聲來歡迎好不好歡迎哈歡迎大家日本來的好朋友謝謝報告委員會現在我們休息10分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢現在休息好 委員長辛苦"},{"start":27936.038,"end":27936.739,"text":"主席大家好,我們請院長麻煩再請左院長備詢"},{"start":27970.174,"end":27998.846,"text":"徐委員好 院長好我們要推動高雄AI產業鏈打造AI首都 Tech高雄這個Tech包括TechnologyEconomyCharmIn Happy叫科技經濟魅力華誼的高雄我們其實很多數位韌性需要再加強比如說數位港口高雄有海港有空港但是現在數位港還沒有"},{"start":27999.625,"end":28025.695,"text":"所以我們希望說是不是有機會在高雄打造一個數位港口那他山之石可以工作新加坡這個案例其實我覺得還蠻不錯的就是吸引AI廠商建立金融特區跟舉辦國際會議加強AI投資我們現在有一些新創的預算但是是不是可以讓地方政府充分的利用我想我們"},{"start":28026.648,"end":28051.315,"text":"整個中央的團隊可以再做一個思考然後呢 亞洲資訊管理中心這個也是高雄的機會那包括麥斯國際會議這一些我想我們一樣一樣希望說可以來接近新加坡然後呢 來增加我們高雄的AI的能量那我想我們 院長你先休息我們請那個抒發部抒發部長"},{"start":28056.004,"end":28062.866,"text":"我想新加坡呢這個投資10億的新幣大概250億的台幣在AI的發展然後呢他們經發局也網羅全球的人才"},{"start":28085.212,"end":28106.968,"text":"包括在Google在新加坡本來有3座資料中心現在已經2024今年設了第4座然後在台灣Google在我們彰化為主有資料中心微軟主要在桃園現在有一所叫做亞馬遜他打算投資高雄"},{"start":28107.738,"end":28134.317,"text":"打算投資臺灣是不是有機會到高雄這個我們也希望說中央可以重視另外新加坡其實他很會吸收人才就是從科技準證吸引國際人才等等還有一些家庭辦公室等等有很多蠻好的措施我們想先請教一下就是海底電纜海纜霸權這個是一個最基本的條件"},{"start":28135.377,"end":28161.176,"text":"新加坡上岸的大概有400垂簾的流量香港大概不到200的流量台灣大概有109左右的流量那大部分都從北部的海南站上來北部有三個海南站那南部的仿山呢大概上來的流量大概不到一梯啦那我是希望說在高雄是不是有機會設立這個數位港口"},{"start":28163.397,"end":28191.567,"text":"也就是說讓全球的資訊資料大數據可以在高雄上岸這個部分速發部是不是有規劃是跟委員報告本部已經在9月2號邀請了相關部會包含國科會交通部和航港局港務公司以及高雄市政府召開座談會就是討論就是要這樣高雄海嵐的上岸地點那我們這個正在討論那我們會積極的進行這件事情"},{"start":28192.208,"end":28219.586,"text":"那什麼時候可以完成這個海欄站這個還在研商報告委員現在還沒有明確的日期估計的時間沒有按上現在都在跟時間賽跑是目前我們了解的狀況因為這個有很多的部會必須一起合作一起負責包含那個高雄市政府所以我們這個事情我們可能雙方都要再加把勁"},{"start":28220.362,"end":28249.511,"text":"現在跟院長報告希望說院長可以幫忙追進度啦就是我們現在高雄可能在興達電廠那邊有之前運煤的那個通道現在那個地方是一個很好的設置海底電纜站的地方那我們其實就是大概台電跟港務公司我們幾乎都溝通過跟速發部溝通過希望說這個部分速發部可以儘速進行也就是說你一個海纜登陸站先設定好"},{"start":28250.691,"end":28273.708,"text":"將來其他海南公司會陸續上來包括中華電信包括其他民間業者海南公司都讓他上來我希望說速發部就是用一個公平的原則以前主要上來的海南站幾乎都是中華電信但是其實我們希望說有多個不同的進來這樣子對我們的數位韌性對於我們的國安治安"},{"start":28274.528,"end":28279.551,"text":"蘇發部預定10月2日邀請7家國際海欄業者以及高雄市政府進一步開會,盡快加速這件事情還有蘇發部的100億的AI軟體"},{"start":28300.647,"end":28307.973,"text":"應用的資金主要是for我們國內的企業還是可以for地方政府還是可以for國外的企業"},{"start":28309.114,"end":28309.234,"text":"主要的對象"},{"start":28339.568,"end":28360.717,"text":"那臺灣人其實真的很強在那個臺灣人有一個做那個Living Optics那個AI相機其實你看包括輝達黃仁鑫臺灣人包括AMD蘇之鋒臺灣人包括梁建厚美超委"},{"start":28361.516,"end":28380.212,"text":"包括這一家這一家其實是臺灣人新創他這個其實用那個顏色可以做AI的辨識其實比人眼可能要強100倍這個其實他是人才但是其實他在英國然後被新加坡吸引去了所以就是說我們這一百"},{"start":28380.987,"end":28381.087,"text":"主席"},{"start":28404.21,"end":28425.444,"text":"當然我們不是都二人,但是好的我們可以學習,所以你吸收國際人才,包括你看像我們台灣人叫新加坡KiKi,我們也很沒差,所以這個部分可能數位發展部跟國發會,甚至跟經濟部,我們是不是有一個國內的類似新加坡的經濟發展局,"},{"start":28428.498,"end":28443.723,"text":"經濟發展局跟特務一樣很厲害全世界各地的展覽他都去看看一看以後有什麼好的展覽他都去拜訪拜訪覺得將來有機會就把它找進來找進來以後這個是一個很強的企業他還可以增加就業機會可以增加國內投資"},{"start":28445.143,"end":28446.203,"text":"發展AI高科技產業最重要的是人才"},{"start":28467.348,"end":28485.002,"text":"最優秀的人才都希望居住在一個美麗迷人而且宜居的城市高雄市一個美麗迷人而且宜居的城市所以我們認為說高雄市發展AI一個很好的地點那我們這個部分希望就是說我們跟"},{"start":28485.822,"end":28489.223,"text":"中央需要專門去找人才的單位,不管是經濟部、國發會、書發部也好,要有這樣的方向去找,甚至他100億基金裏否國內企業有沒有否地方政府"},{"start":28510.247,"end":28512.871,"text":"主要是給企業如果地方政府要發展這方面的專業但是呢這個地方政府呢"},{"start":28526.77,"end":28528.332,"text":"主要是讓這個在這個地方上可以發展得更好這個我們這樣子錢可以用嗎"},{"start":28549.932,"end":28575.726,"text":"跟委員報告一下 國發基金主要是依據產創條例只要符合上面的規定 個別企業也可以來申請我們的資金對 所以我就說其實我們在評分的時候 如果加上他跟地方政府合作可以可以增加他被我們核准的機會的話事實上地方政府他要發展會有角色 否則你就看不到地方政府的角色"},{"start":28576.539,"end":28590.013,"text":"我們可以看其實我們地方政府現在也很努力在招商我們可以看到那個輝達已經跟那個鴻海在我們高雄設台北灣所以那名字叫台北灣了那是設在高雄那包括"},{"start":28590.806,"end":28616.747,"text":"MD也要把研發中心進駐高雄所以我再一次的呼籲就是亞馬遜呢中央如果說有那個角度就是臺北當臺灣政治的首都高雄當臺灣AI的首都那現在高雄正好有這個條件不管是這一些科技大廠進駐那不管是我剛提到海南站我們希望說數化部可以盡快然後跟NCC能夠盡快把這個全世界你可以看新加坡那個網路"},{"start":28618.601,"end":28645.388,"text":"新加坡你看那個海底電纜那個多強啊真的是全世界海底電纜現在幾乎是第一強的大概是新加坡那我們台灣其實這是我們一個學習的方向所以從興達電廠這裡我們電也比其他地方好我們在這邊大廠也來了甚至高雄也不缺水整體上來高雄的環境都很好那包括這一陣子其實陳其邁市長也"},{"start":28646.533,"end":28646.753,"text":"臺灣最強的地方："},{"start":28676.986,"end":28704.688,"text":"世界很強的一個AI城市這個部分是不是院長可以認同謝謝委員 報告委員包括城市長他一直是非常努力在招商在引資 在留財的地方首長那高雄找一個適當的地點讓海嵐上岸所以包括委員剛剛所提的興達港在內我們還有幾個地方在評估"},{"start":28705.475,"end":28733.881,"text":"那10月2號我們會邀集7家的廠商再進一步來研商如何把高雄打造一個更符合現在所謂南部X狼帶能夠發展的一個以高雄為中心向上發展的一個基地那這個部分是符合國家重大建設的謝謝院長我的意思是說AI其實在高雄應該就是中央部會能夠幫忙強化你可以看到AI三立就是人力 算力 應用力那我們的"},{"start":28735.043,"end":28735.063,"text":"委員長"},{"start":28751.878,"end":28751.898,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":28768.181,"end":28768.261,"text":"﹚發言委員："},{"start":28797.538,"end":28804.059,"text":"在推動台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心的16項計畫裡面其中有一項就是希望在高雄在過去既有的基礎上面我們能夠建置一個資產管理的一個專區或是一個聚落一個園區"},{"start":28821.903,"end":28850.309,"text":"所以現在這個方向沒有問題我們已經在規劃的更細部的做法除了延續過去我們的既有的兩三年前會討論基礎以外我們最近還會把它加入有關私人銀行還有OBU還有一些其他的加速辦公室的機能在裡面這是以高雄為主是的這個非常重要所以這是包括AI的算力人力應用力整個軟體的發展的資源包括我們的"},{"start":28851.444,"end":28852.744,"text":"謝謝許思杰委員的質詢 也謝謝卓院長的備詢"},{"start":28881.138,"end":28896.934,"text":"接下來我們請登記第19位黃建豪委員質詢好 謝謝大會主席我們請這個左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢"},{"start":28907.574,"end":28929.52,"text":"委員好院長好院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑何限但是呢他有要求說這個各審期何以庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法"},{"start":28933.271,"end":28959.921,"text":"沒有明定要何義廷法官一致才可以判處死刑這件事情在違反了正當法律程序原則那我想問一下如果所有的法官在三省裡面所有的法官都要判決一致他才符合正當法律程序原則嗎是這樣嗎依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的"},{"start":28961.391,"end":28962.171,"text":"施政部長施政報告"},{"start":28985.74,"end":29004.275,"text":"那我想問說這個判決裡面講說相關機關兩年內要來提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚84%、85%的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關"},{"start":29005.596,"end":29029.258,"text":"跟委員報告,這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法,所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本?會有行政院的版本?他那個事完修法後會會選行政院"},{"start":29030.273,"end":29031.273,"text":"法制作業提出意見"},{"start":29052.813,"end":29069.158,"text":"因為我想這件事情提出來雖然說這個死刑是核限的但其實本質上它就是實質廢死那北協這邊講啊這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的"},{"start":29070.078,"end":29093.661,"text":"這麽多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候受盡立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麽去審這個法案不知道部長或院長你有什麽樣的想法可以教我們我們要怎麽樣去立這個法我們要怎麽樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才有辦法做到這個判決等於凌駕立法院等於凌駕行政院的版本"},{"start":29095.502,"end":29113.91,"text":"報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的合憲我們在這個有條件合憲的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決"},{"start":29114.77,"end":29114.83,"text":"主席"},{"start":29131.717,"end":29133.798,"text":"律長一直覺得說要跟民眾跟立法院來溝通我就看看這兩年"},{"start":29158.547,"end":29183.11,"text":"到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一致決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一致決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑那竊盜呢強盜呢這些東西是不是立審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則"},{"start":29183.524,"end":29185.286,"text":"政法律程序要在行訴訴訟法做規範"},{"start":29194.757,"end":29215.629,"text":"所以對於強盜或其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲法第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決"},{"start":29216.269,"end":29216.689,"text":"法院的三級三審視"},{"start":29231.377,"end":29256.855,"text":"如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是這個一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審三審的權利啦過去本來說二審三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官居然不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛"},{"start":29259.368,"end":29282.106,"text":"這部份檢察官受到判決會斟酌來做一個上訴不是,部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審、三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解"},{"start":29283.643,"end":29307.676,"text":"這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎還是不是對那個三審繼續維持嗎那個這是"},{"start":29310.638,"end":29316.408,"text":"憲判48號的一個判決意思是一二三審全部都要一致決對啊我就說要一致決"},{"start":29317.171,"end":29343.781,"text":"所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得也因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了"},{"start":29344.955,"end":29370.651,"text":"檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他那個做一審的話應該一致那個一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求前來上訴那個上訴到二審"},{"start":29371.471,"end":29400.573,"text":"那當然以現判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死這才可以部長這個當然我可以確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊我才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我怕教徒很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子"},{"start":29402.025,"end":29422.933,"text":"但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行那這件事情到底是有還是沒有他有沒有能不能被執行事務三會有這種情形啊那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並會妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎"},{"start":29427.362,"end":29449.102,"text":"這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不符一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適"},{"start":29450.202,"end":29477.492,"text":"他這樣的話可以改判為死刑只要一字決可以改判為死刑好 部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題委員的意思是說一二三審都要一字決對啊判時都要一字決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他字面上的說法一定會引起討論的一定會修法還會再修吧好 謝謝"},{"start":29479.568,"end":29481.171,"text":"那接下來談論一下地方建設阿部長謝謝"},{"start":29483.257,"end":29509.465,"text":"我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書啊我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reels講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道"},{"start":29510.385,"end":29538.47,"text":"今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話那我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本"},{"start":29539.462,"end":29539.642,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":29564.511,"end":29590.308,"text":"報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億但是未來整個中央跟地方分配的補助金額其實已經定下來了所以這個沒有問題到時候看工程走到什麼樣的進度中央該補助的金額絕對會到"},{"start":29591.469,"end":29592.87,"text":"章東都市計劃區只要有審定﹖綠線綜合規劃﹖就能抱怨來做相關的審查"},{"start":29621.026,"end":29640.155,"text":"中捷捷運綠線的部分往北是在我的選區在大坑往南是你以前部長以前的選區烏日到黃碩芳委員的選區到彰化等等的在這整條要做因為會卡到所謂的彰東都市計畫所以本期要問的是說有沒有解套的空間有沒有機會"},{"start":29641.275,"end":29662.857,"text":"是分段的這個分段通則的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計畫的問題那如果都市計畫因為山東都市計畫就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳議員黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這是自己還沒有成案"},{"start":29663.437,"end":29684.197,"text":"同樣的問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都市計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做"},{"start":29688.024,"end":29705.283,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些"},{"start":29705.883,"end":29723.691,"text":"目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看"},{"start":29724.771,"end":29724.851,"text":"臺中捷運虧損狀態"},{"start":29741.921,"end":29769.669,"text":"捷運虧損從以前的台北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站"},{"start":29770.689,"end":29790.494,"text":"還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才要開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持 行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行"},{"start":29793.497,"end":29821.289,"text":"跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助"},{"start":29822.182,"end":29841.434,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央要全力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以"},{"start":29843.559,"end":29864.95,"text":"院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好 院長謝謝那接下來還是地方先生要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊 這個部長謝謝"},{"start":29867.885,"end":29891.451,"text":"這過去有會堪過就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2觀光人數大館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講個這個比較可憐一點的事情"},{"start":29896.252,"end":29910.558,"text":"我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中可不敢再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情"},{"start":29911.377,"end":29911.497,"text":"主席"},{"start":29930.322,"end":29952.334,"text":"包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科普館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球形的所謂的這個劇場哇那時候很先進啊三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看它的這個影像"},{"start":29953.391,"end":29963.26,"text":"這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理"},{"start":29971.627,"end":29971.827,"text":"主席"},{"start":29987.734,"end":29987.954,"text":"民政事務部長"},{"start":30017.974,"end":30043.044,"text":"怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代台灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方進行的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估"},{"start":30047.54,"end":30065.902,"text":"沒有啦,院長,你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄,我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議,本來不是我們服務處做的我們服務處做的更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結餘款就可以拿來用或是最遲114年要編進去但是我就沒看到"},{"start":30066.443,"end":30066.844,"text":"教育部有沒有什麼計畫?"},{"start":30079.418,"end":30099.09,"text":"跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心這個科博館的一些這個所有的這些的工程包括所有的展示上的一個工程的改善確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的一個規劃會"},{"start":30100.271,"end":30112.65,"text":"那當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空機場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠這個"},{"start":30116.394,"end":30142.211,"text":"有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持那另外也跟委員報告科博館目前他本身這個基金的剩餘也有1億3千多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理那至於這個有關蓋新的大樓總共要大概我今天沒有可以提價的新大樓"},{"start":30143.192,"end":30160.855,"text":"我先沒有提新大樓我先提純粹會議紀錄上的這兩筆而已我跟委員報告的就是說蓋新建的大樓裡邊將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會"},{"start":30162.096,"end":30183.962,"text":"這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊還有1億3千多萬他可以優先來做處理"},{"start":30184.722,"end":30206.935,"text":"我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面"},{"start":30208.218,"end":30220.13,"text":"結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調"},{"start":30221.584,"end":30248.253,"text":"今天是白紙黑字寫的,不是空口說白話,大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天剛剛你提到的這個長管50億,那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提,因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的、簡單的國家預算3兆多裡面這個攸關國家科學發展的一個長管也就是2000多萬,頂多4000萬,不同計畫裡面今天一個設備2000多萬,拿不出來"},{"start":30249.093,"end":30249.113,"text":"部長謝謝"},{"start":30274.338,"end":30294.852,"text":"接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點"},{"start":30300.976,"end":30301.076,"text":"主席"},{"start":30322.566,"end":30346.869,"text":"當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛"},{"start":30347.708,"end":30373.326,"text":"議員長你覺得這有可能嗎雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中啦但是能夠掛在路面上 過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃"},{"start":30373.626,"end":30373.746,"text":"主席"},{"start":30404.227,"end":30405.929,"text":"凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的"},{"start":30425.35,"end":30435.784,"text":"不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好 院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題"},{"start":30437.537,"end":30467.277,"text":"在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年一起要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦"},{"start":30472.598,"end":30494.343,"text":"請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經"},{"start":30495.423,"end":30521.333,"text":"進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似"},{"start":30522.754,"end":30545.401,"text":"可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能啦對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這一個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子"},{"start":30546.161,"end":30563.286,"text":"副部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望因為其實今天少子化我想今年是農年大家看到數據也很驚訝就是說過往少子化理論上不是少子化農年的生育率理論上會退反一下下再往下跌但是今年完全沒有看到這狀況所以這個"},{"start":30565.487,"end":30591.115,"text":"少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫傭放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定放寬他們去請這個所謂外籍的幫傭但是本國籍的是要就像我提到的你必須要有"},{"start":30591.915,"end":30610.345,"text":"三個六歲以下的孩童才能夠去請我想這個對比落差非常大那正常現在多數的家庭誰家裡會有三個六歲以下孩童根本就不可能那不可能的情況下這個法規就形成拒文嘛那我們當然希望說能夠讓雙薪家庭因為現在基本上都是雙薪家庭"},{"start":30610.785,"end":30623.868,"text":"他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書房他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好 院長跟部長"},{"start":30625.336,"end":30627.358,"text":"好 院長謝謝最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題"},{"start":30648.342,"end":30674.797,"text":"先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有5000會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個"},{"start":30678.213,"end":30703.959,"text":"社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億"},{"start":30705.56,"end":30726.111,"text":"所以我想這個數字來講的話其實對於整個這個百萬社宅計畫你等於是拿那個租屋的補貼的計畫來填充阿好 謝謝 謝謝黃建豪委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第20號陳素悅委員請質詢"},{"start":30758.407,"end":30758.707,"text":"主席"},{"start":30777.229,"end":30787.472,"text":"我們知道農業是國家很重要的一部分彰化縣是工業的農工混合大縣在南彰化也是重要的農業生產區目前國土計畫法實施在即"},{"start":30797.555,"end":30822.675,"text":"因為在2015年12月18號在立法院完成三讀之後一直到2016年5月1號在馬英九總統任內即將卸任之前來公告要施行那目前就是要一直按照這個時程在進行當中那隨著這個要實施的這個時間的一個逼近那在地方真的也越來越多人在討論關注這個議題尤其是很多"},{"start":30823.235,"end":30823.435,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":30850.393,"end":30857.201,"text":"國土計劃法實施後﹐農地就要被判死刑﹐農民就永無翻身之日﹐"},{"start":30868.558,"end":30884.892,"text":"請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往的土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響"},{"start":30885.652,"end":30886.133,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":30899.178,"end":30923.215,"text":"以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是"},{"start":30924.235,"end":30943.06,"text":"農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的支持系統"},{"start":30944.221,"end":30963.439,"text":"這個支持系統就是我們看農地絕對不能是看農一農二因為農業不只是生產農業還有很多的農村的生活這個部分我想我們會持續的去規劃跟執行它不會因為國土計畫的一個如期實施或延後而改變以上"},{"start":30965.179,"end":30985.064,"text":"國土計畫法 立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷 確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展"},{"start":30986.844,"end":30988.246,"text":"國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?"},{"start":31006.618,"end":31021.011,"text":"依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展"},{"start":31021.992,"end":31036.733,"text":"但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明"},{"start":31037.173,"end":31059.453,"text":"那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效大家在這個法的精神底下如果去推動讓所有的農地分級之後能夠得到妥適的使用跟他應該保障的農民的權益那目前看起來還有一些縣市我所知道還有9個縣市他們目前還是沒有辦法在這種溝通跟說明之下照時程把分區的溝通圖送過來"},{"start":31060.951,"end":31079.274,"text":"當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展"},{"start":31079.694,"end":31080.054,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":31100.783,"end":31101.023,"text":"民眾疑慮"},{"start":31124.284,"end":31151.379,"text":"那也讓很多有心人士來見縫插針所以就造成地方的紛紛擾擾民心不安所以我覺得說如果一個政策沒有辦法說服民眾說服農民而且這個政策如果說實施之後沒有辦法比以前的這個政策更好的話我們是不是要先緩一緩來在審慎的一個評估之後再來實施院長請內政部回答"},{"start":31152.8,"end":31174.034,"text":"謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理"},{"start":31174.734,"end":31183.7,"text":"目前為止 農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上"},{"start":31200.071,"end":31228.289,"text":"在國土計劃法真正開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走但是對於有關於農地的劃分的部分的話就會像這個委員所說的部分"},{"start":31228.609,"end":31228.809,"text":"總統總量管制﹚"},{"start":31246.152,"end":31246.452,"text":"國土計劃法修正"},{"start":31266.101,"end":31292.602,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":31299.364,"end":31310.327,"text":"國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的話是標準的不一或者是說"},{"start":31311.167,"end":31332.671,"text":"他們委託顧問公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會並沒有做現場的一個會刊所以我們希望說應該要有更多的時間來做這個溝通然後讓民眾的疑慮可以消除所以我們也是希望就是說在這個整個完整的配套沒有到位之前我們還是希望國土計畫法能夠暫緩實施謝謝我們劉部長那接下來"},{"start":31336.792,"end":31336.912,"text":"蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":31355.949,"end":31374.816,"text":"當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽﹚而且都馬上對外宣誓說﹚對農業的損失的現金救助部分﹚要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月﹚快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到這個現金救助甚至是已經被退件"},{"start":31375.456,"end":31375.636,"text":"請部長關心"},{"start":31400.206,"end":31415.821,"text":"我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這次我們是由中央的同仁"},{"start":31425.886,"end":31441.014,"text":"公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有"},{"start":31441.834,"end":31441.894,"text":"因為我還有兩個問題"},{"start":31468.869,"end":31469.009,"text":"流浪犬問題"},{"start":31487.815,"end":31510.815,"text":"在二水有愛護動物的善心人士﹐主動來協助做流浪犬的收容﹐進行結紮﹐然後再回放﹐因為他利用的土地是在林務局的土地﹐目前林務局本來要跟他開罰﹐目前是沒有開單﹐可是要求他要移除﹐"},{"start":31511.696,"end":31539.806,"text":"可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個是變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客 遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都"},{"start":31540.306,"end":31542.048,"text":"最後一個問題就是我們知道就是說在最近兩年"},{"start":31565.109,"end":31565.249,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":31581.643,"end":31581.843,"text":"主席"},{"start":31600.33,"end":31621.773,"text":"所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為偵查不公開的方式我不便說明"},{"start":31623.273,"end":31650.755,"text":"對當然我們尊重偵查部公開當然就是說這個農業部真的是責任重大因為就是關心著這個民生的議題不管是農民的這個農業的生產或者是畜牧業等等真的這個面向非常的廣尤其是面對目前面臨這個極端氣候的一個威脅那真的是我們要做的事情非常的多那我們也希望我們的陳部長要加油是"},{"start":31651.315,"end":31651.596,"text":"陳樹越委員質詢．昨天的備詢"},{"start":31673.083,"end":31687.649,"text":"報告委員會我們本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢我們非常謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長以及各部會首長列席的答詢先來做以下決定下次會議繼續進行施政報告之質詢我們先來散會"}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）","委員發言時間":"08:30:02 - 17:22:00"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}