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報告完畢好 謝謝接下來我們請楊委員窮英質詢巡達時間30分鐘謝謝院會主席"},{"start":1922.176,"end":1922.216,"text":"響鐘委員好"},{"start":1946.98,"end":1963.176,"text":"院長好昨天中午發布了我們的電又在漲在這樣的情況之下告訴我們這一次民生先不漲那一次產業界漲所以本期要請教院長"},{"start":1964.77,"end":1964.85,"text":"主席"},{"start":1985.813,"end":1999.303,"text":"會不會衝擊到我們整個經濟鏈會不會衝擊到物價指數的一個提升請教院長好 三句話第一句台電的財務兩個因素一個是長期售電是在他的成本底下"},{"start":2000.143,"end":2023.822,"text":"第2個因素他負擔了很多政策的補貼的政策作用像是醫院啊學校都由台電來吸收所以我們正式調整第一個我們希望反映成本所以把他的受電電價在工業用戶大戶的這個過程比較接近他的成本但是還是比起我們競爭的其他亞洲鄰近國家還要低一些另外我們希望"},{"start":2025.257,"end":2043.088,"text":"穩定物價還有照顧民生這兩個要同時區塊要達到所以一些小商家小商店傳統產業比較低階的這個部分我們盡量不漲他或許有些只擋到7%希望用這個方式一方面穩定物價一方面反映成本讓財電的成"},{"start":2044.83,"end":2047.392,"text":"你這個由波普之前我們郭部長說"},{"start":2059.589,"end":2081.782,"text":"臺電應該要自給自足但是我們目前所做的是公務部門的一個公務預算撥補第二個把人民當提款機的漲價變相的雖然你在工業的部分漲價但是民生不漲但是會不會影響到我們整個物價指數的提升剛剛你沒回答本席的議題所以本席要請問你"},{"start":2082.722,"end":2101.554,"text":"你能不能答應在你目前的情況之下明年你還會用公務預算撥補嗎明年你還會再漲價嗎 電價請說公務預算的撥補現階段我們還有一個追加預算在大院裡面那是要彌補過去財務的虧損還有重要的現在民生用電的補貼要用這個方向來處理"},{"start":2108.098,"end":2133.472,"text":"民生用電怎麼補貼我們民生用電2點多元遠遠低於現在的發電成本所以總院長你也來自過民意的洗禮過所以你應該更了解所以本席要請問你的就是說目前你的能源政策你的電價是如何的來做第一個漲價第二個用公務預算來補本席要請教到目前為止你這麼做你以後還會這麼做嗎會不會"},{"start":2135.313,"end":2141.477,"text":"會不會?會不會?所以本期一開頭就請問你你工業漲了之後會不會影響物價?會不會?我們拭目以待我從一開始希望得到你的答案未來你會不會還是這兩個方向漲價跟這個公務預算撥補你的方針是不是如此?"},{"start":2161.561,"end":2165.943,"text":"這是現在必須進行的方向 現在必須進行的方向 未來會不會 未來你的方針是不是"},{"start":2176.737,"end":2198.764,"text":"兩年讓財務健全啊 那我們就拭目以待我還是要警惕的 我還是警惕的提醒你要看我們的物價指數 我們的民生生活到底怎麼樣所以請委員支持我們階段性的做法你告訴我們兩年希望給台電的這個債務預算可以好 我們拭目以待所以請委員支持我們階段性的做法 我們才達得到本席請教"},{"start":2202.918,"end":2221.004,"text":"守護下一代我們要謝謝你們接受這個本席的建言因為本席一再關心我們從女性的HPV疫苗的公費施打到目前為止所以也告訴我們女性如果打了這個八成我們就可以考慮"},{"start":2221.804,"end":2224.646,"text":"公費接種HPV疫苗是不是我們在明年開始是不分性別開始施打"},{"start":2241.881,"end":2268.687,"text":"謝謝委員我記得委員已經不只一次提到這樣的問題我們關心下一代而且關心的下一代應該不分性別應該同時關心但是因為這個HPV這個疫苗它有性別上某種的差異所以我們從107年從女性國中女生就開始施打現在不是這樣子告訴我們錢不夠所以女性打了八成我們再來考慮男性這個都過了我們一切感恩請教育營明年"},{"start":2271.207,"end":2299.939,"text":"我們是不是不分男女就打HPV114年國中男生我們為了達到WHO消除子宮腎癌90 70 90這個目標所以在ACIP已經在113年5月24號通過決議要將HPV接種疫苗擴展到國中的男學生所以有關於將國中男學生納入公會補助目前已編列在預算裡面"},{"start":2300.999,"end":2315.269,"text":"這個就是本席要謝謝的因為當時現在的邱部長也是邱立法委員我們一起努力一直推動一直推動這個就是我們一定要好好的來守護但是在施打前我還是建議就明年我們開始"},{"start":2317.671,"end":2319.093,"text":"接下來本席要請教院長"},{"start":2337.273,"end":2354.54,"text":"2025年我看到我們編列的預算927億也就是長照整體預算那所以呢在這樣的一個情況之下我們看到你這個長照逐年一定會增加預算因為我們人口老化非常的嚴重"},{"start":2355.08,"end":2355.4,"text":"律師律師"},{"start":2375.782,"end":2398.98,"text":"院長你有沒有我上個月才剛做好部長你有沒有當然有當然有齁我們要鼓勵大家一定要定期的做健康檢查這個是預防重疑治療那所以呢本校請教你有沒有做骨質疏鬆的一個檢查院長你有沒有這次沒有這次沒有那部長你有嗎這次有嗎"},{"start":2401.251,"end":2423.06,"text":"我也沒有接受過好 我們實質來討論高齡者的沉默殺手就是骨質疏鬆症很多說長者你不要跌倒他不是願意跌倒我們要孝順他就是不平衡骨質疏鬆所以本期再給你一個數字也就是65歲以上民眾的骨質密度"},{"start":2423.84,"end":2445.769,"text":"有一個部位量測出有骨質疏鬆的比例是14.1%換句話說院長7個人就有一個骨質疏鬆7個就有一個我們再看到我們很緊張的也就是說長者萬一跌倒骨折尤其部長理事醫生更清楚他如果臥床"},{"start":2446.429,"end":2447.31,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":2465.56,"end":2469.123,"text":"好 報告委員 我想股松一定要 要防止股松要從右臉的時候"},{"start":2489.15,"end":2491.452,"text":"最怕就是拔豆"},{"start":2519.79,"end":2519.93,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":2548.951,"end":2549.831,"text":"臺灣老化速度是世界第一"},{"start":2574.245,"end":2598.837,"text":"很驚訝很驚訝臺灣老化的速度是世界第一所以我拜託你65歲以上的長者你讓他補職篩檢疏鬆篩檢的納入你絕對可以讓你的長照可以省掉很多的資源以及幫助很多的家庭好不好你去檢討是不是你多久可以告訴我們納入"},{"start":2600.236,"end":2613.282,"text":"只要這個衛福部專業的報告出來之後我們認為有需要我們就來看看裁員怎麼來籌措好 謝謝院長部長多久告訴我們我們馬上回去就把這個議題我們先從65歲以上的長者來做專家多久評估告訴我時間"},{"start":2620.051,"end":2646.549,"text":"我們大概希望在一個月內能夠開會我謝謝部長一個月內你開會有一個方向我們就先從65歲以上的長者來做檢驗好不好就從院長所說的專家認為需要真正可以幫助我們積極來研議謝謝對謝謝院長跟部長的一個支持那所以本席要在這邊要跟你討論的也就是我們的點子問題"},{"start":2648.13,"end":2669.037,"text":"點子問題0.95三黨決議通過在立法院通過院長明年度會不會編組趁現在預算從議的這個階段因為立法院不能增加預算所以在這樣的情況之下是三黨在立院裡頭"},{"start":2670.772,"end":2686.047,"text":"決議通過 我想邱部長你自己本身在第9屆第5次會議的時候你也特別臨時提案希望點子到一血汗醫護啊 這個影響非常的大所以在這樣的情況之下我拜託院長"},{"start":2687.188,"end":2687.909,"text":"我先報告委員再請院長指導"},{"start":2707.318,"end":2734.183,"text":"那我首先感謝大家對醫療環境的改善我想所有的醫界、醫護界都深感感謝您來自醫界阿所以你更了解阿所以你應該要極力去編組阿當然那我真的在這邊非常感謝行政院院長行政院的團隊真的在預算的編列裡面一直積極的來投向以改善我們整個醫療的環境報數明年會不會編組"},{"start":2736.664,"end":2738.405,"text":"請針對本期的提問點值1.0.95現在已經 院長你知道嗎現在有1.0.82欸"},{"start":2763.393,"end":2780.712,"text":"這個嚴重白色巨塔萬一垮掉就沒有人有辦法負責的請告訴我立法院院長不好意思邱部長我要請教院長立法院三黨決議是全民共識是全民共識明年會不會編組1.0.95請教院長"},{"start":2784.175,"end":2801.29,"text":"我知道大院委員是站在為一屆不理屆爭取更多的權益但是我們考量的是今年的這個健保的給付已經相當高額那如果達到1.1塊那是不可能要達到0.95要達到0.95總額預算9000多億已經比去年多了"},{"start":2811.465,"end":2814.787,"text":"院長你這個回答讓我傷心阿邱部長告訴我們0.95你只要增加700億你只要增加700億"},{"start":2834.366,"end":2839.39,"text":"你為了一個能源政策非核家園的神主牌你每一年1000億的公務卻撥補還漲我們當人民當體管機你只要增加700億你可以照顧2300萬的人民你竟然告訴我們我已經9000多了院長你在冷靜的思考我們針對5點0.95的點子"},{"start":2864.21,"end":2880.602,"text":"7百億照顧全國的民眾2300萬人你告訴我逼不出來我會傷心耶人民繳那麼多納稅錢最普遍的資源最公平的分配報告院長換我給你報告你做得來嗎你明年會不會編114億的總額已經增加將近700億了"},{"start":2888.78,"end":2914.067,"text":"所以你現在告訴我的是說你做不來是嗎點子1.0.95明年會不會達到請告訴我報告委員因為從明年的總額實質上已經增加了我們盤算一樣增加了712億其實也符合到達0.95所需要的財務總額次是陳時中部長他從德國拿回來"},{"start":2916.27,"end":2920.075,"text":"這個過程到現在 血汗衣物已經產生社會現象"},{"start":2921.363,"end":2945.325,"text":"院長我還是誠意的建議你趁著現在正在從議預算請你趕快編組明年的1.0.95請注意聽這是在立法院三黨藍綠白全民共識的議決如果連立法院三黨共識的議決行政院都不編"},{"start":2947.523,"end":2961.625,"text":"那這是什麼政府能夠最平均資源去照顧全國的民眾我再一次請教院長明年立法院三讀通過立法院通過的三黨決議"},{"start":2963.147,"end":2967.712,"text":"就目前的財務來看就健保的總額給付來看明年要達到0.95應該有它實際上的困難"},{"start":2979.944,"end":2988.209,"text":"我傷心阿我傷心阿我傷心阿你剛一個行政院長問我錢從哪裡來你這個政府出了什麼事情阿你一方面要提高我們的使用一方面要增加我們的減數這個是絕對矛盾的這個絕對矛盾的邱部長你冷靜"},{"start":3005.479,"end":3022.472,"text":"你不用回答了你絕對站在醫務在全民健康的立場上面請你用你的專業建議給我們卓院長明年編組明年我們有信心達到0.95我們在我們整個醫界的努力之下"},{"start":3022.992,"end":3032.759,"text":"那你怎麼跟卓院長兩個不同調啊?因為卓院長他...你告訴我是明年1點可以1點95是不是?所以邱部長你跟我回答的是明年會達到1點0.95是不是?你告訴我是不是邱部長?我必須...這樣我想...就可以..."},{"start":3050.271,"end":3051.892,"text":"院長你聽院長你聽你聽你的部位首長院長"},{"start":3070.839,"end":3079.384,"text":"他答應朝這個目標他認為可以成功我們本來就朝這個目標啊我們要各方面來努力接下來我們請教來超思現在監察委員說但是我們看到112年9月3號9月3號告訴我們說他不是一人公司"},{"start":3099.053,"end":3126.789,"text":"徐副長你請回但是我們看到監察委員這麼說所以我也請教院長一個人分四三角當時告訴我們這個公司很好50萬可以接收那麼大的一個金額所以請教院長法務部長在這裡吧法務部我要首先院長您聽喔我要請教這個一切都是由農業部代為處理嗎"},{"start":3128.868,"end":3151.519,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下他即可以獲得3800萬的手續費所以請教法務部長整個超時案是不是符合圖令相關的法律要件請教部長有沒有跟委員報告那個超時案現在臺北地檢署在正班中那這個有沒有相關的這個範型我想那個整個臺北地檢署檢察官會妥為"},{"start":3152.259,"end":3153.06,"text":"所以現在檢調在調查當中"},{"start":3168.991,"end":3170.032,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":3187.383,"end":3217.043,"text":"很早在整個採購過程中已經做了行政調查但是行政調查中有關於但這個貿易商的部分我們是主動移情檢調去調查的結果跟監察院長跟監察院查的完全不一樣所以我歡喜聽到院長你說要調查清楚這也是全民共識我們希望勿往勿中也不要誣蔑但是也要還原真相因為一個政府不能再有這樣的事件發生所以我們期待院長你說的調查清楚"},{"start":3217.664,"end":3218.806,"text":"現在我們面臨到這麼多的問題"},{"start":3228.752,"end":3248.443,"text":"不管是都市人口集中在整個我們的土地正義以及行政的部分在22縣市最來位現在還有9個縣市他還沒有送上來甚至有去做調整的在這樣的情況之下內政部長曾經在我們的內政委員會我問他他說這個有必要延"},{"start":3249.643,"end":3271.512,"text":"他說認為有必要言所以我們現在國土法目前為您大的困境中央跟地方有9個縣市還沒有提所以換句話說溝通還沒有好第二個我們農業發展的地區有很多相關的條件不符尤其在六都裡頭縣市合併之後差距非常的大在這樣的一個情況那麼接下來就是"},{"start":3272.492,"end":3292.119,"text":"重疊的部分重疊的部分如農地跟我們的國保地重疊的區域要怎麼做處理現在還不清不楚所以本席要請教國土法的實施目的是要在未來的土地要有正義它有很重要的代表性這是一個非常重要的大工程 是嗎"},{"start":3292.759,"end":3293.24,"text":"會不會延後實施"},{"start":3314.345,"end":3328.742,"text":"國土法的實施有它法定的時程我們原來應該要照這個時程來進行但目前我們遇到困難成都委員所說有9個縣市並沒有向這個功能圖表送上來所以沒有辦法現在做一個統一整合的規劃"},{"start":3329.523,"end":3335.387,"text":"法律條文本身一億的部分也在做試圖的說明跟溝通好像這個進展目前來看是受到很多的挑戰"},{"start":3350.857,"end":3375.169,"text":"所以我充分建議院長在溝通未完成地方政府還沒有辦法送上來的時候我們應當要延後執行你認同嗎但是早一天能夠將國土有效的整體運用還沒有溝通之前當然這是我們的目標但是在沒有溝通執行者也不知道怎麼執行民眾也非常恐慌我們應該要延後你可以認同嗎"},{"start":3376.348,"end":3404.237,"text":"我是希望 國會延後內政部 農業部還是繼續跟地方溝通當然要溝通時間的掌握現在對我們來講是非常困難的是有困難的你也認定是有困難在明年4月內政部長也認為在內政委員會也認為有困難所以本期具體再次建議也就是在溝通未完成的時候那應該要延後執行那因為國土法本身有重大的意義有意義的工作通常都比較困難但是我們還是直接進行"},{"start":3405.977,"end":3420.24,"text":"請市長稍微回答一下我們一個結論 就是在溝通會完成之前 請院長 延後質詢我跟委員報告 我們今天有一個議會 在進行溝通當中那個嘉義市跟苗栗縣已經都同意要送來所以請回來 對不對時間暫停啊 你要還我20秒來那個 市長請回"},{"start":3429.161,"end":3431.604,"text":"接下來我要請問臺中藍縣捷運拼2034年 院長我們這一條藍色捷運等好久好久好久好久十幾年"},{"start":3452.984,"end":3480.7,"text":"我們的交通部長林交通部長來自臺中現任的部長也來自臺中他當議員的時候也全力支持嘛 對不對陳部長你也是全力推動所以我們好不容易好不容易兩週前旅刊了那麼昨天我也在我們的這個工程會也跟主委討論過我要請教我們修正完成之後送到這個這個工程會來院長你是不是指示盡速審定完成"},{"start":3481.728,"end":3485.523,"text":"讓我們可以在2034年如期的來通車請教"},{"start":3487.317,"end":3492.078,"text":"陳部長你要清楚一點啦不是這樣子的工程會昨天你答應我在10月底以前把他審議完均是嗎"},{"start":3514.482,"end":3515.583,"text":"10月底可以完成基本設計的審查"},{"start":3529.653,"end":3530.233,"text":"議員長好嗎 你來督促好嗎"},{"start":3552.113,"end":3560.523,"text":"一切都要按照目前的進度循序進行進行到最後已經到了像剛剛主委所說的這個程度"},{"start":3562.003,"end":3587.491,"text":"那當然就會進到另外一個成熟期我們就往回前推所以你督促我們專案我也謝謝工程會工程會跟交通部都很用心來做這個事情全力來把它完成10月底我們審議完成然後我們在今年年底可以實質工程進度陳部長這也是我們一起大家努力推動的我們來努力全力努力接下來我要問台中舊三線鐵道副使鐵馬先行"},{"start":3588.581,"end":3612.87,"text":"我相信陳部長在當時當議員的時候不管縣議員市議員都全力的推動而且在林佳龍部長的時候他也全力去看過李孟苑部長也去看過王國才部長也都去看過院長大家去看過都說這個是臺灣的寶貝美的不得了所以我們一定要全力推動但是經過了三個部長到現在第四個部長"},{"start":3613.55,"end":3615.652,"text":"臺中舊三線鐵道以舊泰安鐵道文化園區還有泰安溪鐵橋8號隧道"},{"start":3629.326,"end":3629.906,"text":"請教請教我們院長"},{"start":3657.895,"end":3670.553,"text":"鐵道復始 鐵馬先行事關我們地方的發展跟觀光我們預估一年可以十幾萬的人觀光客進度到我們的地方來這是我們地方期待請教院長要不要全力的支持"},{"start":3675.151,"end":3701.091,"text":"地方上好的一個觀光的產業跟它的整個整體規劃都是政府在推動觀光重要的過程那至於說地方上像是鐵道、富士、鐵馬先行這樣的方式請部長來說一下是我想這一段其實有一段已經是有鐵馬了這邊其實我自己也去騎過非常的漂亮那你說前面有三個部長到那邊看過我也再陪您再看一次我們繼續來推動好不好"},{"start":3701.271,"end":3705.413,"text":"我希望拜託院長跟我去看不要三位部長看完都說很好全力支持數字好不容易已經出來現在就由"},{"start":3728.227,"end":3749.379,"text":"現任的陳部長來接棒 把他完成 競速完成好嗎 院長我請部長來規劃 那整個過程我們去做深入的瞭解好 深入的瞭解就是權力的支持嘛 對不對我們也希望將這個好消息告訴我們的地方因為除了我們的鐵道活化 還要增加觀光人數我要再次的謝謝我也要再次的好 謝謝謝謝王委員 謝謝卓院長"},{"start":3758.769,"end":3782.29,"text":"接下來請吳秉瑞委員質詢主席麻煩請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":3792.639,"end":3814.875,"text":"副委員好 院長早 跟你請教對於中國的經濟狀況 前一陣子惡化的很嚴重包括大家都知道他的幾個大的房地產公司都出問題 有的甚至已經被清算要倒閉"},{"start":3817.866,"end":3845.352,"text":"所以這個房地產有這個暴跌的情況我以前常常開玩笑說全世界打房最成功的國家就是中國他把房價打到腰斬甚至還沒有人要這是當然是一個笑話那再來就是說第二個就是他的國家無論中央或地方的這個債務都暴增那今年的失業率高漲有一陣子還蓋牌還不講不讓人家知道當然他現在的數據提出來都是美化"},{"start":3846.138,"end":3872.157,"text":"那之前一年多還有通貨緊縮的這樣的狀況然後再加上他又弄了一大堆的國安法案比如說亂抓台灣人啊然後他發生了這個深圳啊還有這個中國發生好幾件殺害這殺害這外國外國人的這些事件那使得很多的外資包括台資也都一直在撤離"},{"start":3873.278,"end":3887.333,"text":"這個是他之前的經濟狀況狀況很嚴重但是他上個禮拜他現在弄了一個非常猛的藥這個猛的藥猛到什麼地步呢猛到"},{"start":3888.376,"end":3915.726,"text":"我舉其中我覺得蠻離譜的就是他的央行可以循環借貸讓人去買進股票增持自己的股票為了要讓他的股市上漲不要跌居然讓央行直接間接的進入股市那這個當然短期內會很有效果但是其實這就是所謂的無毛印鈔了他的貨幣供給量"},{"start":3917.403,"end":3941.563,"text":"沒有一個根據不停的在增加所以大水漫灌短期可能會有一些效果果然這幾天看到上海的重症跟這個香港的股市的確都有大幅反彈的這樣的跡象但是這個是短期跡象如果你沒有實質內容支撐撐不下去的"},{"start":3944.12,"end":3946.421,"text":"所以我現在就是要請教那到底面對中國這樣的經濟情勢"},{"start":3971.394,"end":3999.064,"text":"我覺得他這一次的這個大水漫灌之後的這個將來的通膨更可以預期了將來資產能不能撐得住不知道但是通膨是絕對可以看得到的後果我想了解的是台灣到底在中國有多少的投資跟多少的這個產業上面現在的狀況是如何能夠幫助他們能夠離開這一個不合理的這個經營環境"},{"start":4005.479,"end":4009.808,"text":"委員一直很關心 不只是臺灣 包括兩岸的經濟狀況"},{"start":4012.042,"end":4031.679,"text":"冰凍三尺非一日之寒如果一個人質色彩這麼重又用軍國主義對外在擴張那本身又是黨國控制雖然它經過經濟的崛起數十年來有一定的程度但是這幾個因素一直存在的話它必須必定面臨很嚴重的社會衝擊那現在已經來臨了"},{"start":4033.3,"end":4056.981,"text":"下任何的猛躍到後來都可能是一個沒有辦法回頭的畸形發展台灣在很多的產業因為跟中國有非常密切的過去的連結跟關係我們也無法一時間把它斷絕但是我們也知道有很多的產業包括金融體系都有很多的在中國的投資甚至很多的曝險但這個很多基於這個"},{"start":4059.022,"end":4083.248,"text":"銀業上產業上的我們也不宜在這邊多說但是我是認為我們的經濟部我們的金管會都有相當的掌握我了解說你知道這樣的危機有沒有在做準備因應經濟部跟金管會都有這些投資的對象本國的產業都有相當的掌握當然有的跟不是那麼直接相關跟在場的兩位部長"},{"start":4084.69,"end":4100.283,"text":"像9月25號臺灣的34項農產品他又給你停止零關稅他老是拿他的這些經貿上面的這些惡劣的手段來當他政治上面他的攻防做政治上面的目的操作這一點"},{"start":4101.502,"end":4126.576,"text":"除了這三四項之後﹖後面可能還會繼續再來﹖我們政府有準備要怎麼樣子的我們清楚說這個除了用經濟的壓迫之外﹖它還有政治的選擇﹖比如開放某一個地方指定哪一個地方可以﹖或是要求哪一個地方不可以﹖這個是政治上的選擇﹖這個是你我都了解的﹖我現在是要問說政府準備要怎麼樣子面對跟因應"},{"start":4127.868,"end":4147.465,"text":"這一點能夠報告經濟部我們都每次他有這個動作之前之後我們都掌握後來也有一些作為甚至我們有預留了一些該有的做法但是不一定每次都會拿出來用請經濟部來談一下報告委員我想我們在經濟部裡面已經在之前就已經有成立這個投資台灣事務所"},{"start":4148.546,"end":4171.276,"text":"執行歡迎臺商回臺投資方案基於這個方案 我想剛才這個委員所講的這個農業的這個問題我們面對這個問題幫助臺灣的這些產業希望他能夠在加值的這個活動轉向其他的這個市場不要只是看這個中國的市場這一點我們有積極在做"},{"start":4172.276,"end":4197.185,"text":"是 那剛剛問的這個農產品事項 我知道你的那個標準當然應該就是移轉市場嘛齁 那我們就是 如果中國這個是不是一個好的市場 我們也可以轉到別的市場去 但是那個是比較長期的短期之間馬上就受害 因為他常常不跟你磋商 就突然之間提出一個這樣作為這個攻擊的武器啊 那不知道陸委會跟農業部這邊有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":4198.095,"end":4215.206,"text":"我跟委員報告就是其實中國的市場是一個高風險的市場從100年開始他除了用不符合國際貿易的暫停我們的輸出還用所謂的那個輸送食品的註冊所以這三四年來其實我們已經積極的開拓中國以外的高端市場"},{"start":4215.706,"end":4241.151,"text":"我舉個實際的數字就是在109年的時候我們中國以外的市場的產值是38.6億到了去年的話是43.6億大概整整的多了5億那同一個時間我們對中國的輸出的部分已經降到了5億左右所以相對的就是說我們對中國市場的依賴程度也越來越少"},{"start":4241.901,"end":4261.258,"text":"當然我剛剛講的長期是你一定是要分散風險然後要到比較高端那當然我們自己的產品比如說冷鏈的建構使我們的產品能夠更優質也才有辦法賣到更高端的市場這長期是對的但是對於短期的因應阿對於這些馬上受損的這些人有什麼樣子的做法"},{"start":4263.06,"end":4277.43,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛講臺商面臨到空前的中國大陸的這個整個系統性的危機我們有三個做法那第一個部分當然就是讓他來回臺投資轉型升級"},{"start":4278.23,"end":4303.173,"text":"也協助他全球布局這就是剛剛您也提到這個人身的安全的風險這個在大陸這個風險是明顯提高那我們除了海基會跟他們保持聯繫關懷之外我們陸委會也希望我們臺商或是臺幹或是他的眷屬臺生還有臺師在中國大陸的我們的臺灣人去中國大陸"},{"start":4303.814,"end":4305.595,"text":"這個呼籲全世界都在跟他講叫他不要傾銷"},{"start":4327.992,"end":4344.383,"text":"你的製造業人你這個無限制的專注在哪個領域全用國家的力量去投資然後傾銷全世界全世界都在跟他呼籲這個國家是蠻不講理的國家這個政府是沒有不合理的政府對中國不要抱這樣的期望必須要在知道說他是會做最壞的選擇之下我們要怎麼做"},{"start":4346.664,"end":4347.204,"text":"好那我來你們"},{"start":4375.896,"end":4379.946,"text":"委員長不好意思請幾個部長先回座我請今晚會主委來回答一下"},{"start":4383.101,"end":4405.893,"text":"金管會請你要說明最近金融機構在中國的監理政策之前他曾經講到我們這邊要增資或是在他那邊這個營業額超過50%以上的都只要他在別的市場要幹嘛都要經過他的同意這個聽說雷聲大雨點響但是到現在他也沒有核准郭一家那台灣這些所謂的KY這些公司怎麼辦"},{"start":4407.923,"end":4420.29,"text":"這變成兩個公婆啊受我們的管理然後又要受他的管理使得他很多的財政的模式沒有辦法處理那這個問題現在有解決的方案嗎"},{"start":4421.78,"end":4441.811,"text":"現在我們對在大陸的這些的曝險特別我先跟委員報告一下就先從金融機構來講的話我們現在是希望他能夠持續的關注風險然後下降這個比率我想過去幾年來這個都非常的顯著我想從很多數據都看得出來"},{"start":4442.611,"end":4445.251,"text":"負險的比例 譬如說國有銀行負險的比例是在下降但是他的總體金額還是很高"},{"start":4472.277,"end":4473.887,"text":"因為我們大家的這幾年我們經濟發達資本"},{"start":4476.363,"end":4503.881,"text":"弄得很高的時候所以那個比例下降很大的因素是因為我們的BASE大了那但是他原來的他的那個額度還是蠻高的對最高的時候到一兆八千多億現在是大概九千六百億左右九千六百億也是一個很大的錢對但是就是相對的我們整個承受力因為當年大概是比如說最高曾經來到淨值的70%嘛那時候我們的那個淨值才2.2兆現在到了4.6兆對啊所以BASE等於擴大了一倍啊"},{"start":4504.381,"end":4528.496,"text":"對我們還是持續的在下降這個其實我覺得這是一個風險還有就是我們整個產業隨著政策往其他國家我現在不是只有要提醒中國現在香港被美國參眾兩院在去年12月通過國防授權法把它列為海外敵對勢力然後9月10號美國的眾議院又通過了香港經濟貿易辦公室的認證法這個認證法是很厲害的"},{"start":4534.226,"end":4562.612,"text":"他等於要取消香港在美國三個考慮要取消住在那邊的辦公單位那再來就是參議院如果通過現在眾議院已經通過了參議院如果通過再來就是美國總統要不要批准在這樣的狀況下這是很有可能通過的我們或許對中國的這個曝險是一件事台灣有多少銀行"},{"start":4564.091,"end":4575.485,"text":"不論是公股的或是民間的在香港有這麼多的辦事機構在香港逐漸變成中國的內地城市的這個演變的過程中我們的因應方式"},{"start":4576.567,"end":4604.102,"text":"以及我們所要面臨的風險這個有沒有考慮在內在上個會期的時候委員在委員會上也有指證這件事情我們回去就把那個把中國跟香港一併考慮上是有本來是分開來處理像我們對香港的部分我們也開始有做一些比較嚴密的這些的考慮像剛剛那個委員提到我們現在在香港國營的部分大概有19家大概設有19家這個分行一家子行"},{"start":4605.587,"end":4618.555,"text":"保險只有兩個據點相對的這部分確實是比較多我們的證券相關行業的加速就更多那是過去有一些金融市場歷史的因素我想這部分我們也持續透過很多方式提醒他們風險的改變這我們會持續來做"},{"start":4622.637,"end":4635.057,"text":"那你有掌握我們台灣在香港掛牌的上市公司有多少嗎?我們現在台資在香港掛牌大概有61家那其中有12家是上市櫃公司同時在那邊做有11家是上櫃公司"},{"start":4637.841,"end":4638.341,"text":"我們會很關心台灣金融市場的體質跟健全"},{"start":4667.387,"end":4673.729,"text":"還有臺灣的臺商也非常的敏感像我們歡迎臺商回臺投資的行動方案就已經有超過300家臺商帶1.3兆的資金回臺"},{"start":4714.349,"end":4720.794,"text":"好,謝謝國務委員還有卓院長下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢主席我們請這個院長跟衛福部部長"},{"start":4740.827,"end":4744.449,"text":"請左院長備詢,還有外府部部長政務委員好這個部長我為你感到很擔心"},{"start":4760.609,"end":4761.59,"text":"可不可能"},{"start":4781.567,"end":4782.508,"text":"報告委員 因為行政院也很"},{"start":4797.399,"end":4816.792,"text":"盡力在幫忙所以醫界非常感動所以醫界也會全力以赴在分級醫療在各種醫療的制度來努力來配合前面配合完成沒有問題今年6月健保點資要達到0.95那預算就編進來吧院長這個我們做的預算這個也是一個原因之一"},{"start":4817.832,"end":4823.516,"text":"前一陣子總統那邊剛剛發生一個事情現在院長這邊又這樣好像打臉的話我為一個可能這個這麼關心醫界又了解醫療體系的部長感到擔心"},{"start":4848.13,"end":4865.177,"text":"我們這個臺灣的醫療是相當的有名這全世界也算是可受信任的沒問題吧部長我們醫療的人才醫療的科技發展可以說是世界級的"},{"start":4865.879,"end":4866.039,"text":"入客到金門"},{"start":4885.512,"end":4886.634,"text":"幾月開始幾號開始你知道嗎"},{"start":4898.817,"end":4900.679,"text":"昨年7月到今年5月光光"},{"start":4925.543,"end":4953.601,"text":"光是以這個醫療的這個簽證來到金門的人數有多少人你知道嗎以就醫的大陸大陸地區的這個人民用小山通道金門來就醫啊至少有331件500多件這算是接近了那原因是什麼事實上我們金門醫療是缺乏的但是為什麼大陸人民還願意到金門來就醫你知道嗎 院長"},{"start":4954.962,"end":4968.796,"text":"相對比較一方面觀光一方面就醫但是我們金門醫療也不會比下門進步阿為什麼他要到金門來就醫有我們的特色有我們的專科阿什麼特色好像是在生殖醫學方面"},{"start":4975.704,"end":4986.118,"text":"國內醫療體系除了健保以外做人生殖醫學是自費的他們自己要花錢我們台灣的醫療又是比較進步而且獲得信任的所以我們應該要發揮這方面的優勢"},{"start":4989.582,"end":5011.49,"text":"建保典值是全民的這個醫療嘛這個醫療平權大家都應該照顧到所以應該要盡力幫醫界爭取這個不然我們的醫護人員實在是血汗醫護非常辛苦但是在我們有優勢的部分我們可以用自費的吸引全世界各地來的那因為金門的地理位置的關係當然大陸吸引人過來這個這個部分呢這個是應該是可以這個再加強的嘛對吧"},{"start":5013.328,"end":5014.309,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5033.779,"end":5037.12,"text":"陸委會有什麼規劃目前什麼想法陸委會沒有陸委會一直都很支持金門"},{"start":5056.529,"end":5075.282,"text":"您是院長,一院之長,您的最高行政首長的想法最重要我想只要對金門老百姓有好處,那兼顧國家安全只要能夠復國立民的政策,我們對於金門我知道你都支持,我要請問我們卓院長,卓院長這個部分支持嗎?"},{"start":5076.991,"end":5095.075,"text":"我認為我們現在有一個離島建設條例所以委員有提到如果是醫療的部分是不是要請衛福部跟國發會來再進一步的研究看看如何在這個條例底下有沒有必要做什麼樣的調整幫助金門地區這一方面的醫療專區醫療產業的發展這是正向的嗎"},{"start":5102.012,"end":5102.232,"text":"贊用台灣的醫療這個優勢"},{"start":5123.366,"end":5144.914,"text":"我會請衛福部跟國發會來看看如何對金門地區的這個醫療產業能夠有幫忙的那在現行這個離島健身條例底下如何來發展這個方向如果離島健身條例有不足的地方我們應該來做適度的修改吧我一直覺得法令不足我們適度的鬆綁法例那是現在政府重要的工作"},{"start":5145.674,"end":5170.247,"text":"謝謝院長 謝謝您的承諾我們來提一下另外一個就是有關醫療平權這個部分這個我想請問衛福部長 其他部長可以請回這個有一個衛福推了一個住院友善照護公聘制度就是住院整合照護示範計畫就是照護公聘這個制度您知道吧就是4個病患集資每個人付1200元一天4800元可以一起照護衛福有這個計畫對吧"},{"start":5174.184,"end":5189.792,"text":"是的這個計畫經過幾年的一個推行現在效果反應很好但是因為金門我們也非常希望有這樣的一個服務可是他是需要那個照護員在金門也請不到照護員所以我們一定要協助齁"},{"start":5197.457,"end":5202.687,"text":"金門醫院來擬聘人力的聘用方案所以你有沒有什麼具體的計畫這個有關這個醫療平權這個要住院整合照護計畫制度"},{"start":5209.178,"end":5228.476,"text":"我們在114年有特別要加強這個部分那招募人力的計畫因為你們有沒有相關的獎勵計畫讓有一些人願意到離島來從事這樣的工作我以前事實上也提過或者是當地人願意因為這個照護員的待遇是比較在這裡是比較好的然後所以願意轉做這個照護員的工作"},{"start":5229.456,"end":5252.902,"text":"事實上人力是還是有,當地不是沒有人我真的非常敬佩委員,過去對金門各種醫療、人民的照顧非常的周全那也關係到這個部分,這個真的是也可以幫助病人所以我們一定會全力來推展這個計畫我們希望明年就能夠讓金門上路這樣子可以喔,明年是114年嘛,114年就要上路所以你如果說招募到人有可能是"},{"start":5253.522,"end":5254.263,"text":"明年一定會上路吧"},{"start":5271.48,"end":5294.225,"text":"我們想盡辦法讓他上路 照顧金門民眾那院長明天這兩天颱風那您知道現在金門機場還有很多人回不了臺灣嗎早上的訊息還有100多名的旅客還在排會當中我想現在有沒有稍微疏散那這個"},{"start":5296.746,"end":5311.477,"text":"這個齁其實不是只有颱風天對金門人來講這個不是只有颱風天起霧啦年節啦三不五時下去又10月10號啦又是連假啦齁都一直發生這樣的情形金門機場永遠有好多人回不了家而且這邊大部分是"},{"start":5313.098,"end":5313.138,"text":"主席"},{"start":5328.779,"end":5353.474,"text":"甚至曾經有一次天氣起霧是大學生要來台灣考試那時候是推真就是考試幾百個高中生台灣考大學因為起霧沒有飛完全沒有辦法到台灣來考試一輩子就考這一次這事情非常嚴重常年在發生後來那一次怎麼解決交通部長知道嗎"},{"start":5355.396,"end":5365.211,"text":"這個應該是前年,那時候是王國才當部長你知道這件事情嗎?你知道嗎?你知道常年發生這樣的事情嗎?"},{"start":5366.214,"end":5394.345,"text":"這個我大概有聽說就是起霧啦那個什麼天氣像這種颱風天啦年假啦過年啦哇 這個實在是金門的心中一直沒有辦法解決的痛那 院長您您知道這個金門 離島 三個離島金馬棚離島到台灣島這個這個之間這個交通工具是什麼您知道嗎除了飛機以外除了飛機我們還有海運有海運哪一個地方有海運馬祖馬祖有 還有呢"},{"start":5395.216,"end":5402.362,"text":"澎湖部長您知道嗎澎湖跟馬祖有齁有啊金門勒金門目前是沒有為什麼"},{"start":5403.558,"end":5405.48,"text":"那難道到金門能會比到澎湖或是甚至比到馬祖少嗎?到馬祖觀光人沒有比到金門多欸"},{"start":5430.143,"end":5455.224,"text":"馬祖你們怎麼做朋友你們怎麼做部長朋友你們怎麼做馬祖你們怎麼做你們補助他們建船對不對還補助他們20年的營運的這個費用對不對讓這個船可以平常如果他自己營運他這樣營運不起來你讓馬祖跟朋友都這樣可以自由的就是給他一條船然後接著給他這個營運20年的補助費用讓這個船可以這樣正常的走像昨天"},{"start":5456.445,"end":5478.69,"text":"這幾天颱風吧其實我們金門的補助也是有但是是針對假期啦應該委員知道針對什麼例如說中秋節或一些連假那什麼如果有船運的需求的時候我們會跟縣政府來合作該補助中央會補助是你說的是臨時的吧那時候今年就有啊釣不到船啊那船跑去走澎湖啊他不願意來走金門啊"},{"start":5479.89,"end":5504.291,"text":"那是澎湖的船很快的嘛他要走澎湖他不要來走金馬上次考大學生那一次你們出面也不願意我還親自去拜託那個老闆說拜託你就幫我們走這一趟所以高中生才可以到台灣來考大學你們出面人家也不要幫我們還要自己再去再次請託拜託完以後我事後又拿了很大的一瓶高粱酒去送他那我想請問這個不是解決的方法嗎"},{"start":5505.698,"end":5522.194,"text":"我們不是人質的社會 我們要制度化那這個金馬鵬來講 金馬鵬 馬祖跟鵬都有這樣的運輸船這不是只是說天氣或是年假的時候運輸需要其實這也對公關很有幫助"},{"start":5522.975,"end":5549.534,"text":"像比如說現在的這個離島的這個機票事實上是對非居民來講是蠻高的來回大概要五千塊那這個事實上也會影響到現在很多人願意出國因為出國的機票可以沒那麼貴那也影響到金門地區的觀光發展啊所以你們是不是我們金門縣政府也有提出來啊我們需要一台那個台金輪啊你們可以給馬祖這個台馬輪可以給澎湖這個台澎輪為什麼不能給我們一條台金輪呢"},{"start":5550.23,"end":5550.731,"text":"那個不是今年才開始一直都有"},{"start":5567.11,"end":5569.932,"text":"備言船有沒有發揮作用今年要備言的時候他說船是在"},{"start":5588.388,"end":5605.423,"text":"彭胡不願意開過來啊,被人他open了嘛,開口氣,他可以要他可以不要嘛,他可以不賺這個錢啊彭胡的比較近啊,比較好賺啊,人家要賺彭胡的啊,我們理解嘛那這個不是強制久安之道嗎?盡量跟業者溝通,其他方法就不行每一次都發生事情再來溝通嘛"},{"start":5606.488,"end":5627.459,"text":"等你溝通溝通溝通他又不願意的時候我們要出門又去溝通等他願意的時候天氣又變化又開不了像以今天來講以今天來講明天颱風昨天100多個人滯留在金門機場這些大部分事實上除了要來這邊就醫的我們基本相信很多都是台灣的人台灣鄉親台灣島的人他們是要回家回不了家"},{"start":5628.599,"end":5655.325,"text":"那不能常常發生這樣的事情嘛所以長治久安者那像如果在馬祖在澎湖遇到重慶他們晚上開船明天早上到所以很多人就可以做他的行程規劃嘛今天如果是院長勒其實上次應該上次有一次王國才部長要去金門的時候還是林佳龍部長林佳龍部長對不對你也要去你也遇到大霧啊對不對你是不是跟我在那個宣傳機場也等很久連部長自己都沒有辦法坐飛機都無機可乘"},{"start":5658.876,"end":5673.806,"text":"第一 如果是天後不可抗力的 那我們大概很難在短時間來做處理剛剛如果提的就是比方說是考試 我覺得考試在金門地區如果能跟大家方便的方式 我們應該來想"},{"start":5674.867,"end":5693.721,"text":"不需要那如果是你﹖請問你遇到那個考試那怎麼辦一年考試推薦喔推薦是要到臺灣各個大學去參加入學考試那天還剛好不知道為什麼6月份還起大霧若是國家重要的考試能不能在金門有一個方便讓大家不需要這樣有這種風險的方式那怎麼做"},{"start":5694.221,"end":5695.162,"text":"先從大型的國家考試考慮金門如果可以"},{"start":5710.869,"end":5730.299,"text":"這個已經有在做了謝謝您我已經有跟考試院設國家堂這個我已經知道那像比如說這種你也想做重心怎麼會遇到就剛好那時候天氣就起大霧那一天就是沒有辦法開所有的學生幾百個學生高中生都沒有辦法參加過兩天6月18、19的考試如果你的小孩子在那邊明天要參加考試人到不了台灣你要怎麼辦"},{"start":5731.189,"end":5756.643,"text":"當然很著急啦除非是改時間除非是能夠讓這些學生們能夠改時間改時間 各個學校的面試怎麼改時間或者是以後我們可以用科技的方式來進行等一下 你說以後所以他由北到南所有大學全部因為進門考生沒有辦法考另外那些面試老師再花一個時間讓他們好沒關係 你如果願意做這樣承諾教育部有聽到"},{"start":5757.483,"end":5785.744,"text":"我是說我們可以想這個方式或是用更科技不是不是的確有可能會發生到前面就發生了所以說以後比如說國家考試那一天是有一個要考那一天還有一個是考好像是金融方面的考試吧好像也是定哪一天然後也是又天氣又起霧又沒辦法過來這種怎麼辦一樣就是說以後你只要願意下這個政策我也可以接受以後金門的居民如果遇到這種重大考試因為天氣沒有辦法過來另外幫他們排時間這個我接受了"},{"start":5786.284,"end":5799.138,"text":"這個很好 這個不能完全 我說如果重大的國家考試一輩子一次的高普考是不是中大考試或者一輩子一次的大學考試是不是入學考試是不是中大考試應該金門會很方便有考場吧這是舉例啦 我請問你嘛"},{"start":5800.885,"end":5801.065,"text":"長治久安："},{"start":5819.145,"end":5840.467,"text":"跟這個之前我也是一直在思考這個問題想說我們金門飛機也很多吧然後也一桌有280班是是非常多事實上對每一天有每一天有快100班啦80班100班但是就是因為這麼多所以只要天氣一爆影響就非常大就整個機場永遠有人在抗議然後每個人都會叫我們要出面去解決所以這個變成而且"},{"start":5842.412,"end":5867.812,"text":"對機場的對金門的形象早上那些滯留在金門的旅客現在趕快想辦法這個叫做治標我要考慮治本的事情那比如說留在金門就會被我們金門的形象造成很差的影響現在大部分我想在座每個人都會想說到金門是不是有可能從金門三日遊變成關島五日遊啊所以大家就會擔心嘛那去金門就會所以我不要讓我們金門有這樣的印象所以我覺得你們真的應該去思考"},{"start":5868.613,"end":5892.909,"text":"去弄一條台金輪,可以去研究嗎?不是不是,不只還有幫助觀光產業的發展然後我們金門縣政府也已經在去年就來來來,部長您聽一下去年就已經代會交通部航港局有提出來了也在去年10月5號有提報要爭取的我們想我們金門縣政府也願意說如果你們願意出一點錢,我們也可以出一點錢"},{"start":5894.189,"end":5896.891,"text":"縣政府以及金門的居民如果認為這個是一個迫切需要的那我認為交通部應該跟他們去研議這個事情"},{"start":5914.059,"end":5941.253,"text":"公務員已經來了,部長有看到嗎?有,我跟縣政府一起來研議這件事是不是看看怎麼做,或者經費上大家怎麼來出嘛對不對,如果你們錢不夠你們先幫我們出,我們現在沒錢不然我們可以多寄一些金門高粱酒過來換金門縣政府的財政狀況算不錯不好,現在越來越不好,但是我們還是有酒我們可以某一個酒窖就專門包給交通部這個就是你們慢慢取用,沒有關係,你們幫我們造一條船,這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":5941.929,"end":5963.183,"text":"我們跟縣政府來演繹你跟縣政府好好研究一下我想請教一下院長你有看到賴總統前幾天有一個影片總統叫大家說這個影片你有看到嗎?瓊總親上火線錄節目這個你有看到這個影片嗎?"},{"start":5964.155,"end":5970.897,"text":"總統在主持總統府全社會防衛任性的這個會議當中會有一些專家學者的建議等等那我們也認為這不一定是戰爭我們就很多我想請教他在這個上面那個臥槽"},{"start":5989.821,"end":5995.454,"text":"沒錯嘛 你知道嗎 這個是在幫臥草錄製的 你知道嗎臥草 上面有一個右上方有臥草兩個字有沒有"},{"start":5997.211,"end":6021.747,"text":"臥槽有沒有他這個不是在總統府的官方網站欸他是在一個當然總統府我後來去查證了賴清德總統喔他有在他的臉書大家如果沒看到去他的臉書看一下臉書有後來我還確認這個不是假訊息他在這個臥槽幫這個臥槽這個什麼單位啊我不知道是什麼單位臥槽您知道這個組織嗎您知道這個東西嗎是臥槽臥槽弄的啊"},{"start":6022.427,"end":6029.492,"text":"這是一個網路的媒體公司把影片放下來第一個這有幾個問題啊我們先內容等一下討論第一個他幫一個網路的媒體公司錄影片那是他抓他臉書上的影片下來"},{"start":6037.398,"end":6038.299,"text":"震板是沒有臥槽的"},{"start":6068.338,"end":6081.485,"text":"院長看了有什麼想法總統要傳達的是一個我們在大型的災難之後全民要做一些對自己以及對周遭環境所以說的可能是天災比如說颱風啊比如說地震啊是不是這是你幫總統詮釋的還是他的想法"},{"start":6087.318,"end":6113.169,"text":"全社會防衛韌性就是這個意思可是這個很奇怪國家防災日是在前一天他譬如是在國家防災日放出這個影片9月都是國家防災月你知道他後面說了什麼我也是其實我剛開始也是跟你一樣的想法說這個是不是地震天災颱風的時候總統講的結果後來最後你知道他最後你有看到影片看到最後嗎我有整個看完看了好多遍你知道他的內容看到最後嗎"},{"start":6114.485,"end":6116.846,"text":"報告我最近經常到花蓮去那這樣類似的話我也常講"},{"start":6141.227,"end":6163.602,"text":"什麼這樣類似的話就是我們的自己國家要自己救自己的地方要自己維護那自己地方沒有問題自己地方自己維護這當然沒有問題阿那這是一個表達的所以好來好那沒關係你如果可以幫忙澄清也很好齁就是說總統錄這個不是說因為是因為戰爭可能戰爭這個很重要您公開講清楚不要讓民進黨這個我也可以接受您說吧"},{"start":6163.922,"end":6166.063,"text":"所以如果發生像今天颱風哪一天地震的時候這個有需要民防隊出動嗎是嗎"},{"start":6186.359,"end":6202.677,"text":"昨天我在災害應變中心的時候我們甚至要拜託國軍弟兄國軍弟兄沒問題國軍常常不管是作戰救災都幫忙那地震這個民防隊也要出動是不是我知道一下你們怎麼做了"},{"start":6204.339,"end":6230.501,"text":"我的意思是說我現在需要必須儲備相關的人力啊這養兵就在千日啊也許永遠用不到你現在都又在說兵嘛我說的就是說如果按照你剛剛的前提錄這個影片就是只是擔心這種災害的時候颱風啊地震的時候那當然當然我是也很願意接受這個說法可是如果不是的話如果可能是因應可能的戰爭的話這是很多人看到的"},{"start":6230.981,"end":6231.101,"text":"雖然現在"},{"start":6250.458,"end":6256.263,"text":"有信心是好事 但是備戰也是要做吧 總統也是要說要備戰嘛 所以你們也發布這個全民國防手冊啦 你有看過全民國防手冊嗎"},{"start":6273.223,"end":6277.806,"text":"行政院長如果現在我們在質詢的過程當中突然中共就打過來一個砲彈就掉下來我們現在在立法院我們要躲在哪裡"},{"start":6290.964,"end":6316.621,"text":"我們可能就必須要國家﹖我們最近的這個﹖掩體在哪裡在哪裡委員就指出一個非常重要﹖我們最近的討論的事情比如說現場的人到底要走在哪個地方有一項﹖我們除了說地震要他趴下之外﹖如果更大的災難發生的時候﹖到底每一個人﹖在當下要知道我要去哪裡是是是要建立這樣的防衛的心情這個全民國家手冊﹖各個縣市都有嗎"},{"start":6318.467,"end":6344.215,"text":"有那個空間 有沒有各個縣市有沒有都有你既然要做嘛 要教育民眾嘛 全民國防手冊 各個縣市都有嗎 院長 部長跟委員報告 全民國防手冊裡面呢 它就有那個你可以點進去消防一點通裡面不是 地方都要有 各個縣市的地方都要有應變手冊 比如說我在台北 我在金門站你知道有各個縣市都有 沒有嘛 您知道有多少個縣市有嗎"},{"start":6346.073,"end":6353.516,"text":"國防部頒布一個全民國防手冊之後各縣市政府會依照他轄區的特性會來調修那個手冊有多少縣市調修出來了據我的瞭解應該各縣市都有調整只有17個縣市有"},{"start":6373.527,"end":6387.943,"text":"你可能應該要再去追蹤了解一下我不會針對您啦因為謝謝國防部我跟你講國防部也是幫金門很多忙啦在飛機沒有飛的時候軍機也幫忙飛很多我們需要後送的時候都是國防部在幫我們我們平時就好像暫時的"},{"start":6391.607,"end":6410.1,"text":"所以如果總統有這樣的決心有這樣的打算第一個要讓全民知道不要讓民心惶惶第二個我覺得40萬這個民力這樣夠嗎應該也是不夠吧跟委員報告這個是根據民防法它相關的規定來做這個民力的這個建築訓練"},{"start":6414.649,"end":6428.076,"text":"這個他範圍是很大包括要協助也搶救重大的災難協助地方治安等等事情很多遇到什麼事情40萬夠嗎?"},{"start":6430.886,"end":6450.439,"text":"我想這個 夠嗎 院長夠不夠 連最高行政所長 40萬夠嗎如果真的遇到這樣子大的事情的話 40萬夠嗎我們認為討論出來的這個數字就是基本的需求啦基本的需求 所以是不夠的嘛基本的需求我們希望他是備而為難所以如果總統要真的要全面備戰喔 就不尋求"},{"start":6451.46,"end":6452.682,"text":"主要是強化韌性其實40萬也是不夠的"},{"start":6470.782,"end":6495.667,"text":"我建議是不是就是開始討論阿實實像以前金門做的這樣子阿全民皆兵每個人都參加組成自衛隊民防自衛隊不分男女16歲到這個50歲沒有這樣的環境喔那你就是沒有打仗的環境阿所以你沒有打仗的環境嘛因為你們沒有這樣的決心嘛如果要打仗就不會分男或是女"},{"start":6496.227,"end":6510.862,"text":"跟委員報告民兵跟民力是不一樣的不一樣你覺得現在戰爭不會打到你家門口就對了跟委員報告我們這個民力最主要是面對像今天颱風或者是所以不是面對不是面對戰爭我只要這句話不是面對戰爭我們的民防法有規定"},{"start":6519.711,"end":6526.896,"text":"那這個民防法的規定裡面要包括民間的自救能力 共同防衛人民的生命財產這個我會再繼續跟你們討論 因為我只剩下30秒 我要問一個問題 院長你站到了嗎你站到了嗎你站不到了嗎你聽不懂金門話喔"},{"start":6541.618,"end":6559.214,"text":"我講的是照文化報告說我這個金門話是台灣台語耶金門腔耶那我還要學習還要學習所以我這個就不是台語嘛你聽不懂台語喔我這個是金門話所以你聽不懂嘛對不對聽不懂你聽不懂嘛那為什麼金文化被文化部列為是什麼台灣台語這個就不是"},{"start":6573.451,"end":6579.756,"text":"好,謝謝陳委員謝謝卓院長下一位請王帝女委員質詢"},{"start":6605.093,"end":6606.782,"text":"謝謝副院長麻煩卓院長卓院長請備舉"},{"start":6619.906,"end":6639.112,"text":"黃國雲好我們現在在這邊進行質詢其實我剛才一直在聯絡看臺南的情況因為這次這個颱風這個路徑大概是近10年來比較少見的路徑那現在停在那裡風雨前的寧靜其實我們大家要戰戰兢兢人因為沒辦法聽話"},{"start":6642.657,"end":6668.3,"text":"那我第一個先請教治水預算在從莫拉克到凱米事實上莫拉克跟凱米都是在南台灣降下非常大的雨在部分的食雨量呢它的累積雨量凱米甚至於超越莫拉克可莫拉克颱風當時造成的損失人命的損失是非常嚴重那以我比較熟悉的台南為例"},{"start":6669.346,"end":6687.951,"text":"海米跟莫拉克我們在莫拉克的時候臺南淹水區域根據水利署的資料是53000到56000公頃到了海米颱風的時候還是有淹水但是淹水區域在相同的雨量變700公頃53000到700其中包含我的選區從南關縣到東區三爺宮西二仁溪"},{"start":6696.154,"end":6711.381,"text":"這都是以前明星的淹水災區域說感謝水利相關的治水人員從中央到地方在凱米的時候還好我們渡過了但治水永遠不能自滿我們也不敢說不會淹水這個事情"},{"start":6712.181,"end":6739.191,"text":"現在面對這麼強大的這個颱風要過來我看了一下預算在行政院明年的治水預算蓋估起來有551億從郭智輝部長的經濟部到相關的部會加總起來551億那在我選區的鹽水溪八甲溪這邊有17.5億這個是做提案的那另外在其他一些橋樑要提高"},{"start":6740.331,"end":6757.245,"text":"復合治水治理線的高度等等等等這551億多重要呢賴清德總統到台南的時候宣布我們用一個基準線來對照每一任總統我相信都很重視治水馬英九總統的時候喊出6年600億所以平均一年100億"},{"start":6759.338,"end":6787.816,"text":"馬英九總統銜接到蔡英文總統在相關的治水預算加起來大概10年2014年到2024年是1873億大概平均每一年有180億上下而我們明年度的治水預算就達到551億坦白講這一個投資的規模大概是創歷史的我第一個要請教卓院長或其他部會可以協助回答"},{"start":6789.38,"end":6806.554,"text":"提高這樣的額度你希望達成的目標是什麼報告委員這個額度的提高是因為在凱米颱風之後我們到各地走了一趟我們不能否認過去的治水是有它的績效的但是還有一些部分可能在最後還必須加強的某一些"},{"start":6807.671,"end":6807.691,"text":"委員長"},{"start":6824.464,"end":6825.345,"text":"臺北市以外的區域共用100億"},{"start":6847.318,"end":6847.458,"text":"主席"},{"start":6869.858,"end":6872.32,"text":"我們持續在努力我們希望能夠透過這樣的說明讓朝野各黨團的委員先進能夠了解"},{"start":6894.105,"end":6911.861,"text":"所謂的預算整體性它必須一定是有它的相關關聯性的這個預算的完整性我們要維持預算可以三檢動到委員會大家提案三檢動黨團協商三檢動大會還可以再三檢動但現在卡在程序委員會是最差的狀態就不能討論"},{"start":6912.782,"end":6930.121,"text":"所以只有延續性的人事費用 延續性的才能支用 新增的都不行而這些新增項目 有一些可能 現在看我們總諮詢的人 不曉得在哪裡啊 古中溪在哪裡古中溪 那個台北橋 它要架高起來啊譬如說八甲"},{"start":6933.53,"end":6950.364,"text":"對這個南方兩花 要做到86個當事鄉現在那邊沒有提案啊 就要靠這個新政運算去處理所以 這個部分555億齁我希望 統一是跨部會的 從經濟部啦 到內政部 國土管理署等等可能大家要去思考說"},{"start":6951.605,"end":6952.786,"text":"接下來請教有關AI的部分"},{"start":6968.652,"end":6991.728,"text":"我一直追蹤因為謝謝卓中泰院長你上任應該還沒有滿月你就到我們沙崙宣布那邊要設AI園區我們充滿期待那有關AI它其實不只是硬體的生產還有軟體的應用甚至它是一種態度我印象我聽過郭部長還是哪一位部長提過現在我們面臨的狀態有點像30年前電腦剛在用的時候"},{"start":6995.031,"end":7015.545,"text":"後來我們才發現會電腦跟不會電腦根本就是一個0跟1的差別而不是有多少的問題所以我們AI要發展它可能是國發會它可能是國科會它可能是經濟部它可能是院要統籌的我目前看一下我們年度的預算明年度的預算你們計劃在沙崙西區投入1.8億在沙崙西區要投入1.33億"},{"start":7022.21,"end":7046.574,"text":"另外根據我發文給國科會的回文 國科會回答說你們現在整個經費期程上在研議當中需要試計劃審議 核定後確定所以我第一個先請教院長你在台灣現在發展AI 除了我們常常知道我們可能是製造上的大國 NVIDIA 夏丹 先進晶片"},{"start":7047.335,"end":7051.128,"text":"到底願景是什麼﹖你對台灣在你行政院﹖或者我們國發會﹖國科會相關的部會"},{"start":7054.025,"end":7077.414,"text":"AI的願景你發展的願景是什麼我們除了繼續維持我們製造大國之外我們要進入軟體設計的時代甚至我們建立自己的大型語言模型所以我就說主權AI應用時代這是我們下一個階段開始要進行去追求的一個目標這些願景他要轉換成政策跟預算行政院目前有沒有計劃"},{"start":7080.014,"end":7101.948,"text":"也許是跨部會編列的我們每一年投資在AI上面的預算準備編列多少包括我們的剛剛談到這個大型語言模型泰德的預算以及國科會在吳主委的安排之下我去到沙崙我們在114到118就會投資在沙崙超過360億的預算那整個科技預算114年到118年這個算是四年期的計畫要投資多少360億360億"},{"start":7109.253,"end":7134.12,"text":"這個跟原來的那個沙倫的醫療園區那個無關嗎獨立出來另外一個獨立的獨立的一個好那院長繼續那這個整個科技預算那更是超過1000億以上的科技預算在明年度要執行這個委員所說的不管是治水跟科技明年都有很多的新增的部分新增的項目這個跟治水有點像他其實是跨部會統合的AI有產業嘛"},{"start":7135.08,"end":7163.697,"text":"那產業要進來像AMD、NVIDIA要投資臺南跟高雄這個就經濟部可能比較主俠簽造工業區的infrastructure基礎建設那產業的導向規劃可能國科會要做一個導引的方式裡面還要結合量子所以我剛才要確認一下就是說在未來4年期我們會投資將近400億就是360多億在AI的發展另外科技預算會投資1000億那這樣子投入了量能下"},{"start":7164.926,"end":7173.342,"text":"人才 能源供應 電力供應 土地 這三件事情有沒有盤點過能源照"},{"start":7174.424,"end":7202.225,"text":"經濟部台電的盤點我們現在到2030年之前加進所有AI高科技的快速的發展我們還是有餘裕能夠來供應這個電力的郭部長我們該院長講的一個願景願景變成實質的政策跟投資預算人才庫土地基礎建設跟能源供應能源這一塊你怎麼看報告委員我們在這個4年內準備培育AI的人員"},{"start":7203.306,"end":7203.426,"text":"電力供應"},{"start":7231.223,"end":7234.405,"text":"以現有的盤點我們新開發的還不曉得以現有的我們擁有的電力規劃跟我們擁有的電力"},{"start":7249.155,"end":7249.855,"text":"綠電的部分我們現在正在加緊我們雖然現在這個"},{"start":7272.202,"end":7301.123,"text":"有一點落後這個進度不過我們現在全力的在這個院的指導之下我們全力的發展時間的關係我移回來卓院長對於你心中的願景未來AI發展的重鎮在哪裡當然全台灣都要但重點在哪裡委員一定是關心台南沙崙我們也一樣非常關心沙崙它會起一個帶頭起頭的大的作用你剛剛提到土地現在沙崙還有很多可以興建開發起來"},{"start":7302.11,"end":7324.235,"text":"他已經新建的建築物已經相當大相當多那還有你都可以開發我最後提醒你那我待會請顧立雄部長我三分鐘有問題要問他就是說在沙崙這一邊請注意一下我們的國土計畫法他有一些畫的那個區塊不符合我們的需求"},{"start":7325.168,"end":7345.349,"text":"所以本來5年檢討期明年就要進行檢討那現在大家主張把國土計劃法先拉下來重新盤點沙崙這一塊跟周邊不管是中秋啦武當大潭沙崙五甲貴南這周邊的發展在國土計劃法裡面很多是化成農業發展區"},{"start":7347.625,"end":7364.796,"text":"所以這個部分可能要去注意一下我會提醒主委這邊我們也協調請市政府農業部跟國科會再來協調期待院長有空再來沙崙走一走你大概來都會有好消息那你先請回我請顧立雄部長我最後兩分鐘多請教顧部長你邊走邊聽我提問"},{"start":7368.331,"end":7393.07,"text":"這兩天有一個蠻奇怪的消息就是有關賴清德總統三軍統賴清德總統三軍統在將領晉升的時候怎麼傳出一個消息說他坦白講我大概20幾歲認識賴清德國大代表到現在我沒有看過他摔東西甚至我坦白講他就是他要罵人也罵得蠻文雅的"},{"start":7393.883,"end":7395.304,"text":"因為這個總統是就這個在我們8月的這個將官訓免典禮之後他為了"},{"start":7422.398,"end":7429.663,"text":"以往晉升就結束了,這一次是晉升掛接之後,總統安排到官邸是不是?總統府裡面安排查序"},{"start":7442.423,"end":7458.638,"text":"因為這個流程會前確實我們這邊沒有一個溝通的清楚那我那個時候安排當然是一個圓桌的一個平台他並不是總統還要先上台有一個致詞他就是一個圓桌子"},{"start":7460.579,"end":7471.367,"text":"總統進來的時候應該沒有喊總統進來請起立的動作所以總統進來之後確實有提醒一下說按照軍人禮節應該要注意一下就輕輕提醒這一句他一向講話態度蠻嚴正的但是沒有任何"},{"start":7487.236,"end":7489.197,"text":"你認為這些有些片段扭曲式的說法會有什麼影響?"},{"start":7513.271,"end":7513.291,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7543.723,"end":7560.669,"text":"謝謝王委員謝謝卓院長發言會現在在議場二樓旁聽起的是東吳大學政治系的同學我們在此表達歡迎發言會現在休息10分鐘休息之後我們繼續進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":8237.02,"end":8241.642,"text":"發言會現在繼續開會請邱政經委員質詢還有我們請我們的院長請左院長"},{"start":8272.345,"end":8300.407,"text":"邱委員好院長好我想問一下就是說您在宣布內閣人事的時候說過支持客家朋友的權益及客家文化的保存是我們執政黨長期來的一個目標嘛那我身為客家人聽到是非常的高興也蠻感動的但是呢最近因為教育部說行政院要把閩南語改成台語我就覺得很奇怪我請教一下院長客語是台灣的語言嗎"},{"start":8302.097,"end":8331.256,"text":"我曾經說過幾次這個都是國家語言我們就用這樣國家語言來認定所有在這裡通用的語言原住民語言也是包括手語都是剛剛我看到陳玉珍委員他也提到他的金門話金門語言也算是我們台灣的語言嘛那既然通通都是那為什麼我們行政院這一次要把這個閩南語改成特別改成台語呢我可以回答嗎"},{"start":8332.32,"end":8360.6,"text":"我覺得今天會有那個規定是因為早期大家獨尊華語把所有其他語言都消滅所以這個語言法是因為要把一些要被消滅的語言重新恢復才會有這個法那麼全部加一個臺語臺灣是因為你說閩南語會被消滅啊差不多啊其實會講閩南語的人不多捏今天我們講閩南語也好臺語也好他的確是跟過去比起來差不多40幾歲以下不會講了捏"},{"start":8362.394,"end":8384.293,"text":"這個閩南語或台語的確一直在消滅中所以其實我們會有定這個法制想把所有在台灣的語言都變成國家語言以前我們的國家語言是華語嘛所以您是覺得客家話客語跟原住民語都不重要嗎同時在消失為什麼這些沒有編列一起在編其實對於客家或原住民語"},{"start":8385.083,"end":8385.783,"text":"我們國家語言發展報告的網站"},{"start":8408.314,"end":8437.595,"text":"他們特別標註我們行政院請客機關優先使用臺灣原住民語言那臺灣客語還有臺灣台語還有馬祖語臺灣手語等等都算是那當然我也認同我們生長在中華民國這塊土地上所有的族群都是臺灣人所以每個族群用的語言都是我們臺灣話也是臺語尤其在教育上文化藝術不應該有政治力的那個政治的考量"},{"start":8438.564,"end":8439.865,"text":"民演號民演號民演號民演號"},{"start":8457.345,"end":8470.825,"text":"當時你有沒有出來廣發呢?對,我們有出來表達,我們在媒體上也有說過,基於民從主人﹖可以做到廣告嗎?做到"},{"start":8472.748,"end":8472.928,"text":"民從主人 臺語"},{"start":8490.245,"end":8512.781,"text":"我們也尊重尊崇我們的行人對好路人因為我們都說他的好路法不會說他退任所以他要自稱跟他稱我們都會尊崇其實就包含他所要的促求尊崇跟保養的提醒主委我相信這樣我希望其他人家學幹人的在床上你能學到鄉親學幹人都整齊我們不能說看不看不去因為這樣就緊要緊要死"},{"start":8519.295,"end":8524.897,"text":"我只要做訪談,我一定講下我一定講下,因為那些母語,我做不講,不記得,一定要帶頭我再問一件事情,朱茉莉在哪裏輔助武漢東人"},{"start":8548.718,"end":8562.225,"text":"我記得以前是這樣,主委是南科,副主委是北科,北科是周主委,南科是南編上,我認同這樣,現在都在那裡,北科沒有人在那裡?"},{"start":8568.547,"end":8572.792,"text":"還是要院長決定?副主委是要院長決定嗎?這個我覺得我還有很大的遺憾就是這個副主委來之後我們一直想"},{"start":8591.769,"end":8617.828,"text":"看他自己的狀況來填補一位副主委來協助他那目前還沒有適當的人員外界一直在猜測啦是不是北克沒有我們賴清德總統的人沒有沒有沒有剛剛我聽出來了這個委員有說到南克北克那因為副主委來自南部嘛我們一直希望在北部找一位熟悉地方熟悉文化那個也熟悉公共這個體系我們是這樣講啦我現在是希望說我們客家客委會也好就是客委會"},{"start":8618.348,"end":8619.229,"text":"我們請兩位部長"},{"start":8648.203,"end":8676.269,"text":"院長我聽說本週五要喝一個溫暖的咖啡當然我希望這杯咖啡能夠融化你的心能夠把我們這個立法院的這個立場你要了解那我可以希望你不要喝到不要點到冰的啦你要心裡還喝熱一點好不好上週五咖啡很溫暖已經喝過了本週五希望有更熱鬧的大火鍋那事實上我們這個"},{"start":8677.694,"end":8683.756,"text":"第一個網路上的訊息指責說是哪一方面的假消息所以福利會沒有津貼會領不到這個部分啊院長你認為勒"},{"start":8704.209,"end":8723.121,"text":"因為預算整體 到目前對我來講明年的預算到現在為止就是空的因為還沒有付尾 付尾之後實施審查就會產生任何的一般性的支出是不會影響的但新增的事項新增的計畫就完全停擺跟原來的福利原來的津貼有什麼差別 有什麼不一樣"},{"start":8724.662,"end":8749.342,"text":"重點在於新政的今天明年有很多不要把這些事情就是用混淆的方式模糊焦點整個這樣打帶動這個風向我們從來沒有這樣的表達過我們說預算是整體的需要能夠實質審查那當然為什麼我這樣講就是說我們也退一回我舉個例子就像我們小學的時候我們寫作業寫給了"},{"start":8751.38,"end":8769.631,"text":"教的作業我們寫錯了老師叫我回去改當然也是應該很正常的嘛對不對不能說寫錯了你沒有依法編列預算你沒有照著這個法規來編列預算的時候我們跟你講然後你跟我說是老師不對"},{"start":8771.513,"end":8790.62,"text":"不過我們預算編列制定的過程程序是有它一定的行政院負責制定跟編列立法院負責審議在制定跟過程當中行政院有整個整體的考量那如果說一個提案或一個法律就能夠增加一些這個預算的話那以後沒有辦法編預算以後預算會膨脹到"},{"start":8795.882,"end":8824.533,"text":"無法控制因為今天這個委員會來一個今天這個委員來一個院長你講的都沒有錯但是我認同我認同你的論點但是立法院也不會無限上綱的去隨便去編列預算當然你們是編列預算的單位那我們是審預算的單位那當然如果我們立了法如果造成國家的這個財政的這個預算沒有辦法編列的時候你是不是就要主動出來溝通"},{"start":8825.967,"end":8827.268,"text":"原住民的預算才20幾億這會影響嗎"},{"start":8843.36,"end":8871.56,"text":"這不是錢多錢少的問題而且你要想想看從3萬塊的補償一下子增加為6萬比例上是百分之百的增加他已經十幾年沒有編列了沒有做但是也未曾有一項是這樣子況且這應該是由行政機關當時的這個我們的通膨也好就是當時的匯率來講當時也沒有那麼高所以現在錢越來越小我們只是把它提高對不對"},{"start":8872.571,"end":8889.263,"text":"提高我請問一下我們園民會是我也好你主委還在帛琉玩是擔任總統特使參加帛琉建國三十年我想請問你那你們講到你的意思是說不足的錢要用原住民綜合發展基金來補是嗎"},{"start":8890.941,"end":8915.453,"text":"這個在主計總署有做含釋在105年的時候就是說有關於進法補償的工作就是由公務預算跟原住民中央發展基金來對半來負擔那不足的部分未來基金有不服使用的部分現在基金基金有多少我們基金抱歉委員我沒提你基金就是原住民的那個那個那個發展基金"},{"start":8916.155,"end":8943.497,"text":"我們現在還有20幾億的28億是嗎我們公務預算編列28億那你進發補償條例就要42億嘛那你們說會慢慢的說會如期來如何來發放這是你講過的嗎這個部分就是我們會合法那合理的來做什麼叫做合法合理合理法院的法還是合理我想行政機關就是依法來處理我們的政務那你有編預算嗎"},{"start":8944.545,"end":8970.852,"text":"有 公務預算 便利28億嘛 對不對 不過啊那你剩下怎麼辦我們基金有相關的預算 是你是挪用還是便利不是挪用 他是在基金基金只有28億不是嗎我們的基金管理辦法裡面的支出的工作項目就包含金髮補償的這個項目但是你只有28億不是嗎公務預算28億 那我們基金可以20億來去支應所以你可以發放就對了"},{"start":8971.175,"end":8996.536,"text":"我們會合法合理來做這個工作我不希望這變成一個詐騙案好不好我希望說這個事情趕快政府不會詐騙部長請回部主委請回那我再 院長我再請教就上個會期我們在6月的時候有質詢過那本席向院長請教過我們淘竹苗大細股的這個計畫那"},{"start":8998.82,"end":9019.608,"text":"當然我們地方上是非常重視這個案子我想請教目前的進度在哪裡報告委員 這個進度是昨天院已經核下來了所以本會議就會準備行文到各部會開始進入規劃跟可言等進度"},{"start":9020.754,"end":9035.713,"text":"所以他現在已經剛通過就對了對那苗栗的部分我們現在怎麼規劃您這邊有苗栗像頭份、竹南、厚隆都有在匡列在裡面這三塊地都有匡列在裡面是的那我想說因為這個對地方來講"},{"start":9037.876,"end":9039.037,"text":"主要細部還是要看各部會的規劃"},{"start":9058.493,"end":9071.89,"text":"各部會是對我們這邊是上位政策做整體桃竹苗的規劃以後進入細微規劃譬如說經濟部他們會規劃產業園區然後各單位都會有交通部等等都會有各項的建設部長講一下"},{"start":9073.519,"end":9094.06,"text":"報告這個委員在這個厚農產業的這個籌備用地的部分那麼苗栗縣政府已經完成設置可行性的評估報告書之後那麼將依產創條例競速審查並寒轉行政院審議核定為重大的建設所以這個案子在進行中"},{"start":9094.537,"end":9111.845,"text":"已經進行了,那我希望就盡快啦好不好,讓地方上能夠有一個依據,我們其實地方上是非常期待那也希望這個案子趕快確定,我們可以先做其他的事情,讓我們地方知道在地方來配合好不好那我們兩位部長請回去"},{"start":9118.809,"end":9125.151,"text":"這就是新增計畫這也是賴總統選前的一個政見我們一定是全力支持拜託委員支持這個新增計畫才能如期推動謝謝院長我再請教一下你有沒有覺得我們潘孟安秘書長是一個優秀的屏東縣長"},{"start":9148.238,"end":9176.71,"text":"他在現場任期內評比很高地方民眾對他的支持度也很高我也很佩服他啦就是他把這個限制嚴格的農一劃在公有地4萬公頃的優良私有農地劃在農二還把應該劃農五的都計內的農地全部改劃到城鄉發展區那在我看來他非常勇於挑戰中央而且最後還讓中央妥協"},{"start":9177.52,"end":9204.384,"text":"你們說 地方政府作為規劃主體 屏東農地設置的爭議中 中央向地方妥協是符合國土規劃的原則 這句話沒有錯吧國土規劃是整體國家土地充分利用 資源利用那既然這樣子 既然全現在地方 還有縣市也還沒交 有的還沒審過 那麼其他的縣市如果比照我們屏東這樣的話 您會支持嗎"},{"start":9205.71,"end":9209.083,"text":"這要地方政府跟我們農業單位跟內政部都來充分的"},{"start":9210.748,"end":9235.465,"text":"協調出一個合理的狀況來我跟委員說明就是現在地方政府在畫的農業發展區不只是農一農二農一到農五的發生的區域那他是有他相關的一個規範跟指引那最主要是由原來的特農或一般農為基底去做轉成的那至於說地方政府畫出來了以後那有很多東西是可以有"},{"start":9235.945,"end":9265.169,"text":"有做調整的一個空間我們會依據實際的狀況跟縣政府當地的一個產業發展的需求而做一個溝通你是講的意思是說每個縣市不同嗎一定是每因為到現在目前為止就是整個的土地的農地的一個適用總量管制的概念但是並沒有規定說地方政府一定要劃多少那我們有一個劃設指引那劃設指引如果說有一些"},{"start":9265.989,"end":9289.769,"text":"調整的時候我們可以跟地方政府一起努力來做一個最有效的調整所以我們地方政府我們苗縣政府如果發現有問題有爭議的時候是不是可以來做一個調整對 是可以經過溝通以後去做一個調整我憑良心講苗栗縣五個水庫那影響了非常多的農民的一個權益已經影響得非常大"},{"start":9290.444,"end":9318.455,"text":"那再加上師傅保育又荒慮了很多的土地不能夠不好動因為管制又更嚴了那現在再加上國土計畫法我希望我們中央一定要多為我們苗栗鄉親來考量因為說真的做牧農的人他們日子過得真的不是很好當土地越來越沒有價值的時候你要教他們怎麼活下去我希望"},{"start":9319.045,"end":9345.06,"text":"我們中央能夠考量到這一點因為苗栗比較特殊我更希望苗栗有更有一種特別的一種規劃方式這樣可以嗎這個跟委員報告那個只要苗栗縣政府把那個相關的國土計畫送上來那麼我們內政部會秉持相關的原則然後來跟相關的跟苗栗縣做討論那所有的各縣市基本上也都是這樣子你們現在急著明年要實施嗎"},{"start":9346.007,"end":9360.144,"text":"我們現在奉行政院的指示我們會積極跟各縣市政府溝通藍綠的委員大家都非常重視這個問題因為地方上確實聽到非常多的聲音我希望我們行政院這邊能夠"},{"start":9362.533,"end":9381.233,"text":"聽取民意能夠把這個事情如果暫緩兩年不是不執行我們不是不執行只是說暫緩兩年讓大家有更多一點的時間來溝通我覺得這才是好的不要一個這樣這麼重要的一個法案如果直接推動的時候如果沒有配套沒有做好真的會引起民憂"},{"start":9382.374,"end":9401.185,"text":"跟委員報告我們第一個站在內政部的立場我們當然要依法執行那第二個就是說行政院已經有指示我們會進行跟全面的地方的溝通這個相關的溝通也包括說跟大院這邊的溝通那大院這邊有什麼決定我們會遵從我相信這個案子一定會過啦就是說延緩兩年這個部分"},{"start":9407.406,"end":9425.056,"text":"那我們已經給你台階下了那你們趕快趁這兩年時間趕快去處理好不好我們會積極努力去處理相關的法律的修訂那包括執法那也跟委員報告其實苗栗縣跟那個嘉義市也已經跟在媒體上告訴大家說他們會送國土計畫法"},{"start":9426.57,"end":9427.551,"text":"我覺得政策推動現在一定要因地制宜好不好"},{"start":9456.449,"end":9483.931,"text":"讓我們地方上能夠更加的和諧這才是我們要的案因為老百姓真的是很可憐你如果一個法令定下去之後搞不好他就因為這樣子整個生計就受到影響所以我們應該要從長計議好不好我們請回院長不好意思我再問我們之前有再問到我們才化法的部分我們尊重行政院"},{"start":9484.895,"end":9511.804,"text":"那展現了很大的善意嘛那在上個會期我們也有先暫緩一下也希望我們行政院能夠提出政院版的財化法的修正案那目前您行政院這邊有沒有什麼新的做法嗎 有沒有新的計畫我應該了解財化法它本身是一個非常龐大的計算工程那財政部在8月份跟9月份分別跟地方政府"},{"start":9513.356,"end":9526.045,"text":"是繼續做很多次的溝通那我想像現在他即使到目前為止也沒有辦法得出一個大家都能夠接受的方式出來那我會請財政部繼續來談這個事情是請財政部來說明一下嗎那是水平分配的問題"},{"start":9532.509,"end":9535.411,"text":"財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財政財"},{"start":9554.421,"end":9574.429,"text":"那過往有5次 從88年到現在有5次送立法院審議都沒有能夠修正通過就是因為沒有共識沒有共識主要是因為分配的機制大家都還有爭議那所以這一次我們會在分配機制上我們認為要充分的討論你那時候是送立法院對不對那這一期立法院如果通過了你們遵不遵守"},{"start":9575.791,"end":9579.315,"text":"這部分我們認為應該要審慎的規劃來改動如果是很貿然而是為了要求快通過的話那事實上會造成更大的爭議那未來在公平分配上其實會影響更大"},{"start":9593.21,"end":9610.767,"text":"也跟委員報告才化碼雖然沒有能夠修正但是我們在對地方政府的財政挹注其實是成長很多尤其在114年比113年加上統籌加上一般補助款會增加到900億是歷年來最高已經達到7000多億你不要講那個啦但是我就覺得我們要立民又補到錢啊"},{"start":9612.687,"end":9636.752,"text":"我苗栗就是沒有補到啦有啊苗栗也是有分啦你那是一般建設有些東西我們講難聽一點啦如果錢給我們自己我們來規劃那我們當然苗栗現在還因為負債嘛對不對我們可以更好的規劃我們的財政預算那現在完全靠中央給我們要還到什麼時候你們的錢只是建設啊那我們永遠苗栗在負債"},{"start":9638.822,"end":9649.63,"text":"財務的部分因為苗栗過往財務事實上是有超限目前還說在地方政府努力他已經有一樣的很多了那整個財政紀律沒有維持已經不符合現在的我們的需求了嗎不會我覺得這個部分在一般性的補助款主席總署也給予支持那我再問那就是現在假如立法院通過之後你們怎麼辦"},{"start":9669.093,"end":9696.991,"text":"我覺得這個是一個高度共識的一個法案才可以那雖然說過去幾年財法法沒有做過任何的修訂但是逐年中央對地方的補助是一再的增加剛剛部長也講到了明年度我們高達增加了900億我們中央的稅 國稅的部分那一般的補助 成長超過一倍中央總預算已經突破三兆了可是地方稅收的成長率卻只有13%"},{"start":9698.632,"end":9724.375,"text":"而且法定支出越來越多你懂我意思嗎你這造成地方上的真的是非常的辛苦你錢通通抓在中央沒有沒有沒有我們對一般補助統籌分配款都有相當的挹注給地方而且因為逐年的增加那過去的數字部長再說明一下像今年跟明年我們就明年又增加了相當大那今年實際上也增加了對地方所以院長您的意思"},{"start":9725.017,"end":9735.906,"text":"您的意思是財化法這一次你還是不準備動啊?你準備不調了?我覺得要有充分的討論而且要有共識 這樣子通過才有意義你說這些縣市 你們找來溝通你找誰來溝通?"},{"start":9740.356,"end":9767.643,"text":"各地方政府以及部會都有來我們在這個分配的指標上在財政努力還有基本建設需求這部分都已經中國討論而且有初步的成果後續必須對於權重還有調整係數的部分都還要做精緻的一個規劃我這樣講當然我們現在立法院的那個版本到底適不適用這個我不多講但是我認為大家要出來談你來談我們大家才會有空間"},{"start":9768.578,"end":9777.517,"text":"不是說一定要照我們立法院的版本你把你們的立場講出來但是你一定要願意退阿你懂我意思嗎你不能說我就是這樣子我就不跟你談"},{"start":9778.906,"end":9799.91,"text":"這不是中央退的問題是中央地方一起進步的問題我們一起進步就是中央會用更多的資源役注在地方需要的縣市我們絕對不是用人口來做唯一的標準比例剛剛部長講了很多有他各種的條件算出來這是一個複雜的財政資源分配的一個計算工程"},{"start":9800.626,"end":9821.052,"text":"我認為啦就是說現在我們台灣的政治氛圍我希望大家能夠坐下來好好談你們如果不談這個案子還是會通過那通過的時候我們要請我們的大法官保姆來保護你們嗎所以立法院通過的東西你們都不承認是不是你乾脆請大法官出來把我們立法院講的都不算就好了"},{"start":9821.77,"end":9848.731,"text":"我當然希望立法行政兩院的互動能夠非常的平實而且非常能夠依照各種法律來進行我真的是希望我真的是希望台灣更好地方更好那我也不希望看到藍綠的惡鬥那我們希望我們大家一起努力往前走好不好是我們當然希望中央跟地方大家都一起好所以在整個分配的機制上我們必須要做更詳細更細緻的一個規劃好"},{"start":9856.066,"end":9879.945,"text":"我再請問一下我們全面開放輔導五縣市的食品你們的理由是回歸科學從2011年到現在邊境檢驗輻射23.5萬多批檢測結果均符合我國標準及日本標準不合格為0那你有沒有告訴大家日本的檢驗批數是多少"},{"start":9882.122,"end":9885.972,"text":"現在的狀況是日本禁止的我國就禁止"},{"start":9888.073,"end":9903.941,"text":"在周遭五線原來有一些禁止的所以我們是聽日本的跟著日本的腳步走日本說吃就是可以吃日本說不能吃我們就不能吃是這樣嗎這還是符合國際的標準國際的檢驗標準我看了一下報告從110年到112年6月日本總檢驗的P數總共183萬4681P這期間驗了21萬"},{"start":9916.458,"end":9944.266,"text":"一千三百七十批也就是說我們的這個比例只有九分之一我們是在我們的邊境我們在我們的邊境檢驗啊十三年來我們在我們邊境檢驗的數量你有沒有檢驗到有沒有檢驗過到輻射嗎沒有十三年來檢驗邊境檢驗的二十三點五萬批次都符合我們現在的標準那這個也跟國際檢測那我再問一下靜岡縣的那個抹茶"},{"start":9946.274,"end":9949.736,"text":"這樣子我覺得是這樣人民的標準他只有0跟1沒有什麼我一點點你只能告訴他這個能不能吃"},{"start":9976.428,"end":9977.429,"text":"我們進口到他們的關稅是6%多其他國家是4%多"},{"start":10006.581,"end":10006.841,"text":"時間剩下40秒了"},{"start":10036.608,"end":10052.029,"text":"我希望最後來,我們碳費審議的作業現在大概決定是300塊開始還是我們還有自主減量,我們還有優惠措施,那明年會開始計算明年已經出來了嗎?"},{"start":10055.143,"end":10074.604,"text":"報告委員那個10月7號有最後一次的審議委員會預計優惠費率應該會出來那您預計是多少目前我看到委員的討論大概是100塊的上下應該會先這樣走對一個範圍你要循序漸進不要讓我們企業一下通通沒辦法大家都沒辦法接受大家都跑掉了"},{"start":10083.407,"end":10105.848,"text":"好,謝謝邱委員也謝謝卓院長報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是雲林縣斗六鎮里長聯誼會的朋友是不是鎮長也有來然後我們在此歡迎他們是斗南鎮的里長聯誼會還有鎮長"},{"start":10109.222,"end":10134.649,"text":"接下來我們繼續質詢請蘇巧惠委員質詢有沒有聲音好 謝謝副院長那我們請卓院長卓院長請備詢"},{"start":10145.798,"end":10168.425,"text":"蘇委員好院長好 院長辛苦了那我想這麼多的委員其實有很多都問到了一個相同的問題就是我們非常關心的國土計劃法所以我今天也想就這個問題來跟您請教我想國土計劃法的重要性是非常清楚的因為它就是讓全國的土地在規劃與利用有一致的標準"},{"start":10168.965,"end":10198.2,"text":"而且呢在進行詳細的調查之後就未來我們國土的功能分區的使用他是會有一定的總量管制這沒有問題嘛對不對好可是那請問院長為什麼現在感覺上國土計畫這麼好的一個法律要實施起來就困難重重呢委員應該清楚我們國土計畫法的實施已經延過一次了是啊那再回覆過來現在我們發現的問題有幾個縣市是沒有送來他的功能表的有九個縣市"},{"start":10200.011,"end":10216.867,"text":"但是在說明的過程當中我個人會覺得我們對國土計劃法的內容要說明清楚讓廣大的農民朋友知道那目前來看相當的困難原始的設計是不是現在沒有辦法對大家了解接受但是我們還請內政部跟農業部"},{"start":10220.17,"end":10234.461,"text":"委員長你又講到一個點就是我也非常同意其實我認為現在實施的困難真的是兩個面向第一個是民眾對於國土計劃法的規定其實不太了解所以很多的"},{"start":10235.242,"end":10258.273,"text":"反對其實是來自於誤解比如說第一個他們就不清楚國土計劃法的重要精神之一就是保障既有的合法權益只要你是既有的合法權益其實這是完全受保護的不管你是屬於哪一種未來被分在哪一種類別上面既有權益合法權益是完全被保障但這個資訊其實不夠清楚第二個是因為"},{"start":10259.213,"end":10285,"text":"主要的規劃權力就是在地方政府所以相同的地貌有可能會因為他在不同的縣市不同的主管單位畫出來的不太一樣的功能分區這當然民眾心中就有所不平啊那所以院長我今天就讓你實務看一下院長你有看過這一張表嗎這個俗稱圈差表院長有看過嗎圈差表"},{"start":10287.297,"end":10299.433,"text":"有看過 這就是我們國土功能的分區未來容許使用的情形所以它的不同類別將來圈圈叉叉就代表它可以或不可以好 那我就問你 你圈圈叉叉知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":10302.235,"end":10303.856,"text":"管制強度不同管制密度"},{"start":10318.402,"end":10344.956,"text":"每一種類別確實阿可以秀一下我的表單嗎就不同的類別讓院長看一下不同類別他真的後面的圈和差和他的時薪上面有數字等等真的不一樣可見得你被分在哪一類確實就會有不同的發展這院長同意吧沒問題好那院長你知道農事和乘二之一的差別嗎農事和乘二之一"},{"start":10348.756,"end":10361.4,"text":"我跟委員說明 農事的部分就是原來的鄉村區的一個聚落的部分跟原住民的聚落的部分規劃在那個農事如果你的周圍都是農地把你包圍著你就農事嘛對不對"},{"start":10366.482,"end":10366.882,"text":"那我現在來讓你看這張圖"},{"start":10393.863,"end":10402.247,"text":"委員長你看一下這張圖現在這個粉紅色有框起來的這個部分它的周圍都是農二那你覺得這粉紅色應該化為什麼農四吧農二就是優良的農地嘛對嘛那所以它整個這個粉紅色完全被農二包圍著所以這個農二這個粉紅色要化為什麼還是陳部長"},{"start":10416.713,"end":10440.441,"text":"我覺得這個要實際看它的一個面積跟它的一個區位農事啦我告訴你啦現在這個化為農事啦對那個是農事那個聚落是農事好啦這個粉紅色化為農事啦好來下一張圖下一張圖來這一個紅色我要問你的是紅色的你猜它被化為什麼它被農一農二包圍著啊它的周圍也都是農地啊那你猜它被化為什麼也不用猜啦這是實際上已經發生的對啊"},{"start":10445.469,"end":10465.857,"text":"他是乘二之一阿他是乘二之一那你剛剛說農事和乘二之一不一樣那我再把你這兩張圖合併在一起院長這裡是哪裡你知道嗎這裡這裡就是我新北英哥和隔壁桃園阿"},{"start":10467.385,"end":10494.3,"text":"這裡就是我們在人為的行政區上畫了一條線可是我眼睛看過去它是同樣的一片地呀我的農地不會說在這個空中給你設立一個高牆說新北在這裡桃園在這裡我就是一望而去相同的農地然後我有兩個聚落可是因為它分別在新北市和桃園市它被畫出來的不一樣"},{"start":10495.336,"end":10501.838,"text":"那所以我的英哥鄉親當然就問我啦就問我說 欸 委員啊 為什麼一樣的農地點館 啊我是農事 啊他是成二之一 啊這中來的發展會不一樣嗎"},{"start":10508.999,"end":10516.441,"text":"我可以很清楚的回答 但是第二到底為什麼他是農事 隔壁是乘二之一 這個我就不太清楚了 難怪他們的心中會有很大的問號"},{"start":10533.664,"end":10560.72,"text":"所以我覺得今天在這裡因為他有太多太多的例外條件比如說他有可能說我這個地方將來還有什麼城市興起的狀況城市發展不同條件這個不同縣市層級的地方政府他們有不同的藍圖想像那當然就有不同的狀況嘛所以我會認為的是當地方政府報上來之後其實中央"},{"start":10561.781,"end":10573.054,"text":"中央應該要有全國一致的審查標準我認為這才是國土計畫的精神展現之所在院長你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":10577.08,"end":10596.86,"text":"明年4月之前我們應該有充裕的時間是 所以我的進一步主張更甚至是 其實應該是我們要催促地方政府趕快上出來留給中央足夠完備的時間來審查 欸審查不可能是只有勾和插就把你退件 不可能 這一定是來來回回一個很長的過程"},{"start":10598.061,"end":10624.807,"text":"所以地方政府如果要真的保護大家的權益其實他也應該要趕快送出來來跟地方來跟中央做討論然後為什麼這個地方是這樣畫那樣畫有什麼樣的規矩阿全國其他的地方怎麼畫最後讓中央層級大家有一定的標準把它建制下來我認為這才是國土規劃的精神阿不是應該這樣嗎第一個我們希望他今年的6月30要送來"},{"start":10625.447,"end":10642.991,"text":"現在已經延誤了 明年的4月30 截止5月就開始實施 這第一個再來我們希望是 照國土計畫法的45條是一併公告才能保障該有多少土地做什麼樣的使用 全國一致的這個視野來看那這兩個目前來看都有相當的困難"},{"start":10643.809,"end":10661.512,"text":"是啊 所以我其實瞭解國土計畫的好處而且甚至我等一下還可以跟院長的兩位部長報告其實國土計畫上路更好的地方是它還可以解決很多長年多年沒有辦法解決的問題這真的是好事啊"},{"start":10661.912,"end":10682.457,"text":"可是第一資訊傳達的不夠清楚第二全國的標準是否一致讓人民的感受覺得公平我覺得這兩大問題其實是應該要被解決才有辦法如期上路這是我誠心的從地方反應過來的意見但解方是什麼解方是地方政府計畫要趕快送來啦"},{"start":10683.957,"end":10684.899,"text":"反而我認為中央應該要花力氣在怎麼要求鼓勵或者是"},{"start":10700.388,"end":10721.653,"text":"內政部 農業部都非常的繼續質詢 可以請內政部說明一下他的進度是 謝謝委員 我想委員剛所提到的非常的正確 其實國土計畫它有二級審議它在一級審議 在地方政府審議的時候有他們的功能 但是它也可以跟我們的中央來討論問題是現在不願意送上來他們講的理由 跟我們所知道的完全是背道而馳"},{"start":10722.253,"end":10722.273,"text":"對於臺灣"},{"start":10742.466,"end":10762.511,"text":"全體的國土的這個長久大計做比較長遠的影響所以我們還是希望能夠從善如流可以跟很多地方縣市政府來多溝通希望他們可以在一定時間內送上來譬如說新北市他們有曾經提到說他們有2000多件這樣的爭議可是他們慢慢已經在解決當中現在剩下大概只有800到1200左右"},{"start":10764.591,"end":10764.871,"text":"國土計畫未來的功能"},{"start":10780.546,"end":10799.584,"text":"而且部長我覺得你應該要讓民眾除了剛剛誤解的部分要能夠澄清之外要讓大家能夠理解真正能夠保障權益反而是好的國土計畫上路上路之後是真正保障權益這個部分要讓大家能夠理解不是不送反而是這樣的狀況對"},{"start":10801.927,"end":10824.864,"text":"計劃送了之後 中央要有足夠的時間審議才完整的上路這是我的主張 我也不是主張衝突的直接把國土計劃上路我認為這是不合理的為什麼 我再讓你看下一題你就會知道國土計劃把他上路之前要做的前置作業其實非常的多院長可能不是很清楚新北的部分因為畢竟我們在新北比較久"},{"start":10825.925,"end":10850.338,"text":"新北其實有13個地區我們新北29區竟然有13個區是含有礦區土地的喔礦區不是只在新北的少少地方是包括我土樹山陰啊甚至其他地方有13個地區都過去有採礦行為而因為採礦它就變成礦區土地結果現在不採了以後會變成什麼它就變成廢礦區土地部長"},{"start":10852.679,"end":10879.627,"text":"你可以解釋一下跟大家說明一下廢礦區土地現在可以怎麼利用嗎沒有辦法利用什麼都不能用嘛除非沒有公告是啊所以它一定成為廢礦區土地它除了既有的房舍你可以修繕之外房舍你要新增你要增建不行更不要說我如果在這個地方我將來想要做礦區的文物、歷史、觀光、興建什麼都不行什麼都不行結果它佔了清北這麼大的面積這個問題難道不解決嗎"},{"start":10882.108,"end":10902.691,"text":"所以我會認為其實國土計劃如果能夠上路的話我們的礦區問題其實才有解方啊而且而且在國但是不是應該而且啦應該是但是但是剛剛一再的說嘛開宗明義國土計劃只保障在國土計劃上路前合法的部分嘛"},{"start":10903.251,"end":10917.879,"text":"所以如果他現在還是不合法那將來國土計畫上路他也不合法啊他即便是地目被調整了但他的權益還是有問題所以在這個地方為什麼我要利用總質詢的部分跟院長請教就是"},{"start":10918.559,"end":10945.116,"text":"我發現我們新北的礦區土地甚至包含了特專區在瑞芳京九地區有當年的國營事業就是採金礦的台金公司所留下來的大範圍的特專區特定專用區這其實是需要經濟部也要下來能夠一起解決不然的話我們這個你知道嗎這個我們如果要變更的話其實是需要提出事業這個"},{"start":10946.517,"end":10965.444,"text":"事業目的使用計畫結果這個事業目的使用計畫經過35年現在在哪裡沒有人知道中央也沒有人知道地方也沒有人知道沒有任何人知道的狀況下那這個地方要怎麼變更申請根本無解啊所以在國土計畫上路之前有相當多的配套措施也就是要讓我們"},{"start":10966.684,"end":10982.714,"text":"可以成為合法的身份以配合國土系化去調整他的地木的狀況我認為這種前置作業也是必須由中央督促地方政府趕快來實施不曉得部長今天在這裡聽到我們的呼籲是不是可以"},{"start":10983.254,"end":11004.111,"text":"要求拜託督促協助也協助啦新北市政府趕快處理這個問題那院長以您的高度是不是可以拜託請相關的各部會就是剛剛由向點名的農業部經濟部甚至文化部等等能夠一起下來幫我們解決這樣礦區土地的再利用重利用的問題這是我的請求"},{"start":11006.533,"end":11021.962,"text":"謝謝委員從520以來我們一直認為國土激發法是一個非常重要而且必須實施的所以剛剛您說的包括內政部都一直在跟地方做一些溝通尤其是在最近這幾個月下來因為6月30一過我們知道時程已經相當的急迫了"},{"start":11022.322,"end":11048.813,"text":"希望在明年4月之前有充裕的時間做二級的審查所以這個活動我們一直在進行當中這樣我如果去到這個礦區的這個地方告訴他們原來這個法跟你們的未來是息息相關你多年的問題終於可以因為這個法通過解決大家都會鼓掌拍手我覺得這就是解釋的問題啦委員說的國土計畫不只解決農地的問題是解決國家土地是解決國家的問題所以我非常期待不會動起來大家一起努力"},{"start":11051.909,"end":11052.75,"text":"謝謝蘇委員謝謝卓院長下一位請吳宗憲委員質詢"},{"start":11078.585,"end":11084.591,"text":"麻煩請院長、法務部長、經濟部長、交通部長羅院長、法務部長、交通部長還有經濟部長"},{"start":11108.116,"end":11126.617,"text":"吳委員好院長部長各位早安院長在3個多月前我質詢的時候曾經有跟你提過我們希望說你不是只擔任民進黨大師兄其實你要當我們中華民國的大師兄要照顧我們全台灣的"},{"start":11127.778,"end":11149.608,"text":"但是這段時間從國會改革的激烈的鬥爭還有新清安物價通膨兩岸緊張還有總統放棄和平的這種想法這個其實讓我當初覺得說希望說院長能夠擔任全民的大師兄這個好像都是背道而馳"},{"start":11150.808,"end":11172.469,"text":"那我想齁在上一次有很多部長請假這件事情我覺得讓我想到其實我們當初國會改革的法案裡面其實挑問裡面就有說怎麼樣可以請假只要經過主席同意就可以但是當然這個法案到最後被大家你們聯手把他擋在外面嘛那否則其實以韓院長的個性部長向他"},{"start":11173.951,"end":11186.709,"text":"找個原因請教我想韓院長應該都會同意也不會造成後面這麼多問題甚至大家就談論到說這是不是違反了憲法權力分立上面行政院應該對立法院負責的這個概念"},{"start":11187.537,"end":11215.116,"text":"那我覺得我看到了第8屆第4次會期的時候也是有類似的狀況但民進黨那時候是用迴憲亂政當作理由直接要求行政院的江一樺前院長要先道歉才能上台進行施政報告那至少今天國民黨的做法不是把整個議場鬧亂轟轟你再回過頭去想第8屆的時候民進黨的那個做法你會覺得說"},{"start":11216.457,"end":11221.543,"text":"我是建議說還是不要這樣子不要把立法院不當一回事至少你要向民意負責"},{"start":11224.636,"end":11250.624,"text":"然後另外就是我覺得這段時間你要去思考一個點總統他依照憲法他負責的範圍應該是國防外交但是總統卻被另外一個部長去認證說他可以直接下指示對於你底下的部長去下一道命令去指示去訓斥他其實這個東西就坐實了由部長來認證我們的總統其實是一個獨裁而且破壞憲政體制的總統"},{"start":11251.644,"end":11278.735,"text":"因為總統他認為他不需要到立法院接受質詢結果他卻可以去指揮行政院底下的部長我覺得這個都不對這整個在破壞我國的憲政體制那民進黨不能這樣民進黨不能說憲法對自己有利的時候挑來用動不動罵別人毀憲亂政但是真正想破壞憲法卻是民進黨政府他只挑對自己有利的東西來用然後整天在那邊喊一些莫名其妙毀憲亂政的話"},{"start":11281.066,"end":11299.254,"text":"我希望說我們大家能夠好好的彼此磨合行政院跟我們這些立法委員之間那我相信第一次我們是可以好好談如果第二次還是這樣行政院還是這樣子的讓這個國家這樣下去的話我想民怨還是會出來尤其你看最近總統的信任度"},{"start":11300.477,"end":11323.035,"text":"滿意度跌下來不滿意度又上升其實在在都顯現說這段時間也許施政上面是有問題的那可不可以聽聽我們在講什麼不要說所有的事情都你想幹什麼就是你就自己就自以妄為那這段時間呢2022年我們的數據來看其實貧富差距是加大的那政府最喜歡用吉尼係數"},{"start":11324.195,"end":11345.325,"text":"那吉尼係數我們看最高組別跟最低組別的家庭所得差距已經到6.15倍用吉尼係數來算已經到0.342那0.4的話依據聯合國的標準就會造成社會動盪那我們其實每年都在往那個方向去走這個請行政院千萬要注意到我們不要往"},{"start":11346.004,"end":11373.197,"text":"那個0.4的方向就是聯合國認定會造成社會動盪的這個方向還有就是目前國人的待業痛苦指數是往上飆那個開心指數是往下降這個都有數據可以證明那還有75%的社會新鮮人認為說每個月都存不到錢那我再跟院長報告其實月光族現在已經是幸福了因為有非常大比例其實是根本還不夠生活費"},{"start":11376.099,"end":11393.211,"text":"國家整體的發展,其實我們這段時間CPI一直在暴漲根據最近的瑞士的商務管理學院公布我們的經濟是已經從第6名掉到第26名"},{"start":11394.488,"end":11417.41,"text":"那這個東西都一直指數一直在往下降這可能行政院自己要稍微注意一下那還有這段時間的新清安政策其實讓大家非常痛苦已經4年後的新清安會讓4年後的年輕人首購族會更痛苦這個大家都已經可以預測到所有的這個行內的人都已經知道這個狀況所以尤其是我們現在的那個房價"},{"start":11418.875,"end":11437.275,"text":"平均人民不吃不喝目前已經全國平均到10.35年了那台北甚至到16.08年這個政府到底在創造的是什麼蔡政府上任的第一年告訴大家他要處理的是居住正義就他的居住正義帶來的是建商的居住正義就人民是越來越痛苦"},{"start":11437.856,"end":11466.068,"text":"好那接下來我想請問院長跟法務部長我想請教一下大法官千方百計的幫這37個死刑犯找免死的理由那不要再跟我說死刑何限並沒有說什麼實質廢死大家都內行人不用講這個外行話那我請教一下院長還有部長判決如果被廢棄之後死刑犯會不會被放掉"},{"start":11468.528,"end":11496.807,"text":"跟委員報告齁那個這個是那個憲判的意旨齁那個判決因為必須要先總長先審核這個是有非常上訴的事由之後才會徵最高法院來提來提非常上訴當然最高法院他就這個案件如果這樣委員會講的是有撤銷的話這是一個憲判的意旨這個是擠壓擠壓你不要跟我講這個憲判你就跟我說如果回復"},{"start":11497.828,"end":11501.112,"text":"在判決之前不會放掉根據那個監獄行政148條第一項的規定這是能繼續收容中"},{"start":11512.769,"end":11541.391,"text":"他死刑判決已經被非常上訴掉了還可以收容嗎那個是判決之前如果說非常上訴最高法院判決他是重新來有羈押的我們會建請他羈押有羈押的這是重新計算的那法院不押呢法院可以不押啊如果法院不押呢那這37個人你們怎麼處理這個我們建立法院要羈押"},{"start":11542.608,"end":11547.271,"text":"部長重罪羈押重罪不能當作唯一羈押的理由這應該是一個common sense吧部長"},{"start":11573.209,"end":11598.804,"text":"這個我想法院一定是根據訴訟法第7色的規定來做一個懲罰來羈押部長重罪不是羈押的唯一理由這你可以去隨便問一下一個檢察官你不能犯這種最低階的錯誤這個我們不是低階錯誤我們就是就法論法好啦沒關係我不跟你爭辯反正我告訴你就是這樣重罪不是唯一羈押的理由所以這些人有可能會被法院放掉那你們有沒有因應之道"},{"start":11602.591,"end":11604.552,"text":"如果法院不押,你們有沒有因應之道?"},{"start":11633.171,"end":11657.244,"text":"委員您也是擔任過檢察官您也知道跟法院之間這種關係法院真的不押檢察官也沒有辦法但是我認為這幾個案件他除了是一個嚴重之罪之外他都經過確定的審判所以很確定他在這個行為人必須負這個責任我認為法院還是會做最清楚的如果需要的話最清楚的決定"},{"start":11664.186,"end":11669.997,"text":"除非法院有判決無罪要釋放之外只要判決是有罪的我認為法院會押"},{"start":11674.135,"end":11691.765,"text":"法官不押,基壓有他一定的要件,那依照我來看,現行的這些人他符合要件不是每個人都百分之百符合,所以常常檢察官認為要押,法官就沒有押嘛,那如果今天法官沒有押的情況下,把人"},{"start":11692.645,"end":11719.073,"text":"沒有其他的理由了那我只是在請教法務部有沒有因應的作為就有什麼跟我講那麼多那就沒有意思了部長院長大家都內行人不用在那邊講外行話法院如果不押的話法務部請問有什麼作為題目就那麼簡單我不認為這些已經經過三審定言的案件法院的判決的結果會有不押的一個情形"},{"start":11721.94,"end":11747.822,"text":"部長你以前當檢察官的時候 申請羈押有沒有法院 不過你那時候可能沒有這個問題全國的檢察官生押都認為法院會押 但是法官常常都把人放掉 所以部長我們對法院要有信心因為你也沒有命令法官的這個權限嘛 好吧你沒有辦法回答這個問題 我知道你們根本就還沒有任何因應的作為但是這個問題已經吵十幾年了 到今天跟我說沒有因應的作為 那我也是嘆為觀止啊"},{"start":11749.922,"end":11773.562,"text":"這我想全國的這37個死刑犯他所造成的61條人命的家屬該不能接受你們的這個意見了第二個問題請教院長跟部長執行他們判決死刑確定之後收容的這段時間將來可不可以如果將來改判無期徒刑的話或改判有期徒刑的話可不可以折抵刑期收容的期間"},{"start":11776.026,"end":11790.206,"text":"這個因為根據刑法的規定必須要執行之後才有折抵的問題那現在是待執行待執行的實行犯這個首長是不能依法的不能折抵那如果說我們那個修法的這份我們也是反對折抵的"},{"start":11792.291,"end":11806.929,"text":"就是這部分你們反對折抵嘛那我想說這個只是一個確定下來因為以前沒有這個問題那現在既然發生了因為如果可以折抵的話會造成很多人將來萬一判無嫉妒刑他馬上就可以申請假釋對不對因為最終審頂多壓6次12個月嘛"},{"start":11810.794,"end":11826.981,"text":"那如果說12個月後他判無期徒刑那再回過頭去算那個收容的期間有的已經20幾年還沒有執行嘛那收容的期間加進來搞不好適用舊法15年得假釋的申請的話那搞不好他們在判決"},{"start":11828.507,"end":11849.947,"text":"無期徒刑的那個時候他就可以申請假釋了所以我蠻認同部長剛剛說的收容期間你們不會列入刑期的計算我是要確認這個點部長這有沒有什麼問題現實的情況就是不能折抵我現在是一個很深刻的期望這我本來只想問五分鐘但花太多時間了"},{"start":11850.592,"end":11868.83,"text":"我希望一件事情,因為這幾天那個新北哥歐安那個楊爸爸他昨天在接受訪問的時候甚至哭出來了我們都有小孩子嘛,我們都知道白髮人送黑髮人那種心痛那絕對是傷痛欲絕,我們都能夠理解嘛我希望一件事情,不要對這些被害者的家屬"},{"start":11870.401,"end":11871.442,"text":"我們一定要讓這個國家對好人更好對壞人更好"},{"start":11898.479,"end":11910.835,"text":"我們還是要讓這些犯罪的行為人要讓他們付出該有的代價部長你跟我以前都是檢察官我們對於正義真的是無可救藥的熱情我們一定要這樣堅持下去好不好"},{"start":11912.09,"end":11933.819,"text":"謝謝委員我們體會委員的心情這個部分我們是站在同一個線上對這種在為非作歹的這些歹徒我覺得公權力一定要伸張起來謝謝院長對就是公權力我們一定要讓他伸張我們要讓人民要尊重公權力這樣社會才會平安所以我前一天我有講"},{"start":11935.34,"end":11943.254,"text":"當人民千方百計的在追求出入平安的時候我們的政府不能千方百計的為這些犯罪行為的人去求情"},{"start":11944.179,"end":11965.65,"text":"這些人他甚至是我們每年有非常多件殺人計稅的案子但是我們很多年才會有一件死刑案子所以這些人都是法官認證要永久與社會隔絕的那今天我們又千方百計的為他們求情其實對於這些被害的家屬情何以堪那我再請教一下院長院長"},{"start":11967.538,"end":11989.255,"text":"還包括那個法務部長我們其實在之前我們就提出來要求說因為我們一直希望說接避責保護法我們讓他能夠過讓他能夠順利的立法但是呢我們要求能夠在兩個月內把草案送過來因為草案已經出來了嘛但是一直沒有送來可不可以告訴我們"},{"start":11990.135,"end":12014.051,"text":"趕快把他送來因為我們經過上一次的國會改革法案動不動你就給我送視線然後我們今天我們跟民眾黨我們有一些草案希望出來結果到時候又要被你們送視線嗎所以是不是行政院這邊可以趕快把揭秘者這個草案送到立法院來讓我們能夠審我們能夠把各個版本趕快審出一個對國家有幫助的"},{"start":12014.992,"end":12032.147,"text":"因為國家有很多弊案包括之前的雞蛋超市的問題武器採購的問題疫苗採購的問題我們真的深刻的希望有這些接避者能夠勇於出來接避但是我們真的需要他們我們需要這個法案過關可不可以請你們趕快把草案送到立法院來"},{"start":12033.086,"end":12051.602,"text":"包括法務部也正在審查過程當中我們認為對於公私部門要做怎麼樣的原則性的處置還在深度的討論但是進度是有的那我希望這個能夠來凝聚更高一點的共識我們再來放在修法過程當中時間真的太久了如果說你們對私部門還有所"},{"start":12055.794,"end":12056.615,"text":"這部分我們那個保護部已經"},{"start":12075.953,"end":12103.813,"text":"年尾的第15版因為我們要廣大各界的一個意見吧應該跟委員清楚現在本來是公私合併後來公私公私分立的立法的一個政策那我想公部門這邊我們再廣大意見我們是提出第15個版本那我只能拜託你們速度能夠加快好不好如果真的不行的話那我們這邊就只好用我們的版本開始審理我們就只能這樣做因為從上個會期我們就一直拜託你們了而且這個法案已經躺在你們那裡躺了很久"},{"start":12104.193,"end":12132.228,"text":"所以真的要麻煩你們速度能夠快那再來 院長其實這段時間我們看到很多問題包括我個人認為能源政策是整個錯誤的政策你不要跟我講什麼AI內閣啦AI最需要的就是電力嘛那你現在講你以後將來電力的狀況能不能夠補上這個缺口我覺得明眼人都知道未來會怎麼樣只是大家現在都不談而已好 那我們現在先不著重這個問題我想跟院長請教一下"},{"start":12135.5,"end":12151.793,"text":"煙圈這個東西我認為這個東西我們是不是應該思考一下最近是不是很長一段時間我們該漲的不漲不該漲的卻一直漲比如說電價我認為說一個正確的能源政策他就不會說讓電價今天漲成這樣"},{"start":12153.815,"end":12165.767,"text":"那我現在也為什麼不想再問電的問題因為我覺得問來問去答案都是騙人的就像最早期民進黨跟我們講說台電在偷電結果呢 台電有沒有偷電 沒有啊民進黨政府跟我說"},{"start":12166.84,"end":12191.808,"text":"御能之後臺灣不會缺電結果呢我認為不缺電是騙人那告訴我說不會大規模的漲電價這也都騙人所以到最後我已經被騙了三次了我真的沒有辦法再相信你們對於能源方面的給我們的保證那我是請教一下有關那個菸娟的部分其實我們菸娟已經非常久沒有去討論這個議題了我不知道院長知不知道這個部分"},{"start":12193.368,"end":12193.928,"text":"市長市長市長"},{"start":12217.028,"end":12236.687,"text":"的制度會做檢討因為今年應該會再開會因為每兩年要開一次會我們是不是要再思考這個部分因為我從國建署的資料來看CNN人口是上升的這是國建署自己公布的資料所以如果這樣的話你去漲電價不該漲的漲結果燕捐從98年到現在沒有調漲過"},{"start":12241.411,"end":12269.834,"text":"我所上的資料就是91年5塊95年10塊然後到最近是98年調到20塊之後就沒有再思考過這部分再麻煩你們因為我現在在外面看到很多地方都抽菸的人越來越多我沒有歧視他們但是我們希望他們健康所以我們是不是增加一點他們的負擔讓他們少抽一點對自己也比較好他們的家人也會很高興部長院長你們做出這樣的決策好嗎這部分再麻煩你們一下"},{"start":12273.101,"end":12301.112,"text":"另外經濟部長這邊我有一個問題想要請教一下就是我們在2022年有提出一個能源轉型就是淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明裡面有四個領域就是能源轉型、產業轉型、生活轉型跟社會轉型那我想請問一下我們總共編列的預算有1161億那你知不知道"},{"start":12302.544,"end":12323.201,"text":"我們這個所謂的四大領域的12項關鍵戰略是什麼使用經費最高的前三名是什麼請問那個部長知道嗎這個部分我不是那麼清楚好吧沒關係可是這花了我們一千多億所以部長要麻煩你不能不清楚"},{"start":12323.991,"end":12343.169,"text":"那其實我們使用最高的費用最高是電力系統儲能第二是風電光電第三是節能那我必須講一下這個還是源自於我個人認為錯誤的能源政策至少我自己個人這麼認為我知道各位一定有很多理由但是我個人認為我國能源政策是完全錯誤而且他帶動的那個"},{"start":12345.247,"end":12373.848,"text":"﹚"},{"start":12374.198,"end":12380.656,"text":"在立場上面也許我們各有立場但是我想心裡大家可能想法也不會插到太多所以"},{"start":12382.329,"end":12407.655,"text":"所以我剛剛跟那個部長說你還是要去弄清楚因為花了一千多億不能說都沒有什麼效果出來你剛剛那個成本的這樣的標示不是非常的正確核電的部分要很多的隱性的成本跟未來的成本那風電太陽能光電它也有非常多隱性的成本他們將來這些東西過了年限之後的銷毀以及它對於自然環境的傷害"},{"start":12408.595,"end":12427.063,"text":"這個東西院長也是隱形的成本但是呢兩個權衡之下誰好誰壞你要去思考為什麼全世界的主流是那樣我們反主流而行然後你現在跟我說的隱形成本世界的大廠來台灣都要求我們要提供綠電說我們必須要提供綠電給他們才能跟世界接軌"},{"start":12431.025,"end":12458.355,"text":"但是你要去思考一下這真的是永續了嗎還是一樣還有一個SDGs他所對於產品生產能源的要求他的能源要綠能乾淨能源的要求這個未來做不做得到將來碳稅的問題將來某些國家或歐盟地區等等不願意採購骯髒能源所生產的產品這個都是我們要考量我們不能把這個責任丟給10年後20年後的這些人民他們自己去承受"},{"start":12458.695,"end":12461.597,"text":"這是我個人素選的認為沒有產生現在的核能跟核廢我們也願意開放來討論的我本人潛見公參那我們來看看之後我們說的這東西會不會變成是一個事實"},{"start":12473.865,"end":12500.507,"text":"好那我們先我們花那麼多錢我們希望降低碳排但是其實這段時間碳排還是一樣非常的嚴重那我我想說這個也是再回過頭去還是還是一樣能源的問題啦因為一個錯誤能源政策讓我們每個人均的碳排指數其實非常的高甚至超越到超越日本韓國那些所以我們這個對嗎這我想說可能再麻煩"},{"start":12501.816,"end":12503.958,"text":"其他部長是不是請回部長我想請問一下"},{"start":12526.963,"end":12550.843,"text":"你之前有說這個台鐵誤點5分鐘是可以接受那真的誤點是好嗎那你知不知道去年誤點的狀況是什麼我沒有說5分鐘可以接受我那天覺得誤點5分鐘對我來說當然沒有像高鐵那麼精準所以還有改善的空間但是台鐵他們給我的數據他們算的所謂的誤點率的部分5分鐘以內算在準點率裡面"},{"start":12552.298,"end":12575.425,"text":"但是我會跟你說私人的企業可不這麼接受甚至你不要講別的我們立法院開會9點開會9點就要開會也沒有所謂的霧點這個東西所以這東西你這樣講了以後底下台鐵人都鬆一口氣超開心五分鐘部長認證OK這是他們原本就訂好的標準這不是我講的這是他們原本就訂好的標準但我還是有要求"},{"start":12576.061,"end":12604.588,"text":"像高鐵這麼精準才是大家想要的目標所以我希望台鐵的準點率要再加強那你總是要有一些想法跟措施出來嗎那所以我剛問你你知不知道台鐵去年誤點多少次你知道嗎次數我不曉得您的數字是143萬次然後發生率是五成其實這個是還滿驚人的那所以我們可以這樣子嗎就是說部長你不能說這個五分鐘這個"},{"start":12606.448,"end":12622.144,"text":"好啦那沒關係不管你怎麼講我認為他應該要更準點啦我認為他應該要更準點這個我的想法會跟委員是一樣的他應該要更準點讓民眾不管是通勤也好或者是長途旅遊也好可以抓準自己的時間不會影響到上下班好吧那"},{"start":12624.98,"end":12641.981,"text":"我們就只能跟那新任的部長,那你還是要解決這個台鐵問題,因為我自己辦公室主任他常常遲到我辦公室主任非常常遲到,因為他都要坐台鐵來上班然後每次我跟他溝通的時候,我就講不下去了,因為台鐵就是常常誤點"},{"start":12642.702,"end":12648.626,"text":"台鐵誤點是一個很大的問題,要麻煩,尤其很多私部門開會是不允許遲到的那你這樣會讓有一些民眾其實他們是困擾那第二個問題我要跟部長就教的就是"},{"start":12665.365,"end":12678.831,"text":"捷運或高鐵的站台都有裝設那個門月台門我自己以前的工作經驗我曾經也驗過幾次那個就是鐵路的事故"},{"start":12681.032,"end":12683.575,"text":"報告委員我們目前有規劃在高雄站的部分"},{"start":12702.193,"end":12720.469,"text":"臺鐵"},{"start":12720.709,"end":12732.126,"text":"第一個測試的閘門會在高雄完成當他完成測試之後可以做我們就會挑比較人多的站就是風險相對高的站我們會來設置這個月台門的部分"},{"start":12733.391,"end":12751.017,"text":"那至少就是比較大的站 人多的站 有可能推擠的站 你是不是要優先處理嗎那當然有一些小的站啊 那個當然你們沒有優先處理 我們都可以理解嘛但這部分至少要做吧 那目前火車是不是有那個沒有辦法停到定點的那個位置 有沒有這個問題"},{"start":12752.097,"end":12768.57,"text":"因為他們每一種列車的設計不太一樣高低也會有落差然後門的前後也會有落差但是我看他們停車的部分都還是停在設定的點上面停在設定點上這個是沒有問題的但是門的位置可能都不太一樣"},{"start":12769.57,"end":12797.607,"text":"這樣我知道所以問題是在你們的位置那另外還有一件事情就是我們那個臺東的部分就因為我們臺東那個立委黃建斌立委其實他一直在協調臺東的旅遊補助能夠跟花蓮看齊但是他努力了很久也沒有用可是上次民進黨莊瑞雄委員一到花蓮去任養服務處之後那你們馬上就同意而且他對外宣傳說他搞定了那我想請問一下這是怎麼回事"},{"start":12799.702,"end":12824.071,"text":"不是我們一直在朝這個方向努力包含我本人到花蓮跟花蓮的旅宿業者跟觀光業者座談的時候也有台東的代表過來他也有跟我表示這樣的意見跟誰去任養花蓮這個任養台東這絕對沒有關係我上次到花蓮之後我們就決定說花蓮跟台東要同時"},{"start":12825.191,"end":12828.434,"text":"我之前跟院長報告是說部長以前是政治系出身的"},{"start":12847.079,"end":12865.093,"text":"那當然啦 我是說 真心俗稱 但在施政上面我覺得還是不要有那種政治的分別當然我們現在 我們看到的是結論嘛那結論看到的就是說 國民黨的立委黃建斌一直在在努力奔走 可是他達不到什麼效果但是 鍾瑞雄委員一到台東卻"},{"start":12866.314,"end":12895.703,"text":"就可以很順利的做到很多事情那施政上面總是不要有敵我之分那如果是誤解那也可以用其他的方式來讓大家知道這是個誤解好不好好那最後我想跟月朗報告因為時間不夠了就是老人的問題因為現在低收入的那個族群65歲以上的這低收入一直在增加那依照現在不動產的這個價格大家也都買不起所以是不是"},{"start":12896.94,"end":12897.641,"text":"謝謝吳委員 謝謝卓院長"},{"start":12920.478,"end":12942.866,"text":"下一位楊耀委員的質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報言會上午質詢到此為止本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案就不進行臨時提案之處理下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":21179.497,"end":21188.22,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21212.773,"end":21215.691,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21256.937,"end":21259.605,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21329.718,"end":21351.674,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21355.776,"end":21360.196,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21394.537,"end":21396.618,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21421.834,"end":21423.378,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21454.548,"end":21465.771,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21494.487,"end":21510.93,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21517.31,"end":21537.722,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":21555.776,"end":21563.507,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21619.106,"end":21623.53,"text":"發言會現在繼續開會進行施政報告之質詢請有號委員質詢"},{"start":21646.34,"end":21650.374,"text":"謝謝主席 有請行政院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21661.345,"end":21685.151,"text":"是 委員好 院長好那在這裡本席也是要先表達一下在開米風災 院長跟副院長還有包括工程會主委還有交通部還有警統會部第一時間的來協助開米風災那那時候配合許主席許縣長徵取的39億那這次有核定了33億多那這次徵取的這個經費"},{"start":21686.271,"end":21701.698,"text":"總質詢"},{"start":21702.609,"end":21722.569,"text":"請教一下左院長那在這次雙十國慶的一個主事節那在設計美學跟國家的象徵意涵的話如果讓你來打一個分數那就我們這次的國慶的主辦跟這個意向還有這些辛苦同仁的籌劃那我想問一下院長你可以打幾分我常常說這個"},{"start":21728.319,"end":21754.444,"text":"藝術是非常主觀的像這種技術是非常不打折的那藝術非常主觀你列出來是歷年來雙十國慶的各種的標誌我想大家可以自己看自己喜歡的這個早有預期但是就這一次來講如果打個分數的話那你覺得打個幾分覺得適合我覺得能夠把一個活動辦好的話每一個都象徵圓滿"},{"start":21756.007,"end":21757.928,"text":"我接著要針對地方的議題兩個議題先來跟您就教第一就是我們張南大橋的一個可行性"},{"start":21778.115,"end":21805.371,"text":"那在之前的話其實在上市交通委員會來辦考察本席有邀這交通委員會那時候是李孟彥部長來看我們這個地點的時候他這個是從彰化到南投以前原本預計要後續要做一個是快速道路那因為南投的鄉親有時候要坐高鐵必須要繞到雲林的林內再走到二水再到田中才能夠來搭乘高鐵非常的不方便"},{"start":21805.931,"end":21831.153,"text":"那所以說在這個蟑螂大橋未來也會連接著到包括彰化到海邊海線的一個貫穿那所以這個蟑螂大橋是本來也就在一個規劃上那這一次的考察有爭取到這個可行性評估的計畫那也謝謝交通部也是核定了預計就是將近800萬的經費還配合縣府的配額款來做可行性評估"},{"start":21831.974,"end":21855.192,"text":"那因為這樣子的一個重大建設是關係到南投跟彰化其實這兩個縣市需要有一個重大建設也能夠讓我們南投的鄉親搭高鐵更為便利所以本席想在這裡也請這個院長跟部長是不是持續來支持這個張南大橋的一個推動請部長了解說明一下"},{"start":21855.814,"end":21879.244,"text":"好 這個張南大橋委員也爭取了一段時間我看照片裡面李部長當時也有到現場跟我們的許縣長那我知道南投的鄉親很希望有這座大橋那彰化其實也有這種聲音也希望說有一個張南大橋對於彰化的鄉親要往南投去也比較方便而且他如果要去高速公路有時候從南投這邊可能會相對近一點所以這個部分中央也已經核定了這個"},{"start":21879.684,"end":21883.446,"text":"政策的推動尤其是建設的推動大型建設已經是延續了所以部長對於這個張蘭大小也會延續當初李孟彥部長一樣表達支持"},{"start":21898.655,"end":21912.321,"text":"是沒有錯那左院長也是表達支持有助於地方的我們都一起來研究成為一個地方大家需要的建設好謝謝因為這個是裡面有太多的故事但是總是南投鄉親的一個寄望"},{"start":21913.662,"end":21917.705,"text":"我們看到我們的一個重要的培訓選手的地方是南投的福星球場福星壘球場"},{"start":21939.781,"end":21939.801,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":21958.312,"end":21974.529,"text":"夠友好經費要夠建設要有新師訓練水平未來要好那所以說在這個南投縣的這個福星能夠打造為我國女壬選手的培訓基地是不是可以拜託我們的院長來表達支持"},{"start":21975.433,"end":21989.809,"text":"是 這個福星球場它在2023年也是亞洲盃女子壘球的比賽的場地可見除了硬體之外南投歷年來也有相當多的民間跟學校所這個籌備的籌組這個女壘球隊"},{"start":21992.532,"end":21992.552,"text":"委員："},{"start":22009.019,"end":22009.039,"text":"委員："},{"start":22026.58,"end":22051.23,"text":"那是不是就可以來支持相關這個我們福興這個場地的一些相關的整建因為現在有對尼磊有一些階段性的進度已經在進行那是不是要補充一下協會委員關心這一個怎麼樣讓南投能夠這個福興球場能夠成為我們包含南投成為尼磊的一個選手的一個培訓基地確實這個體委會提署"},{"start":22053.531,"end":22061.783,"text":"提署這一個我們今年也補助了270幾萬對這個相關的一些場地跟設施做一些改善做以上補充"},{"start":22062.731,"end":22090.631,"text":"那因為在我們地方上包括壘球運動是我們潘玉璇副議長那包括羅理事長體育會理事長都非常積極用心在推動那也非常有成果那也希望這個未來在這個培訓基地的部分我們不只經費在將來升個體育機運動發展部之後也能夠在那麼好的成績的這個女壘包括場地能夠持續給予支持是不是可以"},{"start":22094.487,"end":22113.863,"text":"是因為這個總是需要表個態當然我想這一個確實南投本來就是一個非常好的一個林磊的一個長期是一個特色的一個運動項目我想這一個體育署這邊會來支持成為女壘選手的培育基地是OK好謝謝"},{"start":22116.906,"end":22137.711,"text":"好那接著要就叫我們院長那等下也會跟這經濟部長相關那也有請部長那在審計部公布112年中央政府總預算審核報告揭露總預算跟特別稅出稅入的並計之後2024到2029年均為短差那2024年預計短處高達4905億"},{"start":22144.853,"end":22160.588,"text":"那在過去的8年許多的特別預算還進行這些許多比較算是撒錢跟討好的過程那也造成這個政府中央政府的財政長期負擔的一個非常沉重"},{"start":22161.289,"end":22180.462,"text":"所以過去來講說五年超徵稅收經濟表現良好但是在審計部提出的報告卻指出了未來五年將會入不敷出甚至經營的經費短處將近五千億元那在這樣子的美化的數字底下還是都是百姓的血跟淚"},{"start":22181.567,"end":22196.387,"text":"那過去所支出的這些錢未來還是要還的那不管是子孫要還甚至曾孫要還那這些錢要怎麼花花了多少負債多少中央政府還是必須要跟民眾講清楚當然"},{"start":22197.468,"end":22211.805,"text":"這個部分牽扯到過去的行政院長或是行政團隊左院長你是520之後就任現在也是在幫過去的這些施政的問題現在要去做改善 包括部長也是"},{"start":22212.566,"end":22240.655,"text":"那所以說還是要跟民眾講清楚因為國人不知道的是國債中已經創下了6兆4128億元平均未來每人都要負擔27.4萬元的歷史新高那再次總預算編列了3兆多創下了最高紀錄但是錢必須要花在刀口上因為這些稅收跟民脂民膏就是得來不易但是國人還在生活上還需要有更多的改善"},{"start":22242.318,"end":22270.449,"text":"所以跟軍隊組織總署所統計的8月的CPI的年增率啊2.36已經連續4個月突破了2%的通膨脊界線不管現在年輕人在外食還食物類房租甚至看醫生的掛號費、電費、機票、交通服務費等都在調漲最低工資不管調整錢包的鈔票一樣進了馬上就花出去所以其實現在民生過得還是蠻辛苦"},{"start":22271.289,"end":22271.309,"text":"委員長"},{"start":22302.17,"end":22319.022,"text":"本席要針對電價的問題來進行討論但是在問電價的問題許多民眾在關心這院長官邸的電費目前台電調查的結果如何那諸位請朋友我藉這個機會在請假電價問題之前先讓院長能夠說明一下"},{"start":22321.164,"end":22335.697,"text":"我們都相信台灣經濟的體質本質上是很好的只要全民繼續的努力大家一起團結那我們在高科技的發展以及我們對中小企業做更多的包容成長的社會投資跟國家的投資應該會穩定的發展"},{"start":22337.378,"end":22364.261,"text":"那麼過去有一些用特別預算來支應的國家重大建設因為它卻有其必要像前瞻基礎建設到底是讓整個地方在短時間內8年當中成就了相當多的這個地方的建設但是今年明年我們的預算第一個我們沒有編特別的預算我們只執行了前面特別預算的最後幾期的這個執行所以我們的預算的額度會稍微的擴大那這個也請大院能夠支持"},{"start":22364.801,"end":22386.829,"text":"那我們為了讓這個社會的正義能夠更普遍的去成長發展我們也對這個最低工資予以提升那麼對社會的包容成長我們做很多的貢獻我們預計本來預計到年底我們的CPI會穩定下降但是因為現在颱風又將來臨我們一定要在非常可控的範圍內"},{"start":22387.54,"end":22413.66,"text":"我們再謹慎的去評估是不是這個物價的波動不要超越我們原來的預計甚至做有效的控管我覺得這個才是穩定民生照顧民生最重要的好那院長關底的部分要不要臺電的報告做個回應謝謝委員在座的關心我們確實請臺電檢查了關底所有的電器用品當中確實發生一些比較老舊的電器用品包括冷氣在內"},{"start":22414.801,"end":22434.06,"text":"他確實是相當的耗電秘書處已經在這個時候把所有的老舊的冷氣都已經更換成新的那我們希望說有新的節能的電器用品再加上人為能夠更加的去節約用電未來官邸的用電我們會持續的關心"},{"start":22435.911,"end":22440.474,"text":"我們對電價有幾個原則一個是反應成本一個是照顧民生穩定物價跟節能減碳那只有他他一直往他的成本價來賣給國內的工業用戶"},{"start":22458.911,"end":22469.583,"text":"那它就會比較有健全的財務但是民生的部分我們會用更多的國家政策跟預算來做平穩的過程那這個部分臺電經濟部在這兩天跟電價審議委員會的討論當中都做了詳細的規劃那在青年度的話電價還會再漲價嗎"},{"start":22477.671,"end":22480.854,"text":"今年度明年的話 未來的話還是會持續的調整"},{"start":22501.82,"end":22523.536,"text":"未來的部分我們當然是看整體的這個狀況這個我想是院長做決定我們基於這個院長的指示那麼這一次名稱的部分然後小的這個生意小商圈甚至於工業也是一樣如果他是衰退的這個工業的話我們大概也不漲"},{"start":22525.554,"end":22530.056,"text":"本來是預定要調高14% 但是電價審議委員做出來的決定就是只漲12.5%總體來講大概有96%的用電戶沒有漲"},{"start":22545.509,"end":22572.37,"text":"那這一個漲價的意思我們還是不是完全可以到賺錢的狀態不過我還是需要大院委員能夠協助我們改善台電的財務情況那部長有讓你充分的說明那剛才你也提到了外的條長還是會在於院長怎麼指示"},{"start":22573.12,"end":22588.287,"text":"那最主要是 電價未來是不是不會再漲價 其實當然是民眾關心阿那包括這影響著這個包括相關的一個通膨或是大家一個民眾預期的心理"},{"start":22589.704,"end":22606.895,"text":"公務委員報告我們是在討論的過程當中我們會先討論出幾項我們認為重要的原則把它文字化之後在審議委員會開會的時候由台電跟經濟部去做一些原則性大家的討論而不是在對最後的結果做任何的指示"},{"start":22607.695,"end":22634.45,"text":"這一次我們的漲價影響的通膨只有0.03%所以跟這個委員報告這樣子的影響CPI其實是非常微弱的應該是不會影響這個物價的這個波動好那我就直接接著就教像剛才有提到的這是反英明聲也需要說這個但是事實上民眾的生活目前確實是苦哈哈"},{"start":22635.302,"end":22640.083,"text":"那台天的黑洞不僅是政策的問題還有包括內部的問題那我就直接"},{"start":22641.661,"end":22665.895,"text":"針對之前立委提報在臺電大林電廠使用造假的防爆設備那多年來放水包庇相關工程約80億同樣的場址那民進黨的立委也提報大林電廠赤字560億買的爛的設備那這些錢卻完全無法使用那部長那這一案的關注性要如何解釋那以及說這個案子後續會怎麼處理"},{"start":22667.539,"end":22685.52,"text":"報告委員 您剛才指教的大齡電廠的部分我們現在到目前為止所看到的資料是符合規範但是如果我們現在已經積極介入了調查如果查到的是有不法的行徑我們當然是依法辦理"},{"start":22686.124,"end":22706.835,"text":"那我想這個部分因為畢竟朝野的立委都有提到那到最後的結果也要讓社會大眾也一併也能夠知道畢竟國會改革的話當初目前在走向視線那很多的弊案是要查就必須一定得查我相信在中央政府也同樣持著一樣的立場"},{"start":22708.099,"end":22708.779,"text":"臺電目前虧損的金額是多少?"},{"start":22734.108,"end":22746.134,"text":"目前在台電2024年前7月合計今年7月以前累虧是529億那扣掉撥補的部分目前累虧原本是達到4348億那所以台電的虧損是持續在增加不斷的"},{"start":22749.551,"end":22778.12,"text":"那不同的發言方式每度的成本不同核電的話是1.1元天然氣是3.11元太陽光電是5元風電是7元那現在的台電在今年4月電價上漲11%之後平均電價為3.4518那但是購買天然氣光電跟風電其實都要賠錢的那剛才如部長所講就是中央政府近年來是連續編列的包括3000億在晶圓台電"},{"start":22779.81,"end":22803.088,"text":"那我們當然也肯定臺電的努力阿那2023、2024年編列的包括增資臺電1500億、1000億此外2023年曾經以特別預算補貼臺電500億那要接著請問一下部長到底一個合理的電價要達到損益兩平的話電價未來可能會朝向再漲到多少%"},{"start":22804.346,"end":22816.478,"text":"報告委員我想這個部分是這樣子就是說大家所關心的是核電的這個成本事實上以我們現在統計下來我們的這個機組大概影響的每度電是0.11"},{"start":22818.541,"end":22818.581,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":22840.674,"end":22843.076,"text":"臺電的虧損也有包括過去的一個政策相關的一個政策性的"},{"start":22859.9,"end":22882.12,"text":"補貼到時候導致台電不斷的虧損所以在講惡霧戰爭的部分我覺得這個是但是近兩年但是這個的虧損是從以前不斷的造成但是錯誤的政策有時候是更可怕那沒關係因為依照學者所推估台電必須要漲到4.83到5.17才能夠損一兩平但是這樣子的學者的推估"},{"start":22882.904,"end":22910.805,"text":"造成的是民眾的恐慌還有嚴重的通膨直接電價這樣子間接直接對於物價的影響至少就會在2.4%到3.6%的預測所以說這樣是國人無法承受那所以說目前來講這兩年有可能因為民生的一個苦民所苦那院長這邊也能夠在這兩年的話維持現在既有的電價而不會漲到5.17元嗎"},{"start":22914.048,"end":22937.612,"text":"我們現在是4.29所以這是調整之後那剛剛委員提到說臺電的補貼確實有過去對於學校醫院社福團體臺電都吸收了一些電費的這個負擔那以後要讓他財政健全就希望他回到目的世界主管機關去做編列讓臺電不用承受太多的這樣的一個補貼的政策"},{"start":22938.192,"end":22966.779,"text":"另外就是如果沒有國際因素重要的影響這個原物料他就會比較穩定台積的經營就比較可以在可預控的範圍當中希望他財務健全其實跟院長就是回應一下如果說補學校社福團體的補貼的話其實大家相對的話都沒有問題的但是如果說是過去對於太陽能的一些政策的補貼那這樣子也是一個大的黑洞那這一塊來講的話其實不能漏了不提"},{"start":22967.984,"end":22979.623,"text":"社福團體跟學校的話其實大家是沒有意見但是回歸民生那剛才說學者數據指出的這個5.17的部分這兩年是不是不會調整到這個漲幅"},{"start":22981.075,"end":23003.166,"text":"因為這個是民眾他們所關心的目前台電的發電的成本就不會這麼高那這一次電價審議委員會通過的新的計算方式之後工業大戶的購電成本就接近於台電的成本但是一般民生用電還是相差蠻大所以我們未來如果用"},{"start":23004.67,"end":23018.273,"text":"政府的補貼的政策就會是去彌補這個民生的部分對工業的用電我們希望它使用者附會對方通膨不僅是電費包括明年2026年碳費也即將上路"},{"start":23019.451,"end":23039.953,"text":"歐盟開了第一槍 包括2026年對進口的高碳排的產品進行課稅當然這也都會增加企業的一個生產成本還進而又轉嫁到消費者身上 那又是通膨上升那我國在113年3月公布了臺灣2050的碳排放路徑跟策略總說明"},{"start":23040.697,"end":23065.396,"text":"那之後包括在112年2月也公布了溫室氣體減量法修正為汽油因應變遷因應法那來做這個法制的基礎那本條就叫在目前的因應這個碳排也算是能夠抗通膨節能減碳的這個政策上中華民國我們目前中央政府建構了什麼樣的綠色金融機制或是推動措施請董事長"},{"start":23067.011,"end":23095.41,"text":"謝謝委員其實我們目前台灣已經進入碳定價的時代明年1月1號開始我們就會開始徵收碳費但是我們初期的碳費不會高目前是300塊到500塊那還有一個優惠費率所以基本上我們有算過這個300塊或500塊或是說優惠費率的話其實對於我們CPI影響比漲電價只有漲電價的十分之一左右所以影響不是很大但是如果這個企業因為他能夠少繳一點錢來提出自主減量計畫的話"},{"start":23096.431,"end":23103.393,"text":"目前來講在地方政府他們也積極的在推動包括在台北市跟高雄市都已經發行了永續發展的債券台北市政府為了改善捷運的環境還在113年1月10號發行了社會責任債券兩億元"},{"start":23125.04,"end":23140.668,"text":"後面分別有2年期3年期5年期那在高雄的部分他也在113年1月10號發行了2年的綠色債券20億元那請問一下院長那中央政府是不是也要推動永續發展的債券"},{"start":23142.021,"end":23161.978,"text":"這個都是在環境部的這個規劃當中第一個是我們現在在跟國發會爭取國發基金100億的綠色成長基金然後來協助這個產業來投資新的產業這個在進行當中希望明年可以過然後明年可以開始那另外一個是我們也動員了保險業的資金還有創投業的資金我們先從民間的資金產業的資金來帶動那目前來看的話這個的量"},{"start":23167.783,"end":23196.318,"text":"會比地方政府會大很多那當然啦我們也觀察很多的國家都有新的一些制度例如說像日本的氣候債券然後或是說美國的用減稅 IRA 的方式來處理那我們也都在討論當中那是永續發展債券的計畫中央政府的部分相關內容到時候我們在委員會再持續來討論那接著那要警教一下院長目前來講這國土計畫法那暫緩的部分其實現在你也知道"},{"start":23196.858,"end":23199.02,"text":"國土計畫法的上路問題 大家應該要冷靜的來考慮 而且要理性的來討論"},{"start":23216.692,"end":23234.446,"text":"我們知道現在還有9個縣市沒有送他的功能圖來這個是我們實現上最大的困難時間有限我大致上跟你說就是目前來講轉換國土計劃法的執法有23項那其中14項完成9項還沒完成完成比例大概60.878"},{"start":23236.167,"end":23260.814,"text":"那相關的法律52部 總計94條文 涉及內政部 農業部 經濟部13個部會那目前來講 國土計畫的功能分區圖 那其實也有許多縣市都有造成爭議所以說其實 大家要理性討論沒有錯 那可是目前來講造成許多縣市甚至不同政黨的立委 也同樣反映這個需要再延期"},{"start":23261.482,"end":23280.487,"text":"那想要救效一下院長是不是應該要先暫緩還暫緩兩年之後才能夠比較有力的來推動那如果在立法院通過法律的修正延後兩年的話行政院這邊是不是可以配合"},{"start":23281.758,"end":23299.304,"text":"在此之前我們還是極力的、積極的跟地方溝通希望這個功能圖能夠盡快的送來但是我是希望在溝通的過程當中要給廣大的農民朋友們一個正確的訊息而不要告訴他們說國土計畫法一旦實施,農民永是不得翻身這種訊息絕對不要再發生還有充足的時間"},{"start":23302.705,"end":23315.386,"text":"那如果立法院到時候 大家通過了暫緩兩年的話是不是也可以請 院長跟就是內政部這邊也能夠配合著來讓 農民有更多的時間瞭解正確的訊息"},{"start":23316.272,"end":23337.288,"text":"有這樣的修法過程我想農業部內政部都會積極的在協商過程中表達我們的意見但是尊重大家討論的結果但是我希望說國土計畫法是一個對全國國家土地充分支援有效利用的一個上位概念的法律能夠早一天實施當然是我們可以完整的保存國家土地的利用價值"},{"start":23337.895,"end":23338.035,"text":"主席"},{"start":23353.063,"end":23375.804,"text":"要充分的理解所以要充分的了解農業部對農民的照顧對農民的照顧是非常多非常廣的對那也需要一些時間所以說本席在這裡也帶南投這邊表達其實暫緩實施那如果修正法律修正通過之後還是希望行政院跟內政部都能夠配合那也就讓農民能夠有充分的時間"},{"start":23377.045,"end":23400.442,"text":"請簡短回答我們希望說能夠充分溝通然後充分討論那是不是要修法的話當然我們要跟大院的很多委員來探討但是如果你現在延緩兩年的時候那個爭議的議題還是在兩年以後我們還是需要再討論跟部長回覆一下現在連執法在中央單位都還沒有修正完成還有那麼多的單位需要溝通"},{"start":23400.922,"end":23414.176,"text":"我們的國土計畫法現在只剩下一項還沒有作為公告其他的部分是在預告當中快預告完成那許多的執法還在修正沒關係反正其實這個過程中也是告訴我們其實還是有很多需要準備的時間那"},{"start":23416.283,"end":23441.356,"text":"最後我要接著再跟那個院長這邊再提一下黃建斌委員之前所推動的這個觀光的方案那其實在剛才所提到的當然說爭取的這些建設跟這些補貼措施振興措施不分藍綠那是不是也讓院長來說明一下黃建斌委員包括在推動這個方案過去的努力而且以及予以肯定"},{"start":23442.301,"end":23442.761,"text":"好 謝謝游委員 謝謝卓院長"},{"start":23472.816,"end":23497.133,"text":"下一位請蘇清泉委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請院長"},{"start":23500.409,"end":23505.755,"text":"來我們經濟部 農業部來 左院長請備詢 經濟部長 農業部長請備詢蘇委員好市長今天我們屏東高雄一天都休息了"},{"start":23519.906,"end":23524.753,"text":"我剛聽我們劉部長是應變中心的指揮官他對南部的狀況現在蠻憂心但是我們也在充分的準備當中"},{"start":23536.607,"end":23556.993,"text":"我再一次要肯定我們農業部陳部長上次在銷毀那個雞蛋我們在農業生物園區那邊楊瓊英還有張其凱我我們對他的勇敢面對任何一件事情而且是很有膽量的我再一次跟大家肯定陳部長加油這是現在現在的"},{"start":23566.334,"end":23592.299,"text":"施子湘 聶文春 可能也有獨自留住這個他的海拔是700公尺所以各位看到災情已經出來了還沒有登陸就已經災情出來了這個是我們屏東的家樂福全年東西燒光光燒到空空空經濟部這些物資的"},{"start":23593.158,"end":23594.059,"text":"我這裡要要求我們院長"},{"start":23618.497,"end":23631.486,"text":"因為現在要調這個大群抽水區必須是鄉鎮去跟縣府反映然後再跟水利分屬那我這裡要特別跟部長"},{"start":23632.602,"end":23634.383,"text":"那再來就是各位看到上次凱米颱風的補助齁"},{"start":23662.864,"end":23670.986,"text":"當我們一個天然災害品項公告以後那農民要在10天之內去跟公所申請如果他遇到有受到災損的時候他要去跟公所申請這是10天的一個意思"},{"start":23691.28,"end":23699.439,"text":"所以各縣市要切齊啦不要高雄就比較久 屏東 屏東的地方政府我覺得在做事情很差勁"},{"start":23700.802,"end":23726.08,"text":"所以這個要加強我跟委員報告因為不同的縣市它公告的時間點不一樣我們是從公告開始算那另外就是說在一天的部分我們也在新的辦法裡面去做一個彈性的處理因為當你量很多的時候工作也沒辦法同一時間接到那麼多人所以它的處理程序會變慢的時候我們就願意把這個時間把它做一點彈性的延長院長"},{"start":23729.011,"end":23729.151,"text":"拜訪委員："},{"start":23753.312,"end":23773.512,"text":"法定8.2億現在管政部存債3.2億所以我也要肯定一下我們像第七合作分署李分署長李中恩也很認真我叫去勘差到哪裡他就馬上馬上到然後馬上反映我覺得水利署的表現也很好好得好壞就壞啦我絕對不客氣啦"},{"start":23775.794,"end":23798.688,"text":"所以這個要寬裂經費尤其是大排尤其是抽水站像萬丹、雲南來、東港那些都要加強我會盯得很緊跟院長報告那這個是比較誇張這一張是高速高速這個橫的聯絡道路台21啊院長你看到沒有"},{"start":23799.687,"end":23821.785,"text":"那個橋墩這麼低,橋面這麼低,然後整個山洪下來,裡面還有擋土牆,到現在還沒有處理,那這次颱風又來了,整個水都濺了,高速箱,我要請水利署去看,那現在颱風,這個大颱風又來了,整個淹起來,所以高手剛好5個川,淹到2.9米,2.9米是多寬這樣,1.5多寬,"},{"start":23829.144,"end":23850.81,"text":"所以這個要如果是錯誤的設計要怎麼更改我下面的擋土牆要把它趕快清掉你有看那個廟啊那個廟的金螺你看土石流搞成這個樣子這個剛剛在高速就在新豐村跟各位報告所以都要很嚴謹的來看"},{"start":23854.089,"end":23866.359,"text":"平東縣的榮損是全台灣第4嚴重各位看到榮損是4億多那裡面的一個比較誇張的是漁業漁業的摘損才1600多萬陳部長這個為什麼那麼低就是因為我們漁業登記太少"},{"start":23878.447,"end":23887.014,"text":"四五千公頃、四五千港、邦、遼、全國公頃有養殖登記的30%本來不到30%37.2%37.2%一樣是民進黨施政的縣市啊臺南78%啊嘉義86%啊"},{"start":23901.36,"end":23917.93,"text":"我們屏東怎麼那麼糟糕?為什麼?我向委員報告齁我們全台灣的那個養殖面積大概4.1萬公頃然後整體的有水權的齁大概佔66%啦那相對的屏東才37.2比起全國的平均比較低"},{"start":23918.51,"end":23934.929,"text":"那有兩個問題一個問題就是說他的土地共用的問題第二個問題就是水款的問題我現在要處理的就是說我要把這個養殖的登記跟水款先做切離不然你如果拿不到水款你一輩子拿不到登記證"},{"start":23936.192,"end":23950.062,"text":"委員長你可能不知道部長在說的很詳細的就是說你若沒有預約登記證你若遭到災害你是沒辦法賠喔一線都沒辦法賠喔你知道市議要一個選項都六千萬一個兩千萬大家都遭到優惠證了"},{"start":23954.11,"end":23969.118,"text":"副部長 您黨內的國有卡就要跳牢啊報告委員 這是這樣啦 只是說你那些水管沒啊 你要買 賺到你就要感受而已啦但是我們當然是來幫助他 金來拿到水管 因為"},{"start":23970.158,"end":23989.242,"text":"因為補助這個問題 過去我們都沒有發言所以我們要他清醒一下 工業的土地啦 留青菜的土地啦那大館市都一樣啦 都比較特別了 水管 負流水都在那是要做還是不做啦 全部啦 要積極幫他們輔導啦這整個那20幾% 院長都看不下去啦"},{"start":23994.159,"end":23999.961,"text":"我們80年代剛才28%現在已經37.2%那我會先把水源做切割以後讓它有養殖業登記這樣的話天然災害進來的時候比較會有保障第二部分就是說我們跟經濟部水利署這邊就是說變成一個專區我們興建整個供水系統"},{"start":24016.225,"end":24017.346,"text":"做那個海水供應的那個幾乎是全海水的養殖"},{"start":24036.252,"end":24036.392,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":24056.738,"end":24071.248,"text":"因為我們屏東那裡地下水的問題,你現在水調到最高水平,就整個都崩壞了所以那邊要控制,真的跟委員,我相信你是來行的,你應該改善一下我們屏東的經營現在臨北市的浮流水,一天會害八角的九十多萬棟"},{"start":24077.392,"end":24077.552,"text":"給個數字吧"},{"start":24099.181,"end":24109.306,"text":"至少要幾年內要達到加基分齡有人這樣啦 這樣就對那些人學不完規 你知道嗎 餘苗放下去像丁堅海蜜颱風"},{"start":24110.922,"end":24139.034,"text":"委員的關心我們對水資源的善用乃至於對於生態環境的保護我們在這個原則底下積極來協助現在的養殖業者當然是我們的政策但是一定要中央地方能夠配合地方的維護土地資源的維護還是要列為重要的優先因素"},{"start":24141.089,"end":24141.349,"text":"我們會積極來看看"},{"start":24164.411,"end":24185.141,"text":"協助業者能夠在合法的水權底下進行他的這個產業我有開協調會我開協調會彭寮啦、加東啦、阿彬、農農兄弟都來了大家要湊個六條啦所以不一定在地人一定要做個好、關鍵積極來做好不好好啊,月數嘛,這裡說樂觀其成嘛好繼續齁來,現在講"},{"start":24193.508,"end":24212.618,"text":"這個昨天晚上,這是人家叫我問的吳淑長叫我弄弄屎我跟大家報告,我們警察是第二陸軍我們的海巡署是第二海軍警察條例35條大家關心一下"},{"start":24218.489,"end":24246.227,"text":"我們總統說他是山君的靠山我覺得非常的不捨,非常的痛惜在執法的過程當中因公殉職我想我們整個包括警政署內政部我們都要對他的後續的一些輔助工作要做到最完美給家屬一個最好的安慰重要的是造勢的這個行為人這種不法的行為我們應該要讓社會一個很清楚的交代"},{"start":24247.105,"end":24272.953,"text":"市長,警察條例35條,典型廢廢洋洋,我是提案,我是提案是,報告委員,這位造勢者是一個毒蟲,已經抓到了,然後第二個我們表達非常的痛心,然後第三個就是有關於警察因公殉職的部分,其實我們已經公告完成,會用這個最高的撫恤方式來進行他的殉職方面的撫恤作業"},{"start":24274.079,"end":24289.029,"text":"他們的退休能夠拉高一點警察平均壽命跟一般百姓差10歲部長你知不知道然後呢退休之後很快一年以來可能很多人出問題這個我們都有統計所以為什麼"},{"start":24292.819,"end":24320.76,"text":"日夜顛倒比我們醫護人員的值班還辛苦因為他是跳間斷式的所以每一個到50歲、58歲退休之後馬上就出問題所以這些警察是我們要呵護給他們尊嚴、給他們照顧、給他們當靠山比照軍人的退休又有什麼了不起嘛不然你看海外很多人我們平時把他們當成外星座、當作豆婆這樣弄一弄、弄一弄、拌薄下去"},{"start":24322.396,"end":24349.224,"text":"講不過去啦好不好部長我們一起來努力好 繼續你等一下再走接著是換你了 要換你的來我們高鐵到潮州這一個我這裡要跟院長 給你陳士凱肯定一下他剛上任沒有幾天就跑到六塊樹去了大家說他沒專業 但是我感覺他永遠認識"},{"start":24350.814,"end":24376.423,"text":"好像只有我在肯定他喔 部長 跟你簽訂謝謝委員 越多的委員越認識他啦講得很直接 非常好好 這個是高鐵的路 預定路線那我們那天決定就是六塊處的車站 優先施工嘛 對不對 部長是 院長你也知道這個事情吧就是說六鐵車這一台 因為它要到屏東1.4公里而已"},{"start":24379.363,"end":24402.723,"text":"那邊的那個海拔那天有跟部長報告齁才7公尺而已所以一定要加凍高提防還有那個地方是科學元氣已經在在廠商已經兩家動工了齁所以那個地方先做我們把案子擺戰場但是我們的目標是要到潮州齁那方案一方案二方案三"},{"start":24403.951,"end":24425.823,"text":"那天我也說,莊家斌委員也有問題他也是說,我們走高雄市這段可能會比較好,我沒有意見,但是倒著倒退路又曬出來,那有點違反原則,against principle那高雄這走,我剛才講的,高雄那一條路,我告訴你,高雄古池窟"},{"start":24430.996,"end":24437.478,"text":"這個選舉的公告若無成立﹖那架車頭高得這麼大﹖非常大﹖選舉的公告絕對沒問題﹖那個地方若國體沒經過﹖我會說國用手鼓一鼓敲起﹖"},{"start":24448.354,"end":24449.015,"text":"我強烈建議所以年底要訂案"},{"start":24465.462,"end":24488.998,"text":"還是建議那第二個我們的目標是要到炒作那部長也說那條軌道就把它通了出來準備隨時要接下去我對你是不是這樣講報告委員那個叫做留為軌就是留下未來延伸的可能性那目前延伸屏東的方案已經在綜合規劃當中那像委員剛剛所說的"},{"start":24489.458,"end":24505.008,"text":"有兩個方案目前我們正在思考也正在討論那最後目前是討論到六塊錯那我知道地方上還有一些大家的聲音希望再更長一點那我們就用留為軌的方式留為軌就會留下未來延伸的可能性"},{"start":24508.951,"end":24510.972,"text":"這個是比較嚴肅的問題肯定化這也到高層部跟我們內建部也關聯肯定化這幾個月"},{"start":24538.496,"end":24563.683,"text":"議長你聽過沒有這句話是難聽話這句話是鄙視跟看不起的話我們如果說柚和夜市肯定話就表示說他的東西不會很貴不會花每天都迷茫茫柚和夜市肯定話治理夜市肯定話這句話是難聽話"},{"start":24566.363,"end":24593.899,"text":"這咱坤町我們的恆春半島已經被無名化了所以我這裡要跟院長報告一下墾丁今天為什麼會死得那麼慘恆春半島為什麼會死得那麼慘三個原因第一個是交通的問題第二個是地價的問題第三是生意人心態墾丁國家公園實質我一個一個跟你報告"},{"start":24595.765,"end":24624.294,"text":"下一張這個在2018年 人家就在消遣的位2018年就這樣講我們地方政府也沒有什麼作為下一張我們 院長你如果去到夏威夷你剛才我去到海灘邊海邊開車那裡漂亮 你主人就慢慢開 慢慢心想"},{"start":24625.629,"end":24652.73,"text":"我們民眾,你看,來,下一張這人,在車上,背的都光碟板,不拿8公頃現在去高速車行動去不來這整座都不夠高速車,要慢慢開、慢慢行動所以我們施政院長去歐的市場、去中的市場,我看是不好的我在地人,可以這樣跟你說"},{"start":24655.56,"end":24663.783,"text":"下一張五張的問題你覺得這樣會卸上機有幾機?測數照相17機紅窗紅燈4機區間測數兩大組全部抓到鬆來來的一流181年、182年、183年"},{"start":24684.42,"end":24711.202,"text":"你不用跟我說墾丁有多少人去玩,我看這個數字我就知道早前交通罰單7千萬、8千萬,我們屏東縣政府可以分75%今年一月到八月就這樣了,這樣是什麼?沒有人去啦你如果去墾丁玩一趟回來,放2張、3張罰單是很普通的事情如果是你,你開車去玩一趟回來2、3張罰單,你還會再去嗎?"},{"start":24715.148,"end":24724.873,"text":"叫就叫死了所以坤町的目錄斷來式的下墜不是沒理由的所以大家要看要怎樣來救如果沒有我看是沒辦法的我們民東關我們台北新北市一年變交通違規的滑單400多萬人口變10億我們民東關79萬人口變5億而且收到6億多超收啦"},{"start":24744.744,"end":24750.609,"text":"請問一下這個是合理嗎所以觀光客不來我們地方政府要負點責任吧再來地價 這個跟我們內政部應該有關係"},{"start":24769.898,"end":24779.801,"text":"坤町大街 坤町大街 七十幾公里 六百公尺一坪土地 一百七十六萬 怕死啦 咱大池喔 大池 它一百三十幾萬 這裡一百七十六萬一間老廚 那間 都八千萬 七千萬 七條請問"},{"start":24797.489,"end":24798.57,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":24820.011,"end":24820.732,"text":"我們業者本身不自愛"},{"start":24846.957,"end":24873.031,"text":"把遊客當作一次性的肥羊,這樣就把它毒,上當會中所以國家公園管理署,劉部長這要怎麼解決?我們這個部分其實在8月以後已經有開始開發,然後也跟業者要求要自律同時我們現在跟屏東縣政府,包括地方的縣之公所還有民代的服務處一起來協調"},{"start":24874.113,"end":24903.545,"text":"看未來怎麼樣包括處理洋傘的部分還有那個機具還有車輛的部分然後盡量減少這個亂象不要讓景觀上面覺得看起來好像到這個地方去那麼漂亮的沙灘全部都在看洋傘那這個部分是一個非常糟糕的一個景象那因為多次有網紅來反映所以事實上我們到現在為止的已經開立了73張的勸導單那業者他們也願意按照我們所訂定的新的方式來重新來招租有關洋傘的租用的辦法"},{"start":24904.875,"end":24931.458,"text":"交通部門在判測限數一顆五十一顆六十一顆七十我看只有小的會這樣遵守而已所以料好不是說這樣每次後備你這樣就好事了沒有啦沒有這就事了院長地價的問題你還不能放任何地價一片公告地價五十幾萬公告限值九十萬"},{"start":24933.25,"end":24934.531,"text":"第1個國家公園 第1個"},{"start":24952.244,"end":24952.784,"text":"哇靠啦 去買的東西在炒的"},{"start":24973.109,"end":24980.094,"text":"鄭春彬的一棟房子一千二萬、一千三萬現在漲價了以前不到一千萬那一間房子、一棟房子要五千、六千、七千、八千萬這真是笑話嘛這沒有那種條件"},{"start":25001.65,"end":25015.524,"text":"那最後這裡還有五里亭機場 院長你覺得聽過以前興春的五里亭機場一天一禮拜還有三十多磅飛機 現在一磅就沒有所以這你要考慮 考慮看要怎麼恢復這為松山飛到五里亭機場 下一張"},{"start":25031.79,"end":25048.762,"text":"這個再來是我們屏南快速道路你已經 院長你也有替他宣誓還要開始路廊也決定我建議在高架高速路的下面做單車單車道這68公里來來走他能站到對 笑到對 吃到對這樣也可以振興那是另外一個族群"},{"start":25057.199,"end":25082.899,"text":"那這個是一個好的事情,院長可不可以唸一下,這個下面用單車,這個有很多地方在做,部長可以嗎?我來研究好,那兩位請回,我們請邱部長,衛福部衛福部,邱部長這年算三千年了,院長辛苦了"},{"start":25084.997,"end":25110.597,"text":"今天早上有聽到幾位委員在質詢講了很多我們健保的事情那我跟邱部長有很多對話那我跟他講一回休啦我對著和尚念經是沒有用的因為他比我還會念所以我今天要對你對院長你我們的醫療有沒有機會有沒有希望我叫我看你"},{"start":25113.018,"end":25125.149,"text":"我剛說過去30年健保保障國人現在我們要回頭保障健保所以一定要有救而且一定要救得起來那目前我覺得體質還是在我們大家能夠接受的範圍內院長我告訴你我們第1屆主決議那一張有嗎?院主決議說"},{"start":25136.186,"end":25137.427,"text":"現在現在目前的電池存多少?"},{"start":25165.455,"end":25192.448,"text":"零點八二零點八二要站到我出的橋啦我要向院長報告就像你的基金裡面顧兩百個給我來報現在健保署怎麼操作你知道嗎他就說 譬如說三招第一招就是斷頭我要給你一億結果你做一億二那你的兩千萬就自己斷頭"},{"start":25194.351,"end":25216.624,"text":"斷頭之後他就給你抽案子來嚴審審完之後還不夠呢答不到邱太陽說的要0.95呢阿伯又再叫你共同分攤扣除叫做攤扣跟營港的攤扣不一樣這樣又叫你扣攤扣有7億、有8億、有10億把他拉到電子0.92、0.93很好看的如果要用這樣來抬"},{"start":25224.196,"end":25243.144,"text":"1.0也沒問題1.1塊錢也沒問題所以現在都假象所以再來就造成什麼造成智慧的醫療院所巧立名目然後智慧的越來越高我敢講醫療院所巧立名目這是很大的挑戰喔但是不這樣他活不了"},{"start":25244.397,"end":25273.16,"text":"那與其要這樣不如事實寫出來健保署很聰明你要什麼他就給你什麼你要0.95他就可以殺到0.95嚴審斷頭這動同攤口所以今年已經不行了健保基金裡面拿一些出來補今年現在的點子不然的話到年底都出問題了部長是不是這樣"},{"start":25276.525,"end":25285.169,"text":"因為電池當然是有比較多政府其實都很想辦法來改善這個環境應該有的權益所以尤其現在的行政院無論是今年還是未來都盡量用盡了"},{"start":25300.598,"end":25301.358,"text":"好,謝謝蘇委員謝謝卓院長"},{"start":25328.038,"end":25351.798,"text":"下一位我們請林淑芬委員質詢副院長各位大家午安是不是請我們卓院長卓院長請備請"},{"start":25363.7,"end":25387.057,"text":"林委員好院長最近醫療糾紛的案子大概都沒有辦法進行因為刑事訴訟法在去年年底修正了第208條就是說法院或檢察官得主託醫院等機關團體鑑定或審查他人的鑑定而且要具名"},{"start":25387.978,"end":25403.012,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":25403.172,"end":25422.337,"text":"因為醫審會有編列預算所以免費雖然其實訴訟法第208條說你還可以委託其他的機關醫院等等可以去鑑定但是大家都還是委託醫審會居多那現在最嚴重的事情發生了因為呢這個"},{"start":25424.537,"end":25440.425,"text":"一省會把來自於檢察機關或司法機關的這些醫療糾紛事故的鑑定大概有300件你知道嗎已經退回這個地檢署有50件代退的有250件"},{"start":25442.466,"end":25456.657,"text":"我們要講這個是說在這種過程從去年年底修法到現在從實施到現在將近半年了有300件的案件進度是停滯的沒有辦法繼續審理的"},{"start":25458.078,"end":25463.745,"text":"而且受到一審會的案件是被退回的沒有退的也即將要被退那整個這個訴訟醫療糾紛的原告或被告整個訴訟的審理程序簡直是無法進行這個對"},{"start":25474.617,"end":25491.375,"text":"所有的這一些相關的權益影響甚大那這個事情滋事體大不曉得是該怎麼解決而你們今天在這個衛福部衛福部的醫事司有講說他們要把案件全部還給地檢署"},{"start":25492.916,"end":25515.045,"text":"那第1檢署請自行去尋找願意合作的醫學中心﹚醫師或專科醫學會自己去鑑定我們知道送到醫生會免費﹚送到這個醫院或者是醫學中心去鑑定是要錢的但是重點也不是在錢的問題而已是現在要具名﹚要具名"},{"start":25515.845,"end":25538.638,"text":"那衛福部的概念是說要請行政院跟司法機關去溝通轉達醫審會他有為難之處希望規定鑑定人員必須具名這個可以秉除醫師讓醫師安心可是呢我們去看了一下這個整個修法的過程"},{"start":25539.739,"end":25564.866,"text":"修法的過程裡面當初司法院跟我們的法務部提出這個《刑事訴訟法》第208條的修正其實所指的理由是說即便是機關鑑定也是機關內部的自然人實施鑑定或審查以後再用機關的名義出具書面報告"},{"start":25565.746,"end":25593.093,"text":"所以機關實施鑑定之自然人應該要準用相關規定除了書面報告以外當然要具名以事負責並立作為判斷其是否具備鑑定事格的依據及擔保鑑定或審查程序的專業性及公正性所以意思是說機關實施鑑定仍然由自然人為之"},{"start":25595.074,"end":25615.39,"text":"那大家都講說 這個醫生怕訴訟啊 怕跑法院啊醫生還要上法院 這樣子一語帶過我是覺得啊 欸 司法機關講的有道理可是醫師 大家就一概的以醫師怕上法院為由來說這個衛福部醫生會來這裡的人沒擔當"},{"start":25618.092,"end":25627.873,"text":"事實上也不是啊你去叫教學中心去叫便衣來鑑定看要不要鑑定我相信很多為難之處但有一點我就覺得"},{"start":25629.558,"end":25651.489,"text":"聽起來合理但人性上不見得可行我現在比較想問大家就是說到底具名的才容易造假還是不具名的才比較容易造假院長部長你們覺得呢?鑑定報告是要具名起來比較不會造假還是具名起來比較會造假"},{"start":25653.498,"end":25681.379,"text":"當時是一個修法的過程 鑑定是司法院是希望是以具名的方式負責 但是因為我也知道這個因為對我們以送件違件的一個單位來講有沒有具名其實跟整個鑑定的一個結果跟效力是沒有影響的但是最大的一個困難就是如果說這個鑑定的結果有結問的必要的時候要到法庭去接受交互結問"},{"start":25682.219,"end":25705.949,"text":"那我想這個會造成 鑑定的單位的一個心理上的負擔部長 剛剛我已經講了 你們修法的時候講的是事實上 巨民啊 要擔保他的事格 而且要擔保他的專業和公正事實上這一點也是問題喔 並不是你講說 如果有糾紛要上法院而已我現在要講這個是因為 站在衛福部的立場 衛福部"},{"start":25707.009,"end":25731.08,"text":"部長你也講一下,為什麼議審會的人會拒絕審這個依舊的案件為什麼三百件你看相關的權益這半年來這三百件、三百個當事人他的權益都沒有任何保障整個訴訟卡在那裡然後都沒有人出來解決,一定沒有人出來解決"},{"start":25732.4,"end":25753.281,"text":"衛福部退回去﹚然後法務部沒有辦法審理﹚司法機關也看說你自己沒辦法起訴﹚沒辦法審理﹚跟他沒關係整個修法造成了整個當事人權益這麼的不保怎麼大家都沒有人願意主動出來解決問題"},{"start":25755.014,"end":25782.054,"text":"我覺得百思不得其解 啊當事人都放在那 放在那現在就要立委來質詢 看你要不要去解決 是這樣嗎部長 衛福部部長 有什麼困難 講一下是的 報告委員本部已經因為這樣的原因 所以已經邀請司法院召開說明會也轉資司法院問答集 給那個醫審會的委員 專家及鑑定醫師"},{"start":25782.964,"end":25800.733,"text":"但是大部分的委員：專家及鑑定醫師表示：不願意再參與醫事鑑定所以沒有人要來鑑定理由是什麼：他們擔心的是什麼為什麼修了一個法結果造成沒有任何醫事人員：專業的人員願意來接受這個鑑定的這個任務呢那本部在7月幾天這樣可以停擺嗎當事人權益怎麼辦"},{"start":25812.964,"end":25833.712,"text":"我們本來想要修訂這個醫療法的施行細則那個增訂這個醫療鑒定相關資料應以保密不以公開的規定但是那個請教專家以後表示說這個病你所說的跟司法機關跟法務部他們認為的剛好是背道而馳的"},{"start":25834.412,"end":25852.323,"text":"要具名才能具備這個才能夠這個我剛剛念過的齁讓他的鑑定的事格有依據他的專業性和公正性而且保證不造假我剛才跟你問的是要具名才能造假還是不具名才能造假"},{"start":25853.55,"end":25854.09,"text":"這個問題是鑑定之後具名"},{"start":25882.971,"end":25904.087,"text":"會怕產生之後 產生一些一一式糾紛之後的機械糾紛所以設定這樣子那照委員剛剛所說的這樣的這個可信度是不是會被接受會不會那他的效率問題那雖然我們有提議說建議啦說這個建定不需要具名跟具節那麼這個規定"},{"start":25906.178,"end":25930.171,"text":"現在法律就明文規定要具名啦當初修法為什麼院和院之間沒有能夠好好的溝通這樣子硬修下去可行性執行上有沒有困難整個行政部門跟司法部門為什麼大家都沒有溝通然後就一意孤行就通過然後現在造成所有當事人權益受損呢"},{"start":25930.851,"end":25957.21,"text":"而當事人權益受損了以後呢 院跟院之間 到現在 到目前都沒有任何溝通各位委員幫我們今天看到這樣的狀況 因為刑事訴訟法的主要的這個推修法的機關是司法院 那我們會透過院跟院之間或是刑法當初就沒有了 雖然是刑事訴訟法主管機關是司法院 但是我們今天在講"},{"start":25958.391,"end":25974.528,"text":"對這跟你們有關 跟行政部門有關的一審會依須鑑定所有的責任怎麼會跟你們行政部門沒有關係 都有關係而一審會的重點來了 你們去看一審會的設置要點不要忘了一審會是"},{"start":25976.07,"end":25998.169,"text":"可以召集一式鑑定小組得一鑑定案件性質分組召開會議所以看起來從這個設置要點來看一式鑑定小組是要一個小組的而且到時候的決議是要共識決的需要小組委員過半數的出席"},{"start":25999.369,"end":26024.298,"text":"決議事項需有出席委員﹚過半數的同意﹚可否同訴時﹚由主席裁決﹚所以一個共識決﹚不是一個人的﹚在這裡共識決﹚你叫一個醫生去具名﹚到底要叫出審的﹚出判的﹚還是要叫主席去具名﹚誰要擔負這個責任﹚不清不楚"},{"start":26026.912,"end":26030.384,"text":"制度面有沒有問題 有阿執行面有沒有問題 有阿"},{"start":26033.646,"end":26058.767,"text":"可是現在就擺爛在那裡的你說這全部都司法院可是沒有我們看這個新聞高檢署有表示高檢署說因應刑事訴訟鑑定相關規定修正正收集實務運作問題因應必要時將協調相關機關解決所以高檢署有這個理念嗎 有啊這已經擺爛了半年了"},{"start":26059.888,"end":26065.71,"text":"當事人的權益 你看我來一個醫療糾紛 今天因為沒辦法感應沒人要出來感應 沒機關去感應臨醫審會 公務部門 行政部門的公立的醫審會的這個機制都停擺還退件了 退件了300件 50件被退回去250件即將要被退回去"},{"start":26088.625,"end":26108.986,"text":"這個真的這樣擺爛下去是不行的啦跟委員報告,我想我們不會給他擺爛,我們是希望我們再來協調議審會已經再來做,因為這是執行面的問題法律都這樣子規定了,議審會是共識決,要叫到一個移民我想我們再來做一個協調"},{"start":26110.367,"end":26138.849,"text":"這本的問題重重欸這個行事訴訟法新的方式 制度實施之後衛部在7月是有訂定一個施行細則啦那這細則之內他們是希望說這個資料因為保密不予公開這個鑑定的資料但是在內部討論的時候我們的其他的政委還是有一些討論的不同的想法那我覺得我們可以現在再來內部的討論一下如果有需要再跟司法院做溝通但是院長"},{"start":26140.41,"end":26146.035,"text":"現在他們的做法直接退回去 退回去地檢署 退回去地檢署可是法律已經修成這樣子了 這麼剛性的法律 你能夠自行去彈性調整嗎"},{"start":26165.133,"end":26170.506,"text":"衛福部部長你來講講看如果法律沒有修正最可能最可行的方式怎麼解決"},{"start":26173.604,"end":26174.984,"text":"法務部部長你告訴我最可行的方式是什麼"},{"start":26196.292,"end":26212.398,"text":"當然法律的話我們要依法來行政當然我們希望說我們個案委託那個醫事鑑定委會來鑑定我們希望來做一個鑑定那既然是醫事鑑定委員會的委員認為這部分有自愛難行的部分我們再來瞭解"},{"start":26213.378,"end":26214.699,"text":"為什麼其他人也沒有在鑑定?為什麼?"},{"start":26236.82,"end":26237.08,"text":"會不會有一個進展的可能"},{"start":26249.321,"end":26250.061,"text":"謝謝林委員謝謝卓院長"},{"start":26279.008,"end":26282.958,"text":"我們報告院會休息10分鐘 休息之後繼續進行質詢 現在休息"},{"start":26957.072,"end":26976.003,"text":"發言委員現在繼續開會請廖偉祥委員質詢主席有請卓榮泰院長及國防部顧立雄部長請卓院長備詢還有顧部長備詢廖委員好"},{"start":26987.1,"end":27005.815,"text":"院長部長好今天我準備兩個禮物要請我們顧立雄部長收下第一個我們台灣是藍花大國那最近南部的鄉親種出了新品種的藍花非常的美叫做賴清德蘭但由於剛出品我還買不到所以我就先買了一盆藍花代替"},{"start":27006.442,"end":27006.482,"text":"在哪裡來"},{"start":27039.957,"end":27039.977,"text":"會議結束"},{"start":27086.415,"end":27113.068,"text":"院長部長我想要請問一下川普有說臺灣的國防預算應該要佔GDP的10%請教一下院長萬一我們的川普當選了你們會配合他嗎我們的國防預算是依照我們國家的需要就保衛國家安全那麼我們會來就這個需要的方面來編列我們相關的預算絕不是要"},{"start":27113.632,"end":27139.365,"text":"一副或者是去滿足哪一個數字這個對我們來講毫無意義那萬一他當選要求台灣要做到我們會有辦法嗎還是會說我們做不到台灣身為世界民主夥伴國家友好的朋友之一我們當然有責任要防衛自己的安全台海來自於印太的安全那我們會負起這個責任但這個是在我們從我們本位做出發的基本的國防要求好 那院長我們是不是就不會聽他的"},{"start":27143.376,"end":27164.66,"text":"我會因為他講一句話就要做這件事我們聽我們的以及聽我們的三軍統帥跟國防部的規劃三軍統帥好我們明年國防預算已經上看6740億已經佔GDP的2.45%所以現在川普的說法要求我們到10%的話等於是國防預算要達到兩兆7所以我在這裡還有包含剛剛送這些東西就是也要呼籲我們賴清德總統"},{"start":27167.501,"end":27186.842,"text":"大國以仁小國以治希望我們的賴總統我們的三軍統帥可以有智慧的帶領我們中華民國和平穩定的發展千萬不要變成輕德斯基委員放心這個不僅是國策也是總統率領國家的重要方向好謝謝我們的顧部長可以回座了"},{"start":27188.817,"end":27210.695,"text":"主委院長賴清德總統上任前宣誓要做100萬戶的社會住宅其中50萬戶是租金補貼25萬戶是社會住宅25萬戶是包租代管的三大方向先談租金補貼的部分我想請教院長目前內政部使用了不涉及、不追稅、不查稅的方式現在總共核准了將近66萬戶"},{"start":27212.436,"end":27227.503,"text":"今年補助補貼的金額也超過了265億所以我是想要問一下院長你們現在這樣子的是不是代表你們要跟國人報告你們百萬戶的社會住宅政策賴清德上任半年就已經達成了66萬戶對嗎"},{"start":27230.043,"end":27232.764,"text":"所以意思就是說賴慶哲上任半年已經達成超過50萬戶的社會住宅是這樣的意思嘛對不對"},{"start":27245.1,"end":27264.416,"text":"在百萬戶這個家庭輔助計畫裡面的三支鍵 第三支鍵確實是已經達到所以意思就是說你們已經達標 而且還超標了 66萬戶 不過我想要請先看看我們院長 看看國土署當初發布的新聞稿 300億的這個中央擴大租金補貼專案 你們國土署的新聞稿怎麼寫的"},{"start":27265.418,"end":27278.497,"text":"當初這個300億的中央擴大補貼的方案就是說希望掌握市場上大量有效的租約資訊將透過定期統計公開達成租屋市場透明化那我想請問你們目前有掌握租屋黑市的狀況嗎"},{"start":27279.817,"end":27302.655,"text":"報告委員我想這個部分大概也是相對很多委員希望知道的不管是租金補貼或是包租貸款所以是沒有對不對有我們有我們透過我們的地政資料現在慢慢的把就是去識別化的狀態之下都把它那個按照所以現在是沒有嗎因為我我發文問過你們你們回我說沒有按照地區有公布出來相關的這個租金補貼的這個狀況但是它是一個區塊的方式而不是一個一個"},{"start":27303.416,"end":27303.556,"text":"租賃查詢實價登錄10.5萬戶"},{"start":27319.139,"end":27343.961,"text":"那您補助的戶數跟剛剛就是說66萬戶相差了將近55萬戶這就是我們現在台灣租屋黑市的現況請問院長你對於這樣成績滿意嗎委員你的說法的基準不太一樣我剛剛跟您報告了就是說現在呢領取租金補貼的總共有60幾萬戶這些部分在我們地政司裡面都有相關的資料但是我們把它去識別化以後按照地區呢已經把它公布而且放在我們官網上面"},{"start":27344.824,"end":27366.608,"text":"你是說像這個中央剛剛我說的我們放在我們內政部的官網裡面那為什麼我去聞的時候你跟我說沒有不是你們的業務要不要看一下我們的那個公文租屋黑樹研究及統計非本屬業管統計全責無資料提供你剛剛還說有下面這就是你們回我的公文阿"},{"start":27368.562,"end":27388.038,"text":"您現在講的這個租屋的這個黑數的部分是大概就是說第一個他不是找這個官方的包租代管或是經過我們土地租金跟那個官方申請的部分沒關係所以你說你66萬戶都有掌握是這樣嗎?是的因為他們有申請租金補貼的話我們就知道他到底是誰你都知道每個位置在哪裡然後這個屋主是誰那為什麼沒有實價登錄上去?"},{"start":27390.926,"end":27400.916,"text":"實價登錄沒有我剛跟委員報告的部分他是一個區塊的方式區塊的方式那我給你看實價登錄只有在我們買賣的這個房產的房地產上面才會有租屋的實價登錄"},{"start":27403.14,"end":27431.781,"text":"我剛有說內政部有租屋的租金的部分好現在我跟你說你剛說區塊的部分我給你看現在內政部公開透明的方式就是一個區一個中位數院長請你看一個區一個中位數也沒有不知道有沒有電梯不知道房屋種類不知道屋齡連幾坪都不知道只有把25分位50分位75分位公布出來光看這資料我可不可以說臺北市的房租比新北市還要便宜這樣合理嗎所以我要講的事情就是"},{"start":27432.898,"end":27455.122,"text":"你再變也沒用連立法院的預算中心都已經明確指出我國多數的租屋案件未納入實價登錄對眾多租屋人口權益保障朋友欠完備推動租屋市場價格透明化容待精進我想容待精進這四個字這幾個字都講得很客氣了所以院長這樣擴大租金補貼的專案從2022年到2025年預估多少"},{"start":27460.135,"end":27482.5,"text":"剛剛這個部長在跟委員報告的過程就是說112年有效租約的案件大概75%我們都有掌握他的資訊那麼在這個租金透明化的過程當中是集中在大學周邊以及每個行政區我們做這樣的先大規模大街廓的大區域的這樣的公布請問2022到2025預估要補貼發出多少錢"},{"start":27486.014,"end":27491.762,"text":"按照我們現在在114年要求這個行政院補助的部分的話大概是有200億左右"},{"start":27493.307,"end":27513.923,"text":"為什麼這邊的數字大概是200億應該是今年吧對不對我現在說的是114年的部分對所以我說2022到2025預估總共要多少2022開始到現在為止這個比較少一點大概也是大概也是大概804億沒有那是加總的部分對就是加總我剛剛就是說加總對我就是說加總我說2022到2025"},{"start":27519.688,"end":27523.201,"text":"國家駐都中心興建4年的社宅加總工程費用多少?"},{"start":27524.865,"end":27548.46,"text":"大概872億我們可以看到租金補貼的政策的經費將近已經逼近我們新建社宅的經費況且全世界也沒有人會把租金補貼當成社宅的認定報告委員租金補貼的部分在住宅法裡面確實有名列進去所以我們認為租金補貼也算是住宅法規執行的一部分我剛剛已經說50萬戶也算進去我只是把這個全世界沒有人這樣講的把它補進去而已"},{"start":27551.002,"end":27566.43,"text":"所以連省紀部111年的決算報告都曾經指出問題直接寫租賃市場產生租屋黑市或地下化的問題所以導致中央地方機關雖然積極推動租金補貼等協助措施卻無法確實發揮效益"},{"start":27568.271,"end":27593.106,"text":"也就是說現在黑市不解決補助就沒有辦法實質發揮效益甚至還發生易領的狀況有發生易領一億多那請問賴清德居住正義補貼50萬戶是為了湊數字還是要促進租屋市場透明院長我要講的是新清安政策也是狂撒幣但是撒下去之後就出問題了院長我也很擔憂你的租金補貼政策會不會跟新清安一樣"},{"start":27594.076,"end":27602.351,"text":"為了要達到居住正義的目的但是反而手段不正義欠缺通盤規劃導致我們國家的住宅政策一團混亂"},{"start":27603.732,"end":27630.74,"text":"我這個是百萬出家庭支持計畫方案的一部分當然我們設定他是50萬戶那現在因為市場反映大家需求現在到60幾萬戶這三個方向我都很清楚我繼續問未來我們也希望他不要在毫無限制的一直往上增加我們重點還是要放在直接興建跟包租貸款謝謝你要直接興建跟包租貸款好我們現在講興建設宅的部分請教院長賴清德總統說要蓋25萬戶設宅"},{"start":27632.981,"end":27662.086,"text":"那目前由中央興建完工並且已經可以招租的才總共4767戶喔3萬多戶欸這是完工已經可以供招租的喔這是你們網路上的數字喔沒有3萬多戶現在你說3萬多戶可以出租了是不是已經出出去了嗎已經有的像林口的話幾乎都是滿租的狀況欸你3萬多是包括地方政府喔我現在講的是中央政府興建且完工的喔你要講清楚喔你要看一下數字嗎是好你們興建且完工的"},{"start":27662.998,"end":27686.067,"text":"而且可以招租的扣掉林口選手村的話其實也才1800多戶那你現在說的其他的中央有在興建中的沒錯可是我講是完工的並且已經可以供招租的蔡英文8年加上賴清德半年總共不到2000戶的成績我想人民要怎麼相信你8年內能蓋完25萬戶所以我想問一下現在住都中心接下來要蓋多少戶"},{"start":27687.217,"end":27709.247,"text":"報告委員我們希望說中央跟地方一起努力然後到2032年之前可以完成25萬戶所以你的25萬戶不是只有中央興建是包含要把地方的都納進來了因為我們當時在協調地方的時候我們中央的國土署也有協助那我也想問你我也查了你們的資料截至今年5月你們盤點的總計219處的土地那總共只有7萬1千多戶你們盤點的土地只有7萬多戶剩下18萬戶要蓋在哪"},{"start":27714.707,"end":27736.13,"text":"是要填海造海造陸嗎還是你現在夠了嗎盤地方的你這些土地有夠嗎是跟委員報告我們現在當然是在盤點土地當中而且希望能夠有多元的管道而且我們希望說透過每個縣市地方政府的都市計畫在未來做區段徵收的時候會釋放出3%到5%的土地供我們興建住宅社會住宅"},{"start":27736.57,"end":27759.303,"text":"好我在這裡要提醒你如果沒有規劃的話我想你們的社會住宅的政策也會跟你們的租金補貼政策一樣目前為止我們在中央的興建速度是還算可以但是地方已經都沒有那麼快了沒問題部長這個院長你的部長非常有信心所以我這裡也準備了一個承諾支票我想你願不願意簽下這張承諾支票宣誓賴清德總統一定會達到這個25萬戶的決心"},{"start":27761.394,"end":27762.677,"text":"我這裡寫了25萬戶就是依照你們的50萬、25萬、25萬"},{"start":27769.793,"end":27796.335,"text":"可以嗎?你們可以簽嗎?院長我們在113年底希望能夠達到20萬戶 那就現在為止這個 院長你願不願意簽這個承諾的資料 通過宿宅以及社宅有18萬戶我覺得政府的政策是用在我們的施政報告跟預算書上面來呈現的而不是用一種簽名的方式 是在過去到現在都是這樣在進行所以換言之就是 院長你沒辦法保證你可以 你會達標你可能會跳票的意思"},{"start":27797.045,"end":27808.497,"text":"那張是那個簽名對我們政策的推動沒有任何的特別意義原來我們的院長完全不敢為賴清德的承諾背書啊所謂一百萬戶的社宅海上海然後二十萬戶都被蓋成你這樣的時間的說法我覺得這樣會變口號之國"},{"start":27814.303,"end":27838.665,"text":"對總統的政見在全力的推動這是我們對政策的負責好 院長我在這裡就是要代表關心居住正義的年輕人想要問你願不願意簽這個承諾所以你現在是不願意簽 對不對我們在政策上已經講得很清楚我們往這個方向一直在努力好 所以你就是不願意簽 沒問題我想這真的令人非常的遺憾你們民進黨的政府在居住正義上面負了年輕人"},{"start":27839.693,"end":27851.102,"text":"委員如果你真的關心租金補貼的部分的話其實我們過去兩年租金補貼在青年上面滿意度是70%以上我沒有說你租金補貼怎麼樣我是說你的政策目標沒有達成"},{"start":27852.062,"end":27867.977,"text":"租金補貼拿到錢大家當然都很快樂阿但是你的黑市問題沒解決阿所以你一直在努力進行當中院長最後我聊聊居住正義三件喔你們剛剛的三件我都清楚所以你一直在這邊兜數字你根本是在瞎扯淡我明明就說50萬戶你們租住補貼到了66萬戶可是你的黑市問題沒有解決"},{"start":27874.502,"end":27896.655,"text":"您現在講的是一般上面的租屋市場不是我們現在在租金補貼上的補貼對象是政府有責任要給人民可負擔的有保障的多元的居住選擇權利那現在我們居住正義剛剛講的三階段設宅蓋的速度不夠所以現在設宅有限租屋市場不透明也有可能租金也隨著這樣子上漲"},{"start":27897.495,"end":27913.429,"text":"那房價門檻更高到讓年輕人難以跨越那麼可以看一下我們這個現在的居住正義是這樣看一下我們的簡報設宅租屋到購屋已經完全的失衡了那我想要請問一下有沒有第4種可能性"},{"start":27914.791,"end":27936.587,"text":"政府目前有沒有在這個土地的盤點除了新建設宅之外有沒有另外一種去思考一種中間型的住宅方案另外半永久式的或是類似這樣青年可負擔宅的規劃類似像新加坡的主屋的模式同時具備長期居住然後封閉市場封閉市場的條件可負擔的條件請問我們有沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":27937.647,"end":27955.434,"text":"報告委員其實各種的規劃包括你所說的這個不管是英國的或者是新加坡的我們都有在考慮當中但是在台灣一般人是安土中堅的狀況之下他們當然希望社會住宅住得越久越好變成他們永久的租屋市場不像現在是6年那所以我們也在考慮說除了年輕人以外"},{"start":27955.894,"end":27958.675,"text":"我想要表達的是我支持這樣的方向那我也希望我剛剛說的多元的可負擔的好不好"},{"start":27977.203,"end":27980.329,"text":"多元可負擔的﹑可以保障的﹑請往這邊方向推動"},{"start":27988.68,"end":28009.975,"text":"所以我還是要講居住正義不是大撒幣的臭數字而已要促進市場透明要完善整體的機制留下一個具體可以長期運作的制度給我們下一代這是我認為的居住正義希望我們未來4年未來的任期可以好好的推動把這個居住正義留給我們的下一代讓他們可以住得起房好不好再來"},{"start":28011.772,"end":28038.75,"text":"院長最近有很多民眾喔收到電價調漲的電費單不僅一般住戶抱怨甚至南台灣有串燒店因為抱怨店裡的電費破紀錄創新高真是謝了綠色是最噁心的顏色然後這個電價就被出征了請問院長電價高漲是事實但是現在連老百姓抱怨都被出征你不覺得很恐怖嗎院長我是覺得啊年年漲電價是一件非常恐怖的事情喔"},{"start":28039.583,"end":28064.551,"text":"老百姓跟店家的抱怨其實都不是沒有道理你可以知道我們的民生用電已經連續3年調漲已經累計漲了30.4%工業用電已經連續3次調漲再加上昨天第4波已經來到了66.27%所以你的官邸有公務預算可以出但是國內的這些產業用電可是要列為成本"},{"start":28065.615,"end":28091.18,"text":"那三年漲了66.27%請問有多少產業扛得住啊 院長我們這次對電價的討論電價審議委員會在討論過程當中我知道他們把握原則叫反映成本我們必須讓台電的成本適度反映出來所以這個是接近成本的一個計算現在民生電價連三漲百姓苦哈哈工業電價連四漲產業慘兮兮"},{"start":28094.921,"end":28112.237,"text":"但是這3年在漲電價的同時我們經濟部也在全年已經增資台電1500億去年易後特別條例預算又撥補了500億6月的時候經濟部呢又增資台電1000億已經補貼3000億了現在又希望立法院通過"},{"start":28114.279,"end":28125.666,"text":"這個2000億的補貼預算總共加起來是5000億這5000億台電左手跟人民漲電價右手拿人民的納給政府的稅金5000億的補貼全部都是老百姓的錢"},{"start":28126.516,"end":28155.262,"text":"那現在你們嘴巴上說尊重立法院的決定但是一邊漲電價一邊又要立法院通過這些預算補貼台電我想這看起來在老百姓的眼裡這不只是情緒勒索應該是真的在勒索那當然經濟部昨天有說這次調漲電價有兩個原則您剛剛有說到的一個是照顧民生穩定電價穩定物價另外一個是兼顧產業競爭力但是有學者就說這是大家經濟部在自己騙自己"},{"start":28156.175,"end":28184.564,"text":"因為這次的調漲生產成本會再度上升很難消弭民眾聽好囉民眾對於物價上漲的預期心理再者所謂兼顧這個產業競爭力連33會的這個林柏峰會長也就是說這次漲價會導致企業獲利減少大概5%廠商可能會外移或關廠進而影響勞動市場接下來無薪假裁員的情況會更多院長你能保證明年不再漲電價嗎我想問這個"},{"start":28187.748,"end":28211.258,"text":"今年我們是看到因為戰爭之後原物料的上漲所以我們在取得的成本上面經過核實的計算讓工業用戶比較大戶的這個用電戶能夠在反映成本跟使用者付費的原則底下這個電價審議委員會通過這樣的原則對現在能源政策就是成本太高嘛對不對好可是你願不願意承諾明年不會漲電價院長"},{"start":28213.684,"end":28235.594,"text":"報告委員我們這次漲的電價請回答我可不可以保證沒關係請回答我可不可以保證你們剛剛講的這些我昨天都有看我知道請問明年可以保證部長電價嗎所以你講說會造成什麼樣的經濟波動我們認為這個是都計算過的院長健保費都可以保障明年部長我們電費可以保障嗎不敢講"},{"start":28237.25,"end":28254.458,"text":"我也不能保證明年軍工價會不會調漲因為這要橫估很多的社會經濟條件我們必須在這個平衡底下才能來做一個決定不是現在還預估明年漲不漲所以沒關係就是不能夠保證嘛 對不對所以我們才可以進一步來討論這個保證太廉價也沒有意義啊"},{"start":28255.055,"end":28278.108,"text":"所以我們進一步來討論賴總統推動的五大信賴產業大概全數都是少數高毛利的電子產業或許還可以稱可是大部分的傳產包括在地方上已經有很多的中小企業工具機產業、旅宿業者甚至媒體也都報導電價在漲下去年底可能會倒一片恐怕會有一片停業潮這些業主還自嘲自己就是不受信賴產業"},{"start":28279.469,"end":28291.321,"text":"這就是這段時間人民的心聲我幫大家反映出來然後呢現在工廠公司停業人民失業然後老百姓抱怨一下就要被出征這樣子合理嗎"},{"start":28292.543,"end":28319.245,"text":"所以你剛剛有說要穩定民生所以民生電價不漲我認同那工業電價漲12.5%到現在漲了累積漲了66.27然後你昨天說剛剛我們部長有說衝擊到0.03%對不對所以我剛剛有說這是你們算出來那你有沒有算到這個我剛剛已經講過的經濟學裡面有人學者就提出民眾會有漲價的預期心理那這部分要怎麼處理這是第一件事"},{"start":28320.247,"end":28333.948,"text":"況且更多的官方數據統計都是低估的更何況0.03你目前是指今年那請問到明年呢明年你可以感受到明年這個時間不會超過0.03嗎對不對還是我們就到明年來看看到底是不是0.03"},{"start":28336.517,"end":28356.12,"text":"報告委員 我想我們這一次 你剛才在指導的說這個小企業或者是中型的企業 比較艱苦的這個企業我們會有兩個方式來幫助他們一個就是推動我們的AI 另外一個就是推動低碳化那麼也就是說我們會做深度的節能"},{"start":28356.641,"end":28368.379,"text":"我們深度的節能大概可以幫助他降低7%的用電我想用這個方法來提升他們的競爭力才會有辦法讓他們走向競爭的環境如果說光是電價來補助他"},{"start":28373.555,"end":28397.234,"text":"對我們來講那這個部分可不可以請你會後提供報告給我因為的確我認同這個方向我沒有不認同我覺得這個方向是對的但是我還是在跟你討論電價的問題和能源政策的問題因為目前為止因為你這個東西你剛剛講的那些東西是需要時間累積的好所以現在簡單來講短時間內漲這些東西會導致一些企業出走或是倒閉好那我你們有估算過嗎"},{"start":28399.124,"end":28406.966,"text":"我給你們看一個數據這是投審會的數據官方資料我國對外投資從99億美金大增到235.7億美金漲幅達2.38倍那外國人願意來台投資的從133億美金掉到112億一來一回大概就是淨流出123.7億美金"},{"start":28423.646,"end":28439.409,"text":"那這些數據就是活生生的代表現在就是的確很多的產業在往海外去設廠因為他擔心台灣任何的不穩定所以逼著他出去那基本上他們現在的狀況就只能面臨兩條路一要嘛我收掉賣掉"},{"start":28440.49,"end":28440.79,"text":"掌電價的調整"},{"start":28462.756,"end":28465.578,"text":"對於臺電的營運財務的健全有幫忙長電價同時我們也會透過經濟部的這個節約用電的團隊去幫各個大戶"},{"start":28475.913,"end":28476.213,"text":"我們就是發展綠能"},{"start":28503.663,"end":28529.649,"text":"而且能夠多方面的引進新的能源的總概念用天然氣來做橋接對行政院合併的能源發展綱領是2017年4月版也就是說這個綱領有8年沒有修正你覺得這樣合理嗎像日本我記得是3年就檢討一次另外對阿這個沒有更新阿院長你怎麼說還是你覺得8年前到現在都適用8年前沒有發生惡霧戰爭喔"},{"start":28530.816,"end":28542.448,"text":"我們現在很多的世界大廠來台灣設廠都指定要用綠電那我們如果沒有發展這個綠電的話我們跟世界接不上門我們現在發展的方向是對的我們過去的發展方向是對的"},{"start":28553.88,"end":28576.813,"text":"但因應這個情勢要隨時激動作討論我想我們都會進行那院長我在問經濟部已經編列了60億的核酸除疫費用所以代表明年你們就確定完全排除核能這個選項嗎是嗎核能的部分我們是這樣的就是說先先把這個預算編列因為站到目前的這個法令他還是要"},{"start":28577.711,"end":28599.92,"text":"要下載所以你還是模糊不清當渣男講不清楚到底要還是不要因為委員你這句話有修正的必要我們不是渣男我是說在能源政策上面要不要不講清楚就說我先編了然後到時候再看狀況因為這個是法令的規定我們一定要編如果法令可以解掉我們就不編"},{"start":28600.971,"end":28629.719,"text":"所以你不是說一定要把河山廠廢除囉這個當然是可以討論的議題所以你還是沒有確定嘛是不是你只要回答我這件事不是確定的問題這個是在法令的框架之下我們現在沒有辦法回答你我想這個大家都很關心啦其實你以前也有說過河山廠醫藥機已經除役那目前我們沒有一個重新啟動的法源可以來做所以目前無法討論所以有的話你們願意重啟嗎"},{"start":28630.475,"end":28652.361,"text":"那這個要經過社會的討論我們意思是說和安和廢跟社會共識是必要三個條件同時存在跟我們產業政策和環境政策影響所及非常的多陳一髮動全身剛剛討論那基本上還是一樣錯誤的能源配比那在這個能源和產業的關係上造成這個供電不穩進而降低廠商的競爭力那我想連黃仁勳也說過語重心長"},{"start":28654.982,"end":28672.292,"text":"穩定供電是台灣最大的挑戰要發展AI對嘛你們也都這樣想嘛所以謝謝其實我很喜歡我看到你們這樣點頭我覺得我是認同可是為什麼不敢做呢但是世界的大廠也紛紛要來台灣可是委員剛剛的時局到現在好像我們的產業一直往外走外國不進來我們的物價一直在上升"},{"start":28674.753,"end":28694.068,"text":"所以你要讓我們把話講清楚否則就停留在這個不是很正確的狀態裡面可是我用數據都拿出來給你看如果你覺得有異議你覺得有更好的數據提供你可以會後提供給我那個數字基本上是台積電到美國的這個數據所以它增加出來了所以台積電也去設廠了那也是總經理是外移"},{"start":28696.826,"end":28716.626,"text":"他就是因為外國的這個要求因為除了供電不穩之外﹖電價也連山漲所以我想這還是會有某種程度會帶動我們的通貨膨脹﹖會導致百化文就是錠毛效果﹖會讓我們物價回不去因為你接下來你也不能保證未來要不要再漲﹖因為你說還沒有辦法還沒有辦法到達成本所以我們建議癱瘓集中市場"},{"start":28720.56,"end":28738.067,"text":"亮飯店超商這個都不會去增加他的負擔就是要穩定物價最起碼該有的作為我想要講的就是其實現在我們可以整個邏輯看下來我們認為就是你們的能源政策在打假球主要的投手這個核電燃煤燃氣"},{"start":28739.187,"end":28750.916,"text":"都是主要先發投手像中繼後援的像水力風力太陽能這種就是一個一個釋出只剩下救援投手表現不穩定那如果你是球隊總經理那這樣子的配比你怎麼打比賽啊"},{"start":28751.84,"end":28777.687,"text":"被迫那到時候還沒有考量到國安問題50%的燃氣我們被封鎖了怎麼辦因為我時間不多我就先講我就是要跟你表達這件事情你們的能源政策如果在配比上不認真的務實的去檢討你們就是打假球打假球為什麼還要打因為後面有利益有財團是不是在護航誰這就是民眾的疑問這就是說為了堅持錯誤能源政策會讓民眾覺得說你是不是就為了貪腐"},{"start":28778.487,"end":28787.171,"text":"最後我還是想要問現在的政府對於能源政策不會拿來在偏袒哪一個團體哪一個哪一些人不會這樣做你放心謝謝廖委員"},{"start":28807.728,"end":28812.672,"text":"好 謝謝卓院長下一位請徐宇貞委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請卓院長請院長備詢"},{"start":28844.298,"end":28873.041,"text":"徐委員好院長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計劃法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計劃法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地"},{"start":28874.967,"end":28885.982,"text":"來供應國家的糧食安全我想請教一下這個院長您可以看一下我們下一張這個國土計畫法的目前的一個佼佼狀況"},{"start":28887.299,"end":28914.391,"text":"我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果秦雙院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二"},{"start":28916.175,"end":28931.02,"text":"這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致"},{"start":28932.18,"end":28952.803,"text":"我想跟委員說明就是各縣市政府在劃農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些劃設的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣它劃起來看起來比較低是因為現在目前一般劃農一農二都是用"},{"start":28953.383,"end":28980.959,"text":"特農跟一般農為基底的這不是看起來比較低喔是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔那時候是這個縣長是潘孟安潘縣長他在劃設這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來劃設其實是不對的那也有提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個劃設分區圖是"},{"start":28983.222,"end":28983.242,"text":"請問是這樣嗎?"},{"start":28991.834,"end":29005.74,"text":"應該不是這樣子我跟委員說明限制政府公展以後他審議完了以後會送到內政部來內政部會用合議的方式去處理這段時間還在溝通目前看到的資料的話現在是限制政府的資料暫時是這樣的資料請問一下為什麼當時雲林縣在提報的時候就被退回然後要求重劃這個我要澄清"},{"start":29019.745,"end":29034.252,"text":"現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事"},{"start":29040.054,"end":29068.365,"text":"一千五百四十公頃要他們把這化成為農二要求他們這個恢復成農醫這是在一百一十一年一月四號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我是想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的這個區區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣"},{"start":29070.046,"end":29092.042,"text":"這是有一個統一的標準讓大家可以徵詢那如果有違反一致的標準當然可以拿出來討論那剛剛部長解釋是在全國一致的標準那現在呢其實為什麼很多的農民很多的這個地方農業縣的縣政府對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮主要就是因為農一跟農二到底有什麼差別"},{"start":29092.822,"end":29114.135,"text":"我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢"},{"start":29120.629,"end":29123.891,"text":"因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個"},{"start":29142.339,"end":29144.121,"text":"對農民的補貼：農民的差異：農業縣市：草野立委提出質疑："},{"start":29158.892,"end":29180.426,"text":"我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對國土計畫法,為什麼?因為就是不夠了解,而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚,尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法,目前已經完成14項,還有9項還沒有完成。"},{"start":29181.365,"end":29205.966,"text":"是這樣嗎請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下其實國土計畫它有二級審議一級審議在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為它名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間"},{"start":29206.787,"end":29232.569,"text":"還包括哪一次都已經明確的告知部長﹖我知道﹖但是有些延長會議﹖並不代表官方的審議會議﹖我要跟您報告一下﹖那這部分是不是請部長﹖能夠回去查清楚﹖那可以讓雲林縣有一個﹖瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌﹖如果可以的話﹖他們就再送﹖再把這1500公斤再歸回去﹖對 院長再三指示說﹖一定要好好的溝通﹖那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說﹖就我所瞭解的部分﹖"},{"start":29233.129,"end":29233.83,"text":"其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望"},{"start":29255.606,"end":29256.767,"text":"報告委員 農會、農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過可能很多人是誤解的"},{"start":29282.748,"end":29289.93,"text":"雲林縣也是比照屏東縣的畫設標準來去做這樣可以嗎他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像是雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理"},{"start":29308.636,"end":29323.514,"text":"一旦他們提出來以後我們就會進到實質的一個討論去做一個調整就是原則上我們就是希望說這個雲林縣也可以比照屏東縣的一個畫色的標準來去把農因農惡釐清那我覺得在這個部分我覺得我們應該要先公佈這個完整的這個"},{"start":29324.935,"end":29345.329,"text":"我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的這個執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請這個院長希望縣市政府可以跟農民講清楚"},{"start":29353.674,"end":29375.401,"text":"對 剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是 它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法"},{"start":29378.217,"end":29400.086,"text":"有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利致人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字"},{"start":29401.889,"end":29420.501,"text":"我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計法法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混回一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來"},{"start":29421.101,"end":29425.685,"text":"那經過這麼多年 不只是司法沒有動 連母法也沒有動阿我跟委員說明齁"},{"start":29449.523,"end":29464.425,"text":"我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼"},{"start":29465.219,"end":29465.419,"text":"對於農民的"},{"start":29490.672,"end":29504.318,"text":"各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是"},{"start":29518.405,"end":29539.816,"text":"民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你們可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金"},{"start":29540.748,"end":29556.548,"text":"也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來"},{"start":29557.469,"end":29557.769,"text":"委員長 我想"},{"start":29577.35,"end":29577.37,"text":"請問院長"},{"start":29590.376,"end":29617.479,"text":"光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好雪本文貴最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢的農民是非常的不公平喔"},{"start":29617.919,"end":29646.344,"text":"所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工"},{"start":29647.399,"end":29669.889,"text":"請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長"},{"start":29671.449,"end":29685.316,"text":"回答委員第一點我們現在已經有劉金青政委跟陳靜德政委再加上內政部跟農業部對國土計畫法的如何的推動如何跟農民做溝通說明持續的在進行相關會議當中第二點農業部"},{"start":29687.677,"end":29701.869,"text":"他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持常年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年達到200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想那第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識"},{"start":29702.95,"end":29703.05,"text":"社會住宅"},{"start":29727.344,"end":29736.09,"text":"社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以決標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據"},{"start":29749.04,"end":29766.855,"text":"院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅"},{"start":29767.375,"end":29767.495,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":29785.242,"end":29809.487,"text":"是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶"},{"start":29812.805,"end":29835.507,"text":"那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖是﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉強﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖"},{"start":29837.549,"end":29853.746,"text":"這個針對百萬租屋家庭支持計畫大概在2032年會達到25萬戶的住宅社會住宅那剛剛廖委員希望你們簽一個承諾書院長沒有簽嘛那我知道院長其實為什麼您沒有簽你知道嗎因為我們看下一張"},{"start":29856.067,"end":29866.46,"text":"審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在"},{"start":29871.476,"end":29872.416,"text":"報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下"},{"start":29895.126,"end":29922.597,"text":"您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差"},{"start":29923.137,"end":29935.422,"text":"那我覺得這個部分呢其實我們應該要對國人說清楚講名牌而不是用這樣子的一個這樣子的數字去美化然後讓大家以為說我們社會住宅的成績很好我們應該務實的去面對務實的去面對這樣子的問題"},{"start":29939.659,"end":29955.965,"text":"省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作"},{"start":29956.385,"end":29961.347,"text":"更快速的請求 請求獨立來興建組織都有在討論這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點"},{"start":29974.192,"end":29978.415,"text":"社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎?"},{"start":29993.118,"end":30020.449,"text":"住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到下一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍"},{"start":30021.505,"end":30044.847,"text":"所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億支援有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個"},{"start":30046.088,"end":30073.74,"text":"這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住住中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住住中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住住中心呢在這個賴總統上任之後呢其實加速在全台灣各地包括在金門馬祖離島的地方都有住住中心要蓋的社會住宅"},{"start":30074.44,"end":30096.041,"text":"所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的這個省計部的決算報告也提出了很多租屋中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝齡補助費用等等相關的問題很多那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎"},{"start":30097.636,"end":30121.618,"text":"報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前已經甚至我們還聽到部長我甚至還聽到很多就是說你在住宅中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宅中心暫缺但是是在部會任職"},{"start":30122.859,"end":30133.26,"text":"所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姊弟長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎"},{"start":30135.86,"end":30162.371,"text":"另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話"},{"start":30166.374,"end":30173.119,"text":"有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦"},{"start":30188.712,"end":30205.455,"text":"那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎"},{"start":30218.971,"end":30219.291,"text":"我們看下一張號"},{"start":30234.338,"end":30249.729,"text":"而且很多科技的詐騙我們都必須往下做我們現在有一個打債預表板 行政署的打債預表板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額"},{"start":30258.175,"end":30282.724,"text":"那我們為什麼我先問完我們可以看到為什麼會有這麼高的經驗我們可以看到詐騙的手法你可以看到有很多種第一點我們可以看到跟第四點其實差不多就是都是投資詐騙都是投資詐騙那我們可以看到就是說既然投資詐騙非常的多那是不是這方面的宣導應該也要更多好的"},{"start":30286.366,"end":30309.523,"text":"打詐疑表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐疑表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的然後裡面的案件數其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案那還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的你知不知道我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些"},{"start":30312.057,"end":30327.874,"text":"打架事法剛通過打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠"},{"start":30328.554,"end":30334.876,"text":"有補充充足的人力有法律的依據甚至我們有科技先進的科技設備所以說我們其實打詐這部分我想一般人普遍的認知都是覺得說詐騙的問題越來越猖狂越來越嚴重"},{"start":30350.38,"end":30372.455,"text":"當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區您可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看您可以看一下就是"},{"start":30374.251,"end":30398.398,"text":"瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了兩年的時間有2000多人關瀏覽就代表說一天可能三個人"},{"start":30398.945,"end":30399.746,"text":"通過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶"},{"start":30425.06,"end":30442.047,"text":"在臨櫃的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的他們的服務已經超越了原來的這個工作上的職務所以他們的金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應"},{"start":30450.771,"end":30450.931,"text":"請經管會特別注意"},{"start":30466.726,"end":30494.178,"text":"實現委員的指正這我們會馬上來另外最近還有一個議題請教一下院長最近這個新興併就是台新金跟新光金的議題受到全國的矚目那新光金大概10月11號也要召開臨時的一個股東會請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎"},{"start":30495.441,"end":30497.604,"text":"也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎"},{"start":30501.38,"end":30529.968,"text":"我們覺得這個對於個資如果這樣的使用的話應該是不對的嘛對那我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣子一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要這個可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資"},{"start":30530.828,"end":30531.588,"text":"我們會請同仁去了解一下"},{"start":30547.717,"end":30565.582,"text":"我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦"},{"start":30566.762,"end":30591.774,"text":"所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳"},{"start":30592.614,"end":30594.215,"text":"我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持"},{"start":30622.577,"end":30645.089,"text":"那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖"},{"start":30656.816,"end":30662.42,"text":"好謝謝謝謝徐委員下一位我們請張宏祿委員質詢"},{"start":30688.87,"end":30690.274,"text":"我先請院長請卓院長"},{"start":30703.525,"end":30721.904,"text":"張委員好院長好今天剛好是10月1號是中共我們以前叫偽政權不過今天是他們慶祝他們建政75週年所以他特別昨天晚上在人民大會堂又特別發表了談話"},{"start":30723.4,"end":30748.262,"text":"說到臺灣問題的時候他又說要堅持一個中國原則和九二共識深化兩岸經濟文化交流合作促進兩岸同胞心靈契合堅決反對台獨分裂活動最重要是他還是要說實現祖國完全統一啊我不知道院長啊我們這個對他說的這些話有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":30749.497,"end":30749.677,"text":"其實我們也是應該這樣"},{"start":30775.036,"end":30775.236,"text":"好,好,謝謝"},{"start":30804.355,"end":30813.985,"text":"那個 院長你先請坐啦齁我請交通部長啦你坐著沒關係啦不用一直站著啦委員站著我就必須站著我沒有站一整天齁"},{"start":30822.718,"end":30840.627,"text":"陳部長其實我不知道現在進勞卡是可以搭台鐵搭火車你也知道這個議題我在這個位置質詢了很多次你7月30號還有召開座談會針對這個議題我已經努力了好幾年了所以已經完成了"},{"start":30847.942,"end":30871.499,"text":"上一次的總質詢我有請教李孟彥部長我說台鐵就是一個成功的例子了那高鐵呢高鐵我認為也是可以然後那時候部長跟我講說其實他非常支持他回去會研究會趕快來做那我不知道"},{"start":30873.379,"end":30897.017,"text":"副長你這個交接的時候這些有沒有交接於你進度如何這個議題其實我有了解也有掌握那這個勁老卡其實每個縣市都有在發那我們也希望他能夠拓展到更多的運具從現在可以用的運具到未來可以用的運具要漸漸的來增加"},{"start":30897.947,"end":30926.264,"text":"那所以高鐵的部分委員也都一直很關心那部裡面也有跟高鐵公司這邊來做研究那目前所了解他們如果要做12個站體要能夠接受敬老卡的這個設施的話他們必須要改硬體那目前看起來算起來他們的硬體設施大概要7000萬左右不包含後面的軟體的那個更改軟體的更改另外算那另外呢也需要跟地方政府來配合因為每個縣市的敬老卡他的系統不盡相同"},{"start":30927.885,"end":30955.682,"text":"所以後面可能還有很多要延續來做但是前面的這個硬體建設我們已經跟高鐵公司在研究了看可不可以趕快來做部長跟院長我要一個觀念要溝通剛開始要不要搭火車搭台鐵大家就在講說各縣市這個額度不一然後各縣市意願不一我就說你只要把它做好了"},{"start":30956.994,"end":30972.189,"text":"我跟你講各縣市一定都會讓他們的長者可以去搭火車果不其然阿現在是不是幾乎阿全台灣的各縣市的長者都可以搭火車了同樣的道理"},{"start":30973.206,"end":30992.291,"text":"你高鐵你看才花7000多萬雖然是很這個數字我們不能說少但是全台灣的長者有多少你花了7000多萬我跟你講就會有縣市去配合只要一個縣市往前走全部就跟著走了"},{"start":30993.001,"end":31009.845,"text":"那可以讓一個長者他一個多一個選擇的空間讓他們可以去搭高鐵我認為是一個非常好的一件事情所以部長我覺得這7000多萬在整個交通部來講真的是九牛一毛我覺得應該要花啦好不好我不知道院長你的看法"},{"start":31017.208,"end":31042.913,"text":"謝謝委員 早上有位委員也提到問說我們是不是有敬老卡我就把敬老卡帶在身上我就把敬老卡帶在身上但是我真的用過它我搭過公車但是我還沒有搭過台鐵那如果它能夠更充分的使用的話那像我們這樣子還可以四處跑的人應該是相當的方便我是覺得建議交通部跟高鐵公司也能夠去協調一下盡量讓我們的長者能夠"},{"start":31043.922,"end":31067.806,"text":"因為活動而健康因為健康我們也不用這麼多的照顧的這個經費這樣來算的話7000多萬或是可以再節約一下是值得是應該的在這邊替全國的長者先謝謝卓院長替自己也爭取一下你還算年輕但替全國的長者真的謝謝因為不要覺得7000多萬多你全國那麼多人其實不多"},{"start":31068.7,"end":31069.08,"text":"再來部長"},{"start":31082.646,"end":31107.107,"text":"這個泰山板橋輕軌我一直在爭取一個色後支線這個部長你也剛上任可能不清楚可是我必須跟你講我們交通部這邊我們把這個規劃的路線什麼的其實都已經有設計的都已經有一個色後支線的輪廓出來了"},{"start":31109.761,"end":31129.782,"text":"那其實現在就是兩個一個新北市政府跟我們這邊大家能夠配合能夠把這個把它做好新北市政府也說他人道又要留了然後呢他又弄了好幾條的路線說一句白話就是因為選舉他在拖啦"},{"start":31131.035,"end":31156.324,"text":"因為這是一開始就是我提出來的啦那新北市政府的態度就是能拖就拖啦不要在選前齁這個能夠定案啦新北市政府的態度就是這樣啦那我在這邊我要跟部長你說包括泰山板橋輕軌那時候我第一次當立委的時候我就麻煩我們交通部給規劃的預算"},{"start":31158.663,"end":31185.192,"text":"但我覺得一個地方的交通建設不應該因為選舉不應該因為政黨的不同而拖到這個期程所以我要在這邊要跟部長你說該怎麼樣就怎麼樣我們硬起來嘛給新北市政府不要他每次要來他都一堆理由中央不支持然後怎麼樣中央支持的東西他故意在那邊拖"},{"start":31186.448,"end":31195.247,"text":"然後講一堆理由我把這個情況讓部長這樣你要交代你們底下你們鐵道部什麼的態度要硬起來"},{"start":31196.428,"end":31197.169,"text":"我們來努力推動"},{"start":31221.904,"end":31237.734,"text":"我們來努力推動態度要硬起來不可以讓新北市政府這樣子好不好 可以吧好那要拜託部長好 謝謝那我來請一下這個文化部長你"},{"start":31250.68,"end":31272.131,"text":"部長,在我們板橋有一個國家兒童未來館的一個新建計畫,不知道部長對這個計畫了解多少?跟委員報告一下,這個計畫到去年11月20號就已經正式設計圖已經出來,而且由那個日本的伊東李雄"},{"start":31273.231,"end":31298.677,"text":"臺灣的建築師標到這個案子然後設計圖已經做出來了我上任以後知道有這個案子以後我立刻在一個月內約伊東李雄來臺灣針對這個案子重新討論講出我們的一些想法我們彼此的想法非常接近他也非常愉快我們想要在一個打造像森林一般的這個森林一般的一個未來館那"},{"start":31300.962,"end":31323.809,"text":"之後就我們要花這兩年的時間今天跟明年要做構造設計跟細部設計還有執照的申請那在這個等待的過程中我已經決定要做一個願景館在那個草地上透過願景館跟我們的真正小孩子開始進行探索才了解什麼叫做未來什麼叫做兒童未來"},{"start":31324.629,"end":31324.649,"text":"部長"},{"start":31353.454,"end":31381.585,"text":"這一個國家兒童未來館以前叫做特專山的專用地9393年要蓋大台北新劇院我是支持的非常支持104年新北市政府他要蓋商辦蓋豪宅全板橋人只有我民意代表只有我敢反對我就是不讓他蓋商辦蓋豪宅"},{"start":31382.54,"end":31411.646,"text":"然後我當立委我積極爭取不管你要是新居院也好或是什麼的也好反正就是不可以蓋保護公司不可以蓋豪宅好不容易我的堅持跟我的爭取行政院合定了行政院164億165億合定了那現在我是希望他趕快好趕快做好我跟你講"},{"start":31412.799,"end":31430.946,"text":"委員長我必須要在前面說一下每一個部長上來都有他的新想法我不認為你們的新想法不對但不要每個部長來一個新想法又拖了這拖到什麼時候"},{"start":31432.432,"end":31453.2,"text":"對不對委員報告剛剛部長說過已經跟團隊來簽約了日方團隊簽約了後續內政部會接手國土組我希望在5年當中能夠完成院長簽約是部長還未來前就簽約了啦我說他5年當中要完成內政部國土組來接手我來解釋一下"},{"start":31453.82,"end":31482.601,"text":"包括曾經追加的預算我也跟設計師重新再算一遍說保證不能再追加預算然後在那個建築的體多大全部再確定一次我非常感動在一個大雨中走到那個這麼精華的地方我真的覺得非常大膽的決定要蓋這個羅東未來館那我沒有想要耽誤時間我覺得我一定要在期間內完成我不但要完成"},{"start":31483.342,"end":31488.804,"text":"而且希望充分利用它在蓋的過程中給我們兒童建築教育"},{"start":31489.52,"end":31494.844,"text":"我沒有說你會拖到時間我是說每次都這樣都會有很多改變這第一個是擔心第二個你也看到了我為什麼堅持在那塊地就是不可以蓋百貨公司什麼的"},{"start":31518.103,"end":31543.025,"text":"本橋最後一塊最大的樹地地點又最好你要做這些做什麼我其實有更好的想法更好的創意我們都可以接受只要是為了整個小孩子好因為這已經定案了未來是全台灣甚至全世界的小孩來的不是只有板橋的小孩子來的所以我在這邊我必須要說"},{"start":31544.046,"end":31545.228,"text":"施政報告"},{"start":31559.671,"end":31587.712,"text":"在這裡就是要跟部長你說不管有什麼新的想法 新的什麼拜託 風塵不要再因為新的想法 新的什麼大幅在變動了這樣子就會拖到很多的時間我不會有新的想法就在原有的結構裡面沒有太大改變這點請委員放心但是因為這麼珍貴的一塊土地對我們來講我真的是要好好的把它做成是一個世界級的兒童未來這點請委員放心"},{"start":31589.554,"end":31606.832,"text":"你的想法跟我一樣我們一起努力不過我也要請部長要跟你們的團隊說一下我是在地的立委我爭取我生出來的很多事情也要跟我溝通一下要尊重一下"},{"start":31620.036,"end":31641.008,"text":"好,謝謝張委員也謝謝卓院長發言會本日排定質詢的委員均與質詢完畢謝謝卓院長、政府院長及各部會首長列席答詢現做以下決定下次會繼續進行施政報告之質詢繼續處理復議案"},{"start":31644.022,"end":31660.377,"text":"本院民進黨黨團針對第一次會議報告事項第24案之決定提出復議請公決案現做以下決定另定其處理報告院會本次會議進行到此為止現在散會"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","委員發言時間":"08:29:59 - 17:18:00"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}