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謝謝委員如果有任何的新的技術跟資訊在整個吸鹽設備上面來講我們也可以推介給現在的吸鹹廠不是 吸鹹廠他們又下不了手說價格都很貴 宰到人家都不想做"},{"start":97.341,"end":121.58,"text":"軟體都以為很便宜我只是這樣講真的要提升我們這個水準一定要用現代化的技術科技的去做我只提醒這一點量少廠商也不一定願意做這個注意一下但是如果在台灣做成功的話可以銷到世界各國去希望這一點我是提出來再來今天是我們經濟委員會"},{"start":123.963,"end":140.578,"text":"來解凍我們農業部跟公平委員會那談到解凍最近發生了很多的事情都說我們災害黨在刪預算在凍結預算那我剛剛請我辦公室把他列出來"},{"start":141.929,"end":169.77,"text":"在114年度農業部本部的預算減列委員會裡面2500萬零包時減列零水保時減列零移業時減列零房檢時減列是零等於刪你們的預算是零再來農經時也是零農糧時也是零農田水利時也是零刪列你們的預算"},{"start":170.697,"end":176.702,"text":"那凍結多少?有,你的本部是2.34億,林保是2200萬元,水保是1000萬元,那個漁業是5300萬,黃金是500萬,農金是200萬,農糧是3000萬,農田水綠是凍結500萬,"},{"start":196.557,"end":201.779,"text":"你剛才唸的這個數據一個證明就是什麼我們經濟委員會的委員用專業的方式來看我們農業部的預算所以啊經濟委員會所有不分陶園兩派都很支持你們你也來亂說把凍結預算說三類你是老實啊 我不好意思講你還是很專業"},{"start":226.386,"end":242.801,"text":"那有的其他委員 大家在這個經濟委員會裡面都一群二子怎麼可以這樣在電視台亂講不是 那個是在黨團 黨團在提案的時候黨團出來也差不多這樣子沒有 黨團出來 農業部曾經要被刪到剩下零欸哪裏農業部會後面刪到 叫這個經濟委員會這些人不能做啊我們怎麼敢去面對農民"},{"start":249.167,"end":261.996,"text":"不然五百萬是拿來賭的所以像您對農業了解你們就OK所以我不好意思跟你講你真的比較老實一點講得無法無天的一片造假虛偽"},{"start":263.939,"end":278.228,"text":"真的沒有這樣的事情你們亂想出來我想我們農業部發出來的一定都是真實的我跟您說不是一定怎麼樣不要配合上面真正的大家在這個地方審查預算誰有跟你們亂過誰有跟你們亂刪過你們自己人如果再刪你們不曉得嗎"},{"start":284.076,"end":296.304,"text":"比在野頂高高高高二百不是我們在調和的時候哪裡有這樣我是要講一下現在大壩面如獨如我我要把事實尊重不然這口氣真的吞不下去讓你們講到不聽話"},{"start":298.442,"end":314.759,"text":"好像執政黨很清高,在野黨都亂山綠山我希望好好檢討一下朝野的和諧很重要啊我講這個不針對你,我是把事情講出來好不好啊當然啦,參了預算,有的人要改指"},{"start":315.751,"end":335.401,"text":"我只希望你留下來 你有沒有信心留下來說留下來你就笑 我會替你保健因為你是腳踏實地在做事情的人你管你預算你也不敢亂花眼剛剛是給你表態而已 跟上面先是效忠我達到你的目的 留下來吧"},{"start":336.994,"end":353.972,"text":"留下來以後在地有幾件事情要拜託你我要謝謝你苗栗的冷鏈計畫你也給我們360萬做前期的規劃那後期的規劃很重要冷鏈一流冷鏈物流冷鏈的知識改得好"},{"start":354.713,"end":375.586,"text":"我相信會帶動臺灣農業的一個發展也能保障農民生產的權益因為我現在去了解說現在的技術突破變化的太快臺灣這一點好好去把它鍛鍊一下把這整個做下來可以的話到國外隨時大家都能生產"},{"start":376.607,"end":387.161,"text":"我只做一點,要愛情你要好好拜託,不要說我給你笑笑的,給你惹惹的你就不要給我,我告訴你,你剛剛的校中行政院長一定聽得到啦,"},{"start":388.564,"end":401.274,"text":"要不要補助計畫出來好好審你不要笑而不答很曖昧我就很緊張我現在不知道怎麼回答您的問題你這樣子也不敢回答你給我的話你怕被上面罵我們在委員長你給了怕被上面罵嗎大膽一點該做的就要做我們回到專業"},{"start":409.64,"end":434.792,"text":"就是您剛才講的冷鏈的計畫我們提供一些規劃費規劃完了以後我們會規劃後的方案跟它的規模還有它的營運主體我們會經過審查會在可能的範圍之內我想區域冷鏈物理中心是一個非常重要非常重要我們會來協助但是還是要看最後的規劃出來的這些規模跟它的經營主體還有它的相關的這些設計啦這個我們後續會透過審查來確定好的"},{"start":438.333,"end":464.705,"text":"農糧市長你最了解你台中分屎出來我會請教過你好幾次你要下來指導我會做的完美給你好不好你還要弄給我去做以前是我不會做現在是從頭都要設計好不要改來改去我們的確診抓住這一點好不好再來我經常拜託的農奉醫港直銷中心我們的規劃大概完成也是最近要送進來"},{"start":466.309,"end":481.229,"text":"我常常給你愛情,給你爽爽的,你會不會為難我容然是要做最好,請多多幫忙那個地點很漂亮,你有沒有去過我昨天還去看歌,我們現在的現狀,我看歌走這麼遠"},{"start":482.776,"end":497.124,"text":"都在旁邊離岸婚禮也在那一邊地點非常優越全台灣省找不到了我的照片再傳給你看晚上照片起來非常漂亮真的是地方創新能給農民有很高的"},{"start":498.485,"end":515.106,"text":"以後量以外那以後變成一個人潮的中心我照片給你我昨天特地去看我跟小孩子去看課現在的量雖然沒有贏但是還能達到四分之三那以後中心幫幫忙好不好"},{"start":516.014,"end":536.833,"text":"我想同樣的我們也提供了大概四百八十幾萬的規劃費嘛我要跟委員報告其實我們現在遇到一個更重要的問題就是財務法以後農業部的非常多的預算要被切出去所以相對的我們在符合我們農業部在協助的部分特別是在你們這邊提到的這些直銷中心"},{"start":537.654,"end":566.974,"text":"然後他規劃出來以後我們看他的規模然後怎麼樣跟地方政府一起努力讓這個職教中心能夠成立這是最大目標啦保證 財務法現在在大法庭釋憲我判斷會拖一兩年我的判斷不一定會通過因為兩邊還要再協調我不曉得有沒有送去釋憲如果財務法的釋憲等解釋出來大概最少要拖兩年"},{"start":568.975,"end":589.416,"text":"兩邊還有溫隆山要請請測測在一些還沒有很確定以前雖然立法院過了但是所有執政黨都不承認他不喜歡的就收到大法庭去這也很奇怪但是我講如果沒有確定以前容然照舊的話請多多的幫忙跟協助好不好"},{"start":589.876,"end":607.748,"text":"會 我們會一起來跟地方政府一起來努力現在再來 我的問題比較小 也沒有說很大白沙屯有一個農會要改建 你們昨天就說要跟我們答應那個是一個地標 會給你農業部做很好的景點一天去到 15萬人 輪山輪海"},{"start":612.224,"end":631.961,"text":"他們送計畫來我們會來處理應該送計畫囉還沒有送還沒有送我去追他們幫幫忙好不好媽祖要幫你保佑每一個人都升官你留任好不好謝謝真的喔上來要給我倒上槓喔不然我不敢去別山路去拜拜因為我要看他啦"},{"start":632.779,"end":653.5,"text":"你這樣講就變成對價關係了不是對價關係我是拜託啊我想我們針對相關的地方的建設在中央的財政許可的範圍之內我們會來做協助然後重點就是說地方包括農會那部分他也要有規劃案出來我們才能夠做評估保證啊你敢說對價關係我為人不敢說"},{"start":656.883,"end":672.826,"text":"你這名對駕我們為民請命你要說對駕你比檢察官還惡劣我是替百姓承認這個要解決了因為講到對駕現在都隨便亂談只要一談就把你扣上去我有順利其通的感覺"},{"start":673.467,"end":689.76,"text":"不會啦 我想委員是從地方的角度來爭取經費的好啦 你不要講對價 等一下檢察官這邊有錄音 檢察官把我拿過去你受害我了 改天我會找機會跟你回覆一下好不好 謝謝 拜託了"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":616,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時4分）首先謝謝主席，有請陳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["陳委員超明：部長早。剛剛我聽到謝衣鳯在講洗選蛋，苗栗的蛋沒有像彰化那麼多，洗的方面我比較不清楚，我是剛剛才聽到，但是對於選蛋，現在有一個AI技術，而且非常好，那一家公司要跟我們農業部去合作、去談的時候，覺得困難很多，所以他只有外銷到國外，沒有在臺灣賣，因為臺灣的雞場也不大，但是你們在採購時這些就要去看，如果可以，就統一採購給雞場去做，用AI來選，可以挑選出最高級的蛋，且完全依照國外的水準，這是剛剛謝委員在質詢的議題，我談到這一點。如果你有需要，我就提供這家公司給你們，真的非常好。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員，如果有任何新的技術跟資訊，在整個洗選設備上面來講，我們也可以……"],["陳委員超明：不要去排斥。"],["陳部長駿季：我們可以推介給現在的洗選廠。"],["陳委員超明：不是，洗選廠又下不了手，說價格都很貴，宰到人家都不想做，軟體都以為很便宜，我只是這樣講。真的要提升我們的水準，一定要用現代化的技術，用科技去做，我只是提醒這一點。"],["陳部長駿季：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：量少廠商也不一定願意做，這個注意一下。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：但是如果在臺灣做成功的話，可以銷到世界各國去，我是提出這一點。","再來，今天是經濟委員會要解凍農業部跟公平委員會的預算。談到解凍，最近發生很多事情，都說我們在野黨在刪預算、在凍結預算，我剛剛請我的辦公室把它列出來，在114年度，農業部本部的預算在委員會裡面減列2,500萬，林保署減列0，水保署減列0，漁業署減列0，防檢署減列0，等於刪你們的預算是0。再來，農金署也是減列0，農糧署也是減列0，農田水利署也是減列0。那凍結多少？有！你的本部是2.34億，林保署2,200萬元，水保署1,000萬元，漁業署5,300萬，防檢署500萬，農金署200萬，農糧署3,000萬，農田水利署凍結500萬，你們講得天花亂墜……"],["陳部長駿季：委員，你剛才念的數據，證明的就是什麼？證明經濟委員會的委員用專業的方式來看我們農業部的預算，所以他刪的是合理的，我們被刪的是在黨團裡面被刪的。"],["陳委員超明：經濟委員會不分朝野黨派都很支持你們，你們不要隨便亂說……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有……"],["陳委員超明：把凍結預算說成刪減，唉唷！你是老實，我不好意思講你，你還不敢亂講啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對，委員會的是很專業……"],["陳委員超明：有的其他委員，大家在經濟委員會裡面都一清二楚，怎麼可以在電視台這樣亂講！"],["陳部長駿季：不是，那個是黨團在提案的時候……"],["陳委員超明：黨團出來的也差不多是這樣子啦！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，黨團出來後，農業部曾經要被刪到剩下0耶！"],["陳委員超明：哪有把農業部刪到0？"],["陳部長駿季：那是後面才撤案的。"],["陳委員超明：經濟委員會這些人不會這樣做，不然我們怎麼敢去面對農民？不要隨便拼湊，要升官也不是這樣！"],["陳部長駿季：像您對農業了解，你們就OK……"],["陳委員超明：你是比較老實一點，所以我不好意思跟你講，你真的是比較老實一點。講得無法無天，一片造假虛偽，真的沒有這樣的事情，你們亂講出來！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們農業部發出來的一定都是真實的。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你說，不是一定怎麼樣，不要配合上面，真正的大家在這個地方審查預算，誰有跟你們亂刪過？你們自己人也有在刪，你們不曉得嗎？比在野黨還更霸道，要不是我們在調和，哪裡有這樣！我是要說，現在大罷免如火如荼，我要把事實呈現出來，不然這口氣真的吞不下去，被你們講得不能聽，好像只有執政黨很清高，在野黨都亂刪預算！回去好好檢討一下，朝野的和諧很重要。我講這些不是針對你，我只是把實情講出來，好不好？當然，刪了預算，聽說520要改組，我只希望你能夠留下來，你有沒有信心留下來？","說到留下來你就笑，我會替你保薦，因為你是腳踏實地在做事情的人。關於預算，你也不敢亂花。剛剛是給你表態而已，跟上面宣誓效忠，我達到你的目的，留下來吧！留下來以後，我在地方有幾件事情要拜託你。我很謝謝你，有關苗栗的冷鏈計畫，你給我們360萬做前期的規劃，後期的規劃也很重要，冷鏈物流的技術改得好，我相信會帶動臺灣農業的發展，也能保障農民生產的權益。因為我下去了解，發現現在的技術突破、變化得太快，臺灣要好好去把這一點鍛鍊一下，整個做下來，可以的話，到國外大家隨時都能生存，我只要求這一點，需要經費，你要讓我拜託，不要我罵一罵，你就不給我。我跟你說，你剛剛的效忠，行政院長一定聽得到，要不要補助我？計畫出來了，好好審！你不要笑而不答，你很曖昧，我就很緊張。"],["陳部長駿季：我實在不知道怎麼回答您的問題。"],["陳委員超明：你這樣子也不敢回答？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，苗栗的……"],["陳委員超明：你給我的話，你怕被上面罵嗎？你給了在野黨，怕被上面罵嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有！"],["陳委員超明：大膽一點，該做的就要做。"],["陳部長駿季：我們回到專業。您剛才講的冷鏈計畫，我們提供了一些規劃費，規劃完了以後，規劃後的方案跟它的規模，還有它的營運主體，我們會經過審查，在可能的範圍之內，我想區域冷鏈物流中心是非常重要的……"],["陳委員超明：非常重要。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會來協助，但還是要看最後規劃出來的這些規模跟它的經營主體，還有相關的設計，我們後續會透過審查來確定。"],["陳委員超明：好。農糧署長，你最了解，你是臺中分署出來的，我請教過你好幾次，你要下來指導，我會做得完美給你，好不好？你要下來給我指導。"],["姚署長士源：好。"],["陳委員超明：以前是亂做，現在是從頭都要設計好，不要改來改去，我們要確認抓住這一點，好不好？再來是我常常拜託的龍鳳漁港直銷中心，我們的規劃大概完成，也是最近要送進來，我常常跟你要錢、跟你吵一吵，你會不會為難？我仍然是要做到最好，請多多幫忙！那個地點很漂亮，你有沒有去過？我昨天還去牽罟，現在當地牽罟有很多「現撈仔」漁產，而離岸風力也在那邊，地點非常優越，全臺灣省找不到了。我再傳照片給你看，晚上照起來非常漂亮。地方創生除了能給農民有很高的漁獲量以外，以後那裡也會變成一個有人潮的中心。我給你照片，我昨天特地去看，我孩童時期就在牽罟，雖然現在的量沒有贏過當時，但是還能達到四分之三。請幫幫忙成立魚貨中心，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：同樣的，我們也提供了大概四百八十幾萬的規劃費嘛！"],["陳委員超明：對。"],["陳部長駿季：其實我們現在遇到一個更重要的問題，就是財劃法修正以後，農業部有非常多的預算要被切出去，所以相對的，符合農業部在協助的部分，特別是這邊提到的直銷中心規劃出來以後，我們看它的規模，怎麼樣跟地方政府一起努力，讓這個直銷中心能夠成立，這是最大目標。至於鼓勵……"],["陳委員超明：財劃法現在在大法庭釋憲，我判斷會拖一、兩年，我的判斷是不一定會通過，因為兩邊還要再協調，我不曉得有沒有送去釋憲。如果等財劃法憲法解釋出來最少要拖兩年，我們都知道、清清楚楚，在還沒有很確定以前，雖然立法院過了，但是執政黨都不承認，他不喜歡的就送到大法庭，這也很奇怪！如果沒有確定以前仍然照舊的話，請多多幫忙跟協助，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會跟地方政府一起來努力。"],["陳委員超明：再來，我的問題比較少，也不是很大，白沙屯有一個農會要改建，你們那時候下鄉說要答應，那是一個地標，也可以給農業部作為很好的景點，一次有四、五十萬人，人山人海。"],["陳部長駿季：他們送計畫來，我們就會處理。"],["陳委員超明：應該送計畫了。"],["陳部長駿季：還沒有送。"],["陳委員超明：我去追他們，幫幫忙，好不好？媽祖會保佑你，每一個人都升官，你留任，好不好？謝謝。送來真的要幫忙我，不然我不敢去白沙屯媽祖那裡拜拜，因為我有答應過祂。"],["陳部長駿季：你這樣講就變成對價關係了。"],["陳委員超明：不是對價關係，我是拜託，跟你們拜託。"],["陳部長駿季：不是針對相關的地方建設，在中央財政許可的範圍之內，我們會來協助。重點就是地方包括農會也要有規劃案出來，我們才能夠評估。"],["陳委員超明：部長，你跟我說對價關係，害我話都不敢講。這不是對價，我們是為民請命，你跟我說對價，你比檢察官還惡劣。"],["陳部長駿季：不是！"],["陳委員超明：我是替百姓陳情，這個要解決。因為講到對價，現在都不能隨便亂談，只要一談就把你扣上去，我有身歷其痛的感覺。"],["陳部長駿季：不會！"],["陳委員超明：但是我很誠懇、我很實在。"],["陳部長駿季：委員是從地方的角度來爭取經費的。"],["陳委員超明：好，你不要講對價，這邊有錄音，等一下檢察官把我抓過去，你陷害我，改天我會找機會跟你回復一下。"],["陳部長駿季：不敢！"],["陳委員超明：好不好？謝謝，拜託了。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時16分）","繼續開會（11時22分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","下一位請賴瑞隆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-13","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭昱晴","陳冠廷","張雅琳","呂玉玲"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 30案；二、處理或\n審查114年度中央政府總預算有關公平交易委員會主管預算凍結案等8案","agenda_id":"1145101_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}