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些有效的監控點能夠更早期的了解到病蟲害的發生的一個情況"},{"start":2313.591,"end":2331.572,"text":"提供給農民做資訊,讓農民更早的去做相關的病重癌的一個預防,能夠減少它的一個用藥。特別是類似像在青花菜的部分,我們就有非常好的一個成果,能夠讓整個的一個相關的管理下能夠做大幅的一個提升。"},{"start":2334.965,"end":2353.582,"text":"農產品的品質在生產端我們叫做生產品質生產品質農民的部分一定會很認真的去把它維護可是到了消費端的時候就是所謂的消費品質這個之間就需要很多冷鏈的部分跟物流的部分去確保"},{"start":2354.082,"end":2376.202,"text":"那過去4年裡面我們已經打造了大概3處的旗艦型14處的區域冷面的中心那另外針對40個批發市場包括農漁區的部分然後還有最後端的這些農民團體我們也實施了相關的冷面的補助那我們最主要的目的就是建構我們全台灣的整個冷面的物流網"},{"start":2376.863,"end":2376.883,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":2393.588,"end":2415.51,"text":"農業送的這樣的一個物流網絡的話不僅它的宅配的這些費用能夠降低到大概約原來的70%然後甚至於它可以B2B的部分就是大宗運輸也可以通過這個系統然後小農對小農的部分到宅配的部分也可以通過這個系統然後甚至於線上實體整個的物流漲額也可以利用這個系統"},{"start":2416.731,"end":2439.949,"text":"現在這個系統我想目前已經有211家的農會已經加入了那我們目標就是說至少所有的大概342家農業會裡面至少有300家的農業會能夠參加那這樣的話農業會就是我們很多物流網的一個收送的一個節點那這樣對農民未來在取貨在送貨的時候就有很大的一個幫助"},{"start":2441.403,"end":2462.26,"text":"外交的部分一直是我們努力的目標,特別是我們希望說爭取大陸與中國以外的這些高端市場所以我們除了持續去強化我們的供應鏈以外,我們也特別針對一些市場進入到一個新興國家的這些防險的一個談判或是協商的部分"},{"start":2462.78,"end":2491.581,"text":"那在113年好像113年鳳梨外銷日韓等的高飛市場已經提高的非常多大概從去年的1.5萬噸到今年的2萬噸已經提高將近四分之一那整個的一個紐西蘭的部分還有紅紅果的部分在今年的6月也已經同意我們輸出這些東西都是我們大家一起努力的一個結果那更重要就是說開拓這些市場原來的市場的時候包括美國加拿大新加坡還有"},{"start":2492.817,"end":2513.362,"text":"東南亞的越南、泰國、菲律賓等他們在整個的農產品的一個我們外銷的一個成長比例都有很明顯的一個增長特別在水果的部分那相對的美國的部分成長的將近1倍、1.5倍那在日本的部分也有成長韓國的部分、紐西蘭的部分都有逐步的一個成長"},{"start":2516.557,"end":2516.717,"text":"農業部部長"},{"start":2537.295,"end":2558.2,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":2558.72,"end":2584.443,"text":"經營主體都是做我們後端的品牌的一個行銷所以我們透過一級二轉三加酸的部分特別在二級稻本身我們也推動了一些二級稻不重量的獎勵我們希望說透過這樣子一個極端產區加上透過推動優質米的一個種植能夠讓我們的產地的稻穀的價格能夠有效的提升那我們目標就是3年之內大概讓整體的產地價格能夠提高3塊以上"},{"start":2586.394,"end":2612.753,"text":"那第二個部分在續勤生產的部分那不管是養豬場的一個升級或是續勤場的一個升級我們持續在推動那特別在養豬場的升級是有相當的一個成效包括它的一個高床的一個節水的設施然後異地批次或自動化省工的設施的導入那這個部分我想我們也會持續在做那在養勤的部分其實也有非常多的養勤場包括在113年有97場已經來申請這種"},{"start":2616.195,"end":2616.395,"text":"﹚立法院第1會議"},{"start":2637.765,"end":2647.198,"text":"在落農產業的部分來講大概大家知道就是明年就是台紐的貿易協定生效那個牛奶的部分在零關稅"},{"start":2648.953,"end":2648.973,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":2668.484,"end":2697.119,"text":"我們會有效的去引導我們的弱農做計劃性的一個生產同時透過乳牛的死亡保險來確保整個乳牛的滋素來做一個有效的調控那在消費端的部分我想我們會積極推動國產鮮乳或是國產牛奶的這些相關的標章我們希望說透過有效的這樣的一個產品的區隔來引導來擴大我們國人消費國產牛奶的一個習慣"},{"start":2698.681,"end":2709.243,"text":"最後就是另外在乳牛在淘汰以後變成肉牛產業的時候我們也會持續去升級它的相關的一個那個屠宰場 屠宰的衛生一個改善"},{"start":2713.083,"end":2728.528,"text":"在漁業的部分我們還是持續推動一些相關的科技的一個導入然後比較重要的就是有兩個部分一個部分就是我們會擴大養殖區的統籌供水的量能特別是在高頻地區有很多的漁運本身都是各自拉管"},{"start":2729.068,"end":2747.734,"text":"那各自拉管的部分像這次颱風在大莊的部分就很多管線因此而斷掉所以我們會加速整個養殖區的統籌供水的量能然後透過這樣的量能讓我們的漁業的一個水資源能夠更有效的能夠獲得那同樣的我們也會針對漁船的一個數位服務做有效的推動"},{"start":2748.414,"end":2748.675,"text":"致詳詳情報告"},{"start":2765.199,"end":2790.151,"text":"那同樣的在整個的水資源的部分吼那我們還是一如既往的就是我們針對整個灌溉蓄水的設施的一個調度我們會做有效的一個調度然後針對老舊的這些軍路我們做興善然後針對灌區外的這些過去沒有灌溉系統的部分我們也會增加這個灌溉系統的一個興建部件整個自衛型的灌溉系統"},{"start":2790.911,"end":2814.543,"text":"那特別是在整個的這些水資源去建立一個農業生產基地的過程中那也非常重要就是我們也會針對整個產品的一個品種的一個更新然後在遇到天災的時候我們也會完善整個的災前的預警然後還有一個災中的一個應變也希望說我們真的農業能夠達到真正的一個韌性化"},{"start":2815.902,"end":2822.103,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":2837.947,"end":2838.147,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2868.601,"end":2874.65,"text":"設備的這個導入來提高它的一個玻璃的耐受性那灘災的部分我想"},{"start":2875.762,"end":2902.612,"text":"特別在凱米颱風跟山陀爾颱風來這兩次的颱風其實它受災的情況是大面積的而且是品項是相對多的部分那怎麼樣讓整個的一個勘災跟後面的救災的過程中真正的達到所謂的從寬從速從險的一個目的所以我們一直積極的推動第一個就是有關於整個指數型的天災認定的標準"},{"start":2903.172,"end":2920.44,"text":"所以我們已經啟動了一個團隊真正的要去確認如果說你的天災的一個風力或是雨量達到某一個程度的時候那就不用現場看災的直接開天然災害的一個救助那同樣的我們也會透過保險的方式"},{"start":2921.06,"end":2921.541,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2936.576,"end":2936.756,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2953.74,"end":2969.396,"text":"那下一部分是有關於堆疊式的部分那整個農業的的一個支持其實我們的目的是針對農民的耕作模式跟農民的耕作方法我們去表彰去表彰他"},{"start":2970.357,"end":2991.276,"text":"農民對這片土地的守護的貢獻,我再次強調,其實我們的整個對地自給付是為了整個農業的永續,也為了表彰我們農民他的耕作的模式是符合生態的方式,符合我們糧食安全的需求,去做一個表彰。所以在整個的一個設計上面,除了一個基本的對地給付以外,"},{"start":2991.776,"end":2991.796,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":3015.898,"end":3016.078,"text":"主席"},{"start":3034.677,"end":3057.833,"text":"下一部分是針對整個的生態的一個永續的部分那最重要的就是我們擴大了相關的有機有膳的一個產交履歷的一個面積那持續的推動那相關的面積已經達到了有機有膳已經達到2萬6千多公頃那整個履歷的面積也達到10萬多公頃那這樣子的一個成績是在東南亞國家是少見的那我們希望說"},{"start":3058.553,"end":3068.941,"text":"透過這樣有機友善或是產交履歷能夠確保我們的消費端的一個農產品的一個安全以外也能夠達到環境的一個有效特別是有機友善的推動"},{"start":3070.236,"end":3094.455,"text":"那在農藥化學減量特別是在風險減半的部分那事實上農藥的使用是是必要之二因為當病毒要來的時候如果說你沒有辦法有效的防範的時候農產品都會有巨大的損失但是農藥的精準用藥就是我們想要推的還有就是整個農藥它有它的高風險跟低風險然後我們的策略就是把劇毒農藥這種高風險的農藥退場因為"},{"start":3097.577,"end":3112.908,"text":"他噴的時候不僅是對農民有害對農作物、對土地也不好所以我們針對所謂劇毒農藥的一個退場這個部分我們做得非常快速到目前為止我們比基期年減少了73.6%的部分"},{"start":3115.349,"end":3140.647,"text":"第二部分我們會持續推動相關的這些生物農藥還有生物防治的天敵還有一些免登資材的一個補助那這樣子的一個補助的方式就是說你不要用一個化學肥料的這種傷害土壤土地資源的方式用一些比較親和的比較友善的這些資材能夠同樣防範所謂的這些作物這是我想我們"},{"start":3141.087,"end":3146.562,"text":"未來在推動的那還有我們的植物診療師的部分能夠協助農民更精準的用藥的一個判斷"},{"start":3148.376,"end":3172.862,"text":"那在食農教育的部分我們還是會持續去推動最重要就是說我們希望特別是在減少就是食物浪費這個部分相關的這些培養均衡的飲食的觀念是一個食農教育最核心的一個精神然後也會推動所謂的在地的農產的一個消費的部分那特別是在整個的一個食農教育的過程中我們同步把"},{"start":3174.82,"end":3186.18,"text":"國產的可塑鹽食材導入到學校的營養午餐裡面去那到目前為止整個學校用我們的國產可塑鹽的食材已經達到98.7這是一個非常亮麗的一個成果"},{"start":3187.116,"end":3204.06,"text":"那在寵物的部分我想寵物是我們的家人的特別是我想我們到目前為止光犬和貓全台灣就有179萬隻那幾乎它的比例是在東南亞屬於比較高密度的"},{"start":3204.36,"end":3204.48,"text":"主席"},{"start":3220.035,"end":3238.903,"text":"有一個專法這個專法我們預計在年底之前會送到行政院去審議然後送到立法院來審核那整個寵物食品的專法裡面包括從食品的來源從食品的製造跟這些業者的一個管理跟上市的這些標準我們會做一個完整的規劃那另外"},{"start":3239.423,"end":3262.643,"text":"其實寵物食品是一個非常重要以外那另外怎麼樣確保動物的一個保護那特別是我們也修正了動物的一個展演的管理辦法讓動物他做必要的表演是在一個許可的範圍之內而不是變成是一個取悅於人民而已就是民眾而已的一個表演行為那另外我們也登"},{"start":3263.343,"end":3263.564,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3283.001,"end":3307.802,"text":"那在森林的部分大概分為三個部分就是包括生態的永續、淨林的永續跟產業的永續這是森林很重要的三個部分那整個生態的永續我們會持續針對國土綠網包括45個保育軸帶跟44個關注區甚至於包括OECM的部分我們都會持續的去做有效的盤點那第二部分是在淨林永續的部分那淨林永續的部分是結合我們的自然攤位"},{"start":3308.602,"end":3322.264,"text":"我們也會做獎勵的照領,我們也會做竹林的更新,然後希望透過這些獎勵照領跟竹林的更新,能夠讓我們的二氧化碳做一個有效的吸收。"},{"start":3323.846,"end":3350.076,"text":"林業還是一個非常重要的一個產業那我們怎麼樣讓這個產業持續的發展那過往我們對林業的產業輔導並不多但是這幾年來其實我們針對林產業的部分特別是我們輔導他成立為農合作社然後提供一些比較大型的機具讓他去採伐然後也公告了一些林下經濟然後希望說在執林的過程中你可以透過林下經濟得到一些收入"},{"start":3351.096,"end":3351.537,"text":"彭博文議員"},{"start":3359.912,"end":3382.41,"text":"那後續的引導的過程包括我們整個的科技的引導的部分我們也會持續的落實那還有一個部分就是剩餘制裁的部分剩餘制裁是大家所關切的也是淨零碳白裡面一個非常重要的一個手段那到目前為止包括一些用廢胎公包的部分還有一些隔外品的部分還有牡蠣殼的部分我們都有效的把它變成一個再利用的一個商品"},{"start":3383.01,"end":3409.683,"text":"那特別在鳳梨的這些全果利用的部分包括鳳梨皮的這些纖維的利用包括鳳梨酵素的部分這個部分我們也有相關的一些業者開始投入一些相關的這些場域那銀河灣的部分我想我們也會針對銀河灣的部分有些剩餘資產變成燃料棒的部分也會持續的推動最後一部分是有關於信吾農村的部分那信吾農村的部分大概"},{"start":3410.816,"end":3439.856,"text":"一個非常重要的概念就是我們會發展未來農業我們會發展以農村為發展中心的整個農業的一個體系農村不再是一個獨立生產的那農村裡面不只是生產農村我們更希望導入更多的多元的一個產業然後我們更希望能夠建構農村的一個支持的服務系統那來鼓勵我們的青年農民來回鄉這個部分我想這是我們下一階段農業部門一個非常重要的一個施政的一個目標"},{"start":3441.137,"end":3462.833,"text":"在這裡面特別是在整個農業的支持系統裡面綠色照顧就變了一個非常重要的它是建構去支持農村的一個非常重要的支持系統所以我們過去幾年我們一直在推動整個農村社區的一個從綠飲食綠療育綠陪伴到綠場域這四個環節裡面我們都希望透過這樣的一個"},{"start":3465.136,"end":3466.638,"text":"最後我想跟各位說明"},{"start":3479.008,"end":3502.892,"text":"讓臺灣農業持續成為一個永續而且韌性的一個產業讓我們農民成為一個高度專業的職業這是我在520的時候向外界宣示的我農業部未來的很多資源投入會透過我們的四大施政的策略手段包括智慧、韌性、永續、安心來達到我們上述的目標那也謝謝委員給我們大力的支持跟指正謝謝"},{"start":3508.907,"end":3536.992,"text":"謝謝農業部陳部長的報告今天是這個農業部的業務報告我看這個應該是各個師各個處各個署的署長都在親自列席我看八個師六個處七個署一個中心都有由師處署長列席農經署由副署長出席這個也沒有請假"},{"start":3538.157,"end":3538.637,"text":"請問在場的委員請問上次會議事錄有錯誤"},{"start":3568.888,"end":3584.194,"text":"沒有 那我們就一速度確定來 我們現在要進行詢問 委員詢問之前願意做幾點宣告 每位委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘 BS等於延長2分鐘 非本會委員4分鐘"},{"start":3588.699,"end":3613.852,"text":"當時我必須還是要跟大家拜託一下為了讓會議能夠順利進行以及每位委員發言事件的公平性以及不要影響到下一位委員發言的權益在各位委員諮詢時間結束之後主席會立即請諮詢委員停止諮詢也讓下一位委員能夠接下來諮詢請各位委員能夠配合感謝我們在上午10點"},{"start":3616.298,"end":3626.85,"text":"30分 截止法院登記首先 請登記第一位 請您代話委員好 主席有請部長請陳部長"},{"start":3634.416,"end":3640.838,"text":"部長 本席想針對我們高雄市連兩次風災 凱米颱風跟山頭颱風我們的農災損目前兩個颱風加起來都多達4億5千萬以上這個還可能在相關的數目還在累積當中所以對於我們在災害補助的"},{"start":3658.562,"end":3658.722,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3675.874,"end":3703.061,"text":"好那這個東西我要問的是在我們這兩次颱風在高雄市所提出來的方案您這個直接適不適用好在我們光是以三頭而來講這個氣象中央氣象署就已經講了我們已經風速達到14級甚至我們高雄都有達到15級按照農業天然災害救助辦法就以我翻石流來講最大的震數是每秒41.5"},{"start":3705.021,"end":3705.641,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3728.746,"end":3743.679,"text":"這樣就好了呢?還是還有什麼作業?所以請你明確定義什麼叫做免勘災?我跟委員說明齁,就是當一個農業,農品項要做勘災公告的時候,第一個要打20%,那"},{"start":3746.744,"end":3747.404,"text":"有啊,我們針頭就有啦"},{"start":3774.093,"end":3792.809,"text":"沒有 所以有一些品項他有公告的 風速達到某個層級 雨量達到某個層級就可以公告我只問這次的山陀而颱風重創高雄中央計像署已經有講他已經14級以上了那這樣的標準我還要啟動是否可能夠符合點要看錯誤要看錯誤"},{"start":3794.751,"end":3795.071,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3813.154,"end":3827.618,"text":"要不要再下去看?還是就直接報上你就合併了?這叫做免勘渣呀!不是,我跟委員報告齁就是當整個要達到免勘渣的一個程度就是縣政府會報上來對,我們報上來啦對,然後在報上來的時候我們會開專家會議去確認"},{"start":3831.9,"end":3843.367,"text":"你確認所以是要下去再勘測一次?不是,我們跟縣市政府有協調,縣市政府要報這個免勘測的時候其實他已經同時有邀請了我們的改良場所跟我們農糧署去現場看了,所以在現場看了以後"},{"start":3848.83,"end":3855.254,"text":"市政府已經看我簡報的第4頁我瞭解我非常瞭解那你到底什麼時候合我合你這個程序市政府都照著做了嘛我知道那你合不合呢我們會合我們會經過專家會議會議去確認你會去合專家會議是書面審嗎"},{"start":3865.544,"end":3887.718,"text":"專家會議就是不會去現場看我們會針對那專家會什麼時候核實核定你告訴我就好你證據我不管了既然你只要不下去會刊只做書面審那你什麼時候核定文收到之後核實核定我想我們會盡快盡快是什麼一個禮拜兩個禮拜三個禮拜四個禮拜三天內核定這是你的答覆嗎文收到三天內核定是嗎"},{"start":3893.342,"end":3912.068,"text":"昨天我們是昨天下午收到我想我們明天之前一定會核定快的話今天我們也希望說今天越快越好昨天收到了所以今天就會核定了我們今天會開專家會議專家會議完了以後還要經過行政人員今天本期下午就有會刊就在我們大寮這邊那我就把你這個好消息帶下去那你們也有派員"},{"start":3912.628,"end":3912.888,"text":"施政委員"},{"start":3933.267,"end":3957.861,"text":"基本上針對這個案子如果他在一個適當的時間沒辦法播種他原來是申請是大豆的後來他做修正我們原來他是同意的所以是同意我們這個修根這個契作大作無法再播了對但是針對如果是種大豆我們希望他是修根直接是根梨而不去做田青因為田青跟大豆主要屬於豆科的如果"},{"start":3958.701,"end":3974.196,"text":"大豆種不好田青也會管理不好所以你認為我大了這個你直接給我講明你既然有那麼多的指導所以在休耕當中我們是要改做種植田青的對地我們是希望他休耕我們會再跟他溝通希望他做休耕就好不需要就直接分耕就可以領"},{"start":3975.117,"end":3994.882,"text":"好那在餘溫的部分啊光是我們三坨颱風我們在我的選區林園就超過到昨天喔都還沒有完全復電喔都有超過4天5天6天喔看這個這個復電的狀態餘溫打水機無法運作他只要30秒整個整個池就會死光了"},{"start":3995.342,"end":4000.004,"text":"所以在這個餘溫的這個產種所以本席認為救急也要救競爭力不只農漁產損失的補助要從寬從優從速再來針對設施受損你們現在的天然障礙只針對農產品但是沒有針對設施受損"},{"start":4016.63,"end":4031.681,"text":"所以本席建議就是在你的天然災害當中應該納入設施的受損這叫做在就競爭力啊或者你農產品補助之後像現在的風災那麼大我餘溫也翻的公寮也翻了這個農寮也翻了然後我設備進水了那你只補助我農產品的補助"},{"start":4039.207,"end":4066.263,"text":"那設備呢?那個不是競爭力嗎?那個還是人民很從政的負擔欸整個設施都飛走了那你說這個應不應該這是概念的這是您對於這件事情你這邊要做一個這個 允諾這個 救急也要救競爭力設施也應該要納入天然災害的這個設備當中的一個救治項目包括溫網溫網溫網室"},{"start":4069.434,"end":4090.094,"text":"您認不認同?如果你認同就要啟動相關的修改了在現在的規範裡面其實我們都有相關的這些救助設置設備也有補助的部分沒有你們在天然災沒有你是在相關的經常門或者計畫競爭計畫當中有所以說部長天然災救助有啦有啦只要天然災有"},{"start":4092.401,"end":4093.422,"text":"天然災害辦法當中有沒有補助設施受損?"},{"start":4112.984,"end":4142.308,"text":"有有報告委員有所以我們現在我林園的那個餘溫啊那個鋤電都破了啊石壁都破了啊餘溫沒有我我我們要講好齁第一個齁停電的過程中齁發電機我們有我們發電機平常就有在補助了所以他的發電系統是養殖業必要好來我們時間到了所以事實上是沒有請你修改你的天然災害設施辦法好既然現在沒有我現在就希望這些設施都能夠申請優惠貸款可不可以"},{"start":4143.309,"end":4143.669,"text":"邱毅英委員"},{"start":4175.629,"end":4176.031,"text":"請農業部陳部長"},{"start":4186.542,"end":4212.533,"text":"部長早部長我想這一次的颱風啊山陀的颱風對於高雄造成很大的影響那我們應該經濟委員會很多委員都來自高雄部長再讓您看一下這個是這一次風災所造成的溫網市的損害現在大概我們的棗子木瓜都是在溫網市裡頭種植那這一次棗子的受災是很嚴重的"},{"start":4214.054,"end":4241.77,"text":"部長我要請您回答一下就原來我們有一個在凱米颱風的溫王市的設備補助這個申請的日期是到9月30號那不到兩個月的時間又來了一個山陀而這次的風又更大高達17級所以這次很多的溫王市又被吹走了能不能把原來的這個9月30號的申請截止日期往後再延把山陀而颱風所造成的損害把它納進去"},{"start":4242.771,"end":4269.085,"text":"有沒有可能在這部分對農民有一些幫助我想非常謝謝委員：對這個瘟瘡是本身的一個受害的一個補助的一個申請期限的延長的一個關心那我們內部其實也當時在勘栽的時候就有討論到這個問題就是說因為凱米颱風跟山頭颱風它距離非常近那凱米颱風山頭颱風特別是瘋的部分它的它的受損更嚴重所以我們原則上我們會把兩個"},{"start":4270.967,"end":4296.163,"text":"臺風這麼近的臺風的申請期限同步延長到年底所以換句話說你們是不是會再趕快發一個公文你原來是到9月30號所以你現在會把整個申請的期限延長到年底對就是凱米臺風本來到9月30號我們會延長到12月31號然後這次的三朵臺風的話也是同步到12月底所以這個公文是今天可以我想今天應該就可以把它發出去"},{"start":4297.523,"end":4316.973,"text":"來部長這個要再讓您看一下當然這個我們剛剛講到的這個山陀螺的農損這個是我去看整個蜜棗開花的情形他的花已經不會長輝了我們台語說不會長輝昨天這個農糧署的副署長也親自我們到了田區去看了"},{"start":4317.873,"end":4344.195,"text":"大家我想這個你們的專家會議應該也不太需要開啦應該很清楚的都知道這個颱風對於蜜棗對於芭樂所造成的影響這是芭樂樹你有沒有看過這樣倒一整排的芭樂樹還有斷成三節的這是我們去現場看到的芭樂樹就長這樣這個是大寮這一次受風很嚴重的是在大寮陵園地區"},{"start":4345.436,"end":4373.661,"text":"大寮的香蕉全部倒一片我右手邊這一張圖是香瓜在阿聯種植的香瓜全部泡水全部爛掉這個是林園的養殖業者因為晴電所造成他們養殖的石斑魚等等各式的魚類養殖的魚類全部死亡的狀況所以部長我們要跟大家要跟您爭取就是說剛剛一直在講所謂的全品項"},{"start":4374.801,"end":4376.042,"text":"我想非常謝謝那個委員的一個提示"},{"start":4402.105,"end":4402.506,"text":"陳其邁市長已經去看看3次"},{"start":4417.765,"end":4418.386,"text":"全品向免災這件事情應該是"},{"start":4443.487,"end":4448.452,"text":"大家是可以達成共識的嗎?你同意我的看法嗎?那你們現在知道受災比較嚴重的其實就不用限刊了嗎?"},{"start":4463.226,"end":4466.068,"text":"部長如果是這樣的話我覺得也要趕快通令各縣市政府的各區公所的農業課因為農民現在已經急著在整理田地"},{"start":4487.886,"end":4512.698,"text":"所以他有可能已經開始在清除這一些枯枝阿什麼的不要到時候這個農業課的人去看又說你這個田很乾淨阿這個不像有受損的樣子阿其實人家都已經整理完了反而他的看待是不可準的我覺得這個東西可能要先講啦要先提醒各縣市政府農政單位這個可能我也會去幫忙說啦不過我們剛剛一直在講齁"},{"start":4514.6,"end":4522.649,"text":"這個不管是全品項不管是不是免限刊不管是怎麼樣的災損補助都需要錢嘛你現在農委會就"},{"start":4524.261,"end":4545.358,"text":"你今年還有錢對不對現在還有一點錢明年的錢在哪裡你的公務預算明年農委會的公務預算有1692億基金有747億錢賺有42億我剛剛稍微整理一下我們比較關心的大型計畫農田水利的這個永續發展計畫50.24億"},{"start":4547.68,"end":4548.281,"text":"這些全部都沒有欸"},{"start":4562.937,"end":4580.106,"text":"總預算現在都沒有欸那我們現在在講您剛剛講的這一本我就很用心啊所有農業要做的事情都在這裡啊可是這個都要錢欸你每一項計畫都要錢欸沒有半毛錢怎麼辦啊我現在在跟你講說全品向全民看在什麼設備要補助要怎麼樣照顧農民這每一樣每一句話都要錢欸部長"},{"start":4587.318,"end":4603.005,"text":"我想跟委員報告齁就是我們也盤點了齁當如果說總預算沒有辦法如期過順利通過的時候那針對新興的新政的計畫總共有414億那其中非常重要的是農水路的部分"},{"start":4603.285,"end":4604.346,"text":"所以平常口口聲聲說要照顧農民的這些藍白的委員們"},{"start":4627.199,"end":4641.965,"text":"您剛剛講的這些東西應該要讓他們很清楚的知道尤其來自農業縣市的委員們如果這些總預算不能過的話嘴巴一直講愛農民要照顧農民都是假的啦這個我還是期待我們剛剛講這麼多的補助"},{"start":4643.626,"end":4644.286,"text":"我們面對到野生動物的時候"},{"start":4667.783,"end":4680.436,"text":"這個應該就歸農業部管了吧歸農業跟林業保育署管了嘛要怎麼教導民眾我們發現在林保署的時間到了喔再給我一分鐘好不好我很快講完"},{"start":4683.53,"end":4705.158,"text":"在林保署的網站上完全沒有教導比如說遇到熊應該怎麼處理 沒有日本的網站環境省他有告訴你遇到熊你應該怎麼處理遇到蛇要怎麼處理 農業部的依報有幾個圖卡但是林業署的防蛇手冊要在很裡面的歷史訊息裡頭才找得到遇到虎頭蜂要怎麼處理"},{"start":4706.819,"end":4734.564,"text":"台灣跟日本的處理方式是完全不一樣喔日本是教大家隨身帶小瓶的殺蟲劑可是台灣說不行用殺蟲劑喔所以部長我現在跟你講就是說遇到在野外遇到這一種動物的攻擊野生動物的攻擊的時候應該怎麼求生是不是能夠請林業署趕快去研擬至少在我們的網站裡頭圖卡影音等等都應該讓民眾有一個非常正確的教育知識好不好"},{"start":4735.084,"end":4749.91,"text":"我們會馬上做,把這整個做一個宣導,變成一個集中式的,放在一個專區,讓大家來看。謝謝,謝謝。好,謝謝球營委員。部長請回座。下一位是李玉玲委員。"},{"start":4761.595,"end":4762.276,"text":"請農業部陳部長李委員長"},{"start":4773.146,"end":4799.421,"text":"我們114年的預算是戰不列案所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業這個是要先跟部長講清楚的我要跟委員說明喔 延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫"},{"start":4802.944,"end":4803.104,"text":"委員會理念："},{"start":4825.439,"end":4836.386,"text":"部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下就是由於因為我們氣候的變遷跟情流感的這個影響在2022年到2023年的時候"},{"start":4855.859,"end":4873.329,"text":"進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮"},{"start":4875.73,"end":4892.019,"text":"當時發生的就是說超私這個資本額只有50萬的藝人公司就可以拿到1.75億的這個補助在這種情形之下超私他並沒有辦法當時是他成立的時間是9月份"},{"start":4892.799,"end":4917.655,"text":"可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航"},{"start":4919.11,"end":4946.38,"text":"不過我想跟委員說明齁您剛才所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立"},{"start":4947.8,"end":4976.13,"text":"現在檢調單位都在查了我是請部長不要再護航如果確實的話請你們就要嚴辦你還負起應該有的責任我非常慎重的跟委員說明齁我們也是主動送請檢調的如果我們也儘速希望檢調儘速釐清如果有不法的我絕對不會寬戴你不要再為他背書了然後相對的就是說如果沒有什麼問題的話我也希望說還給我們同仁一個清白跟社會大眾一個一個"},{"start":4976.99,"end":4998.587,"text":"公開的一個真相 也要 如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道 要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是 因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元 到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元 這個是不是有圖列清醒 為什麼一個3到5月 一個是8到11月"},{"start":4999.602,"end":5015.883,"text":"不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實剪掉再調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些"},{"start":5017.185,"end":5041.332,"text":"你當時這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了這沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我跟你講3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形"},{"start":5042.432,"end":5048.636,"text":"本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求"},{"start":5069.108,"end":5078.759,"text":"民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去想會去購買的這整體的這種需求量你們都沒有空管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢"},{"start":5079.97,"end":5105.253,"text":"我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫之責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限捏"},{"start":5106.414,"end":5135.774,"text":"所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個我跟委員說明齁其實在雞蛋的過程中我們也自我檢討了裡面有非常多的我們可以改進的空間跟檢討的空間特別在行政上面在預測上面所以我們未來會針對這樣的一個部分如果在缺蛋的時候你們必須要檢討啦如果這件事情真的是有缺失的話你們就應該負起這個責任啦好不好"},{"start":5140.358,"end":5161.617,"text":"國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化"},{"start":5162.489,"end":5180.809,"text":"但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變"},{"start":5182.211,"end":5184.614,"text":"這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等"},{"start":5197.313,"end":5225.488,"text":"這些都未來國家整體規劃上會有所變動為什麼因為我們的桃竹苗大溪谷計劃裡面也需要很多的產業用地在這用地上跟地方政府沒有整體的規劃跟我們行政部門橫向的溝通下這個用地上會有很多的衝突性為什麼因為你重劃你變更你設定國土計劃下去的話未來要再做變更是不可能的會很難去做這個調整的所以才說希望"},{"start":5226.508,"end":5229.309,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會第4次全體委員會第4次全體委員會第4次全體委員會"},{"start":5256.574,"end":5281.708,"text":"我跟委員說明,我還是說一句,就是我們的農業的堆積是幾乎是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆積農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣政府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值,就是農業要多少,農業要多少"},{"start":5282.168,"end":5282.348,"text":"李懿琳委員"},{"start":5313.389,"end":5316.27,"text":"主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":5333.766,"end":5350.984,"text":"部長最近這幾個月以來我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地化社的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助可以請部長具體的回答嗎"},{"start":5352.546,"end":5376.373,"text":"我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在"},{"start":5377.213,"end":5395.809,"text":"不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括"},{"start":5396.049,"end":5396.249,"text":"內容大概分為三個區塊"},{"start":5423.932,"end":5424.032,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5448.536,"end":5451.997,"text":"我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把他公諸於民呢不是我想齁"},{"start":5472.625,"end":5494.658,"text":"我們初步的規劃出來了然後接下來我們會針對不同的利害關係這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個挹注下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎?我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響"},{"start":5495.618,"end":5497.54,"text":"我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉士芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對"},{"start":5510.911,"end":5523.907,"text":"但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路"},{"start":5527.151,"end":5534.622,"text":"我講 劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度 我們經常在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別"},{"start":5542.734,"end":5551.938,"text":"到底在哪裡?你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農藝啦我想要農餓因為農藝的限制多我問你如果現在變農餓你如果假設變了農餓結果他告訴你說毛毛毛毛不住只有農藝能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢?"},{"start":5563.562,"end":5577.598,"text":"所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對立地給付跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有 我不會說他延期我就不處理了"},{"start":5578.759,"end":5579.059,"text":"我想我們"},{"start":5608.14,"end":5610.602,"text":"這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的"},{"start":5624.053,"end":5628.176,"text":"立法院通過的決議因為有扯到費用的問題我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊"},{"start":5645.726,"end":5674.254,"text":"你的可能讓打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨"},{"start":5675.795,"end":5699.711,"text":"溫飽的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛"},{"start":5702.582,"end":5718.354,"text":"我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人"},{"start":5719.255,"end":5724.016,"text":"我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛是看到績效只是看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望我告訴市長能夠來處理部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的"},{"start":5747.242,"end":5775.739,"text":"但是我希望說我們目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法漲一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會漲一塊嗎"},{"start":5777.922,"end":5799.227,"text":"我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀"},{"start":5800.518,"end":5812.632,"text":"我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這個公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢"},{"start":5816.125,"end":5833.233,"text":"這絕對不是為了我們的一個供糧的部分因為供糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在這個"},{"start":5835.894,"end":5845.319,"text":"科技師這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們會後再提供給委員好謝謝謝謝張家俊委員謝謝來部長請回座下位執行請張啟凱委員"},{"start":5879.681,"end":5894.006,"text":"來請阿陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好 柏地發行原蓄鋼張家俊張委員很重要對農民的供糧這個收購"},{"start":5895.984,"end":5913.994,"text":"我先提醒一個非常重要的原則第一個面對農民是要照顧的是要幫忙的不要站在農民的對立面而且你不要高高在上工人收購裡面還牽扯到一個很重要的問題這是立法院表決通過的請你要尊重法治好不好"},{"start":5915.165,"end":5934.601,"text":"我再提醒一次不要站在農民的對立面而且不要高高在上而且請你尊重法治你剛講的意思好像是只有你一個人對剛剛提了阿這是立法院通過的阿你本來就應該要編阿好不好你再回想一下這個事情我跟你講這幾天還會再協調嘛對不對卓議員長跟這個"},{"start":5938.892,"end":5955.781,"text":"行政院跟立法院會協調我希望不要卡在你一個人身上昨天財政部長跟主計長來 他們也說尊重農業部的這個決定我希望你好好再想一下 農民現在是生計的問題 13年沒有條了你就說啊 你賺這裡就不夠 你要拋光現在是他們溫飽的問題 好不好 你要去實驗"},{"start":5962.085,"end":5971.39,"text":"這個絕對不是實驗喔 這個絕對不是實驗你五塊錢加了 美工機五塊錢加了你先去執行看你的理想能不能達得到可是農民很清楚講 你的工薪我才聽不到啦"},{"start":5972.961,"end":5973.161,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5994.278,"end":6020.942,"text":"就做阿 並行去做阿好不好 這個事情我講到這邊反正等著回去解決問題沒有沒有 來 我有沒有比較重要的事情那個北檢北檢已經約談了去搜索的農業部嘛 對不對中央續產會這個超級不可思議的超思案北檢說不排除要約談陳其中跟林松賢我定你也是被告之一嘛 對不對"},{"start":6022.561,"end":6037.031,"text":"你被約談了沒有我是看到媒體說我是被告我是看到媒體我沒有接到任何的訊息我也沒有被約談古尼古尼是很多人去安寧申告當然最主要他們認為要找決策者嘛所以最主要控告對象"},{"start":6038.399,"end":6055.079,"text":"是陳其中跟林松賢嘛那你也被列在裡面你說到目前為止沒有約談過你們沒有沒有約談那重點就是啊人民要的很簡單嘛就兩個嘛一個真相嘛一個就是責任嘛所以才會有所謂的別檢要找出這個決策者那決策者是誰"},{"start":6055.78,"end":6071.878,"text":"我想檢調單位在相關的雞蛋的部分已經在做專案調查而且是我們主動移情檢調單位來調查的那我們也相信檢調單位的公平跟他的司法的一個公平性所以我們也希望檢調能夠儘速的能夠釐清相關的案情"},{"start":6073.554,"end":6076.215,"text":"我沒有說大家一起做決策我是說當時在雞蛋價格民間的價格國內的價格在迅速攀升的過程中"},{"start":6091.721,"end":6118.614,"text":"全世界的侵入感大爆發的過程中必須要做一些緊急的進口那緊急的進口裡面相關的這些討論大家都有一些討論跟參與那最後的決策是我現在提醒的是什麼現在人民不滿了人民要的真相是什麼為什麼是一個50萬資本額的超市那誰做決策讓他承包這麼大的生意啊"},{"start":6119.537,"end":6142.411,"text":"你不覺得差不可思議嗎?我相信不是你做決策嘛!所以人民才在問啊!北檢才要查啊!這個沒有陳其中、林聰賢,誰能夠做這個決策?阿你們這政府機關?你有公文啊?誰做這個覺醒了?誰把這個生意交給了超市?這是什麼?白紙黑字啊!那為什麼合約都沒簽?當立議領理委員不是在問嗎?"},{"start":6144.048,"end":6157.002,"text":"超支誕生的時間是前年的9月這個備委的凱西凱西你們就開始要讓他進蛋了誰敢做這個決策我相信不是你嘛那比你大的是誰所以現在出現說要約談嘛"},{"start":6159.866,"end":6175.817,"text":"所以檢調單位正在調查,所以我想委員是不是可以讓這個議題由檢調單位來查因為相關的委員要資料的時候,讓我們的畜牧師疲於奔命在整理這些資料,那畜牧師有非常多的工作要去做"},{"start":6176.988,"end":6193.302,"text":"好啦對當然勿妄勿縱啦我現在只要提醒你人民就是要真相對不對然後別檢現在趕快約談相關的人像你自己不要檢進去你所謂的一起沒有包括你現在人民要的是說那麼離譜的狀況是誰做的決策幫我把錢搬出去啊公文上面不用蓋章嗎"},{"start":6195.291,"end":6220.996,"text":"這個公文都要調嘛 調公文嘛 約該約的人嘛 這個會有真相的啦好不好 我們看北檢的速度在加快 我們現在只要問 監察院也做了糾正案了 北檢開始約談了 農業部也要有一些動作 自己要有一些檢討我們真的糾正案 我們已經有內部的一個檢討的新的作為出來我另外問你一個重要的事情你答應我的事情 六月二月六十八我總質詢的時候"},{"start":6224.11,"end":6245.59,"text":"左院長跟你對本席做了承諾也是對立法院的承諾那時候五月份的時候你們把以前即將到期的液氮倒出來那時候要倒多少兩千兩百多萬顆我在立法院的院會裡面清清楚楚問你跟院長左院長跟你是跟我保證的喔"},{"start":6248.001,"end":6257.358,"text":"馬上終止對不對後續還有停下來的還有的停下來不要倒彈結果你為什麼你們在議員會做的這個決定你為什麼在8月27號你繼續倒彈勒"},{"start":6261.776,"end":6284.377,"text":"我想可能委員誤會當時在質詢的時候那時候委員特別提到當時的單價國內的單價已經這麼低了不希望說續產會在國內的單價這麼低的過程中持續的把過去的庫存蛋釋出那我們也同意說在這個階段我們暫停把這些庫存蛋釋出部長我有一段話跟你聽"},{"start":6288.314,"end":6301.97,"text":"陳部長回答說,如果國內的彈供應市場的需求是夠的話,我們就不會釋出。主委長講得更清楚啊,民生為重,不要破壞了產需的這個平衡,要照顧到我們的彈籠,所以他當場"},{"start":6303.131,"end":6309.535,"text":"一方面你是打臉的周榮泰我跟你講一方面你為什麼要做這個事情你當初我問的時候那時候產地價的這個美台金是27.5對不對你知道你到這個8月份的時候價格往下掉欸26.5欸"},{"start":6327.674,"end":6353.584,"text":"你這不是顧一個破壞的產銷這個平衡你是完全不顧彈籠這個生死嗎我想喔 基本上我們這些加工彈的部分會在彈價回升的時候適度的去釋出現在有回升嗎沒有 現在就掉了 問題發生 部長 部長第一個有白色黑字 第二個清清楚楚現在還是在掉的這個狀況之下你倒彈已經不對了 好 這是一個問題"},{"start":6355.421,"end":6362.937,"text":"你不只打你的行政院長我跟你講這個事情你要給我一個清楚講甚至已經藐視國會了你答應的事情為什麼沒有這樣做第二個在牽扯到食安的問題"},{"start":6364.517,"end":6388.814,"text":"你說不能,為什麼我要講第三點?我說要你回去清查一下你的蛋有沒有過期,對不對?你清查了嗎?清啊清查了?清啊那現在有多少蛋是過期的?現在庫存裡面總共有一千一百四十八萬顆裡面還有一千一百四十多萬顆?對,然後其中齁,就是最慢的蛋粉,因為我上次也說了加工蛋有不同的蛋粉的話可以到那個2025年的9月14才到期"},{"start":6392.039,"end":6392.459,"text":"法院執行長"},{"start":6409.35,"end":6409.651,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":6425.103,"end":6442.023,"text":"你認為他沒有問題嗎?對不對?我想我們不必要用這樣的方式去證明他的執行委員我想整個雞蛋變成加工蛋的時候一定的規範這個規範就是食藥署都跟你講就是一年阿你要推翻食藥署的講法要推翻你之前中央市長會講法他是根據不同的製程"},{"start":6444.906,"end":6445.286,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6463.634,"end":6491.267,"text":"發言時間已經到了已經超過三分鐘了已經超過三分鐘了我們在監督政府而且牽扯到人民的食安為什麼如果你每次都會沒有馬上好那個主席就是一個答案嘛你我說四次會一個禮拜內辦你不辦你的方法是什麼嘛你的方法是什麼我們可以把我們現在庫存的這些標示跟他的規格品由食藥組來確認是不是符合他的規範好那你公佈給大家看好不好一個禮拜內公佈可以嗎部長"},{"start":6493.137,"end":6498.663,"text":"我們要聯絡食藥署來確認嘛!現在台北市的位置都在查了嘛!你們盡快公佈!一個禮拜內公佈!"},{"start":6514.346,"end":6515.406,"text":"主席好我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":6548.125,"end":6561.775,"text":"部長好我想說委員在質詢的時候其實很多需要都需要有一個很具體的部分我發問一下剛剛張琦海委員他問的那問題這個問題多久你可以給一個答案不只給張琦海委員也要給本席給我們經濟委員會的所有的委員"},{"start":6562.625,"end":6589.888,"text":"我想整個雞蛋在加工的過程中一定是符合相關的規範嘛那剛才委員質詢說他的資訊是只有一年嘛所有東西就只有一年那我的回應是根據不同的加工的產品會有不同的期限嘛那最好的方式就是由食藥署來確認我們的所以他剛剛有要求時間他需要一個禮拜給答案然後你說不能你沒有直接回應他你可以具體回應一下大概多久時間可以給出這個答案我想"},{"start":6590.819,"end":6603.485,"text":"我們會約食藥署約食藥署的時間食藥署看過以後我3天之內給答案食藥署看過之後3天給答案因為食藥署約的時候他不一定如期嘛那食藥署這邊確定時間之後也跟"},{"start":6606.627,"end":6629.305,"text":"我們直接說明一下好不好不要用食藥署這邊來那個推託後面的時間我們會正式請他們那個請區長會請那個食藥署來協助來確認部長因為國有林地出租是我們農業部林業署的業務嘛那租金的計算的法律依據是什麼這個是不是可以請我們林保署的署長"},{"start":6632.302,"end":6652.811,"text":"報告委員 那我們租金的計算是依照一般的那個正常的土地交易價格8%這是上限8%上限其實是我們礦業法上面的規定的部分那因為針對整個國有非公用不動產租賃那個作業程序其實財政部有一個很清楚的一個訂定應該沒有問題所以你剛剛提到8%的部分其實是礦業法第54條的一個規定"},{"start":6657.393,"end":6675.488,"text":"本席要問的部分是從民國108年開始這是我們林務署這邊針對國有林地出租工礦業用地使用的部分加計所謂的一個生態系服務價值請問這個生態系服務價值它的收費的法律依據是什麼"},{"start":6676.827,"end":6692.368,"text":"跟委員報告齁,我們租給礦業用者,大家都知道是採礦,採礦他不只是,他不像一般租地,他會去破壞原本的現況,所以我們來﹖理解,所以生態系服務價值﹖是﹖法律依據是什麼?"},{"start":6693.678,"end":6707.313,"text":"這個就是依照各土地管理機關,針對他的土地出租,他可以有一個給予其業務執掌,對這個...這個...處長你在胡說齁,其實我在想說,剛剛我一開始在問說,就是..."},{"start":6708.738,"end":6730.338,"text":"國有林地出租很清楚你講到這個部分按照財政部國有非公用不動產租賃作業程序這裏面當中那個我們礦業法裏面的一個規定8%可是裏面並沒有生態系服務價值這樣子的一個字眼的一個收費這個部分土地管理機關本來就有這樣的權責可以針對他土地的租用可以做這樣的認定這個在"},{"start":6731.559,"end":6732.419,"text":"因為按照憲法第19條租稅法定原則"},{"start":6759.764,"end":6779.785,"text":"你沒有法律依據的租稅或規費是不是不能收的你剛剛提到那個部分的時候你之後你再給本席一個資料因為我們目前看起來的時候呢針對所謂的生態系服務價值因為它的費用其實非常的高那它現在你的意思說它並不租金裡面去使用對不對然後你說這租金還不到8%是這個意思嗎"},{"start":6782.627,"end":6806.798,"text":"對 它並沒有超過那個所謂8%的這個OK 那我們到時候我們來計算一下因為按照本席所掌握的一個資料的時候呢如果說這個部分併入租金的部分它其實是會超過8%那我們到時候我們來衡量一下因為所有的一個相關的土地它有一個相關的標準那針對這部分之後準備充分的資料我們來本辦公室做一個很詳細的討論好 謝謝署長"},{"start":6809.779,"end":6834.79,"text":"那我想接下來我想問一個有關於就是明年紐西蘭那個鮮乳藥進口的問題針對這個部分我們農業部應該也有一些因應的措施我有看到那個部長報告裡面有說建構那個弱農產業戀良好的環境對不對那針對這個部分的時候我想請教一下對於鮮乳定義的部分我們農業部這邊跟"},{"start":6837.911,"end":6861.161,"text":"衛福部那邊是不是已經溝通好了鮮乳的標示定義要怎麼去做處理衛福部還要開會我們的立場一直很一致就是針對現在目前國外進口的鮮乳有90天的這個期限的部分我們是比較傾向於是用長效乳的部分去處理而且我們也正式行文給衛福部了"},{"start":6861.741,"end":6875.119,"text":"那衛部會開相關的專家的會議因為不只是國內的他也可能考慮到國外進口的貿易但是他最後還沒有做決定因為他們有不同的意見部長所以我們希望你這邊能夠很堅持"},{"start":6877.662,"end":6898.554,"text":"因為如果農業對於鮮乳這兩個字眼就像我一般消費者在認定的我們覺得鮮乳就是很新鮮的你如果說變成是一個保守乳長效乳這個狀態來講對我們來說它就不是鮮乳所以我們像農業部這邊能夠真正的去堅持那我要特別提到是因為每次比方說我們農業有碰到所有的問題的時候各部會其實都會來幫忙"},{"start":6903.275,"end":6925.141,"text":"針對牛乳進口的部分的時候教育部現在在做斑斑喝鮮奶這件事情我想部長一定也知道對不對可是我們知道斑斑喝鮮奶這個部分某個部分是要解決臺灣弱農業面臨這個挑戰所產生的一個問題可是目前我們統計出來的狀態大家都還是要喝薄酒乳"},{"start":6926.121,"end":6934.689,"text":"百分之七十五以上都是要訂購喝飽酒乳我們新竹市大概有將近快要九成都是喝飽酒乳為什麼?因為大家覺得鮮乳這邊"},{"start":6936.226,"end":6955.975,"text":"冷戀進到校園門口可以到校園裡面內部的時候大家會擔心所以說針對這個部分我們農業部會不會有更精實或者更積極的一個做法能夠真正來配合教育部他們在講斑斑喝鮮乳的時候然後我們是真的能夠解決弱農業的問題的"},{"start":6958.517,"end":6975.951,"text":"我跟委員說明,第一個就是鮮乳跟包酒乳的營養價值都是一樣的,只是它的製程不一樣。那第二個就是說,學校端我們統計出來的現在大概7成5左右是包酒乳,大概2成2是鮮乳,那其他的可能是豆漿或其他的。"},{"start":6977.331,"end":6977.471,"text":"主席"},{"start":7006.096,"end":7032.413,"text":"所以南部跟東部喝鮮奶的比例稍高中部跟北部喝鮮奶的比例低嘛所以針對這個部分的時候我們希望農業部這邊也更積極一點去做那教團提出鮮乳卷因為真的喝鮮奶對我們的弱農產業才會真正有具體的一個幫助如果是薄酒乳的時候進口也可以用薄酒乳所以我在希望說針對鮮奶這個部分那我們農業部這邊能夠有更積極的一個做法"},{"start":7034.835,"end":7041.209,"text":"我跟委員說明我真的感謝包括洛榮包括盧桑包括學校老師共同來協助來推動這個"},{"start":7043.323,"end":7068.064,"text":"先乳進學校全世界有一個世界學校牛奶日這個是大家一起希望說為學童加蓋讓他的身體能夠健康成長的目標我們會一起努力理解那針對先乳的這個部分我們希望農業部這邊能夠跟積極的來協助解決謝謝以上好謝謝曾政賢委員謝謝部長請回座我們在"},{"start":7069.737,"end":7089.325,"text":"陳廷輝委員資訊之外我們休息休息休息10分鐘下一位資訊請陳廷輝委員現在主席我們請部長請農業部陳部長委員好"},{"start":7098.019,"end":7108.448,"text":"部長好,部長我想在這一次凱敏颱風之後我們發現了一個問題因為這一次凱敏颱風其實是全面性的"},{"start":7109.355,"end":7136.86,"text":"所以我們在整個農災的部分很快就核准魚災的部分也是甚至是畜牧的部分都是在當下然後連續三天就馬上公布可是現在發現一個問題當像凱米這樣的一個全面自災有一個部分我們是沒有辦法去做任何的一個協助的就是我們產業設備"},{"start":7139.601,"end":7152.794,"text":"產業設備這才是嚴重像凱米這個是瞬間尤其又遇到了像我們巴掌西的一個這個堤防然後對然後破洞潰堤的狀態那根本擋不了"},{"start":7155.476,"end":7170.93,"text":"可是在產業的部分他設備上是有問題的是沒有辦法去做任何協助他們去做賠償也好然後做復工那這部分到底我們從這一次凱米颱風我們有什麼樣的檢討嗎"},{"start":7179.176,"end":7196.733,"text":"我跟委員說明我現在也要求我們的同仁開始再重新去檢視天然栽培救助的辦法那第一個部分就是救助的品項他的金額的部分我們會重新去做這是我要跟部長也是要跟你談的第二個部分第二個部分就是說"},{"start":7197.714,"end":7222.156,"text":"沒有錯我們現在看到的因為現在天然災害救助辦法裡面的規範都是直接的損失對於間接的損失是沒有納入的那沒有納入的話我們可以用輔導的周圍去做那也可以直接看看有沒有機會直接放在天然災害救助裡面其實你們現在都用所謂低利率來協助可是我告訴你那個整個就是"},{"start":7223.257,"end":7230.494,"text":"一片狼藉你要怎麼去協助他他也不知道要如何開始你低利率給他也沒有用"},{"start":7231.713,"end":7256.529,"text":"所以其實我們要講的是當我們要協助他來做任何災後回復的動作其實有時候在產業這個設備的部分才是一個重要所以我覺得這個部分要重新檢討另外一個就是我在這當中也跟部長通過電話就像部長剛才說的你要檢討我們的品項多久沒有檢討了"},{"start":7262.169,"end":7279.918,"text":"部長,多久沒檢討了?施牧魚沒有,滾動在檢討農糧的部分,魚的部分,很抱歉,魚的部分我覺得有一段時間了啦多久了,你先講多久你就知道說難怪那個誤差那麼大上次什麼時候?多久?應該有兩三年了兩三年了,不只吧?"},{"start":7290.192,"end":7311.73,"text":"還有我們的畜牧呢?一隻雞一隻鴨我們今年8月6號的時候有重新提出來開始去做檢討那上一次檢討齁 我承認齁 畜牧跟養殖漁業的部分是很久了啦但是農糧的部分齁 那時候我們都有定期的滾動檢討我們希望這個滾動檢討非常重要"},{"start":7316.397,"end":7345.438,"text":"我們農與畜牧的品項都要滾動檢討隨時滾動檢討我們的物價波動那麼快在這一次我們看到那個資料當我們公布之後全面摘損然後公布哇我們看到那個品項的單價怎麼差那麼多所以全部的畜牧業養殖業全部跳腳"},{"start":7347.11,"end":7369.24,"text":"那全部踢到腳之後跟部長回覆的時候沒辦法因為公告了只能下次再拿出來做總體檢好部長8月6號你們已經提出來了那請問多久然後裡面一定要設一個叫滾動式檢討的標準"},{"start":7372.936,"end":7397.39,"text":"因為你沒有滾動式檢討有可能我們看到的農漁然後畜牧你沒有定期滾動式檢討有可能又兩三年後那個物價指數一飛又不知道要飛到哪裡去了部長可不可以我基本上的看法是這樣子過往我們的農漁畜都是各自處理那被關心到的就處理比較快一點"},{"start":7398.749,"end":7402.851,"text":"每一年的訊息之前也許在年初的時候就先做一個確認那如果說它的物價的波動已經達到可以去啟動的時候我們就來調整"},{"start":7423.478,"end":7436.963,"text":"部長,我覺得你講的這些原則,你們要在你們的辦法裡面我們會明定,你沒有明定有可能部長你今天這麼說,可是下面的人不一定會這麼認為"},{"start":7438.604,"end":7457.973,"text":"那每一次我們都要去麻煩部長我們也會不好意思啊我們認為這個部分就是SOP該怎麼走就怎麼做而不是每一次我們都要麻煩到部長然後部長交代然後他們才拿出來檢討而是我們在訓期前就像部長所說的訓期前我們就拿出來檢討"},{"start":7459.093,"end":7487.432,"text":"然後讓我們所有的相關單位有一個依詢甚至是地方的農政單位也知道該怎麼做否則常常都是中央地方完全是不同調光一個勘栽就不同調這讓我們非常的困擾我們都不知道說到底是我們的制度還是地方的制度現在很簡單人家都殺到中央比較快所以每次都先罵中央我覺得這非常不公平"},{"start":7488.513,"end":7509.691,"text":"非常不公平啊,如果地方都不用負擔責任,然後把責任都推給中央,那要地方政府幹什麼?是不是?所以我們就把責任全責劃分清楚。這個也是我要跟你提醒的。什麼人要做什麼事情?當遇到災損,第一步驟誰要做?先把SOP都訂好。"},{"start":7510.7,"end":7537.564,"text":"沒做的拿出來打屁股不是把責任推給別人就可以這個部長我也請你拜託把地方中央該負責所謂勘災當遇到災損的時候農漁畜牧災損的時候該怎麼做的SOP訂出來地方政府的權責訂好這個部分再麻煩另外一個就是我們後避"},{"start":7539.312,"end":7539.572,"text":"總經費多少?"},{"start":7566.651,"end":7591.667,"text":"681本來有下修到681那現在國會還在審但是114年有撥了1.14億部長不要再講國發會了在這個禮拜一我剛問過國發會國發會說現在已經回歸到行政院行政院已經給農業部了就是要針對你們的人力問題編制問題下去做處理下去做調整對不對所以你們現在就是一個推一個嘛"},{"start":7592.5,"end":7593.04,"text":"我跟委員報妙"},{"start":7621.034,"end":7637.227,"text":"114年1.7億今年度我們去挪了大概3200到3500萬去做現在目前的基本的那個馬路公共工程去維修我知道那是這一次然後要應付到明年所謂兩個國際的一個展展"},{"start":7640.349,"end":7652.439,"text":"這個我清楚可是我講的這是大計劃大計劃的部分現在你們還在行政院要求你們要針對機關編制調整這個部分你們什麼時候要抱怨"},{"start":7653.444,"end":7660.29,"text":"我們今年年底就會報 今年年底才要報 你公建計劃怎麼會來得及我跟委員講 那個整個機關人事調整經費調整不是那麼簡單那你這樣子公建計劃怎麼會來得及公建計劃它會滾動的你們到底114年度要編多少 公建計劃"},{"start":7674.441,"end":7699.637,"text":"那是南蛙花卉產業創新園區多少這是15以後的事情因為它是一個比較長程的計畫它是跟南蛙園區的第2個園區結合的部長你怎麼想都上班了啦你怎麼想都上班了啦我告訴你我很緊張啦好 謝謝陳建民委員來部長請回座"},{"start":7701.491,"end":7704.473,"text":"現在主席宣布休息10分鐘"},{"start":7726.929,"end":7727.25,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7742.288,"end":7761.134,"text":"你們早上回約我們的是說114年的布要2.27億這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?這是你們早上回約的嗎?"},{"start":7772.775,"end":7773.236,"text":"本集完﹗"},{"start":8312.076,"end":8324.681,"text":"請官員回座請官員迅速回座請大家遵守會議程序請官員迅速回座我們繼續開會"},{"start":8340.956,"end":8341.176,"text":"農業部陳部長"},{"start":8362.352,"end":8381.421,"text":"部長好 我首先本席要跟你討論超思案偵辦中我給你一個定調 農業部還欠人民一個解釋所以本席要請教 超思案在監委的糾正當中 大家"},{"start":8382.501,"end":8382.721,"text":"主席"},{"start":8408.271,"end":8409.232,"text":"邀請農業部長列席報告"},{"start":8429.455,"end":8446.117,"text":"我跟委員說明就是這個案子超市案子監察院已經做了調查然後也針對農業部做了5項的一個糾正還有一些改善的一些作為那我們絕對尊重監察院或是審計部的這些調查結果我們也針對這個糾正的作為裡面"},{"start":8448.199,"end":8463.504,"text":"是牽涉到很多行政上的一個疏失那特別是在採購的過程中的一個行政疏失的部分那我們也要求了區長會就是重新去建立一個標準的一個SOP好 你還好 有知有覺所以我們繼續來討論你沒有認為監察院審計單位都認為你自己也認為很多的缺失是"},{"start":8473.407,"end":8493.096,"text":"好 除了請他們去改善之外 移請司法單位之外本期要具體跟你討論你的行政調查那麼到目前為止 在之前還沒有報出來的時候 你們還一直說他是掛布警 是一個有時機的"},{"start":8494.577,"end":8510.529,"text":"甚至在你的Q&A的專區裡頭你都還一直說他是很好的那到今天本席上了你的網站看還是如此你認為你這個網站要不要調整啊"},{"start":8511.727,"end":8524.224,"text":"請做說明已經那麼多缺失你仍舊在為他解釋你到底這是為什麼我跟委員說明我們在檢調單位啟動調查的時候我們會尊重檢調單位的調查結果這第一點第二點就是說"},{"start":8530.331,"end":8547.102,"text":"專案進口是在112年那有一些是在111年發生的所以在112年的時候我們說超市有時機指的是他在111年有時機的部分你這麼說我真的嘩然我繼續跟你討論111年8月份雙方簽署了履約情形確認書對不對"},{"start":8558.84,"end":8574.029,"text":"超市在什麼時候成立111年的9月5號成立他在未成立以前就可以去簽這個確認書這怎麼回事啊你到目前為止你的網站還在說"},{"start":8577.709,"end":8585.213,"text":"還為他在說話這怎麼回事啊這怎麼回事太離譜了我插斷你的話你今天出了這麼大的包審計單位監察院司法都在調查你到目前為止你的網站Q&A專區還是如此太離譜了"},{"start":8606.836,"end":8610.08,"text":"還沒有成立之前就可以簽確認書離譜至極接下來本期他說你要去檢討有問題趕快撤好不好"},{"start":8617.54,"end":8619.382,"text":"你趕快去看!那位部長趕快撤!好不好!一個政府還在為有問題的還在掛報警"},{"start":8637.541,"end":8641.503,"text":"這個讓人家覺得很奇怪而且已經司法調查這麼長審計我們的這個這個監委都已經監察院都已經告訴你你也認為是有問題你到現在還讓他很清楚的掛在那裡農業部替他做保證難怪無法無天接下來你趕快去查有問題趕快撤你的原則是不是如此接下來我要再跟你討論"},{"start":8666.789,"end":8692.321,"text":"總諮詢的時候卓院長說了有違法失職絕對嚴辦那你們很早也啟動行政調查請問請問在專案進口的時候我們在經濟委員會在總諮詢要不到資料進口好了之後完了之後我們要資料你告訴我們什麼檢方調查不便提供不便提供所以部長本期要請問喔是誰"},{"start":8695.402,"end":8720.83,"text":"是誰跟吳裕飛簽成議價是誰請教部長是誰這個您所指的應該是111年因為112年是有合約的那合約的簽署是根據合約的規範去執行那110年是用買斷的方式誰簽的去處理對誰簽的整個的一個雞蛋的採購的過程是由續展會來處理的"},{"start":8725.077,"end":8754.343,"text":"請問"},{"start":8756.164,"end":8772.696,"text":"簽證議價確認之後要不要送回農業當時的農委會在執行面的話應該是不用只是在年度計畫在查的時候會去做查核他查核有沒有查到他裡面查核的部分是看他的單因為會計帳會計查帳有會計查帳的一個遊戲規定好會計查帳低價高報低價高報光光這樣子的低價高報"},{"start":8785.15,"end":8787.744,"text":"元素的議題 浪費人民多少選案錢"},{"start":8788.769,"end":8818.223,"text":"低價高報是一個非常嚴肅的問題但是是不是真的低價高報檢調單位正在調查特別是講到3到5月份跟後面9到12月份之間的價差有差異的部分一定也要考慮到當時市場的雞蛋的價格而定而不是說同一個價格所以這個部分我想檢調單位後續會做釐清特別是超市跟另外一家量產公司之間的一個貿易關係這個是我們行政調查是沒辦法介入的"},{"start":8819.794,"end":8832.696,"text":"請教我們在行政調查的時候你明明白白說有這麼多的缺失那請教你們的究責最高層級到底是誰"},{"start":8834.107,"end":8847.592,"text":"你們做了這麼長的行政調查你的究責單位你究責到誰請說明我想分兩個部分在112年的調查的過程裡面我們的當時的畜牧師的師長已經調離現職了"},{"start":8850.233,"end":8851.314,"text":"人民那麼多的納稅錢 部長你去思考"},{"start":8872.825,"end":8880.816,"text":"你去思考 行政調查有我們行政調查權如果這麼大的包只有這個處長調離現職你就稱如本席所說的 農業部"},{"start":8888.806,"end":8916.022,"text":"要還民眾一個解釋跟一個道歉那這個你冷靜去思考出了那麼多的包花了那麼多的錢你要如何跟人民去交代這個是你的職責那我給你一個議題再給我一分鐘喔主席也就是灌水牛的問題本席非常的重視動保法"},{"start":8917.369,"end":8926.814,"text":"那灌水牛的問題我們竟然防檢告訴媒體說只要把內臟拿出來就可以灌水 有這回事嗎"},{"start":8928.131,"end":8928.731,"text":"2012年10年前就告訴人民不可以如此作為"},{"start":8950.609,"end":8971.04,"text":"竟然我們政府部門說只要你內臟拿出來你就可以灌水食安問題怎麼辦你怎麼可以詐欺消費者這是嚴肅的議題你的處罰怎麼處罰不罰者竟然他的所得千億以上千萬以上你們只有動保法罰多少你告訴我這最嚴厲的處罰你只有罰三萬塊最低"},{"start":8977.421,"end":8989.248,"text":"法案3萬塊最低這人民可以接受嗎政府部門公然的詐欺我們的消費者內臟拿出來就可以灌水我們的食安怎麼辦哇那個報紙這麼大一篇你們從來也沒有解釋"},{"start":8999.754,"end":8999.774,"text":"致謝"},{"start":9029.457,"end":9033.799,"text":"稍微仔細首先要請農業部我們的陳部長"},{"start":9064.313,"end":9086.182,"text":"首先,我發起一個問題非常嚴重,農業部每次都要解決都沒有解決。關於現在落農的牛主的一個問題,以前是斑斑出石斑,現在是斑斑喝鮮奶。"},{"start":9087.287,"end":9098.068,"text":"那為什麼把這個題目拿出來因為去年度我剛好來磁力萬里若龍我們產生的那個乳酪過剩的問題"},{"start":9099.608,"end":9121.382,"text":"那時候我記得跟齊琳的那個一個處長我就跟他講你要特別注意 臺日經貿協定那紐西蘭的那個冷漏液品質是非常好 所有統一所有超商所有都是用這樣來做掀奶出來的"},{"start":9122.643,"end":9144.313,"text":"那時候苦求哀求最後你們說很困難所以我當地的那個養若牛的話只有把我們的若牛整個賣掉現在也不經營了我才那年碰到他那現在你搬搬來吃這個鮮奶的時候但是你的理不準非常的複雜"},{"start":9147.082,"end":9162.92,"text":"現在變成只要我們農產品一自銷你有兩個最大的客戶一個是就是國中小學生一個是軍隊我感覺這不是辦法每次你東西一自銷的話你只能這樣解決"},{"start":9164.451,"end":9183.545,"text":"那個誰我記得處理你很認真但是跟我講說困難很多包括保護酒的誰都不接其實這個問題很嚴重你們要面對事情又要保護肉人其實一點都沒有做到啊部長這個我處理過了所以我算很能瞭解這樣的事情"},{"start":9184.751,"end":9197.959,"text":"我跟委員說明一下就是我們把牛奶推到學校去絕對不是台灣是第一個國家因為有世界學校牛奶日其實全世界的小孩包括台灣的小孩我們絕對不是為了去化我們絕對不是為了去化"},{"start":9206.044,"end":9232.677,"text":"因為現在牛奶一年48萬噸進到學校只有2萬噸它量是非常少的我們只希望學童有加開當初要解決困難我還跟你們的次長說不然幫我解決到苗栗的學校去你們說非常困難困難說沒有錢沒有這樣的經費那現在這個那個班班喝牛奶的經費從哪裡來告訴我"},{"start":9236.189,"end":9256.043,"text":"斑斑喝鮮奶我們應該有總共今年度是有7.1億有農損基金農損基金是從農水農損基金還是你農業受進口損害基金阿不是從養牛升級產業計畫來的嗎我跟委員報告齁我們養牛升級產業計畫是一個大計畫在農業基金你是把養牛生產計畫來的"},{"start":9266.731,"end":9278.919,"text":"結果喝牛奶喝到養牛生產計畫就是每一個學校的學生每班班在喝鮮奶,這要告訴我清楚,我得到資料是養牛生及產業計畫裡面輸出的"},{"start":9282.694,"end":9297.44,"text":"我想第一個就是明年度的部份是教育部的一般性的補助我們不到你這邊你就要跳到那個地方去我可以講大概是從養牛生產養牛升級產業計畫"},{"start":9299.281,"end":9301.062,"text":"臺灣為了加日CPTPP"},{"start":9325.642,"end":9354.264,"text":"說我們是已經已開挖已開挖的國家東南亞已開挖的國家是由日本跟新加坡我們現在要在CPP我們的農業都要開挖你早晚都要面臨這樣問題啊不要煙耳罩臉啊我不知道CPP當時是怎樣經濟部說我們是已開挖國家我們跟日本跟新加坡都要一樣"},{"start":9356.179,"end":9369.566,"text":"農產品都要開放,我告訴你,你要想到未來發生的事情,這樣做法不是一勞永逸,而且也不是真正解決的辦法。只要告示自小就叫學生來這裡,叫軍隊來這裡,好不好?"},{"start":9373.936,"end":9388.592,"text":"您應該誤會其實為了加入CPT我們本身一個非常重要的概念就是要把國產的農產品做區格化的市場這個部分是非常重要的還有在地農業的支持區格化這個是國際貿易一定規則我們都曉得"},{"start":9393.559,"end":9395.3,"text":"臺灣現在高級消亡哪一個國家最多?"},{"start":9415.031,"end":9441.053,"text":"我們現在水果外銷哪一個地方最多我們水果現在外銷以日本先三千水果外銷以日本為最大宗大概每一年占全台灣仙果書大概我如果沒有記錯的話應該是到47.5%將近有一半是輸到日本你問講銷到哪裡都有成長除了中國大陸以外你成長但是你記得商人無祖國"},{"start":9442.574,"end":9469.631,"text":"那現在這是有開放的採購我們的柚子但是農業部還在收餐到時這些像你人何氣為鬼有人跟我們買東西那你就說什麼我現在發了一個新聞你們啊專門在搞破壞你們那個農業部發一個新聞花蓮的柚子再次銷往中國大陸那裡面講到說"},{"start":9472.721,"end":9495.537,"text":"發言：在發言書中：中國的文旦檢疫不合格率將近43%我要去外燒你跟我們說我們的合格率達不到：合格率啊：不合格的不合格將近43%啊就在燒啊啊你敢不知道啊"},{"start":9498.257,"end":9505.988,"text":"我們的國小企當然有各種政治性的因素在以前的黨只有用這個來黨你們要找人家也是用這個來黨的"},{"start":9508.858,"end":9518.923,"text":"委員真的是誤會我們農產品外銷不管是哪個國家我們應該要確保我們的品質換句話說如果說我們國內沒辦法把關的話去到中國以後被退貨那才是丟臉所以我們要確保我們的優質的產品那現在檢驗不合格的有沒有出去"},{"start":9531.283,"end":9546.981,"text":"剪譯不合格的就不會出去了你講的齁我不怎麼相信我了解我們經過我們防檢局邊境剪譯不合格的話我們不會讓他出關的好啦保障品質要啦阿不要那個時間花表啦"},{"start":9547.962,"end":9574.865,"text":"過了再發表你是在跟人家縣市是在搞破壞最好你們不要來買啦我跟委員說明齁其實對於中國市場本身我們是重視每一個市場但是中國市場本身他是透過縣市政府去談相關的檢疫條件那相關的所有的世界的國家的檢疫條件都是兩國之間來談的如果只是縣市政府的話像柚子花蓮處理的那我們的台南的部分怎麼辦"},{"start":9575.566,"end":9594.186,"text":"他應該是一個國家的一個檢疫條件共同去推動的沒有你農業部的就是檢驗不合格率達到43%我不曉得我是看到這個新聞但是我相信縣政府包括農會他們常常在外銷的時候他們有自我檢驗"},{"start":9595.367,"end":9621.698,"text":"30秒嗎?"},{"start":9622.158,"end":9627.382,"text":"謝謝陳昌明委員優質而有效率的質詢,謝謝,非常感謝,非常感謝,謝謝,謝謝,部長請回座,下一位質詢請蔡議員來比照一下優質"},{"start":9654.517,"end":9656.741,"text":"好謝謝昭偉那我們就邀請部長請農業部陳部長部長好"},{"start":9666.837,"end":9688.434,"text":"部長那個我先前也有跟你聊過就是說我們針對這一個轉作的獎勵也就是綠色環境幾部那我們綠色環境幾部他是基於說維護臺灣的這個農地的資源那我們也希望減少稻米的種稻因為臺灣的稻米產量過剩的所以我們是"},{"start":9690.837,"end":9707.815,"text":"轉鼓勵農民去種雜糧作物尤其是黃小玉那就會有針對雜糧的一個獎金一個獎勵金那這個獎勵的對象也有包括G7年在G7年有種到的農地或者是有契約的甘蔗田那"},{"start":9708.942,"end":9724.015,"text":"那我要跟主委聊的就是說,我們知道說事實上有很多河川工地,阿這個河川工地勒,他沒有經濟,然後他就是會土石流,每次颱風會有土石流嘛,土石流來,他就會把整個河川兩側都會遇激啦"},{"start":9729.981,"end":9744.076,"text":"會有淤積那淤積還好喔最麻煩的就是說他在那裡生的蘿蔔樹蘿蔔樹長得比一個人還要高事實上我們過去也有在鼓勵河川地是可以開放給農民來種植"},{"start":9747.239,"end":9764.198,"text":"阿我們只是獻他說如果你是在訓期的期間你不可以種而且如果非訓期你要進非高經作務這個我想這個部長這沒有問題嘛但是看起來農民要去種植要在這個河川工地種植的誘因是不夠的"},{"start":9765.502,"end":9779.321,"text":"右營那主要的一個右營來源就是說他們並沒有這個剛剛講的這個獎勵金沒有這樣的獎勵金那我要跟主委說就是說我們如果以這一次巴掌溪在凱米颱風然後他造成的水災"},{"start":9780.442,"end":9800.651,"text":"我們看到的就是輸菌的問題,我們看到的就是這個巴展西兩側這些雜木,銀河歡長得太高了,然後影響到了輸菌所以說這個東西是連帶的,然後為了後來要解決這件事情,行政院用了28億來做加強的輸菌28億,這筆錢很大"},{"start":9806.053,"end":9833.927,"text":"那我要跟部長講就是說如果我們可以跨部會的來整合這件事情我們應該跟經濟部水利署跳出來說好我們這個河川工地鼓勵農民來工作讓農民來代為管理然後我們針對這樣的河川工地我們也給他類似這個轉做獎勵的鼓勵農民來做農民就給大家的地管理才好"},{"start":9834.927,"end":9835.928,"text":"這部分你們可以在政策上來做一個檢討嗎?"},{"start":9854.09,"end":9882.59,"text":"我謝謝委員對於核酸工地本身的一個關注那現在臺灣其實在我們在規劃國土計畫裡面大概核酸工地有大概有3萬公頃左右是在做從事一些非訊息的時候種植那委員講的我們可以認同的一個重點就是說如果農民在非訊息的時候去種植他也代為管理這個這邊核酸土地那在這樣的精神裡面可能要考慮的就是說第一個就是說我們在做獎勵的一個設計的時候"},{"start":9884.131,"end":9884.391,"text":"主席"},{"start":9909.106,"end":9922.463,"text":"暫時地號所以這部分是可以解決的只是說面積的範圍他們可能需要再跟一些相關單位把它確認起來對如果說面積是可以確定的時候我們接下來就是會"},{"start":9923.524,"end":9923.544,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":9938.933,"end":9938.953,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":9956.676,"end":9962.717,"text":"我希望這件事可以快,因為我剛剛有講這一次巴掌溪就花了28億,然後要整幾乎是差不多下游段都幾乎都要整治了。所以你說在這個時間點,我們可以隨便農民去整,他就管理得好。"},{"start":9981.621,"end":10006.978,"text":"如果我們再拖一年,你如果知道台灣這種氣候就很發燒了就發起來了,以後你等於農民說我要去租,他又要去清那些草,又陰又不見了所以我覺得很多東西就是這個時候剛好就是我們就趕快處理,讓農民醫療就來管理這裡,管理起來就很好,農民有收益,然後我們整個政府他在未來要處理要去清這一些"},{"start":10007.538,"end":10008.939,"text":"災害救助的標準災害救助"},{"start":10028.046,"end":10041.713,"text":"水稻來說,水稻如果是這個在幼苗的時候,它的災害的救助一分地是400元,是這種,我們知道現在農民,他要插糧,這個恆仔的身份,人工的身份都提高,一分地都已經到兩三千塊,所以這個天然災害的救助這個以400塊而言看起來,"},{"start":10052.138,"end":10080.9,"text":"也偏低還有上上一次來到我們東石去看那個那個楷米颱風那一次那個蚵仔順勢也很嚴重那次部長也有來那也是有去聊到說事實上針對類似這樣的蚵仔他的災害的救助6000塊也已經將近30年沒有調整了所以這樣很多的現象看起來這個天然災害的這個救助的一個標準是不是有再為檢討的一個必要"},{"start":10081.46,"end":10081.48,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":10111.66,"end":10135.557,"text":"向這個物價指數標高的時候我們也可以做一些調整所以未來會變成一個制度性的我認同你這樣的用制度性的來看待這件事情因為總部的每一個品項都要等到有人去關心他才會被變動所以因為品項很多所以你們應該定期然後有一些檢討然後去符合合理的一個災害的一個救助標準對而且我們會把這個這個"},{"start":10136.698,"end":10143.662,"text":"部長還有一個就是稻米保險的部分因為稻米保險對於農民的誘因一直是拉不起來我覺得我們有必要再花個時間再來檢討一下整個稻米保險的政策"},{"start":10164.294,"end":10181.278,"text":"我想稻米保險的部分我們會再加強努力那其實我們稻米這兩年理賠其實都蠻超額理賠大概都8點多億所以這個部分我想我們會再努力看起來是有理賠可是問題就是很奇怪這個對農民的誘因不見了然後這個很多誘因是他們從當時的1350塊不見了他們就因為這件事"},{"start":10185.319,"end":10186.5,"text":"謝謝蔡議員那個非常令人感動的諮詢"},{"start":10217.72,"end":10227.194,"text":"請邱昭偉好來請我們邱昭偉謝謝主席 請農業部陳部長來請部長"},{"start":10235.116,"end":10255.877,"text":"部長,第一個問題請教你,我們要怎麼樣優化我們對天然災害的這個補助的政策?那目前山坨的颱風,大概農損大概有4億多,目前統計起來農損大概4億多。對,但是速報的結果。速報的結果,那當然包括行政院,包括我們地方縣市首長都希望能夠用現金救助。"},{"start":10257.073,"end":10265.037,"text":"同一年是一年還是?不是,我舉個例子,蔬菜蔬菜你知道一天購一個月嘛他下次再種的話又可以,如果遇到天災就可以再領就是同一個產期"},{"start":10284.628,"end":10302.407,"text":"蔬菜產期大概是大概一個月啦那意思是說不受同曆年的限制對受產期的限制只有長期作物現在是這次的台灣跟上次的海米相隔大概兩個月對不對同樣受到農作物同樣受到重創"},{"start":10303.107,"end":10303.467,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10325.701,"end":10330.903,"text":"我認為這應該從優從寬認定包括香蕉、番石榴、蜜棗、木瓜、蓮霧它基本上目前都是全年可以生產不過它有盛產期所以如果按照這種極端氣候發生極端氣候大概是風災啦風災大概是每年4月也許到11月這半年時間"},{"start":10353.513,"end":10374.659,"text":"是不是可以放寬現金補助的那個標準我跟委員我們正在研議齁那大原則是我們可以開放可以跨年以前是歷年嘛齁可以跨年但是還是會維持一個產業我舉個例子荔枝好了那荔枝六七月齁接了以後大概他有特定的產季嘛對嘛"},{"start":10377.6,"end":10388.726,"text":"全年生產的水果類也很多全年都是產季的水果也不少那你同時碰到兩次三次的風災你現在按照規定只能離一次我覺得你們要從"},{"start":10390.247,"end":10392.548,"text":"我希望一個月之內提出一個比較明確的方案是不是檢討現今這個補助的標準跟次數讓所有的農民都能夠了解"},{"start":10418.683,"end":10422.146,"text":"農業時間定價新制反中期是今年底到期有沒有相關的配套措施?"},{"start":10444.358,"end":10444.939,"text":"水電費應該是由政府來..."},{"start":10464.614,"end":10472.162,"text":"這會變成變相的這個長電價請農業部跟經濟部再去協調一下我們不管他電價有沒有浮動有沒有下跡或什麼的我們對農業用電部分吼我們有一個優惠的那個價差的一個補貼會編到我們的公務預算"},{"start":10485.397,"end":10510.993,"text":"還不會受到這個電價波動影響對預算我們明年編列的24億就是處理這個我講結論啦齁你今年年底到期這個用電價新制緩衝期之後他用新的電價機制他會不會增加成本他所增加的成本由農業部來編預算來吸收所以不會增加額外的成本是這樣子嗎要講什麼呢價差就是價差價差由農業部來吸收來吸收對"},{"start":10512.165,"end":10538.198,"text":"第三個問題,糧食自給率啊,糧食自給率的部分啊,這個你看這個拜登也神經清楚強化糧食以農業安全的內心,這是國家安全的一個重要的政策,對不對?那我們糧食安全的自給率目前還是偏低啊,所以目前你一個有一個推動小組,你應該要跟最起碼跟這個美國跟日本韓國來看齊,我們現在糧食自給率是多少?只有33.5對不對?"},{"start":10540.492,"end":10544.956,"text":"應該是30.7然後今年度可能變成30.4日本、韓國40億、40億、45啦你要有短、中、長期的目標要怎麼讓自己能夠提高這點很重要"},{"start":10559.144,"end":10574.513,"text":"我想我們設有短通長期目標也跟委員說明我們現在糧食之旅被拉下來最主要是飼料用的玉米跟大豆90%大概96%都是進口的那相對的我們的主要的稻米超過100%水產也超過100%"},{"start":10578.616,"end":10593.474,"text":"特殊的這個農產品我們是沒有問題的但是你要整個從全盤的概念來看我是覺得這個整體的糧食自給還有提高空間我是覺得你們是不是要一段時間要提出糧食安全白皮書"},{"start":10594.821,"end":10598.423,"text":"農業保險的效能除了強制性的保險之外我們的從109完成立法之後開始"},{"start":10623.519,"end":10631.427,"text":"是上升之後一直到今年又下降所以到整體的覆蓋率還不高覆蓋率扣除強制性保險只有17.3"},{"start":10633.992,"end":10634.292,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10655.262,"end":10682.292,"text":"那我們所了解就是說本身的這些這些理賠的價格不符合農民的預期啦然後保費的部分雖然說有補助可是你理賠的的價格我們用什麼樣的誘因再去刺激誘因才有意願嘛我知道那你整個產品的設計也要符合他們的需求了解這點很重要有一部分是屬於商業保險的部分我們會再跟商業保險公司來談因為農業扛這個綠能的責任是多少要要達到多少多少目標"},{"start":10685.56,"end":10699.829,"text":"農業20GB綠能就是20GB目前達成率是多少現在目前達成率大概我們現在是3.74我們農業部負責的大概是9GB你要去檢討為什麼會達成率那麼低問題處理對我時間關係我做教育要準經準時我要以身作則"},{"start":10711.971,"end":10713.452,"text":"請農業部提交書面資料給我,謝謝"},{"start":10740.033,"end":10744.836,"text":"主席各位有請主委來部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":10772.35,"end":10798.569,"text":"委員長好這個針對花蓮因為地震地震0403地震加上凱米颱風再加上不斷的移震不斷的移震造成這個道路不論是公路蘇哈公路還有北威鐵路一再的不通"},{"start":10800.194,"end":10807.336,"text":"所以為了再獲得振興,農業部7月1號推出這個250元的花蓮農產品的優惠券當時這個規劃是這樣,然後整個經費當初是1.83億,那一季7月1號發行"},{"start":10823.762,"end":10842.921,"text":"當然隨著相關的這些整個災情整個交通然後加上最近的台風也都造成了很大的影響請教一下這個部長"},{"start":10844.164,"end":10857.008,"text":"目前這個時勢的狀況怎麼樣我跟委員報告就是0403以後我們為了振興花蓮的這些農產品能夠順利的能夠吸引外地人來買那我們規劃的那個農粉券的部分大概預計是70萬張"},{"start":10859.549,"end":10887.014,"text":"到目前為止已經大概使用了大概40萬張左右啦,44萬張左右所以這個部分我們執行率大概六成到七成然後我們也因為0403以後交通又陸續的就中斷過嘛所以我們也考慮把農粉券這個日期能夠特別是第二類的從電商平台那邊去購買花蓮產品的部分能夠延到大概11月或12月的部分,我們會視情況而定"},{"start":10889.314,"end":10894.522,"text":"呃部長齁40本來是議定多少70萬張70萬現在是40萬齁44萬那如果這7分在花蓮"},{"start":10901.707,"end":10929.136,"text":"使用的跟在我們這樣分以外的第一類我們分兩類一類就是你要人要到花蓮然後期間之內買第二類就是說你在電商平台買花蓮的農產品那大概有將近39萬到40萬是到花蓮的然後剩下大概4萬左右是用第二類的就是電商平台的好這個部分所以當初你們原來那個"},{"start":10931.124,"end":10934.48,"text":"有定期限嗎那個有什麼我是說那個"},{"start":10936.199,"end":10963.193,"text":"以下名稱改稱什麼農粉劍農粉劍農粉劍農粉幣農粉幣裡面會有期限嗎應該這麼講本來有一定的期限要11月吧現在可能會延到12月但是你第一類的就是你到了花蓮觀光有沒有你去買的時候有沒有你要7天之內要用完因為我們鼓勵他在地消費"},{"start":10966.095,"end":10983.163,"text":"這個部分這個時間的一個關係就是說整個本來要去消費的結果確實沒有嘛因為交通中斷了就沒有去這是一種狀況所以這個部分要請這個"},{"start":10985.185,"end":11003.375,"text":"農業部隨時看這個整個執行的狀況能夠做彈性的調整上次我在這邊也有提到執行的時候也有提到所以當初你們也同意隨機應變這個部分怎麼樣能夠真正落實"},{"start":11008.418,"end":11025.692,"text":"能夠去最好,我們鼓勵去,現在很多的團體包括觀光署他們也鼓勵能夠去當然我們農業部其實有很多的附屬機關有在花蓮"},{"start":11029.5,"end":11038.256,"text":"有在臺東其實你們可以相關的交通部也在鼓勵各位相關的會議現在這個"},{"start":11043.046,"end":11043.306,"text":"好 非常感謝 非常感謝"},{"start":11072.639,"end":11084.837,"text":"好接下來這個有關這個農業部的報告裡面有提到這個農民退休儲金上次我也提到了怎麼樣去加強"},{"start":11086.121,"end":11086.521,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11104.261,"end":11104.281,"text":"委員會議長"},{"start":11134.822,"end":11155.804,"text":"最後的這個部分這個有關最近114年度的總預算之所以在立法院在這期委員會停留在那邊就是因為原住民的禁法補償"},{"start":11158.801,"end":11184.808,"text":"2001年英國的生態經濟學博士提爾斯說一個岩石林的碳匯價值一公頃是2000美金這個是2001年說的2000美金就差不多6萬塊台幣6萬多了台幣現在已經20幾年了所以大概不止了所以這個部分我們在這個"},{"start":11187.654,"end":11209.913,"text":"碳費的話,前幾天環境部估算每年一季將有60億元的碳費收入當然本來不止啦,但是他們這次壓得很低啦只有60億而這些經費本來我們原住民的立委,我本席也想替這個"},{"start":11211.713,"end":11234.305,"text":"原明會本來應該是農業部要編的一算 森林法院是你們的主管機關我本來想說其他的像碳費也可以投入在這個部分 但是很可惜本席在上一屆提出這個條文修正的時候沒有通過"},{"start":11236.658,"end":11258.832,"text":"未來會再修氣候應變簽法的相關法案也請農業部到時候要去跟環境部協調說明而確實是整個森林原住民就是守護這個森林"},{"start":11262.125,"end":11262.185,"text":"主席"},{"start":11275.344,"end":11294.832,"text":"我們再來看看用什麼方法,因為整個森林的部分,如果說它是造林的部分,再撫育的部分,我想農業部都能夠來協助。對,好,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝鄭天才委員,非常精準有效率的質詢,謝謝。部長請回座。下一位質詢請...請賴樂文委員質詢。"},{"start":11308.866,"end":11309.047,"text":"請農業部陳部長"},{"start":11317.039,"end":11318.98,"text":"我跟委員說明 上次的楷米颱風最主要是"},{"start":11346.101,"end":11349.282,"text":"所以你們會把它給整併在一起做處理嗎?還是你會怎麼處理?"},{"start":11375.411,"end":11396.238,"text":"這個獨立事件但是相對的就是我們會盡快的齁我們的同仁大概高頻率去看大概什麼時候可以今天下午到明天我們一定會公告齁全品項的部分我們會公告然後免現根的部分我們也會公告那個高雄跟屏東這次大概受災最嚴重但那個台東也嚴重那我說這兩個縣市都已經提出全品項我希望"},{"start":11396.678,"end":11421.686,"text":"部長能夠我們基本上專家會議正在開那我所得到訊息大概會開這個全品項的部分但是應該是會支持全品項對但是免限刊的部分會根據作物項目而不一樣主要的受災的作物項目會開免限刊但是上一次領過的不能再領大概是這樣這個當然啦上次如果已經有領過了這麼短的時間內就好那所以今天應該就是會全品項會確定了對今天晚上"},{"start":11422.846,"end":11440.157,"text":"我回去以後我會批 或者是最慢明天早上就會公佈全米巷整個公佈了好 謝謝部長那什麼時候可以把這些的競速的給到這些農民身上我想齁如果是免掀根的部分齁我們希望說只要照片就認定了"},{"start":11441.158,"end":11442.24,"text":"部長這樣重述的話可以多快?"},{"start":11453.928,"end":11475.854,"text":"重述的話 這個要看公所的部分 我們現在跟公所協調有沒有一個目標值 什麼 多久時間大概一個月到40天之內 我們希望說趕一下好不好 我們希望一個月內把它完成好不好就是盡量 最快時間讓這些受到風災的競速來完成我在這邊也跟委員說明 就是公所在當你開全品項的時候 公所的負擔是非常大的"},{"start":11477.414,"end":11502.03,"text":"所以我們也希望說 縣市政府的工作 縣市政府能夠幫忙整個群力來協助好不好 群力來協助再來我請教一下 今天立法院因為現在還沒有審總預算 那我看到這個從新興的到新增計畫到前瞻的部分大概有414億會受到影響 其他既有大概照做部長 那如果遲遲的沒有來審這個總預算 這些部分怎麼來進行"},{"start":11502.91,"end":11504.651,"text":"部長,那如果沒有的話,你有什麼樣的..."},{"start":11525.083,"end":11546.456,"text":"沒有的部分我們可能會針對我們原來的預算因為有很多治水預算、農水路的預算是新增的嘛那如果說原來的預算還有一些的話我們原來預算會先處理但是那個處理量能就會弱很多啦所以我們還是希望說總預算能夠儘速的赴委來跟委員報告相關的預算我們的執行的目標"},{"start":11548.338,"end":11565.229,"text":"我看到裡面有很多是涉及到跟地方政府補助大概286億的部分那這個部分也會受到影響嗎因為它也是新增跟整個新的計畫部分那如果其實沒有通過這286億就不能執行囉對就不能沒辦法做所以我們希望還是希望盡快立法院"},{"start":11566.129,"end":11583.604,"text":"行政院提出預算 立法院審議本來就職責啦 憲政職責 那應該儘速來審議 有問題的部分 要刪減要凍結都可以來進行討論 但是全面沒辦法進到來 我覺得這個立法院反而會失職啦所以我們希望委員能夠支持 然後盡快讓我們的預算能夠送副委送審"},{"start":11584.224,"end":11605.486,"text":"再來我請教一下其實這一次的斑斑喝鮮奶其實我認為是一個很好的政策啦因為孩子們多喝鮮奶那我看到昨天高雄很多地方也都開始在鮮奶的利用第二節下課時間來發那大概有些不能執行我看到我今天七成選包酒乳啦大概他們遇到問題都是因為可能是因為冷戀的部分"},{"start":11606.407,"end":11606.908,"text":"部長你應該支持多推鮮乳對不對?"},{"start":11627.284,"end":11646.096,"text":"我們基本上當因為鮮乳跟保酒是一樣好品質都好但是用鮮乳的部分也許如果大家願意喝鮮乳我們希望也鼓勵喝鮮乳所以我們會讓鮮乳的冷鏈能夠確保讓消費者就是學校的這些訂閱者或者學童放心的時候他訂單就會慢慢的會做一點調整"},{"start":11646.736,"end":11663.076,"text":"所以農業部這邊會持續協助做冷鏈這一塊對 這個部分我們在規範裡面就是說先爐的部分冷鏈車到了學校有保冷袋能夠分送來確保他全程就是在一個控溫的條件之下去發放"},{"start":11664.428,"end":11665.488,"text":"對,我們會提供比較安全的資訊給這些學校"},{"start":11692.124,"end":11715.832,"text":"可不可以給我一份報告好不好一個月內給我一份你們推動的報告我希望這一個比例部長有沒有一個目標啦知道什麼時候提升到一個比例孩子們會選擇多少比例一定是他的便利性跟安全性的信任啦對農業部來講喔只要是牛奶都是好的不管是保酒乳跟鮮乳那保酒乳跟鮮乳基本上就是由學校來定但是我們會把相關的背景資訊會提供給學校"},{"start":11718.273,"end":11736.802,"text":"也讓他知道鮮乳沒有比較不安全讓他們在這個充分的資訊的前提之下去做自己的選擇我相信如果在同樣的條件下安全跟保險各方面顧慮一下我相信會更多人選擇鮮乳的選擇啦我認為他們對於不選鮮乳我覺得他們的顧慮應該來自於是安全或者是保"},{"start":11739.923,"end":11740.263,"text":"我個人認為中國市場他的"},{"start":11763.78,"end":11764.06,"text":"文彈的部分"},{"start":11780.879,"end":11807.931,"text":"那他的時間又非常短實際上以我們現在統計到的資料文旦大概有6萬多噸全臺灣的財產包括現在對於那個34項農產品也開始對於科證關稅所以我覺得他其實很有策略的去那我要講的是說其實對於一個專制的國家其實風險本來就很高他要給你不給你養套殺的部分在當年的時候2005年他可以給你養到給你套但是到現在你不聽他的或那個他就給你殺所以我認為對於專制"},{"start":11809.372,"end":11812.093,"text":"我跟委員報告就是持續開發中國以外高端市場是我們的政策那以數字為例過去3年來輸大陸以外的從38億變成4億"},{"start":11831.078,"end":11831.258,"text":"請王育民委員"},{"start":11864.824,"end":11865.625,"text":"9月21 去年9月11開始代理"},{"start":11886.688,"end":11904.819,"text":"對 去年我在台中市擔任副市長的時候我們還有一起共同合作這個恭喜你升官但是責任重大本期今天呢就要跟你反映的是有關於我們這個災後補助的問題剛剛前面一個委員提到是最近的三坨的颱風但我要讓你看的這個是上一次凱米颱風它也是橫掃整個嘉義縣這個蚵農它所有的這個蚵棚的流失"},{"start":11913.164,"end":11913.384,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11940.828,"end":11963.254,"text":"10萬10萬左右差不多10萬喔差不多10萬到十幾萬嗎對啊好你估的這個是10萬那你認為你補助個5000然後柯農辛辛苦苦就是架起來這樣棚架颱風一來一掃全部都沒有了心血付諸流水你認為這樣的一個補助有沒有到位要不要再繼續檢討"},{"start":11964.707,"end":11982.913,"text":"我分兩個部分第一個部分就是我們天然災救助本身的精神是補助他成本的20%為基準大概有高高低低他不是為了他的實際的損失那第二個部分我也認為"},{"start":11984.404,"end":11990.429,"text":"這樣的一個救助的金額應該做定期的檢討。那這個部分我想我們已經在做了。"},{"start":12004.56,"end":12004.6,"text":"主席"},{"start":12023.587,"end":12024.167,"text":"部長有沒有機會到阿里山去?"},{"start":12051.158,"end":12079.445,"text":"我從午夜到現在應該去過了兩次了吧有去過兩次有沒有吃過阿里山山上的這個山葵山葵有沒有人招待你吃應該以前有吃過這兩次去好像沒吃到沒吃過齁那你下次我們一起上山齁請你吃齁這個山葵齁阿里山的山葵真的味道非常的好你自己有沒有覺得你以前吃了嗎我知道我在農業實驗所所長的時候我就是推這個山葵到阿里山去的對"},{"start":12080.245,"end":12108.285,"text":"那很好但是現在呢當地的農民跟我反映喔就是他們現在因為為了保護這個林巷所以以前有一些可以種山葵的現在不行嘛但是呢農民他們自己現在研發出來其實你們也研發出來他們可以呢變成是林下的經濟作物他已經可以變成是太空包農民跟我說他們可以用太空包就是來種山葵出來也不會破壞你的林巷那現在其實你們包括八月份你們也才"},{"start":12108.945,"end":12132.133,"text":"新增加三個項目我今天就是要幫阿里山的山魁請命就是可不可以把它納入你們的林下經濟作物創造雙贏因為它的品質真的非常的好我覺得如果可以讓它的量再增加的話可以進到五星級的飯店甚至可以出口就是幫助這個農民增加非常多的收入可不可以去演繹"},{"start":12132.873,"end":12153.638,"text":"我跟委員說明,就是林下經濟有一個非常重要的就是,不是任何作物都倒進去,我們最擔心的就是它的農藥的噴灑,影響了生態。所以後續我會去了解就是說,新的這些山葵的種植方法是不是真的達到友善,而且是不使用農藥的方式。如果是的話,我想我們可以來考慮看有什麼方式來處理。"},{"start":12154.258,"end":12155.118,"text":"下一位質詢．黃建斌委員"},{"start":12190.488,"end":12214.271,"text":"好,謝謝主席,有請我們農業部的陳部長農業部陳部長委員好部長好部長其實本席在前天夜帶到經濟委員會來這邊質詢其實最主要的還是針對這次山脫颱風對台東造成的這個傷害希望各部位能來協助"},{"start":12216.264,"end":12242.425,"text":"部長你來自基站,我相信你也非常了解農民辛苦,農民看天吃飯,生意又不穩定那這次山頭有重創台東縣的南迴地區那很多的農地,很多機具都被土石流無情的沖走掩埋那災民也非常辛苦,他苦苦等著中央來協助像我們的總統去了他的金山跟萬里老家"},{"start":12243.226,"end":12271.703,"text":"那部長你陪行政院長到屏東看齋那副院長去了竹民美術館那不過災害發生到現在我們還沒有看到那一個中央部會的首長有在台東觀行齁那不禁讓很多台東人感慨我們身為這塊土地上的每一個同樣是這塊土地上的一份子卻感受是三等公民的待遇那保證你身為我們農業的大家庭臺台的官民都期待你來臺台看齋"},{"start":12274.202,"end":12280.915,"text":"本席在這個禮拜五也會邀請相關部會到臺東勘猜早上原民會主委也答應本席部長你可不可以一起下來"},{"start":12282.468,"end":12305.463,"text":"第一個部分我跟委員說明就是我們的勘災特別是臺中地區它最嚴重的地區在臺馬的地區還有鳳梨世家那鳳梨世家是有一些延遲性的部分然後禮拜五的勘災因為禮拜五的總諮詢剛好輪到經濟委員會所以變成說我們農業部必須在總諮詢的時候在院會所以可能沒辦法參加我可以請我們的市長去參加謝謝部長"},{"start":12312.048,"end":12313.213,"text":"那我想"},{"start":12315.246,"end":12344.689,"text":"這次的颱風好大雨對台東縣的造成很嚴重的農損剛剛像我們高雄市長陳吉邁市長也說要跟中央機制爭取這個全品項的現金救助那剛剛部長也說明天全品項的救助都會全部公布出來對不對現金的保溫都會公布對我們會根據今天早上開的今天早上我們次長在開的專家會議的決議我們確定了以後我們最慢今天或者是明天早上就會公布可是"},{"start":12345.009,"end":12350.091,"text":"部長,因為現在都還在搶修當中,所以還沒有正確的處處理。所以部長分析也要求說,是不是用比照辦理就好?理論上是真的在宣傳什麼比較?"},{"start":12369.68,"end":12386.227,"text":"的公告的標準是一致性的不會說不同的地方有不同的標準那臺東地區我剛才說了臺東地區有一些延遲性的災損那現在是看不到的那後續如果說有真的有災損發生的時候我們也會公告好謝謝部長部長"},{"start":12389.228,"end":12412.541,"text":"在風災過後,我們台中農開場有發一篇新聞,說虎爺農有趕快復耕,本期也是支持,希望趕快復耕,減少損害,但是部長不是農民要復耕就可以,他的先決條件是什麼?農路要通,路要先通,部長這個是這一次,昨天本期看到的畫面,這個農路都毀損了,而且土石嚴重,那這個部分,"},{"start":12414.182,"end":12441.908,"text":"不只農路很多農地也都沖刷原本那個河川的自體線都已經越過了那個整個赤家園都是土石根本沒辦法復耕那這部分要請部長能夠多增加一些預算來協助臺東縣這次災害的復建我想第一個部分就是農水路的這些修繕的部分農業部在農業部權責的範圍之內我們一定會協助那第二個部分就是這次的颱風的部分那行政院有請縣市政府提報"},{"start":12442.808,"end":12468.681,"text":"因為這次颱風造成的這些道路的損害的時候能夠提到中央 中央會撥相關的經費來協助謝謝部長 部長本來最後一次來補充這個都是一角而已 因為這是目前清道的部分可以看得到的山上還有很多地方還沒有被發現那還不包括整個野溪河床的淤積的沙子的清淤的部分這部分再請部長能夠來盡力的協助台中縣政府"},{"start":12469.281,"end":12469.561,"text":"中嘉賓委員"},{"start":12492.908,"end":12515.285,"text":"主席在堂委員先 中委不好意思我再宣告一下今天上午質詢到因為謝一鳳委員已經到場今天上午質詢到謝一鳳委員質詢結束我們休息到兩點半再繼續開會好 謝謝我就問候一個省略了就有請我們陳部長跟農糧署的署長請陳部長 農糧署署長"},{"start":12524.058,"end":12529.644,"text":"部長我的重點就這兩個標題 農損救濟跟農業設施 來我們看一下這是凱米颱風 屏東損失 農損破4億 在7月份的時候 是不是全國最多的應該是 那請問從7月到現在 這個救助已經都發出去了嗎"},{"start":12543.581,"end":12572.04,"text":"我們大概我們預估的進來大概是49億然後現在播了大概16億吧21億20幾億那有一部分是因為公所限補還沒送上來那我們原則是送上來三天之內我們就會播廣那個部長您給我們一個很清楚的流程民眾在問我們要告訴他還是公所還沒送啦還是館長還沒送啦還是農業部還沒播清楚給我們知道好不好是不是下個月之前都可以領得到"},{"start":12574.438,"end":12575.419,"text":"請問這次救助項目什麼時候公布?"},{"start":12596.73,"end":12617.123,"text":"現在我們正在開專家會議然後開專家會議開完以後確認以後最快今天今天質詢結束以後我會回去簽或者是明天早上一定會公告上週六你有陪同卓院長到我們訪寮到我們家東雖然你沒有到我的選區裡來我還是去陪同也去了解農民關係的問題我端蓋太順了有穿過這次我們就想知道可以穿嗎"},{"start":12621.287,"end":12643.63,"text":"這個要看你的作物是不是同一個產期,如果說葉菜類的話不在同一個產期是可以的所以說短期作物已經復耕就可以重複申請,如果短期作物受損還沒復耕就無法申請,但是長期作物哪些品項可以申請我們現在目前就是我們正在重新去調整,過往都是以歷年制,歷年過一個年,那現在就是說我們希望說"},{"start":12644.949,"end":12648.714,"text":"在同一個產期不能重複領那不同產期就可以"},{"start":12660.948,"end":12671.611,"text":"這個香蕉的部分我們可能還要再去處理,實際的處理,因為香蕉有新植有新芽的部分,那這個會比較複雜屏東這是香蕉太順暢嚴重,等一下我就繼續問下去,除了農損之外,還有什麼?我請教署長你要了解,有什麼叫香蕉的,有一張香蕉一隻阿公啦,香蕉條,有兩張用一支,你知不知道什麼原因?"},{"start":12685.967,"end":12692.833,"text":"有的是牙管 有的是主管 有的用一支 有的兩張用一支 有的一張用一支 防風 最主要是防風對啦 其實農民都很害怕啦 有時候他們兩張拔一支他要生殖啦 結果現在我看到兩張拔一支都凍了啦"},{"start":12705.543,"end":12707.405,"text":"其實農業設施的耐厚性抗厚性很重要"},{"start":12723.743,"end":12739.161,"text":"有時候農民要生殖,電到全部都損失了了,你了解齁?所以接下來我們來看一下,這次的資產損毀是更嚴重,你緊張倒起來就賺嘛,緊張知道就賣嘛,但是整個門塞沒過,扣過,都少了了,那個農業資產損失更慘重,不是嗎?"},{"start":12741.443,"end":12756.765,"text":"那請問自台純維要怎麼救助?我跟委員說明齁,就是藝術家講的忙碌的部分齁,那其實當天我在現場也有提到,那是雖然說是廉務的部分齁,因為過去的網子你如果說用比較粗網目的,一次台風就破掉了。"},{"start":12757.786,"end":12779.033,"text":"有更好的材料動作更久,對不對?對,但是,所以我們有一個政策就是說,你用比較強化的這些往事的話,我們可以把補助的金額拉高,讓農民引導到...這就對了啦,有時候要省錢,等一下轉料啦,有時候多花一塊,你用的設施有耐耗性比較強。對,我們會朝這個方向去做。所以我的訴求,主席站起來了齁,"},{"start":12779.973,"end":12797.443,"text":"平東的災區要多點的寬容,我最好兩句講一下第一個,平東縣的全縣的農業業能納入天環災救助項目請盡快來協助第二個,補助資材的材料費用要往鼓勵農民給他有誘因,強化他採用抗後性較佳的,可以嗎?"},{"start":12798.243,"end":12798.523,"text":"今天上午"},{"start":12832.143,"end":12841.354,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請農業部的陳部長還有薛牧師市長李市長新來的"},{"start":12851.87,"end":12865.434,"text":"市長,你建議進口的鮮乳都改名為長效乳,衛福部有沒有採納你的看法?"},{"start":12865.939,"end":12885.391,"text":"我想我們農業部的立場是一致的我們還是跟衛生部建議是用長效爐這個特別是90天的部分但是衛生部有收到我們政治的公文但是他們後面還要開會去討論因為他們考量的面向可能跟我們是不一樣的但最後的決定權是在衛生部"},{"start":12886.112,"end":12902.427,"text":"最後的紀律定權是在衛福部是不是那你看到了這是衛福部他們在6月5號預告的他預告的方向跟目前我們國內的糯農他們的想法是不是不一致"},{"start":12903.547,"end":12931.083,"text":"是有不一致的地方然後我們根據這個預告我們也再次跟衛務部溝通希望說他能夠採納我們的方案所以你有再去溝通了嗎?我們應該有吧,有再去溝通,對是畜牧師長他們去的?是所以你有再發文跟他說了嗎?你有表達清楚我們國內弱農業者的心聲嗎?對,我們再發了兩次我想我們跟弱農是站在一起的而且我們的立場不會改變"},{"start":12932.023,"end":12932.123,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":12944.9,"end":12969.489,"text":"共同的契約裡面,它是鮮乳是16元,對不對?14加2,2塊錢是運費,就是16塊。16塊嘛,對不對?那16塊的部分,我想請問部長,你長期以來都了解國內的牛乳的生產成本,那我們國內牛乳一瓶生產的成本是多少錢?"},{"start":12971.294,"end":12996.431,"text":"我想我們訂這個價格也是根據爐廠大家討論還有它的生產成本討論那現在看到零售端的價格它不能來比因為在超市端它有30%的上架費然後還有很多然後我們這次在跟爐廠談的時候我們把爐品送到學校去其實也有品牌的效益在裡面所以綜合的考量是用14塊去做訂而且是跟爐廠有做討論過的"},{"start":12998.297,"end":13020.049,"text":"可是我們看到了這是根據上下游他長期以來我們那個徐教授說國內的生乳的收購價格是26元那美國跟紐西蘭是15.76元跟14.5元那這樣子的價格的差異導致了"},{"start":13021.861,"end":13038.01,"text":"會不會我們的乳品沒有競爭力我想我們在推這樣的一個政策的過程中就是透過消費端去擴大我們的使用者的需求那學校未同學童加蓋其實它會帶動學童喝牛奶的習慣也會帶動家長"},{"start":13039.671,"end":13058.863,"text":"所以換句話說前端目前的生產成本可能比較高所以我們要想辦法讓我們的生產效率提高特別是把寡產牛去做一個淘汰所以在完整的弱農的方案裡面有一部分是把寡產牛做淘汰把乳量做計畫性的生產現在大概47.2萬噸每一年我們的目標是43萬噸如果43萬噸的話它的價格就會可以拉上去"},{"start":13064.397,"end":13085.93,"text":"但是你講的這是就是一連串的一個改變嘛但是如果那還沒看到結果嘛那就是寡產的生乳量比較少的那些牛如果沒有就是淘汰掉了以後那我們的牛乳的生產的成本"},{"start":13086.894,"end":13104.957,"text":"那也沒有降低呢?但也要仰賴著全就是世界的原物料的價格嘛,是不是?我跟委員說明齁,這次我們訂14塊是這一學期,然後我們會隨時去檢討,如果它的價格的確有比較偏低的情況之下,我們在下一期就會做調整。"},{"start":13106.014,"end":13131.446,"text":"對,因為你現在跟我們國內的生乳收購的價格的確比較起來就不一致嘛是不是就有很大的差異性嘛那這跟你強調的你要按照落農業的永續政策就是推廣國產的生乳這樣子的一個想法也相當的背道而馳嘛"},{"start":13132.166,"end":13156.162,"text":"我跟委員報告你這邊所提供的資料是每一公斤好像這邊14.5塊那我們是195毫升是14塊所以它之間不是用直接這樣做對比我當然知道所以我們會去我說這個是價格的差異性那但是未來這是成本價嘛那未來如果"},{"start":13157.165,"end":13185.943,"text":"好了等紐西蘭牛乳又進口了那會不會產生有混沖的現象我有看到啦你們有提供了混沖的方法學嘛是是不是但是要到明年才會才才可以成功嘛是不是明年下半年我想那今年呢整個方法學已經送到衛福部我們也希望他盡快的審完第二個部分就是我們有貼出百分之百國產鮮乳的標章特別是在什麼時候可以審完什麼時候可以審"},{"start":13186.483,"end":13206.272,"text":"這個要我們再跟衛福部溝通看看可不可以盡快啦但是相對的我們有貼標章就是百分之百的國產乳的部分希望做市場的鮮乳標章的部分我們會特別如果你標了這個東西我想就是就是一個一個必須要百分之百的對可是你如果混的時候你就要被罰"},{"start":13207.032,"end":13224.702,"text":"我們標了本地的鮮乳可是我們就沒有辦法來沒有檢驗的方法的時候這明年才會出來我們就沒有辦法在今年可以做相關的檢驗是不是我現在的做法是這樣子第一個我希望衛福部趕快盡速的通過"},{"start":13225.162,"end":13225.342,"text":"還有就是"},{"start":13251.321,"end":13267.935,"text":"關於氣候變遷我們知道現在葡萄的種植第一個他要什麼時候種因為氣候的影響加劇導致於他現在沒有辦法像過去一樣預估這個耕種的期間你有發現這個嗎"},{"start":13270.277,"end":13288.117,"text":"我們有發現其實氣候變遷對於整個的產區往北移甚至於適當的栽培期已經有變化了造成很大的困擾所以是不是應該要鼓勵農民變成溫室的種植我們一向是鼓勵所以我們過去有溫室的補助是四年兩千"},{"start":13294.053,"end":13300.579,"text":"所以你們是不是應該要協助我們這些葡萄農民來增加就是說來讓他們就是變成溫室因為如果不是溫室的時候他們對於這種氣候異常的情況可能會加劇"},{"start":13320.677,"end":13321.298,"text":"還有一個題目就是我們現在"},{"start":13343.118,"end":13367.016,"text":"每年除魚的量是62萬公噸但是如果我們以標準的除魚的方式我們沒有辦法達到減碳現在如果有就是說我們是不是農業部應該要協助這些除魚的處理廠商尤其是我們有一些像黑水蟒這樣子的生物來協助我們來"},{"start":13372.179,"end":13373.18,"text":"在方法學部分"},{"start":13381.806,"end":13382.767,"text":"部長可不可以協助?"},{"start":13402.712,"end":13427.946,"text":"對,因為台灣的廚餘就是這麼多當然我們不希望它一直變多我們希望減少但是事實上的情況就是這樣子那如果能夠達到檢探的目標的這樣子的情況下我希望我們應該要共同來協作好不好我們會努力來做特別是黑水盲它變成是一個蛋白質的主要來源那個是一個非常好的蛋白質來源"},{"start":13428.766,"end":13429.487,"text":"現在我們休息 下午2點30分繼續開會"},{"start":21990.046,"end":21991.347,"text":"主席麻煩請我們陳部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":22019.879,"end":22020.087,"text":"委員好"},{"start":22020.506,"end":22048.299,"text":"部長,早上很多委員其實也都關心這次颱風的一個災損造成很多地方的一個農損的狀況那包括本席的選區北海岸其實這一次這個大雨造成整個這個角白損以及相關的一個農田苗田也都已經有造成狀況那我想你也聽到很多的心聲都希望說能夠讓這個趕快公告我們的這個農損的一個申請補助的辦法對不對"},{"start":22050.32,"end":22079.823,"text":"什麼時候會來做來說明一下我跟委員報告我們大概分兩個階段去處理第一個階段就是說針對我們農業部可以主動公告的部分我們先處理那另外這個部分我想我們今天早上主動公告可以什麼時候出來我跟委員說明我們今天早上已經開了專家會議那針對新北市特別是在金山萬里山芝的部分的盆花的部分盆花的部分基本上我們已經公告為現金"},{"start":22080.783,"end":22080.963,"text":"農業部部長"},{"start":22100.694,"end":22110.262,"text":"好那因為現在我們看到是說有些反應是農損通報機制不管是用作為所謂的APP這個農民反應上手也不一定那麼的"},{"start":22111.71,"end":22114.152,"text":"第一個部分就是"},{"start":22136.647,"end":22155.164,"text":"我們也考慮到相公所因為這次楷米跟這次的山頭鵝本身那個量比較大所以我們在最新的預告的部分我們有預告修天然災害救助辦法可以去做適當的展延而不是說限定在10天之內讓申報的人人流可以疏散可是聽說是一個月嘛是不是"},{"start":22155.919,"end":22181.687,"text":"沒有,申報是10天,但是我們可以延長,而且是變成工作天。是,所以延長到多少的時間?沒有,本來是10天的日曆天,現在延長變成工作天,然後必要的時候還可以再延5天,5個工作日。那這樣的話可以稀釋公所這邊的人力,短時間的人力的壓力。那第二個部分就是,天然災害的相片是一個免線竿的時候的一個補助的作為。"},{"start":22182.427,"end":22211.125,"text":"那我們後續也會提供一些後台的資訊比如說他有產銷履歷就很明確知道種什麼作物的時候他連照片都不用那第三個部分就是照片的時候如果在山區的時候沒有影像你先照了回家還是可以上傳所以我們現在發現說整個的盲點是在公所本身的負荷量太大所以我們有很多的作為是希望說就是我們希望主管機關能夠看到第一線的工作同仁的辛苦"},{"start":22211.485,"end":22234.539,"text":"那尤其是像照片拍完之後地方政府還要不要再去做現場會刊?不用不用齁?是好這個這個確定不用部長今天回答因為我們之前還反映有一些地方政府還回復說這個是在接收通報之後還有現場會刊免現刊的品項你只要有照片證明你種這個作物的時候就不用再看了"},{"start":22236.32,"end":22242.683,"text":"部長我們就一起努力讓這個災損可以趕快來去移工部長那另外我在上個禮拜一的時候也關心這個灌水牛的事件那時候是請我們的次長來回答我說整個13處的這個屠宰場的"},{"start":22257.051,"end":22281.419,"text":"的狀況現在有沒有去做全面的一個釐清我想我們所瞭解的就是說現在目前宰牛的場數有13場那有14個屠宰縣的部分那從104年開始其實因為屠宰大概分為幾個區域一個是四流區那一個是有關於製葷的然後剝皮的還有出貨的我們都有監控器去做監控那麼晚進來你對我們的時間那麼的那麼的盯緊就對了"},{"start":22286.663,"end":22297.121,"text":"所以部長我只確認一下他這一次的這個灌水牛的屠宰場是不是到最後開罰只有10多萬"},{"start":22298.086,"end":22298.426,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":22318.573,"end":22347.286,"text":"因為灌水是絕對不能到的部分當然而且他可能不是第一次也不是第一支對不對部長我們該修法本期也會提出相關的修法但是我更希望是說農業部要拿出態度來在這種事情上面不要讓那種非法的手段持續不斷發生了解謝謝好謝謝洪孟凱委員部長請回座還好沒有插詞很多只有插詞兩分鐘而已"},{"start":22354.305,"end":22354.926,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請陳部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":22384.677,"end":22411.203,"text":"部長辛苦 因為上個禮拜六部長也有跟院長一起到我們屏東來勘栽我們屏東的情形這麼嚴重了 了解部長我想所有的委員也都在關心這次農損的一個處理的一個機制那目前截至目前為止我們屏東縣的農損超過2億多 是全台最多那面積大概有將近1900公頃 有20多種的住屋受損"},{"start":22412.183,"end":22439.898,"text":"那沿海的養殖戶的部分也有4000多萬的損失那續產部分也有大概600萬的損失那就本席瞭解我們屏東縣政府在10月6號已經把相關的資訊這個已經有發文到我們部裡面那請教部長什麼時候可以來核定我想跟委員說明就是屏東縣政府大概是昨天傍晚的時候文就是請求就是選民家免簽竿的部分已經送上來了"},{"start":22441.238,"end":22461.663,"text":"今天早上我們部裡面由我們的次長召開專家會議,因為包括全品向免限刊一定要有專家會議去做一個確認那今天早上的會議的結果,針對屏東縣的部分,我講的是農糧的事先處理,農糧的部分是全縣全品向免限刊,針對西瓜木瓜香蕉番石榴紅果"},{"start":22462.683,"end":22463.764,"text":"我想跟委員說明"},{"start":22487.103,"end":22510.434,"text":"他在不同的產季,像葉菜類有沒有,一定不會在那邊蓋米台風受損的,但是他復耕了以後就種,如果再遇到颱風的話,這個是可以再救助的。那果樹類的話在同一個產期,以現在的規定的話是不能重複的。那這個部分我想我們後續也會再做一些精進的討論,因為以現在的規定是不能重複的部分。"},{"start":22511.369,"end":22537.591,"text":"部長,不過就是因為農民也很辛苦,氣氛好不容易已經重新整理過這個園子一次,這間就這樣落下,也是全部都開落下,可不可以再放寬?不,我想我們一定是會從農民的角度來協助他,但是相關的規定在那邊的時候,我們不能預約這個規定,所以我說後續我們會去檢討,特別是多年生的果樹之類的話,"},{"start":22539.732,"end":22552.138,"text":"從原來的那個跨年度有沒有變成同一個產區然後看看有沒有什麼樣的階段是可以做切割的我們會來精進做這樣的一個作為但是並沒有辦法適應在這一次的一個天災"},{"start":22553.591,"end":22573.128,"text":"部長就像您那天在現場也看到像蓮霧這些果樹會有一個延遲性的災害問題現在看起來好歹好歹可能過幾個月就沒有辦法去修正所以我們這一次蓮霧的部分就是它是免限刊的只要它提出蓮霧的種植的證明它就可以得到天然災害救助"},{"start":22574.38,"end":22587.152,"text":"部長另外那我這邊也要求我們的水保署針對我們治山繁紅的部分還有我們農水署針對這個灌溉溝渠的部分也要強化尤其我們秉農館非常需要這些的一些基礎設施是不是兩個訴訟可以這樣答應我想我們其實在討論這個"},{"start":22591.196,"end":22592.057,"text":"我想最後時間針對我們上一次本席"},{"start":22618.117,"end":22643.796,"text":"執行我們黑鮪魚這個政策的部分我覺得漁業署是呼籠部長也呼籠我們的漁民也沒有一個正面的一個答覆給我們知道到底要怎麼做處理那請會後幾個書面我們已經跟漁民討論而且公告已經在執行了這個會後再提供資料給你明年的配合部分也給本席一份資料好不好好我會提供資料給那個委員好謝謝徐副委員精準有效的質詢來部長請回座"},{"start":22652.237,"end":22666.049,"text":"賴玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席有請農業部的部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":22675.729,"end":22701.272,"text":"部長好 要請教部長一下台灣開放東南亞移工來台灣改善就是來台灣工作為了改善原生家庭現在目前就是有70幾萬移工已經投入台灣的勞動市場但由於工資普遍就是基本薪沒有額外加班收入的話"},{"start":22702.273,"end":22702.473,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":22718.8,"end":22719.22,"text":"請教一下部長,你知道這個問題嗎?"},{"start":22737.27,"end":22757.56,"text":"我跟委員說明就是由於我們國內的農業有一部分的缺工必須仰賴外籍移工來協助那相對的目前是合定的一萬兩千人那現在大概實際的已經有一萬一千多人了然後勞動部也因為我們的需求增加也增加了八千人達到兩萬人"},{"start":22759.742,"end":22779.8,"text":"先是農業的部分對我只處理農業的部分所以農業的部分我們可以合配的比例大概是2萬人那現在已經有1萬1千人那這1萬1千人一定會符合勞動基準法的相關的一個規定那在實際的過程中變成說他分配到其他的農場的時候那農場主有時候會體恤他"},{"start":22782.807,"end":22782.847,"text":"農業部部長"},{"start":22801.01,"end":22815.146,"text":"知道說有多少人在做勞動力的這個部分還有多少我們的農民依賴我們這一群就是非法的移工我們的農委會這邊有沒有想說這8萬人他們是不是有這個機會有的方法"},{"start":22821.853,"end":22844.378,"text":"讓他們就是變成是合法的途徑因為很多農民請他們十幾年了他們沒有做非法其他的工作但是他們就是不合法的在我們的農業裡面的工作這樣子的話有沒有什麼措施來去考量說讓他們是可以合法化"},{"start":22845.177,"end":22872.627,"text":"我跟委員說明齁,您剛剛講的8萬多人是整體的外籍的移工齁施連移工,沒有包含農業施連的移工,然後跑到農業領域去從事農業的一個工作嘛這個我們也的確有發現到有這樣的一個現象但是我們並沒有實際的一個統計數據說有,因為當你去訪視的時候有正常引進的你可以調查得到"},{"start":22872.927,"end":22872.987,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":22903.527,"end":22930.621,"text":"臺灣的農產業的保障但是對我們要來做農業的移工是沒有很大的保障所以我們希望就是雙方面的讓我們兩邊都有有幫助我們希望說我們的農委會這邊不管是合法的非法的看要有什麼措施對他們有幫助也對我們的農民有幫助"},{"start":22932.157,"end":22932.397,"text":"農業部部長"},{"start":22960.977,"end":22962.418,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":22990.469,"end":23010.023,"text":"謝謝部長 部長我知道這幾年 其實農業部是有依據生態生物多樣性的大會來通過的2030年的23項目標來去做一些相關的策略和行動那我也看到永續發展委員會其實在接觸了第三項設置要點其實就有講到生態多樣性的一些保育還有健康風險等等等等"},{"start":23012.044,"end":23027.716,"text":"其實大家講的一個重點就是要follow這個昆明蒙特羅生物多樣性的框架那其中呢他其實裡面有講到一個很重要跟減少對生物多樣性的威脅就是要來受邪物種的管理行動也即外來種的管理"},{"start":23029.209,"end":23056.671,"text":"那我想要了解就是說在我們現在其實的數據我們其實有發現我們在講要保護生態多樣性要保護我們的野生動物可是根據林業署的資料我們的好像我的頭很暗好謝謝對不起我這邊也看不到好那可以可以嗎現在可以嗎我這邊看不到那我們時間可以先暫停一下嗎看不到"},{"start":23059.443,"end":23085.786,"text":"是不是機器的問題 請這個工作人員排除一下電腦那邊也檢查一下是接觸不良還是"},{"start":23092.321,"end":23111.168,"text":"可能電腦需要休息一下可以嗎再看一下"},{"start":23144.705,"end":23165.814,"text":"這一個畫面還是流浪犬的這是上一個委員質詢的嗎這是我的這是我的對部長那邊看得到嗎還是我這個先建議好了可以嗎那個還是"},{"start":23171.045,"end":23171.465,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":23197.529,"end":23197.709,"text":"主席"},{"start":23225.576,"end":23228.019,"text":"陳副長你看這邊先看這邊螢幕好了齁這邊有幾個好了嗎好我們訓導訓導繼續"},{"start":23235.37,"end":23251.059,"text":"就是我們講生態多樣性的一個重要性但是我們可以看到被犬貓攻擊的一個數造成野生動物死亡的數字也是持續的在增加那同時我也發現就是在審計部的一個112年總決算報告裡面有提到說109年到112年即4年花費了3.5億來辦理這個遊蕩犬管理經濟措施計畫但看到這個數字"},{"start":23259.304,"end":23274.777,"text":"我們數字其實一直在增加完全沒有減少所以我想要知道為什麼我們花了那麼多錢要保護野生動物可是我們遊蕩權卻沒有減少這原因是什麼我跟委員說明齁現在我們得到的資訊大概就成林你這邊講的齁大概現在目前的流量大概16萬隻左右"},{"start":23275.737,"end":23301.228,"text":"對它看起來是有在增加可是我們如果從另外一個角度講如果說我們沒有一個作為的話以流浪犬它自然的繁殖的那個繁殖率對所以我想知道我們一定有才什麼作為嗎不然你花3.5億花滿錢才會有一些就是說所以我們現在齁我們現在針對流浪犬的部分齁遊蕩犬的部分齁我們大概是用熱區的概念以每一個鄉鎮為一個熱區然後我們投入了一些經費去盤查裡面的熱區的"},{"start":23304.549,"end":23305.83,"text":"這個樂趣的計畫是從什麼時候開始的?應該是110年開始"},{"start":23318.766,"end":23336.26,"text":"一百一十年開始那一個重要的是流浪犬會越來越多其實一個非常重要就是飼主的責任所以我們在所謂的動物保護法裡面我們會去強化飼主的責任我們希望說不要去餵食不要去餵食嗎好我想這非常重要就是隨意餵食因為根據很多的數據其實我發現"},{"start":23338.802,"end":23365.399,"text":"有4成的犬隻是放養的喔4組把牠餵完之後把牠放養在街上甚至我們在新聞報導或是網路上面我們可以看到這150次的分享其實我們對於這樣子的行為其實就是餵食嘛大家可以看見它其實就是在一個類似鄉村農村的地方那甚至在我們左邊這張圖它是在生態熱區也是食物的熱區可是它也設置了一個流浪犬貓的餵食據點"},{"start":23366.98,"end":23388.22,"text":"那這個部分的話,你剛剛有講到餵食,所以我們現在會採取相關的行動嗎?我們會有更積極的行動來禁止餵食嗎?我想,我剛才說的就是說,我們會以鄉鎮為單位的這些熱區開始去執行,然後針對熱區的部分,我們會去限制它的一個餵食,然後加強一個取締。禁止餵食還是限制餵食?這限制餵食到底是什麼意思啊?"},{"start":23388.806,"end":23405.455,"text":"我們基本上我們到目前為止沒有一個法院說是強制性的禁止餵食啊那是我們要來修法嗎我們在修法的過程中因為餵食這個東西可能要再經過更多的社會溝通因為有一些動保團體本身他覺得說"},{"start":23408.078,"end":23422.217,"text":"但是我想回到生態多樣性這個最主要的目標我覺得我們對於生態樂區要有一些相關的更積極的作為我們是不是可以從生態樂區開始來禁止相關的餵食或取締呢?"},{"start":23423.098,"end":23424.118,"text":"對,我們會來調查,我們大概兩年調查一次"},{"start":23451.265,"end":23474.245,"text":"這個抱歉我再做一句話而已齁我剛也等了蠻久等機器就是說我想就是在11月10號因為我覺得對於每一個寵物其實當然都非常的重要他都應該要適得其所有他的家那11月10號其實有一個相關的為野生動物而走的一個活動也有相關的展覽那到時候是不是方便邀請部長跟我一起來參與呢我講如果說時間區一個人的話我也願意來參與這樣的一個活動"},{"start":23476.587,"end":23477.047,"text":"主席有請部長農業部陳部長"},{"start":23505.936,"end":23521.014,"text":"委員吼,部長吼,你最近有看到我們的蔡前總統去拜訪賴總統,然後跟賴總統一起收養的流浪犬斑斑互動嗎?有看到他們互動的新聞嗎?"},{"start":23522.042,"end":23551.278,"text":"我有看到那個FB上面有看到他們的一個很簡單的問題是跟剛剛我們前面站來的委員講的一樣是遊蕩犬的問題那我看到農業部的報告說農業部正在建立系統性與科學化的遊蕩犬管理經濟措施來控制犬貓族群那我想請問部長2015到2022年遊蕩犬的數量是大概增加多少"},{"start":23552.54,"end":23579.855,"text":"油蕩犬的數量我知道目前大概是16萬隻然後114萬多隻這樣子2015年是12.842022年是15.97萬所以7年漲了增加了1.24倍其實幅度算是相當的大對不對那我想請問這算是系統化跟科學化管理精進的結果嗎的良好結果嗎"},{"start":23581.487,"end":23609.077,"text":"我跟委員說明就是當初在瞬間的那個成長的過程剛好我們是有個政策是就是立法院決議的就是零撲殺所以在零撲殺的過程中瞬間它會去爆量所以後續的話它的增長的幅度就是包括我們為了零撲殺的一些強制新的作為下去的時候它後面的增長的幅度就會比較慢這個我想可以跟委員說當然啦我覺得原因找出來很重要但解決是更重要對不對"},{"start":23610.177,"end":23624.244,"text":"那我想問一下部長,依照你們的所謂的系統性跟科學化的管理經濟措施,因為我們馬上兩年做一次的調查嘛,下一次就是今年嘛,你有把握今年2024年遊蕩權數量比2022年少嗎?"},{"start":23629.86,"end":23651.954,"text":"我不敢確認說它一定會減少但是它如果要增長增長的幅度也會比前一年前一期的增長幅度變少因為流蕩犬如果說你沒有處理沒有絕育的時候它的繁殖倍率繁殖倍率大概兩倍到三倍左右所以希望部長跟農業部一起努力但是我要特別講為什麼今天不管剛剛前面我們張委員我們都在談這個問題你知道"},{"start":23655.456,"end":23672.225,"text":"遊蕩犬數量增加不管是對用路人還是野生動物都造成很多的危險剛剛前面有談到野生動物那我特別講那你知道2017年到2023年因為撞動物而受傷的人數是從多少到多少你知道嗎"},{"start":23673.786,"end":23691.397,"text":"我大概了解就是說受到犬攻擊大概我講的是那個行車的時候入殺是14%整個死亡的比例然後我講的是就是有人撞到就入殺的部分大概是14%"},{"start":23692.978,"end":23709.896,"text":"我是講的是人我講的不是動物啦我講的是人啊那從1888人增加到2948人漲幅是1.56倍那同期死亡的人數也從4人增加到11人成長2.75倍你覺得這個數字有沒有很驚人啊"},{"start":23710.799,"end":23731.201,"text":"我聽起來我覺得那個比例我們應該要更重視對啊所以我就講今天不管是這個那個遊蕩犬的問題或是那個遊蕩的一些動物的問題他已經不只是我們今天單單講說動物剛剛前面講野生動物受到了那個一些影響事實上連我們的用路安全都受到影響啊所以此"},{"start":23731.561,"end":23731.581,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":23757.276,"end":23780.767,"text":"下一位質詢 請 廖瑋祥 廖瑋祥 廖瑋祥不在 高金素美 高金素美 高金素美不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳不在 下一位質詢 請武力華委員謝謝主席 有請部長 請農業部陳部長"},{"start":23789.842,"end":23814.595,"text":"部長好今天來這裡想要跟您關心一下高山的農業首先請看一張圖片這張圖片是1953年也就是國民政府遷台初期的時候的一個南部山區的部落我們可以看得到他在旁邊的一個土地能工使用的一個情形"},{"start":23815.935,"end":23834.17,"text":"再往更早看的話一百多年前這是日治時期的照片一樣是南部山區可以看到他的家屋還有附近的這些土地的一個農耕利用方式那彩色的這個圖片呢其實就是菲律賓很有名的一個世界遺產伊富高"},{"start":23836.092,"end":23839.235,"text":"那這個伊富高其實我們雖然很羨慕他但是他也經歷過跟我們目前一樣的處境只是因為當時他們為了一個反水庫的運動那因此菲律賓政府在那個地方把他們劃了"},{"start":23852.369,"end":23866.588,"text":"自治區也就是說他們可以用自己的方式來經營他們的土地所以讓我們有機會今天看到這樣的樣貌那怎麼說因為我們自己現在也正在經歷這樣的一個過程"},{"start":23868.59,"end":23891.04,"text":"我們過去一百多年前幾十年前原本原住民長期以來所保留的一個傳統能耕方式到了國民政府來之後因為那時候的土地還沒有什麼法規您可以看得到當時的蔣總統在我們的中部的地區種起了柑橘高麗菜或者是像是這些茶葉"},{"start":23892.36,"end":23911.692,"text":"我們可以看到這一些山林呢變成了這樣的一個所謂高經濟作物的殖民的農業不再是我們在地的土地所需要的植物那我們來看一下我們覺得很欣喜的就是例如在中部這個是鎮西堡的部落"},{"start":23912.432,"end":23919.881,"text":"他們有一些人啊他們很努力的在這個樹林竹林之間繼續的來沿用過去傳統的混林的農耕法開出一些梯田然後呢旁邊都還有樹木"},{"start":23927.409,"end":23927.689,"text":"沙啃 燒啃"},{"start":23946.974,"end":23953.3,"text":"他們怎麼做呢就是設立一些防火線然後呢留下一些樹因為為了要讓老鷹等動物棲息可以幫忙吃老鼠這些害蟲然後呢是先除草再來呢進行放火因為這些灰燼是很重要的養分那我們看到這些方式齁我就是覺得說欸國外學者說這個叫傳統農業啊"},{"start":23972.657,"end":23993.815,"text":"什麼叫傳統農業在地的知識透過幾千年的觀察實驗錯誤中適應最終獲得資源管理的一個最好的方法那外國學者都說可以防極端氣候可以生態保護生物多樣性永續發展增加碳匯蟲害防治部長您覺得好不好"},{"start":23995.163,"end":24019.586,"text":"我要跟委員說明兩件事情第一件事情就是其實過往我們在剝地農業或高山農業我個人覺得說一個很不好的現象就是我們用平地的栽培技術直接導入到高山地區包括高度的農藥高度的肥料的使用但是相對的我們這幾年來特別是我在這兩三年來我一直因為我對原住民的"},{"start":24020.266,"end":24028.07,"text":"謝謝部長很感謝您做這樣肯定的一個回覆我相信在觀看的這些族人會很開心但是我還是要跟您談困境剛才您談到雖然我們已經開始輔導可是無法在自己的土地用自己的方式耕種是我們的痛"},{"start":24049.62,"end":24070.662,"text":"因為1976年是很可怕的一年因為有了非都土地使用管制規則一夕之間包括那些礦坑區域的房子原保地上的房子都非法了然後呢1976年三坡保育條例有了一夕之間所有的耕作方式都變非法了森林法"},{"start":24071.403,"end":24087.044,"text":"還有我們的水保法還有不得燒墾空污法不得使用機具等等甚至是我們後來推的零下經濟好像也不符合我們想要的那些項目雖然我們很努力我想要說的是說部長"},{"start":24087.825,"end":24104.453,"text":"我現在因為時間有限我只希望您因為國土計劃法的第23條有開出一個空間要尊重原住民族的土地使用管制規則可以自己定我希望到時候農業部可以支持"},{"start":24105.313,"end":24108.895,"text":"我希望到時候大家各部會一同的來支持那部長可以嗎?"},{"start":24127.483,"end":24142.598,"text":"我想我一定會從我的角度去 從農業的角度去支持這樣子能夠在適度的這個非極端的那個所謂的進縣區進墾區的部分以外我們可以有一部分可以放寬的部分 我想我們會去盤點"},{"start":24143.379,"end":24165.315,"text":"那如果有問題我可能也會召開協調會確保這一些規範那希望部長來支持那我最後就是說我們原住民說山林是家土地是血土地非常重要雖然大家現在吵得沸沸揚揚的進發補償對於限制給予補償我們很感謝但是荒廢土地對我們來講更是對祖先的不敬"},{"start":24166.155,"end":24187.906,"text":"所以我希望我們的法律能夠還給原住民有機會好好的運用我們的傳統知識來做我們的耕地我覺得這個才是對土地最尊重的一種方式好不好部長我想我們後續會鼓勵原民來加入我們的所謂的獎益照領的方式6年60萬他其實比建法補償"},{"start":24188.706,"end":24191.849,"text":"吳立法委員 部長請回座下一位質詢請陳冠廷委員農業部陳部長"},{"start":24223.938,"end":24242.466,"text":"今天只有一題,這是針對嘉義山區土地使用的編定,特別是針對林班地的問題那現在,如果我們看一下那個圖片,大概是可以知道說這是我們嘉義石桌地區的土地使用編定的現況那大部分都是在國保1的範圍"},{"start":24243.106,"end":24270.927,"text":"那如果你看圖面的話那仔細看的話會是存在並種建築跟佔準待地相鄰的情況我們有這個圖片嗎我們沒有這個圖片沒關係那不管如何都是國保一的範圍一樣都是拿來做建築的使用但是佔準待地上面的建築使用還是要受到林業用地管制那林班地的成熟人的居住權利根本沒有辦法獲得有效的保障那對於山區的居民來說不管是地級上是林地或者是農地"},{"start":24272.108,"end":24288.52,"text":"防止在那邊但是管理的強度是完全不同三區國有林班定未解編的之前那是受於林業法令的限制所以居民大家都用暫准暫准待遇的方式來去進行使用但是這些地區已經有寄存聚落"},{"start":24289.381,"end":24312.71,"text":"也有這個產業事務實施但是政府還是用林班地的管理法令進行管制那我們是覺得這是很不合理的所以為了解決這項問題加一縣政府在擬定縣級的國土計劃的時候打算使用土地使用管制來去管理佔主帶地但是內政部國土計劃審議是把它擱置的那現在加一縣政府有另外一個方案這個部分想要請教部長"},{"start":24313.65,"end":24334.926,"text":"現政府是認為說已經沒有林業發展需求的林班地應該可以透過鄉村地區整體規劃直接解除林班地的管制例如如果說鄉村地區如果化設為農業發展地區第4類的居住使用就應該適同解除林班地之管制我想請問農業部對此有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":24336.007,"end":24344.186,"text":"基本上在那個部分大概都已經形成的聚落了齁其實我們農業部本身的立場就是說現與現在的地木的關係我們"},{"start":24345.888,"end":24366.839,"text":"我們的態度是如果說地方政府能夠經過通案檢討以後把它變成鄉村區以後然後把它化成非公用非公用的部分那後續的部分它就可以移給國產署以後就可以開始做變更的部分我覺得這是現在最快而且可以解決的一個途徑"},{"start":24368.018,"end":24395.007,"text":"然後如果說國土計畫實施以後那國土計畫如果在那個區域把它劃成那個城鄉發展區或者是應該是農事的部分那相對的也可以做一部分的解決啦但是現在其實就可以解決現在就是說如果地方政府把它劃成鄉村區的話把它變成一個我們變成非公用那非公用就移撥到國產組區的時候那就可以開始處理這個這個這個聚落的問題"},{"start":24396.761,"end":24423.723,"text":"所以簡單來說就是可以透過鄉村地區的整體規劃對相規的部分可以去處理相規可以去解決可以去處理但是地方站我要劃出來以後謝謝謝謝部長那我的問題到此結束謝謝非常謝謝我們這個陳冠廷委員非常有效率的質詢部長請回座習信不在林柱銀不在"},{"start":24426.247,"end":24429.949,"text":"登記發言委員．除不在場之外．區域均已發言完畢．我們詢答結束有委員．劉建國．索敵宿命之群．我們列入紀錄刊登空報"},{"start":24450.187,"end":24462.511,"text":"有關書面質詢．及未及答覆部分．請相關單位一周內以書面答覆．並複製本會．今天本日所列議程處理完畢．謝謝大家現在上會"},{"start":24493.055,"end":24493.095,"text":"主席"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","委員發言時間":"08:30:00 - 15:19:00"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}